From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #275 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, August 28 1999 Volume 02 : Number 275 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 99 08:37:28 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [ More on "Stop Code"] (fwd) On Aug 26, D. D. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] For all of you who cannot comprehend what the "chicken little' conspiracy theorists are saying about 9-9-99 being a major event. It won't. It apparently can't, at least if you understand this writers conclusion. "Thanks Randy". Rick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/slick-d http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications From: "Randall Dunning" To: "'rdo156@mail.airmail.net'" Subject: More on "Stop Code" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:28:33 -0500 Hello Rick, I am sending this again with further comments. I intend to pass it out to the Bible Study meeting at my house this weekend as I am sure many will be "on the bandwagon" for the "stop code" panic. I think we are being hoodwinked on this one., Cheers, RD "Who has time to investigate the constant avalanche of corruption emanating from this [Clinton's] administration." Joseph Farah - Founder, Western Journalism Center - -----Original Message----- From: Dunning, Randall [RICH2:2N15:EXCH] Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 5:22 PM To: 'rdo156@mail.airmail.net' Subject: RE: How do we verify something like this. Hello Rick, And now a few words of sanity from a 19+ year computer professional: 999999 is not a date. All the fields which hold this kind of date are 6 bytes of the format MMDDYY or YYMMDD where YY is a year like 99 MM is a month like 11 for November or 09 for September DD is a day like 25 for the twenty fifth day of the month. For days and months which have one digit, a zero is used as the placeholder since some valid digit must occupy every field to keep the computer from becoming confused. Using this scheme, Jan would be 01, Feb - 02, March - 03 and so on. The same holds true for single digit day dates. So what do the September dates look like? 9 September 1999 - 090999 or 990909 19 September 1999 - 091999 or 990919 29 September 1999 - 092999 or 990929 None of these matches the stop code of 999999. There is no way for the computer to mistake any of these for 999999 for the following reason: There are only 6 tests a computer can make in comparison: Greater than (>) Greater than or Equal (>=) Less than (<) Less than or Equal (<=) Equal (=) Not Equal (!=) In the case of the 999999 stop code the programmer would pick either "Greater Than or Equal" or "Equal" as his test condition to invoke the stop code. It would look, in a program, something like this: If (date_value >= 999999) Then ...perform some stop processing else ... perform some standard processing end if None of the September dates would trigger the stop code processing Why was this number chosen? Because there is never a 99th day of the 99th month in the 99th year. Now, what about those who say: "What if they convert the ASCII 090999 to integer to save even more space? First we have to understand the different between ASCII and integer data. ASCII has 8 bits representing each character, in this case the numerals 0 and 9. Integer uses a binary string of bits to represent the number itself rather than it's individual characters. Thus a 32 bit integer would be required to handle dates. Why 32 bits? There are typically 4 types of integer data used in computers: Byte - 8 bits, maximum unsigned value: 255. Short word - 16 bits, maximum unsigned value: 65,535 Long word - 32 bits, maximum unsigned value: 4,294,967,295 Extended - 64 bits, maximum unisgned value: Take my word for it, its huge! Notice that 90999 or 990909 are larger than 65,535 so Long word what any sane programmer would choose. Now let's look at the possibility of Sept 9 1999 being mistaken for "stop code": ASCII 090999 looks like this in binary: 00110000 00111001 00110000 00111001 00111001 00111001 While integer 090999 (actually the leading zero drops so it is 90999 decimal) in binary is: 00000000000000010110001101110111 When we compare this to any of the various proposed "stop codes" we find the following: 99999 is 00000000000000011000011010011111 and 999999 is 00000000000011110100001000111111 , Notice that neither matches 90999 00000000000000010110001101110111 or the other varient: 990909 00000000000011110001111010111101 And this analysis holds for Sept 19th and Sept 29th as well. (Calculation of the binary values is an exercise left to the reader.) So, even if we convert to 32 bit integer, there is no likelyhood that any computers will fail due to the so called "stop code". Now there is one last date format which I have seen in fairly wide use and that is the "Modified Julian Date". In this scheme, date is represented by the following representation: YYDDD Where YY is the last two digits of the year (ie. 99) DDD is the day of the year with values ranging from 1 to 365. Even here we do not have a "stop code" problem as 99999 would be the 999th day of the 99th year. This is an imposibility. So, in Modified Julian, the suspect dates: Sept 9, 1999 would be 99252, Sept 19, 1999 would be 99262 and Sept 29, 1999 would be 99272 If I had time I could do the binary analysis on the Modified Julian dates but I think the reader gets the point. None of these dates would trigger a stop code branch in any currently working computer program. So, until someone produces a simple mathematical argument based on sound principles of computational analysis, I conclude the "stop code" problem is a HOAX designed to discredit well meaning people concerned with Yankee-Two-Kilo. It also is likely that this has been floated to give the public a false sense of security by allowing them to say: "See, the 'stop code' problem was a big nothing, therefore Y2K will be a big nothing." It is possible that a "Boy that Cried Wolf" operation is being worked against the public by our good friends in the administration and their useful idiots. BOTTOM LINE - --------------------- There are many date related problems with the computers. This is not one of them. Cheers, RD "Who has time to investigate the constant avalanche of corruption emanating from this [Clinton's] administration." Joseph Farah - Founder, Western Journalism Center [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 99 08:39:49 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [Fwd: NATO is now the enemy by Col. David Hackworth] (fwd) On Aug 26, D. D. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - --------------65114B212FD9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As if we couldn't figure this one out ourselves. ;-)> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/slick-d http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:19:51 -0600 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: spiker Subject: NATO is now the enemy by Col. David Hackworth NATO is now the enemy http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_hackworth/19990824_xcdha_nato_now_e.shtml Col. David Hackworth WorldNetDaily Bill Clinton and British leader Tony Blair don't want us to get the word that: Their promises to end the bloodshed and ethnic cleansing and bring peace to Kosovo aren't happening. Bullets and grenades are still flying in Kosovo. Americans and other NATO soldiers are now targets along with the Kosovars. Just as they lied to us about how NATO air power was clobbering the Serbian Army, their spinmeisters are now working overtime to put the best face on a situation that daily becomes nastier. The facts are that since VK-day -- "Victory in Kosovo" -- more Serb civilians have been slaughtered than ethnic Albanians were before the NATO air campaign began. Since NATO's last bomb fell, scores of Serbians, Gypsies and Jews have been murdered, over 200 Serb villages have been torched and 50 Christian churches have been defiled or destroyed. Grannies are being murdered in their homes. Out of 350,000 Serbs, Gypsies, Jews and others who've lived in Kosovo for centuries, all but 30,000 have fled to nearby countries. They no longer trust NATO to protect them and don't see the promised peace coming anytime soon. Why should they? NATO troops flat haven't been able to stop the violence or the ethnic cleansing. Clinton has once again stuck American soldiers into a killing field where he didn't think out the consequences beforehand. And the deal that stopped the war with Serbia, wrongheaded from the get- go, is now slip-sliding away. How could it be otherwise? Serbia was promised that Kosovo -- a Serbian province -- would remain within its territory, while the Kosovo Liberation Army's objective has always been total independence from Serbia with ethnic Albanians in control of the province. KLA leaders have stated from the onset they didn't see a democratic future for Kosovo or even a multi-ethnic state. What started the fire that led to NATO's most recent Balkan intervention was the KLA's insurgency campaign. Using standard guerrilla tactics and techniques -- terrorism, violence, insurgency -- they sought political power through the end of a gun barrel. When the KLA attacked Serbian police, military and civilian targets in Kosovo, the Serbs struck back at the KLA with no holds barred. "Ethnic Albanians are being murdered and oppressed by the Serbian monsters," the KLA propaganda apparatus screamed. Led by the Geraldo Rivera school of journalism, much of the press failed to report the other half of the story. Now it's NATO's bad luck to replace the Serbs in this ancient quagmire as the latest "oppressors and occupation troops." They're beginning to get what the Serbs have taken for years. And the one thing they can count on is that it'll get worse. The KLA say they've turned in their weapons in accordance with the peace agreement, and the violence in Kosovo isn't their doing - - - it's the work of Albanian rogues and gangsters. Right. Just like it wasn't the Imperial Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbor -- it was a bunch of rogue Eskimos in flying machines rented from Hertz. A year ago, our State Department -- headed up by Madeleine Albright -- declared the KLA was a "terrorist organization" big into drug running and organized crime, a finding backed up by international police. But while Mad Maddy was ranting, the rest of the Clinton gang was providing the KLA with secret funds, clandestine training and not-so-covert NATO air support. Clinton broke a cardinal rule: never jump in bed with terrorists and never declare them "freedom fighters." History repeatedly has shown that yesterday's freedom fighter often becomes today's terrorist and tomorrow's Public Enemy No. 1. But since German, Italian and French soldiers have been struck down in KLA attacks, it's likely that Clinton and Blair won't be able to keep the lid on the mess they've created very much longer. It's just a matter of time before one or several of the 17 other NATO architects of this fatally incongruent peace deal blows the whistle. Then maybe even the international press corps will put out the straight skinny. The bottom line is NATO will never accept an independent Kosovo and the KLA will never accept anything less. If the KLA isn't put down, expect the violence to increase and American casualties to mount. Col. David Hackworth is co-author of the 1989 international best seller, "About Face" and the subsequent "Brave Men." His latest book is "Hazardous Duty." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:40:49 -0400 (EDT) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: [slick-d] [Fwd: NATO is now the enemy by Col. David Hackworth] (fwd) Col. Hackworth argues that a democratic Kosovo, quasi-autonomous within Serbia is not going to happen. Agreed. Its probably not going to happen the way NATO wants. What he doesn't mention is the 100's of thousands of refugees, systematic rape and torture and 1000's confirmed dead in mass graves. Its not nice and neat, it never was and never will be. If NATO fights a fools battle trying to contain Albanian Kosovar violence (understandable violence) against the Serbs, then they deserve whatever they get. IMNSHO you can put Hackworth on the list with Arianna Huffington of people who adhor Albanian Kosovar violence and ignore much greater Serbian horrors. ciao, jcurtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:03:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Delta Force had active role in raid on waco (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:01:46 -0500 (CDT) [INLINE] Delta Force had active role in raid, ex-CIA officer told=20 =20 Pentagon won't discuss Army commando unit =20 08/27/99 =20 By Lee Hancock / The Dallas Morning News =20 =A9 1999, The Dallas Morning News =20 A former CIA officer said Thursday that he learned from Delta Force commandos that members of the secret Army unit were "present, up front and close" in helping the FBI in the final tear-gas assault on the Branch Davidian compound. =20 The former officer, Gene Cullen, told The Dallas Morning News that he heard the detailed accounts of the military's active involvement from "three or four" anti-terrorist Delta commandos as he worked with them on an overseas assignment in 1993. =20 "Whether it's the macho-bravo-type talk of guys in the field, I don't know," he said, declining to identify the individuals involved. "I have no reason to suspect that they lied. And it didn't just come from one of them. There were three or four guys that confirmed that, who were from Delta." =20 In the months after the Waco tragedy, Mr. Cullen said, he heard from associates in Delta Force that the secret unit's involvement there amounted to far more than observation or tactical discussions. =20 While he was deployed overseas on an assignment, Mr. Cullen said, Delta operators told him that the unit "had 10 operators down there, that they were involved in the advanced forward stages of [the FBI's April 19] operations." =20 "When they explained to me the depth to which they were involved down in Waco, I was quite surprised. They said basically they were out there in the vehicles, the Bradley [fighting vehicles], the CEV [tanks]," he said. "They were active." =20 The chairman of the Texas Department of Public Safety told The News on Thursday that evidence in the hands of Texas law enforcement personnel may support the account given to Mr. Cullen. =20 "I'm advised there is some evidence that may corroborate" the allegation that Delta Force participated in the assault, said James B. Francis Jr., the DPS official. =20 A Pentagon spokesman who spoke on condition of anonymity denied Thursday that any U.S. military units were involved in the assault, "as far as I know." =20 Use of active-duty military personnel against civilians without a specific presidential decree is a violation of federal law. =20 The spokesman confirmed that three Defense Department "observers" whom he declined to identify were in the Waco area on April 19, 1993, the day that an FBI tear-gas assault ended in a fire that consumed the compound. Branch Davidian leader David Koresh and more than 80 followers died in the fire, which arson investigators ruled was deliberately set by sect members. =20 The spokesman said Pentagon policy barred him from any public discussion of Delta Force, even the possibility of its existence. =20 A once-classified memo written to the military's Special Forces Command, which includes Delta Force, indicated that three of its members watched the final tragedy unfold. The May 1993 memo stated that the observers did not participate and were warned not to videotape anything that happened. =20 Mr. Francis said evidence in the hands of Texas law enforcement suggests that more than three Delta Force members were at the compound on April 19 and involved in the assault. =20 "I have been advised that there are some police officers who have developed some evidence that needs looking into with regard to what the role of Delta Force was at the Branch Davidian compound," he said, declining to elaborate. =20 "I think it's a subject that the FBI director and the attorney general need to look into," Mr. Francis said. "The $64 question is whether they were advisory or operational, and I think some of the evidence is problematical." =20 An FBI spokesman in Washington said he had been instructed by the Department of Justice to refer all questions on the presence of Delta Force to the Pentagon. =20 The spokesman, Tron Brekke, added that he could not say whether Delta Force might have actively assisted the FBI in any way in Waco "because I don't think anybody knows." =20 "That's part of the reason that the attorney general and the director are, in a very expeditious manner, going to have 40 assistant inspectors and whoever is chosen to lead them come down and find out definitively what did happen," he said. "I don't know what was done or wasn't done down there." =20 On Wednesday, the FBI announced that a full inquiry was being launched to explain the possible use of pyrotechnic tear-gas canisters by the FBI hostage rescue team during the final assault. =20 The bureau's admission that such devices "may have been used" marked an abrupt reversal of a long-standing denial that its agents used anything capable of sparking a fire at the compound. =20 Bureau and Justice Department officials have maintained that the devices could not have played a role in the fire because they were used hours before the blaze and were fired at an underground bunker adjacent to the wooden compound. =20 A pending wrongful-death suit filed by surviving Branch Davidians and families of the dead has alleged that agents launched pyrotechnic devices into the compound and fired into the building. The government vehemently denies those charges. =20 Federal officials from President Clinton down have staunchly maintained in the six years since the tragedy that FBI agents did not fire a single shot during the entire 51-day siege. =20 Mr. Cullen, who said he worked as a CIA case officer from the 1980s to 1995, said Special Forces experts watched events near Waco with interest immediately after four federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms agents died trying to serve search warrants at the Branch Davidian compound. =20 At the time, he said, he was a supervisor in the CIA's special operations group and had frequent contact with members of Delta Force, Navy Seals and civilian tactical experts such as the FBI's hostage rescue team. =20 Before joining the CIA, he said, he worked as a deputy U.S. marshal, so he was particularly interested in exploring the problems faced by civilian law enforcement near Waco. =20 A CIA spokesman on Thursday refused to confirm or deny whether Mr. Cullen ever worked for the agency, in accordance with policy. The U.S. Marshals Service confirmed that he worked for that agency in the early 1980s. Mr. Cullen said he left the CIA to take over his family's construction firm. =20 Since he resigned, Mr. Cullen has appeared on the PBS documentary program Frontline to discuss his involvement in the Special Forces' operations in Somalia, a deployment that ended in tragedy when U.S. Army Blackhawk helicopters were downed and Special Forces soldiers died in a Mogadishu gunbattle. =20 Immediately after the Branch Davidian standoff began, Mr. Cullen said, he learned from associates within the CIA and Special Forces that the FBI had called in Delta Force personnel "as observers." =20 "The bureau was very concerned. They weren't quite sure what David Koresh had inside that building anyway," Mr. Cullen said. "They were leaning on Delta. If there was something that blew up in their faces, they were interested in having Delta on the scene to respond and be fully equipped, operational and ready to go on a moment's notice." =20 In mid-March 1993, Mr. Cullen said, officials with his group called a meeting of about 20 special operations experts, including FBI and Delta personnel, to discuss Waco because it represented a useful case study on how tactical experts might respond to hostage situations. =20 He said he proposed using chemical agents to render the Branch Davidians unconscious so the compound could be taken without violence. =20 "If you pump tear gas into the building, everybody's going to get their gas masks," he said. "You're giving them time to prepare for something." =20 FBI officials have testified before Congress that some form of anesthetic gas was briefly discussed but was ruled out near Waco because of the potential threat to children and weak adults. =20 Mr. Cullen said that he attended no other formal meetings on Waco but that he later learned in conversations with special operations colleagues that authorities had ruled out any operation that involved sending personnel into the compound. =20 "It was more 'contain 'em. We're going to get em out.' There wasn't any type of talk about trying any type of rescue," he said. =20 Documents released under the federal Freedom of Information Act to a Tuscon, Ariz., lawyer indicate that the military's Special Forces Operations Command at MacDill Air Force Base in Florida was heavily involved in helping the FBI in Waco. Military personnel provided technical and equipment support, the defense records indicate. =20 The command oversees Delta Force, Navy Seals and other units. =20 A May 1993 Special Forces memo stressed that the military in Waco played only "a supporting role." It was written by an officer who helped the FBI persuade the attorney general to approve the tear-gas assault. =20 The officer, whose name was blacked out, stated that the discussions with Ms. Reno before the assault did not include any mention of "the use of the military." =20 The memo stated that Special Forces observers who stayed in Waco through April 19 understood the legal restrictions on their activities. =20 Other defense documents indicate that some Special Forces officials feared that even watching law enforcement activities in Waco might violate federal prohibitions on domestic military activity. =20 Special Forces soldiers who trained ATF agents before they raided the compound Feb. 28, 1993, were specifically barred from watching the raid or offering medical support, the documents indicate. =20 "I felt as if my hands were tied," one Special Forces soldier wrote. =20 [ Texas & Southwest | Dallasnews.com ] =20 =A91999 The Dallas Morning News =20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99 12:29:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Mind-Altering Psychiatric Drug Control, NOT gun control! (fwd) On Aug 28, Dave Wiegand wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hello Fellow RKBAers! Some of you who can stomach the socialist garbage that's printed in the newspapers may have noticed the AP story recently about a "killer mom" in Southern California who killed her four young sons with a gun. Susan Eubanks' attorney, Vince Garcia, "contends that Ms. Eubanks shot the children because her judgment was clouded by too much alcohol and Valium." Score another one for violence caused by mind-altering psychiatric drugs. And score another propaganda item for those who want to restrict your alienable right of self defense with a firearm. These two issues feed off one another. There is ample evidence advocates for the psychiatric industry and gun control are the same group. It might be noted that Ms. Eubanks was not violent and was a "good mother for 14 years until she suffered work-related injuries that led to her addiction to pain-killers" and to alcohol, and psychiatric drugs. Psychiatrists who have communicated to me have indicated that yes, they HAVE noted increased aggressive and assaultive behavior in those who were prescribed psychotropic drugs, but justify continuing use of the drugs as an acceptable risk. Acceptable risk? They do not want to admit that their patients exhibited NO violent behavior before drugs, that the drugs CAUSE the violence, but continue to parrot the drug company "party line" that these "patients" should "continue their meds" to keep from becoming violent. Why not look for some solution other than drugs and JUST NOT TAKE DRUGS? All the while, gun control advocates wait with baited breath for another "patient" on psychiatric drugs to commit a criminal violent act involving firearms so they can promote their gun grabbing agenda. Another related (the same?) group wait too so they can lobby for funds to lock up and give special "treatment" to those "mental patients" driven into criminal acts by psychiatric drugs. And the psychiatric drug lords laugh all the way to the bank. You think illegal drugs is big business? How about the LEGAL business getting millions hooked on psychiatric drugs! Taking away your firearms and taking psychiatric drugs BOTH accomplish the same thing. They both render a person less able to cause, less dangerous to the environment (AND less dangerous to un-ethical politicians and corrupt governments), and more susceptible to the "social control" the political elitist so dearly loves. The motivation of those who advocate gun control and getting people on psychiatric drugs is the same, namely, fear. Fear that they will be found out. And for what? For crimes perhaps, but certainly found out for less than ethical actions they committed and justified in achieving their coveted position. Want to fight them? Advocate the truth for one thing. For another, find and expose their crimes, (or get them to admit to them and recant), their little dirty dealings, and their hypocrisy (like Perata's CCW or Feinstein's full-auto toting bodyguards or shady dealings - you'll find them. Ask Saundra Duffy, GOP hopeful for Congress in the Bay Area.) Hasn't anyone noted that those politicians who push the hardest for measures, like psychiatric clinics in schools, mental health insurance "parity", and expanded prescription privileges for psychologists, are the SAME group who fight the hardest to take our guns? Do the names Stark, Perata, Aroner, Thompson, Feinstein, Boxer, and more sound familiar? They ought too. They are some of those who bray the hardest about "guns that serve no purpose other than to kill." For them it's OK for "public servant" law enforcement goons to tote these "killer tools" but not the responsible private citizen. Who is governing who here? AND, this gang pushes madly to promote psychiatric drug use! A philosopher I admire once wrote something like "Support a government [and politicians} that work for the good of all the people." That doesn't sound at all like the bunch listed above. If you haven't figured out that there IS a connection between psychiatric drug use and your RKBA freedoms, you haven't been paying attention. "Guns don't kill. Criminals and people turned into criminals by mind-altering psychiatric drugs kill!" Firearm Owners! Do NOT take mind-altering psychiatric drugs! Flame me if you like, but before you do, please check your facts. And, if you have a vested interest in continuing to push psychiatric drugs, don't bother screaming to me. You need to search YOUR conscience first. What have YOU been up to? I appreciate rational argument better. RKBA FREEDOM! David F. Wiegand DFWiegand@email.msn.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 99 19:40:57 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] EQUAL TIME Newsletter (fwd) On Aug 28, Equal Time wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -- EQUAL TIME -- (http://members.xoom.com/EqualTime/) - -- Newsletter -- - -- News, Updates, Announcements... -- This week's TIDBITS include: * Gov't Concealing Y2K Disaster Predictions, Says Navy Officer * Gore Exaggerates His Plan's Savings * "Segregation is Okay," says recent poll - --- FEATURES: WHAT'S IMPORTANT: THE ISSUES GET TO KNOW THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES - FAST! Tired of political polls and media hype? When considering who's best for President in 2000, know your politicians! To help, we've put together an easy-read chart showing how some of the presidential candidates stand on several issues. Go to: http://membbers.xoom.com/_XOOM/EqualTime/issues.html - --- Cradle of Crime Big government "provides the rationalizations a criminal needs... Statists and criminals are, ultimately, after the same things: your life, your money, your property, and your freedom." Go to: http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/EqualTime/a1010-fh.html - --- Visit our perspectives section for other news and editorials on issues concerning the People of this country. Go to: http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/EqualTime/perspectives.html - --- GET PUBLISHED! Have something to say? Need to vent? That's why we're here! * Send us your opinion, commentary, or full-length article. * Write a Letter to the Editor. * Send a comment, question, or suggestion. Send an e-mail to: EqualTime@freedom.usa.com or just click here: mailto:EqualTime@freedom.usa.com - --- We hope you enjoy this week's news, views, and reviews. Until next time... Know someone who might enjoy Equal Time? (What about someone who needs to hear a new perspective!) Help support our cause and forward this e-mail along to a friend. - --- EQUAL TIME is a free online publication to promote a society with limited government, American liberties, personal responsibility, and traditional values. To better understand our purpose, read our premier article, Worthy Principles, at: http://members.xxoom.com/_XOOM/EqualTime/a1000.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:24:34 -0700 From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Mind-Altering Psychiatric Drug Control, NOT gun control! (fwd) Any more I just assume these are originated by scientologists (sue me). Fortunately I'm -this- -close- to having enough win32 PERL down that I'll be able to auto flush anything with "psych" and "drug" in it. Folks, humans are responsible for their actions. Lets all say that again together: "humans are responsible for their actions." The Valium didn't kill those kids, the Alcohol (specifically warned against on the label of the valium) didn't kill those kids, the gun didn't kill those kids. Those kids were killed (possibly murdered) by their mother. All the BS public defender dodges aren't gonna change the facts. Boyd Bill Vance wrote: > > On Aug 28, Dave Wiegand wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > Hello Fellow RKBAers! > > Some of you who can stomach the socialist garbage that's printed in the > newspapers may have noticed the AP story recently about a "killer mom" in > Southern California who killed her four young sons with a gun. Susan > Eubanks' attorney, Vince Garcia, "contends that Ms. Eubanks shot the > children because her judgment was clouded by too much alcohol and Valium." > > Score another one for violence caused by mind-altering psychiatric drugs. > And score another propaganda item for those who want to restrict your > alienable right of self defense with a firearm. These two issues feed off > one another. There is ample evidence advocates for the psychiatric industry > and gun control are the same group. > > It might be noted that Ms. Eubanks was not violent and was a "good mother > for 14 years until she suffered work-related injuries that led to her > addiction to pain-killers" and to alcohol, and psychiatric drugs. > Psychiatrists who have communicated to me have indicated that yes, they HAVE > noted increased aggressive and assaultive behavior in those who were > prescribed psychotropic drugs, but justify continuing use of the drugs as an > acceptable risk. Acceptable risk? > > They do not want to admit that their patients exhibited NO violent behavior > before drugs, that the drugs CAUSE the violence, but continue to parrot the > drug company "party line" that these "patients" should "continue their meds" > to keep from becoming violent. Why not look for some solution other than > drugs and JUST NOT TAKE DRUGS? All the while, gun control advocates wait > with baited breath for another "patient" on psychiatric drugs to commit a > criminal violent act involving firearms so they can promote their gun > grabbing agenda. Another related (the same?) group wait too so they can > lobby for funds to lock up and give special "treatment" to those "mental > patients" driven into criminal acts by psychiatric drugs. And the > psychiatric drug lords laugh all the way to the bank. You think illegal > drugs is big business? How about the LEGAL business getting millions hooked > on psychiatric drugs! > > Taking away your firearms and taking psychiatric drugs BOTH accomplish the > same thing. They both render a person less able to cause, less dangerous to > the environment (AND less dangerous to un-ethical politicians and corrupt > governments), and more susceptible to the "social control" the political > elitist so dearly loves. The motivation of those who advocate gun control > and getting people on psychiatric drugs is the same, namely, fear. Fear > that they will be found out. And for what? For crimes perhaps, but > certainly found out for less than ethical actions they committed and > justified in achieving their coveted position. > > Want to fight them? Advocate the truth for one thing. For another, find > and expose their crimes, (or get them to admit to them and recant), their > little dirty dealings, and their hypocrisy (like Perata's CCW or Feinstein's > full-auto toting bodyguards or shady dealings - you'll find them. Ask > Saundra Duffy, GOP hopeful for Congress in the Bay Area.) > > Hasn't anyone noted that those politicians who push the hardest for > measures, like psychiatric clinics in schools, mental health insurance > "parity", and expanded prescription privileges for psychologists, are the > SAME group who fight the hardest to take our guns? Do the names Stark, > Perata, Aroner, Thompson, Feinstein, Boxer, and more sound familiar? They > ought too. They are some of those who bray the hardest about "guns that > serve no purpose other than to kill." For them it's OK for "public > servant" law enforcement goons to tote these "killer tools" but not the > responsible private citizen. Who is governing who here? AND, this gang > pushes madly to promote psychiatric drug use! > > A philosopher I admire once wrote something like "Support a government [and > politicians} that work for the good of all the people." That doesn't sound > at all like the bunch listed above. If you haven't figured out that there > IS a connection between psychiatric drug use and your RKBA freedoms, you > haven't been paying attention. > > "Guns don't kill. Criminals and people turned into criminals by > mind-altering psychiatric drugs kill!" > > Firearm Owners! Do NOT take mind-altering psychiatric drugs! > > Flame me if you like, but before you do, please check your facts. And, if > you have a vested interest in continuing to push psychiatric drugs, don't > bother screaming to me. You need to search YOUR conscience first. What > have YOU been up to? I appreciate rational argument better. > > RKBA FREEDOM! > David F. Wiegand > DFWiegand@email.msn.com > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #275 *************************