From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #392 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Wednesday, October 11 2000 Volume 02 : Number 392 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 7 Oct 00 22:30:34 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: [ALLY] IMPORTANT Online petition against Anti Gun Media Bias! (fwd) On Oct 7, Archibald Bard wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! Sign this Petition NOW!! (Please?) Archibald Bard Pro Libertate - For Freedom ICQ 83834746 YOUR VOTE FOR DEMO/REPUBS WILL ENDORSE THEIR POLICIES OF DEPRIVATION OF OUR FREEDOMS! BUCHANAN-Reform http://www.buchananreform.com/default.asp - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Potratz" Cc: "Bryan Potratz" Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 7:57 PM Subject: [ALLY] Online petition against Anti Gun Media Bias! > Hi, > > I think you may be interested to take a look at this: > > > Online petition: Report the news on Defensive Gun Uses > Addressed to: News Divisions CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, et al > Sponsored by: J. Neil Schulman > Web site: http://www.i-charity.net/bin/ptn/40/tfref/3436 > > Not only can you sign this petition online, but also > you may leave a comment and a link to your web site. > You can also read the comments of other people who > signed this petition. So far there are 5221 signatures. > > Here is a brief description of this petition: > > A petition to the news divisions of the major TV networks, > demanding that they cover the uses of firearms for defensive > purposes to reflect the criminological data showing that gun > defenses far outweigh the tragic uses of firearms. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > This message was sent to you by your friend: > Bryan Potratz > Your email address has NOT been placed on any mailing list. > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Online Petitions is a free service from I-Charity, Inc. > Copyright (c) 1999 i-Charity, Inc. All rights reserved. > http://www.i-charity.net > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > ================================================== > DISCLAIMER: > ================================================== > ** DISCLAIMER U.C.C.1-207 & COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance > with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this > message > is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who > have > expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for > nonprofit > research and educational purposes only. > > > ================================================== > Subscribe: ALLY-subscribe@egroups.com > Post Message: ALLY@egroups.com > List Owner: ALLY-owner@egroups.com > Webpage URL: http://www.egroups.com/group/ALLY > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ALLY-unsubscribe@egroups.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Oct 00 12:41:47 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: OT: Clinton jokes (fwd) On Oct 7, Rich Martin wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] One of the nation's largest soup manufacturers announced today that they will be stocking America's shelves this week with their newest Soup creation, Clinton Soup, that will honor one of the nation's most distinguished men. It consists primarily of a small weenie in hot water. ******************** Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to its line to honor Bill clinton. The Dodge Drafter will begin production in Canada this year. *************** When Clinton was asked what he thought about foreign affairs, he lied: Don't know, I've never had one... ****************** If you came across Bill Clinton struggling in a raging river and you had a choice between rescuing him or getting a Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph, what shutter speed would you use? ********************* Chelsea asked her dad, "Do all fairy tales begin with once upon a time?" Bill Clinton replied, "No, some begin with after I'm elected." ******************** Clinton's mother prayed fervently that Bill would grow up and be president. So far, half of her prayer has been answered. ***************** American Indians have nicknamed Bill Clinton as "Walking Eagle" because he is so full of crap he can't fly. ****************** Clinton only lacks three things to become one of America's finest leaders: Integrity, vision, and wisdom. ******************* Clinton is doing the work of three men: Larry, Curly, and Moe. *********************** clinton's revised judicial oath: I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know. *************************** Politicians and diapers have one thing in common: They should both be changed regularly, and for the same reason. ******************************************************* An airplane was about to crash, and there were five passengers left, but only 4 parachutes. The first passenger, Bill Clinton said, "I am President of the United States, and I have a great responsibility, being the leader of nearly 300 million people, and a superpower, etc." So he takes the first parachute, and jumps out of the plane. The second passenger, said, I`m Antoine Walker, one of the best NBA Basketball players, and the Boston Celtics need me, so I can`t afford to die." So he takes the second parachute, and leaves the plane. The third passenger, Hillary Clinton, said "I am the wife of the President of the United States, a soon to be New York Senator, and I am the smartest woman in the world." So she takes the third parachute and exits the plane. The fourth passenger, Pope John Paul the second, says to the fifth passenger, a 10 year old boy scout, "I am old and frail and I don`t have many years left, so as Christian gesture and a good deed, I will sacrifice my life and let you have the last parachute. The boy scout said, It`s Ok Sir, there`s a parachute left for you ...the world`s smartest woman took my backpack..." ****************************************************************** In 2031, President Clinton finishes his time on earth and approaches the Pearly Gates of Heaven... "And who might you be?" inquires St. Peter. "It's me, Bill Clinton, formerly the President of the United States and Leader of the Free World." "Oh...Mr....... President! What may I do for you?" asks St. Peter. "I'd like to come in," replies Clinton. "Sure," says the Saint. "But first, you have to confess your sins. What bad things have you done in your life?" Clinton bites his lip and answers, "Well, I tried marijuana, but you can't call it 'dope-smoking' because I didn't inhale. There were inappropriate extramarital relationships, but you can't call it 'adultery' because I didn't have full 'sexual relations.' And I made some statements that were misleading, but legally accurate, but you can't call it 'bearing false witness' because, as far as I know, it didn't meet the legal standard of perjury." With that, St. Peter consults the Book of Life briefly, and declares, "OK, here's the deal. We'll send you somewhere hot, but we won't call it 'Hell.' You'll be there indefinitely, but we won't call it 'eternity.' And when you enter, you don't have to abandon all hope, just hold your breath waiting for it to freeze over." ****************************** Best anagram of clinton's era: PRESIDENT CLINTON OF THE USA It can be rearranged (with no letters left over, and using each letter once) into: TO COPULATE HE FINDS INTERNS ************************************** World's Thinnest Books: 15. My Plan to Find the Real Killers - by O. J. Simpson 14. Things I Would Not Do for Money - by Dennis Rodman 13. The Wild Years - by Al Gore 12. Amelia Earhart's Guide to the Pacific Ocean 11. America's Most Popular Lawyers 10. Detroit - a Travel Guide 9. Dr. Kevorkian's Collection of Motivational Speeches 8. Everything Men Know about Women 7. Everything Women Know about Men 6. George Foreman's Big Book of Baby Names 5. To All the Men I've Loved Before - by Ellen Degeneres 4. Mike Tyson's Guide to Dating Etiquette 3. Spotted Owl Recipes - by the EPA 2. The Amish Phone Directory And the World's Number One Shortest Book... 1. My Book of Ethics - by Bill Clinton ****************************************************** Al (No Controlling Legal Authority) Gore was brainstorming his campaign strategy with Bill Clinton at a Georgetown restaurant when the waitress came to take their order. Gore ordered a salad and water, and Bill Clinton studied the menu for a second. Then he looked up, smiled, and said, "I'll have a quickie." The waitress was offended. "Mr. President," "Considering all that your wife went through last year with Monica Lewinsky, I think that that's in particularly poor taste." she said as she stomped away to cry. Al Gore leaned over to Clinton, looked at his menu, and whispered, "Uh...Bill, I think that's pronounced quiche... ************************************************************ The center for Disease Control in Atlanta, Georgia, announced today the President has proven that you CAN get sex from Aides! *********************************** Jennifer Flowers was asked if her relationship with Bill Clinton was anything like the Monica Lewinski affair. She supposedly replied, "Close -- but no cigar." ******************************************* The FBI has coined a technical term for the stains found on Monica's dress: "Presidue" ******************************* President Clinton now recruits interns from only four colleges: Moorhead, Oral Roberts, Ball State, and Brigham Young. *************************************** Did you know that Bill Clinton is considering changing the democratic seal from a donkey to a condom, because it represents inflation, halts production, and gives you a false sense of security while you are being screwed. ***************************************** Washington has come up with a solution for the Clinton situation. They added the 11th commandment: "Thou shall not put thy rod in thy staff." ****************************************** Bill Gates is in New York showing all the computer executives how well Windows 98 works. But the computer executives say that Windows 98 goes down so much they are thinking about renaming it Monica 98. ********************************** It seems the big new game to play at the White House is "Swallow the Leader!" *********************************** Arkansas is very proud of Bill Clinton. All these women coming forward and not one of them is his sister! ********************************************** Hillary Clinton goes to a fortune teller who says, "Prepare to be a widow. Your husband will soon suffer a violent death." Hillary takes a deep breath and asks, "Will I be acquitted?" *********************************************** One night, Bill Clinton was awakened by George Washington's ghost in the White House. Clinton saw him and asked, "George, what is the best thing I could do to help the country?" "Set an honest and honorable example," advised George.. The next night, the ghost of Thomas Jefferson moved through the dark bedrooms "Tom, what is the best thing I could do to help the country?" Clinton asked. "Cut taxes and reduce the size of government", advised Tom. Clinton didn't sleep well the next night, and saw another figure moving in the shadows. It was Abraham Lincoln's ghost. "Abe, what is the best thing I could do to help the country?" Clinton asked.. "Go to the theater," [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 00 07:54:12 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FROM A PISTOL AUSTRALIA MAGAZINE "FOCUS"/ Luke in Oz (fwd) On Oct 08, Lukasz Electronics wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] 2000 years ago ... A Current Problem The Imperial Chancellor, Kung-sun Hung, petitioned the Emperor, saying: "The people should not be allowed to possess bows or crossbows. When 10 bandits bend their crossbows to the full, a hundred officials dare not advance.... If the people are not permitted to posses bows or crossbows, then thieves and robbers will carry only short weapons, and when 2 groups carrying short weapons meet, the larger number will be victorious.... In your subject's humble opinion, it will be advantageous to forbid the people to carry bows or crossbows." When the Emperor sent down this suggestion to his council for discussion an elder, Shou-wang, replied, saying: "Your subject has heard that when the ancients made the 5 kinds of weapons, it was not for the purpose of killing each other, but to prevent tyranny and to punish evil. When people lived in peace, these weapons were used to control the fierce animals and to be prepared against emergencies. If there were military affairs, then these weapons were used to set up defence and to form battle arrays.... "Your subject has heard that the Sage Rulers brought the people together and practiced shooting to demonstrate instructions, and he has never heard any prohibition on bows or arrows." "Furthermore, the cause for prohibition is that the bandits use them to attack and rob. The crime of attacking and robbing, is subject to death; yet that they have not been stopped is because the great law-breakers do not care, indeed, to avoid severe punishment. Should the suggested prohibition he enforced, your subject fears that wicked persons will still carry weapons and the officials will not be able to stop them from carrying them, and that the good people who keep their weapons for self-defence will encounter the prohibition of the law. This will make the power of robbers exclusive and take away the means of defence from the people ..." When the petition was presented, the Son of Heaven questioned the Imperial Chancellor, Hung, who promptly withdrew his suggestion. - - from the History of the Han Dynasty, 124 B.C. This documented account was sent to the NRA by member John Kirby who came across it while doing research for the Far East Department of the University of Washington. It is a striking example of the fact that the right to preserve the basic right of the people to bear arms changes little with the passage of the centuries. Reprinted from the January, 1959 American Rifleman [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 00 15:47:33 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: {slick-d} It's Time to Shoot the Bastards (fwd) On Oct 9, Steve Moser wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Government Theft It's Time to Shoot the Bastards by Vin Suprynowicz He said, 'If you come on my land, I'll kill you' For years, Garry Watson, 49, of little Bunker, Mo., (population 390) had been squabbling with town officials over the sewage line easement which ran across his property to the adjoining, town-operated sewage lagoon. Residents say officials grew dissatisfied with their existing easement, and announced they were going to excavate a new sewer line across the landowner's property. Capt. Chris Ricks of the Missouri Highway Patrol reports Watson's wife, Linda, was served with "easement right-of-way papers" on Sept. 6. She gave the papers to Watson when he got home at 5 a.m. the next morning from his job at a car battery recycling plant northeast of Bunker. Watson reportedly went to bed for a short time, but arose about 7 a.m. when the city work crew arrived. "He told them 'If you come on my land, I'll kill you,' " Bunker resident Gregg Tivnan told me last week. "Then the three city workers showed up with a backhoe, plus a police officer. They'd sent along a cop in a cop car to guard the workers, because they were afraid there might be trouble. Watson had gone inside for a little while, but then he came out and pulled his SKS (semi-automatic rifle) out of his truck, steadied it against the truck, and he shot them." Killed in the Sept. 7 incident, from a range of about 85 yards, were Rocky B. Gordon, 34, a city maintenance man, and David Thompson, 44, an alderman who supervised public works. City maintenance worker Delmar Eugene Dunn, 51, remained in serious but stable condition the following weekend. Bunker police Officer Steve Stoops, who drove away from the scene after being shot, was treated and released from a hospital for a bullet wound to his arm and a graze to the neck. Watson thereupon kissed his wife goodbye, took his rifle, and disappeared into the woods, where his body was found two days later -- dead of an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound. Following such incidents, the local papers are inevitably filled with well-meaning but mawkish doggerel about the townsfolk "pulling together" and attempting to "heal" following the "tragedy." There are endless expressions of frustration, pretending to ask how such an otherwise peaceful member of the community could "just snap like that." In fact, the supposedly elusive explanation is right before our eyes. "He was pushed," Clarence Rosemann -- manager of the local Bunker convenience store, who'd done some excavation work for Watson -- told the big-city reporters from St. Louis. Another area resident, who didn't want to be identified, told the visiting newsmen, "Most people are understanding why Garry Watson was upset. They are wishing he didn't do it, but they are understanding why he did it." You see, to most of the people who work in government and the media these days -- especially in our urban centers -- "private property" is a concept out of some dusty, 18th century history book. Oh, sure, "property owners" are allowed to live on their land, so long as they pay rent to the state in the form of "property taxes." But an actual "right" to be let alone on our land to do whatever we please -- always providing we don't actually endanger the lives or health of our neighbors? Heavens! If we allowed that, how would we enforce all our wonderful new "environmental protection" laws, or the "zoning codes," or the laws against growing hemp or tobacco or distilling whisky without a license, or any of the endless parade of other malum prohibitum decrees which have multiplied like swarms of flying ants in this nation over the past 87 years? What does it mean to say we have any "rights" or "freedoms" at all, if we cannot peacefully enjoy that property which we buy with the fruits of our labors? In his 1985 book Takings, University of Chicago Law Professor Richard Epstein wrote that, "Private property gives the right to exclude others without the need for any justification. Indeed, it is the ability to act at will and without need for justification within some domain which is the essence of freedom, be it of speech or of property." "Unfortunately," replies James Bovard, author of the book Freedom in Chains: The Rise of the State and the Demise of the Citizen, "federal law enforcement agents and prosecutors are making private property much less private. ... Park Forest, Ill. in 1994 enacted an ordinance that authorizes warrantless searches of every single-family rental home by a city inspector or police officer, who are authorized to invade rental units 'at all reasonable times.' ... Federal Judge Joan Gottschall struck down the searches as unconstitutional in 1998, but her decision will have little or no effect on the numerous other localities that authorize similar invasions of privacy." We are now involved in a war in this nation, a last-ditch struggle in which the other side contends only the king's men are allowed to use force or the threat of force to push their way in wherever they please, and that any peasant finally rendered so desperate as to employ the same kind of force routinely employed by our oppressors must surely be a "lone madman" who "snapped for no reason." No, we should not and do not endorse or approve the individual choices of folks like Garry Watson. But we are still obliged to honor their memories and the personal courage it takes to fight and die for a principle, even as we lament both their desperate, misguided actions ... and the systematic erosion of our liberties which gave them rise. "Just because one government agent has a piece of paper that's signed by another government agent, does that mean there's no more right to private property?" asks my friend Gregg Tivnan. "If statists fear popular resistance," replies Jim Bovard, "perhaps government should violate fewer rights." - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, and editor of Financial Privacy Report (subscribe by calling Norm at 612-895-8757.) His book, Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998, is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. The Libertarian, October 8, 2000 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Oct 00 15:44:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: {slick-d} More On Tokyo Rosie. (fwd) On Oct 9, Bruce Chesley wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FY High Tens. Bruce Chesley Truth is a terrible cross to bear. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.". Thomas Paine Treason for $$$: ALL "pro 2A" orgs. - --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "M.O.M." Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:08:18 -0600 MOM says Read in bold print, you all are making head way but need more pressure, 2002 is not soon enough. Mike WWW.ALAMANCEIND.COM Matt Maggio, Publisher & Editor Email Rosie O'Donnell is quitting television - something she herself announced last Wednesday in the New York Daily News. Rosie - whose ratings are evidently low enough that one of Cleveland's three main television stations is dumping her for a courtroom show and whose ratings evidently have long been dropping, as evidenced in a 1998 New York Post article whose title asked if the "bloom was off the Rosie" after her show's ratings had dropped since its start two years earlier - wants to go fulltime into work placing adoptive kids. In last Wednesday's New York Daily News, Rosie said that while she enjoys doing the show, she's "sick of all the crap that comes with it" - probably a reference to the boycotts that have haunted her ever since she dissed gun owners on-air. Not only did it take only seven months for a leaderless "Rosiecott" to force K-Mart to dump her - but similar "Rosiecotts" have also been organized by gun owners against the national sponsors of her show ever since K-Mart dumped her. No merchant or manufacturer will pay television's high ad rates to incur a boycott by any substantial group - and Rosie's phrase "all the crap" may well just be a code phrase for an inability for her show to get advertisers anymore. She plans on quitting in 2002 - when her present contract ends. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 00 21:32:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Confession of a Born-Again 2nd Amendment Supporter (fwd) On Oct 10, charmuth@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Forgive me, for I have sinned. Date: 10/8/2000 6:25:00 PM An About Face After Being Saved by a Gun Owner I am one of those people who you loathe. One of those invisible people who come into your living room without asking your permission. One of those people who follow you while you shop, and make it harder for you to make legal purchases. One of those people who try and tell you how to raise your children, as if you don't know how. One of those who gives ratings to stations that promote our demise as a free nation. I am your enemy. Or at least I was. I followed it all, all of the propaganda, all of the hoopla. Believed it too. Believed that leaving my house was more dangerous than being in a war. At any given moment one of you evil gun owners would open fire on me. I saw the NRA stickers, the Gun owners of America stickers on the cars that passed, and I thought you were all fools. I did everything in my power financially to try and help more laws pass that would prevent you from owning guns. I wholeheartedly believed that only the Police, and Military should have guns. Every time I heard of a gang shooting, or other criminal act committed with a gun, I honestly believed that if we could curtail the legal sale of guns, we could make a difference. Boy was I wrong. I have children, three actually, and to me the only thing more important than raising them properly, was seeing that they aren't hurt in anyway. I wanted to ban guns, save my children, save all children. No child should have to be part of any kind of death, especially the kind that involves being shot. I gave money to all of the anti gun organizations I could think of, went to the "Million" Mom March, even looked at Rosie when she spoke, and actually admire her. Brought the kids as well, and even yelled some not so nice things to those other marchers. I'm sure some of you know who I refer to. I was on my way back from the march, on my way back to Connecticut, when I stopped off of the highway at a rest stop by one of those McDonalds they have off I-95. By this time I had dropped off two of my kids with their father, and only had my little one with me. I went into the restroom with her, and on my way out noticed two men hanging out by my car. There were only two other cars in the lot at the time that were anywhere near my vehicle. I immediately felt threatened by their demeanor, but continued on to my car. The smaller of the two approached me with a knife as I was about to open the door to put my child in her car seat. He yelled at me to get in the back of the car, they were taking me for a little ride. I obviously told them to just take my keys, they could have the car, but they insisted I get in the back. I then heard a man yelling something I don't quite recall, and saw him running towards me with a gun in his hand. The two men vanished into their car, and sped away. I stood there frozen in time, and by the time the gentleman with the gun got to me I just broke down and cried. To make a long story short, you were all right, and I'm sorry. This man with a gun saved me, and I just keep thinking if I had gotten my wish and guns were banned, there is no telling where I'd be, and what would've happened to my daughter. The only regret I have is not getting the man's phone number who saved my life. I thanked him over and over again, and told him that he saved me, but he calmly said to me something I'd never forget. He said "That's what people like me are here for Ms., and I'm happy to have been able to help." "That's what people like me are here for," those words keep on running through my head everyday. Maybe this gentleman by some chance is part of your group, and will read my message. If he does I would just like to say something to him, and to everyone else reading this note. Thank you for saving my life, and to the rest of you thank you for fighting for this man's right to protect me and my child. Tell him for me that I will no longer be part of the group who invades his home, and tries to tell him how to store his guns. Tell him I will never be part of any group who tries to make it impossible for him to buy his tool he used to save me. And tell him I will never again tell him how to raise his children properly, because obviously I was oblivious to the fact that responsible people such as him know how to raise their children better than I do. I did rectify that situation the other day; I bought a shotgun for home protection, and am in the process of getting my concealed permit. Next time I will be ready to defend myself, or others for that matter. Some of my friends think I'm crazy, but they try their best to understand. I just tell them that as soon as their child's life is put in jeopardy by some criminal with a weapon that they will understand, but until then don't tell me how to live my life. I've lost some friends, but surprisingly most of them understand. If not for this man I could very easily have been killed or raped, and my child could've been taken from me, so once more I need to say thanks for saving me, and with all sincerity to the rest of you, forgive me, for I have sinned. - - Written By: Bryan Clifford (for a dear friend) http://www.keepandbeararms.com/newsarchives/XcNewsPlus.asp?cmd=view&articlei d=680 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 00 12:46:04 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Warrantless Searches...Liberties Lost (fwd) On Oct 11, BOBWORN@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] AMENDMENT THE FOURTH - CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." From: American Patriot Friends Network Subject: Alert: Warrantless secret searches on the verge of being approved! Alert: Warrantless secret searches on the verge of being approved! http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb1075995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 06:05:17 EDT From: WacoTragedyNews@aol.com The Fugitive Apprehension Act is copied below this piece from Dave Kopel ~Sharlene~ http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39dede1511bd.htm Urgent Alert: Congress of verge of approving warrantless secret searches By Dave Kopel The Independence Institute http://i2i.org [Advance draft of article scheduled for publication in National Review Online, http://www.nationalreview.com] Please feel free to forward No person's liberty is safe in the last week of Congress-traditionally a time when civil liberties invasions such as wire-tapping, gun prohibitions, and the like are snuck through in the final frantic hours, with no opportunity for public opposition. This Congress is no exception. As soon as Tuesday, the House may vote on a bill, which has already passed the Senate, to drastically expand government power to conduct secret searches without judicial approval. The bill in question comes from Senators Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) and Orrin Hatch (R-Utah). It is S. 2516, "The Fugitive Apprehension Act." The bill allows the government to obtain any kind of document it wants, without first getting a search warrant or a subpoena from a court. These documents include any written or electronic document possessed by an individual-or possessed by a third party (such as bank records, credit card records, telephone records, school records, or an Internet Service Provider?s customer records). In other words, the bill guts the Fourth Amendment requirement that private documents should be searched only after a court issues a warrant based upon probable cause. Even worse, section 3(g) of the bill allows these document seizures to be conducted secretly, so that the individual might never be told that his bank records, Internet records, or other documents have been searched by the government. The bill currently applies to apprehension of "fugitives," which include people who have been charged (not convicted) of a crime, at both the federal or state level. In other words, if your wife?s second cousin never showed up in court for his drunk driving trial, the government could look at your bank records, telephone records, Internet records, and every other document about you-without a court order, and without ever telling you. There is no law enforcement need for this provision. Under the All Writs Act, a United States Attorney can go to court, and present reasons why he needs access to private records. If the court agrees (it almost always does), the court issues a subpoena to obtain the records. This system is working well, and, notably, the United States Attorneys are not asking to change the law. Even so, there is a very strong chance that S. 2516 will become law next week, unless Congress hears of widespread opposition. The American Civil Liberties Union, which is leading the fight against the bill on Capitol Hill, is urging to citizens to contact their Representatives and their Senators over the weekend and on Tuesday morning, in every way possible: at town hall meetings, by calling DC and local Congressional offices, and by sending e-mail or faxes. Because House Speaker Dennis Hastert has great discretion over whether to bring S. 2516 to the House floor, King urges people all over the U.S. to call his office. The main Congressman opposing S. 2516 is Representative Bob Barr (R-Georgia). The very conservative Barr is a former United States Attorney, and one of the most prominent "law and order" Republicans in Congress-as shown by his leadership in the effort to impeach President Clinton. While the ACLU is generally considered liberal, and Barr conservative, both agree that protecting the Fourth Amendment transcends party or ideology. Should S. 2516 become law, it would set a precedent for warrantless, secret searches on other subjects-including firearms laws. This is one reason why Barr, one of the staunchest Second Amendment defenders in Congress, is opposing the bill. There is also a possibility that S. 2516 may be snuck through as an amendment to HR 3048, "The Presidential Protection Act of 2000." Of course S. 2516 has nothing to do with Presidential Protection. Instead, the bill is about constitutional destruction. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Take action right now To Email every member of Congress in both the House and the Senate use the KeepAndBearArms.Com automailer. http://www.keepandbeararms.com/takeaction/automailers/us_congress.asp To send one single fax to all congress members for whom we have an email address, draft your fax and send it to (515) 678-2246. Your fax will be sent by the KeepAndBearArms.Com Powerfax system to over 1,000 fax machines, covering faxes at D.C. offices and home state offices of every congress member for whom we have fax numbers. You do not have to be a member of KeepAndBearArms.Com to take advantage of their Powerfax or Automailer services. So there are no excuses, go light 'em up! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ S 2516 ES 106th CONGRESS 2d Session S. 2516 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ AN ACT To fund task forces to locate and apprehend fugitives in Federal, State, and local felony criminal cases and give administrative subpoena authority to the United States Marshals Service. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Fugitive Apprehension Act of 2000'. SEC. 2. FUGITIVE APPREHENSION TASK FORCES. (a) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall, upon consultation with appropriate Department of Justice and Department of the Treasury law enforcement components, establish permanent Fugitive Apprehension Task Forces consisting of Federal, State, and local law enforcement authorities in designated regions of the United States, to be directed and coordinated by the United States Marshals Service, for the purpose of locating and apprehending fugitives. (b) AUTHORIZATION OF APPROPRIATIONS- There are authorized to be appropriated to the United States Marshal Service to carry out the provisions of this section $30,000,000 for the fiscal year 2001, $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2002, and $5,000,000 for fiscal year 2003. (c) OTHER EXISTING APPLICABLE LAW- Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit any existing authority under any other provision of Federal or State law for law enforcement agencies to locate or apprehend fugitives through task forces or any other means. SEC. 3. ADMINISTRATIVE SUBPOENAS TO APPREHEND FUGITIVES. (a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 49 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `Sec. 1075. Administrative subpoenas to apprehend fugitives `(a) DEFINITIONS- In this section: `(1) FUGITIVE- The term `fugitive' means a person who-- `(A) having been accused by complaint, information, or indictment under Federal law or having been convicted of committing a felony under Federal law, flees or attempts to flee from or evades or attempts to evade the jurisdiction of the court with jurisdiction over the felony; `(B) having been accused by complaint, information, or indictment under State law or having been convicted of committing a felony under State law, flees or attempts to flee from, or evades or attempts to evade, the jurisdiction of the court with jurisdiction over the felony; `(C) escapes from lawful Federal or State custody after having been accused by complaint, information, or indictment or having been convicted of committing a felony under Federal or State law; or `(D) is in violation of subparagraph (2) or (3) of the first undesignated paragraph of section 1073. `(2) INVESTIGATION- The term `investigation' means, with respect to a State fugitive described in subparagraph (B) or (C) of paragraph (1), an investigation in which there is reason to believe that the fugitive fled from or evaded, or attempted to flee from or evade, the jurisdiction of the court, or escaped from custody, in or affecting, or using any facility of, interstate or foreign commerce, or as to whom an appropriate law enforcement officer or official of a State or political subdivision has requested the Attorney General to assist in the investigation, and the Attorney General finds that the particular circumstances of the request give rise to a Federal interest sufficient for the exercise of Federal jurisdiction pursuant to section 1075. `(3) STATE- The term `State' means a State of the United States, the District of Colombia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States. `(b) SUBPOENAS AND WITNESSES- `(1) SUBPOENAS- In any investigation with respect to the apprehension of a fugitive, the Attorney General may subpoena witnesses for the purpose of the production of any records (including books, papers, documents, electronic data, and other tangible and intangible items that constitute or contain evidence) that the Attorney General finds, based on articulable facts, are relevant to discerning the whereabouts of the fugitive. A subpoena under this subsection shall describe the records or items required to be produced and prescribe a return date within a reasonable period of time within which the records or items can be assembled and made available. `(2) WITNESSES- The attendance of witnesses and the production of records may be required from any place in any State or other place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States at any designated place where the witness was served with a subpoena, except that a witness shall not be required to appear more than 500 miles distant from the place where the witness was served. Witnesses summoned under this section shall be paid the same fees and mileage that are paid witnesses in the courts of the United States. `(c) SERVICE- `(1) AGENT- A subpoena issued under this section may be served by any person designated in the subpoena as the agent of service. `(2) NATURAL PERSON- Service upon a natural person may be made by personal delivery of the subpoena to that person or by certified mail with return receipt requested. `(3) CORPORATION- Service may be made upon a domestic or foreign corporation or upon a partnership or other unincorporated association that is subject to suit under a common name, by delivering the subpoena to an officer, to a managing or general agent, or to any other agent authorized by appointment or by law to receive service of process. `(4) AFFIDAVIT- The affidavit of the person serving the subpoena entered on a true copy thereof by the person serving it shall be proof of service. `(d) CONTUMACY OR REFUSAL- `(1) IN GENERAL- In the case of the contumacy by or refusal to obey a subpoena issued to any person, the Attorney General may invoke the aid of any court of the United States within the jurisdiction of which the investigation is carried on or of which the subpoenaed person is an inhabitant, or in which he carries on business or may be found, to compel compliance with the subpoena. The court may issue an order requiring the subpoenaed person to appear before the Attorney General to produce records if so ordered. `(2) CONTEMPT- Any failure to obey the order of the court may be punishable by the court as contempt thereof. `(3) PROCESS- All process in any case to enforce an order under this subsection may be served in any judicial district in which the person may be found. `(4) RIGHTS OF SUBPOENA RECIPIENT- Not later than 20 days after the date of service of an administrative subpoena under this section upon any person, or at any time before the return date specified in the subpoena, whichever period is shorter, such person may file, in the district within which such person resides, is found, or transacts business, a petition to modify or quash such subpoena on grounds that-- `(A) the terms of the subpoena are unreasonable or unnecessary; `(B) the subpoena fails to meet the requirements of this section; or `(C) the subpoena violates the constitutional rights or any other legal rights or privilege of the subpoenaed party. `(e) REPORT- `(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall report in January of each year to the Committees on the Judiciary of the Senate and the House of Representatives on the number of administrative subpoenas issued under this section, whether each matter involved a fugitive from Federal or State charges, and identification of the agency or component of the Department of Justice issuing the subpoena and imposing the charges. `(2) EXPIRATION- The reporting requirement of this subsection shall terminate in 3 years after the date of enactment of this section. `(f) GUIDELINES- `(1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall issue guidelines governing the issuance of administrative subpoenas pursuant to this section. `(2) REVIEW- The guidelines required by this subsection shall mandate that administrative subpoenas may be issued only after review and approval of senior supervisory personnel within the respective investigative agency or component of the Department of Justice. `(g) DELAYED NOTICE- `(1) IN GENERAL- Where an administrative subpoena is issued under this section to a provider of electronic communication service (as defined in section 2510 of this title) or remote computing service (as defined in section 2711 of this title), the Attorney General may-- `(A) in accordance with section 2705(a) of this title, delay notification to the subscriber or customer to whom the record pertains; and `(B) apply to a court, in accordance with section 2705(b) of this title, for an order commanding the provider of electronic communication service or remote computing service not to notify any other person of the existence of the subpoena or court order. `(2) SUBPOENAS FOR FINANCIAL RECORDS- If a subpoena is issued under this section to a financial institution for financial records of any customer of such institution, the Attorney General may apply to a court under section 1109 of the Right to Financial Privacy Act of 1978 (12 U.S.C. 3409) for an order to delay customer notice as otherwise required. `(3) NONDISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS- `(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in paragraphs (1) and (2), the Attorney General may apply to a court for an order requiring the party to whom an administrative subpoena is directed to refrain from notifying any other party of the existence of the subpoena or court order for such period as the court deems appropriate. `(B) ORDER- The court shall enter such order if it determines that there is reason to believe that notification of the existence of the administrative subpoena will result in-- `(i) endangering the life or physical safety of an individual; `(ii) flight from prosecution; `(iii) destruction of or tampering with evidence; `(iv) intimidation of potential witnesses; or `(v) otherwise seriously jeopardizing an investigation or undue delay of a trial. `(h) IMMUNITY FROM CIVIL LIABILITY- Any person, including officers, agents, and employees, who in good faith produce the records or items requested in a subpoena shall not be liable in any court of any State or the United States to any customer or other person for such production or for nondisclosure of that production to the customer, in compliance with the terms of a court order for nondisclosure.'. (b) TECHNICAL AND CONFORMING AMENDMENT- The analysis for chapter 49 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following: `1075. Administrative subpoenas to apprehend fugitives.'. SEC. 4. STUDY AND REPORT OF THE USE OF ADMINISTRATIVE SUBPOENAS. Not later than December 31, 2001, the Attorney General, in consultation with the Secretary of the Treasury, shall complete a study on the use of administrative subpoena power by executive branch agencies or entities and shall report the findings to the Committees on the Judiciary of the Senate and the House of Representatives. Such report shall include-- (1) a description of the sources of administrative subpoena power and the scope of such subpoena power within executive branch agencies; (2) a description of applicable subpoena enforcement mechanisms; (3) a description of any notification provisions and any other provisions relating to safeguarding privacy interests; (4) a description of the standards governing the issuance of administrative subpoenas; and (5) recommendations from the Attorney General regarding necessary steps to ensure that administrative subpoena power is used and enforced consistently and fairly by executive branch agencies. Passed the Senate July 26, 2000. Attest: Secretary. 106th CONGRESS 2d Session S. 2516 AN ACT To fund task forces to locate and apprehend fugitives in Federal, State, and local felony criminal cases and give administrative subpoena authority to the United States Marshals Service. U.S. Department of Justice United States Marshals Service America's Oldest Federal Law Enforcement Agency The First Accredited Federal Law Enforcement Agency http://www.usgov.com/cgi-bin/dblink/jump.cgi?ID=573 ================================================== TO GET ANY CONGRESSIONAL NUMBER: Dial 1-800-648-3516 or (202) 224-3121 ====================================================== U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. http://caselaw.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment04/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for what the Bible says about Christians and Civil Government? Pastor John Weaver covers this and much more. Audio tapes are only $4.00 each. Just click: http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/johnweaver.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #392 *************************