From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #455 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, July 24 2001 Volume 02 : Number 455 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 07:49:37 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: VIN -- communists (fwd) From: Rich Martin Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 02:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: VIN -- communists FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz I must be paranoid; I still believe in communists Last month, Clark County finally caved in to union pressure and ended its system of merit raises. The bosses of Nevada's teachers unions have long wailed and ululated against any similar proposal to differentiate by awarding pay raises based on "merit" among their own number ... after all, this would allow school principals and other administrators to show "favoritism." It was in this context that I received the galley proofs of the new paperback book, "Communism: A Brief History," by Richard Pipes, Baird Research Professor of History at Harvard University. I thumbed through this slim volume, stumbling on a telling paragraph about a noted world leader who confronted similar proposals in 1931, when he was trying to get the factories running and his nation out of a serious economic depression. "In 1931," Professor Pipes writes of this noted economic and political visionary, "he assailed the principle of 'egalitarianism,' which called for workers to be paid identical wages regardless of competence, as an 'ultra-left' notion. It meant, he went on the explain, that the unqualified worker had no incentive to acquire skills, while the skilled worker moved from job to job until he found ones where his talents were properly rewarded; both hurt productivity. Accordingly, the new wage scale drew great distinctions between the least and most skilled workers." Who was this enemy of worker solidarity, this promoter of dog-eat-dog competition who stood so far to the right of the enlightened leaders of today's Clark County public employee unions? Joseph Stalin. Professor Pipes, who reminds us in his preface that "No clear distinction can be drawn between 'socialism' and 'communism' " ... in other words, that the collectivist politics of Charles Schumer and Dianne Feinstein and Shelley Berkley will lead inevitably to the same results gained by Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot, no matter how winding or flower-strewn the path ... finds that "Just as the Holocaust expressed the quintessential nature of National Socialism, so did the Khmer Rouge rule in Cambodia (1975-78) represent the purest embodiment of Communism: what it turns into when pushed to its logical conclusion. ... "The leaders of the Khmer Rouge received their higher education in Paris," the good professor notes, "where they absorbed Rousseau's vision of 'natural man,' as well as the exhortations of Frantz Fanon and Jean-Paul Sartre to violence in the struggle against colonialism." When Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge threw out the American puppet Lon Nol in 1975 and took over the nation's capital Phnom Penh, "The carnage began," Professor Pipes reports. "Unlike Mao ... Pol Pot did not waste time on 'reeducation' but proceeded directly to extermination, by category, of ... all civilian and military employees of the old regime, former landowners, teachers, merchants, Buddhist monks, and even skilled workers. ... The executions involved entire families, including small children. ..." Collectivism breeds such immorality -- and can't stand close observation by those who reject euphemisms and stubbornly insist on calling things by their proper names -- because it rests on the foundation of armed robbery, no matter how intricately disguised. Fail to pay your school taxes or your redistributionist "income tax," and eventually armed men will set your belongings on the sidewalk and auction off your house. What elected official in America today (possibly excepting Ron Paul of Texas) hesitates to gleefully spend the proceeds of the redistributionist income tax? They have thus embraced both the principles and the methods of the Bolesheviks. Yet neither the elected thieves nor the beneficiaries of such redistributionist (that is to say, communist) schemes face any social disapproval for "stealing our stuff." No, they're merely "receiving their entitlements"; it is WE who are loathed as selfish, anti-social deviants if we endeavor to keep some larger share of what we earn to feed and clothe our own families, shouted down for "hate speech" if we call their theft ring by its proper name. In only 44 months, Pol Pot managed to reduce the population of the country from 7.3 million to 5.8 million, eliminating nearly a fifth of a nation's population. And it was all done in strict adherence to the doctrines they'd been taught by the most respected Leftist intellectuals of the universities of Paris, who to this day are still required reading (in translation, of course, language skills having long since been abandoned as undemocratic, elitist and unnecessary) in the most prestigious American universities. "It may be noted that there were no demonstrations anywhere in the world against these outrages and the United Nations passed no resolutions condemning them," Professor Pipes notes. "The world took them in stride, presumably because they were committed in what was heralded as a noble cause." Finally, the bloodstained geriatrics who run Red China, taking time out from beating to death more imprisoned Christians and Tibetan nuns, sponsored a concert last month in Beijing's "Forbidden City," featuring those world-class yawners the "Three Tenors." The concert was meant to promote Beijing's desire to host the 2008 Olympics, by showing what a civilized place it is. But a protester showed up. American photographer Stephen Shaver, there on behalf of Agence France-Presse, photographed the protester. So Beijing police knocked Shaver down, dragged him along the ground, and hit him in the head and chest. The United States filed a protest. From the French, who educated most of Asia's leading Communist revolutionaries? Silence. Except that three weeks later the International Olympic Committee -- the same folks who honored Hitler's little racial purification experiments by awarding him the 1936 games -- announced the locale of their 2008 Olympic games. Yep. Beijing. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Subscribe to his monthly newsletter by sending $72 to Privacy Alert, 561 Keystone Ave., Suite 684, Reno, NV 89503 -- or dialing 775-348-8591. *** To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 20:51:35 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Some quotes (fwd) Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 18:52:28 -0400 From: kurt Subject: Some quotes Thought these might be of interest. Found on a pro-Second site. === "All truth passes through 3 stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer === "We the People are the rightful master of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln === "Resistance to tyrants is obedience to god." - Thomas Jefferson === "Since It's the UN's 50th birthday, we should take a moment to ponder all the wonderful things that organization has done to make the world a better place. Let's do that right now. Ah, you're done. That didn't take long, did it?" - Chester G. Edwards. === "Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never -- in nothing, great or small, large or petty...never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense." "...we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds,...we shall fight in the hills;we shall never surrender...." - Winston Churchill === In Boston, 44.6% of public school teachers enroll their children in private schools--almost one in two! What do they know that average parents don't about public schools? === "Smoking kills. If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life." - Brooke Shields === "Outside of the killings, Washington (DC) has one of the lowest crime rates in the country." - Mayor Marion Barry, Washington DC === "The crime bill passed by the Senate would reinstate the Federal death penalty for certain violent crimes: assassinating the President; hijacking an airliner; and murdering a government poultry inspector." - Knight Ridder News Service dispatch === Annoy a Fascist: Just Say No to Gun Control! - Annoy a Liberal: Think! === "Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that [Hillary Clinton]...is a congenital liar." - William Safire === "No power over the freedom of religion [is] delegated to the United States by the Constitution." - Thomas Jefferson === "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with passions unbridled by morality and religion." - John Adams === "Mrs. President." Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun, whose mistake in introducing Hillary Rodham Clinton at the annual National Prayer Breakfast brought gasps from the crowd. - As reported in "Newsweek's" February 12th issue. === "His [Clinton's] approval ratings are about 50 percent now. If they get up to 60 percent, his people tell me Bill can start dating again," - South Carolina Democratic Sen. Fritz Hollings === Just one week after Clinton said the economy was the strongest it had been in 30 years, the Federal Reserve reduced the prime lending rate from 8.5 - percent to 8.25 percent to avert a recession. === Number of times Whitewater witnesses said "don't remember" - and "don't recall": 797. === "A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living." - John Fitzgerald Kennedy === "Ask not what your country can do for you: Ask what you can do for your country." John Fitzgerald Kennedy (Lest we forget JFK was a Democrat, my how - things change!) === "Justice Department studies show that armed citizens are much less likely to suffer losses or personal injury from thieves" - Washington Post 1/7/92 === Statement made by Oliver North when asked to comment on Clinton's draft record. "I would rather vote for Jane Fonda than Gov. Clinton! At - least she has been to North Vietnam." === "The 2nd amendment was never intended to allow private citizens to 'keep and bear arms'. If it had, there would have been wording such as 'the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'" - Ken Konecki on Usenet, on 27 Jul 1992 === "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (1729-1797) === "I didn't see any NRA officials killing babies in Waco..."--P.J. - O'Rourke === "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Ghandi === - Gun control isn't about guns -- it's about control. === - NRA life member John F.Kennedy was shot by ACLU member Lee Harvey Oswald === "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 (C. J. Boyd, Ed., 1950). === "A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have." - Barry Goldwater. === "...African-Americans watch the same news at night that ordinary Americans do." President William Jefferson Clinton on Black Entertainment Television, - November 2, 1994 === "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson === "Let he who is with out a sword, let him sell his coat and buy one." - Jesus Christ Luke 22:36 === "Since Florida has enacted their concealed carry law, the Florida murder rate has dropped by 29%. Nationwide, the murder rate rose 11% over the same period..." - 1994 FBI crime data from ABC news 3/12/95 === "Please do not feed the squirrels. If you feed the squirrels, they'll become overweight, and prone to disease. Their population will grow, and they'll lose their ability to forage for food on their own. They will expect you to feed them and will attack you if you don't. They'll become like little welfare recipients, and you wouldn't want to do this to them." - Sign reported by Clifford F. in Rocky Mountain National Park === "Corrupt politicians make the other ten percent look bad" - Henry Kissinger === "The President's essential character flaw isn't dishonesty so much as a-honesty. It isn't that Clinton means to say things that are not true, or that he cannot make true, but that everything is true for him when he says it, because he says it. Clinton means what he says when he says it, but tomorrow he will mean what he says when he says the opposite. He is the existential President, living with absolute sincerity in the passing moment." Michael Kelly, "The President's Past," New York Times Magazine, - July 31, 1994 === "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." --John - F. Kennedy === "To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." - George Washington === "When the government fears the People, that is Liberty. When the People fear the Government, that is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson "The greatest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected - in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the === "Things don't turn up in this world until somebody turns them up." - James A. Garfield === "It is both possible and moral, to love one's country and hate its government." - Dr. Walter E. Williams === "Those who survived the San Francisco earthquake said, 'Thank God I'm still alive.' But, of course, those who died, their lives will never be the same again." - U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer === "This is the worst disaster in California since I was elected." - California Governor Pat Brown on a local flood === "To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society" - Theodore Roosevelt === "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson === "There are three side effects of acid. Enchanced long term memory, decreased short term memory, and I forget the third." - Timothy Leary === Former Pennsylvania Gov. Robert Casey (D) put it best: "President Clinton says he wants abortion to be safe, legal and rare, but he's helped make - it safe, legal and everywhere." === "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." - George Bernard Shaw === "Ninety-eight percent of the adults in this country are decent, hardworking, honest Americans. It's the other lousy two percent that get all the publicity. But then, we elected them!" - Lily Tomlin === "[Bill Clinton] has kept the promises he meant to keep." [On the claim that "lying" should be grounds to nullify an election:] "If that's the standard, President Clinton could get the death penalty at this point." - Jay Leno === They say, ever since he met JFK as a kid, Bill Clinton wanted to be President in the worst possible way... And he's succeeded beyond his wildest - dreams. === And you didn't think Al Gore was funny? We all know about Whitewater and the alleged shredding of documents. On Sunday (3/6/94) Al responded to an interviewer's question about evidence: "Bill and Hillary have provided - the special prosecutor with every shred of evidence they have." === From The Simpsons, April, 1993 "Didn't you think there was something wrong when you were getting checks for doing nothing?" "I thought - it was because the Democrats were back in power." === "I'm not concerned about Hillary Clinton talking to the dead, I'm concerned that Bill Clinton might say he believes in reincarnation, and we're going to be taxed for money we may have earned in a previous life." - SPEECHWRITER DOUG GAMBLE, 7/5/96 === "I'd rather have a gun and not need - it than need a gun and not have it." - Christian Slater (In the movie "True Romance") === A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." - The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the Unites States of - America, 1791 === "Arms in the hands of citizens [may] be used at individual discretion...in private self-defense." John Adams, 1788, A Defense of the Constitutions of the Government - of the USA, 471 === "The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." Samuel Adams, Debates & Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth - of Massachusetts, 86-87. === "Those who trade essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin === "The whole of the Bill of Rights is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." - - Albert Gallatin, the New York Historical Society, October 7th, 1789. === "Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" - Patrick Henry === "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" - Patrick Henry === "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson === "No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson, proposed Virginia Constitution, June 1776, 1 T. Jefferson - Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950) === "On every question of construction [of the Constitution], let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invent against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete - Jefferson, p322. === "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." - Thomas Jefferson === "The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." - - Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646. Richard Henry Lee === "No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state...such area well-regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizen and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen." - Richard Henry Lee === "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." Richard Henry Lee, additional letters from the Federal Farmer, 1788 - at 169 === "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." Richard Henry Lee, 1788, Initiator of the Declaration of Independence, - and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights === "The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." - James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789 === "the ultimate authority...resides in the people alone..." - James Madison, Federalist Paper No. 46 === "Congress shall never disarm any citizen unless such as are or have been in actual rebellion." - James Madison === "Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed--unlike citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust people with arms." - James Madison === "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people... To disarm the people, that is the best and most effective way to enslave them..." - George Mason === "...to disarm the people [is] the best and most effective way to enslave them..." - George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380. === "The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside...horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them..." - Thomas Paine, I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56, 1984 === "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington, presidential farewell address === "There is nothing so likely to produce peace as to be well prepared to meet the enemy." - George Washington === "A free people ought...to be armed..." George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, printed in the Boston - Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790. === "God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it." - Daniel Webster === "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States" - Noah Webster, pamphlet aimed at swaying Pennsylvania toward ratification - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:16:53 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Gun Give Away I just heard a caller to the Ken Hamblin show report that the Phillipean Government has gotten so tired of some Islamic jihad/revolt thing they've got going on, that they've started handing out pistols and WW-II carbines to the Citizenry. Story unverified at the moment. - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:18:02 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Catch the anti-gunners in a big whopping lie - UN style (fwd) From: Swftl@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 03:59:08 EDT Subject: {slick-d} Catch the anti-gunners in a big whopping lie - UN style ALERT: Catch Them In A Whopping Big Lie -- U.N. Style Date: 07/24/2001 2:38:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: webmaster@jpfo.org (JPFO Alerts) Reply-to: webmaster@jpfo.org To: jpfo_alerts@topica.com - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization (Subscribe/UnSubscribe instructions near the end of the message) July 23, 2001 ALERT: Catch Them In A Whopping Big Lie -- U.N. Style Have you got a friend or relative who thinks maybe the Million Misguided Moms had some valid points to make ... or maybe they had their "hearts in the right place"? Here is a quick "gotcha" you can use. It is a quote directly from Mary Leigh Blek, representative of the Millon Mom March organization, when she spoke last week at the United Nations "Conference on the Illicit Trade in Small Arms and Light Weapons in All its Aspects." Ms. Blek said: "The gun lobby has been talking for 40 minutes. During that time, 40 people have died from the use of small arms and light weapons in this country. That figure, not the statement of those representatives, is further proof that this country is at war." Do the math: 1 person per minute x 60 minutes per hour x 24 hours per day x 365 days = 525,600 people per year. Fact is, misuse of firearms in homicide, suicide and accidents, accounted for a total of 35,673 deaths in 1997. Less half of these deaths were homicides. Source: National Safety Council, Injury Facts: 2000 Edition, at 10, 117. (http://www.gunowners.org/fs0101.htm) The MMM representative, Ms. Blek, attempted to mislead the world conference by overstating the count of homicides by *2600* percent. Even counting the accidents and suicides in her favor, Ms. Blek exaggerated by *1400* percent. This error was not a minor goof or a decimal point shift problem. Such an outright misstatement of facts (made in writing, when the undisputed truth is known) must be a deliberate lie. The MMM counts on newsmedia and other uninformed people to accept the quoted statistics without checking -- most people naturally assume that "nobody would lie publicly about something so easy to verify." Use this fact with those folks who have been believing the MMM to be "a group of women just trying to protect their children from harm." We can't speak for all the members, but the leadership is willing to lie grossly to a high-profile world conference to further their anti-self defense agenda. Now you have hard proof ... in their own words. Click on: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/DC2792.doc.htm The Liberty Crew - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 21:40:31 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Albert Coombs v. Sprint and AT&T (fwd) From: "Huck" Subject: Fw: Albert Coombs v. Sprint and AT&T Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 20:17:23 -0400 You might want to check your own phone bill and the "taxes" and "charges" on it to see if you are being fleeced. Huck - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tee" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: Albert Coombs v. Sprint and AT&T Albert Coombs v. Sprint and AT&T PRELUDE TO PHONE CASE http://www.atgpress.com/phonecase/001.html http://www.atgpress.com/phonecase/toc.html This case started in July of 1998 when I, Albert Coombs, researched the "Gore Taxes." They were instituted on all people's phone bills before July of 1998. I was incensed when I started discovering numerous unidentified doubtful charges appearing on my recent phone bills. That is what started me on a crusade to see what I could find out about all these charges that the phone company said were federally mandated. I spent 6 months with Sprint, my local carrier in letter writing to no avail. AT&T got into the picture because I was withholding from payment, all charges that I found unconstitutional, repealed, or flat out not instituted by Congress, namely the Gore taxes. While searching the Gore taxes, one thing led to another. I ran across some startling finds. One of which was the federal excise tax. I found that the regulations declared that in July of 1965 they were repealed. That regulation no longer exists. I then looked to the Statute created by Congress and sure enough it also said the federal excise tax was repealed in 1968. I then looked for the federal Form with the OMB number that did at one time exist. This was to be filed by everyone paying the federal excise tax. It also was eliminated. I proceeded to obtain the statutes at large from 1898 that created the federal excise tax on phones. I found that only the people owning and operating phone lines were required to pay this tax and not the consuming public. In fact in the statutes at large not one mention that the tax could be passed on to the consumer. What all the hoopla has been about since I filed the brief by certain Congress critters is this. They called and introduced many bills calling for a repeal of the excise tax. Why now all of a sudden? Because you people never knew it was repealed in 1965. If Congress did repeal it on say June of 2001 no one would be the wiser and no one could collect the taxes paid back to 1965. Are they protecting you? NO. Are they protecting a billion-dollar industry that gives them slush fund money? YES I then researched North Carolina's state sales tax. Lo and behold there is almost the identical wording as the 1898 federal excise tax. So I went further and found that the North Carolina legislature did not properly enact this statute. They violated the North Carolina Constitution when only "adopting" and not "enacting" the law which the Constitution stated had to be exact in the wording. This lead me to the other charges like the 911 and the hearing-impaired charge called NC Relay. They too were only directory and applied to a member of the corporation called the county body politic. In other words if you did not register to vote and claimed you were not a member of that incorporated town you were not required to pay either of these charges. This is the law now and the words employed in the statute. It is not the old saying that "the law says you have to pay." It is what the law itself says, not the politician or bureaucrat. So after talking to AT&T and Sprint top people on the phone and letter writing I decided I had researched for 1000 hours plus that I had enough solid documentation to file a complaint with the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) of North Carolina against Sprint over all these charges. The date was December 30, 1998. The PUC, through an internal memo to their counsel, stated that if they had jurisdiction over the matter that they would have to add AT&T to the complaint. The very next day the counsel agreed and AT&T was added and the complaint filed by the PUC against the phone companies. So now I had admission that the PUC declared it had total jurisdiction. I contacted the United States General Accounting Office and asked for them to send directly to the PUC the findings that the FCC violated the corporation control act and the Gore taxes were "non-constitutional." They did on my behalf and now the PUC had a hot potato. You see I had asked, among other things, to return all federal excise taxes to the people all the way back to 1965. I talked to two GAO attorneys on the matter. Three months after I filed my complaint I got a call from a GAO attorney. The conversation was very informative. The GAO attorney stated to me that they had no idea a complaint was filed until I called them. He stated that it caused them to look closer on the matter. He stated that one month after I filed my complaint, the FCC disbanded to two private corporations it created in Delaware to collect the Gore taxes. Then they moved them to another corporation to cover what they had done so no one could follow the trail. The attorney said yes to my question when I asked if that corp. was unconstitutional also. After eight months of briefs back and forth between me and the phone companies, through the PUC, a man named Paul Burge came on board as an intervener. Anyone that had the same charges could become involved. Mr. Burge, a paralegal, was the only one besides me, that pursued the matter; even though I had plastered on the e mails and internet that please, anyone wishing to join come on. Well, after a long delay the PUC up and denied Mr. Burge intervener status because of the lame excuse that he had no interest in the outcome of this matter. That's right he was paying the same illegal charges that I was asked to pay and the PUC "declared" he had no interest in this matter? Mr. Burge, having legal background "appealed" the PUC's absurd order and persisted by joining me on all briefs and documentation filed to the North Carolina Supreme Court and ultimately to the Supreme Court of the United States. To this very day; Mr. Burge has never received an answer from his timely and properly filed Appeal at the PUC level; even though he and I were called upon to speak on this lawsuit before the Public Utilities Commission oversight panel of the North Carolina General Assembly subsequent to his alleged denial of intervener status. Then in August of 1999 the PUC called for a full-blown public hearing on the complaint. Well. The law stated that NOW I could file for discovery after the Hearing was set, which I did. Now are you ready for this? The PUC took the discovery, looked at it, and immediately called off the previously scheduled hearing and then also decided to dismiss the complaint saying it had no jurisdiction. All this happened only after they read the questions that Sprint and AT&T would have to respond to under an oath! This is exactly the opposite and in direct contradiction of the PUC's own actions, as they, not Mr. Burge and myself, found jurisdiction to add AT&T to my Complaint in 1998. Our Discovery asked the phone companies to produce the actual statutes at large created by Congress that authorized them to collect all these taxes under the constitution. This question and many similar discovery questions we proffered to the phone companies; undoubted it put the fear of "incrimination" in the phone company legal staff. The PUC already knew the score and could already see the writing on the wall as this case was unfolding; so they used the only avenue to STOP US DEAD IN OUR TRACKS. They immediately reversed their own prior Order for a Public Hearing and proceeded to quickly BURY this entire matter without allowing further evidence to unfold that would surely implicate the phone companies in illegal activities. Mr. Burge and I found out that the PUC was actually our adversary all along. The PUC, when it comes to something this monumental will side with the Big companies, not the people it is too supposedly created to protect from price gouging. The bottom line is that we are paying the operating costs of the phone companies as well as charged for the basic phone service. Sweet little deals they have going. In fact so sweet it reeks of RICO, extortion and FRAUD, not to mention it fits the definition of fascism to a T. As a side note I contacted the Attorney General of NC, Mike Easley, who is now Governor, to intervene on behalf of the people of North Carolina to investigate the illegal charges. The Attorney General previously had been sent the paperwork. The reason being, the law requires that when a case this big come to the PUC they are required by public policy to bring it to the attention of the Attorney General. Well the DAG wrote me and actually called me and stated the case was rather interesting but they did not have the man power to pursue the action. Well how about that, he would not protect the people of North Carolina from Billions of dollars fraudulently extorted from the NC subscribers. Doesn't that beat all. Hum..mm , I guess they need to preserve their manpower so they can go after all those criminal traffic offenders who don't wear seatbelts. Anyway, after totally researching the Laws and procedures of NC, we found that we could file a direct appeal to the North Carolina Supreme Court under the "rate case" statute. This had never been done in the history of North Carolina by consumers. It took three months of talking on the phone, letters and actually going to the Supreme Court to sit down and talking with them, to make them realize we could do what we said the law said we could. Imagine that, a researcher and a paralegal explaining to the Supreme Court personnel what the statutes actually says? Yes people they are that ignorant. And you think you get a fair deal in these courts? Stay tuned, because is about to get better, or worse really. The Supreme Court finally accepted the paperwork with both our names as appellants because Mr. Burge was appealing his denial to intervene. The appeal was filed and we waited for the response from the phone companies. 30 days came and went. Nothing. We filed a nihil dicit judgement of default against the phone companies for never having filed an appearance paper or response. We went to a NC Rep. He made a few calls and wrote a few letters. Well all of a sudden we get a letter saying Mr. Burge was dismissed and the case had been closed. WHAT, I said? When did this happen? The clerk said two weeks ago did you not get the Order? I said no we did not receive anything. Well the next day the Order of the court was mailed to me. The judges stated the case was dismissed ex mero muto without further comment. I mean, come on, even a first year law student knows it's an automatic default when one party fails to respond to a formal action. So we filed for a rehearing, demanding a reason as dictated by the Rules of NC, for the Courts. The response was-- we, "the" court, do not have to follow the law that applies to every other court in NC, case dismissed again, with no reason. Now is something starting to smell really rotten in Denmark? I tried finding the Justices disclosure if they had stock in the phone companies and after 12 different people in seven different agencies, including the agency that votes the justices into office by popular vote, I ran into the brick wall. No one would disclose that info even under FOIA. Oh a side note. The Rep that helped us never got the phone company donation that he previously received while in office for all prior years. See, the big companies know the pocket book speaks louder than law and is more powerful than any other law Congress or the legislature of any State writes. So we filed to the US Supreme Court. The docket number was 00-1605 and was posted on their web page. One Justice found merit in our case and that is why it went to a full certiorari conference. Well in the process we found out another hot item. The FCC is a private treaty created organization under the various acts of the1930's when the international communications act was instituted. They are passed off as a government agency. Boy have we been had. Since the FCC created these illegal Gore taxes the only way to make them legal under the Treaty was for Congress to enact the laws that FCC created and Congress never did. You, my dear people are taxed, NOT by Congress but a mere private agency in contradiction to their own Constitution. This was all put to the US Supreme Court. All the other actions in the country by all these high-priced lawyers never turned up what we found. The end result? The four year law grads aiding the Supreme Court Justices denied cert. Not any of the justices mind you, but only the clerk. I filed a response demanding the name of the justice that said the case had merit and filed a denial of the decision directly to the Chief Justice in January of 2001. To date there has been no response and I don't expect one. Since 1998 the illegal charges I withheld amounted to 669.24. Just think I am small peanuts compared to businesses and large users and multiply the millions of phone users times my bill and you have billions of dollars. Do you know that a person not having any long distance calls is paying 37 percent of his bill in these illegal charges every month? And people complain about a 5 or 10-cent gas hike which amounts to 1.07 percent, when the gas goes from 1.40 to 1.55 a gallon and yet not complain of a 37 percent gouge from the phone companies? I am now including the full brief entered before the NC Supreme Court, the default, and the rehearing, to show you why the phone companies would not dare file a response and why the Court is protecting them. After all the Bar buddies have to stick it to the people as they cover each others backs. Don't they always put the little man on the bottom? Recently the phone company Sprint threatened to shut off my phone so I have to pay the extortion under TDC, and fraud. There has never been a legal determination in our case on the merits. The courts just flatly refused to hear the case and never stated the complaint was frivolous or in any other way, unwarranted. The PUC only stated that it had no jurisdiction while it's own prior "joinder Order" indicated that it DID have such jurisdiction. Oh....what a tangled web They weave? - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #455 *************************