From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #444 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Thursday, May 31 2001 Volume 02 : Number 444 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:44:47 -0500 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: Fwd: Enumerated Powers & Republic or Democracy? May 25, 2001 Dear liberty activist, Congressman John Shadegg (Arizona) introduced H.R. 175 - The Enumerated Powers Act. H.R. 175 is a bill to require Congress to specify the constitutional authority for the enactment of laws. Congressman Ron Paul (Texas) introduced H. Con. Res. 48. The resolution is a sense of Congress in reaffirming the United States as a republic. Constitutional expert and senior legal advisor to The Liberty Committee Herbert W. Titus has written "America: Republic or Democracy?" Mr. Titus references the recent Bush/Gore election. H.R. 175 - The Enumerated Powers Act http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/bills/?bill=32086 H. Con. Res. 48 - Reaffirming the U.S. as a Republic http://capwiz.com/liberty/issues/bills/?bill=29969 "America: Republic or Democracy?" (Adobe PDF format) <<---- EXCELLENT! Great http://www.thelibertycommittee.org/repdem.pdf <<---- citations & logic. Please note that the official text of a bill that is featured in our "Current Legislation" can be found by clicking "Detailed" at the end of the description of the bill. Kent Snyder The Liberty Committee http://www.thelibertycommittee.org ***** - -- Bob in Mississippi - State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") My PGP Public Key(s): RKBA! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:29:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response Due to the long weekend, I will not read/respond to e-mail until Tuesday, 29 May 2001. - -------------------- Original Message: X-Track: 1: 40 Received: from lists.xmission.com (198.60.22.7) by mta326.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2001 12:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 153jkF-0000yf-00 for roc-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:29:03 -0600 Received: from [207.43.239.4] (helo=brutus.datastar.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 153jkB-0000xt-00 for roc@lists.xmission.com; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:29:00 -0600 Received: from datastar.net ([207.43.239.238]) by brutus.datastar.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-58149U3000L300S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:30:59 -0500 Message-ID: <3B0FF99F.501AC52E@datastar.net> Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:44:47 -0500 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Organization: The Southern Gun Culture X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Restore Our Constitution _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:52:11 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: u. S. Constitution (fwd) Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:11:39 -0700 From: Dennis Justice Subject: u. S. Constitution Most of you are pretty well founded in the constitution. But you probably know some who aren't and would like to be. Pass this on to them. I am going to enroll in this FREE course to brush up on my knowledge. ======================== Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:33:45 -0500 To: jhardin@mindspring.com From: Freedom Page Subject: Freedom Bills and Free E-mail Course : : Friends, I am pleased to announce that we are now offering our free e-mail course on basic Constitutional principles for the third time since last winter. So far, about 1000 people have either taken the course or are currently enrolled. This course was put together by Tony Pritchard, The Republican e-mail list, and provides basic understanding of our Constitution. And, for the first group that recently completed the course, I am printing your certificates now and you should receive them in 7-14 days. NOTE: To subscribe to the free email course see subscription address below. The Republican web pages and email list , Freedom Page web pages and email list , and Republic USA will be once again offering a free email course covering Basic Constitutional Principles. The next class will begin June 1. The email course is free. Lessons will be mailed out once per week. Those who finish the course will receive a certificate of completion from Republic USA. There are no tests to return, the course operates on the honor system, however, there are self test questions at the end of each lesson for those who wish to take them, and for homeschoolers who are taking this course as a part of their Civics requirements. This course deals mainly with the philosophies behind, and the foundation of, our Constitution and our Government. It does not seek to answer every question, nor address every issue, it is designed for those who have a limited level of knowledge regarding these truths, and as a refresher for others. The first class saw 600 subscribers. This next class covers the same material as the first two, so if you have taken the course you will not need do so again, unless of course you wish to. The Origin of Rights & Purpose of Government The Origin of Rights & Purpose of Government Part Two The Second Amendment & the Bill of Rights Republics & Democracies Rights & Their Exercise The Purpose of Government Part Three Jury Rights Constitutional Overview Summary & Conclusion If you wish to subscribe to the next class, send an email to republic@ll.net (that is ll for local link), and put Subscribe in the subject line. Your address will then be added to the next scheduled class. Jim Hardin The Freedom Page http://www.freedompage.ws To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe" as subject to freedompage@mindspring.com To be removed, put "Remove" as subject. Republic USA http://www.republicusa.org From: The Republican Subject: Enumerated Powers Act [Thanks to Ron for this] Enumerated Powers Act (Introduced in the House) HR 175 IH 107th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 175 To require Congress to specify the source of authority under the United States Constitution for the enactment of laws, and for other purposes. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES January 3, 2001 Mr. SHADEGG introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A BILL To require Congress to specify the source of authority under the United States Constitution for the enactment of laws, and for other purposes. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the `Enumerated Powers Act'. SEC. 2. SPECIFICATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY FOR ENACTMENT OF LAW. (a) CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY FOR THIS ACT- This Act is enacted pursuant to the power granted Congress under article I, section 8, clause 18, of the United States Constitution and the power granted to each House of Congress under article I, section 5, clause 2, of the United States Constitution. (b) CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY STATEMENT REQUIRED- Chapter 2 of title 1, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 102 the following new section: `Sec. 102a. Constitutional authority clause `Each Act of Congress shall contain a concise and definite statement of the constitutional authority relied upon for the enactment of each portion of that Act. The failure to comply with this section shall give rise to a point of order in either House of Congress. The availability of this point of order does not affect any other available relief.' (c) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 2 of title 1, United States Code, is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 102 the following new item: `102a. Constitutional authority clause.'. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------- From: The Republican Subject: H. CON. RES. 48 - United States of America as a republic [Thanks to Ron for this] Expressing the sense of the Congress in reaffirming the United States of America as a republic. (Introduced in the House) HCON 48 IH 107th CONGRESS 1st Session H. CON. RES. 48 Expressing the sense of the Congress in reaffirming the United States of America as a republic. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES March 6, 2001 Mr. PAUL submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ CONCURRENT RESOLUTION Expressing the sense of the Congress in reaffirming the United States of America as a republic. Whereas the form of government secured by the Declaration of Independence, the American Revolution, and the Constitution of the United States is a republic--not a democracy; Whereas the Nation's founders understood that pure `democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths' (Federalist No. 10); Whereas throughout the 224-year history of the United States as an independent and sovereign nation, the people of the United States have never exercised power as a democracy; Whereas the people of the United States have always acted by and through the Federal Union of the several States, electing Members of Congress from each of the several States and the President and Vice President by electoral votes proportioned to the number of Members of Congress representing each State; Whereas in the 2000 election for choosing electors for President and Vice President, it appears that the President-elect and Vice President-elect have won a majority of the State electoral vote, but not a plurality of the nationwide popular vote; Whereas the prospect of electing to office a President and Vice President who did not win the largest number of popular votes has generated proposals calling for a constitutional amendment to provide for the direct popular election of the President and Vice President; Whereas such a national popular election for President and Vice President disregards the constitutional integrity and inviolability of the 50 States as independent and sovereign governments; Whereas in their foresight and wisdom, the people of the United States, meeting by representation in State conventions, adopted a national Constitution preserving the independence and equal standing of the 50 States; Whereas the Federal system of equal and independent States is an essential safeguard against shifting wills of the majority overriding the unchanging rights of the minority; Whereas to preserve the rights of the minority from a tyranny of the majority, the Constitution of the United States struck a principled balance between the people of the most populous States and the people of the least populous States; Whereas to that end, the Constitution of the United States provides that the legislatures of each of the several States, without interference from Congress or any other branch of the Federal Government or State governments, determine the manner of election of the President and the Vice President by State electors from each State; Whereas the number of electors is distributed in accordance with each State's representation in the House of Representatives and in accordance with each State's equal standing in the Senate, not by a direct nationwide election in accordance with population alone; Whereas the constitutionally prescribed system in the 2000 election for choosing electors for President and Vice President continues to function as originally designed, protecting minority and States' rights from the exercise of majority power; and Whereas the electoral college system thereby preserves the diversity of the American people and maintains the United States as a Federal republic--not as a democracy: Now, therefore, be it Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That it is the sense of the Congress that the United States is not a democracy--but a republic--and that the present constitutionally prescribed means by which the President and Vice President are selected State by State is essential to preserving the diversity of the citizenry of the United States and to maintaining the United States as a Federal republic composed of independent and sovereign States. [Forwarded For Information Purposes Only - Not Necessarily Endorsed By The Sender - A.K. Pritchard] - ------------------------------ A.K. Pritchard http://www.ideasign.com/chiliast/ http://rosie.acmecity.com/songfest/189/ To subscribe to "The Republican" email list - just ask! therepublican@ideasign.com "... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths." James Madison, known as the father of the U.S. Constitution, in "Essay #10" of The Federalist Papers: ". [I pledge allegiance to the flag..... and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands...!] - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for what the Bible says about Christians and Civil Government? Pastor John Weaver covers this and much more. Audio tapes are only $4.00 each. Just click: http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/johnweaver.html - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:32:00 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: TACTICAL REFLECTIONS (fwd) From: stevechr@ptd.net Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 15:32:57 -0400 Subject: TACTICAL REFLECTIONS Delivered-To: stevechr@ptd.net Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:51:30 -0400 From: poker face office Organization: Political Protest Rock Band for the Masses To: RIV steve Subject: Some great points that need to be used in our struggle Steve please post this to the groups thanks paul SOME TACTICAL REFLECTIONS *** If you're not a little bit uncomfortable with your position, it isn't radical enough. How can you be TOO principled? Take the most extreme position you can -- you're claiming territory you won't have to fight for later, mostly with your "allies". *** Let the other guy offer compromises. Think of them as rungs on a ladder. Keep your own goals fixed firmly in your mind and make sure you never move any direction but upward. That's how the other side got where they are. It works. *** Never aim at anything but total achievement of your goal: utter capitulation of the enemy. Every effort involves inertia and mechanical losses, so adopting any lesser objective means partial defeat. Total victory means you don't have to fight the same fight again tomorrow. *** Second thoughts, failure of confidence, nervous last-minute course-changes are all detours and recipes for defeat. The time to think is before the battle -- if possible, before the war -- not in the heat of it. *** The shortest path to victory is a straight line. He who remains most consistent wins. *** Go straight to the heart of the enemy's greatest strength. Break that and you break him. You can mop up the flanks and stragglers later, and they may even surrender, saving you a lot of effort. *** Always attack in "perpendicular" fashion, from an unconventional and unexpected (but relevant) direction. The enemy will be unprepared; you can strike him with your full strength while he finds nothing to attack effectively. *** Remain the judge of your own actions. Never surrender that position by default. When the enemy screams "Foul!" the loudest, you know you're doing him the most damage. Those who help him scream are also the enemy. *** If you can avoid it, never play on the other guy's field, by the other guy's rules, or with the other guy's ball. He didn't design his system to give you the advantage. Remember that organisms defending their own territory are twice as effective as an intruding attacker. *** You may never convince the other guy, but it's often worthwhile to keep arguing for the effect it has on bystanders, especially his allies. *** Well-timed silence is an effective bargainer. Most people fear silence at a level below conscious analysis and rush to fill the emptiness with accommodation. A difficult tactic to learn and use, but it works. *** The more fundamental position is the highest ground, allowing the most "perpendicular" attack. If he argues politics, argue ethics -- things seldom go beyond this stage. If he argues ethics, argue epistemology (look it up). If he argues epistemology, argue metaphysics. If he argues metaphysics, you're up against Darth Vader and you're in trouble. Switch back to politics and accuse him of being out of touch with everyday reality. Or ask him if he's stopped beating his wife. *** Conservatives are accustomed to being called fascists and well prepared to defend themselves on that ground. Liberals are used to being called socialists. Those labels can be switched, however, and remain valid and instructive. It also catches them completely unprepared. *** Understand from the minute the fight begins that you're going to take damage. Accept it. (You'll always suffer more from the idiots and cowards on your own side than from any enemy.) Keep your overall goal in mind above all. Those who swerve to avoid a few cuts and bruises defeat themselves. *** If you lose, go down fighting. It costs nothing extra, and now and again ... *** Know down to the last cell in your body that the other guy started it. He's the one who put things in an ethical context where considerations like decency and mercy have no referent. The less pity moves you now, the sooner you can go back to being a nice guy. *** Otherhandwise, the easiest, most humiliating path to defeat is thinking that to beat your enemy you must be like him. Avoid the temptation to set your values aside "for the duration". What's the point of fighting if you give up what you're fighting for? If remaining consistent with your values leads to defeat, you chose the wrong values to begin with. *** Truth is a valuable commodity which you don't automatically owe to anyone. Remember, however, that lies are even more expensive -- they're tiring and costly to maintain -- and even a tiny one can utterly destroy you. *** Never soft-pedal the truth. It's seldom self-evident and almost never sells itself. There's less sales resistance to a glib and comforting lie. *** Lies can be custom-tailored; truth comes straight off the rack -- one size fits all. *** Those who lead through authority have rivals on whom they must expend as much energy and attention as they do on their enemies. Those who lead by example have enemies, but no rivals. *** In conflict, if you control their head you win the fight. If you kill the head, the body will surely die... if you confuse the mind the body will be ineffective. *** NEVER tell everything you know! NEVER! Hold back the majority of your knowledge. Always keep a well stocked reserve. *** Never appeal to a man's "better nature". He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 20:58:24 -0500 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: Re: TACTICAL REFLECTIONS (fwd) These are discussed in L. Neil Smith's _Lever_Action_, an EXCELLENT book. I loaned my copy out, so I can't give the exact page numbers. A review of the book is at: Freedom Book of the Month: Lever Action, by L. Neil Smith http://www.free-market.net/features/bookofthemonth/leveraction.html A review of the first non-fiction book by libertarianism's most prolific science fiction author. The 1 underlying principle is strict Bill of Rights enforcement. Everything else flows from that. Get this book! Bob in Mississippi - State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") My PGP Public Key(s): RKBA! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:09:57 -0400 (EDT) From: John Curtis Subject: Echelon attracting denouncement by EU Parliment committee From the BBC world news: Computer users across Europe should encrypt all their e-mails, to avoid being spied on by a UK-US eavesdropping network, say Euro-MPs. The tentacles of the Echelon network stretch so far that the UK's involvement could constitute a breach of human rights, they say. The Euro-MPs have been studying Echelon for almost a year, after allegations that it has been used by the US to commit industrial espionage against European firms. They conclude that Echelon - whose existence is not officially acknowledged - is reading millions of e-mails and faxes sent every day by ordinary people. full story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1357000/1357264.stm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:30:00 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Spanking, Government Agents Kidnap 49 children from one Church (fwd) From: Rich Martin Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:39:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [News2U] Spanking, Government Agents Kidnap 49 children from one= Church=20 Spanking, Government Agents Kidnap 49 children from one Church=20 Dear Alan Judd, ajudd@ajc.com, Staff writer for the Atlanta=20 Journal-Constitution newspaper I read some of the articles that you wrote (See article=92s below) about=20 Georgia Social Services taking 49 children away from the parents who are=20 members of "The House of Prayer Church", over the issue of "Spanking." I=20 sent a copy of your some of your articles to my email list. I have never=20 seen an issue make so many people so extremely angry. Here are some of the comments I received from people on my email list: Joe from Montana wrote: "If that happened in our town, the Social Service= s=20 employees would all get a bullet in the head." Sherry from Colorado wrote: "If the Nazi bureaucrats at social services t= ook my children away I would make Tim McVeigh look like a beginner and the=20 Colorado Social Services building would be nothing but rubble." Shalonda from Detroit wrote: "The reason the Social Services people stay=20 away from our neighborhood is that we have killed some of them and they a= re=20 scared to come into our neighborhood and take away our kids. That is why = in=20 our city the social services bureaurats are now primarily going after the= =20 children of white folks, ie, because they do not fight back.=94 Jerry from Georgia wrote: "We are forming an underground unit of the Geor= gia militia right now to deal with these situations. We are not going to allo= w=20 bureaucrats to get away with this. There will be retaliation. The anger i= n=20 my hometown is incredible high. Liberals and Social Service workers, plea= se=20 take note, this shit has got to stop or we will start killing you. Leave = our kids alone. Leave our home-schooled children alone. Leave our Christian=20 schools alone. Leave our churches and our families alone... OR ELSE we ar= e=20 going to start making you pay a terrible price in blood. I am writing thi= s=20 as a warning to all the Social Service =93Nazi wannabe=94 types, when you= are attacking and kidnapping our kids, you have stepped over the line of=20 civility and you are have taken the first shot in starting a very ugly wa= r.=20 When the war starts, if we have to, we will kidnap your kids. If we have = to, we will take hostages. If we have to we will blow up the government=20 buildings that you work in. We will do whatever it takes to make you=20 BACKOFF. We will not let you take our kids and keep them for months in=20 foster care just because you think that we =93spanked=94 our child too ha= rd.=20 That is not =93abuse=94 and it is none of your damn business. Leave us=20 alone and our kids alone or we will starting killing you." BELOW ARE THE WWW ADDRESSES OF THE ARTICLES THAT MADE SO MANY PEOPLE ANGR= Y. http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/saturday/news_b= 3f0e40450e66055009d.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/050901.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/thursday/local_= news_b3c08a17d19952d500a7.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/newsatlanta/abuse0402.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/0426.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/newsatlanta/0403church.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/index.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/052401court.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/wednesday/news_= b3b0d494d6d1f08500f7.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/image1.html http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/today/local_new= s_b341d761843512f10018.html +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= +++++ http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/epaper/editions/saturday/news_b= 3f0e40450e66055009d.html House of Prayer reunion Parents get 35 kids; 13 more on way By ALAN JUDD Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer As soon as the door swung open, 14-year-old Dianna Frazier spotted her=20 mother. The girl sprinted across the room and leapt into Kim Ogletree's=20 arms, wrapping her legs around her mother's waist. When Jimmy Barnett reunited with his 8-year-old son, Cephas, he lifted th= e=20 boy high into the air. Then he hugged him tighter and tighter. Half an hour after David Duncan and his son, Stephen, found each other, t= he=20 7-year-old continued to rest his hand on his father's shoulder. In the chaos of Friday's sudden reunions between members of the House of=20 Prayer church and many of the children seized from their homes by state=20 welfare officials in an abuse investigation, the boy wasn't letting his=20 father go anywhere. When her tears subsided, Ogletree said getting her eight children back fr= om=20 state foster care was almost enough to make up for the trauma of seeing t= hem pulled from their home May 8 in an ugly confrontation with police. Like t= he=20 other parents, Ogletree had not seen her children since they were taken i= nto custody. For some parents, the separation had been as long as two=20 months. "If you hold on and stay firm and continue to believe, you can see what=20 happens," Ogletree said. "It took a miracle, but we got our children=20 home. The Lord brought them home." In a stunning turnaround, state child welfare officials decided Friday to= =20 release 35 of the 49 children they had taken into protective custody amid= =20 reports of widespread, systematic beatings of children at the small=20 northwest Atlanta church. All but one of the remaining 14 children in state custody could be releas= ed=20 as early as Wednesday. That child is expected to return home by June 16,=20 when he is scheduled to complete psychological treatment. The parents were not required to agree to any restrictions on how they=20 discipline their children. Earlier proposed restrictions by Juvenile Cour= t=20 Judge Sanford Jones - such as a ban on spankings at church - had sparked = a=20 two-month impasse between state officials and church members. Church members and their pastor, the Rev. Arthur Allen Jr., had sought=20 unconditional surrender from the state Division of Family and Children Services. The resolution of the conflict between the state and the parents came=20 hours after the Journal-Constitution reported that physical evidence=20 suggested no more than five of the 49 children in protective custody had suffered=20 physical harm. Evidence indicating abuse of two of those children was=20 inconclusive, the newspaper's review found, and only two children=20 suffered the welts or bruises that elevate a spanking to the level of chi= ld=20 abuse under Georgia law. "The judge and DFCS now realize that so many mistakes were made along=20 the way," said state Rep. Tyrone Brooks (D-Atlanta), one of the lawmakers= =20 and civil rights leaders who negotiated the children's release. "It reall= y=20 is an embarrassment to the state of Georgia." Until late Friday afternoon, it had seemed unlikely the children would so= on go home. The judge had set a deadline of 2 p.m. for parents to comply with an orde= r=20 he imposed Wednesday. Under that order, they had to promise to prevent th= eir children from being abused and not to let girls as young as 14 leave the=20 state to get married. A hearing would have been held in late June to=20 determine when, or if, the rest of the children could go home. Allen's response, on behalf of the parents from the six families, was:=20 "No deal." The pastor insisted all the children had to be returned. As Friday's deadline approached, DFCS officials took the 35 children=20 approved by the judge to a picnic near the agency's office on Bankhead=20 Highway, where the judge had instructed the parents to pick them up. DFCS officials showed little sign of relenting on the conditions they had= =20 asked the judge to impose. "[The parents] said they would come, but if all the children are not=20 here, they would not take any," Andy Boisseau, a DFCS spokesman, told=20 reporters at midday. "All of the children are not going to be here - that= 's for=20 certain." To avoid raising false hopes, the children were not told that a reunion w= as=20 a possibility. But at the House of Prayer, about two miles from the DFCS office,=20 Brooks and several colleagues were meeting with Allen and church members, trying=20 to reach a compromise. Brooks talked by telephone several times with Judg= e=20 Jones, the judge, and with Gary Redding, acting commissioner of the state= =20 Department of Human Resources, which oversees DFCS. Just before 1:30, Jones faxed Brooks a statement giving the lawmaker what= =20 the judge had declined to give the parents Wednesday - a specific date th= at=20 the last of the children would be released if they agreed to take the fir= st=20 group Friday. The judge's statement said the remaining children would be returned home = by=20 Wednesday unless evaluations found "emotional, sexual or physical=20 damage that can't be handled by the family." One child's evaluation won't= be finished until June 16, however. That promise sealed the deal. Inside the church, the congregation drafted a letter seeking an apology f= rom Gov. Roy Barnes and DFCS. And the church members rejected the notion of=20 outside monitors watching how they raise their children. "We want the situation returned, as near as possible, to the way it was=20 before they intruded in our lives," the letter said. Then the congregation boarded two church buses to bring their children=20 home. "If they had been reasonable from the beginning, they could have prevente= d=20 all of this," Allen said of state officials. "They were going to go=20 roughshod over us, but we were a little tougher than they thought." +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++= ++++++ http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/reports/church/050901.html Mayor says police will no longer be involved in controversy Mayor Bill Campbell said today Atlanta police will no longer get involved= in the House of Prayer controversy - --=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RK= BA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:58:13 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Spanking, Government Agents Kidnap 49 (fwd) From: deantong@aol.com=20 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:23:13 EDT=20 Subject: Spanking, Government Agents Kidnap 49 children from one Church =20 In a message dated 5/30/2001 richslick@excite.com writes:=20 Dear Alan Judd, ajudd@ajc.com, Staff writer for the Atlanta=20 Journal-Constitution newspaper=20 I read some of the articles that you wrote (See article=E2=80=99s below) about=20 Georgia Social Services taking 49 children away from the parents who are=20 members of "The House of Prayer Church", over the issue of "Spanking." I=20 sent a copy of your some of your articles to my email list. I have never=20 seen an issue make so many people so extremely angry.=20 Here are some of the comments I received from people on my email list:=20 Joe from Montana wrote: "If that happened in our town, the Social Services=20 employees would all get a bullet in the head."=20 {snip} Perhaps the parents and governmental agents need to read the forthcoming book=20 ELUSIVE INNOCENCE: Survival Guide For The Falsely Accused (Huntington House,=20 2001).=20 Dean Tong=20 - --=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RK= BA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:59:31 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Graduation Speech (fwd) Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:23:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Martin Subject: [slickplus] Graduation Speech Graduation Speech (Tim Wildmon ---retold by Alice Gray) They walked in tandem, each of the ninety-three students filing into the already crowded auditorium. With rich maroon gowns flowing and the traditional caps, they looked almost as grown up as they felt. Dads swallowed hard behind broad smiles, and moms freely brushed away tears. This class would not pray during the commencements--not by choice but because of a recent court ruling prohibiting it. The principal and several students were careful to stay within the guidelines allowed by the ruling. They gave inspirational and challenging speeches, but no one mentioned divine guidance and no one asked for blessings on the graduates or their families. The speeches were nice, but they were routine. Until the final speech received a standing ovation. A solitary student walked proudly to the microphone. He stood still and silent for just a moment, and then he delivered his speech---a resounding sneeze. The rest of the students rose immediately to their feet, and in unison they said, "God bless you." The audience exploded into applause. The graduating class found a unique way to invoke God's blessing on their future---with or without the court's approval. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #444 *************************