From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #281 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, September 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 281 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Sep 99 22:51:09 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Tangential attack on Brady? (fwd) On Sep 16, Don Cline wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Goodyear, Arizona (near Phoenix) When my employer handed around the government form requiring employees to prove they have a right to work in this country, I looked it over, noted that according to the Privacy Act Notice thereon their request for that information was "authorized" by (some U.S. Title Code Section). I went and read the cited U.S. Title Code Section. Then I wrote a letter to the Immigration & Naturalization Service pointing out that the section cited did nothing but make an illegal alien "illegal". In other words, it does not authorize a damned thing with regard to invasions of my privacy. I therefore informed the Immigration & Naturalization Service, cc'd to the Border Patrol, that if they thought I was an illegal alien, they should come out here and place me under arrest. Failing probable cause to do that, they should mind their own business and stop trying to intimidate me and others into waiving our right to privacy. I sent copies of the letter to the INS and the Border Patrol by snail mail and by e-mail. I stapled the letter original to the not-completed government form, handed it back to my employer, and told him to file it and be sure and provide government with it if they came calling. Strange ... I STILL haven't heard from government. At 08:10 PM 9/15/99 -0500, you wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >More power to them! I'm getting d*mn tired of proving I'm an >American citizen every time some conglomerate buys out my company. >M( >_________________________ >Still trying to figure out when it's >safe to go to sleep, >This is your old pal, >Jim >- -----Original Message----- >From: C. D. Tavares >To: Firearms and Politics >Cc: Mass. Firearms List >Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 7:25 PM >Subject: Tangential attack on Brady? > > >>Excerpted from the January LP News (yes, I'm catching up on my >>mail): >> >>Libertarian attorney Walker Chandler intends to file suit against >>the provisions of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 >>that require Americans to show identification and proof of >>citizenship before getting a job. >> >>The Libertarian Party is serving as the "employer entity" in whose >>name the suit will be filed. The LP is required to follow IRCA and >>faces criminal charges for noncompliance, giving it legal standing. >> >>The employment verification fails constitutional muster, said >>Chandler, because it "presupposes one's guilt" if a potential >>employee doesn't fill out a government form. "The main >>constitutional infirmity of IRCA is that it places the burden of >>proof on the employee." >> >>"If this case is successful, the exact same reasoning will be >>applied to the Brady Bill. There, Congress declared that every gun >>purchaser who doesn't fill out the Brady form is guilty of >>violating the Gun Control Act of 1968," he said. >> >>Chandler shot to national prominence in 1997 when he won a Supreme >>Court case that overturned (8-1) a Georgia state law mandating drug >>tests for political candidates. >>-- >> >>Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares | >>RKBA! > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 for non-commercial use > >iQA/AwUBN+BDcAZDFUc8Ys93EQL1OwCdFIZb2DjEuPGCELLT1AVo9ZlHDr4An0+P >TwsiMwTzI4RlgOYcONLcLDtL >=NC+3 >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - -- Don Cline Homepage: http://www.mindspring.com/~frdmftr - --------------------------------------------- The Right to Keep and Bear Arms brought about The Parliamentary Revolution The Magna Carta The American Revolution The world's first and only nation of liberty. Without it you are naught but a feudal serf. EXERCISE your Right to Keep and Bear Arms or KNEEL BEFORE YOUR MASTER. - --------------------------------------------- RKBA! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99 16:34:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: History of Bill of Rights now online (fwd) On Sep 17, Rae Starr wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ------- Blind-Carbon-Copy cc: starr@rand.org Subject: History of Bill of Rights now online (fwd) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 99 15:24:03 PDT From: Rae Starr Occasionally, issues of Constitutional original intent have arisen here. The following website might be relevant to some here as primary source data on the legislative history of the Bill of Rights in the U.S. (To the extent that you trust the transcriber.) Some other noteworthy features linked at the site: http://www.constitution.org/bor/sources.htm, It appears that bold items are provisions that passed as worded, and non-bold items are provisions that failed as worded. For example, the right to keep and bear arms passed, as worded; but the right to hunt and fish failed, as worded. http://www.constitution.org/afp.htm Text of some of the Anti-Federalist Papers (Federal Farmer, etc.). http://www.constitution.org/elliot.htm Table of Contents to Elliot's Debates, including an index of names: one source for identifying framers were who ratified the Federal Constitution in certain states. http://www.constitution.org/dfc/dfc_0000.htm Text of Madison's notes of the debates in the federal Convention. http://www.shsw.wisc.edu/publications/books/ratification_constitution.html Encyclopedic: "The Documentary History of the Ratification of the Constitution." (Alas, only a reference to a hardcopy, purchased series. But another possible source of framer material at the state level.) Side note: one source dates the adoption of the Bill of Rights to the Constitution on Dec. 15, 1791. Rae Starr - - ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:00:10 -0500 Reply-To: Free Speech Discussion Sender: Free Speech Discussion From: Stephen Smith Subject: History of Bill of Rights now online (fwd) To: AMEND1-L@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Content-Length: 1857 Thought this site might be of interest to some on the list. And Happy Constitution Day! Regards to the former Fourth Amendment as well. Stephen Smith University of Arkansas - - - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:17:55 -0800 From: Jon Roland To: justice@scn.org Subject: History of Bill of Rights now online On this Constitution Day, commemorating the completion of the work of the Federal Convention in Philadelphia in 1787, and the proposal of the Constitution to the States for ratification, we announce the online publication of the Documentary History of the Bill of Rights, which traces the evolution of the Bill of Rights, from the English Bill of Rights, through state bills of rights, through the amendments proposed by the state ratification conventions, through the versions of the bill of rights as they passed from James Madison, through the Select Committee, to each house of Congress. to the final version that was adopted by Congress and proposed to the States for ratification. It is at http://www.constitution.org/dhbr.htm By collecting all these documents together on one web site with a chart tracing the elements of various bills of rights proposals through the development and ratification process, the student will have a convenient way to examine how each clause of our present Bill of Rights came into be worded the way it is, and which provisions were not adopted, mainly because they were thought to be obvious or unnecessary. - - - --Jon =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 09/17/99 Time: 05:02:19 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org =================================================================== - - ------- End of Forwarded Message [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 99 09:39:46 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [2ndamendmentnews] Anti-Gun Hysteria, Go on the Offensive Part 2 (fwd) On Sep 18, Weldon Clark wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Weldon Clark By Russ Howard - For me, deja vu is a good way to describe the climate since the Columbine massacre. After the 1989 Stockton schoolyard massacre, many firearms rights activists were horrified to see that NRA and the gun industry - to the extent that they were not missing in action - were engaged in active appeasement and pre-emptive surrender. Bill Ruger, for example - now an official NRA "hero" =96 proposed magazine size limits and cut special deals to get his "sporting" guns exempted from the Roos-Roberti "assault weapon" ban. 2nd Amendment supporters had to endure the TV spectacle of NRA's lobbyist testifying that NRA couldn't support the ban because it included too many "legitimate sporting and hunting guns." The anti-gunners heard him, reduced their opposition by removing some guns from the ban, and passed it by one vote. Chess anyone? Given the JFK, RFK, & MLK assassinations, the Texas Tower shootings, the McDonalds Massacre, etc., pro-freedom activists have known for decades that the anti-self-defense crowd intended to use high-profile gun crimes as pretenses to gradually disarm all decent citizens in America. As an NRA member since 1979, I was astonished that NRA - an organization that raises and spends 150 million dollars a year - seemed so unprepared, defensive, and even apologetic after such crimes. They acted as if each massacre was unique, as if there would never be another one. At best, the people who were so handsomely paid to be our best professional public speakers were like deer in the headlights, as if no good arguments had ever been written against gun control. Why couldn't they be prepared? Into that vacuum in 1989, dozens of grassroots groups sprang up nationwide. I was involved in one of them, Californians Against Corruption, the goal of which was to oust one-by-one the politicians who violated their oath to defend the Constitution and passed laws that left victims disarmed and vulnerable to crime and mass public shootings. CAC ended the political careers of both Roos and Roberti, and the "pain" message dried up California's anti-gun torrent for several years. Ultimately I was nominated to run for the Board of Directors of the NRA, on which I served for over two years with the goal of doing my part to help reform NRA and build up grassroots. Reform proposals were fought tooth & nail by staff and either killed or "implemented" in a such a way as to guarantee their failure. For example, I developed a modest board policy resolution to put an end to NRA's "thing" for giving "A" ratings and awards to anti-gun politicians. Even though NRA would still have been able to give them B ratings, money, and endorsements, NRA's "Winning Team" fought the reform as if it would've been the end of the world. It would not have been the end of the world, but it would've been the end of the gravy train for sellout Republicans who didn't want to ever have to take a stand and earn their grades. Staff, as usual, revealed contempt for membership, arguing that if NRA couldn't give phony grades, members were too unsophisticated to volunteer for lesser-of-two-evil Republicans. As other reform-minded directors discovered, and as many of you now know, NRA's ruling junta has no intention to allow itself to be reformed. The reformers were purged in an illegal coup d'etat lead by staff; by self-dealing, Feather bedding directors; by "moderate" country club & Hollywood sport shooters; by Republican Party operatives; and by the vendors who make millions of dollars a year bleeding the membership white. Local "activists" who had cozied up to NRA staff were put up to lying about reform-minded NRA board members in a smear campaign through the national "conservative" media. In at least one case one of the smearers, known in activist circles as a "thug", was immediately hired by NRA as an apparent reward for his dirty work. One of the much-vaunted changes that staff did supposedly accept was a quick response team that would be prepared to deal with situations like Columbine. Well, here we are 10 years after Stockton. "Going Postal" has entered the lexicon, and massacres have gone from a once-a-decade tragedy to annual, quarterly, weekly. Yet NRA and the gun industry are still, seemingly, unable or unwilling to deal with it. If the "Quick Response" to Columbine had been any better it would've been pathetic. Rather than taking the offensive and explaining how gun control facilitates public shootings, the annual meeting was curtailed as if we had something to be ashamed of. Worse yet, Charlton Heston and Wayne LaPierre both issued high-profile public endorsements of gun control, including the very same unconstitutional "gun free" school zones laws that help enable such massacres. LaPierre also reiterated his support for instacheck, effectively gun owner registration, flouting standing board policy that requires him to look for an alternative that doesn't involve trusting the Waco Killers not to keep the records illegally. And, of course, he again endorsed "Project Exile," the anti-gunners' dream come true of a Federal Gun Gulag System. NRA's lobbyist, Steve Helsley, said that California's latest landmark gun confiscation bills "weren't serious gun control" and we shouldn't bother fighting them. With exceptions, the gun rights community seems at best stuck in perpetual defensive mode. The anti-gunners - the very people whose anti-self-defense policies, media & video game violence, and permissive parenting theories facilitate massacres like Columbine - are allowed to accuse us of being responsible for them. Suppose you knew a man was planning to murder people and frame you for the crime. Would you go to the police first and accuse him of murder? Or would you let him go to the police first? Would you content yourself with trying to prove that you didn't do it? Or would you finally accuse him of murder and prove it? Would you let him frame you over and over and over again, defending yourself but never accusing? Or would you finally wake up, start going to the police first, warning them, and saying, "I told you so" after each murder? If you answered no, yes, yes, no, yes, no, then You're The NRA. Whatever the reason, NRA effectively functions as a sterile bee queen, leading the hive into oblivion. Millions of gun owners trust and look to NRA for policy guidance, giving NRA the power to gradually redefine what it means to be pro-gun, and which gun controls are "reasonable" and tolerable. If Wayne LaPierre and Charlton Heston say we need to help build the new American police state, most gun owners will learn to accept it. So what do we do? I for one will not donate to NRA until the entire current Board and top Staff is ousted and fired respectively. But what about in the meantime? Join and support other organizations that aren't selling us out. For example, I recently rejoined JPFO. Once again, as in 1989, new groups are being formed to fill the vacuum. As before, a common theme of these startups is not only preparedness, but also preparedness to go on the offensive. There are many advantages to being on the offensive. One is that it puts OUR assertions, facts, and allegations under discussion, as opposed to the enemy's: Make the enemies of freedom refute OUR accusations for a change. One of these new groups is called Citizens of America. A couple of weeks ago I attended a small presentation for Citizens of America, founded largely by leaders of the Lawyers Second Amendment Society along with a seasoned, successful, creative, pro-gun advertising writer named Jim Houck. Houck was the one who came up with a highly successful guerrilla ad campaign, which had gun activists chalking outlines of crime scene bodies on sidewalks. Inside the body is chalked "another unarmed victim" with a phone number to join or donate. COA's goal is to do hard-hitting, below-the-belt radio, TV, and guerrilla advertising designed to make people think twice about giving up their right to effective self-defense; to associate gun control with racism, genocide, and victimization; and to make supporting gun control as socially unacceptable as joining the Ku Klux Klan. From what I've seen of the ads that've already been developed, it will work, and may very likely be quickly self-funding. But it's going to need some serious seed money to get off the ground. Do yourself a favor and send them a check, even if it's only $5 or $10. I'm sending in $100 now, but I'm also issuing a "100-squared match" to raise $10,000: When 99 people on this list e-mail me back with a pledge to send in $100, I'll forward the e-mails to COA and send in another $100 too. My e-mail address is russ.howard@usa.net COA's address is: PMB 447 2118 WILSHIRE BLVD. SANTA MONICA, CA 90403 Please give generously. Russ Howard P.S. Please note that the opinions expressed above are my own and do not reflect the views of COA. I'm including an e- mail from COA below. *********************** Citizens of America "We're In Charge" Dear armed Americans, Advertising Creative Director, Jim Houck, working with the Lawyers Second Amendment Society (LSAS, www.rightguide.com/Links/lsas.htm), has formed a non-profit corporation for the sole purpose of giving all American firearms owners, big and small, a way to strike back and strike back hard against the Rights Killers. After repeated attempts to work with NRA and GOA, Mr. Houck made the decision, along with the LSAS, to form an elite commando-style organization in order to bypass bureaucracy and time-consuming political red tape and get into the fight. The NRA and GOA have a role in this fight and are doing all they can and are to be credited with such. But there is an overwhelming need for an operational group which can strike fast, strike hard and strike without fear of political reprisal. This is such a group. Every dollar received will go into extremely aggressive advertising, TV, print, radio, outdoor and guerilla, with a single purpose, to destroy those who are tampering with 2nd Amendment freedom. This campaign will not be apologetic, it will not play fair, it will hit below the belt whenever the opportunity presents itself, it will not take prisoners. In short, it will be very aggressive and very effective. There are some people out there who would like to get into the fight, but for career reasons or political reasons cannot. Here is your chance. There are many who would like to get into the fight, but have no way of doing so. Now you can take a swing directly at the teeth of people like Chuck Schumer, impeached-President Bill Clinton, Sarah Brady, you name it. The campaign will be created and managed by Creative Director, Jim Houck, a career advertising professional who has done work for bluechip clients like Toyota, DIESEL Jeans, Mitusibishi, Procter & Gamble, Sony, The Miami Heat Professional Basketball Team and Sunglass Hut International, to name a few. The company has been created by and will be managed by attorney Dan Schultz of the LSAS. Creative campaigns are in progress and will be operational as soon as a budget has been amassed and media buys can be made. Please make copies and forward to all concerned parties. Send your checks (NO CASH, WE'RE PLAYING BY THE BOOK AND EXPECT AUDITS AND CLAIMS OF THEFT FROM THE RIGHTS KILLERS) immediately... [Write your check to Citizens of America.] Going to war, Jim Houck Creative Director, Los Angeles sazebra@earthlink.net **************************** The 2ndAmendmentNews Team The way to protect your own rights is to protect the rights of others. Our right to own and use firearms is under attack. We receive e-mail addresses from various sources that represent the recipients as receptive to our timely, low-to- moderate volume gun-rights-related alerts (generally no more than weekly, never more than daily, depending on legislative and other circumstances). Occasionally recipients turn out to be not interested, and we remove them immediately with our sincere apology for any inconvenience. If you wish to be removed send an e mail to 2ndamendmentnews- owner@onelist.com and include "unsubscribe". If you know anyone who would appreciate these alerts, please let us know and we'll enroll them on a trial basis. Also, feel free to forward our alerts. If you've received this as a forward and wish to subscribe please send a reply to me at wh.clark@cwix.com or behanna@fast.net Cordially Yours, The 2ndAmendmentNews Team 2ndAmendmentNews is published by volunteer activists who support the full original individual rights intent of the 2nd Amendment and oppose any appeasement on gun rights. The moderators include Chris Behanna, Weldon Clark (an NRA director) and Steve Cicero. If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. -- Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776. - --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- New!! Free E-mail @mail.com, @usa.com, @engineer.com and more! Mail.com makes it easy to set up a free, personalized e-mail address that you can access anytime and anywhere. http://www.onelist.com/ad/mailcom1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Sep 99 09:40:45 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [2ndamendmentnews] Legal Defenses Against Gun Confiscation Part 1 (fwd) On Sep 18, Weldon Clark wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Weldon Clark We are offering methods besides writing your Congressman. You may want to save this as reference material. The following is applicable to California and other People's Republic states such as Connecticut, New Jersey, and Maryland. Coming will be other articles on the "how to" defend yourself against the tyranny that is coming: Running Campaigns, Unregistering Your Gun, and Effective Lobbying. Just Say, "Go Away." Rights are like muscles, you must exercise them or they gradually weaken. The following information is provided as a public service by The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. Disclaimer: The following is not legal advice but is for informational purposes only. You should use your own judgment and/or consult an attorney before deciding what to do. August 20, 1999 The Attorney General of the State of California ("AG") is embarking on a massive effort to confiscate firearms (so-called "assault weapons") in the possession of United States citizens residing in the State of California. You may see evidence of this at http://www.sksbuyback.org. The Attorney General, Bill Lockyer, plans to have his agents attempt to trick the citizens into voluntarily handing over these firearms to them. Luckily for the citizens, they have protections from such trickery. You need to know how to assert your rights if you want to defeat this trickery, whether in this instance or in the future as the government becomes even more depraved as it tries to take away more and more of our inalienable rights. Following is some information about your rights that the government hopes you don't know. Our right to keep and bear arms is one of those inalienable rights "endowed by [our] Creator," as set forth in the Declaration of Independence. The GunTruths.com web site (http://www.GunTruths.com) provides ample evidence that our right to keep and bear arms is an inalienable, individual right retained by the people and protected and guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. We must use the Bill of Rights to preserve and protect our rights. We must not voluntarily cede our inalienable rights to the government. Inalienable rights, by their nature, cannot be given, or taken, away. The AG hopes that the good citizens residing in California will voluntarily cede their right to keep and bear arms. The government of California is embarking on a test of the citizens residing in California to see whether they will voluntarily turn in their SKS Sporters and register their "assault weapons." If the good citizens residing in California voluntarily turn in their SKS Sporters, and register these other weapons voluntarily, the AG will have achieved its goal at relatively little cost, and will have learned that even the gun- owning citizens are weak and ignorant of their rights. The ultimate goal of the current government of the State of California is to slowly, incrementally, confiscate all firearms of military pattern so that the citizens will no longer have the means to be the "well regulated militia, necessary to the security of a free State," referenced in the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. The AG hopes that the good citizens residing in California will not know, and assert, the rights their forefathers fought and died for. The AG hopes it will be able to intimidate the good people into voluntarily turning in, or registering, their weapons by threatening them with felony prosecutions, and jail sentences. These threats are being communicated on the internet, in letters to selected individuals and through advertisements on the radio and through other media. What The Government Hopes Won't Happen What if the good citizens did the following upon receiving a knock on their doors? The citizen calls through the door, "Who is it?" The reply is, "I'm police officer/deputy sheriff/special agent Smith." The citizen replies, "Go away. I'm not interested in spending any of my time talking to you. Get off my property." That should do it. The agent of the government might be a little more persistent, but if the good citizen understands, and asserts, his rights against the government, the above scenario is all that should happen. Why? Because no citizen is required to talk to anyone from the government unless he wants to. You have the right to be left alone. Unless the government has probable cause to suspect you of a crime, you are free to be left alone. You do not even have to produce "identity papers." Yet. The Fifth Amendment protects the citizen's right to be free from incriminating himself in a criminal case. What The Government Hopes Will Happen Upon knocking on your door, and you opening it, the police officer/deputy sheriff/special agent will say, "I'm Officer Smith and this is my partner Officer Jones. We understand you are in possession of an illegal assault weapon and we're here to retrieve it." They may wave papers in your face, such as a record of sale. You say, "Oh, well in that case, come on in. I'll show you where it is. I figured you'd find me." Then they will confiscate your firearm and arrest you. Later, when your attorney files a motion to suppress the evidence before your trial, the judge will deny the motion on the grounds that you volunteered the evidence to the police. You will then be convicted of being in possession of an "illegal" firearm. Other Things You May Want To Think About If you are in possession of a so-called "illegal" SKS Sporter or "assault weapon," you should consider purchasing an inexpensive dictation tape recorder and an inexpensive video camera, and keeping it near your front door. When the agents from the government (and they will come in pairs, as they are cowardly) come to your door, you should be in a position to gather evidence of their trickeries. They will try to trick you. For example, they may say, "We know you have an illegal firearm in your house. We want it. It is illegal for you to have it. You must let us in, pursuant to the new law." And, as mentioned above, they may say they have "evidence" that a certain weapon was sold to you. One response would be the same as above, "Go away. I'm not interested in spending any of my time talking to you. Get off my property. I'm recording this." Tell them you are recording this event. That will get their attention. You may want to set up a system whereby you can speed dial your phone to a neighbor who can also be videotaping the officers outside your door. Another alternative response could by, "Slide your search warrant under my door." The government agents will almost certainly not have a search warrant, provided you have been very circumspect in the recent past about what firearms you own. Why, then, would it be almost certain that the government agents will not have a search warrant? Because, according to the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution, "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Did you know that Article 1 of the California Constitution is a Declaration of Rights, and that section 13 of the Declaration of Rights says: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable seizures and searches may not be violated; and a warrant may not issue except on probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons and things to be seized?" (The full text of the California Constitution can be found at http://www.ca.gov/s/govt/govcode.html. You must ask yourself this question, "What judge is going to issue a search warrant to search my home for an allegedly illegal firearm, if I haven't had anyone in my home recently who might be a snitch, who would be able to say under oath, 'I saw this man in possession of an illegal firearm of a certain type, and it was stored in this location in his house and I saw it this morning?'" If the only "evidence" the government has is that months earlier you purchased a certain weapon, that in itself would only tell a judge that on that date you may have been in possession of that firearm. In the meantime, you could have disposed of it (you could have thrown it away in your trash), you might have dismantled it, thrown it in a lake, taken it out of state, etc., etc. If you have not advertised to anyone your possession of your "illegal" firearms, it is highly unlikely that the government will have sufficient evidence that probable cause exists that you are in possession of illegal contraband (that is, that you are in possession of an "illegal" firearm). Thus, you must ask yourself whether you are able to take the small risk that you are wrong. Even if the government agent has obtained a search warrant, after complying with the search, you may challenge the legal sufficiency of the search warrant. The government will have to sustain its burden of proof that the required showing of probable cause was actually based on credible, recent evidence. This will be a heavy burden, because in every case the eyewitness claiming that you were in possession of the "illegal" firearm would have to make a showing that your possession was close in time to the issuance of the warrant and that the eyewitness was in a position to "particularly describ[e] the place to be searched and the persons and things to be seized" according to the dictates of the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution and section 13 of the Declaration of Rights of the California Constitution. In every case, the government will only have reason to suspect that you are in possession of the "illegal" firearm based upon some information they received many months ago. It is just as likely that you are no longer in possession of the "illegal" firearm as it is that it is still in your possession; therefore, without more, there is no probable cause to believe you are currently violating the law. Since you may not be required to answer any of the government's questions about whether you are in possession of an "illegal" firearm, the government has no way of finding out whether its suspicions are correct. If you really want to have some fun, and burn up some of the government agents' time (taking away time they might otherwise use to try to trick other citizens of their firearms), you may want to do the following: When they identify themselves outside your door, slide a Public Servant Questionnaire under the door to each of them, and tell them you'd be happy to talk to them if they will answer each of the questions set forth on the form. You may get a copy of the Public Servant Questionnaire at http://www.GunTruths.com (click on the cartridge above "I Believe In Self Defense" and then scroll down to the "Get Involved" heading). If you do this, it is doubtful they will continue to talk to you. Probably, they will have been told not to waste their time on citizens who seem to understand their rights and they will leave and go to the next name and address on their list. Assuming they do fill out the form completely, you may want to then ask them whether they are armed with loaded firearms. If they say yes, you should tell them that you will let them into your house to talk with them only if they will return without their firearms. Then you should also tell them that you'd like to first obtain some witnesses to eyewitness the meeting in your home, and further explain that you'd like to have them sit in front of your pre-positioned video camera and near your tape recorder. If they tell you that you don't have the right to audiotape and videotape them, they will be lying. Remember, these are your public servants. Then let them come into your house, unarmed, to ask your permission to answer some questions. Let them ask whatever questions they choose. In response to each, simply say, "I choose not to answer that question." Or you might ask them, in response to every question they ask, whether you are required to answer the question. Again, you'll have this all on audio tape and videotape and have at least one witness. When they are finished, politely show them the door. Use your imagination. Another Right We Have At Our Disposal That The Government Fears Under Article VI of the United States Constitution, and Sections 15 and 16 of the Declaration of Rights in the California Constitution, all defendants in criminal prosecutions shall enjoy the right to a speedy trial, by an impartial jury of twelve jurors. The AG does not want to be faced with overcoming the foregoing hurdles, plus having to convince all twelve jurors on a jury that you ought to go to jail just because you were in possession of what just a few months earlier had been perfectly legal to own. The AG fears fully informed jurors who know that they have the power to judge both the law and the facts, and who will be willing to acquit you of the victimless crime of possessing an "illegal" firearm that was formerly perfectly legal to own. You should learn more about the Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA), which is on the Links page at The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. web site, http://www.thelsas.org. The Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution is short, to the point and written in English. The Fourth Amendment is easy to understand. The Attorney General hopes you don't understand any of your rights. Don't let them trick you. If the first one hundred attempts at trickery fail, the government will give up. Don't be fooled. Learn your rights and exercise them! Disclaimer: The foregoing is not legal advice but is for informational purposes only. You should use your own judgment or consult an attorney before deciding what to do. **************************** The 2ndAmendmentNews Team The way to protect your own rights is to protect the rights of others. Our right to own and use firearms is under attack. This list was created in a hurry due to the emergency presented by anti-gun politicians and the media dancing in the blood of those who died in the Colorado massacre. We receive e-mail addresses from various sources that represent the recipients as receptive to our timely, low-to- moderate volume gun-rights-related alerts (generally no more than weekly, never more than daily, depending on legislative and other circumstances). Occasionally recipients turn out to be not interested, and we remove them immediately with our sincere apology for any inconvenience. If you wish to be removed send an e mail to 2ndamendmentnews- owner@onelist.com and include "unsubscribe". If you know anyone who would appreciate these alerts, please let us know and we'll enroll them on a trial basis. Also, feel free to forward our alerts. If you've received this as a forward and wish to subscribe please send a reply to me at wh.clark@cwix.com or behanna@fast.net Cordially Yours, The 2ndAmendmentNews Team 2ndAmendmentNews is published by volunteer activists who support the full original individual rights intent of the 2nd Amendment and oppose any appeasement on gun rights. The moderators include Chris Behanna, Weldon Clark (an NRA director) and Steve Cicero. - --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- New!! Free E-mail @mail.com, @usa.com, @engineer.com and more! Mail.com makes it easy to set up a free, personalized e-mail address that you can access anytime and anywhere. http://www.onelist.com/ad/mailcom1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #281 *************************