From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #85 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 02 : Number 085 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:09:35 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Hi all, For all of you luck citizen/residents of the State(?) of Washington, have I got news for you. Our(?) liberal governor Locke has signed into law the new requirement, that citizens are now required to surrender their Social Security Number (SSN) to the state agents to receive a hunting, or fishing, or driving license. Yup! You guessed it, the bill that was shelved in committee, was resurected at the behest of REPUBLIKAN committee members - no less, is now law. OBTW, failure to provide that info is now a crime, at the time of application. If you apply and refuse to provide that number, not only will you not be give the license, but by federal law you are a criminal from that point on untill _you_ prove yourself innocent of not being guilty for non-support of a child. Yup, deadbeat dads-r-us! Ladies too! How did all this happen? (you ask) Well, Sen. Alex Deccio, R-Yakima, says this: "I understand what you are all saying, but it's a fight for another day. Why should we hold this hostage, when $600 million are at stake." There you are, folks, follow the money. ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:09:35 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Hi all, For all of you luck citizen/residents of the State(?) of Washington, have I got news for you. Our(?) liberal governor Locke has signed into law the new requirement, that citizens are now required to surrender their Social Security Number (SSN) to the state agents to receive a hunting, or fishing, or driving license. Yup! You guessed it, the bill that was shelved in committee, was resurected at the behest of REPUBLIKAN committee members - no less, is now law. OBTW, failure to provide that info is now a crime, at the time of application. If you apply and refuse to provide that number, not only will you not be give the license, but by federal law you are a criminal from that point on untill _you_ prove yourself innocent of not being guilty for non-support of a child. Yup, deadbeat dads-r-us! Ladies too! How did all this happen? (you ask) Well, Sen. Alex Deccio, R-Yakima, says this: "I understand what you are all saying, but it's a fight for another day. Why should we hold this hostage, when $600 million are at stake." There you are, folks, follow the money. ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:31:02 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Ya know I just haveve the -worst- memory for numbers. I carry this 3com palm pilot, I understand fairly abstract math concepts well (though I failed college algebra the first try). It's too bad really, with my academic history of borderline dyslexia I would -hate- to make a mistake when I get my Washington Drivers license renewed. Fortunately, I know the State would never contravene the clear intent of the Americans with Disabilities Act by further vicitimizing me with a "punishment" for committing an error on a form. -Boyd (Or whoever's spoofing his account today.) PS It is time to -replace- some Republicrats! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:31:02 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Ya know I just haveve the -worst- memory for numbers. I carry this 3com palm pilot, I understand fairly abstract math concepts well (though I failed college algebra the first try). It's too bad really, with my academic history of borderline dyslexia I would -hate- to make a mistake when I get my Washington Drivers license renewed. Fortunately, I know the State would never contravene the clear intent of the Americans with Disabilities Act by further vicitimizing me with a "punishment" for committing an error on a form. -Boyd (Or whoever's spoofing his account today.) PS It is time to -replace- some Republicrats! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:37:43 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors >PS It is time to -replace- some Republicrats! You know it is really time to just vote some of these bastards out. Trent Lott wants to tax the damn Internet (he just doesn't get it). Gingrich thinks he's going to run for President, when even I have to admit he carries on like a loon sometimes. What's with this Puerto Rico Statehood deal? Its rigged so that the only result is Statehood or try again later. I'm nominally a Republican and there just seem to be fewer and fewer I'm willing to vote for. Its status quo from the Republican's or diluted leftism from the Democrats. Sorry about the rant. I can recomend the following books as interesting, well-researched, and definitely mind-opening: "The Strange Death of Vince Foster" - Christopher Ruddy "The Dark Side of Camelot" - Seymour Hersh I'm about to crack open "The Reawakening of the Beast", about rise of facist movements in U.S. and Europe. Check out the Hersh book, it is fascinating to read (a little dry) and *very* well researched. Everything you have heard about this book from mainstream sources is probably wrong. It is not a piece of lurid speculation, but a very convincing corrective to "the historical record". ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:57:57 -0600 From: Chuck Scanland Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors At 04:37 PM 3/11/98 -0500, John Curtis wrote: > > I can recomend the following books as interesting, well-researched, > and definitely mind-opening: > > "The Strange Death of Vince Foster" - Christopher Ruddy > "The Dark Side of Camelot" - Seymour Hersh > > I'm about to crack open "The Reawakening of the Beast", > about rise of facist movements in U.S. and Europe. > > Check out the Hersh book, it is fascinating to read (a little > dry) and *very* well researched. Everything you have heard > about this book from mainstream sources is probably wrong. It is > not a piece of lurid speculation, but a very convincing corrective to > "the historical record". > > ciao, > > jcurtis > You're forgiven about the rant. Speaking of books: I'm about 3/4 through Evans-Pritchard's "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton." Although I've seen a lot of what he's written before, the book brings it all together. He puts the pieces in order and provides convincing documentation for much of it. All I can say is "Wow!" This is definitely a loaner for some of my less well informed associates. Highly recomended. Chuck - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:04:02 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors At 4:37 PM -0500 3/11/98, John Curtis wrote: >>PS It is time to -replace- some Republicrats! > > You know it is really time to just vote some of these > bastards out. Trent Lott wants to tax the damn snip > result is Statehood or try again later. I'm nominally > a Republican and there just seem to be fewer and fewer > I'm willing to vote for. > > Its status quo from the Republican's or diluted leftism from > the Democrats. > > Sorry about the rant. HA! I'll see that rant and -raise- ya one. I've been an area chair (minor functionary, not really a full appartchik ; ) in a Washington GOP district for years. I'm PCO now of the precinct I grew up in (high school and college years) and I'm as (or more) sick of 'em then you are. I always argue with people about not throwing out "rusty but repairable tools" (meaning, usually, NRA and GOP) but two months ago I started paying dues to the LP. I'm getting good and darned well ready to go buy me a new tool box. > I can recomend the following books as interesting, well-researched, > and definitely mind-opening: > > "The Strange Death of Vince Foster" - Christopher Ruddy > "The Dark Side of Camelot" - Seymour Hersh > I'm about to crack open "The Reawakening of the Beast", > about rise of facist movements in U.S. and Europe. > > Check out the Hersh book, it is fascinating to read (a little > dry) and *very* well researched. Everything you have heard > about this book from mainstream sources is probably wrong. It is > not a piece of lurid speculation, but a very convincing corrective to > "the historical record". Actually, it's gotten some good reviews. As well it should have (though half way through I had to stop temporarily to read Neil Smiths new novel : ) Don't know about you, but in the spot where he talks about a D.C. picture framing guy getting "large prints" to frame while Secret Service types watched I couldn't help but get hit with some pretty scary images. Nothing a little Pepto Bismol couldn't keep down though =: ( (eyuch!). Boyd > ciao, > > jcurtis > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:31:48 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors E.J. Totty wrote: > > Hi all, > > For all of you luck citizen/residents of the > State(?) of Washington, have I got news for you. > Our(?) liberal governor Locke has signed into > law the new requirement, that citizens are now > required to surrender their Social Security Number > (SSN) to the state agents to receive a hunting, or fishing, > or driving license. If it's any comfort to you ET, SSNs as the universal ID # is only new in WA. I first encountered it as a state policy in VA 2 decades ago, and frankly, I found it pretty convenient to remember just one number for all kinds of business. I suppose it's all in one's perspective. As a career military guy, my SSN was printed all over my service records for 25+ years for everyone to see and use in any unscrupulous way they cared to. No secrecy or privacy there. Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:43:25 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors John Curtis wrote: > > Gingrich thinks he's > going to run for President, when even I have to admit > he carries on like a loon sometimes. I suggest we all write Newt, tell him we love him, and plead with him to run for Pres. His stated intent is to resign as Speaker of the House to run (following Dole's conclusion in 96 that no one can do both - campaign for Pres and manage legislation in either house of congress). Newt's departure is absolutely necessary for the House to get back to its reform pledges - no more "roll over and play dead" tricks for Clinton & Co. Whether they would do so or not remains to be seen, but it can't happen as long as Newt is in charge and in his "I want to live in the White House" mode. A coup has already been tried and failed, so the only way to get rid of Newt now is to con him into thinking he's got a lot of support as a Pres candidate. It doesn't bother me to lie to Newt. He started it. Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:47:07 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors This is a hoot. I wonder if Newt planned it all? Help me run for prez so I'll get out of the House and stop annoying you there. Ho-ho-hee-hee, bd On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Skip Leuschner wrote: > I suggest we all write Newt, tell him we love him, and plead with > him to run for Pres. > > His stated intent is to resign as Speaker of the House to run > (following Dole's conclusion in 96 that no one can do both - > campaign for Pres and manage legislation in either house of congress). > Newt's departure is absolutely necessary for the House to get back to > its reform pledges - no more "roll over and play dead" tricks for > Clinton & Co. Whether they would do so or not remains to be seen, > but it can't happen as long as Newt is in charge and in his "I want > to live in the White House" mode. A coup has already been tried and > failed, so the only way to get rid of Newt now is to con him into > thinking he's got a lot of support as a Pres candidate. > > It doesn't bother me to lie to Newt. He started it. > > Skip. > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:54:21 -0800 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors At 04:37 PM 3/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>PS It is time to -replace- some Republicrats! > > You know it is really time to just vote some of these > bastards out. Trent Lott wants to tax the damn > Internet (he just doesn't get it). Gingrich thinks he's > going to run for President, when even I have to admit > he carries on like a loon sometimes. What's with this > Puerto Rico Statehood deal? Its rigged so that the only > result is Statehood or try again later. I'm nominally > a Republican and there just seem to be fewer and fewer > I'm willing to vote for. > > Its status quo from the Republican's or diluted leftism from > the Democrats. Then you ought to be a Libertarian. The depublicans and the remocrats all want to use the power of the government to force you and everybody else to do certain things; they only differ on WHAT they want you to do. The Libertarians want government to leave you alone. If you want that too, then vote Libertarian. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all - security, comfort and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society, but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free." Gibbons: "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Proud member of the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" since 1992! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:24:32 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Brad wrote: > > This is a hoot. I wonder if Newt planned it all? Help me run for > prez so I'll get out of the House and stop annoying you there. > Is it my fate (as one trained to think strategy) to be misinterpreted 100% of the time? I didn't say help him run for Pres. I said con him into doing it so we'll be rid of him as speaker. Fully understanding the anti-Newt sentiments, it seemed unnecessary to state the obvious - that we'd jerk the rug out from under him once he commits - a just payback for his lack of followup on his high minded "visions" and his now-Clintonized reform promises. Skip - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 98 18:49:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Newt needs a de-coke to remind him of his _own_ history. You might recall that he tried to get elected 4 or 6 times as a Liberal before he finally succeeded running as a Conservative. Some people just need to be smacked up side the head more than once, but it could also be a matter of what's in all those FBI files in the Whitehouse basement.....:-/ On Mar 11, Skip Leuschner wrote: >Brad wrote: >> >> This is a hoot. I wonder if Newt planned it all? Help me run for >> prez so I'll get out of the House and stop annoying you there. >> > >Is it my fate (as one trained to think strategy) to be misinterpreted >100% of the time? > >I didn't say help him run for Pres. I said con him into doing >it so we'll be rid of him as speaker. Fully understanding the >anti-Newt sentiments, it seemed unnecessary to state the obvious - >that we'd jerk the rug out from under him once he commits - a just >payback for his lack of followup on his high minded "visions" and >his now-Clintonized reform promises. > >Skip - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 00:34:12 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Skip Leuschner wrote: > Brad wrote: > > > > This is a hoot. I wonder if Newt planned it all? Help me run for > > prez so I'll get out of the House and stop annoying you there. > > > > Is it my fate (as one trained to think strategy) to be misinterpreted > 100% of the time? > > I didn't say help him run for Pres. I said con him into doing > it so we'll be rid of him as speaker. Fully understanding the > anti-Newt sentiments, it seemed unnecessary to state the obvious - > that we'd jerk the rug out from under him once he commits - a just > payback for his lack of followup on his high minded "visions" and > his now-Clintonized reform promises. Well I probably have a warped sense of humor but I think it would be amusing to let him run and go down in history as the biggest political disaster at least since his ideological fellow-traveller, George McGovern. bd > > Skip > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:01:05 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors > >I suggest we all write Newt, tell him we love him, and plead with >him to run for Pres. GOOD suggestion. More than one rampant ego has been removed by being promoted. He'd never win, and I don't trust the apparent front-runner in the GOP is G. Bush Jr., who is as big government as they come. I don't look to any of the Presidential aspirants to support any kind of reform. Forbes probably comes closest, don't know if "the American people" are ready for him. Let Newt self-destruct, he is clearly capable of it. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:08:08 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Skip, [...] A coup has already been tried and failed, so the only way to get rid of Newt now is to con him into thinking he's got a lot of support as a Pres candidate. [...] Sounds like a deal to me. Question is, who's going to be around to effectively challenge him - and win? ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:38:40 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors Skip, [...] As a career military guy, my SSN was printed all over my service records for 25+ years for everyone to see and use in any unscrupulous way they cared to. No secrecy or privacy there. [...] Been there too, done that also, in the same branch as you, Skip. My beef? I am not a number. I refuse to be tracked as some kind of beef, of a government reservation. I am going to undo this heinous little trap of feral federalism, and set it upon its head. These people in office have stepped on one set of toes too many. This creeping socialistic fascism is just too far out of hand to grin and bear it anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the gong is rung. ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:50:45 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors I'm going to bury my lead with two points that may seem to some to argue against concern about this. If you end up thinking I've written that it's no big thing please reread and or email me. As a freedom loving, politically active, NRA recruiting kind of guy, I often run into people of similar ilk. Well, OK not nearly often enough, but I -do- find them. Frequently, when I ask them to sign up for some org. fighting collectively for their rights I get the answer "I don't want to be on a list". At this point my inner geek snorts "shyeah! as if!" silently and to itself, and I prattle off a little about the lists they're most likely on. Usually, it ends up that they're perfectly willing (they claim with a flourish) to put their lives on the line for freedom in just the most -dramatic- ways, but still "don't want to be on a list". Fair enough, say I. And me and my inner geek trundle off. 'Course, it's nothin but dirt stupid to think you're taking a stand on freedom but can't afford to get into some NRA/GOA/JPFO/ACLU/WHATEVER database but I understand that lot's of people have a different take on things then I (go figure : ) The SS number is a lot like that. I think if you talk to most people about being required to carry federally mandated papers on their person in order to travel they'll look at you like a freak straight outta the twilight zone and ask you something about "whattayathink we're in Nazi Germany?". Well, as I think those gathered here know, it's the first steps down the road that determine the journeys end and complying with federal Identification Requirements for work/travel is IMHO pretty obviously one of those steps. No, I don't think the good folks forced (and I do mean forced) to reveal their SS number are skinhead wannabes, far from it. But, if you move obediently to far down that road you're going to find it hard to turn back against the yoke. So what am I saying here? What I'm saying here is; simply because you've revealed your SS number in the past does not mean you always have to or that its to late to restore general respect for privacy. The change is not going to harm you. And, in the end it could end up doing everyone a LOT of good. Boyd "not a number either" Nkeeland All opinions expressed are mine alone. At 9:38 AM -0700 3/12/98, E.J. Totty wrote: > Skip, > > > [...] > As a career military guy, my SSN was printed >all over my service records for 25+ years for everyone to >see and use in any unscrupulous way they cared to. > No secrecy or privacy there. > [...] > > Been there too, done that also, in the >same branch as you, Skip. > > > My beef? I am not a number. I refuse to >be tracked as some kind of beef, of a government >reservation. > > I am going to undo this heinous little >trap of feral federalism, and set it upon its head. > These people in office have stepped on >one set of toes too many. > This creeping socialistic fascism is >just too far out of hand to grin and bear it anymore. > > As far as I'm concerned, the gong is rung. >ET > > > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:54:58 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors [some deletions for brevity] > >As a freedom loving, politically active, NRA recruiting kind of guy, I >often run into people of similar ilk. Well, OK not nearly often enough, but >I -do- find them. Frequently, when I ask them to sign up for some org. >fighting collectively for their rights I get the answer "I don't want to be >on a list". At this point my inner geek snorts "shyeah! as if!" silently >and to itself, and I prattle off a little about the lists they're most >likely on. Usually, it ends up that they're perfectly willing (they claim >with a flourish) to put their lives on the line for freedom in just the >most -dramatic- ways, but still "don't want to be on a list". Fair enough, >say I. And me and my inner geek trundle off. 'Course, it's nothin but dirt >stupid to think you're taking a stand on freedom but can't afford to get >into some NRA/GOA/JPFO/ACLU/WHATEVER database but I understand that lot's >of people have a different take on things then I (go figure : ) > Boyd, I hear you. I personally don't care *what* lists I'm on. If it comes down to a matter of lists, I'm probably already on at least a few. Hell, If i were making lists, my computer would have caught me and put me on a couple of "maybe watch later" lists. In a real police state, approx. 1/2 the people are on lists and the other 1/2 are either scared stiff or informants. I don't really get excited about the SS thing, cause with good databases, you can correlate address, credit records, and every other damn thing and you don't *need* SS numbers to invade privacy. I think the leading edge in this battle is on the encryption front. Get it. Use it. Fight to keep it. Don't much believe the "when they come to take my blah, blah blah, I'll blah, blah, blah"... etcetera. crowd. When they come to take my blah blah blah, I will act polite, rollover, (and quietly switch gears). ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:57:04 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Skip Leuschner wrote: > Is it my fate (as one trained to think strategy) to be misinterpreted > 100% of the time? This has its advantages. You can propose a strategy in the clear, and the enemy will misinterpret it and and prepare a defense on that basis. :-) - ----- Harry Barnett - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:04:50 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net" Subject: RC5-6 cracking challenge Lend a hand! RSA has issued a challenge to crack the 64 bit RSA encryption. They are offering a $10000 prize to whomever cracks it. A group calling themselves distributed.net has set up a 'team' effort allowing people on the internet to use their spare "idle" CPU cycles to help in the cracking. They have servers set up which dispense blocks of keys to try and gather statistics. They have client software for almost all possible computers and OSes. You get ranked individually as well as the team you elect to join. You can join a "team" and have your stats get rolled into the team stats as well. There are several categories of teams including Political, Religious, OS/Platform Advocacy, Company, and others. I have joined a Libertarian team "Libertarians for Privacy". (team 1661) If and when distributed.net wins the money this is how they will divide it: the computer that cracks it gets $1000 (owner actually) the team of that person gets $1000 (or if no team computer owner gets $2000) distributed.net gets $2000 for upgrades to the systems for the next go around :-) a charity from their short list gets the $6000 left. The list includes EFF and other similar net oriented non-profits. This is an opportunity to help show that weaker encryption is too weak and also to help your favorite cause (advocacy) by joining a team Go to www.distributed.net I am running it on my Mac with MacOS, my Mac with Rhapsody, and my 2 NT boxes as well as on my FreeBSD box for my business (Shire.Net -- www.shire.net) and I have a login on my other ISP where I colocate and am using his time share unix box to run one (xmission.com). The thing uses only idle CPU time so you notice little or no performance hit on your computer. (Macs and non preemptive ones you can set up how much time it gets -- I am typing this on my Mac with almost no detriment to my use of the computer with the thing running in the background -- at night when I go home I up the priority of the process so that the Mac becomes sluggish but since I am home and not using it I don't care -- I reset it to make it more usable during the day when I am there -- still I am using the system 24hours a day to help crack the code. My NT boxes and unix boxes don't notice a thing with this running. I compile and debug all day on my NT box (even while playing Quake 2 it still computed a few) with it computing in the background. Anyway, lend a hand, help make a statement FOR STRONG encryption, and support you favorite advocay (political or otherwise -- Libertarians for Privacy is team 1661)! And it is fun to see how much your computer does (or could do) with all the spare cycles it has! Chad - --------------------------------------------------------------- Chad Leigh Pengar Enterprises, Inc and Shire.Net chad@pengar.com info@pengar.com info@shire.net Full service WWW services from just space to complete sites. Low cost virtual servers. DB integration. Tango. Email forwarding -- Permanent Email Addresses. POP3 and IMAP Email Accounts. mailto:info@shire.net for any of these. - --------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:36:54 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Subject: Re: The Killing of James McDougal (fwd) I don't know the author of this post, but it all sounds credible to me. bd - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:30:40 -0800 Subject: Re: The Killing of James McDougal At 2:00 PM 3/12/98, somebody wrote: >No matter what the government does, the public can be made to accept >it if it is slowly leaked a bit at a time. > >First it is announced that Whitewater defendent James McDougal, who is >critically ill with heart disease, suffered cardiopulmonary arrest in >prison and was pronounced dead after attempts to rescussitate him >failed. > >Next it is announced that James McDougal was in solitary confinement, >or to use the politically correct term, "administrative detention," at >the time he suffered his collapse, because he "refused to take a drug >test." It is announced that people in administrative detention are >supposedly safer because they have more staff contact, and are checked >every half hour by guards. Having myself had the experience of 'administrative detention' in prison, I commend you for your insight, which is extremely rare. People should understand a few basic things about solitary confinement and the American prison system. First of all, the minute you go into solitary, your life is hanging on a thread: 1) You are kept inside a cell with only forced air to breathe. 2) You are removed from the general population so that there are few witnesses to abuse and no 'credible' ones (i.e., non-prisoners) who would testify on your behalf. 3) You are stigmatized and treated like shit - prisoners in the general population wear one color and those in solitary wear a different color and the guards treat these two populations entirely differently 4) You are systematically intimidated by guards and warned that things could easily go from bad to worse if you continue to be 'uncooperative' - guards threaten that your water may be shut off or the toilet may stop working, etc. if you cause 'trouble', such as filing a complaint about abuse with the warden, or 'refusing' to 'voluntarily submit' to blood, urine testing and so forth. When I was in solitary at a Pennsylvania state prison, after about 2 days I started to have trouble breathing. Then I noticed that other prisoners were also having athsma attacks constantly. In the middle of the night they would be screaming for a guard. Then, eventually a nurse would come and give them an inhaler and sedatives to 'calm them down'. I saw a pulminary specialist after getting out (I was only there for 5 days) who concluded that there was either chemical or biological contamination of the ventilation system. The fact is that the prison officials do not care. The purpose of solitary is intimidation and torture. Sorry to put it so bluntly. You may not believe me but I speak from experience. Although I was not beaten, I knew other prisoners who were. When I got out, I intended to file suit for these and many other abuses including robbery and other civil rights abuses but no lawyer wanted to touch the case unless I had bruises or cuts or something since it would by the word of me (and I was never convicted of a crime) against the police/guards, who all cover each others asses. Any lawyer who bucks the system is at a severe handicap trying to work within that system and his business will suffer, unless he specializes in going against the system and unless he only takes cases where physical evidence is enough to convince the idiot jurors and corrupt judges that they cannot look the other way in a particular case. This was my experience after only 5 days in prison and $6,000 in legal fees over a minor traffic incident - just the tip of the iceberg. Any lawyer, cop or judge who works within this so-called 'justice' system must know much, much more. My lawyer knew much more about the abuses but he didn't care. The judge didn't care. To these people you are just a piece of meat who is a 'billable unit' if you are in prison and a 'potential threat' if you know about their crimes and remain free. They are all just 'following orders' or 'doing their jobs' or 'sending their kids to college'. That's the American Way. >The last time McDougal couldn't produce urine for 2 hours, they threw >him in solitary for 7 days. > >So here we have a cardiac patient, with severe damage to his heart, >and synthetic replacements for both carotid arteries and his >descending aorta, on a large amount of medication, whose kidneys shut >down, who is thrown in a cell alone, where he later suffers cardiac >arrest, and no one sees him in time. > >I call that murder. Absolutely. They wanted to take my blood and, when I refused to sign the form saying I 'voluntarily' agreed to let them do it, they threatened me with more abuse and even threatened me with abuse if I were to even mention the abuse that I was undergoing. I could go on. You think torture only happens in places like Iraq or Burma? The USA has a higher rate of incarceration than any other country on this planet. Does anybody know the reality of the word 'prison' and what happens there? Either you are awake or dreaming. Whenever I see the term "law enforcement" it reminds me of the cop who stole my hundred dollar bill and the other cops who told me point blank that they "didn't give a damn about my rights" and that I had been "watching too much TV". When I see the words "law", "lawyer", "professor of law", "prosecutor" or "judge" I think about the sedated prisoners gasping for air in the middle of the night. And in most cases, there is not a single victim to their alleged 'crime'. Encryption is one tiny ray of hope that we have to protect ourselves against a system that is overwhelmingly evil. It really saddens me that anyone would believe somebody who assures us that the "legitimate needs of law enforcement" requires that the cops hold the keys to our communications and that we should trust them to "strictly abide by the rules of law", etc. Hopefully, as more people go to prison and experience what I did there will be fewer people who believe such lies. But if history is any guide, Americans probably needs to suffer a lot more economically before the tide will turn. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:10:08 -0800 From: "Schwartz, Cap" Subject: RE: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors I'm lovin' it. caP > -----Original Message----- > From: Boyd Kneeland [SMTP:boyd@seanet.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 12, 1998 11:51 AM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com; Skip Leuschner > Cc: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: An Open Letter to My American Neighbors > > > The change is not going to harm you. And, in > the end it could end up doing everyone a LOT of good. Boyd "not a > number > either" Nkeeland > All opinions expressed are mine alone. > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:43:34 -0600 From: gfelbeck@wyoming.com (George T. Felbeck, Jr.) Subject: RSA address error? Sir: Fri 3/13 12:30 MST I have tried several times to access the address for the RSA challenge that you gave in your message this morning: www.distributed.net and have been unable to access it. I get a "too many redirections" error message. Is that address correct or I have failed to add something else (other than the http://, of course.)? Many thanks for your assistance. George T. Felbeck, Jr. gfelbeck@wyoming.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 23:30:15 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Subject: bye, bye posse C. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Items from Drug Reform Coalition NET - ---- 7. BILL IN OKLAHOMA WOULD ALLOW THE GOVERNOR TO CALL OUT THE GUARD IN DRUG CASES HB 2596 in Oklahoma would allow the governor to order the Oklahoma National Guard to assist law enforcement officers in drug matters. National guard members would have to volunteer for the duty, which could take them beyond Oklahoma's boundaries. Once assigned to duty under the bill, National Guard members would be on federally funded status and could be helping federal, state or local law enforcement agencies. The bill has passed the House and is awaiting committee assignment in the state Senate. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 23:39:19 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Subject: contributions for Boundary County / (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Finished my homework re. checking on the fund for the Boundary County (ID) Prosecutor's Office in the prosecution of the federal agents involved in the Weaver case. There is indeed such a fund and donations are being gratefully accepted. The prosecutor's office has not solicited public donations in this or any other case and will not ask for any. But their opponent has deep pockets (ours) and they do not, so every bit helps. Checks or money orders should be made payable to BOUNDARY COUNTY PROSECUTOR"S OFFICE and sent to: Boundary County Prosecutor's Office P.O. Box 1148 Bonners Ferry, ID 83805 I called the office at 208-267-7545 to verify this information, and had a very brief but cordial chat with the staffer who answered the phone. They are doing all of us a great and unappreciated legal service by going forward with this case, and they know it. I have heard of legal defense funds but never a prosecution assistance fund. We do indeed live in interesting times. Donations should be made ASAP as things are moving forward with this case. Please pass this along to anyone you know who might be willing to help. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:02:32 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: contributions for Boundary County / (fwd) Brad, Thanks for forwarding the info. Check's in the mail. Regards, Skip. Brad wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Finished my homework re. checking on the fund for the Boundary County > (ID) Prosecutor's Office in the prosecution of the federal agents > involved in the Weaver case. There is indeed such a fund and donations > are being gratefully accepted. The prosecutor's office has not solicited > public donations in this or any other case and will not ask for any. But > their opponent has deep pockets (ours) and they do not, so every bit > helps. > > Checks or money orders should be made payable to BOUNDARY COUNTY > PROSECUTOR"S OFFICE and sent to: > > Boundary County Prosecutor's Office > P.O. Box 1148 > Bonners Ferry, ID 83805 > > I called the office at 208-267-7545 to verify this information, and had > a very brief but cordial chat with the staffer who answered the phone. > They are doing all of us a great and unappreciated legal service by > going forward with this case, and they know it. I have heard of legal > defense funds but never a prosecution assistance fund. We do indeed live > in interesting times. > > Donations should be made ASAP as things are moving forward with this > case. Please pass this along to anyone you know who might be willing to > help. > > - - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #85 ************************