From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #475 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Saturday, November 24 2001 Volume 02 : Number 475 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: ROY MOORE ALERT (fwd) - --------------------- begin forwarded message from Center for Reclaiming America --------------------- From: "Center for Reclaiming America" Subject: ROY MOORE ALERT Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 21:23:17 -0600 + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + THIS IS THE CUSTOM "E-MAIL LINK" FOR Mr. Bill Vance. Forward this message to your friends and ask them to stand for Roy Moore and the Ten Commandments by signing this petition. Replace this text with your own introduction and forward to at least 10 or 20 people! + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + 11/13/01 Dear friend of faith and values, Mr. Bill Vance has just signed this petition supporting Chief Justice Roy Moore and the Ten Commandments and is asking you to sign as well. Click here: http://www.grassfire.net/83/petition.asp?PID=1568232 (AOL users click the link below, all others click the link above:) Click here The ACLU recently filed a federal lawsuit to force Roy Moore to remove the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Supreme Court building -- the latest effort to strip the Ten Commandments from public life. I need your help. I'm asking you to sign our petition supporting the Ten Commandments and add your own personal NOTE OF SUPPORT to Chief Justice Moore to encourage him to stand up to the ACLU's latest attacks. Then, I need you to spread the grassfire on the Internet that will show our national leaders that hundreds of thousands of Americans are standing to defend the Ten Commandments. Please help. Janet Folger National Director CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA P.S. The ACLU's lawsuit is on a fast track. We need 50,000 friends to stand with Chief Justice Moore and the Ten Commandments in the next 21 days. Please let me know if you can help. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + SIGN THE "PETITION OF SUPPORT" TO UPHOLD THE PUBLIC DISPLAY OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS: http://www.grassfire.net/83/petition.asp?PID=1568232 (AOL users click the link below, all others click the link above:) Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + SEND YOUR OWN PERSONAL NOTE TO CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE: Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA, established by Dr. D. James Kennedy, is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles on which our country was founded. The CENTER provides non-partisan, non- denominational information, training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers. Questions? cfra@crministries.org - --------------------- end forwarded message from Center for Reclaiming America --------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:40:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: Sixty Second Activist ACTION ITEM: Immigration (fwd) - ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Charles Nawrocki ---= - -------------------- From: Charles Nawrocki Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:51:07 -0600 Subject: {slick-d} Fwd: Sixty Second Activist ACTION ITEM: Immigration >Delivered-To: cfrocky@comwerx.net >From: WBracken1@aol.com >Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:07:22 EST >Subject: Sixty Second Activist ACTION ITEM: Immigration >To: WBracken1@aol.com >X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 42 > > >Here is today's Sixty Second Activist ACTION ITEM: > >ISSUE: The Council for Government Reform, a grassroots >advocacy organization seeking responsible and limited >government (www.govreform.org), has alerted us to a bill >that would bring much-needed reform to the Immigration >and Naturalization Service (INS). > >It shouldn't surprise anyone to find out that Subash >Bahadur Gurung, the armed man who tried to board a >United flight at O'Hare Airport last weekend, was an >illegal alien. It turns out that Gurung held an expired >student visa and phony work authorization papers from >the INS. > >While most news stories on Gurung have focused on the >fact that he had no apparent ties to the September 11th >terrorists, they have almost unanimously ignored the >fact that he was a criminal. He was a visa overstayer, >in this country illegally since December of 1999. The >INS had no idea where he was or even that he was in our >country. That is the case with millions of illegal >aliens living here. They are all criminals -- violating >U.S. immigration laws by living among us. > >Earlier this week, the Office of Inspector General at >the Justice Department issued a report finding no >evidence that the INS had the ability to locate those >who remain illegally in this country. The INS even >admits that it has deportation orders against 250,000 >illegal aliens that it simply cannot enforce because >it can't find them. > >What's the answer, you ask? Reform the INS. > >Today, the INS fails both immigrants and the American >people. It doesn't carry out either its law enforcement or >service missions very well. In fact, the 1994-1997 U.S. >Commission on Immigration Reform concluded in its final >report that the INS suffered from "mission overload" -- it >has the responsibility for more priorities than one agency >can handle. > >ACTION ITEM: House Judiciary Chairman, Rep. James >Sensenbrenner, has introduced legislation to alleviate the >mission overload of the INS. H.R. 3231 would split the two >missions of the INS into separate bureaus -- one to handle >the law enforcement actions of the INS and Border Patrol >and one to handle the customer service functions necessary >to ease the transition for legal immigrants. > >This distinction is necessary because, due to the breaches >of immigration law that facilitated the tragic events of >September 11th, illegal immigration has become an issue of >national security and safety. > >Click below to contact your Senators and Congressman, and >urge them to support H.R. 3231, The Immigration Reform and >Accountability Act, to create a better immigration agency >with a clear mission and more accountability: > > http://www.conservativehq.com/111301.htm >AOL: CLICK HERE > > >NOTE: Some legislators no longer offer public email addresses, >which means you can't contact them through our Contact Center. >If any of your Senators or Representatives is one of these >legislators, you can still reach them electronically through >their contact page; look up their website at >http://www.senate.gov/senators/senator_by_state.cfm or >http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.htm then click >through to find their contact pages. Add them to your >"favorites" or bookmark them, so you can contact them easily >at any future time. Thank you! > >---------------- > >Dear [legislator's name], > >Please support H.R. 3231, the Immigration Reform and >Accountability Act, sponsored by Rep. James Sensenbrenner. > >Today, the INS fails both immigrants and the American people. >It doesn=E2=80=99t carry out either its law enforcement or service >missions very well. In fact, the 1994-1997 U.S. Commission on >Immigration Reform concluded that the INS suffers from "mission >overload" -- it has responsibility for more priorities than one >agency can handle. > >H.R. 3231 would split the distinct missions of the INS into >two bureaus, one to handle law enforcement and on to handle >customer service. This distinction is necessary because, due >to the breaches in immigration law that led to the tragic events >of September 11th, illegal immigration has become an issue of >national security and safety. > >Quick but thoughtful action is needed to reform America's broken >immigration system. H.R. 3231 is a good first step and >addresses the root of the problem. I urge you to support H.R. >3231. Thank you. > >Sincerely, > >[Your name & address] > >=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3DSPONSOR'S MESSAGE=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D > >SHOW YOUR AMERICAN PRIDE! > >54" x 60" throw blankets, made of a beautiful patriotic >thick fleece material. Styles vary, but all include >LOTS of American flags! These are going fast, and won't >last much longer -- order yours TODAY! (A portion of all >proceeds will be donated to disaster relief efforts.) >CLICK BELOW: > > >http://www.CreativeBlessings.com/blankets-chq.htm > >------------------------------------------------------------ >This message is from SixtySecondActivist.com. >You received it because you signed up for our list. >You are currently subscribed as: WBracken1@aol.com >To unsubscribe send a blank email to >leave-activist-list-2370678B@silver.lyris.net >or go to http://unsub.sixtysecondactivist.com/ > >Recommend SixtySecondActivist.com to your friends, you'll be >entered to win $10,000! Go to: > http://recruit.SixtySecondActivist.com/ > > Was this message forwarded to you by a friend? You can sign >up for the Sixty Second Activist Club for FREE! Click through: > http://join.SixtySecondActivist.com/ >------------------------------------------------------------ > >A Christian Patriot > Hosea 4:6 - ----------------------- end forwarded message from Charles Nawrocki -----= - ------------------ - -- - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= - --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - --- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:18:02 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: Phoenix Anti-AMERICAN Police Dept. attack Constitutionalists (fwd) - ----------------------- begin forwarded message from semperfidave@juno.com ----------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 06:31:53 -0500 Subject: Phoenix Anti-AMERICAN Police Dept. attack Constitutionalists From: semperfidave@juno.com I recommend Sending The Pamplet to Fox News - We will see who is the anti government and anti American terrorist are around here. !!! I hope fox news will run with this story. Because this is going to be Fun Fun Fun!!! If they do!! LOL. These are no doubt the Arizona Universities doing. Eductaors around here are so stupid they probably do not even know what the 4th amendment is. And all of them have pamplets stating they are heros of the UN. And we are all global citizens and the like. I hope Bush passes the law that prevents them from getting their 600,000 foriegn students this year. Because it will sure be nice to see a bunch of high and mighty educators out of a job. And humbled for a change. While he is at it I hope he cuts off the PHD welfare programs. That will put a good 30 % of these know it all ass whips in the little mans welfare system that they so graciously created for everyone but them. Bottom line is that they are hunting down people that they plan to raid later - The Pale Horse "whose rider is death with Hell following close behind." Source: KeepAndBearArms.com http://www.keepandbeararms.com/ Public Servants Going After "Constitutional Terrorists"? http://www.keepandbeararms.com/angel/articles/consterrorist.htm by Angel Shamaya November 14, 2001 - -- The Phoenix Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office (Greater Phoenix, Arizona), and the Maricopa County Attorney are handing out flyers asking the recipients to help them fight domestic terrorism. I received one of these flyers this past weekend at the Arizona "Freedom in the 21st Century" gathering. One member of the Sheriff's Posse Reserve in attendance said he'd seen the flyer before and that it is legitimate. [I will be getting verification before this report goes live on our site, including recording phone calls to these people.] Called the Joint Terrorism Task Force, the program was created, presumably, to help preserve the American way of life, right? In part, probably. However, it also looks like it's a disinformation campaign to paint least a few groups of Real Americans as domestic terrorists. Among other things, the dynamic trio is asking people: "If you encounter any of the following, Call the Joint Terrorism Task Force": "defenders of the US Constitution against federal government and the UN" [That describes many civil liberties groups and most gun rights and American Sovereignty groups in existence -- and, by extension, their members.] "Groups of individuals engaging in para-military training" [Such as, perhaps, shooting your semi-automatic "assault weapon" with some friends out in the desert?"] Also being sought are "Common Law Movement Proponents" who "Request authority for a stop" [That's illegal now?] "Make numerous references to the US Constitution" [That's illegal now?] "Attempt to 'police the police'" [That's illegal now?] And let's not forget the other potential "domestic terrorists" being sought. We really need to watch out for these people: "Lone Individuals" [Do you meet that description?] "Rebels" [Know any gun rights activist who doesn't have at least a touch of rebel pumping through the old bloodstream?] Be sure and notice the following two things on the flyer, as well: 1) There is NOT ONE MENTION of "Islamic Fundamentalists" anywhere. 2) Defenders of the US Constitution and the common law from which it grew are being classified on the same level as the bottom-feeding Skinheads, Nazis and the KKK. READ THE FLYER FOR YOURSELF The flyer is a tri-fold, so you'll have to turn your head sideways to read one of the sections. Front Page http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Front.jpg Back Page http://www.keepandbeararms.com/images/FBI-MCSOTerroristFlyer-Front.jpg NOTE: The far right side of the above "Front Page" is the actual front of the tri-fold flyer. The far left side of the above "Back Page" -- the part that mentions the 'defenders of the US Constitution' -- is the inside flap... the first thing you see when you open the flyer. CONTACT THE PEOPLE PUSHING THIS "PROGRAM" FBI Phoenix Office Website: http://phoenix.fbi.gov/ Email: phoenix@fbi.gov Special Agent in Charge - Guadalupe Gonzalez FBI's "Civil Rights" Website: http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxcivil.htm FBI's "Counterterrorism" Website: http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxterr.htm FBI Arizona Regional Offices: http://phoenix.fbi.gov/contact/fo/phnx/pxterrit.htm The Maricopa Sheriff's Office Website: http://www.mcso.org/ Feedback form for Sheriff Joe "Give 'em green lunch meat" Arpaio: Via Website: http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=public Via Email: complaints@mcso.maricopa.gov, information@mcso.maricopa.gov Maricopa County Attorney Richard M. Romley, who shamelessly promotes himself on this taxpayer-funded site as "America's Unsung Hero": http://www.maricopa.gov/attorney/MCAOhome.asp You can tell him what an American Hero you think he is at: http://www.maricopa.gov/feedback/feedback.asp Save The Republic Patriot Alliance http://www.awrm.org Every Abled Bodied Man Is A Member Of The Militia By Consitutional Law. Join Today! - ----------------------- end forwarded message from semperfidave@juno.com ----------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: 2nd Amendment Alert (fwd) - ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Jack ----------------------- From: "Jack" Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:54:50 -0600 Subject: 2nd Amendment Alert The following was sent to us yesterday by Dr. Ignatius Piazza, the founder and director of the Front Sight Firearms Training Institute (www.frontsight.com), the group which has offered FREE firearms training to any pilot or co-pilot in the country if legislation is passed allowing them to carry weapons in the cockpit... Both the Senate and the House passed airline safety legislation with an armed pilots amendment. Under normal circumstances -- when both houses agree in principle on an issue -- that guarantees that the provision will remain in the final version of the bill. Unfortunately, Arizona Sen. John McCain is on the conference committee which is tasked with ironing out the differences between the two versions, and he is reportedly trying to strip out the armed pilots language. It is imperative that EVERYBODY get in touch with Sen. John McCain. Even if he tells you that he doesn't answer mail from other states, remember one thing: John McCain is a Presidential candidate. He has national aspirations, and that means he wants to represent you no matter where you live. Send this short and simple message: "Dear Sen. McCain, I hope you will not try to thwart the will of the Congress. Both houses have passed sensible air safety provisions that would permit pilots to arm themselves for our common defense against terrorism. That language deserves to go to the President for his signature." You can contact Sen. McCain at: Phone: 202-224-2235 Fax: 202-228-2862 E-mail: john_mccain@mccain.senate.gov Thanks to you, the Impact Voters of America is now the Nation's largest grassroots network! - ----------------------- end forwarded message from Jack ----------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:14:59 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: 'Twas the Night of Thanksgiving! (fwd) - ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Manthony25@aol.com ----------------------- From: Manthony25@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:42:59 EST Subject: 'Twas the Night of Thanksgiving! Hello Friend: I just want to wish you and yours a very peaceful and pleasant Thanksgiving weekend! God Bless! -Mark 'TWAS THE NIGHT OF THANKSGIVING 'Twas the night of Thanksgiving, But I just couldn't sleep. I tried counting backwards; I tried counting sheep. The leftovers beckoned-- The dark meat and white, But I fought the temptation with all of my might. Tossing and turning with anticipation, The thought of a snack became infatuation! So I raced to the kitchen, Flung open the door, And gazed at the fridge full of goodies galore. I gobbled up turkey and buttered potatoes, Pickles and carrots, beans and tomatoes. I felt myself swelling so plump and so round, 'Till all of a sudden, I rose off the ground! I crashed through the ceiling, floated into the sky With a mouthful of pudding and a handful of pie, But I managed to yell As I soared past the trees, "Happy eating to all-- pass the cranberries, please!" - --Author unknown. Selected from Mikey's Funnies: http://www.mikeysfunnies.com/ ******************************************************************** E-CARDS FOR THE HOLIDAYS: http://www3.bluemountain.com/index.html http://www.americangreetings.com/index.pd ************************************** WHAT'S ON TV TO FALL ASLEEP TO AFTER TURKEY TIME? http://www.tvguide.entertainment.aol.com/listings/index.asp?I=100182 ************************************** BLESSED BEYOND MEASURE! If you woke up this morning with more health than illness, you are more blessed than the million who will not survive this week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture or the pangs of starvation, you are ahead of 500 million people in the world. If you can attend a church meeting without fear of harassment, arrest, torture or death, you are more blessed than three billion people in the world. If you have food in the refrigerator, clothes on your back, a roof overhead and a place to sleep, you are richer than 75 percent of this world. If you have money in the bank, in your wallet, and spare change in a dish somewhere, you are among the top 8 percent of the world's wealthy. If your parents are still alive and still married, you are very rare, even in the United States. If you hold up your head with a smile on your face and are truly thankful, you are blessed because the majority can, but most do not. If you can hold someone's hand, hug them or even touch them on the shoulder, you are blessed because in a world that is dying from lack of touch, you can offer Spirit's healing embrace. If you can read this message, you just received a double blessing in that someone was thinking of you, and furthermore, you are more blessed than over two billion people in the world who cannot read at all. Have a good day, count your blessings and pass this along to remind everyone else how blessed we all are. - --Author unknown. ********************* Brought to you by. . . Mark Anthony Anzalone Special Friends Network ;) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your Reply is encouraged: Use the key word in the subject area and reply! Thank You for your participation with SFN. Love = Love your mailings. Keep it coming! Quit = Quit mailing me even though it's great stuff! Add = Add me to your general mailing list! (this mail) Lord = Put me on your exclusive Christian list! - ----------------------- end forwarded message from Manthony25@aol.com ----------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:30:41 -0600 From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: [Fwd: Thanks -- for liberty] - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Thanks -- for liberty Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:43:01 -0600 (CST) From: "Freedom News Daily" Reply-To: feedback@free-market.net To: libertynow@free-market.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- ==================> F R E E D O M N E W S <================== ----------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe or unsub: http://www.free-market.net/features/lists/ Freedom News in today's update: o The Mayflower Compact o The Pilgrims in Holland o How Private Property Saved the Pilgrims o Thanks -- for liberty Once again, the United States celebrate a national holiday bound to the country's founding traditions of personal freedom and private enterprise. For those of you within the United States, we wish you a happy Thanksgiving. For those outside the U.S., we hope that you'll join us for a celebration of liberty. yours, J.D. Tuccille The Mayflower Compact - ---------- The language sounds quaint and it's not inherently libertarian, but the Mayflower Compact constituted the first written constitution under which Americans ruled themselves rather than obeying the dictates of kings. (1620) http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/amerdoc/mayflowr.htm The Pilgrims in Holland - ---------- "Perhaps the greatest contribution of the Dutch to America was the 11 years of freedom they gave the Pilgrims -- crucial years that helped America's founding fathers work out their philosophy of freedom and prepare for self-government in the New World." (11/88) http://www.libertyhaven.com/countriesandregions/holland/pilgrims.html How Private Property Saved the Pilgrims - ---------- Extracted from Tom Bethell's book, "The Noblest Triumph," this essay explains how agrarian socialism almost destroyed the Plymouth colony, and how disaster was averted through the adoption of private property and enterprise. (1999) http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/publications/digest/991/bethell.html Thanks -- for liberty - ---------- On Thanksgiving, let's celebrate the Pilgrims' hard-learned lessons about the value of tolerance, freedom of conscience, private enterprise and private property. (11/21/01) http://www.free-market.net/spotlight/thanksgiving/ ----------------------------------------------------------------- ============/ End of Today's Freedom News Update \=============== ----------------------------------------------------------------- Please forward and copy this message. Freedom News Daily is edited by J.D. Tuccille. It's a service of Free-Market.Net: The Freedom Network and The Henry Hazlitt Foundation, a 501(c)(3) non-profit. To support Freedom News and our other activities please consider a tax-deductible membership donation now: https://ssl1.imagiware.com/hazlitt/ccard.html If you see stories that belong in Freedom News, let us know: http://free-market.net/cgi/addNews.cgi Opinions expressed are those of the writers and editors only. To subscribe or unsubscribe to this and other lists, click to: http://free-market.net/features/lists/ or http://free-market.net/cgi/listMgr.cgi (for members) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Bob in Mississippi - State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") My PGP Public Key(s): RKBA! "Gun 'proliferation' begins with 'pro' and 'life.' Gun prohibition begins with registration, and ends with genocide." --Dave Kopel, National Review Online, 6 Aug 2001 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:43:52 -0500 From: "Chad Leigh, Pengar Enterprises, Inc & Shire.Net LLC" Subject: chalk one up for the dummies http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=topnews&StoryID=401645 Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:26:36 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: Forfeiture Endangers Anyone's Rights? (fwd) - ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Swftl@aol.com ----------------------- From: Swftl@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:33:22 EST Subject: {slick-d} Forfeiture Endangers Anyone's Rights? Subj: FTalk: "Forfeiture Endangers ANYONE'S Rights"? Date: 11/16/2001 7:45:21 AM Eastern Standard Time From: leonf@perspicuity.net (Leon F.) Sender: owner-fear-talk@mapinc.org CC: info@hippocrates.com.au Organization: Forfeiture Endangers American Rights http://www.fear.org/ FEAR also offers a low-volume announcements list and digests for all lists The title is to suggest that the issue of asset forfeiture has become international in scope. Of course, legislators and law enforcement agencies have long recognized this and have organized to that purpose. Maybe it is time that we advocates of forfeiture reform think along the same lines. An excellent source of background information on the theories of forfeiture as a crime fighting tool and the necessity for the scheme to be international in scope is provided in an online document, "Recovering The Proceeds of Crime", , which I highly recommend that you read. The report documents a study conducted by the "Performance and Innovation Unit (PIU)" of the Cabinet Office of the United Kingdom and is available in html or pdf format. Asset forfeiture advocates recognize that for the seizure of assets from criminals to be effective, the program must be international in scope, for if not the criminal will make sure his major assets sit in a country in which forfeiture laws do not exist or have minimal enforcement. To that end, the US has established treaties and agreements with almost every country in the world to enable it to seize the assets wherever they may be. Because of that and the fact that forfeiture is so lucrative to the state, the modern forfeiture tactics, created by the US, has spread throughout the world like a virus -- see my somewhat dated article on this subject, "In the Community of Nations, the US has become the Mafia Don: Making offers 'You Can't Refuse' " at . In effect the US has become the "Typhoid Mary" of modern forfeiture. The government forfeiture agencies from around the world must cooperate and exchange ideas. If something works well in America, then other countries will work to adopt it and vice versa. This PIU report, you can be sure, will be the source of ideas for forfeiture advocates in the US as well as the other countries with ties to England. That is one good reason to read that report for in it you will see some new innovations that will be in store for us in the future. For example, the report praises the very successful, from a monetary sense, of the program in New South Wales: ===================================== Box 5.3: Criminal Assets Recovery Act (CARA) 1990, New South Wales New South Wales' CARA introduced a civil forfeiture regime that is different from any other one in operation, in that it is directed at persons rather than assets. The forfeiture trigger is proof to the civil standard that a person has within the past six years committed a serious offence (i.e. one that is punishable by five years' imprisonment or more). Following such a finding, all that person's property is liable to forfeiture, unless the owner proves to the civil standard that the property was lawfully acquired. There is no need to prove that assets were derived from criminal conduct. In recent years, the value of criminal proceeds forfeited under CARA has been greater than the total amount recovered under all other Federal, State and Territory confiscation laws in Australia. Following a report by the Australian Law Reform Commission (ALRC)10, the Australian Government is currently considering the introduction of Federal civil forfeiture legislation modelled on CARA. ===================================== Now that is interesting. Forfeiture has come full circle from its Medieval beginnings in which a person convicted of a serious crime lost all his assets to the government or the clergy. How would you like to prove or lose it that you got every asset and every dollar you may have legitimately? Now for those of you who think this might be a good idea for the US because "it only impacts criminals that have had a 5 year sentence or more", I suggest you not be so naive. In the US, laws are first generated in such a style that the majority of the public will support it as being reasonable in purpose and punishments. Then the numbers change in subsequent modifying legislation. For example, the cap for "administrative forfeiture" (property taken with no judicial action), has increased from its initial value of $1,000 to $2,500 in 1954; from $2,500 to $10,000 in 1978; from $10,000 to $100,000 in 1984; and to its present cap of $500,000 in 1990 (quoting from the *Asset Forfeiture Defense Manual*, Section 09C). You that defend the new "PATRIOT" law as being "reasonable and necessary to fight terrorism" should memorize these numbers. Another interesting thing the PIU study brings out is that, while you and I do not have access to the current facts on forfeitures in the US (The Justice Department is required by law to submit an annual report on its forfeitures within a few months after the end of the fiscal year. The latest report that I know of was for 1996 and it was delivered several years late), our government does share this information with other countries. Again I quote from the study: ================================== Box 6.1: US Asset Forfeiture Reinvigoration Programme This programme was initiated in 1996 by the US Attorney General who was convinced of the effectiveness of asset forfeiture in destroying the financial underpinnings of, in particular, drugs and white collar criminal enterprises. It requires federal law enforcement agencies to ensure that forfeiture is addressed in every appropriate case and puts in place steps to improve co-ordination between agencies. It also involves: * dissemination of information on best practice in confiscating assets; * model asset confiscation plans for law enforcement agencies; * increased forfeiture training for prosecutors and increased financial investigation training for agents; and * annual reporting of results. Since 1996, asset seizure receipts to the Department of Justice fund have almost doubled to $609 million in 1998/1999. The Treasury Department also collected $300 million in that same year. ===================================== You would think from reading that quote that the Attorney General is actually complying with the law that requires "annual reporting of results". Apparently the reporting is to English politicians, not to US citizens. One further item from the report needs to be brought out. It proposes that a high level agency be established (equivalent to our Cabinet level) with the title of National Confiscation Agency (NCA)! Now what do you think of that! Will the US let the Brits get ahead of us on forfeiture programs? More realistically, how soon will we also have a National Confiscation Agency? Surely it is in the works. Leon Felkins, Executive Director, FEAR leon@fear.org Organization: Forfeiture Endangers American Rights http://www.fear.org/ FEAR also offers a low-volume announcements list and digests for all lists List update: mailto:owner-fear-talk@mapinc.org?Subject=FEAR-talk-update List unsubscribe: mailto:fear-talk-request@mapinc.org?Body=unsubscribe - ----------------------- end forwarded message from Swftl@aol.com ----------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Vance Subject: ARE WE SAFE ENOUGH YET? (fwd) - -------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- From: BOBWORN@aol.com Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 07:54:02 EST Subject: ARE WE SAFE ENOUGH YET? ARE WE SAFE ENOUGH YET? HOW ABOUT TANKS IN OUR STREETS? By: Dorothy Anne Seese Does the American public feel "safe" enough yet, with the military at the airports, federalized security workers at airport checkpoints and armed air marshals on board some flights? Do we feel safer because of the USA PATRIOT act's swift passage that most of the folks who make up our Congress didn't have time to read? Are we comfortable that our president will determine, at his sole discretion, who will and who will not be hauled off to a military tribunal? Oh yes, I am aware that this applies only to aliens, non-US citizens, but once in the tribunal without access to a lawyer ... without anyone even knowing you're gone ... to whom does a citizen detainee complain? Do we feel safe yet? Somehow neither the Islamics, most Christians, and most average Americans, just haven't quite gotten the message that this conflict is the war of globalism vs. the sovereign state, the globalist agenda to silence dissidents, not just by conventional warfare but by strategic moves that alter the freedom of anyone to "duke it out" like people used to. Only sovereign nations could do that, and if there was any doubt that sovereign nations, at the option of the United Nations, can no longer live, wage war or negotiate peace on their own terms, the Balkans quagmire should have ended all doubt. Neither can belligerent religious factions conduct their own wars. I am not in favor of war, I hate it, but it is the nature of humans to fight, and this globalism is nothing more than the full repression of human nature as to freedom of speech, religion, national sovereignty and the right to rebel. Do we feel safer without our constitutional protections? Do we feel safer with the government taking over the land via environmentalist programs, land-grabs and full control of the means of food production, land use and the right of citizens to use their property as they see fit? Private land owners are dangerous, because they assert their right to freedom. The urban and land-use planners aren't fiction, they're here, they're real, and city-dwellers just haven't gotten the message. The farmers have tried to tell them, but the cries of Klamath farmers and other landowners were drowned out by the sirens, the speeches, and then the bombings following the September 11th act of terrorism. If someone will just stop and think, our "war on evil" is really a war against the rights of individuals to be individualistic. No nation can have a civil war without UN intervention. We're not permitted by the UN and the globalists to have our own private wars or government rules (whether harsh or not) ... and above all, the UN has declared that national sovereignty is eeee-vil! Think then, about the agenda of the present "war". Do we feel safe yet? How about if the military runs some tanks up and down the main streets of America's cities and towns? Will that make you feel better about our government protecting its citizens from terrorists? The way Americans have frozen with fear and hastened to surrender their liberties to an administration that is a de facto globalist plutocracy, even Congress is beginning to wonder whether we're going to come out of this "war" that they, the Congress didn't declare, with any semblance of the America we had on September 10, 2001. When Congress starts to worry, it's time for the American citizens to really start worrying! On October 16, 2001, just a little over a month post-WTC attack, we wrote an article entitled "The President ... and The Emperor Within" that drew a lot of fire from Bush supporters who believe this Christian president can do no wrong. Now some are beginning to question the actions of both the president and our Christian attorney general, John Ashcroft. I'd like to go on record here as agreeing with Franklin Graham in his politically incorrect assessment of Islam, and with Chuck Baldwin and his November 20, 2001 assessment of where America stands under the present administration's acts and orders. But do we feel safe yet? Will our citizens feel more secure with a Digital Angel implant or some other National ID, checkpoints at the borders between states and a few tanks scattered around the city square? Oh that can be arranged, no problem. All the government needs is something to scare our folks a little bit more, just enough to beg for these additional "protections". Then will you feel safe? Or do you want the mandatory vaccinations and bio-suits also? When will you feel safe? Or will someone tell you .. and will you believe ... what the government already knows? People who are prisoners of fear never feel safe. Our forefathers feared tyrants. Would to God .. the God of the Bible .. that we did also. - -------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #475 *************************