From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #430 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Sunday, February 25 2001 Volume 02 : Number 430 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Feb 01 15:31:41 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Knocking the testosterone out of US. (fwd) On Feb 22, Rich Martin wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Knocking the testosterone out of US. This guy is on to something. We know the country has been being feminized. We know the feds have been having their way with our schools. We know students aren't being educated in the 3 R's. Could it be they are knocking the testosterone out of US? Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ frdm2000@wi.net writes: << THOUGHTS on TREASON... NATHAN HALE, died as a patriot in our Revolutionary War, saying before his death, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose/give for my country." SIR JOHN HARRINGTON (1561-1612), "Treason doth never prospr; what's the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason." 1. ROBERT PHILIP HANSSEN, The "well-educated" spy for the Soviet Union/Russia for the last 15 years has betrayed his country, the USA. 2. MARCUS RICH, an "American/international" fugitive pardoned by the impeached-president roams wild in the world betraying his country, the U.S.A. with great gifts to the ex-impeached president, Clinton. 3. UNITED NATIONS- The U.S. and its official bodies in Washington,D.C. have been turning over our political, economic, judicial sovereignty to the United Nations which is the global atheist/socialist bureaucracy. 4. THE IMPEACHED-PRESIDENT CLINTON-Obviously received millions in Communist Chinese money to influence his/Democrat election in 2000. Remember the Clinton scandals with American technology transferred to the Chinese Communists without permission from Congress. 5. THE PANAMA CANAL-was given away the first time in 1979 by the Carter Administration and the Democrat-controlled US Senate which is now a base for the Chinese Communists that facilitate ports on both ends. Reflection, as a now-retired American History teacher/and Constitutionalist: I wonder if the "dumbed-down" patriotism of our even "educated" citizenry has created generations that put the U. S.A. last over globalist interests and further know not the sacrifices of our many heroic Americans who died fighting to defend our country's name and freedoms. Has the national, individual character become rotten from within due to cowardice partnered with ignorance learned in government schools in our present times? Yes One further wonders about the political phrase by both parties when justice is mocked and our nation even threatened with, "Let's put this behind us." Well, that is what Clinton said about Vince Foster's death and President George W Bush said about the trashing of our White House by the elected gangsters, the Clintons. That is a wrong way. Things should be put behind us only when justice has been honored in a nation that prattles, but does not believe, "we are a nation of law and Constitution." One further wonders, what the impeached-president Clinton would do in the present Hanssen spy case that has compromised American liberty? Would he pardon this traitor? Maybe. It seems to me we have done too much "moving on" without holding those who have done grave wrongs accountable. It is time that those who sell out their country easily through money or ignorance should be held to the principles of justice like those who work/pay taxes/fight for their country when asked/appreciate the only nation on earth where freedom is taken seriously by many. One more time, the failure to teach our countries great achievements, sacrifices, and a culture blessed by God (before abortion and the general corruption of the present) leaves our students and later adults adrift in a world culture of selfishness/materialism/secularism. Generations of American students "educated" in government schools where nobleness /sacrifice is mocked share in the culpability of the decline of the American nation. >> Cut out the middlemen. Send donations to: Boys Scouts of America National HQ 1329 Walnut Hill Ln. Irving, TX 75162 http://www.SaveOurScouts.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 01 15:34:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The liberal 10 commandments (fwd) On Feb 23, Jim Zoes wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.worldnetdaily.com/letters.asp TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 2001 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The liberal Ten Commandments - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Liberals haven't exactly dumped the Ten Commandments. They've just replaced ancient wisdom with more evolved moral rules. Let's enjoy liberals' Ten Happy Dictates: 1. You are your own god; you shall not have any other god before yourself. (But remember, your little deity exists to serve latte, safe sex and progressive government.) 2. You shall not take the names of Darwin, Marx, Mao, Roosevelt or Clinton in vain. (But do mock the names of Christ, Solzhenitsyn, John Paul II, Reagan and Starr.) 3. Remember to keep holy Earth Day, National Coming Out Day and May Day. (But do plan other activities for the Sabbath, Boy Scout Day or Chris er, Xmas.) 4. Honor your Mother Earth and her non-human life. (But get over your love affair with unevolved humans, such as crotchety parents, parasitic children and religious zealots.) 5. You shall not kill loudly or for hate, but do it quietly for love of our Earth, starting with helpless infants, old people, and others who can't resist. (But do not stop with them, once you see that you too have become a burden for our Earth.) 6. You shall not commit "adultery," but call it following your bliss or being grown-up, and be a slave to any craving to use others for thrills, whatever it costs you, them, your spouse, children or bourgeois society. (But do not try self-restraint, which might convince you that you really can be a grown-up, and be master of your cravings or your political destiny.) 7. You shall not steal from us liberals, but do as we do by taking from your own grandchildren and bourgeois taxpayers and businesses, since they deserve nothing we do not give. (But do not complain when we raise your taxes, for Darwin says that the goods of this Earth belong to those who are fit enough to take them.) 8. You shall not lie timidly, but do it boldly and glibly, telling the weak-minded that truth is an illusion, spinning plain facts into shades of gray, and using double standards to absolve liberals while condemning conservatives. (But woe unto you who forget the eternal truth that, as sure as the sun rises, you live to serve progressive government.) 9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife without acting on your envy, but help us to disarm him and corrupt her to get your way. (But do not feel guilty for any suffering you cause others, for Mao says that power belongs only to those who have no scruples about using it.) 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house if he is a liberal, but whisper to the IRS, Social Services or a judge that he doesn't conform to our views, and we'll let you grab some of his stuff. (But do not covet your neighbor's incorrect attitude, for diversity from our views is intolerable.) kerwinners [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 01 15:35:00 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: A response to "Big guns at the NRA" (fwd) On Feb 23, Jim Zoes wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Concerning you article "Big guns at the NRA put entire nation in harm's way with the the big lie" found at http://web.timesleader.com/content/leader/2001/02/17/oped/QUARTSAT.htm Science fiction author and Libertarian L. Neil Smith wrote an essay last year to discuss people like you. It's title is "Murder by Gun Control" and can be found at http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/libe68-20000331-07.html Let me paste in the few excerps: Murder by Gun Control by L. Neil Smith lneil@ezlink.com Why is everybody being so damned polite? No sane individual living in the last days of the 20th century would knowingly welcome Nazis, the KGB, the Khmer Rouge, the ATF, or the FBI into their homes. We've learned too much from what happened to Jews in Germany, Kulaks in Russia, "landlords" in China, everybody in Cambodia, and victims of state terrorism at Ruby Ridge and Waco. But let the Jackbooted Thugs' Ladies' Auxiliary slap on makeup and broomstick skirts, let them prattle in squeaky little girl voices and breathe their vegetarian breath all over us, and for some reason we think we have to ask them in and offer them chamomile tea. Well, to hell with that. I used to give a lecture at the local university that began like this: "Until this morning you could plead ignorance for positions you take or fail to take on the moral and political issues of the day. When you leave this classroom an hour from now, having heard the facts I'm about to present, it'll either be as a brand new libertarian, or as a fully self-aware fascist monster." Today I say the same to politicians, bureaucrats, cops, Handgun Control, Inc., Colorado Governor Bill Owens, and those so miserably lacking in originality that they had to plagiarize Louis Farrakan (of all people) and launch a "Million Moms March". Also, anybody else who thinks it's morally acceptable to use the hired guns of government to take everybody else's guns away. Gun control may have felt like a nice, warm, fuzzy idea to its advocates back in the 1960s. However today, owing to a great deal of serious legal and historical scholarship -- and a series of horrifying but highly educational events -- anyone who wishes to violate the fundamental covenant on which this nation is based, by attempting to outlaw personal weapons, has to get past three extremely inconvenient but absolutely incontrovertible facts. (1) Every year, in this nation of more than a quarter billion individuals, a few thousand (three quarters of them suicides) are killed with firearms, while _millions_ of Americans successfully use personal weapons to save themselves and others from injury or death. Guns save many, many times more lives than they take. (2) In every jurisdiction that has made it even microscopically easier for individuals to carry weapons, violent crime rates have plummeted by double-digit percentages. Vermont, where no permission of any kind is required to carry a gun, is named in many respectable surveys as the safest state to live in. (3) More telling and urgent, every episode of genocidal mass murder in history has been preceded by a period of intense disarming of the civil population, usually with "public safety" or "national security" as an excuse. According to Amnesty International -- hardly a gang of right wing crazies -- in the 20th century alone (in events entirely separate from war), governments have slaughtered more than a hundred million people, usually their own citizens. The U.S. is far from immune. Look up "Operation Keelhaul". ... Let's ask some questions that everybody on my side's been too polite -- too damned polite -- to ask before. What kind of mind would sacrifice millions for the sake of a few thousands, especially when it's been demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that victim disarmament can't save even those thousands? What kind of mind wants a return to mean streets and ever-soaring crime rates? What kind of mind collaborates with agents of mass murder and genocide? Make no mistake: you victim disarmament types are sick, sick people, in the words of T.D. Melrose, who'd rather see a woman raped in an alley and strangled with her own pantyhose than see her with a gun in her hand. You're people, down deep in your blackened, shriveled souls, who wait like vultures, secretly delighted whenever atrocities like the Columbine shootings occur -- atrocities whose only significance to you is their usefulness in advancing your political agenda. Dancing in the blood of innocents, just like the lying, thieving, murdering rapist you've sent to the White House twice in a row. You're people who, like German voters in the 1930s, have empowered and unleashed on your decent and unsuspecting neighbors the most evil and violent terrorist bureaucracy in American history. You're people, in short, who must be stupid, insane, or evil to continue arguing -- in the face of indisputable facts and irrefutable logic - -- that others must be forced into a state of helplessness and victimized by individual criminals or the state. Stupid, insane, or evil. End excerpts - -------------------------------------------------- That's the question I kept asking, Mr. Quarteroni, as I read your article. Stupid, insane, or evil? The stupids support gun control because they are unable to understand the endgame of what happens when a government turns tyranical and the people are disarmed. They have no idea how Hitler and Stalin used the gun control laws to precipitate the death camps and the Gulags. Try as we might, the stupids just don't get it, even after presenting them tyranny's score card of the 20th Century. Go to http://www.jpfo.org/L-laws.htm and see which laws the author of Mein Kampf used to drag 6 million jews to the death camps. By the way, this chart is incomplete. It's missing Rawanda and Sierra Leon. The insane include those who know that gun control does not work, or who know from history that innocent people are murdered by their governments. Yet they think that *this* time, gun control won't result in a tyranical government comming to power with the monopoly of violence -- or the Gulags. Or criminals preying on the rest of us with impunity. After all, is it not insanity to continue to advocate something that has bad consequences? Then there is the class of people that are evil. I'm sure you understand the nature of this appellation. After all you used it to slander the 4.5 members of the National Rifle Association -- of which I am one. Evil people do things in the full knowledge of, and with the cold blooded intention of, achieving an evil outcome -- like the murder of millions of your fellow citizens sometime in the future after you have disarmed them. By every account, Hitler was evil. He certainly did what he promised when he wrote Mein Kampf. I certainly do not consider myself or my fellow NRA members evil just because we intend to stop you from turning us into disarmed victims. So, Mr. Quarteroni; which are you: Stupid, Insane, or Evil? Jim Zoes Woodstock, IL [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 01 14:39:31 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: GUN RIGHTS ASSAULT (fwd) On Feb 25, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Something to think about. :) Ken - ----- Original Message ----- From: "spiker" To: Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: GUN RIGHTS ASSAULT > From: Rogrocks69@aol.com > > GUN RIGHTS ASSAULT: In the last election, most of America's gun owners > proved that they were disinterested in preserving their Second Amendment > rights, so the gun banners in Congress are back to their old tricks. Gun > owners disinterested in preserving their rights? Apparently. Consider: > There are about 80 million gun owners in this country. George W. Bush got > about 50 million votes, and all the third party candidates less than 5 > million votes combined. So even if every one of Bush's and the others > votes came from a gun owner, that leaves at least 25 million (probably more > like 40 or 50 million) gun owners who either voted for Gore, or didn't > bother to vote at all. With 25 million more votes for Bush, we wouldn't > have been arguing over a few hundred votes in Florida, and wouldn't have > to listen to yapping from the left about how Gore "really won" the > election. But 25 million, or more, gun owners didn't bother to vote, or > voted for Gore. So let's hear no self-serving blather from gun owners > about how their rights are being stolen -- gun owners themselves are > giving their rights away. Following are some of the bills that have > already been submitted in Congress, and Roll Call reports that John McCain > is collaborating with Joe Lieberman on another bill to further undermine > the Second Amendment. If this is true, it appears that McCain's respect > for the Second Amendment is as weak as his respect for the First > Amendment. No wonder he wants campaign finance reform, and spending > restrictions in order to silence independent groups that would reveal his > collaboration with the totalitarian, gun-grabbing left. > > H.R.278: Gun Buy Back Partnership Grant Act of 2001 (Kennedy, D-RI): money > for gun buy back programs. > > H.R.70: Child Gun Safety and Gun Access Prevention Act of 2001 > (Jackson-Lee, D-TX): to prevent children's access to firearms. > > H.R.225: Anti-Gunrunning Act of 2001 (Wexler, D-FL; Nadler, D-NY; Moran, > D-VA): to prevent illegal commerce in handguns. > > H.R.408: Gun Ballistics Safety Act of 2001 (Andrews, D-NJ): for a national > database of ballistics information about firearms. > > H.R.423: Gun Retrieval to Build Safer Communities Act (Becerra, D-CA): to > allow a tax credit for the value of firearms turned in to local law > enforcement agencies. > > S.16: 21st Century Law Enforcement, Crime Prevention, and Victims > Assistance Act (Daschle, D-SD): funding for additional federal, state, and > local gun prosecutors and gun enforcement teams; youth Crime Gun > Interdiction Initiative; extension of Brady background checks to gun shows. > > H.R.422: Bullet Tracing Act To Reduce Gun Violence (Becerra, D-CA): > ballistics testing of the firearms that are most commonly used in crime for > the purpose of curbing the use of firearms in crime. > > H.R.255: Safer America For Everyone's Children (SAFE Children) Act > (Gilman, R-NY): federal funds for gun buyback programs, school violence > initiatives, and child care during non-school hours. > > H.R.499: To amend the Consumer Product Safety Act (Engel, D-NY; Markey > (D-MA): to confirm the Consumer Product Safety Commission's jurisdiction > over child safety devices for handguns. > > S.25: Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2001 (Feinstein, D-CA; > Schumer, D-NY; and Boxer, D-CA): a system of licensing for purchasers of > firearms and a record of sale system for those firearms. > > Set against those 10 bills, a mere 3 have been proposed to protect the > right to keep and bear arms: > > H.R.31: Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2001 (Bartlett, R-MD): to protect > the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense > of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right. > > H.R.507: Child Safety and Home Security Act of 2001 (Hilleary, R-TN): a > tax credit to buy a residential safe storage device for the safe storage of > firearms. > > H.R.123: Firearms Heritage Protection Act of 2001 (Barr, R-GA): to > prohibit civil liability actions against firearms or ammunition > manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers for the misuse of their > products by others. > > > Roger Johnson [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 01 14:40:55 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Gun Humor P.O.'s Canadian Cops (Barniskis) (fwd) On Feb 25, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Just for grins. :) Ken - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tee" To: Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 10:27 AM Subject: Fwd: Gun Humor P.O.'s Canadian Cops (Barniskis) > From: GunOwnersNJ@aol.com > Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:02:00 EST > Subject: Gun Humor P.O.'s Canadian Cops (Barniskis) > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > > Friends: > > Eventually it will have to be illegal to THINK about weapons, so > enjoy this while you can. . . ;-) > > --Andy > > -------------------- > > > The following article from a Canadian newspaper caused me to > grin a little as I imagined the mischief one might be able > to provoke with such an item. The Canadian gun owners are > getting more militant than I had previously believed > possible. I doubt I would put one of these in my back > window, but then I'm just a whimp anyway.:-) > -- > Keep Smilin' > Fred > > Cogito, ergo armaro. > ===================================================== > Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:30:43 -0500 > From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" > Subject: COPS TAKE SHOTS AT GUN STICKERS > > PUBLICATION: The Edmonton Sun > DATE: 2001.02.23 > SECTION: News > PAGE: 26 > SOURCE: Sun Media > BYLINE: Peter Smith > DATELINE: Calgary > KEYWORDS: Weapon; Alberta > > - > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > COPS TAKE SHOTS AT GUN STICKERS; COULD CAUSE 'ALL KINDS OF > GRIEF' > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > > Psssst! Wanna buy a sawed-off shotgun? > > Or, better still, a Thompson machine-. > > Or how about a top-of-the-line M-16 with an attached > grenade-launcher. > > If so, there's a man you need to meet. He can give you the > feeling of power of owning any one of these deadly weapons, > and it won't cost you too much. > > Calgarian Aires da Cruz has designed the next best thing - > full-size, full-colour stickers depicting these guns which > motorists can stick across the back window of their pickup > trucks. > > "From even a few metres away they look like the real thing," > he said. > > "The sawed-off shotgun has tape around the butt, and they > look very realistic." > > Da Cruz is expecting to fix the first 30 "lethal-weapon" > stickers on trucks tomorrow and is hoping they'll catch on > so everyone will want one. > > City police aren't nearly so excited. > > "Someone with one of these stickers might well find himself > being taken down by police at gunpoint, if officers think > (the) is on display," said Insp. Keith Pollock. > > Da Cruz said he'd spoken with police about his planned > stickers and was told they aren't illegal. > > But officers are worried they could cause confusion - not to > mention blocking a driver's vision and causing a traffic > hazard. > > "Someone with a sticker like that could find himself with > all kinds of grief," said Insp. Peter Jackson. > > But da Cruz has great faith that Calgary's finest will > realize what's going on and see the stickers for what they > are. > > Moderator note: Sorry I could not resist, but how are the > cops gonna make this, "stick"? IRP [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 01 14:36:15 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: IBT vs. JBT (fwd) On Feb 24, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] For you Sue, >From Jon Roland - he explains how you can be an independent contractor. Cliff, do you want this subject closed? :-) Margi Subject: [Lis-LEAF] Re: Worden, the IBT, and the cause of liberty Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:35:32 -0800 From: Jon Roland To: Carl Worden "What we have here is a failure to communicate." It is important in commenting on events of constitutional import that one not appear to justify the unconstitutional actions of officials or their agents, and although Carl Worden has explained his original message as not intending to do that, it certainly read that way to me. The Indianapolis Baptist Temple (IBT) is a critical test case for the cause of liberty. Worden's position seems to be that of realism: If a truck runs a light and over you, then flees the scene, it doesn't help you much to claim you were crossing with the light in a designated crosswalk. You needed to have watched for illegally operated vehicles and taken evasive action, if possible, and not just stood there arguing that you had a right to be there doing what you were doing. As a tactical policy, the above statement is certainly valid, for crossing a street at a particular time, since one can always cross a few moments later when it is safer. It becomes another matter when you are boxed in to a tactically unsustainable position from which you have to leave to meet vital needs, and you are subject to attack at every exit. We can agree that even by the feds' own tax "code", the IBT workers were either grant recipients, undistinguishable in their situations from anyone else who receives grants for community service work, or independent contractors, and therefore not liable for an "income tax". As it happens, to protect the church, they filed and paid their "taxes" anyway, were audited, and found to owe nothing further. The church was sued for failing to collect withholding, even though the "taxes" had been paid, and even though there is no law requiring any "employer" to withhold taxes from anybody. It has been argued that it was incidental that the "employer" in this case happened to be a church. Sorry, but I don't buy that. The IBT was clearly targeted for special treatment, and we have to ask why. It wasn't just because the feds wanted to make an example of an "employer". It was because they wanted to make an example of a church, because churches are among the last remaining holdouts against government control, and tyranny can't stand having any potential source of opposition beyond their control. The solution is for churches, and people generally, to not become attached to money or property, or compromise any principled positions because of fear of the loss of it. We all have to learn to operate without it, or else create our own for our private use. But the need to do that will strengthen us. Walls do not a church make. It is important to understand the motivation of tyranny. I recommend (re-)reading Orwell's 1984, which we have online. Power is an addictive drug. Tyrants are characterized by two linked attributes: a deep sense of insecurity that feels threatened by anything they don't control, and a tendency to overestimate the degree and kind of control that they can exercise over events, leading them to seek to exercise control that is impossible to achieve, but which they will mindlessly continue to pursue anyway. We can assume it is not a coincidence that the IBT church building is seized at about the same time GWB announces a plan to federally fund "faith-based" community service activities, thereby seeking to bring them under federal control, if only by putting their agents into every church, something they already do, but intend to expand. Infiltrate and control potential centers of resistance. Disarm the population. Erode civil liberties. Corrupt the courts. Suppress independent suppliers of opiates, leaving the elites with a monopoly. Make fiat money an opiate on which the majority of the population depends. Control the media. We've seen it all before. Nothing new about any of this. Forget invasion by foreign forces - -- we are already being invaded by our own -- and we the constitutional militia are the last hope for freedom in not only this country but the world. The technology of tyranny may make it impossible for freedom to ever arise again if we don't stop tyranny now. Spread the word. - --Jon =================================================================== Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825 916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM Date: 02/24/01 Time: 11:42:10 http://www.constitution.org/ mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org ================================================ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 01 14:43:19 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: So send her some - I did (fwd) On Feb 25, Mike Ryan wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Stories of guns that do good are simply too few and far between By Laura Berman / The Detroit News The case of Marshall Mathers III, also known as Eminem, presents = one more failed argument for the value of concealed weapon permits.=20 As Macomb County's most famous resident, he applied in late 1999 for = a CCW permit -- and won approval from the county gun board. Members were = impressed at the time by the rapper's politeness and humility, says Carl = Marlinga, Macomb County prosecutor.=20 Eminem met the county's requirements for a concealed gun permit. No = criminal record. Model citizen, more or less.=20 But after deciding he needed to carry a gun, Eminem's clean record = turned shady. He failed to complete the county's required safety = training course, and so didn't qualify for the permit.=20 Then he carried the gun anyhow. Wound up brandishing his weapon at a = man in a Warren parking lot just a few months later.=20 Mathers pleaded guilty to carrying a weapon without a permit last = week.=20 About the same time, I sat in a church full of mourners for Sherlyn = Fleming, a retired police officer who died in a Detroit dry-cleaners. = She was courageous, tragically so.=20 Gun advocates love to suggest that law-abiding citizens can protect = themselves and their families with guns. Fleming had the qualifications = to defend herself and others. She was a public safety educator with a = 25-year career in law enforcement, carrying a legal weapon.=20 Ultimately, though, a thug in a ski mask who cared little about human = life dispensed with hers. Her family and hundreds of friends mourn her.=20 On her own, without any backup, Fleming's quick-witted attempt to = intervene in a dangerous situation ultimately inflamed it.=20 So it goes: The stories of guns -- legal or otherwise -- hurting = people are abundant: They're the stuff of everyday news briefs, not = headlines.=20 On Monday mornings, we read the tales of men, angry at their = estranged spouses, who turned guns on their families and themselves.=20 In Michigan, a law scheduled to take effect July 1 will transform = Metro Detroit's already trigger-happy landscape.=20 Unless a referendum petition drive places the issue on a statewide = ballot, we're bound to see more guns creating more problems.=20 Eminem thought a gun would help protect him from angry fans. He = worried that "his use of emotionally charged lyrics might create an aura = of violence," recalls Marlinga. Instead, his gun became a dangerous = accessory to his own emotionally charged life.=20 While thinking and writing about this issue, I've been asking friends = and correspondents for months to cite examples of guns doing good.=20 I can tell you about the neighbor whose 15-year-old daughter was = paralyzed by a friend goofing around with a gun. The horror stories are = easy.=20 So many people insist their lives are safer because they own guns. = Where, then, are the stories of guns doing good?=20 If guns do save lives and protect families, fill me in.=20 If carrying a legal weapon has improved your life in a demonstrable = way, share your story.=20 I'm still waiting to hear the story about a gun that has a happy = ending.=20 Laura Berman's column runs Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday in Metro. Reach = her at lberman@detnews.com.=20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 01 14:38:30 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: URGENT: Texas needs your support (fwd) On Feb 25, Charles Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This is a very URGENT message. Please Read./// >From: "Rev. Curt Tomlin" >Organization: The Christian Alert Network (TCAN) >To: "TCAN Alert Net 6" >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:26:26 -0600 >Subject: Texas needs your support >Reply-to: "TCAN" > >TEXAS NEEDS YOUR SUPPORT AND PARTICIPATION > >Subject: The Texas Project to"Restore, Protect, Preserve, and >Enforce the Constitution of the United States." > >On Friday, 23 February 2001, I personally delivered a four page >letter with three enclosures, to each of the 150 individual Texas >State Representatives at the State Capitol in Austin Texas. > >On Wednesday, 28 February, the same documentation packet will >also be personally delivered to each individual Texas State Senator, >at the State Capitol in Austin Texas. > >In addition to the four page cover letter, the documentation packet >contained the following enclosures: > >Enclosure # 1: Three pages of specific examples as to why the two >proposed bills are URGENTLY needed. > >Enclosure # 2: Bill # 1: "TO INVESTIGATE THE LEGALITY OF >THE ACTION OF FEDERAL AGENTS WITH REGARD TO >THE UNITED NATIONS ORGANIZATION." > >Enclosure # 3: Bill # 2: "TO PROVIDE FOR THE >ENFORCEMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED >STATES WITH REGARD TO THE SO-CALLED UNITED >NATIONS ORGANIZATION." > >The above document packet is posted in full on the TCAN website >at: http://www.vvm.com/~ctomlin/a101.htm > >As each Texas Representative responds to this action (if they do >indeed respond) that response will be posted, in its entirety, at the >bottom of the above webpage in the order the response is received. >If a TCAN reply to that response is warranted, our reply will be >appended to the bottom of the official's response. > >I have done all that I can do to get this urgent matter before each of >the Texas State Representatives and Senators .... now we need >"your" individual support. We need to let them know that ALL >freedom loving American are waiting for them to individually >demonstrate their loyalty to American Sovereignty by their >response to this action. > >No matter what state you live in, we need your participation as >follows: > >Non Texas Residents: Immediately send Texas Representative >Dianne Delisi an Email message urging her to introduce and >support the two proposed bills. Her Email address is > "Delisi, Dianne White" >You may also telephone her office in Austin Texas at > 512-463-0630, if you want to. > >Texas Residents: I will be meeting with Representative Delisi on >Wednesday 28 February at 3:00pm to discuss this matter with her. >We need ALL Texas citizens to immediately send Ms Delisi an >email message at: > "Delisi, Dianne White" >urging her to introduce and support the two proposed bills. >ALSO please telephone her office in Austin at 512-463-0630 on >Monday 26 Feb, Tuesday 27 Feb and Wednesday morning 28 Feb >and urge her to introduce and support the two bills. > >Please visit the TCAN webpage at > http://www.vvm.com/~ctomlin/a101.htm >and read the documents referred to above. > >Your support and participation is appreciated. > >Rev. "Curt" Tomlin >President >The Christian Alert Network,Inc. >POB 11746 >Killeen, Tx 76547-1746 >Ph: 254-628-7043 >Fax: 254-628-7894 >Web Site: http://www.vvm.com/~ctomlin [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #430 *************************