From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #294 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Friday, October 22 1999 Volume 02 : Number 294 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:18:18 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Thanks One and All All of you who responded for my information need are wonderful. I used much of it for my presentation tonight to the League of Women voters. "Very scholarly," said one woman, "you did a very good job presenting your side." "Thanks for the summation, it was great, " said the lady who invited me. Well, I think I foamed at the mouth just a little and the moderator had to get on me for being long winded, BUT I did get a lot of agreement from the Sheriff and the Chief of Police. Nice feeling! We will see. Some of it will make TV. I had fun. Oh, the sweatie from Nebraskan's for Peace? She said we could end violence and victimization if we only had a sufficient self control. "Well, how is self control on the victims part going to stop a perpetrator from attacking?" asked one person. "Oh," she said, " I don't mean just the victim, I mean that perpetrator needs self control also." INDEED! Well that is the answer folks. How did I miss it. When you are being attacked ask your attacker to have some self control. Then there will be nothing to worry about. Tweat Tweat Tweatie! Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 08:52:52 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: Garden: Re: [piml] Halloween, Thanksgiving cancelled (fwd) Here's the latest list to add to, or sprinkle throughout your posts. Note: As _everyone seems to forget it, I've added, "PGP", to the start of this list.....:-) On Oct 21, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In the spirit of driving NSA crazy, this was so good I decided that I HAD to send it everywhere I could! To bad I don't have all my old addresses in my new address book! Huck rocco angelo wrote: > PGP, The President, Jati, skorpion VZ61 machine pistol, > C-4, RDX, LAW, M-60, > > M-203 grenade launcher, HK-MP5SD, Uzi, biological > agents, AMFO, VX, > > Armalite AR-180, M16-A1, M-16A2, > > Baretta Model 12 SMG, Sten SMG, Browning HP, > Makarov, P-38, RGD-5, SAM 7 > > Strela, RPG-7, > > HMTD, picric acid, TACC, mercury fulminate, > sodium chlorate, lead > > picarate, > > silver nitrate, DDNP, > > lead azide, TNT, TETRYL, Amatol, Petn, Amonium > Nitrate, Air Force One, > > the football, NSC, NSA, CIA, FBI, DEA, ATF, USCG, > USMC, USA, USN, USS > > Nimitz, USS John F. Kennedy, > > BATFISH, COLT, AR-15, Air Force Two, M1A, Barrett > .50 cal, AP, API, > > PATRIOT, STINGER, M1A Abrams, T-72, T-80, BMP, > BTR-60, FALN, JDL, > > PLO,UDA, > > RAF, NAR, PFLP, ALN, SLA, Osama Bin Laudin, > Andreas Baader, Carlos, > > Promise, M2A1, BAR M1918-A2, M4, FN-FNC, FN-FAL, > L1A1, HK-G3A3, DPM, > > RPK, > > Flash Bang, CS, CN, AK-47, AK-74, AKR, AKS, RPD, > BROWNING M1919A4, > > VICKERS, > > MAXIM, SWD, INGRAM MAC-10, Supress-on, BREN-L4A1, > ARMALITE AR-10, > > STONER-25, M-14, Galil ARM, WALTHER WA 2000 > Sniper rifle, Remington > > 700, > > INA 953. Styer MPi-81, Styer AUG, Styer Scout, > hacking, hacker, blue > > box, > > red box, explosive, tetranitrotoluene, > nitrocelulose, blasting caps, > > ADL, > > Morris Dees, Al Gore, Tipper, Hillary, Chelsea, > Louis Freeh, Janet Reno, > > Madeline Albright, William Cohen, IRS, BATF, DOD, > WACO, RUBY RIDGE, > > OKC, > > Cklahoma City, Militia, Gun, Handgun, Milgov, > Assault Rifle, Terrorism, > > Bomb, Drug, Horiuchi, Koresh, Davidian, Gordon > Kahl, Posse Comitatus > > Act, > > Special Forces, Linda Thompson, Special > Operations Group, SOG, SOF, > > Delta > > Force, Constitution, Bill Of Rights, Whitewater, > Pom Park On Meter, > > Arkanside, Iran Contras, Oliver North, Vince > Foster, Promis, Mossad, > > Nasa, > > Mi5, Oni, CID, Ak47, M16, C4, Malcolm X, > Revolution, Cherokee, Hillary, > > Bill Clinton, Gore, George Bush, Wackenhut, > Terrorist, Task Force 160, > > Special Ops, 12Th Group, 5th Group, 7th Special > Forces Group, 20th SFG, > > Faction 3, 5th Column, JTF, JTF-6, Alpha Group, > MACV, SOCOM, ANTHRAX, > > Marburg Virus, hemoragic fever, EBOLA, potasium > cyanide, neutron > > weapons, > > phased pulse plasma, HAARP, TRAAC, TOMAHAWK, > TEAMS, JFKSWC, Ft. Bragg, > > 82nd > > Airborne, 101st Airborne, Ft. Benning, Rangers, > SEALS, Little Creek, RED > > CELL, TACC, SNIFFER, Pave-lo > > My country 'tis of thee, Sweet land of liberty, > Of thee I sing. Land where my father's died, > Land of the Pilgrim's pride, From ev'ry > mountainside > Let freedom ring." My native country, thee,Land > of the noble free,Thy name I love.I love thy > rocks and rills, > Thy woods and templed hills; My heart with > rapture thrills Like that above. Our fathers' God, to > Thee, > Author of Liberty, To thee we sing, Long may our > land be bright With freedom's holy light; > Protect us by Thy might,Great God, our King! > -Words by Samuel Francis Smith > With dignity > > --- Robert Baker wrote: > The witch is moving to New York, and apparently > > taking the turkey with > > her... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 16:44:35 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [cydonia@gci-net.com: Fw: rights] (1/2) (fwd) On Oct 22, ALLEN BENZ wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: cydonia@gci-net.com ("cydonia") To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Subject: Fw: rights Date: Sun, 05 Sep ----- Original Message ----- From: zachec To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 1:58 PM Subject: Fw: rights > Roger; > > Here this is for you. My friend Thomas just sent this to me this morning. I > like this historic legacy of our country that is ignored by the ignorant in > their war against our freedom. > > Scott H. > > ---------- > From: Tom Grosch > To: zachec@theriver.com > Subject: rights > Date: Sunday, September 05, 1999 8:38 AM > > Scott, > Thought you would like this: > > > The Right to Bear Arms > Article two, Bill of rights, U.S. Constitution > "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, > the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." > > This article...goes back to the English Bill of Rights. Madison's seventh > item accepts the Virginia convention bill's seventeenth article...Article > 13 of the Virginia Bill of Rights is the underlying source. The > Pennsylvania minority was the first to propose and amendment dealing with > this topic. - Edward Dumbauld, The Bill of Right, 1957 > > English Bill of Rights - 1689 (King James II ...did endeavor to subvert and > extirpate the Protestant religion, and the laws and liberties of this > kingdom...) 6. > By causing several good subjects, being Protestants, to be disarmed, at the > same time when papists were both armed and employed, contrary to law. > (...the said lords spiritual and temporal, and commons...declare...) 7. > That the subjects which are Protestants, may have arms for their defense > suitable to their conditions, and as allowed by law... > > Virginia Bill of Rights - June, 1776 13. That the well regulated militia, > composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, > natural, and safe defense of a free state.... > > Proposed by Pennsylvania - December, 1778 7. That the people have a right > to bear arms for the defense of themselves and their own State, or the > United States, for the purpose of killing game; and no law shall be passed > for disarming the people or any of them, unless for crimes committed, or > real danger of public injury of individuals..... > > Proposed by New Hampshire - June 1788 Congress shall never disarm any > Citizen unless such as are or have been in Actual Rebellion. > > Proposed by Virginia - June 1788 That the People have the right to keep and > bear Arms; that a well regulated Militia, including the body of the People > capable of bearing Arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free > state; > > Proposed by North Carolina - August 1788 17th. That the people have a right > to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the body > of the people, trained to arms is the proper, natural and safe defense of a > free state. > > Offered by Madison in Congress - June 1789 The right of the people to keep > and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated > militia being the best security of a free country... > > Reported by the select Committee - July 189 A well regulated militia, > composed of the body of the people, being the best security of a free > State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be > infringed... > > Passed by the House of Representatives - August, 1789 Article the Fifth. A > well regulated militia, composed of the body of the People, being the best > security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms > shall not be infringed... > > Passed by the Senate - September, 1789 Article the Fourth. A well regulated > militia, being necessary to me security of a free State the right of the > people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. > > ARMS, MILITIA, and FREEDOM > "Those who have command of Arm's in a county are Masters of the State." > -Socrates > > The Constitution > "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and > effects against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, > and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or > affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the > persons or things to be seized.Ó > > 4th Amendment > "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges > or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive > any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor > deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the > laws." 14th Amendment > > Edmund Burke > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do > nothing." > > Thomas Paine > "...arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve > order in the world as well as property..horrid mischief would ensue were > the law-abiding deprived of the use of them." > > George Mason > "Ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few > public officials." > > George Washington > "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the > people's liberty tenth." > "A free people ought to be armed. When firearms go, all goes. We need them > every hour." > > Elbridge Gerry > "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of > a standing army, the bane of liberty. Whenever Governments mean to invade > the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the > militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." > > Richard Henry Lee > "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people > always possess arms, and be taught alike - especially when young - how to > use them." > "A militia, when properly formed are in fact the people themselves....and > include all men capably of bearing arms." > > Thomas Jefferson > "No free men shall ever be debarred the use of arms... The strongest reason > for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, > to protect themselves against tyranny in government." > "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned > from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let > them take arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, > with the blood of patriots and tyrants." > > "The Constitution of most of our states, and of the Unites States, assert > that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by > themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed." > > "False is the idea of utility...that would take fire from men because it > burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, > except destruction of liberty. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms > are laws of such nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined > nor determined to commit crimes..such laws serve rather to encourage than > to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater > confidence than an armed man." > > Patrick Henry > "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who > approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but > downright force. When you give up that force, you are eventually ruined." > > "The great object is that every man be armed and everyone who is able may > have a gun." - VA Convention on ratification. > > "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that > we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference > between having our arms in our own possession and under our direction, and > having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real > object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more > propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?' > > Alexander Hamilton > "...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form > an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the > liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if > at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to > defend their rights..." > > "The best we can hope for, concerning the people at large, is that they be > properly armed." > > John Adams > "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual > discretion... in private self-defense." > > "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. > It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the > people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages > who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good > masters, but they mean to be masters." > > Daniel Webster > > James Madison > "The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. A > well-regulated Militia, composed of the people trained to arms, is the best > and most natural defense of a free country." > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 16:43:51 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [cydonia@gci-net.com: Fw: rights] (2/2) (fwd) On Oct 22, ALLEN BENZ wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > "No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, > without uniting the characters of citizen and soldier in those destined for > the defense of the State. Such are a well regulated Militia, composed of > the freeholders, citizen, and husbandman; who take up arms to preserve > their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen." > > "Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the > people of almost every other nation. > > ...Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of > Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the > governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." > > Tench Coxe > "The power of the sword is in the hands of Congress? My friends and > countrymen, it is not so; for the powers of the sword are in the hands of > the yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The Militia of these free > commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with > any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the > Militia? They are not ourselves as politicians and lawmakers. They are > those who have elected us into our positions and entrusted us with the > power of the sword is not in the hands of either the Federal or State > governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain in the hands of > the people." > > "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may > attempt to tyrannize..the people are confirmed by the article in their > right to keep and bear their private arms." > > "...as the military forces which must be occasionally raised..might pervert > their power to injury of their fell citizens, the people are confirmed by > the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." > > Noah Webster > "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are > in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot > enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are > armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that > can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States.' > > Samuel Adams > "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to > prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from > keeping their own arms..." > > George Mason > "...to disarm the people - that is the best and most effective way to > enslave them.' > > Abraham Lincoln > "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. > Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can > exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary > right to dismember or overthrow it." > > "We, the people are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts - > not to overthrow the constitution, but to overthrown men who pervert the > constitution." > > Mohandas K. Gandhi > "Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as cooperation with good." > > "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look > upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." > > Others > > *"If you want to have a large population and to provide it with arms so as > to establish a great empire, you will have made you population such that > you cannot handle it as you please." - Machiavelli, The Discourses > > *"The right of self-defense in the first law of nature. In most governments > it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest > limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the > people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, > prohibited; liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of > destruction." - Justice George Tucker, Virginia Supreme Ct, 1803 > > *"The militia is the natural defense of a free country against sudden > foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpation's of > powers by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up > large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both > from the enormous expense with which they are attended, and the facile > means which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, t subvert the > government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the > citizens to keep and bear arms > has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of the > republic, since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and > arbitrary power of the rulers; and will generally, even if those are > successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph > over them." - Justice Joseph Story, US Supreme Court(1811-1845) > > *"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or > the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It > is one of the "High Powers" delegated directly to the citizen by the United > States Constitution, Amendment II, and Ôis excepted out of the general > powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon it or impair > it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law-making power." > Texas Supreme Court Decision, Cockrun v Texas, 1859 > > *"As night does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both > instances, there is a twilight when everything remains unchanged. And it is > in that twilight that we must be most aware of the change in the air - > however slight; lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." - > Justice William O. Douglas > > *"People who object to weapons aren't abolishing violence, they're begging > for rule by brute force, where the biggest, strongest animals among men > were always automatically Ôright'. Guns ended that, and social democracy is > a hollow farce without an armed populace to make it work." - L. Neil Smith, > The Probability Broach > > *"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty > when the government's purposes are beneficent...the greatest dangers to > liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but > without understanding." - Justice Louis Brandeis, Olmstead v. US, Supreme > Court, 1928 > > *"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without > bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too > costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the > odds against you and only a small change of survival. There may even be a > worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because > it is better to perish than to live as a slave." - Winston Churchill > > *"Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them." 0- Walter > Mondale, US Ambassador to Japan, April 1994 > > *"...the second amendment is not for killing little ducks and leaving Huey > and Dewey and Louie without an aunt and uncle. It is for hunting > politicians...when they take you independence away." - Rep Bob Dornan, US > House of Representatives, January, 1995 > > *"Today's liberals wish to disarm us so they can run their evil and > oppressive agenda on us. The fight against crime is just a convenient > excuse to further their agenda. I don't know about you, but if you hear > that Williams' guns have been taken, you'll know Williams is dead." - > Walter Williams, Prof. of Economics, George Mason University. > > Opposing Views > > *"This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation > has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more > efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -Adolf > Hitler, 1935 > > *"Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the > State." - Heinrich Himmler, 1935 > > *"(the US) can't be so fixed on our desire to preserve the rights of > ordinary Americans..." President Clinton, March 1, 1993, press conference > in Piscataway, NJ (Boston Globe, 3/2/93) > > *"I don't care about crime, I just want to get the guns." - Sen. Howard > Metzenbaum, 1994 > > Does the Second Amendment apply only to National Guard units? > > The National Guard was not organized in the United States until 112 years > AFTER the second Amendment was written. The original intent of the Second > Amendment was to ensure the individual right of citizens to keep and bear > arms. The freedom to own and carry a weapon is a fundamental,, guaranteed > Constitutional right. It even precedes the Constitution and Bill of Rights. > Any attempt to alter that is an attempt to overthrow the Constitution. The > idea that the right to arms was linked only to militia duty, and not to the > individual right of > self defense, is a modern one. The earliest court decisions - Kentucky in > 1822, Indiana in 1833 Georgia in 1837, to name a few- recognized an > individual right to arms. The Georgia Supreme Court noted the second > amendment protected "the right of the whole in 1905 did a Kansas court > propose the idea that the right to bear arms was meant only to protect the > organized state militia. The right to arms clause was very important to the > Americans demanding a bill of rights. The framers who answer entirely > different critics, seeking an entirely different principle. Very few > ANTI-gunners would really want to restore the militia system, which made > gun ownership mandatory. Their claims actually seek to defeat both portions > of the second amendment. > > Jim Eason - KSFO Radio, San Francisco - August, 1997 > > 900 Front Street > San Francisco, CA 94111-1450 > Telephone 415-398-5600 > Fax 415-391-3616 > ---------- [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 99 18:18:17 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [jphenry@gci-net.com: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism..."] (1/2) (fwd) On Oct 22, ALLEN BENZ wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: jphenry@gci-net.com (John Patrick Henry) To: (Recipient list suppressed) Subject: "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism..." Date: Fri, 03 Sep Wise men, Some common sense for your viewing pleasure. JPH Post Number 155: Gun Control IV "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened"; Norman Thomas, 1936 presidential candidate on the Socialist ticket. It has been quite some time since I have sent out a Post on Gun Control, and with good reason; it really is a non-issue. And with that being said, I find it amazing the number of people on the net who talk about the Second Amendment, as if that gave them some kind of Right. I keep telling everyone, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, are simply restrictions on those who work within the so-called government (actually, it is not a government, it is a corporation, in bankruptcy, under reorganization plan number 26). And if you are SUBJECT (please look up the word subject in a legal dictionary) to the Constitution, you have NO Rights, much less protections by the Second Amendment. What this boils down to is: Are you are United States citizen, or an American? (See Part I of my Series; United States citizen, Yes or No?) Until you, the people of America, begin to discuss the real issues, and stop playing the games of those who would rule you with an iron hand, nothing is going to change. It can not, because the real issues are being controlled by being ignored by the media. Why would you be surprised at that? If the media is discussing it, then it is not the real issue, and the discussion is solely to confuse you, and to hide the real agenda. The United States government is under contract. Contracts are specifically held to be above the Constitution; the government is specifically prevented within the Constitution itself from interfering with contracts. It does not matter if the contracts are unconscionable, illegal, or not revealed. The contracts can not be touched. So, that corporation known as the United States government (see Part II of my Series, The Constitution) is under contract, and has been since 1962 (there is plenty of evidence of this and it goes out over the net constantly) to disarm. Really, this means transfer its arms to a superior corporation, known as the United Nations. And this means also to disarm all United States citizens. It is a contract, and it will happen, unless you start talking about the real issues. Unless enough people start to wake up and react. Unless you start to spread the word. I suggest you read my Series. This is not about crime; this is not about the safety of children. This is not about hunting. This is not about gun collecting. This is about the right of the people to defend themselves against the parasites who prey on the common people of the earth. This is about the bankers and their ilk, and about those who do not work for a living. In here, put lawyers, judges, professional military, bureaucrats, police (part of the military; why do you think they wear uniforms and refer to us as civilians? For reference, see Martial Law), and all others who slop at the public trough, and I am not referring to welfare. This is about disarming the people of America so that the corporation known as the United States government can merge it s subjects into a superior corporation, and transform itself into the New World Order. Read on, my friends, and see if you may pick up a few hints. This is good reference material. Especially when trying to talk to some of those anti-gun zealots, who are out en masse today, stalking the bulletin boards, demanding "Gun Bans". http://home.pacbell.net/dragon13/policeprot.html Do You Have A Right to Police Protection? One of the basic themes of gun control is that only the police and military should have handguns or any type of firearm. I cannot explain their rationale, other than to say that gun control proponents must believe that the police exist to protect the citizenry from victimization. But in light of court decisions we find such is not the case. You have no right to expect the police to protect you from crime. Incredible as it may seem, the courts have ruled that the police are not obligated to even respond to your calls for help, even in life threatening situations! (There are many good examples of such calls and non-response by the police on this site. But, it is meaningless, unless when you are sending this information out, you are talking about the real issues at the same time. You will find that the Anti-gun Zealots will crawl under a rock when the real facts about disarming America, and why, are brought out. David) "We will not recognize it as it rises. It will wear no black shirts here. It will probably have no marching songs. It will rise out of a congealing of groups and elements that exist here and that are essential components of Fascism. The essentials of Fascism are: (1) Corporatism; (2) government-created purchasing power as a substitute for private investment; (3) production of government funds by bank credits; (4) militarism; (5) dictatorship. It will be at first decorous, humane, glowing with homely American sentiment. But dictatorship cannot remain benevolent. To continue, it must become ruthless. When this stage is reached we shall see that appeal by radio, movies, and government-controlled newspapers to all the worst instincts and emotions of our people. The rough, the violent, the lawless men will come to the surface and into power. This is the terrifying prospect as we move along our present course." John T. Flynn, 1941 (Read the above carefully, and see if it does not, indeed, describe America today. And remember, what is listed above also comes straight out of the Communist Manifesto. There is no difference, and the support for both comes from the exact same people; New York, London, and Washington, DC. David) Number 10 of the Communist rules for revolution captured at Dusseldorf Germany in 1919 reads... 10. "Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with a view to confiscating them and leaving the population helpless"... "Our main agenda is to have all guns banned of course. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." Sarah Brady 1994 National Educator. ARMING OF COMMUNIST CHINA Rep. Tancredo, House of Representatives, May 26, 1999 Mr. Speaker, the mantra of the Democrats this day has been gun control. But Mr. Speaker, it is very, very difficult to entrust this administration and that side of the aisle with gun control when they have been so unsuccessful with arms control. Many are calling the information revealed in the Cox Report the scandal of the century. There are two major scandals detailed in this impressive bipartisan report. There was a national security breakdown in the Energy Department labs, a breakdown that started in the 1970s and became nearly total beginning in 1993 under an administration that has never taken national security issues seriously. And there is an even bigger scandal, the effort to downplay, to cover up and to thwart investigations into the first scandal when it became known in 1995. I repeat, the bigger of the two scandals is not that China successfully spied on the U.S., but the almost incomprehensible reaction to that fact when it was discovered in 1995. The biggest scandal of all is the arming of the communist Chinese after hundreds of thousands of dollars of campaign contributions to the Democratic Party. Published in the Jun. 7, 1999 issue of The Washington Weekly Copyright 1999 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com) Reposting permitted with this message intact. (But, this does make sense when you know where the power behind Communism really is; London and New York. And, when you know that the arming of Communist China is aimed at control of America when as much disarming has been done as is possible. Those in Washington, DC, are not your friends; they are the worst enemies you have. David) U.S. NUCLEAR ARSENAL COMPROMISED Rep. Schaffer, House of Representatives, May 26, 1999 Mr. Speaker, people in the White House talk an awful lot about the children. Well, today, our children are a lot less safe and a lot less secure because our entire nuclear arsenal has been compromised. Communist China acquired our most sophisticated technology, some by theft but even more right through the front door. This administration has sold the Chinese communists high-speed supercomputers, sophisticated satellite launch technology, state-of-the-art machine tools and ultra sophisticated nuclear energy design technology. Communist China now sells our technology to Iran and other rogue nations, but we do nothing. The White House covers it up and even denies China has done it. We are discovering now that in 1995 communist China had stolen the crown jewel of our nuclear arsenal and yet this administration did nothing about it. If the President is to be believed, no one even informed the Commander in Chief. Well, now, communist China has 13 nuclear missiles which are more accurate, more deadly, because of White House actions, aimed at our children. Published in the June 7, 1999 issue of The Washington Weekly Copyright 1999 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com) Reposting permitted with this message intact New York Times May 30, 1999 Right to Bear Arms: A Second Look http://www.nytimes.com/library/review/053099gun-rights-review.html By WILLIAM GLABERSON The Second Amendment, the orphan of the Bill of Rights, has been written off as a legal backwater for decades. Judges and legal scholars have glossed over its guarantee of the right "to keep and bear arms" as if it were so much propaganda for the National Rifle Association. But now, just as gun control is gaining momentum, the provision one legal scholar calls "the embarrassing Second Amendment" is being taken seriously for the first time in modern memory, with some scholars and at least one federal judge saying it may guarantee individual citizens some rights to guns, after all. Here, for example, is a comment made by one prominent constitutional expert in an interview last week: "It becomes impossible to deny that some right to bear arms is among the rights of American citizens." Charlton [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #294 *************************