From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #428 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, February 20 2001 Volume 02 : Number 428 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 01 14:38:11 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: WOW - SOMEONE'S PETITION TO BAN GUNS IN THE USA (fwd) On Feb 14, Barbara Alford wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] To clark@thinkradio.net who proposed the below petition to BAN all GUNS IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I had to take a walk after I read your "petition" to ban guns, which in essence takes away our inalienable right as Americans, as human beings, to protect not only ourselves, but our homes and families/friends as well. I do not understand what "logic" you are using and I will not even pretend to imagine how your mind works in creating such a petition, but I must ask you this: Do you know you are free in all regards (ie. freedom of speech, freedom to move about as you choose, etc) because of firearms? Our Founding Fathers did not, let me repeat, they DID NOT put the second amendment in the Bill of Rights for light or transient causes such as hunting. Of course, that is what the main stream media would have you believe. Rather (and maybe it would help if you studied our American History, Constitution, the Federalist papers and various writings of our Founding Fathers and revolutionaries) the second amendment was placed in our Bill of Rights for the specific reason which is this: they believed that an armed citizenry would be the only defense to a government which may otherwise become tyrannical and despotic. It has worked for over two hundred years, and I'll tell you that if you get them to come for our guns your freedoms which you take so much for granted, will be gone the next day. Most of us Patriots realize that guns in the hands of the law abiding citizens is the bolt that holds our other freedoms together. Somewhere along the line liberals have come to think that guns kill people. I'd like to correct you on that one; it is people who kill people. If one wishes to kill, they will use any means at their disposal to do so, be it a knife, a baseball bat, or even a frying pan. Shall we outlaw those items as well? Shall we ban cars because of fatal traffic accidents, or airplanes because they crash? How about banning gasoline, since it can be used to start fires and blow things up? Hey, what about the deaths due to electrocution each year in ones own home; surely electrical appliances should be outlawed! Heck, people get lazy and forget they shouldn't use a blow dryer in the bathtub! We're trying to protect folks here, right? It's going to take alot more than a petition to take away our weapons, sir. Oh yes, alot more; most of us will never surrender them willingly and those that do, deserve what they get. Don't forget that your so called petition only effects us law abiding American Patriots and would have no effect on the criminal element in our society. I have a question for you. If you are serious about this, do me a favor. Put a big sign in front of your home that says "THIS HOUSE IS SAFE AND GUN FREE", then scan it and put it up on your website. That way, we'll know you're true to your cause. If not, put up or shut up. Have you ever heard of Patrick Henry? In case you haven't (which is a very good possibility) he is the one that made the famous declaration that ignited our revolution and it was, "Give me liberty or give me death!" That passion still runs in the veins of every true American, sir. It would not be a good idea to forget that. In liberty forever, Barbara Alford ************************************************************************ PETITION TO BAN ALL GUNS IN THE UNITED STATES We, the people, are tired of having our schools invaded by psychotic youngsters. We, the people, are tired of being robbed of our political leaders by some psychotic with a gun or a rifle. We, the people, are tired of passing through metal detectors on our way to our courts and our governmental buildings. We, the people, are tired of being victimized by gun carrying criminals. While there are many long term solutions that would decrease the number of outlaw gun operators, there will always be an unacceptable number of non-compliant gun operators in a country with a population of 250 million people. We, the people, are faced with only two choices. One is to place guards, metal detectors, and other devices designed to invade the personal liberties of the citizens at every single place where the public gathers. The other alternative is to eliminate all guns and firearms from the United States of America. Given that we must choose from one of these two choices, we, the people, choose to eliminate all privately held guns and firearms from the United States of America. We, the people, therefore call upon you, our elected representatives, to enact legislation to remove all guns and firearms from private ownership. We, the people, call upon you, our elected representatives, to enact laws to: Create a one year period for the United States of America to purchase at fair market value all guns and firearms, including hand guns, rifles, and even antique guns and rifles from domestic private ownership. Prohibit and criminalize the domestic sale of guns and firearms, whether new or used. Seize and destroy any gun or firearm found after the termination of the purchase period without compensation. Prohibit and criminalize the domestic possession of a gun or firearm after the termination of the one year purchase period. Provide exemptions for governmental law enforcement agencies, the armed services, and bona fide museums. Goodbyeguns.org http://www.goodbyeguns.org/index.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:37:47 -0600 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: [Fwd: Int'l. Criminal Court - Radio Show, 2/17/01, 3:00 p.m. E.T.] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Int'l. Criminal Court - Radio Show, 2/17/01, 3:00 p.m. E.T. Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:00:36 -0500 From: "The Liberty Committee" Reply-To: "The Liberty Committee" To: "Liberty Activist" Veterans Radio Network will broadcast a show about the International Criminal Court tomorrow, Saturday, February 17 at 3:00 p.m. E.T. The show will be hosted by Jim Brosemer. Mr. Brosemer has invited Yale law professor Ruth Wedgewood and me to debate the issue. The program can be heard via the Internet by going to http://www.veteransradionetwork.com/current.html . The show is also broadcast by some radio stations throughout the U.S. Here is a description of the program written by Veterans Radio Network: We have thousands of US military deployed around the world. The men and women that serve this country are given orders everyday. Some of these orders are to bomb areas of other countries. Would you consider these "War Crimes"? The International Criminal Court would!!! Former President Clinton signed the "International Criminal Court Treaty" on December 31st, 2000. Eighteen months earlier he refused because he said it had flaws. These so called flaws are still there. Would you want your son, daughter, brother or sister to go before a group of judges from other countries and be tried for what they may consider to be war crimes? Joining Jim in the first hour is Yale Law Professor Ruth Wedgewood. Professor Wedgewood is a staunch supporter of the treaty. Kent Snyder is the Executive Director of the Liberty Committee. He is against it. We want you to call in and give us your opinion!!! This is your "Show"!!!! To ask a question or make a comment during the program, call 1-877-266-7469. Kent Snyder The Liberty Committee http://www.thelibertycommittee.org - -------- Bob in Mississippi - State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") My PGP Public Key(s): RKBA! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 01 13:10:57 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Conservative activists: What issues matter the most? (fwd) On Feb 17, Charles Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] SENT FYI.///////////////// >From: WBracken1@aol.com >Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 06:06:14 EST >Subject: Conservative activists: What issues matter the most? >To: WBracken1@aol.com >X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 129 > > >FOLKS, IF YOU'RE NOT A MEMBER YOU SHOULD BE. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >William Bracken: > >This e-mail is a keeper. You'll want to pass this website on to your >contact list right away: > > http://www.SixtySecondActivist.com/ >AOL: CLICK HERE > >Conservatives across America -- the "sleeping giants" in U.S. politics -- >have finally woken up. > >The liberals, the Democrats, and their allies in the media pushed us too >far... and we said, "ENOUGH!" > >They tried to steal the Presidential election... and we stopped them. > >They tried to "bork" John Ashcroft... and we stopped them. > >Conservatives are fired up -- ready to get involved more than ever before. >We've seen what an effect we can have, and we know we can't back down now. > >And the tool we used to win -- the tool we need to keep using so >effectively -- is the Internet. > >Hundreds of thousands of conservatives went online to sign petitions, send >e-mails, send faxes, send Western Union mailgrams, and more. E-mail alert >after e-mail alert was passed along to friends, relatives, co-workers, and >acquaintances, who then took action and spread the word even further. > >One good example: Senate Democrats almost *begged* us to stop our online >activists from faxing them and demanding they vote to confirm John >Ashcroft for Attorney General. All told, we helped send over 250,000 faxes >to ALL 50 DEMOCRATIC SENATORS -- an unprecedented feat. > >Now is our chance to build on that momentum! ConservativeHQ.com, Your >Conservative Home on the Web, has begun a new FREE project: The >Sixty-Second Activist Club. > >Each day, members receive a brief email message outlining an issue. They >then just click on a link to send an email or to find out what else they >need to do to defeat a liberal proposal or pass a conservative bill. It's >Free... It's Quick... It's Easy... and It's Exciting! > >But we need YOUR help. We need to know what YOU believe are the most >important issues that conservatives will need to take action on -- either >for or against -- in the next few months. > >Will you take just sixty seconds of your time right now to complete our >online survey? > > http://survey.SixtySecondActivist.com/ >AOL: CLICK HERE > >Thank you for your help. Let's "fight the good fight" -- >together, we can make this a better America! > >Yours in victory, > >Richard Viguerie, President >ConservativeHQ.com > >P.S. Once you've completed the survey, don't forget to sign up to join the >Sixty Second Activist Club -- it FREE: > > http://www.SixtySecondActivist.com/ >AOL: CLICK HERE > >------------------------------------------------------------ > >ConservativeHQ.com - Your Conservative HeadQuarters on the Web! >http://www.ConservativeHQ.com/ >AOL: CLICK HERE > >Like ConservativeHQ.com? Click to Recommend-It (r) to your >friends, and you could win $10,000! > > >------------------------------ >A Christian Patriot > Hosea 4:6 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 01 14:25:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Partisan Politics (fwd) On inv oralid,, Albert T. Viar wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] PARTISAN POLITICS The perception that our military personnel are serving to protect our nation from foreign agression is a noble one. If it were a true perception, it would be divine. The sad truth is that our current military is riddled by mental misfits, traitors who wear the United Nations Blue Helmets and/or Patch and do the bidding of a hostile foreign power, the United Nations. During the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, we did not understand the communist underpinnings of the United Nations. Now, we do not have that excuse. We now need the competent and the brave soldiers who actually intend to serve and to protect to join us in the private sector and organize and train effective civilian Partisans to defend our nation from United Nations agression. I have served in the U.S. Navy and did take an oath to serve and protect our nation from all agressors, foreign and domestic. I left active service before treasonous `President' John F. Kennedy sold our nation down the Communist drain by signing the unconstitutional surrender of our nation to the United Nations and its landed entity, ISRAEL with the Department of State Document #7277 in 1961. My oath was not compromised by Kennedy's later action. That oath still rings true after 40 years. I am still defending our nation from all agressors, both foreign and domestic. I am publishing The Adams County Patriot's League, an expose of the Communist/Socialist/Globalist takedown of Planet Earth. I provide many of the names of those actively promoting the destruction of our nation, the names of those who have sworn an oath to support our great Constitutional Republic, but instead sell us out to a foreign power at each opportunity, and many of the names of those who, while alive, aided that subversion. The Adams County Patriot's League is a publication dedicated to the restoration of our Constitutional Republic and Constitutional government. Failing in that, The Adams County Patriot's League offers targets of opportunity for all those Patriots in the private sector who realize time is short and are wondering where the enemy lies. For your targeting information, the names of many of those treasonous and seditious individuals and organizations are plainly displayed within the pages of The Adams County Patriot's League. At this point in time, there are 63 issues in print and in general circulation. There are no subscription fees. Copies or samples may be obtained by communicating with me. Albert T. Viar 836 Maine Street Quincy, Illinois 62301 (217) 228-3207 hodag3@rnet.com Editor of The Adams County Patriot's League [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 01 11:36:19 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Ashcroft May Teach Lefties to Love Guns (fwd) Now here's one you don't see the likes of every day..... On Feb 17, Rich Martin wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Source: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=10466 Ashcroft May Teach Lefties to Love Guns Knute Berger, AlterNet February 13, 2001 I have never understood why the left in this country has decided to unilaterally disarm. Why is it that liberal civil libertarians are always gung ho on the constitution, until it gets to the Second Amendment which was what, written in invisible ink? In trying to stake out some kind of moral high ground, the left has abandoned not a only a basic right, but a potent symbol. Face it, in America, you only get respect if you're packing. The right has known this for a long time: guns are as American as John Wayne, as righteous as Charleton Heston, as cool as the latest, hipster noir revival film (Snatch comes to mind). But more importantly, the militias, patriots, NRA-nuts, and neo-Confederates comprise an important -- and much pandered-to -- Republican constituency. Their guns, and the money that goes with them, have gained them the attention of the media and the powerful. Unlike Barry Goldwater, their extremism in the defense of liberty has been good politics. Now one of the big panderers is Attorney General, John Ashcroft, a man who loves to toss around right-wing code words that mean something to the far political fringe. He defends gun rights as a bulwark against the "tyranny" of government and judicial activism, and he extols the virtues of "southern patriots." As the left faces the possible -- even likely -- tyranny of a far-right Republican regime, isn't it time to lock and load? The left has been reluctant to ally itself with the right on many issues, even when they agree. Notice that few activists have embraced Pat Buchanan for his stance against the World Trade Organization. Partly it's principle, not wanting to associate with racists, anti-Semites, or religious fanatics. It's also partly snobbery, avoiding the trailer trash side of the cultural divide. The result is that many liberals looked the other way at the outrages at Ruby Ridge and Waco, or at the depradations against privacy and police restraint under Attorney General Janet Reno and Bill Clinton. They scoffed when the NRA fundraisers called federal cops "stormtroopers." Well, now that the government is in new hands, is the left having any second thoughts? Does anyone really believe that Ashcroft's ATF will be any more compassionate than Janet Reno's? It's not like lefty activists have abandoned violence entirely. The Earth Liberation Front and other so-called eco-terrorists are torching trophy homes that sprawl into the last lots of wilderness (or Long Island). The Black Bloc anarchists of Eugene and elsewhere are ever-eager to make a statement by smashing glass at the nearest Starbucks or Niketown. Of course, they don't like to call such acts violence because, they rationalize, acts against property aren't violence, because private property itself is violence. Whatever. The fact remains that some elements of the left are resorting to actions that make simple gun ownership for self-defense, or any other legal reason, seem downright lame. After all, target shooting, it seem to me, is much less violent than burning down a ski resort. If the mainstream left was honest with itself, it would end its pious moralizing about guns and recognize that violence is sometimes an effective political tool. An even greater tool is the threat of violence. In Seattle, a group of pro-gun progressives, Democrats for the Second Amendment, got together with a group called Cease Fear to offer NRA handgun training to gay and lesbians. The training was also sponsored by a variety of organizations, including the Microsoft Gun Club, the local Libertarian Party, and the Jewish Defense League. While Cease Fear focuses on basic gun safety training, it was also designed to help people get over the idea that guns are for rednecks only. Jonathan Rauch, in a Salon article called "Pink Pistols," argues that guns can not only protect gays, but empower them the way self-defense has empowered Jews. "Guns can do the same thing for homosexuals: emancipate them from their image -- often internalized -- of cringing weakness. Pink pistols, I'll warrant, would do far more for the self-esteem of the next generation of gay men and women than any number of hate crime laws or antidiscrimination statutes." Rauch wants to make gay-bashing dangerous. To that end, Cease Fear unveiled new T-shirts for last spring's Gay Pride parade: and delta symbol with a fist holding a handgun and the words "Bash this!" In that spirit, the time is ripe for liberals to overcome their Second-Amendment reluctance, embrace gun rights, praise Gaia and pass the ammunition. It's time to test the tolerance of the Bush administration's new chief law enforcement officer by seeing how far he'll go to protect those who also abhor tyranny, but from the opposite end of the political spectrum. It's time to say, "Hey Ashcroft, bash this!" [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 01 13:28:24 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Dr. Martin Fackler is America's foremost forensic expert on ballistic injuries. (fwd) On Feb 19, Kevin M. McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Williams" To: "KL7DW" Sent: Monday, 19 February, 2001 12:01 PM Subject: Dr. Martin Fackler is America's foremost forensic expert on ballistic injuries. From: NewsMax.com Feb 18,2001 Firearms in America: The Facts Martin L. Fackler, MD Monday, Dec. 25, 2000 I must confess to being a member of a very dangerous group. I am a physician: We cause more than 100,000 deaths per year in the USA by mistakes and various degrees of carelessness in treating our patients. Why does society tolerate us? Because we save far more patients than we kill. Firearms are entirely analogous. Although used in far fewer deaths* - they are used to prevent about 75 crimes for each death. Firearms, like physicians, prevent far more deaths than they cause. (Gary Kleck, "Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America," Hawthorne, N.Y., Aldine de Gruyter Publisher, 1991) Consider the implications of the fact that firearms save many more lives than they take. That means decreasing the number of firearms would actually cause an increase in violent crime and deaths from firearms. This inverse relationship between the number of firearms in the hands of the public and the amount of violent crime has, in fact, been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. (John R. Lott Jr., "More Guns Less Crime," University of Chicago Press, 1998) History supports the inverse firearm-crime relationship. In "Firearms Control - A Study of Armed Crime and Firearms Control" in England and Wales (London, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1972, p. 243), Chief Inspector Colin Greenwood found that: No matter how one approaches the figures, one is forced to the rather startling conclusion that the use of firearms in crime was very much less when there were no controls of any sort. . Half a century of strict controls on pistols has ended, perversely, with a far greater use of this class of weapons in crime than ever before. In Tasmania, Australia, on 28 April 1996, a lone gunman killed 35 and wounded 21 at the Port Arthur Historic Site. The Australian legislature reacted by outlawing self-loading rifles and pump as well as self-loading shotguns. One year after the massive confiscation of guns the effects of this action became clear. Every category of violent crime had increased; the most striking was a 300 percent increase in assaults against the elderly. Those demented persons who have expressed their frustration by a shooting spree have apparently retained enough good sense to choose places where those shot would almost certainly be unarmed: a schoolyard in Stockton, Calif., the Columbine High School, a Jewish day care center in Los Angeles, a Long Island Rail Road car (due to the highly restrictive ban on handgun carry permits in New York). The emotional reaction to these incidents, attempting to make certain places "gun free" zones, for example, revealed a striking lack of rational thought. Apparently those pushing for "gun free" zones failed to recognize that the perpetrators of these incidents chose their sites specifically because they were already essentially "gun free" areas - practically guaranteeing no armed resistance to foil their plans. Such gun-restrictive proposals are a certain recipe for making the situation worse. Lott's studies have shown that such mass shootings essentially disappear in states that pass laws allowing qualified citizens to carry concealed handguns (The American Enterprise, July-August, 1998). Consider the steadily decreasing rate of violent crime over the past eight years. An article in USA Today (K Johnson, 9 Oct 00, 3A) reported "Gun injuries in crimes fall 40% in 5 years." This stark decline has occurred concomitantly with a constant rise in the number of firearms in the hands of the American public. This strongly supports the "more guns less crime" relationship verified by Kleck, Lott, history, and common sense. This steady decrease has brought the current percentage of gun violence in the USA to its lowest rate in the past three to four decades. One would expect the anti-gun groups to be pleased and to moderate their goals. Instead, apparently rankled by the facts proving their theories dead wrong, they are promoting increasingly prohibitive gun laws with ever-increasing zeal. Could it be that the media attention bestowed upon their cause has become addictive? Certainly, legislators have found the free TV time given to their anti-gun tirades something they cannot live without. I suggest that a reason for the decreasing crime rate, caused in part by the increasing number of guns, lies, perversely and ironically, in the counterproductive exaggerations and incessant repetitions, by the TV media, of each and every bloody shooting they can find. This has frightened and misled the public into believing the threat from guns is ever increasing, rather than decreasing sharply, and has whetted their appetites for firearms to defend themselves. Thus the public has bought more firearms - which has further decreased the violence from firearms. There is a perception among gun owners that they are being treated irrationally as legislators pander to the misinformed majority who are being swayed by emotional appeals that fly in the face of the studies cited above, history, and basic common sense. They feel that legislators should be obliged to soberly consider the facts and not have their votes dictated by blind, unthinking, and most often counterproductive, emotion. Consider firearm registration: being increasingly promoted by nearly all anti-gun groups - and politicians. These promoters neglect to explain why or how they expect firearm registration to prevent future violence; especially since, historically, such restrictive laws have always proven ineffective or counterproductive - most often causing a marked increase in violent crime, as shown in the examples given above. We already know how honest, formerly law-abiding, citizens will react to irrational laws requiring them to register their firearms. California has taught us. After Purdy's shooting spree on the Stockton schoolyard in 1989, the Californian legislature passed a law requiring the registration of all "assault rifles." In the emotional frenzy following that shooting incident, everybody expected legislators to pass such a restrictive law. What happened? The price of "assault rifles" tripled in California. Many tens of thousands of these rifles poured into California before the law went into effect. Then came the time for registration. Very few "assault rifle" owners chose to obey the law. It is uncertain how many criminals were created by this irrational law, but most estimate that fewer than 10 percent of the "assault rifles" in California were registered. If an estimated several hundred thousand "assault rifle" owners in California chose to become criminals rather than obey an irrational law, how many gun owners nationwide can we expect to do the same if required to register their guns? Most of the facts explained above are unknown to the majority of the American public. The pro-gun political activists spend so much time harping on the Second Amendment that they tend to overlook the factual proof that decreasing the number of guns increases violence, and vice-versa. Additionally, I believe that most Americans consider their right to protect themselves and their families a far more fundamental right than the Second Amendment. Many honest gun owners are now frightened. They have every reason to be. Few of the facts outlined above have been revealed by a media that, instead, gives full play to the emotionally based appeals and flagrant exaggerations of the anti-gun groups. These gun owners fear that they will be forced into a difficult moral decision: Do they obey a law requiring them to register their firearms, when they are fully aware of the irrationality and counterproductive nature of such a law? Or are they morally obligated to disobey such an unjust law - and thus become a criminal? Our forefathers faced a similar moral dilemma. Had most of them chosen to obey, we would still be a colony of England. We must separate, dispassionately, the clearly established facts about firearms in the USA from emotionally based opinions, exaggerations, and falsehoods. No rational approach to any problem is possible until this is done. I worry that irrational restrictive measures, such as mandated gun registration, will result in a massive backlash of civil disobedience - not by drug-dazed teenagers, but by sober, honest, and mature adults who are well-armed and proficient in the use of their weapons. That could tear this country apart. *Footnote. When anti-gun activists list the number of deaths per year from firearms, they neglect to mention that 60 percent of the 30,000 figure they often use are suicides. They also fail to mention that at least three-quarters of the 12,000 homicides are criminals killing other criminals in disputes over illicit drugs, or police shooting criminals engaged in felonies. Subtracting those, we are left with no more than 3,000 deaths that I think most would consider truly lamentable. Dr. Martin Fackler is America's most foremost forensic expert on ballistic injuries. Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics: Guns/Gun Control E-mail this page to a friend Printer Friendly Version E-mail a Comment to NewsMax Discuss in the NewsMax Forum Reprint Information This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.printcharger.com/emailStripper.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:26:39 -0600 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: Great Article on Leftist Hate Speech The March 2001 issue of _The_American_Enterprise_ has a great article on leftist hate speech: "Left-Wing Trash Talk," by Blake Hurst. It's also on the Web: http://www.theamericanenterprise.com/taem01c.htm The danger WRT the Constitution is that extremists, primarily (though not exclusively) on the left, are trying to ban acts and words they find offensive. By branding anything that criticizes them and their agenda as "hate" speech, they lump such things in with "hate" crimes, and then try to criminalize their opponents. We can fight back by exposing their hypocrisy and their own brand of "hate" speech; the above article does a fine job of this. It's in the spirit of the annual compilations of Jeff Jacoby and the Media Research Center ( http://www.mrc.org/ ). - -- Bob in Mississippi - State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") My PGP Public Key(s): RKBA! - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 01 20:44:22 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Legalities (fwd) On Feb 20, Charles Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Date: 20 Feb 2001 18:57:32 CST >(Sent from a friend) > > > These are quotes people actually said in court, word for word, taken > > down and > > now published by court reporters who had the torment of staying calm > > while > > these exchanges were taking place: > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: What is your date of birth? > > A: July fifteenth. > > Q: What year? > > A: Every year. > > > > +++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: All your responses must be oral, OK? What school did you go to? > > A: Oral. > > > > +++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: What gear were you in at the moment of the impact? > > A: Gucci sweats and Reeboks. > > > > +++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: How old is your son, the one living with you? > > A: Thirty-eight or thirty-five, I can't remember which. > > Q: How long has he lived with you? > > A: Forty-five years. > > > > +++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: This myasthenia gravis, does it affect your memory at all? > > A: Yes. > > Q. And in what way does it affect your memory? > > A: I forget. > > Q: You forget. Can you give us an example of something that you've > > forgotten? > > > > +++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: What was the first thing your husband said to you when he woke >that > > > morning? > > A: He said, "Where am I, Cathy?" > > Q: And why did that upset you? > > A: My name is Susan. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: And where was the location of the accident? > > A: Approximately milepost 499. > > Q: And where is milepost 499? > > A: Probably between milepost 498 and 500. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Sir, what is your IQ? > > A: Well, I can see pretty well, I think. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Did you blow your horn or anything? > > A: After the accident? > > Q: Before the accident. > > A: Sure, I played for ten years. I even went to school for it. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Do you know if your daughter has ever been involved in voodoo or >the > > occult? > > A: We both do. > > Q: Voodoo? > > A: We do. > > Q: You do? > > A: Yes, voodoo. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Trooper, when you stopped the defendant, were your red and blue > > lights > > flashing? > > A: Yes. > > Q: Did the defendant say anything when she got out of her car? > > A: Yes, sir. > > Q: What did she say? > > A: What disco am I at? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: The youngest son, the twenty-year old, how old is he? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Were you present when your picture was taken? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: So the date of conception (of the baby) was August eighth? > > A: Yes. > > Q: And what were you doing at that time? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: She had three children, right? > > A: Right. > > Q: How many were boys? > > A: None. > > Q: Were there any girls? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: You say the stairs went down to the basement? > > A: Yes > > Q: And these stairs, did they go up also? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: How was your first marriage terminated? > > A: By death. > > Q: And by whose death was it terminated? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Can you describe the individual? > > A: He was about medium height and had a beard. > > Q: Was this a male, or a female? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Is your appearance here this morning pursuant to a deposition >notice > > which I sent to your attorney? > > A: No, this is how I dress when I go to work. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Doctor, how many autopsies have you performed on dead people? > > A: All my autopsies are performed on dead people. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Do you recall the time that you examined the body? > > A: The autopsy started around 8:30 p.m. > > Q: And Mr. Dennington was dead at that time? > > A: No, he was sitting on the table wondering why I was doing an > > autopsy. > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Are you qualified to give a urine sample? > > > > ++++++++++++++++ > > > > Q: Doctor, before you performed the autopsy, did you check for a >pulse? > > A: No. > > Q: Did you check for blood pressure? > > A: No. > > Q: Did you check for breathing? > > A: No. > > Q: So, then it is possible that the patient was alive when you began > > the > > autopsy? > > A: No. > > Q: How can you be so sure, Doctor? > > A: Because his brain was sitting on my desk in a jar. > > Q: But could the patient have still been alive nevertheless. > > A: Yes, it is possible that he could have been alive and practicing > > law somewhere. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #428 *************************