From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #466 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Tuesday, September 18 2001 Volume 02 : Number 466 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:07:49 -0500 From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #465 At 11:08 AM 9/16/2001 -0600, roc-digest wrote: >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:46:06 -0700 >From: "Lew Glendenning" >Subject: RE: Go get them! (fwd) > >BS. > >This approach would make all of us feel real good (well, except for >lingering regret for all the women and children and other civilians who will >be killed in our 'surgical' strikes). The civilians you are worried about are already evacuating Kabul. >However, it won't do anything for the terrorism problem, and will likely >make it worse. >These terrorists have raised the art to an entirely new level: they are >going after economic infrastructure, not just political targets. They >started using technological and economic thinking, not acting like >poly-sci/sociology/psych majors building simple bombs to make simple >political statements. > >The western world is balanced on a tall needle of technology and >techno-infrastructure. Any idiot can kick it over with minimal effort: any >engineer can give you a dozen ways that 20 guys can cost us 20% of the >economy's output for at least 3 months each. > >Some guy out of the Monterey Naval Graduate School wrote papers on this, >said he could put the US into a long-term recession for $20M (memory here), >20 people and make $1B while he was doing it. > >Osama Bin Laden should have made a lot of money trading stocks yesterday, >having had advance knowledge of what stocks were going to have problems. Reports indicate that he apparently did just that. Call it a form of collateral damage of his chosen form of strike. >We can avoid a war on/with terrorism. Go back to the Constitution: >abrogate all of our mutual defense treaties, withdraw from the UN, bring all >the troops home, defend our borders, announce free and open trade, lower >taxes to the best in the world. We will continue to be the world leader as >we are now, but without any of the burdens of Empire. Sorry but the war is already begun, and we did not begin it. Otherwise I like your ideas. >Nobody has ever won one, not where the terrorists have reasonable community >support. Nobody has ever tried to win one like this one, because there has not been one like this. It's not some group with "community support", its a network of groups in many countries. While they may have support of the local thugs in government, not a one of them exists in anything like a free country. The exception to that being the really small groups in Europe, Ireland and Japan, which can hardly be said to have community support in those countries either. >We are in much more danger from our own out-of-control gov than we are from >foreign Terrorists. Indeed, our foreign terrorism problem is entirely due >to the prior actions of our out-of-control government. More 'solutions' by >our gov is certainly not the answer. But we can't set the clock back, what's done is done, and we go forward from where we are. Your suggestions certainly have much merit, and most should indeed be adopted. However they will not solve the current problem. We replaced the old Articles of Confederation mainly because the national government it created was not strong enough or independent enough to perform the tasks that need to be performed at a national level. The very first of those is to provide for the common defense. We must not throw out that baby with the bathwater, but rather insist upon a return to a federal government that acts only within its charter, which is the Constitution. There is a theory that the Barbary pirates helped lead to the replacement of the Articles by the Constitution, by demonstrating this weakness. Given the proper tools, including the USS Constitution, which was ordered once the Constitution was passed. see: http://www.geocities.com/freewalt5/barb_paphtml.html and http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm Given the proper tools by the Federalist government of President Adams, and the proper powers by the Constitution, President Jefferson knew what to do concerning the Barbary Pirates, starting in 1801, And he did it, sending in that very same USS Constitution was in to handle those pirates. Pirates is not quite the correct term for what are often called the Barbary Corsairs, since they, like bin Laden, had the support of and where somewhat integrated with such govenment that existed in the region, Tripoli for example. http://www.stephendecatur.net/ The whole situtation with the states and quasi state entities along the northern coast of Africa back at the turn of the 19 th Century is not a bad analog of the one we find ourselves in today. This is the way that one ended and it did indeed take a long time, starting under Jefferson, ending under Madison (with the distraction of the war of 1812 in between) ("He" is Stephen Decatur): from http://www.stephendecatur.net/ He arrived off Algiers on 28 June, 1815, where peace was concluded on terms very favorable to the United States. It was stipulated that the United States should never pay tribute to the dey of Algiers, and all Christian captives were to be released. This treaty and the demands of Decatur gave the deathblow to that cruel system which for centuries, to the shame of Christendom, had elevated the Barbary powers into baneful importance. Decatur next went to Tunis and demanded indemnity from the bey for violating treaty stipulations, which demand was conceded. He then made a similar demand on the pacha of Tripoli, and for the release of Neapolitan and Danish prisoners, all of which was granted, thus ending forever the pretensions of the Barbary powers. Even Jefferson knew how to handle threats from stateless pirates. He sent in the Navy to take out the Barbary pirates. >Lew Glendenning The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. --Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! Molon Labe! - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:10:17 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: roc-digest V2 #465 Good analogy. And indeed, all of our arguments about anything use analogy of one form or other. Nevertheless, no analogy is exact. The Barbary pirates indeed threatened international trade. They were primitive, negative-sum government, a protection racket. They did not threaten the US proper, tho they were a threat to citizens while traveling. It was proper to eliminate the threat to both commerce and citizens of all nations. In that case, nothing but military force would have worked. In that case, the win was large relative to the potential loss. The facts of the current situation are that we cannot prevent terrorist attacks that can cut the economic output of the US in half for a period of 6 months. 20 guys, 2 successive mornings, make a billion $ while you do it. And their scenarios didn't include suicide bombers. Remember Chernobyl? Ready to lose a few states, millions of casulties? Sure. We can prevent any particular calamity, although at increasing cost as we include more and more of them. However, to defend against terrorism is to bet against human ingenuity. Ingenuity driven by genuine hate, and not un-reasonable hate, given our 'end-justifies-the-means' behavior as an Empire. Balanced against our potential future losses, what are we going to WIN with a WAR on terrorism? I am not arguing against persecuting Bin Laden. Go after him as an international criminal. Law enforcement exercise, not a military exercise. Track down the money, all the collaborators, etc. Prosecute, any way you want, with full respect for everyone's human rights. Meanwhile, declare THEM victorious, the dissolution of our Empire, and bring all the troops home. End the mutual defense treaties, retreat to the Constitution. Defend our shores. Cut taxes, and win economically. That gives us a chance of winning in the only arena that matters, our economic/social/political future. The other paths decrease the probability that we have a Constitution to defend, an economy to worry about, ... To reiterate the context: next time a loved one is sick or dies, realize that it is a direct result of prior gov actions, e.g. WWI. That 'remedy', along with the 'fixes' to our banking system and the 'improvements' to international trade embodied in the Smoot-Hawley tarrifs, caused Hitler, and the next 'remedy' was WWII. These two actions killed the economy for 40 years, and a lot of the scientists and engineers that would have produced the technical/medical/economic progress that would have resulted in cures for most of the diseases that kill us. (You do not doubt we will gain that much in the next 40 years!) Declaring a war, an un-winnable war, is giving up another ?? years of progress in all of these areas. The 20th century has been a cascade of ever-larger government fixes for problems caused by the previous government fixes. It is time to stop the cascade. It is time to go back to the Constitution. Lew Glendenning - -----Original Message----- From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joe Sylvester Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2001 2:08 PM To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #465 At 11:08 AM 9/16/2001 -0600, roc-digest wrote: >Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 18:46:06 -0700 >From: "Lew Glendenning" >Subject: RE: Go get them! (fwd) > >BS. > >This approach would make all of us feel real good (well, except for >lingering regret for all the women and children and other civilians who will >be killed in our 'surgical' strikes). The civilians you are worried about are already evacuating Kabul. Except for the ones so poor they can't. The widows, maimed orphans that are the result of 20 years of warfare, first the Soviets and then the Taliban. >However, it won't do anything for the terrorism problem, and will likely >make it worse. >These terrorists have raised the art to an entirely new level: they are >going after economic infrastructure, not just political targets. They >started using technological and economic thinking, not acting like >poly-sci/sociology/psych majors building simple bombs to make simple >political statements. > >The western world is balanced on a tall needle of technology and >techno-infrastructure. Any idiot can kick it over with minimal effort: any >engineer can give you a dozen ways that 20 guys can cost us 20% of the >economy's output for at least 3 months each. > >Some guy out of the Monterey Naval Graduate School wrote papers on this, >said he could put the US into a long-term recession for $20M (memory here), >20 people and make $1B while he was doing it. > >Osama Bin Laden should have made a lot of money trading stocks yesterday, >having had advance knowledge of what stocks were going to have problems. Reports indicate that he apparently did just that. Call it a form of collateral damage of his chosen form of strike. >We can avoid a war on/with terrorism. Go back to the Constitution: >abrogate all of our mutual defense treaties, withdraw from the UN, bring all >the troops home, defend our borders, announce free and open trade, lower >taxes to the best in the world. We will continue to be the world leader as >we are now, but without any of the burdens of Empire. Sorry but the war is already begun, and we did not begin it. Otherwise I like your ideas. >Nobody has ever won one, not where the terrorists have reasonable community >support. Nobody has ever tried to win one like this one, because there has not been one like this. It's not some group with "community support", its a network of groups in many countries. While they may have support of the local thugs in government, not a one of them exists in anything like a free country. The exception to that being the really small groups in Europe, Ireland and Japan, which can hardly be said to have community support in those countries either. >We are in much more danger from our own out-of-control gov than we are from >foreign Terrorists. Indeed, our foreign terrorism problem is entirely due >to the prior actions of our out-of-control government. More 'solutions' by >our gov is certainly not the answer. But we can't set the clock back, what's done is done, and we go forward from where we are. Your suggestions certainly have much merit, and most should indeed be adopted. However they will not solve the current problem. We replaced the old Articles of Confederation mainly because the national government it created was not strong enough or independent enough to perform the tasks that need to be performed at a national level. The very first of those is to provide for the common defense. We must not throw out that baby with the bathwater, but rather insist upon a return to a federal government that acts only within its charter, which is the Constitution. There is a theory that the Barbary pirates helped lead to the replacement of the Articles by the Constitution, by demonstrating this weakness. Given the proper tools, including the USS Constitution, which was ordered once the Constitution was passed. see: http://www.geocities.com/freewalt5/barb_paphtml.html and http://www.history.navy.mil/biblio/biblio4/biblio4a.htm Given the proper tools by the Federalist government of President Adams, and the proper powers by the Constitution, President Jefferson knew what to do concerning the Barbary Pirates, starting in 1801, And he did it, sending in that very same USS Constitution was in to handle those pirates. Pirates is not quite the correct term for what are often called the Barbary Corsairs, since they, like bin Laden, had the support of and where somewhat integrated with such govenment that existed in the region, Tripoli for example. http://www.stephendecatur.net/ The whole situtation with the states and quasi state entities along the northern coast of Africa back at the turn of the 19 th Century is not a bad analog of the one we find ourselves in today. This is the way that one ended and it did indeed take a long time, starting under Jefferson, ending under Madison (with the distraction of the war of 1812 in between) ("He" is Stephen Decatur): from http://www.stephendecatur.net/ He arrived off Algiers on 28 June, 1815, where peace was concluded on terms very favorable to the United States. It was stipulated that the United States should never pay tribute to the dey of Algiers, and all Christian captives were to be released. This treaty and the demands of Decatur gave the deathblow to that cruel system which for centuries, to the shame of Christendom, had elevated the Barbary powers into baneful importance. Decatur next went to Tunis and demanded indemnity from the bey for violating treaty stipulations, which demand was conceded. He then made a similar demand on the pacha of Tripoli, and for the release of Neapolitan and Danish prisoners, all of which was granted, thus ending forever the pretensions of the Barbary powers. Even Jefferson knew how to handle threats from stateless pirates. He sent in the Navy to take out the Barbary pirates. >Lew Glendenning The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. --Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! Molon Labe! - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 15:20:20 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: Sobran's recent column, etc. http://www.sobran.com/columns/ He says it better than I do. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 18:55:54 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Arming cockpit crews (fwd) From: George Russum Organization: Second Amendment Coalition of FLA (SACFLA) Subject: [Fwd: Arming cockpit crews] Ok, guys lets see if we can help this pilot!> Greg Webster wrote: > > George, > > Greg Webster here...I took an NRA Instructor course from you a little > over a year ago. I don't know if you remember but I'm a pilot with > American Airlines. The reason I'm writing to you is, I need your help. > After the attacks on New York and Washington, I've been very active in > trying to force my union to pressure the FAA to authorize our cockpit > crews to carry weapons. Momentum is building, some of the folks in the > FAA are starting to listen, even some support on Capitol Hill, but my > request of you is can you utilize all of your people to increase the > flow of mail and phone calls to our Congressional Reps and Senators to > turn the heat up? There is a window of opportunity here, even Peter > Jennings liberal ass seemed to support the idea of arming pilots. The > following is an excerpt of what I've been sending out feel to use any > part of statement or modify it as you see fit: > > > > ABC News ran a story last night about the inadequacies of cockpit > security among U.S. Airlines. Several inadequacies were discussed, > among them were cockpit access, how little protection the cockpit door > actually provides and the fact that U.S. Airline Pilots are unarmed. I > was quite suprised to see this topic dealt with in the media. ABC > stated that the Pilots of El Al and "other" foreign carriers require > that their Pilots are equipped with sidearms, mentioning that these > carriers operate on a war footing. After what may turn out to be the > single most bloodiest day in American history, perhaps we need to > operate on a war footing as well. I am licensed by the State of > Florida to carry a concealed firearm, this is for my own personal > protection. Why don't you insure I have this ability to protect not > only myself but to prevent my aircraft from falling into enemy hands > potentially protecting thousands of American lives. We, the Pilots of > American Airlines should have the ability to arm ourselves, this > statement may have seemed a bit over the edge on Monday Sept. 10, 2001 > but today I believe many American families wish our crews had been > armed, thousands of lives would have been spared. It's your > responsibility to make this lifesaving safeguard a reality. > > > > Thanks for whatever you support you are able to muster for this cause. > > Greg Webster - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 23:51:41 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: Holy War: Mr. President, are You on Our Side? (fwd) Maybe if a whole lot of folks sent him this one, and to our Congress Critters, too..... From: Steve Moser Subject: Holy War: Mr. President, are You on Our Side? Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 00:53:38 -0500 Subject: Holy War: Mr. President, are You on Our Side? Dear Mr. Bush and fellow Americans: People all over the country are being asked to offer words of support to our president, and shows of unity. I offer this, in support of all Americans. This is our wake-up call. The vast bulk of our government has been far too busy terrorizing our own sovereign people to pay attention to what it is supposed to be doing, which is ensuring our national security. It has instead created national insecurity, both within and from without. Now we are being asked for our support, while fools and media talk of a police state (as if that would offer us any "safety" from terrorists). Certainly I don't think anyone in this country fails to see that cohesiveness is needed. So, here is my suggestion to our government: BACK OFF AND START DOING YOUR REAL JOB. Now, please. We American sovereigns will do our part; I have observed that there have not even been any reports of looting yet, instead many heroic efforts by so many people. Perhaps this was a harsh dose of reality. So, do you want the support of families? Then stop (STOP NOW) paying DSS to steal them from parents without cause. Give back the children of America to their own families. Now. Stop forcing the drugging of schoolchildren. Right now. Want the support of farmers? Stop destroying them, leave them alone to get back to the vital job of feeding our people. Stop harassing them over made-up "environmental" issues which all intelligent people> recognize as false excuses for more controls. Give them back their> water and grazing rights. Now. Want the support of free people? Stop incarcerating and criminalizing people for non-crimes. Those who commit real crimes are so often released (when they should not be) to reoffend against innocent people, yet ironically the jails are filled with people against whom no citizen has even offered a complaint. Start turning over the incriminating documents, and prosecuting acts of treason committed by officials. Now. Want patriotism? Stop persecuting patriots. Now. Tell the whiners and frightened rabbits who are thinking that a police state can "protect" them to shut up and get with the program. Apologize (sincerely - we can tell the difference) for Waco, Ruby Ridge, and all of the recent similar events which should shock people more than any outside terrorist attack. Now, please; it is long overdue. While you are at it, prosecute all who were in any way responsible for those terrorist attacks, too. Want a secure nation and support for the military? Tell the mindless gun control freaks that their party is over. Give us all of our guaranteed rights back, now. Get our military (and our homeland) back out from under foreign U.N. control. Right now. Want the financial support of Americans? Stop the wholesale government agency confiscation of land and property. Give it back. Now. While you are at it, give back our public lands which the federal government cannot even lawfully "own". We would be impressed. A people who truly have no private property have nothing left which they want to give you. Want to see enthusiasm and cohesive support? Want us to demand justice for the crime of terrorism that was committed? Then give us back our due process, lawful courts, and constitutional rights. Reinstate justice in our own courts, right here in America. Why should we be outraged at what happened, when many of us have had things just as life-shattering happen to us already at the hands of such entities as the family courts? In short, sir, give us back the kind of government our country is supposed to have, and we will give you support the likes of which you have never dreamed. We Americans love our country and our countrymen, no matter how persistent the divisive elements have been in trying to change these facts. We have all been issued a challenge. Our question is, are you on our side? Lorri Ellen Carr, sui juris all rights reserved, without prejudice > state of Washington JAILer > jail4judges@mindspring.com - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 09:33:41 -0700 From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: Chechnya is the precedent http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?a0615_BC_Ru ssia-Chechnya&&news&newsflash-international The Russians have done all they can to sterilize this country. Small country, not much outside help, ... The result is they lose about 20 people a week. They 'won' the war some time ago. Any idea that we are going to 'win' by putting ground troops somewhere is insane. Meanwhile, the assault on civil liberties/human rights here at home continues. That is the danger, not Moslem terrorists. Chuckie Schumer's people are responsible for the WTC catastrophe. Restore our Civil Rights and avoid these problems in the future. Lew - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 17:36:28 -0700 From: "Kenneth Mitchell" Subject: Nice montage of WTC photos http://www.ragz-international.com/god_bless_america2.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA ken@creativemindssacramento.com 916-955-9152 (voice) 916-729-0966 (fax) - ----------------http://www.creativemindssacramento.com------------- "Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein hailed the attack on the Pentagon and World Trade Center Tuesday as the Operation of the Century. He has forgotten that the Bush family's favorite game is Iraqi Bingo. The only number they ever call is B-52. " Comedian Argus Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Heroes of United Flight 93 Jeremy Glick told his wife to have a good life, and to take care of their baby. Thomas Burnett, who made replacement heart valves, called his wife to tell her that he loved her. Mark Bingham was a passenger. Todd Beamer used the AirPhone to report the hijacking, and then called "Let's roll!" as these four heroes attacked the hijackers who were on their way to..... an empty field in Pennsylvania. They were the first four heroes of the war. Let their names live in honor! http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916phonecallnat3p3.asp http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001147 - ------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:29:59 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: AIRLINE SECURITY: Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air (fwd) I'm not sure what sort of addresses got snipped, unless maybe, there was = a long list of them, but this is something that can be verified through the braz= ilian news. Anyone speak/read/write Portuguese? From: Charles Nawrocki Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:51:53 -0500 Subject: AIRLINE SECURITY: Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air Passengers To Carry Light Firearms Sent FYI. This is more than interesting. Maybe it should happen=20 here.//////////////// >(Snip addresses) > >What the Brazilian Parliament has done (see below) is the very type of >immediate action that 'We the People' should demand of President Bush, a= nd >what the FAA, DOT and the Department of Justice should have allowed in t= his >Nation a long time ago. But even more appropriately, it should be the >airline pilot crewmembers themselves who should be armed and trained in = the >use of small arms aboard ALL domestic and international flights. Had the >pilots aboard the two American Airlines and United Airlines 757's and 76= 7's >been armed, the outcome of events on September 11, 2001 would be entirel= y >different, and we would not now be witness to draconian intrusions into = our >civil liberties being undertaken in this so-called 'War on Terrorism." P= ass >this information to Attorney General John Ashcroft, Secretary of >Transportation Norman Mineta, FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, and the >American news media organizations and DEMAND that U.S. Government offici= als >take these immediate steps for future security of the airlines and their >passengers. Enforcing the Second Amendment to the Constitution for the >United States of America (1787) will ensure that the rest of the covenan= ts >therein will be obeyed and respected. > > >http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/sep/17/arbz091701.htm > >Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air Passengers To Carry Light Firearms > From Thomas Buyea ranger116@webtv.net > From Tom=E1s Mano de Carvalho Alliance >Nacional do Brasil 09.15.01 >---- > >RIO DE JANEIRO - To avoid that an aircraft is used as bomb against >important buildings, the Brazilian parlament decided today to liberate >light weapons (calibre less than 0.38) for all passengers over 21 years = old. > >As 65% of all Brazilians with income more than US$ 2000 always walks >equipped with gun, the government finds it safe and guaranteed that >sufficient persons will react against any eventual highjackings. > >Extra information will be distributed and presented by the air hostess. >When they show the safety equipment they will also inform the passengers= to >prepare eventual shot with precision, always take aim at chest to avoid >that bullets perforate the shell of the aircraft. > >The president, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, wanted to make his veto agains= t >the proposal, but was rejected by the astounding majority of 234 against= 6 >votes. > >Pass this information to American news-agencies to lighten a new angle i= n >perspective of criminality. - --=20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RK= BA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 11:31:03 -0700 From: Bill Vance Subject: UN E-mail addresses. (fwd) From: Carl William Spitzer Subject: UN E-mail addresses. Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:35:29 PDT Might be useful if some nation decides to balk at assisting us in solving the coward problem in afgahanistan. CWSIV Afghanistan afghanistan@un.int Albania albania@un.int Algeria algeria@un.int Andorra andorra@un.int Angola angola@un.int Antigua and Barbuda antigua@un.int Argentina argentina@un.int Armenia armenia@un.int Australia australia@un.int Austria austria@un.int Azerbaijan azerbaijan@un.int The Bahamas bahamas@un.int Bahrain bahrain@un.int Bangladesh bangladesh@un.int Barbados barbados@un.int Belarus belarus@un.int Belgium belgium@un.int Belize belize@un.int Benin benin@un.int Bhutan bhutan@un.int Bolivia bolivia@un.int Bosnia and Herzegovina bosnia@un.int Botswana botswana@un.int Brazil braun@delbrasonu.org Brunei Darussalam brunei@un.int Bulgaria bulgaria@un.int Burkina Faso burkinafaso@un.int Burundi burundi@un.int Cambodia cambodia@un.int Cameroon cameroon@un.int Canada canada@un.int Cape Verde capeverde@un.int The Central African Republic caf@un.int Chad chad@un.int Chile chile@un.int China china@un.int Colombia colombia@un.int Comoros comoros@un.int Congo congo@un.int Costa Rica costarica@un.int Cote d'Ivoire ivorycoast@un.int Croatia croatia@un.int Cuba cuba@un.int Cyprus cyprus@un.int The Czech Republic czechrepublic@un.int The Democratic Republic of Congo drcongo@un.int Denmark denmark@un.int Djibouti djibouti@nyct.net Dominica dominica@un.int The Dominican Republic dr@un.int Ecuador ecuador@un.int Egypt egypt@un.int El Salvador elsalvador@un.int Equatorial Guinea eqguinea@un.int Eritrea eritrea@un.int Estonia estonia@un.int Ethiopia ethiopia@un.int Fiji fiji@un.int Finland finland@un.int France france@un.int Gabon gabon@un.int Gambia gambia@un.int Georgia georgia@un.int Germany germany@un.int Ghana ghana@un.int Greece greece@un.int Grenada grenada@un.int Guatemala guatemala@un.int Guinea guinea@un.int Guinea-Bissau guinea-bissau@un.int Guyana guyana@un.int Haiti haiti@un.int Honduras honduras@un.int Hungary hungary@un.int Iceland iceland@un.int India india@un.int Indonesia indonesia@un.int Iran iran@un.int Iraq iraq@un.int Ireland ireland@un.int Israel israel@un.int Italy italy@un.int Jamaica jamaica@un.int Japan japan@un.int Jordan jordan@un.int Kazakhstan kazakhstan@un.int Kenya kenya@un.int The Dem. People's Republic of Korea dprk@un.int Republic of Korea korea@un.int Kuwait kuwait@un.int Kyrgyzstan kyrgyzstan@un.int Lao P. Dem. Republic laos@un.int Latvia latvia@un.int Lebanon lebanon@un.int Lesotho lesotho@un.int Liberia liberia@un.int Libya libya@un.int Liechtenstein liechtenstein@un.int Lithuania lithuania@un.int Luxembourg luxembourg@un.int The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia macedonia@un.int Madagascar madagascar@un.int Malawi malawi@un.int Malaysia malaysia@un.int Maldives maldives@un.int Mali mali@un.int Malta malta@un.int Marshall Islands marshallislands@un.int Mauritania mauritania@un.int Mauritius mauritius@un.int Mission of Mexico mexico@un.int The Federated States of Micronesia micronesia@un.int Moldova moldova@un.int Monaco monaco@un.int Mongolia mongolia@un.int Morocco morocco@un.int Mozambique mozambique@un.int Myanmar myanmar@un.int Namibia namibia@un.int Nepal nepal@un.int Netherlands netherlands@un.int New Zealand newzealand@un.int Nicaragua nicaragua@un.int Niger niger@un.int Nigeria nigeria@un.int Norway delun@mfa.no Oman oman@un.int Pakistan pakistan@un.int Palau palau@un.int Panama panama@un.int Papua New Guinea png@un.int Paraguay paraguay@un.int Peru peru@un.int Philippines philippines@un.int Poland poland@un.int Portugal portugal@un.int Qatar qatar@un.int Romania romania@un.int Rwanda rwanda@un.int The Russian Federation rusun@un.int Samoa samoa@un.int Marino sanmarino@un.int Sao Tome and Principe stp@un.int Saudi Arabia saudiarabia@un.int Senegal senegal@un.int Seychelles seychelles@un.int Sierra Leone sierraleone@un.int Singapore singapore@un.int Slovakia slovakia@un.int Slovenia slovenia@un.int Solomon Islands solomonislands@un.int Somalia somalia@un.int South Africa southafrica@un.int Spain spain@un.int Sri Lanka srilanka@un.int St. Kitts and Nevis stkn@un.int St. Lucia stlucia@un.int St. Vincent & the Grenadines stvg@un.int Sudan sudan@un.int Suriname suriname@un.int Swaziland swaziland@un.int Sweden sweden@un.int Syrian Arab Republic syria@un.int Tajikistan tajikistan@un.int Thailand thailand@un.int Togo togo@un.int Trinidad and Tobago tto@un.int Tunisia tunisia@un.int Turkey turkey@un.int Turkmenistan turkmenistan@un.int Uganda uganda@un.int Ukraine ukraine@un.int United Arab Emirates uae@un.int United Republic of Tanzania tanzania@un.int The United Kingdom uk@un.int The United States of America usa@un.int Uruguay uruguay@un.int Uzbekistan uzbekistan@un.int Vanuatu vanuatu@un.int Venezuela venezuela@un.int Viet Nam vietnam@un.int Yemen yemen@un.int Yugoslavia yugoslavia@un.int Zambia zambia@un.int Zimbabwe zimbabwe@un.int Observer of the Asian-African Legal Consultative Commitee aalcc@un.int Observer of the Caribbean Community caribcomun@un.int Observer of the International Committee of the Red Cross RedCrossCommittee@un.int Observer of the European Community ec@un.int Observer of the Francophonie francophonie@un.int Observer of the Holy See holysee@un.int Observer of the International Federation of the Red Cross redcross@un.int Observer of the International Labour Organization ilo@un.int Observer of the International Seabed Authority isa@un.int Observer of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea seaun@un.int Observer of the League of Arab States las@un.int Observer of the Organization of African Unity oau@un.int Observer of the Organization of Islamic Conference oic@un.int Observer of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta sm-malta@un.int Observer of Switzerland switzerland@un.int Observer of the Palestinian National Authority palun@undp.org From: "Chester L McWhorter Sr" - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 12:48:03 -0700 From: "Kenneth Mitchell" Subject: RE: AIRLINE SECURITY: Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air (fwd) Nice if true, but there doesn't appear to be any mention of this on any Brazilian web site. Granted, I don't speak Portugese, but AltaVista's "Babel Fish" translations aren't THAT bad.... I suspect this may be a pleasant fantasy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA ken@creativemindssacramento.com 916-955-9152 (voice) 916-729-0966 (fax) - ----------------http://www.creativemindssacramento.com------------- "Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein hailed the attack on the Pentagon and World Trade Center Tuesday as the Operation of the Century. He has forgotten that the Bush family's favorite game is Iraqi Bingo. The only number they ever call is B-52. " Comedian Argus Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------- The Heroes of United Flight 93 Jeremy Glick told his wife to have a good life, and to take care of their baby. Thomas Burnett, who made replacement heart valves, called his wife to tell her that he loved her. Mark Bingham was a passenger. Todd Beamer used the AirPhone to report the hijacking, and then called "Let's roll!" as these four heroes attacked the hijackers who were on their way to..... an empty field in Pennsylvania. They were the first four heroes of the war. Let their names live in honor! http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010916phonecallnat3p3.asp http://opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=95001147 - ------------------------------------------------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 11:30 AM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: AIRLINE SECURITY: Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air (fwd) > > > I'm not sure what sort of addresses got snipped, unless maybe, > there was a long > list of them, but this is something that can be verified through > the brazilian > news. Anyone speak/read/write Portuguese? > > From: Charles Nawrocki > Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:51:53 -0500 > Subject: AIRLINE SECURITY: Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air > Passengers To Carry Light Firearms > > Sent FYI. This is more than interesting. Maybe it should happen > here.//////////////// > > >(Snip addresses) > > > >What the Brazilian Parliament has done (see below) is the very type of > >immediate action that 'We the People' should demand of President > Bush, and > >what the FAA, DOT and the Department of Justice should have > allowed in this > >Nation a long time ago. But even more appropriately, it should be the > >airline pilot crewmembers themselves who should be armed and > trained in the > >use of small arms aboard ALL domestic and international flights. Had the > >pilots aboard the two American Airlines and United Airlines > 757's and 767's > >been armed, the outcome of events on September 11, 2001 would be entirely > >different, and we would not now be witness to draconian > intrusions into our > >civil liberties being undertaken in this so-called 'War on > Terrorism." Pass > >this information to Attorney General John Ashcroft, Secretary of > >Transportation Norman Mineta, FAA Administrator Jane Garvey, and the > >American news media organizations and DEMAND that U.S. > Government officials > >take these immediate steps for future security of the airlines and their > >passengers. Enforcing the Second Amendment to the Constitution for the > >United States of America (1787) will ensure that the rest of the > covenants > >therein will be obeyed and respected. > > > > > >http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/sep/17/arbz091701.htm > > > >Brazil Parliament Votes To Allow Air Passengers To Carry Light Firearms > > From Thomas Buyea ranger116@webtv.net > > From Tomás Mano de Carvalho Alliance > >Nacional do Brasil 09.15.01 > >---- > > > >RIO DE JANEIRO - To avoid that an aircraft is used as bomb against > >important buildings, the Brazilian parlament decided today to liberate > >light weapons (calibre less than 0.38) for all passengers over > 21 years old. > > > >As 65% of all Brazilians with income more than US$ 2000 always walks > >equipped with gun, the government finds it safe and guaranteed that > >sufficient persons will react against any eventual highjackings. > > > >Extra information will be distributed and presented by the air hostess. > >When they show the safety equipment they will also inform the > passengers to > >prepare eventual shot with precision, always take aim at chest to avoid > >that bullets perforate the shell of the aircraft. > > > >The president, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, wanted to make his veto against > >the proposal, but was rejected by the astounding majority of 234 > against 6 > >votes. > > > >Pass this information to American news-agencies to lighten a new angle in > >perspective of criminality. > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > - > > - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #466 *************************