From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #370 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, July 29 2000 Volume 02 : Number 370 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 00 18:15:59 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: victim of the gun laws in Hawaii (fwd) On Jul 26, Swftl@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hi CDMichel@aol.com, >Chuck Michel (310) 548-0410: I am very interested in your pursuit of justice for gun owners who have been victims of any government action to take their guns. I am such a victim, and last week I was found guilty of failure to register. I could not get an attorney in Hawaii to assist me because apparently all of them are pro-guncontrol. Actually I got one lawyer named Mike Ostendorp who promised me he would make complaints in federal court for me but that I would have to pay him up front $2,000 cash.....he was sounding so good I did the unthinkable and borrowed it on my credit card which I only use for an ID to rent car on the rare travel I do to Honolulu from Molokai. He did not file any such thing, but only argued in District court that I qualify for a public defender, which I was then assigned. He then said he did not want me for a client anymore because he knows I can't pay him, and that was that. Anyway, the Hawaii law is =A7134, and it required me to first get a permit = to acquire the gun, and then within 5-days of taking possession I have to provide all the pertinent info on make model serial number calibur, etc for the purpose of registration. I did that in person, and so did the gun store where I bought it by fax as they do for every gun purchase. The prosecutor stipulated to that fact. But I was still convicted because I did not bang on the police station door and find out what else needs to be done to register. I thought it was all done since police don't provide any forms for me to fill out and they do all the paperwork based on the info provided, and they probably just mail the registration to me since I already had the permit to acquire in my possession. When they did a weapons check on me they found that I had two guns registered to me (the permit to acquire) but their gun registration division put out an alert for late registration on me and they took my guns and charged me as a criminal for not registering. This was last November 1999. Last week the court ordered my guns returned, but also found me guilty of failing to register and fined me $200 and put me on probation for 6-months. The prosecutor also wanted me in jail for 2-days and prohibit possession for 6-months but the judge did not go with that. Until now, I have no criminal record, I am 55 years old. Now I am a criminal they say. I can't stand to live like this, with this injustice and conviction against me. But I only have 12-days more before the end of the 30-days appeal window closes. All the lawyers say the same thing, you are convicted, you are not in jail, you got your guns back, there is no basis for appeal, don't worry about it. I disagree and I want to be acquited so my record is clean and not subject to probation invasions of my home and business. I did not do anything wrong, and the prosecutor agree that I had provided the required information on time. I don't control the paperwork the police do, so they are at fault for not doing the registration paperwork and not notifying me,but nobody agrees with me in Hawaii. They say if you blame the police, it will just go harder against you. I believe the 2nd Amendment Right cannot be regulated....I have since learned due to this incident and my studies of law and Bill of Rights, and dicta, and scholars on 2nd Am. Not only did I act in good faith pursuant to existing though un-Constitutional Hawaii gun laws, but I never should have been subjected to the un-Constitutional permit and registration in the first place....AND CERTAINTLY MY GUNS SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM ME WHEN I HAD COMMITTED NO CRIME USING GUNS! I hope you can help me get this cleared up. Can you come to Hawaii? Or, do you have a Hawaii connection who will help me? Any suggestions of how I might proceed pro se? (I have filed a Motion for new trial, but without a memorandum because I don't have an expensive transcript; and I am contemplating a Motion for Appeal, but again need transcript; and I am thinking of a Motion to vacate the sentence with a memorandum explaining the mitigating factors etc, but all the lawyers here just roll their eyes and brush me off. I contacted 2nd Am Foundation, but they can not help me specifically and they have the Munroe case in federal appeal now so I am watching that. I hope you can help me out or refer me to someone who can. Thanks, and Aloha George Peabody HC01 Box 770 KKai Molokai, HI 96748 1-808-558-8253 molokaiman@flex.com ps: If nothing else, please keep me informed about the progress of your good work there. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 00 17:22:31 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Dumbing Us Down On Purpose (fwd) On Jul 28, Swftl@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA EDITORS: A SHORTER VERSION, AT 1,200 WORDS, ALSO MOVES FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED AUG. 4, 2000 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Could they really have done it on purpose? In a mere three centuries, America has written some of the most glowing chapters in the long history of man's struggle for freedom. So how did we become -- in the space of only a few generations -- a nation of pathetic bed-wetters, mewling "Oh, please don't trust me and my neighbor to save for our own retirements; we might blow it" -- "Oh, please don't trust me and my neighbor to own military-style weapons; we'd probably shoot each other." John Taylor Gatto, a former New York state (public) Teacher of the Year, thinks he's found the answer: the government schools. Gatto's thesis is one of those "big ideas" that takes a little time to wrap the mind around. The public schools cannot be reformed because they're not failing, he argues. They're succeeding beyond all expectations at precisely what they're supposed to be -- not only a huge make-work jobs program, but also the incubators of a dependent class of conscienceless sociopaths, their emotional development purposely stunted, a generation (by now two or three) with little knowledge of "the narrative of American history connecting the arguments of the founding fathers to historical events, defining what makes Americans different from others besides wealth." Oblivious to that heritage, our young people instead sulk about, whining for the modern Morlocks of our welfare/police state to do a better job feeding them and keeping them entertained. Gatto started to develop this thesis in his slim but estimable 1992 volume "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling." Now he's returned with a massive and far better-developed follow-up, the 400-page "Underground History of American Education," subtitled "A Schoolteacher's Intimate Investigation Into the Problem of Modern Schooling" ($34 postpaid, Oxford Village Press, 725 McDonough Road, Oxford, N.Y. 13830.) Gatto's historical research tells him none of this is an accident -- public school pioneers like Horace Mann found the regimented system they were looking for when they visited Prussia in the 1840s, importing wholesale a scheme to tame and regiment what they saw as America's dangerously anarchist new immigrant working class, training the young of this underclass to report to a central government facility as soon as they were old enough to use the latrine, there to be trained to all hold identical shallow, memorized opinions and to march around to the sound of bells. Yes, some basic literacy and numeracy would be necessary for them to fill their intended roles in the army and in the factories ... but not too much, and certainly not the kind of critical and analytic skills which might lead them to question their new bosses. "We want one class to have a liberal education," Gatto finds Woodrow Wilson telling a group of businessmen shortly before the First World War. "We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forgo the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks." Gatto challenges the whole underlying notion that the kind of academic disciplines taught in our schools are so complicated that they have to be divvied up into small mouth-sized bits and doled out over a period of years on a careful scientific schedule arranged by highly-trained experts. Teachers should be adults over 40, Gatto argues, "people who've proven themselves at life by bearing its pain like free spirits. ... No one who hasn't known grief, challenge, success, failure, or sadness should be allowed anywhere near kids. ... "Have you noticed nobody talks to children in schools? I mean (start ital)nobody(end ital). All verbal exchanges in school are instrumental. Person-to-person stuff is contrary to policy. That's why popular teachers are disliked or fired. They (start ital)talk(end ital) to kids. It's unacceptable." Americans are now trained to believe that no child is capable of assuming any responsibility till he or she is 18 or 21 -- and that even adults need a huge and permanent government "safety net" to protect them from their own childlike incompetence. Yet Gatto reminds us of a young American who left school at an early age because he was judged "feeble-minded." Just before turning 12 he talked his mother into letting him go to work full time as an apprentice on the railroad, "a permission she gave which would put her in jail right now," in Gatto's phrase. Claiming some old type from a printer who was about to throw it away, the young lad begged a corner in the baggage car in which to set up a little four-page newspaper about the lives of the passengers and what could be seen from the train's window. At age 12 he had 500 subscribers, earning more than his former schoolteachers. "When the Civil War broke out, the newspaper become a goldmine. ... He sold the war to crowds at the various stops. 'The Grand Trunk Herald' sold as many as 1,000 extra copies after a battle," amassing the young man a handsome stake for his next venture. If he tried that at age 12 today, everyone involved would be arrested and put on trial for exploitation of "child labor" ... and we would likely never have heard of the young man who got the early start in question, Thomas Edison. # # # How does this giant jobs program known as "public schooling" work? Gatto tells the pathetic story of little Benson, Vermont, where citizens were happy with the single school that served their 137 schoolchildren. But the state bureaucracy wasn't happy. Oh no. The state condemned the old school for lack of wheelchair ramps "and other features nobody ever considered an essential part of education before." A massively expensive new school was mandated, and into this new school the education bureaucracy piled a new non-teaching superintend, a new non-teaching assistant superintendent, a new non-teaching principal, a new non-teaching assistant principal, a new full-time nurse, a new full-time guidance counselor, a new full-time librarian, 11 full-time teachers where eight would have sufficed - -- in all, a new cadre of poobahs and potentates costing an additional $250,000 per year -- or $2,000 per kid. Property taxes in the little town went up 40 percent in one year, "quite a shock to local homeowners just hanging on by their fingernails." In nearby Walden, a town happily getting along with four 19th-century one-room schoolhouses for its 120 kids -- with four teachers and (start ital)no(end ital) administrators -- Gatto visited and found the story was the same. Building condemned, and then the administrators started to arrive, like clowns piling out of that little car at the circus. "Is there a soul who believes Benson's kids are better served in their new school with its mercenary army than Walden's 120 were in four rooms with four teachers?" Gatto asks. "What happened at Benson -- the use of forced schooling to impose career ladders of unnecessary work on a poor community -- has happened all over North America. School is a jobs project for a large class of people it would be difficult to find employment for otherwise. Forcible redistribution of income to others to provide work for pedagogues and for a support staff larger than the actual teaching corps is a pyramid scheme run at the expense of the children. The more 'make-work' has to be found for school employees, the worse for kids because their own enterprise is stifled by constant professional tinkering in order to justify this employment." Public schooling hasn't even improved literacy, Gatto demonstrates -- it's considerably eroded it. "By 1840" (more than a decade before the opening of the first tax-funded government schools on the modern model, in Massachusetts) "the incidence of complex literacy in the United States was between 93 and 100 percent. ... In Connecticut only one citizen out of every 579 was illiterate and you probably don't want to know, not really, what people in those days considered literate; it's too embarrassing. Popular novels of the period give a clue: 'Last of the Mohicans,' published in 1818, sold so well a contemporary equivalent would have to move 10 million copies to match it. If you pick up an uncut version you find yourself in a dense thicket of philosophy, history, culture, politics, geography, astute analysis of human motives and actions, all conveyed in data-rich periodic sentences so formidable only a determined and well-educated reader can handle it nowadays. Yet in 1818 we were a small-farm nation without colleges or universities to speak of. Could those simple folk have had more complex minds than our own? "By 1940 the literacy figure for all states stood at 96 percent for whites. 80 percent for blacks. Notice for all the disadvantages blacks labored under, four of five were still literate. Six decades later, at the end of the 20th century, the National Adult Literacy Survey and the National Assessment of Educational Progress say 40 percent of blacks and 17 percent of whites can't read at all. Put another way, black illiteracy doubled, white illiteracy quadrupled," despite the fact that "we spend three or four times as much real money on schooling as we did 60 years ago." And Mr. Gatto knows why. # # # "During World War Two, American public schools massively converted to non-phonetic ways of teaching reading," Gatto explains. "According to the justice department, 80 percent of the incarcerated (start ital)violent(end ital) criminal population is illiterate or nearly so (as are 67 percent of all criminals locked up.) There seems to be a direct connection between the humiliation poor readers experience and the life of angry criminals. As reading ability plummeted in America after World War Two, crime soared, so did out-of-wedlock births, which doubled in the 1950s and doubled again in the '60s when bizarre violence for the first time became commonplace in daily life. "When literacy was first abandoned as a primary goal by schools, white people were in a better position than black people because they inherited a 300-year-old American tradition of learning to read at home by matching spoken sounds with letters, thus home assistance was able to correct the deficiencies of dumbed-down schools for whites. But black people had been forbidden to learn to read during slavery, and as late as 1930 only averaged three to four years of schooling, so they were helpless when teachers suddenly stopped teaching children to read; they had no fall-back position." In 1882, Gatto reminds us, fifth graders read in their "Appleton School Reader" the original prose of such authors as William Shakespeare, Henry Thoreau, George Washington, Sir Walter Scott, Mark Twain, Benjamin Franklin, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Daniel Webster, Lewis Carroll, Thomas Jefferson, and Ralph Waldo Emerson. In 1995, a student teacher of fifth graders in Minneapolis wrote to the local newspaper: "I was told children are not to be expected to spell the following words correctly: back, big, call, came, can, day, did, dog, down, get, good, if, in, is, it, have, he, home, like, little, man, morning, mother, my, night, off, out, over, people, play, ran, said, saw, she, some, soon, their, them, there, time, two, too, up, us, very, water, we, went, where, when, will, would, etc. Is this nuts?" Again, all this was no accident. Gatto finds the 1888 "Report of the Senate Committee on Education" asserting "We believe that education is one of the principal causes of discontent of late years manifesting itself among the laboring classes. ..." Within a few generations, working from such goals as "Destruction of the narrative of American history connecting the arguments of the founding fathers to historical events ..."; "radical dilution of the academic content of formal curriculum which familiarized students with serious literature, philosophy, theology, etc. -- having the effect of curtailing any serious inquiries into economics, politics or religion"; "enlargement of the school day and year to blot up outside opportunities to acquire useful knowledge leading to independent livelihoods ..."; and "relentless low-level hostility against religious interpretations of meaning," the public schools had taken care of (start ital)that(end ital). Mr. Gatto's book rambles. It took him an entire career to reach these counterintuitive conclusions ("They can't have done it all (start ital)on purpose(end ital)") and it shows. Dipping into these pages is like allowing a still-hearty old man to take you on a walk through his home town, pointing out where the old barns used to stand. It swings from historical analysis to personal anecdote and reminiscence. The furthest thing from the kind of forbidding "rigorous" tomes generated by those seeking Ph.Ds in education, it invites the interested reader to sink down into it like a comfortable easy chair, to be stunned and amazed in turn by a 150-year history of the fully conscious and willful campaign to turn all but the offspring of the big banking and corporate families who would attend Hotchkiss, Choate, Kent and Groton (the last three endowed by the Mellons, the DuPonts, and J.P Morgan -- the first by the machine gun widow) into -- well, malleable morons. Mr. Gatto's books -- he promises his next will be "How to Get an Education in Spite of School" are a wonder and a delight. It's only too bad they're true. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $24.95 postpaid by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." -- Eugene V. Debs (1855-1926) "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 14:21:35 -0700 From: "Kenneth Mitchell" Subject: Opinion Journal Hi, All. The Wall Street Journal has inaugurated a new web site devoted to their op/ed and commentary pieces. It is http://www.opinionjournal.com. It's free, and promises to be filled with all sorts of conservative/libertarian editorial and opinion articles. Remember, the WSJ is one of the few major papers in the country to be on the right (both "Right" and "correct") side of the Clinton impeachment AND gun control debates. Check it out. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) - --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken - --------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 00 15:16:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Commie Lesson (fwd) On Jul 29, Bard wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articlei d=352 The Communist Manifesto in Practice in America The Commie Lesson by Peter Jon Simpson (as transcribed from a tape available below article) I ACTUALLY AM A VISITOR FROM ANOTHER PLANET. This is not too hard to believe, as my critics, who are many, will tell you without blushing that I am definitely something from another planet. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, I am told that you people spend somewhere approaching a quarter Trillion dollars a year (that's 250 Billion with a "B" dollars per year) on a military establishment. And I was in the restaurant here, being from outer space, I was talking to this fellow, who told me he was a Christian, and he apparently thought this was great. So I asked him, "why do you spend all this money?" And he scratched his head, and said "Well gee, now that the Soviet Union is all dissolved, I don' t know." I said "well, why did you used to spend a quarter Trillion dollars a year on your military establishment?" And he said "Oh! We wanted to defend ourselves from communism!" And I asked "what is communism?" And he said "Communism is a foreign and alien ideology that threatens by military force to impose itself over our objection and against our will." I thought that was kind of interesting, and I told him that I know a little something about communism, and I asked him if he knew what communism was and he said, "well, no". And I asked him if he had been trained in the public schools, and he said "yes." So I walked him through the communist manifesto, as I will you now. The communist manifesto was created by a fellow named Moses Mordecai Levi. You Americans out here know him a Karl Marx, he was the son of a rabbi, and I asked why this guy went by an alias? The discussion fairly quickly elevated to the status level of Battle-Stations Missile: I said, "The first plank of the communist manifesto is: Abolition of all property and land ownership and the application of all rents for public purposes." And I asked this Christian, "Do you own your own home?" He said "Yep." I said, "What happens if you stop paying the property tax? He said "The sheriff will sell it." I said, "I am woefully confused, of course, I am from another planet. How can the sheriff sell what you own?" He was sorrowfully silent. So I said "isn't it a fact that you hold title and that you are not an "allod" on the land and isn't your problem actually that you have an equity position in real property and the state wherein you live owns the land and that's why they can move your butt off of it when you don't pay their rent?" And as he stared into the ceiling, I said "if you pay property tax you practice the first plank of the communist manifesto. On the spaceship down here I was reading this big thick book called the Bible, the Bible you Christians use, and I understand that you are in violation of Leviticus 25:23 if you do that." He looked puzzled... The second plank of the communist manifest is: Heavy progressive income tax. You people don't fill out Illinois state form 1040's here do you, and you don't fill out form 1040's for the federal government do you? Because if you do, you practice the second plank of the communist manifesto and you are in violation of your Bible at Malachi 3:8 and Deuteronomy 4:13. He loosened his tie... I said the third plank of the communist manifesto is: Abolition of all rights of inheritance. I said "How long have you lived in Illinois?" He said "All my life." I said "You don't have any probate courts here, do you? You don't have a legal profession that is wall to wall teaching you to fill out wills instead of create trusts, do you? Because if you know anyone who has been through probate court, or if you have personally been through probate court, you have practiced the third plank of the communist manifesto and you are in violation of Deuteronomy 21:15-17 and Numbers 18:20-24." . He loosened his tie a little more... The fourth plank of the communist manifesto is: Confiscation of property of all immigrants & rebels. "You don't turn on the TV around April 1st in Illinois and see them drag some tax protestor off to jail, do you?" "Annually," was the reply. "Well", I said, "if you participate in that or allow that to happen, or if that has happened to you, that's the fourth plank of the communist manifesto, and it is a violation of Leviticus 26:17 and Proverbs 28:1." His eyes started to glaze over. I looked at him and said the fifth plank of the communist manifesto is: Centralization of credit by the creation of a national bank. I said, "You pay your debts at law, in silver, don't you? You don't discharge your obligations in equity, do you?" He started to squirm. I said "if you rely on this green paper money for your sustenance, if your mind thinks in terms of this green paper when you go to purchase things, you practice the fifth plank of the communist manifesto, and you are in violation of Leviticus 19:35-36, Deuteronomy 25:13-16 and the aforementioned nasty and nefarious Exodus 20:15. Exodus 20:15 reads THOU SHALT NOT STEAL." He started to become uneasy.... I said, the sixth plank of the communist manifesto is: Centralization of the means of communication & transport in the hands of the state. "You don't have ports of entry out here on the Interstate, do you? Your trucks don't have to drive in and out of these scales, do you? You don't drive automobiles with the admiralty flag of the state of Illinois on the back with the yearly rental fee stuck in the middle on a sticker, do you? Because if you do, you practice the sixth plank of the communist manifesto and you are in violation of Deuteronomy 7:2 and Exodus 23:32-33." He started to figit uncomfortably. I said the seventh plank of the communist manifesto is: Government control of factories and the instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing in to cultivation of wastelands and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. I said, "You don't have a Bureau of Land management, do you? You don't live under the administrative circumstance of the Department of Agriculture, do you? And you don't have companion circumstances in the state law along with EPA and a host of other things, because if you allow yourself to live under that system, you practice the seventh plank of the communist manifesto and you are in violation of Leviticus 25:1-7, actually Leviticus 25: 1-10. He closed his eyes. I said the eight plank of the communist manifesto reads: Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. I said, "Do you have a Social Security number?" He as he shook his head up and down sorrowfully, I said "well doesn't that mean that you're a fourteenth Amendment juristic person a merchant in interstate commerce under contract over time for profit and gain in a regulated enterprise and you have waived all your constitutional rights under contract in exchange for privileges, franchises and immunities?" He said "Privileges?" I said "yes, privilege! PRIVATE LAW: Privilege." He put his chin in his solar plexus. I said "If you have a Social Security number, you practice the eighth plank of the communist manifesto, and you are in violation of your Bible at Leviticus 19:13 and Deuteronomy 24:14-15." He became physically agitated. Number nine, I said: A combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries. Gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equitable distribution of population over the country. "You don't have a Federal Emergency Management Association in Illinois, Do you? You don't have FEMA at the state level, do you? Because is you do, you practice the ninth plank of the communist manifesto and you're in violation of Leviticus 25:1-7. By this time he was just plain angry. I finished by quoting the tenth plank of the communist manifesto: Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Conform education with industrial productions. I said "Are you a homeowner?" He said "yeah." I said "you pay the property tax?" He said "Yeah." I said "Do you know where 75% of the property tax goes in this state?" He said "no." I said "It goes to support the public fool ..ahh .. the public school system. I looked at him, I said "You don't tithe your children to the state, do you? You raise them at home the way Yahweh told Moses to tell you to do, don't you?" As he got up and walked away, I said "If you support the public education establishment, you are in violation of Deuteronomy 4:9-10, Deuteronomy 6:1-25 and Deuteronomy 11:19. And you practice the tenth plank of the communist manifesto." And I went and got him and brought him back and sat him down and I said "You know, I am from outer space and one of the reasons they sent me to this planet is that I'm not the brightest firecracker that ever went off in our galaxy. But what I'm trying to figure out is why the hell would you spend 250 Billion "Dollars" a year defending yourselves against something that you willfully and premeditatively do, under the color of law, and practice every second of every minute of every hour of every day all year long? He said, "My God, I never thought about that! What do you think we should do?" I said, "I don' t know. Did the communists ever run a presidential candidate?" He said, "Oh yeah, Gus Hall, the venerable ancient 80 year old president of the communist party used to run every time until the Democrats took over the Congress after WWII." I said to him, "If Gus Hall would have been elected President of the United States, do you think he would have abolished property tax, do you think he would have abolished the income tax, do you think he would have instructed the legal profession to only create trusts for families to hold property in, and that he would have abolished the probate courts? Do you think he would have stopped the incarceration of so-called Tax rebels? Do you think Gus Hall would have closed the federal reserve? Do you think he would have shut down the federal communications commission and allowed you to flip through the dials on your TVs here in Chicago and watch television stations unlicensed by the government? Do you think he would have eliminated all the bureaucracies that control trade, commerce, business, industry and agriculture? Do you think he would have dumped the Social Security Administration and admitted that there was no trust fund, and that the whole thing was just a gigantic chain letter used to alter your citizenship status in the thirties and redistribute your wealth? That Roosevelt, he was a pretty crafty guy, wasn't he?" I said "Do you think Gus Hall would have closed the public school system and sold the public schools back to the families in the neighborhoods wherein they existed?" As I opened up the copy of the Bible the motel clerk told me I could keep for free, my Christian friend got up and left, and I couldn't bring him back. The above is a transcript of a tape by: Peter Jon Simpson Erwin Rommel School of Law c/o P O Box 211 Atwater, Minnesota 56209-0211 320- 857- 2400 2401 fax rommellaw@aol.com http://members.aol.com/rommellaw "The Law is the Weapon the Courtroom the Battlefield the Judge is Your Enemy Your Lawyer is an Enemy Spy" http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articlei d=352 Bard [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 00 15:15:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: BRITAIN PROPOSES LOCKING PEOPLE UP "PROACTIVELY" (fwd) On Jul 29, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY I cannot confirm the veracity of this report, but I pass it on because it IS what we all fear, the logical next step after gun confiscation. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Ruby Fear in Britain They have no guns so they have a lot of crime. EXCERPT: "Prime Minister Tony Blair is now proposing that the government be allowed to confine people proactively, based on fears of their potential dangerousness." NOTE: This is where it's going folks! They already have the above law on the books here under "national emergency", in which case Janet Waco-Massacre Reno will be in charge of rounding up all those right-wing, Christian-Patriot "suspected terrorists". ------------------ article follows: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/commentprint071800c.html Dr. Paul Gallant practices optometry in Wesley Hills, NY. Dr. Joanne Eisen practices dentistry in Old Bethpage, NY. Both are Research Associates at the Independence Institute, where Dave Kopel is Research Director. The furor over the Philadelphia police encounter with a would-be carjacker and cop-killer isn't the only public-relations nightmare facing the city's police department. Two thousand reported sex crimes went "uninvestigated" by Philadelphia police between 1995 and 1997 because of "pressure to keep the department's crime numbers low," reported ABC News on July 11. Earlier this year, the department admitted "misreporting" thousands of sexual assaults during the past decade "to make the city appear safer than it was." Actually, Philadelphia is not the only city to underreport crime in recent years. The 1994 Clinton/Schumer crime bill has resulted in lots of federal dollars for local police departments and also lots of pressure to get crime statistics down so that the federal government can announce the success of its policy of federalizing crime control. But when it comes to fudging crime statistics, even the finest Philadelphia number-rearranger can't compare to our British cousins. During the nineteenth century, and most of the twentieth, Britain enjoyed a well-deserved reputation as an unusually safe and crime-free nation, compared to the United States or continental Europe. No longer. To the great consternation of British authorities concerned about tourism revenue, a June CBS News report proclaimed Great Britain "one of the most violent urban societies in the Western world." Declared Dan Rather: "This summer, thousands of Americans will travel to Britain expecting a civilized island free from crime and ugliness...[But now] the U.K. has a crime problem....worse than ours." A headline in the London Daily Telegraph back on April 1, 1996, said it all: "Crime Figures a Sham, Say Police." The story noted that "pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics," and "the recorded crime level bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed." For example, where a series of homes was burgled, they were regularly recorded as one crime. If a burglar hit 15 or 20 flats, only one crime was added to the statistics. A brand-new report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary charges Britain's 43 police departments with systemic under-classification of crime for example, by recording burglary as "vandalism." The report lays much of the blame on the police's desire to avoid the extra paperwork associated with more serious crimes. Britain's justice officials have also kept crime totals down by being careful about what to count. American homicide data are based on arrests, but British data are based on final dispositions. Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. Another "common practice," according to one retired Scotland Yard senior officer, is "falsifying clear-up rates by gaining false confessions from criminals already in prison." (Britain has far fewer protections against abusive police interrogations than does the United States.) As a result, thousands of crimes in Great Britain have been "solved" by bribing or coercing prisoners to confess to crimes they never committed. Explaining away the disparity between crime reported by victims and the official figures became so difficult that, in April 1998, the British Home Office was forced to change its method of reporting crime, and a somewhat more accurate picture began to emerge. This past January, official street-crime rates in London were more than double the official rate from the year before. So what's a British politician to do when elections coincide with an out-of control crime wave? Calling for "reasonable" gun laws is no longer an option. Handguns have been confiscated, and long guns are very tightly restricted. So anti-gun demagoguery, while still popular, can't carry the whole load. Conversely, the government would not find it acceptable to allow its subjects to possess any type of gun (even a licensed, registered .22 rifle) for home protection. Defensive gun ownership is entirely illegal, and considered an insult to the government, since it implies that the government cannot keep the peace. Thus, in one recent notorious case, an elderly man who had been repeatedly burglarized, and had received no meaningful assistance from the police, shot a pair of career burglars who had broken into the man's home. The man was sentenced to life in prison. The British authorities warn the public incessantly about the dangers of following the American path on gun policy. But the Daily Telegraph (June 29, 2000) points out that "the main reason for a much lower burglary rate in America is householders' propensity to shoot intruders. They do so without fear of being dragged before courts and jailed for life." So what's the government going to do to make voters safer? One solution came from the Home Office in April 1999 in the form of "Anti-Social Behaviour Orders" special court orders intended to deal with people who cannot be proven to have committed a crime, but whom the police want to restrict anyway. Behaviour Orders can, among other things, prohibit a person from visiting a particular street or premises, set a curfew, or lead to a person's eviction from his home. Violation of a Behaviour Order can carry a prison sentence of up to five years. Prime Minister Tony Blair is now proposing that the government be allowed to confine people proactively, based on fears of their potential dangerousness. American anti-gun lobbyists have long argued that if America followed Britain's lead in severely restricting firearms possession and self-defense, then American crime rates would eventually match Britain's. The lobbyists have also argued that if guns were restricted in America, civil liberties in the U.S. would have the same degree of protection that they have in Britain. The lobbyists are absolutely right. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #370 *************************