From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #332 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, April 29 2000 Volume 02 : Number 332 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:12:40 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) The kid had applied for asylum. He was therefore not in the country illegally. A federal court said so, in a scathing judgement favoring the US family/Elian and overruling the Justice Dept. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of . > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:51 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > There never was a child's legal custody situation involved. Everyone knew > who and where the father was. The boy was in the country illegally and > should have been returned to his father under that auspecies from the > beginning. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lew Glendenning > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:27 PM > Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > >The problem of child custody is a state problem, not a federal problem. > > > >In any case, I think we should be very careful in advocating the use of > >any of the 70+/86,000 federal police to use no-knock warrants for any > reason > >whatsoever. > > > >The mere existence of these forces is unConstitutional, IMHO. No-knock > >warrants > >are both stupid and unConstitutional, and I don't care what the Supremes > say > >about > >it. > > > >All of these stupidities are desensitizing both the public and > the fedgoons > >to > >this sort of 'solutions'. One step at a time, we have ended in a police > >state, > >where gov power has few limits. It continues from here. > > > >BTW: The parents were never married, and the Father showed no interest > >in the kid until Castro got involved. > > > >Freedom is the only measure we should accept wrt gov actions. In this > case, > >our gov is sending a kid back to un-freedom, hunger and a real high child > >mortality rate. Based upon his mother's actions, this is the kind of > person > >we should be > >keeping. Keep the father here if it is so important to unit father and > son. > > > >Lew - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:02:49 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Not in this case is it a state problem. We are dealing with an alien and this is an INS affair. Waco was a state affair that was invaded by illegal feds. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr. Lew Glendenning wrote: > The problem of child custody is a state problem, not a federal problem. > > In any case, I think we should be very careful in advocating the use of > any of the 70+/86,000 federal police to use no-knock warrants for any reason > whatsoever. > > The mere existence of these forces is unConstitutional, IMHO. No-knock > warrants > are both stupid and unConstitutional, and I don't care what the Supremes say > about > it. > > All of these stupidities are desensitizing both the public and the fedgoons > to > this sort of 'solutions'. One step at a time, we have ended in a police > state, > where gov power has few limits. It continues from here. > > BTW: The parents were never married, and the Father showed no interest > in the kid until Castro got involved. > > Freedom is the only measure we should accept wrt gov actions. In this case, > our gov is sending a kid back to un-freedom, hunger and a real high child > mortality rate. Based upon his mother's actions, this is the kind of person > we should be > keeping. Keep the father here if it is so important to unit father and son. > > Lew > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:10 PM > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > Garbage!!! > > > > When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with > > his father. You > > are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents > > into Waco because > > of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his > > father and > > returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village > > to raise a child!" > > > > The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto > > kidnapping situation was > > legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. > > > > Larry Ball > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > Bill Vance wrote: > > > > > On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > > --------------------] > > > > > > Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The > > administration > > > acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." > > > > > > Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even > > > liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by > > > everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the > > > destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient > > > testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, > > threatening them > > > with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." > > > > > > Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis > > whereby guilt > > > drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts > > > innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent > > > criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a > > peaceful democratic > > > nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway > > > child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." > > > > > > William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required > > to do great > > > things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the > > doors of private > > > homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. > > Americans are > > > collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our > > president -- but > > > by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." > > > > > > Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative > > > opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent > > > Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in > > machine gun-toting > > > federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in > > order to send > > > him back to Cuba." > > > > > > Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been > > completely > > > ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the > > > Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases > > are properly > > > handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After > > hearing the > > > case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." > > > > > > Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami > > home of Elian > > > Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the > > > worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being > > > reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." > > > > > > Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always > > > happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what > > happens when good > > > men do nothing." > > > > > > Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was > > selected as the > > > neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his > > grandmothers: "What, > > > if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute > > trip to reclaim > > > his son?" > > > > > > National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims > > to be free from > > > Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son > > months ago. Once he > > > finally arrived, > > > he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... > > > Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public > > opinion, but they > > > have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." > > > > > > Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." > > > > > > Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many > > Americans is a delight > > > for > > > government overlords." > > > > > > Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the > > rule of law and > > > an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, > > of course, is > > > Fidel Castro, who > > > has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves > > just like his." > > > > > > Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida > > > relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the > > case last > > > Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." > > > > > > Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone > > before us who > > > fought for freedom in countless wars." > > > > > > Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own > > life, but it > > > is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the > > > constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." > > > > > > Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for > > > gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no > > > federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." > > > > > > White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been > > > critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In > > Washington...you make a > > > judgement and then you try to get the information." > > > > > > Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost > > worth it if only > > > to > > > watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed > > > pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." > > > > > > Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to > > trade Castro the > > > Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. > > We could go > > > even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West > > Coast liberals > > > for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." > > > > > > Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg > > Roll? Hundreds of > > > children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see > > the government > > > is doing something for children other than psychologically > > scarring them for > > > life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't > > come back to > > > Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." > > > > > > David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the > > Washington, > > > D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When > > he gets back > > > to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For > > example, he > > > will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. > > He'll have to > > > make that up somehow." > > > > > > Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without > > > justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, > > we have made > > > what is strong just." > > > > > > John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the > > > governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." > > > > > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > > ------------------------] > > > > > > -- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! > > ***** RKBA! > > > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > > ---------- > > > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he > > who hath no > > > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > > > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment > > and buy a > > > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > > sword.--Jesus Christ > > > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > > ---------- > > > > > > - > > > > > > - > > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:13:49 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) There was never a marriage. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of . > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:49 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the > moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity > alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. Elian > should have been returned to his father within three days of arrival, but > instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad handling the case > eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. > > -----Original Message----- > From: larry ball > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:05:20 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) sabitago, I can agree with what you say mostly. But it wasn't just the Clintonista's baffoon squad at work here. In a great part it was those conservative republicans interferring on the side of the Miami relatives. Both sides on this one have bloody noses as far as I am concerned. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com "." wrote: > Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the > moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity > alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. Elian > should have been returned to his father within three days of arrival, but > instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad handling the case > eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. > > -----Original Message----- > From: larry ball > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > >Garbage!!! > > > >When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with his > father. You > >are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents into Waco > because > >of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his father > and > >returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village to raise a > child!" > > > >The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto kidnapping > situation was > >legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. > > > >Larry Ball > >lball@inetnebr.com > > > >Bill Vance wrote: > > > >> On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message > follows --------------------] > >> > >> Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The > administration > >> acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." > >> > >> Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even > >> liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by > >> everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the > >> destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient > >> testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, threatening > them > >> with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." > >> > >> Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis whereby guilt > >> drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts > >> innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent > >> criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a peaceful > democratic > >> nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway > >> child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." > >> > >> William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required to do great > >> things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the doors of > private > >> homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. Americans are > >> collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our president -- > but > >> by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." > >> > >> Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative > >> opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent > >> Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in machine > gun-toting > >> federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in order to > send > >> him back to Cuba." > >> > >> Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been completely > >> ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the > >> Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases are > properly > >> handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After hearing > the > >> case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." > >> > >> Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami home of > Elian > >> Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the > >> worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being > >> reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." > >> > >> Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always > >> happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what happens when > good > >> men do nothing." > >> > >> Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was selected as > the > >> neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his grandmothers: > "What, > >> if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to > reclaim > >> his son?" > >> > >> National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims to be free > from > >> Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son months ago. > Once he > >> finally arrived, > >> he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... > >> Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public opinion, but > they > >> have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." > >> > >> Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." > >> > >> Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many Americans is a > delight > >> for > >> government overlords." > >> > >> Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the rule of law > and > >> an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, of course, > is > >> Fidel Castro, who > >> has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves just like > his." > >> > >> Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida > >> relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last > >> Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." > >> > >> Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone before us who > >> fought for freedom in countless wars." > >> > >> Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own life, but > it > >> is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the > >> constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." > >> > >> Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for > >> gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no > >> federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." > >> > >> White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been > >> critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In Washington...you > make a > >> judgement and then you try to get the information." > >> > >> Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost worth it if > only > >> to > >> watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed > >> pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." > >> > >> Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to trade > Castro the > >> Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. We could go > >> even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West Coast > liberals > >> for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." > >> > >> Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg Roll? > Hundreds of > >> children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see the > government > >> is doing something for children other than psychologically scarring them > for > >> life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't come back > to > >> Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." > >> > >> David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the > Washington, > >> D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When he gets > back > >> to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For example, > he > >> will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. He'll have to > >> make that up somehow." > >> > >> Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without > >> justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, we have > made > >> what is strong just." > >> > >> John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the > >> governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." > >> > >> [------------------------- end of forwarded > message ------------------------] > >> > >> -- > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > --- > >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath > no > >> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > >> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > >> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > Christ > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > --- > >> > >> - > > > > > >- > > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:18:35 -0700 From: Jack Perrine Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) On Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:05 PM, larry ball [SMTP:lball@inetnebr.com] wrote: > sabitago, > > I can agree with what you say mostly. But it wasn't just the Clintonista's > baffoon squad at work here. In a great part it was those conservative > republicans interferring on the side of the Miami relatives. Both sides on this > one have bloody noses as far as I am concerned. Since I put a great deal more credibility in Vin that any of the posts on this subject this afternoon on ROC, I thought I should copy this delightful paragraphs from Vin's delightful treatise on the Miami Fiasco V But this was all about getting little Elian some "quiet time with his V father," wasn't it? Even though, according to The New York Times, Juan V Miguel Gonzalez divorced Elian's mom in May of 1991, and Elian was born on V Dec. 6, 1993. Do the math. This father -- if any DNA test would even V confirm he is the father -- has no automatic parental rights in any V American court. So it seems that there is no proof the Father is the Father and he certainly as Vin points out would zilch rights in any American Court Jack > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > "." wrote: > > > Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the > > moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity > > alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. Elian > > should have been returned to his father within three days of arrival, but > > instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad handling the case > > eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: larry ball > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > > > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > >Garbage!!! > > > > > >When you going to get it straight? Elian is belongs to and with his > > father. You > > >are acting just like Janet Reno did when she sent Federal Agents into Waco > > because > > >of child abuse. All of you who oppose Elian be reunited with his father > > and > > >returning to Cuba with him have bought into "it takes a village to raise a > > child!" > > > > > >The Federal raid to free, yes free, Elian from a de facto kidnapping > > situation was > > >legal and proper. They should have done it three months earlier. > > > > > >Larry Ball > > >lball@inetnebr.com > > > > > >Bill Vance wrote: > > > > > >> On Apr 29, shezza@aol.com wrote: > > >> > > >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message > > follows --------------------] > > >> > > >> Clinton supporter Alan Dershowitz, Harvard Law School: "The > > administration > > >> acted lawlessly...it's a dangerous day for all Americans." > > >> > > >> Joseph Sobran: "When the Soviet Empire crumbled, it appeared that even > > >> liberals finally realized that Reagan's view of Communism was shared by > > >> everyone who had lived under Communism. It shouldn't have taken the > > >> destruction of the Wall to prove that; the Wall itself was sufficient > > >> testimony. Communism is a system that has to lock people in, threatening > > them > > >> with death if they try to escape from its 'utopia'." > > >> > > >> Joe Schembrie: "Liberalism has always had a dark psychosis whereby guilt > > >> drives evil and evil drives guilt -- a morality of sadism which aborts > > >> innocent babies but spares murderers from execution, which frees violent > > >> criminals but disarms law-abiding citizens, which bombs a peaceful > > democratic > > >> nation on the other side of the world but dutifully returns runaway > > >> child-slaves to the terrorist despotism in our own backyard." > > >> > > >> William Murchison: "A great nation, to be great, is required to do great > > >> things, not small, grubby things such as breaking down the doors of > > private > > >> homes and snatching up six year olds at the point of a gun. Americans are > > >> collectively diminished by the Holy Saturday Raid. So is our president -- > > but > > >> by this time, that won't astound very many Americans." > > >> > > >> Tod Lindberg: "If you were looking for a way to galvanize conservative > > >> opinion in this country...you wouldn't even dare hope that the incumbent > > >> Democratic administration would be so stupid as to send in machine > > gun-toting > > >> federal agents to snatch a six-year-old shipwreck survivor in order to > > send > > >> him back to Cuba." > > >> > > >> Rep. Ron Paul: "The rule of law and the Constitution have been completely > > >> ignored and a police-state mentality dictated the actions by the > > >> Administration and carried out by Janet Reno. ... Custody cases are > > properly > > >> handled in a family court, with contesting sides present. After hearing > > the > > >> case a judge rules with the loser having the right to appeal." > > >> > > >> Roger Pilon: "The Justice Department's night raid on the Miami home of > > Elian > > >> Gonzalez was an unconscionable exercise of police power, made all the > > >> worse by its exercise at the very moment a settlement was being > > >> reached. ... This is a shameful episode in this nation's history." > > >> > > >> Gary Aldrich: "What happened Saturday is very symbolic of what always > > >> happens when ultimate power is corrupted. It's also what happens when > > good > > >> men do nothing." > > >> > > >> Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, the university president who was selected as > > the > > >> neutral party to host the meeting between Elian and his grandmothers: > > "What, > > >> if not for fear, could keep a person from making a 30-minute trip to > > reclaim > > >> his son?" > > >> > > >> National Review's Kate O'Beirne: "A loving father, who claims to be free > > from > > >> Castro's control, would have been in Florida with his son months ago. > > Once he > > >> finally arrived, > > >> he would have walked across broken glass to see his son for an hour... > > >> Elian's Miami relatives are losing in the court of public opinion, but > > they > > >> have passed Solomon's test with flying colors." > > >> > > >> Cal Thomas: "We have the photographic equivalent of the stained dress." > > >> > > >> Linda Bowles: "The docility and gullibility of so many Americans is a > > delight > > >> for > > >> government overlords." > > >> > > >> Jacob G. Hornberger: "The raid was ... a denigration of the rule of law > > and > > >> an elevation of the rule of terror.... The winner in all this, of course, > > is > > >> Fidel Castro, who > > >> has...displayed to the world that the U.S. government behaves just like > > his." > > >> > > >> Robert Novak: "Contrary to Justice Department claims that the Florida > > >> relatives defied the law, the highest federal court to hear the case last > > >> Wednesday roundly rejected Attorney General Janet Reno's arguments." > > >> > > >> Paul M. Weyrich: "How we have let down those patriots gone before us who > > >> fought for freedom in countless wars." > > >> > > >> Rep. Ron Paul: "It is one thing to be a coward with one's own life, but > > it > > >> is entirely immoral to run in fear when it comes to defending the > > >> constitutional rights we are sworn to uphold." > > >> > > >> Don Feder: "Clinton has finally convinced me of the case for > > >> gun control to this extent: While he and Reno are in charge, no > > >> federal agent should be allowed to carry firearms." > > >> > > >> White House spokesman Joe Lockhart, condemning Republicans who have been > > >> critical of the commando raid in Little Havana: "In Washington...you > > make a > > >> judgement and then you try to get the information." > > >> > > >> Rich Galen: "The raid on the two-bedroom house was almost worth it if > > only > > >> to > > >> watch Jesse Jackson, on Tony Snow's Sunday show, defending an armed > > >> pre-dawn raid by the U.S. government on a minority household." > > >> > > >> Paul Craig Roberts: "The solution to the Elian problem is to trade > > Castro the > > >> Democratic Party, Janet Reno and the liberal media for Elian. We could go > > >> even further and trade Castro all our Northeastern and West Coast > > liberals > > >> for the Cuban population. That way, everyone would be happy." > > >> > > >> Jay Leno: "Did you watch the Annual White House Easter Egg Roll? > > Hundreds of > > >> children rolling eggs along the lawn with spoons. Nice to see the > > government > > >> is doing something for children other than psychologically scarring them > > for > > >> life. Castro is getting mad now. He says that if Elian doesn't come back > > to > > >> Cuba soon, he will lose his job at the Nike factory." > > >> > > >> David Letterman: "Elian Gonzalez in now with his father in the > > Washington, > > >> D.C., area and I'm thinking what a year this kid has had. When he gets > > back > > >> to Cuba he's going to be behind. He will have missed a lot. For example, > > he > > >> will have missed an entire semester of Commie brainwashing. He'll have to > > >> make that up somehow." > > >> > > >> Blaise Pascal: "Justice without strength is helpless, strength without > > >> justice is tyrannical.... Unable to make what is just strong, we have > > made > > >> what is strong just." > > >> > > >> John Locke: "Tyranny is the exercise of power beyond right...when the > > >> governor...makes not the law, but his will, the rule." > > >> > > >> [------------------------- end of forwarded > > message ------------------------] > > >> > > >> -- > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > > RKBA! > > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > > --- > > >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath > > no > > >> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > > >> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > > >> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > > Christ > > >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------ > > --- > > >> > > >> - > > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > - > > > - Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:20:02 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) There is, however, a FATHER! A father with whom Elian belongs. And he belongs with the father where ever the father determines to live. Elian applied for asylum, my as--um! Elian is six years old. He has NO capabilty to make an informed decision about such things. How would you react if your wife, lover, mistress, one-night-stand, whatever, took your boy and tried to swim to Cuba? Would you be in favor of the Cuban courts making similar rulings and the Cuban politicians bahaving like ours have in this case? Would you be satisfied with such criminal behavior? or would you be ready to send in the marines to rescue your son? Tell me Mr. "Landers" what would you do? Should the whole nation of Cuba be allowed to second guess your ability to be a proper father? Hmmmmn? Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Lew Glendenning wrote: > There was never a marriage. > > Lew > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of . > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:49 PM > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the > > moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity > > alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. Elian > > should have been returned to his father within three days of arrival, but > > instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad handling the case > > eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: larry ball > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > > > > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 18:29:16 -0700 From: "Ken Mitchell" Subject: RE: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > There is, however, a FATHER! A father with whom Elian belongs. > And he belongs > with the father where ever the father determines to live. > > Elian applied for asylum, my as--um! Elian is six years old. He has NO > capabilty to make an informed decision about such things. How > would you react > if your wife, lover, mistress, one-night-stand, whatever, took > your boy and > tried to swim to Cuba? Would you be in favor of the Cuban courts making > similar rulings and the Cuban politicians bahaving like ours have in this > case? Would you be satisfied with such criminal behavior? or > would you be > ready to send in the marines to rescue your son? Tell me Mr. > "Landers" what > would you do? Should the whole nation of Cuba be allowed to > second guess your > ability to be a proper father? Hmmmmn? > > Larry Ball One essential consideration here is that the Federal government has NEVER BEFORE interfered in an international custody dispute. There are hundreds of incidents where foreign-born parents (usually men) have left the country with their kids, in violation of a custody order, and the U.S. has refused even to protest to the foreign government involved. Why is Slick Willie so eager to change positions here? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." Voltaire - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 21:18:17 -0400 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC" Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Lots of kids have Fathers to whom they should not be sent or returned. His mother had custody and she wanted him in the US. It should have gone to a family court to see if the father really did have the parental rights and is a fit father. Both sides may be in the wrong but the raid was wrong. It was police state in action. Those men in the raid had machine guns. I assume they had bullets. That means they were ready to kill. Was it worth the risk of someone's life to take Elian from people who were not abusing him -- he was in no danger -- so was it right, regardless of who should have custody, to use lethal force to retrieve him? Unless the kid was with people causing him harm and doing bad things to him, there was NO case for force being used that could have been lethal. And I am sure he will have some emotional scarring from this issue too. It comes down to this. Clinton and Reno have only one solution to problems - -- send in hack booted thugs and ninja wannabes. Reno was having a pouting fit. Chad - --On Saturday, April 29, 2000 8:20 PM -0500 larry ball wrote: > There is, however, a FATHER! A father with whom Elian belongs. And he > belongs with the father where ever the father determines to live. > > Elian applied for asylum, my as--um! Elian is six years old. He has NO > capabilty to make an informed decision about such things. How would you > react if your wife, lover, mistress, one-night-stand, whatever, took your > boy and tried to swim to Cuba? Would you be in favor of the Cuban > courts making similar rulings and the Cuban politicians bahaving like > ours have in this case? Would you be satisfied with such criminal > behavior? or would you be ready to send in the marines to rescue your > son? Tell me Mr. "Landers" what would you do? Should the whole nation > of Cuba be allowed to second guess your ability to be a proper father? > Hmmmmn? > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > Lew Glendenning wrote: > >> There was never a marriage. >> >> Lew >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of . >> > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:49 PM >> > To: roc@lists.xmission.com >> > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) >> > >> > >> > Elian acquired protection under U.S. law and the U.S. Constitution the >> > moment he entered our country -- but then, so did his father. Paternity >> > alone is enough for custody unless there is a divorce in progress. >> > Elian should have been returned to his father within three days of >> > arrival, but instead, the waffling of the Clinton Buffobn Squad >> > handling the case eventually made it necessary to do the Waco-Thang. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: larry ball >> > To: roc@lists.xmission.com >> > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> > >> > Date: Saturday, April 29, 2000 5:11 PM >> > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) >> > >> > >> >> - > > > - > Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #332 *************************