From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #349 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, June 1 2000 Volume 02 : Number 349 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:05:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Paul M Watson Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #348 Not sure if I can still post., About Norm Olson, he is A: A dumb hick , B: A dumb hick who works for the feds. Anyone remember his Senate Hearing on the Militia movement? I do the guy screwed the only chance the so called "patriot movement" ever had to express something other than bunker buddy idiots. All these guys scream wolf at White trucks from the UN, our own trains doing normal movements of our own military equipment and hundreds of other cry wolf un-verified crap. Its know wonder none of these folks were real commissioned officers, they are grunts and nothing more. There is no oil shortage, there is a increase in demand vs world supply, not the same thing. About not being able to sue a school district, you almost can not sue any government except for things they by law allow. Even here with our bad math, and feel good Plano Texas system, there is nothing keeping all the parents from electing the right people to the school board. Just like you can not sue for an election electing the person you voted against. The point is if the good citizens elect a bunch of fools to government who then pass poor laws for poor products from the school system or any other area in government it is legal and what we voted for. There is not a contract with the people for good government with contractual obligations. Government is a agent of the people who then contracts for them. I have an issue all the time where people call me wanting a tax exempt number for my University not to pay taxes. I have to call them and try and explain that we are the State government and exempt from state and federal taxes because of the 10th amendment. A tax exempt number is for a not for profit corporation. There is a contract for limited government called a State and Federal constitution. Good government only comes with good people elected to government. Regards, - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Watson C.P.M., pwatson@utdallas.edu Senior Buyer UTD The University of Texas at Dallas President of ASCC Autism Society of Collin County ASCC Home Page http://www.autism-ascc.org These views are mine alone and not any organization - -------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 00 20:52:37 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Intelligence Report For The Memorial Day Recess (fwd) On May 31, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Intelligence Report For The Memorial Day Recess Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:41:31 -0500 From: odellh@juno.com To: hirider@wt.net Gun Rights / Control: "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance, which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime----and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) - --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gun_Owners_Of_America@mailmanager.net GOA's Intelligence Report For The Memorial Day Recess -- Congress to take up legislation affecting your gun rights after extended break (Wednesday, May 31, 2000) -- Congress is out of session this week, but your representatives still need to hear from you. Below are two items of great concern to our liberties. Rep. Hostettler To Offer Amendments Stopping BATF From Enforcing Recent Gun Restrictions Remember the Clinton & Wesson agreement from back in March? Well, pro-gun Rep. John Hostettler (R-IN) is still determined to stop the Clinton administration from imposing backdoor gun control upon a good portion of the gun industry through its recent deal with Smith & Wesson. You will recall that the Clinton & Wesson agreement regulates the sales of ALL firearms sold by dealers carrying S&W products -- including Glocks, Berettas, Brownings, etc. Moreover, no gun can be sold by an S&W dealer until the FBI gives a definitive "yes" or "no." Thus, if the FBI's computers go down (like they did just a couple of weeks ago) no S&W dealer can transfer a firearm until the government's computers go back online and the FBI gives its verdict. Since Clinton could not get Congress to do his dirty work, he pulled off a legislative coup d'etat by enlisting the help of S&W and the BATF. But the Clinton & Wesson deal can only work if the BATF gets funds to pay for their involvement in the Oversight Commission created by the accord. That's where Hostettler hopes to score big. He's ready to offer amendments to two appropriation bills, defunding any BATF involvement in the pact. Without funds for the BATF, the federal government cannot enforce the agreement. Please stay tuned for future alerts, as GOA will keep you up to date with Hostettler's plans. He will soon begin targeting both the HUD appropriations bill and funding for the BATF in the Treasury-Postal appropriations bill. (Both bills are still in committee and have yet to receive a legislative number.) Oppose Legislation Giving Clinton The Power To Conduct Secret Searches On Your Property Like a weed spreading through your garden, a provision proposing to give the Justice Department frightening new powers keeps popping up in bill after bill. Specifically, this "sneak and peek" provision would let the government sneak onto your property while you were away, seize certain items from your home and not tell you about it for months -- if at all. Currently, the provisions are in two bills (the bankruptcy and methamphetamine bills), but if the provision becomes law, it would apply to all federal agents and all searches and seizures -- not just those affecting bankruptcy and drug cases. Dave Kopel of the Independence Institute has noted that:=20=20 When conducting searches, federal agents are currently required to announce their presence before entering, and to provide an inventory of any items they take. Because the person whose home or business is being searched knows about the search, he can exercise his Fourth Amendment rights, and make sure that the police have a properly-issued search warrant. He can also see if the search is being conducted according to the warrant's terms -- i.e., the police are searching only for items authorized by the warrant, they are searching the right address, etc. But under a Secret Searches law, federal police could enter a person's home surreptitiously, conduct a search, and not tell the homeowner until months later. Even months later, the police would not have to provide an inventory of 'intangible' items which were taken in a search. So if the police entered your home secretly, and photocopied your diary or made a copy of your computer hard disk, they would never have to inform you of their actions. Of course, one wonders what those sneaky Clinton officials will do when they see certain "tangible" items in your home -- like that Remington 1100 hanging in the family room, or the 9mm Beretta in the top drawer of your desk? ACTION: Please ask your Representative and Senators to oppose any bill that contains these Secret Search provisions. They have already been deleted from one bill, but still remain in the bankruptcy reform bill (H.R. 833) and the Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation bill (H.R. 2987). The former bill, H.R. 833, is in a House-Senate conference committee -- thus, both Senators and Representatives will be voting on this bill again. It is expected that the latter bill, H.R. 2987, will be voted on in the House in the near future. You can use the GOA Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to contact Congress and send messages. The toll-free Capitol switchboard number is 1-888-449-3511. A pre-written message is provided below. The Clinton administration is strongly in favor of the Secret Search proviso and is lobbying Congress to get it passed. If administration lobbyists are thwarted in getting their expanded powers from these two bills, they will certainly try to get the proviso planted in other bills as well. Encourage your legislators to read the bills they vote for (a novel idea) and to vote against any bill that allows for officials to conduct secret searches on your property. NOTE for Utah activists: Sen. Orrin Hatch is one of the prime backers of the Secret Search proviso, and he has been fervently working at getting it snuck into different legislation. Thus, one Republican Congressman has asked GOA to please urge its members to let Senator Hatch know you oppose the "sneak and peek" provision. If Sen. Hatch gets enough "heat" from his home state, he may relent on this dangerous provision. - ----- Pre-written message ----- Dear Representative or Senator, Please oppose any and all attempts to enact "Secret Search" provisions. Such provisions (as currently found in H.R. 833 and H.R. 2987) would give frightening new powers to the Justice Department at the expense of constitutional liberties. The Fourth Amendment specifically protects a person from unreasonable searches and seizures. However, "Secret Search" legislation turns that amendment on its head by allowing completely surreptitious searches. Worse, certain types of property may then be seized -- without any notification to a homeowner whatsoever. Private records such as computer files could be copied at will. Such intrusive powers are usually associated with dictatorships, not free societies. There is no possible legislative vehicle that would be anything other than an abomination if it contained such blatant abuses of power. I request that you vote against any and all legislation, regardless of other merits, that includes "Secret Search" provisions. Sincerely, ________________________________________________________________ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 00 23:37:01 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: If Gunowners were treated like other minorities (fwd) On May 31, David W Shuee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] If Gunowners Were Treated Like Other Minorities By Emily X - Posted: 05.29.00 Ron Miller's article "If Guns Were Treated Like Cars" inspired the following list. IF GUNOWNERS WERE TREATED LIKE OTHER MINORITIES 1. Gunowners would be able to freely express their ideas, and anyone who disagreed would be shunned as a pathetic unthinking hoplophobe. 2. If a gunowner had to defend herself by displaying or using a handgun, bleeding-heart liberals would defend the right to do so because she's part of the 45% minority of people who own guns. 3. A quarter of the tax burden of the federal government would be dedicated to subsidizing ownership and use. The federal government would implement special programs where less affluent gunowners could take "gun stamps" to sporting goods stores and redeem them for ammunition. 4. A gunowner could carry any gun across state lines and not have any state's laws apply to you because federal anti-discrimination law trumps state laws. And of course, the federal government would not limit what kind of gun anyone could buy, because would be violate federal laws against discrimination based on religious belief. 5. There would be "tolerance" commercials on television, pleading with non-owners "can't we all just get along?" 6. Really poor gunowners could get additional gun stamps to pay for better weapons. Since nobody should have an inferior education, shooting classes would be available at no cost that would teach the historical and ethnic values of gunownership. 7. Housing anti-discrimination laws would be enforced against hoplophobic landlords. 8. Stores which didn't allow gunowners to walk in with their sidearms would be sued for discrimination. Local newspapers and religious groups would call for boycotts. Anyone opposed to discrimination would engage in sit-down strikes against the offending establishment. 9. The BATF would become the BAT, to avoid being dissolved altogether in light of their blatant persecution of minorities. 10. Newspapers would report on gun shows in the same manner as they cover other ethnic festivals. 11. If the price of ammunition rose 20%, Dianne Feinstein would threaten to investigate those who were "gouging" a protected and culturally valuable group. 12. Gunsmithing would be part of ethnic heritage classes. 13. Children of gunowners would be initiated at an early age into not only the safe use of guns, but would be instilled with a sense of pride stemming from their family's heritage. 14. High schools would hold shooting classes and matches to encourage the gunowning students to express themselves and fulfill their potential. 15. Young children of gunowners would go to "Head Start" classes, where they would be taught to shoot at an early age. 16. "Special-education" teachers would be present in schools to help less adept gunowning children improve their shooting skills. 17. Schools would then require non-owning classmates to attend shooting competitions so that they could learn to respect other students' "uniqueness" and "diversity." 18. Large numbers of "Old Gunowner's Homes" would be set up. Wheelchair accessible shooting booths would be an integral part of the facilities. 19. Congress would pass a resolution declaring July 4 "National Gunowner Appreciation Day." 20. Non-gunowners would be encouraged to shoot and to teach their children to shoot so that they could fully appreciate the gunowner's experience. 21. There'd be organizations like MASH: Mothers Against Stupid Hoplophobes (instead of HCI). MASH would conduct a campaign of public education aimed at promoting gun ownership among non-gunowners, helping them overcome their fears about self-defense and personal sovereignty. Organizations like HCI would be mentioned in the same breath as the Klan. 22. Television commercials for airlines would picture happy gunowners getting on board with their sidearms. 23. TV stations would run commercials from the Amnesty International featuring prisoners in totalitarian countries who were thrown in prison for owning a gun. AI would encourage people to write en masse to officials in that country complaining about the grossly unfair treatment. 24. Environmentalists wouldn't say anything about gunsmoke, for fear of being labeled discriminatory, which of course would be terribly politically incorrect. 25. The INS would have to give foreign gunowners preference for immigration. Foreign gunowners who were in the country illegally would be given citizenship under special programs. 26. Charged with brutal discrimination, Chuck Schumer would finally have to admit that his political philosophy is closest to that of Dr. Mengele. He would then be voted out of the Senate by horrified constituents. Hillary Clinton would do an about-face and apologize for all of the ill treatment endured by gunowners under her husband's administration. She would then be filmed entering a gun store and purchasing a nice little number from a manufacturer that hasn't caved into the federal government. 27. Public clinics would be established for treating trigger-finger calluses and kickback trauma. 28. Every June, there would be a "Gunowner Pride Day" march in San Francisco, and friends and relatives of gunowners would "come out" to show support. 29. The President would sign an executive order designating April as "Gun History Month." Public and school events would be held to commemorate all the heroic deeds of gunowners. Pancake breakfasts would be held by church and community organizations to honor long-time gunowners. 30. Fashion magazines would review the latest in holster styles, and fashion designers would color coordinate holsters with evening wear. Parisian shows would present the most outrageous styles on stick-thin models, and Gucci would sell a $6,000 holster that even non-gunowners would buy as a status symbol. 31. 60 Minutes would run an expose about how dry-cleaners charge more for cleaning gunpowder stains than for other kinds of stains. 32. Equal opportunity employers would hire M/F/H/G. They would set a quota whereby at least 45% of their employees were gunowners and, to increase workplace safety, all employees would be encouraged to bring their guns to work. The "100 Best Employers" would all have ranges on their campuses that employees could use for free during breaks and after work. 33. Colleges would all set up student gun clubs, which would receive protected status under the college's anti-discrimination policy. Any colleges refusing to do so would be denied federal funds under Title IX. 34. Hundreds of gunowner-owned and operated radio stations would spring up around the country, offering appropriate programming. The FCC would actively facilitate and promote such minority ownership. 35. One night a week would be dedicated by both the FOX and UPN networks to shows catering to gunowners. Commercial time would cost more due to the audience size and relatively high affluence. Taurus would promote its titanium handgun, Browning would hawk the merits of BARs, and Federal would try to persuade people to spend big bucks on their ammunition. 36. Gunowner movies would become part of the pop culture. "The Rifleman" and "Paladin" would be shown on TNT every three months. Academy awards would go to "A Blazin' in the Sun"--a story about the travails of range practice in Texas during the month of August. 37. Jane Fonda would star in a weepy, sensitive movie about a gunowner who experienced discrimination from her hoplophobic neighbors, but through strength of character, managed to rise above it, and in the meantime convince her neighbors to become gunowners as well. 38. The Oakland, California, school board would vote to teach hoplophonics as part of the curriculum. 39. Congress would pass a law giving gun stores the same legal protection against "hate crime" that churches have. 40. Newspapers would report assemblies by anti-gunowner groups in the 9th page of the third section, next to articles about KKK gatherings. 41. City governments would establish programs like "Midnight Target Practice" to keep wayward youth off the street. 42. Charitable organizations would set up centers with attached indoor ranges for homeless and/or veteran gunowners. Each winter, newspapers would run stories about how there are too few guns at the facilities for the desperate gunowners wanting to get in from the cold. 43. People who are opposed to discrimination would applaud whenever a city elected a gunowning mayor. 44. Bob Dylan would write protest songs about the hardships of gunowners. 45. Preachers would lead crowds of assault weapons owners on a civil liberties march from Los Angeles to San Francisco. Janet Reno would feel compelled to call out the National Guard to protect the marchers from frightened hoplophobes. 46. Large sums of money would be awarded to researchers studying mixed marriages between gunowners and non-gunowners. Even more money would be awarded to programs that promise that their children would be proud of their gunowning parent's heritage. 47. Al Gore would claim that although he was once anti-gunowner 20 years ago, he has changed his mind and is now firmly in the gunowner camp. 48. Lisa Simpson would sympathize with the plight of the "oppressed minority" and buy a spiffy AK Shorty to show solidarity. She would give an appropriately long and boring (to her brother Bart, anyway) speech about why it's the ethically right thing to do. 49. President Clinton would "feel your pain" and propose hundreds of billions of tax dollars be used in programs to end discrimination against gunowners once and for all. 50. GOA, SAS and JPFO representatives would be invited to White House dinners as often as the NAACP officials. 51. Banks, in an effort to avoid charges of "redlining," would set aside significant percentages of loans just for gunowners hoping to buy or upgrade their guns. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 00 23:38:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: NEWS - UK gun law failure (fwd) On May 31, Bob Mueller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Bob Mueller Legalize Freedom RKBA! From: SSAA To: Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: NEWS - UK gun law failure > World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting - Mailing list > _________________________________________________ > > Four Years After the Dunblane Massacre, Britain's Tighter Gun Laws Have > Failed Completely. > > Punch (UK) > 16 May, 2000 > By Peter Woolrich > > Britain's gun control laws, introduced after the Dunblane massacre in > 1996, have proven to be a disaster. There are now an estimated three > million illegal firearms in the UK, perhaps double the number of four > years ago, and the only effect the knee-jerk political reaction that led > to the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 has had is to shut down legitimate > gun clubs. > > Fears that Britain is on the way to adopting a US-style gun culture are > now a reality "We look to Los Angeles for the language we use," > Morrissey once sang, but it was never envisaged that "drive-by shooting" > and "Big Mac" (the Mac 10 sub-machine gun, which fires 20 rounds a > second) would become as much a part of the vocabulary of street-wise > teenagers in Merseyside, Glasgow and London as hamburger and fries. > > Some believe the three million figure, collated by Home Affairs > Committee researchers working on a recent parliamentary report into the > gun trade. > > Either way, vast stockpiles of weapons have fuelled a spate of shootings > in Britain's cities, including Manchester where a 17-year-old was > recently killed. > > The new research suggests that in some areas a third of young criminals, > classed as those aged 15 to 25 with convictions, own or have access to > guns ranging from Beretta sub-machine guns to Luger pistols, which > change hands on street corners and in pubs for as little as £150. > > "There is a move from the pistol and shotgun to automatic weapons," says > Detective Superintendent Keith Hudson of the National Crime Squad. "We > are recovering weapons that are relatively new - and sometimes still in > their boxes - from eastern European countries." In London there were > more than 20 fatal shootings last year allegedly linked with the > Yardies, gangsters who have their roots in Jamaica, compared with nine > killings in 1998. In one, Andy Balfour, 32, was shot eight times with a > Mac 10, and last summer BBC hip-hop disc jockey Tim Westwood was shot by > a man on a motorbike who opened fire as he drove home from a gig in > Kennington, south London. > > Last month, Gabriel Egharevba, 17, was also shot by a man on a > motorcycle in > Longsight, Manchester, the eighth fatal shooting in the city in seven > months. The previous year, two teenagers aged 14 and 17 were gunned down > inthe same area by a gang with automatic machine guns. > > Police say that modern weapons are fast becoming fashion accessories, > along with trainers and jewellery, among young drug dealers protecting > themselves and their territory. Unarmed officers now find themselves > being confronted by youngsters on mountain bikes brandishing automatic > guns. > > In Birmingham there have been about 100 crimes a month involving > firearms since last March, compared with 88 a month in the year ending > April 1998. > > Two men were shot dead in the city in separate incidents at Christmas. > > The government declared an amnesty on guns after Thomas Hamilton shot > dead > 16 children and a teacher in Dunblane, resulting in 162,000 weapons > being handed in, but this has failed to make even a dent in the > underworld's supply of pistols and revolvers. A steady flow continues > to come in from former Eastern bloc countries, but criminals have now > found an even cheaper and safer source of weaponry. > > "Factories" up and down the country are churning out decommissioned > guns, often stolen from private collectors and sold at trade fairs and > through the classified ads of specialist magazines, that have been > reactivated by re-boring the barrels and replacing the firing pin. > > Another growing source of illegal guns are "cloning" or "off-ticket > sale" dealers, who operate in a similar way to car ringers. Stolen > firearms disappear by being given the identity of an older > decommissioned weapon, details of which don't have to be recorded under > present laws. Last year, ex-Special Constable Tony Mitchell was jailed > for eight years for supplying criminals with hundreds of guns - he > specialised in Mac 10s at L1,100 apiece. He used his engineering skills > to convert the guns from > deactivated products bought via mail order catalogues. One was traced to > a 1997 > street murder in Brixton and another shooting of a police officer by a > youth in > Manchester's Moss Side. In all, police linked guns supplied by Mitchell > to > 130 crime scenes. > > As an indication of how Mitchell and other dealers feel they can operate > with impunity in Britain, he continued his activities even after a > police raid that saw him arrested and released when no guns were found. > > Detective Constable Cliff Purvis of the National Crime Squad said: "Some > of the weapons which bore Mitchell's 'signature' mark have been used in > killings and to fire at police. > > "I'm sure he was one of the major contributors to illegal firearms in > this country He was a big fish. There's no question of that." A big fish > or not, Mitchell's shoes were very quickly filled in what is thought to > be a multi-million pound black market industry. Opponents of the handgun > ban, introduced after Dunblane, claim it has failed to cut gun crime > because of the multiple sources of weapons available to criminals. > > Home Office figures soon to be released will show that, overall, armed > crime rose 10 per cent in 1998. There were 13,671 armed offences > compared with 12,410 the previous year. Firearms experts have long > called for more research to assess the accurate flow of illegal weapons > and, although attempts are being made by the Home Affairs Committee, it > remains to be seen if the government will act upon its recommendations. > It is a relatively simple measure to clamp down on identifiable gun > clubs and collectors, but another to penetrate the underworld. > > Bill Harriman, a member of the Firearms Consultative Committee and a > spokesman for the British Association for Shooting and Conservation, > says that current legislation focuses on law-abiding citizens who belong > to gun clubs. "It should," he says, "have been directed at illegally > held firearms." Even though pistols were banned under the Dunblane > regulations, they are still the weapon of choice for armed criminals and > were used in 1,854 of the 3,029 armed robberies in England and Wales in > 1997. > > The government had plenty of evidence at its disposal to realise that > simply > banning certain types of weapons is ineffective. For example, > fully-automatics have been prohibited since 1937 but it has not stopped > criminals using them. > > Harrirnan believes that, far from being discouraged from using guns, > criminals, as well as people with no criminal record, are becoming more > trigger-happy. > > "Firearms are now being used to settle minor disputes," he comments. > > "There's an argument in the pub and it's settled in the car park with a > bullet, or someone keeps a pistol in the glove compartment of his car > and uses it in a fit of road rage. > > "The Dunblane legislation should have been directed at stopping this > attitude and taking handguns out of the grasp of, criminals. If the L95 > million paid in compensation to former pistol owners had been used to > target armed robbers, something fundamental could have been done to end > gun culture." Harriman's view is supported by a large number of police > officers who privately say that the 1997 legislation is a nonsense, but > are afraid to speak publicly for fear of offending their political > masters. One exception is Superintendent Nigel Sutcliffe of West > Yorkshire, who says in a submission put before the Home Affairs > Committee: "It is clear that the > bans introduced in the Firearms (Amendment) Act in respect of handguns > have > not worked, in that for the first six months of 1999, 59 handguns have > been used > in West Yorkshire. > > "Clearly, these handguns could not be lawfully possessed and, therefore, > must have been illegally imported into the country or already be in the > unlawful possession of someone. > > "These facts tend to support those shooting organisations who were > opposing > the ban of handguns... in that handguns in the lawful possession of > these involved target shooting were rarely used in criminal activity." > However, the gun used at Dunblane was legally held by Hamilton, a gun > club member. > > As well as eastern Europe, America is also a foreign source of illegal > weapons. > > British security services recently revealed that weapons bought at > Florida gun shows and posted to the UK had been intercepted in north > London and Manchester. > > MI6 has no idea how many packages have already got through, but are > aware > of larger consignments being brought across the Atlantic by private > yachts and > dropped into the sea off the Kent coast. The bundles are fitted ith > remote-controlled flotation tanks and beacons, the signals from which > can be picked up by global positioning systems. > > One effect the handgun ban does seem to have had is to lead to a > shortage of > ammunition, which means that the illegal armouries make even more money > by > supplying that as well. > > Perversely, the law actually assists criminals in building their own > ammunition because a loophole does not make it an offence to own or even > to have the component parts sent through the post. Anyone can buy > primers, cases, propellant and bullets (the missile) without any form of > certification. The gun only needs to be registered once the pieces are > put together to form a whole. > > In written evidence to the Home Affairs Committee the Police Federation > has > pointed out the "laxity" of the Dunblane legislation in not dealing with > ammunition, as well as a number of other "inconsistencies". > > It says: "The time is now right for parliament to address the entire > issue and produce a completely new Firearms Act. Any lesser step will be > insufficient." The Police Federation is demanding that anomalies such as > someone being legally permitted to own a shotgun while being deemed > unfit to possess a firearm, as happened at Cardiff Crown Court in April > last year, must be changed. > > It's a question of whether the government has the bottle to enact > something > more effective than the cosmetic exercise it undertook last time. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:34:50 -0400 From: "Patrick J. Fields" Subject: Re: Who Elected Him? (fwd) Lew, I'm with you 110%. We're saddled with a national socialist government that is the legacy of Herr Roosevelt (pronounced ruse-a veldt or literally steal a land) who, along with most 'progressive leaders' of the early thirties, glorified Hitler's German miracle' until Der Furer gave them all the finger and demanded world subjugation to his 'master race'. The 'Clintonista Regime' and the 'Family Bush Aristocracy' are just salt and pepper in the same pot of stew. Either condiment stings like hell when applied to the gaping wound that's been slashed into our poor bleeding Constitution by the traitors in Congress who've been swearing allegiance to the string of thieving, lying, ruthless excuses for presidents occupying the White House since 1933. Republicrats! One as terribly bad as the other. America needs a clean sweep! Take a broom to the polls this Fall and vote for alternative candidates wherever they're permitted on the ballot and leave the rest untouched lest you become infected with their withering disease. You're correct Lew -- every scoop of dirt they heap on our Constitution, the easier I find it is to convert the fence sitters. Nixon called them the 'silent majority'. Nearly 60% of The People are so disgusted they've thrown up their hands. Just a little more outrageous 'administrative initiative' and they'll be ready to raise up their arms -- but not in surrender as the politicians smugly fool themselves into believing. Nearly every cop I've talked to are ready and every enlisted man as well. Are 'they' ever going to be shocked then the crap finally hits the fan (I suspect, some actually will be!). Pat Fields Philadelphia, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, uSA packfields@worldnet.att.net All Constitutional Rights Reserved, Without Prejudice, UCC 1-207 PS: We are free, ONLY if We choose to be. pps: The original 13th Amendment is Law - -----Original Message----- From: Lew Glendenning To: roc@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 8:38 AM Subject: RE: Who Elected Him? (fwd) > >This is the same, tired "best-of-two-evils" argument. > >Until there is a consistent 5% vote for Freedom, neither party has any >reason to change. When the Libertarians, for instance, have the balance of >victory in any given race, the two major-party candidates will have the >incentive to try to attract these votes. They can't do it by being "big >gov" candidates. > >The Socialists never had more than 5% of the national vote. They never >elected more than 20 members of Congress. Republicans are now more >socialistic than the Socialists ever were. > >Every year, people hold their nose and vote for the least-bad major party >candidates. Every year, we find we have lost more freedom, Constitutional >gov is further devalued, fewer people understand our history, more think the >current situation is 'normal'. > >Those trends are what is important -- having Al Gore as president will speed >up these trends, Bush will slow them down. The trends will continue. > >There is a positive side: radicals produce radicals. Clinton sold more >guns than anyone since Hitler because of his radical anti-gun stance. An >increasing minority of people are concerned about the state of >Constitutional government because of his blatant criminality. Gore will >increase these trends faster than Bush. > >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:57 PM >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Who Elected Him? (fwd) >> >> >> On May 29, Roger W. Ek wrote: >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows >> --------------------] >> >> >Well Susan....the women put Clinton in and kept him there. I feel inulted >> >and outraged about that. No amount of proof of his raping and >> abusing women, >> >his treason, infidelity, etc. could wake up the liberal NOW >> crowd and vast >> >majority of women to vote against that slime bag. If the truth >> offends you, >> >that's really tough!! >> >> Clinton was elected by 24% of America's eligible voters - twice! >> That's all, just 24%. How is this possible? Over half of our eligible >> voters just stayed home. We didn't have much of a choice. Clinton and >> Bush both favored NAFTA, GATT, MAI, IMF, the World Bank, the Federal >> Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red China, bigger government, higher >> taxes and less freedom. >> >> Despite the limited choice we had, we did have the opportunity to >> throw the bum out and let that chance go. Our choices this year are >> very similar. Gore and Bush both favor (guess what) NAFTA, GATT, MAI, >> IMF, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red >> China, bigger government, higher taxes and less freedom. >> >> They seem to be alike, but there are subtle differences. Gore would >> try to take all our guns. Bush would only try to take some. Gore >> would try to create wilderness and drive people off their land. Bush >> only wants "limited" increases government land. >> >> The fringe candidates will attract only a few percentage points. No >> fringe candidate will carry even one state. Al Gore will get that >> same dedicated 24% of America's vote that Clinton did. If we don't >> swallow the bitter medicine and get out and vote for Bush, Gore will >> be the next president. After 8 years of Gore Hillary will be in for 8 >> years and by then Chelsea will be old enough. Think about it friends. >> >> >> ======================================================================== >> ///, //// >> \ /, / >./ For those that have >> fought for it, >> \ /, _/ /. Freedom has a flavor >> the protected >> \_ /_/ /. will never know. >> \__/_ < >> /<<< \_\_ Roger W. Ek >> /,)^>>_._ \ >> (/ \\ /\\\ Candidate for Maine >> Senate, District 3 >> // ```` >> ENOUGH ((` is ENOUGH mequest@telplus.net >> http://www.glprl.org/TOG/ >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message >> ------------------------] >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ---------- >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** >> RKBA! >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- >> ---------- >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no >> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his >> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a >> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | >> sword.--Jesus Christ >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- >> ---------- >> >> Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #349 *************************