From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #383 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, August 24 2000 Volume 02 : Number 383 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Aug 00 19:23:42 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Feminine Protection] (fwd) A sub might be a good birthday present..... On Aug 21, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:27:21 -0400 Reply-To: kempgroup@egroups.com Subject: [kempgroup] Feminine Protection http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1267 Feminine Protection by Lynn Burke October, 1999 If someone told you that about 14 million women in this country share a secret, chances are you might think it's about sex, shoes, or obsessive compulsive disorder. You might be surprised to hear the true secret: that those millions of women are packing heat. "My mother's got a gun," says 26-year-old Robin, who didn't want to be identified further. "She used to drive around with it in the car - I grew up with it. But she'd kill me if she knew I told you that." Robin's mom is like a lot of women who own guns - she's embarrassed. She's not a militia member, she doesn't dress in camouflage. She's an attorney living in the San Francisco Bay Area who wants to protect herself but doesn't want to admit it. "Women are supposed to be 'nice,' they like to think of themselves as nurturing and they don't like to think about hurting someone," explains Dr. Helen Smith, 38, a forensic psychologist in Knoxville, Tenn. Smith, who works with violent criminals in the courts, sees the aftermath of violence, some of it gun-related, on a near daily basis. Which is exactly why she says she's pro-gun. "I see so many women shot dead," she explains. "An ex-husband comes back to the house, and if she doesn't have a gun..." She says women hop on the gun-control bandwagon because it feels right, because they don't understand how guns work, and because they don't want to take the responsibility of protecting themselves. "When women get on their high horse, what they don't realize is they're taking away someone's right to self-protection," she says. "If you want to die on the street, that's fine." In the most recent Gallop Poll conducted on gun ownership for the U.S. Department of Justice, 27 percent of women surveyed said they had a gun in the home, which means 37.6 million women have access to guns. There is no single source of statistics on American gun owners, male or female, though estimates of women gun owners usually range from 11 to 18 million. Though everyone who buys a gun legally fills out a federal form indicating gender and other demographic indicators, the federal government does not "count" gun owners. When women decide they're going to get married, the first thing many of them do is pick up a copy of Bride magazine. But where do women go who are considering buying a gun? Or who want to read about other women who own guns? Many turn to Women & Guns, a bimonthly publication focused on self-protection published by the Second Amendment Foundation, a 25-year-old non-profit publishing group based in Washington, D.C. According to Peggy Tartaro, editor of Women & Guns, when the magazine launched in February 1989, it had fewer than 500 subscribers. When the title hit newsstand in 1991, circulation began to climb and today stands around 25,000. Gun journalism across the board is experiencing a boom right now. Titles like Guns & Ammo and Rifle & Shotgun have seen circulation rates jump 4.5 and 18.5 percent, respectively, since 1994, according to the Audit Bureau of Circulation. The same period has also seen handgun sales slump from 4 million in 1994 to 1.5 million in 1998 as the result of federal laws banning some assault weapons. This month, EMAP Petersen, the largest publisher of gun-title magazines, will launch a magazine called Petersen's Outdoors for Women, aimed at women interested in hunting and shooting sports. Initial copies will be sent to the 5,000 or so women who are members of the Women's Shooting Sports Foundation. The trick is making traditionally macho gun magazines palpable for women. Tartaro says Women & Gun's success stems from its brand of feminism that treats guns as a potential equalizer. "If you can run a car, if you can operate a microwave, there's no reason on earth why you can't operate a gun," she says. The magazine firmly rejects the stereotype of a the man-hating, hysterical female gun-owner Tartaro calls a "Thelma meets Louise with a really bad case of PMS." Readers, she says, can flip through the pages and see women they can recognize as real people. And the articles found in Women & Guns are not exactly the kind one might see in Guns & Ammo. A recent issue of the magazine contained features titled "Women-only hunt stalks feral pigs"; "Do I still get to hunt with you? A unique father-daughter relationship"; and "Defensive strategies: Tactics for couples." Readers of the magazine don't fall into any easy category. They are usually married or in long-term relationships, range from age 20 to 79 with most somewhere in the middle, are college educated, and tend to live in small towns or rural areas (not in the South), though about 25 percent live in cities. And they're not all Republicans. Tartaro herself is a registered Democrat. Some argue that gun manufacturers and marketers have targeted women as an untapped market, and have tricked them into gun ownership by exploiting their fears. Anti-gun advocates such as Sarah Brady point to the National Rifle Association, the gun-lobby's most powerful organization, as courting women by playing on their fears. Indeed, NRA has campaigns like "Refuse to be a Victim" urging women (apparently there are no male victims) to "even their odds" by attending NRA-sponsored personal safety classes. But Tartaro says this sort of logic is both flawed and sexist. Women's increased interest in guns was already there, she argues, long before the male-dominated gun manufacturers paid attention. "You don't just see an ad for a gun and suddenly run out and buy one. It's a very narrow kind of a thing," she says. "If you want to see an ad about a gun, you've got to go buy a gun magazine." Women have always had a visible, if not exactly egalitarian, relationship with the gun industry. Scantily clad, busty chicks clutching long thick guns in their hands appear in glossy advertisements of gun magazines, suggesting that the quickest virility boost is a new Glock. And puerile fantasy litters the Internet with pornographic images proving that women with guns have always been sexy to men--that is, as long as they stay in the fantasy world created for them. But this is changing; women with attitude are no longer startling. Slick, kick-ass women such as Linda Hamilton in "Terminator 2" or Sigourney Weaver in the "Alien" movies have become positively mainstream. And grrrl power has brought us female destroyers in more shapes and sizes than ever, from the perky Sarah Michelle Gellar, who plays Buffy the Vampire Slayer, to the lean and mean warrior princess Lucy Lawless of Xena-fame. Just as women aren't expected to hurl grown men through the air, they're also not expected to own guns. But millions do. And as long as they remain silent, the debate over gun control will remain incomplete. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Lynn Burke is a Boston native living in Oakland, Calif., and writing about housing and real estate for Inman News. Her articles have also appeared in the Oakland Tribune and East Bay Express. If someone can locate her for us, we'd like to thank her for being a Patriot, and tell her she can add us to the list of publisher's honored to share her insights with others. Read other articles in our Women & Guns section. QUOTES TO REMEMBER None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. ~~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German philosopher Send this page to a friend | Contact Us | About Us | Services General E-mail: info@keepandbeararms.com The information contained in this site is not to be considered as legal advice. In no way are Keep And Bear Arms .com or any of its agents responsible for the actions of our members or site visitors. Also, because this web site is a Free Speech Zone, opinions, ideas, beliefs, suggestions, practices and concepts throughout this site may or may not represent those of Keep And Bear Arms .com. All rights reserved. No portion of this site may be reproduced in any form without express written permission. Website Design by BuiltPRO LLC - Professionally Built Websites © 1999-2000, All Rights Reserved the Right to Keep and Bear Arms webring sponsored by Keep And Bear Arms site owned by Keep And Bear Arms PREV 5 PREV INDEX NEXT NEXT 5 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 00 12:14:11 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Another EO (fwd) On Aug 22, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FR: Jim Boulet, Jr. DT: August 21, 2000 Clinton Executive Order 13166: The United States is now officially multilingual On Friday, August 11, President Clinton issued Executive Order 13166 from Los Angeles. With a stroke of his pen, President Clinton has transformed the official English debate. Executive Order 13166 makes the inability to speak English a protected civil right. That's right. If you don't understand English, it will be the job of the government to make sure you still get your welfare checks, food stamps and all other government benefits. All you will need to do in any government office to get special treatment is to say "No habla Ingles." The Clinton Executive Order states that "the programs and activities normally provide[d] in English [must be] accessible to LEP [Limited English Proficient] persons and thus do not discriminate on the basis of national origin." The Clinton Administration has long held that the inability to speak English, something which can be remedied by a few hours in a language class, is somehow just as permanent as a person's race. They claim that a providing services only in English somehow discriminates against people on the basis of their "national origin." Now when Congress passed the 1965 Civil Rights Act, it certainly never spoke about the importance of government services in multiple languages. (At that time, Canada had not even passed its Official Languages Act!) As you can also see, Executive Order 13166 requires every federal agency to "develop and implement a system by which LEP persons can meaningfully access [government] services." Bill Clinton has ordered that "[e]ach Federal agency shall prepare a plan to improve access to its federally conducted programs and activities by eligible LEP persons" and do so before Clinton must leave office. Yes, this sounds unbelievable. That is why I've encourage you to read Clinton's Executive Order 13166 for yourself: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/cor/leptx.htm You can e-mail your Congressman and both your Senators on this issue by going to the English First Legislative Action and Resource Center: http://congress.nw.dc.us/ef/index.pl Please send them an e-mail as soon as you can. Convention Analysis Both the Republican and Democratic Platforms endorsed bilingual education. I analyzed each of them for National Review Online. Republican: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment072800d.html Democratic: http://www.nationalreview.com/convention/guest_comment/guest_comment081500a.shtml I also had some comments on a better way for the GOP to seek the Hispanic vote: http://www.nationalreview.com/convention/floor/floor080300b.shtml The Governor of Spanish-only Puerto Rico, Pedro Rossello, was a featured speaker at the Democratic Convention. His speech took place in the middle of a corruption scandal which has led to criminal indictments of a number of Statehood Party politicians. For the details: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment081100a.shtml Outlook for September September promises to be a busy month on Capitol Hill. Fighting Executive order 13166 will be just the beginning. Bill Clinton is likely to announce his Commission on Puerto Rico status. Bilingual education is still pending in the Senate (Senator Joe Lieberman, the Democratic Vice Presidential nominee, is quite good on this issue and attempted to pass a package of reforms earlier this year). Governor Rossello has been bragging that everything the Statehooders want, they will get in the September House-Senate conferences, including a gift to the corrupt Statehood Party leaders of land worth $300 million (suitable for gambling casinos) in Vieques, Puerto Rico. Thanks to people like you, we have a chance to win. I appreciate your taking part in this list and I encourage you to urge others to take part as well. Please feel free to forward any alert you find valuable to your friends and neighbors. Administrative Note The English First E-mail Activist Network has greatly expanded of late. Please allow me to take a moment to formally explain to all the newcomers how this system works. English First E-mail Activists receive alerts on issues like official English, Puerto Rico statehood, bilingual education and other related issues. If you have joined this list because of your interest in one issue, such as bilingual education, I hope you will find the alerts on other issues informative and useful also. Many times, there will be a vote in Congress on 24 hours notice or less on one of these issues, particularly when we are dealing with amendments to appropriations bills. You can count on receiving timely alerts so that you can weigh in effectively with your elected officials. In addition, you can visit the English First Legislative Action and Resource Center to track important legislation, see how your Congressman has voted and even follow the 2000 Elections: http://congress.nw.dc.us/ef/index.pl _______________________ Prepared by the legislative staff of English First, 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 (703) 321-8818 (voice) http://www.englishfirst.org Membership on this e-mail list is free. To add or remove your name, e-mail jboulet@englishfirst.org If this e-mail was forwarded to you and you wish to receive future alerts directly, e-mail jboulet@englishfirst.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 00 12:12:56 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Interesting take on Carnivore (fwd) On Aug 22, chursey@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Huck, that was so good I wanted to send the entire text to the list. Pardon the bandwidth :) BTW, "Cringely" (not his real name) is a well respected expert in the computer industry. Cliff - ------------------------------- Meet Eater The FBI's Plan for Digital Wiretaps Raises More Questions Than It Answers By Robert X. Cringely There is this moment toward the otherwise forgettable end of "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier" when this alien creature patterned after the Wizard of Oz has even Spock convinced that it is God with a capital "G." They are just about to fire-up the Enterprise and take "God" back to Earth when Kirk -- probably hoping to avoid the military protocol involved with having a deity on the bridge -- asks a pivotal question: Why would God need a starship? Couldn't God just blink and instantly be in Times Square looking up at the NASDAQ sign, wondering why they cut windows into a video screen? This scene of the skeptical Kirk flashed in my mind this week as I read about Carnivore, the FBI's system for reading the e-mail of bad guys. Carnivore is a sealed box that is installed at the network operations center of an Internet Service Provider. It filters packets, finds e-mail going to and from identified criminals, and saves that e-mail for later decryption and analysis. What bothers the Internet Service Providers is they have no control over the Carnivore box, and no way of protecting the privacy of all the customers who aren't drug lords or escaped felons. What bothers the American Civil Liberties Union is the likelihood that individuals will not only lose their right to privacy, but lose it in a new and insidious way. What bothers me is the damned box. Why would the FBI need a box? Here's all the FBI will say about Carnivore. It sits on the network at the ISP, is PC-based, is "a kind of a sniffer," identifies and saves packets associated with suspected criminals, is installed under a court order, and doesn't itself act as a decryption device. There are supposed to be around 20 Carnivore boxes, and they have been in use since early this year. You don't need a sealed box to do any of these tasks, most of which are already being done for completely legal reasons right inside the router at every ISP. Routers look at every packet, determine what type of packet it is, where it is coming from and where it is going to, then the router delivers the packet to its intended destination. This is what routers do. Adding the Carnivore task is a simple matter of blind copying every packet to or from a bad guy to a third address at the J. Edgar Hoover FBI Building in Washington, DC. It's at most a few lines of code and requires no additional hardware. So why the box? The probable reason is because cops like to be in control. They LIKE boxes, like delivering them in unmarked cars, like the satisfying click of the RJ-45 connector as it slides home. Maybe they don't know that it could all be done without a box. Heck, it IS being done without a box all the time, and that's where the ACLU is missing the point. Sniffers have been running on networks ever since Harry Saal invented the device. Every packet at every ISP already goes through a sniffer at least part of the time. An ISP could do at any time what we fear the FBI might do with Carnivore read the e-mail and follow the surfing habits of every pretty blonde customer. Good ISPs, which is to say nearly all ISPs don't do this, of course, but it happens. So why doesn't the FBI just get a court order making the ISP do the dirty work? That's what the ISPs wonder, too, especially since that's how phone taps are handled. Cops don't really climb poles and attach alligator clips to hear phone calls. That's all done at the central office by telephone company technicians. The FBI, through the use of Carnivore, is trying to grab a little more power. And by doing it themselves with Carnivore, the FBI doesn't have to reveal the identity of the bad guy or extent to which it is using the box. Yeah, right. But wait, it gets worse. There are aspects of this case that the ACLU hasn't even considered. The Carnivore boxes are what's called "co-located" at the ISP. This isn't a rare thing. Many organizations like to control their own Web or mail servers and so co-locate them at an ISP. Colocation puts your server closer to the Internet backbone, eliminates typical T-1 line costs, allows the ISP to monitor and reboot the server, and usually comes with nifty things like redundant backbone connections and diesel generators in case the power goes out. Companies in the co-location business include well-known names like AT&T, IBM, and Intel. So there are tens of thousands -- maybe hundreds of thousands -- of computers already installed just like the FBI installs its Carnivore boxes. What keeps those co-located computers from being sniffers, too? Nothing at all. For $300 per month, you too could install your own Carnivore box at the ISP of your choice. Co-location facilities don't really care what you do with your co-located server as long as you keep paying the bill. More technically astute readers may take exception to this idea of private Carnivore boxes since there are ways to isolate ISP traffic and keep one box from seeing all the packets on the ISP network. But at most ISPs, THOSE TECHNIQUES AREN'T USED. This still leaves us wondering why the FBI insists on this program that isn't really necessary to do what they say they want to do. Beyond my overzealous cop theory, the most obvious possibility is that Carnivore is actually intended to do something else, some different task than the FBI is saying. Privacy advocates and the ACLU seem fixated on the idea that the Feds will use Carnivore to eavesdrop on non-criminals. It makes sense to worry about this, given past FBI anti-privacy campaigns like the Clipper Chip fiasco of several years ago that was supposed to have made it possible for the FBI to tap up to 10 million simultaneous telephone conversations, even though there are only an average of 1500 court-ordered phone taps each year in the U.S. But I have my own theory about Carnivore. From a network architecture standpoint, the best location for Carnivore is right after the ISP's router. This puts Carnivore in the path of every packet entering or leaving the ISP. It's also a major reason why ISPs might not want to install Carnivore boxes - -- it's the network's point of greatest vulnerability. In this position, Carnivore can act as a listening and recording device, OR IT CAN ACT AS A SWITCH. If we ever hear a proposal from the FBI in which it plans to install Carnivores at all 6000 ISPs in the U.S., we'll be giving the government the power to do something it can't do right now. Shut the Internet down. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Aug 00 12:15:10 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Anger as Army is given shoot-to-kill powers for Games (fwd) On Aug 22, Paul Miller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Anger as Army is given shoot-to-kill powers for Games FROM ROGER MAYNARD IN SYDNEY THE Australian Government is under mounting pressure to water down draconian new security laws that would give the military the right to shoot civilians on sight during the Olympic Games next month. Civil rights campaigners fear that the Government is using the threat of terrorism at the Games to introduce laws that could be used during strikes and legitimate protests. Under the new measures, soldiers could be used to perform duties normally undertaken by the police, such as the erection of barricades, the detention of suspects and the search and recapture of buildings, but it is the shoot-to-kill powers that have enraged Australian civil rights groups. [snip] http://www.the-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/2000/08/22/timfgnaus01001.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 00 10:36:28 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Good Reason to vote for George W Bush (fwd) I love the sound of shrill panic in the morning! :-) On Aug 24, R. Lunn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] There is a great opinion column in yesterday's LA Times on why we gun owners should vote for George W. Bush. It's titled, "Bush Redux Will Empower the NRA" and the author is none other than SARAH BRADY. The full article is at: http://www.latimes.com/news/comment/20000823/t000079168.html - ------- Wednesday, August 23, 2000 LA Times http://www.latimes.com/news/comment/20000823/t000079168.html Bush Redux Will Empower the NRA By SARAH BRADY When a million moms marched in Washington and 70 other cities in May, their platform was straightforward. They asked for safety training and licensing for handgun owners; the closing of loopholes that allow criminals, kids and the mentally ill to get guns; and tough enforcement of our gun laws. The mothers also said that if our current lawmakers won't enact these measures, they will elect people who will. For anyone who cares about the gun issue, the November election matters. We at Handgun Control played a big role in the march and we share its objectives. We remember well the policies of the previous administration, when President Bush vowed to veto the Brady bill and the National Rifle Assn. ran the show. The gun lobby looks forward to a second Bush administration. It was in a California meeting that NRA First Vice President Kayne Robinson declared that, if George W. Bush wins, "we'll have a presid ent . . . where we work out of their office." If Americans think that all that's at stake is the status quo, they're wrong. It's not just that we won't even be able to close the loopholes that allow the wrong people to get guns and make it difficult to enforce our gun laws. And it's not just tha t states with tough gun laws, like California, will continue to suffer violence from guns coming in from other states, for lack of a comprehensive federal system. It could get worse. Only seven years ago, there were no background checks in 32 states, there was no ban on Uzis and AK-47s, crime guns were not traced and there were almost 300,000 licensed gun dealers, many of them selling guns from their kitchen tables. That has all changed for the better. Today, no licensed dealer in any state can sell a gun without a background check, new AK-47s and Uzis have been banned, we have a comprehensive program tracing crime guns and there are now fewer than 85,000 gun dealers. However, what we've gained could disappear. The next president will determine the future of the federal assault weapons ban. That law is up for reauthorization in 2004. The assault weapons ban, which prohibits the manufacture and sale of Uzis, AK-47s and other military guns, along with magazines holding more than 10 bullets, has the overwhelming support of the American public and every major law enforcement organization. But the pro-gun House of Representatives actually voted to repeal the ban in 199 6, although the bill never made it to a Senate vote. A pro-gun president and Congress would allow the ban to end, paving the way for a new flood of assault weapons on American streets. Even Californians, with their new assault weapon ban, may find themsel ves posting sentries at their borders with Nevada and Arizona. Then there's the matter of the gun show loophole. Legislation to close it passed in the U.S. Senate in May only when Vice President Al Gore cast a tie-breaking vote. Since then, Congress has not acted to prevent felons from buying guns at gun shows w ithout background checks. George W. Bush said his choice for vice president would not have voted to close the gun show loophole. The choice of Dick Cheney, who voted to allow cop-killer bullets and plastic guns on our streets, leaves no doubt about that. The gun lobby wants to give a special break to gun show sellers, a 24-hour "instant check," so that if at the end of one day the system cannot clear a buyer, he or she gets the gun. The FBI tells us that, in one year, having 72 hours to check out gun -store purchasers prevented at least 17,000 felons, wife-abusers and other prohibited purchasers from getting guns. We want the same law that applies to licensed gun dealers to apply at gun shows--three business days to do a background check. There is also the issue of carrying concealed handguns in public places. Thanks to the gun lobby, in 29 states the police must grant permits to almost anyone who wants to carry concealed weapons in public places. In 1997, Gov. Bush actually signed a bill to allow carrying of handguns in churches, nursing homes, hospitals and amusement parks. That law also lets people from other states carry their handguns into Texas. The gun lobby wants to imitate the Texas law with a national concealed-carry system that would allow all permit-holders to carry their guns anywhere in the U.S. The states with the most liberal concealed-carry laws and the fewest safeguards would have the dubious honor of exporting their gun-toting citizens to other places. Californians, who steadfastly reject a hidden-handgun system, could be welcoming pistol-packing tourists to Disneyland and Dodgers games. When you vote, keep in mind that to change our nation's gun laws, we need lawmakers on our side. - - - - Sarah Brady, Wife of Former Reagan Press Secretary Jim Brady, Is the Chair of Handgun Control and the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence Copyright 2000 Los Angeles Times [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 00 10:37:48 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Thanks for nothing, Century Arms (fwd) On Aug 23, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Lindstedt" <73422.1726@compuserve.com> To: "Cyber Eagles" ; "Govtwatch" ; ; Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 12:27 PM Subject: [JBirch] Thanks for nothing, Century Arms > Can ANYONE shed more light, on the subject??? > > Start at the BOTTOM and READ UP. > > Semper fi; > Dave > > > oh brother! here is Century Arms' response to my question. who are they kidding? > what kind of an answer is this? they throw something out to the public like this > and then don't have anything to back it up? it sounds like they want to make some > quick sales to me. > > Thanks for nothing, Century Arms. > > Melissa > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Melissa > Sent: Friday, August 19, 2000 08:47 PM > Subject: Re: press release? > > http://www.centuryarms.com/press_release.htm > I read your press release. where did you get this information from? the > ATF site has no information on it. > > Sincerely, > Melissa > > ----- Their Response ----- > From: Support > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: press release? > > Sorry, > > Nothing is available to send you. > ======================================================================= > http://www.centuryarms.com/fflapp.htm > > To: support - Century Arms - support@centuryarms.com > http://www.centuryarms.com/back.htm > > Re: http://www.centuryarms.com/press_release.htm > > Your above reply is not satistfactory... > > You can RUN, but you cannot hide. > > We ask again for your press release to be explained in detail. > > KLV > apfn@apfn.org > =========================================================================== > Press Release: > >From : Century International Arms > Date : August 18, 2000 > Phone: 1-800-527-1252 > > On the day Al Gore accepted the democratic nomination for President, a legal > committee at B.A.T.F. effectively banned an entire class of previously importable > firearms. > > The following Century semi-auto rifles are affected and will no longer be available > once inventory is depleted: SAR-1, SAR-2, SAR-3, MISR, STG-58, Centurion 58, FAL, > Cetme and G3. > > In addition to the above, Garand rifles and parts for Garand rifles are no longer > importable. Once we are out of our inventory they will no longer be available in > the United States. > http://www.centuryarms.com/press_release.htm > ============================================================================ ======== > After searching the Federal Registry for a hour or so (BATF,firearms, > firearms importations,banned or prohibited firearms), I came up with > zelch,nadi,nothing. The BATF site gives the phone number for their F&E > Imports Division as 202-927-8320.Anybody wanta follow up with them? > James D. Stratton > CASPER SA > TRW > "Stratton, James (Contr)" -- strattoj@sdcl.lee.army.mil > ============================================================================ ======= > At Century International Arms, North America's largest importer/exporter of surplus > firearms and accessories, we have catered to the collector, the hunter and shooter > for over 40 years. > CENTURY INTERNATIONAL ARMS INC. > P.O. Box 714 > St. Albans, VT 05478 > Phone (800)527-1252 > Fax (802)527-0470 > READ AN URGENT PRESS RELEASE > http://www.centuryarms.com > > CENTURY INTERNATIONAL ARMS INC. > This is a reproduction of our Current Catalog DEPT. NET99 > Please take your time to browse all our items. > Curio & Relic = Firearm is purchasable by C&R 03 Class License > In order to receive FREE SHIPPING (Except Alaska and Hawaii), you must > mention Department NET99 with your order. > Order Toll Free: 1-800-527-1252 Fax: 561-998-1993 > http://www.centuryarms.com/199.htm > > Ballester Rigaud / Hafdasa Ballester Molina - > Century International Arms > http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/archives/199801/msg01540.html > > CENTURY INTERNATIONAL ARMS LTD. > v. > THE MINISTER OF NATIONAL REVENUE > Appeal No. AP-92-133 > http://www.citt.gc.ca/appeals/decision/ap92133e/ap92133e.htm > > US Army approves revolutionary infantry weapon > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1075995 > > Buy a Car, Get a Gun > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1075995 > > Arms Control and International Security > http://www.state.gov/www/global/arms/index.html > > "Arms Control in the 21st Century" > Remarks by Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright > on the 35th Anniversary of JFK's Historic Address on CTBT > http://www.clw.org/pub/clw/coalition/albr0610.htm > > Ambassador Thomas R. Pickering > Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs > Remarks before the opening session of the Conference Series on International > Affairs in the 21st Century > State Department's Dean Acheson Auditorium, Washington, DC, > http://www.state.gov/www/policy_remarks/971118_pickering_intlaffs.html > > CONGRESS SNEAKS NEW DOMESTIC-TERRORISM BILL THUR > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1075995 > > Proposed Civil Rights Amendments > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1075995 > > Gun Control > http://www.apfn.org/apfn/gun.htm > > Missing U.S. Officer Leaves Israel, Denies Spying > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000822/ts/israel_usa_dc_2.html > > The Ministry of Information for Kids! (HUH!) > http://www.liberzine.com/jerrybrito/000815govkids.htm > > It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything > else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly. > -Bertrand Russell > > > > The opinions expressed on this forum are those of the authors of the articles posted. The John Birch Society has no responsibility for anything that is posted on this forum. The OFFICIAL John Birch Society web page is a www.jbs.org "Look alike" clone pages, run by others, violate JBS policy. Visit The New American at www.thenewamerican.com > > "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." > > Edmund Burke 1729-1797 > > "Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who did not." > Ben Franklin [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #383 *************************