From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #379 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, August 10 2000 Volume 02 : Number 379 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Aug 00 12:42:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Hunley URLS - Aug 8 2000 The Big Day (fwd) OT, but of Historical note to Civil War/submarine/Naval History buffs, the raising of the Hunley is a sags in itself. The Hunley, which sank on her maiden voyage, was the first submarine to sink an enemy ship. On Aug 08, jbass wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] H.L. Hunley - Official Site http://www.hunley.org/ Read the history of the submarine, and learn about its part in the Civil=20 War. Find out how the sub worked through detailed sketches. Hunley Update http://www.cla.sc.edu/sciaa/hunley1.html Univ. of S. Carolina provides news updates and images of this Confederate=20 submarine that sank while ramming a Union warship. The Official Hunley Project Page http://members.aol.com/litespdcom/ Sons of Confederate Veterans offer news and historical articles about the=20 Confederate submarine. Download texts and graphics. Naval Historical Center - H.L. Hunley http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-3.htm Read a history of the Confederate submarine and find information about its= =20 wreck. Also find links to current research and findings. Shipwrecks.com - H.L. Hunley http://www.shipwrecks.com/hunley/hunley.htm Read Dr. Lee Spence's account of his discovery of the Confederate=20 submarine. Also find links to Hunley related news. National Park Service - H.L. Hunley Site Assessment http://www.nps.gov/scru/hlweb.html Download this report in PDF format and learn about the site that the Hunley= =20 was recovered at. CSS Hunley http://www.webcom.com/subwar/hunley.html Offers an article written shortly after the discovery of the Confederate=20 submarine, which was the first one to ever sink an enemy ship. Turner, Ted - Lends Name to Recovery Effort http://augustachronicle.com/stories/072397/met_hunley.html learn about his support for a project to raise the Confederate submarine=20 "Hunley," sunk off the coast of South Web Pages 1 - 7 of 3571 Hunley http://www.hunley.org/ =A9 2000, Friends of the Hunley - Charleston, South Carolina Hunley update http://www.cla.sc.edu/sciaa/hunley1.html HUNLEY UPDATE A selection. A selection. (Last updated 7/17/99) The wreck of= =20 the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley was discovered early in May, 1995,=20 off Sullivan's Island, South Carolina. The 40-foot Hunley sank in the=20 aftermath of her maiden... THE HUNLEY - A TNT ORIGINAL FILM http://www.tnt-tv.com/movies/tntoriginals/hunley =A9 2000 Turner Network Television. A Time Warner Company. All Rights=20 Reserved. Legal/Privacy Notice about this site. Hunley Email Service - the hunley.com domain is available for email address= es! http://www.hunley.com/ the hunley.com domain is shared for Email and Website addresses. Example=20 YourName@hunley.com, www.YourName.hunley.com (John David HUMPHRIES - Mary=20 Lee HUNLEY ) http://www.megabits.net/~lthurman/loren/thurmfam/index/ind0170.html Index of THURMFAM Database: John David HUMPHRIES - Mary Lee HUNLEY 11578=20 THURMFAM Database individuals, 4201 THURMFAM Database families from file=20 THURM236.GED (23 May 2000) hunley http://www.hunley.org/hunley.html Hunley update--7/17/99 http://www.cla.sc.edu/SCIAA/jul17.html HUNLEY UPDATE 7/17/99 Friends of the Hunley, Inc is a 501(c)(3) non-profit= =20 organization created by the The South Carolina Hunley Commission and tasked= =20 with raising money from individuals, corporations, philanthropic=20 organizations, as well as from... there will be shots of the raising by CNN and other net work stations=20 tomorrow, Aug 8, 2000. josie [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 00 00:48:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: THE HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE (fwd) (fwd) On Aug 8, John S wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Matthew 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? I come at this from a slightly different angle than most heterosexual Christian males. You see, for over a year I spent time working with homosexuals in a one on one environment, every day. Let me share with you some things that I learned about them. Most of them are decent people. The "Flamming Fag" is the odd ball and is even disliked by the majority of the male and female homosexual population. However, it is, as they say, the squeeaky wheel that gets the greese. Its those "in-your-face types that get all the attention. Their anger toward the church and the people in it is not because they just hate Christians, its because Christians hated them first. Most of them do not hate God either. In fact, many are searching for our great loving God and can not find Him because of all the angry words that come from God's children. Sure, they come off as being sarcastic, and even mean spirited, but that is because they have been poorly treated by the rest of us. Often people would approach me and be so defensive at first that they were actually offensive. "So...your the Christian who likes queers" they would say, "man you aint no better than us and your kidding yourself if you think you are!" To which I could only reply, "You're right, I'm no better than you are. Except, I've made up my mind to follow Jesus, and I'm trusting Him to pay the price of my sin. Who are you trusting to pay the price of your sin?" I also had to put up with much more than my share of obscene offers from men who used that as a way to test me and see if I was for real or not. They would say anything, do anything, to try and insult, embarrass me, make me respond to them in the fashion that they had become accustomed to by Christians,or just make me go away. What they did not count on was standing face to face with someone who is keenly aware just how deeply into sin his life was before Jesus reached down to me. Someone who had pretty much see it all before and was not easily shocked. As much as the idea sickens me personally, after being responsible for multiple deaths, and then driving a rig for 20 some odd years, two men or two women having sex together is not one of the things at the top of my list of disgusting things. Many of these people have been trying to find Jesus for so long that they have given up. The church won't help them. The people who go to church won't help them. Just like everyone else, they judge the God we serve by our actions. What I learned in my years work was simple. Give them half a chance to know Chirst and they will go a lot farther than any "normal" person will towards really living for Jesus. Offer them a kind, loving and forgiving God, and they will jump at the chance to know Him. Even when it means giving up their lifestyle and staying alone. Some of them never make the transition from gay to straight. However, amoung that group, most of the ones who are really trying to live for Jesus, live alone. Some take a like minded room mate for company, but they live in a non-sexual relationship. Much like a couple of male or female friends sharing expenses on an apartment. Its been my experience that homosexuals want to be Christians, but they know that God hates their sin. Unfortunately, we have compounded that problem because we hate them. satan uses us every time we tell a homosexual joke, or make some off colored remark about them. Each time we talk as though there is no possible hope for them ever finding God and being saved, satan uses us to puch them farther and farther away from knowing God's love and deeper and deeper into the sin that seperates them from God. Here's something else I learned while working with these people. Most of them had some experience during their early childhood that pushed tehm toward that lifestyle. Its not genetic, don't fall for that lie. Its the result of actions. Its choises based on reactions to stimuli. The boy, with an extremely over bearing and controlling parent may react by becoming a homosexual to "get even" with that parent. Its not a conscience thaought.... this getting even...... it just happens that way. Usually they aren't even aware of it, but as you talk to them, you notice a change of tone when they speak of that parent. There is a hint of fear, or anger, in their voice...even if that parent is long dead. For others, it was a case of abuse that left a mental scar on them for life. One woman I met during this period would never admit that the events had any effect on her life and she never put the whole story together in one paragraph. However, during the course of our conversations she told me of being sexually "used" (molested is too nice a word for what happened to her) as a young girl by (of all things) a deacon at her parent's church. This man would tell her what a dirty, filthy child she was, and how God hated children like her. He warned her that no one would believe her if she told about what they did together, and to make it worse, she was beaten by her mother and father when she did tell them about it. So she finally believed her abuser and submitted to him quietly. You see folks, for the largest majority of homosexuals, life as we know it is simply something that can not be achieved. Not because they don't want it, but because usually, we won't let them have it. Is it any wonder that they hate us? I'd hate us too if for some reason we started telling me that God hates me and that there is nothing I can ever do to recieve His love. Fortunately for me, I have always trusted God much more than any man, woman, or child. There would be far less homosexuals in the world if those of us who know God best, would act like it more often. Sorry for the soap box sonata. JohnS. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 00 01:02:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Latest research Lew, your friends need to know about this. I just had a power glitch and lost the file I was going to send. As I don't have net access right now, I can't do a search for it, but maybe you can. I'll try to recall as many clues asI can, but you'll have to do the looking. Basically, those hot shot reasearchersthat went to Africa to try to stop the AIDS epidemic over there, have found that there is _no_ HIV virus. Not even some magical monkey virus, etc. I don't recall if it was explicitly stated or inferred by the articles author, but the gist of it is that there are two ways to go. Imunological matrial exists in all bodily fluids. When the immunological system is weakened, a fatal disease can be easily caught. Old news. The new news is that when fluids are exchanged, the altered immunological material itself is, or may be, what causes similar changees in a new hosts immunological material, thus passing or accelorating AIDS. In other words, AIDS is nothing more than the end result of accumulated hits to the immune system, in those who manage to escape diseases caught through a weakening of that system. The immune system itself weakens until it simply colapses entirely. AIDS is thus literally, the slow march, "butt fuck of death". The eventual result of an action, not a disease, or a virus. Much of that was inferred/implied by the author, and some was explicitly stated, but there's no way for me to tell which was which at the moment. Unfortunately, thats as good as I can recall, so there is no doubt some innacuracy, and definitely inability to recall many unfamiliar medical terms. I hope thats enough to help find the article for you. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 00 12:39:03 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Interesting Items 8/07 (fwd) Pass the word! This should be done for Gun Manufacturers, Gun Shows, "big" tobacco, and any other industry under attack by the left. On Aug 08, Alex Gimarc wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Monday, August 8, 2000 Interesting Items 8/07 - Howdy all, a few Interesting Items for your information. Enjoy - In this issue: 1. Equal Time 2. Lunz on The Speech 3. Newt is Back 4. Harassment Bonds 5. Red Light Runners 6. Attack Dog 7. Colin Powell [snip] 4. Harassment Bonds. Thomas Sowell wrote a column that showed up on Town Hall midweek describing some costs inflicted by a California State Judge on an anti-logging group. The loggers being harassed, demanded the greenies post a bond equal to the amount of revenue, expenses, time and equipment that the logging company would lose sitting idle while fighting the suit in court. The bond is forfeit to the loggers if the greenies lose their lawsuit. The bond was demanded in the interest of justice, inflicting risk and cost equally on both sides litigating. Prior to this, environmentalists nationwide have systematically used public interest lawsuits to delay, bleed, harass, and otherwise cost resource developers their livelihood. Perhaps the tide is going to turn. Sowell, Aug 2, townhall.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:19:37 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Latest research Bill: A) My gay friends are mostly female. Of the males, only one is young enough that he might be stupid, but I don't think he is. So, my heterosexual friends, young and old, are likely to be at greater risk for HIV. B) The HIV/AIDS association could be argued when ??SF Researcher?? originally applied Koch's Postulates to the problem and found the "disease causality" inadequate. At the time, it wasn't unreasonable -- good scientific critique. (As with most such critiques, it didn't have much impact because he didn't provide an alternative disease agent for AIDS. Scientists tend to go with theories which provide testable hypotheses 8). However, that was 15 years ago. We now have an enormous amount of information on the exact proteins an HIV virus uses to 'dock' on the CD4 T cells (and the gene modifications which make a person immune to HIV), the mechanisms of CD4 T cell death caused by HIV, the biochemical mechanisms by which the 'cocktail' of drugs suppresses HIV viral load (not a measure of antibodies to HIV, but of the HIV virus particles themselves), the rebound in CD4 T cell counts, and the decrease in morbidity/mortality which accompanies this rebound of CD4 T cell counts. Also, of course, failures of the drug treatments, and increasing viral load, decreasing CD4 T cell counts, and increasing AIDS. In other words, not just a correlation between HIV and AIDS (the original critique by Duesenberg (almost the right name) ), but a detailed chain of biochemical causality between infection by HIV and the ultimate development of AIDS. There are, of course, a myriad of other factors which can impair immune system function (most not affecting CD4 T cells) which will hasten/enhance development of the various opportistic infections characteristic of AIDS. Earlier, I believe the definition of AIDS was too soft here. Now I think it is HIV infection, a low CD4 T cell count and any of various infections due to loss of immune system function. I haven't taught med school physiology in 26 years, so my biochemistry is hazy, and therefore my judgement is less than perfect. My HIV biology/biochemistry info is not as detailed as a professional. Still, I have read a fair amount of the semi-technical literature and some of the critiques of HIV/AIDS. I find the latter unconvincing for the above reasons. No doubt I could still be wrong, but there is no hypothesis I know of which comes close to covering the known facts. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:03 AM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Latest research > > > Lew, your friends need to know about this. > > I just had a power glitch and lost the file I was going to send. > As I don't > have net access right now, I can't do a search for it, but maybe you can. > I'll try to recall as many clues asI can, but you'll have to do > the looking. > > Basically, those hot shot reasearchersthat went to Africa to try > to stop the > AIDS epidemic over there, have found that there is _no_ HIV > virus. Not even > some magical monkey virus, etc. > > I don't recall if it was explicitly stated or inferred by the articles > author, but the gist of it is that there are two ways to go. Imunological > matrial exists in all bodily fluids. When the immunological system is > weakened, a fatal disease can be easily caught. Old news. The > new news is > that when fluids are exchanged, the altered immunological material itself > is, or may be, what causes similar changees in a new hosts immunological > material, thus passing or accelorating AIDS. In other words, AIDS is > nothing more than the end result of accumulated hits to the immune system, > in those who manage to escape diseases caught through a weakening of that > system. The immune system itself weakens until it simply > colapses entirely. > AIDS is thus literally, the slow march, "butt fuck of death". > The eventual > result of an action, not a disease, or a virus. > > Much of that was inferred/implied by the author, and some was explicitly > stated, but there's no way for me to tell which was which at the moment. > Unfortunately, thats as good as I can recall, so there is no doubt some > innacuracy, and definitely inability to recall many unfamiliar medical > terms. I hope thats enough to help find the article for you. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > - > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 00 22:37:41 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RE: Latest research Most of your post went over my head. The closest I came to anything like that, was a class in Physical Anthropology, and ancient bones ain't the same thing. Coonversely, I could just as well have been hoaxed, as much of the referred to post did likewise. Oh well, if it's for real, it should be showing up somewhere again, assumung the Thought Police don't kill it. In case you haven't noticed, I make no pretence whatsoever to understanding med-speak. I can't even remember the Latin names of all the broken bones I've got these days. On Aug 9, Lew Glendenning wrote: >Bill: > >A) My gay friends are mostly female. Of the males, only one is young >enough >that he might be stupid, but I don't think he is. > >So, my heterosexual friends, young and old, are likely to be at greater risk > for HIV. > >B) The HIV/AIDS association could be argued when ??SF Researcher?? >originally >applied Koch's Postulates to the problem and found the "disease causality" >inadequate. At the time, it wasn't unreasonable -- good scientific >critique. >(As with most such critiques, it didn't have much impact because he didn't >provide an alternative disease agent for AIDS. Scientists tend to go >with theories which provide testable hypotheses 8). > >However, that was 15 years ago. We now have an enormous amount of >information >on the exact proteins an HIV virus uses to 'dock' on the CD4 T cells (and >the >gene modifications which make a person immune to HIV), the mechanisms of CD4 >T >cell death caused by HIV, the biochemical mechanisms by which the 'cocktail' >of >drugs suppresses HIV viral load (not a measure of antibodies to HIV, but of >the >HIV virus particles themselves), the rebound in CD4 T cell counts, and the >decrease in morbidity/mortality which accompanies this rebound of CD4 T cell >counts. > >Also, of course, failures of the drug treatments, and increasing viral load, >decreasing CD4 T cell counts, and increasing AIDS. > >In other words, not just a correlation between HIV and AIDS (the original >critique by Duesenberg (almost the right name) ), but a detailed chain of >biochemical causality between infection by HIV and the ultimate development >of AIDS. > >There are, of course, a myriad of other factors which can impair immune >system >function (most not affecting CD4 T cells) which will hasten/enhance >development >of the various opportistic infections characteristic of AIDS. > >Earlier, I believe the definition of AIDS was too soft here. Now I think it >is HIV infection, a low CD4 T cell count and any of various infections due >to >loss of immune system function. > >I haven't taught med school physiology in 26 years, so my biochemistry is >hazy, >and therefore my judgement is less than perfect. My HIV >biology/biochemistry >info is not as detailed as a professional. > >Still, I have read a fair amount of the semi-technical literature and some >of the critiques of HIV/AIDS. I find the latter unconvincing for the above >reasons. > >No doubt I could still be wrong, but there is no hypothesis I know of which >comes close to covering the known facts. > >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:03 AM >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Latest research >> >> >> Lew, your friends need to know about this. >> >> I just had a power glitch and lost the file I was going to send. >> As I don't >> have net access right now, I can't do a search for it, but maybe you can. >> I'll try to recall as many clues asI can, but you'll have to do >> the looking. >> >> Basically, those hot shot reasearchersthat went to Africa to try >> to stop the >> AIDS epidemic over there, have found that there is _no_ HIV >> virus. Not even >> some magical monkey virus, etc. >> >> I don't recall if it was explicitly stated or inferred by the articles >> author, but the gist of it is that there are two ways to go. Imunological >> matrial exists in all bodily fluids. When the immunological system is >> weakened, a fatal disease can be easily caught. Old news. The >> new news is >> that when fluids are exchanged, the altered immunological material itself >> is, or may be, what causes similar changees in a new hosts immunological >> material, thus passing or accelorating AIDS. In other words, AIDS is >> nothing more than the end result of accumulated hits to the immune system, >> in those who manage to escape diseases caught through a weakening of that >> system. The immune system itself weakens until it simply >> colapses entirely. >> AIDS is thus literally, the slow march, "butt fuck of death". >> The eventual >> result of an action, not a disease, or a virus. >> >> Much of that was inferred/implied by the author, and some was explicitly >> stated, but there's no way for me to tell which was which at the moment. >> Unfortunately, thats as good as I can recall, so there is no doubt some >> innacuracy, and definitely inability to recall many unfamiliar medical >> terms. I hope thats enough to help find the article for you. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Aug 00 23:16:45 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Beer Waiting Period (fwd) On Aug 10, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY It never ceases to amaze me that elected officials who swear to uphold the Constitution think they have been given the power to write laws that deprive citizens of their Bill of Rights. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Paul E Zimmerman wrote: > > For additional information: > George Getz, Press Secretary > Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222 > E-Mail: pressreleases@hq.LP.org > =============================== > > New Ohio state law requires five-day > waiting period for buying beer (really!) > > WASHINGTON, DC -- A new law in Ohio that requires a five-day > > waiting period before buying beer -- yes, you read that correctly -- > > has Libertarians wondering: How Lowenbrau can politicians go? > > "This is the worst idea since Billy Beer," said Libertarian > Party press secretary George Getz. "We don't want to Harp on this, > but > beer-lovers everywhere will be sadder, Budweiser, when they hear > that > politicians in Ohio plan to treat every drinker like a criminal." > > On Wednesday, August 9, a new Ohio law will require anyone > buying five or more kegs of beer to fill out a form with the Ohio > Department of Public Safety, and then wait five days before picking > up > the beer. > > The law, dubbed "Five in Five," also gives law enforcement > the > right to search the site of a beer party without first obtaining a > search warrant. > > Several other states -- including Iowa, New Hampshire, > Kansas, > and Pennsylvania -- have similar laws or are considering similar > legislation, according to Fox News. And Maryland requires all kegs > of > beer to be registered with the state government. > > Politicians said such laws are necessary because some keg > parties have become violent -- but Libertarians said this kind of > "Nanny State" regulation just Foster's more disrespect for the law. > > "Even the most Mooseheaded politician admits these laws will > > have little effect, since people can just buy four kegs at a time at > > different locations, or buy beer by the case," said Getz. > > "The kind of irresponsible people who hold out-of-control > parties are the same people who will casually circumvent this law, > while law-abiding, responsible people will be inconvenienced. It > shouldn't take a Pabst Blue Ribbon panel to figure that out." > > The Ohio law is especially disturbing because it requires > people to give up their Constitutional protections against > unreasonable search, he said. > > "The Fourth Amendment shouldn't be revoked simply because > you want to have a wedding party, or a family reunion, or a > neighborhood block party that includes kegs of beer," said Getz. > "America's Founding Fathers like Sam Adams would never have stood > for such a law." > > Instead of targeting everyone, the police should focus > just on those irresponsible drinkers who commit crimes, he said. > > "If law-abiding adults are enjoying a legal beverage and > behaving responsibly, they should not have to worry that police > will suddenly show up and demand to search the place," said Getz. > "Law-abiding people should not be treated like drunken criminals." > > Ohio residents should contact their legislators and demand > the repeal of this law, he said -- before it foams over to other > states. > > "This is a Busch-league law, and it needs to be repealed," > said Getz. "This is a Molsen Golden opportunity for Ohio residents > to stand up for liberty." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 00 14:21:55 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] puzzle pieces? (fwd) On Aug 10, John Fisher wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Are they starting to come together? http://www.egroups.com/message/RMNEWS_DAILY_EMAILS/2325 From: Ru Mills Date: Wed Aug 9, 2000 10:44pm Subject: HAS THE WAR BEGUN?? ===========RUMOR MILL NEWS AGENCY=========== >From Rayelan Allan, Publisher, RMNews On April 17th, 1995, I received a telephone call from my husband, Gunther Russbacher. He said, "The war has begun!" I asked him what he meant. He said a Learjet had just crashed in Alabama. On board were 17 Admirals and Generals. They were on their way to arrest Bill Clinton. All the military men were killed. That same day, Sherman Skolnick was told the same thing by one of his sources. The same day, Oswald LeWinter talked to a reporter for a major New York newspaper. LeWinter told the reporter the same thing -- and it was published -- April 19, 1995. No one paid any attention to the story because in the early morning of April 19, 1995, the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City blew up. In other words, the people who had the goods on Clinton and his cabal were making plans to arrest all of them. All these men were blown out of the sky and murdered. To keep their murders from being investigated -- the Murrah building was blown up and 168 additional men, women and children were murdered. For the last few months, Rumor Mill News has been receiving information that foreign governments are investigating the United States. Many of these investigations started due to Echelon. But once the investigations started, they were propelled by the fuel they discovered. These investigators are just about to release their information -- It could come out any day now -- Or will it? Today two small planes collided over New Jersey. One of the planes was from theLakehurst Naval Air Station and it was on the way to Pax River Naval Facilities. It was carrying 8 or 9 civilian government employees. Pax River is important because this is the installation where a new super secret spy unit was to be based. The new spy unit was to be named DIS (Defense Intelligence Services). It was supposed to be the umbrella that oversaw the operations of 26 intelligence services. It is not known if DIS was exclusively made up of United States intelligence services, or if other allies were/are members. Sherman Skolnick has speculated that only 13 of the intel units are from the United States, and the other 13 are made up of our allies. In light of the information that our allies are conducting the investigations, this makes sense. Is the collision of these two small planes an attempt to stop the investigators from releasing information that will rock this government to its core? I think today was round one in the war -- Other things that are happening -- + The Rumor Mill News webpage is being hit hard today by government agencies. So is Surfing the Apocalypse and other similar webpages. My computer is barely running -- and I can barely stay on the Web. + Sherman Skolnick reported that the Arkansas area code is constantly busy -- in other words -- no one can call Arkansas. + Skolnick also said that many people have called him and reported that when they send faxes -- the faxes emerge on the other end in a DIFFERENT FONT. This can happen if they have been intercepted by a computer and then resent. + Skolnick also said that he has been told that the Vince Foster investigation is heating up again -- He has been told that the investigators have hard evidence that Foster was murdered. + Skolnick reported years ago that Foster was the equivalent to a three star general in NSA + Skolnick also reported that Foster has sold the Israelis national security secrets. http://www.skolnicksreport.com + Rumors is Israel state that late today or tomorrow could see a riot at the Wailing Wall which could escalate into a war which could possibly see damage done to the sacred Moslem site, the Dome of the Rock. This could be the prelude to Armageddon. + Other sources have told RMNews that the huge metal trusts that RMNews has written about are just about to be broken. These trusts have had liens and lines of credit on them. As a result -- the trusts had to stay in tact. The money that was received from the liens and lines of credit was put into the United States stock market. If these liens and lines of credit are paid off, it means that the money has been taken out of the stock market. If all the money from all of the lines of credit and liens is pulled out at one time -- THE MARKET CRASHES + The timing of the pullout from the market depends on who is winning the war. + If the Bush supporters are ahead or more in favor -- the pull out will come right before the election. + If the Clinton people can somehow hold on to power -- the crash will come after the election -- Gore will take the fall for it -- and Senator Joseph Lieberman will become President Joseph Lieberman. If Hillary wins the senate seat, she will be appointed Vice President. + One source stated that Lieberman is only the "token" being thrown to the liberals. He stated that there was no way that Gore was going to win the election, and the Democrats knew it. In 1984 Geraldine Ferraro was picked to be the first female chosen as a candidate for Vice President of the United States. I called a contact on Capitol Hill, who worked for a powerful Democratic Senator. I was telling her how wonderful it was that a woman had been picked by Walter Mondale. Her reply crushed me. The high ranking political appointee said, "Ferraro is just a token woman. We know Mondale can't beat Reagan, and so we decided to do something that will bring more women in to the Democratic Party." The high ranking political appointee used the same word that the RMNews source used: TOKEN Lieberman is the TOKEN JEW just as Ferraro was the TOKEN WOMAN Will the American people have time to wake up are realize the games that are being played? Or will something similar to the Oklahoma City bombing occur in the next few days or weeks to insure that our attention is focused elsewhere? Remember "Wag the Dog"! I have the horrible feeling that a domestic "Wag the Dog" is just about to take place. And this domestic "Wag the Dog" will keep the American pubic from ever finding out what the foreign investigators have uncovered. Developing --- Rayelan [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #379 *************************