From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #293 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, October 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 293 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 99 09:56:55 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fwd: Action Alert Vote To Come Next Week] (fwd) On Oct 17, Joe Waldron wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Former NRA Director Weldon Clark said it better than I could. Read and act, please. It's time to call our critters again! Joe Waldron Weldon Clark wrote: > > Action Alert Vote To Come Next Week > > ***************************************** > Call your Congressman and Senators, and the offices of > these so-called Republican leaders, and complain. Defeat > the Juvenile Justice Bill. > > You can call your representatives at the following toll-free > numbers US Capitol Switchboard 800-456-1414 You can > also call them using the Capitol Switchboard at 202-224- > 3121. > > Here is the URL for Congressional Telephone Directory: > http://clerkweb.house.gov/mbrcmtee/members/teledir/members/congdir.htm > Here's an e-mail link to Congress. http://in-search-of.org/ > http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ > http://www.gunowners.org/mailerx.html > > To spread the word call Rush Limbaugh at 800-282-2882 and > callers may call in from 12 noon to 3PM EST, M-F > MARYLAND RESIDENTS and all others who want to see > how a "peoples republic" state operates see > www.2ndamendment.net > > For legislative updates contact www.nealknox.com and go to > "Scripts from the Firearms Coalition Legislative Update Line" > ***************************** > > >From Neal Knox Tell your Congressman and Senators "We > do not want any legislation." Either Juvenile Justice or > Campaign Finance. > > Excerpts from Tanya K. Metaksa's Article > > THERE WILL BE A VOTE. It's now time to contact your > senators and your representative. They need to hear from > every law-abiding gun owner and every person who supports > the Bill of Rights. It's not just about trigger locks, magazine > bans, or gun shows. It's about the right to purchase, to own, > to transport, or to use the gun of your choice. If you fail to > make that call, the Washington Post will be ecstatic to > influence the outcome. > *************** > Waco feed back Attorney needs information. > Keep up the good work in forwarding anything that might > prove helpful. Please put out in your newsletter and ask > people to contact me who know of any information relating to > the military involvement at Waco, or other information related > to the initial attack on 28 Mar 93 or the final assault on 19 Apr > 93. Regards, Jim@Brannon.com > **************** > > Action Alert From GOA (Paraphrased by Russ Howard > with some elaboration by Weldon Clark) > > "House Republican leaders will press ahead with new gun > restrictions despite a lack of cooperation from Democrats and > resistance by Republican conservatives." > -- The Washington Times, Oct 13, 1999 > > Oct 13, 1999 - Negotiators soon plan to produce > "compromise" gun control. New restrictions will be part of a > much larger juvenile crime bill passed in each house earlier > this year. Republicans Hatch & Hyde hope to bring up the > anti-gun bill for conference vote as early as today, including > the following controls: > > * A likely end to gun shows. ...allows gun shows to be taxed > without limits ... draconian regulations & harassment > inspections with no practical limitations. > > (* The bill contains provisions to follow private sales at gun > shows. This produces records that can be used against you > in the future. It is a registration of the sale of firearms. > Registration is the one thing that makes confiscation > possible. The only reason the anti gun politicians can steal > the guns is that they have a record of firearms ownership. > GET BETWEEN THESE RECORDS AND YOUR > GOVERNMENTS ANY WAY YOU CAN. - Weldon Clark) > > * A ban on importing high-capacity magazines... > > * A "gun tax" that forces every handgun buyer to buy a "lock- > up your safety" device. Republicans DeLay & Doolittle have > led House opposition to the anti-gun provisions. Senator Bob > Smith has promised to filibuster any "compromise" that > contains one iota of gun control. > > Let your legislators hear your opposition to the juvenile crime > bill. See beginning of this post > > Late this week or early next, the Senate will vote on a > filibuster of the anti-gun "campaign finance" bill. The House > version outlaws legislative alerts by treating them as > contributions for or against politicians whose votes are > discussed. Candidate ratings would also be outlawed. > Sponsors have deleted anti-freedom provisions from the > Senate bill, but passage would result in a conference with the > House bill, bringing both back to life. Ask your senators to > vote against shutting down the filibuster of S1593 [McCain]. > > **************************** > The 2ndAmendmentNews Team > The way to protect your own rights is to protect the rights of > others. Our right to own and use firearms is under attack. > This list was created in a hurry due to the emergency > presented by anti-gun politicians and the media dancing in > the blood of those who died in the Colorado massacre. > > We receive e-mail addresses from various sources that > represent the recipients as receptive to our timely, low-to- > moderate volume gun-rights-related alerts (generally no more > than weekly, never more than daily, depending on legislative > and other circumstances). Occasionally recipients turn out to > be not interested, and we remove them immediately with our > sincere apology for any inconvenience. If you wish to be > removed send an e mail to 2ndamendmentnews- > owner@onelist.com and include "unsubscribe". > > If you know anyone who would appreciate these alerts, > please let us know and we'll enroll them on a trial basis. > Also, feel free to forward our alerts. > > If you've received this as a forward and wish to subscribe > please send a reply to me at luz.clark@prodigy.net or > behanna@fast.net > > Cordially Yours, > The 2ndAmendmentNews Team > > 2ndAmendmentNews is published by volunteer activists who > support the full original individual rights intent of the 2nd > Amendment and oppose any appeasement on gun rights. > The moderators include Chris Behanna, Weldon Clark (an > NRA director) and Steve Cicero. > > If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude > better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from > us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down > and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set > lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our > countrymen. -- Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia > State House, August 1, 1776. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 99 20:42:19 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: The KMart petition is closed, your email information deleted (fwd) On Oct 17, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Summary: K-Mart has fired Rosie due to slumping sales, and perfectunion has replaced its Rosie petition with a UPS petition. Get in there and sign it. >Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:57:17 -0700 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: Bill Plein >Subject: The KMart petition is closed, your email information deleted >To all who signed the Kmart petition at PerfectUnion.com: > >This is the LAST email you will receive on this issue. I wanted to >thank you all for participating. As you probably know, Rosie >O'Donnell is no longer doing new ads for KMart. Their revenue was >down the last couple of quarters, in part due to the boycott, which >in part was due to YOUR activism. Thanks! >Please note: A new petition is going online TODAY! As many of you >already know, UPS has changed its policy towards shipping handguns. >They have an internal problem with their employees diverting >handguns and stealing them. In order to reduce this risk, they are >requiring that all handgun shipments be made via Next Day Air, an >expensive shipping option. > >I am leading a boycott of their services. If you are interested, >please see the URL listed below. > >http://perfectunion.com/petitions/Petition_UPS/ > >Thanks again for your prior participation on the Rosie/Kmart >petition, and I'll see you online.... - -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares | RKBA! Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. -- MAO ZEDONG (1938) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 99 20:40:48 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] Fw: The State Of California Is Confiscating Firearms! (fwd) On Oct 17, Albert T. Viar wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ---------- > Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 20:16:04 > From: Albert T. Viar > To: hodag3@rnet.com > Subject: The State Of California Is Confiscating Firearms! > > > Warning to all, > > The State of California is confiscating firearms with a Supreme Court = ruling > related to the Roberti-Roos Measure. > See http://www.calnra.org and > calnra.org plaintiffs.html for the gory details. > Also available on the calnra site are copies of the actual letters = of > confiscation now being received by California residents. > > Albert T. Viar > hodag3@rnet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/slick-d http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:40:01 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: I am giving a talk to the League of Women Voters This Thursday night I am giving a talk AND am part of a panel on the issue of guns. The talk is to the Lincoln/Lancaster League of Women Voters. The other participants will be The Sheriff of Lancaster County, the Police Chief of Lincoln, NE, And a little sweetie from an organization called Nebraskan's for Peace. I need some help! Can anybody give me the founding fathers quotes that surface every once in a while? Also any other 2nd Amendment stuff you think worthwhile. Some material concerning the racist roots of gun control would also be helpful. About a year ago we discussed on a couple of these lists the statistics that show that the cops commit a greater number of injuries on the innocent public using their weapons than do citizens who use theirs. Does anyone still have this stuff? What else can you think of that would be helpful? What about this recent Federal Case in Texas? Also anybody have a review of Halbrook's book on the Freedmens' Act, Fourteenth Amendment, and The Right to Keep and Bear Arms? Help! and Help quickly. I was just asked to do this thing Friday after NRA's "Woman of the Year" backed out. Indeed! How about some stuff on NRA's Three Strikes and Operation Exile? Also what about JPFO stuff and GOA? Come on gang give me some help Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:10:10 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: [tgo-l] I am giving a talk to the League of Women Voters At 07:40 PM 10/18/1999 -0500, larry ball wrote: >From: larry ball I don't know if you are web enable or not, but I'll list a few usefull URLs with tons of good information in useable form. If you arne't web enabled, let me know, ASAP and I'll get some stuff together for you, as I'm sure others will also. Have at 'em :) > >This Thursday night I am giving a talk AND am part of a panel on the >issue of guns. The talk is to the Lincoln/Lancaster League of Women >Voters. The other participants will be The Sheriff of Lancaster County, >the Police Chief of Lincoln, NE, And a little sweetie from an >organization called Nebraskan's for Peace. > >I need some help! Can anybody give me the founding fathers quotes that >surface every once in a while? Also any other 2nd Amendment stuff you >think worthwhile. The most authoritative, yet compact source. Quotes checked for accurracy. http://rkba.org/research/rkba.quotes Or if you are really pressed for time, each of these is shorter, but should be checked for accuracy with the above http://www.public.usit.net/lsparks/quotes.htm > >Some material concerning the racist roots of gun control would also be >helpful. http://rkba.org/research/cramer/cramer-racist ot in a nicer format: http://www.shadeslanding.com/firearms/cramer.racism.html (Paper titled "The Racist Roots of Gun Control", Cramer has his own web site too, I think it might be: (At least a bunch of his stuff is here) http://www.ggnra.org/cramer If you've got PDF capability (Adobe Acrobat) then Cramer's Paper "For defense of Themselves and the State" is at: http://www.ggnra.org/cramer/Ncutdown.pdf A Review of Cramer's book is here: http://www-douzzer.ai.mit.edu:8080/revolution/firearms/laws/us/racism.html > >About a year ago we discussed on a couple of these lists the statistics >that show that the cops commit a greater number of injuries on the >innocent public using their weapons than do citizens who use theirs. >Does anyone still have this stuff? > >What else can you think of that would be helpful? What about this >recent Federal Case in Texas? Emerson case info available here: http://www.potomac-inc.org/emeramic.html and even more is here http://www.potomac-inc.org/index.html Other good compact sources for RKBA/2nd Amendment information, some of it just the sort you are looking for..facts, myths etc is at: http://www.guntruths.com/GunTruths/guntruthscom_home_page.htm http://www.guncite.com/ >Also anybody have a review of Halbrook's book on the Freedmens' Act, >Fourteenth Amendment, and The Right to Keep and Bear Arms? http://members.aol.com/protell/freedman.html >Help! and Help quickly. I was just asked to do this thing Friday after >NRA's "Woman of the Year" backed out. Indeed! > >How about some stuff on NRA's Three Strikes and Operation Exile? Also >what about JPFO stuff and GOA? > >Come on gang give me some help > >Larry Ball >lball@inetnebr.com > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. >Click Here > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Texas-Gun-Owners is at tgo-l@onelist.com. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. > The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:44:07 -0400 From: pukanecz@exchange.vt.edu Subject: RE: I am giving a talk to the League of Women Voters Hello Larry, Thanks for taking on this task. I wish you all the best. Here's a cool article that has some quotes like you wanted. It is also very enlightenting as to the origin of rights and the purpose of the bill of rights and the constitution. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira58.html Thanks again. todddddddddd _VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_VT_ Todd Pukanecz Virginia Tech, CALS & 229 Dist Ed Blacksburg, Virginia ....................................................... "All too often, the Congress thinks there is no end to the good they can do with your money and their brains. It is time for us to put an end to this misguided belief. The Founding Father's vision was for a constitutional republic where the will of the people would be imposed on Washington, not the views of Washington imposed on the people." - -- Sen. John Ashrcroft ~>-----Original Message----- ~>From: larry ball [mailto:lball@inetnebr.com] ~>Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 8:40 PM ~>To: Nebgun; Texgun; Noban; ROC; Plains men ~>Subject: I am giving a talk to the League of Women Voters ~> ~> ~>This Thursday night I am giving a talk AND am part of a panel on the ~>issue of guns. The talk is to the Lincoln/Lancaster League of Women ~>Voters. The other participants will be The Sheriff of ~>Lancaster County, ~>the Police Chief of Lincoln, NE, And a little sweetie from an ~>organization called Nebraskan's for Peace. ~> ~>I need some help! Can anybody give me the founding fathers ~>quotes that ~>surface every once in a while? Also any other 2nd Amendment stuff you ~>think worthwhile. ~> - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 99 10:46:14 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: mail bounces Yesterday afternoon my feed site had a problem and started bouncing mail. If the list or anyone sending personal messages received a bounce msg, then please repost. Thanks. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:36:09 -0700 From: "Steven A. Silver" Subject: Re: I am giving a talk to the League of Women Voters Larry: Go to GunTruths.com, click on the button which says you support the right of self defense, then go to the hyperlink to quotes of the Founding Fathers. It's all there. Steve Silver larry ball wrote: > This Thursday night I am giving a talk AND am part of a panel on the > issue of guns. The talk is to the Lincoln/Lancaster League of Women > Voters. The other participants will be The Sheriff of Lancaster County, > the Police Chief of Lincoln, NE, And a little sweetie from an > organization called Nebraskan's for Peace. > > I need some help! Can anybody give me the founding fathers quotes that > surface every once in a while? Also any other 2nd Amendment stuff you > think worthwhile. > > Some material concerning the racist roots of gun control would also be > helpful. > > About a year ago we discussed on a couple of these lists the statistics > that show that the cops commit a greater number of injuries on the > innocent public using their weapons than do citizens who use theirs. > Does anyone still have this stuff? > > What else can you think of that would be helpful? What about this > recent Federal Case in Texas? > Also anybody have a review of Halbrook's book on the Freedmens' Act, > Fourteenth Amendment, and The Right to Keep and Bear Arms? > > Help! and Help quickly. I was just asked to do this thing Friday after > NRA's "Woman of the Year" backed out. Indeed! > > How about some stuff on NRA's Three Strikes and Operation Exile? Also > what about JPFO stuff and GOA? > > Come on gang give me some help > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > - - -- Steve Silver Attorney at Law: http://www.silver-legal.com/ The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society: http://www.thelsas.org/ Get the TRUTH About Guns: http://www.guntruths.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 99 22:57:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slickplus] > The Showdown on Hwy. 78 (fwd) On Oct 19, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > (OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASE) > > July 1, 1999 was a typical day for most Southern Californians. In San Die= go > =92s North county, 58 year-old Janet Lucero was on the road like thousands= of > others. She never had a thought how she could affect the lives of thousand= s > in just one day. > > Road rage is a typical phenomenon =96 especially on the Golden State=92s c= rowded > thoroughfares. Highway 78 (a major connector freeway between Interstates 5 > and 15) was no exception. Janet was in route to a fair when another woman > wanted to go elsewhere. Two drivers wanting to be in the same spot at the > same time. No collision, just frayed nerves. But this would be different. > Whoever Janet Lucero angered decided to follow her into the parking lot of= a > Burger King restaurant. This is where the chaos began. > > According to both parties, the woman approached Janet=92s light blue Honda > Civic once it was parked. Apparently, she had a few harsh words for Janet.= A > possible threat? Could she be hostile? Who knows? But in what is known as > =93the land of fruits and nuts,=94 Janet suspected by the woman=92s attitu= de that > this may have been the latter. > > Words were exchanged. Then, the woman opened Janet=92s door and saw someth= ing > on Janet=92s lap =96 and then abruptly closed the door in fear =96 the sam= e fear > most criminals have when they notice their potential victim is armed. > > In most states, that would have been the end of the story. Janet Lucero > thought so. But while she went on to order a burger at the restaurant, she > forgot she was in California. The woman who approached her car didn=92t. > She decided to do her =93civic=94 duty and make a call =96 the three digit= kind. > Shortly after leaving the restaurant, Janet found flashing lights in her > rear view mirror. > > Let=92s stop right here for a moment=85 > > Janet Lucero has had problems with police in the past =96 yet, no criminal > record. The worst transgression she ever committed was not having her dog= s=92 > vaccinations up to date. She also couldn=92t forget more recent stories th= at > are all too familiar to Californians =96 stories about what happens to peo= ple > who are found with guns in the car by police. Since many California > politicians and police feel the constitutional right to keep and bear arms > is the greatest threat to a free state, many of their victims (some unarme= d) > are not alive to give their own side of the story. The fact that they had=20= a > gun (or suspected to) is enough reason to be killed without prejudice. Jan= et > Lucero remembered this as she pulled over (and she did pull over). > > Back to the scene=85 > > Janet found herself looking down the barrel of the patrolman=92s service > revolver. Due to the well-publicized, recent behavior of some of Californ= ia > =92s Finest, Janet decided she would not be the next victim. She left the > scene for good reason, and the chase was on. Another one of those infamous > Golden State chase scenes most Americans find entertaining. But this wasn= =92t > OJ. This was different. The case of July 1, 1999 captured the attention of > the California Highway Patrol, then the San Diego County sheriff=92s offic= e, > then the Escondito Police Department, then all of San Diego County, and th= en > the nation. > > Janet never broke any speed limit laws. But the long chase led to the > infamous =93Standoff on Highway 78=94 where police finally cornered her. T= here > were two factors that drew the media attention to this particular standoff= : > 1) Thousands of motorists found themselves in stopped on Freeways all over > the North County of San Diego and 2) the lawful defiance of one Janet > Lucero =96 a woman who refused to be killed. Once stopped, all of San Dieg= o > awaited a violent conclusion to the Standoff. > > Four hours in the California heat. Volunteers had to bring water to the > stranded motorists on Hwy. 78. An infant had to be rushed to the hospital. > The area was in chaos while the SD sheriff=92s department had =93all hands= on > deck=94 (with live media cameras in tow) as Janet sat peacefully =96 refus= ing to > get out of her car in fear. > > There are those who will say Janet had nothing to fear. But the several gu= ns > trained on her were later joined by SWAT teams dressed like active duty > Marines returning from Kosovo =96 with weapons to match, ready to blow her > head off even if she had just sneezed. No, nothing to fear. Then, add the > armored vehicle, the low-flying helicopter, then =93Lonny, the mechanized > RoboCop=94. Lonny=92s task was to peak into Janet=92s vehicle to make sure= she > wasn=92t a threat to the 70 heavily armed, armor plated, helmet wearing > camouflaged, para-military storm troopers holding weapons that most other > Californians would be jailed or shot for owning. > > All this for one 58-year old woman who simply didn=92t want to die that da= y. > > Janet=92s reward for her defiance was to be psychologically diagnosed by t= he > media before she ever got out of the car. She was a kook, a nut, crazy, > sick, out of her mind, and most of all dangerous. But the fact that Janet= =92s > rights may have been violated never became an issue. After all, she had a > gun =96 thus, according to many behind the badges (and the armor, and the > bigger guns) she has no rights, Bill of Rights be dammed. > > Of course, some people begged for the police to simply kill her so they ca= n > get back to their soap operas=85 > > After being assured there was a large enough crowd around to witness her > potential execution, Janet left the vehicle without incident. No shots wer= e > fired. Janet Lucero was booked on eight count (5 felonies) about 7 hours > after her incident with the Roberta Neilsen, the angry motorist with an > itchy dialing finger. They threw the book at her. Her charges in a > nutshell: Knowing her rights, and refusal to immediately submit to lethal > force. She is now locked away awaiting trial. > > The District Attorney pleaded for no bail since (despite the overwhelming > lethal presence demonstrated to San Diego County) this 58 year-old, 120 > pound woman wearing shorts is =93a threat to public safety=94. > > Was she justified? Was it legal? Is she insane? Is there more to this stor= y? > These questions will be answered in court. Fortunately, Janet Lucero of > Ranchitas, California (the woman who refused to be the next victim) will b= e > alive to tell her side of the story =96 something we suspect the awesome p= ower > of government wasn=92t anticipating. > > What caused all this? A .38 caliber revolver that was never loaded or > pointed, and a 58 year-old innocent woman in fear of her own life. > > Janet Lucero needs and wants good legal counsel. Someone who believes in t= he > Second Amendment, and Janet refuses to use taxpayer dollars for her legal > defense. Nancy Lord Johnson has volunteered her legal services in this > matter. In Nancy=92s words, > > =93Someone has got to put a stop to this!=94 > > Stay tuned... > > Nancy's web site can be found at: > www.nancyjohnson.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > For subscription info, go to: > http://www.egroups.com/list/piml > > -> Send "subscribe snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com > -> Posted by: "J.J. Johnson" * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * =20 To join the Waco discussion group,=20 Click here ----> waco= - -gro up-subscribe@egroups.com To join the Slick discussion group,=20 Click here ----> slick= - -d-sub scribe@egroups.com and read what others are saying about these issues. FREE To join the SlickPlus internet group,=20 Click here ----> SlickPlus-Subscribe@egroups.com and receive free e-mails from others about the same topics. FREE=20 To sign off, send e-mail to SlickPlus-unsubscribe@egroups.com what could be easier? * * * * *=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To subscribe to the Slick e-zine, send e-mail to RichSlick@aol.com for deta= ils. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 99 12:32:03 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] Re: [cactus@aztec.asu.edu: FW: COMMENTARY: How to Sell Gun Rights - PLUS Harry's Show Sunday] (fwd) On Oct 20, ALLEN BENZ wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: cactus@aztec.asu.edu (ALLEN BENZ) To: cactus Subject: Re: FW: COMMENTARY: How to Sell Gun Rights - PLUS Harry's Show Sunday Date: Wed, 20 Oct >From: LibertyWire >To: Subscriber >Subject: COMMENTARY: How to Sell Gun Rights - PLUS Harry's Show Sunday >Date: Sat, Oct 16, 1999, 2:10 PM > >L i b e r t y W i r e > >IN THIS ISSUE |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > >1 COMMENTARY: How to Sell Gun Rights >2 Tune In to Harry's Radio Show Sunday Night >3 How to Subscribe or Unsubscribe >4 How to Communicate With Us > > >1 |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > >How to Sell Gun Rights > >By Harry Browne > >>From time to time the press reports a tragic event in which a child is >killed in a gun accident. It provides an opportunity for politicians and >reformers to speechify about the need to pass stricter gun laws -- laws >that will require safety locks on guns, laws that will force gun owners >to keep all guns in locked storage, even laws to make it harder for >someone to buy a gun. > >But why does the press bother to report the tragic gun accident? > >Because it is an extraordinary event. Like an earthquake big enough to >cause fatalities, the rarity of a gun accidentally killing a child makes >it newsworthy. It's the legendary "Man Bites Dog!" story. > >But thousands of children are killed in _car_ accidents _every year_. >Why don't you see reports of those auto accidents on the TV News? >Because they are too commonplace to be news -- events no more unusual >than "Dog Bites Man." > >The death of any child or adult is a tragedy. Life is the most precious >gift a human being possesses. But if the death of a child from a gun >accident justifies taking away freedoms from people, why doesn't the >death of a child from an auto accident justify laws that would keep >children away from cars? > > Rights & Freedoms > >The answer stems from a simple truth: Few people care about the rights >and freedom of others. Most of us care only about the rights and >freedoms that affect our own lives. > >Almost every adult drives a car and accepts the risks that go with >driving an automobile. To forcibly keep children away from cars would >inconvenience most families so much that the idea could gain the support >of almost no one -- except perhaps the Vice-President of the United States. > >But only about half of American families own guns. The other half >includes people who, for one reason or another, see no need to own a gun >-- in some cases because they are afraid of guns. Those people can >easily believe that reducing gun ownership will save lives without >inconveniencing them in any way. > >Politicians are particularly prone to this attitude. Most of them work >in buildings with heavy security; many of them have armed chauffeurs and >armed guards; and if they want to go into a dangerous area of a city, >they can requisition an armed escort. So they don't feel imposed upon >when restrictive gun laws prevent average citizens from defending >themselves. > >Also, politicians respect the political influence wielded by many >gun-control advocates. Some of those advocates run America's biggest >newspapers, or are pundits on the Washington Sunday-morning talk shows, >or are wealthy Hollywood celebrities. Why shouldn't politicians pander >to these gun-controllers who can do so much to help their careers -- >especially when the politicians feel no need to own guns themselves? > > Appealing to Non-Gun-Owners > >We may never change the minds of the politicians or the gun-control >advocates. So our efforts should be directed toward the rest of the >people who don't own guns. > >And the first point to keep in mind is this: _You will get nowhere by >proclaiming your right to keep and bear arms_. Very few people care >about rights they don't plan to exercise themselves. > >To them, it doesn't matter that the Founding Fathers meant the 2nd >amendment to provide unqualified gun ownership for citizens, and it >doesn't matter that the right to be armed against a potential tyranny >may be the most important right of all. > >You might be able to win debates asserting such arguments, but _you >won't win converts_. And what's the point of winning debates if you >don't convert anyone, and if winning a debate simply encourages your >opponents to look for new ways to defeat you? > >I know of only one way to bring non-gun-owners over to our side: by >showing them that widespread gun ownership makes them safer than they >would be among a disarmed populace. > >Here are some examples of points that can help you persuade them . . . > >* If you're ever in a restaurant and a maniac starts shooting people at >random, I hope someone in that restaurant will have a gun that can stop >the assailant. > >* I doubt that I would take advantage myself of a law allowing people to >carry concealed weapons, but I feel safer in a community where anyone I >see _might_ be carrying a concealed gun -- so that any criminal has to >wonder whether _I_ have a gun. > >* Although you hear about unusual accidents in which guns have killed >children, or cases where a maniac has fired on a bunch of children, you >don't hear of the thousands of commonplace events in which a home >containing children was defended from an intruder by a gun owner -- or >even defended by a child with a gun. Nor do you hear about the criminals >who were deterred from entering a neighborhood where they didn't know >which houses might contain guns. Your home is safer if some of your >neighbors happen to have guns. > >* Criminals rarely buy guns in gun stores or at gun shows, because they >don't want guns traced back to them. They buy their guns in the >underworld or simply steal them. So they are rarely affected by >gun-control laws. The number of criminals nabbed by such laws is >microscopic compared to the number of innocent citizens who were >prevented by waiting periods from buying guns when threatened by a >stalker, a violent ex-spouse, or a crazy person. Like most laws, gun >control hurts the innocent far more than the guilty. And since the >criminals will have guns no matter what, the more the innocent are >deprived of owning guns, the less safe _you_ are. > >* Women especially need access to guns to protect them from stronger men >who might assault them in parking lots, on city streets, or in their own >homes. To prevent them from carrying guns is to deny them the only way >to resist an attacker. > >* The police can't stop an intruder, mugger, or stalker from hurting >you. They can pursue him only _after_ he has hurt or killed you. >Protecting yourself from harm is _your_ responsibility, and you are far >less likely to be hurt in a neighborhood of gun-owners than in one of >disarmed citizens -- even if you don't own a gun yourself. > >* It is unrealistic to say such things as "But no one needs an assault >rifle." How can we know that? If you were a store owner during the Los >Angeles riots and a mob was about to enter your store to destroy your >life savings, which would you have wanted in your hand -- a knife, a >6-bullet revolver, or an assault rifle? Giving politicians the power to >decide what you need and don't need is to force you to live your life >according to _their_ needs and circumstances -- making you vulnerable to >any whim that strikes the politicians during a period of temporary >hysteria. > >Understand that none of these points is likely to convert someone >overnight. But your prospect will actually listen to you when you >discuss these things, because you're talking about matters that affect >his life directly. And as he considers more and more of these matters, >he is likely to become less adamantly opposed to gun ownership, then >grow even more open-minded, and eventually become your ally. > >That's how so many people have come to want an end to the Drug War -- a >step at a time -- and not out of concern for someone else's right to >take drugs, but to make one's own life safer. > >The ability to keep and bear arms is one of the most important rights >you can have. So it's essential that you be as persuasive as possible >when you get the chance to talk to someone about it. Don't waste the >opportunity by preaching about _your_ right to do what _you_ want. > >Instead, agree with the person's concern for safety -- so he knows you >want a more peaceful society, not a more violent one. Then you can help >him understand how much safer he'll be in a society of armed citizens, >rather than living in one where only criminals and government employees >have guns. > >------ >Harry Browne was the 1996 Libertarian presidential candidate. > > >2 |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > >Tune In to Harry's Show Sunday; >Participate by Phone or E-mail! > >Be sure to tune in Sunday evening to Harry Browne's weekly >radio show on the Talk America Network. Throughout the show, >the lines will be open at 800-298-TALK (800-298-8255). >Your comments and questions are invited. > >SHOW TIMES >Eastern 11:00pm - 2:00am >Central 10:00pm - 1:00am >Mountain 9:00pm - midnight >Pacific 8:00pm - 11:00pm > >STATION LIST >A complete list of stations carrying the show can be found at >http://www.harrybrowne2000.org/ > >LISTEN LIVE VIA THE INTERNET >For those of you who aren't within range of one of the stations >carrying the show, it is also broadcast live over the Internet. >It can be heard by going to http://www.HarryBrowne2000.org prior >to show time. Select RADIO SHOW on the left and follow the >instructions on that page. NOTE: You need to have RealPlayer >software installed on your computer in order to hear the show. >But RealPlayer is free, and downloading it is quite simple. >Click on the "Free RealPlayer" logo on the RADIO page. > >PARTICIPATE BY E-MAIL: We have added a feature for those >who tie up their phone line listening live over the Internet. >You can participate by sending your question or comment to >Harry during the show via e-mail. Please visit >http://www.harrybrowne2000.org and select RADIO SHOW on >the left. The Radio Show page provides instructions for >sending your e-mail message during the show. > >ARCHIVED SHOWS NOW HAVE FEWER COMMERCIALS >Shows archived on the Harry Browne 2000 web site since July 4 >have fewer commercials which makes for more enjoyable listening. > > >3 |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > >TO SUBSCRIBE, >to this list >mailto:Majordomo-LibertyWire@mjx.HarryBrowne2000.org >with the words > subscribe LibertyWire >on the first line of the body of the message. >Please leave the rest of the message blank. > > >TO UNSUBSCRIBE, >from this list >mailto:Majordomo-LibertyWire@mjx.HarryBrowne2000.org >with the words > unsubscribe LibertyWire >on the first line of the body of the message. >Please leave the rest of the message blank. > > >4 |*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*| > > >LibertyWire is a service of the >Harry Browne 2000 Exploratory Committee >3509 Connecticut Avenue NW/Suite 2000 >Washington, DC 20008-2470 >Phone 202-478-0794 >Web http://www.HarryBrowne2000.org > >YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO CIRCULATE >this newsletter or any commentary >that may appear in it as long as the >author is credited and the subscription >information above is attached. > >YOUR LETTERS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME >and encouraged. Please >mailto:Letters@HarryBrowne2000.org >We reserve the right to edit all letters >for reasons of grammar, punctuation, taste, >clarity or length. We will assume that >submissions via this e-mail address >automatically imply permission to include >them in an upcoming issue. > >TO CONTACT THE EDITOR, >mailto:JackDean@HarryBrowne2000.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/slick-d http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #293 *************************