From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #310 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, January 20 2000 Volume 02 : Number 310 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 10:33:09 -0600 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: 17 More RAID/WMD Teams to be formed WMD=Weapons of Mass Destruction However these days folks want to declare every semi-auto firearm a WMD, not to mention pipe bombs and such as that. http://defence-data.com/current/page6239.htm 14 January 2000 US Secretary of Defence William S. Cohen has announced the stationing plan for 17 additional Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) Civil Support Teams (formerly called Rapid Assessment and Initial Detection Teams) using National Guard personnel. These teams, expected to be established between March and July 2000, are part of the Department of Defence's overall efforts to support local, state, and federal civil authorities in the event of a WMD incident on US soil. <<> The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 00 08:07:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Possibly Bad Information (fwd) On Jan 15, Bill Utterback wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The message WYOMING SHERIFFS PUT FEDERAL OFFICERS ON CHOKE CHAINS=20 may have been bad information. Or did the records vanish? Can anyone verify this one way or the other? Bill Utterback - ----- From: True Patriot Case: Castaneda v. USA Filed: 10th May 1996 Closed: 29th April 1997 Case No: 2:1996cv00099 Wyoming District Court, Casper Nature of Suit: Civil Rights > WYOMING SHERIFFS PUT FEDERAL OFFICERS ON CHOKE CHAINS I just ran a Lexis search using the case name, party names, case number and a full search of every district court ruling for the month. THERE IS NO SUCH CASE. You have been had. Don't believe me? Hit a library and run a Lexis or Westlaw search yourself. And note: these guys cannot seem to say WHICH judge issued this ficticious order? [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 00 11:11:26 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Sheriff Story is Authentic (fwd) On Jan 15, Bill Utterback wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The newspaper article below was written by Phil Hamby and=20 published in 1997 in The Knoxville Journal. I just talked to Phil=20 Hamby on the telephone (423 546-5353) and he confirms that he did=20 write the article and he spoke to Sheriff Mattis on the telephone=20 at the time. He also told me that Sheriff Mattis is no longer in=20 office. After the Knoxville Journal article below, there is a message I=20 picked up from . He claims to have just spoken=20 to Sheriff Mattis who seems to still be in office. I have no=20 explanation for this apparent discrepancy but, as far as I am=20 concerned, the basic story is authentic and that is as far as I am=20 going to investigate. Bill Utterback - -----=20 from: Sheriff boots Feds from his county By Phil Hamby Sheriff Dave Mattis of Big Horn County, Wyoming said this week that as a result of Case # 96-CV099-J, U.S. District Court, District of Wyoming, he now has a written policy that forbids federal officials from entering his county and exercising authority over county residents unless he is notified first of their intentions. After explaining their mission, Mattis said he grants them permission to proceed if he is convinced they are operating within the legal parameters and authority limitations set forth in the U.S. Constitution. The sheriff grants permission on a case-by-case basis only. When asked what, if any, repercussions he had gotten from the Feds, he quickly and confidently replied, None whatsoever. He explained by saying, They know they do not have jurisdiction in my count unless I grant it to them. Mattis clarified his position by saying the federal court had ruled the state of Wyoming is a sovereign state and the state constitution plainly states that a county sheriff is the top law enforcement official in the county. Additionally, Sheriff Mattis contends that the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, clearly defines the geographic territories where the federal government has jurisdiction. Amendment X, he said, states that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Therefore, Mattis thoroughly believes the Feds have very limited powers in any state unless the local high-sheriff allows them to exercise power beyond that which the Constitution provides. Put another way, Mattis said, if the sheriff doesn=92t want the Feds in his county, he has the constitutional power and right to keep them out or ask them to leave. Accompanied with other legal interpretations Mattis stands on the definition of the wordsovereign, which is defined by Webster=92s as= paramount, supreme. Having supreme rank or power. Independent: a sovereign State. Mattis said he grew weary of the Feds coming into his county and running rough-shod over county residents: i.e., illegally searching, seizing property, confiscating bank accounts, restricting the free use of private lands and other abuses, without a valid warrant and without first following due process of law as guaranteed by the Constitution to every citizen. As long as Mattis remains sheriff he says he will continue to see to it that the citizens of his county get their day in court. Mattis went on to say that, to his knowledge, even the IRS has not attempted to seize any citizen s real property, bank account or any other private-owned possessions since he ran the Feds out of his county. Sheriff Mattis emphasized that he is not a radical man. He said he is only dedicated to protecting the constitutional rights of the citizens of his county. He added that ordinary citizens are not the only ones bound by and expected to obey laws. Elected officials and government employees at all levels of government are also bound by and should be expected to obey certain laws. As long as Sheriff Mattis is the high-sheriff of Big Horn County, he seems determined to make sure private citizens and government officials alike act within the law and their designated powers. Sheriff Mattis came across as a soft-spoken, polite man whose only interest is protecting the citizens he was elected to serve. That being the case, he might be the sheriff for as long as he wants to be. Sheriff Mattis is hopeful that other sheriffs will assume the same stance. Copyright 1997 The Knoxville Journal - ----- See also: http://www.valint.net/php/sew/can/CAN00010.TXT http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a36e8a5d525a6.htm - ----- From: patriot@sgi.net Hello to all!=20 A little more then two hours ago I got off the phone with Bighorn County Sheriff David Mattis. This man is exactly the type of man you would expect to be involved with setting things straight with the Feds or whatever other bad guys we're talking about: HONORABLE and TRUSTWORTHY. During the conversation, without me prompting him, he sincerely spoke the magic words all REAL SHERIFFS speak: "I want to keep my oath of office." The importance of those words cannot be overestimated. That is the only quote I'll give from the conversation and I'm not going to say anymore about the man David Mattis. There was in fact a "case" in Wyoming in which the outcome was that ALL COUNTY SHERIFFS are now demanding that any Federal agent coming into their counties must first clear with the Sheriff's office. Sheriff Mattis inherited the case when he was newly elected to Office in '95 as the defendent. The plaintiff in the case, another good man doing his duty PERSEVERED. HE WON, SHERIFF MATTIS WON, WE WON!! The case was settled in Casper, Wyoming by 1997 as reported. The case in question and the interview reported actually took place. One thing to pass on from this conversation: the Sheriffs involved want everyone to COOL IT! Let the dust settle, because NOT ALL of their constituents agree with this policy and these Sheriffs would like to be elected again. (Remember what happened to the patriot Sheriff Richard Mack?) You all got the picture? ******************************************************************* A few times a week, on average, I forward messages that I=20 consider to be worthwhile. Occasionally I may be inspired to=20 write a brief editorial. If you do not want to receive these messages, send me a message=20 with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject field. If you would like to begin receiving these messages, send me a message with SUBSCRIBE in the subject field. for Liberty (for all), Bill Utterback BUtterb@connecti.com - ----- "We have the greatest opportunity the world has ever seen, as long=20 as we remain honest -- which will be as long as we can keep the=20 attention of our people alive. If they once become inattentive to=20 public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, judges and=20 governors would all become wolves." Thomas Jefferson "It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." Samuel Adams "It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from=20 falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the=20 Government from falling into error." U.S. Supreme Court in American Communications Association v. Douds, 339 U.S. 382,442 - ----- World's Smallest Political Quiz http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html =20 Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ Fully Informed Jury Association http://www.fija.org/ Gun Owners of America http://www.gunowners.org/ Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership http://www.JPFO.org/ COPYRIGHT NOTICE-- In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed prior interest in receiving this information for nonprofit research and educational purposes only. Ref: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:33:52 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Supremes Will Hear Davidians Appeal!! 1-14-00 (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:51:50 -0500 From: Carol Moore To: A-Waco List from Subject: Supremes Will Hear Davidians Appeal!! 1-14-00 Just got a note from a Davidian prisoners attorney's office: > We just got a call from the Clerk's office at the Supreme Court and > she said > that cert had been granted today in the Waco case!! She said she will > fax > the Order to us soon. > Go to http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-news.html to read the original appeal to Supreme Court and a summary of whole trial and appeals. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:34:15 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Court TV Waco Show Tues. 1/18 (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:14:12 -0500 From: Carol Moore To: -Waco List from Subject: Court TV Waco Show Tues. 1/18 http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/mugshots/episodes/koresh.html COURT TV (cable) David Koresh: Reborn in Waco Premieres Tuesday, January 18 Check your local cable local listing for time. A riveting profile of the controversial cult figure who took on the U.S. government. The show features exclusive interviews with Waco survivor David Thibodeau and David Koresh's brother, Roger Haldeman, who speaks publicly for the first time. Koresh's mother, Bonnie Holdman, was also interviewed and reveals new details about her son's childhood. Tuesday, January 18th, 8pET/5pPT- Directly after the Court TV "Mugshots" documentary "David Koresh, Reborn in Waco", and as part of Court TV Online's in depth coverage of the subject, chat with David Thibodeau, author of "A Place Called Waco," and one of only nine followers of David Koresh who survived the FBI attack on the Branch Davidian compound. Come back Tuesday 1/18 to see In-depth: David Koresh (photographs, audio files, and documents) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 00 11:33:44 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Court TV Waco Show Tues. 1/18 (fwd) (fwd) On Jan 18, Paul M Watson wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 20:14:12 -0500 From: Carol Moore To: -Waco List from Subject: Court TV Waco Show Tues. 1/18 http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/mugshots/episodes/koresh.html COURT TV (cable) David Koresh: Reborn in Waco Premieres Tuesday, January 18 Check your local cable local listing for time. A riveting profile of the controversial cult figure who took on the U.S. government. The show features exclusive interviews with Waco survivor David Thibodeau and David Koresh's brother, Roger Haldeman, who speaks publicly for the first time. Koresh's mother, Bonnie Holdman, was also interviewed and reveals new details about her son's childhood. Tuesday, January 18th, 8pET/5pPT- Directly after the Court TV "Mugshots" documentary "David Koresh, Reborn in Waco", and as part of Court TV Online's in depth coverage of the subject, chat with David Thibodeau, author of "A Place Called Waco," and one of only nine followers of David Koresh who survived the FBI attack on the Branch Davidian compound. Come back Tuesday 1/18 to see In-depth: David Koresh (photographs, audio files, and documents) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 00 11:34:25 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Supremes Will Hear Davidians Appeal!! 1-14-00 (fwd) (fwd) On Jan 18, Paul M Watson wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 20:51:50 -0500 From: Carol Moore To: A-Waco List from Subject: Supremes Will Hear Davidians Appeal!! 1-14-00 Just got a note from a Davidian prisoners attorney's office: > We just got a call from the Clerk's office at the Supreme Court and > she said > that cert had been granted today in the Waco case!! She said she will > fax > the Order to us soon. > Go to http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/waco-news.html to read the original appeal to Supreme Court and a summary of whole trial and appeals. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 08:51:26 -0600 (CST) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Senator Clinton or Congressman Clinton Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 11:11:33 -0800 From: Ken Chafin Subject: CAS: ADG: The prodigal returns: Senator Clinton or Congressman Clinton? Arkansas Democrat-Gazette-January 18, 2000 The prodigal returns: Senator Clinton or Congressman Clinton? No one who's noticed that Bill Clinton's life has been roughly coincident with his running for public office will be surprised to hear him musing about running for Congress once his sentence in the White House is completed. But why run in Arkansas? Isn't that a bit of a commute from Chappaqua, N.Y.? Nevertheless, it would be something having the prodigal home, campaigning at the 'coon supper again, handling folks' problems with Social Security or the IRS. He might even be able to attract some government installation to Arkansas after all these years. And he would be handy to Susan Webber Wright's court and the Supreme Court's committee on professional conduct. What with Nick Wilson no longer in the Legislature, an ethical void waits to be filled in state government, not to mention the state's Democratic Party. Do you think it'll be Senator Clinton or Congressman Clinton who fills it? Whether as senator from Arkansas or congressman from the Second District, he'd make an interesting role model for our young people, and a great guest at university seminars about ethics in government. Perhaps he could talk at the law schools or maybe at an occasional seminary about perjury--its legal, ethical and theological ramifications. He could speak from a background few scholars bring to the subject. The president was reminded that his running for Congress someday would not be unprecedented. John Quincy Adams spent 17 years as a U.S. representative after he left the presidency. This president's interest in the finer resonances of history remains as sharp as ever. For other than their possibly sharing a post-White House career on Capitol Hill, it is hard to think of anything John Quincy Adams might have in common with William Jefferson Clinton. Unlike this president, Adams the younger was never a popular leader; he served only one term in the presidency and was never impeached; there was nothing hail-fellow-well-met about him (or about any of the other Adamses); he devoted himself almost exclusively to fighting for great principles, in particular the cause of human freedom; he took one unpopular stand after another and paid for them by being defeated at the polls; he never built a personal political machine and was remarkably free of partisanship in general; and he successfully argued a landmark case before the Supreme Court on behalf of liberty and the rule of law. A federalist by inclination and temperament long after his father's party had died out and he himself had abandoned it, John Quincy Adams never suffered a fool or dodged an unpleasant truth in his life. He abominated small talk and usually settled for muttering. An English diplomat once described him as "a bulldog among spaniels"--a wholly unintended compliment. Not only wouldn't J. Q. Adams have made a modern president, he was an obsolescent figure by the time he was elected to the office in 1824. And he was chosen then only by a fluke of the Electoral College--and an arrangement with Henry Clay that remains controversial to this day. The acid-tongued John Randolph of Roanoke called it an alliance of "Blifil and Black George . . . the puritan with the blackleg." An aristocrat in a dawning mass democracy, John Quincy Adams was shoved aside as soon as the people could elect a military hero and Man of the People in Andrew Jackson. Came the election of 1828, and Mr. Adams found himself denounced not only as a puritan but a menace to popular government, an old stick with no human feelings--and not without reason. He proved about as popular as Kenneth Starr, and for some of the same reasons. Years later, his own grandson Henry, in The Education of Henry Adams, a book that still merits re-reading, would accuse his grandfather John Quincy of being incapable of uttering "a syllable of cant." The man never heard of public opinion polls or focus groups or triangulation, and, if he had, one can only imagine the contempt he would have had for them. He used a conscience instead. He acted as if he had no need for popularity--in short, as if he were an Adams, and knew who he was. As a politician, John Quincy Adams doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath, in the same paragraph or even in the same book as William Jefferson Clinton or any other great two-time winner of the presidency like Richard Nixon. John Quincy Adams' understanding of the uses of patronage was primitive, his comprehension of the spoils system abysmal. He was an unregenerate outsider who refused to play the game. When his postmaster-general insisted on hiring those of another political persuasion, President Adams refused to interfere. ("I will not dismiss, or drop from executive offices, able and faithful political opponents to provide for my own partisans.") An antique in his own time, the man was light years removed--like a distant sun--from an administration that could produce Travelgate and then try to avenge itself on a hapless civil servant like Billy Dale for nothing more than being in its way. His grandson would sum it up by saying John Quincy Adams was not a politician but a philosopher. And as one historian of the age commented, philosophers in government must either cease to be philosophers or cease to govern. There has never been any great danger that William Jefferson Clinton would cease to govern, or at least cease to stop running for office. In the House, John Quincy Adams would find a better forum for his quirky ideas about the sanctity of human freedom, and achieve a greatness beyond any office. His struggle to overturn the gag rule against anti-slavery petitions in Congress made history. He would serve in the House till he collapsed on the floor with his boots on and his principles shined by use. It's hard to imagine old John Quincy doing anything else--as hard as imagining his abandoning Quincy, Mass. John Quincy Adams, a forgettable president, was anything but a forgettable man. In that respect, too, William Jefferson Clinton has it all over his forgotten predecessor, for as long as the history of impeachment is studied, Bill Clinton will prove anything but a forgettable president. He's not only been a president but a precedent. And he may have only begun to represent Arkansas mores, this time in Congress. Now there's a prospect to send one hurrying back to read the dull, dusty history of the first and only presidential term of John Quincy Adams--with delight and instruction. For we live in an age when simple rectitude in a president can seem a fascinating novelty. This article was published on Tuesday, January 18, 2000 ========================================================================== This mailing list is for discussion of Clinton Administration Scandals. If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send electronic mail to majordomo@admin.listbox.com. In the message body put: unsubscribe cas - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jan 00 20:40:17 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Results are in on British Gun Laws (fwd) On Jan 19, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Williams To: KL7DW Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 5:24 PM Subject: Results are in on British Gun Laws Planet Times.com A Weekly Variety Magazine ISSN 1526-1050 January 19 - January 25, 2000 One Person's Opinion Results are in on British Gun Laws Dr. Michael S. Brown January 19, 2000 Many advocates of gun control point to Great Britain as an example of a gun free paradise where violence and crime are rare. Well, there may be trouble in paradise. Our friends across the Atlantic did tighten their already strict gun laws, with the Firearms Act of 1997, making self defense with a firearm completely impossible for ordinary people. Obedient British subjects generally maintained a stiff upper lip as they surrendered their guns and their rights. Howmuch did crime drop as a result of this sacrifice? It did not drop at all. In fact, according to the local newspapers, England is being swept by a wave of crime, including plenty of gun crimes. The London Times published a story on January 16th that sums up the situation rather well. The headline reads, "Killings Rise As 3 Million Illegal Guns Flood Britain". Armed crime rose 10% in 1998 and the numbers for 1999 may be even more dramatic. The British experiment with gun prohibition has resulted in the same outcome as other forms of prohibition. Since guns are banned, every criminal wants one and it is very profitable to smuggle them in. According to a police spokesman, weapons from Eastern Europe, some still new in their boxes, are turning up during investigations. Criminals now have unprecedented access to high quality guns at affordable prices. The Manchester Guardian, on January 14th, laments the fact that their city is being called "Gunchester". Police sources were quoted as saying that guns had become "almost a fashion accessory" among young criminals on the street. Some gangs are armed with fully automatic weapons and the generally unarmed British police say that they risk confronting teenagers on mountain bikes brandishing machine guns. The Sunday Express sent a team of reporters out to investigate the problem and their story of June 20, 1999 said, "In recent months there have been a frightening number of shootings in Britain's major cities, despite new laws banning gun ownership after the Dunblane tragedy. Our investigation established that guns are available through means open to any criminally minded individual." The government is expected to respond by further tightening the laws on weapons of all sorts. Additional regulations controlling knives and airguns are said to be in the works, although this might be likened to beating a dead horse. The very act of armed self defense is already punishable by law. That right has been handed over to the government in return for a promise of protection. Perhaps motor vehicles need to be more heavily regulated as well. According to a commercial security report titled "New Wave in Retail Crime", British bandits are using vehicles to smash storefronts in a type of crime called "ramraiding", which would be impractical if shopkeepers had the option of arming themselves. The report states that, "Many retailers have actually gone out of business because of the repeated attacks on their premises." This recent rise in crime is part of an upward trend that correlates well with the gradual tightening of gun control over the last several decades. The relationship between increasing gun control and rising crime is well documented in a scholarly 1999 report by Olsen and Kopel, "All the Way Down the Slippery Slope - Gun Prohibition in England". The traditional view of England as a low crime society has also been seriously damaged by the 1998 study titled, "Crime and Justice in the United States and in England and Wales", which is available from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics. This report concludes that English crime rates in the period from 1981 to 1996 were actually higher than in the United States due to differences in the way crimes are reported. The negative result from gun control laws should not surprise us. American cities have had similar counterproductive results whenever gun control has been implemented locally. Reports from Australia are similar. It is no coincidence that crime typically goes up after a government enacts new gun restrictions. Several American researchers and criminologists have explored this effect. Whenever people give up their right to self defense in return for a promise of government protection, the results have been negative. No amount of social engineering will change this basic consequence of human nature. Unfortunately, the downward progression of gun control goes only one way. British subjects will never regain the basic human right to armed self defense. Proponents of gun control in America have a lot of explaining to do. Unfortunately, with the aid of their media allies, this new information will probably be ignored completely or brushed off with a few carefully chosen sound bites. The author is an optometrist in Vancouver, Washington and moderator of an e-mail list for discussion of gun issues in Washington State. He may be contacted by e-mail at: mb@e-z.net http://www.planettimes.com/index.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 00 08:41:49 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: More info on "moms for guns" (fwd) On Jan 20, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >---------- > > From: Moms For Guns > > To: moms4guns@yahoo.com > > Subject: Armed Informed Mothers March Update 1/17/2000 > > Date: Monday, January 17, 2000 3:13 AM > > > > FROM THE SECOND AMENDMENT SISTERS > > Armed Informed Mothers March Update 1/17/2000 > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Please reply to: moms4guns@yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Greetings to our fellow marchers and supporters! > > > > Much has been going on in the past week. The big news > > is that our website is up and running. The address is > > http://www.northstar90.com/MillionMomMarch/. Changes > > are being made to the site on a daily basis as new > > information and ideas come in, so please visit and > > visit often! > > > > You can join the Moms4Guns web ring. If you would > > like to add your site to our web ring, the > > instructions are at > > http://www.northstar90.com/MillionMomMarch/moms4guns.htm. > > > > > > We also have a new mailing address and toll-free > > number as follows: > > > > SAS/AIMM > > 18484 Preston Rd., Suite 102#141 > > Dallas, Texas 75252 > > > > Phone: 877-271-6216 > > > > Many of you have written to ask what we are doing and > > plan to do. Hopefully, most of your questions will be > > addressed on the website and in future updates from > > us. The email response has been overwhelming and > > makes it impossible to personally reply to everyone. > > If you have a specific request or need, we ask that > > you please make it obvious in the subject line of your > > email. We do read every email. Questions are grouped > > together for response in our updates. > > > > WHAT ARE WE DOING? > > We are organizing women from across the country to > > counter the Million Mom March. These women are > > pushing Congress to further infringe upon our right to > > bear arms. We want to show Congress and the nation > > that one million pro-gun control women do not > > represent the millions of freedom-loving women in our > > country. Read about the Million Mom March at > > http://www.millionmommarch.com/ to see what they are > > up to. We must have numbers and a strong showing in > > order to represent the real America. > > > > WHEN ARE WE DOING IT? > > The Million Mom March is scheduled for Mother s Day, > > May 14, 2000. That is when we will also be there to > > represent the rest of America. > > > > WHAT ABOUT ACCOMODATIONS AND TRAVEL? > > We have a committee working on travel arrangements and > > accommodations and will have more news about this in > > the coming weeks. Many have written either inquiring > > about car pools or offering to car pool. We will put > > this list together as they come in and will make > > available to you people from your area who wish to > > travel together. If you have an interest in car > > pooling to D.C., please let us know and enter the word > > CAR POOL in the subject line of your email. Also > > please be specific as to the area from where you are > > traveling. > > > > HOW CAN I HELP? > > Now, this is our favorite inquiry! We need help from > > all around the country. Anything you can do from > > forwarding this email to everyone in your address book > > from handing out flyers at gun shows, dropping flyers > > off at gun shops, help coordinate volunteers in your > > area please let us know. > > > > We need one person from every state to be a State > > Coordinator. In each state we need several Local > > Coordinators to help in more local areas such as towns > > or counties. Note that this is only for the next 12 > > weeks or so. The word needs to go out and go out > > fast-- so that people can make travel plans. If you > > are able to help in either capacity or want more > > information, please write to us and include > > Coordinator in the subject line of your email. > > > > As a footnote, we are now getting requests to appear > > on radio talk shows that will give us good publicity. > > We have already been mentioned on several stations. > > We need your eyes and ears to help us reach more > > people. Send us your suggestions for radio shows, > > magazines (especially more localized and less known > > publications), shooting groups and any other outlet > > which you believe would help in our cause. > > > > We started on our mission of truth only three weeks > > ago on a Free Republic thread > > (http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3873813e66a1.htm). > > A handful of women have given up large parts of their > > lives to see that the rest of the women of America are > > not represented by the gun control crowd in > > Washington. This is a large country. Getting the > > truth to the entire nation is a big job at best. > > Please join us and volunteer in any manner. Time is > > short and critical. > > > > Many thanks to all of you who have already donated so > > much time and effort. Your continued support, > > encouragement and shared love of our very liberties > > are our inspiration. > > > > > > S.A.S Executive Committee > > Debbie, Dianne, Juli, Kim and Mari > > > > > > ===== > > "People who melt their guns to make plows will plow for those who don't." > ~~ Thomas Jefferson [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 00 20:50:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: National ID Card Back from the Dead... (fwd) On Jan 20, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Here we go again. What the wording in this seems to imply I think we can all understand. Huck spiker wrote: > From: apc@americanpolicy.org > > *********Sledgehammer********* > ACTION ALERT > > From the American Policy Center > Tom DeWeese, President > > American Policy Center > 13873 Park Center Road > Herndon, VA 20171 > 703-925-0881 > FAX: 703-925-0991 > apc@americanpolicy.org > www.americanpolicy.org > > National Identification Card > Back from the Dead... > > It was just this past October that legislation which established a green > light for creating a National ID system was repealed through the courageous > efforts of Senator Richard Shelby, numerous Congressmen and the protests of > hundreds of thousands of Americans like you and me. Now, four months > later, it has been resurrected. > > Congressman Bill Barrett (R-NE) has introduced HR 3429, the Legal > Employment Authentication Program (LEAP) Act of 1999, a bill that will > completely reinstate the federal ID system. Barrett's pandering to federal > bureaucrats and big business--both of whom want the federal government to > gather information on you for their benefit--will overturn our hard-earned > victory. > > You and I must react swiftly and with force--before this new effort to > shackle Americans with "Big Brother's" chains has a chance to gain favor in > Congress. If passed, Barrett's bill will make it federal law that all > Americans must carry a national identification card at all times. > > You will be required to show your ID card in order to cash a check, get on > a plane or open a bank account. Without your national ID card you will not > be able to get medical care or get a job. That's right-it gives the > federal government the power to clear all hiring decisions where even a 1% > error in the data banks could result in 600,000 wrongful work > denials. Think of what such an error in your medical file would mean! All > of your personal information like income, medical records and personal > family business will all be put into one massive federal data bank in order > to make the card valid. > > This is an invasion of your privacy. It is an invasion of your > Constitutional rights. It is an outrage. > > We must exert pressure to bury this legislation NOW in order to avoid a > long and costly battle. In addition to calling our own Congressmen we must > call Congressman Bill Goodling, Chariman of the House Committee on > Education and the Workforce. His committee will decide whether or not to > approve HR 3429 and move it to the floor of the House of Representatives > for a vote. In short, whether or not we are shackled with a National ID > card is in Chairman Goodling's hands. > > ACTION ITEM > > 1. Call Congressman Goodling, Chairman of the House Committee on Education > and the Workforce at (202) 225-4527 and tell him you oppose HR 3429 and any > other effort which would ultimately give rise to a national ID system. > > 2. Call your Congressman (Capitol Hill Switchboard toll-free: > 888-456-1414 or 202-225-3121) and make him understand that any attempt to > support such an invasion of our liberties is unprincipled and dishonorable > for one who was entrusted with the protection of such liberties. Urge him > to oppose HR 3429. > > ******************************************** > To unsubscribe from the APC Action Alert System, write to > apc@americanpolicy.org and put "unsubsribe" in the subject with your email > address in the body of the message. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #310 *************************