From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #228 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, April 13 1999 Volume 02 : Number 228 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 15:26:33 EDT From: CCCS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU Subject: Re: Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:22:33 +500 From: "Chuck S" Subject: WT Editorial - That every man be armed A followup to this week's story about the federal judge who ruled that the Second Amendment supports the individual. From today's (4/9/99) Washington Times web site: http://www.washtimes.com/opinion/op1.html That every man be armed By Kenneth Smith It wasn't long after the Boston Tea Party that the British decided they better disarm those uppity American colonists to keep them from spilling blood rather than tea leaves. Parliament banned exports of muskets and ammunition to the colonies and sent British soldiers, led by General Gage, to seize their weapons and ammunition. The colonists rudely resisted this early brand of gun control and, at Lexington and Concord, used those weapons to express their displeasure. This history lesson comes courtesy of a federal district judge in Lubbock, Texas, who this month cited these and other events in this country's past to arrive at the remarkable conclusion that the Second Amendment appears to mean what it says: that the Constitution gives individual Americans the right to keep and bear arms. Sorting through American jurisprudence and burgeoning Second Amendment literature in law journals, Judge Sam Cummings held that while the right is not absolute, it nonetheless exists and cannot be wished away, no matter how embarrassing it is to modern sensibilities. Historical examination of the amendment, supported by analysis of its text, Mr. Cummings wrote, ''bears proof that that right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right.'' Mr. Cummings came to his conclusion after hearing the case of a Texas man named Timothy Joe Emerson involved in a divorce with his wife Sacha. She had obtained a temporary restraining order --which Mr. Cummings describes as essentially a form order frequently used in Texas divorce proceedings -- enjoining him from conducting certain kinds of financial transactions or from threatening or actually attacking her during the proceedings. In what President Clinton and his supporters have forever dismissed as a he-said, she-said standoff, Mrs. Emerson claimed that during a phone conversation her husband threatened to kill a man with whom she was alleged to be having an affair. There was no evidence presented to support the claim, and the court made no findings. But the court issued the restraining order, and Mr. Emerson was later indicted for possession of a firearm while under a restraining order, a federal offense. Mr. Emerson filed suit charging that the law violated, among other things, his Second Amendment rights. Government lawyers sought to dismiss the case on grounds that it is "well settled," that the amendment protects a state's rights to bear arms in, for example, National Guard units and not the rights of individual citizens to bear arms. Almost from the beginning of his more than 30-page opinion, Mr. Cummings was skeptical of the government's case. If the Founding Fathers had meant to protect a state's rights, he said, the amendment should have read not: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"; but instead: "the right of the States shall not be infringed." The plain language of the amendment, he wrote, shows the subordinate clause was meant not to qualify the right, but to show why the right must be protected. Besides the Supreme Court ruled a few years ago that the people cited in the Second Amendment are the same people --not states -- cited in the other amendment that make up the Bill of Rights. This reading of the amendment is consistent with the historical record, Mr. Cummings said. As early as 690 A.D. Englishmen were required to possess arms and to serve in the military, and the English Bill of Rights codified the individual right to bear arms in 1689. This tradition informed the colonists own views. Mr. Cummings took note of a 1640 Virginia statute that required all "masters of families to furnish themselves and all those of their families which shall be capable of arms . . . with arms both offensive and defensive." Without that right, wrote Mr. Cummings, the colonists never could have won the Revolutionary War. When they drew up the U.S. Constitution, they wanted that right in there to protect them from political corruption and governmental tyranny. James Monroe proposed the right to keep and bear arms be treated as a basic human right and included in the Constitution. Writing in Federalist No. 46, James Madison mocked European despotisms he described as "afraid to trust the people with arms." Said Patrick Henry, "The great object is that every man be armed . . . [e]veryone who is able may have a gun." Samuel Adams argued that the Constitution "be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." When it came time to take up the Bill of Rights, the Senate turned down a motion to add the phrase "for the common defense" after the words "to keep and bear arms." In his Commentaries on the Constitution, Joseph Story wrote, "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." Is it possible that, whatever the views of the Framers, enforcement of the Second Amendment would be imprudent because the social costs of doing so would be too high? There is, after all, plenty of murder and mayhem in this society without allowing everyone to arm himself. But there are social costs to other amendments protecting the likes of free speech (racial vitriol) and the rights of criminal defendants (allowing criminals to go free). The same people now posing a cost-benefit of analysis of the Second Amendment, said Mr. Cummings, wouldn't dream of applying it to the rest of the Bill of Rights. He quotes approvingly the remarks of Justice Antonin Scalia that while Americans may now tolerate the elimination of the right to bear arms, no one should pretend that it is not a reduction of rights. The right to bear arms is not unequivocal. Felons don't enjoy it because criminal conduct has put them outside the class of law-abiding citizens who enjoy full civil rights. But the statute under which Mr. Emerson was indicted means that someone can lose his Second Amendment rights not because he has committed some wrong in the past, said Mr. Cummings, but merely because he is involved in a divorce proceeding. "It is absurd," he said, "that a boilerplate state court divorce can collaterally and automatically extinguish a law-abiding citizen's Second Amendment rights." The Supreme Court has not had much to say about Second Amendment rights in recent years. So this case may be the test for which advocates on both sides of the issue have been looking. Gun-control supporters are confident higher courts will side with them. If they do, according to Mr. Cummings, they will have to overturn centuries of English and American jurisprudence, to say nothing of Monroe, Henry and Madison. Kenneth Smith is deputy editor for The Washington Times editorial page. ================================================== We were promised "the most ethical administration in history." What we got instead was the most obscene, the most corrupt, and, most likely, the least competent. A group of charlatans, felons, traitors, and whores to be sure. But that's ok, they all polled well - Treb U. Shay ================================================== - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 99 17:03:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die Rag (fwd) On Apr 9, Mike Riddle wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] BALKANS RAG FLOODLIGHT FINDINGS FROM FEENEY by Bill Feeney (bfeeney@NOTfloodlight-findings.com - delete the NOT to send email) April 9, 1999 I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die Rag (Balkans Rag) (Modified from original Vietnam Rag with apologies and under parody fair use from original version that had words and music by Joe McDonald) Come on all of you big strong men, Bill Clinton needs your help again. He's got himself in a terrible fix Over in the Balkan conflicts So put down your books and pick up a gun, We're gonna have a whole lotta fun. Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on liberals, send 'em fast; Your big chance has come at last. Gotta send our military to be bled The good war has a draft dodger at its head You know that peace can only be won When U.S. is under UN thumb Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come journalists, don't move slow, Why man, this is war au-go-go. There's plenty good ratings to be made Showing our military in Balkans' war betrayed Clinton sends our troops after meat axe cuts As he's on the greens hitting putts. Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on liberals from the land, Send troops to Balkans jam Come on media, don't you wait Help send ground troops before it's too late. Just televise all bloody Serb acts Don't show the KLA bloody hacks Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on Clinton cut troop strength more Then send 'em to another war Keep your Chinese bucks out of the news Stolen nuke and missile secrets can't give Bill the blues Not when his press friends for him play whore Can't let voters get mad at Gore Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] - ------------------- Author has no objection to non-profit distribution and use of the above with this notice included. Above article copyright (c) 1999 Bill Feeney (bfeeney@NOTfloodlight-findings.com - delete the NOT to send email) http://www.floodlight-findings.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 01:27:27 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: Invasive Patient Database Pushed by HCFA (fwd) On Apr 12, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Dallas wrote: > This From: Eagle Forum, April 7, 1999 > http://www.eagleforum.org > > Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records > http://www.eagleforum.org/column/1999/apr99/99-04-07.html > > By > Phyllis Schlafly > > While the American people were trying to kill the FDIC Know Your Customer > plan to monitor our financial records, the Clintonites have been moving > steadily and craftily to grab access to our health records. Just as local > bankers were to have been coopted to spy on our bank accounts, the > Administration is using two groups, home health providers and senior > citizens, to spy on our medical records and forward all sorts of personal > data to government databases. > > The pretext for these overreaching regulations is to uncover "fraud and > abuse." But the methodology is to monitor all law-abiding citizens under > the > supposition that any of us might be doing something criminal. > > The new regulation to force 9,000 home health care agencies to collect > and > report sensitive information about all their patients was issued by the > powerful federal agency called HCFA (Health Care Financing > Administration). > OASIS (Outcome and Assessment Information Set) is the cutesy name for > this > latest venture into Big Brotherism. > > Under OASIS, home health providers must interrogate ALL their patients, > not > merely those whose bills are being paid by the government through > Medicare > or Medicaid, exempting only children under age 18 and pre- and post-natal > mothers. The government is thus reaching out to grab the medical records > of > patients whose medical bills are paid by private sources, i.e., not paid > by > the government. > > The 12-page fine-print form that home health care providers must fill out > on > each patient is extraordinarily detailed, offensively privacy-invading to > the patient, and obviously exhausting and time-consuming for the employee > conducting the interrogation. Curiously, this mandatory government form > carries a copyright notice on every page, probably to prevent > commentators > like me from making copies and alerting the public to this new evidence > of > the Clintonites' efforts to collect information that is none of the > government's business. > > The questionnaire isn't just about medical history, treatment and > medications. Questions must be answered on race, ethnicity, family, > whether > you own or rent your residence, whom you live with, your finances, and > your > psychological attitude and behavior, of course, all tied into your Social > Security number. > > There's much more. The questionnaire demands information on your mental > state, your depression, your tobacco and alcohol use, your obesity, your > bathing and eating practices, and your lack of motivation, unrealistic > expectations, indecisiveness, suicide attempts, and life expectancy. The > form asks if you make grammar mistakes, or use "excessive profanity" or > "sexual references," and it has 53 boxes to be filled out on toilet and > "elimination" performance. > > The home health care interrogator is instructed how to win the patient's > trust before asking these nosy questions. If the patient refuses to > answer > any questions, the home health care employee is told to insert his own > "observations." > > There is no provision for voluntary informed consent on the part of the > patient, or that he be told that his responses will be logged onto > government databases. Home health providers must obey HCFA directives > under > penalty of not getting paid for their Medicare patients. > > These forms must be filled out every time a home health care provider > enrolls a new patient, and then revised every 60 days. Data are sent > electronically to computers at state agencies and then to HCFA's > database. > > It was the 1996 Kennedy- Kassebaum Act (which Bob Dole bragged about > passing) that legislated the framework for a federal system of collecting > and sharing medical records identified by a unique number for each > patient. > The OASIS regulation is another step to implement one of the original > goals > of Clinton's 1994 nationalized health plan: global budgeting, i.e. > government management of all private, as well as public, health-care > spending. > > When grassroots Americans found out about the Know Your Customer > Regulation, > they flooded the FDIC with 300,000 negative comments over a three-month > comment period. But the comment period for the OASIS regulation expired > March 26, and major newspapers didn't report it until 15 days before the > deadline. > > The Clinton Administration's other campaign to gather medical records is > a > plan to recruit all senior citizens to spy on their own physicians with > the > goal of accusing them of fraud. Attorney General Janet Reno has made a > public-private partnership with AARP to offer senior citizens the chance > to > collect a reward of up to $1000 if they file a report that leads to a > monetary "recovery" from their doctor. > > If a senior suspects that his doctor has billed Medicare too much for a > service rendered, the senior is supposed to call the toll-free "Fraud > Hotline'' and report the doctor as a possible thief and crook. > > The harassment potential is enormous when 39 million seniors start trying > to > collect a bonus if the doctor's office enters the wrong payment code > number > on a Medicare form. It is probable that most seniors believe that > everything > they buy is overpriced because they grew up at a time when prices were so > much lower. > > What a malicious scheme to harass doctors and destroy any confidential > relationship between doctors and patients! > > Copyright 1999 Eagle Forum. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 99 13:33:02 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 11, 1999 Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you to click in and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking us into a war in Kosovo. Congress has been on vacation and returns to Washington on Tuesday, April 13. What will these Congressmen say now? Our Petition demands that Congress act immediately to stop Clinton's unconstitutional attack on a sovereign country that has never threatened us. Clinton's bombing is an aggressive act of war against a country that is no threat to us. His bombing has caused enormous misery, and failed to accomplish any military or humanitarian objectives. It is killing people and destroying property that U.S. taxpayers will soon be called on to rebuild. You are urged to sign Eagle Forum's Petition to show Members of Congress that the polls and the media are wrong, and that we completely oppose getting involved in a war in Yugoslavia. Clinton should what President Reagan did in 1983 when 241 American Marines and sailors were killed in Lebanon: cut our losses and get out because it is the wrong place to fight a war. Eagle Forum's website also makes it easy to send an e-mail directly to your Members of Congress. Further information about Kosovo is available on Eagle Forum's website. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Eagle Forum * P.O. Box 618 * Alton, IL 62002 Office: 618-462-5415 * Fax: 618-462-8909 E-mail: eagle@eagleforum.org Web Site: http://www.eagleforum.org <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:42:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > Congress has been on vacation and returns to Washington on > Tuesday, April 13. What will these Congressmen say now? Our > Petition demands that Congress act immediately to stop Clinton's > unconstitutional attack on a sovereign country that has never > threatened us. > > Clinton's bombing is an aggressive act of war against a country that > is no threat to us. His bombing has caused enormous misery, and > failed to accomplish any military or humanitarian objectives. It is > killing people and destroying property that U.S. taxpayers will soon > be called on to rebuild. > I'd urge anyone to think twice before signing this petition. We're looking at a nasty little war against a totalitarian regieme that is intent upon displacing 100's of thousands of people based upon their race. That government is the remnant of a Communist police state. You just have to look at their friends to know that we are on the right side on this - Red China, Russia. Their means are horrific: taking familys out of their homes, shooting those who don't cooperate, shooting any male over the age of 12 who might be an oponent. All because the Albanian Kosovars want to form a limited-autonomy republic. You can make an argument that this whole situtation was way too messy to *start* intervening. Stopping intervening now is just plain morally wrong. We could be on the verge of a capitulation, or we could be in for months of this, if we stop now NATO is sunk, the Albanian Kosovars are screwed, U.S. credibility is down the toilet, and a totalitarian thug wins using despicable methods. Don't do it. jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:32:58 -0700 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) At 01:33 PM 4/12/1999 PST, you wrote: >On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > April 11, 1999 > > Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle > Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you to click in > and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and > 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking > us into a war in Kosovo. Let's be really careful here; while we may not like going into Kosovo now, it's going to have to be done sometime. Milosevic is a tiny Hitler-wannabe, and he'll continue to make trouble until he dies. (I've been saying this since Serbia attacked Slovenia in 1991; I now know how Cassandra felt!) Now we can see the end result; genocide. Oh, to be sure, it's on a minor scale - he doesn't have the resources to approach Hitler in scale - but it is genocide nevertheless. Of course, the mere fact that Bill Clinton is in favor of this war makes me suspicious of my OWN motives for supporting it, but I continue to believe that military action IS warranted in stopping the Serbs from performing "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. How, you ask, is this different from Rwanda or Tiananmen Square, or Myanmar, or Chile or Iraq or Iran or Turkey? It isn't. But we didn't do anything about those, and now the next tyrant feels emboldened. Stomp Milosevic, and perhaps the next one will be a bit intimidated. And if future tyrants have to figure the odds that America will crush them, perhaps they'll be deterred. And like the story about the starfish on the beach, we may not be able to save very many - but we can do THIS. I won't be signing Phyllis' petition. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:39:01 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts convices me they know much about the future in detail. Foreign policies of other countries are the big unknown -- how will they react to our actions? Nobody predicts our domestic policies very well, and so I don't think anyone can predict the outcome of any action we take. If you can't predict, you should not prescribe. This is part of the benefits of limited government. It prevents us from doing the same damn stupid things that govs have been doing for hundres of years, for all of the same flawed reasons. We make enemies whenever we do anything in foreign affairs, and our internal security gets more power and $ every time we have another terrorist incident. Ultimately, all of our do-goodism in foreign affairs (as well as domestic) will cost us our freedom. So, I conclude, governments should not have foreign policies. Individuals, I believe, can have foreign policies if they want them. Go fix Koxovo yourself -- Lincoln Brigades are a great idea, for individuals. What kind of freedom do you support that you propose to send my son off to support your ideals? Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kenneth Mitchell > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:33 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > At 01:33 PM 4/12/1999 PST, you wrote: > >On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > > > EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > April 11, 1999 > > > > Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle > > Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you > to click in > > and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and > > 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking > > us into a war in Kosovo. > > Let's be really careful here; while we may not like going into Kosovo now, > it's going to have to be done sometime. Milosevic is a tiny > Hitler-wannabe, > and he'll continue to make trouble until he dies. (I've been saying this > since Serbia attacked Slovenia in 1991; I now know how Cassandra felt!) > > Now we can see the end result; genocide. Oh, to be sure, it's on a minor > scale - he doesn't have the resources to approach Hitler in scale - but it > is genocide nevertheless. > > Of course, the mere fact that Bill Clinton is in favor of this > war makes me > suspicious of my OWN motives for supporting it, but I continue to believe > that military action IS warranted in stopping the Serbs from performing > "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. > > How, you ask, is this different from Rwanda or Tiananmen Square, or > Myanmar, or Chile or Iraq or Iran or Turkey? It isn't. But we didn't do > anything about those, and now the next tyrant feels emboldened. Stomp > Milosevic, and perhaps the next one will be a bit intimidated. And if > future tyrants have to figure the odds that America will crush them, > perhaps they'll be deterred. > > And like the story about the starfish on the beach, we may not be able to > save very many - but we can do THIS. > > I won't be signing Phyllis' petition. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- > ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The > number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, > for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out > 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds > with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now > threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down > this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to > tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:59:59 -0700 From: "Harry Barnett" Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) - -----Original Message----- From: Lew Glendenning To: roc@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 9:38 PM Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > >I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. > >Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts convices me they >know much about the future in detail. Concur. Nothing I have seen convinces me they know much about the present or the past, either, whether you limit it to "in detail" or in "in general". To predict the future with any likelihood of success, you need to know where you are. It also helps a great deal to know where you have been already. Unless John and Ken have access to information sources that I do not, I have heard and read the same stuff they have. Nothing I have heard them say, or that the ordinary Media that the ordinary public has access to have said, achieves the status of "fact". "Propaganda", yes. "Fact", no. Just because it is heartfelt does not take it out of the category of propaganda. Just because the Media says that babies are being taken out of incubators so the incubators can be sent to Baghdad makes doesn't make it so. Just because the Media says that the Patriot is achieving an 80% kill ratio doesn't make it so. Just because the Media says racial genocide is occurring doesn't make it so. Just because "It's for the Children" doesn't make it so. We are all bombarded with propaganda from various flavors of the Media every day, day-in and day-out, much of it contradictory, some even self-contradictory. This stuff is no different. In fact, a lot of it is so transparently propaganda that even Junior High School kids are raising an eyebrow of disbelief when they see the stuff. Nothing the Media says can be considered fact. And America's right to take the moral high ground in anything is a ludicrous joke as long as Americans suffer BJ and his host of pimps, panderers, prostitutes, and procurers to remain in power. All we can do is say "our dirty little thug can beat up your dirty little thug". Maybe this adventure will take us somewhere a third of the American population doesn't deserve to go. But then maybe it will take us somewhere two-thirds of the population DO deserve to go. On the bright side, it is good practice for the troops. And because of the practice, they are probably going to need it. But it is merely a "falling out among thieves" at the political level, not a Grand and Glorious cause. But on the not so bright side, some of the skills troops learn may be brought home, and become up close and personal when the Bomb 'em Billie crowd repeals the Posse Comitatus Act and decides to "stop terrorism at home". Can't happen here? Heh. There is Federal legislation proposed to do just that. For that matter, what difference does it make if a few people sign a petition? It will be blithely ignored by BJ and his Host of Whores anyway. Harry E. Barnett harryb@hbbse.com http://www.hbbse.com - -- It isn't what we don't know that hurts us. It's what we know that isn't o. --Will Rogers - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 99 04:12:05 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FAXALERT: Environmentalists Try to List Prairie Dog as "Threatened" (fwd) Prairie Dogs, one of the most prolific varmints in the Country, on the endangered list? I'm beginning to think it's time to start putting a out a Bounty on Environmentalists.....:-/ On Apr 12, NRA Alerts wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] NRA-ILA FAX ALERT 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030 Phone: (800) 392-8683 * Fax: (703) 267-3918 * GROOTS@NRA.org Vol. 6, No. 13 4/9/99 ENVIRONMENTALISTS PETITION GOVERNMENT TO LIST PRAIRIE DOG AS "THREATENED" The National Wildlife Federation (NWF) filed a petition with the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USF&WS) to list the black-tailed prairie dog as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. The petition listed unregulated recreational shooting as contributing to the decline of the species, along with poisoning, conversion of grasslands to farmland, urban development, and disease. USF&WS declined the petitioner's request to suspend normal rulemaking procedures and issue emergency regulations. However, the Service found that the petition contained enough information to suggest that listing may be warranted, which means that USF&WS, by notice in the March 25 Federal Register, is taking the next step of conducting a status review to determine if listing the animal is warranted. The public comment period is open until May 24. Data, personal observations, technical critiques, comments, or questions should be sent to the Field Supervisor, Ecological Services, US Fish and Wildlife Service, 420 South Garfield Avenue, Suite 400, Pierre, SD 57501-5408. A LOOK AT THE STATES ARIZONA: HB 2275, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, is scheduled to be considered by the Senate next week. Another reckless lawsuit preemption bill, SB 1150, is currently stalled in the Hse. Approps. Cmte. Contact your lawmakers at (800) 352-8404 in support of these bills. CALIFORNIA: On Tuesday, April 13, the Assy. Public Safety Cmte. will consider AB 1040, which seeks to change the Right To Carry statutes to increase the likelihood that qualified individuals would be issued a permit, and AB 491, which seeks to increase the penalty for the first offense of carrying a concealed firearm from a misdemeanor to a "wobbler" -- allowing for prosecutorial discretion in charging a person with a misdemeanor or a felony. Contact members of these committees in support of AB 1040 and against AB 491. For committee members' names and telephone numbers contact ILA Grassroots. COLORADO: SB 84, the NRA-backed Right To Carry bill sponsored by Sen. Ken Chlouber (R-4), passed the Sen. Approps. Cmte. and awaits consideration by the full Senate. Contact your Sen. at (303) 866-2316 in support of SB 84. Also, SB 205, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, will be voted on by the House next week. Contact your Rep. at (303) 866-2904 in support SB 205. Finally, HB 1305, a bill to establish uniform firearms laws throughout Colo., has been reworked in a conference committee, and awaits final approval by both chambers. Contact your lawmakers at (888) 473-8136 and urge them to give final approval to these bills, and call Gov. Owens (R) at (303) 866-2471 & urge him to sign HB 1305. CONNECTICUT: HB 6718 [the Lawlor (R-99)-Jepson (R-27) anti-gun package], which, among other things, seeks to require training for any store clerk who sells firearms, is currently being considered by a joint legislative committee. Contact your Rep. at (860) 240-0100 and urge him to vote NO on HB 6718. FLORIDA: SB 954, the NRA-backed reciprocity bill, passed the House earlier this week, and HB 67, the NRA-backed range protection bill, was overwhelmingly passed in the Senate. Both bills await Gov. Jeb Bush's (R) expected approval. LOUISIANA: Yesterday, HB 1639, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the House. It now heads to the Senate where consideration is expected next week. Contact your Sen. at (504) 342-2040 in support of HB 1639. NEW YORK: On Saturday, April 17, Capital District SCOPE and several other Second Amendment organizations are hosting the Second Amendment Civil Rights Rally in Albany. The rally will run from 11:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., on the Capitol steps. For more information, contact sacres@juno.com., or call Tom Chandler at (518) 861-7058, or Bill Hart at (518) 489-3032. MINNESOTA: HF 619, the NRA-backed range protection bill, passed the House and awaits Senate consideration. Contact your Sen. at (651) 296-0504 in support of HF 619. MISSOURI: On Monday, April 12, an amendment requiring trigger locks on all firearms will be offered to HB 283, an omnibus crime bill. Contact your Rep. at (573) 751-3659 in opposition to this amendment. NEVADA: AB 543, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the Assy. Jud. Cmte., and awaits the full Assembly's consideration. Also, SB 420, the NRA-backed reciprocity bill, is up for consideration in the Sen. Jud. Cmte. Contact your Assemblyman at (775) 687- 5739 in support of AB 543, and your Sen. at (775) 687-5742 in support of SB 420. OKLAHOMA: SB 562, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the House, and heads to Gov. Frank Keating (R) for consideration. Contact Gov. Keating at (405) 521-2342 and urge him to sign SB 562. TEXAS: SB 717, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed in the Senate and is awaiting consideration in the Hse. Civil Practices Cmte. Also, HB 2399, the NRA-backed shooting range protection bill, is pending in the same committee. Contact committee members in support of these bills. Visit www.nraila.org or call ILA Grassroots for a list of committee members. Additionally, on Tuesday, April 13, the Hse. Public Safety Cmte. will hold hearings on HB 1199, which bans firearms sales between private, non-licensed individuals at gun shows, and HB 2169, which imposes irrational construction and operation standards on shooting ranges. The hearings will be held at 8 a.m. in Room E1.026 of the Capitol Extension in Austin. =+=+=+=+ This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action -- www.NRAILA.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #228 *************************