From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #50 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, January 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 050 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 pwatson@utdallas.edu wrote: > My thoughts about the current Clinton sex scandal. > > > > "I can say that the president was quite firm about me making that > > statement," McCurry said. > > > > The presidential spokesman tried to portray a White House going about > > its work in a normal fashion despite the sensational charges. He said > > that the president's outrage over the charges quickly faded as he turned > > to discussions with national security advisers about Iraq. > Time for a war^^^^ Run, do not walk, to the nearest theatre showing "Wag the Dog" for a couple of hours ROTFLYAO. Even the Blue Wolf will enjoy that one. - ----- Harry Barnett - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:59:30 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 pwatson@utdallas.edu wrote: > My thoughts about the current Clinton sex scandal. > > > > "I can say that the president was quite firm about me making that > > statement," McCurry said. > > > > The presidential spokesman tried to portray a White House going about > > its work in a normal fashion despite the sensational charges. He said > > that the president's outrage over the charges quickly faded as he turned > > to discussions with national security advisers about Iraq. > Time for a war^^^^ Run, do not walk, to the nearest theatre showing "Wag the Dog" for a couple of hours ROTFLYAO. Even the Blue Wolf will enjoy that one. - ----- Harry Barnett - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:52:16 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: WASH.WEEKLY-Oklahoma Grand Jury Expected To Hand Down Indictments]] (fwd) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --1915762710-1369479000-885433936=:21051 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-ID: - --1915762710-1369479000-885433936=:21051 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Content-Description: Return-Path: Received: from mail.cdsnet.net (mail.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.5]) by wakko.efn.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26378 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:38:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from hp-customer (d01a819d.dip.cdsnet.net [208.26.129.157]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA27519; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:28:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <34C3B5F7.107B86C2@cdsnet.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:22:15 -0800 From: wolfeyes Reply-To: wolfeyes@cdsnet.net Organization: CWA X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bilybolegs@aol.com" Subject: [Fwd: WASH.WEEKLY-Oklahoma Grand Jury Expected To Hand Down Indictments] X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C8B1CF6E1C513D84E01C7557" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C8B1CF6E1C513D84E01C7557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------C8B1CF6E1C513D84E01C7557 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by mail.cdsnet.net (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA09815 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:16:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from flash.net (houasc4-203.flash.net [209.30.64.203]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA17362; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:15:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <34C3A8FF.3BB45BB@flash.net> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:26:55 -0600 From: Texas Net Reply-To: copyplus@copyplus.net Organization: Texas Net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AA Texas Web Subject: WASH.WEEKLY-Oklahoma Grand Jury Expected To Hand Down Indictments References: <244482de.34c3348c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BOB WORN wrote: > Subject: Oklahoma Grand Jury Expected To Hand Down Indictments > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:49:13 -0600 > From: Washington Weekly > > OKLAHOMA GRAND JURY EXPECTED TO HAND DOWN INDICTMENTS > Strassmeir, Mahon, and Ward Possible Targets > > By Wesley Phelan > > During an FBI debriefing two days after the bombing of the > Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, ATF informant Carol > Howe identified Andreas Strassmeir, Dennis Mahon, and Peter Ward > as participants in the bombing plot. She had warned ATF agent > Angela Finley of the plot in advance of the bombing. Oklahoma > state Rep. Charles Key has worked to impanel a grand jury to hear > evidence of a wider plot behind the bombing as well as advance > government knowledge of this plot. Rep. Key was interviewed by > the Washington Weekly last week: > > QUESTION: I have read that you encountered much opposition from > prominent people in Oklahoma City when you were trying to get the > grand jury impaneled. Is that true? > > KEY: That is correct. Oklahoma is one of two states that has in > its constitution the right of the people to have a county grand > jury impaneled by simply circulating a petition. New Mexico is > the other state. But it happens frequently in Oklahoma. In any > year you will have quite a number of grand juries around the > state impaneled. We did the same thing and immediately an > attempt was made to stop us--and temporarily it was successful-- > by a local judge and it forced us to have to appeal that and > incur a time and money expense, which we did. Also, just prior > to filing for that grand jury we had extreme opposition from the > Governor of Oklahoma, Frank Keating, who is a former special > agent of the FBI, former U.S. Attorney, former Assistant > Secretary of the Treasury where he supervised the ATF and other > agencies. He was very much in opposition to us and the Wilburns > and many others who spoke out. In addition to that, direct > opposition during the last two-and-a-half years has also come > from the Attorney General of the state, Drew Edmonson, the local > District Attorney, Bob Macy, and Judge Dan Owens, who is a local > state District Judge. > > QUESTION: This was a petition drive, is that correct, and you had > to get 10,000 signatures? > > KEY: We had to get 5,000 and we turned in 13,500, which was what > we were able to get in a short period of time with extreme > opposition. Part of the opposition that we had during that > specific time, and another part of the opposition we have > incurred, is the Attorney General and his office subpoenaing me > and my secretary and a friend of mine who became the petition > drive coordinator before a multi-county state grand jury to "see > if we had complied with all state laws regarding fund raising." > I had recently started a fund raising effort and they implied > that I had violated some laws involving charitable solicitations. > > QUESTION: What subpoena power does the current county grand jury > have? > > KEY: It has full subpoena power, period. > > QUESTION: Who is acting as the prosecutor to guide the grand > jury and call in witnesses? > > KEY: The law in the state of Oklahoma states that the local > District Attorney's Office will act as the legal advisor to the > grand jury. > > QUESTION: Are these the same people who opposed the grand jury > to begin with? > > KEY: Yes, they are some of the same people. > > QUESTION: Has that presented a problem to you? > > KEY: Somewhat, but the politics and the public's perception of > this has helped us because all these same politicians are up for > reelection this year. The popularity of this was very > significant in central Oklahoma and even all over the state from > what polls are showing since that time, so they have since ceased > their blatant attacks on us. We had intended to have District > Attorney Macy removed from being the legal advisor to the grand > jury all along as we went through the court battle. But then as > we got to the point where we were going to be able to circulate > the petition and have the grand jury impaneled, we had done > enough research that we realized that Oklahoma law says that in > such an event the Attorney General becomes the one who decides > who will become the special prosecutor. So, the Attorney General > would have been the person who would have been in control of this > thing, or having a certain amount of control. And then we also > in that period of time--last year--discovered yet another law, > rather obscure and seldom used if ever used, that gives the > Governor of the State of Oklahoma rights and powers in certain > situations to appoint what's called in law a Special Attorney and > which could have thrown it into his court. So we had three people > to consider there and decided that Macy was the lesser of the > three evils that had opposed us and so that's why we decided to > leave it like it was and not take it any further. > > QUESTION: How many witnesses, roughly, have appeared before the > grand jury? > > KEY: I would say about 70 at this point. > > QUESTION: How have these witnesses been chosen? Are they mostly > eyewitnesses to what happened the day of the bombing, or would > that include others also? > > KEY: Yes, both. And they came largely from a list we provided > to the grand jury. > > QUESTION: "We" being you and the Wilburns? > > KEY: Yes. > > QUESTION: I read that J. D. Cash originally refused to testify, > or put up some resistance, but that he has since come forward and > testified. What persuaded him to change his mind? > > KEY: Well, the first part of that--and I've gotten a real lesson > in what you can believe when you read a newspaper article--J. D. > never refused to testify, never refused to testify. He was > covering the Nichols trial in Denver. The primary source of that > information and the inaccuracy of it was because J. D. responded > to the subpoena--which said you must bring and turn over all of > your tapes, transcripts, videos, interviews, you name it, it's > one of those all-inclusive kinds of legal documents--and as a > reporter he was not going to do that. > > QUESTION: It was a subpoena duces tecum? > > KEY: Yes. > > QUESTION: Have others refused to come before the grand jury? > > KEY: No. I don't know of anyone who has refused. > > QUESTION: Do you have any idea when the grand jury will finish > its work? Does it have a time limit? > > KEY: Just yesterday one of the assistant attorneys working with > the grand jury said that they have a schedule set up through > March. They typically have done that all along, set about a > two-month schedule at a time as they see their work load, so I > think there's no doubt they will go through the end of March. I > think there's a good chance they will go even another three > months beyond that. Everyone has only estimates on this. > > QUESTION: The time limit then is when the work is completed? > > KEY: Yes. And they could even go another twelve months beyond > the first twelve, and ultimately I think there's nothing in the > law that precludes them from getting, technically, an unlimited > extension. No one expects that, of course. > > QUESTION: Can this grand jury hand down indictments? > > KEY: Yes it can. > > QUESTION: To which court would the indictments go? > > KEY: To a state court at the county level. > > QUESTION: Do you expect indictments to be handed down? > > KEY: I do, yes. I really do. I think Michael Fortier is at the > top of that list when you look at people other than McVeigh and > Nichols. Strassmeir is probably number two. Mahon would > probably fall in there next. And then you have a series of > people like Peter Ward and the Kehoe brothers (1) and a few > others who are part of or related to this Midwest banking group. > There could even be some Middle Eastern people in there. > > QUESTION: Who would act as prosecutor if indictments were handed > down? > > KEY: It would be the local District Attorney. > > QUESTION: Have you experienced any impediments being thrown in > the way of the grand jury by federal officials? > > KEY: Let me think that through for a second . . . well, in the > way of the grand jury the only thing I can really point to is we > get mixed signals. And that seems to be becoming the norm with > the feds in a lot of ways, and not just in this case, but in a > lot of cases like this, in my opinion--lack of cooperation and a > sense of working with people in cases like this, and I don't know > that they're going to turn over the information they have to the > state authorities. As a matter of fact, as has been somewhat > widely publicized, they haven't even turned over information to > the defense as they are supposed to by law--to the defenses of > these two individuals. > > QUESTION: Would you like to comment on Janet Reno's statement > that the government has identified all of the people involved, > meaning, of course, McVeigh and Nichols? > > KEY: That's an absolute falsehood and if she doesn't know it, > which I can't imagine that she doesn't know that there are other > people involved and that they are intentionally covering it up, > then she ought to resign and step down. > > QUESTION: Yesterday you held a press conference in which two > Oklahoma County Reserve Deputy Sheriffs came forward. They > claimed U.S. Congressman Istook and a photographer who > accompanied him said the government had prior knowledge of a bomb > threat. Was that the substance of what they said to the grand > jury, or can you comment on that? > > KEY: They have not appeared before the grand jury yet, but that > will be what they say before them, because they have signed > affidavits and specific statements to that effect. The exact > words Congressman Istook said to one of the gentlemen--and the > photographer, who is a local, fairly well-known female attorney > here, spoke to the other gentleman simultaneously--and Istook > said to the one guy after some small talk, "Yeah this is a > terrible thing and we knew this was going to happen, and we just > blew it." And the reserve Deputy Sheriff said to him, "Excuse me > sir?" And he said "Yeah we got a," I can't remember if he said > a warning or information, "about a fundamentalist Islamic group > and we blew it." > > QUESTION: Do you have any information about how widespread this > prior knowledge was in the federal government, with regard to > Congressmen and Senators and government agencies? > > KEY: Yes, I do. > > QUESTION: No further comment? > > KEY: Not now. We've learned the hard way that we're fighting a > big, major battle, a big opponent that wants to keep this under > lock and key and we're going to handle this appropriately and > that's why we had the press conference yesterday in the manner > that we did. > > QUESTION: The two reserve deputies mentioned the presence of a > fundamentalist Islamic group. Do you have any knowledge that > such a group participated in planning the bombing, or carrying it > out? > > KEY: No other information that hasn't already been disseminated > publicly somewhere. There is a little bit of information that > has not been very widely talked about. Are you familiar with > Cary Gagan? > > QUESTIONER: That's a name I'm not familiar with. > > KEY: He's an informant who came forward to the Justice > Department in September of 1994 saying that he was being > recruited by a group of people which included Middle Eastern, > Latin American, and white Americans planning to blow up a > government building or buildings in the Midwest somewhere.(2) > > QUESTION: I've read that some people who knew things the > government did not want them to know have died or been > threatened. Is either of these true, to your knowledge? > > KEY: It's a very strong possibility with one or two people, in > my opinion. But that's as far as I'm willing to go with that > particular subject. > > QUESTION: How has your effort to get to the truth in this matter > affected your political career? > > KEY: Well, my first reelection bid after I got involved in this > was in 1996, when and after I had taken the strongest dose of > criticism. And I didn't have a Democratic opponent, which is > highly unusual, especially since the Democrats were trying to > find someone to run against me. I had one Republican opponent, > and I beat him 75% to 25%. I don't say that boasting by any > means, but I think it is a real clear indicator of how people > feel about doing what we've done, which is simply to ask > questions. We haven't come out in an irresponsible way--and > we've been misquoted--and even in the face of that I think people > saw what we were doing and what was going on here locally. And > they've deemed it to be responsible enough that it was a > reasonable thing to do. > > QUESTION: Do you think the American people will ever get the > full story about what happened on April 19, 1995? > > KEY: I don't know about the full story, but I think we'll get a > lot closer to the truth. That's what we're working toward, to > get as much as we can, and that's all we can do. > > QUESTION: Do you have anything else you would like for the > readers of The Washington Weekly to know? > > KEY: I would like for them to know how to get in touch with us > if they have information or would like to help us in any way. > > QUESTION: Would you like to give an address or a phone number? > > KEY: The phone number is (405) 879-2760, and we also have a web > site which is at http://www.okcbombing.org Our mailing address is > P.O. Box 75697, Oklahoma City, OK, 73147. > > NOTES: > > (1) The Kehoe brothers were indicted in Arkansas last month for > the murder of the Mueller family of Arkansas after a robbery that > netted precious metals, coins and gun parts in early 1995. > Mueller had met Andreas Strassmeir at a gun show in Fort Smith, > Arkansas. A former Spokane motel manager has tied Chevie Kehoe > to Tim McVeigh. > > (2) The book "The Oklahoma City Bombing and the Politics of > Terror" by David Hoffman, expected to be released next month, > details the allegations of federal informant Cary Gagan about a > ring of Middle-Eastern terrorists and Latin American drug > traffickers involved in planning the bombing. > > [Wesley Phelan is Associate Professor of Political Science at > Eureka College in Eureka, Illinois] > > Published in the Jan. 19, 1998 issue of The Washington Weekly > Copyright 1998 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com) > Reposting permitted with this message intact - -- ======================== Johnny Johnson Independent FlashNet Distributor http://www.copyplus.net ICQ #: 5541896 ======================== Order "RED SKY" For a Friend... "A LINE IN THE SAND" For You! http://www.riverscape.com/sp - --------------C8B1CF6E1C513D84E01C7557-- - --1915762710-1369479000-885433936=:21051-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:31:20 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) >> My thoughts about the current Clinton sex scandal. >> >> >> > "I can say that the president was quite firm about me making that >> > statement," McCurry said. >> > >> > The presidential spokesman tried to portray a White House going about >> > its work in a normal fashion despite the sensational charges. He said >> > that the president's outrage over the charges quickly faded as he turned >> > to discussions with national security advisers about Iraq. >> Time for a war^^^^ > >Run, do not walk, to the nearest theatre showing "Wag the Dog" for a couple of >hours ROTFLYAO. Even the Blue Wolf will enjoy that one. I'll second that one! - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 20:18:34 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Slick Outslicked About the latest Klinton sex scandal: It just gets better and better. Apparently some of Slick's genetic material impacted some of her clothes and she kept it as a souvenir, so now there's DNA evidence. Seems like Slick just outslicked himself, when he should have just stuck to slicking, himself.....:-) - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:50:01 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: IP: May We See Your Papers Please? http://home.earthlink.net/~idzrus/index.html - ------- Did you know you have to provide 'GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION' to travel? I took one of my very infrequent trips on an airplane last week. I had been forewarned by one of my daughters that I would HAVE to produce a Drivers License in order to get past the baggage check-in desk. Well, this just happens to be an extremely sensitive issue with me and I said, "NO WAY," I will get on that plane using my Costco card as it has my photo on it. I did call the airline and ask what the deal was on identification. I did this as the plane tickets were a gift from my brother and sister-in-law and I couldn't goof up their gift to me to prove a point. The person I spoke with on the phone was very polite in telling me that I would indeed need GOVERNMENT ISSUED ID to board the plane. I asked what is considered Government Issued ID? She explained that would be a state issued Drivers License, a state issued Identification Card, or a Passport. I asked what a person can do that has none of those items. She replied, then you must get one of them. I told her my flight was scheduled the next day so there was no time to get any of those items and just whom would I talk with to discover what other options would be available. Her response was to go talk with the airport security at the airport. I did not do that, choosing instead to take my chances of just going to the airport and seeing what would happen. I love real life adventures. Upon arriving at Sea-Tac I gave my daughter the usual hug and kiss and said "Bye, see you in a week" - or whatever. Grabbed my luggage and headed towards the baggage/ticket counter. When my turn came I placed my suitcase on the proper spot and handed the clerk my tickets. She looked at them and asked for ID. I opened my purse and my wallet and pulled out my Costco Card and handed it to her. Believe me, this was a Kodak Moment!!!! She recovered and then explained that I needed to produce GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. The ensuing discussion was long (took about 15 minutes to get past this point to the next step) and I will just summarize for this writing. Oh yes, there were many people standing around that heard all of this. We went back and forth over GOVERNMENT ISSUED ID and my comments about why did I need a drivers license, I wasn't driving the plane--that I thought I lived in America and we had freedom here and hadn't reached the point of having to PRODUCE OUR PAPERS. Next we discussed how someone who flies only every few years is to know of these socialist rules. The requirement of needing GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION is not printed on the tickets or the envelopes that contain the tickets. And, as I looked around where I stood (where they sell tickets) there was not any notice concerning that rule. She explained that I would have been advised at the time I purchased the tickets of the ID requirement. I told her I didn't purchase the tickets, they were a gift and had been mailed to me. "Well, it is FAA rules", she said. I asked for a copy of those rules so that I could see for myself if that was indeed true. She didn't have a copy and told me to contact FAA for one. I explained that it was odd that IF that is the rule then it should be readily available for the public to see. The conversation then went to how safe she feels knowing that everyone on the plane has GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION as it makes everyone SAFER and more SECURE. I remarked that false identification is not that hard to get and I didn't understand how the possession of possibly false GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION could make anyone feel safer. I certainly didn't feel any safer or more secure knowing that all passengers carried GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. We agreed that we seemed to have different views on what constitutes SAFETY and SECURITY. (I really wanted to explain how the FBI, BATF, CIA, had GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION and I wondered how SAFE & SECURE the Randy Weaver family and the Branch Davidians felt knowing that those firing on them had GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. I don't think she would have comprehended the relationship at all). I finally asked her point blank if the fact that I didn't produce any GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION was going to create denial of my boarding the plane. She was very exasperated at this point as I am sure they have not been taught how to deal with nice little old ladies that aren't nasty or threatening but just asking honest questions. She then reached down below her counter area and pulled out a very bright flourescent orange strip of card stock, approx 18 inches x 1.5 inches that she folded around my purse strap and stapled it. I was told NOT TO REMOVE it either. She then explained that I would HAVE to submit to a physical search of my purse upon passing thru the metal detection area. AND, be sure they punch this strip after you have been searched or YOU WILL NOT GET ON THAT PLANE!!! I looked at her and asked if the searchers were aware that they had to punch that strip of bright orange paper after they searched my purse? "Yes, they know that," she replied. "Well then, I guess it is their responsibility to punch it and not mine to be sure they do, right?" She didn't really answer me but made it clear in motions that she was done with me and for me to proceed so she could help the next person. I proceeded to the metal detection area where a long line was waiting to be ‘detected.' I was not carrying anything other than my purse which had this BRIGHT orange flagging on it so that everyone would know I was some sort of criminal and not a compliant little sheep following the dictates of the NWO. I enjoy watching people so this gave me a lot of entertainment as I stood in line. When I reached the position of approximately 7th in line the man that I presume is an observer was saying something. I didn't realize right away that he was talking to me. When it dawned on me that he was directing his comments to me I asked him to please repeat what he said as I had not heard him. He smiled broadly and pointed at the BRIGHT orange flagging and asked me WHAT I had done to deserve that as they rarely ever see that on a passenger. Keep in mind this area was crowded and the voice level had to be raised in order to be heard. I made sure my purse became very visible and smiling, I told him (loudly) that I was guilty of NOT PRODUCING GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION as I thought I lived in AMERICA and didn't realize I was living in NAZI GERMANY!!! This definitely caught the attention of many and the observer smiled and said OK, he understood. By this time I was at the metal detector and placed my purse on the conveyor belt and walked thru to be ‘detected.' A nice young black woman took my purse and asked me to please step to the side with her as they needed to physically search my purse. I said fine and followed her to a window sill. She explained she had to call for a supervisor. When the supervisor appeared the first person began to remove the items from my purse. I love these exercises. I have a well stocked purse, too. In fact, it was even more so than usual as I had my 8 oz bottle of Colloidal Silver in my purse so that it wouldn't spill in my suitcase. I am an E'Ola Distributor and I take the C.S. daily as a preventative anti-biotic (I am allergic to all but two prescription anti-biotics) so I had to have it with me. I had to explain what was in the bottle, which I did. I told both of them they were lucky I had not brought my little C.S. Maker (for making the C.S. myself) as it has three batteries and wires and silver probes. That would have made them all nervous and probably landed me in a cell somewhere. Both of them were very nice and polite through this process. After all items were removed and those that needed explanation were explained, the woman attempted to replace the items in my purse. After a while of watching the attempted repack I asked if there was any rule that prevented me from repacking it. She gratefully said no, so I did the chore. As I was repacking my purse the supervisor (he was of Asian decent) asked me WHY I went through all of this. I explained to him that I was born in America almost 58 years ago and I still believed in ALL the freedoms that Americans are supposed to have. Also, that I would continue to exercise my rights as I understand them until the day I die in spite of the Socialist restraints being imposed upon the people of this Country. This man looked me square in the eyes and told me "thank you" and to please continue doing it. He wished more people would stand against these things as I have chosen to do. I wish I would have had more time to find out where he came from and to hear his story but flight time was fast arriving so off I went to the boarding area. I made mental notes of the expressions on the faces of those that would see my BRIGHT orange flagging (reminded me of the YELLOW STAR during WWII) and wished I had time to explain to them the reason why I had it. Perhaps a few understood. I boarded the plane without further stops and arrived in Reno on time. An amazing event took place in spite of my not having produced GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION but only using a Costco Card to get on board--all of the passengers on that flight arrived SAFELY, can you believe it? No one was harmed by my lack of producing GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** http://www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:47:17 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Re: IP: May We See Your Papers Please? Hmmmm... I posted this on Sunday and it finally hit ROC on Wednesday night?!?!? Interesting... Also interesting that it's got the IgnitionPoint IP label on it on the ROC list and still says it's from me. I sent it to both lists. Me thinks somebody's a tampering with my email... - - Monte >Did you know you have to provide 'GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION' to >travel? ... - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:01:34 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) > For all these years I've kind of stood in awe of the Clinton Machine. > >From the early days when the War Room in Little Rock was fighting to > suppress those Bimbo Eruptions and facts about Clintons involvement in > war protests and draft dodging they've really impressed me with their > ability to either spin a story into meaninglessness or strong-arming > editors into keeping the story from ever appearing. > > For all these months that I've monitored these news groups I've watched > the real anti-Clinton zealots continually predict that 'indictments are > just around the corner'. And Clinton's defenders just laughed and > pointed to the opinion polls. Two words: Why now? Herr Foster died (probably of political murder), Colby died, (probably of political murder), C's security chief died in Little Rock (probably of political murder). The Chinese (Red) pumped money to the DNC and got some pretty obvious quid pro quos. There is more than enough scandal to go around. Why now? I personally don't know. But I also don't believe that the Newsweek guy who broke this story (who has known about the intern for 3-4 months according to this morning's interview on Don Imus) really had much say on how/when the story broke. The whole thing is a pretty sad commentary on the degree of corruption in D.C. today. Regardless of the morality of shtupping 21-year old interns and telling them to lie about it - it doesn't strike me as the most serious thing going on today. Let's not forget Mena. Maybe the D's like this because it has the potential to depose someone who is an embarrassment and the R's like it because it leaves some of the stuff (like Mena and siphoning funds out of bankrupt S&L's) that they would like to see forgotten. I think there are plots within plots here. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:11:00 -0600 From: jim bohan Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) John Curtis wrote: > Why now? I personally don't know. But I also don't > believe that the Newsweek guy who broke this story (who has > known about the intern for 3-4 months according to this morning's > interview on Don Imus) really had much say on how/when the > story broke. Lets don't forget that newsweek spiked Ishikoff's story. All this has come about because someone tipped Matt Drudge and he broadcast it worldwide. That makes the third time Ishikoff has had a story spiked. The original Paula Jones Story by the WPost, the Willey story and now Lewinsky. It's also the second time Drudge has scooped him by releasing a story that his magazine spiked. In other words, all this stuff is broadcast to the world because a little nerdy guy in a cheap apartment in hollywood decided to start playing on the net a few years ago. Let anyone who: 1. Doubts the power of this medium 2. Doesn't think "one person" can make a difference take note. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:01:14 -0800 From: Lew Glendenning Subject: RE: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD270B.EC9170C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I especially can't understand the outrage/scandal of telling someone = else to lie vs doing it yourself. As for "why now" and "plots within plots", I don't think we need = conspiracy to explain it. Human minds can't handle a lot of complexity = of some kinds. There are at least 10 major players/sides in this game, e.g. Starr, = Smaltz, Clinton's White House, Clinton's Dixie Mafia, Mrs. Clinton, = Justice, FBI, all the factions in Congress, all of the factions of the = media... all with their own sometimes-conflicting-agendas and internal = politics. No single insider can understand all aspects of their own = decisions, and nobody outside can understand all of the internal = politics of each faction, much less how they affect each other. Don't infer conspiracy when complexity and/or stupidty explains it. Lew - -----Original Message----- From: John Curtis [SMTP:jcurtis@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 1998 7:02 AM To: roc@lists.xmission.com Cc: act@efn.org Subject: Re: Good cop bad cop, RE:Death Starr (fwd) > For all these years I've kind of stood in awe of the Clinton Machine. > >From the early days when the War Room in Little Rock was fighting to > suppress those Bimbo Eruptions and facts about Clintons involvement in > war protests and draft dodging they've really impressed me with their > ability to either spin a story into meaninglessness or strong-arming > editors into keeping the story from ever appearing. >=20 > For all these months that I've monitored these news groups I've = watched > the real anti-Clinton zealots continually predict that 'indictments = are > just around the corner'. And Clinton's defenders just laughed and > pointed to the opinion polls. Two words: Why now? Herr Foster died (probably of political murder), Colby died, (probably of political murder), C's security chief died in=20 Little Rock (probably of political murder). The Chinese=20 (Red) pumped money to the DNC and got some pretty obvious=20 quid pro quos. There is more than enough scandal to go=20 around. Why now? I personally don't know. But I also don't=20 believe that the Newsweek guy who broke this story (who has=20 known about the intern for 3-4 months according to this morning's=20 interview on Don Imus) really had much say on how/when the=20 story broke. The whole thing is a pretty sad commentary on the degree of=20 corruption in D.C. today. Regardless of the morality of=20 shtupping 21-year old interns and telling them to lie about=20 it - it doesn't strike me as the most serious thing going=20 on today. Let's not forget Mena. Maybe the D's like this because it=20 has the potential to depose someone who is an embarrassment and=20 the R's like it because it leaves some of the stuff (like=20 Mena and siphoning funds out of bankrupt S&L's) that they would=20 like to see forgotten. 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