From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #329 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, April 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 329 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:24:33 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: Not even close to sufficient A true conservative (Conservator of the Constitution) would make any step exceeding the powers of the gov extremely expensive. If you want a stable gov: Anyone who votes for legislation, and any judge who makes a ruling, which is later found to contravene the Constitution, is removed from office and put on trial for violation of their Oath of Office. Guilt is presumed, and innocence must be established by the defendant. Gov power has an intrinsic high-gain positive feedback loop. Stability can only be obtained by interpreting gov powers in the most restrictive possible way, and the rights of the people in the most liberal way. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 12:40 AM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: [Lis-LEAF] A proposal to make Congress > accountable] (fwd) > > > We should be pushing this on the State level, too! > > > On Apr 19, Margi Crook wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:56:33 -0800 > From: Jon Roland > Subject: [Lis-LEAF] A proposal to make Congress accountable > > The following article presents the problem that a majority of members of > Congress are now willing to pass legislation they know to be > unconstitutional, passing the buck to the federal courts to declare it > unconstitutional. The problem, of course, leaving aside the abdication of > their sworn duty, is that there is no way the federal courts can keep up > with the pace of legislation. The Supreme Court can handle only about 75 > cases a year, and it has other cases to attend to besides reviewing new > congressional acts. > > Following the article is a proposal to make Congress accountable. > Urge your > members to introduce and support it. > > ------------------------ > > Scalia Criticizes Congress > > Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia chastised Congress on Tuesday for > enacting provisions that allow quick court review of new laws > that push "the > edge of the constitutional envelope." > > "I think that is disturbing because it indicates that Congress is > increasingly abdicating its independent responsibility to be sure > that it is > being faithful to the Constitution," the justice told a > telecommunications > symposium sponsored by Michigan State University. > > "My court is fond of saying that acts of Congress come to the > court with the > presumption of constitutionality," Scalia said. "But if Congress > is going to > take the attitude that it will do anything it can get away with > and let the > Supreme Court worry about the Constitution ... then perhaps that > presumption > is unwarranted." > > Two laws struck down by the Supreme Court in recent years provided > speeded-up court review of their provisions. In 1997, the > justices threw out > a measure that sought to protect children from sexually explicit > material on > the Internet, and a year later the court threw out Congress' > effort to enact > a presidential line-item veto. > > "Congress has in recent years been pushing the edge of the constitutional > envelope so aggressively that it has begun to include special review > provisions in its more dubious offerings," Scalia said. "If you have a > legislature that is eager to push the envelope you should expect a higher > percentage of invalidations." > > ---------------End of Original Message----------------- > > A proposal to make Congress accountable > > The following may be introduced as a constitutional amendment, > and may also > be introduced as ordinary legislation and as revisions to the rules of > procedure of each House of Congress: > > ______ > > In the event that any act of Congress shall be held unconstitutional, in > whole or in part, by the Supreme Court of the United States, each > member of > each House who voted for the act shall be penalized as follows: > > 1 - On the first such instance, the privilege of voting for > legislation by > that member shall be suspended for 2 legislative days; similarly, > > 2 - On the second such instance, the privilege of voting by that member > shall be suspended for 5 legislative days; > > 3 - On the third such instance, the privilege of voting by that > member shall > be suspended for 10 legislative days; > > 4 - On the fourth such instance, the privilege of voting by that member > shall be suspended for 20 legislative days; > > 5 - On the fifth such instance, the seat of that member shall be declared > vacant, the member removed from the House and from his office, > and his seat > filled in accordance with law, except that he shall not be > eligible to fill > his vacancy, or to ever hold any office of trust of the United > States, any > State, or any territory of the United States, and to be removed from any > such office he might then hold. > > The suspension shall begin on the first legislative day following > the order > of the Supreme Court. However, the member shall be counted as present for > purpose of establishing a quorum. > > ______ > > Spread this proposal far and wide. > > --Jon > > =================================================================== > Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 > 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 04/19/00 Time: 19:56:33 > http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org > =================================================================== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Enjoy the award-winning journalism of The New York Times with > convenient home delivery. And for a limited time, get 50% off for the > first 8 weeks by subscribing. Pay by credit card and receive an > additional 4 weeks at this low introductory rate. > http://click.egroups.com/1/3102/5/_/655990/_/956199442/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Liberty's Educational Advocacy Forum > http://freedomlaw.com > promotes "action that raises the cost of State violence for its > perpetrators ... lay(ing) the basis for institutional change." > [Noam Chomsky] > > Dr. Tavel's Self Help Clinic and Sovereign Law Library > http://drtavel.com/selfhelp.htm > Not a high-tech law firm brochure, "because a lawyer is only > as smart as you make him" [Max Katz] and > "the Law . . . should be accessible to > every man and at all times." [Franz Kafka] > > For Liberty in Our Lifetime, > R.J. Tavel, JD, managing partner, > Tavel & Stewart, Public Interest Law Firm, > Bringing you "a whole new boutique of wonderful > First Amendment litigation." [J. Scalia] > http://freedomlaw.com/T&S/ > > NEW: SUBSCRIBE TO Lis-LEAF the > Learning Electronically About Freedom mailing service at > http://freedomlaw.com/FORM.html > Community email addresses: > Unsubscribe: Lis-LEAF-unsubscribe@onelist.com > List owner: Lis-LEAF-owner@onelist.com > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/Lis-LEAF > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > ------------------------] > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 00 21:01:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [newsucanuse] VIN-- pat-down search (fwd) On Apr 21, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Rediscovering the Fourth Amendment As little as 50 years ago, American movie audiences could be expected to hiss and boo as the Nazi Gestapo agent was shown insinuating himself through the passenger cars of some European train, ominously hissing, "Papers, please?" Only in totalitarian police states (Americans then understood) were citizens subject to random searches -- or any requirement that they show their "papers" at the mere whim of a suspicious government official. Then things began to change in America. Where once the Fourth Amendment ("The right of the people to be secure ... against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated") was presumed inviolate, now police complained such restrictions were making it impossible to fight the War on Drugs. The courts responded to the "pragmatic realities" of the Drug War by granting police a progressively greater presumption of "compelling need" to violate the terms of the Fourth -- first in a few cases of "fleeing suspects"; then in "random traffic stops"; finally tumbling down the slippery slope so far that today, "It's OK that you killed these innocent homeowners in their beds, as long as it was your anonymous informant who got the address wrong. But you really should pay to fix the door." Now, finally, the U.S. Supreme Court seems to be rediscovering that ancient "right of the people to be secure ..." In 1997, Steven Dewayne Bond was a passenger on a Greyhound bus en route from California to Arkansas, when the bus was stopped at an "immigration checkpoint" in Sierra Blanca, Texas. A Border Patrol agent checked the passengers' immigration status, and then felt their luggage. The agent squeezed a canvas bag in the bin over Bond's seat, and later told the court his perception of a ''brick-like object" led him to suspect it contained drugs. When the agent asked Bond if he could open the bag, the agent testified he was told, "Go ahead." Inside, the agent found a brick-shaped object covered in tape, later revealed to contain methamphetamine. Mr. Bond was convicted of drug possession and "conspiracy" (an all-purpose add-on charge, these days. Unless he manufactured the drugs from scratch, he obviously had to have "conspired" with somebody). The appeals court said the agent needed no search warrant, since Mr. Bond gave up any reasonable expectation of privacy when he "exposed" the bag to the public by putting it in the overhead bin. But on April 17, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Bond's conviction, Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist writing for the court that "Physically invasive inspection is ... more intrusive than purely visual inspection." A citizen does not waive his privacy rights when he places his belongings in a piece of luggage, under the absurd theory that he is then inviting one and all to "feel the bag in an exploratory manner," the court ruled. The 7-2 court majority is a strong one, with only Justices Antonin Scalia and Stephen Breyer dissenting, on the theory that enforcing the Fourth Amendment could "deter law enforcement officers searching for drugs" (Justice Breyer absurdly adding that travelers who want to safeguard the contents of their luggage "from public touch should plan to pack those contents in a suitcase with hard sides." Sure. And those of us travelling by air can demonstrate our reluctance to "waive our privacy rights" by simply buying luggage with lead panels designed to block the omnipresent X-Rays ... right?) Indeed, the Fourth Amendment certainly does "deter law enforcement officers searching for drugs." It doubtless does so every day. But an explicit delegation of power to Congress to fight a War on Drugs is difficult to locate -- some even arguing that the "unenumerated rights" protected by the Ninth Amendment must include the once unrestricted right to consume alcohol and other drugs, as our ancestors were free to do from 1600 to 1915 -- lest why would a constitutional amendment have been required to outlaw alcohol in 1919? I believe this is a correct and sensible reading of the Ninth. But even if the drug war were somehow legitimate, whenever a freedom specifically guaranteed by the Bill of Rights comes into conflict with the convenience of the police, the Bill of Rights must clearly prevail. If the War on Drugs cannot co-exist with the Bill of Rights, then it is time to call a halt to the War on Drugs for that reason, alone. In the meantime, the 7-2 majority of the high court managed to do the right thing in the case of Steven Dewayne Bond (Bond vs. U.S., 98-9349.) Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $24.95 postpaid by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Apr 00 23:27:21 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slickplus] HUMOR: New Scientific Discovery! (fwd) On Apr 22, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Nameloh writes: << Investigators at a major research institution recently discovered the heaviest element known to science and tentatively have named it "administratium." Administratium has been found to have no protons or electrons, thus having an atomic number of 0. It has, however, 1 neutron, 125 assistant neutrons, 75 vice neutrons and 111 assistant vice neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by a force that involves the continuous exchange of mesonlike particles called morons. The morons are surrounded by vast quantities of leptonlike particles called peons. Since it has no electrons, administratium is inert. However, it can be detected chemically as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact. According to the discoverers, a minute amount of administratium caused one reaction to take more than four days to complete when it normally could have occurred in less that a second. Administratium has a half-life of approximately three years. However, it does not decay in the usual way but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons, vice neutrons and assistant vice neutrons exchange places. In reorganization, some of the morons inevitably become neutrons, forming new isotopes. This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to speculate that administratium is formed spontaneously whenever moron concentration reaches a certain level. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as Critical Morass. >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 00 09:26:50 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: [patriot] (fwd) [piml] Fwd: 80 Million Armed Man March (SORRY)] (fwd) On Apr 24, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: schuetzen - RKBA! Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:07:29 -0500 Reply-To: patriot-owner@egroups.com Subject: [patriot] (fwd) [piml] Fwd: 80 Million Armed Man March (SORRY) On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:04:26 -0500 (CDT), Pro2Am@webtv.net wrote: To: piml@egroups.com Subject: [piml] Fwd: 80 Million Armed Man March From: Pro2Am@webtv.net Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 23:04:26 -0500 (CDT) To: vampirekillers@egroups.com Subject: 80 Million Armed Man March From: Pro2Am@webtv.net Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:21:59 -0500 (CDT)   Forwarded Message: Subj: 80 Million man march on DC, against gun control. Date: 4/19/00 10:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time From: JACK MCLAMB Subject: 80 MILLION ARMED MAN MARCH - "SCARED STRAIGHT" for the U.S. CONGRESS ! Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:01:22 Sorry, I don't understand all that you have written in your letter, but let me say, the one thing that touched home with this old military vet and retired cop is the idea of a 80 million gun owners marching on Washington, District of Criminals.   What a wonderful, monumental, statement, this would make! I don't know if your letter is a spoof or for real, because of how it's written, but me and many patriotic police and soldiers would be part of such a march IF it was on Wash. DC or the United Nations.   Do you realize the impact on the psyche of our treasonist "leaders" - if we had only "10 million" armed, peaceful, Americans descend on DC or the UN (which runs the US today)?   I can't think of anything that would send a more powerful message, that would not easily be forgotten at voting time on unconstitutional purposed gun legislation, by treasonist republican and democratic despots - that plan to "incrementally" i.e. "piece by piece", pull (remove) our unalienable Right to Bear Arms (Liberty Teeth) ! Brother, if 10 to 80 million concerned, patriotic non-violent, gun owners invading their "safe and secure" Ivory Palaces (firm but peacefully assembled) in the Nation's Capital, or the World Capital NYC- (UN) doesn't shake them up - nothing but another violent revolution will !! ...(that no intelligent American wants to see.) I don't know who's idea this was, but it may be a very timely idea. ("80 MILLION ARMED MAN MARCH on District of Criminals".) Those of us here at Police Against the New World Order and Aid & Abet Police-Military News know something must be done very soon.   I believe our peers would vote to march and stand with you and all our fellow Americans to stop the lose of our freedoms and liberty and see a return to our Constitutional REPUBLIC. With 50 plus new gun bills presently being presented to the congress for passage by traitors in both US socialist political parties ....many agree - It's past time the good, upstanding, patriotic, gun owners in our Land of Liberty be heard and heard at the very gates of Heaven and Hell ! "HAVE GUN - WILL TRAVEL" was the name of an old 50s T.V. show - sounds like a good, descriptive sound bit! It may be past-time to let our so-called representatives hear the sounds of 10 to 80 million peace-loving, but tenacious, good Americans moving their direction in... "peace and love", of course. We in law enforcement know of the successful program called "SCARED STRAIGHT" for getting our nation's juveniles delinquents attention and out of their life of crime.... could we possibly have come upon such a powerful program (80 million Armed Man March on DC) to get the attention of our despotic "leaders" involved in crimes against the Constitution and peoples rights? There are several of our congressional representatives that would join us. Ron Paul, Helen Chenoweth, Senators Larry Craig,....and who knows who may join us if they think they can get 10 to 80 million voters to support their political careers. I can't speak for them, but, I believe grand patriots Larry Pratt of GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA, and Arron Zelman and his fine activist team at JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership) might see the timeliness and value of such a profound, national statement and of course, would be a main force in making this march a successful and peaceful, reality.   In addition I can't imagine that every state gun association/club wouldn't support such a history making march.   Note: I could be wrong, however, because of what seems to be dark "dialectic" forces behind the scenes in the C-NRA (Compromising NRA) today - we may find them not supporting this march (especially if they believe it will be effective.)   We would have to be prepared for this real possibility. The question I pose to you is....do we need to have C-NRA to "secure" our GOD given rights for all freedom loving, armed, Americans,...OR...can American patriots stand up and speak out on their own???? Let me hear your thoughts on this my dear brother. And please, all those on my "very special" e-mail mailing list that receive this letter, BRAIN STORM WITH ME, and give me, and all of us, your valuable impute on such a mind boggling, eye opening, march IDEA.                                               Officer Jack McLamb, ret. Executive Director, PATNWO (Police Against the New World Order) and Publisher - AID & ABET POLICE-MILITARY NEWS.                                                       (208) 935-7852 FAX ((208) 935-7854 Stat: 1 Num: 0 UID: 32663 - -- Charles Hamilton schuetzen@spamcop.net Houston, TX RKBA! X-NO-ARCHIVE: YES [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Apr 00 18:44:43 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: McGehee's News & Comment - April 24, 2000 (fwd) On Apr 24, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT (c) 2000 KEVIN McGEHEE Newnan, Georgia mail@mcgeheezone.com http://www.mcgeheezone.com/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ REMEMBER WHEN...? Can you remember what it was like to be proud of your country? I can, but lately it feels more like the memory of a dream than of an actual experience. Never before in the history of this great nation has it ever expected less of itself than it does right now. What else can I conclude after listening to people defend what happened Saturday morning, not as a necessary evil, but as the right thing to do -- little less than our finest hour? Once upon a time when people tried to defend the indefensible, they at least pretended to have some shred of personal decency that was allegedly uneasy about what happened. But too many now seem to think that pointing an automatic weapon at a six-year-old kid is the sort of thing that earns a nation the moral high ground. Our government has been telling us for years now that it takes a village to raise a child. What happened in Miami last weekend reminded me more of a much older declaration: "We had to destroy the village to save it." Or in this case, "We had to traumatize a six-year-old boy to save him from being traumatized." America, are you proud of what you've allowed yourself to sink to? Away from the roar of the Elian issue, we behold a populace that has become cynical about national leaders. When told of new heights of low behavior from the current occupant of the White House, they shrug and excuse him, insisting that all politicians are scum anyway so it doesn't matter which one is in office. Twenty years ago it was a different matter entirely. There was somebody who unashamedly proclaimed his pride in America. Enough people appreciated it that we made him President, and in turn he made us all proud, just like him. Today we have a President that would make us all ashamed, if only we knew the meaning of the word. Unfortunately, "ashamed" seems to have fallen into the same cognitive abyss as "is." Ethics in government are only a reflection of the ethics of the people. If we have corrupt leaders, it's because the people have been corrupted. Getting their share from the system is now more important than their freedom -- but to so many Americans today freedom isn't even an issue. Like "is" and "ashamed," the word "freedom" has no meaning to them anymore. Those who try to argue the relative merits of freedom vs. big government control, might as well be arguing with a brick wall. America, do you even know what pride is? The "good times" of the last seven years have apparently lulled the American people into a stupor. They're fat, happy and totally disengaged from their government, even while that government gradually increases its control over them. It reminds me of how certain types of wasp will sting a large bug, giving it just enough venom to sedate it, before laying an egg on the bug and leaving. When the egg hatches, it takes the wasp larva weeks to devour the bug alive. America, if you can hear me, please twitch or something. - -30- April 24, 2000 ============================================================ This article can also be read online at http://www.mcgeheezone.com/news&comment/2000/****.htm The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. - --... ...-- -.. . -.- .-.. ----- - -.-- [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 00 14:32:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Justice Taken Too Far (fwd) On Apr 25, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I heard on Rush Limbaugh's show today that Alan Dershowitz was also expressing doubts about the legal basis of last Saturday's raid. When Tribe and Dershowitz are on the same side as George Will and Rush Limbaugh, that makes this truly a bipartisan issue. Kevin McGehee Newnan, Georgia mail@mcgeheezone.com http://www.McGeheeZone.com/ - --... ...-- -.. . -.- .-.. ----- - -.-- "Speak softly to your enemy, lest your vain remonstrances drown out the small, still voice of his own conscience, which speaks in vain only when it is unheard." - ----- Original Message ----- From: David L. Williams To: Dave Williams Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2000 12:32 PM Subject: Justice Taken Too Far Justice Taken Too Far Constitution Opinion (Published) Source: NY Times Published: April 25, 2000 Author: LAURENCE H. TRIBE Some are wildly comparing the armed seizure of Elian Gonzalez to the roundup of innocents by the Gestapo. Others think Attorney General Janet Reno showed admirable patience in dealing with a group of zealots using the boy as a pawn in its war with Fidel Castro. But the partisan squabbling over these caricatured views threatens to obscure a vital question: Where did the attorney general derive the legal authority to invade that Miami home in order to seize the child? The fact is, even on the assumption (which I share) that under applicable legal and moral principles Elian should ultimately be reunited with his father, the government's actions appear to have violated a basic principle of our society, a principle whose preservation lies at the core of ordered liberty under the rule of law. Under the Constitution, it is axiomatic that the executive branch has no unilateral authority to enter people's homes forcibly to remove innocent individuals without taking the time to seek a warrant or other order from a judge or magistrate (absent the most extraordinary need to act). Not only the Fourth Amendment but also well-established constitutional principles of family privacy require that the disinterested judiciary test the correctness of the executive branch's claimed right to enter and seize. Although a federal court had ordered that Elian not be removed from the country pending a determination of his asylum petition, and although a court had ruled that the Immigration and Naturalization Service could exercise custody and control of Elian for the time being, no judge or neutral magistrate had issued the type of warrant or other authority needed for the executive branch to break into the home to seize the child. The agency had no more right to do so than any parent who has been awarded custody would have a right to break and enter for such a purpose. Indeed, the I.N.S. had not even secured a judicial order, as opposed to a judicially unreviewed administrative one, compelling the Miami relatives to turn Elian over. The Justice Department points out that the agents who stormed the Miami home were armed not only with guns but with a search warrant. But it was not a warrant to seize the child. Elian was not lost, and it is a semantic sleight of hand to compare his forcible removal to the seizure of evidence, which is what a search warrant is for. To be sure, our courts have allowed immigration officials to obtain areawide warrants to search workplaces for illegal aliens, and Congress has by statute empowered immigration officials to search, interrogate and arrest people without warrants in order to prevent unlawful entry into the country. But no one suspects that Elian is here illegally. In fact, it's hard to see any significant immigration-related or other federal interest in whether Elian was reunited with his father now or after asylum is denied (if that is the outcome). And, should asylum be granted, Elian's father might still be granted custody and could then take the boy to Cuba with him if he so chose; asylum only means permission to stay in the United States and is not a requirement to stay. Either way, Ms. Reno's decision to take the law as well as the child into her own hands seems worse than a political blunder. Even if well intended, her decision strikes at the heart of constitutional government and shakes the safeguards of liberty. Laurence H. Tribe is a professor of constitutional law at Harvard [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Apr 00 14:33:05 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: GUN RIGHTS GROUPS CONDEMN NRA "PROJECT EXILE" (fwd) On Apr 24, Weldon Clark wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] GUN RIGHTS GROUPS CONDEMN NRA "PROJECT EXILE" PRESS RELEASE: NRA's Project Exile Condemned as Betrayal by Gun Rights Groups "Project Exile", a flagship program of the National Rifle Association, has provoked a hammering denunciation from a large and growing coalition that includes national, state, and grass-roots firearms rights organizations, as well as individuals prominent in the firearms rights and civil rights community. In a statement that became public last Saturday (April 15) via the internet news source WorldNet Daily.com, the coalition condemned "Project Exile", which is a general demand for strict enforcement of all existing federal gun laws. The coalition states that this clearly implies the NRA leadership's endorsement of unconstitutional laws and warn that these laws will ultimately be enforced against NRA's own members. Calling "Project Exile" "a grotesque betrayal of the eighty- three million American firearm owners who conduct peaceable lives every day", they note that the program is also supported by Bill Clinton and Handgun Control, Inc. They call on the NRA's current leadership to repudiate the program. The coalition arrayed against "Project Exile" includes Citizens Of America, Gun Owners of America, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, KeepAndBearArms.com, Citizens Against Corruption, and numerous large state-level groups. In a statement linked to his name on the website, coalition co-organizer and COA President Brian Puckett calls for ousting NRA officials, also stating "One should not confuse the NRA and its members with the current leadership, the so- called 'winning team', which has presided over the most profound and far-reaching losses of our Second Amendment Rights since the 1968 Gun Control Act." Another co-organizer, former NRA Director Russ Howard, stated today, "Project Exile makes it painfully clear that loyalty to the Constitution is now dangerously inconsistent with blind loyalty to NRA management." Coalition co-organizer Angel Shamaya, director of KeepAndBearArms.org and KeepAndBearArms.com, also stated today, "We're getting new endorsements every day, including signatures from the public. Project Exile is a total capitulation in our fight to regain stolen rights. We want everyone to understand why and to join us in denouncing this betrayal". The entire strongly-worded statement "We Condemn Project Exile" can be viewed online at http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_denouncement.htm. Also linked to the site are excerpted statements by NRA Executive Vice President Wayne La Pierre and NRA President Charlton Heston. - -End Press Release- 2ANEWS ACTION ITEMS: The Federal Exile Bill has passed the House and will go to the Senate. If it passes there it may go back to conference. *****WRITE AND CALL YOUR LEGISLATORS and tell them you want to stop Project Exile. Writing can be accomplished at the speed of light (see below). Some points to make: * Once again, NRA management has misinformed congress that the 2nd Amendment community supports gun control, this time claiming unanimous support for Project Exile. In fact, a large, growing coalition of self-defense civil rights leaders and groups oppose it. (see http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_denouncement.htm.) * Project Exile aims to provide resources to enforce unconstitutional gun control laws with "zero tolerance". Clearly, short of repealing or overturning these unconstitutional laws, there is no way to stop prosecutors from prosecuting ANYONE & EVERYONE who "violates" them, not just violent felons & victimless drug offenders especially as additional enforcement resources are provided. When the government gets ready to broaden its crackdowns on decent citizens, the laws and resources are in place. Why are we concentrating on enforcing gun laws to stop murder and other violent crimes? Aren't those already illegal? If the laws against violent crime aren't working, if true violent felons are walking the streets, shouldn't we be fixing and enforcing those laws, rather than pushing unconstitutional gun controls? Why should the penalty for someone who injures, rapes, or murders someone with a knife be any less than the same crime with a gun? Project Exile endorses the notion that guns are inherently evil. Waco and Ruby Ridge are examples of zero tolerance. Not a single officer in the chain of command refused to brutally enforce unconstitutional gun controls, resulting in the murders of over 80 men, women and children, none of whom were hurting anyone, none of whom were "violent criminals". WRITE: GOA & WND have very good "automailer" systems at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm or http://congress.nw.dc.us/wnd/ Under "Write to Congress", enter your zip code, check "send message", then click "search". A new screen comes up with the names of your representative & senators. Click "compose e-mail". When the new screen comes up, check "Compose Your Own Letter" then click "Next Step". Fill out the next screen, paste you message and click "Send e-mail". You can also have it compose regular letters for you to print and mail out. CALL: Call your Senators at (202) 224-3121 & your Representative at (202) 225-3121 (Capitol Switchboard). Sign the Anti-Project Exile statement yourself at: http://www.petitiononline.com/exile/petitition.html Leaders and Groups please sign at the bottom of the page at http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_denouncement.htm. We're swamped, so please bear with us. If you've already done this and your name or group hasn't appeared within a few days, please do it again. RELATED LINKS for 2ANews Clients: David Bresnahan's original article on the Anti-Project Exile coalition: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_bresnahan/20000415_ xex_gunrights_gr.shtml Brian Puckett's statement about current NRA leadership: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_puckett.htm Russ Howard's articles on Exile and the 2A movement: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/exile_gulag.htm http://www.keepandbeararms.org/gulag_epilogue.htm Geoff Metcalf's related article: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_metcalf/20000417_xcg me_i_am_not_n.shtml Val Finnell, M.D.'s statements: http://fi9.com/guncontrol/gc_projectexile.html http://www.vcdl.org/newsletter/1999/apr01/page2.htm ***************************** From The 2ndAmendmentNews Team If you received this as a forward and wish to join please send: E-MAil to listserver@frostbit.com with the following text in the message body: SUBSCRIBE 2nd-Amendment-News We have had a computer error. If you want to be removed send a message to the list administrator, send E-mail to whclark@bellsouth.net If you know anyone who would appreciate these alerts, please let us know and we'll enroll them on a trial basis. Also, feel free to forward our alerts. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #329 *************************