From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Sunday, November 09, 1997 11:55 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #152 Zorn List Digest Sunday, November 9 1997 Volume 02 : Number 152 In this issue: - Re: Frank Frank Frank, What About Eno? pigpen need a tape deck Re: sun ra Thanks everybody Xenakis/Zorn Gerry Hemingway Re: Thanks everybody Re: Xenakis Links posts Re: posts Re: New Kraut Re: Going thru the motions, or invention? (more hot air) Stockhausen Homepage Re: gerry hemingway... Opening acts Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns Re: Opening acts Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns Re: Opening acts Re: gerry hemingway... NEED To Contact SAI KONG ... Re: sun ra ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 20:15:31 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: Frank Frank Frank, What About Eno? The Eno interview is a bit long to post to the list so I am posting it directly to individuals who e-mail me privately requesting it. sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:02:08 -0800 From: hywel davies Subject: pigpen does anyone have info. yet on the forthcoming Pigpen cd "daylight"? or details of the new Mark Dresser? - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 08:15:36 -0600 From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: need a tape deck Anyone have or know someone who is selling a used cassette deck ? It can be either single or double but needs dolby b and preferably dolby c. I've seen some floor models at the local stores but most of them seem overpriced....Anyway, i need to dub some tapes but don't feel like spending $300 on a new deck. Any info would be appreciated..thanks ! Glenn - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:31:24 -0500 From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" Subject: Re: sun ra Valkwitch wrote: > Sun Ra was quite prolific. While I can't guess the total number of > > documented recordings he released (not to mention the undocumented > ones too), > > it would probably be safe to say that the total was well over 150 > LPs. > > Sunny's lack of availability of course, was due to small pressings > and > > little distribution. The only way I picked up many of his El Saturn > > > recordings was at his concerts, and that was if you caught him early > enough > > in a tour. > i think most of his stuff (the saturn recordings)is being > re-released > by the evidence label.... While Mr. Sun Ra was on this planet he did record quite freely. Most of these recordings were distributed by Mr. Ra himself and were available only from him or at Third Street Jazz here in Philadelphia, where he spent his last days in his earthly disguise. These recordings are now being made available by Jerry Gordon of Evidence. He was the owner of Third Street Jazz, but is now Mr. Evidence. At one time Third Street was a mecca to jazz collectors back in the vinyl days. One entire wall was covered with the hand drawn labels of Mr. Ra's recordings. They are fondly remembered by those of us lucky enough to have been there. If I recall correctly 150 is probably on the low side. CDs are great, but vinyl was more fun!!! Alan Kayser > > > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 11:28:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Thanks everybody Just wanted to drop a note in here to say how much I am enjoying this mailing list. The diversity in subject material here is refreshing. On many lists, getting away from the intended subject (Zorn) means instant flaming by many of those who think a list should pertain to one subject alone. Unfortunately, I think my wallet will suffer in the long run... =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 12:42:05 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Xenakis/Zorn Listening to the recent release of Xenakis' 'Electronic Music' this morning (nothing like hearing 'Bohor' first thing in the AM!), I was struck by the thought of how, if one of his early pieces were included on, say, JZ's next Soundtrack album, it would fit in comfortably (especially a piece like 'Concret PH'). Nothing against Zorn's more exploratory electronic work (I like it quite a bit) but it's interesting to note how much of that 'sound world' was anticipated by Xenakis as much as 40 years ago! I noticed on the Tzadik site that this disc was listed as a recent purchase by JZ; I think the influence may have been profound. List subscribers who have enjoyed pieces like the soundtrack for 'The Black Glove' but have not yet heard Xenakis might like to give a listen. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 12:19:23 -0500 (EST) From: Jason Caulfield Bivins Subject: Gerry Hemingway I have to second all that Schwitterz, Tom and Steve have said about G.H. I'm especially excited to hear the new quartet with Eskelin, Anderson and Dresser (which in some ways may recall his work with BassDrumBone, a.k.a. Oahspe). But I feel compelled especially to pick up the Braxton thread and urge you all to pick up Quartet (1993) Santa Cruz, not just for Hemingway but for the sublime heights the quartet achieved on this recording. As a fan of all their work (esp. Willisau), this comes close to being the finest. Just my two cents. Jason Bivins - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:23:53 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: Thanks everybody >Unfortunately, I think my wallet will suffer in the long run... > >=dgasque= Better your wallet than your soul. sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 09:47:57 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: Xenakis Links For Tom Pratt--Xenakis composed choral works: http://www.brailsford.demon.co.uk/nlccrepx.htm Other Xenakis: http://www.emf.org/focus_xenakis.html http://www.emf.org/store_xenformal.html http://www.emf.org/cdcat_vandenburg.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 11:55:26 -0600 (CST) From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: posts Regarding multitude of posts recently, did everyone just start a vacation? I mean, talk about over-exposure! (but, keep it coming) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 10:13:23 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: posts >Regarding multitude of posts recently, did everyone just start a vacation? >I mean, talk about over-exposure! (but, keep it coming) Our souls will never suffer from over-exposure. Fr. sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 04:41:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: New Kraut In a message dated 97-11-07 10:42:01 EST, you write: << Any recommendations on any of the recent Tortoise offshoot (Isotope 217, Designer, Aerial M, Sea and the Cake, ...)? >> I've got the first 3 Sea and Cake CDs. The best description i've heard of them is "a 90's version of Steely Dan", which I think is as close to their music as i've heard. now spinning: The High Llamas- Gideon Gaye ( _Pet Sounds_ of the 90's) =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 04:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Going thru the motions, or invention? (more hot air) In a message dated 97-11-07 20:13:15 EST, you (James Douglas Knox) write: << Fer sure; but you haven't addressed the second part of the original query (what is the likely legacy of Zorn's work). And the inclusion of Zappa in the above list is pretty telling. I'm not alone in being totally bewildered by the esteem some people hold this guy in. For me, he's just a mediocre white guy playing tricked-up r'n'r. My personal opinion is that Zappa's stuff hasn't aged very well - it was kind of goofy and whacky at the time, but at a distance its increasingly hard to see what the fuss was about. >> I see your point to an extent, but you're not taking into account the span of years since Zappa's early works and the early works of Zorn- easily a 15 year difference. Maybe in that amount of time from today the arguement can be validated- right now it's mostly speculation. I am not what you would call a Zappa freak- matter of fact it took a while before I really got into his stuff. Up until that time (without really listening to anything by him), I thought he was some sort of weirdo. A friend of mine leant _Hot Rats_ to me and I was bowled over- couldn't believe I had missed out on such brilliant music for so long. <> I dunno. I consider _The Big Gundown_ and _Spillaine_ conceptual to many an extent- an obvious reflection of Zorn's love of the spagetti westerns and gangland movies/books that he grew up with. I get the idea that he wanted to pay homage to those memories rather than twist them into something new. <> Then we get back into the argument again...is there really anything new? I think the freshest new scene i've heard is the drum 'n' bass scene. In my mind, lots of potential to do some neat stuff using drum patterns as an instrument rather than a replacement for standard drums. While i'm not giving him credit entirely, Zappa was using the Synclavier more than a decade ago, to record rhythm patterns that were impossible for a human to re-create. It sounded too "artificial" to my ears then and did nothing for me. Now we have drum 'n' bass... <> I think he would probably laugh. Can you see a bust of Zorn, sitting on top of a piano 200 years from now? still spinning: The High Llamas- Gideon Gaye =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:53:55 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Stockhausen Homepage If you care about Stockhausen, don't miss this site: http://www.jimstonebraker.com/stockhausen.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:17:35 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: Re: gerry hemingway... (i think my first attempt at sending this didn't work...sorry if this is a repeat) > anyone like gerry hemingway? i just picked up "marmalade king" that i > found in the used racks... yes oh yes oh yes i do. I saw him without ever having heard of him before for five measly canadian dollars at a jazz festival in a smallish city in southern ontario last year. He does things with drums i didn't know you could do with drums...played solo drum kit for an hour and held everyone's attention...i picked up two CDs: - -solo acoustic works 83-92 - -solo electroacoustic works 84-95 (the dates may be wrong, but you get the idea) They're both increadible. The solo acoustic works has just about every extended drum technique i've ever heard of on it, and then more that he (i presume) invented himself; my favorites are the two tracks called 'trance tracks', which are heavily polyrhythmic, with every limb doing something different. He plays his floor tom strapped over his back so he can hit it with both hands like a mrdangam. He is, in short, the man. Solo, at least. I heard a recording of his quintet and couldn't really get into it...same goes for Joey Baron, though, and i still hold him in very very high esteem. Anyway, these CDs are on a label called RANDOM ACOUSTICS p.o. box 301070. D-50780 koln, germany phone (00)49-221-5106387 fax(00)49-221-5106386 - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 17:41:35 -0800 From: Herb Levy Subject: Opening acts Jeff Spirer (shill hobby boy, etc) wrote: > >This is true if the "star" always makes sure to bring new artists into the >circle. One of the things I thought the Clash did quite well on their >first American tour was exactly this - there had to be a relatively unknown >local band on each of their tour dates. (They also insisted on a black >band opening, which I think was mostly Bo Diddley on that tour; the (Young) >Rascals ("Groovin", "Good Lovin'", that band) also did this once they were >successful.) Hopefully Zorn understands the importance to both the >audience and to new musicians... While Zorn rarely seems to tour with opening acts, I think one of the most important aspects of what he's done to support many aother musicians, some of whom make work that's quite different from his, is the ambitious release schedule of Tzadik & Avant, particularly, to my taste, the composer series. Many of these musicians would find it difficult to get 2000 copies of a CD pressed, let alone get an advance to work with, instead of having to pay for most production costs out of pocket or through grant funds. & some of them, especially those from the world of contemporary classical music, wouldn't necessarily have easy access to the range of folks who have prior interest in Zorn's activities. Also note Zorn's curation of several festivals/concert series at KF and elsewhere (the first Radical Jewish Festival was in Europe). Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels that present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as wide a range of work. Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:42:52 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns > My problem with Zappa's music isn't with the music itself, far from it. > It's that for much of what it often seen as his most serious and > progressive music, the post serial chamber/orchestral works, there's other > similar music that I value much more highly based on my own experience and > taste. This is what invalidates the argument from influence for me: that > other work with similar influences (including some of the work that > influenced him) seems to me to be stronger and more original than Zappa's. indeed...if someone lists off thier 'influences', then they're placing the music they do along some sort of continuum (or in some sort of space, if you prefer a less linear metaphor). The assumption being made is that (some) people are familiar with the influences listed and they'll have these in mind to a greater or lesser extent when listening to whatever it is (Zappa, Zorn, etc..). If the music seems too derivative, then it isn't making a very interesting comment on the ideas presented in the music that inspired it. [this is, of course, completely relative to everything, blah blah blah, qualifying statement qualifying statement...] :) - -jascha - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:45:19 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: Re: Opening acts > > Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels that > present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as wide a > range of work. [agreement] - -jascha - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 13:50:58 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: "the music itself" & expectati0ns >I'm more concerned with issues of taste & reception than "the music >itself". For most purposes, "the music itself" isn't as important as a >listeners experience of it, nor are the two easily separated (in many ways >"the music itself" doesn't exist apart from our perception of it). This is >why I wrote > >>How the music sounds to a listener is what matters > >rather than just "how the music sounds." > This issue seems especially difficult when looked at from the perspective of the composer. Should the focus be more on "the music itself" or "how the music sounds to a listener?" How are either of these parameters defined? sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 17:05:48 -0500 From: "ALAN E. KAYSER" Subject: Re: Opening acts ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > > Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels > that > > present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as > wide a > > range of work. > > [agreement] > > -jascha > Yes, this is an aspect of Mr. Zorn that should not be overlooked. Tzadik has presented many deserving artists with a chance to get their works out to the public. Friedlander, Feldman, Krakauer, Ribot, etc etc. Hats off to him. If his many releases allow him the $$$ to put out works by others, then he deserves to be supported. Alan > - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 01:10:43 -0600 From: "Glenn Astarita" Subject: Re: gerry hemingway... - ---------- >Summary: Buy all of Hemmingway's Hat Art stuff if you can find it....classic, brilliant, captivating...incredible ensemble work.....of course his work with Braxton et al is exceptional.... glenn - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 10:48:00 -0500 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: NEED To Contact SAI KONG ... Hello, Please pardon the non-musical use of bandwidth & the cross-posting ... I urgently need to get in contact with SAI KONG, who used to be at U. Stony Brook, NY , but has now changed email addresses ... SAI, if you see this, PLEASE contact me. Thanks - -Patrick - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 04:41:28 -0500 (EST) From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: sun ra In a message dated 97-11-08 11:34:11 EST, you write: << If I recall correctly 150 is probably on the low side. CDs are great, but vinyl was more fun!!! >> I'm sure you are correct about that being on the low side. As great as the Evidence re-issues are, I have a feeling that we will be lucky to see half of his recordings released on CD. You are correct about the vinyl too. Those hand-painted El Saturns will always be one-of-a-kinds that CD-sized duplications will never touch. =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #152 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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