From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #200 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, November 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:05:53 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: TWA800: Stone Fires Back (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:24:50 -0500 From: Ian Goddard To: dstern@copi.com Subject: TWA800: Stone Fires Back Oliver Stone fires back at ABC after their sudden cancelation of his documentary on the TWA 800 Navy-missile theory, which will interview several of the eyewitnesses. Stone said that the major news organizations are "biased and slanted" and that they "can't get their facts right." Stone also notes how ABC was behind his project for six months, but then "all of a sudden, they shut it down" -- only a few days after Federal officials started insulting Oliver Stone. Reuters reports (11/12/98), with the perfect subtitle: STONE walled A day after issuing a statement decrying ABC's decision to ground ``Declassified,'' the special about TWA Flight 800 which he was preparing with journos Tom McMahon and Colby Atlas, director Oliver Stone denounced what he called a lack of guts by network news. ``The big issue for the news departments is profits, and I am always defending myself and being marginalized by major news organizations who, ironically, can't get their facts right,'' he said. ``Their news is always so biased and slanted, and they complain about alternate means of transmitting news, like the Internet. I was never the director, I was the producer and presenter, and I approved the scripts.'' Stone was bullish about setting up the project at TNT, which did his well-received documentary about the assassinations of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy. ``The script is done, the show is ready to go, and there are a lot of witnesses not allowed to testify who saw the plane go down, and I think ABC just folded to pressure. I don't know where it came from, it could have been the FBI, or their response to a media furor. But it was so abrupt, considering they knew exactly what we were doing for six months. We weren't hiding anything, and then all of a sudden, they shut it down.'' _____________________________________________________________ REUTERS: DISH: Diaz hears 'Circus' roar. By Michael Fleming. Thursday November 12 8:16 AM ET http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/en/story.html?s=v/nm/19981112/en/film-d ish_21.html ___________________________________________ IAN GODDARD'S ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN JOURNAL ------------------------------------------- http://www.erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm - the critics are raving - "Shouldn't this be expunged?...[since] it is spreading fear and suspicion of the government." Lesley Stahl (CBS - 60 Minutes) Call the police! Newsday reports that "another site linked to Goddard's" is linked to another site that "pictures a woman's bare derrierre." BTW, I'm still (drool) looking for that site On CNN, a Federal official said Goddard's TWA 800 inquiry has caused "real damage." ergo: stopping Goddard = damage control GIVING THE BIG LIE A BLACK EYE WITH THE FIST OF ANALYTICAL INQUIRY ___________________________________________ IAN GODDARD'S ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN JOURNAL ------------------------------------------- http://www.erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:19:22 -0800 From: Jack Perrine Subject: For the Children FOR THE CHILDREN By J. Peter Mulhern Last week's election setback for Republicans was far more modest than the triumphalist liberal press would have us believe. Nonetheless, it reminds us that the Democrats are armed to the teeth for the public relations wars. The big gun in their arsenal is compassion. Democrats never miss an opportunity to remind the electorate that theirs is the party dedicated to alleviating suffering through the magic of government intervention. Every Democrat campaign since the Great Depression has relied on some form of the following argument: "We want to relieve suffering, anyone who opposes us must want suffering to continue. Our opponents are therefore bad people. We care, they don't, so vote for us." If the electorate accepted this argument uncritically, Republicans couldn't hold their majority in both houses of Congress and among the nation's governors. Plainly many voters are skeptical of the Democrat claim to hold a monopoly on decency in American politics. Many others, however, fall for the compassion shtick every time. More than sixty years after Franklin Roosevelt first took that shtick on tour, Republicans are still fumbling around for some effective way to counter it. Their leaders mutter about lower taxes and keeping government at the local level while the troops wait in vain for a frontal assault on the liberal fortress. Why can't any Republican leader even try to make the powerful case that their Democrat opponents are power-hungry hypocrites who know as much about compassion as a pig knows about Sunday? Something in the GOP's institutional genes seems to make most Republicans congenitally apologetic. They should consider borrowing a page from the Democrat play book. Democrats typically enhance their compassion shtick by larding it with sentimental references to "our children." This nauseating sentimentality should be reversible. It turns out that, for all their rhetoric, liberals waste very little compassion on children who, after all, cannot vote. Republicans should present themselves as the only hope of saving our children from those inhuman Democrats. Consider the "womb-to-tomb" time-line of human existence. Liberals have their tentacles wrapped around the continuum from end to end. The results for most children are chilling. From conception until the point at which the child fully emerges from the birth canal, she is utterly without legal protection. The "compassionate" left has seen to it that the unborn child has the status of a used Q-Tip(TM). Good news for radical feminists, clearly a bad deal for the children. Liberals have done a great deal to make life harder for children fortunate enough to survive until birth. In their early years, thanks to the Hillary Clinton "It Takes A Village" crowd, they will see little of their parents. Government will use a combination of the stick and the carrot to keep parents away from home as much as possible. Taxes are the stick. The single largest item in most family budgets will be the taxes necessary to fund omnipresent government. If the tax burden doesn't drive a parent into full time work, the government will entice her away from home with the carrot of subsidized day care. Of course, our child may not have two parents. Many dedicated liberals have worked long and hard to make this more likely. Over the last twenty years relentless propaganda about the allure of "alternative" family structures has distorted our culture (remember Murphy Brown.) Decades of misguided welfare policy and even more misguided family law reforms have distorted it further. All these distortions came to us courtesy of our caring friends on the left who cheerfully sacrificed millions of children on the alter of social change. The liberal assault on our child rises to its peak when she reaches school age. If she is fortunate, she lives far away from a school district which has fallen victim to the supervision of the federal courts. If not, she may face a long bus ride to a school far from her home. Why? "Well, dear, the class looks so much prettier if there is a nice variety in the color of the students. So you see it really is much better for you to bear the burden of travel, don't you agree?" Thanks, Mom. The horrors of bad teaching, "outcome-based" education, political correctness, and debased curriculum which our child will face are too numerous to discuss here. All those horrors have a common theme. Liberals have perpetrated or perpetuated them for the purpose of protecting teachers, thus currying favor with the teachers unions. And so it goes. In college admissions and in her career, our child, if white, will labor under a civil disability, thanks to those caring Democrats and their compassionate affirmative action programs. If she marries she can't expect society to take her marriage seriously. Liberals are busily transforming what was once universally understood as a sacred covenant before man and God instituted for the procreation and raising of children into a mere "lifestyle option," no more significant than a homosexual partnership. Our child can expect to pay at least half of everything she ever earns in taxes, because Democrats can't possibly get by with less. She has every reason to fear that, after a life spent largely in servitude to the state, she may face state-sponsored euthanasia. Democrats are no more respectful of life as it draws to a close than they are of life before birth. It is astonishing what one can advocate in the name of compassion. Democrat compassion, like a Democrat tax cut, is targeted. It is reserved for likely Democrat voters. The left routinely ignores our children as it scrambles to reward its loyal supporters. Radical feminists get abortion on demand; members of certain minority groups get affirmative action, teachers get a quiet life unruffled by any demands for performance; homosexuals get "gay rights." Our children get the shaft. The left can be your friend if you want to be cared for and you are fortunate enough to belong to one of their pet groups. But most of the children will never be wards of the nanny state. The Democrats' compassionate concern for our children is as phony as a three dollar bill. Where is the Republican willing to say so? J. Peter Mulhern can be reached at jpmulh@aol.com Published in the Nov. 16, 1998 issue of The Washington Weekly Copyright 1998 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com) Reposting permitted with this message intact - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 98 01:33:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: AK & HA received national press! Wash. Times Nov 9-15,1998, Election 98 pg. 13 (fwd) On Nov 15, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The counteroffensive, on behalf of mainstream values, continues. Kevin McGehee North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Will somebody please tell Big Media to stop polluting the mainstream? - -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Ewig Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 10:21 PM Subject: AK & HI received national press! Wash. Times Nov 9-15,1998, Election 98 pg. 13 > Last Thursday evening I was listening to a homeschool parent who >was giving a presentation. During it, she mentioned that she had a >friend who teaches in the district. She said that the teacher told her >that they were required to attend two classes during the October >inservice. This was time that the public pays the teacher for inservice >training. These workshops were given by the NEA and GLSEN was the group >doing the presenting. The purpose of the classes is to prepare the >teachers for the Rainbow Curriculum which will be in use next year. The >Rainbow Curriculum is planned to be inserted into the Health Curriculum >from Kindergarten through 12th grade. It is to teach the students that >homosexuality is normal and just another family. > > A few of us who are aware of this began calling in on talk radio >and will call again on Monday. With the sentiments of the public >concerning traditional marriage as stated by the most recent election >this is going AGAINST the community and will cause confusion among our >youngest. > > The good news is that there is time to do something about it. >Perhaps taking out an ad would be good. We should use every possible >means at our disposal of preventing this curriculum from being placed in >this district. I doubt very much if the PTA is aware of this teacher >inservice program or that they would be in favor of it being used to >further the homosexual agenda AGAINST the will of the voters and >parents.... > >(Note: Some of you who read national news may remember a problem in New >York at the beginning of this decade in which a grandmother stood on the >back of a pick up truck and raised a protest against the use of the >Rainbow curriculum in New York City schools. She developed a large >following and was very successful in prevention.) > > Since this seems to be a National Education Association project, >perhaps the alternative concept of vouchers, tuition tax credits, or >school choice which they adamantly oppose will break their monopoly on >curriculum that is used in the public school. Also, their opposition to >private and homeschooling would indicate that those alternatives might >help break their influence over these young minds. > > Most importantly, however, is that we as parents do our job with >our children and hopefully they will model us in spite of the school >curriculum. > > One of many pieces of advice that ex-Sodomite Michael Johnston >brought out is that homosexuals need help and rather than get into >discussions on their terms, i.e. discrimination, civil rights, etc., >keep going back to the theme of how they need our help and there is help >and the success for those leaving the lifestyle. > > Also, I would add that it is important for readers to understand the >dangerous behavior, its affect on disease such as the bringing back >tuberculosis and other harm it does to those involved. One comment made >by someone who was not aware was that it is genetic. It is important to >make sure that people understand that it has not been proven to be >genetic and many people are turning away from it. See the next >article... > > OVERCOMING HOMOSEXUALITY SURFACES AS NATIONAL MOVEMENT > > (Washington D.C.)--Debate intensified this summer between activists >advocating acceptance of an active homosexual lifestyle and those >helping men and women overcome the same. The nation's Capitol became the >nation's "Town Square" as Anthony Falzarano, Director of DC-based >Transformation Christian Ministries, and other ex-homosexual leaders >publicly testified of their deliverance from homosexual activity and >offered to help others do the same. THE WASHINGTON POST , for the first >time on July 31, 1998, gave front-page notice to this growing national >movement. > >Information and helps are available from TCM at Tel >202-371-0800; Fax >202-371-0378; E-mail info@pfox.org; Web site or Exodus >International at Tel 206-784-7799; Fax: 206-784-7872; Web site >. > >[from NATIONAL REPORTS, "In America Today...) > > This would make a good letter to the editor!!! > >Sincerely, > > >Ruth 452-5538 > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 98 01:30:13 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: First National Impeachment Call-in Day (fwd) On Nov 16, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In a message dated 98-11-15 21:34:45 EST, gra@inetport.com writes: << From: gra@inetport.com Sender: owner-uwsa@uwsa.com To: gra@mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net The first national call in day is being planned for Wednesday, Nov 18, 1998 by the Coalition for Equal Justice. A call-in day focuses calls on a few selected Members on each call-in day, thereby increasing effectiveness. The following have been tentatively selected to recieve calls on Wednesday: Rep. Mark Souder (R-Ind.) Rep. Billy Tauzin (R-La.) Rep. Tom Barrett (D-Wis.) Christofer Shays (R-CT) Robert Livingston(R-LA) American citizens have the Constitutional rights of equal justice and of impeachment. The Congress has a Constitutional duty to carry out a justified impeachment Impeachment protects citizens from someone who is unfit for office. A Congressional vote against a justified impeachment is a vote to destroy our system of equal justice. Congressmen have a Constitutional duty to protect our system of equal justice, not destroy it. >> =================================================================== uwsa@uwsa.com is an unmoderated mail list to discuss general government topics. To join or leave this list send mail to majordomo@uwsa.com TO: majordomo@uwsa.com Subject: - ---------------------------------------- (un)subscribe uwsa Visit our world wide web site at http://www.uwsa.com Support UWSA.COM at http://www.uwsa.com/UWSAintro.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:26:11 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fwd: More on Veterans >Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 21:47:09 -0500 >From: E Pluribus Unum >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network >Subject: More on Veterans > >Subj: Veterans Day >Date: 11/14/98 6:11:11 PM PST >From: jimnewton@juno.com (James N. Wade) > >On the 11th as usual, I marched in the Veterans Day Parade in >Indianapolis. The parade was so long that it started at 11:30 and we >didn't step off til 12:35 and we were not at the end of the line. > The wind was sharp, temp. about 48o and it was brisk. There was as >usual, a very poor turn out of spectators, but it did warm the heart >to see all the kids waving flags as we marched by. I will never >forget the wonderful woman standing at the curb on the west side of >Meridian St. who shouted "Thank You, thank you for serving our >nation". God Bless you who ever you are. > Who are these veterans?? >Some were dressed as Revolutionary War soldiers, carrying the flag of >Freedom, others in the uniform of the Civil War, WWI and WWII, Wake >Island Marine Defenders, Korea & Vietnam, Desert Storm; all hoping to >say to their fallen brothers, WE REMEMBER. > There was the ever present black flag of the POW/MIA, and all >of us saying inside our hearts, I WILL NOT FORGET. > I have read quite a lot about our founders but I can only imagine >the forging of this great nation. The road from there to here only >started as a path, just a few footsteps on unturned ground, without >much planning but filled with desire. > Our forefathers desired something, a dream that no-one had ever had >before, a rare jewel called Freedom. > President Clinton spoke on veterans day that we had all fought for >peace. That was never our intent. That is not the prize. Only a >socialist would say that. > Cuba has peace, China is at peace, North Korea is at peace, >Vietnam is at peace, but THEY DON'T HAVE FREEDOM. > After the Declaration of Independence was signed and George >Washington was made General over the Continental Army, just imagine >how he felt, when he looked upon his rag-tag un-disciplined group of >volunteers he had to use to keep this newly-formed nation from losing >to the greatest military leader of that time-Great Britain. > Washington's Army lost battle after battle and it seems that many >wondered how he would ever be able to hold the nation from total loss. >But time after time, when he would be missing, his closest aids and >companions would fine him on his knees for an hour or two at a time in >deep prayer, asking God Almighty for the strength to continue our >fight to establish FREEDOM. > As a final move, when pushed with only days remaining on the >enlistment of his poorly fed and clothed men, Washington made that >famous crossing of the Delaware to sack the Hesson camp, a most need >victory. His men could have quit at any time and secured peace. But >they knew that peace would been the price of chains and slavery, just >like what Patrick Henry said "is life so dear or peace so sweet as to >be purchased at the price of chains and slavery ? > Each and every veteran knows the price of Freedom. I pray each and >every day that time, and desire will bring to us a worthy, honest, >brave and reverent President like Washington. > Established as a uniting of sovereign states, this nation is like no >other on the face of this earth, totally unique in all of recorded >history. But , quoting from President Lincoln "it is the duty of >nations, as well as of men, to owe their dependence upon the >overruling power of God. We have been the recipients of the choicest >blessings of heaven. We have been preserved, these many years, in >peace and prosperity, We have grown in numbers, wealth and power as >no other nation has ever grown; but we have forgotten God ! We have >forgotten the gracious Hand which preserved us in peace and >multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly >imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings >were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own." > As our fighting veterans of WWII brought victory to the world with >the defeat of the Axis powers and Japan, we found our great nation in >a abundant position. As the 1940's ended, we hit a peak, possessing >over half the wealth of the world and about three times more gold >reserves than the rest of the world . > We produced 60 percent of the world's steel, 73 percent of the >worlds vehicles, 51 percent of all gasoline used around the globe. > As of 1995, we had fallen to be the biggest debtor nation, with >combined private and corporation, and government debt topping >over 30 trillion dollars. (Note From;WJB: - As of 1998, Government >Composite liquid investments funds, City, County, State and Federal >are equal to 60 trillion + ) > We can communicate perfectly with the space crafts on moon landings >but the average man on the street can't even communicate with his wife >or neighbor. To quote column writer James Reston " we are >overpopulated, undercivilized, divided, corrupted, and bewildered, >destitute of faith and terrified of skepticism. War, crime, >pollution, racial tention, political cynicism and pessimism are our >companions." > America has, in these few short years, fallen to a position of >virtual moral, financial and spiritual bankruptcy. > This past year alone, we have been startled by the school shootings >of kids killing kids, of small 14 year old kids killing 8 year old >kids, of 8 year olds raping 6 year olds. Is this the great society?? > Man has options, he always has had options. We either condemn or >condone every action we see or know about. We have choices. > One of my suggestions: read the book "Our Sacred Honor" by >William J. Bennett; a collection of inspiring stories, letters, poems >and speeches by our founders. > Read your Bible over and over , for within its pages is contained >the rules of life. Re-establish Honor, Virtue, Intregrity, Moral >values so necessary to preserve all life. > Most of all, on your knees, tell God that you love his and need him >every moment of every day. Decide to make a change, a difference to >live right and true to Christ. > >To all my veteran brothers and sisters, Happy Veterans Day. > >Respectfully > >Jim Wade, >USMC >-- >****************************************************************** > E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group > P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 > Grove City, OH 43123 > > Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse > 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) > >http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com >****************************************************************** > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Nov 98 17:07:02 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The editor is right. (fwd) On Nov 16, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Police shooting victim files lawsuit Children finally turned over to >grandmother in Sallisaw >By David M. Bresnahan >Copyright 1998 WorldNetDaily.com > >[Editors Note: Folks, the sooner we decriminalize drugs, >the better off we will be for many reasons.] > > > The victim of a police shooting in Sallisaw, Oklahoma, has filed a >federal lawsuit to recover damages, and officials still refuse to >provide information to the public. > >Press reports and talk-radio hosts across the nation have referred >to the actions of Sallisaw Police on Oct. 23 as "Gestapo tactics." >Police stormed into a trailer home and shot Patricia Eymer while >she was holding her 4-year-old daughter. An infant was only a few >feet away, and a 13-year-old daughter passed out in fear and >shock. > >Eymer was shot in the right shoulder, and is recovering. It is still >unknown whether doctors will be able to perform a shoulder >replacement, or if she will lose her arm, according to Eymer. > >"We filed a 1983 civil rights suit in federal court," said Daniel >George, Sallisaw attorney for Eymer. "The officer and city have >not yet been served, nor do they know of it. It's fairly obvious that >a .45 caliber slug in the shoulder will tend to violate your civil >rights." > >Despite the criticisms being raised, the Sallisaw mayor, the >Sallisaw Police Department, the Sequoyah County sheriff's office, >the district attorney, and the Oklahoma State Bureau of >Investigation have all refused to provide information to >WorldNetDaily. Repeated and frequent attempts to get information >have been met with silence. > >Mrs. Eymer has not been charged, however her husband, Steven >Eymer, and some guests in her home were arrested on drug >charges. The evidence listed in court records does not identify any >"controlled dangerous substance" or marijuana to support the >charges made. > >Detective Larry Blount led a team of Sallisaw officers on a drug >raid at the Eymer home. He was assisted by officers Dawn >Jerman, David Bethany, Freeman (first name unknown), and John >Owens. Travis Holman is mentioned in the evidence report, but >the police claim he is not an officer and they will not say who he >is. > >George has identified Owens as the shooter in his suit. > >Police refuse to explain what evidence they had to justify the need >for the search, nor will they explain why it was necessary to >conduct a no knock search in a pre-dawn raid. Neighbors say they >believe another neighbor falsely told police that the Eymers were >making methamphetamine and selling drugs. > >The warrant states that Detective Blount showed "probable cause" >that there was evidence at the Eymer home that would result in a >charge of "unlawful possession and/or distribution of controlled >dangerous substances." Specifically, the warrant authorized a >search for methamphetamine, and the items associated with its >manufacture and sale. > >No such items were listed in court records of evidence found by >police. > >The fact that they live in a very modest single-wide mobile home >with no telephone is evidence of their income level, according to >George. Both cars owned by the Eymers do not operate and are in >need of repair. The family's income is extremely low. The attorney >pointed out that there was no evidence the Eymers were making >money selling drugs. The evidence list provided by the court does >not list any drugs found in the home, although it does list some >marijuana pipes. > >Mr. Eymer said their behavior and the evidence obtained did not >warrant the dramatic entrance of the police into the home. He also >said there was no provocation to justify police firing at his wife. >Everyone in the home cooperated with police and offered no >resistance, he said. > >The Eymers' three children were taken by child protective services. >Grandparents arrived the day of the shooting and were not >permitted to take custody of the children, or even see them. They >said they were concerned about the needs of the children after >witnessing a traumatic event, and they could not find out if the >children were getting emotional help. > >Three days after the shooting, Mrs. Martha Smyrl, who is Mrs. >Eymer's mother, finally saw the children for a few minutes at a >court hearing. > >"The 5-year-old, when I seen her in court, she came running to me >and said, 'Grandma I want to come home with you.' She said, >'Grandma, Mama's been shot.' I told her, I said, 'Honey, Mama's >okay. She's doing fine. I had to keep her calm," explained Mrs. >Smyrl. > >"They won't tell us nothing about the kids," said Mrs. Smyrl -- >more than a week after the shooting. "They wouldn't tell me where >they were at. I couldn't see them. I'm their grandmother. I >practically helped raise these kids. This is what I don't understand." > >Mr. Smyrl said he was told that Oklahoma would not give custody >to relatives who live out of state. The Smyrls live in Texas. After >Mrs. Smyrl began looking for a place to rent, she was told the only >place acceptable for her to have the children would be in Sallisaw. > >Mr. Eymer says the traumatic experience the children went >through, and the lack of contact with family members is a form of >child abuse. > >The children were finally turned over to Mrs. Smyrl earlier this >week. She said a great deal of grief for the family and the children >could have been avoided if she was given custody earlier. > >There are still many unanswered questions about this case, and >police continue their silence. Mrs. Eymer said she and her family >are being followed by police wherever they go. The apparent >intimidation has made her more determined to proceed with her >federal lawsuit. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 98 05:46:54 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: U.S. couple loses suit against gun maker (fwd) On Nov 17, Bob Mueller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 11:21 PM ET 11/16/98 Bereaved U.S. couple loses suit against gun maker OAKLAND, Calif. (Reuters) - The parents of a boy who died while playing with a gun lost their bid Monday to force handgun maker Beretta U.S.A. to pay damages for failing to include safety features on the pistol that killed him. In a case watched closely on both sides of the debate over gun control, a 12-member jury sided with Beretta in the wrongful-death lawsuit that Lynn and Griffin Dix of Berkeley filed against the company after their son, Kenzo, 15, was killed in 1994. The boy died as he and a schoolmate were playing with his father's Beretta 9 mm semiautomatic handgun. Apparently unaware that a bullet remained in the chamber, the friend fired the gun at Kenzo and killed him. Lawyers for Beretta, which is headquartered in Italy, had argued that responsibility for the death lay with Griffin Dix, for leaving a loaded gun in a camera bag, and Kenzo's friend, for ignoring basic rules of gun safety. The Dixes had claimed that the gun manufacturer should have designed the weapon with features to prevent unauthorized users from firing it. Gun control supporters had hoped the case would usher in a wave of product liability lawsuits against gun manufacturers. It was not immediately known whether the Dixes would appeal Monday's ruling. ^REUTERS@ Bob Mueller - Consultant Compuware Corporation THE UNITED STATES TROTTING ASSOCIATION 614-224-2291 Ext. 3234 bmueller@ustrotting.com Get into Harness Racing at http://www.ustrotting.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:34:52 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Twinks in D.C. Here's some thoughts. I'm slowly changing my mind on some of this L'Affaire Lewinski stuff. 1. Bill Clinton is a morals free old goat from a white trash state who thinks nothing of getting his XXXX XXXXed by an intern just out of her teens. 2. Monica is a morals free young piece of trash who finds herself in the White House and the thing she most wants to do is XXXX the President's XXXX. She sounds extremely young, not at all naive. 3. Linda Tripp is a morals free woman who thinks nothing of taping, coercing, running to the prosecutor's office, taking down spreadsheets of when the President's XXXX got XXXXed, etc. Whatever compassion for either the Prez, Monica, or the Nation she ever had is long sense gone. Its really a toss-up as to which one of the above is crazier than any of the others. I'll leave Ken Starr off the list, cause he appears to be a semi-diligent prosecutor who couldn't get solid evidence in filegate, whitewater, or The Miracle of the Billings Records, so he has pursued this perjury case. In short, I have *no* faith that anykind of "just" outcome is going to come out of this. Let the regieme roll on. jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:15:57 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: Twinks in D.C. John Curtis wrote: > > Here's some thoughts. I'm slowly changing my mind on some > of this L'Affaire Lewinski stuff. > > 1. Bill Clinton is a morals free old goat from a white trash > state who thinks nothing of getting his XXXX XXXXed > by an intern just out of her teens. There is ample evidence over the long term to draw this conclusion. > > 2. Monica is a morals free young piece of trash who finds herself > in the White House and the thing she most wants to do > is XXXX the President's XXXX. She sounds extremely > young, not at all naive. There is ample evidence to draw this conclusion also. > > 3. Linda Tripp is a morals free woman who thinks nothing of > taping, coercing, running to the prosecutor's office, > taking down spreadsheets of when the President's XXXX got > XXXXed, etc. Whatever compassion for either the Prez, > Monica, or the Nation she ever had is long sense gone. This conclusion lacks foundation. Except for the Carville attack allegations, which only the ignorant take at face value, and only those who wish to obstruct justice repeat, I know of no evidence to pin down Tripp's motives or morals. Do you? One could just as well conclude that she observed activities in the White House that revolted her (as they would most of us), and since the media obviously weren't disposed to exercise their 1st Amendment keep-government-honest responsibilities against a Democratic administration (even one known to be lying to them), Tripp may have decided to gather evidence and become a "whistle blower" (as I would have if I had the courage). That motive would put her in a patriot class with Woodward and Bernstein, along with a grossly abused professional named Ken Starr. It comes down to a choice between the Clinton-Carville version or finding the truth. Take your choice. FWIW. Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:12:41 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Twinks in D.C. > >This conclusion lacks foundation. Except for the Carville >attack allegations, which only the ignorant take at face value, and >only those who wish to obstruct justice repeat, I know of no >evidence to pin down Tripp's motives or morals. Do you? > >One could just as well conclude that she observed activities in >the White House that revolted her (as they would most of us), and >since the media obviously weren't disposed to exercise their 1st >Amendment keep-government-honest responsibilities against a >Democratic administration (even one known to be lying to them), >Tripp may have decided to gather evidence and become a "whistle >blower" (as I would have if I had the courage). That motive would >put her in a patriot class with Woodward and Bernstein, along with >a grossly abused professional named Ken Starr. > >It comes down to a choice between the Clinton-Carville version >or finding the truth. Take your choice. > > hmmm. Maybe. I don't believe that the truth is something that the R's have a monopoly on. Carville is an attack dog for hire. Listen to the tapes of Tripp telling Monica to put the dress in a ziplock bag and put it with her treasures. Tripp taped her, trip told her how to handle evidence, Tripp went to the OIC. The FBI pulled Monica in, the special prosecuters pressured her with threat of prosecution to tell everything she knew. This is all consistent with a setup: Clinton - powerful political figure with a well-known weakness for daliances with young women Starr - squeaky clean front man Tripp - acted like an agent, telling Monica what to do, gathering evidence, taping her, reporting back to OIC and who knows else. Monica - honey trap. witting or unwitting. She walked into that office knowing she wanted to have a sexual affair with the Prez. and virtually everybody in the office knew what was going on. I don't think that the R's are acting as some squeaky clean speakers for morality here. I think that Clinton is a disgrace, and he was set up. Linda Tripp didn't act in any normal, defensible manner. How the heck did she wind up at the Pentagon with Lewinsky, anyway? I'd like to listen to the tapes instead of just the snippets we are getting. Apply the France test to all this. If this had happened in some far off land, would you doubt that the Prez's opponents set him up? What does a sane person do who is disgusted by the personal morals of the people she works with/for? She finds another damn job. She doesn't start telling people to collect semen samples (effectively), tape them, then run to the FBI and the OIC. Don't tell me Tripp was upset about a perjerous affidavit in a civil suit. She was acting as a political dirty operator. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #200 *************************