From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #54 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, January 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 054 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 16:51:02 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Text of HR 2734 (fwd) On Jan 26, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Time to call your representatives... - ------------------------------------- HR 2734 IH 105th CONGRESS 1st Session To clarify the standard required for the importation of sporting arms into the United States, and for other purposes. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES October 24, 1997 Mr. BARR of Georgia (for himself, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. GOODE, Mr. BARTON of Texas, Mr. WISE, Mr. BUNNING, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. NORWOOD, Mr. BARCIA, Mr. CUNNINGHAM, Mr. WATTS of Oklahoma, and Mr. BRADY) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To clarify the standard required for the importation of sporting arms into the United States, and for other purposes. [Italic->] Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, [<-Italic] SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Consumer's Choice Protection Act of 1997'. SEC. 2. FINDINGS; PURPOSE. (a) FINDINGS- Congress finds the following: (1) Citizens have a right, under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution, to keep and bear arms. The Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986 were not enacted by Congress with the intent of frustrating the free exercise of that right, including giving law abiding firearms owners the widest possible consumer choice in firearms types and models. (2) The Congress has only twice in the Nation's history, in 1934 and in 1994, elected to limit, restrict, or prohibit the type of firearm a law abiding citizen may own. Of the 2 actions, the last one by Congress in 1994 was only taken after a long and very divisive debate, resulting in passage of the restrictions by only a very few votes. Subsequently in 1996, the House of Representatives, but not the Senate, passed a measure to repeal the 1994 ownership restrictions. (3) The Secretary of the Treasury, pursuant to section 925(d) of title 18, United States Code, is charged by Congress to approve the importation of firearms into the United States for private ownership if such firearms are determined to be for `sporting purposes'. (4) The executive branch has interpreted `sporting purposes' in a narrow and obstructive manner, impeding firearms imports over the years, interfering with the citizenry's constitutional rights, and diminishing consumer choice to the point where the current administration has clearly and forcefully indicated its intent to ban the importation of firearms that are not only lawful to own if domestically produced in the United States, but otherwise meet the criteria that the Congress and the current administration defined in 1994 for a lawful firearm. (b) PURPOSE- The purposes of this Act are as follows: (1) To clarify the standard used to import firearms into the United States. (2) To make it clear that firearms imports may not be subject to discriminatory treatment, and that citizens should retain the choice to own and use such firearms for all lawful purposes, including hunting, self defense, collecting, competitive shooting, or plinking. (3) To prevent the further impediment of commerce by providing for a fast track consideration of import permits. SEC. 3. MODIFICATION OF STANDARD FOR IMPORTATION OF FIREARMS. (a) IN GENERAL- Section 922(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows: `(d)(1) Within 30 days after the Secretary receives an application therefor, the Secretary shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition-- `(A) is being imported or brought in for scientific or research purposes, or is for use in connection with competition or training pursuant to chapter 401 of title 10; `(B) is an unserviceable firearm, other than a machinegun as defined in section 5845(b) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (not readily restorable to firing condition), imported or brought in as a curio or museum piece; `(C) is not-- `(i) a firearm (as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986); or `(ii) subject to the prohibition of section 922(v) of this title, and if the Secretary has denied an application to import a firearm pursuant to this subparagraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; or `(D) was previously taken out of the United States or a possession by the person who is bringing in the firearm or ammunition. `(2) Within 30 days after the Secretary receives an application therefor, the Secretary shall permit the conditional importation or bringing in of a firearm or ammunition for examination and testing in connection with the making of a determination as to whether the importation or bringing in of such firearm or ammunition will be allowed under this subsection.'. (b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 922(r) of such title is amended by striking `925(d)(3)' and inserting `925(d)(1)(C)'. SEC. 4. EFFECTIVE DATE. The amendments made by this Act shall apply to applications pending on or after October 1, 1997. ************************************************** * If you think you have the answer, you probably * * didn't understand the question! * ************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 16:51:38 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Text of HR 2721 (fwd) On Jan 26, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Call your representatives... - ---------------------------------------- HR 2721 IH 105th CONGRESS 1st Session To restore the second amendment rights of all Americans. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES October 23, 1997 Mr. PAUL introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary A BILL To restore the second amendment rights of all Americans. [Italic->] Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, [<-Italic] SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Second Amendment Protection Act of 1997'. SEC. 2. REPEAL OF FEDERAL HARASSMENT PERIOD. Public Law 103-159 is hereby replaced, and any provisions of law amended or repealed by such Act are restored or revived as if such Act has not been enacted. SEC. 3. REPEAL OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL GUN BAN. Title XI of Public Law 103-322 is hereby repealed, and any provisions of law amended or repealed by such title are restored or revived as if such title had not been enacted. SEC. 4. REPEAL OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL DISTINCTION. (a) Section 201 of title 11 of Public Law 90-618 is amended by striking `which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes,' and `which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.' (b) Public Law 90-351, as amended, is amended as follows: (1) In section 902, strike `which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes,' `which the owner intends to use solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes,' `a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes,' `devoted to the collection, competitive use, or other sporting use of firearms in the community,' `determined by the Secretary of the Treasury to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes and,' `(A) determined by the Secretary to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes, or determined by the Department of Defense to be a type of firearm normally classified as a war souvenir, and (B),' `and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes,' and `provided that such handguns are generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes;'. (2) Strike `lawful sporting purposes' and inserting in lieu thereof `lawful purposes'. SEC. 5. EFFECTIVE DATE. The provisions of this Act shall take effect immediately upon enactment. ************************************************** * If you think you have the answer, you probably * * didn't understand the question! * ************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:20:02 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: The Dysfunctional President At 9:47 AM -0600 1/26/98, wrote: >From: Ann Khan >Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:33:37 -0600 >Subject: CAS: BILL HAD "HUNDREDS' > >NY Post >BILL HAD "HUNDREDS' > > By DEBORAH ORIN - Washington Bureau Chief Is this the headline the Post had? Because it clearly is -not- what Clinton said. He said hundreds -would-come-forward-. Claiming differently leaves the weasel room open for him and it's why he so often gets out of stuff like this. He can portray his opponents (us) as mischaracterizing the truth. There comes a time when you only mount attacks that will -succeed- I submit this is one of those times. There's -plenty- of evidence of wrongdoing here, we don't need to bend stuff to fit. All IMO. Boyd >========================================================================== >This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If >you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to >majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas > > > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:20:02 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: The Dysfunctional President At 9:47 AM -0600 1/26/98, wrote: >From: Ann Khan >Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:33:37 -0600 >Subject: CAS: BILL HAD "HUNDREDS' > >NY Post >BILL HAD "HUNDREDS' > > By DEBORAH ORIN - Washington Bureau Chief Is this the headline the Post had? Because it clearly is -not- what Clinton said. He said hundreds -would-come-forward-. Claiming differently leaves the weasel room open for him and it's why he so often gets out of stuff like this. He can portray his opponents (us) as mischaracterizing the truth. There comes a time when you only mount attacks that will -succeed- I submit this is one of those times. There's -plenty- of evidence of wrongdoing here, we don't need to bend stuff to fit. All IMO. Boyd >========================================================================== >This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If >you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to >majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas > > > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Ferris Subject: Re: Carville's Commandos Suit Up for "WAR" (Carville's Word!) Points well made, Boyd. Great food for thought. Please understand that watching Carville made me nauseated. He is really an evil SOB who hates Americans deep in his heart. I believe that. That aside, I agree with you about # 2. I am hoping that # 1 will be forced to resign within weeks. But he will not go down without a fight, the likes of which none of us have ever seen. He is drunk with power and will not let go of it without kicking and screaming wildly as he goes. And go he must (via resignation), for the good of the Country. Best regards, Chris Ferris On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Boyd wrote: > I hope none of my conservative friends take me wrong here. Words like > "elitist" or "police" state have been long abused by people with no idea of > their meaning. But in the Websters (tm) sense of the word, Carville is an > elitist. He senses his power crumbling at the edges and feels a righteous > (ha!) anger that -we- could impune -his- president. > > The rule of law is endangered (being diplomatic here) by the cult of > personality, has been for some time. When we pass laws that we know in > advance aren't enforceable (guns, speech, drugs, seizure, travel etc etc > etc) when we make our "meta" law (the constitution) a "living document" we > get guys who build and reinforce other systems of authority, like Carville > and company. > > Here in Washington several years ago, people were made aware of federal > laws against the -criticism- of federal judges (the Woodbridge case) but > those were people without name appendages (JD., Sen., PHD, etc) people who > were not known to the likes of Carville. It will be interesting indeed to > see how he fares. Since IMO we do not live in a nation ruled by law I don't > think anything at all will come of it. He can't spell f-e-d-e-r-a-l > p-r-i-s-o-n, he has people to do that for him. > > And, not to dampen the gleeful celebration surrounding recent events, but I > do have one word for the list: Algore. Not something -I'm- excited about I > can tell you, obviously not a move toward an America the Free. All IMO. > -Boyd Kneeland > > > At 3:53 PM -0500 1/25/98, Chris Ferris wrote: > >I watched with utter amazement this morning on a Sunday A.M. political > >talking head show as Clinton damage controller and junkyard dog James > >Carville, using a hateful and ugly and loud tone of voice, said, "This is > >WAR!" When asked by a startled commentator, "War against whom?", Carville > >repeated the word "WAR" and stated that the independent counsel (Judge > >Ken Starr) was the person against whom "war" would be waged. A rabid > >Clintonista threatening "WAR" against Judge Ken Starr ??? Hmmmm. Can > >Carville spell f-e-d-e-r-a-l p-r-i-s-o-n ??? > > > >Carville was seething as he was being filmed and quoted. Am I over-reacting, > >or does his threat of making "WAR" against an independent counsel who is > >a federal judge constitute a THREAT OF VIOLENCE against a member of the > >federal judiciary? I am serious. Could he be charged and indicted? Or at > >least excoriated by Americans as a leader of an off-the-wall, women-hating > >left-wing-extremist-militia of Clintonistas out to make "WAR" on a > >federal judge? > > > >If others saw Carville on TV this morning ("Meet The Press", if I recall > >correctly), what did you think of his tone, his choice of verbiage, his > >facial expressions ??? If I were Ken Starr, I would ask the Attorney > >General to obtain a warrant for Carville's arrest for criminal threatening > >at the very least and toss his sorry rear end in jail ... where he could > >meet some real Bubbas ... Ouch! > > > >Best regards, Chris Ferris > > > >N.B. You had to see Carville say "WAR" (almost shouting) to appreciate the > >exact context of his use of the word ... against an independent counsel, > >against a federal judge !!! Unreal, but then again, the guy is a long time > >FOB. So, anything goes. Or does it? Find out exactly what he said from > >transcripts and then write your Congressman and Senators to demand that > >he be indicted and tried for threatening Judge Starr !!! > > > >- > > > > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:35:01 -0800 (PST) From: wbg Subject: bumperstickers > Chris Ferris wrote: > > > ROC and NOBAN list readers: > > > > Here are some ideas for some "Bye Bye, Bill!" bumper stickers ... > lobo added: > The day Spiro Agnew resigned I was on the pasadena freeway.Heard on the radio > that Agnew had resigned. No sooner than > the words left the speakers a hippie in a VW bus passed me > sporting a bumper sticker that said: > > "One Down, One to Go!" > > We need to have that one ready for the day it happens. I remember the week after Nixon fired Archibald Cox, somebody printed up a bumpersticker that read: IMPEACH THE COX-SHUCKER Brewster -- *********************************************************************** "Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges." Tacitus W. Brewster Gillett wbg@hevanet.com Portland, Oregon USA ************************************************************************ - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:19:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Ferris Subject: "My Part Will Go On" (R-RATED "Gov Theme" from "Clintontanic") THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE With apologies to Celine Dion ... (Take it away, Wee Willie ...) Every night in my schemes, I squeeze you, I feel you, That is how I know you go on, Far across The White House, And desktops between us, You have come to show you go on, Near, far, wherever you are, I'm relieved that my part does go on, Unsure, you opened the door, And you've seen, yes, my part, And my part will go on and on, This Gov can touch you one time, And last for a wifetime, And don't you let go 'til I'm done, Love was when I shoved you, One screw time I hold to, Despite my wife, we'll always go on, Near, far, wherever you are, I'm relieved that my part does go on, Unsure, you opened the door, And you've seen, yes, my part, And my part will go on and on, My dear, your lawyers should fear, 'Cause they know that my part will go on, Whatever you say, it won't matter anyway, Girls aren't safe near my part, And my part will go on and on. THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE THIS IS A SATIRE The shame is, I just * love * Celine Dion's rendition of the haunting love song "My Heart Will Go On" ... and we all know that WJC, dressed as Hillary, would have surely boarded one of the Titanic's lifeboats, don't we, had he been a passenger in April of 1912 when the liner was sinking in the North Atlantic ... Best regards, Christopher C. Ferris Litchfield NH ferriscc@mainstream.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 20:32:51 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Hallmark Pulls "April Morning" (fwd) On Jan 26, Norman Olson wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "APRIL MORNING" - A Samuel Goldwyn Home Entertainment Production released through Hallmark Home Entertainment. The True Story of the birth of a nation. Revealed against the backdrop of the British attack on Lexington and Concord, April 19, 1775, are the lives and personalities of those who stood that April Morning. Tommy Lee Jones plays Moses Cooper, a father of 15-year old Adam, played by Chad Lowe. Cooper is frightened. The British have harrassed and intimidated the citizens in the area. Guns, powder and shot have been found hidden in merchandize moving between the towns and villages. Cooper knows that his leadership role in the Lexington Militia will soon be put to the test. Rip Torn plays Solomon Chandler, a merchant and war veteran who has fought against the French and the Indians. Chandler has been stopped and beaten by redcoats. His cargo has been broken into by British soldiers--guns have been found. The story begins on April 18. The events of that day in Lexington will bring about the decision for the Lexington Militia to stand as word comes that the British are coming. Young Adam Cooper is about to become a man. In one sensitive scene, Moses Cooper instructs his son how to prepare for shooting a man. "Don't count the pellets...feel the weight...you won't have time if they are shooting at you." Adams loves Ruth, played by Merideth Salanger. Their talk is about the future, hopeful and bright. The young lovers cannot know what is about to happen. The morning of April 19 dawns quietly and peaceful. The militia presents itself on the Lexington green as in the distance the sound of drums beat out march cadence. The rattle of armor and swords and the hoofbeats of horses near. Nervous and frightened the militia waits, but absent from the group is Solomon Chandler, the braggart who has spoken only of his war experience and who secretly wants to retaliate against the British for what he has suffered. Chandler hides behind a stone wall, within rifle distance of the British who have arrayed themselves in front of the militia. The British commander orders the militia to disperse.... tensions rise.... the British soldiers are nervous and frightened.... and then a shot rings out, a shot that will be heard around the world. April Morning is more than a movie. It is an echo from the past that finds its place in America in 1998. Any American who has wondered if parallels exist between our time and theirs must see April Morning. After viewing it, all doubts will be gone. Fathers and mothers need to view April Morning together. There can be no doubt that what is about to happen in America will plunge entire families into crisis. Review by Norman Olson, Commander, Northern Michigan Regional Militia and Pastor, Freedom Church *************************************************** But April Morning isn't available, even though Hallmark has had the authority to release it. In fact, about six months ago, a small number of the videos were released, only to have the release stopped for some unknown reason. The people at Hallmark Home Entertainment won't explain why the release was halted. I suspect that the emotional nature and historical accuracy of April Morning makes it politically dangerous. Patriot and Militia people across America need to phone Hallmark Home Entertainment at 213-634-3000 and demand that April Morning be released. Merchants need to provide this video in their shops. Churches need to encourage their congregations to view it. I encourage people everywhere to inquire as who why the release of this movie has been stopped. Perhaps the best review I can give is to tell you "The federal government does not want you to see April Morning." Knowing this, I am sure it is something you'll want to do. Kind Regards, Norm Olson [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:52:19 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: (fwd) Hallmark Pulls "April Morning" >"APRIL MORNING" - A Samuel Goldwyn Home Entertainment Production >released through Hallmark Home Entertainment. > >The True Story of the birth of a nation. > >Revealed against the backdrop of the British attack on Lexington and >Concord, April 19, 1775, are the lives and personalities of >those who stood that April Morning. Tommy Lee Jones plays >Moses Cooper, a father of 15-year old Adam, played by Chad Lowe. >Cooper is frightened. The British have harrassed and intimidated >the citizens in the area. Guns, powder and shot have been found >hidden in merchandize moving between the towns and villages. >Cooper knows that his leadership role in the Lexington Militia >will soon be put to the test. >Rip Torn plays Solomon Chandler, a merchant and war veteran who >has fought against the French and the Indians. Chandler has >been stopped and beaten by redcoats. His cargo has been broken >into by British soldiers--guns have been found. > >The story begins on April 18. The events of that day in Lexington >will bring about the decision for the Lexington Militia to stand >as word comes that the British are coming. > >Young Adam Cooper is about to become a man. In one sensitive scene, >Moses Cooper instructs his son how to prepare for shooting a man. >"Don't count the pellets...feel the weight...you won't have time >if they are shooting at you." > >Adams loves Ruth, played by Merideth Salanger. Their talk is about >the future, hopeful and bright. The young lovers cannot know >what is about to happen. > >The morning of April 19 dawns quietly and peaceful. The militia >presents itself on the Lexington green as in the distance the sound >of drums beat out march cadence. The rattle of armor and swords >and the hoofbeats of horses near. Nervous and frightened the >militia waits, but absent from the group is Solomon Chandler, the >braggart who has spoken only of his war experience and who secretly >wants to retaliate against the British for what he has suffered. >Chandler hides behind a stone wall, within rifle distance of the >British who have arrayed themselves in front of the militia. >The British commander orders the militia to disperse.... tensions >rise.... the British soldiers are nervous and frightened.... >and then a shot rings out, a shot that will be heard around the >world. > >April Morning is more than a movie. It is an echo from the past >that finds its place in America in 1998. Any American who has >wondered if parallels exist between our time and theirs must see >April Morning. After viewing it, all doubts will be gone. > >Fathers and mothers need to view April Morning together. There can >be no doubt that what is about to happen in America will plunge >entire families into crisis. > >Review by Norman Olson, Commander, Northern Michigan Regional Militia > and Pastor, Freedom Church > > *************************************************** > >But April Morning isn't available, even though Hallmark has had >the authority to release it. In fact, about six months ago, a >small number of the videos were released, only to have the release >stopped for some unknown reason. The people at Hallmark Home >Entertainment won't explain why the release was halted. I suspect >that the emotional nature and historical accuracy of April Morning >makes it politically dangerous. > > Patriot and Militia people across America need to phone >Hallmark Home Entertainment at 213-634-3000 and demand that >April Morning be released. Merchants need to provide this >video in their shops. Churches need to encourage their >congregations to view it. > > I encourage people everywhere to inquire as who why the release >of this movie has been stopped. > > Perhaps the best review I can give is to tell you "The federal >government does not want you to see April Morning." Knowing >this, I am sure it is something you'll want to do. > > >Kind Regards, > >Norm Olson - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 02:17:49 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Now I've heard it all! You should hear this guy on the Art Bell Show! Revealing everything he knows about the saucer people will save Clinton's bacon!.....:-) He wants everyone to start a massive email campaign to let Clinton know! :-) - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:53:49 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: OKC-Langan 1993 Secret Service Informant (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:43:03 -0600 From: believer@telepath.com To: believer@telepath.com Subject: OKC-Langan 1993 Secret Service Informant Remember Peter Langan (a/k/a Commander Pedro)? Remember Strassmeir, Brescia, Ward and the Aryan Republican Army? In cleaning out the archives, I just found this very interesting tiny excerpt from a newspaper clipping. Excerpts, yes -- but the name and date of the newspaper were included in the notice and the complete article can be obtained. Peter Langan became a Secret Service informant as early as August 1993, almost two years before the OKC bombing. For those who believe that Michael Brescia was one of the John Doe IIs, it should be somewhat interesting to now deal with the reality that he was under the command, while in the ARA, of a Secret Service informant. Think about that for a while. Forwarded from the archives: - ------------------------------ Excerpts from a 'Columbus Dispatch' article 1/20/96 [Headline Unknown] by Brent LaLonde and Michael J. Berens In an informant-for-hire deal, the man arrested after a shootout in Columbus Thursday -- and now a suspect in 18 Midwestern bank robberies--was released from a Georgia jail in 1993 at the request of the Secret Service. Peter K. Langan was released from the county jail in Carnesville, Ga., in August 1993 to help the Secret Service investigate threats against the government, said Lindsay Tise, district attorney for the Northern Judicial Circuit in Georgia and the person who approved the deal. The band of bank robbers may have safe houses and weapon caches nationwide and ties to a white supremacist militia group, the FBI said yesterday. [END OF EXCERPTS] - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:31:52 -0600 (CST) From: Subject: OK grand jury looking at more people - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rick Parker Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:32:36 -0800 Subject: CAS: [OT OKC] Witness List Given to Grand Jury Witness List Given to Grand Jury By Brian Ford World Capitol Bureau 1/27/98 Tulsa World OKLAHOMA CITY -- State Rep. Charles Key's bombing investigation committee has recommended 24 new witnesses to a grand jury, including Gov. Frank Keating's brother Martin. An Oklahoma County grand jury has been investigating the April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building since last summer. The jury is investigating alternative theories concerning the bombing, including whether suspects other than Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were involved in the bomb plot; whether some federal government officials may have received prior information concerning the bomb plot; and whether the bombing involved more than one explosive device. McVeigh and Nichols were convicted in the bombing. Key's group recommended a list of 39 witnesses last summer. Most of those people have since testified before the grand jury. The grand jury is not required to hear from any of the witnesses that are recommended. Among those on the new list is Martin Keating, the author of the novel ``The Final Jihad,'' a story about a terrorist attack on a federal office in Chicago. ``I think the two men who were primarily responsible (for the Oklahoma City bombing) were caught and convicted,'' Martin Keating said. He said those convictions do not mean, however, that McVeigh and Nichols were necessarily the only two involved in the bombing. When asked if he felt he could provide new information to the grand jury, Martin Keating said, ``I doubt it.'' According to Key's summary of the witnesses, Martin Keating told a radio show host on Aug. 21 that he has received information in 1989 from the FBI concerning targeted attacks in the United States including a federal office in middle America. Martin Keating said the FBI never mentioned a federal office in Oklahoma City. He said the FBI was primarily concerned about attacks from foreign terrorists. The Tulsa author said he is working on a sequel titled ``Seekers of the Infidel.'' Another recommended witness is Kathy Wilburn, wife of the late Glenn Wilburn and grandmother of Chase and Colton Smith, who were among the 168 people killed in the bombing. According to Key's summary, Kathy Wilburn was at the Murrah Building scene within five minutes of the bombing and can testify about the number of federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents there. Eight Kansas people are also on the witness list, including a man who was allegedly seen with McVeigh in a bar in Dwight, Kan., during the week of April 7, 1995. The man allegedly told another bar patron: ``Look for something big to happen on the 19th.'' Also on the list are seven people who may provide testimony about the presence of an Oklahoma County bomb squad truck near the Murrah building shortly before the explosion. A member of the Oklahoma County Sheriff's Office bomb squad testified before the grand jury in November. Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel said that on the morning of April 19, 1995, said the bomb squad member, Bill Grimsley, had taken the bomb disposal truck out from the Sheriff's Office headquarters three blocks to the Oklahoma County Courthouse. Grimsley drove to the courthouse to take part in a regular organizational meeting of the courthouse's security detail, Whetsel said. The bomb disposal vehicle was no closer than three blocks from the Murrah Building around 8 a.m. in the morning, Whetsel said. The sheriff said Grimsley took the bomb truck so he could drive straight from the courthouse to a bomb squad training exercise that had been scheduled for months. Whetsel said the bomb squad had received no prior warning of the bombing. Absent from the list were Oklahoma County reserve deputy sheriffs David Kochendorfer and Don Hammons, who alleged during a press conference last week that U.S. Rep. Ernest Istook may have known of prior knowledge of the bomb plot. Key said the two reserve deputies were recommended last week to the grand jury. Istook vehemently denied their accounts. Former Oklahoma City television reporter Jayna Davis testified before the grand jury on Monday. She has testified at least twice before. Davis aired reports in 1995 that dealt with alleged sightings of McVeigh with another man days before the bombing. ========================================================================== This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:41:19 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: Carville's Commandos Suit Up for "WAR" (Carville's Word!) Actually, I over reacted, I feel a little like a puppy who's gotten whacked one time to many with a newspaper. There've been so many times when I thought "wow, this is the one, now even the highly intelligent well educated people I work with are going to finally get a clue about what's happening in this country". Only to have the "expose" turned on it's head in the popular media. Maybe I've gotten to used to waiting for that gigantic newspaper to come down out of the sky ; ) -Boyd >Points well made, Boyd. Great food for thought. Please understand that >watching Carville made me nauseated. He is really an evil SOB who hates >Americans deep in his heart. I believe that. That aside, I agree with you >about # 2. I am hoping that # 1 will be forced to resign within weeks. But >he will not go down without a fight, the likes of which none of us have ever >seen. He is drunk with power and will not let go of it without kicking >and screaming wildly as he goes. And go he must (via resignation), for the >good of the Country. > >Best regards, > >Chris Ferris > >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Boyd wrote: > >> I hope none of my conservative friends take me wrong here. Words like >> "elitist" or "police" state have been long abused by people with no idea of >> their meaning. But in the Websters (tm) sense of the word, Carville is an >> elitist. He senses his power crumbling at the edges and feels a righteous >> (ha!) anger that -we- could impune -his- president. >> >> The rule of law is endangered (being diplomatic here) by the cult of >> personality, has been for some time. When we pass laws that we know in >> advance aren't enforceable (guns, speech, drugs, seizure, travel etc etc >> etc) when we make our "meta" law (the constitution) a "living document" we >> get guys who build and reinforce other systems of authority, like Carville >> and company. >> >> Here in Washington several years ago, people were made aware of federal >> laws against the -criticism- of federal judges (the Woodbridge case) but >> those were people without name appendages (JD., Sen., PHD, etc) people who >> were not known to the likes of Carville. It will be interesting indeed to >> see how he fares. Since IMO we do not live in a nation ruled by law I don't >> think anything at all will come of it. He can't spell f-e-d-e-r-a-l >> p-r-i-s-o-n, he has people to do that for him. >> >> And, not to dampen the gleeful celebration surrounding recent events, but I >> do have one word for the list: Algore. Not something -I'm- excited about I >> can tell you, obviously not a move toward an America the Free. All IMO. >> -Boyd Kneeland >> >> >> At 3:53 PM -0500 1/25/98, Chris Ferris wrote: >> >I watched with utter amazement this morning on a Sunday A.M. political >> >talking head show as Clinton damage controller and junkyard dog James >> >Carville, using a hateful and ugly and loud tone of voice, said, "This is >> >WAR!" When asked by a startled commentator, "War against whom?", Carville >> >repeated the word "WAR" and stated that the independent counsel (Judge >> >Ken Starr) was the person against whom "war" would be waged. A rabid >> >Clintonista threatening "WAR" against Judge Ken Starr ??? Hmmmm. Can >> >Carville spell f-e-d-e-r-a-l p-r-i-s-o-n ??? >> > >> >Carville was seething as he was being filmed and quoted. Am I >>over-reacting, >> >or does his threat of making "WAR" against an independent counsel who is >> >a federal judge constitute a THREAT OF VIOLENCE against a member of the >> >federal judiciary? I am serious. Could he be charged and indicted? Or at >> >least excoriated by Americans as a leader of an off-the-wall, women-hating >> >left-wing-extremist-militia of Clintonistas out to make "WAR" on a >> >federal judge? >> > >> >If others saw Carville on TV this morning ("Meet The Press", if I recall >> >correctly), what did you think of his tone, his choice of verbiage, his >> >facial expressions ??? If I were Ken Starr, I would ask the Attorney >> >General to obtain a warrant for Carville's arrest for criminal threatening >> >at the very least and toss his sorry rear end in jail ... where he could >> >meet some real Bubbas ... Ouch! >> > >> >Best regards, Chris Ferris >> > >> >N.B. You had to see Carville say "WAR" (almost shouting) to appreciate the >> >exact context of his use of the word ... against an independent counsel, >> >against a federal judge !!! Unreal, but then again, the guy is a long time >> >FOB. So, anything goes. Or does it? Find out exactly what he said from >> >transcripts and then write your Congressman and Senators to demand that >> >he be indicted and tried for threatening Judge Starr !!! >> > >> >- >> >> >> >> >> - >> > >- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #54 ************************