From: John Zorn List Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 1997 4:52 PM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: John Zorn List V2 #147 John Zorn List Wednesday, November 5 1997 Volume 02 : Number 147 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 15:26:24 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Arcana (was Re: Bailey + d'n'b) At 07:17 PM 11/5/97 +0000, Scott Russell wrote: >This album is pretty amazing from whichever way you look at it. It's >very much in the same area as his other recent disc Saisoro (with Ruins) >and Arcana (with Laswell and Williams), ie unusual collaborations. Well since I am here, I thought I might mention, in my "shill" persona, that the second Arcana disk is out on Axiom. This doesn't have Bailey, but it does have Laswell and Williams along with a host of other people including Pharoah Sanders, Byard Lancaster, Graham Haynes, Buckethead (who does a surprisingly good job in this company), and Nicky Skopelitis. Unfortunately, Tony Williams died before it was finished and a session with Ornette never was recorded. Any way, readers of this list might like it. Some more information is at the Axiom Web Site (URL below.) End of "shill" mode, back to making erroneous statements. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:24:33 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Zappa On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Jason Edward Kocol wrote: > I am keeping in mind that everyone is entitled to their own > opinion, yet I find nothing mediocre about someone whose intention > everytime he picked up the guitar was to play something he had never > played before; to actually improvise and not just string together in > random order a bunch of "prepared licks" that most rock (using "rock" > loosely in Zappa's case) guitar players are guilty of, barring the > accusations that he was a "sloppy player". I don't think Zappa is mediocre, but this is hardly exceptional among musicians discussed on a list devoted to improvised music, eh? And I do think there are mediocre free players. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:30:18 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141 On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Nathan M Earixson wrote: > I think the assumption that anyone who "really gives Zappa a chance" is > instantly going to become your stereotypical rabid-Zappa-fan who laughs > incessantly at "joke" songs like "Why does it hurt when I pee", is just > plain foolish. In reason years, I've come to think that the scatological lyrics are actually the most "avant-garde" part of Zappa's post-60's work. They make me really uncomfortable, and there's very little in music that can do that. The closest analogue I can think of in the arts is some of Robert Crumb's comix work. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:52:14 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian's Interzone Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > [Closet prog fans should check out the Interzone disc on Eremite; I > was > > a little worried about myself when I thought this reminded me of > Pierre > > Moerlan's Gong (circa "Expresso II") but since then I've heard that > this > > was Gregg's "tribute" to Gentle Giant (and thus I wasn't really that > far > > off the mark).] > > So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a > closet > punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing > in my > head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this > record? Well, I don't think this sounds very much like Gentle Giant, but I don't *know* very much GG, having been turned off like you. To me Interzone sounds a lot like Pierre Moerlan's Gong... interesting instrumental rock which just happens to feature a vibraphone as the lead voice. And yes, the unison vibes'n'guitar lines are pretty amazing. It's not in the same league as your average Nels Cline Trio release for sheer sonic squall, but then, that wasn't Gregg's goal. "Interzone" is a fine little disc but I can't honestly say it made a huge impression on me... sounds like they just set out to have some fun and did so. Kinda like the Stephen Perkins-led Banyan record with Nels, Money Mark and Mike Watt in that sense. Your mileage may vary. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 18:21:30 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian's Interzone > So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a closet > punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing in my > head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this record? > > Chris Hamilton oh, no. not at all. It's a avant-garde jazz album with the kind of mix of composition and improvisation that people like Dave Douglas and Tim Berne do. It has very little to do with prog music. -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:18:04 -0600 From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: Avant . . . RE: Avant.....any comments on the "Harras" disk ? Also, It's hit and miss with this catalogue far as price goes. I walk into Tower and see some Avant disk's selling for normal prices while others are $20 and above.. - HARRAS: D. Bailey, J. Zorn, W. Parker (1995 - Avant, Avan 056 (CD)) glenn > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:16:21 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: John Zorn List V2 #141 On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > In reason years, I've come to think that the scatological lyrics are ^^^^^^ Agh! Too much Kant! I meant "recent". Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 16:35:29 -0800 From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Heteroclismic Z's Matthew Ross Davis wrote: I suggest people who want to know where Zappa came from read his autobiography, "The Real Frank Zappa Book." It gives lots and lots of insight as to where his influences came from and what made him be so heteroclismic in the first place (though the proper form of adjective might be 'heteroclitic'). Its often these details that make you understand and appreciate the artist more than if you just spout off that he writes too much music that sounds the same. At least some of those of us who don't care for (most of) Zappa's music are unlikely to swayed by a list of influences, no matter how heartfelt on Zappa's part. Statements of influence don't make the resulting music any more or less listenable; it's just an interesting fact about the person who made it. If influence was all it took to make great music, than all of those people studying Coltrane & Beethoven at universities would be the people making the most important music of our time & that's just not always the case. How the music sounds to a listener is what matters, not any intellectual claims made for it. For me, Zappa was a good guitarist who was often seduced by the competing urges to tell potentially offensive jokes in the name of free speech and to write post-serial classical music in the name of being taken seriously. I think many of the jokes are sophomoric (I'm glad he was willing to go to the wall for free speech, but the jokes were seriously stupid) and I think a lot of the contemporary classical music he wrote was often little more than derivative and lacked the creative spark of many of the works he used as models or of his own guitar playing. If Zappa's interest in offensive humor gets folks interested in Lenny Bruce or his interest in contemporary composition spurs further interest in Varese, Dolphy, Boulez, Nancarrow, Cage, (to name some of the composers who are obvious and/or oft-named influenced) and the like, that's all to the good, but Zappa's own work in these areas does not NOT seem to me to be ground-breaking art. The jokes don't build to form a complex whole like Bruce's concerts did & the compositions, while very competent examples of an ongoing compositional tradition, were not pioneering work. For me, there's simply better instances in the same veins to turn to. & I'll turn to them now, and avoid responding to further posts about Zappa. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:50:41 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Shepherd Subject: RE: Avant . . . On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Brandt Gebhardt wrote: > Speaking of Cake Like, anyone interested in trading for Delicious can > Email me privately. This band is compared to Melt-Banana on the Forced > exposure page. Generous, indeed. > > Brandt > I wouldn't say generous so much as inaccurate and misleading. Both bands are excellent at what they do, it just happens that those are two very different things. I think that Delicious is just that, although this year's follow up was pretty bad. And speaking of Melt Banana, if anyone has any MB records that they no longer want, especially the splits with Discordance Axis or GodCo, or the pre-Skin Graft LP, please let me know. - Mike - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:54:26 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Shepherd Subject: Re:Gregg Bendian's Interzone On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > So, I've heard some really good things about this disc, but, as a closet > punk, the Gentle Giant connection set off big "AVOID" signs flashing in my > head. Will those of us not into (most) prog be offended by this record? > > Chris Hamilton > It depends on the Gentle Giant stuff that's being paid tribute to. In my opinion, it doesn't get much better than the Power and the Glory, but most of the other stuff is just a little heavy on the porgressive meandering. "It's only romantic 'cause it never works." - Harriet the Spy ********************************* Mike Shepherd rein0065@frank.mtsu.edu Middle Tennessee State University (615) 898-3652 ********************************* - - ------------------------------ End of John Zorn List V2 #147 *****************************