From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #156 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, July 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 156 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Jun 98 11:49:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: Rambo the hypocrite (fwd) On Jun 28, Charles Riggs wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In reference to the recent remarks attributed to Sylvester Stallone about rounding up all the guns in this country, this is from an associate who's in law enforcement in California. ************************* Subject: Rambo the hypocrite I find it rather ironic that Mr. Stallone would like to confiscate firearms back in the US. If one would run him in the state of California, he would come back with dozens and dozens of firearms under his name. Point of fact, he has a CCW and would always carry concealed. I know this for a fact because I have stopped him twice (vehicle stops) and been involved in the countless calls when his bodyguards would beat the shit out of someone when his ex, Brigdette, would start fights. Stallone would always appear and would tell the handling unit, out of courtesy, he was carrying. Of course his bodyguards, all off duty or ex cops, would also be carrying. Once again the elite and privileged mandate their hypocrisies on the masses. Charles Riggs- Gunsite 1991- DVC! "Stop Crime- Be Armed- Fight Back!" Ky. Coalition to Carry Concealed (KC3) IDPA (Ky) - NRA - GOA Visit http://www.kc3.com/sheep.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 15:20:03 -0700 From: Liberty or Death Subject: (fwd) Really Good Gun News Forwarded... >To all true friends of liberty: > >One of the most interesting things about news reports is the way that >the same basic information can be presented and yet tell very different >tales. > >My all-time favorite has to be the Carter-era news release on the >standby gas rationing system that was then being implemented. In this >particular story, it was pointed out that the rationing system would be >triggered by a 20% shortfall in the nation's gas supplies. The system >was designed to ensure that every American would receive 70% of his >normal supply. > >So what we had was a system that would automatically turn a 20% >shortfall into a 30% shortfall. By careful presentation of the facts, >however, it made it look like this was a good deal for the average joe. >Incidentally, all of the gas rationing coupons had the same picture of >George Washington as is found on the one-dollar bill. They could >therefore be exchanged, not just for 70% of your usual gallon of gas, >but also for four quarters from any bill changing machine. Thus >completely useless for their designed purpose, the coupons were stored >for many years at the Pueblo Army Depot in southern Colorado and >eventually destroyed by burning inside the ammunition igloos in which >they were kept. > >The point of all this is that there is often a surprising amount of >good news to be found in what might otherwise be considered as >disastrous tidings. Take, for example, the recent Brady bill stories. >That the administration is interested in expanding Brady provisions to >rifles and shotguns is surely not welcome intelligence. That either >230,000 (according to some sources) or 17 (according to others) >convicted felons have been thwarted in their desire for a handgun is >really beside the point. Who cares how many have been denied a gun? >Let's look, instead, at the real story here. Slipped in to those >Clinton-sponsored stories about how many bad guys have been disarmed and >how the program should be expanded is some really, really encouraging >news. > >Over 10,000,000 Brady checks have been performed in the past four >years. Imagine! Ten million handgun sales (minus somewhere between 17 >and 230,000). Two and a half million a year! Nearly 7,000 a day, >including Sundays and holidays. By god, it makes you PROUD to be an >American, doesn't it? We're still number one at something and it's >something that's damned important, to boot. > >Imagine equipping the United States Army with just one year's worth of >handgun sales. Every soldier would have five handguns strapped to his >waist. Imagine equipping them with all of the handguns sold since Bill >Clinton took office. You'd need a line of native bearers to carry those >28 handguns. A good-sized truck to carry each soldier's share of the >rifles and shotguns. A small convoy for his portion of the ammunition >and reloading components. > >Let's not forget that these ten million Brady guns are just those sold >through FFL dealers. Think of the additional millions, perhaps tens of >millions, that changed hands between one private owner and another. >These are the statistics that really matter. Do you think Bill Clinton >really cares whether even one armed thug is gotten off the streets (I >mean someone other than Franciso Duran)? For the first time, >amalgamated statistics are landing on his desk and he can quantify just >how "successful" his effort at disarming America has been. At the same >time, he can blandly slip the real story (America's frantic rearmament) >past the inattentive patriots who are too busy moaning about the next >wave of evil NWO legislation. > >I say: Thanks, Bill. You've done more to awaken America and cause >even the most zombie-like citizen to rush out and buy a gun than any >other living human being. Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Mark Koernke, John >Trochmann, et al ain't got nothing on you, baby. You are the merchants >of death's number one butt boy and the biggest spoke in the wheel of >your own utopia. Nice going, moron. Please don't come over to our side >because we want to win. Millions, I repeat: millions, of Americans who >would never have considered owning a gun now have a little bit of >insurance tucked underneath the bed. So don't give up on your fellow >citizens just yet. We're halfway home if you don't alienate them with >stupid human militia tricks. > >I dare say that the percentage of Americans who own guns is at an >all-time high. The number of Americans who own a gun is certainly at an >all-time high. The number of guns owned by Americans is certainly at an >all-time high. The quality (and military usefulness) of guns owned by >Americans is at an all-time high. The stockpile of ammunition and >reloading components owned by Americans is at an earth-shattering, most >Third-world continents can't even come close, all-time high. Don't >whine about the Brady bill. After all, the primary proponent of this gun >control legislation is someone who is brain-damaged. Rational arguments >just aren't going to work on someone who's only running on half-a-lobe. >They don't make sense to most liberals and network correspondents >either. Hmmm, I wonder why that is? > >Let's look at another interesting story-- the New Black Panther Party's >avowed defense against the Klan in Jasper, Texas. Why is this so >objectionable to so many patriots? It seems like capital news to me. Up >to now, the media has been able to portray the militia as some sort of >funky white suburban street gang. Having a highly-publicized appearance >of a new black militia is of tremendous value to those of us who are >dedicated to the restoration of constitutional liberty. I welcome any >and all who are willing to make their stand for freedom. I especially >welcome those whom the liberal media dare not portray as right-wing >lunatics. > >These are not the branded "Uncle Tom" black conservatives but the real >McCoy radical activist left proclaiming themselves as a militia. See >how much ground we have gained. Even those who do not agree with us >politically now find advantage in using our methods and rhetoric. When >our opponents must fly our colors in order to garner popular support-- >they have already lost. Whatever victory they attain will redound to >our credit and not to theirs. We should support these efforts to the >absolute limits of our abilities. > >There is a line in the Battle Hymn of the Republic that goes: "I have >seen him in the watchfires of a hundred circling camps..." Someone >finally shows up to build a blaze next to ours and we want to turn them >in for playing with matches. Get real. Get your priorities straight. > >There is a vast awakening in America. It would be even vaster if it >weren't for the legions of morons we have allowed to shelter under our >banners. They have to go if we are ever to make this thing work. So >often we make the mistake of going for numbers, numbers right now-- >without realizing that for every Christian Identity or Republic of Texas >loser in our ranks, there are dozens, maybe even hundreds, of more >like-minded patriots who will never swell our ranks for fear of >contamination by these dangerous anti-American fanatics. People with >money. People with important connections. People whose help we >desperately need but aren't going to get. People who won't touch us >with a ten-foot-pole because of our hobnobbing with nazis. > >Don't kid yourself. Look at deeds, not words. None of these Identity >swine love the United States. They all seek for a New World Order of >their own-- a successor state to be built on the ruins of a failed >America. The destruction of America is a crucial element of their >plans-- yet they have neither the numbers or the resources to make their >twisted dreams of a racial-religious empire a reality without the help >of those unwitting dupes in the militia. You wonder why the FBI and the >ATF are so interested in the militias? Well, wonder no more. If you >harbor traitors in your ranks, you yourself have earned a traitor's >wage. > >This is a struggle in which only the most virtuous will prevail. It is >a struggle between love and hatred. If you do not love your fellow man. >if you do not love America, if you do not value the mighty deeds of your >forefathers, you are not going to win. To all of you who know that >America belongs to those who are willing to fight for her in her hour of >greatest need, I say: Let us go forward together. > >The Union forever > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= >Unsub info - send e-mail to majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com, with >"unsubscribe liberty-and-justice" in the body (not the subject) >Liberty-and-Justice list-owner is Mike Goldman > > - - Monte - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Let the sea roar and its fulness, The world and those who dwell in it. Let the rivers clap their hands; Let the mountains sing together for joy before the Lord. For He is coming to judge the earth; He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with equity. - Psalm 98 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jun 98 16:10:05 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: gun poll (fwd) On Jun 29, Josh Amos wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.thirdage.com/polls/?lmenu We are getting wiped on this one too. Josh [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 07:29:32 -0700 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: gun poll (fwd) Bill Vance wrote: > > On Jun 29, Josh Amos wrote: > > http://www.thirdage.com/polls/?lmenu > > We are getting wiped on this one too. > > Josh When the polling question is worded as it is, to wit: "Do we need new gun legislation or are the existing laws--if enforced--enough to stop the violent gun crimes on our streets?" We can do anything but get wiped out. This question equates gun-control legislation with reducing violent crime. As anyone with a 2-digit IQ who takes time to think about it knows, these 2 ideas aren't connected, or even on the same subject. It's not a matter of either gun control - or - violent gun crimes, one or the other must occur. You can't beat a poll designed to produce a political result. Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:55:56 -0700 From: Boyd Kneeland Subject: Re: gun poll (fwd) The question you see when you go there and hit the "submit your oppinion" poll link, the question is: "I agree. We need new gun control legislation. The old laws obviously aren't working." Obviously twisted, but if we wait for a rationally worded poll to express an opinion, well, I hope your retirement fund covers interent access : ) As of 7:33, and a good 10 minutes for their CGI to produce the page, the results were: strongly agree 54 ..........agree 3 ......undecided 1 .......disagree 3 strongly disagree 38 as of 7:33 PST the results were: At 7:29 AM -0700 6/30/98, Skip Leuschner wrote: >Bill Vance wrote: >> >> On Jun 29, Josh Amos wrote: >> > >> http://www.thirdage.com/polls/?lmenu >> >> We are getting wiped on this one too. >> >> Josh > >When the polling question is worded as it is, to wit: > >"Do we need new gun legislation or are the existing laws--if > enforced--enough to stop the violent gun crimes on our streets?" > >We can do anything but get wiped out. > >This question equates gun-control legislation with reducing >violent crime. As anyone with a 2-digit IQ who takes time >to think about it knows, these 2 ideas aren't connected, or >even on the same subject. It's not a matter of either gun >control - or - violent gun crimes, one or the other must occur. > >You can't beat a poll designed to produce a political result. > >Skip. > >- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 14:26:19 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Yet another gun poll (fwd) On Jun 30, Jeff Quinton wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.palmettojournal.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 14:24:01 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Time Magazine Poll (fwd) On Jun 30, Richard Hartman wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] There are five questions, just under 5000 responses so far, and the numbers are in our favor. So are the comments on their bulletin board. Let's keep them that way. Remember, politicians use modern Clinton "poll-itics" to pick safe legislative targets. Let's make certain every such poll shows that more anti-gun laws will be met with the same kind of response they heard in November 1994. http://www.pathfinder.com/time/polls/gunpoll.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 14:27:09 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: gun poll (fwd) On Jun 30, Harry Gilbert wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Josh Amos wrote: > > At 07:04 PM 6/29/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Josh Amos wrote: > >> > >> http://www.thirdage.com/polls/?lmenu > >> > >> We are getting wiped on this one too. > >> > >> Josh > >I wonder... 80% of the comments are against additional gun laws, yet > >the poll shows 67% in favor of more gun laws..... > > Funny isn't it? > > Josh I no longer bother too much about these polls, figuring most are either carefully worded to obtain a predetermined (anti-gun) result, or will be trumpeted if anti-gun and suppressed if they show no anti-gun response. Besides, even here there is an urging to fool the poll with multiple responses, so why would I trust ANY number the poll generates?.... Reminds me of the NRA -- most of my friends and acquantenances are leery of "the winning team" yet NRA publicizes that 67% are solidly behind LaPierre and crew. Come to think of it, isn't 67% the magic 2-sigma value?...... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 16:08:57 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Chinese Gospel According To Bill (fwd) On Jun 30, Exegesis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Exegesis A Compass For Moral Excellence Published Worldwide From Washington=20 July 1, 1998=20 The Chinese Gospel According To Bill These are humid days in Washington. Almost daily, a massive thunderstorm washes away the stifling hot air. As with everything in the nation's capital, the symbolism is inescapable. One cannot help but notice the gathering storm clouds. The portents suggest that a gigantic storm is on the way. =20 The Elite are preparing. A few days ago, an extraordinary cast assembled here for apparently unconnected reasons. Following the $1 million fundraising visit of Gov. George Bush, in rolled Mikhail Gorbachev, Margaret Thatcher, Ex-President George Bush, Steve Forbes and Dan Quayle, who took the opportunity to announce a 2000 run for the White House. Such a pity to see a good fellow waste his time and energy. The absentee in the Elite Club was President Clinton, who has been reporting to Head Office in Beijing. =20 While there, halo and autocue in place, the Reverend Clinton has resumed his lapsed preaching career. As we already know, Mr. Clinton is fond of posing with a Bible in his hand, though apparently rarely opens it. Further evidence of this came during Mr. Clinton's Sunday sermon in Beijing's Chongwenmen church, one of the fake churches established by the Beijing regime, which vetoes the words of ministers. Mr. Clinton said: "In the Book of Acts, the 26th verse, it is said that God has made from one blood every nation to dwell on the surface of the Earth. I believe that is true. Therefore, I believe that Chinese and Americans are brothers and sisters as children of God." =20 The actual scripture is from Acts 17:26 and is part of the Apostle Paul's famous Mars Hill speech when he argued that God was not unknowable, as the Greeks believed: "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. `For in Him we live and move and have our being.'" (Acts 17: 26-28) This was not quite the message Reverend Clinton conveyed. The previous day, in presumably unconnected remarks, Mr. Clinton's boss, er, host, Chinese dictator Jiang Zemin proclaimed himself an atheist. So much for the idea of brotherhood. =20 Mr. Clinton took further liberties with the Scriptures as he preached the Gospel of Political Correctness: "Our faith calls upon us to seek unity with people across the world of different races and backgrounds and creeds." Different races and backgrounds, yes. There is indeed scriptural support for the unity of the Body of Christ. But different creeds? On the contrary, Jesus denounced those who taught other religions as "Blind Guides" (Matthew 23: 24) and said "Nobody comes to the Father but by me" (John 14:6). This bastardization of the Scriptures reveals the work of the largely Jewish team of White House speechwriters and spin-doctors who, to put it politely, are hardly in a position to know the New Testament; my life experiences have shown that few Jewish people are acquainted even with the Old Testament. For Bill Clinton, it was the perfect fit: the fake President in a fake church quoting fake scriptures in a fake sermon. As in the United States, some folks were completely taken in by Mr. Clinton. As Hong-Kong's South China Morning Post reports: "parishioners at the Chongwenmen Church were hopeful Mr. Clinton's appearance would make a difference [to the bloodthirsty Beijing regime's oppression and murder of Christians]. 'Now he's prayed with us, the Chinese government will greatly relax its policies toward us Christians and our churches,' said Liu Suxing." Do people genuinely believe that? Well, there are folks who believe the Three Stooges on the nightly news are telling the truth. The tragic parallels between the oppressed and deceived, clueless and naive peoples of China and the United States become daily stronger.=20 On matters religious, the Waffler-in-Chief is hopelessly out of his depth, even though the [London] Daily Telegraph quotes him this week as justifying his rejection of Monica Lewinsky after their affair because he had apparently made a promise 'to God' that he would not 'keep tripping over his wanger'". Of course the British newspapers do not operate under the secrecy of the American media and their forthright reporting has never wavered. The same newspaper published evidence showing that Vince Foster did not, after all, shoot himself, roll up his own body in a carpet and drive it to Fort Marcy Park as the US media have asked us to swallow. Indeed, their ace Washington reporter, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, published 'The Secret Life of Bill Clinton', a well-researched book filled with compelling evidence of Mr. Clinton's long history of drug-dealing, thefts and murders - it makes chilling, but accurate reading. Now another British newspaper has turned Primary Colors fiction into fact. The Daily Mail has published another revelation about Mr. Clinton's "wanger": details with photos, of his allegedly illegitimate son, Danny Jefferson Williams, whom they report is the result of his 1983 liaison with a black Little Rock prostitute, Bobby Ann Williams.=20 She met Bill Clinton one day as he was jogging. Clinton stopped to talk to her and returned three days later. She says he paid $200 for oral sex. Adds the Daily Mail: "Clinton returned again and offered her and two other black prostitutes $400 each to join him in an orgy.=20 He came that night, driven by Arkansas Trooper Buddy Young, Clinton's regular driver, who affirms the story is true. =20 The prostitutes were driven to Clinton's mother's home which he used when she was out of town." "When it was over, he gave us each a tip of $50", said Miss Williams. Says her sister Lucille Bolton: "The baby was white; that's when I started believing my sister. As Danny grew older, he started to look more and more like the Governor. Danny is Clinton's boy." Danny, now 13, attends a private Australian school.=20 Miss Williams and her sister passed two lie detector tests proclaiming that Clinton is Danny's father. (Photographs of Danny and his mother can be found on the Exegesis Web Page at http://www.sm.org/exegesis.) If this report is true, it illustrates once again Mr. Clinton's gross hypocrisy: the adulterous and illiterate preacher who can't keep his pants on, the advocate of pursuing absent fathers who turns out to be one himself, the candidate who denounced the "Butchers of Beijing" who turns traitor and becomes their bond servant, exchanging America's nuclear secrets for donations. At least Judas Escariot felt pangs of conscience before he hung himself. It is not known if Mr. Clinton's conscience survived his childhood. Bill Clinton should not be dismissed as merely a sex-craved buffoon:=20 he is also the most corrupt and dangerous president in American history. During a TV show with Mr. Clinton, President Jiang described as nonsense his government's illegal campaign contributions. Nonsense maybe, but accurate nonetheless. After all, over 100 people have taken the Fifth Amendment or fled the US to avoid testifying about them.=20 Nonsense? Jiang also dismissed the 1989 Tianenmen Square massacre:=20 "Had the Chinese government not taken resolute measures, we could not have enjoyed the stability we enjoy today," he declared, "Nobody's human rights record is perfect." No wonder the storm clouds are gathering, and the Elite are preparing to seize power. The Jiang-Clinton axis bodes ill for freedom, truth, peace and democracy.=20 =20 The human spirit can be suppressed by dictators for only so long. Some day, crowds will again gather in Tianenmen Square and perhaps at the White House too. Eventually, Jiang and Clinton and the ruling Elite will be powerful no more, and Mr. Clinton will be revealed as the duplicitous, sycophantic chameleon he is. Article 2, Section 4 of The United States Constitution states "The President ... of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."=20 America's national security demands that Congress wait no longer. With or without Kenneth Starr's report, it must urgently begin the process of liberation. =87 Steve Myers =D7 Editor ________________________________________________________________________ Steve Myers will be a featured speaker at Kansas City Arise, the Promise Keepers and Praise Keepers rally in Kansas City, Missouri on July 10-11. Please call us at (703) 734 5656 or The Rev. Michael Lyons at (816) 228 1655 for more information. ________________________________________________________________________ Exegesis is delighted to invite you to=20 AMERICAN RENEWAL=20 A Spiritual, Moral, and Financial Refreshment=20 to support the work of The Global Opportunity Foundation August 8, 1998: Washington DC=20 Westpark Hotel, McLean VA 22102 * An Inspiring Prayer Breakfast (8:30 am)=20 * Dynamic, Motivational Christian speakers * A One-Hour Business Meeting (11:00 am or 2:30 pm) * Sightseeing Opportunities In Washington =20 * A Grand Gala Banquet with Alan Keyes=20 * Other Top Guest Speakers=20 * Encouragement, Motivation, Practical Ideas To Restore America! * Hotel accommodation at special discount rates =09 =46or details and reservations please call (703) 734 5656 or send email to events@sm.org http://www.sm.org/events _________________________________________________ =20 We welcome your letters to the editor. =20 Please write to editor@sm.org Exegesis=20 http://www.sm.org/exegesis ___________________________________________________=20 http://www.sm.org Exegesis =20 http://www.sm.org/exegesis Come to the most exciting event of the summer! ********** AMERICAN RENEWAL ********** A Spiritual, Moral and Financial Refreshment WASHINGTON DC AUGUST 8, 1998 More details at http://www.sm.org/events ___________________________________________________ ExTel International Telecommunications Services HUGE SAVINGS ON YOUR PHONE BILL! * Extremely low rates with all of our providers * We recommend:=20 US domestic calls: Telco - http://ld.net/telco/?sm.org Calling Cards: RoadTel at 15.9 cents a minute - http://ld.net/roadtel/?sm.org Prepaid Calling Cards: Just 14 cents a minute - http://moneysaver.net/?sm.org MCI for an overall savings package - http://www.sm.org/extel Whichever service you'd like to use, you'll find more information and a sign up form on our web page at http://www.sm.org/extel ___________________________________________________ And if you'd like your own home-based business,=20 you'll find the answer at Partners in Prosperity http://www.sm.org/pp Now in Maryland, Michigan, Texas, Virginia,Washington DC, and expanding all the time. ___________________________________________________=20 =A9 Exegesis 1998 Post Office Box 789, McLean, Virginia 22101, USA ______________________________________ To subscribe, please send an email to: requests@talklist.com with SUBSCRIBE EXEGESIS in the BODY of the message. To unsubscribe please send an email to: requests@talklist.com with UNSUBSCRIBE EXEGESIS in the BODY of the message. Letters to the Editor should be addressed to: editor@sm.org For more information about Exegesis, please visit http://www.sm.org/exegesis [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 22:14:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RAPTUS: Fwd: [FP] Health Care About to be Nationalized (fwd) On Jun 30, Sarah wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: "mcdonald" To: "Scan This News Recipients List" Subject: [FP] Health Care About to be Nationalized SCAN THIS NEWS 7/1/98 Someone once explained to me that, in order to remain profitable, a cattl= e farmer MUST KNOW, at all times, the health condition of his cattle. Otherwise, diseases could set-in costing the farmer a bundle. It is the farmer's responsibility -- and duty -- to continually keep close tabs on = the health condition of his heard. He must administer vaccines and other medication as he sees fit and so determines for the prevention of disease. Furthermore, he must consult with "statisticians" (who have developed "probability" statistics on all the various cattle ailments) to determine whether any given member of his heard is more likely to live or to die wi= th a particular ailment. The statistics will then be used to determine wheth= er to medicate or eliminate. The farmer must also set a budget for health maintenance, medication, and treatments -- and he must stick with it. The "cost/benefit" ratio will be used to determine which animals must be euthanized. But most importantly the cattle farmer must constantly and closely monitor and track the health of each and every individual heard member. Since he is funding the "healthcare" for the whole heard, the far= mer has a RIGHT to do all these things, right? What? Did you think the "cattle" would make these decisions? And now the government wants to monitor your health care? Wonder why... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [From WorldNetDaily] http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/btlines/980629.btl.hcare.nationali.html Health care about to be nationalized So you thought Clinton-care was defeated and discredited, huh? Incrementally, one baby step at a time, politicians in Washington have continued their long march to nationalize all medical and health services provided in the United States. And they are about to take one of those "great leaps forward" for which socialists are so proud and famous. With little fanfare and no media coverage, Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala announced earlier this month a plan to assign a NATIONAL IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (emphasis added to original here) to every health-care provider in the country. "The national standard employer identifier will help eliminate paperwork, simplify activities such as enrollment in health plans and payment of health insurance premiums, and save money for consumers," said Shalala in making her announcement June 16. "This is good government, and good sense." Now, before getting into the nitty-gritty details of this plan, or, for heaven's sake, the constitutionality, just ask yourself: When did federal involvement in any activity ever reduce paperwork, simplify things or save money? The plan is a direct result of the passage of the 1996 Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, known as the Kennedy-Kassebaum bill -- a back-door legislative approach to inching us to the same goal of nationalized health care Hillary Clinton envisioned in 1994. It's a perfect example of how, even after setback, ridicule and humiliation, Big Government marches on, grabbing power and reducing individual freedom with the help of both major political parties. What the Shalala plan would do is establish the government's ability to track not only every health-care provider but every health-care transaction between doctor and patient. The Kennedy-Kassebaum law explicitly includes a clause establishing the federal government's exclusive "right" to unfettered and unlimited access to every patient's medical records. Shalala has developed the mechanism -- an ID number every doctor, nurse and dentist must use to document every service provided to a patient. Shalala has decided the best number -- surprise, surprise -- is the health-care worker's SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER (emphasis added) or Federal Taxpayer Identification Number. Remember when the government promised only to use Social Security numbers for Social Security? Mind you, the services tracked will not just be those in which taxpayer funds are used. All transactions, no matter how private, must be reported to the government under the new rules. The government may use this information to decide, in its infinite wisdom, whether services provided are truly necessary or not. Fines and penalties are prescribed for such practices. Are you ready to trust Big Brother with your medical secrets? When will the American people awake from their stupor to comprehend the liberties they are compromising? Is national debate no longer even considered necessary before Washington is permitted to hijack personal privacy and individual freedom? Time is running out on this one. THE DEADLINE FOR COMMENT ON THE NEW SHALALA RULES IS SET FOR JULY 6. (emphasis) You can read the rules for yourself on the Health and Human Services Web site [ http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/admnsimp/nprm/regindex.htm ] and E-MAIL YOUR COMMENTS TO MEET THE DEADLINE! (emphasis mine) Oh, I know what they'll tell you in Washington if you protest this insanity. They'll tell you this is just a "simplification" process -- an administrative change designed to promote efficiency and cost-savings. Let them know you don't buy it -- that you're not willing to sacrifice your privacy and freedom at any cost. But your responsibility as an American goes way beyond that. We're fighting a losing battle with the long arm of government -- and this is just one pathetic example. Someone should inform Ted Kennedy, Nancy Kassebaum, Donna Shalala and the rest of our "saviors" inside the beltway of what the Founding Fathers had to say about government and its role in "protecting" us. "Government is not reason," George Washington wrote. "Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Let me add a few other observations: Government is not efficient. Government is not fair. Government is not just. Government cannot save you money. And, most of all, government has no authority, no justification and no right to interfere in or eavesdrop on the most personal private decisions made between you and your doctor. Get the government out of your doctor's office. Get the government out of your medical records. Get the government out of your private life. If you don't, everything our forefathers sacrificed to accomplish with this noble American experiment in freedom will be lost. A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.com/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) on Employer Identifier http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/admnsimp/index.htm Proposed Rules Open for Public Comment http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/admnsimp/nprm/regindex.htm HHS NEWS U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: HCFA Press Office (202)690-6145 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- May 7, 1998 HHS PROPOSES ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATION STANDARDS FOR HEALTH CARE TRANSACTIONS HHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala today announced new proposals to streamlin= e the processing of health care claims and reduce the amount of paperwork required in the U.S. health care system. The plans include a requirement that every health care provider -- hospitals, doctors, nursing homes, and others -- be provided with a uniqu= e alpha-numeric identifier to be used in filing claims for reimbursement by public and private insurance programs. HHS also is proposing regulations that would establish a standard format for the submission of electronic claims. "These are important steps toward a faster, simpler, less costly, and mor= e efficient health care system," Secretary Shalala said. "We are working wi= th the private sector to prepare our nation for the information age in healt= h care." At present, health care providers are assigned different identification numbers by private health plans, hospitals, nursing homes, and such publi= c programs as Medicare and Medicaid. These multiple provider ID numbers res= ult in slower payment of bills, increased costs, and a lack of coordination. The proposed rules published in today's Federal Register are two of the administrative simplification steps provided for in the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). By promoting the grea= ter use of electronic transactions and the elimination of inefficient paper forms, the regulations are expected to save at least $1.5 billion over th= e first five years of implementation. Under the first proposed rule, health care providers would apply for an eight-digit identifier that they would use whenever processing claims electronically. They would apply for that identifier only once and keep i= t when they move from one state to another or if they change specialties. Under the second rule published today, every health care provider would b= e able to use a single standard electronic format to bill for services rendered. All health plans would be required to accept these standard electronic claims. Currently, different insurers utilize different electronic and paper claims forms creating a confusing and cumbersome sys= tem for health care providers and taking providers' time away from their patients. The electronic claim proposal also includes new standards for other commo= n transactions and for reporting diagnoses and procedures in the transactio= ns. Health plans will be able to pay providers, authorize services, certify referrals, and coordinate benefits using one standard electronic format f= or each transaction. Using a standard electronic format, providers will be a= ble to inquire about whether a patient has insurance coverage or the status o= f a claim or request authorizations for services or specialist referrals. Employers who provide health insurance to their workers and their depende= nts also will be able to use a standard electronic format to enroll or disenr= oll employees and to make premium payments to any health plan with which they contract to do business. "These efforts will help more providers move from paper to electronic transactions," said Nancy-Ann DeParle, administrator of the Health Care Financing Administration, which runs the Medicare and Medicaid programs. "This will make information exchange more efficient and accurate, and res= ult in better service for consumers." Later this year, HHS will issue other administrative simplification proposals to establish national ID numbers for health plans and employers and to establish stringent new security rules to protect patient confidentiality. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- June 16, 1998 - Shalala Proposes National Standard Employer Identifier HHS NEWS U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: HCFA Press Office (202)690-6145 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- Tuesday, June 16, 1998 SHALALA PROPOSES NATIONAL STANDARD EMPLOYER IDENTIFIER - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- HHS Secretary today announced plans for HHS to standardize the identifyin= g numbers assigned to employers in the health care industry by using the existing identifying numbers already assigned by the IRS. The move is expected to save $1.5 billion over the first five years of implementation. "The national standard employer identifier will help eliminate paperwork, simplify activities such as enrollment in health plans and payment of hea= lth insurance premiums, and save money for consumers," said Shalala. "This is good government, and good sense." The proposed national standard employer ID number is the Employer Identification Number (EIN), which is issued and maintained by the Intern= al Revenue Service. Businesses that pay wages to employees already have an E= IN. Under the proposed rule, health care providers, health care clearinghouse= s, and health plans would use this number to identify the employer on electronic health transactions that require an employer identifier. Currently, health plans, providers, and employers may use different ID numbers for an employer when they conduct business. Having multiple ID numbers for a single employer slows activities such as health plan enrollments and health plan premium payments, and increases costs. "Standard health identification numbers are important components of electronic health transactions. Using the existing Employer Identificatio= n Number is an efficient, logical choice because most employers already hav= e it," said Nancy-Ann DeParle, administrator of the Health Care Financing Administration, which runs the Medicare and Medicaid programs. The national standard employer ID number proposal, published in today's Federal Register, is one of several administrative simplification efforts underway. These efforts will promote electronic transactions and the reduction of paperwork. Savings, even taking into account start-up costs, are expected to total $1.5 billion over the first five years of implementation. In addition to the national standard employer identifier, other proposals under the law will call for national standard ID numbers for use in healt= h care systems for health care providers and health plans. Further, the law also requires standards for common electronic health care transactions, c= ode sets, and stringent new security rules to protect confidentiality of and access to health records. All health plans, health care clearinghouses, a= nd any health care providers that conduct electronic health transactions wil= l be required to abide by these standards. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- Note: HHS press releases are available on the World Wide Web at: http://www.hhs.gov/ - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - ---- Frequently Asked Questions About the National Standard Employer Identifie= r (EIN) [From the HHS web page] 1. Why is a standard employer identifier needed for electronic health transactions? Employers, as sponsors of health insurance for their employees, often nee= d to be identified in health care transactions, and a standard identifier f= or employers would be beneficial for transactions exchanged electronically. Health care providers may need to identify the employer of the participan= t on claims submitted to health plans electronically. Employers need to identify themselves in electronic transactions when they enroll or disenr= oll employees in a health plan or make premium payments to health plans on behalf of their employees. Employers and health care providers may need t= o identify an employer as the source or receiver of information about a participant=92s eligibility. 2. What standard is being proposed as the employer identifier for use in electronic health transactions? We are proposing the Employer Identification Number (EIN), the taxpayer identifying number for employers that is assigned by the Internal Revenue Service. This identifier has nine digits with the first two digits separa= ted by a hyphen, as follows: 00-0000000. 3. Has the Internal Revenue Service agreed to the use of the EIN as the standard employer identifier for use in electronic health transactions? Yes, on January 16, 1998 the Internal Revenue Service agreed to the use o= f the EIN as the identifying number for employers in all electronic health care transactions under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountabili= ty Act of 1996. 4. How does an employer obtain an EIN? The Internal Revenue Service maintains the process for assigning EINs. An employer obtains an EIN by submitting IRS Form SS-4, Application for Employer Identification Number, to the IRS. Any business that pays wages = to one or more employees is required to have an EIN as its taxpayer identify= ing number. There would be few, if any, employers that would not already have= an EIN for taxpayer identifying purposes. 5. Some employers have more than one EIN. Which one should be used for electronic health transactions? In the Notice of Proposed Rule Making we ask for public comment on whethe= r one of the employer=92s EINs should be used consistently in electronic he= alth transactions and how that one EIN should be selected. 6. Who is required by HIPAA to use the EIN in electronic health transactions? HIPAA does not require employers to use the standard employer identifier = or standard health care transactions. However, we believe that many employer= s will want to take advantage of this standardization. Providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses are required to use the standard employer identifier in electronic transactions, such as health care claim= s or eligibility inquiries, if the transactions require an employer identifier. 7. How would a provider, health plan, or health care clearinghouse obtain the EIN of an employer for use in electronic health care transactions? Health care providers, health plans, or health care clearinghouses would obtain an employer=92s EIN directly from the employer. The proposed rule = would require an employer to disclose its EIN, upon request, to any entity that conducts standard electronic transactions that require that employer=92s identifier. The authority to require this disclosure is implicit in HIPAA= =92s directive to the Secretary to adopt an employer identification number for use in the health care system. We have identified no reason for an employ= er to refuse to furnish the number. The EIN, unlike the Social Security Numb= er, is not information about a person. EINs are not considered private and th= ey may be freely exchanged by employers and others. Reply to: To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml - --WebTV-Mail-1764905157-2333-- [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #156 *************************