From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #270 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Monday, August 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 270 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 14:39:44 -0700 From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Yet Another Gun Poll Online http://civilliberty.about.com/library/blgpoll.htm?pid=2771&cob=home This one asks: "Should jurors opposed to gun control laws refuse to convict defendants even if they have clearly broken gun laws?" - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Compared to the Clintons, Reagan is living proof than a Republican with half a brain is better than a Democrat with two." P.J. O'Rourke - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 15:52:41 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Yet Another Gun Poll Online Hey Ken; Hows about supplying more accurate URL's from this bunch? Every time I try to follow up on your notices I can never find the right poll..... On Aug 14, Kenneth Mitchell wrote: >http://civilliberty.about.com/library/blgpoll.htm?pid=2771&cob=home > >This one asks: "Should jurors opposed to gun control laws refuse to convict >defendants even if they have clearly broken gun laws?" > > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net >916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) >--------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ >"Compared to the Clintons, Reagan is living proof than a Republican >with half a brain is better than a Democrat with two." > P.J. O'Rourke >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the >Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 22:40:21 -0400 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC" Subject: Re: Yet Another Gun Poll Online The one Ken gave worked fine for me! (Mac Netscape 4.0) Chad - --On Sat, Aug 14, 1999 15.52 +0000 Bill Vance wrote: > Hey Ken; > > Hows about supplying more accurate URL's from this bunch? Every time I > try to follow up on your notices I can never find the right poll..... > > On Aug 14, Kenneth Mitchell wrote: > >> http://civilliberty.about.com/library/blgpoll.htm?pid=2771&cob=home >> >> This one asks: "Should jurors opposed to gun control laws refuse to >> convict defendants even if they have clearly broken gun laws?" >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net >> 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) >> --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ >> "Compared to the Clintons, Reagan is living proof than a Republican >> with half a brain is better than a Democrat with two." >> P.J. O'Rourke >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the >> Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who > hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon > sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment > and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > --- > > - > Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 99 20:35:51 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Yet Another Gun Poll Online I don't use the Amiga for browsing, I use Netscape Navigator on my Linux machine for that. All I get is their home page, no poll. Same last time, too. :-( On Aug 14, Kenneth Mitchell wrote: >At 03:52 PM 8/14/1999 PST, you wrote: >>Hey Ken; >> >>Hows about supplying more accurate URL's from this bunch? Every time I try >>to follow up on your notices I can never find the right poll..... >> >>On Aug 14, Kenneth Mitchell wrote: >> >>>http://civilliberty.about.com/library/blgpoll.htm?pid=2771&cob=home >>> >>>This one asks: "Should jurors opposed to gun control laws refuse to convict >>>defendants even if they have clearly broken gun laws?" > >Hmmm. It worked for me, and I just tried it again, using both Internet >Explorer and Netscape Navigator. Which web browser are you using? And I >wonder if your Amiga mail program might not be mangling the URL's? Try >copying the URL and pasting it into your browser manually. > >Sorry about the inconvenience; I test the URL's I send by copying them from >the browser, pasting them into an e-mail message that I send to myself, and >checking to make sure that the URL I get back in e-mail is still the one I >wanted. Only then do I actually send out the e-mail message. > >You can still get there by going to http://www.about.com, and then >following the links Society/Culture to Issues/Causes to Civil Liberties >and then choose the "Guns & Juries Poll" at the bottom of the page. Huh! Now it works. Something must be a bit hoaky, but whether it's a system problem or my typing or what, I couldn't say. Guess I'll just have to keep trying it from time to time..... - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:56:03 -0400 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Re: Yet Another Gun Poll Online Me too==PC Netscape 4.03 Tom At 10:40 PM 8/14/99 -0400, you wrote: >The one Ken gave worked fine for me! (Mac Netscape 4.0) > >Chad > >--On Sat, Aug 14, 1999 15.52 +0000 Bill Vance >wrote: > >> Hey Ken; >> >> Hows about supplying more accurate URL's from this bunch? Every time I >> try to follow up on your notices I can never find the right poll..... >> >> On Aug 14, Kenneth Mitchell wrote: >> >>> http://civilliberty.about.com/library/blgpoll.htm?pid=2771&cob=home >>> >>> This one asks: "Should jurors opposed to gun control laws refuse to >>> convict defendants even if they have clearly broken gun laws?" >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net >>> 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) >>> --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ >>> "Compared to the Clintons, Reagan is living proof than a Republican >>> with half a brain is better than a Democrat with two." >>> P.J. O'Rourke >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the >>> Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ >> --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who >> hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon >> sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment >> and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | >> sword.--Jesus Christ >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ >> --- >> >> - >> > > > >Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC >Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting >Chad Leigh >chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 99 08:21:13 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: The Tyrants are Running For Cover. ATTACK! (fwd) On Aug 15, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > From: Norm Olson > Subject: The Tyrants are Running For Cover. ATTACK! > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 19:06:15 -0400 > > TO ALL: > > The calling campaign is driving the tyrants nutz. They've > countered by putting answering machines on their lines. > > A caller from New Zealand tried to get through to no avail. > He tried again. Still nothing. He called Christine Stitt and > asked for the names and numbers of the Governor's office, > and also the office of the Representatives for that district. > > GREAT IDEA! On Monday Morning, Please pummel > the following offices with calls. > > "Here's what to say. "I am _____________, calling from > ____________. I am calling to ask you to intervene > immediately in the matter of the Township of Bois Blanc > Island (pronounced Bo Blanc) v. Mike and Christine > Stitt. Do not let the persecution of this family continue. > Prevent another Ruby Ridge from happening. Thank you." > > I will be following this message later this evening with > a status report of the mission to the Island today. > > Here are some numbers. > Governor John Engler (R) 517-373-3400 > Lieutenant Goveror Dick Posthumus (R) 517-373-6800 > State Senator Walter North (R) 517-373-2413 > State Rep. Scott Shackleton (R) (toll free) > 1-877-726-8810 > Attorney General Jennifer Granholm (D) 517-373-1110 > > I would suggest you focus on Scott Shackleton since > he's got a toll free number. Have a ball everyone. > Call Every Day. You are driving these people crazy. > > Keep it up. > > PS. Chris and Mike were in tears today because of > your overwhelming support. Calls are coming in from > around the world. > > Chris will be doing talk radio. Some people are contacting > her. If you know broadcasters and hosts, call them and > have them do an interview with Christine. > > Christine Stitt's number is 231-634-7030. If you want > to give her a call of encouragement, please do. > > May God Bless All Our Patriots > > Norman Olson, Commander > Northern Michigan Regional Militia > Pastor, Freedom Church > > ________________________________________________________________ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:29:03 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: War Warning-China?? Stratfor Weekly Analysis Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:00:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "alert@stratfor.com" Subject: Weekly Analysis August 16, 1999 ___________________________________________ Visit Stratfor's NEW Middle East & Africa Intelligence Center http://www.stratfor.com/meaf/default.htm ___________________________________________ STRATFOR's Global Intelligence Update Weekly Analysis August 16, 1999 China's Available Military Options and its Relations with the U.S. Summary: Last week saw an intense campaign by China to warn anyone who would listen that it was going to take some sort of military action against Taiwan. We tend to believe them. We do not think that there will be an invasion, but several other military options present themselves. Given the public threats it has made, China must take some action. Beijing's credibility is now on the line. The United States says that it will intervene, while simultaneously claiming that China will not take action. On Saturday, a U.S. State Department official met with the Dalai Lama, China's mortal enemy. The U.S. is now committed to defending Taiwan, having said on record that the Chinese are bluffing and having publicly met with the Dalai Lama in the middle of all of this. China believes that the United States is trying to "Kosovo" it. Meanwhile, Johnny Chung is saying that the Democrats Counsel on the Government Reform and Oversight Committee gave him advice on how to take the Fifth Amendment. Things are, as they say, getting interesting. Analysis: China launched an intense and very public campaign last week designed to convince the world in general - and Taiwan and the U.S. in particular - that it intends to take military action against Taiwan in response to its stance on statehood. Newspapers throughout the world were filled with reports of statements made by Chinese diplomats and journalists to the effect that China was committed to taking military action against Taiwan in order to punish it. The Communist Party newspaper in Hong Kong reported, for example, that the "military situation was a lot more serious than what the outside world was aware of," and that China had identified 200 military targets on Taiwan. Troops were ostentatiously put on alert. Chinese warnings of inevitable military action against Taiwan were delivered to the U.S. as well. We take these warnings seriously. We are reminded that many years ago, just prior to China's intervention in the Korean War, Chinese diplomats and journalists delivered warnings in several venues about the consequences of UN forces moving close to the Yalu. Moreover, given the level of public visibility that the Chinese have given to their warning, it will be difficult for China not to act. As we stated last week [ http://www.stratfor.com/services/giu/080999.ASP ], we do not think that an invasion of Taiwan itself is possible at the moment. Therefore, the question is what sort of military options are available to China? One option, already discussed by us [ http://www.stratfor.com/asia/specialreports/special47.htm ] has apparently been floated by Chinese officials, is the seizure of two islands, Quemoy and Matsu, that are just off the mainland of China but are controlled by Taiwan. The islands were frequently shelled and threatened during the Cold War. Their seizure would be a high- profile, low-risk operation within the amphibious capabilities of China. A second strategy (or additional dimension to the Quemoy/Matsu move) is the launching of rockets and missiles against Taiwan. Such an attack could consist of anything from a symbolic attack with a small number of missiles against an unpopulated area, to an all-out attack against Taiwan's air and naval forces designed to reduce Taiwan's ability to defend itself against a follow-on amphibious assault. Now, there are two risks to this strategy. The first is in its effectiveness. As the U.S. discovered in Kosovo, there are limits to the effectiveness of air campaigns. To attack and fail is worse then not to attack at all. There is also the risk of Taiwan or U.S. counterstrikes against Chinese installations. If these were effective, the net effect of the campaign on China's strategic position would be disastrous. How confident is China in its aerospace forces? A third option is a campaign against Taiwan's shipping. A full blockade is not possible, but intermittent attacks against merchant vessels (recall the tanker wars in the Persian Gulf) might be possible using missiles, as well as aircraft and submarines to carry out direct attacks and lay mines. The problem with this strategy is that it could strike at the shipping of third powers, such as Europeans. In addition, Taiwan and the U.S. could retaliate by striking at China-bound shipping and mining China's ports. In a geographical sense, China is somewhat more vulnerable in this strategy than Taiwan. We should add here that If the U.S. participated in such a blockade of China, the ability of the Chinese to create problems at the Panama Canal would suddenly become an important variable. Each action has the possibility of a dangerous reaction. China must measure its actions against reactions. Chinese newspapers were full of bravado in the past week. Declaring victory before the war is dangerous, particularly when China cannot know whether they face Taiwan alone or the United States as well. The U.S. did everything it could last week to convince China that the U.S. was on auto- pilot in its Taiwan policy. If Taiwan were attacked, the United States would respond. U.S. Naval officers in the region made it clear that they were prepared, in position and capable of dealing with any Chinese threat. At the same time, in a move intended to infuriate China, a U.S. State Department official met with the Dalai Lama of Tibet in New York. Both the Taiwan and U.S. officials stated that it was their view that China would take no action. National Security Council spokesman David Leavy stated, "It's the United States government's judgment that there aren't any extraordinary developments or signs that there is a mobilization on the PRC's [People's Republic of China] part." The official U.S. view, publicly stated, is that China is bluffing and that its carefully circulated reports of mobilization and inevitable action are untrue. There are three possible explanations for what is going on: 1: U.S. intelligence has information that China not only can't invade Taiwan but that it cannot take any effective military action. Alternatively, the U.S. may be reading China as having the capability but being unwilling to use it. U.S. intelligence may have information that this really is a bluff. 2: The U.S. would welcome Chinese military action as an opportunity for a devastating counterstroke against China. It is engaged in an extensive strategy, going back to the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, designed to provoke China into a rash military move for which the U.S. is poised and ready. 3: There is a massive disconnect between Washington and Beijing concerning the others' concerns, contentions and capabilities. This sort of disconnect has happened numerous times before in U.S.- Chinese relations. It may be happening again. We choose number three. Let's look at the world from China's point of view. U.S. action in Kosovo was a critical breaking point for them. The U.S. had previously worked on a principle established in Haiti and Somalia that it had the right to intervene militarily in sovereign nations on humanitarian grounds. Embedded in that principle was the idea that it would do so with the support of the international community, meaning that there would be essential concurrence or at least neutrality in the members of the Security Council. In Kosovo, this was not the case. The U.S. intervened in the face of open opposition from two Security Council members, China and Russia. In Kosovo, the U.S. established the new principle that through NATO, it could intervene unilaterally into the internal affairs of a sovereign state and partition the country. Furthermore, should another country, even China, use its facilities to provide support for the targeted country, the U.S. was prepared to take direct military action even against their embassy. This told China two things. First, that the U.S. now regarded itself as an independent arbiter of the fate of nations. Second, that China would not be treated differently in any way from Serbia or Somalia. After Kosovo, China saw itself in the cross-hairs of U.S. policy, for several reasons: 1: China has two regional insurrections of varying levels underway. One is among the Moslem population of Xinjiang province; the other is in Tibet. China sees the U.S. as encouraging these insurrections. Having established the precedent of invading Serbia on behalf of the rights of the Kosovo Albanians, China sees the U.S. as having also, logically, asserted the right to intervene in Tibet and Xinjiang if it chooses. 2: Directly in the wake of the Kosovo crisis, Taiwan broke with fifty years of precedent by declaring itself a separate state. China is convinced that Taiwan would not have done this without tacit American approval. They see the U.S. promise to defend Taiwan after the declaration as proof of this proposition. This follows from the Kosovo doctrine as well: the U.S. has the right to redefine the boundaries of nations for moral or humanitarian reasons. 3: The U.S. harbored the leader of Falun Gong in New York. In Chinese dynastic history, numerous insurrections have originated with apparently apolitical sects generating hostility to the regime. In fact, the Chinese are setting up a campaign against a new group, Xiang Gong, which is said to have 30 million members. The Chinese government does not regard the rise of internal opposition as accidental. 4: China sees the U.S. as taking advantage of China's economic problems. This weekend, China's official People's Daily wrote, "An appropriate adjustment in the exchange rate may after all be a policy option if imports significantly exceed exports and push up a trade deficit." China is still in economic trouble. Regimes cannot afford to appear to be weak, particularly when they are. The issue here is how Beijing appears to the Chinese masses. That means that quiet diplomacy that wouldn't give Beijing a public victory is not going to happen. China sees the U.S. as having put into place policies that, if followed logically, would result in U.S. participation in the fragmentation of China. The one legacy of Mao that all Chinese value is that he eliminated the foreign domination and fragmentation of China that had existed for a century. Deng's promise was that he could retain Chinese sovereignty while easing China back into the international economic system. China is undergoing the great test of Deng's doctrine: can China retain its unity, territorial integrity and sovereignty while in economic decline, or will that decline generate disunity, fragmentation and a loss of sovereignty? The central problem is this. The U.S. did far more than save the Albanians. It redefined the region's geopolitics. This affected not only Serbia, but all countries surrounding Serbia. It drew countries like Bulgaria deep into the U.S. orbit at severe geopolitical cost to the Russians. The intention of Kosovo might have been limited. The outcome of Kosovo was a profound shift in regional alignments. Further, China has come to see U.S. peacekeeping operations as covers for expanding U.S. power. It also sees Kosovo as a blueprint for such operations elsewhere in the world, including China. It sees the bombing of the Chinese Embassy as a clear signal that the U.S. no longer distinguishes China from Haiti, Somalia or Serbia. Whether or not the U.S. intends to expand the Kosovo doctrine to China is immaterial. The Chinese view is that every U.S. move signals that the U.S. has a national interest in influencing human rights issues within China's boundaries. China must assume that the U.S. intends to carry that policy to its logical conclusion. If Taiwan is prepared to assert state sovereignty and the U.S. is prepared to defend that assertion militarily, then the U.S. is now prepared to redraw the map of China as it did the map of Serbia. China cannot permit that. It cannot now invade Taiwan, but it can take other measures. It must do something to retain its credibility. A man in Jiang Zemin's position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous. Now, there is a complicating issue. Johnny Chung, fund raiser for the Clinton campaign, has just stated that he received advice from the Counsel for the Democratic minority on the Government Reform and Oversight Committee prior to his testimony. The advice was about taking the Fifth Amendment prior to congressional testimony. One does not have to be Woodward and Bernstein to know that something stinks here. Clinton has a major China problem. That problem will drive him to be rigid and inflexible in order to protect himself from the charge of being a pawn of China. Now, are the military options for the U.S? The U.S. is far from helpless against China, but there are clear limits to its ability to engage China on its own terrain. China is not Serbia. Its ability to project forces is limited; its ability to operate defensively is not. Moreover, U.S. forces are scattered around the world. They are still carrying out air strikes in Iraq under some policy no one can quite remember. Aircraft and crews are being overhauled and rested from Kosovo. Korea is perennially unstable. Draw downs in budgets are showing themselves in countless ways. Neither China nor the U.S. is ready for an extended and indecisive encounter over Taiwan. It is not clear, however, that the Chinese are in a position to avoid some action. It seems to us that Bill Clinton cannot avoid responding. The danger here is not a short series of unimportant counterstrokes, rapidly passing into history. The danger is that both sides will get tangled in an extended, inconclusive and bloody confrontation. We cannot help but think of the air crews patrolling Iraqi airspace this weekend, eight years after Desert Storm. Decoupling from foreign adventures is not the American strong point. Ignoring challenges to national sovereignty is not the Chinese strong point. China thinks the U.S. wants to "Kosovo" it, to coin a term. The U.S. knows this is ridiculous. The meeting with the Dalai Lama was a courtesy. The Falun Gong leader's presence in New York was a coincidence. Taiwan never consulted the U.S. on its sovereignty statement. The U.S. has nothing to do with shipping arms into Xinjiang. Bombing the Chinese Embassy was an accident. It has occurred to no one in Washington to take advantage of China's economic problems. We're convinced. Now, somebody better tell the Chinese. ___________________________________________________ SUBSCRIBE to FREE, DAILY GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE UPDATES (GIU) http://www.stratfor.com/services/giu/subscribe.asp or send your name, organization, position, mailing address, phone number, and e-mail address to alert@stratfor.com UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THE GLOBAL INTELLIGENCE UPDATES (GIU) http://www.stratfor.com/services/giu/subscribe.asp ___________________________________________________ STRATFOR.COM 504 Lavaca, Suite 1100 Austin, TX 78701 Phone: 512-583-5000 Fax: 512-583-5025 Internet: http://www.stratfor.com/ Email: info@stratfor.com ___________________________________________________ (c) 1999, Stratfor, Inc. The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 09:11:36 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [richslick] S L I C K Year 4, No. 37 (fwd) On Aug 16, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] =A9 1999 Rich Martin Permission to repost in full, or in part, is granted. You are encouraged to pass this message on to anyone=20 who might be interested in its contents. Better yet, print a=20 copy for a friend who is not on-line. Any and all comments=20 on the subject matter are always welcome. Do not use your reply button if you want everyone to read them. Send them=20 to: Slick-d@egroups.com To read the comments of others, send me an e-mail with=20 the subj: JOIN Slick-d. I will send you my personal=20 invitation to join the list.=20 From the Desk of Rich Martin P O Box 531918 972/263-6631 Grand Prairie, TX 75053 RichSlick@aol.com "The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the=20 destiny of the republican model of government are justly=20 considered deeply, finally, staked on the experiment=20 entrusted to the hands of the American people."=20 George Washington, First Inaugural Address, Apr. 30, 1789 =20 _______________________________________________=20 Happy Birthday Bro, 1999 Buford Furrow. Now that's a name to live in infamy.=20 Child killer. And even unsuccessful at that. Easy to dismiss=20 this as an act as a nut and go on to the next stage,=20 justifying capital punishment. But wait a second, let's=20 collect the facts we know. Besides Furrow being mentally unstable, he is said to=20 be a member of the Aryan Nations in Idaho. The FBI=20 assertions they have infiltrated the "hate group" are=20 undoubtedly true. It seems completely plausible, that the=20 guy claiming to be undercover FBI Agent, and a general in=20 the suspect group, is telling the truth, when he says Furrow=20 was under his command.=20 Now consider this. After completing his "mission", the=20 nut got into a L.A. taxi and paid $800 to bring him to=20 Las Vegas FBI headquarters. I'd be curious how/why a=20 survivalist with serious mental problems even has that much=20 cash, much less, why he chose his destination. Did the idiot=20 think he think he was going to a "safe house"?=20 Sp= okane.ne t - Buford Furrow=20 How Slick is Slick?=20 The prez used the occasion, as he does at all these=20 tragedies, to call for more gun control. Naturally, they're=20 blaming "unregulated" gun shows as the culprit. How come=20 they knew they could shut down the Sunday Gun Shows by=20 turning off the Feds' Instant Check computer, but still=20 claim these sales are unregulated? If they aren't regulated,=20 how did they track it to a gun show, ask the crazy perp?=20 THE GUN=20 The gun, the gun. Where did Furrow get the gun? Don't=20 know for sure. All we do know it was once the property of a=20 police dept which turned around and sold it---BECAUSE IT WASN'T POWERFUL ENOUGH FOR POLICE WORK. Excuse me. A Glock 9 is not BIG enough? What are they=20 hunting? Gun Owners of=20 America=20 CAMPAIGN REFORM They just don't get it. Jesse Jackson and other liberals=20 act like it's a crime that Steve Forbes spends so much of=20 his own money to tell people what he stands for. It's not=20 the money that's the problem. It's expecting something in=20 return for the contribution, like a missile guidance system.=20 Likewise, anonymous donations in any amount do not corrupt=20 the election process, since there can be no pay off without=20 knowing who the donor was. It's when they give the prez=20 secretary $50K at a WH Coffee Klatch that threatens this=20 nation. 3RD PARTY New Hampshire Sen. Bob Smith announced Tuesday he would=20 run for president as the candidate of the U.S. Taxpayers=20 Party, urging conservatives to "come home" to their core=20 beliefs. Smith quit the Republican Party on July 13. Rumors=20 are, populist Pat Buchanan will also bolt the GOP to seek=20 the candidacies of the Reform Party. MEDIACRATS CNN's Wolf Blitzer gleefully reported that Hillary's=20 "step-grandfather" was Jewish. Is this man crazy, or does he=20 think we're stupid. Hillary's mom was married to a Jew prior=20 to marrying Hillary's father. He's no more a step-anything=20 to Hillary than if you divorced your spouse, and then he/she=20 had a baby with another. The product of that relationship=20 would not be your stepchild, and her/his child would not by=20 your stepchild, as Wolf tried to mislead. One more time. If you got a divorce, had a child with a=20 new partner, your ex would not be the baby's stepparent. CNN=20 is simply trying to suck up to the gullibility of NY Jews,=20 as is their sponsor, Hillary. But you know the worse part, there's many a black who=20 believes Clinton is our first black president; and I suspect the Jewish community will adopt Hillary similarly. MORE CNN (CLINTON NEWS NETWORK)=20 This Sunday, Blitzer was cleverly asking Rep Kasich=20 about Gov Bush refusing to answer the question whether he=20 used cocaine 20 yrs ago. He couched his words cagely, so as=20 to infer it was GOP leaders were demanding an answer. Well,=20 I don't know what George W was doing back then, but we do=20 know what the Attny Genl of Ark was doing in a Little Rock=20 hotel then, and you can bet your bottom dollar, Wolf doesn't=20 want to hear about it. Broaddrick=20 NATO (UPI Spotlight) Congress challenges Clinton on NATO =20 WASHINGTON, August 10 (UPI) - The House and Senate have=20 challenged President Clinton to say whether NATO's new=20 "strategic concept" - security enforcement even beyond the=20 alliance's traditional European borders - is binding on the=20 United States, says Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan. If it is,=20 Roberts says, it should be submitted to the Senate as a=20 treaty to be ratified. If it's not, "What the heck are we=20 doing in Bosnia and Kosovo and all those other places? He's=20 stuck between a rock and a hard place," Roberts said in a=20 press conference (Tuesday) on the new Year 2000 defense=20 authorization conference report.=20 In other words, if NATO has changed it's charter from=20 being a defensive (of Europe) organization to an aggressive=20 fighting force without consulting it's member nations,=20 haven't they breached the contract with them. And if=20 Congress agreed to join NATO when it's purpose was to defend=20 Europe, shouldn't they be asked to ratify any such drastic=20 change in their mission?=20 AN INTERESTING ITEM Kosovo War. The London Daily Telegraph reviewed a Royal=20 Air Force report on failures during the Kosovo War. The RAF=20 blamed American intelligence for being slow with intel=20 collection, review, and dissemination to combat squadrons. =20 In many cases, it took 3 days for the targeting info to get=20 to the attackers, which allowed the Serbs to move their=20 equipment. The RAF called the entire exercise a failure,=20 counting fewer than 7 Serb tanks killed in 3 months of=20 bombing. To put this in perspective, remember the A-10 2- Ship that took out 24 Iraqi tanks during the Gulf War? We=20 have just demonstrated our complete incompetence to the=20 entire world - making the world a far more dangerous place. =20 More Interesting Items can be now be found on Rod Martin's=20 (no relation) "Vanguard" at Interesting Items by Alex=20 Gimarc=20 TOBACCO DEAL If the govt was really interested in fighting tobacco=20 addiction, you'd think they'd be giving tax credits for attending Stop Smoking classes. KATHIE'S KORNER No, the government should NOT be offering incentives for=20 "good behavior." That is not government's job. Its job is to=20 protect its citizens from those who would remove our=20 freedoms from us. That idea has become almost oxymoronic=20 lately, since the enemy most likely to try to enslave us=20 is... the government. Taxation should not offer incentives=20 to marriage nor to singleness, and the government should not=20 require employers to reward employees based upon their=20 marital status. =20 Since it does, then I must side with those homosexuals=20 who lobby in favor of their right to marry each other. They=20 wouldn't be making the request were there not legal=20 advantages. We should all be lobbying for equal treatment=20 under the law. I would prefer that marriage be kept a=20 religious sacrament, not a civil one, and allow churches to=20 decide who should be barred from participation. But the=20 government stuck its fingers into marriage long before I=20 came on the scene. Pray for America! Reply to: Kathie fishrap@netdex.com LETTER-TO-THE-EDITOR SENT FYI; Since there was a hung jury, when are they=20 going to have the IMPEACHMENT trial again? Rocky < cfrocky@mindspring.com >=20 FROM THE MOUTHS OF BABES "If this was going to happen again, the ID cards=20 wouldn't stop them. They don't really do any good. I don't=20 know why they want us to wear them," said sophomore Sara=20 Schweitzberger, at Columbine this year. She was in the=20 downstairs cafeteria during the shootings.=20 REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS... when a church key was something other than a key to get into=20 a church. BEST OF SLICK-d DAnde1706@aol.com wrote: Dave, There was an article in the Dallas Morning News today=20 that just left me speechless....it was about a family of=20 Kosovar Albanians who were settled in Dallas, and were=20 COMPLAINING that the govt isn't giving them "all they=20 deserve". NOW here's the kicker......they got a $750=20 apartment paid for FREE for 3 months..they got jobs...they=20 get $550 a MONTH in food stamps...they get medicaid.....they=20 got a whole apartment FULL of FREE,NEW furniture, dishes,=20 etc worth about $1,400..the old MAN of the family, who has=20 never worked a DAY in the US or paid into social security=20 gets MEDICARE AND a $500 a month SOCIAL SECURITY check. AND=20 THEN THE DEMOCRATS SAY WE CANT HAVE A TAX CUT, BECAUSE WE=20 HAVE TO SHORE UP MEDICARE AN SOCIAL SECURITY!!! NO=20 Shit!!!,,,,,,So we can GIVE it away to FOREIGNERS, who THEN=20 have the GALL to complain they aren't getting ENOUGH!!!=20 Stu QUESTION FOR THE TERM Got a good one for you guys, on the abortion front. Why=20 is it a woman doesn't need a man's okay to abort a baby but=20 a man needs the wife's permission to get a vascetomy, also=20 my ex-wife had her tubes cut and tied and I was never =20 informed until after it occurred. Equal rights? I don't think=20 so. Name withheld PEN PALS Marine Jailed for Refusing Vaccine The Associated Press CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) - A Marine helicopter crew chief=20 has been sentenced to 30 days in confinement and issued a=20 bad conduct discharge for refusing to take the anthrax=20 vaccination required for all military personnel. Pvt. Eric=20 Myers, 20, of Elbert, Colo., also was ordered to forfeit=20 $400 in pay. "I stood up for myself and my health," Myers=20 said after Thursday's hearing... The prosecutor called Myers' refusal insubordination. "It's=20 a matter of discipline," Capt. Breven Parsons. "We don't get=20 to pick and choose our orders. In a related case, the trial=20 of Cpl. Abel Wenning, 22, of Cobb County, Ga., was scheduled=20 to begin today. He also refused to be inoculated... UNITED STATES TAX PARTY If you are interested in attending the USTP convention=20 in St. Louis, please call 314-861-0060 if you're interested. YAH= OO=20 COMES OUT AGAINST GUN OWNERS=20 THIS SPACE FOR RENT Reliable Internet Access for only $14.95 a month. Over 550 access numbers in 21 States and growing. Cyber77-ISP, web hosts, unlimited access,=20 high-speed servers=20 If you have your own web site, you know it's not enough=20 to be on the internet with 30,000,000 geeks. Oh, search=20 engines are great---for the other guy, but wouldn't you=20 prefer to be a little more direct? Instead of trying to=20 reach millions of people who can't spell your name, here's=20 your chance to target thousands of politically active=20 people like yourself. Send e-mail for details to RichSlick. PARTING THOUGHT If the definition of legal insanity is being unable to=20 determine right from wrong, Buford is as innocent as you or=20 I. He thought, no, he knew he was doing the right thing.=20 * * * * *=20 Subscribe to this Slick e-zine featuring Kathie's Korner, and receive absolutely free, a copy of Rich's Major Media=20 Mailing List containing over 400 e-mail addresses. To=20 subscribe, send your check for $24.95 to the address at the=20 top of this message. Be sure to include your e-mail address. Anyone wishing to carry Slick at their WWW site should=20 contact me by e-mail. Having the current Slick updated once or twice a week gives visitors a reason to come back soon. THE TRUTH IS...=20 A. Powerful. C. In the eye of the beholder.=20 B. Irrelevant. D. All of the above. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9% FIXED APR. Apply online today! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/606 eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/richslick http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #270 *************************