From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #344 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Monday, May 22 2000 Volume 02 : Number 344 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 May 00 19:35:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: We all owe her Thanks] (fwd) On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: Jim Welch Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:18:48 -0500 Subject: We all owe her Thanks I received the below e-mail from Sandy in Dallas. This lady has large Kazoos!! I cannot tell you how great it is to see activism instead of just constant e-mails. This woman and her son (my hat is off to how she raised the young man, too) stood tall for each and every American!! They took their time and energy and spent it constructively for all of us. We owe a thanks to each and evry 2nd Amendment Sister that stood for us! Not many had what it takes to stand up to the criticism of the politically correct, but Sandy and Son did. I am so proud for and of her. Yes, I wish I could have been there also. Sandy, it is people like you that hold the best hope for preserving what Liberty is left in America, and represent the possibility of the full restoration of our Republic. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I feel so guilty for not being more active. My ever waking moment has been involved with my business. Thank you, Sandy. Keep it up. You are a damn good leader. Jim Welch xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jim, Wish you have been in Fort Worth! You would have been so proud of us! Ivan, my mad son, took $40 and began on Monday to promote a protest of the protest. He first contacted the Second Amendment Sisters and asked if he could organize in Fort Worth. A single word came back, "GO!" We issued flyers at the gun show and around town. Calls were made non stop by me, him and his friends. We mustered in 75 really good folks who presented themselves extraordinarily well. A great banner unfurled with the second Amendment in 6inch type. An Elian poster asking if this was a child proof weapon or just another Waco dream for Janet. "Educate, don't legislate" was our shout. Channel 11 focused on me when I asked a shouter if he thought only police should have guns. Ivan got airtime on 4, 5 and 8. He planned the event maneuvers. It was take the high ground behind the podium and close to it so that they could not get media coverage of their speeches with all the children in the background as they had planned. It worked like magic. They thought we were going to just stand across the street and be nice with our mean knuckle dragging wild shooters. Just as they were within 50 yards of the podium, we moved into place and our wings moved out to allow no breach of the space behind us. We stood tall and each displayed our posters while making a quiet STAND for the second. As the mommies approached with gapping months and looks of disbelief, some of their hired leaders, one rather chubby limp wristed Black fello comes to mind, began to shout rather unfriendly slurs at us. Our chant began. Then the mothers started shouting. The saber rattling went on for some time giving both sides a great deal of energy. The orchestrators were clustered around the police and frantically pointing their fingers. Our congressman told Ivan and I we had lost all rights to speak to him. LOL, like I want to talk to Martin Frost's house boy anyway! The officers finally filed into rank between us and the stage. We shifted one step back to allow them a passing space. The lead officer stood in front of Ivan who was in the middle and asked, "Can I get you to leave without any trouble?" The answer was NO. Ivan had instructed the group that once the officers asked three times, we would parade back to our first position. They did not ask again. Instead the officers stood and protected us. A paid provocateur, obvious by his unmother like appearance, came charging our line. Spouting that he would get us arrested. I asked how and he began shouting things that would cause a sailor to faint. He poked his finger in my face and began to swing a small mommy's paper hand fan at us. We did not flinch. The officer however shifted by spreading his legs in a wide stand, barely tripping the fella and nudging him on the shoulder as he shifted his weight. Then the officers head snapped around and he began a staring contest with the provocateur. The guy blinked first and retreated. Later he was standing in our line. We supposed he was waiting for a buddy from the other side to provoke him. We gave him a sign and closed ranks closely around him. The officers on that end kept a close watch on the rascal. Who knows, maybe he was just really a nutcase. Either way, he was not even a bump in the road. Our shouting and chanting kept good pace with the speakers. My sign was special. It just said "LIES". It would be held up when one was heard. Down when one woman spoke of teaching our children tolerance. Up again when they spoke of how guns are shooting our kids. "Somebody pulled the trigger lady", was the shout. More kids die in 5 gallon buckets! Pipe bombs are more deadly than a gun! We need plumbing control, not more gun control! Guns are illegal on school grounds now! Illegal in DC. Not illegal on gun ranges! When was the last time a mass shooting happened at a gun range?" On and on we went. It was great fun. We had some mothers come and stand on our side. Not one of our protesters left for theirs. How many millions did that protest cost? How many thousands in Fort Worth? Every mom had a T-shirt, a button, a black carnation and a hand fan. Wanta guess? Wanta guess the amount of damage $40 and 75 people did to their little parade? :-) Lon Burnam was furious with us. Ivan took protest lessons from Ron 10 years ago. Ivan learned his lessons well. Lon screamed a question at me. "Would you protest a funeral? These poor mothers are grieving their dead children!" My response was, "You bet, as long as you keep dragging out those kids caskets for political mileage! I certainly will!" So, the next time someone tells ya that a small group of dedicated citizens can't make a difference when they carry truth in a prepared force, don't buy it. Wish you'd been here Jim, it was great! Sandy [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 00 22:26:52 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [our-constitution] MMM Pop Quiz (fwd) On May 21, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ///SENT FYI //////// >From: Chris Smith >Date: 21 May 00 17:04:30 MDT >Reply-To: our-constitution@egroups.com >Subject: [our-constitution] MMM Pop Quiz > >A quiz for Million Mom marchers to consider. OK now no cheating > >1. Ted Kennedy, Charles Schumer and Barbara Boxer strongly denounce private >gun ownership. Their bodyguards, however, carry: > >A. Berettas >B. Glocks >C. Garbage can lids >D. Slingshots > >2. You and your baby daughter are awakened in the middle of the night by >your estranged, abusive ex-husband. Although you have a restraining order >against him, he is drunk and beats down your front door with a crowbar >screaming, "If I can't have you, nobody can!" You should: > >A. Call Barbara Boxer. >B. Call 911 >C. Threaten legal action. >D. Grab a ping-pong paddle. >E. Reason with him (maybe he was an abused child). > >3. Since 1987, 34 states have enacted concealed carry laws. Violent crime >decreased in these states and the anticipated "Dodge City" mayhem never >materialized. Even critics were surprised. Concealed carry succeeded >because: > >A. Sunspot activity decreased after 1987. >B. Trigger locks rendered guns inoperative and therefore safe. >C. Sarah Brady scared the crooks away. >D. A healing wave of pacifism swept over the hearts of criminals in these 34 >states. >E. All of the above. > >4. Schools, churches, subways, and restaurants have often been assaulted, but >rarely military bases, police stations, or shooting clubs because: > >A. The targets aren't sitting or kneeling. >B. VA benefits are lost if you shoot a soldier. >C. You can't enter an army base without bumper stickers. >D. Schools don't threaten felons with detention hall. >E. All of the above. > >5. Logic, reason, and common sense: > >A. Are irrelevant if they contradict your feelings. >B. Should not apply to firearms. >C. Defy opinion polls. >D. Pale beside hysteria, fear, and political ambition. >E. All of the above. > >Regards, >Chris >http://www.inficad.com/~csmith > > From a heathen and a pagan on the side of the rebel Jesus. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] Now _thats_ a bit different..... - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 May 00 23:29:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: I need help/aborticide (fwd) On May 21, Lynn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -Check your Dictionary from the days when America was American. (nore so than now, anyway) > > My old (1951) Webster's Dictionary has these > definitions. I looked in a newer one and > ABORTICIDE is conveniently missing. > > ************************** > > abort (L. abortare, fr. abortus, PAST > PARTICIPLE > of aboriri, fr. ab + oriri to rise, be born) > to give birth prematurely > > abortion- the expulsion of the mammalian fetus > prematurely, particularly at any time before it > is viable; miscarriage. > > aborticide- Act of destroying a fetus in the > womb > > -cide a suffix meaning a killing > > abortionist- One who produces criminal > abortions > > ****************************************** > Aborticide is a word that needs to be used much > more frequently. As you know, just because the > LAW has been passed, it does not change the > fact > that aborticide IS murder, and even if man does > not judge, our God in heaven will. > > ===== Gun Owners choose... Best pro gun news... Silver based currency... News from out west... Patriot Mary Kay Lady... America's Voice... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 00 10:43:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Interesting Analysis (fwd) On May 22, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ///SENT FYI??// This is a very interesting article. Better reading than most./////////// Looks like we are heading for more of the same mess./////// >Interesting analysis. > >The Art Of War - Sun Tzu and Four American Presidents > >By Tom Adkins > >Over two thousand years ago, an ancient Chinese warrior wrote a brief book >on warfare. His name was Sun Tzu. His book, The Art of War, is now a staple >for virtually any military strategic training. Sun Tzu barely mentioned >weaponry. Instead, he focused on strategies. Strategies that convert to >winning and losing. His insights into the nature of competition, battle and >diplomacy apply to virtually every aspect of life, from the battlefield to >the boardroom, from the football arena to the global arena. > >Within this context, let's briefly examine the greatest challenges of our >four most recent American presidents. > >Jimmy Carter versus Leonid Brezhnev 1976-1980 > >I say: Know your enemy and know >yourself; in a hundred battles, you >will never be defeated. When you are >ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, >your chances of winning or losing are >equal. If ignorant both of your enemy >and of yourself, you are sure to be >defeated in every battle. -Sun Tzu > > From the end of World War Two, United States foreign policy towards the >Soviet Union was essentially a "keep up with the Jones-ski's." If the >Soviets made a bomb, we made a bomb. If the Soviets built a tank, we built >a tank. > >Essentially, we treaded water. > >Jimmy Carter was the first president to buck that trend. Carter slashed our >military and proposed we become buddies with the Soviets. The Soviet Union >promptly took over ten countries. When the USSR marched into Afghanistan, >Carter responded by withdrawing from the Olympics. Carter didn't understand >that leaders bent upon world domination usually aren't concerned with track >and field events. During Carter's term, world leaders smelled his weakness. >The OPEC nations pulled back production of oil, driving prices to four >times their 1976 level. This created "Stagflation," when energy prices >skyrocketing regardless of economic conditions. The cost of everything rose >overnight, crushing the American economy. > > >But Carter wasn't done. He decided that it would be wonderful to put >virtually the entire nation on the dole. All sorts of government >entitlement programs were created and expanded. Few worked and most of them >caused heavy damage. Taxes rose. The economy slumped. Interest rates >quadrupled. Poverty rose. The economy staggered. All because Carter wanted >to play horseshoes with the Soviet Union, who essentially wanted to destroy >the United States. Carter invited them to a tea party. The Soviets showed >up and played smash-mouth rugby. > >Our military was toothless, our intelligence organizations were hollow, and >our nation was floundering. Carter left office with America on its knees. > >Nobody respected us, and we were powerless to show them otherwise. > >It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come, but rather >to rely on one's readiness to meet him; not to presume that he will not >attack, but rather to make one's self invincible. -Sun Tzu > >Ronald Reagan versus Mikhail Gorbachev 1980-1988 > >To subdue the enemy without fighting >is the supreme excellence. -Sun Tzu > >Ronald Reagan inherited a terrible economy, a nation with no international >respect, and a bold, expanding Soviet Union. He tossed away the old concept >of military parity along with the Carter concept of capitulation and took >it upon himself to defeat the Soviet Union. Reagan recognized that a >socialist economy barely functions. By rebuilding American armed forces, >Reagan challenged the Soviet Union to keep up. They obliged. Our military >spending increased to 27% of our federal budget. > >But the Soviets needed 60% of their budget to keep up. That math didn't >work well for the USSR. But the Soviets were willing to bleed their people >dry. > >Nothing is more difficult than the art >of maneuvering for advantageous >positions. -Sun Tzu > >Reagan had a stroke of brilliance. The Soviets relied upon hard currency to >maintain their straining military budget. And there was only one source of >Soviet hard currency; Oil. Reagan tripled the foreign aid to Israel, Egypt >and Saudi Arabia to about 3 billion each, but under the following >conditions: > >1-They stop fighting. >2-They buy American military hardware. >3-Saudi Arabia increase oil production to meet American demand. > >The Saudi's opened up the oil spigots. Overnight, the price of oil dropped >below $20 per barrel. In one fell swoop, Reagan brought peace to the middle >east, boosted the American economy with lower energy prices, and eliminated >the only source of money to fund the Soviet army. It actually became more >expensive for the Russians to pump oil than it was worth. The USSR was on >its knees, ripe for defeat. Shortly after, Reagan announced the Strategic >Defense Initiative. The USSR tossed in its hand. Within 24 months, the USSR >was no longer in existence. > >Until Clinton, our economy benefited from lower oil prices and less >military spending. All because Reagan won the Cold War. That Victory wasn't >the sum of efforts from previous presidents. Reagan alone won the Cold War. >Without firing a shot. Few give him credit for his utter political >brilliance. > >When Reagan left office, America held unprecedented prestige and strength. > >The victories won by a master of war >gain him neither reputation for wisdom >nor merit for courage. How subtle and >insubstantial, that the expert leaves >no trace. How divinely mysterious, >that he is inaudible. Thus, he is master >of his enemy's fate. -Sun Tzu > >George Bush versus Saddaam Hussein 1990-1992 > >A speedy victory is the main object in war.-Sun Tzu > >Sometimes, diplomacy is as delicate as gossamer. Sometimes diplomacy is a >sledgehammer. And sometimes, it's both. The first serious challenge to >George Bush's "New World Order" was issued by Saddaam Hussein. Everyone >knew Reagan didn't take any crap from anyone. Like all bullies, Hussein was >anxious to test the mettle of this new president the press labeled as >"Wimp." > >Big mistake. Every world leader should know better than to believe the >American press. Not only did Bush have iron balls, he had brilliant >diplomatic skills. He actually knitted the whole world into a blanket of >agreement against Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. This political >accomplishment was like herding a hundred cats. Except cats with nuclear >claws, bad attitudes, and who often hated one another. > >While we have heard of stupid haste in >war, we have not yet seen a clever >operation that was prolonged. -Sun Tzu > >When the Gulf War was over, the United States enjoyed its peak influence in >the world. Nobody doubted any facet of our nation whatsoever. In less than >ten years, Reagan and Bush took America from laughingstock to absolute >respect. Say what you want about Bush. He was uncomfortable. Boring. And he >didn't discuss his underwear on MTV. But diplomatically, he was brilliant, >perhaps better than Reagan. He knew what had to be done. He knew it was a >monumental task. He knew how to do it. And he did it. Bush left office with >America unquestionably the only world superpower, allies all over the >globe, and very few enemies. > >The general who in advancing does not seek >personal fame, and in withdrawing is not >concerned with avoiding punishment, but >whose only purpose is to protect the people >and promote the best interests of his sovereign >is like a precious jewel to the state. -Sun Tzu > >Bill Clinton versus China > >Appraise war in terms of the fundamental >factors. The first of these factors is moral >influence. -Sun Tzu > >Befuddled Americans think Bill Clinton's major war is in Yugoslavia. >Actually, Clinton's war is with China. And he already lost. Under Clinton's >watch, China has successfully stolen, bought, or was simply given the >blueprints for every modern American nuclear weapon-and the guidance >systems to accurately deliver them. Like Reagan's brilliant victory over >the Soviet Union, China never fired a shot. They simply waited until we had >a corruptible president, and simply corrupted him. > >One who is not acquainted with the >designs of his neighbors should not >enter into alliances with them. -Sun Tzu > >Bill Clinton's political prostitution has never been questioned. It's >always been a matter of price. Wise world leaders have long recognized >Clinton as an egotistical political charlatan, capable of being elected in >a nation enamored with personality and ignorant of wisdom. Such leaders >aren't spun by James Carville and Dan Rather. Instead, they laugh at >Clinton's bumbling and self-aggrandizement. Then take advantage of him. No >wonder the Chinese wanted Clinton to be president. > >All warfare is based on deception. There is >no place where espionage is not used. Offer >the enemy bait to lure him. -Sun Tzu > >The political greed of Clinton and his Democrats drove them directly into >the Chinese espionage trap. Like all nations, China has been snooping >around for years, picking up a snippet here, a spoonful there. But under >Clinton's watch, China got the entire bag of goodies. It wasn't even >expensive. For a few million dollars to the DNC, China gained complete >access and even protection via Janet Reno's Justice Department. When >Clinton's people discovered the damage, they did nothing. When the damage >came to light, Clinton's administration tried to blame everyone else. What >could they do? > >Admit their treason? > >Those who excel in war first cultivate their >own humanity and justice and maintain their >laws and institutions. By these means they >make their governments invincible. -Sun Tzu > >Led by his pathological ego, Clinton breaks rules and laws at his, >victimizing friends and foes alike. In the meantime, he stumbles from one >manufactured crisis to another, all designed to cover his tracks. He >distracts the nation by flinging bombs across the world, converting >sleeping dogs into resentful enemies. Meanwhile, China picked our pockets >and built coalitions against us while Clinton parades around, a team of >flakes shilling for him. Clinton inherited a world that respected America, >and like a drunken gambler, parlayed American prestige into the gutter. He >managed to destroy the careful coalition of nations aligned against Iraq. >He ruined world confidence in NATO. He managed to weaken Russia as a state, >yet strengthen their diplomatic presence. He strengthened China's hand >unimaginably, creating instability in the region. He simultaneously stoked >the nuclear fires between India and Pakistan, two wary but previously >contented enemies. > >Now, rogue nations such as North Korea and Iran are stretching their claws, >armed with Chinese missiles which can reach America. And Taiwan is just a >bit edgier today. When Clinton leaves office, America will have less >friends than his first day as President. Thanks to Reagan and Bush, the >United States isn't on her knees. But Clinton proved America is willing to >turn a few tricks for the right price. > >When the leader is morally weak and his >discipline not strict, when his instructions >and guidance are not enlightened, when >there are no consistent rules. Neighboring >rulers will take advantage of this". -Sun Tzu > >Every nation is perpetually at war. For a president, every move, every >word, every action has consequences to the entire nation from that moment >well into the future. The concepts behind successfully leading a nation are >not new, but the arrogant and power-hungry seem to create endless varieties >of how to commit the same mistakes. The less we pay attention, the greater >damage each mistake creates. > >On this Memorial Day, remember those who fought for our nation, especially >those who gave their lives so we may be free. Consider how easily their >sacrifice can be squandered. And how often it has happened. And whether you >will ever let that happen to another American son or daughter. > >War is a matter of vital importance to >the state; a matter of life or death, the >road either to survival or to ruin. -Sun Tzu > >Randy Bates >ZIBEX Corporation >1640 W. Sam Houston Pkwy N >Houston, Texas 77043 >Ph.713-479-4342 >fax 713-479-4399 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 00 10:45:23 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: 45 Slaves Set Free In Texas - HALLELUJIAH (fwd) On May 22, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY Another example of walking the walk. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From: TOMaxton You might like to copy and send this out. I think it is the start of something big. Tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have confirmed the following post I received and I am sending to you FYI. Direct your company to do business with Arrow Plastics if you can. The content of the post can be verified by yourself quickly being that on Arrow Plastics Web site they clearly state they have taken the following action. My hat is off to them. Walter Burien C.E.V.I. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dick Simkanin" > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 00 13:18:57 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Ted Rall on the abortion debate: let honesty rain down! (fwd) On May 22, Ry Jones wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Pass it along... http://www.uexpress.com/ups/opinion/column/ru/rallcom/2000/04/ru000427.html RATIONALIZATION NATION An Anti-BS Abortion Manifesto NEW YORK -- I believe that women ought to possess the legal right to murder their unborn babies. In other words, I'm pro-choice in the way that the vast majority of Americans are pro-choice: I think upper-income married couples who have abortions to avoid scheduling conflicts are despicable, that having multiple abortions is obscene, and that parental-consent laws are de facto nullification of Roe v. Wade (abortion exists so that unwed teen moms can turn themselves back into unwed teens). Unlike most of my friends, however, I refuse to rationalize my stance on abortion by claiming that fetuses aren't babies. I didn't kick ass in biology, but I was awake enough to grasp that life begins at conception; the instant a lucky sperm fertilizes an egg, bang! -- an office clerk, an opera singer or a homeless person is born. That life begins with cell division is the only logical conclusion after all the standard pro-choice postulates are disregarded. If life begins only when the being can sustain itself outside the womb (a laughably common argument), then many college students are nothing more than lumps of legally abortable protoplasm. If it starts at the point when a fetus could be removed and still live, that date keeps moving backward thanks to advances in medicine, which would mean that a three-month-after-conception fetus born in 2000 would be entitled to legal protection while one born in 1950 would not. And if the Magic Moment occurs when fetuses start to look like people, whatever that means, what about adults with extreme birth defects? No, life begins at conception, give or take a few inconsequential moments. Though I don't agree with it, I respect the pro-life position. If life begins at conception, then abortion is the murder of innocent children, and even the most extreme measures -- including violent attacks on abortion clinics -- are morally justifiable to stop it. So why am I pro-choice? There's simply no other solution for teen pregnancy than to kill their children. Thousands of kids given up for adoption grow up being abused and neglected in foster homes and government facilities because they couldn't muster up sufficiently fetching smiles on viewing days. I submit that they'd be better off dead. Thousands more suffer through horrific poverty because their mothers didn't put them out of their misery. Animal shelters kill millions of dogs and cats every month; similarly, abortionists address the needs of irresponsible humans who choose to reproduce as unconsciously as dogs and cats. Like meat-eaters who couldn't kill a cow to save their lives, pro-choicers who rationalize their support of this necessary business aren't willing to face its sordid truth because they aren't truly pro-choice. Because these pathetic losers don't have the stomach for reality, they pretend that fetuses aren't alive, much less little people (can we say "babies"?). They hold a justifiable position based on flawed, patently untrue premises, and in so doing help contribute to the subtle undermining of abortion rights that has accelerated since the Reagan years -- first parental notification laws, now the possible banning of icky "partial-birth" abortions, and the overturning of Roe v. Wade if would-be-prez George W. Bush gets to appoint any justices to the Supreme Court. Though substantially more rhetorically consistent, pro-lifers suffer from their own obsessive self-rationalization. Some have been duly noted by those of us on the left -- pro-lifers more often than not favor murdering murderers, conservatives only care about babies before they're born, and so on -- but by far their worst rationalization is the exception they make in their anti-abortion position for cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother. After all, the offspring of rapists and their victims are just as innocent as any other fetuses. Permitting these murders of unborn babies renders the whole pro-life position null and void, but that's because they're not truly pro-life. Like their PC pals on the other side of the barricades, they refuse to face up to an uncomfortable truth: The only moral difference between advocating the murder of 99 unborn babies and the murder of one is that of scale. And the only principled conclusion on the mom's-life front must logically favor a brand-new baby with 78.2 years left to live over an adult woman, regardless of whether or not the latter votes in a swing state. Opposing abortion is by definition an absolutist position, and few Americans have the guts for ideologies more strident than mealy-mouthed compromise. Both sides of the abortion debate share this mental flaw; ironically, the perverse urge to settle with opponents by giving in on the details is why abortion is the least resolvable of contemporary political issues. It's also a revealing examination of our befuddled national state of mind. (Ted Rall, a cartoonist and columnist for Universal Press Syndicate, is the winner of the 2000 Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award for outstanding coverage of the problems of the disadvantaged. He also won in 1995.) COPYRIGHT 2000 TED RALL [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 May 00 15:11:29 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Two MMM Organizations? (fwd) On May 22, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Reply-to: LadyLiberty@Visto.Com> FYI - PLEASE POST FAR & WIDE -- TOOOOOOOO EVERYONE!!!!!! I just pulled the following letter off of the MMM Web site -Here's their plan of attack! Ladies & gentlemen.... they have declared war! They do NOT want sensible gun laws! THEY WANT YOUR GUNS! PLEASE NOTE! They say the are "the Million Mom March is moving forward as the largest national grassroots organization in this country working for sensible gun laws." What happened to HCI ? I thought they were the largest? To: Million Mom Marchers From: Mary Leigh Blek Re: Forming a Million Mom Chapter Dated: May 19, 2000 The response since our incredible marches in Washington, D.C. and across the country has been incredible. There were 750,000 at the DC march and tens of thousands at local marches. The national office has been flooded with calls, e-mails and faxes offering support, congratulations and countless "thank yous". Our website had over 5 million "hits". Of course, we thank all of you who joined this new movement. We will pass sensible gun laws in America. The most frequently asked question is "How do I get involved?" I encourage you to start Million Mom March Chapters. The Bell Campaign has 45 chapters around the country that as of yesterday are now Million Mom March Chapters. The board of directors of The Bell Campaign voted unanimously to merge the two organizations for the benefit of the movement. The Bell Campaign=B9s legacy will live on through the bell as a symbol of freedom from gun trauma. The Bell Campaign=B9s model is providing for instant structure and organization, which we will need to stay on track. With that said, the Million Mom March is moving forward as the largest national grassroots organization in this country working for sensible gun laws. Let me briefly explain the structure of our new national organization since it serves as a model for local chapters. Under established rules of the internal revenue service (IRS), we have created two sister organizations. The Million Mom March is a non-profit 501(c)(4) organization, which will allow Million Mom Marchers to lobby for passage of our gun policies. The Million Mom March Foundation is a non- profit 501(c) (3) that is primarily educational and service oriented. The board of directors is composed of the same individuals for both "sides" of our organization. (Please note: 501(c)(4) and 501(c)(3) are references to the IRS codes that describe what are allowable activities for a lobbying and educational non-profit organization.) If you wish to form a Million Mom March Chapter, you can download an application form from our website or contact the national office for a hard copy on or after May 25, 2000. You will discover that a chapter has two "sides" too; a lobbying side=8Ba 501(c)(4), and an educational/service side a 501(c)(3). Therefore, if your interest is solely to lobby for sensible gun laws, you will be able to engage in those activities provided they are in keeping with the policy goals of the Million Mom March. If, on the other hand, you wish to establish a speaker=B9s bureau, or a youth gun violence prevention program, or be trained in providing "victim resources" just to name a few 501(c)(3) educational/service type programs, you will be able to pursue those activities. Or, maybe, you have members within your chapter who wish to engage in both types of activities, you will be able to accomplish that; it will be your choice. The most important distinction between the c4 and the c3 is that donations to a c3 are tax deductible while donations to a c4 are not. In addition, foundations are only allowed to provide grants to c3 organizations. If you are not familiar with the world of IRS regulations and non-profit organizations do not be deterred. After you apply to become a chapter, we will provide you with a Chapter Manual that will answer most, if not all, of your questions. Our national and regional offices will also be available to answer your questions. We plan to keep the process simple and streamlined as possible and we always appreciate your feedback so that we can make the process work for you. Our goal is to provide you with the legal structure to educate and serve your community, to lobby, or both. So, you wish to start a Million Mom March Chapter. Please submit an application form and we will start the process with you. Once you become an official chapter, we become that much more powerful as a unified voice. We simply ask that you bear with us as we respond to the thousands of requests for assistance. We are now part of an historic movement and it is just a matter of time and we will be living in a more peaceful and safe nation. Thank you for taking your precious time to make the Million Mom March march on! p.s. Donna Dees-Thomases has asked me to take over day-to-day responsibilities as she returns to being a fulltime mother. Donna will remain active in the MMM as a member of the Board. I remain... Your lady in liberty, Lady Liberty (aka: Patricia A. Saye) c/o P. O. Box #15070 Las Vegas, Nevada Phone: (702) 649-6808 E-Fax: (509) 278-2496 ATTENTION EVERYONE: The "new" E-Mail address I was using: LadyLiberty@Hushmail.Com does not meet my needs, as I thought it would. Therefore, it would be appreciated, if everyone would discontinue its use, and use: LadyLiberty@Visto.Com instead. However, the "new" E-Mail address is listed on the "Second Amendment Sisters" web site, and I like to restrict it to "official use" of the SAS-AIMM. Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated. EFFECTIVE MAY 10TH, 2000 If possible, please hold all E-mail so they are not returned to you. I am packing my bags and going to Washington - District of Criminals, to join the SAS-AIMM to let them know how we feel about the infringement on our "right to keep and bear arms"! BEEN ABUSED BY THE GOVERNMENT? 1.) If you were scheduled as a guest on "The Liberty Hour" to tell your story of tyrannical government abuse & your interview was cancelled due to Internet audio problems, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 to be re-scheduled. You will be scheduled on a first-come basis. Please help me save time by typing "Re-Scheduled Interview" in the subject line. 2.) If you have never been scheduled as a guest on "The Liberty Hour" to tell your story of tyrannical government abuse & would like to share your story, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 to be scheduled. You will be scheduled on a first-come basis. Please help me save time by typing "Tyrannical Abuse" in the subject line. 3. If you have a video recording of tyrannical government abuse you have had to endure & you would like to have your story exposed, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 because I have an individual who wants to make a documentary of these tyrannical acts and expose our out-of-control government. Please help me save time by typing "Documentary Video" in the subject line. 4) Had enough tyrannical government abuse, then join me and others across the nation by becoming a member of TRT! What is TRT? The "Tyranny Response Team" and it is sweeping the nation with great response! Check out the "Tyranny Response Team" web site at: www.trteam.com Look to see if there is a TRT in your state. If not, start one today! If there is, join it today! There is no time to waste. THE GREAT THING ABOUT "TRT" IS, IT IS NOT A ONE ISSUE GROUP! THEY STAND UP FOR ALL OF OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, AND THEY ARE THERE WHEN YOU NEED THEM! CAN'T BEAT THAT! "The Minutemen of the year 2000!" Calling all Nevadans! There is not a "TRT" in Nevada and we need a few good men & women. Please join me and others working to form a "Nevada TRT" - The Minutemen of 2000 in Nevada! Call me: (702) 649-6808 for more information. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #344 *************************