From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #307 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, January 6 2000 Volume 02 : Number 307 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Jan 00 21:47:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Choice Is Yours (fwd) On Jan 2, Exegesis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Exegesis A Compass For Moral Excellence Published Worldwide From Washington http://www.sm.org/exegesis January 1, 2000 =20 ________________________________________________ Page 1 News Real News From The Real World Your daily online newspaper http://page1news.com ________________________________________________ ExTel See our expanding range of deeply discounted phone services - as low=20 as 4.9 cents a minute, Great international rates http://ld.net/custom/?sm.org ________________________________________________ The Choice Is Yours If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of=20 civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. Thomas Jefferson, 1816 We have just crossed a much-publicized, much-feared threshold: a new=20 year, and though purists may disagree, it is also uniquely for those=20 now alive, a new century, and a new millennium. One of the few=20 things of which we can be assured as we move forward is that we=20 always have a choice in the way we conduct ourselves and our affairs.=20 At no time has that choice stood in greater contrast than now. =46or some, this new century promises to be an exciting time of=20 challenge, opportunity and achievement. Yet there are others for=20 whom this is never a happy time of year, who greet it with=20 apprehension. I want to send my thoughts and prayers to those who=20 feel troubled or abandoned, lonely, broken-hearted or bereaved. I=20 know, and more importantly, our Heavenly Father knows, how you feel.=20 I pray that the God of all comfort will remind you how much He loves=20 you now and throughout the coming year. You see, it seems to me that America is also standing at another kind=20 of threshold: a definite choice about the kind of nation this is to=20 become, and what kind of people we are to be. Looking back across=20 the vast sweep of America's great history, we see a nation "conceived=20 in liberty" which, for most of its history has been the world's=20 staunchest defender of liberty, a nation which bowed the knee only to=20 Almighty God, and revered His teachings, and which was devoted to the=20 principle that all power is derived from Him alone, and that in Him=20 alone is ultimate authority. Somewhere around 1967, many of these foundational beliefs were=20 compromised, as an increasingly liberal society marginalized the=20 importance of liberty, and quickly jettisoned one Christian teaching=20 after another, until finally, God Himself was relegated to the status=20 of a benign optional extra, who might perhaps be squeezed into Sunday=20 mornings between the newspapers and brunch. Former House Speaker=20 Newt Gingrich calls this period "The Discontinuity of American=20 History". He has correctly argued that it bears little resemblance=20 to the preceding two hundred years. As a result of the past 32 years or so, America has become almost=20 unrecognizable, and many European countries seem to be following our=20 example. Because we have failed to defend the values we hold dear,=20 our culture has become renowned worldwide for its depravity and=20 godlessness. Because we have woefully mismanaged our resources,=20 America's cities are decaying into ruin and lawlessness. And because=20 we have eagerly succumbed to the pervasive influence of a=20 centrally-owned media, America's suburbs have become havens for safe=20 but humdrum existences which rarely make the effort to learn the=20 truth. As we stand at this threshold, we must ask the most crucial of all=20 questions: is this nation in God's will, or has it rebelled against=20 God? If you'd like to see both the America that used to be and the=20 America of today in graphic detail, I urge you to read Deuteronomy=20 Chapter 28. Here are a few brief points: =46irst, we see the clearest portrait of how things used to be until=20 the mid-sixties: "If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully=20 follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set=20 you high above all the nations on earth. The Lord will grant that the=20 enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. Then=20 all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of=20 the Lord, and they will fear you. You will lend to many nations but=20 will borrow from none." (vv 1/7/10/12) At that point, two-thirds of the way through the twentieth century,=20 American culture dictated an about-turn. We started making gods out=20 of consumerism, entertainment, television, Hollywood and shopping=20 malls. And God's consequences are all too plain to see: "If you do=20 not obey the Lord your God ... the Lord will send on you curses,=20 confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you=20 are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have=20 done in forsaking Him." (vv 15/20) Actually, the scriptures are=20 more specific. They refer to our judicial system, which seem to=20 include a reference to how the impeached president has been allowed=20 to continue his evil rule over this nation: "The Lord will afflict=20 you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind." (v 28). Ah yes,=20 Senator Arlen Spector's Scottish law, while Bill Clinton "defends"=20 the Constitution. We do not forget such examples. There is a reference to illegal immigration and to the way the Panama=20 Canal has just been, handed over, de facto, to the Chinese=20 government: "The alien who lives among you will rise above you=20 higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. He will lend=20 to you, but you will not lend to him. He will be the head, but you=20 will be the tail." (vv 43-44) And there is an emphasis to this=20 warning, which speaks of the broader threat, perhaps the Sino-Russian=20 threat: "The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away,=20 from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation=20 whose language you will not understand, a fierce-looking nation=20 without respect for the old or pity for the young." (vv 49-50). That=20 sounds remarkably like the brutal regime of Communist China. The American people are not without intelligence, even brilliance,=20 but many seem to have been hypnotized into stupification by the=20 seductive central media. And according to Moses, the outlook isn't=20 too shiny either, unless we mend our ways: "All these curses will=20 come upon you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are=20 destroyed, because you did not obey the Lord your God ...because you=20 did not serve the Lord your God joyfully and gladly in the time of=20 prosperity." (vv 45/47) As we stand at the threshold of this new century, we still have the=20 same choice as we've always had: to follow the narrow way of=20 righteousness or to continue in the broad path of neglect. To become=20 informed is a choice, and, I believe, the most basic duty of every=20 American. We live in the information age, when it is so much easier=20 to gain knowledge than in previous generations. If we are to make a=20 single resolution this new year, to become informed should be=20 considered a priority. It will affect your whole life. One area in which I have been terribly ignorant is nutrition. At=20 Thanksgiving, I told you about an inspirational USAF airman from New=20 Orleans who had been healed of a brain tumor by prayer and diet. He=20 has been interning in our office, and has taught me a great deal=20 about cancer and nutrition. I have checked the facts as best as I=20 can, and it certainly appears that, just as scurvy is caused by a=20 Vitamin C deficiency, a leading cause of cancer is a Vitamin B-17=20 deficiency, which incidentally is banned from sale in the United=20 States, but can be obtained from apricot seeds and macadamia nuts.=20 Consequently, as a preventative measure, I have made a huge change in=20 my diet, virtually eliminating animal products including cow milk,=20 and prepackaged food. And I feel absolutely great! The new century can be a time of blessing or a time of drift, of=20 growth or of shrinkage, of ignorance or of knowledge. As ever, the=20 choice is yours. America, and the world, can be changed in only one=20 way: by individuals resolving to no longer follow the popular=20 culture but to take charge of their lives, the way they earn a=20 living, the manner in which they eat, think and conduct themselves. Liberal thinking suggests that anyone who has definite opinions and=20 believes one way superior to others is regarded as intolerant.=20 Indeed, the Exegesis web page was recently labeled a "hate site" by=20 the FBI. Yes, a hate site. We hate deliberate ignorance and those=20 who hate God, you see. "Do I not hate those who hate you, O Lord,=20 and abhor those who rise up against you?" (Psalm 139:21) There will=20 be no changes and there will be no apology from me. For over these=20 thirty years or so, liberal thinking has probably run the gamut of=20 credibility, and now has none. There is good reason to be optimistic=20 for the new century, if we are willing to cast aside ignorance for=20 knowledge, and blindness for perception. As ever, the choice is as much yours as it was the Children of Israel=20 in the time of Moses: "I have set before you life and death,=20 blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children=20 may live." (Deuteronomy 30: 19) That last sentence is a=20 recommendation, not a command. We are never forced to choose God's=20 way, in any part of our lives, but there are consequences if we do=20 not, because the laws of nature cannot be suspended. If we eat food=20 carelessly, we will become sick. If we watch the poison that=20 television has become, our minds will become corrupted. Will the 21st Century see the final decline of America, as so many=20 predict? Or can the poison be flushed out of our hearts, out of our=20 bodies, out of the nation, and out of the church, so that a real act=20 of healing and renewal can begin? The process is already under way.=20 The incidence of sin, corruption and irrelevance in our lives,=20 nationally and personally, seems to have overwhelmed logic recently. Yet I sense a rising awareness of the need for change. The dubious=20 pleasures of this world are obviously temporary and fleeting - they=20 do not endure. Likewise, we must educate, because the hopelessly=20 corrupt judicial, electoral and political systems need to be rooted=20 out and replaced. I believe God's special people, chosen and=20 anointed, will come forth and flush out the poison. We are already=20 seeing it happen. We have learned that the only things for which we can certainly rely=20 on the popular culture are lies and deception. We are learning to=20 solve the deadliest medical problems of the age. And we are learning=20 to choose better lives, in which we carefully select what we take in,=20 through food and drink, and through our eyes and ears. We are slowly=20 and painfully learning to eschew the popular culture, discard=20 television, and live in God's will. It seems we'll try every new fad=20 except living by the scriptures. Let me recommend it. Therefore, as we enter the new century, the choice is still ours. We=20 can be, as Jefferson said, either ignorant or free, but not both.=20 And that's true today, tomorrow, this new century, always. As=20 individuals, as a nation, shall we choose freedom or slavery, death=20 or life? I can only tell you I've made my choice. Joshua put it=20 this way: "But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then=20 choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve ... but as for me=20 and my household, we will serve the Lord." (Joshua 24:15) As we stand at this special moment together, may I wish you and your=20 family a peaceful, blessed year ahead. May God bless you, and may=20 God bless America. =87 Steve Myers =D7 Editor ________________________________________________ Page 1 News Real News From The Real World Your daily online newspaper http://page1news.com ________________________________________________ ExTel See our expanding range of deeply discounted phone services - as low=20 as 4.9 cents a minute, Great international rates http://ld.net/custom/?sm.org ________________________________________________________________________ =A9 Exegesis 2000 Post Office Box 789, McLean VA 22101, USA Subscriptions: Fax $32.95, E-Mail $16.95 * E-Mail exegesis@sm.org * Web Page: http://www.sm.org/exegesis [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 08:43:18 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Waco News: Final of '99 (fwd) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - ---559023410-758783491-946910598=:12231 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 22:56:37 -0500 From: Carol Moore To: Waco List from Subject: Waco News: Final of '99 1. In case you haven't been visiting my Waco News Page, here's a listing of some recent news. Fuller details are on the page. Plus I've updated several important Davidian Massacre pages. I also encourage you to write the prisoners to wish them prayers and freedom--soon! http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-news.html FYI. Neither the House nor Senate ended up holding hearings in 1999--they did have over a million pages of documents to go through, many of them new ones. We'll have to start a new campaign in 2000 to make sure we get them and they get to the truth. Also, the new video "Waco: A New Revelation" is now shipping. Call 1-800-277-9802 to order your copy. 12-26-99 CarolMoore@kreative.net http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/davidian-massacre.html Feel free to distribute this message =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D OCTOBER 1999 -- DAVIDIAN PRISONERS APPEAL TO SUPREME COURT Link to appeal is on Waco News page. ONGOING: ATF FEBRUARY 28, 1993 T-SHIRT TARGETED KORESH?? Davidian survivor David Thibodeau was given a black t-shirt with this graphic (click image for page with larger photo and more details) by a person he'd prefer not to identify. The shirt shows a caricature of Koresh, with cross hairs drawn centering right on his forehead, and gives the date and time with the caption: "Here's a sight we've been waiting for!" David is currently investigatin whether the shirt is legitimate and information about the shirt has been set to Davidian civil suit and defense attorneys. If this isn't evidence of malicious intent by ATF, I don't know what is! Check out Thibodeau's web page: http://www.aplacecalledwaco.com DECEMBER 23, 1999 DANFORTH FINDS INFRARED CAMERAS FOR TEST SMITH FORBIDS GOVERNMENT TO WITHHOLD DOCUMENTS DECEMBER 21, 1999 DAVIDIAN LAWYER RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT DELTA FORCE DECEMBER 17, 1999 U.S. SEEKS TO SHIELD WACO FILES: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE CALLED SECURITY RISK DECEMBER 9, 1999 DAVIDIAN LAWYERS START QUESTIONING FBI AGENTS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BARS RELEASE OF WITNESS NAMES DECEMBER 9, 1999 ATTORNEYS FOR DAVIDIAN SURVIVORS DECLINE TO NOMINATE EXPERTS FOR RE-CREATION OF APRIL 19th FLIR TAPE NOVEMBER 30, 1999 GOVERNMENT NAMES 3 EXPERTS WHO COULD PARTICIPATE IN DAVIDIAN SIEGE RE-CREATION NOVEMBER 23, 1999 DANFORTH WILL QUESTION FBI TANK DRIVERS NOVEMBER 23, 1999 DOJ ARGUES SIMILAR TEST OF GUNFIRE SUFFICIENT FBI JUST KEEPS =93FINDING=94 LOST EVIDENCE NOVEMBER 18, 1999 FBI SAYS WACO TEST IMPOSSIBLE=96CAMERA CAN'T BE DUPLICATED PLUS NEWS FROM THE REST OF 1999 AND FROM THE LAST FIVE YEARS +++++++++++++++ UPDATES TO THE DAVIDIAN MASSACRE PAGES Lots of NEW LINKS Organized by INVESTIGATION-ORIENTED PAGES, OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS, NEWS ARCHIVES, MOUNT CARMEL VICTIMS AND SURVIVOR-RELATED PAGES, MISCELLANEOUS PHOTO AND LINKS PAGES http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-links.html Lots of ARTICLES Organized by THE ATF ATTACK (Now includes full text of the 1993 Treasury Report) THE FBI SIEGE AND ATTACK, THE DAVIDIAN TRIAL, THE 1995 HOUSE AND SENATE HEARINGS, BILL CLINTON ++++++ DAVIDIAN PRISONERS INFORMATION AND ADDRESSES http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-prisoners.html They might not have the time or energy to write you back, but they always enjoy hearing from supporters. May we see peace and freedom and Justice! in 2000 and beyond! (If you're concerned about nuclear issues and Y2K go to my page: http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/C&C-news.html ) End of Update - ---559023410-758783491-946910598=:12231 Content-Type: TEXT/HTML; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Content-ID: Content-Description: =0D =0D
    =0D
  1. =0D
    2. =0D =0D
    In case you haven't been visiting my Waco News Page,=0D
    here's a listing of some recent news.  Fuller details=0D
    are on the page.  Plus I've updated several important=0D
    Davidian Massacre pages. I also encourage you to write=0D
    the prisoners to wish them prayers and freedom--soon!=0D
    http://ww= w.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-news.html=0D
    FYI.  Neither the House nor Senate ended up holding=0D
    hearings in 1999--they did have over a million pages of=0D
    documents to go through, many of them new ones.=0D
    We'll have to start a new campaign in 2000 to make=0D
    sure we get them and they get to the truth.=0D =0D

    Also, the new video "Waco: A New Revelation" is now=0D
    shipping.  Call 1-800-277-9802 to order your copy.=0D =0D

    12-26-99 CarolMoore@kreative.net=0D
    h= ttp://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/davidian-massacre.html=0D
    Feel free to distribute this message=0D
    =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0D
    OCTOBER 1999  -- DAVIDIAN PRISONERS APPEAL=0D
    TO SUPREME COURT Link to appeal is on Waco News=0D
    page.=0D =0D

    ONGOING:  ATF FEBRUARY 28, 1993 T-SHIRT=0D
    TARGETED KORESH??=0D
    Davidian survivor David Thibodeau was given a black=0D
    t-shirt with this graphic (click image for page with=0D
     larger photo and more details) by a person he'd prefer=0D
    not to identify. The shirt shows a caricature of=0D
     Koresh, with cross hairs drawn centering right on=0D
    his forehead, and gives the date and time with the caption:=0D
    "Here's a sight we've been waiting for!"  David=0D
    is currently investigatin whether the shirt is legitimate and=0D
     information about the shirt has been set to Davidian=0D
    civil suit and defense attorneys.  If this isn't evidence=0D
    of  malicious intent by ATF, I don't know what is!=0D
    Check out Thibodeau's web page:=0D
    http://www.aplacecalledwaco= =2Ecom=0D
     =0D
    DECEMBER 23, 1999=0D
    DANFORTH FINDS INFRARED CAMERAS FOR TEST=0D
    SMITH FORBIDS GOVERNMENT TO WITHHOLD DOCUMENTS=0D
     =0D
    DECEMBER 21, 1999=0D
    DAVIDIAN LAWYER RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT DELTA FORCE=0D =0D

    DECEMBER 17, 1999=0D
    U.S. SEEKS TO SHIELD WACO FILES: PUBLIC DISCLOSURE CALLED SECURITY=0D RISK=0D =0D

    DECEMBER 9, 1999=0D
    DAVIDIAN LAWYERS START QUESTIONING FBI AGENTS=0D
    JUSTICE DEPARTMENT BARS RELEASE OF WITNESS NAMES=0D =0D

    DECEMBER 9, 1999=0D
    ATTORNEYS FOR DAVIDIAN SURVIVORS DECLINE TO NOMINATE EXPERTS FOR RE-CRE= ATION=0D OF APRIL=0D
    19th FLIR TAPE=0D =0D

    NOVEMBER 30, 1999=0D
    GOVERNMENT NAMES 3 EXPERTS WHO COULD PARTICIPATE IN DAVIDIAN SIEGE=0D RE-CREATION=0D =0D

    NOVEMBER 23, 1999=0D
    DANFORTH WILL QUESTION FBI TANK DRIVERS=0D
     =0D
    NOVEMBER 23, 1999=0D
    DOJ ARGUES SIMILAR TEST OF GUNFIRE SUFFICIENT=0D
    FBI JUST KEEPS =93FINDING=94 LOST EVIDENCE=0D =0D

    NOVEMBER 18, 1999=0D
    FBI SAYS WACO TEST IMPOSSIBLE=96CAMERA CAN'T BE DUPLICATED=0D =0D

    PLUS NEWS FROM THE REST OF 1999 AND FROM THE LAST FIVE YEARS=0D
    +++++++++++++++=0D
    UPDATES TO THE DAVIDIAN MASSACRE PAGES=0D =0D

    Lots of NEW LINKS Organized by INVESTIGATION-ORIENTED PAGES,=0D
    OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS, NEWS ARCHIVES, MOUNT CARMEL=0D
    VICTIMS AND SURVIVOR-RELATED PAGES,=0D
    MISCELLANEOUS PHOTO AND LINKS PAGES=0D
    http://w= ww.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-links.html=0D =0D

    Lots of ARTICLES Organized by THE ATF ATTACK=0D
    (Now includes full text of the 1993 Treasury Report)=0D
    THE FBI SIEGE AND ATTACK,  THE DAVIDIAN TRIAL,=0D
    THE 1995 HOUSE AND SENATE HEARINGS,=0D
    BILL CLINTON=0D
    ++++++=0D =0D

    DAVIDIAN PRISONERS INFORMATION AND ADDRESSES=0D
    http= ://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-prisoners.html=0D
    They might not have the time or energy to write you back, but=0D
    they always enjoy hearing from supporters.=0D =0D

    May we see peace and freedom and Justice! in 2000 and beyond!=0D
    (If you're concerned about nuclear issues and Y2K go to my page:=0D
    http://www.kreative.ne= t/carolmoore/C&C-news.html )=0D
    End of Update=0D
     

=0D =0D - ---559023410-758783491-946910598=:12231-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 13:58:06 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: TWA - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:12:35 EST From: HSprunt@aol.com Subject: Re: CAS: Donaldson on TWA 800 In a message dated 00-01-02 12:40:29 EST, you write: << FWIW, I was able to pose a few questions to Bill Donaldson about TWA 800 about a week ago on Jerry Pearce's radio show. The most interesting thing he said was that he now believes that Navy Master Chief Dwight Brumley, who witnessed the missile engagement from USAir Flight 217, saw the SECOND missile, not the first one. And this second missile hit the plane as it was already in the process of breaking up, so it did not leave as much evidence of its presence as did the first missile. >> Excellent. This was why I asked you the questions for the CDR that I did. I don't think the CDR has made the specific point you refer to before (re timing of the two missile launches in connection with the primary radar returns from the missile body and related blow-through of the first missile to fire). I did not get to hear the show, but the above all hangs together, though I would say that instead of saying it exactly this way: <> (presumably referring to the radar track of the missile body specifically and other "evidence" in general of its passage), I would have said that the radar evidence of the second missile body after impact would not be as graphic/relatively detetable as the passage through the aircraft of the first missile body since the breakup due to the first missile would have produced a lot of additional airfact debris that would obscure the primary radar returns from the second missile body and the debris associated with its impact on the aircraft. Note that the positions of both the first surface boat to fire and the second surface boat to fire (per the radar returns) are such that both surface boats lunached relatively close to the time that TWA800 was at its closest point of approach to each surface boat (the time to fire given the very high speed of the missile relatively to the 747. Note, too, that to insure at least one hit, the "triangulation" fire by the two surface boats is the way to go (e.g., not just that you need to have more than one shooter for a high kill probability, but also it's better to have your shooters spread out in azimuth either side of the target's ground track and ahead of the aircraft that is the target. Warm regards, Hugh Sprunt ========================================================================== This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@admin.listbox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 00 12:51:06 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: S486 (fwd) On Jan 5, Jim Zoes wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ------------------------ From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: S486 Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 11:30:37 -0500 (EST) To: fap@europe.std.com > Gary writes: > > ... > >It will make it illegal to talk about ANY controlled substance, which > >includes marijuana. > > That's not what it says: > > > >"(A)........or to distribute by any means information pertaining to, in > >whole or in part, the manufacture of a controlled substance, with the > >intent that the teachin, demonstration, or information be used for, or > ^^^^^^ > >in furtherance of, an activity that constitutes a Federal crime; or > > > >"(B)........to teach or demonstrate to any person the manufacture of a > >controlled substance, or to distribute to any person, by any means, > >information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture of a > >controlled substance, knowing that such person intends to use the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >teaching, demonstration or information for, or in furtherance of, an > >activity that contitutes a Federal crime. > > ... > > So first of all this talk/information must be about the "manufacture" > (i.e. advocacy isn't included) and also there must be intent. > -- > --henry schaffer > Doesn't matter if it's about the "manufacture" or what the "intent" is. If this law stands, then sure as shooting some gun grabber will want a law to prohibit the disscussion of firearms, the use of firearms, and firearms and politics. >From the so-called "HCI Master Plan" at Jeff Chan's archive: " 31 Making unlawful the assembly of more than 4 _armed_ individuals who are not peace offers [sic] or military Since most hunting parties consist of four, we recognize the need to eliminate the currently legal assembly of shooters for paramilitary training on private lands. This is just one good suggestion for our elimination of the "gun culture" from the mainstream." And " _Control of Dangerous literature (Bomb making, machinegun conversions, etc.)_ Too much irresponsible material is purportedly covered by the 1st amendment, however, the time will come when our nation has to agree that some literature does not belong in a safe society, like instruction manuals on how to kill, or how to make homemade explosives, or nuclear bombs. We must realize that there can be such as thing as too much freedom where such literature poses a serious threat to the public safety." If we sit back on our duffs and let this one become law, then we're going to face a time when THIS email list becomes illegal. Political correctness = censorship. Gun control = victimization. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 00 20:02:20 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: GSL> Fw: DNC Gun Poll (fwd) On Jan 5, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >This one is directly from the DNC. >You know what to do. Charge! > >www.democrats.org Cleverly, they don't tell you the results. So they can claim anything they want, I guess. - -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares | RKBA! Who can protest and does not, is an accomplice in the act. -- THE TALMUD [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 00 21:23:01 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] And These Need To Be Sent To All, PROOF POSITIVE TO AMERICA (fwd) On Jan 5, DSlatton@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Wednesday January 5 6:41 PM ET Clinton Scandal Documents to Be Put on Internet NEW YORK (Reuters) - Documents from the sex scandal that led to the impeachment of President Clinton in connection with his affair with Monica Lewinsky will be posted in their entirety on the Internet next week, a leading publisher said on Wednesday. Random House said that the documents -- used extensively by one of its authors, Jeffrey Toobin, in his new book on the scandal -- would be available next Tuesday, Jan. 11, at http://www.vastconspiracy.com. In a brief interview, Toobin said none of the documents had been available in their entirety before, including the full text of Paula Jones' affidavit describing the ``distinguishing characteristics'' of Clinton's private parts. Jones, whose sexual harassment suit against Clinton brought the Lewinsky affair to light, alleged that Clinton exposed himself to her at a Little Rock, Arkansas hotel in 1991 when he was Arkansas governor. Clinton denied that allegation. Toobin, a New Yorker magazine writer and ABC legal analyst, obtained access to the documents while researching his new book, ``A Vast Conspiracy: The Real Story of the Sex Scandal that Nearly Brought Down a President,'' which will also be published on Jan. 11. The Republican-led House of Representatives in December 1998 impeached Clinton on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice stemming from his affair with Lewinsky. The Senate in February 1999 acquitted Clinton. Random House said that the documents to be posted were: - -- Full text of Paula Jones affidavit concerning Clinton's ''distinguishing characteristics'' dated May 26, 1994. - -- Affidavit by Arkansas State Trooper Ronald Anderson in connection with Jones vs. Clinton Nov. 15, 1994. - -- Text of E-mail from George Conway, supporter of Paula Jones, to Internet journalist Matt Drudge, concerning Clinton's ''distinguishing characteristics'' dated Oct. 8, 1997. - -- Unexpurgated deposition of Paula Jones in Jones v. Clinton Nov. 13, 1997 - -- Transcript of surreptitious tape recording of interview with Juanita Broaddrick by investigator for Paula Jones on Nov. 13, 1997. Broaddrick accused Clinton of raping her in 1978, a charge that the White House denied. - -- Transcript of secret court hearing on Jan. 12, 1998 in Jones v. Clinton. - -- Unexpurgated deposition of Clinton in Jones V. Clinton, Jan. 17, 1998. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for educational tools for you kids? Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com http://click.egroups.com/1/645/5/_/122670/_/947120926 - -- Check out your group's private Chat room - -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=slick-d&m=1 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jan 00 13:37:46 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] [Fwd: Officials, counties sued over oaths] (fwd) A possibly useful tactic, but research sould be needed to see just who is/ isn't compliant in what State/County etc. On Jan 06, D. D. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hmmmmm ;-)> Officials, counties sued over oaths California lawsuit claims many hold office fraudulently By: Julie Foster WorldNetDaily.com Key government officials, including California Attorney General Bill Lockyer, are currently being served a complaint filed in the United States District Court in Oakland, Calif., claiming the defendants have no right to act with the authority of law since they did not properly file their oaths of office. According to the California State Constitution and federal law, late filing renders the office vacant and requires immediate removal of the elected official.

Greg Willis filed the suit after years of research, during which he uncovered the fact that California Governor Gray Davis, Attorney General Bill Lockyer and 38 individuals in four California counties had filed their oaths too late. The legal consequences of late filing are drastic.

Once the office-holder is removed, all actions taken in an official capacity are considered null and void, any wages or other payments received by the official are to be paid back in full and the official may be subject to a prison term.

Willis' complaint is simple: "Why is it that public officials force us to comply with the law, but they see themselves as above the law?"

In an exclusive WorldNetDaily interview, Willis expressed frustration with a government that employs such a brazen legal double standard. The lawsuit is a means of fighting back in a system that he believes has exceeded its boundaries.

"What would happen if you didn't pay your car registration in time?" asks Willis. "You can't drive that car!"

"In my opinion, this is the most important lawsuit ever filed in the history of the great state of California, because we want to settle once and for all whether or not these public officials are required to comply with the same laws as the rest of us," he continued. "We have deadlines or we don't have a civilization. We have to have limits."

Willis' attorney, Jeff Greenwald, agrees, saying that this case is about the rule of law.

"It may sound technical, it may sound trivial, but it's not," he told WorldNetDaily. "[The defendants] are not going to sit down and take this lightly."

While Greenwald admits that he does not know what the defendants will do in response to the case, he does have his theories. Retroactive legislation may be attempted to excuse late or absent oaths of office. The legislation may take the form of an extended time period for compliance, or it may simply require all future elected officials to file their oaths with the secretary of state in the time prescribed by law -- 30 days from the issuance of a certificate of election.

Another escape route for delinquent officials could be the declaration by the federal court that statutes relating to the filing of an oath of office within 30 days are directional rather than jurisdictional -- meaning that the statutes are merely a recommendation instead of a mandate.

That tactic has been used frequently by the courts in order to get government entities out of sticky legal situations. However, such a declaration may be more difficult to come by in this case, as directional statutes have been declared so only if they do not contain consequences for lack of action. The failure to file an oath of office in a timely manner clearly contains ramifications, the first of which is removal from office.

"They're going to be terrified, because the implications of this are so complex and far-reaching," said Greenwald, who has requested a jury trial.

Defendants in the case may see the loss of their jobs and the reversal of their professional actions, but the real fear is loss of official immunity. Government officials are immune to lawsuits concerning actions in their official capacities. Should Willis' lawsuit succeed, however, the court would deem the 38 individuals named as defendants as never having held office, and, as such, they would not then be under the cover of immunity.

The lawsuit will be followed by federal quo warranto actions against every defendant now working for the state of California or Alameda or Contra Costa counties. A quo warranto is a legal demand to produce proof of credentials -- in this case, to provide a certified copy of a timely-filed oath of office.

Quo warranto actions are "unique in American jurisprudence, as the plaintiff doesn't have to prove anything," said Greg Nichols, a teacher who has traveled up and down the state of California informing civil rights groups about the oath of office.

"All [the defendant] would have to do is go down to the secretary of state's office, get a certified copy of the oath and show it off in the court and be done with it," he said.

However, a quo warranto action can only be filed with the approval of the attorney general, a condition that is unique to California, and one that has prevented previous attempts by Nichols and Willis to bring such actions against officials in the past. This time the writs will come from the federal level, which allows Willis to circumvent California's roadblock to the process.

WorldNetDaily contacted Assistant Attorney General Rodney Lilyquist, head of Lockyer's opinion department who had told Willis he could not file a quo warranto action in California, to comment on the case. Lilyquist told WND that he could not comment without seeing the complaint, but when WND informed Lilyquist that he is named as a defendant in the case, the assistant attorney general had more to say.

"He is wrong on that one," said Lilyquist, incredulously, referring to Willis' inclusion of him in the suit. "He doesn't know where the oaths are supposed to be filed."

Lilyquist has yet to file even a delinquent oath of office.

Nichols, who has assisted Willis in his research leading up to the suit, said, "Of all the people I've taught to do this, very few have had the guts to do it."

Willis is one of those few.

"I'm doing this primarily for my kids, but also for everybody in the state of California," said Willis.

He simply wants to know, "Are we a nation of laws, or are we a nation of petty little dictators?" [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #307 *************************