From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #243 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, May 27 1999 Volume 02 : Number 243 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 May 99 23:27:15 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: TRIVIA: who is our highest paid civil servant? (fwd) On May 23, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] It used to be that all tax bills had to originate in the House of Representatives. That was when the Constitution was in effect. It has been declared irrelevant (eg gun control, the impeachment farce) and we are at the mercy of thousands of fedl agencies who need to tax us to promote their individual agendas. Is there any way we can make these bureaucrats run for office before they tax us? Rich Martin Editor of Slick On Thursday, May 27, the Federal Communications Commission is set to approve a doubling of the Gore Tax. One day before the FCC will double the Gore Tax, the Senate Commerce Committee is scheduled to hold an oversight hearing. It is urgent that taxpayers across the country contact the Senators on the Commerce Committee and urge them to force the FCC to account for the fact that the FCC and Gore have wasted countless taxpayer-dollars by paying Gore's old political crony, Ira Fishman, $250,000 a year to run the program (more than any other federal employee - including Bill Clinton), and just 4 percent of the $2 billion that schools requested so far has gone to pay for actual Internet access - the rest went for bureaucratic overhead, and ripping up walls, repairing carpets and other extra costs. The FCC should also be called to account for whether the program is even necessary due to the fact that over 70 percent of schools are already on the Net. And most importantly, the FCC must be called to account for the fact that they are directly violating Article 1, Section 8 of Constitution, which says only "Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes." Below you will find the names and telephone numbers of the members of the Senate Commerce Committee. Republicans: John McCain, 202-224-2235 Ted Stevens, 202-224-3004 Conrad Burns, 202-224-2644 Slade Gorton, 202-224-3441 Trent Lott, 202-224-3135 Kay Bailey Hutchison, 202-224-5922 Olympia Snowe, 202-224-5344 John Ashcroft, 202-224-6154 Bill Frist, 202-224-3344 Spencer Abraham, 202-224-4822 Sam Brownback, 202-224-6521 Democrats: Ernest Hollings, 202-224-6121 Daniel Inouye, 202-224-3934 John Rockefeller, 202-224-6472 John Kerry, 202-224-2742 John Breaux, 202-224-4623 Richard Bryan, 202-224-6244 Byron Dorgan, 202-224-2551 Ron Wyden, 202-224-5244 Max Cleland, 202-224-3521 Click here ---> The Algore Tax v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ THE MICHAEL NEW ACTION FUND P.O. Box 100 Iredell, Texas 76649 MICHAEL NEW Home Page v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ MEMORIAL DAY Memorial Day is coming. Show your love of liberty by flying the 13 star Betsy Ross flag. 3 ft X 5ft polyester with metal gromets. $14.95 + $2.50 S&H. Wholesale prices available to dealers. E-mail for dealer information, or send order to: P. Long, Dept. S, PO Box 23963, Tucson, AZ 85734 russ45@primenet.com And don't forget, June 14 is Flag day. It flies upsidedown as well as rightside up. RichSlick If you have your own web site, you know it's not enough to be on the internet with 30,000,000 geeks. Oh, search engines are great---for the other guy, but wouldn't you prefer to be a little more direct? Instead of trying to reach millions of people who can't spell your name, here's your chance to target thousands of politically active people like yourself. Send e-mail for details to RichSlick. THE TRUTH IS... A. Powerful. C. In the eye of the beholder. B. Irrelevant. D. All of the above. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 16:51:10 +0100 From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Please Vote. Libertarian In response to people bailing on major political orgs and talking about not voting I explained why I thought voting was important. Since I explained -why-, and gave my credibility on it maybe you could explain why leaving blanks is worse then not voting? -Boyd (who hasnt ever suggested not voting LP) Kenneth Mitchell wrote: > > At 02:13 PM 5/21/1999 +0100, you wrote: > >A close friend of mine used to do some database work for a large > >Republican "think tank" in Washington state. I certainly understand the > >desire to simply avoid the polls but I hope those of you not voting for > >principled reasons will reconsider that plan. ... > >All of us can find one small non > >partisan office to throw a vote away on. Doing that and leaving the > >other choices blank will have far more effect on political planning then > >joining the majority who simply stay home. All IMO. Boyd > > Bad suggestion. Nobody will even notice if you leave choices blank. > > Want to make a difference? Vote LIBERTARIAN. Only the Libertarian party is absolutely dedicated to the Second Amendment. > > Don't like the Libertarian position on other topics? Don't worry; we Libs hardly ever actually _win_ elections. So you can vote for us even if you disagree with us. Just don't vote for the "lesser of two evils" between a Remocrat and a Depublican. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain > unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the > pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments > are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the > consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government > becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People > to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, > laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers > in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their > Safety and Happiness. " > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out http://www.jewishworldreview.com for your favorite > conservative columnists! > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the > Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:21:08 -0700 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Please Vote. Libertarian At 04:51 PM 5/23/1999 +0100, you wrote: >In response to people bailing on major political orgs and talking about >not voting I explained why I thought voting was important. Since I >explained -why-, and gave my credibility on it maybe you could explain >why leaving blanks is worse then not voting? It's not _worse_; it's just no _better_. The thing is, nobody will notice! The ballots are machine-tabulated, and I'd be REALLY surprised if anybody bothers to compare the vote totals for one race to another. And if they did, what message would they get? If a protest marcher is carrying a BLANK sign, what's he saying? I suggest that what the viewer reads into that sign, or that blank on the ballot, will reflect what HE believes, rather than what the PROTESTER/VOTER believes. It would be an interesting psychological experiment, perhaps. Now, if there was a "None of the Above" option..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. " - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out http://www.jewishworldreview.com for your favorite conservative columnists! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 21:58:42 +0100 From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Please Vote. Libertarian Well, saying it was a bad idea seemed worse then "no difference" to me when I read it. In my original I was trying to imply that I had first hand knowledge that exactly "...anybody bothers to compare the vote totals for one race to another". Both parties buy election data at every cycle and among the first tests run (at least in my _friends_ experience in the GOP in Washington) are "who voted" and "wha'd they vote for" including races left blank. My original message was about people showing up. We've seen a couple messages lately from people who don't want to show up and don't want to "be on lists". I encourage people to "be on lists" at every turn and I think a lot of that target audience (wich I was surprised to see we have right here on ROC) are less willing to respond to the Libertarian message (wich I wholeheartedly endorse) then to the more basic "just show up" wich is more general and every bit as valid. The enemies of freedom have done very well indeed with incrementalism and I think it's valid to consider showing up to the polls for whatever reason works for you. If it's statistical and vague-ish like leaving most races blank then good on ya. If you can accept, like me, what some people in our freedom starved reality call the "Radical" Libertarian platform then more power to you! But both roads lead to the same result, a turning away from the demopublicans who got us here and are digging us in with the efficiency of a well oiled beuracracy. Boyd NRA JPFO GOA LP (among other fine lists) Kenneth Mitchell wrote: > > At 04:51 PM 5/23/1999 +0100, you wrote: > >In response to people bailing on major political orgs and talking about > >not voting I explained why I thought voting was important. Since I > >explained -why-, and gave my credibility on it maybe you could explain > >why leaving blanks is worse then not voting? > > It's not _worse_; it's just no _better_. The thing is, nobody will notice! The ballots are machine-tabulated, and I'd be REALLY surprised if anybody bothers to compare the vote totals for one race to another. And if they did, what message would they get? > > If a protest marcher is carrying a BLANK sign, what's he saying? I suggest that what the viewer reads into that sign, or that blank on the ballot, will reflect what HE believes, rather than what the PROTESTER/VOTER believes. It would be an interesting psychological experiment, perhaps. > > Now, if there was a "None of the Above" option..... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain > unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the > pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments > are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the > consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government > becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People > to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, > laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers > in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their > Safety and Happiness. " > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out http://www.jewishworldreview.com for your favorite > conservative columnists! > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the > Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:47:36 -0700 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Please Vote. Libertarian At 09:58 PM 5/23/1999 +0100, you wrote: >Well, saying it was a bad idea seemed worse then "no difference" to me >when I read it. In my original I was trying to imply that I had first >hand knowledge that exactly "...anybody bothers to compare the vote >totals for one race to another". Both parties buy election data at every >cycle and among the first tests run (at least in my _friends_ experience >in the GOP in Washington) are "who voted" and "wha'd they vote for" >including races left blank. Interesting; I was unaware that anybody paid attention to vote total discrepancies. I still think that the message sent by a blank on the ballot is open to misinterpretation. I remember some friends from the early '70's who decided to "screw with the minds" of some Illinois highway department people. Their grand idea? They'd drive HALFWAY OVER one of those vehicle counting strips, and then CARRY the back of their VW Beetle over the strip so that it would register 1/2 of a car. They weren't really happy when I pointed out that this would make them look like a 2-wheeled trailer to the car before them. >If you can >accept, like me, what some people in our freedom starved reality call >the "Radical" Libertarian platform then more power to you! But both >roads lead to the same result, a turning away from the demopublicans who >got us here and are digging us in with the efficiency of a well oiled >beuracracy. Boyd NRA JPFO GOA LP (among other fine lists) Well, I've never supported the idea of trying to hide from the government; I always figured that if the government was out to get me, I wanted to be fairly high-profile, since at least this way somebody would miss me! Ken (who belongs to EACH of those same fine lists, and who is < a subscriber to American Spectator as well! :-) ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. " - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out http://www.jewishworldreview.com for your favorite conservative columnists! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 99 22:38:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: EIA Communique - 5/24 (fwd) On May 24, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 24, 1999 11:14 AM Subject: EIA Communique - 5/24 The Education Intelligence Agency COMMUNIQU=C9 - May 24, 1999 Now on the Web at http://members.aol.com/educintel/eia + The AFT-affiliated Florida Education Association/United approved merge= r with the Florida Teaching Profession-NEA at a special meeting in Orlando = over the weekend. The vote was unanimous, which once again points out the structural differences between the two unions. The NEA Representative Assembly will take up the issue of state mergers this July, and will be asked to vote on the report of the NEA Advisory Committee on Unity. The committee was formed after last year's national merger vote and directed to survey the delegates in an effort to determine how future merger negotiations should proceed. The survey resul= ts have been closely guarded, but NEA President Bob Chase did say this durin= g his National Press Club speech in March: "It was very interesting at the Representative Assembly, one of the requests that was made was that we po= ll our members to see where they are on a whole host of questions, and one o= f the questions that was asked amounted to a 'do you or don't you favor merger?' and there were an overwhelming number of folks -- it was in the = 80 percent, 86 percent, I think -- who indicated to one degree or another th= at they did, and only 14.6 percent who said they opposed it in any way, shap= e or form." It's difficult to see why these numbers encourage Chase. Since merger opponents need only 33.4 percent of the delegate vote to defeat merger, t= hese numbers indicate that almost half of what they need is rock solid no matt= er what deal NEA and AFT negotiate. Throw in AFL-CIO affiliation and/or open ballots and/or increased centralization and you've got another loser. + "I wonder if the average teacher knows what happened and the significan= ce and impact of it," said Bob Boyd, general counsel and vice chairman of th= e Professional Educators Network of Florida, an alternative teachers association. He was speaking about the Florida merger vote but the same question can be asked of many union issues. And, if the members of the Alabama Education Association are any measure, member understanding of th= eir union should not be overestimated. AEA released the membership survey it conducted in December, and the results were startling, even for seasoned teacher union observers. Here i= s a sample: "How much do you participate in your local education association? Would y= ou say that you are:" Very active 13% Somewhat active 47% Not active 40% "Do you consider the Alabama Education Association to be part of organize= d labor and the labor movement?" Yes 42% No 46% Don't know 12% "Do you consider the National Education Association to be part of organiz= ed labor and the labor movement?" Yes 49% No 39% Don't know 12% "Which of the following would you say best describes the Alabama Educatio= n Association or AEA?" A labor union 2% A professional union 10% A professional association 13% A professional association that bargains for and represents its members 7= 5% Don't know 1% "Which of the following would you say best describes the National Educati= on Association or NEA?" A labor union 5% A professional union 14% A professional association 48% A professional association that bargains for and represents its members 2= 9% Don't know 4% If AEA members are representative of teacher union members elsewhere, in that they either don't know or don't believe that their union is part = of organized labor and the labor movement, it has significant implications f= or public education reform as well as for union merger. Additional questions provided other eye-opening answers: "If NEA merged with the American Federation of Teachers and required affiliation of AEA with the AFL-CIO, would you remain a member of AEA?" Yes 68% No 15% Don't know 18% "Currently, AEA and NEA are unified. To join one, you must be a member of both. If you were not required to join NEA to be a member of AEA, would y= ou choose to be a member of NEA?" Would join NEA 53% Would not join NEA 42% Don't know 5% It was the unified dues issue that turned the Missouri State Teachers Association from an NEA affiliate into an independent union in the 1970s. Judging by these two questions, one wonders if AEA is pondering a similar move should the national merger ever take place. + Charter school advocates will rally today in front of the California S= tate Capitol to protest a union-sponsored bill that would require all charter schools to abide by the collective bargaining agreements of the district = in which they are located. Both NEA and the California Teachers Association = have alternately praised and damned charter schools. Fortunately, there's a ne= w EIA report to straighten out the union position. Commissioned by the Alex= is de Tocqueville Institution, the study appears on its website at http://www.adti.net + The Illinois Education Association's delegate assembly approved a plan= to make the union's vice president and secretary-treasurer full-time employe= es. IEA will also add an organizer for higher education and a full-time webma= ster. + I highly recommend an extensive report in Sunday's Seattle Times by Jol= ayne Houtz on teacher dismissals in Washington state. It's fair and well-reaso= ned and can be accessed at http://www.seattletimes.com/news/education/html98/badd_19990523.html + Due to the Memorial Day holiday, next week's communiqu=E9 will appear = on Tuesday, June 1. + Quote of the Week #1: "Bush and the Legislature are no more interested= in fairness for education than President Milosevic is interested in fairness= for the Kosovar Albanians." -- Florida Teaching Profession-NEA President Maur= een Dinnen. + Quote of the Week #2: "This is one of the best things that can happen = to the teacher unions, to me as state party chairman and to the Democratic Party." -- Florida Democratic Party Chairman Charles Whitehead, expressin= g his glee over the merger votes of FTP-NEA and FEA/United. # # # The Education Intelligence Agency conducts public education research, analysis and investigations. Director: Mike Antonucci. Ph: 916-422-4373. = Fax: 916-392-1482. E-Mail: EducIntel@aol.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 99 11:12:36 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: rkba-list: Alan Gottlieb on CBS evening News Tonight! (fwd) On May 25, NRAMCKCWA@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] <> - <> - <> - <> - <> - <> Please forward <> - <> - <> - <> - <> - <> Friends, Alan Gottlieb of "Citizens for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms" and the "Second Amendment Foundation" will be on CBS Evening News with Dan Rather tonight. He will discuss pro-gun view of the Colorado shootings and the Senate's passage of S. 254. Maybe we should flood CBS with our "positive" reactions to the show. Cordially, Charles Long Political Action Director & Webmaster Council For Legislative Action, Washington claw@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/claw Political Action Director & Webmaster NRA Member Council of King County http://members.aol.com/NRAMCKCWA Member the Website Team for WE CARE, the PAC created to DEFEAT INITIATIVE 676 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 99 00:40:35 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: L.A. DA Jim Hahn: No Guns For Niggers & Spics . . . (fwd) Well, we allways knew gun control was racist to the core, but even for off the cuff, this is a bit much. _Especially_ for a Public Official..... On May 26, Nramancpe@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] My sources were able to get me an account of an off-the-cuff, off-the-record=20 session between Los Angeles City Attorney James K. Hahn and a few reporters.=20 Hahn was in an ebullient mood, having just announced that L.A. was going to=20 sue gun manufacturers. Here's how it went: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ =09Freely admitting that his office had failed miserably in dealing with=20 gun-wielding criminals, L.A. City Attorney James K. Hahn today announced tha= t=20 Los Angeles will sue gun makers for the actions of criminals.=20 =09=93We=92ve been outsmarted and just plain had our asses kicked by all=20 these spic and nigger gangs in the city,=94 said Hahn. =93I need to save fac= e=20 somehow, so I figured we could blame the gun manufacturers for gun crimes.= =94=20 Lack of Talent, Effort in D.A.=92s Office Cited=20 Hahn and Los Angeles joined a growing list of cities that conceded defeat in=20 enforcing existing gun laws. Hahn agreed with journalists present at the=20 press conference announcing the suit that his department, like so many other= s=20 big-city D.A. offices, was loaded with dead-weight, no-talent, inefficient=20 and unethical personnel who lacked the competence to prosecute gun crimes.=20 =93I won=92t deny that we=92re clearly sucking hind tit to all these wetback = and=20 spook gangbangers who keep getting away with murder, =93he said, =93but do y= ou=20 really expect us to put people in jail?=94 =93Jeez, that takes some effort a= nd=20 we=92re on the public payroll. You should know we can=92t be expected to do = a=20 decent job,=94 Hahn added.=20 Gun Makers at Fault The decision by the D.A.=92s office to join other cities, including San=20 Francisco,=20 represents a new focus in the gun control movement. Hahn claimed that gun=20 manufacturers =93need to be psychic.=94 =93If they were doing their jobs rig= ht,=20 they=92d be able to tell me the names and addresses of the criminals that=20 bought their guns,=94 Hahn whined. =93As it is, now me and my staff have to=20 shuffle all sorts of papers, and staple them together, and all that stuff.=20 It=92s almost like work!=94 Hahn also said that the suit against the gun ind= ustry=20 was =93more about changing the way they do business than about money.=94=20 Keeping Guns Away from Hispanics and Blacks Important=20 When asked to clarify that statement, Hahn answered,=94 Well, right now we=20 really can=92t ban guns, unfortunately. But we can start to make it harder f= or=20 all the goddamned spics and niggers to get hold of them.=94 Hahn didn=92t se= em at=20 all fazed when asked how such statements would sit with LAPD Chief Bernard=20 Parks, an African-American, and various Hispanic City Council members, Hahn=20 replied, =94Bernie=92s a good nigger, and a lot of those beaners also know I= =92m=20 just looking out for their best interests. These people are too stupid and=20 crime-prone to own guns. They=92ll thank me in the end.=94=20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 99 20:53:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: L.A. DA Jim Hahn: No Guns For Niggers & Spics . . . (fwd) The truth outs..... On May 26, Nramancpe@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Dear Dave - This is a parody. I wrote it. Sorry you took it to be true. I deliberately made it so outrageous that it would seem that it's obviously a parody. Actually, it comes from a one-page "mock" edition of the "Lost Angeles Timid" (spoofing the L.A. Times) which I composed and faxed off to some fellow activists - and Jim Hahn's office as well. Cordially, Craig Edwards [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 99 21:13:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: "IN YOUR LIFETIME" (fwd) On May 26, JASPAR@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ***** Please Cross-Post ***** IN YOUR LIFETIME Letter from Joel Friedman, President of the NRA Members Council of Pasadena-Foothills, CA. It has been posted here at his request. He can be e-mailed at Joel has defended the Second Amendment on numerous television news programs and radio talk shows. - ----- May 26, 1999 Dear Fellow RKBA Activist: Like most of you I have been watching and reading about the events over the last month. Like most of you I have been thinking about what it means. I have read some well-written articles and posts and have thought about them as they relate to pending legislation, the coming elections, and the next 20 years. While forming new political parties or starting boycotts and other ideas are important and might need to be done, I also have an idea I must put forth. I want to propose a concrete, hands-on project that I believe can make a major, long term impact in defending our rights. And we need to do it NOW. The event that brought this idea to fruition for me was Rosie O Donnell s attack on Tom Selleck like he was a monster for supporting the NRA. I am told O Donnell apologized. The apology means nothing. What does matter is that O Donnell actually lost control. She is a professional who could not manage her mouth and made herself look mentally deranged over the issue of firearms. If the gun issue is so emotionally intense that even so-called professionals can lose it, what about John and Jane Q. Public? Not so long ago, a dear friend of mine talked and wrote about winning the hearts and minds of those people not committed to our cause. He asked the single most important question of our time: "Who have you TALKED to and tried to convince that gun control is wrong?" My friend taught me that the gun rights movement is ultimately a war of words. There are two ways that words are used. They can be written (such as this post) or they can be spoken. Like it or not, the truth is that most of us are not SPEAKING enough. I don't mean speaking to each other. I mean going out into the general population, and going to different clubs and gatherings, like women's clubs, social clubs, business and civic groups, and many others. I know this is not a new idea. I know that many of you who are reading this post will think that it is a great idea--but that it is not for you. My response is, IT HAD BETTER BECOME YOU. Too much time already has passed. Our cause needs missionary people, and we need them NOW. Even if you think you can't do this, you had better take a moment and have a real heart to heart talk with the person in the mirror -- because if it is not YOU, then who? If it is not NOW ... WHEN? How bad does it have to get for you? You might consider getting together with others right away and have some practice sessions "out loud" where you can improve your verbal and arguing skills. Will you ever be perfect? NO! Will there be room for improvement? DEFINITELY! Would you like a professional to help you learn how to do this effectively? ABSOLUTELY! But ... guess what? In the last analysis, you are on your own. I am not a full-fledged expert, but I do know that I only got better with a lot of practice. Remember, we are trying to win the hearts and minds of average people who know little or nothing about firearms and frankly could not care less. These people only get interested at a time like this, when the media and the politicians are driving another wave of gun control. Average people are scared by words like "from my cold dead fingers," but many love to hear about SAFETY, RESPONSIBILITY, AND FREEDOM. This is going to have to be a grassroots program. None of the national organizations are able to spend the time and money necessary to whip a bunch of activists into a lean, mean, missionary machine. Stop worrying about where you might hide, or where should you move, or should you, should you .... Go to the mirror and tell the person you see that YOU have to do this, and just start doing it NOW. This is the ONLY way YOU can make a difference over the long haul. It is the only way when another Littleton and Georgia occur. Then there will more of us out there to calm the politicians, argue with the media, and keep our rights. I have had experience in dealing with the media and have done public speaking. I don't know all the answers, but I probably know some that can help you. I want to start this project by offering a forum which I will moderate. I am presently creating a very private, by-invitation-only email list for people interested in REALLY WORKING on this idea. Send me an email right away if you are interested. The email list will be extremely focused. The work that needs to be done is tremendous, but it can be done. The initial purposes of the email list will be to: 1. Identify our short term and long term goals; 2. Identify the different types of groups we want to target; 3. Arrange for people to work with each other to practice and improve their skills; 4. Share in the work of processing the requests for speakers and/or debaters; and, MOST IMPORTANT, 5. Gather and share information IMMEDIATELY on what our opponents are saying and exactly what we need to say for an effective response. If we can get this project off the ground, we can look at having ACTUAL TRAINING SESSIONS taught by people who are experts in this field. I firmly believe that this effort is something that must be done. Our opponents are well-financed and dedicated. They will not rest until they have won. I am a longtime NRA supporter, but this project is NOT an NRA project. (But I would have no problem asking the NRA for help.) Your choice is simple: Get with the program, or stand by and watch your rights disappear in your lifetime. - --Joel Friedman email: MOCHI1@ix.netcom.com ***** Please Cross-Post ***** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 99 08:19:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NRA on Lautenberg (fwd) On May 26, RHill@MICKEY.GC.WHECN.EDU wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.nraila.org/research/rilaut.htm Lautenberg -- Massive New Powers for Federal Gun Police Don't believe Clinton's deceptive media spin -- Lautenberg is not about "instant check" at gun shows. "Offering" to "exchange" a single firearm = at an "event" would be banned. Not one of these words is defined in = Federal law, but they all describe crimes that could send you to federal = prison. The National Matches -- Camp Perry -- is an "event!" So is your gun club's Sunday trap shoot. Even talking about a gun at an "event" could be seen = as an "offer" -- all banned under Lautenberg. Lautenberg is an unprecedented danger to your civil liberties. It establishes a huge tangled maze of new regulations, and gives enormous = power to Federal firearms police to interpret a host of undefined terms that = have never appeared in firearms law -- terms that can be used to prosecute = and imprison honest gun owners. Lautenberg registers gun owners. If you are not a licensed firearms = dealer and attend a gun show, even without bringing a gun, and you so much as discuss the possibility of selling a gun, you would be required to sign = "a ledger with identifying information." Gun show promoters would be = required to retain these ledgers indefinitely for federal police inspection. Lautenberg registers gun collectors. If you are at home with a firearm collection of fifty or more firearms, it would be a five-year felony to "offer" or "exchange" a single gun -- even between family or friends -- unless you first registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and pay an unlimited fee. Lautenberg requires the impossible. A gun show promoter is somehow = expected to be able to read the mind of every show attendee who intends to = discuss selling a firearm. Since that's impossible, gun show promoters would = have to check the identification of every show attendee, and would be required = to keep massive records on gun owners. Lautenberg invades the privacy of honest citizens. It orders the = federal government to retain for 90 days personal information about a = law-abiding citizen who clears an instant check. Current law demands that = information be destroyed immediately. Lautenberg authorizes a new, unlimited federal tax =D0 letting the = government charge whatever fee it likes to perform an instant background check. Lautenberg is not just about gun shows. If, as a private citizen, you display a firearm at a gun show, but make a sale months later to = someone you met at the show, you would be subject to all the same requirements = imposed on a sale that occurs at a show. None of these provisions have anything to do with school violence or = violent crime of any kind. They would create an enormous maze of complex new = federal regulations, designed to trap you and fellow gun owners in a snare of obscure restrictions for activities that have always been lawful and constitutionally protected. Failure to comply with any of these = restrictions will mean five years of federal jail time and crippling fines -- and permanent loss of gun ownership rights. No matter when you read this, call your Congressman immediately! Call 202/225-3121 and tell him to oppose Lautenberg! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #243 *************************