From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #141 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, May 27 1998 Volume 02 : Number 141 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 20:32:53 -0700 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Fratrum: [Fwd: Prozac Implicated in Oregon School Shooting] At 07:40 AM 5/26/98 +0500, you wrote: >> Can anyone supply any information on the other shootings where Prozac was >> involved? > >Working from memory, there's >Patrick Purdy/Stockton, CA I'm pretty sure that Purdy is pre-Prozac. Purdy was back in the mid 80's; Prozac wasn't out then. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) Registered Libertarian - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ Bureau of Justice statistics report that every day, 14 people will be murdered, 48 women raped, and 570 people robbed by criminals free on parole and probation. Keeping criminals in jail DOES reduce crime! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Proud Member of the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" since 1992! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:37 +0500 From: "Brad Alpert" <1911a1@gte.net> Subject: Re: Fratrum: [Fwd: Prozac Implicated in Oregon School Shooting > >Working from memory, there's > >Patrick Purdy/Stockton, CA > > I'm pretty sure that Purdy is pre-Prozac. Purdy was back in the mid 80's; > Prozac wasn't out then. I could easily be wrong on the Purdy/Prozac call, Ken. He was definitely on some sort of psychotropic meds, though; that's been documented. Perhaps Weisbecker was the first Prozac guy? FWIW, Hinckley was on Valium. Brad - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 98 18:27:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: 1st Gun Confiscation ! - With No Crime Committed (fwd) On May 26, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 15-year-old charged, father's guns seized after teacher threatened Associated Press, 05/26/98 11:20 LITTLE EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (AP) - Skittish after a wave of school shootings, police arrested a 15-year-old boy and seized more than 20 guns legally owned by his father after the boy showed a teacher a drawing of someone being shot. The Pinelands Regional High School sophomore was charged with making terroristic threats against the 35-year-old teacher Friday. Fearful that the boy had access to them, police seized the weapons - including two AK-47s - and more than 100 rounds of ammunition as a precaution. The father had the appropriate ownership documents for the weapons and was not charged, police said. ``There has to be a concern in the wake of everything going on around the country,'' said police Detective Robert F. Knapp, referring to last week's schools shooting in Springfield, Ore., and others that preceded it. Neither the boy's name nor the teacher's name were released. The teacher told police the boy showed her ``a handwritten drawing of a person being killed at gunpoint,'' according to police reports. While in class, the boy had showed his teacher the drawing and asked what she thought of it. The drawing depicted a male victim in the crosshairs of a rifle scope saying ``Help.'' Another figure in the drawing said ``You're dead.'' The boy had behavior problems in school and ``past incidents of aggressive behavior,'' Knapp said. In addition, the boy had written a fairy tale in his English class that included a graphic murder, said Tish Steward, a math teacher at the school who is president of the Pinelands Teachers' Association. ``To tell you the truth, I'd be very disturbed,'' said Steward. ``It was very frightening to this particular person.'' The boy, who was released to his parents, was scheduled to appear Tuesday in Ocean County Family Court. - -- http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/146/15_year_old_charged__father_s_guns_.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 98 18:27:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: 1st Gun Confiscation ! - With No Crime Committed (fwd) On May 26, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 15-year-old charged, father's guns seized after teacher threatened Associated Press, 05/26/98 11:20 LITTLE EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (AP) - Skittish after a wave of school shootings, police arrested a 15-year-old boy and seized more than 20 guns legally owned by his father after the boy showed a teacher a drawing of someone being shot. The Pinelands Regional High School sophomore was charged with making terroristic threats against the 35-year-old teacher Friday. Fearful that the boy had access to them, police seized the weapons - including two AK-47s - and more than 100 rounds of ammunition as a precaution. The father had the appropriate ownership documents for the weapons and was not charged, police said. ``There has to be a concern in the wake of everything going on around the country,'' said police Detective Robert F. Knapp, referring to last week's schools shooting in Springfield, Ore., and others that preceded it. Neither the boy's name nor the teacher's name were released. The teacher told police the boy showed her ``a handwritten drawing of a person being killed at gunpoint,'' according to police reports. While in class, the boy had showed his teacher the drawing and asked what she thought of it. The drawing depicted a male victim in the crosshairs of a rifle scope saying ``Help.'' Another figure in the drawing said ``You're dead.'' The boy had behavior problems in school and ``past incidents of aggressive behavior,'' Knapp said. In addition, the boy had written a fairy tale in his English class that included a graphic murder, said Tish Steward, a math teacher at the school who is president of the Pinelands Teachers' Association. ``To tell you the truth, I'd be very disturbed,'' said Steward. ``It was very frightening to this particular person.'' The boy, who was released to his parents, was scheduled to appear Tuesday in Ocean County Family Court. - -- http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/146/15_year_old_charged__father_s_guns_.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 98 18:27:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: 1st Gun Confiscation ! - With No Crime Committed (fwd) On May 26, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 15-year-old charged, father's guns seized after teacher threatened Associated Press, 05/26/98 11:20 LITTLE EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (AP) - Skittish after a wave of school shootings, police arrested a 15-year-old boy and seized more than 20 guns legally owned by his father after the boy showed a teacher a drawing of someone being shot. The Pinelands Regional High School sophomore was charged with making terroristic threats against the 35-year-old teacher Friday. Fearful that the boy had access to them, police seized the weapons - including two AK-47s - and more than 100 rounds of ammunition as a precaution. The father had the appropriate ownership documents for the weapons and was not charged, police said. ``There has to be a concern in the wake of everything going on around the country,'' said police Detective Robert F. Knapp, referring to last week's schools shooting in Springfield, Ore., and others that preceded it. Neither the boy's name nor the teacher's name were released. The teacher told police the boy showed her ``a handwritten drawing of a person being killed at gunpoint,'' according to police reports. While in class, the boy had showed his teacher the drawing and asked what she thought of it. The drawing depicted a male victim in the crosshairs of a rifle scope saying ``Help.'' Another figure in the drawing said ``You're dead.'' The boy had behavior problems in school and ``past incidents of aggressive behavior,'' Knapp said. In addition, the boy had written a fairy tale in his English class that included a graphic murder, said Tish Steward, a math teacher at the school who is president of the Pinelands Teachers' Association. ``To tell you the truth, I'd be very disturbed,'' said Steward. ``It was very frightening to this particular person.'' The boy, who was released to his parents, was scheduled to appear Tuesday in Ocean County Family Court. - -- http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/146/15_year_old_charged__father_s_guns_.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 23:06:37 +0500 From: "Brad Alpert" <1911a1@gte.net> Subject: Re: Fratrum: [Fwd: Prozac Implicated in Oregon School Shooting > >Working from memory, there's > >Patrick Purdy/Stockton, CA > > I'm pretty sure that Purdy is pre-Prozac. Purdy was back in the mid 80's; > Prozac wasn't out then. I could easily be wrong on the Purdy/Prozac call, Ken. He was definitely on some sort of psychotropic meds, though; that's been documented. Perhaps Weisbecker was the first Prozac guy? FWIW, Hinckley was on Valium. Brad - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 98 18:27:58 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: 1st Gun Confiscation ! - With No Crime Committed (fwd) On May 26, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 15-year-old charged, father's guns seized after teacher threatened Associated Press, 05/26/98 11:20 LITTLE EGG HARBOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. (AP) - Skittish after a wave of school shootings, police arrested a 15-year-old boy and seized more than 20 guns legally owned by his father after the boy showed a teacher a drawing of someone being shot. The Pinelands Regional High School sophomore was charged with making terroristic threats against the 35-year-old teacher Friday. Fearful that the boy had access to them, police seized the weapons - including two AK-47s - and more than 100 rounds of ammunition as a precaution. The father had the appropriate ownership documents for the weapons and was not charged, police said. ``There has to be a concern in the wake of everything going on around the country,'' said police Detective Robert F. Knapp, referring to last week's schools shooting in Springfield, Ore., and others that preceded it. Neither the boy's name nor the teacher's name were released. The teacher told police the boy showed her ``a handwritten drawing of a person being killed at gunpoint,'' according to police reports. While in class, the boy had showed his teacher the drawing and asked what she thought of it. The drawing depicted a male victim in the crosshairs of a rifle scope saying ``Help.'' Another figure in the drawing said ``You're dead.'' The boy had behavior problems in school and ``past incidents of aggressive behavior,'' Knapp said. In addition, the boy had written a fairy tale in his English class that included a graphic murder, said Tish Steward, a math teacher at the school who is president of the Pinelands Teachers' Association. ``To tell you the truth, I'd be very disturbed,'' said Steward. ``It was very frightening to this particular person.'' The boy, who was released to his parents, was scheduled to appear Tuesday in Ocean County Family Court. - -- http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/146/15_year_old_charged__father_s_guns_.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:01:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Clinton's Rogues Gallery - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- http://www.freerepublic.com Topic: Clinton's Rogues Gallery Downside Legacy at Two Degrees of President Clinton Various FR Posters 4/23/98 Various FR Posters CLINTON'S ROGUES GALLERY: DOWNSIDE LEGACY AT TWO DEGREES OF PRESIDENT CLINTON The following list is a compilation from Free Republic posters, edited by Free Republic posters. It is dynamic, subject to continuing authentication, editing, correction and expansion. The list seeks to exclude emotion, judgment and rhetoric by using minimal qualifiers and gentler words - such as "contradiction" over the more inflammatory alternative. Please help to keep the list up-to-date, draw your own conclusions, and use it as you wish.=20 CONVICTIONS Webster Hubbell Jim McDougal Susan McDougal Gov. Jim Guy Tucker Stephen Smith David Hale Eugene Fitzhugh Charles Matthews Robert W. Palmer Chris Wade Neal T. Ainley Larry Kuca Henry Espy James Lake William J. Marks, Sr. John Latham John Haley Michael Brown (Ron Brown=92s son)=20 Eugene Lum Nora Lum Johnny Chung Tyson Foods Sun Diamond Growers Richard Douglas James Lake Ron Blackley Smith Barney Crop Growers Corporation Brook Keith Mitchell Sr. Five M Farming Enterprises John J. Hemmingson Alvarez T. Ferrouillet, Jr. Municipal Healthcare Cooperative Ferrouillet & Ferrouillet Linda Jones Patsy Jo Wooten Allen Wooten Roger Clinton Dan Lasater Bill McCuen Dan Harmon Roger Tamraz (Lebanon by default)=20 INDICTMENTS AND TARGETS Ron Brown (indictment was pending at time of death) Herby Branscum Robert Hill Mike Espy Henry Cisneros Jack Williams Archie Schaefer Charlie Trie Maria Hsia Nolanda Hill Babbit Ron Carey Monica Lewinsky Webster Hubbell, Wife and 2 Others (new charges) Hillary Clinton Bill Clinton Roger Tamraz (France)=20 PRIVILEGE CLAIMS Bruce Lindsey Sid Blumenthal Hillary Clinton Secret Service Foster=92s Law Firm (Hamilton?)=20 INTIMIDATION, BEATEN OR THREATENED Gary Johnson, Beaten LJ Davis, Beaten Larry Nichols, Threats (Several Attempts) Linda Tripp, Threats INTIMIDATION, IRS AUDIT Paula and Stephen Jones David Horowitz, head of Drudge defense fund The American Spectator Billy Dale (Travel Office)=20 Texe Marrs Joseph Farah (World Net Daily) Chuck Harder (People=92s Network Inc.) Western Journalism Center Citizens for a Sound Economy Manufacturing Policy Project (Pat Choate) American Life League Christian Film and Television Commission National Rifle Association National Review American Spectator National Center for Public Policy Research American Policy Center Heritage Foundation American Cause Citizens Against Government Waste Citizens for Honest Government Freedom Alliance Progress and Freedom Foundation Council for National Policy Concerned Women for America Center for Bioethical Reform Free Congress Foundation (warning?)=20 Fortress America (warning?)=20 INTIMIDATION, CHARACTER Ken Starr and prosecutorial staff - press materials, Carville declared "war," and White House officials "our continuing campaign to destroy Ken Starr" and "stand up to Starr" campaign. Gary Aldrich Matt Drudge - $30m Sid Blumenthal suit Linda Tripp - - Pentagon information to New Yorker David Hale - David Pryor Rep. Barr & Judicial Committee Members - Mulholland Billy Dale (Travel Office) State Troopers via Buddy Young (Clinton) - (testified to procuring women) Three state troopers testified that they or their families were threatened if they talked. Dolly Kyle Browning testified her brother, a 1992 Clinton campaign worker, warned "we will destroy you" if she talked. Kathleen Willey - Nathan Landow flew her to his estate, conversation Jim Robinson - lawsuit threats Chris Emory Bruce Bates Jeff Evans Margie Gray Patricia and Glenn Mendoza (shouted remark at president) William E. Kelly (Chicago) Kent Masterson Brown Walter Gazecki Shelly Davis INTIMIDATION - TAX EXEMPT STATUS Christian Coalition Christian Coalition, California chapter San Diego Chapter of Christian Coalition Three chapters of American Family Association Life Legal Defense Foundation Pierce Creek Church (Vestal, NY) Second Baptist Church (Lake Jackson, Texas)=20 OTHER CRIMINAL ASSOCIATES Jorge Cabrera Dan Lasater (Pardon by Gov. Clinton) Roger Clinton (half brother Pardon by Gov. Clinton) Arthur Coia Wang Jun PRIVATE AND PUBLIC INVESTIGATIVE RESOURCES 2300 FBI Files improperly acquired (White House) - Marceca testified about these FBI used in White House claims in the firing of the White House Travel Office. Terry Lenzer and firm (Private/White House) Jack Palladino and firm (Private/Campaign)= =20 FBI used to remove Chef Sean Haddon TESTIMONY IN CONTRADICTION TO THE PRESIDENT Monica Lewisnky (on the tapes)= =20 Paula Jones Kathleen Willey Christy Zercher Gennifer Flowers Dolly Kyle Browning Elizabeth Ward Gracen Sally Perdue Pamela Blackard Debra Ballentine Larry Patterson L.D. Brown Roger Perry Danny Ferguson (cuts both ways) David Hale Jim McDougal APPEARANCE OF QUID PRO QUO Loral/Hughes - China Missile Guidance Indonesia/Riady - Sweet Coal Webb Hubbell - $700,00 in business in 6 months Elizabeth Ward Gracen - via Harry Thomason Teamsters/DNC - Mutual Financial Larry Lawrence - Buried in Arlington Goverment Jobs for Sexual Favors - Various Testimony Paying for Silence - Jones (via Thompson) .=20 Monica Lewinsky - Jobs/Vernon Jordan Monica Lewinsky - Job/U.N. Bill Richardson Larry Lawrence - Switzerland appointment (wife) Federal contracts to unionized companies (pending)=20 CLAIMING THE 5TH OR REFUSING TO ANSWER Susan McDougal Contempt of court Susan Thomases Clinton Advisor, 108 non-answers Webster Hubbell Former Associate Attorney General, 112 non-answers Maggie Williams Hillary Clinton=92s Former Chief of Staff, 96 non-answers Bruce Lindsey, Advisor, 7= 0 non-answers Neil Eggleston, Associate Counsel, 106 non-answers Roger Altman, Deputy Treasury Secretary, 208 non-answers Hillary Clinton, 58 non-answers Bill Clinton, 37 non-answers John Huang Jane Huang Johnny Chung Man Ya Shih David Wang Keshi Zhan Gin F. J. Chen Siuw Moi Lian Yi Chu Mark Middleton Seow Fong Ooi Joseph Landon Bin Yueh Jeng Hsiu Chu Lin Larry Wong Duangnet Kronenberg Jen Chin Hsueh Na-chi "Nancy" Lee Chi Rung Wang Hueutsan Huang Jou Sheng Yue Chu Yogesh Ghandi Judy Hsu Man Ho Steven Hwang Jane Dewi Tahir Manlin Foung Gilbert Colon Maria Mapili Yumei Yang Irene Wu Jie Su Hsiao Arapaho/Cheyenne Indians Mike Lin Hsiu Luan Tseng Hsin Chen Shih Zie Pan Huang Mark Jimenez Shu Jen Wu Michael Brown Woody Hwang Charles Intriago Simon Chen Sioeng Fei Man Jessica Elinitiarta Kent La Craig Livingstone FOREIGN WITNESSES, REFUSING TO ANSWER Ng Lap Seng Stephen Riady Roy Tirtadji Ken Hsui John Muncy James Lin Eugene Wu Mochtar Riady Stanley Ho Suma Ching Hai James Riady Daniel Wu Ambrose Hsuing Lay Kweek Wie Li Kwai Fai Bruce Cheung AVOIDING WITNESS BY LEAVING THE COUNTRY Elizabeth Ward Gracen Pauline Kanchanalak Ming Chen Antonio Pan John H.K. Lee Agus Setiawan Ted Sioeng Dewi Tirto Subandi Tanuwidjaja Soraya Wiriadinata Felix Ma Susanto Tanuwidjaja Suryanti Tanuwidjaja Subandi Tanuwidjaja Yanti Ardi Nanny Nitiarta Yopie Elnitiarta Maureen Elnitiarta Sandra Elnitiarta Sundari Elnitiarta WITNESS THAT LEFT THE COUNTRY, REASON UNKNOWN Arief Wiriandinata GOVERNMENT FACILITIES FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES Lincoln Bedroom v Contributions Queens Bedroom (overflow from Lincoln Bedroom) Trade Mission Seats v Contributions Coffees v Contributions Fund Raising Calls from White House White House Legal Office - Personal Defense Camp David Air Force One Kennedy Center USE OF GOVERNMENT AGENCIES FOR POLITICAL PURPOSE FBI/Travelgate INS/Pack the Vote 96 Justice/Firing all US Attorneys Presidential Counsel's Office/Personal Work BYPASS BY EXECUTIVE ORDERS Assault Weapons Domestic/NSC Greenhouse (executive order threat) American Heritage Rivers Initiative American Heritage Rivers Initiative - Biodiversity Treaty American Heritage Rivers Initiative - Council on Sustainable Development (Agenda 21/92 Rio Earth Summit) Designation of 1.7 Million Acres in South Utah Off-limits to Development (Sweet Coal)=20 STONEWALLS Billing records missing for 2 years (subpoenaed, crucial to FDIC investigation) appeared in White House living area and turned over several days after statute of limitation expired. Bruce Lindsey's notes, subpoenaed but not turned over until the day after the Senate's Whitewater Committee authorization expired. Hillary Clinton and White House lawyer talks claimed as executive privilege, then attorney client privilege, appealed to Supreme Court - ordered turned over. Existence of diaries subpoenaed in April 97, were "concealed" to October 97 and have not been released. Second set also not disclosed until three weeks before committee's deadline expired. Existence of videotapes subpoenaed in April 97 (coffees and fund-raisers) was not disclosed but then turned over October '97. FBI files from 91 (Chinese efforts to influence U.S. elections) were turned over five days after the Senate committee ended its hearings. White House continues to be unresponsive (from June 96 to date) to requests by Rep. Dave McIntosh, R-Ind., concerning its 300,000-name database. White House tried to delay the Paula Jones case until after Clinton left office, appealed to the Supreme Court, turned down unanimously. Existence of letters from Willey, subpoenaed by Jones' attorney was denied, but 15 were produced in response to 60 Minutes interview, by personal approval of president. Lewinsky proffer: Clinton told her that if she were in New York, she might be able to avoid testifying in the Jones lawsuit Lewinsky proffer: Clinton told her she would not have to turn over the gifts, subpoenaed by Ms. Jones's lawyers, if she did not have them in her possession. Lewinsky proffer: Clinton told her that she could explain her White House visits as trips to see Ms.= =20 Currie. Clinton met with Ms. Currie on a Sunday in January, the day after his deposition in the Paula Jones case, posed and answered a series of questions to guide her through an account of his relationship with Lewinsky. The president placed Betty Currie at the center of all Lewinsky-related matters Mr. Clinton took Ms. Currie on his recent trip to Africa. Lewinsky tapes: she claims Clinton directed her to testify falsely in the Jones case. Under oath Ms. Tripp said she was told by Lewinsky to "lie and deny," Lewinsky passed along to Ms. Tripp three pages of "talking points" giving her instructions on how to lie under oath.=20 Clinton/Flowers tape: Clinton says "deny it" Flowers says "The only thing that concerns me . . . at this point, is the state job," to which Clinton replies, "Yeah, I never thought about that. . . . If they ever ask if you've talked to me about it, you can say no." Refusal to allow access to medical records.=20 SELF CONTRADICTION The president's videotaped statement to donors that he was raising soft money (illegally) to pay for reelection ads v his previous denials. Publicly pledging cooperation v strategy of stonewalling Jones and Starr and House/Senate Fictitious claim by president that he could not comment on the Lewinsky matter because he was legally required to keep silent. Clinton in January 98: "You and the American people have a right to get answers. I'd like for you to have more rather than less, sooner rather than later. So we'll work through it as quickly as we can and get all those questions out there to you" v February 98, "I've told the American people what is essential for them to know about this." Clinton's has changed from 'never having met Jones' to admitting that they may have been in the same room alone. Feb. 22 denial that White House "or any of President Clinton's private attorneys has hired or authorized any private investigator to look into the background of . . . investigators, prosecutors or reporters" v next day Terry Lenzner said that his firm, Investigative Group Inc., had been retained by the law firm representing Mr. Clinton in Mr. Starr's investigation. Clinton's statement he had "no specific recollection" of his meeting with Ms. Willey, v a later statement that he "has a very clear memory" of the meeting. Clinton denials in 1992 60 Minutes interview regarding Gennifer Flowers v (6 six years later) answering yes under oath. Clinton's 1994 statement on executive privilege, "It's hard for me to imagine a circumstance in which that would be an appropriate thing for me to do" and counsel (Cutler's) statement that (1994) it is practice "not to assert executive privilege" in circumstances involving communications relating to investigations of personal wrongdoing by government officials v executive privilege claims.=20 A SMOKING GUN?=20 The president has denied, under oath and in public statements, any sexual relations with Lewinsky. There are 20 hours of tape recordings between Lewinsky and Tripp, which details her affair with the president. Lewinsky proffer confirms a sexual relationship with him. Lewinsky told others about her encounters with the president. Others claim to have heard Clinton's messages left on her answering machine. The president gave Lewinsky gifts. Lewinsky sent courier packages to the president. Lewinsky turned the gifts over to Betty Currie, who gave them to Mr. Starr's investigators. Lewinsky made at least 37 visits to the White House after she was reassigned to the Pentagon, and Clinton met with her after she was subpoenaed by Jones.=20 ANOTHER SMOKING GUN?=20 President's deposition concerning Arkansas McDougal related bank fraud was denial. Susan McDougal's refusal to answer question "Did the president testify truthfully?" resulted in jail time. Bank documents found in trunk of abandoned car.=20 RECENT RESIGNATIONS George Stephanopoulos David Gergen Dee Dee Myers Dick Morris Robert Reich Ira Magaziner Frederico Pena Harold Ickes Mike Espy Roger Altman Les Aspin Leon Panetta Hazel O'Leary Warren Christopher Lanny Davis Franklin Raines (pending) Richard Riley (rumored) Robert Rubin (rumored) Mike McCurry (rumored) Thomas ("Mack") McLarty (rumored)=20 DEATHS - SUICIDES Vincent Foster (Whitehouse Deputy Counsel, Gunshot to mouth) Kathy Ferguson (ex-wife of Clinton co-defendant, Gunshot to head)= =20 Bill Shelton (Arkansas state trooper, Kathy Ferguson's fiancee, Gunshot to head) Susan Coleman (Alleged Clinton Girlfriend, 7.5 months pregnant, Gunshot to head) Jon Parnell Walker (RTC Investigator on Whitewater, fell from top of Lincoln Towers) Ed Willey ( Democratic Fundraiser, Gunshot to head)=20 DEATHS - HOMICIDES Mary Mahoney (Former White House intern shot multiple times in a Starbucks, no money taken) Luther "Jerry" Parks (Provided security for Clinton's campaign, multiple gunshots) Don Ives (Witness to Mena, gunshot/left to be run over by train) Kevin Henry (Witness to Mena, gunshot/left to be run over by train)=20 DEATHS - ACCIDENTS Ron Brown, Plane Crash (Commerce, Pathologists question wound to head on xrays) Victor Raisner, Plane Crash (National Finance Co-Chair Clinton for President) R. Montgomery Raiser, Plane Crash (Clinton campaign) Herschell Friday, Plane Explosion (Presidential Campaign Finance Committee) Paula Gober, Car Accident (Clinton Speech Interpreter) Stanley Heard, Plane Crash (Clinton Health Care Advisory Committee) Steven Dickson, Plane Crash (Clinton Health Care Advisory Committee) Johnny Lawhon, Car Accident (Found Whitewater Canceled Check in Car after Tornado) Brian Hassey, Helicopter Crash (Clinton Bodyguard)= =20 Timothy Sabel, Helicopter Crash (Clinton Bodyguard) William Barkley, Helicopter Crash (Clinton Bodyguard) Scott Reynolds, Helicopter Crash (Clinton Bodyguard) Betty Currie=92s brother, Car/Pedestrian Accident (Key Witness=92 brother) Shelley Kelly, Survived Brown Plane Crash - died hours later (Stewardess) Judy Gibbs, Fire (Alleged Clinton Girlfriend, Witness)= =20 DEATHS - NATURAL Jim McDougal, Heart Attack in Solitary (Witness in Whitewater)=20 DEATHS - UNKNOWN Barbara Wise (Mickey Kantor's press secretary found dead, nude, in a locked office at Commerce) Paul Tulley (Democratic National Committee, in Hotel Room)=20 DEATHS - UNRECORDED Various "Partial Birth" abortions since veto Draw your own conclusions. If you see an error or something missing - please post a correction as soon as possible.=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:11:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Subject: Claire Wolfe, after the fall of justice - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:01:26 -0500 From: "Brenda C. Jinkins" Subject: CAS: OT: Wolf: AFTER THE FALL OF JUSTICE [Note: No matter what your burning issue or political bent, every citizen needs to read this article. If the jury can no longer=20 be hung or nullify the law, what is the consequence to all? I read about two other recent examples of Gestapo justice=20 on FR lately. One was about peaceful anti-abortion demonstrators who were=20 standing on a public sidewalk who were arrested and one=20 woman's wrist was twisted and broken. Another concerned a man=20 arrested for refusing to give his thumbprint to cash a check=20 at a bank after he had provided other valid id. BCJ] =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D AFTER THE FALL OF JUSTICE When Justice Leaves the Courtroom, Hope Turns Elsewhere This article was written for the Loompanics Unlimited summer 1998 catalog supplement. In Alaska, a demonstrator is charged with felony jury tampering for shouting, "Call 1-800-TEL-JURY!" within the hearing of jurors. Those who dial the number hear a recording that simply informs them they have a right to vote their conscience. In Washington state, a judge and three U.S. attorneys covertly excise key pages from a booklet before allowing it to be entered as defense evidence in the trial of several militia members. They are not charged with evidence tampering. Another day in the American court system. Justice, or its simulacrum,=20 is dispensed as judges and prosecutors see fit. There's nothing new in that. What's new, or what's dangerously on the increase, is the systematic rigging of the court system to preserve judicial power and punish anyone who dares challenge it. And what's more important -- but clearly unforeseen by the riggers -- is the catastrophe likely to arise from this power grab. Myths and Hopes We cherish a myth that the justice system is the last, best hope for the beleaguered "little guy" in the world of the powerful. No matter what happens, we've been told, even the humblest of us can "have our day in court," be heard and be vindicated, as long as truth and fairness are on our side. This was never literally true, of course. Any poor, black man can tell you the reality of justice. The surviving, imprisoned Branch Davidians can tell you, as can the girlfriend of a drug dealer, locked away for years for sitting in a car during a transaction. Dozens of militiamen, set up by government informants, can tell you. As can dope smokers, tax resisters and businesspeople who made the mistake of violating arcane regulations. Nevertheless, justice is sometimes served, and the myth prevails. There are good reasons why it must prevail. In a civil society, the myth of justice serves two related -- if contradictory -- purposes. On one hand, ordinary people need the myth to give them hope against the powerful. On the other, the powerful require ordinary people to believe in the myth because it keeps the rabble complacent. A belief in justice -- even an erroneous belief -- can be the line that separates gentility from riots in the streets. Even in these days of cynicism, there has still existed a flame of optimism about the power of ordinary people in the courtroom. The belief is so strong that some advocates of limited government have built their main hope upon it. The constitutionalists -- loosely, the legal researchers, sovereign citizens and pro se litigants who seek to limit the influence of government -- have spent endless hours and endless dollars building cases for, and on, the law. These hopeful Good Citizens have cherished the belief that they could go into court, present their arguments and (if those arguments proved intellectually, historically and constitutionally correct) prevail against institutionalized injustice. Not only prevail, personally, but return America to a land of limited government and individual rights. With that hope, and armed with reams of legal documents, many have besieged courts and other government agencies. Some of their arguments have been bogus. Some undeniably correct. A few have won the day. Most have been futile. A Change in the Tide Recently, a tiny time bomb landed in my e-mail box. In one sense, there was nothing new about it; some of us radical anti-government curmudgeons have been shouting a similar message for years. But given the source, it was revolutionary.[Note 1] Headed "Citizen Soldiers," the message said, in part: I have just returned from a meeting with a true constitutionalist attorney here in town, one with past and quite recent important victories in the area of tax issues....Basically, he intimated we as Americans must finally realize there is no such thing as an unassailable constitutional protection in this republic anymore. =2E...Face it, we're on our own; there is not and CAN NEVER BE any 'silver bullet.' So what's new, you ask? Check the endless well reasoned posts on this list, as well as the other lists many of you monitor. We know the law better than the DOJ, we have higher judicial scruples than the judges, and we're losing ground every day. In essence, we are fielding the GE College Bowl winners against the Gestapo. I have spent endless hours over the last five years studying and applying the law, contacting the IRS, my congressman...and the only difference it has made is that I understand PERFECTLY the gargantuan fraud this government (sic) is perpetrating on its citizens. The question arises: do I continue the futile? Within days, confirmations poured fourth. One came from attorney Steffan Bertsch of Lake Stevens, Washington, author of the book Crisis in Our Courts: I am sorry to admit that your writer is correct in that there is little or no law running the "justice" system; American justice has given way to ignorance, cowardice and corruption. =2E...Henry David Thoreau told us that if a law was immoral, that we as moral people must realize that we will not live long enough to change the immoral law by any democratic process and that we must realize that "if it [a law] is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law." On Civil Disobedience. This advice is especially true today when Congress and state legislatures pass so many laws that lawyers cannot read the annual output and are forced to resort to reading summaries of statutes and regulations, hence are left vastly ignorant of the laws. American laws are so numerous that "ignorance of the law" should be made a defense=20 if a reasonable person would not know of the law.[Note 2] The essential point is, again, not the words, but the source. The last dogged proponents of "the system" are beginning to abandon hope. The justice system was the last legal avenue for these "little guys" and their principled attorneys.[Note 3] What has changed? Why are they abandoning it now when it never has been a perfect system? And, perhaps more important, what happens after they bail out? Why Now? The various justice-system reformers have seen some victories, some defeats. The record is inconclusive. But the very existence of these challengers threatens the security of the powers-that-be. Recently, those powers have been taking harsh steps to fight back: In a now-notorious case, political activist Laura Kriho of Colorado became the first American juror in more than 300 years put on trial after refusing to convict a defendant. She was, among other things, charged with perjury for failing to volunteer information about her past that she was never actually asked to give. In the Team Viper cases in Arizona (and many others) the judge refused to allow defendants to question the constitutionality of the laws they were charged with violating, even though the Supreme Court declared in one of its most famous cases: "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void" and have no force from the moment they are passed (Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (2 Cranch) 137 (1803)). The judges shrug, "Take it up on appeal," knowing all the while that, by then, an innocent person may have spent years in prison and be bankrupt. Fearful of the power of minority opinions on juries, the state of Oregon changed its laws to enable conviction on an 11-1 vote. The U.S. Supreme Court decreed that states may authorize conviction on a 10-2 vote. In Albany, New York, a juror refused to convict a defendant in a drug case, saying the law under which the defendant was charged was wrong. Instead of declaring a mistrial, as has been done in the past, the judge simply fired the juror and granted the rest of the jury the spurious power to convict 11-0. In Washington, Republican state representative Karen Schmidt circulated a memo warning fellow members of government they might be "victims" of a type of "organized crime" committed by "extremists." Schmidt's newly defined crime, Paper Terrorism, is characterized primarily as an attempt to use the justice system to challenge the status quo: "Frivolous lawsuits against government entities"; challenging judges in court cases; "disrupting the court system by persuading fellow jail inmates to defend themselves..."; "distributing the extremist Citizens Handbook (sic) to foster jury nullification" and "requesting information from courts, government agencies, elected officials and businesses..." California, Indiana and other states soon followed suit. Legislatures and enforcement agencies are now actively prosecuting courtroom "terrorists." The Attack on the Jury An increasing number of judicial power plays involve attempts to curb jury nullification. Nullification is the historic, common-law practice by which jurors pass judgment on the law, as well as the facts of the case before them.[Note 4] Today, trial judges habitually inform jurors that they may deliberate on the facts only -- that they may never ask, "Is the law just?" or, "Is the law justly applied to this defendant?" Until the Kriho case, jury-rights activists (notably the Fully Informed Jury Association, FIJA[Note 5]) considered their position to be win-win; even if activists were arrested for telling jurors about nullification, or if jurors were charged for practicing it, the juries who tried their cases would -- voila! -- hear jury-rights arguments or see jury-rights literature presented in evidence. Naturally. How else could jurors gauge activists' actions? But under a recent Colorado law, defendants facing six months or less don't receive jury trials.[Note 6] Therefore, a judge and prosecutor got together and carefully structured charges against Kriho to ensure she would not have the benefit of a jury. Facing only a judge, whose power was directly threatened by her stand, Kriho naturally lost (although the judge's decision vindicated part of her position). But this was only one early, and highly visible, example of the attack on those who challenge the authority of judges and the will of prosecutors. The two cases cited at the top of this article are others. In the Washington State Militia case, what did the judge and prosecutors excise from the evidence? The jury-rights section of The Citizen's Rulebook. The attack on the jury extends across national borders, as well. In Canada, a juror in that country's longest and most expensive murder trial (Regina v. Bhudpinder Johal et al., Court File No. CC940998) now faces up to 10 years in prison for obstruction of justice. There is evidence the juror, Gillian Guess, behaved foolishly -- visiting several defendants and, after the verdict, forming a sexual relationship with one of them. However, she never received an order not to visit them, and there is no evidence she influenced the outcome of the trial. Why charge Guess? For one thing, the jury humiliated the prosecution -- finding every defendant not guilty in this highly publicized trial. But Guess was the only one who went on television afterward and declared that the government should never have brought "such flimsy charges" against the defendants. In previous cases of juror misconduct, judges have declared mistrials, or appeals courts have overturned guilty verdicts. But for 300 years, the independence of the jury has never been threatened, even by the angriest prosecutor or most dictatorial judge. Prosecuting jurors is a new trend whose danger as an intimidation tactic can't be overstated. There is, however, not only a trend to cow jurors into obedience, but to fill juries with those who are predisposed to obey orders. The process of voir dire was originally intended to screen out friends of either side or people with unshakable prejudices. However, it has become, as syndicated columnist Vin Suprynowicz and attorney Bertsch have both pointed out, a jury-stacking scheme. Jurors are grilled on their sex lives and the number of guns in their homes. (The very process screens out anyone with enough spine to refuse to answer outrageous questions.) In high-profile trials they are subject to private investigation and "management" by jury consultants, looking not for impartiality, but for desired forms of bias. If prospective jurors express knowledge of jury rights or hint that conscience might take precedence over authority, they're out. The truly independent-minded juror is automatically abolished from the panel. Thus, the news is filled with tales from jurors, who cry that they had "no choice but to convict," over the objections of their own conscience and common sense. In a notorious 1997 case, jurors emerged from deliberations weeping and demanding a governor's pardon for an 18-year-old boy they had just convicted of child molesting. His "crime" carried a horrifying mandatory sentence. Yet he had done nothing worse than get his 15-year-old girlfriend pregnant. Jurors recognized they had before them a normal teenager who, in fact, wanted to "do the right thing" and marry the girl. But the judge decreed his jurors could only judge the facts, not the fairness of the law. The jurors were, as the old Nazi claim goes, "only following orders." Swimming with Piranhas We have reached a point at which "the law is whatever I say it is" -- as long as the "I" in question is a judge or a prosecutor. Because the appeals system is populated by members of the same "club," the most outrageous injustices are often upheld. Those who dissent are like minnows among piranhas. Their earnest belief in the truth is no defense against a frenzy of carnivores. Yet, the piranhas fear the minnows -- or are at least determined to show the next little school of challengers not to mess with guys who have sharp teeth. Clearly many of the above judicial maneuverings are in response to the perceived threat posed by self-taught legal scholars and jury-rights activists. The problem is this: No matter why authorities maneuver to curb the power of juries and political dissidents, the effect of their power play can strike anyone. A judge may issue orders in defiance of FIJA, but it isn't FIJA who suffers when the jury convicts against its own conscience. It's the poor pot smoker, militia member or gun owner convicted of violating an unconscionable law. A judge may refuse to admit constitutional arguments to her courtroom out of frustration with "paper terrorists." And indeed the "terrorists" suffer and become more outraged. But the status of justice suffers worse. Even victories present dangers. When a FIJA activist or drug user goes free because of a hung jury, those momentary triumphs inspire courtroom crackdowns, revenge against jurors, and laws to further curtail jury power. Ultimately, the myth dies. Whether you're a constitutional scholar or a semi-literate kid, you know you won't get justice in the justice system. Remember, the justice system isn't the little guy's first hope. It's the last. What do you do when that hope is snuffed? The weary, but principled writer of "Citizen Soldiers" says: In my humble opinion, we should ALL be deciding on the level of civil disobedience we are willing to engage in. If this is the law, we should all become LAWBREAKERS, encourage others to become LAWBREAKERS, be steadfast on juries to free LAWBREAKERS, stand tall in the rightness of being LAWBREAKERS. But this cry of defiance sounds sweetly innocent when compared with what a less principled "little guy" is likely to do if he knows he can't get justice in the courts. As Vin Suprynowicz wrote, commenting upon the New York 11-0 verdict, which was partially supported by the Court of Appeals: The segment of the American populace who should be most concerned about the arrogant, elitist trend reflected by this New York appeals court ruling should be police officers. So far, when advising an armed suspect to "Give it up, and I'll see you get a jury trial," the average cop has had a fair chance of success. But once the average suspect realizes that government-salaried judges now can and will remove any juror who votes to acquit -- or who admits under questioning that he might favor a defendant's view of the law over the government's -- that suspect is far more likely to figure "I'm dead anyway, and I might as well take one lying government bureaucrat with me." The same is true of any form of court-rigging. Those who crave authority should understand that when they do anything to reduce the power of ordinary citizens in court -- whether jurors or defendants -- they do so at their own peril. The justice system serves as a safety valve on the overheated engine of society. Plug the valve and something explodes. Ultimately, prosecutors and judges who behave like tyrants in the courtroom will find that it isn't the little guy -- the demonized "paper terrorist," the jury-rights advocate, the pot smoker, the militia member, the drug entrepreneur or the errant juror -- who suffers the most dire consequences when the justice myth dies. No. When the powerful close the doors to justice -- and when common people understand that the doors are closed, we have one more place to turn: the streets. # # # 1.1 The message was posted anonymously to the ICE Internet list. The author copied it to me, under his own name. 2.Both Bertsch's essay and "Citizen Soldiers" can be read in full at Wolfe's Lodge http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2110. 3.Yes, believe it or not "principled attorney" isn't always an oxymoron. 4.The 1895 U.S. Supreme Court decision, Sparf v. U.S. (also known as Sparf and Hansen v. U.S.) firmly denounced this ancient right, citing more than 100 years of court precedents and legal opinion. Contrary to the mythology of the jury-rights movement, Sparf did not, in any way, uphold the concept that juries have a right to judge the law as well as the facts. However, a resounding dissent by Justice Gray traced jury nullification much farther back into history and showed that such a right did -- and does -- indeed exist. Even the elitist majority, which held that the judge is the sole arbiter of the law, conceded that, since jurors can vote any way they please, they effectively can nullify the law, whether or not anyone else approves. And this is exactly what juries have always done: Slavery and prohibition were, in part, ended by juries' refusal to convict runaway slaves, underground railroad operators and buyers and producers of alcohol. Three juries have refused to convict Dr. Jack Kevorkian, in part because they disagreed with the laws he was accused of breaking. In some areas, prosecutors are finding it increasingly difficult to convict drug users and dealers because juries simply won't deliver the desired verdicts. The Sparf decision can be found on the Internet.=20 Go to http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html In the site's search engine, select the option "Supreme Court Cases 1893+." Then type "Sparf." 5.FIJA, P.O. Box 59, Helmville, Montana 59843, (406) 793-5550, http://www.fija.org/. Prospective jurors call 1-800-TEL-JURY. Also see The Jury Rights Project, http://www.lrt.org/jrp.homepage.htm 6.The Colorado statute and similar statutes in other states are unconstitutional. The Bill of Rights, Article VI, says, "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed..." =A9 1998 Claire Wolfe. This article may be reprinted for non-commercial purposes, as long as it is reprinted in full with no changes whatsoever, and is accompanied by this credit line. Partial or edited reprints may be made with written permission of the author. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #141 *************************