From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #331 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, April 29 2000 Volume 02 : Number 331 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 00 13:56:13 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Second Amendment (fwd) On Apr 29, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Another great letter from Congressman Ron Paul./////////// >From: "Paul, Rep." >Subject: Second Amendment >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:48:31 -0400 >X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) > >Thank you for contacting my office to express your support of the >Second Amendment. I appreciate hearing form you and I share your >strong opposition to any legislation that would infringe on the >individual right to keep and bear arms. > >There is a great need to repeal the unconstitutional laws, passed >over the last sixty-two years, which undermine our rights to defend >one's life and property. Congress has made it increasingly >expensive, difficult, and - in some cases - impossible for law- >abiding gun owners to exercise their rights. > >As well as cosponsoring various pro-gun bills, I have introduced >two bills that are steps in the right direction to regain what we >have lost through past unconstitutional laws and executive orders. > >The first one is H.R. 1179, "The Second Amendment Act of 1999." >This bill is threefold as it will repeal the Brady "instant" >registration check (thus no national registry, no taxes, etc.), >repeal the semi-auto ban and amend the Gun Control Act of 1968 by >deleting the "sporting purposes" test, which allows the Secretary >of Treasury to regulate away "non sporting" firearms. The >government will no longer be able to classify a firearm (handgun, >rifle, shotgun) as a "destructive device" simply because the >Secretary believes the gun to be "non sporting." > >The second, H.R. 407, is a national reciprocity bill for the right >of concealed carry. This allows citizens to carry from state to >state without the need to apply for another permit (thus no >fingerprints, taxes, fees, etc.) and therefore would be allowed to >travel and enjoy the same right of self-defense. It also grants >reciprocity to citizens who come from genuine right to carry >states, such as Vermont which requires no permit to carry. > >Anti-gun proponents should remember, criminals have a safer working >environment when the courts deny their duties in executing >penalties meanwhile, the federal government disarms the law >abiding. > >Please be assured that you can count on me to continue fighting for >the protection of the Second Amendment. Again, thank you for >taking the time to contact my office with your concerns. > >Sincerely, >Ron Paul [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 00 13:57:01 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The administration acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, threatening them with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis whereby guilt drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a peaceful democratic nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required to do great things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the doors of private homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. Americans are collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our president -- but by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in machine gun-toting federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in order to send him back to Cuba." Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been completely ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases are properly handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After hearing the case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami home of Elian Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what happens when good men do nothing." Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was selected as the neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his grandmothers: "What, if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to reclaim his son?" National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims to be free from Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son months ago. Once he finally arrived, he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public opinion, but they have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many Americans is a delight for government overlords." Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the rule of law and an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, of course, is Fidel Castro, who has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves just like his." Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone before us who fought for freedom in countless wars." Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own life, but it is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In Washington...you make a judgement and then you try to get the information." Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost worth it if only to watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to trade Castro the Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. We could go even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West Coast liberals for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg Roll? Hundreds of children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see the government is doing something for children other than psychologically scarring them for life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't come back to Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the Washington, D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When he gets back to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For example, he will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. He'll have to make that up somehow." Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, we have made what is strong just." John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 19:09:58 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Garbage!!! When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with his father. You are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents into Waco because of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his father and returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village to raise a child!" The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto kidnapping situation was legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Bill Vance wrote: > On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The administration > acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." > > Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even > liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by > everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the > destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient > testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, threatening them > with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." > > Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis whereby guilt > drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts > innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent > criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a peaceful democratic > nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway > child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." > > William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required to do great > things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the doors of private > homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. Americans are > collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our president -- but > by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." > > Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative > opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent > Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in machine gun-toting > federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in order to send > him back to Cuba." > > Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been completely > ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the > Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases are properly > handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After hearing the > case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." > > Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami home of Elian > Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the > worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being > reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." > > Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always > happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what happens when good > men do nothing." > > Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was selected as the > neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his grandmothers: "What, > if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to reclaim > his son?" > > National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims to be free from > Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son months ago. Once he > finally arrived, > he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... > Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public opinion, but they > have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." > > Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." > > Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many Americans is a delight > for > government overlords." > > Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the rule of law and > an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, of course, is > Fidel Castro, who > has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves just like his." > > Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida > relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last > Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." > > Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone before us who > fought for freedom in countless wars." > > Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own life, but it > is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the > constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." > > Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for > gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no > federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." > > White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been > critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In Washington...you make a > judgement and then you try to get the information." > > Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost worth it if only > to > watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed > pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." > > Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to trade Castro the > Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. We could go > even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West Coast liberals > for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." > > Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg Roll? Hundreds of > children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see the government > is doing something for children other than psychologically scarring them for > life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't come back to > Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." > > David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the Washington, > D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When he gets back > to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For example, he > will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. He'll have to > make that up somehow." > > Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without > justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, we have made > what is strong just." > > John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the > governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:36:50 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) The problem of child custody is a state problem, not a federal problem. In any case, I think we should be very careful in advocating the use of any of the 70+/86,000 federal police to use no-knock warrants for any reason whatsoever. The mere existence of these forces is unConstitutional, IMHO. No-knock warrants are both stupid and unConstitutional, and I don't care what the Supremes say about it. All of these stupidities are desensitizing both the public and the fedgoons to this sort of 'solutions'. One step at a time, we have ended in a police state, where gov power has few limits. It continues from here. BTW: The parents were never married, and the Father showed no interest in the kid until Castro got involved. Freedom is the only measure we should accept wrt gov actions. In this case, our gov is sending a kid back to un-freedom, hunger and a real high child mortality rate. Based upon his mother's actions, this is the kind of person we should be keeping. Keep the father here if it is so important to unit father and son. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:10 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > Garbage!!! > > When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with > his father. You > are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents > into Waco because > of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his > father and > returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village > to raise a child!" > > The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto > kidnapping situation was > legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > Bill Vance wrote: > > > On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: > > > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > > > Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The > administration > > acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." > > > > Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even > > liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by > > everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the > > destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient > > testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, > threatening them > > with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." > > > > Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis > whereby guilt > > drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts > > innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent > > criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a > peaceful democratic > > nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway > > child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." > > > > William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required > to do great > > things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the > doors of private > > homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. > Americans are > > collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our > president -- but > > by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." > > > > Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative > > opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent > > Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in > machine gun-toting > > federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in > order to send > > him back to Cuba." > > > > Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been > completely > > ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the > > Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases > are properly > > handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After > hearing the > > case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." > > > > Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami > home of Elian > > Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the > > worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being > > reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." > > > > Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always > > happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what > happens when good > > men do nothing." > > > > Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was > selected as the > > neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his > grandmothers: "What, > > if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute > trip to reclaim > > his son?" > > > > National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims > to be free from > > Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son > months ago. Once he > > finally arrived, > > he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... > > Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public > opinion, but they > > have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." > > > > Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." > > > > Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many > Americans is a delight > > for > > government overlords." > > > > Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the > rule of law and > > an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, > of course, is > > Fidel Castro, who > > has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves > just like his." > > > > Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida > > relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the > case last > > Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." > > > > Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone > before us who > > fought for freedom in countless wars." > > > > Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own > life, but it > > is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the > > constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." > > > > Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for > > gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no > > federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." > > > > White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been > > critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In > Washington...you make a > > judgement and then you try to get the information." > > > > Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost > worth it if only > > to > > watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed > > pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." > > > > Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to > trade Castro the > > Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. > We could go > > even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West > Coast liberals > > for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." > > > > Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg > Roll? Hundreds of > > children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see > the government > > is doing something for children other than psychologically > scarring them for > > life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't > come back to > > Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." > > > > David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the > Washington, > > D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When > he gets back > > to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For > example, he > > will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. > He'll have to > > make that up somehow." > > > > Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without > > justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, > we have made > > what is strong just." > > > > John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the > > governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." > > > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > ------------------------] > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! > ***** RKBA! > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he > who hath no > > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment > and buy a > > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > > > - > > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:49:19 -0700 From: "." Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. Elian should have been returned to his father within three days of arrival, but instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad handling the case eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. - -----Original Message----- From: larry ball To: roc@lists.xmission.com Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) >Garbage!!! > >When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with his father. You >are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents into Waco because >of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his father and >returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village to raise a child!" > >The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto kidnapping situation was >legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. > >Larry Ball >lball@inetnebr.com > >Bill Vance wrote: > >> On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >> >> Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The administration >> acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." >> >> Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even >> liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by >> everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the >> destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient >> testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, threatening them >> with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." >> >> Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis whereby guilt >> drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts >> innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent >> criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a peaceful democratic >> nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway >> child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." >> >> William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required to do great >> things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the doors of private >> homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. Americans are >> collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our president -- but >> by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." >> >> Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative >> opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent >> Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in machine gun-toting >> federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in order to send >> him back to Cuba." >> >> Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been completely >> ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the >> Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases are properly >> handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After hearing the >> case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." >> >> Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami home of Elian >> Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the >> worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being >> reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." >> >> Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always >> happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what happens when good >> men do nothing." >> >> Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was selected as the >> neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his grandmothers: "What, >> if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to reclaim >> his son?" >> >> National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims to be free from >> Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son months ago. Once he >> finally arrived, >> he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... >> Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public opinion, but they >> have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." >> >> Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." >> >> Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many Americans is a delight >> for >> government overlords." >> >> Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the rule of law and >> an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, of course, is >> Fidel Castro, who >> has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves just like his." >> >> Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida >> relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last >> Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." >> >> Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone before us who >> fought for freedom in countless wars." >> >> Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own life, but it >> is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the >> constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." >> >> Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for >> gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no >> federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." >> >> White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been >> critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In Washington...you make a >> judgement and then you try to get the information." >> >> Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost worth it if only >> to >> watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed >> pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." >> >> Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to trade Castro the >> Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. We could go >> even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West Coast liberals >> for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." >> >> Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg Roll? Hundreds of >> children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see the government >> is doing something for children other than psychologically scarring them for >> life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't come back to >> Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." >> >> David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the Washington, >> D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When he gets back >> to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For example, he >> will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. He'll have to >> make that up somehow." >> >> Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without >> justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, we have made >> what is strong just." >> >> John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the >> governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ - --- >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no >> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his >> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a >> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ - --- >> >> - > > >- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:51:15 -0700 From: "." Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) There never was a child's legal custody situation involved. Everyone knew who and where the father was. The boy was in the country illegally and should have been returned to his father under that auspecies from the beginning. - -----Original Message----- From: Lew Glendenning To: roc@lists.xmission.com Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:27 PM Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > >The problem of child custody is a state problem, not a federal problem. > >In any case, I think we should be very careful in advocating the use of >any of the 70+/86,000 federal police to use no-knock warrants for any reason >whatsoever. > >The mere existence of these forces is unConstitutional, IMHO. No-knock >warrants >are both stupid and unConstitutional, and I don't care what the Supremes say >about >it. > >All of these stupidities are desensitizing both the public and the fedgoons >to >this sort of 'solutions'. One step at a time, we have ended in a police >state, >where gov power has few limits. It continues from here. > >BTW: The parents were never married, and the Father showed no interest >in the kid until Castro got involved. > >Freedom is the only measure we should accept wrt gov actions. In this case, >our gov is sending a kid back to un-freedom, hunger and a real high child >mortality rate. Based upon his mother's actions, this is the kind of person >we should be >keeping. Keep the father here if it is so important to unit father and son. > >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball >> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:10 PM >> To: roc@lists.xmission.com >> Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) >> >> >> Garbage!!! >> >> When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with >> his father. You >> are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents >> into Waco because >> of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his >> father and >> returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village >> to raise a child!" >> >> The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto >> kidnapping situation was >> legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. >> >> Larry Ball >> lball@inetnebr.com >> >> Bill Vance wrote: >> >> > On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows >> --------------------] >> > >> > Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The >> administration >> > acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." >> > >> > Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even >> > liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by >> > everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the >> > destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient >> > testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, >> threatening them >> > with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." >> > >> > Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis >> whereby guilt >> > drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts >> > innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent >> > criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a >> peaceful democratic >> > nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway >> > child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." >> > >> > William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required >> to do great >> > things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the >> doors of private >> > homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. >> Americans are >> > collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our >> president -- but >> > by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." >> > >> > Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative >> > opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent >> > Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in >> machine gun-toting >> > federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in >> order to send >> > him back to Cuba." >> > >> > Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been >> completely >> > ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the >> > Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases >> are properly >> > handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After >> hearing the >> > case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." >> > >> > Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami >> home of Elian >> > Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the >> > worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being >> > reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." >> > >> > Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always >> > happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what >> happens when good >> > men do nothing." >> > >> > Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was >> selected as the >> > neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his >> grandmothers: "What, >> > if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute >> trip to reclaim >> > his son?" >> > >> > National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims >> to be free from >> > Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son >> months ago. Once he >> > finally arrived, >> > he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... >> > Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public >> opinion, but they >> > have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." >> > >> > Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." >> > >> > Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many >> Americans is a delight >> > for >> > government overlords." >> > >> > Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the >> rule of law and >> > an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, >> of course, is >> > Fidel Castro, who >> > has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves >> just like his." >> > >> > Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida >> > relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the >> case last >> > Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." >> > >> > Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone >> before us who >> > fought for freedom in countless wars." >> > >> > Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own >> life, but it >> > is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the >> > constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." >> > >> > Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for >> > gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no >> > federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." >> > >> > White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been >> > critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In >> Washington...you make a >> > judgement and then you try to get the information." >> > >> > Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost >> worth it if only >> > to >> > watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed >> > pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." >> > >> > Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to >> trade Castro the >> > Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. >> We could go >> > even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West >> Coast liberals >> > for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." >> > >> > Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg >> Roll? Hundreds of >> > children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see >> the government >> > is doing something for children other than psychologically >> scarring them for >> > life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't >> come back to >> > Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." >> > >> > David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the >> Washington, >> > D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When >> he gets back >> > to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For >> example, he >> > will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. >> He'll have to >> > make that up somehow." >> > >> > Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without >> > justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, >> we have made >> > what is strong just." >> > >> > John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the >> > governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." >> > >> > [------------------------- end of forwarded message >> ------------------------] >> > >> > -- >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ---------- >> > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! >> ***** RKBA! >> > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- >> ---------- >> > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he >> who hath no >> > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his >> > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment >> and buy a >> > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | >> sword.--Jesus Christ >> > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- >> ---------- >> > >> > - >> >> >> - >> > > >- > - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #331 *************************