From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #417 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Monday, January 22 2001 Volume 02 : Number 417 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Jan 01 17:18:40 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE (fwd) On Jan 20, Donald Blackburn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE > > > The Electoral College process was developed to give > the rural areas and the > city areas equal status in the selection of the top > position in our > government. Today it still remains a question of > whether the rural areas of > the nation continue to elect the president and vice > president or do we > change the Electoral College process and provide a > process for the large > metropolitan areas to elect the president by the > popular vote? > > Consider this, if a popular person from a large > metropolitan area such as > Hillary Clinton for example, decided to run for the > United States Senate in > New York because she loves the people of that state > and wanted to represent > them in Washington D.C. > In one of her first public statements after winning > the election (with > nearly 60% of the vote), she promised to work for > the abolition of the > Electoral College. > Now look at a political possibility: > In an election year in the 'not too distant future', > when Hillary is > nominated as the Democrats' Presidential Candidate, > she begins her campaign > by reminding the voters of New York that she kept > her promise and personally > takes responsibility for the newly ratified > constitution amendment > abolishing the Electoral College. She then does the > vast majority of her > campaigning in New York; rarely venturing out to any > other state. > The November General Election is held, and Senator > Clinton LOSES 49 STATES > by an average of 60,000 votes per state... BUT, she > WINS JUST ONE STATE... > New York, with 73% of the 6,300,000 votes cast > there. The Republican > candidate receives 24% and all others 3%. > The result? She has received the majority of > popular votes by a margin of > less than 200,000 votes nationwide... after LOSING > ALL BUT ONE STATE. > Hillary Rodham Clinton is the new President of The > United States of America. > STILL want to get rid of the Electoral College? > Think about it! > Scary--huh!! > Here are a few interesting statistics from our > breakdown map of > counties won by George Bush and Albert Gore > ( http://www.federalist.com/e2000.html) as compiled > by law professor > Joseph Olson. The last item is, perhaps, the most > telling. > > Counties won by Bush: 2,434 > Counties won by Gore: 677 > > > > > Population of counties won by Bush: 143 million > Population of counties won by Gore: 127 million > > Square miles of country won by Bush: 2,427,000 > Square miles of country won by Gore: 580,000 > > States won by Bush: 29 > States won by Gore: 19 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 01 09:51:15 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: New Toys (fwd) On Jan 21, Mark Aiello wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Monday, December 4, 2000 Go to: S M T W T F S The FBI put a keystroke-logging device on the computer of the gambling suspect. A challenge may create new law. By George Anastasia INQUIRER STAFF WRITER A federal gambling case against the son of jailed mob boss Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo could instead be the first legal test of cutting-edge cyber-surveillance technol- ogy that some critics of federal investigations say borders on Big Brotherism. Court records in the pending case indicate that Nicode- mo S. Scarfo, 35, was the target of a sophisticated sur- veillance tool - a so-called keystroke-logging device - that allowed the FBI to reproduce every stroke he entered on a computer on which gambling records allegedly were stored. Scarfo subsequently was charged with supervising a mob- linked bookmaking and loan-sharking operation in North Jersey. Questions about the FBI's spying methods in the Scarfo investigation surface at a time when defense lawyers and civil libertarians have begun to ask how far federal author- ities should be permitted to go with electronic surveil- lance. Critics say that technology is evolving faster than the laws governing privacy rights and that federal investi- gators, emboldened by the capabilities of their cyber-tools, frequently disregard constitutional guarantees. "Anything he typed on that keyboard - a letter to his lawyer, personal or medical records, legitimate business records - they got it all," said Donald Manno, Scarfo's longtime lawyer. "That's scary. It's dangerous," he said. Said Alan Hart, a former IRS agent and private investi- gator who teaches criminal justice at Burlington County College: "This doesn't 'smack' of Big Brotherism, it hits you over the head like a baseball bat." Hart, after hearing a description of the capabilities of a keystroke recorder, called it "Orwellian." "It's another example of the FBI taking technology to its limits and possibly over the line of what's legally permissible," said David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a Washington nonprof- it research group that focuses on Internet- and computer- privacy issues. The FBI would not comment. Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald D. Wigler, the prosecutor in the case, said only that he expected the FBI's surveillance methods would be challenged in a pretrial defense motion and that arguments could establish new case law. "I can't talk about any of it," he said, "but I think it's correct to say this is [a] cutting-edge [legal issue]." Manno contends that federal investigators improperly used a search warrant as authorization to install a key- stroke recorder on Scarfo's business computer in the spring of 1999. By monitoring the keyboard during May and June, investigators were able to determine the code and password Scarfo used to access an encrypted program in which, author- ities suspected, he was storing gambling and loan-sharking records. Manno said that he was preparing a motion challenging the legality of the surveillance when he was disqualified from the case in October. Manno was barred because in the past he represented a client who is expected to testify for the government against Scarfo. He said he expected the challenge to the surveillance will be raised by whomever Scarfo hires to replace him. "I don't think there is any case law on this issue, and I hope the fact that it's a so-called organized crime inves- tigation doesn't detract from the fundamental and overriding concern here, which is an individual's right to privacy," Manno said last week. Sobel, who has tracked similar issues for the privacy- information center, said techniques used in the Scarfo investigation raised many of the same privacy concerns that he and others have raised over another of the FBI's surveil- lance tools, the e-mail monitoring device known as Carni- vore. The Carnivore system, which also has attracted congres- sional critics, allows investigators to monitor e-mail messages sent to or by a targeted individual. The Scarfo case, he said, is the first in which he has seen references to the use of the keystroke recorder. "Like Carnivore, this is the FBI using investigative technology that goes beyond existing law," he said. Wiretap laws, for example, regulate how and when phone lines and rooms can be "bugged." But those laws, aimed at the electronic interception of oral communication, do not speak to the new technology. A wiretap or room bug also would have required authori- zation from the Attorney General's Office as well as court approval, defense lawyers say. And it would have required investigators to "minimize" - not record or listen to - conversations unrelated to the focus of the investigation. In the Scarfo case, the FBI used general search war- rants authorized by Magistrate G. Donald Haneke to break into a business office in Belleville, Essex County, to plant a keystroke recorder. Investigators believed that Scarfo and an associate were using the business, Merchants Services, which leases machines, software and other equipment for credit-card processing, as a front for a bookmaking and loan-sharking operation. The application for the authorization, submitted by Wigler, contended that as "there will be no wire, oral or electronic communications captured," federal wiretap laws did not apply. The court order, however, did authorize the FBI to "install and leave behind software, firmware, and/or hard- ware equipment which will monitor the inputted data entered on Nicodemo S. Scarfo's computer by recording the key- related information as they are entered." Authorities would not describe which types of devices were used in the investigation. "It's not something we would want to comment on," said Sandy Carroll, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Newark. Experts in electronic surveillance said there are at least three types of keystroke-logging devices. There is software that can be loaded onto a computer. There is an attachment that can be linked to the port where the keyboard line enters the computer. And there is a "bug" that can be put inside the keyboard. The bug is the most effective and least likely to be discovered, said James Atkinson, head of Granite Island Group, a private electronic security and surveillance firm in Gloucester, Mass. The device, Atkinson said, is about the size of a sugar cube. "It weighs a few grams, and unless you . . . routi- nely weighed your keyboard, you'd never notice," he said. Battery-powered and able to recharge itself off the computer, a good keystroke-logging device can store up to 32 million keystrokes, Atkinson said. Typically, information from the device would be down- loaded from a remote location, he said, and the downloading process could take seconds to minutes. The result would be a "mirror" of whatever was tapped into the keyboard. According to court documents, the FBI resorted to the keystroke-logging device after it was frustrated in an attempt to obtain gambling records from a Scarfo computer. Agents first seized a computer from Scarfo's business in January 1999 but were unable to get access to one of the programs in which they suspected gambling records were stored because it was encrypted. Unlike many of his mob contemporaries, Scarfo is com- puter-literate - Manno calls him a "geek." He once worked for a Florida software company. In 1989, when he was wound- ed in a gangland shooting in South Philadelphia, he was carrying a laptop computer that police said contained extor- tion records. In the current case, investigators obtained court authorization for break-ins at Scarfo's business office in May and June and, at some point, planted the keystroke recorder. Later in June, the FBI raided the office, arrested Scarfo and his associate, and seized the computer. Scarfo was allegedly supervising part of a $5-million- a-year mob bookmaking operation with ties to the Gambino crime family, according to court records. His trial, origi- nally scheduled for this month, has been delayed at least until he finds a new lawyer. Manno would not discuss what his client was storing on the encrypted program but said Scarfo was using software known as PGP. "It stands for Pretty Good Privacy," the lawyer said with a chuckle. George Anastasia's http://inq.philly.com/content/inquirer/2000/12/04/front_page/JMOB04.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:47:39 -0600 From: larry ball Subject: [Fwd: USA Saab supports anti hunting group] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C9B611EDE7E73AE49C7313CE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------C9B611EDE7E73AE49C7313CE Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: by pigeon (mbox lball) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.22 1998/04/11) Sun Jan 21 12:21:58 2001) X-From_: list-errors.700004454.0.702106604.004@boing.topica.com Fri Jan 19 18:48:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: from outmta003.topica.com (outmta003.topica.com [206.132.75.200]) by pigeon.inebraska.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01571 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 18:48:09 -0600 (CST) To: "Breitkreuz Hon. Gary MP" , Lemieux Pierre , Cypherpunks , Liberty Free Press , =?iso-8859-1?q?Le_Qu=E9becois_Libre?= , Canadian Firearm Digest , "QuackGrass.com" , "Paul Richards' - Offshore Haven Newsletter" , Patriot on Guard , "Nilsphone@aol.com" , "N. King at Standup New-Zealand" , APFN Kenneth Vardon From: JFA Subject: USA Saab supports anti hunting group Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:47:39 -0800 Message-ID: <0.700004454.816987651-951758591-979951659@topica.com> Reply-To: atlasfedup@topica.com X-Topica-Loop: 700004454 Received: (qmail 13220 invoked by alias); 20 Jan 2001 00:47:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 13213 invoked by uid 0); 20 Jan 2001 00:47:35 -0000 Received: from relais.videotron.ca (HELO VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca) (mail@24.201.245.36) by inmta007.topica.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2001 00:47:35 -0000 Received: from terra ([24.201.220.38]) by VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G7FRJ902.X7R; Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:47:33 -0500 X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.01.1600) For Windows 98 (4.10.1998) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by pigeon.inebraska.com id MAA24562 /=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= - -=3D-=3D-=3D\ FREE DEBT REDUCTION HELP? Did you know you can get COMPLETELY FREE HELP lowering your interest charges and debt payments? Click now for more information about this FREE, LIMITED TIME OFFER. http://click.topica.com/aaaa5DaVxjiAaVF8aea/edebtconsolidation \=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DBEGIN FORWARDED MES= SAGE=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:44:33 +1030 >From: SSAA >Subject: NEWS - USA Saab supports anti hunting group >To: ssaa-news@adelaide.on.net >From the NRA ANOTHER ANTI-HUNTING "SAAB"-STORY In 1999, we reported that Saab Cars USA had entered into a relationship with the largest anti-hunting extremist organization in America the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS). Two years ago, Saab was promoting an HSUS anti-fur campaign, and the latest issue of Saab Magazine indicates the relationship is still strong, as it includes an ad promoting HSUS. But does Saab also support anti-gun extremism? In the same issue of the magazine is a story about Carl Frederick Reutersw=E4rd, the Swedish artist who designed Saab's new symbol. Reutersw=E4rd is probably best known for his sculpture of a revolver with its barrel tied into a knot (a photo of the artist with this sculpture is included in the magazine), a sculpture that is displayed in front of the UN headquarters. If you wish to contact Saab to express your objection to its working with anti-hunting extremists (especially if you are a hunter who owns a Saab), please write: Saab Cars USA Attn. Daniel Chasins, Pres. and COO 4405-A International Blvd. Norcross, GA 30093 Phone: 800-955-9007/770-279-0100 Fax: 770-279-6499 e-mail: custserv@saabusa.com (mailto:custserv@saabusa.com) website: www.saabusa.com (http://www.saabusa.com) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DEND FORWARDED ME= SSAGE=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D /=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-Click Here & Support Our Sponsor-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D= - -=3D-=3D-=3D\ Want a new MASTERCARD with NO Credit Check???? You will Not be denied because of charge offs, slow pays or bad=20 credit. Click here for GUARANTEED* ONLINE APPROVAL NOW! http://click.topica.com/aaabe5aVxjiAaVF8aec/NetFirst \=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-= =3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D/ ____________________________________________________________ T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less.=20 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01 - --------------C9B611EDE7E73AE49C7313CE-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:02:39 -0600 From: larry ball Subject: [Fwd: ezine] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------4A913C23416A273891E72023 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Read the part about Smith & Willy!! It's enough to make one sick. Keep up the pressure - Buy NO new Smith & Willys! Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - --------------4A913C23416A273891E72023 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Received: by pigeon (mbox lball) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.22 1998/04/11) Sun Jan 21 19:56:57 2001) X-From_: guns-return@listmanage.net Sun Jan 21 15:15:49 2001 Return-Path: Received: from mail4.profitstream.net ([64.240.167.137]) by pigeon.inebraska.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28216 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:15:48 -0600 (CST) Received: from [206.13.28.240] by mail4.listmanage.net (NTList 5.06.0016/NU8397.00.bb70a206) with ESMTP id cggoscaa for guns@listmanage.net; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:45:26 -0800 Received: from kconkle ([63.197.147.67]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G7J006YH5OUE8@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for guns@listmanage.net; Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:46:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:39:24 -0800 From: Guns Newsletter Subject: ezine To: lball@inetnebr.com Message-id: <002201c083ea$40155660$d101a8c0@kconkle> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Reply-To: Guns Newsletter X-ListVersion: 5 X-ListMember: lball@inetnebr.com [guns@listmanage.net] X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by pigeon.inebraska.com id SAA12559 The Workbench January 21st, 2001 The FREE Newsletter of the American Gunsmithing Institute. You are receiving this because you subscribed at <= /a> To Unsubscribe: just click on enter your email address, click on unsubscribe button American Gunsmithing Institute 1325 Imola Ave #504 Napa, CA 94559 (800) 797-0867 www.americangunsmith.com =93Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns.=94 J.M. Clark INDUSTRY NEWS Korth Folds! German firearms manufacturer Korth has gone out of business. Anyone who h= as seen one of their high-end pistols knows that these were very high qualit= y. Unfortunately hand fitted high quality, while often missed, no longer pay= s enough to keep those manufacturers around. Make a note: Parts for these g= uns were always scarce, and must be hand fitted. High Power Production Ends! Browning has discontinued the manufacture of the High Power, stating that= it was just too expensive to produce compared to the retail price. (Read NO PROFIT MARGIN). There are millions of these guns out there, and you can start expecting to see repair costs go up as parts dry up. S&W Mails out Contracts! S&W has finally started to mail out contracts for contracts for all of it= s' dealers to sign, in accordance with their agreement with the Government. Dealers who intend to sell S&W firearms must have a signed agreement on f= ile and abide by certain 'code of conduct'. Among other things the dealers MU= ST allow no minors on the premises, make no multiple sales of firearms (regardless of the manufacturer), pay for any 'gun safety' public service announcements, and publicly support all 'gun control' legislation in Congress. It doesn't take a genius to see that anyone who signs will be a= dd their business to any other lawsuits brought against S&W. If you haven't read the agreement you can by clicking this sentence. LOOK BEFORE YOU BUY! A special link anyone who=92s ever bought a used gun should know. Check here if there is any question, and be safe. In the society of litigation we live in it make common sense to use this FREE service! THIS MONTH'S EZINE SPECIAL! Get all three AR-15 video courses "AR-15 Armorers Course", "Building the AR-15 From a part kit step-by-step" and "AR-15 Trigger Jobs=94 a how-to course, all for only $79.85 plus $9 Priority Mail Shipping. FREE copy of = a Gun Safety CD included with the order. There=92s lots of information on t= his interactive CD that covers safety basics. Orders must be placed at www.americangunsmith.com and the word =93ezine=94 must be entered in the message area of the order form to receive your discount! Offer ends January 31st 2001. SHOULD THAT GUN BE RESTORED? By Ron Forsyth The following is an article by one of the premier outdoor writers. Ron ha= s written for dozens of international shooting sports magazines, and did th= is one especially for AGI. The restoration of guns is a touchy subject with some, because of the longstanding practice of seeing originality as being an integral part of value. When a highest quality Fox double is overhauled in America, Americ= an traditional gun collectors see its value disappearing fast. When a highes= t quality Holland and Holland double is overhauled in England, though, the owner would probably argue that something beneficial has happened to it, = and value has been added, not taken away. If we look at a gun in such a condition that it may require work, there = are liable to be two schools of thought. If that gun is being sold on the bas= is of its rarity, the condition of it may come as part of that rarity. All t= oo often, people in the business of keeping and shooting their guns may not realize that this is at least partly what lies behind the traditional collector resistance to any alteration of condition. But how realistic is= it to keep this point of view? If we were to buy a 7.65 semi-auto pistol tha= t we reasonably believe was found in Adolph Hitler=92s bunker with one roun= d missing, souvenired by a Russian soldier, it would be the history we woul= d be seeking in the purchase. That would mean we would not want to rechambe= r it, or convert it to a more useful caliber. In this case, the history wou= ld greatly override any other aspect the gun might have, such as the functional. Most of us, though, when we buy a gun, are not seeking history, but purchase either solely with the intention of use, or for collecting reaso= ns, or for the possibly more common motivation that combines these two, where= we intend to use it but we also hope that the piece will retain as much valu= e as possible. A lot of trouble comes when people are not clear on these natural divisions. Let=92s try to separate them out and see what we can glean fro= m there about whether a gun should be restored. First, the pure collectors already know who they are and what they=92re doing. If the aim is to collect, say, derringers from 1860 to 1900, there= is probably going to be no question of a need for heavy refurbishment. The market drives this. It sets its own rules and we obey them. These are collector pieces and that means collectors will set the running. Where the guns concerned are strictly utilitarian, also, chambered for modern ammunition and suitable for daily use, the position reverses. The need for daily repairs should be obvious. Would we buy a modern under and over shotgun with, say, the Browning name on it, for use at trap, and decline to replace a top lever spring because an aftermarket spring would ruin the originality? This idea is so far-fetched it seems foolish, but i= t has clear parallels in collecting, too. Let=92s say a .450-hammered double rifle from before the end of the last century had been taken to Africa and shot at dangerous game. Let=92s assu= me it had been dropped on its last day there before being brought home to langu= ish under a bed before a lucky collector had stumbled across it. Would its broken hammer, sustained in that fall, be sufficient history to justify t= he new owner stopping the gun from being repaired and restored to original condition? Probably there are few people who would say so, because the function of = the gun would be so dependent on the hammer being repaired. A double rifle wi= th only one usable barrel is tantamount to being half a rifle. If we consider this as being repairs necessary to the good function of t= hat gun, which after all is something of a rarity, perhaps we ought to think = of the repairs that routinely need to be made to other guns in order for the= m to be functional, too. Trouble is, as soon as we do this, we then come up with a need to classi= fy guns differently, because not all are going to justify the price of intricate repairs. A cheap pump action shotgun designed for use on a farm= is worthy of basic repairs, such as the replacement of springs, but obviousl= y it runs out of restoration potential fairly early. There is also no guarantee that other collectors and shooters would do more than reach par= t or occasional agreement about where the cut-off lines of restoration actually lie. One point should be made, however. The makers of best quality double gun= s and rifles had every intention that their guns should be overhauled, and = not just occasionally, either. A gun traditionally called =93best=94 was prod= uced with the best available materials and design, the cost of labor no object. Hence, servicing of highest quality guns meant that as they were returned= to their European or English makers, whatever was needed to keep them in perfect condition was done as a matter of routine. This included not only repairing small, honest scars such as barrel dents, but also rebluing, rejointing and anything else that might need to be done. Best guns were designed to be worked hard and it would be very unrealistic to think that their makers expected them to keep their new shine beyond the first game season. With American guns, placed more in the middle of the quality road, and m= ade in larger numbers with more machine involvement, it is easy to understand why a collector could be profoundly moved by coming on a piece in near-perfect original condition, but on the other hand be not very excite= d at all at the prospect of yet another that had been reblued and given a n= ew fore-end. Such guns were made for common shooting tasks and were subject = to the knocks of the field. When found in finest original condition they are collectable items on that account. For most of us, though, it is not a realistic expectation to stumble on something of this sort any more than rarely, and when we do what we have in the hand has less to do with guns = and shooting than it has to do with history. This outlines directly the philosophical difference between those two groups today, on the one hand those who feel obliged to repair and bring their guns up to the mark for shooting purposes, and on the other those w= ho want to collect pristine artifacts and continue to see only lost value in repairs. There is a good case for now, at this stage of history, mentally narrowi= ng down the group of guns which should never be touched, and widening the gr= oup that we should be happy to have worked on to bring them up to standard. When English makers of nearly a century ago had the opportunity, they ke= pt up their mystique by keeping alive the notion that when a competitor overhauled one of their guns, something had been lost. In a competitive market they continuously tried to keep alive the idea that they had speci= al techniques of manufacture that contributed intangible advantages to their products. This process was driven by marketing imperatives, and has very little basis in fact. Yes, someone=92s single trigger mechanism, for inst= ance, would be best repaired in-house. But that can=92t be said of the standard tightening or regulating procedures, which applied everywhere. A lot of angst boils up over the restoration of old doubles. In reality, double guns are exercises in managed and controlled wear on sites of know= n mechanical stress. This means a maintenance requirement is normal, and no= t to be held against a gun unless because of design faults it is required t= oo often. It should be only a matter of time till American collectors have grown comfortable with this idea, and how long it takes will revolve arou= nd the drying up of the pool of 'original' guns. When that elusive historical-cum-rare gun is more unprocurable because of the passage of time, there will still be people paying big (and maybe eve= n bigger) money for it, as they would for General Custer=92s hat, but they should=92ve been heavily overtaken in numbers by intelligent shooter-collectors who=92ve worked out that good quality in their guns ma= kes for good quality in their shooting and their enjoyment. This latter group won=92t mind intelligent repair at all, because the makers of good guns h= ave always known that repair is part and parcel of gun maintenance. Many connoisseurs see fine guns in terms of function long before style. T= o these people, repairing, replacing and altering are inevitable in the process of securing and improving a gun's performance. But isn=92t this t= he same as the trap shooter who needs to work on a stock to shift point of impact, or a varmint shooter who can=92t get the necessary accuracy with anything short of a full custom trigger job, or a Rimfire accuracy buff w= ho has to have a chamber re-cut? In a way, then, there may be little difference between people having goo= d gun repairs done, regardless of whether they=92re working on classic or utilitarian firearms. There is, however, one vital aspect to this discussion: the work must always be worthy of the gun in question. When t= he gun is expensive and the work is cheap or inappropriate, then an experien= ced gun fancier would consider that to be damage. When the gun is cheap and t= he work is expensive, then that=92s nothing but waste. In other words, whatever restoration has been carried out to a working g= un really needs to be in keeping with the usual perimeters of the work of th= e maker and the era or possibly the style. Here is where the experienced collector finds his horror stories - the finest walnut stock cut off to eleven inches, the best chopper lump barrels cut off leaving true cylinde= rs, the short chambers inappropriately re-cut. Butchery comes in many guises. Nothing should be done to a valuable gun that offends the usual style of = the maker. It isn=92t hard to sum up: there is usually no real argument against intelligent gun repairs and modifications, as long as they are appropriat= e, and in the process history is not offended or genuine rarity harmed. LET US KNOW! Do articles like this interest you? Would you like to see more of these, = and technique specific articles in this newsletter? Send your opinions to kconkle@pacbell.net We are trying our best to make this the best gunsmithing newsletter in existence. We are happy to use any contributions regarding tips, techniqu= es, industry news, and articles of interest. Submissions also need to be forwarded to kconkle@pacbell.net FREE CATALOG! Our latest catalog is now available. It's 24 full color pages describing = of all the AGI products. Order your copy today! 800-797-0867. PASS THIS ON TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS! You are currently subscribed as: lball@inetnebr.com Click here to send an unsubscribe message: mailto:ls@listmanage.net?body=3Dlv=3Dguns=3Dlball@inetnebr.com - --------------4A913C23416A273891E72023-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:04:57 -0600 From: larry ball Subject: Agreement Between Smith & Wesson and the Departments of the Treasury and Housing and Urban Development, Local Governments and States This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------59E8710C6A27C8995BA79F03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the address of the Smith & Willy agreement with the US government http://www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.html - --------------59E8710C6A27C8995BA79F03 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1; name="gunagree.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="gunagree.html" Content-Base: "http://www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.h tml" Content-Location: "http://www.hud.gov/pressrel/gunagree.h tml" = = Agreement Between Smith & Wesson and the Departments of the Tre= asury and Housing and Urban Development, Local Governments and States = = = = = = = = = = = =
= = 3D"HUD = =
= =
= = = =  
 

AGREEMENT BETWEEN SMITH & WESSON AND
THE DEPARTMENTS OF THE TREASURY AND HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT,
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND STATES

SUMMARY OF TERMS

Preamble: The city, state, county and federal parties agree to dis= miss the parties from the pending suits and refrain from filing suits aga= inst the manufacturer parties based on an equivalent cause of action.

=

SAFETY AND DESIGN

All handguns must meet the following safety and design standar= ds:

  • Second "hidden" serial number, to prevent criminals from o= bliterating serial numbers.
  • External locking device sold with all guns within 60 days.
  • Internal locking device on all guns within 24 months.
  • Smart Guns -- Authorized User Technology.
    • Manufacturers commit 2% of annual firearms revenues to the develo= pment of authorized user technology.
    • Within 36 months, authorized user technology will be included in all = new firearm models, with the exception of curios and collectors=92= firearms.
    • If top eight manufacturers agree, authorized user technology will be = included in all new firearms.
  • Child Safety. Within 12 months, handguns will be designed so t= hey cannot be readily operated by a child under 6.
  • Performance test. All firearms will be subject to a performanc= e test to ensure safety and quality.
  • Drop test. All firearms will be subject to a test to ensure th= ey do not fire when dropped.

All pistols must meet the following additional requirements:

  • Safety device. Positive manually operated safety device.
    • =
  • Magazine disconnectors must be available on all pistols to cus= tomers who desire the feature, within 12 months.
  • Chamber load indicators on all pistols, showing whether the pi= stol is loaded, within 12 months.
  • Large capacity magazines. New firearm designs will not be able= to accept large-capacity magazines that were manufactured prior to Septe= mber 1994. (Manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since that = date.)

Law enforcement and military exception. If law enforcement agen= cies or the military certify the need, exceptions to these requirements m= ay be made. Manufacturers will ask that these guns not be resold to the c= ivilian market.

Warnings about safe storage and handling included with all fire= arms within six months.

Illegal firearms. Manufacturers will not sell firearms that can= readily be converted into fully automatic weapons or that are resistant = to fingerprints.

 

SALES AND DISTRIBUTION

Code of Conduct. The manufacturers will sell only to authorized= dealers and distributors and allow their authorized distributors to sell= only to authorized dealers. Authorized dealers and distributors will agr= ee to a code of conduct. If manufacturers receive notice of a violation b= y an authorized dealer or distributor, they will take action against the = dealer or distributor, including termination of sales to the dealer or di= stributor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have aut= hority to require termination or suspension if warranted.

The code of conduct will require authorized dealers and distributors t= o:

  • Gun shows: make no gun show sales unless all sales at t= he gun show are completed only after a background check.
  • Brady checks: wait as long as necessary for a completed Brady = check showing that the purchaser is not a felon or otherwise prohibited b= efore selling a gun to the purchaser.
  • Safety training for purchasers: transfer firearms only to indi= viduals who have passed certified safety course or exam and demonstrate t= o purchasers how to use all safety devices and how to load, unload, and s= afely store the firearm before completing the sale.
  • Multiple handgun sales: all purchasers of multiple handguns to= take only one handgun from the store on the day of sale, at which point = a multiple sales report will be filed with ATF. The remainder of the guns= can only be collected after 14 days.
  • Employee training: require all employees to attend ATF-approve= d training and to pass a exam on firearms laws, straw purchasers, illegal= trafficking indicators, and gun safety.
  • Insurance: carry liability insurance where available, with a m= inimum coverage of $1 million for each incident.
  • Inventory control: maintain an electronic inventory tracking p= lan within 24 months
  • Security: implement a security plan for securing firearms.
  • Child access: require persons under 18 to be accompanied by ad= ults in gun stores or gun sections of stores.
  • Weapons attractive to criminals: not sell large capacity magaz= ines or semiautomatic assault weapons.
  • Compliance: provide law enforcement, government regulators, an= d the Oversight Commission established in this Agreement with access to d= ocuments necessary to determine compliance; cooperate fully in the Agreem= ent=92s Oversight mechanism.
  • Crime gun traces: maintain an electronic record of all ATF tra= ce requests and report trace requests to manufacturers.
  • Indicted dealers: forgo firearms sales to licensed dealers kno= wn to be under indictment.
  • Straw purchasers: not to make sales to straw purchasers.
    • <= /UL>

    Manufacturer commitments. Manufacturers will:

    • Provide quarterly sales data to ATF.
    • Not market guns in any manner designed to appeal to juveniles or crim= inals.
    • Refrain from selling any modified/sporterized semi-automatic pistol o= f type that cannot be imported into U.S.
    • Reaffirm policy of not placing advertisements in vicinity of schools,= high crime zones, and public housing.
    • Implement a security plan for securing firearms.
    • Designate an officer to ensure compliance with the Agreement.

      • Corporate responsibility for crime gun traces. If an authorized= dealer or distributor has a disproportionate number of crime guns traced= to it within three years of sale, the manufacturers will take action, in= cluding possible termination or suspension, against the dealer or distrib= utor. The Oversight Commission will review such actions and have authorit= y to require termination or suspension if warranted.

      Oversight Commission will be established and empowered to overs= ee implementation of the Agreement. The Commission will have five members= selected as follows: one by manufacturers; two by city and county partie= s; one by state parties; one by ATF. The Commission=92s powers will inclu= de the authority to review compliance with the design and safety requirem= ents, review the safety and training program for dealer and distributor e= mployees, review manufacturer actions against dealers or distributors tha= t violate the Agreement or have a disproportionate number of crime gun tr= aces, and require suspension or termination if warranted.

      Role of ATF. To the extent consistent with law, ATF will work w= ith manufacturers and the Oversight Commission to assist them in meeting = obligations under the Agreement. ATF will notify the Oversight Commission= of certain violations of the Agreement by distributors and dealers if it= uncovers such violations.

      Ballistics Imaging. Within six months, if technologically avail= able, manufacturers will fire all firearms before sale and will enter the= digital image of the casings in a system compatible with the National In= tegrated Ballistics Identification Network and accessible to ATF. This wi= ll enable law enforcement to trace crime guns when only the bullets or ca= sings are recovered.

      Access 2000. Manufacturers shall participate in ATF=92s Access = 2000 program, which establishes electronic links with ATF and enables hig= h-speed tracing of crime guns.

      Legislation. The parties will work together to support legislat= ive efforts to reduce firearm misuse and the development of authorized us= er technology.

      Education trust fund. Upon resolution of all current city, stat= e, and county lawsuits, manufacturers will dedicate 1% of overall firearm= s revenues to an education trust fund.

      Most favored entity. If other manufacturers enter agreements wi= th more expansive design and distribution reforms, and those manufacturer= s, along with the manufacturer parties to this Agreement, account for fif= ty percent or more of United States handgun sales, the manufacturer parti= es to this Agreement will agree to abide by the same reforms.

      Enforcement. The Agreement will be entered into and enforceable= as a court order and as a contract.

      =

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