From: John Zorn List Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 10:50 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: John Zorn List V2 #139 John Zorn List Tuesday, November 4 1997 Volume 02 : Number 139 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:07:57 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Sergey Kuryokhin >>>>> "GraysonC" == GraysonC writes: GraysonC> Does anyone know of any mail-order outlets, or possibly GraysonC> stores in NYC, where i can find the "Divine Madness" box GraysonC> off of Leo? I've been looking for this desperately ever GraysonC> since it came out. Please e-mail me privately if you GraysonC> can help. Try Cadence. They are the Leo distributors in the US. http://www.cadencebuilding.com is their primary web site, but their catalog is not currently listed (probably too large). Caleb Deupree cdeupree@interagp.com Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 09:17:26 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Burhan Ocal and Werner Ludi >>>>> "Brian" == Brian Olewnick writes: Brian> I've had this for a good while (since 88 or 89 I think) Brian> and, I must say, this is probably the first time I've ever Brian> heard anyone reference it! It's a very good duet recording Brian> with Swiss altoist Ludi (I only know him from his Brian> collaborations with Peter Brotzmann) and Turkish Brian> percussionist Ocal. Ludi reins himself in a bit here, Brian> riding Ocal's wonderfully exotic (to Western ears) rhythms. Brian> I recall looking around for other releases featuring Ocal, Brian> but coming up empty. Anyone have more info? There are several releases with Ocal on Swiss labels. I've got a catalog here that lists 'Black Sea', by Ocal and Enver Izmailov on guitar; and a second Ludi/Ocal piece called 'The bird who makes the Cloud sing as he drums it'. Ocal also has an ambient release on Fax with Pete Namlook called 'Sultan', which is very much in the Fax vein, where Ocal plays a fair amount of oud as well as percussion. If anyone has heard the Ocal/Izmailov duet, I'd be interested in seeing some comments. Caleb Deupree cdeupree@interagp.com Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:55:08 +0200 (EET) From: "Res.Ass.N.Emrah Aydinonat" Subject: Re: Burhan Ocal and Werner Ludi Hi, Let me inform you about Ocal's newer CD SULTAN. This will be interesting for western ears. Turkish music is embodied in this CD. GRAND BAZAAR is better I think, I like Ludi's emprovisations. bye, Emrah - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:12:01 -0500 From: Alain Potvin Subject: Re: CBC radio (Haino Keiji) At 01:02 04/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Valkwitch wrote: >> >> Valkwitch wrote: >> > >> > > Did anyone manage to tape this? I don't have real-audio and the only >> > > radio-canada station in my area was the a.m. version which didn't play the >> > > concert. I'd be interested in getting ahold of this performance. >> > >> > are you able to get CBC radio 2, which is on FM but i'm unsure if the >> > keiji haino was broadcasted through CBC... I recorded the Haino Fushitsusha show last Sunday on Radio-Canada fm on the FRENCH network (they present a lot of Victo shows). It's really great. I was at the show at Victoriaville (Quebec) in May. I thought that music is especially interesting live. But it's only great on tape at a less high level Alain Potvin 1296 Julien St-Felicien Quebec, Canada - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 08:12:03 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Avant . . . On Mon, 3 Nov 1997 21:50:44 -0600 (CST) Mike Shepherd wrote: > > Does anyone know where a guy like me might find an Avant catalogue online? > Any label that would put out records by artists as disparate as Naked City > and Cake Like is of interest to me. - Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | AVANT CATALOGUE | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 01 - HERETIC, JEUX DES DAMES CRUELLES: Naked City (1992 - Avant, Avant 001 (CD)) 02 - GRAND GUIGNOL: Naked City (1992 - Avant, Avan 002 (CD)) 03 - RADIO: Naked City (1993 - Avant, Avant 003 (CD)) 04 - ABSINTHE: Naked City (1993 - Avant, Avant 004 (CD)) 05 - RADIO, VOL. 2: Naked City (not released - Avant, Avant 005 (CD)) 06 - DNA LAST LIVE AT CBGB: DNA (1993 - Avant, Avan 006 (CD)) 07 - BUCKETHEADLAND: Buckethead (1992, Avant, Avan 007 (2xCD)) 08 - ALLEGORICAL MISUNDERSTANDING: Fushitsusha (1993, Avant, Avan 008 (CD)) 09 - DREAMSPEED: Anton Fier (1993 - Avant, Avan 009 (CD)) 10 - CYCLOTRON: Blind Idiot God (1992 - Avant, Avan 010 (CD)) 11 - DISCO BY NIGHT: Anthony Coleman (1993 - Avant, Avan 011 (CD)) 12 - NANA + VICTORIO: Peter Garland (1992 - Avant, Avan 012 (CD)) 13 - SHOCK CORRIDOR: David Shea (1992 - Avant, Avan 013 (CD)) 14 - VOYAGER: George Lewis (1993 - Avant, Avan 014 (CD)) 15 - IN DOUBLE LIGHT: Lee Hyla (1993 - Avant, Avan 015 (CD)) 16 - PLEXURE: John Oswald (1993 - Avant, Avan 016 (CD)) 17 - CONSTRUCTION & DEMOLITION: Rough Assemblage (1995 - Avant, Avan 017 (CD)) 18 - ISABELLE: Zeena Parkins (1995 - Avant, Avan 018 (CD)) 19 - SMUT: David Soldier (1994 - Avant, Avan 019 (CD)) 20 - ??? 21 - BICYCLOPEDIA: David Weinstein (???? - Avant, Avan 021 (CD)) 22 - ??? 23 - ??? 24 - ??? 25 - ??? 26 - WOW 2: The Boredoms (1993 - Avant, Avan 026 (CD)) 27 - V AS IN VICTIM: Pigpen (1994 - Avant, Avan 027 (CD)) 28 - THE JOY OF DISEASE: Jim Plotkin (1996 - Avant, Avan 028 (CD)) 29 - DELICIOUS: Cake Like (1994 - Avant, Avan 029 (CD)) 30 - PAINTED DESERT: Ikue Mori (1995 - Avant, Avan 030 (CD)) 31 - WEDDING BANDS FROM RAJASTHAN: Disco Bhangra (1994 - Avant, Avan 031 (CD)) 32 - MIR SHLUFN NISHT: God Is My-Copilot (1994 - Avant, Avan 032 (CD)) 33 - SHREK: Marc Ribot (1994 - Avant, Avan 033 (CD)) 34 - HEADS & TALES 1-19: Z'ev (1996 - Avant, Avan 034 (CD)) 35 - 36 - SLAY THE SUITORS: Bobby Previte (1994 - Avant, Avan 036 (CD)) 37 - THE UNKNOWN: Phillip Johnston's Big Trouble (1994 - Avant, Avan 037 (CD)) 38 - WHOSE BRIDGE: Misha Mengelberg (1994 - Avant, Avan 038 (CD)) 39 - SIGNALS FOR TEA: Steve Beresford (1995 - Avant, Avan 039 (CD)) 40 - SPINNING SONG - DUCK BAKER PLAYS THE MUSIC OF HERBIE NICHOLS: Duck Baker (1996 - Avant, Avan 040 (CD)) 41 - FEAR NO LOVE: Bob Ostertag (1995 - Avant, Avan 041 (CD)) 42 - BATH: Chris Cochrane (1995 - Avant, Avan 042 (CD)) 43 - ??? 44 - ??? 45 - ??? 46 - CHINA COLLAGE: Sola & Wu Man (1996 - Avant, Avan 046 (CD)) 47 - SMARNAMISA (HIGH MASS): Resia Valley Music (1996 - Avant, Avan 047 (CD)) 48 - ARNHEM LAND: Andy Haas (1997 - Avant, Avan 048 (CD)) 49 - JOHN ZORN'S COBRA IN JAPAN: Makigami Koichi (1995 - Avant, Avan 049 (CD)) 50 - NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS: John Zorn (???? - Avant, Avan 050 (CD)) Note: was eventually released in March 1997 on Tzadik. 51 - HARMOLODIC JEOPARDY: Dim Sum Clip Job (1996 - Avant, Avan 051) 52 - WE ARE THE RAGE: Jad Fair & The Shapir O'Rama (1996 - Avant, Avan 052) 53 - PLAYS DISNEY: Buckethead (???? - Avant, Avan 053 (CD)) 54 - I NEED 5 MINUTES ALONE: Pieces (not released - Avant, Avan 054 (CD)) 55 - ??? 56 - HARRAS: D. Bailey, J. Zorn, W. Parker (1995 - Avant, Avan 056 (CD)) 57 - CHIMERA: Erik Friedlander (1995 - Avant, Avan 057 (CD)) 58 - LIVE IN EUROPE: Arcado String Trio (1996 - Avant, Avan 058 (CD)) 59 - CRACKSHOT: Joey Baron (1996 - Avant, Avan 059 (CD)) 60 - GUITAR, DRUMS'N'BASS: Derek Bailey, DJ Ninj (1996 - Avant, Avan 060 (CD)) 61 - VIRA LOUCOS: Cyro Baptista (1997 - Avant, Avan 061 (CD)) 68 - RAGGED JACK: Jamie Saft, Cuong Vu (1997 - Avant, Avan 068 (CD)) 72 - FAIR-HAIRED GUILLOTINE: Alva (1997 - Avant, Avan 072 (CD)) 73 - EAST SIDE PERCUSSION (1997 - Avant, Avan 073 (CD)) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 11:51:56 -0600 (CST) From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: Re: all talk, no info here A main concern with some of the musicians I heard from was that Zorn was playing so much, it seemed like he wasn't giving anybody else a chance. That seems kind of exaggerated to me, but I wonder if Zorn at the KF several times a month is better than several artists in his place once a month each. I can't believe I missed the 'last' Masada shows, but my friend bootlegged a Liebman show (he's taking lessons, don't worry about the moral conflict) that was amazing; I'll take what I can get either way, I suppose. On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote: > > > Err, well; methinks its healthy there's some discussion of this > > subject. Hearing the re-issue of the Cynical Hysterie Hour - the real > > revelation was not how great this disc sounds, but how slight so much of > > Zorn's most recent work sounds in comparison. I mean; he's releasing so > > much stuff onto the market, and a lot of it is (for me, personally) > > totally redundant. I certainly didn't used to feel this way about his > > work. > > I'm not sure which records you think are redundant. If you're talking > about Masada 1-256 (or whatever they're up to this week), I've defended > the volume of this stuff before, so I won't repeat myself. > > In any case, I doubt that the dropoff in quality you're talking about > has much to do with Zorn's overproduction. So far as I can tell, the > difference in Zorn's output now and his output in the 80's is that a > larger percentage of it's documented now. Check liner notes and you'll > find references to a number of Zorn compositions that went totally > unrecorded in the 80's. So far as I can tell, he's not actually more > prolific than he used to be. > > That being said, I do think _Kristallnacht_ is the most > recent album he's put out that stands with his very best work. But I also > think his recorded output in the last few years has been, on average, > stronger than his early 90's work. > > This kind of pattern seems fairly common among avant-gardists who > reach a degree of fame. Anthony Braxton, Steve Lacy, and Paul Bley leap > to mind as similarly prolific musicians. I suspect one reason for this is > that individual records by these artists don't sell in the quantities that > more mainstream records do. Selling a lot of records to a few people > helps make up the difference in income. > > Another reason, of course, is the understandable desire of artists to > document their work. (Heck, my improv group religiously archives every > rehearsal tape, and we have fewer fans than band members!) How much of > that work is worth preserving for posterity is another question. It's too > early for me to get the critical distance to decide whether Zorn is Duke > Ellington, Chet Baker, or Stan Kenton in this sense. > > I understand Braxton has spoken disparagingly of "the fallacy of the > good night". If I understand the phrase correctly, his point is that > musicians don't really work by producing single masterworks/performances, > but by a sort of continuous artistic development; it's a fallacy to try to > understand an artist's work in terms of the former. While it would be > crazy to try to listen to many musicians this way, I think this is how I > approach many of my favorite musicians (Zorn, Miles, Ornette, Eno). > Although masterworks are welcome, I'm not especially looking for them. > I'm just fascinated watching a talented musician develop over time. > Perhaps this is why I'm not bothered by possible overproduction. > > Sorry, That rant lasted much longer than I'd meant it to. > > Chris Hamilton > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ End of John Zorn List V2 #139 *****************************