From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #129 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Sunday, May 10 1998 Volume 02 : Number 129 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 98 12:34:07 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Another poll, wiht less than 24 hrs left! (fwd) On May 7, Bob Mueller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "Poll Ends: 5-08-98" http://www.teleport.com/poll/poll3.cgi Let's hit this one hard, and quick! In recent years, we've seen an increase in violent shootings, many involving children and teenagers. It has been argued that the lack of gun control contributes to the problem, as teenagers find easy access to weapons. Others argue that it is the family's responsibility to raise their children and instill values in them. What do you think is the major cause of these shootings? 3705 votes as of 1400 EDT: Lack of sufficient gun control: 409 11% Lack of sufficient firearm education: 112 03% Parent's need to impress better social values on their children: 2246 60% A combination of all of the above: 129 03% It's due to other factors: 88 02% There isn't an increased problem, the media is hyping this issue: 721 20% (BTW, I rounded the % to integers) ______________________________________ Bob Mueller Second Amendment Research Network - http://www.infinet.com/~bmueller/Index.html D, 6/52 ADA Alumni Association Commander http://www.gather.com/d652ada/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 98 12:35:26 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: rkba-list: Hunter Ed. Budget Cuts (fwd) For those of us who live in the People's Republic of Washatonia, Governor Gary "China Money" Locke, is at it again..... "On May 7, jwaldron@halcyon.com wrote:" [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I received this message from a concerned hunter education instructor today. I'm passing it along for your information while I dig out further specifics to fight this. Joe Waldron <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> I am contacting you after a weekend Hunter-Education in-service training session with Tom Brown of DoFW. The situation described below is both real and immediate, and the outlook is grave indeed. With out both political and financial help, the current successful hunter education program in Washington State will become a hollow travesty, maintained simply for the purpose of securing Pittman Robertson funds for the state's coffers. Please feel free to edit, cut slice and check on the below information, and GET IT OUT TO THE MEMBERSHIP!! POST IT. PRINT IT. GET THEIR ATTENTION! This is a real back-door attack on gun and hunting rights in the state. If we cannot train young hunters in a viable safety program, it will result in a rise in hunting accidents. This will give the anti's all the clout they need to ban hunting in the state completely. I have no doubt this is a part of Locke & Co.'s agenda. With the recent (much publicized) shortfall in the Dep't Fish and Wildlife's budget, and the resultant "fix" proposed by the Locke appointed commission, Governor Locke's anti-hunting agenda is in full swing. The Hunter Education program, supposedly funded by Pittman-Robertson funds from the Federal Government, has essentially been given the axe. Money supposed to be GUARANTEED for use in the Hunter Education program under P-R are being rechanneled, and the program GUTTED. Through some legal convolutions known only to liberal anti-hunters/anti-gunners, this is apparently permitted, as the funds are to be channeled to 'habitat enhancement'. (Incidentally, P-R is also supposed to fund RANGE development & enhancement too....!) What this means, in the short and long run, is that nearly the entire permanent staff (4) within the department's Hunter Ed. program will be cut, leaving ONE person (Mik) to do the whole job. This is, of course, not feasible. The end result will be a lack of decent training for young hunters, and a resultant rise in firearms-related hunting accidents. How typical: this program, taught primarily by unpaid volunteers throughout the state, (some 700 of us) with NO FINANCIAL INTEREST OR REMUNERATION, is the one DoFW program that is demonstrably working well. Our percentage of firearms-related hunting accidents in Washington state has dropped to virtually nil, and the program has, to my knowledge, not wasted a dime in the 6 years I have been aboard as a volunteer. So, of course Locke's liberals decide it is the ideal program to cut. Cut a total of over $70,000 (fisheries education, by the way, was cut a total of $5,000 for the same period. Ever seen anyone accidentally shot with a fishing rod??). What does this mean to you? Well, for one thing, it means you will not be as safe in the woods or the duck blind. Eventually, it will result in unnessary hunting accidents, which will turn public opinion even further against hunting. And if the anti's can restrict or eliminate hunting in the state, how long do you think you will keep you firearms once this 'legitimate' purpose for them is gone? We know the 2nd ammendment " ain't about duck hunting", but how many of the public know that?? This is YOUR fight! What can you do?? Two things can be done RIGHT AWAY. First: Financial support is needed NOW for Hunter Education. If funds are donated to DoFW Hunter Education program, SPECIFICALLY EARMARKED FOR THAT PURPOSE, the Dep't cannot use them for any other program. Immediate help will keep the program healthy. Send your $$, even a single DOLLAR apiece from each menber would help. This program has been getting by on on very little for a long time. Send your donations to Dep't of Fish and Wildlife: HIUNTER EDUCATION, ATTN: TOM BROWN. MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO WA. HUNTER EDUCATION PROGRAM, and note on them FOR HUNTER EDUCATION USE ONLY!!!! This program has been good to the hunters of Washington state...it's time for paybacks. Second: Storm the gates of the "Puzzle Palace" in Olympia. Call or write the Governor's office, the Wildlife commission, and your local representatives, and DEMAND that the minimal funding that was allowed so vital a program as Hunter Education be fully restored. Hunter Ed is the ONLY SINGLE state administered firearms safety program, and it has saved countless lives and mishaps. The statistics bear this out fully: the incidence of accidents prior to Hunter Ed was many times the current rate. MAKE THIS AN ISSUE!!!! Locke & Co have gutted every piece of pro-gun legislation they could..here is a chance to take the issue back with public support. This is a good and vital program, and should be fully funded. But it won't be unless YOU get out your pen and write, or get on the phone and call. We did it for 676, and we can do it for hunter education. Remember the definition of Politics: 'poli' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning little bloodsuckers....if we make enough noise about this program they will have to go suck their blood from some really bloated program, and restore Hunter Education's funding. This is a worthwhile program, and deserves both our funds and our support. Please spread this word among all gun owners and hunters....Cross post at will wherever needed. <---- End Forwarded Message ----> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 98 13:49:43 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Looky here at this!!!! (fwd) And another one bites the dust! :-) On May 7, RHill@MICKEY.GC.WHECN.EDU wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > ---------- > From: Letters to the > President[SMTP:letters@InetGate1.Wal-Mart.Com] > Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:13 PM > To: Hill, Roy > > Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns with Wal-Mart > regarding a local fundraiser by the Missourians Against Handgun > Violence (MAHV). > > After reviewing this matter further, we have canceled the event and > it will not be rescheduled. > > We appreciate your interest. > > > Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 06:39:59 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Proven Solutions to ENDING School Shootings Good interview! Tom >Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:52:45 -0500 >From: "Chris W. Stark" >Reply-To: "Chris W. Stark" >To: email-subscribers@JPFO.org >Subject: Proven Solutions to ENDING School Shootings >X-Mailer: Chris W. Stark's registered AK-Mail 3.0b [eng] > > ****JPFO e-mail Alert!**** > > Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. > Aaron Zelman - Executive Director > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 > http://www.JPFO.org > Against-Genocide@JPFO.org > > 05/09/98 > -------- > > >EDITOR'S NOTE: This exclusive interview, copyright (c) JPFO, puts >to rest the ongoing debate of how to deal with the ever increasing >violence and bloodshed in America's schools, by showing proven >solutions (not just theories) to the problem. Rest assured the >answer is not in more "gun control", as the gun prohibitionists >would want to brainwash America into believing. In fact, the >problem IS gun control. > >The initial interview prints out to about 4 pages, so we felt it >would be better for you to go to the actual web site to read this >important interview with Dr. David Th. Schiller. If at all possible, >do not put off reading this all important interview. > > >The interview is found at: http://www.jpfo.org/school.htm > > >If you have no way in viewing this interview by a web browser, and >you wish to read it, I will be glad to e-mail you the interview upon >your request. Remember, it is about 4 pages long when printed out. > > >Be well, > >**************************************************************** >Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) >Chris W. Stark - Director of Electronic Communications >2874 So. Wentworth Ave. >Milwaukee, WI 53207 >Ph. (414) 769-0760 >Fax (414) 483-8435 >Against-Genocide@JPFO.org > >Visit our Web Page at: http://www.JPFO.org > >MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. > >"America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership." >**************************************************************** >Copyright (c) 1998, JPFO >Republication permitted provided this article & attribution >is left intact in its original state. >**************************************************************** > > TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: > > subscribe@JPFO.org > >...and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". >**************************************************************** > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 09:06:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: IP: OKC-Key Seeks Congressional Bomb Hearing (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:02:02 -0500 From: believer@telepath.com To: believer@telepath.com Subject: IP: OKC-Key Seeks Congressional Bomb Hearing Source: Daily Oklahoman Legislator Seeks Congressional Bomb Hearing 05/07/1998 By Diana Baldwin and Judy Kuhlman Staff Writers State Rep. Charles Key and six members of his independent investigation committee will be in Washington, D.C., on Friday to present their views about what happened in the Oklahoma City bombing. Key, R-Oklahoma City, is lobbying for a congressional hearing on the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing. The explosion resulted in 168 deaths. The group is scheduled to meet Friday with Paul Marcone, chief of staff for U.S. Rep. Jim Traficant, D-Ohio. "Congressman Traficant has always had an interest in the Oklahoma City bombing and issues surrounding the security of federal buildings," Marcone said. "I've spoken with Representative Key on several occasions. We are just going to sit down and listen to what he has to say and share information with him." Traficant is the ranking minority member of the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, a subcommittee that oversees the federal General Services Administration, which governs all federal buildings. Key said he has no appointments with members of the Oklahoma congressional delegation or anyone else. However, he said he hopes to schedule other meetings while he is in Washington. Key said he and his Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee have a list of 75 people they want to meet with in Washington. The state lawmaker has been critical of the federal government since shortly after the April 19, 1995, bombing. He helped spearhead the petition drive that called for a grand jury investigation. Grand jurors have been meeting in secret since June 30, 1997. They have heard testimony from 107 witnesses, many of whom Key suggested. Their findings have not been made public. Meanwhile, three members of the Oklahoma congressional delegation believe it is too early to begin soliciting a Washington investigation with a county grand jury still seated. None of the six Oklahoma delegates or their aides have talked to Key about a congressional probe, they told The Oklahoman. U.S. Rep. Frank Lucas, R-Cheyenne, whose district includes the site where the federal building stood, said he and Key have never discussed a congressional hearing. "We should, I believe, before we take any additional steps, wait until that grand jury process is completed, and they've made their reports or offer their findings. That's following procedures," Lucas said. U.S. Rep. Steve Largent, R-Tulsa, and Sen. Don Nickles, R-Ponca City, agree. Sen. Jim Inhofe, R-Tulsa, said he is confident law enforcement officials and prosecutors will follow additional leads. "Unless a person has personal knowledge of useful information, it is probably best that they stay out of it," Inhofe said. "This is what I have tried to do." Key has been funding his independent investigation with private donations. So far, more than $135,000 have been collected to operate Key's Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee. Other committee members making the trip are Jim Grace, V.Z. Lawton, George Wallace, Cate McCauley and Dale Phillips. Roger Charles, a freelance reporter from Alexandria, Va., and committee member, will assist the group, Key said. Key said he will return to Oklahoma on Sunday. The Oklahoma House of Representatives is in session throughout the month. At least three other members of the group will remain in Washington, D.C., until Wednesday or Thursday, the lawmaker said. Expenses for Key and the committee members will be paid with private donations. The lawmaker said he did not know how much the trip would cost. - ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. - ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:47:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: IP: Another Botched Police Raid (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 07:22:00 -0500 From: believer@telepath.com To: believer@telepath.com Subject: IP: Another Botched Police Raid Source: New York Times May 8, 1998 Another Police Raid on a Home Yields No Drugs, but Much Trauma By MICHAEL COOPER NEW YORK -- Police officers broke down the door of a Brooklyn apartment, guns drawn, tossed a stun grenade into the front hall and handcuffed everyone inside, including a mentally retarded 18-year-old girl who was taking a shower. They were looking for guns and drugs. They found only a terrified family. "I thought America was invaded, that some force, a foreign force, came to kill us," said Basil Shorter, 62, a retired baker, describing the police raid of his Crown Heights apartment May 1 that turned his family's morning routine into a harrowing confrontation. "My family was helpless. I was helpless." Police officials insisted Thursday that the officers had done nothing wrong and that the raid was done by the book. They said a confidential informant told them that drugs and guns were being sold from the Shorter apartment and from another apartment on the third floor of the building, at 1602 Union St., and that a judge authorized and signed a search warrant for both. A gun and small amounts of drugs were found in the third floor apartment, they said. But the raid on the Shorter residence was the fourth in a series of high-profile cases since late February in which search warrants either failed to yield any contraband or were carried out at the wrong location. As drug dealing has increasingly moved inside from the streets, narcotics officers have come to rely more and more on the search warrants in their efforts to stamp out the drug trade. Critics contend that some no-knock search warrants -- in which officials rely on the word of a confidential informant to obtain the warrant -- violate people's constitutional right against unreasonable searches and seizures. The warrants authorize police to break down doors with battering rams in their search for drugs. And they worry that cases like the Shorters', in which a family is traumatized but no drugs are found, could make the city liable to pay millions of dollars in damages in civil suits. "These types of aggressive actions hold the potential for enormous recoveries from the city from future administrations," said City Councilman Sheldon Leffler, who chairs the council's public safety committee. "It's the next regime that will have to pay the piper. I think there is a need for tightening up the procedures." The Shorter family retained a lawyer, Harvey Weitz, who has won a number of multi-million dollar jury verdicts in the past. Weitz said Thursday that he would sue for $200 million in damages. "Something's wrong with police procedures if families like the Shorters go through this kind of terror," Weitz said. According to police and the Shorters, the raid took place at 6:15 a.m. Shorter had just bathed and his daughter Phebi, 18, was in the shower. His wife, Cecelia, 47, a home health attendant, and younger daughter, Isis, 14, were also in the apartment. Suddenly, the door burst open and police threw in a stun grenade, which exploded. Police use such a grenade to disorient the apartment's occupants. In this case, their informant had told them that the apartment was watched by armed guards 24 hours a day. Mrs. Shorter said that she was worried that Phebi, who is mentally retarded, would misunderstand orders and get shot. "I said, 'She's mentally retarded, please don't shoot, please don't shoot,' Mrs. Shorter recalled Thursday. She said police covered Phebi with a robe and handcuffed her but did not heed her warning that her daughter was menstruating and needed a sanitary pad. She said they only gave her one after she was visibly bleeding. At 7:30, police freed the Shorters when they did not find any drugs. They left the apartment and asked the building superintendent to fix the door at police expense. "This is the fourth case in recent months that I know of," Weitz said. "And I've never once seen or heard anything from the City of New York which says we're going to re-evaluate how we execute these warrants." The other recent cases include: - -- On Feb. 27 police raided the Bronx apartment of Ellis Elliot. Elliot, who thought he was being robbed when his door was opened, took a gun and fired a shot. Police then sprayed at least 26 bullets into the room. No one was injured; no drugs were found. Officials later said that that they had hit the wrong apartment. - -- That same day the police broke down the door of another Bronx apartment only to find an 18-year-old woman who was eight months pregnant napping with her two children. No drugs were found. Police officials later said that they had hit the right apartment, but believed the drugs had been moved. - -- On March 18 the police raided the apartment of a family in Brooklyn only to find a grandmother watching television with her daughter and grandson. Police officials later acknowledged that it was the wrong apartment: the officers had apparently misunderstood the directions from undercover detectives. Chief Martin O'Boyle of the Organized Crime Control Bureau defended both police procedures and the raid on the Shorter house. He said that as drug dealing has moved indoors, his bureau has increased the number of search warrants it executes, to 2,900 last year. In the past, he said, a year in which 500 warrants were executed was considered busy. And in about 85 percent of the raids last year, O'Boyle said, police found what they were looking for. In some cases, the police send undercover officers to make what they call "controlled buys" after receiving tips about drug and gun selling from confidential informants. They did not in this case. They did follow other procedures, though, including having a sergeant look at the apartment doors with the informant to make sure they were the correct addresses. Talking of the information supplied by the confidential informant in the Shorter case, O'Boyle said: "What we believe at this point is that the information was good. Why would our source give us bad information on one apartment and good information on the second apartment in the same building?" And privately, several investigators said that drug dealers sometimes figur out ways to operate from the apartments of the most unlikely people, sometimes without their knowledge. Shorter, who was born in Jamaica and lived in England before he became a U.S. citizen, wept as he recalled the sense of shame of seeing his neighbors watch a police raid in his home. "I was so embarrassed," he said. "Everyone passed in the hallway, looking at my house." His daughter Phebi, who talked and sang to herself during the news conference, looked up at her father and said, "He's crying." Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company - ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. - ----------------------- ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:58:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: IP: Thuggery (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 10:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Maher, Steve (SD-MS)" To: Ignition-Point@majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: Thuggery From the Wall Street Journal Friday, March 27th 1998 op-ed President Clinton is lucky most Americans lack the time to don hip waders and trudge through the hundreds of pages of sworn testimony in the Paula Jones case. They'd learn the case is about sex only in the sens that "Titanic" is about an iceberg. What's really scary is the progression from sex to thuggery. We don't use that word lightly. The statements made under oath in the case describe a President presiding over a culture that wields rewards and threats like the mob, at least in effect if not in degree. Those who play ball get jobs, but those who break with the family find themselves.. threatened and their reputations shredded. Take Kathleen Willey. When she kept quiet about whatever happened to her in the Oval Office, she got a paying White House job, a USO board seat and exotic trips with official delegations for which she was unqualified. But once she said she'd been groped by Mr. Clinton, she became the target of nasty stories. She is now portrayed as a gold-digger who fawned on the President, played a part in sleazy land deals with her late husband and lied about a pregnancy while sleeping with a British soccer coach. Never mind that she told her story on TV for free, has never been implicated in her husband's financial troubles and that the source of the soccer tale is her enemy. "They're trying to make me look like a wacko," Ms. Willey now says. The Willey treatment fits the patten that shows up throughout the Paula Jones documents. For example, Arkansas state troper supervisor Buddy Young got a nice FEMA post in Dallas under Mr. Clinton. Mr. Young was once caught on videotape discussing with Bruce Lindsey, the President's confidant/fixer, how to respond to charges by other state troopers that they'd escorted Mr. Clinton to female liaisons. This is the same Buddy Young who, according to trooper Larry Patterson's deposition under oath, said, "Larry, if you know What's good for you, if you know what's if you know what's best for you and your family, keep your mouth shut." A second trooper, Roger Perry, also says under penalty of perjury that Mr. Young told him, "Is it true what I hear that you're going to go public with sexual stories on Bill Clinton' And I said, 'Well, Buddy, we hadn't made our mind up yet.' I said. 'I don't know if I will or not.' Then he said, 'Well, let me give you some advice. If you do, you will be destroyed, and I represent the president of the United States,' exactly what the man said." A third trooper, L.D. Brown, adds under oath that he was threatened by Clinton friend Skip Rutherford: "He said, .. 'Well, L.D., you know, you have to go to sleep at night, lay your head down on the pillow and live with yourself, and you don't want your credit card receipts all over the front page, do you?' And I really - you know, that upset me. I took that as not such a veiled threat." These are of course only allegations, though given under oath. Mr. Young denies them, while Mr. Rutherford admits having "educated" Mr. Brown about media attention, but denies pressuring him to keep quiet. THey also eerily jibe with the stories of the women who went public about Mr. Clinton. Gennifer Flowers now says under oath that she was told to deny, deny, deny. Mr. Clinton now admits under oath to at least one sexual meeting with Ms. Flowers - something he denied when not under oath in 1992. More ominously, Dolly Kyle Browning says under pain of perjury that she was warned by her own brother, who worked on the 1992 Clinton campaign, that "We will destroy you." In fear, she says, she agreed with Mr. Clinton, "through the intermediaries" of her brother and Bruce Lindsey, "not to tell the true story about our relationship if he would not tell any lies about me." This is the same Bruce Lindsey who is now invoking exectuive privilege so he needn't disclose what he knows under oath. Another woman, a former Miss Arkansas named Elizabeth Ward, is said by friend Judy Stokes under oath to have broken down in tears talking about Mr. Clinton's unwanted advances against her. Ms. Ward is reportedly abroad out of subpoena-range. Linda Tripp says under oath she was advised by Monica Lewinsky to "deny everything". And Ms. Willey has said under oath that Democratic operative and Clinton friend Nathan Landow talked to her about her testimony. Newspaper accounts say he urged her to keep quiet. There's more. One of the Jones documents is a sworn affidavit from a John B. Thompson, recounting what he was... told by a Samuel Jones (no relation), of Mr. Clinton's former Little Rock law firm: "He said that his job was to see what the women had to say, to determine whether they were a 'threat' to Governor Clinton, and 'to do whatever it takes to make sure that they did not say anything or do anything to prove that Clinton is a womanizer'" Now, maybe one or more of these people are lying. Maybe one or more are willing to risk perjury and potential prison to pursue a personal vendetta angainst Bill Clinton. But are all of them lying? Are they all part of the same conspiracy? What's frightening is that their stories fit the pattern of the Clinton years - the pattern of a Presidency that tried to ruin Billy Dale merely to control the White House travel office. He was fired, then indicted: a jury acquitted him in two hours. This is the same Presidency that rummaged through 800 FBI files. And the same Presidency whose Senate defenders searched through "deleted" pesonal computer files to smear the motives of Jean Lewis, the federal investigator who named the Clintons as witnesses in Whitewater criminal referrals. This is ugly stuff, if even half of it is true. It shows how character matters. Reckless sex leads to threats and intimidation, and abuse of the powers of high office ... is not far behind. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 98 12:10:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Long Island Advertizers On May 9, nfp3@nw.opp.psu.edu wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Anyone wanting to contact MCI about "LONG ISLAND INCIDENT" advertising here is a source. May not be where they want you to call or email but hey that's life. Neal MCI Media Relations Reporters with the news media may contact MCI's Corporate News Bureau at 1-800-644-NEWS or 202-887-3000. We may also be reached via e-mail at news-mci@mci.com *************************************************************************** * Or else how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, * *unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.* * JESUS CHRIST---Matthew 12:29 * *************************************************************************** The more people are dependent upon government, the more controlled they are...Madeline Albright 3/20/98 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 98 12:12:26 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Viagra Control (fwd) On May 9, BludyRed wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This appeared in my mailbox and I thought I would share it with the list. I have no idea of the original source. Regards, Dennis Baron ------------------------------------------------------------- VIAGRA, THUMBS UP / OR DOWN? Better get Sara Broady, and Handheld Control, Inc. to work on this one right away! If there is anything more dangerous on our streets than the dreaded firearm, it has to be the increased number of concealed erections that will be frequenting public places. In addition to this, unlike firearm crimes, penal crimes will be more prevalent in rural areas, endangering ungulates and other domestics as well as the human population. Next at risk is the suburbs, with the lowest percentages of occurrences in the urban areas. Sara, here is what I would like to suggest: First, anyone requesting a prescription to this vile drug should appear before a county board to plead their case for a need to indulge. Second, there should be a minimum of a fifteen day waiting period, not only as a cooling off period, but in order to perform a background check to determine if the applicant has ever been accused of / or convicted of harassment, molestation or rape. Any other possible sex related deviations that you can come up with, may be included. Third, if nothing detrimental is uncovered in this evaluation, and the prescriber can meet the requirements of the research cost, $100.00, and the minimum age of 55, and it has not been a 'Bad Hair Day' for the board, he shall be issued a probationary slip. With this he may obtain a limited dosage prescription from his family doctor in order to enable him to engage in the required training processes. Considering him to meet all of the stipulations, and still remaining an up- standing citizen, he will be allowed to purchase a permit for only an additional $100.00, which must be renewed annually. If these restrictions do not control availability of this vile drug, I am sure that Mr. Clinton will come up with a solution for the Government to save us, whether it will be Mid-Night Ball Banging, or putting an extra 100,000 prostitutes on the streets. The latter can only be considered as a valid proposal, if Clinton does not reserve more than a dozen for personal consumption. If this drug proves effective there are even more benefits than are readily apparent. I understand that the 'World Wildlife Fund' is presently researching the impact that the use of this drug will have on saving endangered wildlife such as the White Rhino and the Bengal Tiger, whose parts have previously been so much in demand as aphrodisiacs around the world. Possibly when a monetary value for this savings has been established, both 'Handheld Control, Inc.' and the DNC will be in for a meaningful contribution. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 98 02:37:32 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: United Nations -- gun control on agenda of G-8 summit (fwd) (fwd) On May 9, Tom Walls wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: bjp To: sa-gunner List , Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:13:42 -0600 From: "CILA" Subject: URGENT ALERT For Immediate Release May 6/98 The United Nations, in cooperation with various NGOs and governments, has managed to get gun control on the agenda of the G-8 summit beginning Friday, May 8/98. Canada (Lloyd Axworthy) will take the lead role in this initiative to have all G-8 countries enter BINDING agreements on gun control. Call, e-mail, fax or write your respective MPs NOW!! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:10:00 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: "When They Come for You" >Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:40:33 -0400 >From: E Pluribus Unum >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network >Subject: "When They Come for You" > >Tuesday, May 5, 1998 >Copyright =A9 1998 The New York Times >--------------------------------------------- >"When They Come for You" > >By Fulton Huxtable > >The immoral and reckless indifference, of so much of the American >public, to statists obliterating freedom in one area after another >brings to mind the quote attributed to Protestant minister Martin >Neimoller, who reflected upon Germany=92s fall to the Nazis:=20 > >"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn=92t speak up >because I wasn=92t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn=92t >speak up because I wasn=92t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, >and I didn=92t speak up because I wasn=92t a trade unionist. Then they came >for Catholics, and I didn=92t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then >they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." > >If you are like most Americans, you didn=92t bother to notice that when >statists came for the owners of "public buildings," violating the >property rights of these owners, that, in principle, your rights were >undermined, undermining what you may do in your own home. You didn=92t >speak out because you are not an owner of one of these "public >buildings."=20 > >When statists came for the owners of tobacco companies, infringing on >their right of ownership and restricting their freedom of speech, you >didn=92t speak out because you are not one of the owners of a tobacco >company or you are not a smoker or you consider smoking to be an evil >which must be wiped out at all costs, even at the cost of your freedom, >your freedom to follow your own judgment.=20 > >When they persecuted and imprisoned innocent individuals for "abuse," >you didn=92t speak out because you were not the one being persecuted. When >they imprisoned those individuals for disturbing the "wetlands," you >said nothing because you thought it would never affect you, oblivious to >the fact that your backyard is a "wetland."=20 > >When they searched, without warrant, the private property of business >owners, you said nothing because these were only business owners and you >are not a business owner. When they seized property without due process, >you said nothing because it wasn=92t your property being seized, even >though it could be and will be tomorrow.=20 > >When they imposed arbitrary fines, you said nothing because you were not >the one victimized.=20 > >When they kicked in the door of the home of someone suspected of drug >possession and killed the innocent owner, you said nothing because your >loved one was not the one killed and because you believe anything goes >when it comes to fighting drug use.=20 > >When they drove an innocent man to suicide in their attempt to collect >taxes never owed them, you said nothing because the victim was not >someone you knew and valued.=20 > >When they bullied television network executives into accepting a ratings >system, you said nothing because you are not an owner of a television >station.=20 > >When they, in the name of children, came for the producers of children=92s >television programs, making it criminal to express certain ideas, you >did not speak out because you believe anything can be sacrificed in the >name of children, even though these children will not be free when they >become adults.=20 > >When they suspended the right to trial by jury for accused "Deadbeat >Dads," you said nothing because you are not a deadbeat dad.=20 > >When they passed legislation further regulating doctors, Even though you >oppose socialized medicine, you said nothing, dismissing it as only a >"small step," perhaps hoping it would not affect you in your lifetime, >hoping that "somehow" it would not result in socialized medicine.=20 > >When they got you to accept the idea that your money is not yours, that >they may forcibly take "your" money and dictate to you how much you may >keep for your own needs, you said nothing because you consider taxation >to be a necessary evil. When they came for the online news >organizations, you said nothing because you are not a user of online >services.=20 > >And when they and their evil finally come for you=97and they will, if >America continues down this road to hell, will there be enough left who >will care about your plight, will there be anyone left to speak out for >you, to defend you? You already know the answer: there won=92t be, if this >country continues to sink into the cesspool of statism, if most >Americans continue to maintain an indifferent silence about freedom=92s >decline. And if you are one of those who have said nothing, then your >silence and the logic of your bad premises will finally avenge >themselves on you in practice=85when they finally come for >you [end] >--=20 >****************************************************************** > E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group > P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 > Grove City, OH 43123 > >Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse > 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) > >http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com >****************************************************************** > > - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #129 *************************