From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest)
To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: roc-digest V2 #180
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roc-digest Wednesday, September 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 180
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 98 20:23:05 PST
From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance)
Subject: [Fwd: Re: PA-RKBA! More to worry about....] (fwd)
On Aug 28, globallaw@tidalwave.net wrote:
[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:19:26 -0400
From: globallaw@tidalwave.net
To: pa-rkba@listbox.com
Subject: Re: PA-RKBA! More to worry about....
References: <1ac_9808270014@tanstaaf.frackit.com>
<199808251754.NAA16113@syl.syl.nj.nec.com> <199808280239.WAA02461@primus>
David P. Chernicoff wrote:
>
> >>This was copied directly from the web page of Neal Boortz with WSB Radio in Atlanta. If you would like to read his entire page, go to
> >>http://www.boortz.com
> >>
[edited for brevity; Third-hand, relay of information: e-mail message
stating to effect that]...
> >>GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS --- BLATANT INDOCTRINATION
"...My niece (she's in the 3rd grade now) was excited and told me that
she had memorized the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I asked her
to tell me what she had learned. She did... guess what, during the Bill
of Rights part... she skipped the 2nd amendment. I asked her why, she
told me that her school teacher said that the 2nd amendment had been
removed from the bill of rights and that they won't teach it anymore
(told to her by her teacher). I called the school, they told me that the
2nd amendment no longer applies to the bill of rights and that it will
be rescinded by the next election. This ticked me off but it also has me
worried. Has any other kids come home from school with the same brain
washing?"... That, folks, is pure, raw indoctrination. This is a school
system, acting as an agent for the government, indoctrinating out
children with lies. It is no secret that we are now living under the
control of a government that
is afraid for its citizens to have guns."
............. end quoted messages ......
It doesn't stop there Dave. They are teaching new lawyers the same
thing. This was part of a note I sent for relay to the Virginia
Citizen's Defense League attorney. No feedback as of yet.
"...Barbri [the primary national Bar Preparation outfit] has included on
Page 36, Section 8.2 "Application of the Bill of Rights to the States" a
bit of revisionist teaching. All these new young lawyers will go out
with this word of gospel ingrained in their minds. I use all caps where
Barbri has used italics due to my e-mailers' limitations.
"After the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted in 1868, the Supreme Court
interpreted the Due Process Clause of that amendment as INCORPORATING
many, but not all, of the guarantees of the Bill of Rights and applying
them against the states. The Court found, through a process of
"selective incorporation," that the following protections of the first
eight amendments to the Bill of Rights were "fundamental to the American
scheme of justice," and therefore, applicable to the states:
- - all of the protections of the First Amendment.
- - all of the protections of the Fourth Amendment.
- - all of the protections of the Fifth Amendment except the right to be
indicted by a grand jury.
- - all of the protections of the Sixth Amendment.
- - all of the protections of the Eighth Amendment."
"The Second Amendment (right to bear arms), and the Seventh Amendment
(right to jury in civil cases) are NOT APPLICABLE to the states and the
Third Amendment (quartering of troops in homes) has not been the subject
of a decision."
Now is it any wonder that the Dems/NEA/HCI are fighting tooth and nail
against school vouchers, charter schools and home schooling? If they
can catch the impressionable minds early enough, they can effectively
rewrite history and the Constitution in the minds of the newly
indoctrinated.
Cut off their cash and their monopoly on education. School choice now.
Regards,
Rick V.
"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- - Benjamin Franklin
[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:04:51 -0700
From: Kenneth Mitchell
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: PA-RKBA! More to worry about....] (fwd)
At 08:23 PM 8/28/98 PST, Bill Vance wrote:
>On Aug 28, globallaw@tidalwave.net wrote:
>
>> >>GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS --- BLATANT INDOCTRINATION
>
>"...My niece (she's in the 3rd grade now) was excited and told me that
>she had memorized the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. I asked her
>to tell me what she had learned. She did... guess what, during the Bill
>of Rights part... she skipped the 2nd amendment. I asked her why, she
>told me that her school teacher said that the 2nd amendment had been
>removed from the bill of rights and that they won't teach it anymore
>(told to her by her teacher). I called the school, they told me that the
>2nd amendment no longer applies to the bill of rights and that it will
>be rescinded by the next election. This ticked me off but it also has me
>worried. Has any other kids come home from school with the same brain
>washing?"... That, folks, is pure, raw indoctrination. This is a school
>system, acting as an agent for the government, indoctrinating out
>children with lies. It is no secret that we are now living under the
>control of a government that
>is afraid for its citizens to have guns."
>............. end quoted messages ......
>
>It doesn't stop there Dave. They are teaching new lawyers the same
>thing. This was part of a note I sent for relay to the Virginia
>Citizen's Defense League attorney. No feedback as of yet.
>
>
>"...Barbri [the primary national Bar Preparation outfit] has included on
>Page 36, Section 8.2 "Application of the Bill of Rights to the States" a
>bit of revisionist teaching. All these new young lawyers will go out
>with this word of gospel ingrained in their minds. I use all caps where
>Barbri has used italics due to my e-mailers' limitations.
>
>"After the Fourteenth Amendment was adopted in 1868, the Supreme Court
>interpreted the Due Process Clause of that amendment as INCORPORATING
>many, but not all, of the guarantees of the Bill of Rights and applying
>them against the states. The Court found, through a process of
>"selective incorporation," that the following protections of the first
>eight amendments to the Bill of Rights were "fundamental to the American
>scheme of justice," and therefore, applicable to the states:
>
>- all of the protections of the First Amendment.
>- all of the protections of the Fourth Amendment.
>- all of the protections of the Fifth Amendment except the right to be
>indicted by a grand jury.
>- all of the protections of the Sixth Amendment.
>- all of the protections of the Eighth Amendment."
>
>"The Second Amendment (right to bear arms), and the Seventh Amendment
>(right to jury in civil cases) are NOT APPLICABLE to the states and the
>Third Amendment (quartering of troops in homes) has not been the subject
>of a decision."
The _reason_ for the lack of "incorporation" of the 2nd seems to have
slipped by most people, including most lawyers. Note the language of the
First and other amendments; "Congress shall make no law....", or the
equivalent. The Second says "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED". That's a much
stronger statement, and early court cases clearly applied the 2nd to the
states. It was only after the 14th amendment that the Supreme Court began
to apply the _rest_ of the BOR to state governments as well.
Of coourse, you won't get the government to admit this.....
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net
916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax)
- --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------
"George Washington said it as, 'Government is not reason; it is not
eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a
fearful master.' Government must be restricted as much as possible
to do as little as possible because unlike all other institutions,
every task given to it is the occasion for the use of force. It is
enough if government attempts to limit the evil actions that
individuals commit against each other. If it does more, either in
attempting to restrict the evils that individuals do to themselves,
or if government attempts to use its force to engineer positive good,
it increases occasions for the creation of power centers which can
be captured by amoral or immoral persons who will corrupt such power
to their own ends." J. Neil Schulman "Self Control, Not Gun Control"
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Founding Member of the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:56:12 -0500
From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell)
Subject: Fwd: Economics Matters
Forwarded FYI from the Ludwig von Mises Institute newsletter. Check out
the WWW link #5 (The Locke Institute) in particular; it contains quite a
few very nice pages and links (e.g., lots of legal & regulatory links).
- --Bob in Mississippi
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evidence that politics and deception are inseparable comes from former
President George Bush, who tells an interviewer on A&E Network tonight
(August 25, 1998) that the Fed cost him the election in 1992.
"I think that if the interest rates had been lowered more dramatically
that
I would have been re-elected president because the [economic] recovery
that
we were in would have been more visible," Mr. Bush told interviewer
David
Frost (as reported in the WSJ). "I reappointed [Alan Greenspan], and he
disappointed me."
Bush also says he regrets his "No New Taxes" pledge and wishes he had
adopted the strategy of Reagan. "Reagan raised taxes several times," Mr.
Bush said, "but he just kept saying, 'I'm against a tax increase.' ... I
just wish I'd been that good."
* * * *
Milton Friedman is interviewed by Gene Epstein in this week's Barron's.
On
the positive side, he calls for the abolition of the Fed, the IMF, and
most
economic regulation. On the negative side, he pushes various
"transitional"
schemes that create problems of their own, including the "negative
income
tax" and Social Security "privatization."
Then, Epstein and Friedman have this exchange on the Austrian theory of
the
business cycle, which Friedman famously rejects:
Q: You were acquainted with the Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek and
also
are familiar with the work of Ludwig von Mises and his American
disciple,
Murray Rothbard. When you were talking about bad investments, you were
alluding to Austrian business-cycle theory. There is a certain concept
that
has pretty much gone into our parlance and understanding, which fits in
with
what you said about what happened in Asia. There can be times and
conditions
in which the stage can be set for malinvestment that leads to recession.
A: That is a very general statement that has very little content. I
think
the Austrian business-cycle theory has done the world a great deal of
harm.
If you go back to the 1930s, which is a key point, here you had the
Austrians sitting in London, Hayek and Lionel Robbins, and saying you
just
have to let the bottom drop out of the world. You've just got to let it
cure
itself. You can't do anything about it. You will only make it worse. You
have Rothbard saying it was a great mistake not to let the whole banking
system collapse. I think by encouraging that kind of do-nothing policy
both
in Britain and the United States, they did harm.
Q: Would you make a similar statement about John Maynard Keynes and the
Keynesians?
A: That is also true of them. Thanks to the Keynesians, we had the
stagflation of the 1970s. You never would have had stagflation if it
hadn't
been for the full-employment policies coming out of the Keynesian
revolution. So both the Austrians and the Keynesians did a good deal of
harm. But both of them, I would say, added to our understanding of
business
cycles. Only I don't think there are business cycles.
Q: You can't add too much to your understanding of something that
doesn't
exist. But getting back to your analysis of Asia, you talked about
certain
necessary conditions for the creation of a situation in which
malinvestment
occurred. Is that a fair summary of what you said?
A: I am not sure I like to refer to it as malinvestment.
Q: I think you called it economically unjustified.
A: The problem is the following one: I don't like to use the word
malinvestment as a synonym for monetary disequilibrium. What you created
in
those countries was a situation of monetary disequilibrium, where the
internal value of the currency was not equal to its external value. That
in
turn encourages an economic structure within the country that is not
viable.
And one aspect of that is malinvestment.
* * * *
Watch Mises.org for a response to these claims.
* * * *
Among the sites on the web that should be in every Austrian's favorites
menu
are:
1. Greg Ransom's Hayek Page:
http://members.aol.com/gregransom/hayekpage.htm
Here you will find a complete Hayek bibliography and a wealth of
information
on his life and work. Greg has been keep this up for years, and he has
created a treasure trove for Hayek scholars.
2. History of Economic Thought site:
http://www.econ.jhu.edu/people/fonseca/het/hethome.htm
Leanne J. Ussher and Gon=E7alo L. Fonseca have done a wonderful job in
creating the most complete history of thought on the web, and it gives
prominent attention to the Austrian School.
3. Economics on the Web: http://www.inomics.com/query/show?what=3Dwelcome=
This is quite possibly the most complete site on the web for
professional
economists. An older but still solid site is
http://econwpa.wustl.edu/EconFAQ/EconFAQ.html
4. Journals on the web: http://www.jstor.org/
Articles from ten mainstream economics journals can be found here.
5. The Locke Institute: http://www.thelockeinstitute.org/
Charles Rowley runs this institute, which concentrates on public choice
research.
_______________________________________________________________
| Robert S. Linzell linzellr@datastar.net |
| Disclaimer: The content of the preceding message reflects |
| my opinion only, unless otherwise indicated. |
| "Live" from South Mississippi State Motto: Virtute et Armis |
|_______________________________________________________________|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 15:58:42 -0500
From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell)
Subject: Fwd: Centralize or Secede
Forwarded FYI from the Ludwig von Mises Institute (big believers in the
right/duty of seccession) newsletter. --Bob in Mississippi
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
The journal Society is available on scholarly newsstands around the
country, and generally deals with intellectual trends in sociology,
politics, and
economics. The July/August 1998 issue deals with the topic "Secession
and
Nationalism at the Millennium." The featured author is Mises Institute
senior scholar Hans-Hermann Hoppe, on "The Western State as a Paradigm:
Learning from History." Professor Hoppe explains the tendency for states
to
centralize their authority and why the Misesian theory of secessionism
is
essential to understanding the idea of freedom.
SOCIETY (Founded 1963)
Irving Louis Horowitz, Editor-in-Chief
ISSN: 0147-2011
Rutgers - The State University
New Brunswick, NJ 08903
Subscription rates:
Individuals: $48/yr; $90/2yrs; $126/3yrs.
Institutions: $108/yr; $204/2yrs; $288/3yrs
http://www.transactionpub.com
For a more complete understanding of the place of the secessionist
impulse
in the classically liberal ideal, purchase Secession, State, and
Liberty,
edited by David Gordon, from www.mises.org
_______________________________________________________________
| Robert S. Linzell linzellr@datastar.net |
| Disclaimer: The content of the preceding message reflects |
| my opinion only, unless otherwise indicated. |
| "Live" from South Mississippi State Motto: Virtute et Armis |
|_______________________________________________________________|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 98 14:17:37 PST
From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance)
Subject: Russia Today (fwd)
On Aug 30, Dennis Justice wrote:
[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]
Hello All,
This is just a heads-up. No need to reply as I have no more
info than you see here. While we may wish to disregard what
this reporter has to say, look around you. How far away from
this situation are we right here in the 'land of the MEEK and the
home of the SLAVE'?
================Copied from another list:
------------------------------
A friend of mine took a two-week hunting and fishing trip to Siberia.
He returned yesterday and is in the process of sending me details about
his vacation there. I figured his impressions of the country would be
of interest...
----------
I was going to lead in to this subject with future segments of my trip
report, but feel it really can't wait. When I got to Russia, the
exchange rate was 6.1 Rubles for the dollar. In some stores I noticed
some prices that didn't make sense to me. I was told they were old
price
tags and they hadn't had time to change them. I kid you not, the
difference was 1000%!! That's NOT a misprint, ONE THOUSAND
PERCENT. I got there a little over 2 weeks ago and I see today the
Ruble is as low as 16 to 1 dollar! The unemployment and common
man starving was unbelievably prevalent.
I said earlier, I changed my hunting/fishing plans after arrival. I've
been lucky enough to travel the world and have visited many countries
"we" would consider impoverished. For over 3 years in Thailand, I
turned down the comfort and security of the military post. In the place
of a nice concrete barracks with a/c, hot and cold running water, etc.,
I chose to live among the locals. Tropical weather, no a/c (had
electricity sometimes), no running water (or hot water) and an outside
toilet. I ate the local food, drank their water (filtered through a
t-shirt) and basically lived as one of them.
In Mexico, I also lived with the locals, off the main drag, in the
"slums" and refused to eat in the "tourist" spots.
Same with Hawaii (my first two times, by myself). No Waikiki beaches
for
me, I lived and ate with the locals. The poor locals.
Same in the Philipines, Guam, et al.
In Russia, I decided to do the same. I stayed in a hotel one night in
Moscow. From there on out, I slept in alley's, woods, side of the road,
you name it. I lived with the locals, fished with local fishermen in
small fishing villages, met some of the aborigines living in caves and
tents (the Russian equivalent of our American Indians, looked like
Eskimos) and even some Tartars (the original inhabitants of Siberia,
looked like Japanese).
I have many stories to tell related to the adventure, but the most
important one really can't wait. I talked to the poor. We talked about
the gov't., the economy, etc. To my surprise, many of these "peasants"
were highly educated, held good jobs at one time and have been thrown
into poverty by a corrupt government. Yuri has a "good" job, makes
$400/month, BUT hasn't been paid since February. I found this is a fact
of life. Employers pay IF and when they want. Yuri (I found out) has a
degree and is a geophysicist! From village to village, the story was
always the same.
The nation is run by criminals and mafia. Yeltsin is a criminal, a
communist who calls himself one who promotes a "democracy". The
"word on the street" is, he's putting his old buddy Chernomyrdin back
in office in exchange for letting Yeltsin back down, but still run
things
his way through Chernomyrdin.
You could see obvious mafia figures driving their fancy cars with
tinted
windows, silk suits and sunglasses. Yuri pointed out their license
plates to me. They ALL started with 3 digits (000, 111, 222, etc). This
is a signal to the cops to NOT interfere with their business. Hands
off.
We got to Yuri's town and went to visit his brother at his store. The
mafia had TAKEN it. We went to his house and his wife said she has no
idea where he is. The mafia took his store from him (a hardware store)
and she hasn't seen him since.
The mayor of the adjoining town protested the criminal government and
was shot to death in front of the government building. The mayor in
Yuri's town then disappeared and hasn't been seen since. The locals say
he's hiding.
Russia was supposed to let the citizens own handguns as of the first of
'97. They changed their minds and compromised. Yuri carries a Walther
PPK 9mm, but the barrel has been changed. It's only a tear gas gun.
That's all they're allowed.
The talk in EVERY small village was of revolution, but they cried that
they could only throw rocks. The GOVERNMENT, KGB, POLICE and
CRIMINALS are the only ones in the country with any fire power.
"Hunting" weapons are allowed, but only small calibre rifles
and shotguns are allowed.
Most common citizens can't even afford that.
I was totally surprised by what else I learned. Almost everyone I
talked
to could practically recite our Bill of Rights! Can you? They looked at
me in awe and asked, "Is it true some people in the U.S. want to CHANGE
your Bill of Rights"? They couldn't believe it! They said it's the BEST
thing we have going for us. They are especially jealous of our Second
Amendment rights. They said if THEY had that right, the gov't. would
have been changed long ago, but they have no choice but to continue
letting the gov't. stuff their pockets while the people starve.
I have tons to tell here, but have to do it in segments. I'm busy as
heck catching up and will be out of town this weekend. I just drop in
and give you more updates whenever I can.
Remember, don't take our Bill of Rights for granted. Others in the
world
would kill for the rights we have. If there's a revolution in Russia in
the near future, remember, you heard it here first. I figured I just
couldn't let this wait.
Jim
[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:07:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul M Watson
Subject: B-17's and "Saving Private Ryan" (fwd)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
From=20my brother about my dad.
This is one of only a few stories my dad has ever told.
He is now 80 years old.=20
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 04:38:21 -0500
From: Steve Watson=20
To: Paul Watson
B-17's and Saving Private Ryan
My father, Colonel E. Stuart Watson, was a B-17 bomber pilot in World War
II. Based in England, he flew 48 missions over enemy territory, and on
D-Day he led the 8th Air Force 381'st bomb group over Omaha Beach to bomb
the German emplacements. All bombs missed. He has wondered these many
years how many American lives could have been saved if he had had his say,
but it didn't happen that way.=20
The battle plan called for a closely timed and coordinated attack. The 8th
Air Force was to send squadron's of B-17's, each carrying sixteen 500-lb
bombs. Some planes carried one or two 1000-lb concrete-piercing bombs,
intended to destroy fortified bunkers and pillboxes on the cliffs
overlooking the beach. At a relatively low 10,000 foot altitude, they flew
from the ocean straight inland across the shore. They were to start
dropping bombs in the water offshore where the Germans had placed
obstacles, and continue to drop one every 75 feet across the beach and
into the fortifications.=20
Instead, as they approached, they encountered a solid undercast of cloud
cover such as is commonly found along ocean beaches. Visually, they could
not see the shore. The bombardier in Dad's plane had radar, enabling him
to see the target, but not the troops on the ground. Not wanting to risk
hitting our men, he hesitated. There wasn't time to consult my father, who
was the wing commander that day. Had he been asked, he would have ordered
the drop as planned. A good battle plan, conceived and thought out while
not under duress, is best followed through. Things never go exactly right
in the heat of action, and the tendency is to want to abandon the plan.
But as it happened, on this day, the landing craft had encountered high
seas and begun to take on water, with the result that the troops were 22
minutes behind schedule hitting the beach. None would have been hurt.=20
All Dad's bombs fell behind the cliffs. Apparently the entire 8th Air
Force had the same result. Probably some of the German communications were
disrupted, but the Marines found the pillboxes and machine guns intact and
manned by well-trained and ready gunners. It was a duck shoot. Many
surviving Marines still hold the Air Force responsible for their heavy
losses.
After my father went to see Saving Private Ryan for the third time, this
time with my wife and I and our two children, he told us the following
story:=20
On December 24, 1944, five months after D-Day and ten months after I was
born, he flew a mission to interdict German supply lines. Shortly after
bombs were dropped, one of the new German jet fighter planes appeared. The
same 20-millimeter cannon that the movie showed blowing down walls and
blasting men to pieces, the Germans flew as fighter armament, with the
same deadly effect. On the first pass, the German pilot shot out both
engines on the left wing of Dad=B9s B-17.=20
Dad has told me many times that a B-17, given the opportunity to move
freely away from formation, could outmaneuver most fighter planes. On that
day, he had another Air Force pilot operating his tail gunner position. As
the jet turned about and came from behind for the kill, this pilot/tail
gunner got on the intercom and warned Dad as the jet came into gun range.
Dad executed a hard left diving turn at the last moment, leaving the less
maneuverable jet without a target. Since these new jets had only limited
fuel supplies, the German had to abandon his attack and return to base
after only two passes.=20
The B-17, of course, could still fly on two of its four engines. It was a
tough plane, and could take a lot of damage. But with the extra drag of
the rudder and aileron adjustments needed to compensate for the one-sided
power, the plane could not climb, nor even maintain altitude. It started
slowly down. None of the men were seriously hurt, but the German had shot
up several of their parachutes. There were not enough for all. Dad
gallantly ordered the men to jump and let him take the plane down, but
they gallantly refused.=20
There was an 8,000 foot thick cloud cover, extending almost to the ground.=
=20
The altimeter was set for England, and he didn't know exactly where they
were, or what the local ground elevation was. It was probably France or
Belgium, somewhere. If he could make it to the coast, he could at least be
sure they were in Allied territory. He pressed on, until the altimeter
read zero. Outside the right window, he noticed a church steeple go past
the wingtip.=20
As the clouds broke open, he saw a field of snow just ahead. It had been
terrible weather for several weeks, very cold. There were two or three
feet of snow. They had lowered the landing gear, which was perhaps a
mistake. Shell holes in the ground ripped off the gear immediately, and
the plane spun around backwards, throwing snow everywhere. Miraculously,
it skidded to a stop, intact, and did not burn. The entire crew walked
away.=20
A British Leftenent ran from nearby tree cover to inform them that they
were not in a secure area; that they were actually behind German lines. He
urged the crew to destroy the plane. It was a brand-new plane, on its
second or third mission. They had magnesium flares for the purpose, and
they burned it to the ground.=20
The Leftenant pointed the way to home, and bid them luck. They wore thin,
electrically heated flight boots and gloves, which did little good without
the plane's power. They ran. The British had bonfires at each road
intersection, and would tell them how to find the next checkpoint.=20
Nevertheless, they all became separated, and soon Dad had only one other
companion. They spent Christmas Day somewhere on the Continent, running
through the snow. It took about five days to reach a safe place and be
picked up. They all eventually made it back to England. Dad flew several
more missions. He has never flown since the war.=20
Not a single man was killed in any of Dad's planes, nor even seriously
wounded. But they all died, except him. Two complete crews, in fact. They
died on other missions, in other planes. They died in alcoholic motor
vehicle crashes after the war. One man crashed in his own front yard, with
his wife watching. He took a friend up in a small plane, and buzzed his
own house. The friend panicked in the back seat and pulled his rip cord,
filling the cockpit with parachute silk.=20
Twenty men, and my father alone survived. War makes no sense. That's the
message of the movie. Who wins, who loses, who lives, who dies, where,
when, and why it makes no sense.=20
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 98 14:16:02 PST
From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance)
Subject: Fratrum: Fw: C-NEWS: President Threatens Shutdown in Push for Illegal Census (fwd)
Anyone want to bet this won't be his odus operandi for everything else he
wants, too?
On Sep 2, Arlin H. Adams wrote:
[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]
- -----Original Message-----
From: Amy Ridenour
To: c-news@europe.std.com
Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 2:41 AM
Subject: C-NEWS: President Threatens Shutdown in Push for Illegal Census
>President Threatens Government Shutdown in Push for
>Illegal Census Practice: Counting Process Questioned
>as Unreliable, Potential Tool for Political Deceit
>
>
>For Immediate Release
>Contact: David W. Almasi (202) 543-1286 or
>DAlmasi@nationalcenter.org
>
>
>Despite a federal court ruling on August 24, 1998 prohibiting the use of
>"sampling" in the 2000 census, the Clinton Administration is still
>proceeding with plans to use this counting method in the next national
>population survey. Furthermore, President Bill Clinton is threatening to
>shut down the FBI, DEA and other Justice Department-related law
>enforcement organizations as well as the State and Commerce Departments
>unless Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives present him with
>legislation providing full funding to implement this illegal process.
>
>Data from the census, the once-a-decade survey of the American
>population, determines the number of U.S. representatives for each state,
>how voting districts are drawn and how federal money is allocated. The
>Clinton Administration is seeking to replace the traditional
>person-by-person counting method of enumeration with a statistical
>estimation process called sampling. While the Administration contends
>sampling is the only fair way to count all Americans, critics say it
>could produce erroneous population numbers and be manipulated for
>political gain.
>
>The National Center for Public Policy Research's new National Policy
>Analysis paper, "The Census: Sampling or a Straight Count?" provides
>readers with:
>
>* The historical underpinnings of the census process.
>
>* A description of how the sampling process works.
>
>* Questions and answers regarding the legality and constitutionality of
>sampling.
>
>* Criticisms of the use of sampling as a means of achieving an accurate
>population count.
>
>* Suggestions for making the current enumeration process more effective.
>
>"Many believe the Clinton Administration might try to use sampling to
>create population estimates that favor Democratic candidates," said
>author David W. Almasi, director of publications and media relations for
>The National Center for Public Policy Research. "Clinton's record of
>politicizing government agencies like the IRS and FBI - added to the fact
>that tests of sampling have raised serious concerns about its accuracy -
>make Republican congressmen and others leery of giving the President
>control over mapping Congress for the next ten years."
>
>The National Center for Public Policy Research is a non-partisan,
>non-profit education foundation.
>
>To arrange an interview, please contact David W. Almasi at (202) 543-1286
>or DAlmasi@nationalcenter.org. The paper can be accessed over the
>Internet at http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA210.html.
>
># # #
>
>-------
>To subscribe to c-news, send the message SUBSCRIBE C-NEWS, or the message
>UNSUBSCRIBE C-NEWS to unsubscribe, to majordomo@world.std.com. Contact
>owner-c-news@world.std.com if you have questions.
[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! *****
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ
- ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:44:50 -0700
From: Jack Perrine
Subject: RE: Fratrum: Fw: C-NEWS: President Threatens Shutdown in Push for Illegal Census (fwd)
On Wednesday, September 02, 1998 3:16 PM, Bill Vance [SMTP:roc@xpresso.seaslug.org] wrote:
>
> Anyone want to bet this won't be his odus operandi for everything else he
> wants, too?
Well actually, I think those who plan Clinton's spin should look about and see
that some very fundamental changes have been made in what determines Clinton's
popularity and thus his ability to do as described below.
It has been noticed that no matter what evil Clinton did the populace said: We
could care less.....since our Stocks are up. Now, I realize that most of the
press is on auto saying the economy is wonderful / could not be better and the
populace is thus happy.
However, before this weeks unpleasantaness things like the Russell 2000 were
do nearly 30 percent for the year. And while the media picks out a very few
stocks in averages and tells the people each day how much higher stocks are in
the real world most have seen the value of their stocks decrease
And it is only get to worse and worse thru the election:
1: There are several hundred billion dollars worth of stock bought were borrowed
money. This is fine as long as the stocks go up enough to pay the interest rate
charges. This is terrible when the person who borrowed to buy the stocks now has
to find the money to pay the interest rate charges. I suspect there will be a
lot of stock sold and also a lot of defaults on home equity loans and credit
cards. I expect a lot of unpleasantness and I expect the populace will blame
Clinton and all the rest of Congress for each penny they have lost
2: Over the last few years government at all level has gotten used to and spent
the windfall instead of paying down debt from all the taxes generated as people
generated capitol gains / stock option winnings. Government at all levels is
about to see a 20 percent or so drop in tax revenue. That is one government
worker at the state and local level is about to become redundant. I somehow
suspect that those who have lost all their savings will be less that pleased
with having government generate new taxes and will be quite forceful in bringing
this view to politicians. Again lots of unpleasantness and great drop in the
popularatity of Clinton and all the rest of Congress
3: It is true that while things are bad in Asia practically anyplace where an
investment is made has a chance of being worth several times as much in a few
years it is also true that as this greatest bubble of all time bursts in this
country that any investment.....except for money has a high probability of being
worth a small fraction in a few years of what it is now. I expect massive floods
of money from our markets to elsewhere. I suspect this will make it very
difficult to find the money to find the extra couple of hundred billion in new
borrowing to make up for no longer existing stock market winnings. This will
drive up interest rates and further increase the total lack of popularity the
populace has for Clinton or any other politician
I tend to think that as the election nears the politicians might well be
interested in quickly undoing a lot of things.....but I could be wrong on this
sentence. But for the most part Clinton's ability to do as he pleases has come
to an end
Jack
> On Sep 2, Arlin H. Adams wrote:
>
> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amy Ridenour
> To: c-news@europe.std.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 2:41 AM
> Subject: C-NEWS: President Threatens Shutdown in Push for Illegal Census
>
> >President Threatens Government Shutdown in Push for
> >Illegal Census Practice: Counting Process Questioned
> >as Unreliable, Potential Tool for Political Deceit
> >
> >
> >For Immediate Release
> >Contact: David W. Almasi (202) 543-1286 or
> >DAlmasi@nationalcenter.org
> >
> >
> >Despite a federal court ruling on August 24, 1998 prohibiting the use of
> >"sampling" in the 2000 census, the Clinton Administration is still
> >proceeding with plans to use this counting method in the next national
> >population survey. Furthermore, President Bill Clinton is threatening to
> >shut down the FBI, DEA and other Justice Department-related law
> >enforcement organizations as well as the State and Commerce Departments
> >unless Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives present him with
> >legislation providing full funding to implement this illegal process.
> >
> >Data from the census, the once-a-decade survey of the American
> >population, determines the number of U.S. representatives for each state,
> >how voting districts are drawn and how federal money is allocated. The
> >Clinton Administration is seeking to replace the traditional
> >person-by-person counting method of enumeration with a statistical
> >estimation process called sampling. While the Administration contends
> >sampling is the only fair way to count all Americans, critics say it
> >could produce erroneous population numbers and be manipulated for
> >political gain.
> >
> >The National Center for Public Policy Research's new National Policy
> >Analysis paper, "The Census: Sampling or a Straight Count?" provides
> >readers with:
> >
> >* The historical underpinnings of the census process.
> >
> >* A description of how the sampling process works.
> >
> >* Questions and answers regarding the legality and constitutionality of
> >sampling.
> >
> >* Criticisms of the use of sampling as a means of achieving an accurate
> >population count.
> >
> >* Suggestions for making the current enumeration process more effective.
> >
> >"Many believe the Clinton Administration might try to use sampling to
> >create population estimates that favor Democratic candidates," said
> >author David W. Almasi, director of publications and media relations for
> >The National Center for Public Policy Research. "Clinton's record of
> >politicizing government agencies like the IRS and FBI - added to the fact
> >that tests of sampling have raised serious concerns about its accuracy -
> >make Republican congressmen and others leery of giving the President
> >control over mapping Congress for the next ten years."
> >
> >The National Center for Public Policy Research is a non-partisan,
> >non-profit education foundation.
> >
> >To arrange an interview, please contact David W. Almasi at (202) 543-1286
> >or DAlmasi@nationalcenter.org. The paper can be accessed over the
> >Internet at http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA210.html.
> >
> ># # #
> >
> >-------
> >To subscribe to c-news, send the message SUBSCRIBE C-NEWS, or the message
> >UNSUBSCRIBE C-NEWS to unsubscribe, to majordomo@world.std.com. Contact
> >owner-c-news@world.std.com if you have questions.
>
> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------]
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! *****
> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his
> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ
> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+---------------------
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
End of roc-digest V2 #180
*************************