From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #343 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Sunday, May 21 2000 Volume 02 : Number 343 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 May 00 07:27:54 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Christian brief (fwd) On May 19, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >From South Africa Freedom News, this morning. J. CHRISTIAN BRIEF Abortions in Poland have declined to such an extent that this past year there were only 250 killings of fetuses. "The abortion rate went from 160,000 to 250," said Dr. Jack Willke, of the Life Issues Institute, who has spent time in Poland. For 44 years, Poland was dominated by a communist Regime, like the New SA, and abortion was not only legal, it was paid for by the government. When the Iron Curtain fell, the Polish parliament severely restricted abortion, and today according to Willke there are now fewer women dying of gynecologic problems, effectively proving 'pro-choice' lobbyists wrong. Lek Koleski, a Polish member of the board of directors of the International Right to Life Committee, said abortion restrictions have helped educate women. His conclusion after studying the Polish experience was that the law tends to influence opinions, and that the demand for abortion declines as soon as Soviet-style anti-life legislation is abolished. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 00 07:29:11 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: [slickmisc] TIMSS (fwd) On May 19, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: manifesto@netzero.net (Fathers Manifesto) Dear Rich, There are few parents in this country who would disagree with your observation that spending more of their tax dollars for education just isn't going to solve our education crisis. For those who are interested, the entire solution to this crisis was provided to us by foreign, not American, educators, through TIMSS. This study contains far more important information than just our low test scores, which by themselves are prerequisites to quantifying the damage done to our nation's boys and girls through feminism. The mindset created by feminism created a lockstep between denial and ignorance which we simply must break out of. It starts with feminism's Holy Grail that boys and girls are "equal" (ignorance) and ends with their insulting any challenge to this Holy Grail as misogeny (denial). It's difficult for those of us who have both boys and girls to understand how feminists or teachers or bureaucrats or courts could even start their day with such an outlandish assumption, until you realize how many of them have neither and couldn't care less about both. Rush Limbaugh's recent diatribe about how easily he would remove Elian Gonzalez from his father proved that only parents understand children, or care enough about them to ensure that their parents are their primary decision makers, rather than the childless bureaucrats of whom there are far too many involved in American "education". But this is only a partial explanation for why so many Americans accept this basic feminist premise. By denying these differences they are propagating a social pathology of immense proportions. American girls are clearly the biggest losers of this denial, so it's the exact opposite of "misogeny" to make the following observation: pretending that our girls aren't being adversely impacted by feminism ensures that they will forever rank last in the world in academic skills, which adversely impacts boys, which further undermines girls' future family income and stability. We cannot deny that there is a huge difference in public attitudes about education between the US and many other countries. One example is the low proportion of American teachers who are men, compared to more than three quarters of the teachers in Japan and Korea and Switzerland, the highest scoring countries in TIMSS. Only a quarter of the teachers in the US, and other low scoring countries like Austria, Greece, and the Czech Republic, are men. You can deny that this is a factor in our poor international standing, as many American educators and students and even parents commonly do, but you cannot deny that this is clear evidence of an important and significant difference in attitudes about education. This is the classic case of how quality is less expensive than going third class. Not only does Japan spend less than half as much as a percentage of GDP for education than us, not only did their 8th graders score more than 100 points higher than ours, but their predominately men teachers receive salaries which are two to three times higher than our predominately women teachers. In an obtuse sense our teachers are correct--American teachers should be paid more. But the money must be spent to attract more competent American men to teaching rather than to continue to prop up the deadwood educators who dishonored our youth. How can American girls who scored a statistical zero percent on TIMSS math and physics at the 12th grade level gain the knowledge or skills within the next 4 or 8 or 10 years necessary to teach American boys, many of whom understand math and physics better than most [if not all] of their own teachers? The reality is that they can't, they don't, and they never will. Furthermore, those who major in education, who are most of those who become teachers, score 55 SAT math points lower than the average college student and 161 SAT math points lower than the average math major. Thus most of our teachers are already coming from the left side of a very flat bell curve which is to the left of the male bell curve which is one of the lowest in the world. Does a college education or teachers' training or an advanced degree improve these critical skills? Not by much, and certainly not by enough to make any significant difference. The gap between these bell curves is even bigger after graduation than before--88 GRE (Graduate Record Exam) points. Conversely, Japan's teachers come from a labor pool whose 8th grade TIMSS scores were 105 points higher than ours and whose 12th grade scores would have been between 180 and 250 points higher had they participated in 12th grade TIMSS. They hire mostly men who, if the difference between Japanese men and women is equivalent to the difference between Swiss, Czech, Austrian, or Slovenian men and women, have academic skills which are the equivalent of more than 80 TIMSS points higher in both math and physics than their women. And they pay enough to attract teachers from the right side of the men's bell curve, which adds another 30-50 points to their teachers' average academic skills. Ignoring any overlap between these three factors, the majority of Japan's teachers have math and physics skills which are the equivalent of 290 to 380 TIMSS points higher than the majority of our teachers. We need no further studies or tests to grasp the significance of such a wide gap between Japanese and American teachers. We don't even need to test our teachers or Japanese teachers to get a ballpark estimate of their relative academic performance--we have it. John Knight John, FYI, I am the father of 6, 5 girls and a boy who graduated with NHS awards. Today a granddaughter recd the Presidential award and my daughter will graduate with a straight A's from a Dir college. When it comes to parenthood, I am no novice. The TIMSS article makes many points, most of the germane, IMHO, however, my focus is: the fall of the US educational system to last place in the industrialized world spells our doom. As I learned in ToughLove, if you continue doing what you're doing, you will keep getting what you're getting---in this case, last place. Rich Martin Editor of Slick [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 00 13:41:10 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Clinton cancels Army Reserve Marksmanship Program... (fwd) On May 19, bg wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Please post this far and wide. The army and marines, especially, have = been proud winners of many shooting medals and awarda at Camp Perry, in = the Olympics and across America. Now, the Clinton Administration has = canceled the Army Reserve marksmanship program. > Break out another set of black armbands. > > AA/labgrade > Tyranny Response Team > Subject: [besc] FW: The Latest Clinton Outrage: Army Marksmanship = Programs > Cancelled! > > > |> | Subject: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | > | To one and all: > | > | This is the latest move in the destruction of the 2nd Amendment by = the > | Clinton Commu-Nazis. > | Some of the names you will see below are real "heavy hitters" in = the > | shooting world. Note: MSG Steve Reiter is the current and past = National > | Pistol champion. MSG Fox is Ruby Fox, womens' National Pistol = champion > | for about a dozen or more years running, and one of the few 2600+ = womman > | shooters in the world. > | Despite the fact that there are more Olympic medals awarded for > | shooting than any other discipline - 13 in total - it looks like the = USA > | will loose by default this year. > | It should be further noted that these were the same people who = saved > | the US Army's bacon when the Infantry school fell on it's face for = lack > | of marksmanship training in Desert Storm! > | Some people never learn. > | > | Respectfully, > | > | MSG David J. Lindstedt, Sr. > | US ARMY (retired) > | former team captain & coach 79th ARCOM Pistol team > | > | PS: Please forward this to any and all interested parties. > | > | > | > | --------- Forwarded Message --------- > | > | From: "MCILHANEY,ROBERT L.", INTERNET:MCILHARL@apci.com > | To: "Dave Lindstedt (E-mail)", 73422,1726 > | Date: 5/16/00 5:21 AM > | RE: FW: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | > | Dave, > | > | Well they have done it to us. It is official now. All Army reserve > | marksmanship teams and activities are going to be stopped. If you = have > | friends in high places or know someone who does > | we could use the help with some face ripping letters. > | Bob > | > | > | -----Original Message----- > | From: Harry Russell > | Subject: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | I got this email from Helmut today. It was a bit of a shock, = although > | a lot of us had seen it coming; here it is in black and white. At = the > | end of Perry, we have to turn in our equipment. > | Many of you have connections in high places, whether it be the > | military or politicians. We need to call in on all of our favors to = try > | and keep the program going. I need someone to write a letter and = pass > | out to our teammates to sign and mail to our Representatives in > | Congress, Senate and anyone else who will listen, including USARC. = The > | letter should describe the benefits that the Army receives by having = us > | as a Team and also the long tradition that we have had. We have > | wordsmiths on the Team who are more eloquent than I am and know the > | history of the Team better. Please let me know ASAP if you would = like > | to volunteer to do this. If not, I'll take the bull by the horns = and > | try to write it myself. Other Service Teams may also have a = personal > | interest because if our program is cancelled, theirs also may be > | adversely affected. Let's go down with a fight and try and save our > | program!!! > | > | MAJ Russell > | > | > | Gentlemen, > | > | 1. It is my sad duty to inform you that the USAR is the first = military > | organization to cancel competitive marksmanship activities. = Hopefully > | the USAR will be the only one to do so. > | > | 2. Each of the teams (Pistol, Rifle, and Combat) will make = arrangements > | to turn-in their equipment at the completion of this year's > | competitions. The equipment (which includes firearms) will be = returned > | to the property book holder, the Small Arms Training Team (SATT). > | a. Pistol Team. All soldiers competing in the National Matches > | will turn their equipment in at Camp Perry, OH, after the pistol = phase > | of the National Matches. Any team members who do not participate in = the > | Nationals must make arrangements to turn their equipment into the = SATT > | no later than 31 July 2000. > | b. Rifle Team. All soldiers competing in the National Matches will > | turn their equipment in at Camp Perry, OH, after the rifle phase of = the > | National Matches. Any team members who do not participate in the > | Nationals must make arrangements to turn their equipment into the = SATT > | no later than 31 August 2000. > | c. Combat Team. All soldiers will turn their equipment into the SATT > | no later than 31 August 2000. > | > | 3. Ammunition will be issued in quantities that will be expended no > | later than the turn-in dates. The remaining ammunition will be > | consolidated for transfer to the Army Marksmanship Unit or the = National > | Guard Marksmanship Training Unit for use in their competitive > | marksmanship programs. MAJ Steven Spencer, as the All-USAR Shooting = Team > | Ammunition Officer, is responsible for the > | disposition of ammunition. > | > | 4. The Army Marksmanship Unit will not order any new ammunition. > | Expendable items necessary for the successful completion of this = year's > | activities may still be procured. > | > | 5. Additional information will be provided in future correspondence. > | > | 6. If we have to go out, let's go out with a big BANG (at = Interservice > | and the Nationals that is). > | > | > | Helmut J. Hein Lynn Belcher > | Assistant Branch Chief, > | Individual Training Branch > | U.S. Army Reserve Command > | (404) 464-8315; fax 8313; DSN 367 > | HeinHelm@usarc-emh2.army.mil [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 May 00 16:19:10 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: John Lott vs The APBnews.com (fwd) On May 19, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] APB News poll: John Lott complains the NY Times falsified data to promote gun control. Do you believe the NY Times would ever do such a thing? In a New York second. Let them hear from us! >You got to see this >http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/findingjustice/2000/05/18/lott0518_01.html > >check out the poll and vote ! - -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares | RKBA! Whoever prefers life to death, happiness to suffering, well-being to misery must defend without compromise private ownership in the means of production. -- LUDWIG VON MISES (1920) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 00 07:42:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: If a Knife is a Weapon...Chaos (fwd) Interesting article from rec.knives..... On May 19, gunner@cyberg8t.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In article <39366bf9.49185983@news.cyberg8t.com> you wrote: >On Mon, 15 May 2000 11:07:05 GMT, jason wrote: >>Gunner, >> >>This is really interesting. Do happen to have any numbers? >>I'm kind of curious as to actually how many deaths are >>attributable to guns in the UK and OZ. Per capita numbers >>would also be telling. >> >>(Pls, no sarcasm or malice involved. I'd really like some >>dialogue on this.) >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Jason >> >>- >May 12, 2000 >Gun Control: Myths and Realities >by David Lampo >David Lampo is the publications director at the Cato Institute. >The number of well-publicized public shootings during the past few years, >especially the tragedy at Columbine High School, has re-energized the gun >control movement. As a show of strength, a coalition of gun control groups has >organized a "Million Mom March" to be held in Washington, D.C. on Mother's >Day, >an event designed to stir up emotions rather than promote rational thought. >And >when one looks at the facts about gun control, it's easy to see why the >anti-gun lobby relies on emotion rather than logic to make its case. >Think you know the facts about gun control? If your only source of information >is the mainstream media, what you think you know may not be correct. Take the >quiz below and test your knowledge. >1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents. >False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although >you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last >year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age >died >in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age >group >was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space >heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die >from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great >majority >of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence. >2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the >hands of criminals. >False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show >loophole." >All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the >only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. >According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by >criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally >by people who passed background checks. >3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the >deficiencies >of current gun control laws. >False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in >amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it >seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this >tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased >by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 >handgun >used by them was already illegal. >4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower >crime rates than those that don't. >True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to >carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime >rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than >states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest >violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used >for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the >estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns. >5. Waiting periods lower crime rates. >False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, >both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies >consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and >murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck >analyzed >data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that >waiting >periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland >anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that "waiting periods have no >influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides." >6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works. >False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and >yet >the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws >and >murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In >Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on >demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both >nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, >and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of >gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low >despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in >the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no >correlation between access to guns and crime. >The basic premise of the gun control movement, that easy access to guns causes >higher crime, is contradicted by the facts, by history and by reason. Let's >hope more people are catching on. >-------------------------- > >"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an > invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write > a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort > the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, > solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program > a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die > gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein >Rosies Page http://rosie.acmecity.com/flower/277/ >homepage http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/gunner [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 13:47:01 -0700 From: "Ken Mitchell" Subject: ACT NOW!! (fwd) Another gun poll, on MS-NBC http://www.msnbc.com, and go to the "NRA" article. You can try http://www.msnbc.com/news/409691.asp to go directly to the article. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." Voltaire - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 00 12:06:30 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Dependency SSN/TIN alternative] (fwd) On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: "ScanThisNews" Subject: [FP] Dependency SSN/TIN alternative Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:48:56 -0500 ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 5.21.2000 Just received the following note about a bill being considered to provide an "alternative" to supplying SSNs in order to claim children on tax returns. As I have stated in the past, I personally oppose this and any other such "alternative" bill requiring affidavits and certifications "swearing" to the government that one's children are their own. How about a tattoo or microchip as an alternative to SSNs? As is so often the case, the Home School Legal Defense Fund organization (of which my family was a long-standing member for many years) -- well meaning as it is -- just doesn't get it. Get the government OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' LIVES. Period! No affidavits. Do certifications. No verifications. If you like jumping through hoops at the government's whim; if getting permission from the government to "claim" your children is your idea of "freedom, you might want to support Hostettler's SSN-alternative bill. Following is the late notice I just received -- should anyone whish to respond. And following that is the text of the subject bill. Scott - -----Original Message----- From: David Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 Subject: Fw: Dependency exemption and SSN Christopher Klicka with Home School Legal Defense Association will be testifying before congress on Monday in support of H.R. 2494 ( Cong. Hostettler bill ). He needs by tomorrow as many written testimonies as possible which include, 1) a brief statement of belief, 2) a statement of hardship that you are suffering by having to endure the pressure of compromising your convictions, and 3) the amount of money involved and its consequences for your family. this needs to be E-mailed to: mailto:testimony@hslda.org by Sunday, May 21, 2000. Sorry for the late notification. I only learned about this last Friday. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://thomas.loc.gov/ To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. (Introduced in the House) HR 2494 IH 106th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 2494 To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES July 13, 1999 Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. GOODLING, Mrs. CHENOWETH, Mr. PAUL, Mr. PITTS, Mr. BUYER, Mr. ENGLISH, Mr. MCINTOSH, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. SCHAFFER, Mr. STUMP, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. SHOWS, Mr. BALDACCI, and Mr. GARY MILLER of California) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means A BILL To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM TIN REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO DEPENDENTS. (a) IN GENERAL- Section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to identifying numbers) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: `(i) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION- `(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of any requirement to provide a TIN under a section of this title specified in paragraph (3), a taxpayer who has a sincerely held religious belief under which the taxpayer is conscientiously opposed to obtaining an identifying number with respect to a qualified dependent may, in lieu of such number, include the following with a return, statement, or other document required under the authority of this title: `(A) An affidavit describing such religious belief. `(B) An affidavit from a third party under which the third party, under penalty of perjury, states from personal knowledge that the qualified dependent meets one or more of the qualifications of each of the sections specified in paragraph (3) under which a credit or deduction is claimed by the taxpayer. `(C) Documentation to establish the relationship of the dependent to the taxpayer. Such documentation shall include a birth certificate, medical record, school record, or insurance record, or a combination thereof. `(2) QUALIFIED DEPENDENT- For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `qualified dependent' means a dependent (as defined in section 152) who is described in paragraph (1)(B) or (5)(C) of section 151(c). `(3) CREDIT AND DEDUCTION SECTIONS SPECIFIED- For purposes of paragraph (1), the sections specified in this paragraph are-- `(A) section 21 (relating to expenses for household and dependent care services necessary for gainful employment), `(B) section 23 (relating to adoption expenses), `(C) section 24 (relating to child tax credit), `(D) section 25A (relating to Hope and Lifetime Learning Credits). `(E) section 32 (relating to earned income credit), and `(F) section 151 (relating to allowance of deductions for personal exemptions).'. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendment made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 1996. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Social security is the bane of individual liberty. - SAM ====================================================================== Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ====================================================================== Reply to: ====================================================================== This is a copy of ScanThisNews, sent to contributors. For information on contributing, please visit our contributions web page: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-contributions.html To subscribe to the free ScanInReview abbreviated newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. 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Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ====================================================================== [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:34:47 -0500 From: larry ball Subject: Re: Dependency SSN/TIN alternative] (fwd) It would seem if this lady wants the government out of her life that she might accomplish this by not claiming the children as dependents. If you donot claim you do not have to declare. It is like the fish, if it avoids the bait it does not get caught. Even though the SSN for children might lead to some greater evil, the government has a right to know that they actually exist. After all no parent would claim a child on their tax return that does not exist, would they???? Well, really! You do not have to take their meat, but if you do, you have to use their butcher. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Bill Vance wrote: > On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > From: "ScanThisNews" > Subject: [FP] Dependency SSN/TIN alternative > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:48:56 -0500 > > ====================================================================== > SCAN THIS NEWS > 5.21.2000 > > Just received the following note about a bill being considered to provide an > "alternative" to supplying SSNs in order to claim children on tax returns. > As I have stated in the past, I personally oppose this and any other such > "alternative" bill requiring affidavits and certifications "swearing" to the > government that one's children are their own. > > How about a tattoo or microchip as an alternative to SSNs? > > As is so often the case, the Home School Legal Defense Fund organization (of > which my family was a long-standing member for many years) -- well meaning > as it is -- just doesn't get it. Get the government OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' > LIVES. Period! No affidavits. Do certifications. No verifications. > > If you like jumping through hoops at the government's whim; if getting > permission from the government to "claim" your children is your idea of > "freedom, you might want to support Hostettler's SSN-alternative bill. > > Following is the late notice I just received -- should anyone whish to > respond. And following that is the text of the subject bill. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: David > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 > Subject: Fw: Dependency exemption and SSN > > Christopher Klicka with Home School Legal Defense Association will be > testifying before congress on Monday in support of H.R. 2494 ( Cong. > Hostettler bill ). He needs by tomorrow as many written testimonies as > possible which include, 1) a brief statement of belief, 2) a statement of > hardship that you are suffering by having to endure the pressure of > compromising your convictions, and 3) the amount of money involved and its > consequences for your family. this needs to be E-mailed to: > > mailto:testimony@hslda.org by Sunday, May 21, 2000. > > Sorry for the late notification. I only learned about this last Friday. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://thomas.loc.gov/ > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. (Introduced in the House) > > HR 2494 IH > > 106th CONGRESS > > 1st Session > > H. R. 2494 > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. > > IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES > > July 13, 1999 > > Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. GOODLING, Mrs. CHENOWETH, Mr. PAUL, Mr. > PITTS, Mr. BUYER, Mr. ENGLISH, Mr. MCINTOSH, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. > SCHAFFER, Mr. STUMP, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. SHOWS, Mr. > BALDACCI, and Mr. GARY MILLER of California) introduced the following bill; > which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means > > A BILL > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. > > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United > States of America in Congress assembled, > > SECTION 1. RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM TIN REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO DEPENDENTS. > > (a) IN GENERAL- Section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating > to identifying numbers) is amended by adding at the end the following new > subsection: > > `(i) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION- > > `(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of any requirement to provide a TIN under a > section of this title specified in paragraph (3), a taxpayer who has a > sincerely held religious belief under which the taxpayer is conscientiously > opposed to obtaining an identifying number with respect to a qualified > dependent may, in lieu of such number, include the following with a return, > statement, or other document required under the authority of this title: > > `(A) An affidavit describing such religious belief. > > `(B) An affidavit from a third party under which the third party, under > penalty of perjury, states from personal knowledge that the qualified > dependent meets one or more of the qualifications of each of the sections > specified in paragraph (3) under which a credit or deduction is claimed by > the taxpayer. > > `(C) Documentation to establish the relationship of the dependent to the > taxpayer. Such documentation shall include a birth certificate, medical > record, school record, or insurance record, or a combination thereof. > > `(2) QUALIFIED DEPENDENT- For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `qualified > dependent' means a dependent (as defined in section 152) who is described in > paragraph (1)(B) or (5)(C) of section 151(c). > > `(3) CREDIT AND DEDUCTION SECTIONS SPECIFIED- For purposes of paragraph (1), > the sections specified in this paragraph are-- > > `(A) section 21 (relating to expenses for household and dependent care > services necessary for gainful employment), > > `(B) section 23 (relating to adoption expenses), > > `(C) section 24 (relating to child tax credit), > > `(D) section 25A (relating to Hope and Lifetime Learning Credits). > > `(E) section 32 (relating to earned income credit), and > > `(F) section 151 (relating to allowance of deductions for personal > exemptions).'. > > (b) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendment made by this section shall apply to > taxable years beginning after December 31, 1996. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Social security is the bane of individual liberty. - SAM > ====================================================================== > Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: > 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or > 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. > ====================================================================== > Reply to: > ====================================================================== > This is a copy of ScanThisNews, sent to contributors. 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Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message. > For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. > Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: > www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml > ====================================================================== > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #343 *************************