From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #372 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, August 2 2000 Volume 02 : Number 372 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 00 01:31:59 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FCC Public File Auto-FAQ This "FAQ" is auto-posted once a month via cron triggered script, and may be triggered off by hand from time to time in between if the info is requested by someone, such as when the House recently voted down the AW Ban and the Media threw a hissy fit. The purpose of this FAQ is to inform people what they can do about Media generated lies and misinformation. While the FCC only handles Broadcast Media, (TV and Radio), some of these techniques will work for magazines and newspapers too. If I've missed something, or you find errors, let me know and I'll add/fix it. 1.a. Send letters of complaint to the Station Manager every time it happens with all the time, details, other info, and your complaint(s). 1.b. Send an additional copy for their FCC (Federal Communications Commission) Public file. 1.c. Send an additional copy to the FCC itself, in case they don't put it in their Public file. 2.a. Send a letter of complaint to their Station Owner as per above, with copies as per above (1.b and 1.c). 3. Send copies of their replies to you along with yours to them to their FCC Public file, so that it gets nice and fat, again, with copies to the FCC itself. 4. If you can afford it, send all corespondence by Certified Mail with Return Receipt Requested. Send a copy of the Return Receipt with everything that goes to the FCC itself, so that they will have additional evidence if the Station is cheating on their Public File. 5.a. Go to the Public Library and look up "Standard Rate and Data Services" (SRDS) "Directory of National Advertisers." It is found in many major Libraries (in the business/reference stacks), and lists EVERY current advertiser, who the players are at both the company and advertising agency(s), and the appropriate telephone and fax (and probably E-Mail by now) addresses. If your Library doesn't have it, it can be requested. Otherwise you can watch their commercials for a few days to a week, listing all their advertisers. There are other references that have the addresses for the nation's business headquarters too. look them all up and pass the addresses and phone/FAX numbers etc., around so that everyone can bitch to the sponsors. IF enough people do that, it'll get back to the Station. Tell them if the Station continues their nastiness you'll _consider_ changing to brand(X), (otherwise they'll just write you off as a loss). 5.b. The above, (5.a.), can be a lot easier and less time consuming if you're dealing with a newspaper's or a magazine's ads, as they are right in front of you for the listing. 6. If they put on something good or even just more reasonable, call and compliment them on it, but do _not_ send any kudos to their FCC file, or write to them about it. That way they have to keep it up and hope, as there is nothing good in the file or in writing that they can show the FCC to justify their Station's License. 7. Federal Communications Commission, Complaints and Compliance Division Room 6218, 2025 M Street NW Washington, D.C. 20554 FAX: 202-653-9659 FCC Attn: Edythe Wise - -- An _EFFECTIVE_ | The _only_important_difference_ between Nazi-ism, Fascism, weapon in every | Communism, Communitarianism, Socialism and (Neo-)Liberalism hand = Freedom | is the _spelling_, and that the last group hasn't got the on every side! | Collective brains to figure it out. -- Bill Vance - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 00 09:49:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: MMM's ransack SAS booth in philly (fwd) I think rather that the MMM's need to come under Citizens Arrest, hidden Security/vid cams and all. On Aug 1, Jim Zoes wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] You all know that the Ding-Dongs (The Bell Campaign) took over the Million Mom's March, right? Well, first their VP in Colorado assaults a gun rights advocate, and now the Bell Campaign (MMM) ransacked the Second Amendment Sisters table at the Republican convention. See radio talk show host Bob Just's take on what this behavior means. Can you say "brown shirts." For Just's article, go to: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_excomm/20000725_xex_fascism_corr.shtml ["Fascism, corruption and my 'Democratic' Party"] For a report on what the MMM's did to the SAS table, and their other rude behavior, go to: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/20000801_xex_million_mom_.shtml Million Mom Marchers ransack pro-gun display Second Amendment Sisters' materials stolen, dumped in garbage can - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- By Roger Abramson © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com PHILADELPHIA -- As the pro-gun rights Second Amendment Sisters were in the process of setting up their display in front of Independence Hall, a contingent of "Million Mom Marchers" came through and ransacked a table of books, pamphlets and other Second Amendment Sisters-related materials, shoving it all into a garbage can down the street. [snip] ========================== I dunno, but sometimes I think we need to reply in kind. Considering the media hostility to gun owners, I'm sure they would salivate at the chance to portray US as the nazis and give a pass to the MMM's. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 00 19:15:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Federal Police (fwd) On Aug 1, Swftl@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Weekly Legislative Update from Congressman Ron Paul (TX)] 1-888-322-1414 July 31, 2000 - --------------- The Disturbing Trend Toward Federal Police The House of Representatives recently approved a massive appropriations bill that will fund various Treasury Department agencies at record spending levels. The bill appropriates nearly 30 billion dollars, an increase over last year's already huge Treasury budget. More disturbing, however, is the whopping 23% increase in funding for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) contained in the Treasury bill. ATF gets more than $730 million dollars for fiscal year 2001, an increase of $166 million over its 2000 budget. Why the increase? The administration wants the agency to hire 600 new federal police officers to enforce ever-expanding gun laws. Never mind the obvious failures of gun control legislation and the clear Second Amendment prohibition against such laws. The politicians in Washington are determined to slowly abolish gun rights, and they are determined to use federal police to accomplish the task. The American public gradually has become aware of the disturbing trend toward federal policing of our nation. Many Americans do not support ATF, especially after the disastrous events at Waco. I was widely attacked in the media and by members of Congress for questioning the government's actions at Waco, and for merely suggesting that many Americans were concerned by the possibility of federal agents taking violent action against American citizens. Now we have Congress spending more money to increase the budget for ATF, despite its highly questionable actions and the resulting public mistrust of the agency. It is important to recognize that our federal constitution lists only three federal crimes, namely counterfeiting, treason, and piracy on the high seas. The founding fathers never envisioned a federal police force, knowing that such a force would trample on the right of each state to enact and enforce its own criminal laws. Hence there is no provision for the creation of a general federal police force in the enumeration of congressional powers. Furthermore, the 10th amendment explicitly reserves the general police power to the states individually. Washington politicians, however, have no interest in constitutional limitations when they seek to expand and consolidate their power by federalizing whole areas of criminal activity. They have consistently expanded federal criminal laws, particularly in the areas of drugs and firearms. The result of this expansion is the inevitable call for more federal police to enforce the new laws. We are told we need more ATF agents to monitor firearms, and more DEA agents to wage the "war on drugs." Congress is not concerned with its lack of constitutional authority to create, much less expand a national police force. Washington politicians have successfully used recent excessive-force allegations against local police to further their goals. It is convenient to portray local police as violent or racist, and therefore in need of federal oversight and restraint. The question, however, is whether we should trust a federal police force more than we trust our own local authorities. I believe there is a growing recognition that our founding fathers were correct when they prohibited federal government involvement in law enforcement. In Waco, Americans had a vivid example of the impact of the growing police state. With the veneer being stripped from the myth of federal law enforcement, our citizens are beginning to realize that it is both unconstitutional and untenable. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he is free." - -Geothe FREE Web-Based email from Keep And Bear Arms!!! Sign Up for your FREE email account today and support the 2nd amendment. Go to http://mail.keepandbeararms.com "America's drug war is so stupid that if you pay close attention to just how stupid it is -- it'll drive you to use drugs." -- Jim Hightower **************************************************************************** To Post a message, send it to: cp3@eGroups.com For Subscription Info and to modify your settings, web postings,etc Go to the CP site: http://www.egroups.com/group/cp3/info.html CPOP web site: http://www.teleport.com/~nepal/canpat.htm Download the OPP legalization petition here: http://198.109.165.99/ballot2000/PRA2000/printable_formoregan.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 00 20:49:41 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Clinton stonewalls disbarment proceedings (fwd) On Aug 1, Swftl@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Bill Clinton is attempting to stonewall disbarment proceeding that Southeastern Legal Foundation initiated in Arkansas. The President's lawyers have asked for delay just six days before they were scheduled to respond to the disbarment judge. President Clinton's lawyers said Clinton has been too busy with the Middle East leaders at Camp David and World Economic Summit in Japan. Clinton claims he has had no time to prepare for his disbarment hearing. But just two months ago, he said he was not going to be personally involved in fighting his disbarment. This shameless stonewalling should be expected since we are dealing with Bill Clinton. Southeastern Legal Foundation filed a successful writ of mandamus in the Arkansas Supreme Court last year to stop Clinton from further stalling the disbarment at that time. The Arkansas Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of SLF and because of our victory, Bill Clinton is now in final stages of disbarment process. But SLF must be prepared to intercede again in court if the stalling continues. This case is not about Bill Clinton, the President. This case is about Bill Clinton, the lawyer and he is trying to put the judicial system on hold for his personal gain. Southeastern Legal Foundation needs to ask you again to help keep the pressure on Bill Clinton and his high priced lawyers. Fighting Clinton's Washington millionaire lawyers is a very expensive fight but we can't just quit and let him win again. Please help SLF pay for this extraordinarily expensive legal work by contributing $25, $35, $50, $100, $500 or even $1000 if you can spare that much. Your contribution is needed right away to keep the pressure on Bill Clinton's disbarment. So whatever you can give, $50, $100, $250 but hopefully at least $25, please click on the link below to go to our secure contribution page. Thank you in advance for your support. Sincerely, Matthew J. Glavin President Southeastern Legal Foundation AOL USERS: CLIC K HERE [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 00 10:03:46 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Certification classes Certify the whole family while you're at it. Imagine a teachers dismay when trying to promulgate an Anti-Gun Agenda, only to discover that one of her students is a Certified NRA Gun Safety Instructor.....:-) On Aug 1, Wendell M. Joost III wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Bill, I've noticed that you're posting almost daily to the WAC EMail list, from a wide variety of sources. I can only assume that you're a pretty well connected person. I'd like to enlist your help in promoting an NRA instructor training course. The RKBA fight needs to be fought on several fronts - the legislative front, the media front and in the homes of our citizens. Unfortunately, we're on the defensive in the media and legislative fronts, however we can take the lead on the home front. The way we do this is by teaching basic firearms safety courses. These are our best recruiting tool for new Second Amendment activists and, by teaching gun safety classes, we ensure that we have a new generation of hunters, shooters and activists to follow in our footsteps. We're putting together this course in Ephrata to cater to the folks who would like to help out, but for one reason or another can't take the usual instructor certification courses. "I can't get time off work." - we scheduled it over a 3 day holiday. "It's too expensive" - we got sponsors to help us cut our costs to well under $100 for a 3 days class. "It's too far to drive." - we put it in the geographical center of the state, a 3 hour drive from almost anywhere in WA. Here's the information. Please let me know if you can help us get the word out, I'd REALLY appreciate it. Thanks, Wendell NRA Instructor Certification Course Labor Day Weekend (Sep 2,3,4) If you are an experienced shooter, interested in helping teach new shooters, you might want to consider becoming an NRA certified instructor. If you're like most shooters, you are already taking people to the range for their first shooting session. Are you up to date on the latest shooting techniques? Do you have liability insurance to cover you while you're teaching a new shooter? If you get certified as an NRA instructor, you will be up-to-date on the latest instructional and shooting techniques. Also, as an NRA certified instructor, you are eligible for special instructor insurance programs through the NRA. The Ephrata Gun Club is sponsoring an NRA Instructor Training Course over Labor Day Weekend (Sep 2,3,4). This three day course will offer you the option of getting certified to teach one of the groups of courses listed below: Home Firearms Safety and Basic Pistol and Personal Protection Home Firearms Safety and Basic Rifle Home Firearms Safety and Basic Shotgun Home Firearms Safety and Muzzleloading Rifle Home Firearms Safety and Basic Pistol and Muzzleloading Pistol If you have any questions, or want to register, please contact Cambria Leonberger at (425) 836-3902 or email: cambrialeonberger@hotmail.com =========================== COURSE APPLICATION The instructor training course will be held at the Ephrata Gun Club, Ephrata, WA on Sept 2-4, 2000. Please fill out the following form, include a check or money order for the course fee, made out to "NRA Training" and mail it to: NRA Training, PO Box 13666, Mill Creek WA 98082 Name:________________________________________________ Mailing Address:_____________________________________ City, State, Zip:____________________________________ Evening Phone:(______) ______-________ EMail:_______________________________________________ Age:____NRA Member Number:___________ Expiration:____ What group of instructor training do you want to take? (check one of the below:) 0 $50.00 Home Firearms Safety. 0 $77.50 Basic Pistol, Home Firearms Safety. 0 $77.50 Basic Rifle, Home Firearms Safety. 0 $78.50 Muzzleloading Rifle, Home Firearms Safety. 0 $82.50 Basic Pistol, Personal Protection, Home Firearms Safety. 0 $87.50 Basic Pistol, Muzzleloading Pistol, Home Firearms Safety. 0 $87.50 Basic Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety. Please answer the following questions. (If you need more space, please continue on the back.) Why do you want to become an NRA certified instructor? Where do you plan to conduct the classroom and range portions of your NRA basic firearms classes? Briefly describe any previous teaching experience (shooting and non-shooting related). Briefly describe your shooting experience with rifles, pistols and shotguns. Please list the types of firearms you have fires (e.g. bolt action rifle, semiauto pistol) and how long you have been shooting them, how often you shoot them, how many rounds you have fired in the last six months and the types of activities in which you participate with these guns. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 00 10:04:52 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NRA Bylaw Reforms (fwd) On Aug 2, Thomas Mosca III wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:29:16 EDT From: Neal Knox Reply-To: chris@nealknox.com Subject: NRA Bylaw Reforms August 1 Neal Knox Special Report -- NRA members' strong voices are clearly heard in the halls of Congress, but not necessarily heard in NRA Headquarters. Or so I'm told in countless letters and phone calls from members angry or irritated about excessive fundraising letters, legislative positions, improperly graded political candidates, instructor certification problems, undelivered hats and a string of other important and trivial issues. I've opened one such letter, and received one such call in just the last half hour. A call I received last month was from a guy who lives in the same town as an influential NRA Director; I suggested that perhaps he should talk to him about the problem. My caller exploded. He said he'd been talking to that Director about the same problem for two years, and though the Director agreed that the problem could and should be corrected, nothing has happened. "Now he refuses to talk about it, saying I should call HQ. My anti-gun Congressman pays more attention to me than my Director does," he fumed. I told him I was working on something that might solve his problem. That "something" is one of the two NRA Bylaws Amendments that Dr. Bill Davis and I are circulating petitions to put on next winter's mail ballot. The first Bylaw Amendment would create representational government in NRA by modifying the way Directors are elected. It calls for 50 of the 75 NRA Directors to be elected for one year terms by members _within_ their states of residence. To provide appropriate representation for the states with larger population, 24 Directors would be elected At Large as at present, except their terms would be for two years instead of three, to keep them "closer to the people" (as the Founding Fathers said about the U.S. House of Representatives). One Director would continue to be elected each year by all members at an annual meeting. The idea of State Directors has been floating around for over 20 years that I know about. What it would do is assure that most voting members in a state would be choosing someone that they actually knew. In every other state, the members of those states would also be choosing people _they_ knew -- either from their state association, or the Friends Dinners, or through a grass roots legislative group, or at the gun shows or at a local range. That alone would have a whale of an impact on the makeup of the Board, for at least two thirds of the Directors would reflect the views of the members of his or her state. But it would also guarantee that each State Director -- who would be running again the following year -- would pay careful attention to the reasonable requests of NRA members, and make sure the NRA staff paid attention. Congressmen call it "constituent service." I will guarantee you that if we get the required 500 validated NRA Voting Member signatures on our petitions by Sept. 1, the Board will oppose it. One argument will be that it's too complicated and costly. Nonsense. Only minimal changes would be needed in the ballots and the dBase computer program to count a candidate's vote from within his state. Another argument will be that the State Director Bylaw would result in over-representation of smaller states. But for several years the tiny state of Rhode Island -- with probably the smallest NRA membership per capita of any state -- has had two Directors. Over one-third of the larger states, some with an unusually high percentage of NRA members, have no representation on the Board. The other proposed bylaw amendment would provide reasonable restrictions against NRA employees and contractors funding, or otherwise being involved in NRA internal elections (except for employees the Secretary assigned to help conduct the elections). The Board will oppose that one, too, for in the last three election cycles -- when no one except nominees of the Board-elected Nominating Committee have been elected -- many or most of those elected paid only a small portion (or none) of the heavy costs of their campaigns. I have reason to believe that most of the $40,000 or so in advertisements directing members "Do Not Vote For" certain people (including me, twice) were paid by NRA vendors and contractors. I also believe vendors paid most of the cost of the campaign mailings, flyers and election handouts that may have cost another $40,000. I have no reason to doubt that those vendors sincerely like NRA E.V.P. Wayne LaPierre, who approves their contracts. But it's worrisome to think that outside commercial interests may be influencing NRA elections -- and, therefore, NRA policies. And I hope I'm wrong. Putting this difficult-to-enforce Bylaw on the books would at least make it clear that the membership doesn't want it to happen. According to the Bylaws, if Bill and I deliver 500 properly identified valid signatures of voting members by Sept. 1, we will also get to write a 500-word statement which will be printed in the election issue of the NRA magazines, which the opposing Board can also match. Approval will require a majority vote of the members voting. No previous Bylaw amendment opposed by the Board has been approved. But I think the members will like these amendments -- which should have the support of every state association, collector organization and other affiliated member group in every state, for it will make it possible for them to elect at least one Director they want. These Bylaw Amendments would assure that the voices of the members are heard in the Board meetings -- and in the Blue Palace on Waples Mill. To help make it happen, start by pointing your web browser to http://www.NealKnox.com/NRA2001/petitions. Read our cover letter and both of the petitions, which you can print out on legal sized paper with a click of the button. Get as many voting member signatures -- and NRA identification numbers -- as you can, and send to Bill at the address indicated. Neal Knox P.S. If you can't download, contact Bill at bdavis123@mindspring.com and send your snailmail address. - -- Help us keep you informed! Send your Firearms Coalition dues to: Neal Knox Associates 7771 Sudley Road, No. 44 Manassas, VA 20109 Suggested dues are the price of a box of ammunition -- $15 - $25. This is the Coalition Alerts list. To subscribe or unsubscribe send mail to fco-request@lists.best.com with the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the body. Archives of these messages are stored at http://www.nealknox.com/alerts/. Copyright (c) 2000 Neal Knox Associates. All Rights Reserved. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 00 20:39:18 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Nightmare: Gore/Clinton Ticket (fwd) On Aug 2, Bard wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to prevail in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.'' --- British statesman Edmund Burke Bard Pro Libertate - For Freedom BUCHANAN-Reform http://gopatgo2000.com/default.htm I N T E R N E T * B R I G A D E http://www.buchanan.org/ * * * * * REGISTER TO VOTE Online * * * * * http://www.insuredemocracy.com/state.htm * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From: "RJK.Sr." <2a.rkba@mail.riverview.net> To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 5:43 PM Subject: [~B_R_F~] Nightmare on Pennsylvania Avenue > http://www.cnn.com/2000/LAW/08/columns/fl.dorf.goreclinton.08.01/ > > WHY THE CONSTITUTION PERMITS A GORE-CLINTON TICKET > > -- Leading in most polls, Texas Gov. > George W. Bush had the luxury of allowing > political calculations to take a back seat in his > choice of a running mate. > > Rather than selecting a flashy personality from a > large "battleground" state that might go either way > in the election, Bush could afford to choose > Wyoming's bland but experienced Dick Cheney as > his veep hopeful. > > Vice President Al Gore, whose campaign needs a > serious jumpstart, cannot afford a similar luxury. > Instead, Gore must choose a running mate who > will generate a sense of excitement. > > Who would be a better choice than the most > charismatic and skillful politician of his generation, > William Jefferson Clinton? > > Indeed, New York Times editorialist Thomas L. > Friedman has already suggested President Clinton > as a potential veep choice for Gore. To be sure, > Friedman made this suggestion jokingly. But > Clinton's charisma is no joke. With Clinton on the > ticket, many swing voters might choose Gore over > Bush (although those suffering Clinton fatigue > might well swing the other way). > > Prognostication aside, the prospect of a Gore-Clinton > ticket raises an interesting > constitutional question: Can a man who has been > president for eight years be > elected and serve as vice-president? > > Language of the 22nd Amendment > > Tremulous Republicans and other naysayers will no doubt > claim that the 22nd > Amendment would bar a Clinton vice-presidency. This > amendment, enacted after > FDR was elected president for the fourth time, imposes a > two-term limit on > presidential candidates. > > Now, the language of the amendment certainly does not > expressly apply to a > vice-presidential candidate. But other constitutional > provisions guarantee that the > vice-president becomes president upon the death, > incapacity, impeachment, or > resignation of the president. > > Thus, if a two-term president like Bill Clinton became > vice-president, that would > raise the specter of a possible third Clinton > presidential term, a specter that > would become a reality if any of these unfortunate > events were to befall a > President Gore. Some might argue that, as a result, a > Clinton vice-presidency > (and that of any two-term president) would be > unconstitutional. > > In support of this argument, one might also cite the > 12th Amendment, which > provides, in pertinent part, that "no person > constitutionally ineligible to the office > of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President > of the United States." > > President Clinton is certainly ineligible to be elected > to another presidential term, > based on the 22nd Amendment. Some might infer from the > 12th Amendment that > he is therefore also ineligible to be elected to a vice- > presidential term. > > Constitution permits a Clinton vice-presidency > > But these naysayers would be wrong. The Constitution > permits Clinton to be > elected vice-president, and if necessary to ascend for a > third time to the > presidency as careful attention to the language of the > 12th and 22nd > Amendments shows. > > The 12th Amendment would allow a Clinton vice- > presidency. Its language only > bars from the vice-presidency those persons who are > "ineligible to the office" of > President. Clinton is not ineligible to the office of > president, however. He is only > disqualified (by the 22nd Amendment) from being elected > to that office. > > This is no mere semantic distinction. Article II of the > Constitution carefully > defines exactly who is "eligible to the Office of > President": anyone who is a > natural born citizen, at least 35 years old, and has > been a U.S. resident for at least > 14 years. > > For example, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is > ineligible for the office of > president because she is a naturalized, rather than a > natural born, citizen. > Accordingly, the 12th Amendment renders her ineligible > to the office of > vice-president as well. > > But Bill Clinton can serve as vice president, because > the 22nd Amendment's > prohibition on running for a third presidential term is > not a condition of the office > of president. > > The 22nd Amendment states: "No person shall be elected > to the office of the > President more than twice, and no person [who has served > more than half a > term] shall be elected to the office of the president > more than once." > > The language is quite clear. It places no limits > whatsoever on how many terms > someone may serve as president, only how many times he > can be elected. > > In other words, the 22nd Amendment does not set > conditions on what the 12th > Amendment calls eligibility to the office of president. > Anyone who is born here > and has lived here for 14 years becomes eligible to be > president on his or her > 35th birthday and is then so eligible forever. > > Thus, if. Clinton were to be elected vice president and > ascend to the presidency > based on, for example, Gore's resignation, then nothing > unconstitutional would > have occurred. Clinton would have been elected to the > presidency only twice > though he would serve as president thrice. Under the > 22nd Amendment, that is > perfectly permissible. > > The spirit of the 22nd Amendment > > Nonetheless, it could be argued that permitting Clinton > to run for, and be elected > to the office of, vice president violates the spirit if > not the letter of the 22nd > Amendment. > > The argument is a weak one, however. The 22nd Amendment > was adopted in > part simply to formalize the tradition unbroken until > FDR that American > presidents should not seek a third term. > > It was also a reaction to the growth in the power of the > president in the 20th > Century. But in seeking the vice-presidency, a job in > John Nance Garner's > unforgettable phrase, "not worth a bucket of warm spit," > Clinton would hardly > be bidding for dictatorial powers. > > Furthermore, Republicans trying to fend off the winning > Gore-Clinton team lack > moral standing to invoke the spirit of any > constitutional provision, in preference > to its plain language. > > George W. Bush proudly calls himself a "strict > constructionist" who hews to the > letter of the Constitution. And the exegesis of the 22nd > Amendment that I have > provided here is exactly the sort of "textualism" that > Bush's judicial heroes > Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas routinely applaud. > > Of course, even if Gore were to offer him the number two > spot, Clinton might > turn it down. That would be a mistake for Clinton and > for the country. He > thrives on campaigns and we, as a people, thrive on him. > > Michael C. Dorf is vice dean and professor of law at > Columbia University, where he > teaches civil procedure and constitutional law. He is > the co-author, with Laurence H. > Tribe, of the book "On Reading the Constitution." > Michael C. Dorf is also a FindLaw > contributor. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #372 *************************