From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #150 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, June 17 1998 Volume 02 : Number 150 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 09:32:31 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: rkba-list: Making Politics on the Backs of One's Children (fwd) On Jun 13, ccurley wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The following article was published in the Casper (Wyoming) Star Tribune today, June 13th. Enjoy. The text, showing edits by the CST, is on the Wyoming libertarian Party Web page at http://www.GeoCities.com/CapitolHill/1799 Making Politics On the Backs Of One's Children Charles Curley The vultures are circling. In 1974, Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) guerrillas made war on Israel by attacking schools and kindergartens. The series of attacks culminated with that on Maalot on May 15th. Three PLO goons shot up a vanload of (Arab) workers. They then entered the school at Maalot, killed the housekeeper, his wife and their child. They then took about 100 children hostage. When rescue forces assaulted the hostage takers, the terrorists blew up explosives and sprayed the children with machine gun fire. 25 people died, 66 more were wounded. Golda Meir said during the Maalot incident, that one does not make politics on the backs of one's children. That is exactly what the gun control freaks are doing now. Children are dying in what appear to be random attacks on government schools throughout the country. And the victim disarmers are using the tragedy to push their discredited, blood-soaked agenda. Their policies are discredited and blood-soaked because it is precisely the policies that they have advocated that make possible such attacks. We know from the studies of Prof. Gary Kleck that Americans use firearms more than two million times a year to stop criminal attacks. We know from the works of Professor John Lott and graduate student David Mustard that prohibitions on concealed carry of guns are responsible for approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and 12,000 robberies every year. Why should schools be any different than the rest of the world? It is well know that gun control utopias like Washington, D.C. and New York City have much higher crime rates than the benighted redneck "gun nut" states like Wyoming, Nevada and Vermont. Of course, the crime rates are so high because those who obey the law cannot defend themselves from those who break the laws, including the gun control laws. What are the government schools but miniature Washington, D.C.s? They are just as bureausclorotic, just as mind-numbing as D.C., except in miniature. And guns are prohibited -- to the law abiding -- on school grounds. Why not go all the way, and put up signs that say, "Child Murdering Scum Welcome Here" around our schools? It should be clear by now that the current spate of school massacres are premeditated by the perpetrators. For example, in the Springfield, Oregon, massacre this Thursday (21 May), Kipland Kinkel went armed with three firearms, and, according to police, a "backpack loaded with ammunition clips (sic) and loose ammunition". And it should also be clear that the police cannot be on duty at the schools at all times to stop these attacks. Nor have they any legal duty to do so. In the Springfield incident, it was students who stopped Kinkel. Jacob and Josh Ryker (17 and 14, respectively) rushed Kinkel with bare hands while he changed magazines on his rifle. Jacob took two 9mm bullets for his trouble. How many more students would have died had not the Ryker brothers taken up responsibility for their own self defense? It was the "gun culture" which the blood-stained victim disarmament lobby so disdains which made possible the Ryker brothers' brave counter-attack. Their father, Robert Ryker, is a U.S. Navy diver who taught his boys firearms and firearms safety. Linda Ryker, their mother, said, "They know how to respect a gun, and I think all of that did lead to the fact that my boys did not panic when they saw them, and they tried to assist and help." And it was a deliberate, brave act for Robert Ryker to wear an NRA cap at the press conference. All four of the Rykers are heroes. The brothers, for doing what they did. Their parents, for preparing them to do it. Nor will you ever see any of the Rykers indiscriminately slaughtering children like unarmed fish in a barrel. It is cowards, not brave men, who attack children. And from this, Charles Schumer, Teddy Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and similar sniveling "right-thinking" people, and their sycophants in the press, will conclude that we have to take guns away from Americans. - -- After the Maalot incident, the Israelis changed their policies. Strict gun control laws left over from the British Mandate were ended. People in the settlements were issue personal arms. Anyone with a clean record could get a concealed carry permit, and many did. Army reservists continued to keep their small arms at home, as the Swiss do. Teachers and kindergarten nurses now started to carry guns. Schools were protected by parents (and often grandparents) guarding them in voluntary shifts. No school group went on a hike or trip without armed guards. The police involved the citizens in a voluntary civil guard project "Mishmar Esrachi", which even had its own sniper teams. The Army taught firearms safety and shooting techniques. These efforts had an effect: PLO attacks became less effective and more costly to the PLO. By the early 1980s, the attacks ceased. As Dr. David Schiller, a former Israeli expert on the attacks put it, "Terrorists and other evildoers don't like risks." Or, as John Lott put it, "Criminals, we found, respond rationally to deterrence threats." The Israelis also saw a connection between the press and the PLO attacks. The press gave the PLO the media attention they wanted to "promote their cause". Mind you, you have to be at least as deranged as prozac patient Kip Kinkel to think that sort of publicity will help your cause, but that's what they believed. And the press gave it to them. According to Schiller, "Now THAT is the underlying 'reason' behind each and every incident that involved killing sprees in schools... from Maalot to Dunblane to Jonesboro." The time has come to stop risking our children in the name of discredited and bloodstained policies. The time has come to stop whimpering and sniveling in cowardice, and take responsibility once again. It is time to take responsibility for our own self defense, and the defense of our neighbors and community. Attacks on our children will continue as along as they are defenseless. Those who pursue policies of victim disarmament are accessories before the fact to such attacks because they prevent the victims from responding with full measure. A .25 ACP in the purse of a teacher is a far more effective deterrent to murderers than all the Handgun Control, Inc., pamphlets in the world. Jacob Ryker is alive in a hospital, not dead in a morgue, because he took full responsibility for protecting himself. Are you willing to do less? -- C^2 I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. - -- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, 1800 A.D. Thomas Jefferson, Patron Saint of the Internet: http://w3.trib.com/~ccurley/Jefferson.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 09:30:45 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Interesting Please Read and Distribute (fwd) On Jun 13, Mike Riddle wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:54:27 -0500, larry ball wrote: >Here is a VERY good article. Read and distribute not only to other >gunners but to the outside world also. Here it is a bit more readably formatted: THE LIBERTARIAN ENTERPRISE Number 35, January 15, 1998 Crank Up The Enola Gay By L. Neil Smith (lneil@ezlink.com) Exclusive to The Libertarian Enterprise So the Japanese (it says here) are ramrodding a drive in the UN to relieve everybody on the planet of their personal weapons. Especially -- it goes without saying -- us ugly Americans. The Japanese, of course, are the exemplars of moral excellence who gang-raped their way across the Asian mainland and ate Allied prisoners during World War II. The Japanese are the paragons of virtue whose government and corporate leaders resign in disgrace (they usually slither back later on, an argument for the earlier tradition of seppuku) with such regularity they could print schedules of it like a railroad. The Japanese are the upholders of decency who let children who show the faintest spark of individuality be beaten into conformity (the practice is called ijime -- "The nail that sticks up shall be pounded down.") by their little schoolmates. The Japanese are the keepers of the public trust who bullied their own folk out of their guns to please a vile, self-serving aristocracy, who routinely torture suspects until they confess, and who subject their citizens to searches of their homes twice a year -- by police fully as corrupt as those of New Orleans -- to make sure no nasty old guns sneaked under the floorboards when nobody was watching. Fact is, the Japanese establishment is terrified of creeping individualism within its own anthill -- their classical and postwar culture, a sick, twisted mishmash of intimidation, brutality, class exploitation, and perversion, is on the verge of collapse -- and is desperately trying to shut the threat off at its source, by destroying its most potently articulate symbol, the gun in private hands. The effort is doomed. The Japanese people are fed up grinding their lives away for the sake of industrial feudalism. Fed up seeing their kids kill themselves when they don't do well on the SATs. Fed up with rapacious taxes and paying higher prices than anyone else in the world for TVs and stereos they make themselves. Fed up with $10 hamburger, rice at twice the world price, and real estate prices that lift my own humble domicile into the multimillion dollar range. Fed up with bosses who conduct "business" by getting drunk in restaurants where the main attraction is groping and licking the parts of nude female dancers that can be pressed through openings in a chickenwire barrier. But I digress. All this puts me in an awkward position. Everything I own that uses electricity is Japanese. So is my car, an '84 Subaru wagon. I like Japanese stuff. My longing for a new Toyota Land Cruiser is a palpable presence in our home, like Harvey the Rabbit. My wife feels the same about a Mitsubishi Spyder (but only the one with the big engine). In the ordinary course of events, our fortunes currently being on the rise, we'd have acquired both vehicles, uncomfortably close to a hundred grand worth of rolling stock, sometime in the next few years. We've worked hard, we've waited a long time, we deserve it. But now we're not so sure. To an extent unappreciated by the most cynical American student of politics, the keiretsu or zaibatsu, a handful of corporations that comprise "Japan, Inc." are the Japanese government; democracy means about as much there as it does in Mexico. What the Japanese government and its UN delegation want is what the zaibatsu want. If the Japanese government wants to disarm us, it's because Toyota and Mitsubishi (and half a dozen others) want to disarm us. The US government always claims that every stupid war this country ever blundered into was to save the Constitution and the Bill of Rights from foreign devils (the British come to mind) who wanted to destroy them. That being the case, why shouldn't the average Joes and Janes coerced into fighting those wars regard Japanese anti-gun activity as an act of war? Let me repeat it so you'll know I meant it: why shouldn't we regard Japanese efforts to destroy the Bill of Rights as an act of war? Why shouldn't we carpet-nuke their crappy little islands from one end to the other this time and obliterate a culture -- I refuse to say "civilization" -- as worthy of such treatment as the Aztecs were? Well for one thing, because we're the good-guys. We just don't do that kind of thing. We still feel guilty about the pair of puny A-bombs we used to save millions of lives (most of them Japanese) in 1945. For another, we're individualists. We understand that it isn't the Japanese people who are the problem (they love guns) but the corrupt and evil leaders of a corrupt and evil corporate and political structure that was forced on them, largely by us. In fact, it's the likelihood that the Japanese people are growing restive, and worst of all, individualistic, that has their corrupt and evil leaders on the rag. So what should we do? Well, we already have a predisposition to feel ambivalent about imported products, especially Japanese products, and especially automobiles. On one hand, we love the damned things, they're pretty, they work, and even with the most punitive tariffs our own corrupt and evil leaders can levy against them, they're still a bargain. On the other, until the Japanese bought the unions off by building factories here (neatly dodging tariffs, as well), Japanese cars used to get torched in Detroit parking lots. Plenty of people still vividly remember World War II. Many more have learned enough about Japanese politics and culture to resist to the last breath any attempt to impose them here. For those determined to resist, Japan's sociopolitics leave it uniquely vulnerable. If, for example, Detroit's Big Three all went belly-up tomorrow, the US government (perhaps this is unfortunate) would react lugubriously, but would also go on without a hiccup. Ayn Rand and Robert LeFevre would have maintained that Japan -- often cited as an ideal "partnership" between big government and big business -- is the ultimate expression of fascism. In Japan, when one of the Big Eight gets a sniffle, the state mainlines Nyquil, because there is no meaningful distinction between Corporate and Official Japan. One of my correspondents compares it to lichen, a symbiotic combination of algae and fungus. Now what do you suppose a year or two of depressed auto sales -- if we inavoidably linked it to Japan's asinine gun polices -- might have? I'm (reluctantly) willing to postpone purchase of my Land Cruiser, to consider buying a Suburban like G. Gordon Liddy and my mother, or even look into the new SUV by Mercedes. I notice that my wife's been eyeing that little BMW that looks like a shark. My suspicion, in this age of the MBA, is that if Japan, suffered as little as a 2 or 3 percent drop in their American auto sales, they'd be pathetically willing to straighten up and fly right. What does "straighten up and fly right" consist of? For openers, they would cease their worldwide personal disarmament advocacy. And it would be good if they withdrew from the UN altogether. We're going to do it, sooner or later, and there's no time like right now to start a trend. After profuse and abject apologies, the Japanese government would adopt the Bill of Rights and make a point of seeing that their people acquire guns, preferably from us -- no registration, Vermont Carry only. Finally, the architects of the current policy would be "invited" to do the right thing, which, in Japan, I'll remind you, involves a long, razor-sharp knife and a good friend standing by to behead whatever's left. Failure on any one of these points will be a signal for the boycott to continue. People often ask me what the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus is for, what its coordinators across the country can do. Well, they (and anybody else who wants to help) can start by copying this column to everyone they know. Permission is hereby granted to reproduce it anywhere as long as it remains unaltered and credit is given. Above all, send it where it'll do the most good: Japanese diplomatic establishments and your local purveyors of Japanese road machines. My dad fought World War II and was a prisoner of war. One of my uncles was crippled and another died in a submarine. They all believed (because the government told them and in those days folks believed it) that they were fighting the Japanese and Germans for our rights. Starve Toyota, feed the Bill of Rights. Detroit will love us for it and so (for once) will the unions. And by liberating ourselves, we liberate the Japanese people. Which I guess beats nuking them until they glow. Novelist and political essayist L. Neil Smith is the only Libertarian ever to be called a "thug" within the pages of the LP News. He's also been characterized by a disgruntled reader as having written the "single most repugnant ... piece of tripe ... ever seen in an American newspaper." In his spare time, he's the award-winning author of The Probability Broach, Pallas, Henry Martyn, and Bretta Matryn and 15 other novels, as well as founder and publisher of The Libertarian Enterprise. Order his books from Amazon.com via "The Webley Page" at http://www.webleyweb.com/lneil/lnsbooks.html#amazon, or give Laissez Faire Books a toll-free call at 1-800-326-0996. "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." - -- Henry St. George Tucker (in Blackstone's Commentaries) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 09:31:35 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Survey - need pro-gun support (fwd) On Jun 13, Gary Stocker wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > We have learned that the Weekly CGI Web Poll concerns opinions about > firearms and firearms laws (gun control). If possible, please visit > this site before 6/15 so that our side can be heard in proper > proportion. The poll is at: > > http://www.dreamscape.com/throb/index.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 98 20:46:10 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Resource from the anti-gunners (fwd) On Jun 13, Bob Mueller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Courtesy of Join-Together, we hear that--- "To assist you in your efforts, we have prepared this Sample Law section outlining a handful of gun laws which are commonly introduced at the state level. These laws are intended to provide you with sample legislation that has been successfully enacted in various states. " They also mention a brochure: Addressing Gun Violence Through Local Ordinances: A Legal Resource Manual for California Cities and Counties - this from the Legal Community Against Violence in SF, CA. It might be worthwhile to browse through some of the info there and use it to be go ahead and get ready to block any of these proposals if/when they are introduced in your area. Sorry I don't have a better URL, but they use frames at JTO, so go to http://www1.jointogether.org/gv/ , and get to the Strategy |Public Policy section. ______________________________________ Bob Mueller Second Amendment Research Network - http://www.infinet.com/~bmueller/Index.html D, 6/52 ADA Alumni Association Commander http://www.gather.com/d652ada/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:05:04 -0700 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Stallone on Guns in America QUOTE BY SYLVESTER STALLONE ABOUT GUNS MRC 6/12=20 The only way to make America safe: go house to house and confiscate=20 every gun. Reacting to the shooting death of Phil Hartman, actor=20 Sylvester Stallone who is best known for glamorizing in his Rambo=20 films military weapons not even the NRA wants legal, urged the repeal=20 of the 2nd amendment. MRC entertainment analyst Tom Johnson transcribed his ranting from a=20 June 8 segment on Access Hollywood, the show carried by NBC-owned=20 stations and syndicated to other markets.=20 Stallone conceded, "I know we use guns in films," but insisted the=20 time has come "to be a little more accountable and realize that this=20 is an escalating problem that's eventually going to lead to, I think,=20 urban warfare." Access Hollywood then showed a clip from a comment he made in London=20 a few weeks ago: "Until America, door to door, takes every handgun,=20 this is what you're gonna have. It's pathetic. It really is pathetic.=20 It's sad. We're living in the Dark Ages over there." "Over there"? Yes, the man who wants to control what Americans have=20 in their homes is now living in England. Back to Stallone's interview=20 with the show, he demanded that the 2nd amendment be abandoned: "It=20 has to be stopped, and someone really has to go on the line, a=20 certain dauntless political figure, and say, =91It's ending, it's over,=20 all bets are off. It's not 200 years ago, we don't need this anymore,=20 and the rest of the world doesn't have it. Why should we?" - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:46:34 -0400 From: Tanya Metaksa Subject: Re: Survey - need pro-gun support (fwd) At 09:31 AM 6/13/98 -0800, you wrote: >On Jun 13, Gary Stocker wrote: > thanks for letting me know about the poll.... Tanya - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Re: Survey - need pro-gun support (fwd) On Sun, 14 Jun 1998, Tanya Metaksa wrote: > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:46:34 -0400 > From: Tanya Metaksa > Reply-To: roc@lists.xmission.com > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Survey - need pro-gun support (fwd) > > At 09:31 AM 6/13/98 -0800, you wrote: > >On Jun 13, Gary Stocker wrote: > > > thanks for letting me know about the poll.... > Tanya I am curious about that poll. For a poll that is ostensibly for the purpose of determining political attitudes towards gun control, why is it relevant to ask: 1. Do you own any firearms? 2. What type(s) of firearms do you own? It was also curious that the distractor "None of your Business" was not available to answer these questions. Perhaps someone can give a rational reason for the possible correlations to be developed by that poll, and for what purpose. - ----- Harry Barnett - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:57:08 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fwd: Hearthside, June 15, These Colors Don't Run >From: "Hearthside Family Publications" >To: "Our friends at Hearthside"hearth@hancock.net >Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:11:49 +0000 >X-Distribution: Moderate >Subject: Hearthside, June 15, These Colors Don't Run >Reply-to: hearth@hancock.net >Priority: normal > > >Hearthside, June 15, These Colors Don't Run > >Yesterday was flag day. Ours flew high at Hearthside from sunup to >sundown. Coming home from church, we saw 5 more on the 11 mile trip >through the countryside. Not a good showing, but good enough to >demonstrate there are still a few "Mike's" out there. > >Thanks to the forwards that brought this post. It is worth a little >extra length in the Daily Reflections. > >"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things >not seen." Hebrews 11:1 > >Dave and Helen Delany > >"Honoring the American Flag" > Condensed from a speech by Leo K. Thorsness, > recipient of The Congressional Medal of Honor. > >You've probably seen the bumper sticker somewhere along the road. It >depicts an American Flag, accompanied by the words "These colors >don't run." I'm always glad to see this, because it reminds me of >an incident from my confinement in North Vietnam at the Hao Lo POW >Camp, or the "Hanoi Hilton," as it became known. Then a Major in the >U.S. Air Force, I had been captured and imprisoned from 1967-1973. >Our treatment had been frequently brutal. After three years, however, >the beatings and torture became less frequent. > >During the last year, we were allowed outside most days for a couple >of minutes to bathe. We showered by drawing water from a concrete >tank with a homemade bucket. One day as we all stood by the tank, >stripped of our clothes, a young Naval pilot named Mike Christian >found the remnants of a handkerchief in a gutter that ran under the >prison wall. Mike managed to sneak the grimy rag into our cell and >began fashioning it into a flag. > >Over time we all loaned him a little soap, and he spent days cleaning >the material. We helped by scrounging and stealing bits and pieces of >anything he could use. At night, under his mosquito net, Mike worked >on the flag. He made red and blue from ground-up roof tiles and tiny >amounts of ink and painted the colors onto the cloth with watery rice >glue. Using thread from his own blanket and a homemade bamboo >needle, he sewed on stars. > >Early in the morning a few days later, when the guards were not >alert, he whispered loudly from the back of our cell, "Hey gang, look >here." He proudly held up this tattered piece of cloth, waving it as >if in a breeze. If you used your imagination, you could tell it was >supposed to be an American flag. When he raised that smudgy fabric, >we automatically stood straight and saluted, our chests puffing out, >and more than a few eyes had tears. > >About once a week the guards would strip us, run us outside and go >through our clothing. During one of those shakedowns, they found >Mike's flag. We all knew what would happen. That night they came for >him. > >Night interrogations were always the worst. They opened the cell door >and pulled Mike out. We could hear the beginning of the torture >before they even had him in the torture cell. They beat him most of >the night. > >About daylight they pushed what was left of him back through the cell >door. He was badly broken; even his voice was gone. Within two weeks, >despite the danger, Mike scrounged another piece of cloth and began >another flag. The Stars and Stripes, our national symbol, was worth >the sacrifice to him. Now whenever I see the flag, I think of Mike >and the morning he first waved that tattered emblem of a nation. It >was then, thousands of miles from home in a lonely prison cell, that >he showed us what it is to be truly free. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >--- > "Liberty Begins at Hearthside" >Copyright: Hearthside Family Publications > PO Box 212 Conklin NY 13748 > http://www.hancock.net/~freedom > * * * * * > Free! > ><> To Subscribe (or unsubscribe) > Send request to hearth@hancock.net > and ask about Hearth Tabs: >regular doses of historical perspective! > Free! > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 10:35:00 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: Interesting Please Read and Distribute (fwd) Snipped mike and bills header > > >THE LIBERTARIAN ENTERPRISE Number 35, January 15, 1998 > > >Crank Up The Enola Gay > >By L. Neil Smith (lneil@ezlink.com) > >Exclusive to The Libertarian Enterprise BACK ISSUES of The Libertarian Enterprise (TLE) are available at http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/index.html. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:09:29 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: Survey - results as of about 11am PST the results as of about 11am PST: Total Respondents: 2878 Do you currently have one or more firearms in your household? Yes 2204 votes 78% No, but we used to 128 votes 5% No, we never have and probablynever will 386 votes 14% No, we never have but we might (or would) consider getting one someday 104 votes 4% (Please note: percentages do not add to 100% due to rounding.) What kinds of firearms do you currently own or have you previously owned? Pistol 2096 votes 32% Shotgun 1886 votes 29% Rifle 2109 votes 32% Other 438 votes 7% What's the primary reason you own (or previously owned) a firearm? Protection/self defense 922 votes 39% Hunting 292 votes 2% Sport/Recreation 947 votes 40% Job requirement (police, security, etc) 35 votes 1% Other 162 votes 7% Have you, your friends, or any member of your family ever fell victim to a firearm injury? Yes 347 votes 12% No 2507 votes 88% Have you, your friends, or any member of your family ever been threatened with a gun? Yes 908 votes 32% No 1948 votes 68% Do you think owning a firearm for self-defense is a good idea? Yes 2392 votes 84% No 467 votes 16% On a scale of 1 to 5, please let us know how important you think it is for the government to address gun control? 1 means you want little/no government involvement, 5 means you want the government to play a large role in it. 1 1791 votes 62% 2 329 votes 11% 3 235 votes 8% 4 165 votes 6% 5 349 votes 12% Is the government currently doing too much, too little or just enough when it comes to addressing gun control? Too much 2138 votes 75% Too little 561 votes 20% Just enough 163 votes 6% Should a person be required to obtain a police permit before being able to purchase a firearm? Yes 879 votes 31% No 1981 votes 69% Should a person be required to attend and pass a certified training program on proper/responsible firearm use before being able to purchase a firearm? Yes 1265 votes 44% No 1588 votes 56% Do you support the Brady bill, a law which poses a five day waiting period and tighter eligibility requirements for firearm ownership? Yes 692 votes 24% No 2002 votes 70% Don't know enough about the Brady bill to say 174 votes 6% In your opinion, what's the minimum age someone should be before they can legally own a firearm? 15 or under 163 votes 6% 16 216 votes 8% 17 16 votes 1% 18 999 votes 35% 19 16 votes 1% 20 14 votes < 1% 21 498 votes 17% Over 21 383 votes 13% There should be no minimum age limit 558 votes 19% Have you ever carried a firearm in your car for protection? Yes, I've carried a firearm in my car before 1623 votes 57% No, but I've considered carrying a firearm in my car 472 votes 17% No, and I probably never will 760 votes 27% Do you think the National Rifle Association has too much influence, too little influence, or the right amount of influence over gun control laws in the United States? Too much influence 417 votes 15% Too little influence 1702 votes 60% Right amount of influence 378 votes 13% I'm not sure 363 votes 13% How much of a reduction in violent crime do you think would result with tighter gun control laws? A large reduction 194 votes 7% A moderate reduction 292 votes 10% A slight reduction 202 votes 7% No reduction 2176 votes 76% On a scale of 1 to 5, how worried are you (or would you be) about sending your child(ren) to school in today's day and age? 1 means you (would) have little or no worry, 5 means you (would) worry a lot about it. 1 1024 votes 36% 2 543 votes 19% 3 635 votes 22% 4 306 votes 11% 5 344 votes 12% Are guns appearing in schools today a concern for you? Yes, it is a large concern for me 1002 votes 35% Yes, it is a moderate concern for me 611 votes 21% Yes, it is a slight concern for me 740 votes 26% No, it is of no concern to me 509 votes 18% In your opinion, is the problem of guns appearing in schools as serious as the media would have you believe? Yes, the gun problem in our schools is just as bad or worse than the media's spin on it. 703 votes 25% No, the gun problem is not as bad or "out of control" as the media would have us believe 2151 votes75% If there was a gun violation rumor by a student at your child's school, would you pull your child out of school for the day? Yes 967 votes 34% No 1868 votes 66% Please rate this week's poll on a scale of 1 to 5. 5 459 votes 16% 4 725 votes 25% 3 983 votes 35% 2 545 votes 19% 1 133 votes 5% - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:10:25 +0500 From: "Brad Alpert" <1911a1@gte.net> Subject: Photos of Philly protestors I got my photos from NRA-CON developed and posted 6 photos of protestors working outside the convention hall. http://home1.gte.net/1911a1/pix-2.htm if you want to take a look and try not to gag. Brad - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:13:03 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: Photos of Philly protestors Excellent, it's always best to start off the day with a laugh and thanks to Brads excellent photography I'm cheered by the images of our enemies. Frankly, I'd have been tempted to sneak out there and lead them all in a touching rendition of "We are the world, we are the pinheads..." but that may have been a little -too- touching. Sorry I couldn't make it to the convention, thanks for putting the pictures up. Boyd Kneeland At 9:10 AM +0500 6/17/98, Brad Alpert wrote: >I got my photos from NRA-CON developed and posted 6 photos of >protestors working outside the convention hall. > >http://home1.gte.net/1911a1/pix-2.htm > >if you want to take a look and try not to gag. > >Brad > > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 10:46:03 +0500 From: "Brad Alpert" <1911a1@gte.net> Subject: Re: Photos of Philly protestors > Excellent, it's always best to start off the day with a laugh and thanks to > Brads excellent photography I'm cheered by the images of our enemies. > Frankly, I'd have been tempted to sneak out there and lead them all in a > touching rendition of "We are the world, we are the pinheads..." but that > may have been a little -too- touching. Sorry I couldn't make it to the > convention, thanks for putting the pictures up. Boyd Kneeland Thanks, Boyd! What's interesting is that there were more NRA people outside who'd stepped out to take a smoke than there were protestors. By the way, the group photos were taken on Friday (the people were chanting "GO AWAY NRA! GO AWAY NRA"! but they did not reappear on Saturday or Sunday. These were folks who didn't have to miss work to be there on Friday, if you know what I mean. Brad - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:57:26 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fwd: CNN threatens former military adviser >Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:08:12 -0400 >From: E Pluribus Unum >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network >Subject: CNN threatens former military adviser > >Wednesday, June 17, 1998 > >WorldNetDaily Exclusive > >CNN threatens former military adviser > >General quit in protest of Arnett Vietnam War special > >Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com > >By Joseph Farah > > Retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Perry Smith, who quit as CNN's military >adviser in protest of Peter Arnett's report alleging the U.S. murdered >defectors and used nerve gas during the Vietnam War, is now being forced >into silence by the network at the threat of a lawsuit, WorldNetDaily >has learned. > > Smith protested to CNN's top executives that he was deliberately >excluded from the production process of the special program on >"Operation Tailwind" called, "The Valley of Death," airing June 7. After >the program, Smith demanded of Chief Executive Officer Tom Johnson that >CNN retract the central allegations and issue letters of apology to >veterans whose testimony had been misrepresented. When his >demand was rejected, Smith resigned. > > "There was a time when CNN had quite high standards," Smith wrote. "The >downhill slide in the past year has been frightening." > > Smith had served as a consultant to CNN since the Persian Gulf War. > > "I had tried very hard for a week to convince (top executives) to do a >major retraction, but to no avail," said Smith. "Lot's of people at CNN >were solidly with me on this, but not the top bosses and the team that >put that terrible special together. There is an outside chance that my >resigning in protest may finally get attention -- only time will tell." > > But that was before Smith was told by CNN lawyers, in no uncertain >terms, to shut up. The official word from CNN's public relations >department is that Smith has "retired." The network is also telling some >who ask about the general's departure that he was, indeed, "the military >consultant on the Tailwind story." > > On June 15, Smith went public with his resignation in a letter to his >West Point classmates: > > "I wanted you all to know that I have just quit CNN," he wrote. "For >a solid week I tried to convince the top bosses that the special last >Sunday night was profoundly wrong. I have not been able to do so." > > His resignation and decision to speak out were prompted, Smith >wrote, by a letter he received from a Vietnam vet [at] Fort Benning. > > "So many of the men of SOG (Studies and Observations >Group) that ran those dangerous missions are dying now as a result of >the wounds received, the diseases that ran through them, malaria, >dengue, etc., the physical abuse one's body had to absorb in the >performance of duties, that this (the CNN special) is having a terrible >effect on them," the letter read. "Please don't let their last thoughts >be that once again their sacrifices were in vain, and that the press can >once again crucify us as they did 30 years ago." > > Smith's letter to classmates continued: "There is an outside >chance that my resigning in protest will finally get the attention of >the top guy and he will run a full reatraction. A few of his people >snuck this special by him -- a real sad story. You might be interested >in knowing that a lot of the lower level troops at CNN were with me on >this." > > Smith urged Johnson to handwrite personal letters of apology to the >military men who tried so hard to convince Arnett, and co-producer April >Oliver, that their premise for the story was wrong. > > "This is the very least you can do for these brave and honest >Americans," he wrote in a letter to the top CNN executive. > > His letter continued: "I think it is very important to remind >you, Tom, that there were two very special types of Air Force personnel >in Southeast Asia. Their primary mission was to save lives of downed >crewmen or of infiltration teams in great distress. They often took very >great risks; many were shot down and killed. These two groups were the >A-1 Sandies and Spads and the Jolly Greens. The only time I wept with >joy during my 180 combat missions was the moment the Jollies and the >Sandies rescued my leader who was shot down and badly wounded over Laos. > > "On 14 September, 1970, two A-1 pilots, at great risk to their >lives, were largely responsible for saving over 100 lives," he >continued. "CNN has accused the most heroic of the heroic of using >lethal gas to kill fellow Americans. The only analogy I can think of >would be if CNN accused two Medal of Honor winners with extreme >cowardice -- it is that bad, Tom." > > On Tuesday, June 16, Smith confirmed in an e-mail that CNN officials >were attempting to silence him in his public criticism of the network. >Most consultants in similar situations sign confidentiality agreements >that would prevent them from such criticism. Before taking off for >vacation and refusing several interview requests, Smith e-mailed a >friend who has warned of likely efforts by CNN to intimidate through >threats of a lawsuit. He said: "It has already happened. I am welcoming >a chance. What a great trial that would be." > > CNN's report alleged the U.S. government used lethal nerve gas during >a mission to kill American defectors in Laos in 1970. Arnett claimed to >have based his report on eight months of work and 200 interviews. Yet, >the sensational charges hung primarily on the claims of one man -- lt. >Robert Van Buskirk, a platoon leader in "Operation Tailwind." Van >Buskirk recalled throwing a white phosphorous grenade down a >hole to kill two suspected U.S. defectors during the 1970 mission. He >also claimed to have witnessed the use of the nerve agent Sarin gas on a >base camp used by a group of defectors. > > Doubts were cast upon the claims when another Vietnam Specil >Forces vet, Tom Marzullo, pointed out that Van Buskirk had authored a >book in 1983 called "Operation Tailwind," in which he made no mention of >the defectors or the Sarin gas. Van Buskirk's superiors also discounted >his story. > > CNN also failed to mention that shortly after his tour of duty in >Vietnam, Van Buskirk was arrested by U.S. Army Criminal Investigative >Division officials in Germany for arms trafficking and forced to leave >the military. > > Other troops and officers involved in the mission have come >forward to criticize Van Buskirk, Arnett's CNN special and the notion >that nerve gas was used. Even the historical records of the North >Vietnamese army make no claims that the U.S. ever deployed lethal >chemical weapons in its conduct of the war or in the Laotian incursion. > > Arnett served as CNN's "Man in Baghdad" during the Persian Gulf War. He >was granted unusual access to Saddam Hussein's Iraq. In a report last >September, Arnett also suggested U.S. Special Forces had used chemical >weapons on the battlefield in Vietnam. Some media critics and >commentators have characterized his reports from Baghdad and Southeast >Asia as "anti-American" in tone. >-- >****************************************************************** > E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group > P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 > Grove City, OH 43123 > >Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse > 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) > >http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com >****************************************************************** > - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #150 *************************