From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #201 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Sunday, November 29 1998 Volume 02 : Number 201 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:21:33 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: Twinks in D.C. John Curtis wrote: > hmmm. Maybe. I don't believe that the truth is something > that the R's have a monopoly on. Carville is an attack > dog for hire. Never said they did. Why must this be a partisan issue? It's about truth, facts and logic (vs propaganda). Neither party is famous for any of these (except the latter). > > Listen to the tapes of Tripp telling Monica to put the > dress in a ziplock bag and put it with her treasures. > > Tripp taped her, trip told her how to handle evidence, > Tripp went to the OIC. The FBI pulled Monica in, the > special prosecuters pressured her with threat of prosecution > to tell everything she knew. > > This is all consistent with a setup: > It's also consistent with an experienced Washingtonian (of which Tripp is one, as I am also), who knows that little people (media excluded) can and will be destroyed if they take on the power establishment. The gutless defense against destruction is to adope the see/hear/speak no evil principle. But if patriotism gets the better of someone, the other defense is to build an irrefutable case against the powerful that the media would kill to get their hands on. That means documentation. Ask Tripp. I'm sure she now wishes she had adopted the gutless see/hear/speak no evil strategy, but something prevented her from doing that, and God bless her for having the courage. Otherwise, we would never have learned the facts and truth. What we do with them is a separate question, but I believe we're better off, and in far less danger of out-of-control government, knowing the facts/truth than not knowing it. Whatever her motives, Tripp is responsible. skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:36:25 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Twinks in D.C. > >It's also consistent with an experienced Washingtonian (of which >Tripp is one, as I am also), who knows that little people (media >excluded) can and will be destroyed if they take on the power >establishment. The gutless defense against destruction is to >adope the see/hear/speak no evil principle. But if patriotism > Skip, You make some good points here. The whole affair is pretty bogus and Tripp might have just concern for herself. I'm just noting that a switch flipped in my brain when I heard part of the tapes. I don't think either side comes out looking good on this. It looks like plots within plots. Maybe seats of high power have always looked like this. The only thing that makes me cheery about this is that Clinton is revealed as a lying sleazebag, and 90% of the public believe that. Its nice to have public what I've believed in private for a long time. The bad thing about this is the sheer number of people who have a totally confused morality or no discernable morality at all. Best guess on outcome: voted out of committee with recomendation to impeach. Not passed on the House floor. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:01:51 -0800 (PST) From: Harry Barnett Subject: Re: Twinks in D.C. On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, John Curtis wrote: > The only thing that makes me cheery about this is that > Clinton is revealed as a lying sleazebag, True enough. That Clinton is a liar, and a sleazebag, that is. I'll take your word for it that you are cheery. > and 90% of > the public believe that. Would that it were true. I don't think it is anywhere near 90%. I would put the number at around 35-40%, maybe less. > Its nice to have public what > I've believed in private for a long time. The bad thing > about this is the sheer number of people who have a totally > confused morality or no discernable morality at all. Scary, isn't it? It probably scares them, too. That's why they can't face the truth. Stay low, keep moving, watch your six. > > Best guess on outcome: voted out of committee with recomendation > to impeach. Not passed on the House floor. It's a charade. The 900 files says he walks, period. It makes you kind of wonder what was IN those files that he has all those people by the gonads, doesn't it? You think YOU got problems. What about the next judge that has to hammer some petty criminal for perjury? "Hmmmm, do I hypocritically give this guy five years, and make him irreconcilably bitter? Or do I let HIM walk, too?" Think about it: Anybody, ANYBODY who is punished for lying under oath will be embittered about it, and will do what embittered people always do: try to get even. "Getting even" will probably focus on weak, vulnerable targets. Women, children, the elderly. Or even the first unlucky schmuck who stumbles into his life script. What the Congress is about to do is start to turn our cities into replicas of Johannesburg, South Africa. Take a look at what is happening there to get a glimpse of the future. (Not the propaganda from the "Mandela walks on water!" bunch: make contact with and talk to citizens who LIVE there. There is at least one Web Page, whose URL I can't find at the moment, that has daily updates on "Crime in South Africa".) Regards, Harry - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:15:37 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: FW: Ford's response to e-mails (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:29:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Grubb, Ken" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: Ford's response to e-mails It was reported last week that Ford Motor Company was flying a Vietnamese flag at it's headquarters in Dearborn. Here is the reply from John W. Spelich, Global News Director, Ford Motor Company. Ken Grubb Miami, FL ********************************************** > "Nwatch, Test (T.)" on 11/20/98 05:55:33 PM > To: Ian A MacDonald/Military Car Sales > cc: > Subject: Here is Ford's statement > E-Mail Ref #: 01-WNY-4721112 > > The Ford Motor Company World Headquarters building in Dearborn, > Michigan, has two major flag displays. The first is a > 70-foot-tall single flagpole that holds the American flag. A > second display, which lines the circular office driveway, contains > 42 40-foot-tall flagpoles. Using various national flags, these > poles form a graphic display of the countries in which Ford either > has a manufacturing investment, or a significant sales presence. > The American flag is part of that display. In 1995, the United > States normalized relations with Vietnam and opened an embassy in > Hanoi. In late 1997, and consistent with U.S. policy toward > Vietnam, we opened a small assembly plant in Vietnam to produce > trucks for sale in that market. As a result, the flag of the > nation of Vietnam is part of Ford's World Headquarters display. > > Earlier this week, we received a fair amount of comments from > customers and others via telephone and e-mail inquiring about our > flag displays, wondering about the configuration of our flag > display and asking why the American and Vietnamese flags were > adjacent to one another. After reviewing flag etiquette rules, we > determined that we had made an error in placing the American flag > on poles at both ends of the horseshoe shaped drive. > > The intent was to place the American flag in a primary position, > and then have the flags of our other markets follow in > alphabetical order, ending with Venezuela and Vietnam. We elected > to end this display with another American flag, which is why the > American flag was adjacent to the Vietnamese flag -- not the Viet > Cong flag, as was suggested in several of the e-mail notes. > > According to the laws governing a display of this type, we should > have flown only one American flag instead of two. As such, we are > moving immediately to reconfigure our flag display to ensure it > conforms with flag etiquette. > > From now on, the American flag in our driveway display will be in > the proper location in the row, to the left as the building is > viewed from the street. Starting with the flag of Argentina, our > other markets will follow in alphabetical order in the row, ending > in Vietnam. > > We are leaving the American flag on the larger single flagpole in > place. We want to thank everyone who called this issue to our > attention. > > As a separate issue, Ford Motor Company has supported financially, > and plans to continue to support, many veteran-related causes, > including the Disabled American Veterans. In 1986, Ford paid to > inscribe the names of 108 Americans killed during the war onto the > wall of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington, D.C. These > names had been omitted when the wall was dedicated in 1982. > > Sincerely, > > John W. Spelich > Director, Global News > Ford Motor Company > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:17:58 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Re: FW: Ford's response to e-mails (fwd) It would be a great jesture if Ford would put the Vietnamese flag below a "POW/MIA" flag! Tom At 08:15 AM 11/24/98 -0600, you wrote: > > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:29:58 -0500 (EST) >From: "Grubb, Ken" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: FW: Ford's response to e-mails > >It was reported last week that Ford Motor Company was flying a Vietnamese >flag at it's headquarters in Dearborn. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:55:15 -0600 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Col. Cooper's Latest http://www.concentric.net/~mkeithr/jeff/jeff6_12.html A couple of snippets: - -- If you visit the Jefferson Memorial in Washington you will note that it is your civic duty to be politically incorrect. In gold letters around the inside of the rotunda President Jefferson declares unalterable opposition to "every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Political correctness is neither political nor is it correct. It amounts to social censorship, and the sooner we spit it out, the better. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The behavior of our federal and state ninja in their conduct of firearms investigations is quite peculiar. They seem given to explosive speech and foul language. In every case we have heard about recently the people who break down the door on the possibility that there may be an improperly registered weapon in the house give forth with language which makes law enforcement look bad. There is a curious violence about this whole matter which is hard for me to understand. In the two most flagrant cases - Waco and Ruby Ridge - all they had to do was ask, but when it appears that there may be even passive resistance to these midnight riders, they seem to lose all sense of balance. They not only disgrace themselves by their speech, but they frequently resort to physical force with no cause at all. Family member John Schaefer was on the receiving end of such an action in New Jersey recently, and he gave us a clear description of it at the reunion. And just last month in Taft, California, an honest shopkeeper, with no previous record of any kind, wound up dead behind his counter. The ninja reported that he had killed himself and then they had shot him three times after he was dead. I cannot put much credence in that story, but that is what appeared in the papers. Apparently a certain kind of enforcement type in this country operates in deadly fear, warranted or not. Up till now I have not heard of a victim who shot back and killed the law enforcement officer. (An exception was the initiation of action by shooting a pet dog at Ruby Ridge.) These people seem terribly afraid. One wonders of what. - ---- Can't add a thing to that! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:21:50 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fwd: Subject: USA TODAY media hoax >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:52:38 -0500 >From: root >To: Tom Cloyes > >From: jpfo@dbeatty.worldweb.net >Subject: USA TODAY media hoax > > > USA TODAY REFUSES TO PUBLISH JPFO REBUTTAL TO ONE-SIDED "DEBATE" ON NEW > FIREARMS REGULATIONS > > USA TODAY does not want you to read this letter, when you do, you > will be aware of the part > they play in the "media hoax". Please forward this to everyone you can > think of. > > Offering two articles that agree with one another, and calling it a > "debate," is a classic technique of propaganda. USA Today joined the > ranks of master disinformers on its November 6, 1998 editorial page when > it published two pieces calling for more firearms regulation. It was a > case of Tweedledum vs. Tweedledee, to which JPFO objected promptly and > clearly. > > To date, USA Today has not printed JPFO's letter, even though the > letter fell within the length limits of their op-ed section and was sent > almost immediately. We can surmise that the editors could not abide the > embarrassment of the truth. The text of JPFO's letter follows below in > its entirety. > > The latest assaults on the right to keep and bear arms focus on "gun > safety" as the key issue. Watch how glibly the anti-gun rights > lobbyists will mix rhetoric about criminal misuse of firearms with calls > for trigger locks and other "safety" devices designed to prevent > accidental discharge. The American public who are as increasingly > unfamiliar with firearms as they are with detecting propaganda, may be > fooled by this latest trick. > > Take action right now! Every person reading this alert must send an > e-mail now to the editor of USA Today. Use the online form at: > > http://survey.usatoday.com/cgi-bin/feedback.cgi > > or call USA Today at (703) 276-3400. > -- ask why they refuse to acknowledge JPFO's message and > publish JPFO's response to its editorials. Ask why USA Today is apparently > afraid to publish JPFO's views. Urge USA Today to call on JPFO for truly > opposing views on "guncontrol" issues. We need thousands of people > to respond, please post and repost this message! > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:24:45 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Fwd: USA TODAY media hoax The other message was truncated, here's the complete one. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. Tom >From: jpfo@dbeatty.worldweb.net >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:29:56 -0500 >To: Tom Cloyes >Subject: USA TODAY media hoax > > >Dear e-mail subscriber, > > Due to a memory allocation error (stupid programmer) this message >was previously truncated (cut off). Please accept the humble apologies of your >webmaster (flames to root@dbeatty.worldweb.net) and read the whole >message below: > > > USA TODAY REFUSES TO PUBLISH JPFO REBUTTAL TO ONE-SIDED "DEBATE" ON NEW > FIREARMS REGULATIONS > > USA TODAY does not want you to read this letter, when you do, you > will be aware of the part > they play in the "media hoax". Please forward this to everyone you can > think of. > > Offering two articles that agree with one another, and calling it a > "debate," is a classic technique of propaganda. USA Today joined the > ranks of master disinformers on its November 6, 1998 editorial page when > it published two pieces calling for more firearms regulation. It was a > case of Tweedledum vs. Tweedledee, to which JPFO objected promptly and > clearly. > > To date, USA Today has not printed JPFO's letter, even though the > letter fell within the length limits of their op-ed section and was sent > almost immediately. We can surmise that the editors could not abide the > embarrassment of the truth. The text of JPFO's letter follows below in > its entirety. > > The latest assaults on the right to keep and bear arms focus on "gun > safety" as the key issue. Watch how glibly the anti-gun rights > lobbyists will mix rhetoric about criminal misuse of firearms with calls > for trigger locks and other "safety" devices designed to prevent > accidental discharge. The American public who are as increasingly > unfamiliar with firearms as they are with detecting propaganda, may be > fooled by this latest trick. > > Take action right now! Every person reading this alert must send an > e-mail now to the editor of USA Today. Use the online form at: > > http://survey.usatoday.com/cgi-bin/feedback.cgi > > or call USA Today at (703) 276-3400. > -- ask why they refuse to acknowledge JPFO's message and > publish JPFO's response to its editorials. Ask why USA Today is apparently > afraid to publish JPFO's views. Urge USA Today to call on JPFO for truly > opposing views on "guncontrol" issues. We need thousands of people > to respond, please post and repost this message! > > The text of the JPFO letter, sent via email on November 9, follows: > > November 9, 1998 > > Letters to the Editor > USA Today > 1000 Wilson Blvd. > Arlington, VA 22229 > > Dear Editor, > > USA Today's November 6 "Today's Debate" column used an old propaganda > trick: put up two articles that take the same view and call it a > "debate." The USA Today editorial argued that the federal government > should require trigger locks on all firearms. The "opposing view" came > from New Orleans Mayor Morial who thinks suing firearms manufacturers, > dealers, and trade associations is a good idea. > > Both articles were united in saying that the firearms suppliers are > responsible for people's misuse of guns. Both articles twisted > statistics to make their points. USA Today said: "14 children under age > 19 are killed each day of the year." The stat is silly: "children > under 19" includes 18-year old adults, and most of the deaths are of > elderly teenagers, not toddlers. USA Today's editorial wanted federally > mandated trigger locks on guns -- but most of these deaths were > intentional killings. Trigger locks don't stop gangs and murderers. > > Mayor Morial pulled the same statistical stunt. He wrote: "we don't > want to ban guns; we want guns made safer." He cited a single case of a > child killed by another child who found a loaded gun. All of his other > data was about criminal use of firearms, but he mixed it with rhetoric > about airbags and car bumpers. His proposal, to sue the suppliers, > won't stop gangs and murderers. > > To help prevent future one-sided "debates," our organization hereby > volunteers to provide a truly "opposing" view when the "Today's Debate" > feature next visits the "gun control" debate. > > (signed) > > Richard Stevens > Firearms Sentinel Editor > Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > > (414) 769-0760 > > JPFO is America's most aggressive defender of your second amendment > rights. If you are not a member, why not join right now? Call JPFO at > (414) 769-0760 or visit our website for details, just > click on http://www.jpfo.org You can even use our secure online > membership form at : > > https://ssl.worldweb.net/jpfo/membrssl.htm > > Won't you join us in the fight to destroy "gun control"? > > > > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 10:43:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Natl Call-in Day. Plz call ASAP (fwd) For those who missed it, this is an addition to the call-in list demanding Impeachment. On Nov 25, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The following have been selected to be added to calls beginning on Tuesday. Please call. John Edward Porter (R-Ill) 202 225-4835 Peter King (R-NY) 202 225-7896 James Traficant (D-OH) 202 225-5261 Please call all three Wed. It's important. Rich Martin Editor of Slick [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Nov 98 10:44:08 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: USA TODAY media hoax (fwd) On Nov 25, Tom Cloyes wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The other message was truncated, here's the complete one. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. Tom >From: jpfo@dbeatty.worldweb.net >Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:29:56 -0500 >To: Tom Cloyes >Subject: USA TODAY media hoax > > >Dear e-mail subscriber, > > Due to a memory allocation error (stupid programmer) this message >was previously truncated (cut off). Please accept the humble apologies of your >webmaster (flames to root@dbeatty.worldweb.net) and read the whole >message below: > > > USA TODAY REFUSES TO PUBLISH JPFO REBUTTAL TO ONE-SIDED "DEBATE" ON NEW > FIREARMS REGULATIONS > > USA TODAY does not want you to read this letter, when you do, you > will be aware of the part > they play in the "media hoax". Please forward this to everyone you can > think of. > > Offering two articles that agree with one another, and calling it a > "debate," is a classic technique of propaganda. USA Today joined the > ranks of master disinformers on its November 6, 1998 editorial page when > it published two pieces calling for more firearms regulation. It was a > case of Tweedledum vs. Tweedledee, to which JPFO objected promptly and > clearly. > > To date, USA Today has not printed JPFO's letter, even though the > letter fell within the length limits of their op-ed section and was sent > almost immediately. We can surmise that the editors could not abide the > embarrassment of the truth. The text of JPFO's letter follows below in > its entirety. > > The latest assaults on the right to keep and bear arms focus on "gun > safety" as the key issue. Watch how glibly the anti-gun rights > lobbyists will mix rhetoric about criminal misuse of firearms with calls > for trigger locks and other "safety" devices designed to prevent > accidental discharge. The American public who are as increasingly > unfamiliar with firearms as they are with detecting propaganda, may be > fooled by this latest trick. > > Take action right now! Every person reading this alert must send an > e-mail now to the editor of USA Today. Use the online form at: > > http://survey.usatoday.com/cgi-bin/feedback.cgi > > or call USA Today at (703) 276-3400. > -- ask why they refuse to acknowledge JPFO's message and > publish JPFO's response to its editorials. Ask why USA Today is apparently > afraid to publish JPFO's views. Urge USA Today to call on JPFO for truly > opposing views on "guncontrol" issues. We need thousands of people > to respond, please post and repost this message! > > The text of the JPFO letter, sent via email on November 9, follows: > > November 9, 1998 > > Letters to the Editor > USA Today > 1000 Wilson Blvd. > Arlington, VA 22229 > > Dear Editor, > > USA Today's November 6 "Today's Debate" column used an old propaganda > trick: put up two articles that take the same view and call it a > "debate." The USA Today editorial argued that the federal government > should require trigger locks on all firearms. The "opposing view" came > from New Orleans Mayor Morial who thinks suing firearms manufacturers, > dealers, and trade associations is a good idea. > > Both articles were united in saying that the firearms suppliers are > responsible for people's misuse of guns. Both articles twisted > statistics to make their points. USA Today said: "14 children under age > 19 are killed each day of the year." The stat is silly: "children > under 19" includes 18-year old adults, and most of the deaths are of > elderly teenagers, not toddlers. USA Today's editorial wanted federally > mandated trigger locks on guns -- but most of these deaths were > intentional killings. Trigger locks don't stop gangs and murderers. > > Mayor Morial pulled the same statistical stunt. He wrote: "we don't > want to ban guns; we want guns made safer." He cited a single case of a > child killed by another child who found a loaded gun. All of his other > data was about criminal use of firearms, but he mixed it with rhetoric > about airbags and car bumpers. His proposal, to sue the suppliers, > won't stop gangs and murderers. > > To help prevent future one-sided "debates," our organization hereby > volunteers to provide a truly "opposing" view when the "Today's Debate" > feature next visits the "gun control" debate. > > (signed) > > Richard Stevens > Firearms Sentinel Editor > Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > > (414) 769-0760 > > JPFO is America's most aggressive defender of your second amendment > rights. If you are not a member, why not join right now? Call JPFO at > (414) 769-0760 or visit our website for details, just > click on http://www.jpfo.org You can even use our secure online > membership form at : > > https://ssl.worldweb.net/jpfo/membrssl.htm > > Won't you join us in the fight to destroy "gun control"? [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Nov 98 11:33:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RAPTUS: [Fwd: CQOD -- 11/26/98 -- Baillie on giving thanks to God] (fwd) Happy Thanks Giving folks! On Nov 26, Sandra wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 00:00:11 -0500 From: owner-cqod@gospelcom.net Subject: CQOD -- 11/26/98 -- Baillie on giving thanks to God Christian Quotation of the Day November 26, 1998 Thanksgiving (U.S.) I thank Thee, O Lord God, that though with liberal hand Thou hast at all times showered thy blessing upon our human kind, yet in Jesus Christ Thou hast done greater Things for us than Thou ever didst before: Making home sweeter and friends dearer: Turning sorrow into gladness and pain into the soul's victory: Robbing death of its sting: Robbing sin of its power: Making peace more peaceful and joy more joyful and faith and hope more secure. Amen. ... John Baillie (1886-1960), A Diary of Private Prayer _______________________________________________________________ CQOD Compilation Copyright 1998, Robert McAnally Adams, Curator CQOD Home Page: http://www.gospelcom.net/cqod Subscription info: http://www.gospelcom.net/cqod/cqodlist.htm Comments and problems: email to curator@gospelcom.net [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Nov 98 23:48:20 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fwd: ANNOUNCEMENT] UN WATCH (fwd) On Nov 28, Jurist wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] UN WATCH - UN WATCH - UN WATCH - UN WATCH - UN WATCH - UN WATCH While the local and State RKBA organizations fight regional anti-gun laws and ordinances, we have to be aware of what is going on - hidden from the scrutiny of network news and legal reporting services. Treaties... the Law of the Land on the same level as an Act of Congress, have been used by the Clinton administration to outflank a balky Congress. Remember a $50 billion loan made to Mexico -- against the will of the Congress? Remember Clinton's appointment of Bill Lan Lee -- against the will of Congress? Clinton's recent signing of the Tokyo Global Warming Treaty -- against the will of Congress -- even though no treaty is *supposed* to go into effect without the advice and consent of the Senate? Remember Clinton's Executive Order banning the import of foreign semi-autos -- against the ineffectual protests of the Republicans as a gross abuse of executive office? Ladies and Gentlemen of the RKBA, I urge you to pay attention to what is going on with the UN, as Clinton is using this route to outflank the normal checks and balances against presidential power. Donna Ferolie is our woman on the job on UN Watch. Here is her press release. In liberty, Jurist - -- The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA - --------------26321F0A48F8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by mail.amdyne.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.1); Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:06:49 -0500 Received: by mail.amdyne.net from smtp11.bellglobal.com [204.101.251.53] (SLmail 3.1.2948 (Release Build)); Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:06:48 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp3844.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.218.4]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19220; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:05:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <365F93AA.7564@sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:09:46 -0800 From: Donna Ferolie X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-SYMPA (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Jurist" CC: sentiger@ccsalpha2.nrl.navy.mil, afn62971@afn.org Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT References: <3653027E.13FB@amdyne.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ANNOUNCEMENT I am scheduled to attend the next United Nations workshop in Vienna for this coming January 1999. I would like to extend my deepest appreciation to the NRA for allowing me to attend under their banner. Donna Ferolie ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^'' [ the following is a condensed version of the Breitkreuz press release ] Dennis Young , Garry Breitkreuz's assistant sent over the most interesting news release last week - pertaining to " DEPART. DENIES EXISTENCE OF AXWORTHY'S OPEN LETTER ON GLOBAL GUN CONTROL ". He commented on the denials by officials in the Department of Foreign Affairs of the existence of an " Open Letter " which Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axworthy delivered at " The Olso Meeting on Small Arms ". Reuters even quoted from Axworthy's " Open Letter " in a wire story titled " Small Arms reductions theme of new Olso talks " and now they say it doesn't exist ? asked the incredulous MP. Breitkreuz was forced to file an Access to Information Request in a last ditch attempt to get the Open Letter. The Reuters article said, " These are the weapons that cause the most death and injury. Small arms and light weapons designed and manufactured for defense or internal security purposes should be restricted to military and police organizations only, and then only in such quantities that can be justified for legitimate defense or security needs f those countries, " Axworthy wrote. Breitkreuz said, " The Liberal Government's gun control agenda was made clear last November by Deputy Herb Grey." Grey was in Washington signing an international arms control agreement when he said, " This could be the start of a global movement that would spur the development of an instrument to ban firearms worldwide similar to our land-mines initiative." Breitkreuz asks, " If they are so proud of their plans to ban firearms worldwide, why go to all the trouble of keeping it a secret from the Canadian people ? With the passage of C68, the Liberal Government gave themselves the absolute power to ban all guns in Canada. Now it seems they want the United Nations to have this same type of power over the rest of the world, " concluded Breitkreuz. [ Our many thanks to Dennis Young who continues to belt out this kind of material on a regular basis. ] [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 98 04:36:43 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: In the Wilderness: 29 Nov 98 (fwd) On Nov 29, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] IN THE WILDERNESS (c) 1998 KEVIN McGEHEE North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ CHEAP AT TWICE THE PRICE Family togetherness during holidays is, I suspect, a phenomenon of the modern world. It's hard to imagine the ancient Romans celebrating their winter-solstice festival of the Persian war-god Mithras at home, gathering around the idol and singing Mithras carols while little Julius, Jr. looks just *too* cute for words in his brand new jammies. Nor were the high holy days of the early Christian church likely much of a family event. Hanging with the homefolks was what people back then did every day, and when they needed an excuse for a reunion of the extended family, usually some elder obligingly kicked off, or one of the newly married-off daughters had a newborn that needed baptizing. Our use of holidays has evolved with our civilization. Family life is at a premium now, so the holidays give us the opportunity for some intensive "quality time." This is usually invested through mass excursions to the local mall, whereupon money is doled out to the various family members and they are admonished, "Remember, we all meet again back here by nine o'clock!" Then each scurries in a different direction to buy gifts for one another. In a thousand years, archeologists piecing together these vignettes of family life in the twilight of the 20th Century will either be utterly baffled, or nod sagely to one another and say, "This explains *everything!*" It used to be that when someone stood up to say, "Let's not forget what these holidays are about," there was some novelty to the idea that we needed to be reminded. It was a jolt that actually made us stop and think on ... what these holidays are about. Today it's just one more in a long list of holiday cliches that we're all supposed to appreciate with a kind of sardonic chuckle. Well *of course* we have to remember what these holidays are about, it's part of the tradition! Just like Dad slipping off the ladder while he's stringing the Christmas lights on the front of the house, or Aunt Mildred overindulging in the egg nog and getting sloppy under the mistletoe with everyone who passes within reach. Animated TV reindeer with incandescent noses, Jimmy Stewart contemplating suicide, and a solemn moment during a rerun of "A Charlie Brown Christmas" while Linus recites the second chapter of the Gospel according to St. Luke. It's all of a piece. Even when the Peanuts characters decry "commercialism," it's between commercials -- touting this or that "perfect holiday gift" -- that (ahem) are paying for the cartoon characters' anti-commercialism sermon. The ending of that Peanuts special was so effective that not only is something like it indispensable to every holiday TV special created since then, but it invaded non-holiday culture as well (part of the novelty of "Seinfeld" was that it NEVER resorted to such an ending), and even the presidency of Bill Clinton seems headed for such a "warm and fuzzy" denouement despite everything. All together now: "AWWWWWWWWWW!!!" Just a few days ago, America sat down to Thanksgiving dinner, which has become sort of a pre-game show for the Christmas get-together. And as with Christmas, our cultural guardians (the same ones who insisted that "Ellen" was a television event of high cultural significance, but I digress) remind us what it's really all about: that Thanksgiving "is about giving thanks." They don't say to whom, but they consider themselves so integral these days to the proper functioning of our civilization that perhaps they fear a possible violation of the separation of church and state. They don't go so far (yet) as to suggest that we're supposed to give thanks, as the Pilgrims are now supposed to have done, to the Indians who are supposed to have kept them from starving en masse during that first horrible winter. Well, of course most of us know that Thanksgiving is about giving thanks to God -- but there's more to it even than that. Those of us who attend church at least more often than twice a year get opportunities to give thanks to God more often than once a year. Thanksgiving isn't about giving just any old thanks. It's not just about counting your blessings and saying, "Hey, God, you done right by me after all! Good show!" The Pilgrims had been through an ordeal the likes of which only the rarest and most unfortunate 20th-Century American has ever endured. Most of them died during that first winter, not just because of foul weather and disease but because of a disastrous experiment in collectivism, *the abandonment of which* helped ensure, more than any help from the Indians, the bounty they celebrated the following autumn. What they had survived could easily be regarded as a morality play of straying, privation, repentance and reward, and so they did. Under the circumstances, they were right to do so. The thanks they gave at their harvest feast was a big one, for a gift that they had firsthand reason to appreciate more than ever. More than just about anyone alive today can do. Economically and culturally, our holidays have become cheap -- and each year the morals of our civilization become cheaper. Our president has actually set the price of redemption for one of the most fundamental forms of human betrayal, as a few crocodile tears shed in public and a few throwaway comments about private pain, supposedly to make up for all that "private" pleasure. Not that such pleasures have really been private these last few years; even broadcast primetime television has become as explicit as it can be without earning the "hardcore" label. All the more hypocritical then, when the Four Horsemen -- Peter, Dan, Tom and Bernie -- deplored the "salacious detail" included with Kenneth Starr's Lewinsky referral. Funny thing about cheapness. It always comes with all those hidden, unexpected, unwanted costs, the ones that don't hit until much, MUCH later. - -30- November 29, 1998 ================================================================ **Visit the IN THE WILDERNESS archives** http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/advance.htm The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #201 *************************