From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #426 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, February 15 2001 Volume 02 : Number 426 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 01 19:23:56 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Charlton Heston Speech (fwd) On Feb 14, MomSchumm@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > Subject: Speak Out > > For 50 years, the Harvard Law School Forum has been sponsoring > speeches by luminaries ranging from Fidel Castro to Gerald Ford to > Dr. Ruth. Sometimes the speeches have generated a bit of media > coverage, sometimes not. But one given last month by Charlton Heston > has taken on a life of its own. Heston, the actor and conservative > activist, delivered a stem-winder to about 200 listeners about "a > cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say > what resides in your heart." "He knew he was coming to a liberal > environment, and clearly a group of his listeners was conservative > and another was more liberal," said David Christopherson, president > of the forum. "About half respectfully challenged him during the > questions. It generated a lot of debate around the campus. But what > happened caught us off-guard." What happened was Rush Limbaugh's > radio talk show. On March 15, Limbaugh read the entire speech on the > air, only to find himself bombarded with thousands of requests for a > copy of it. The same thing happened at Harvard Law. "We couldn't > keep up with all the requests," said Mike Chmura at Harvard. "It > really didn't have legs and might have been forgotten if Mr. > Limbaugh hadn't decided to deliver it." > > > 'Winning the Cultural War' - Charlton Heston's Speech to the Harvard > Law School Forum, Feb 16, 1999 > > I remember my son when he was five, explaining to his kindergarten > class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, > "pretends to be people." There have been quite a few of them. > Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian > saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, > several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two > geniuses, including Michelangelo. If you want the ceiling repainted > I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows > up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I > guess I'm the guy. As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: If > my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds > of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to > reconnect you with your own sense of liberty of your own freedom of > thought ... your own compass for what is right. Dedicating the > memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now > engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any > nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure." Those words > are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil > war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think > and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the > pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this > country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is. Let me > back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle > Association, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran > for office, I was elected, and now I serve ... I serve as a moving > target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" > and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... > I'm pretty old ... but I sure, Lord, ain't senile. As I have stood > in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, > I've realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much, > much bigger than that. I've come to understand that a cultural war > is raging across our land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain > acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated. For example, I marched > for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 - long before Hollywood found > it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white > pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's > pride, they called me a racist. I've worked with brilliantly > talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that > gayrights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I > was called a homophobe. I served in World War II against the Axis > powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling > out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite. Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was > compared to Timothy McVeigh. From Time magazine to friends and > colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak > your mind. You are using language not authorized for public > consumption!" But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in > political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys --subjects > bound to the British crown. In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin > Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being > established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. > There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual > theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, > the nation is roiling. Americans know something without a name is > undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to > separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't > like it." Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, > young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at > each step of the process from kissing to petting to final copulation > ... all clearly spelled out in a printed college directive. In New > Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had > been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDs --- the state > commissioner announced that health providers who are HIV-positive > "need not ..... need not" ..... tell their patients that they are > infected. At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of > the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to > local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly > like the name. In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance > protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, > and for transsexuals to have separate toilet facilities while > undergoing sex change surgery. In New York City, kids who don't > speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to > learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names > sound Hispanic. At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where > thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that > college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black > students. Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said > "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said "black." > But it's a no-no now. For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... > particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's > sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the > Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a thirteenth > generation native American ... with a capital letter on "American." > Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington > D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while > talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, > "niggardly" means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was > forced to publicly apologize and resign. As columnist Tony Snow > wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ > were morons who (a) didn't know the meaning of niggardly, (b) didn't > know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and (c) > actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance." What does > all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved > into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far > behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: > Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And > why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to > debate ideas, surrender to their suppression? Let's be honest. Who > here thinks your professors can say what they really believe? It > scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition > of political correctness rules the halls of reason. You are the best > and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American > academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you > are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across > the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced > generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you validate that > ... and abide it ... you are -- by your grandfathers' standards -- > cowards. Here's another example. Right now at more than one major > university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told > to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? > Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's > pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars > from firearm manufacturers. I don't care what you think about guns. > But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will > guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will > defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free > thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot > me." If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you > see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. > If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you > anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it > does not make you a homophobe. Don't let America's universities > continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new > McCarthyism. But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against > such pervasive social subjugation? The answer's been here all along. > I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in > Washington, DC, standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred > thousand people. You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. > Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how > to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey > social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom. I > learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ... who > learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau, and Jesus, and every other > great man who led those in the right against those with the might. > Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that > disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent > Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that > protested a war in Viet Nam. In that same spirit, I am asking you to > disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue > authority, social directives and onerous laws that weaken personal > freedom. But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you > put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must > be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent > of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water cannons at Selma. You > must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not complaining, but > my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me. Let > me tell you a story. A few years back I heard about a rapper named > Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing > and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other > than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the > world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at > least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling > because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing > around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner > had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some > shares at the time, so I decided to attend. What I did there was > against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the > floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, > I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer"- every vicious, > vulgar, instructional word. "I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF. I GOT MY > HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF. I'M ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF. I'M ABOUT > TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..." It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read > the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, > frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their > chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that. Then I > delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore. "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY ...." Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the > lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said "We can't print > that." "I know," I replied, "but Time/Warner's selling it." Two > months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be > offered another film by Warner's, or get a good review from Time > magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not > just talk. When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending > herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office. > When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80% of > the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board > of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the > playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment ... > march on that school and block its doorways. When someone you > elected is seduced by political power and betrays you...petition > them, oust them, banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays > millennium nuts as deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it > did last month ... boycott their magazine and the products it > advertises. So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to > follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great disobedience's of > history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and > yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, > by God's grace, built this country. If Dr. King were here, I think > he would agree. Thank you. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 01 10:47:25 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."Luke ch.22 v.36" (fwd) On Feb 15, Kevin M. McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Pull quote of the Day: "Crime is caused by criminals - persons with evil hearts and evil intentions." And when only the agencies of government have access to arms, those with evil hearts and evil intentions will of course be drawn to those agencies. Another lesson of the last eight years or so. Kevin M. McGehee Coweta County, Georgia mcgehee@charter.net http://www.McGeheeZone.com/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Williams" To: "KL7DW" Sent: Thursday, 15 February, 2001 9:54 AM Subject: "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."Luke ch.22 v.36 Father Murphy and the Million Mom March by David Dieteman There is an Irish folk song named "Boulavogue," which tells the story of a Catholic priest, Father John Murphy. Ultimately, the story of Boulavogue is the story of a priest who convinced his flock to surrender their arms to their government, but upon seeing the slaughter of his flock by that government, came to lead his sheep in rebellion, and was executed in the end. At first, as the United Irish (founded by Wolfe Tone, a Protestant) struggled to start the Rebellion of 1798, Father Murphy convinced his parishioners to sign an oath of allegiance to the government. The county of Wexford, as Robert Kee writes in the first volume of The Green Flag, was "feebly organized" for rebellion. The plan of the United Irish was for all of Ireland to rise against the English simultaneously. This was only four years after the revolution in Poland led by Tadeusz Kosciuscko (a veteran of the American Revolution), nine years after the French Revolution, and 22 years after the beginning of the American Revolution. The spark which set Wexford on fire (quite literally) was the search for illegal weapons (sound familiar?). The English used the local yeomanry to scour the county for weapons and, predictably, the local volunteers were a bit too enthusiastic in their searches and seizures. The North Cork militia, which searched Wexford for illegal arms, was mostly Catholic. Despite this fact, they were no easier on the mostly Catholic locals than the Protestant militias were in other parts of Catholic Ireland. As Kee observes, the North Cork militia "were the very troops popularly credited with the invention of the pitch-cap method of torture. One of their sergeants named Heppenstal had acquired the nickname of 'the walking gallows ' for his peculiar skill in half-hanging men over his shoulder." By May of 1798, men and women in Wexford slept in the fields so as not to die in their houses, should their houses be put to the torch in the middle of the night. News of massacres and uprisings from all over Ireland had tensions running high. In this atmosphere, Father John Murphy encouraged his parishioners to surrender their arms in exchange for the promise of protection by the English government. His parishioners did so. Unsurprisingly, the English did not abide by the rules of their alleged protections. As Kee reports, "The Arms Proclamation in Wexford had allowed a period of fourteen days for the surrender of arms. But the local magistrates and troops had shown no inclination to wait that long but had begun floggings and other tortures immediately." Troops who encountered peasants, after demanding the surrender of arms, simply opened fire without waiting for compliance. This disregard for the rule of law outraged the Irish, as it had outraged the American colonists twenty-two years earlier: "A portion of the men...had now become spiritless. They saw that a Proclamation issued with all the formality and apparent binding of an Act of Parliament was despised and made no account of...Their arms in a great measure surrendered, they became silent, sullen and resolved to meet their fate with such arms as they were in possession of." In other words, after the Irish had dutifully turned over their weapons, they quickly realized that they were sheep for the slaughter. Having voluntarily deprived themselves of their most effective means of self-defense, they now stood at the mercy of their English oppressors. The English set fire to one farm after shooting into a crowd of men working the fields. The lieutenant in charge of the torching, a man named Bookey, is remembered to this day in the song Boulavogue. Bookey died that day, stabbed in the throat by a pike. The next day, Bookey's regiment rampaged across the countryside in a feat of vengeance that would have pleased Abe Lincoln and General Sherman. Over 170 homes were burned, as well as Father Murphy's chapel at Boulavogue. As a result of this destruction, Father Murphy and roughly 1,000 men gathered on Oulart Hill, with perhaps fifty guns and no military leadership. The group was attacked by 110 members of the North Cork militia, but drove the militia from the hill. After an encouraging string of early victories, the rebels were soundly defeated. Massacres of Protestants alienated the few Protestants, such as Beauchamp Bagenal Harvey, who had provided a semblance of military leadership. At Vinegar Hill, cannon fire and determined assaults drove the rebels from their base while "mowing them down like grass." The English, who would come to fight the Germans in two world wars in the twentieth century, relied not only upon local militias, but upon imported German mercenaries - Hessians, as in the American Revolution - to put down the rebellion. The Hessians were ruthless in their depredations. As Kee reports, one English officer later wrote that the crown's forces never gave quarter in the rebellion...hundreds and thousands of wretches were butchered while unarmed on their knees begging mercy; and it is difficult to say whether [regular] soldiers, yeomen or militia men took most delight in their bloody work. In such actions as he saw, all the male inhabitants of any house in which the rebels took refuge were put to death and the German contingent in the king's army, Hessians commanded by a Count Hompech, won fame for their rape and slaughter of women. The same officer reckons that altogether 25,000 rebels and peaceable inhabitants were killed in this way, 'by the lowest calculation,' and the Protestant historian, Gordon, in trying to assess the total number of people killed on both sides in the whole rebellion and reaching the tentative figure of 50,000, says he 'has reason to think that more men than fell in battle were killed in cold blood.' The Rising of 1798 at an inglorious end, the English hung Father John Murphy, burned his body in a barrel of tar, and placed his head on a spike on a main street. Of course, there was tragedy in the deaths of those loyal to the English occupiers as well. Among those killed fighting for English domination of Ireland was Lord Mountjoy, "who, as Luke Gardiner twenty years before, had carried through the Irish House of Commons the first Catholic Relief Bill, permitting Catholics once again to own land." After the rebellion of 1798, the Irish would wait 150 years to gain their independence. Many more would die during those 150 years, either in war, rebellion, or An Gorta Mor (the Famine). Only after the Easter Rebellion of 1916, a civil war in the 1920s, and the willingness of Eamon DeValera to declare Irish independence in 1948, did Ireland regain the independence it had lost nearly 700 years earlier. The story of Father Murphy has rather obvious implications for America today. Rather than blindly surrender our freedoms and firearms in exchange for paper promises of "protection," Americans are better served to rely upon themselves. There are an abundance of fools today - Rosie O'Donnell, Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist Don Wright of the Palm Beach Post, the Million Mom March, and most Democratic politicians - who would have Americans willingly surrender their firearms. The argument is that if only regular citizens would give up the means of self-defense, enjoyment, and hunting, then there would be no crime, no murder. How utterly stupid. Crime is caused by criminals - persons with evil hearts and evil intentions. Although it is fashionable today to "understand" why a criminal turned to a life of crime, this should not excuse what the criminal does, nor should it cause one to leave one's doors unlocked at night, or to leave oneself unarmed within a home. The murdered man or woman, or the rape victim, is not made whole again because we realize that a felon did what he did after having been abused as a child, or because of a chemical imbalance in his brain. To leave oneself defenseless, at the mercy of criminals and dependent upon someone answering a call of 911, is sheer foolishness. In the event that an NFL-linebacker sized man (or, the way the NFL is going these days, an NFL linebacker) breaks into your home with the intent of raping, killing, and robbing, do you really wish to rely on your luck to a) get to the phone, b) dial it, c) wait for them to pick up, d) describe to the person on the phone how you are about to die, and then e) wait for the police to arrive? Your loved ones may get the joy of hearing your screams played over and over on the nightly news while a transcription of "Oh my God! Please stop!" runs across the screen. (The media is so sensitive, especially where the feelings of victims are concerned). Far better to have the means of your own protection quick at hand. As the old saying goes "God created men, but Sam Colt made them equal." For the very slow, Sam Colt invented the Colt revolver. It's a gun. What does this have to do with Father Murphy, aside from the obvious connection to surrendering guns? Aside from Rosie and the gang of twits mentioned above, the churches have gotten into the gun-banning game. How many people have to die, how many girls must be raped, before the churches snap out of their latest fad? The church teaches that one has a moral duty of self-defense. Just as suicide - actively causing harm to oneself - is immoral, so too is the failure to resist when resistance is possible (passively allowing harm to be done to yourself). If you are in mortal danger, respect for yourself requires you to fight back. Exactly how are faithful Christians supposed to fulfill their duty of self-defense without the means to do so? How are they to protect their children without the means to do so? If there is a better means of defending one's self than a gun, please tell me and I will buy it in large quantities. If you are a 100-pound woman facing a 250 pound, 6'2" man - roughly, an NFL linebacker - would you rather have a) a baseball bat, b) a kitchen knife, or c) a pistol or shotgun? Hopefully, the answer is c every time. If guns are no good for self-defense, one wonders why muscular male police officers feel the need to carry them. Surely, in hand-to-hand combat with knives, clubs, or fists, a tough cop might stand a chance where a housewife stands none. Americans, learn a lesson from Father Murphy. Don't trust your government to protect you, and don't hand over your most effective means of self-defense. For those of you still foolish enough to listen to anything said by Rosie O' Donnell, or any Democratic politician, such that you might be worried that your kids will find your guns and injure themselves, take a look at the cold, hard facts: guns save lives, and they save the lives of children. John Lott's book More Guns, Less Crime and Robert Waters' The Best Defense: True Stories of Intended Victims who Defended Themselves with a Firearm provide all the data to satisfy the most die-hard ammophobes (gun-o-phobes just doesn't have a ring to it). Your toddler is more likely to drown in a bathtub than be shot. Those statistics you hear so often on the nightly news about kids being shot include 17, 18 and 19 year old murder victims, i.e. persons involved in gangs and drugs. If you want to truly teach your children to understand the importance of gun safety, buy a gun, learn to use it safely, and teach your children as well. The NRA's Eddie the Eagle program is a model of gun safety - endorsed by the FBI, no less. [Quotations taken from Robert Kee, The Green Flag, vol. 1. The Most Distressful Country. New York: Penguin, 1972. Part Two, Chs. 10 and 11.] February 14, 2001 Mr. Dieteman is an attorney in Erie, Pennsylvania, and a PhD candidate in philosophy at The Catholic University of America. © 2001 David Dieteman http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman19.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 01 10:48:27 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: HCI and Heston at Villanova (fwd) Now this is the kind of thing we need to see a lot more of! On Feb 14, stevechr@ptd.net wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] A friend of mine attended the Charleton Heston presentation at Villanova University tonight. His opening line about "going easy on Chuck" is an allusion to a previous discussion we had about Heston's public statements that he doesn't think ordinary citizens should own "assault rifles." Here is his after action report. The lesson to be learned here is that we must never allow the anti's a free ride - ever! If they show up somewhere, we hassle 'em - just for fun. It doesn't take planning or coordination or a large group. It only takes one committed person who is willing to donate his time (and in this case $10 plus mileage from Easton to Philadlephia). A giant attaboy is owed to Jason. >Delivered-To: stevechr@ptd.net >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:43:34 -0500 >To: stevechr@ptd.net >From: Jason > >I went easy on chuck. > >But, I had fun with the "students" with anti-gun literature. > >I went back and asked for a "group" photo with me in the middle. Shirley >Lake was manning the Camera. See, the SAS was not allowed to set up their >info display because they were not a "student" org. While we were lining >up for the photo the friendly puppet master/HCI rep threw a fit and said >"no pictures, no pictures, no pictures." Seeing her HCI badge I asked if >she was "in charge" of the group. She said yes. As the campus cop RUSHED >over to break up the ruckess, I introduced myself and inquired as to why >the SAS was not allowed to set up shop. With the "non students" answer I >pointed out that the same HCI Rep that denied me my photo op is in fact "in >charge". That said, the campus cops made them close up shop. > >While they were packing up I inquired about their lobbying against the Gun >Show Loophole. By this time the HCI momma was peeved. I asked three or >four if they 1) knew what it was and 2) had they ever been to a gun show... > >I thanked the students for their time and thanked them for their work. >They were perplexed. I thanked Ms HCI for her work.... "If it weren't for >you, my people would not have a visible foe to rally against." > >Oh ya I forgot, I embellished a wee bit when I asked them (prior to the >photo op request) if they had heard of the Holocaust? They answered yes. >Ms. HCI was listening intently. I said that my people were put on trains >and led to camps right after the Original Handgun Control Inc. applied "gun >control" to an unsuspecting nation. > >It was a good night. More than worth the $10. > >Jason [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 01 13:32:05 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RE: Is Gun Confiscation In Effect ? (fwd) On Feb 15, R.J. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] So now we know that we have 1) the Supreme Law of the Land (the Constitution & Bill of Rights) and 2) the constitutions of the several states that say we have the RKBA We have a Federal Executive Branch that does not respect 1) and 2) above; We have federal and state legislatures that are passing laws contrary to the constitutions; We have local, state, and federal Law Enforcement agencies enforcing illegitimate laws; We have a de facto conficsation of arms contrary to the constitutions, and We have courts at all levels that are upholding these illegitimate laws and We have legislators and Law Enforcement officials at all levels that act, in fact, as though all of these laws (all these statutory laws and various codes) are superior to the Supreme Law of the Land. What we have, in fact, is a government acting outside of the authority granted to it (them) -- a network of illegitimate governments, operating without the consent of (all of) the governed. An illegitimate government has no authority, unless the governed do not take appropriate action which is inside of its authority and obligations. Now, what might that be? What is left for us to exercise? Since this is true "...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." "...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Our efforts to install a government and administration that will respect the Supreme Law has failed, and the only remedy left is a Revolution that no one is apparently willing to fight. Our current Department of Justice has taken no concrete action to halt or provide protection for a church recently closed by them. So apparently we have an illegitimate government. We have a just basis and a duty to "to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their [our] future security." Notice recent events at the Indianapolis Baptist Temple, where the IRS siezed and closed a local church for refusing to become agents of the IRS and to collect taxes. The pastor refused the help of those who would have stood by him and his congregation, since that solution would have involved the RKBA. This is not to give much deserved credit to local and state Law Enforcement officials to simply not participate. But in spite of all the rhetoric from "the Right", I believe we Americans lack the public will and the leadership to execute a necessary action. So now it is clear to me that as of this date, we have the will or the leadership to fight for the cause and maybe win it. Therefore, there is no basis for a "Just War" against the oppressors. ... Rick Butkowski Constitution Coalition rbutkowski2@home.com rbutkowski@aol.com - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Chesley [mailto:excalibur25@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 1:06 PM To: texas_net@yahoogroups.com; WPSNMailingList@onelist.com; apfn@onelist.com; NWAlliance@onelist.com; slick-d@yahoogroups.com; excalibur25@juno.com Subject: {slick-d} Is Gun Confiscation In Effect ? To those who have vain hope that the nra or some other, alegedly, pro 2A organization is the answer to restoring the Second Amendment (2A), I did some research. Below is my recent exchange with Attorney Larry Becraft, a well known and respected pro US Constitutional attorney. ********** From: Bruce Chesley To: Attorney Larry Becraft Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 21:08:29 -0500 Hi, Larry: My 1990 Black's Law Dictionary defines: De facto. In fact, in deed, actually. This phrase is used to characterize an officer, a government, a past action, or a state of affairs which must be accepted for all practical purposes, but is illegal or illegitimate. Thus, an office, position, or status existing under a claim or color of right such as a de facto corporation. In this sense, it is contrary to de jure, which means rightful, legitimate, just or constitutional. [Remainder excluded for brevity] Confiscation. Act of confiscating. The seizure of private property by the government without compensation to the owner, often as a consequence of conviction for crime, or because possession or use of the property was contrary to law. The provisions of due process prohibit the confiscation of property without compensation except where the property is taken in the valid execution of the police power. Given that the federal and state governments have converted the individual right to keep and bear arms to a paid for permission and have banned certain firearms - new machine guns, "assault weapons", et al - from ownership, isn't this de facto confiscation of the individual right and de facto gun confiscation ? Your thoughts. ********** From: Attorney Larry Becraft Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:01:55 -0600 I think you have an accurate view of the matter. Wish it were otherwise. Larry ********** From: Attorney Larry Becraft Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:19:47 -0600 Hey Bruce, I believe your note is addressed to the "takings" issue and that is why I responded in the manner I did. I have no problem with you e-mailing my notes to others, but I thank you for thinking about consequences to me. I already spend too much time on the Net, which is bad for getting work done. Please, do not include my e-mail address. For the matter you brought up in your note to me, I think that people who have such interests should do some reading and studying on "takings." This authority should get you started: 1. Executive Order 12630, March 18, 1988, and June 30, 1988, AG Guideline for the evaluation of risk and avoidance of unanticipated takings. Also 43 USC 1901. Also 36 CFR 219.7. 2. Yancey v. US, 915 F.2d 1534 (Fed Cir. 1990): turkeys had to be paid for by agency. 3. Formanek v. US, 26 Cl.Ct. 332 (1992): agency denied permit, considered a taking. 4. Lariscey v. US, 949 F2d 1137 (Fed Cir. 1991): prisoner's invention. 5. Kaiser Aetna v. US, 444 US 164, 100 SCt 383 (1979): marina. 6. Nixon v. US, 978 F2d 1269 (DC Cir. 1992): pres. papers. 7. Golden Gate Hotel Ass'n. v. City & County of San Francisco, 836 FSupp. 707 (ND Cal. 1993): ordinance took hotel property. I suggest you hit a law library, get these cases and make them available to others. Then, people will appreciate the "takings" arguments. By takings, I mean compensation paid via the exercise of eminent domain powers, which is what gun confiscation is. Larry ********** My note to email recipients: Given that Attorney Becraft agrees with my assertion that de facto gun confiscation is in effect, who then are the clueless ? Remember, the nra has conspired with politicians to get increasingly more anti 2A laws into effect, since at least as early as its support for the 1934 nfa. The other, allegedly, pro 2A orgs. have failed to do the right things to restore the 2A. Americas' alleged patriotic community has consistently stated that confiscation would be the final line drawn in the sand. Yet, nationwide defacto confiscation has existed since the 1934 nfa enactment. Where is that final line in the sand ? Nowhere. Never has been, is not now, never will be. BTW, I will not be hitting the law library to obtain and post the above cited cases and decisions. I've done my bit. BTW2. My assertion addresses the barest tip of your tyrannically confiscated rights. Bruce Chesley Truth is a terrible cross to bear. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.". Thomas Paine Treason for $$$: ALL "pro 2A" orgs. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #426 *************************