From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #313 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 02 : Number 313 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 00 11:16:13 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Danger, Danger (fwd) On Jan 25, George T. Felbeck, Jr. wrote: >-----Original Message----- >From: Bill Vance >To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > >Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 12:01 PM >Subject: Danger, Danger (fwd) > > >>On Jan 24, Joe Sylvester wrote: >> >>[-------------------- text of forwarded message >follows --------------------] >> >>Congress is back in session tommorrow. >> >>Watch your guns..And your checkbook. >> >> >> >> The Second Amendment is the RESET button >> of the United States Constitution. >> ---Doug McKay" >> >>Joe Sylvester >>Don't Tread On Me ! >> >>[------------------------- end of forwarded >message ------------------------] >>-Dear Mr. Vance: Our local pastor says there is no such statement in the >Christian Bible such as you have quoted above as being the words of Jesus. >Do you have the biblical chapter and verse where the above is stated? If >so, I would be very appreciative of you sending it on to me. Many thanks >for your consideration. > >Sincerely, >George T. Felbeck, Jr. gfelbeck@wyoming.com Your local pastor should spend more time reading the Bible. The passage varies slightly with the particular version, (translation), of the Bible you might be reading, but it should read something like this: "Take your purse, and likewise your scrip, and let he who hath no weapon sell his garment and buy a sword." Luke 22:36 I'm told that the specific garment refered to, was the very expensive and finely made one that indicated which of the tribes of Israel a person belonged to. While Jesus was very much against the _mis-use_ of wwapons, he himself was no stranger to the use of arms. Whips, scourges, and cat o' 9 tails etc., are categorized as weapons, and as you may recall, he did whip the money lenders from the temple. Further, he comes not to bring peace, but a sword. I hope that's of help. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 00 12:21:56 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: State Governor List (fwd) On Jan 25, Don Cline wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] For those who would like to send messages to State Governors exhorting = them to not sign onerous and unconstitutional legislation into (color = of) law, here is a list of the fifty state governors with e-mail, = website, or snail mail addresses as appropriate: Governors' E-mail and Webpage contact addresses: Alabama - Don Siegelman: http://www.governor.state.al.us/office/email/email.html Alaska - Tony Knowles http://www.gov.state.ak.us/emailform.html Arizona - Jane Dee Hull: azgov@azgov.state.az.us Arkansas - Mike Huckabee: http://www.state.ar.us/governor/gems/eletter/commentform.html California - Gray Davis: graydavis@governor.ca.gov Colorado - Bill Owens: comments@state.co.us (Attn - Governor Bill Owens) Connecticut - John G. Rowland: Governor.Rowland@po.state.ct.us Delaware - Tom Carper: ssnyder@state.de.us Florida - Jeb Bush: fl_governor@eog.state.fl.us Georgia - Roy E. Barnes: http://www.gagovernor.org/governor/contact.html Hawaii - Ben Cayetano: gov@gov.state.hi.us Idaho - Dirk Kempthorne: http://www2.state.id.us/gov/correspondence.htm Illinois - George H. Ryan: governor@state.il.us Indiana - Frank O'Bannon: http://www.ai.org/gov/gov_mail.html Iowa - Thomas Vilsack: http://www.state.ia.us/governor/comments/capitol_correspond/index.html Kansas - Bill Graves: http://www.ink.org/public/governor/comment.html Kentucky - Paul E. Patton: governor@mail.state.ky.us Louisiana - M. J. "Mike" Foster: http://www.gov.state.la.us/governor/contact2.htm Maine - Angus S. King, Jr.: governor@state.me.us Maryland - Parris N. Glendening: governor@gov.state.md.us Massachusetts - Paul Cellucci: GOffice@state.ma.us Michigan - John Engler: http://www.migov.state.mi.us/MichiganGovernor.htm Minnesota - Jesse Ventura: http://www.mainserver.state.mn.us/governor/email_form.html Missouri - Governor Carnahan: No E-mail, but four different snail mail addresses/phone numbers including the Mansion, for Pete's sake: http://www.gov.state.mo.us/contact.htm Mississippi - David Ronald Musgrove: TBA - See http://www.governor.state.ms.us/ for latest info. Montana - Mark Racicot: Governor's Office P.O. Box 200801 Helena MT 59620.=20 FAX: 406-444-5529 Voice: 406-444-3111 Nebraska - Mike Johanns: mjohanns@notes.state.ne.us Nevada - Kenny Guinn: http://www.state.nv.us/gov/mailgov.htm New Hampshire - Jeanne Shaheen: State of New Hampshire=20 Office of the Governor=20 State House, Room 208-214=20 Concord, NH 03301-4990=20 (603) 271-2121 New Jersey - Christine Todd Whitman: http://www.state.nj.us/governor/contact.htm New Mexico - Gary E. Johnson: gjohnson@gov.state.nm.us New York - George E. Pataki: gov.pataki@chamber.state.ny.us North Carolina: Governor James B. Hunt Jr.=20 Office of the Governor 20301 Mail Service Center=20 Raleigh, NC 27699-0301 Fax - (919)715-3175 or (919)733-2120 North Dakota - Edward T. Shafer: governor@state.nd.us Ohio - Bob Taft webmaster@das.state.oh.us Oklahoma - Frank Keating: governor@gov.state.ok.us Oregon - John A. Kitzhaber, M.D.: http://www.governor.state.or.us/governor/mail/mailform.html Pennsylvania - Tom Ridge: http://www.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Governor/govmail.html Rhode Island - Lincoln C. Almond: rigov@gov.state.ri.us South Carolina: Jim Hodges: governor@govoepp.state.sc.us South Dakota - William J. Janklow: sdgov@state.sd.us Tennesee - Don Sundquist: dsundquist@mail.state.tn.us Texas - George W. Bush: http://www.governor.state.tx.us/e-mail.html Utah - Mike Leavitt: governor@state.ut.us Vermont - Howard Dean, M.D. (No e-mail) Lt. Gov. Douglas A. Racine: ltgov@leg.state.vt.us Virginia - Jim Gilmore: http://www.state.va.us/governor/govmail.htm Washington - Gary Locke: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/govemail.htm West Virginia - Cecil H. Underwood: governor@governor.state.wv.us Wisconsin - Tommy G. Thompson wisgov@gov.state.wi.us Wyoming - Jim Geringer: governor@missc.state.wy.us - -- Don Cline frdmftr@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~frdmftr To all Socialist, Communist, and Marxist Anti-Gunners: I'll be your huckleberry. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms brought about * The Parliamentary Revolution * The Magna Carta * The American Revolution * The world's first and only nation of liberty. Without it you are nothing but a feudal serf. EXERCISE your Right to Keep and Bear Arms or KNEEL BEFORE YOUR MASTER. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:44:42 -0800 From: "Ken Mitchell" Subject: RE: Danger, Danger (fwd) > > I hope everyone here will do this. If you give money to a modern > christian church the likelihood that you are working against your own > ethical right to self preservation is -very- -high-. Did God give you > -life-, so that you could "turn the other cheek" and be murdered by some > criminal who is unhappy that you were only carrying fifty bucks? Should > you -gamble- your most precious gift on the mercy of a violent (ie > threatening) deviant (ie criminal)? Toss life to the wind and see if > it's taken be mere whimsy of some criminals knife? Most church > hierarchies believe the answer to that is yes. >If they're part of the Greater Seattle Council of Churches then > -your- church financially supports victim disarmament. Go and -talk- to > them about Luke 22:36, -ask- them if they understand that the > Commandments talk about murder and not "killing", and be ready for the > surprise of your life. I certainly wish I had been. Boyd Kneeland, > former member Newport United Presbyterian. This doesn't apply only to Christians, but also to Jews. The Torah teaches us that we may use lethal force against a thief who comes into our homes in the night, and the Talmud tells us that we may kill an aggressor to save a life, to prevent a rape, or to defend ourselves. (Exact citations from the Torah and Talmud are available at the JPFO web site, I believe.) Alas, most "mainstream" rabbis believe, as do most "mainstream" Christian ministers, that lethal force is ALWAYS wrong. But tell that to the martyrs in the Warsaw Ghetto. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "We are ready to accept almost any explanation of the present crisis of our civilization except one: that the present state of the world may be the result of genuine error on our own part and that the pursuit of some of our most cherished ideals has apparently produced results utterly different from those which we expected". Friedrich Hayek, "The Road to Serfdom" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:10:55 -0800 From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Danger, Danger (fwd) > Ken Mitchell wrote: > > > > > I hope everyone here will do this. If you give money to a modern snip > > surprise of your life. I certainly wish I had been. Boyd Kneeland, > > former member Newport United Presbyterian. > > This doesn't apply only to Christians, but also to Jews. The Torah teaches > us that we may use lethal force against a thief who comes into our homes in > the night, and the Talmud tells us that we may kill an aggressor to save a > life, to prevent a rape, or to defend ourselves. (Exact citations from the > Torah and Talmud are available at the JPFO web site, I believe.) Alas, most > "mainstream" rabbis believe, as do most "mainstream" Christian ministers, > that lethal force is ALWAYS wrong. But tell that to the martyrs in the > Warsaw Ghetto. Absolutely. Just last night I got halfway through Begnini's "Life is beautiful" before the nazi thing got to emotional for me to enjoy it (you know, the scene where Mom is told the kids stay off work during the day so that can be carted off and -gassed-). I just, well, frankly it brings home the erosion of our rights like a hammerblow, for me personally. So rather then cram guns and ammo into the tape slot I hit rewind and went and spent money on the JPFO site, wich -always- makes me feel better : ) I'm sure every religion on the planet has faced abuse by "leaders" who would bend basic principles to the current fashion. I didn't mean to overlook or belittle any other beliefs (Islam is another where abuse is obvious IMO), I just typed out of personal experience. Thanks for your followup. I hope others are reading and doing here too. B > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "We are ready to accept almost any explanation of the present crisis of our > civilization except one: that the present state of the world may be the > result of genuine error on our own part and that the pursuit of some of our > most cherished ideals has apparently produced results utterly different from > those which we expected". Friedrich Hayek, "The Road to Serfdom" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great .sig - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:03:26 -0600 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Constitutional Crisis/Opportunity for CA, NZ, and AU ? R Might be a good time for these folks to get REAL Consitutions, ones which protect fundamental rights from government intrusions, regardless of whether 50% + 1 of elected reps vote for them or not. Including of course the RKBA. http://www.investigatemagazine.com/news.htm The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:08:58 -0700 From: "George T. Felbeck, Jr." Subject: Thanks for all the great responses This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To all who so generously responded to my inquiry: Many thanks to those of you who very kindly answered my request for = information regarding the source of the biblical quotation regarding = selling one's garment and buying a sword. Your responses were extremely = informative and I learned a lot about the reaction of different churches = (and religions) to the problem of self-protection. Maybe I should send = all my questions out on the net, considering the information I got on my = first try! Thanks again to all of you. G. T. Felbeck, Jr. - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
To all who so generously responded to my = inquiry:
 
    Many thanks to those of you who very kindly = answered my=20 request for information regarding the source of the biblical quotation = regarding=20 selling one's garment and buying a sword.  Your responses were = extremely=20 informative and I learned a lot about the reaction of different churches = (and=20 religions) to the problem of self-protection.  Maybe I should send = all my=20 questions out on the net, considering the information I got on my first=20 try!  Thanks again to all of you.  G. T. Felbeck,=20 Jr.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 00 08:26:03 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Thanks for all the great responses Just as a pointer, it would be best if you turn off your, "send html/MIME", option(s), as well as attachments on whatever email/news software you're using. Some e-lists allow it, but on many you'll catch flack for it. Basically, it adds all sorts of garbage to the post in lots of e-mail/news reading software, and jumps the file size up to 3-10 or more times the size needed to get your message across, wasting storage space, and transmission time/bandwidth in the process. So-called, "Rich Text", does this, too. Also, attachments are a common way to spread viruses, so most people have quite using them. The extra cop(y/ies) of the message embedded in the garbage doesn't help any of the above, either. The garbage is there, whether you see it or not, so it's a case of whether your e-mail/news software uses it or not. Check your post below, and you'll see what I mean. This one isn't too awfully bad as such things go, but I've seen posts a quarter the size of this one that generated garbage the size of the Queen Mary. On Jan 26, George T. Felbeck, Jr. wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >To all who so generously responded to my inquiry: > > Many thanks to those of you who very kindly answered my request for = >information regarding the source of the biblical quotation regarding = >selling one's garment and buying a sword. Your responses were extremely = >informative and I learned a lot about the reaction of different churches = >(and religions) to the problem of self-protection. Maybe I should send = >all my questions out on the net, considering the information I got on my = >first try! Thanks again to all of you. G. T. Felbeck, Jr. > >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0 >Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > >http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > >
To all who so generously responded to my = >inquiry:
>
 
>
    Many thanks to those of you who very kindly = >answered my=20 >request for information regarding the source of the biblical quotation = >regarding=20 >selling one's garment and buying a sword.  Your responses were = >extremely=20 >informative and I learned a lot about the reaction of different churches = >(and=20 >religions) to the problem of self-protection.  Maybe I should send = >all my=20 >questions out on the net, considering the information I got on my first=20 >try!  Thanks again to all of you.  G. T. Felbeck,=20 >Jr.
> >------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF67D4.9A1BBCE0-- > > >- > - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 00 07:43:28 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slickmisc] ACFC: Child Support Destroying the American Family (fwd) On Jan 27, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY Talk about someone with a right to be p*ssed off because they aren't being treated fairly in this Land of Liberty, try a divorced father not allowed to to see his kids, and spending nights in jail because he can't afford his bills. How fundamental do you have to be? 200 years ago we thought we did away with debtors' prison, but 21st century politicians/judges are still harvesting votes by incarcerating debtors. But that's not the worst of it. It's getting demonstrably worse. Even worse than the horror stories than acfc tells. As bad as it is, it's getting worse. You hear me? Worser. Badder. Meaner. Stupider. Young males are now learning that fatherhood is a temporary condition. When it comes to family matters they have no recognized equity. Their kids, no, their wife's/girl friends' kids belong to the mother and/or state. Realistically, they know, they are little more than an outside observer to the new family unit. They have learned to invest less emotion and love than their fathers dared. It's destroying our society and there are more people applauding than aware. Rich Martin Editor of Slick *************** Subj: Fwd: ACFC: Child Support Destroying the American Family From: Busguy8742 - ----------------- Forwarded Message: Date: 1/23/2000 11:48:31 AM Central Standard Time From: acfclist@usa.net (ACFC Website) Thanks to Stephen Baskerville for sending us the following. ACFC ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Q: Is court-ordered child support doing more harm than good? Yes: This engine of the divorce industry is destroying families and the Constitution. By Stephen Baskerville . . . . Geoff came home one day to find a note on the kitchen table saying his wife had taken their two children to live with their grandparents. He quit his job as head of his department in a university and followed. He was summoned to court on eight-hours' notice and, without a lawyer and without being permitted to speak, was stripped of custody rights and ordered to stay away from his wife and children most of the time. Because he had no job, no car and no place to live, his mother cancelled a pending sale of her house, and he moved in with her. Geoff and his mother now pay about $1,200 a month to his wife and her wealthy parents, and he is left to live and care for his two children on about $700 a month. A judge also threatened him with jail if he did not pay a lawyer he had not hired. When his temporary job ends, the payments must continue, and he is not permitted to care for the children while unemployed. He also expects to be coerced into paying more legal fees. He has never been charged with any wrongdoing, either criminal or civil. . . . . Geoff's experience increasingly is common. In fact, it is epidemic. Massive numbers of fathers who are accused of no wrongdoing now are separated from their children, plundered for everything they have, publicly vilified and incarcerated without trial. . . . . About 24 million American children live in homes where the father is not present, with devastating consequences for both the children and society. Crime, drug and alcohol abuse, truancy, teenage pregnancy, suicide and psychological disorders are a few of the tragic consequences. Conventional wisdom assumes that the fathers of these children have abandoned them. In this case the conventional wisdom is dangerously wrong. It is far more likely that an "absent" father is forced away rather than leaving voluntarily. . . . . In his new study, Divorced Dads: Shattering the Myths, Sanford Braver of Arizona State University has shown conclusively that the so-called "deadbeat dad," one who deserts his children and evades child support, "does not exist in significant numbers." Braver confirms that, contrary to popular belief, at least two-thirds of divorces are filed by mothers, who have virtual certainty of getting the children and a huge portion of the fathers' income, regardless of any fault on their part. The title of Ashton Applewhite's 1997 book says it succinctly: Cutting Loose: Why Women Who End Their Marriages Do So Well. . . . . Other studies have found even higher percentages of divorces filed by mothers, and lawyers report that, when children are involved, divorce is the initiative of the mother in virtually all instances. Moreover, few of these divorces involve grounds such as desertion, adultery or violence. The most frequent reasons given are "growing apart" or "not feeling loved or appreciated." (Surveys consistently show that fathers are much more likely than mothers to believe parents should remain married.) Yet, as Braver reports, despite this involuntary loss of their children, 90 percent of these deserted fathers regularly pay court-ordered child support (unemployment being the main reason for nonpayment), often at exorbitant levels and many without any rights to see their children. Most make heroic efforts to stay in contact with the children from whom they are forcibly separated. . . . . The plight of unmarried inner-city fathers is harder to quantify, but there is no reason to assume they love their children any less. A recent study conducted in Washington with low-income fathers ages 16 to 25 found that 63 percent had only one child; 82 percent had children by only one mother; 50 percent had been in a serious relationship with the mother at the time of pregnancy; only 3 percent knew the mother of their child only a little; 75 percent visited their child in the hospital; 70 percent saw their children at least once a week; 50 percent took their child to the doctor; large percentages reported bathing, feeding, dressing and playing with their children; and 85 percent provided informal child support in the form of cash or purchased goods such as diapers, clothing and toys. University of Texas anthropologist Laura Lein and Rutgers University professor Kathryn Edin recently found that low-income fathers often are far worse off than their government-assisted families, "but economically and emotionally marginal as many of these fathers are, they still represent a large proportion of low-income fathers who continue to make contributions to their children's households and to maintain at least some level of relationship with those children." . . . . Yet the voices of these fathers rarely are heard in the public arena. Instead we hear the imprecations of a government conducting what may be the most massive witch-hunt in this country's history. Never before have we seen the spectacle of the highest officials in the land -- including the president, the attorney general and other Cabinet secretaries, and leading members of Congress from both parties -- using their offices as platforms from which publicly to vilify private citizens who have been convicted of nothing and who have no opportunity to reply. . . . . Under the guise of pursuing deadbeat dads, we now are seeing mass incarcerations without trial, without charge and without counsel, while the media and civil libertarians look the other way. We also have government officials freely entering the homes and raiding the bank accounts of citizens who are accused of nothing and simply helping themselves to whatever they want -- including their children, their life savings and their private papers and effects, all with hardly a word of protest noted. . . . . And these are fathers who are accused of nothing. Those who face trumped-up accusations of child abuse also must prove their innocence before they can hope to see their children. Yet now it is well established that most child abuse takes place in the homes of single mothers. A recent study from the Department of Health and Human Services, or HHS, found that "almost two-thirds [of child abusers] were females." Given that male perpetrators are not necessarily fathers but much more likely to be boyfriends and stepfathers, fathers emerge as the least likely child abusers. A British study by Robert Whelan in 1993 titled Broken Homes and Battered Children concluded that a child living with a single mother is up to 33 times more likely to be abused than a child living in an intact family. The argument of many men legally separated from their families is that the real abusers have thrown the father out of the family so they can abuse his children with impunity. . . . . In Virginia alone the state Division of Child Support Enforcement now is "pursuing" 428,000 parents for up to $1.6 billion, according to its director, Nick Young. In a state of fewer than 7 million people, the parents of 552,000 children are being "pursued." That is the parents of roughly half the state's minor dependent children. HHS claims that almost 20 million fathers in the nation are being pursued for something close to $50 billion. We are being asked to believe that half the fathers in America have abandoned their children willfully. . . . . These figures essentially are meaningless. If they indicate anything it is the scale on which families are being taken over by a destructive and dangerous machine consisting of judges, lawyers, psychotherapists, social workers, bureaucrats and women's groups -- all of whom have a direct financial interest in separating as many children from their fathers as possible, vilifying and plundering the fathers and turning them into criminals. The machine is so riddled with conflicts of interest that it is little less than a system of organized crime. Here is how it works: Judges are appointed and promoted by the lawyers and "custody evaluators," into whose pockets they funnel fees; the judges also are influenced with payments of federal funds from child-support enforcement bureaucracies that depend on a constant supply of ejected fathers; child-support guidelines are written by the bureaucracies that enforce them and by private collection companies that have a financial stake in creating as many arrearages and "deadbeat dads" as possible. These guidelines are then enacted by legislators, some of whom divert the enforcement contracts to their own firms, sometimes even taking personal kickbacks (as charged in a recent federal indictment in Arkansas). Legislators who control judicial appointments also get contracts (and kickbacks, again the case in Arkansas) for providing legal services at government expense in the courts of their appointees. And, of course, custody decisions and child-support awards must be generous enough to entice more mothers to take the children and run, thus bringing a fresh supply of fathers into the system. In short, child support is the financial fuel of the divorce industry. It has very little to do with the needs of children and everything to do with the power and profit of large numbers of adults. . . . . For their part, politicians can register their concern for fatherless children relatively cheaply by endlessly (and futilely) stepping up "child-support" collection while creating programs ostensibly designed to "reunite" fathers with their children. Even some fatherhood advocates jump on the bandwagon, attacking "absent" fathers while holding their tongues about the judicial kidnapping of their children. Though almost everyone now acknowledges the importance of fathers, for too many there are more political and financial rewards in targeting them as scapegoats than in the more costly task of upholding the constitutional rights of fathers and their children not to be ripped apart. . . . . There is no evidence that endless "crackdowns" on evicted fathers serve any purpose other than enriching those in the cracking-down business. With child- support enforcement now a $3 billion national industry, the pursuit of the elusive deadbeat yields substantial profits, mostly at public expense. "In Florida last year," writes Kathleen Parker in the Orlando Sentinel, "taxpayers paid $4.5 million for the state to collect $162,000 from fathers"; and the story is the same elsewhere. . . . . Instead of the easy fiction that massive numbers of fathers are suddenly and inexplicably abandoning their children, perhaps what we should believe instead is that a lucrative racket now is cynically using our children as weapons and tools to enrich lawyers and provide employment for judges and bureaucrats. Rather than pursuing ever greater numbers of fathers with ever more Draconian punishments, the Justice Department should be investigating the kind of crimes it was created to pursue -- such as kidnapping, extortion and racketeering -- in the nation's family courts. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Children Need BOTH Parents! The American Coalition for Fathers and Children For Membership information call 1-800-978-DADS or see ACFC's homepages at: http://www.acfc.org Additional information is located at: http://www.secondwives.org Listserver: acfclist@usa.net Listowner: ACFC To subscribe/unsubscribe send a message to: acfclist@usa.net Message in subject line: subscribe/unsubscribe acfc To temporarily suspend email send a message to: acfclist@usa.net Message in subject line: set acfc nomail The ACFC List Serve provides timely information to fathers, second wives, and others seeking restoration of fatherhood in America and the world. ACFC does not endorse or approve the views or opinions expressed by contributers, which have been provided only as a service to our list serve subscribers. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Reply-To: acfclist@usa.net [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 00 15:47:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: The Dark Side of the Tax State (2/2) (fwd) On Jan 27, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Thus the question is, how much of your money is owned by the tax man? To what extent are you a tax slave by the numbers? Tax slavery has been growing in each decade throughout this century, meaning tax freedom day has been slipping away: Tax Freedom Day: In 1902 was January 31 In 1922 was February 17 In 1948 was March 28 In 1958 was April 10 In 1968 was April 24 In 1978 was April 30 In 1988 was May 2 In 1998 was May 10 All indication are, over the long term, that tax freedom day will continually be delayed until we become half-slave and half-free tax wise. In 1858, Abraham Lincoln, referring to chattel slavery said, "I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free." As the new millennium begins, we should ask ourselves the same question with regards to tax slavery, by the numbers. In the ancient world, chattel slavery was tolerated with little complaint. It wasn't too bad, so it seemed if we look at the philosophers and leaders of that time. That seems to be our current attitude with regard to our tax slavery. It is not too bad, and as much as we hate to admit it, our Founders were a bunch of rabble-rousers when it came to taxation. We tolerate what they would have given their lives to prevent. They read Montesquieu and believe him more than any other writer, and in his great work, The Spirit of Laws, he wrote about tax slavery, and they wanted none of it and British taxes qualified, as a "badge of slavery." In protest against British stamp taxes, they formed an underground organization called "The Sons of Liberty," to resist British taxes. They paraded through the streets of New York, Boston, and Philadelphia, singing an anti-tax ballad, with the following chorus: Parliament's voice has condemned us by law to be slaves, Brave Boys! Has condemned us by law to be SLAVES. The historical records of these ballads have the world "SLAVES" capitalized. The British repealed the stamp tax act and the Bostonians erected a monument to commemorate the repeal. Patrick Henry recorded the monument in his writings, on which there was the Goddess of Liberty, with the wings of an angel. On the monument were the words -- it was better to die than be a SLAVE. Nine years later Patrick Henry picked up the same theme in his famous speech in the Virginia convention in 1775, a speech every school child knows the words, "Give me liberty or give me death!" Our schoolchildren should also learn the rest of the speech: There is no retreat, but in submission and slavery. Our chains are forged. Their clanking may be heard on the Plains of Boston! The war is inevitable -- and let it come!! I repeat sir, let it come!...Is life so dear or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? The imagery is powerful. Slaves were manacled with chains forged by blacksmiths; as the slave moved about, the "clanking" of the chains could be heard. Tax slavery could not have been depicted by the Founders in more powerful words. Fear of tax slavery did not die with the Revolution, but lived on among our progenitors for well over a century, until the 20th century. Within 20 years after the Revolution, there were three significant tax revolts even with representation, in which a lot of people died fighting domestic taxes they didn't like. The Jeffersonian revolution in 1800 was against Federalist taxes, which were repealed and did not return until the Civil War era. Southerners raised the tax slave issue in their acts of secession in 1861. After the Civil War fear of tax slavery emerged again when there was a movement to introduce an income tax in peacetime. An income tax was a war measure, so it was believed, and had no place in a free society during peacetime. The Atlantic magazine also attacked tax slavery, and with this and other major periodicals attacking income taxation as a slave tax, it is no wonder the movement died. And when the income tax finally was enacted in a Populist era (1894), it was thrown out by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional. Our Tax "No Free Zone" When the 20th century began, fear of tax slavery all but disappeared, and we haven't heard hardly a word on the subject. Big government and big wars demand big taxes. Big taxes will inevitably lead to tax slavery as we buck an iron law of history that when taxes are excessive people will rebel in one form or another, a theme emphasized by Montesquieu and so vividly demonstrated by our Founders. Often, throughout history when governments crack-down on angry taxpayers it has been more like putting gasoline on a smoldering fire, and has often burned down the very free society it was supposed to protect. Diocletian saved the Roman Empire by tax enslavement, and isn't our Congress in the same pickle? In both societies there developed a strong inclination to evade and avoid taxation, and tax slavery apparently was the only option for the government, a kind of tax martial law against an unruly society. Our supposedly freedom loving leaders don't think of freedom the way our Founders did. Freedom today has nothing to do with taxes -- that's a "no free zone," like the "no fly zone" over Iraq. If taxpayers won't comply then their freedoms will have to go. Thus there is no remorse by Congress in transforming our tax system from an honor system to a tax spy system and slave system, Diocletian style. Going back to the pre-1970 days, what would happen if your bank account wasn't photographed? If income from banks, stocks, and bonds was not reported? If part-time income wasn't reported? If real estate wasn't reported? If cash wasn't reported? If Americans living overseas weren't hounded by the IRS? If babysitter income wasn't reported? Housekeepers? Gambling? If fines were used instead of psychopathic punishments? Would the system work as it did for the first 50 years? Apparently not, so our Congress and Treasury seem to think. Thus we have two options: First, maintain the income tax slave system, adding additional muscle from time to time as needed; or, tear down the income tax system and start over with a tax system the people will respect. For the present, we pass on to our children in the 21st century the first option. - ----------- Charles Adams is the author of For Good and Evil: The Impact of Taxes on the Course of Civilization, Second Edition (1999), from which this essay was adapted. From the Ludwig von Mises Institute www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=372&FS=The+Dark+Side+of+the+Tax+State [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #313 *************************