From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 6:39 PM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #159 Zorn List Digest Saturday, November 15 1997 Volume 02 : Number 159 In this issue: - re: in need of NEW music. Re: Sigillum S. Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b) CD SALE! Painkiller? Re: In Need of NEW music. CD filing Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* Re: Sigillum S. Oversimplified Historical Flowchart Analysis (OHFA) RE: Oversimplified Historical Flowchart Analysis (OHFA) lustmord Re: lustmord Re: Painkiller? Otomo Yoshihide? Re: lustmord Re: Absinthe *Live* RE: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 12:53:21 -0500 (EST) From: ak515@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David Polak) Subject: re: in need of NEW music. Geroge Clinton & the P-Funk All Stars - Live... and Kicken Disco Biscuits - Encephalous Crime A String Cheese Incident - S/T Miles Davis - Agharta Miles Davis - Pangaea Miles Davis - On The Corner Ornette Coleman & Joaquim Kuhn - Colors John Zorn - The Parachute Years - -- "Reality is too harsh. Imagination makes everything nice. Use your imagination to get out of the most drab places by simply holding on to the imagination and making it real." - Sun Ra - - ------------------------------ Date: From: Sean Terwilliger Subject: Re: Sigillum S. Jeff Spirer wrote: > > At 10:02 AM 11/12/97 -0500, Sean Terwilliger wrote: > >I'm seeking information on this CD. I understand it's part of a 3cd > set. > >Is it in itself a full length CD? Is Laswell on it at all? Is it > good? > > Info on Sigillum S. can be found on the web page: > > http://www.hyperreal.org/music/labels/axiom/bios.html I've read that. It doesn't tell me tracklist, playingtime, players, etc. >It doesn't have Bill on it, although _Ashes_, > which grew out of the same root (Eraldo's mind), does. _Ashes_ is > quite good. Yeah, I've got Ashes, and love it. Really nice CD. Thanks Jeff Sean - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:01:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: d'n'b recommendations was (Re:Bailey & d'n'b) >I'm still looking for experimental and/or fast stuff >in drum n' bass but keep being disappointed. I came across a pretty neat Japanese d'n'b duo called Tagomago. They have 2 releases on the Transonic label. Their music is a bit hard to describe- improvised in places, lounge-y in others...overall a bit towards the "jazzstep" genre and a lot more "esoteric" than most of the d'n'b i've heard lately. on now: Korai Orum '96' (kinda like a Hungarian Ozric Tentacles) =dgasque= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:15:36 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: CD SALE! Hey everyone! I have five CD's I would like to either sell or trade. Contact me ASAP if you're interested!! Joint Venture - Mirrors (Enja) $9 1993 album by the collective quartet of Ellery Eskelin (tenor sax), Paul Smoker (trumpet), Drew Gress (bass) and Phil Haynes (drums). Over 70 minutes. p53 - p53 (ReR) $10 This is a Chris Cutler project featuring Cutler (objects, low gradeelectronics), Lutz Glandien (computer, samples, real time processing), Marie Goyette (grand piano), Zygmunt Krauze (grand piano) and Otomo Yoshihide (turntables, homebuilt guitar). Hank Roberts - Birds of Prey (JMT) $6 Out of print album by cellist Hank Roberts known for his work with Tim Berne, Miniature, etc. This is his rock album and the only one I can think of by a cellist. Includes Roberts (cello, vocals), D.K. Dyson (vocals), Mark Lampariello (guitar, vocals), Jerome Harris (bass, vocals), Vinny Johnson (drums, vocals). Joey Baron's Barondown - Tongue In Groove (JMT) $11 Out of print album by drummer Baron known for his work with Zorn, Douglas, Frisell etc. This album features a very unusual lineup of Baron (drums), Ellery Eskelin (tenor sax) and Steve Swell (trombone). Ray Anderson - What Because (Gramavision) $8 Anderson is a trombone master! This album features Anderson (trombone), Allan Jaffe (guitar), John Hicks (piano), Mark Dresser (bass) and Pheeroan akLaff (drums). -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:21:24 -0600 From: Evan Jones Subject: Painkiller? Hello all, I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the Painkiller stuff Zorn's done. Anybody know where I can mail-order, write, or otherwise? Ev. PS: Who besides me wants to see Zorn play with Steve Albini? "Ya know, I've watched a lot of horror flicks in my day, and all I have to say is DON'T MESS AROUND WITH BOOKS IN LATIN WITH PENTAGRAMS ON THEM!!!" - Ev. http://www.flash.net/~baka/home.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:41:52 -0500 From: Tom Pratt Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music. > Does it imply that they are competing for the very same kind of music and, > for such a reason, that ordering them in terms of value makes sense? all right, all right... I like Zingaro's solo disc more than Feldman's. How's That? (: > Tom, what do you think of Phil Wachsman? I have the impression that he > never released a solo violin record? Phillip Waschmann has released two solo violin albums with live electronics. One is an LP released on Bead Records from 1984 called 'Writing In Water' (Bead 23) and the other is a pretty recent CD release on Bead also called 'Chathuna' (Bead CD 03). Waschmann is highly recommended as well. Anybody else have some solo violin recs for me (and everyone else)? -Tom Pratt - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:28:23 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: CD filing > > I've started experimenting with storing CDs by genre instead of the > > previous method of simply alphabetical by artist, and I've ended up > The best filing method i've ever heard of is colour-of-spine. How about by height? :) - -jascha - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 15:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: ia zha nah er vesen Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* > > People aren't going to make the jump from "No Doubt" to > > today's avant garde improv type music. They need to jump back a few decades > > and work their way forward, > > You need to qualify this generalisation - its patently wrong. I discovered > Zorn via his work with Diamanda Galas on the Big Gundown; and I knew a > whole-crew of long-haired metal-heads who found their entre to free jazz > thru' Zorn's Painkiller and Naked City (which was near enough to my own > path)... > I did the metalhead-->painkiller-->naked city-->avant garde jazz thing too (i even bought the Big Gundown because of Diamanda, as well...). This is probably fairly common, but i don't think that means NObody went backwards to Miles and then forwards again...just that we didn't. Maybe the Wynton-->Miles-->Zorn (whew!) thing has happened somewhere, somehow...to someone...maybe....... - -jascha - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:47:17 -0600 (CST) From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* I went from Zorn to Miles to Wynton. Just by association; has little to do with 'validity' of music invloved. It's all there for us to take. On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > People aren't going to make the jump from "No Doubt" to > > > today's avant garde improv type music. They need to jump back a few decades > > > and work their way forward, > > > > You need to qualify this generalisation - its patently wrong. I discovered > > Zorn via his work with Diamanda Galas on the Big Gundown; and I knew a > > whole-crew of long-haired metal-heads who found their entre to free jazz > > thru' Zorn's Painkiller and Naked City (which was near enough to my own > > path)... > > > > I did the metalhead-->painkiller-->naked city-->avant garde jazz thing > too (i even bought the Big Gundown because of Diamanda, as well...). This > is probably fairly common, but i don't think that means NObody went > backwards to Miles and then forwards again...just that we didn't. > Maybe the Wynton-->Miles-->Zorn (whew!) thing has happened somewhere, > somehow...to someone...maybe....... > > -jascha > > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:05:07 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Sigillum S. At 10:02 AM 11/12/97 -0500, Sean Terwilliger wrote: >I'm seeking information on this CD. I understand it's part of a 3cd set. >Is it in itself a full length CD? Is Laswell on it at all? Is it good? Info on Sigillum S. can be found on the web page: http://www.hyperreal.org/music/labels/axiom/bios.html I haven't heard it yet, Eraldo promised me a copy a while back but I haven't seen anything. It doesn't have Bill on it, although _Ashes_, which grew out of the same root (Eraldo's mind), does. _Ashes_ is quite good. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 13:16:24 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Oversimplified Historical Flowchart Analysis (OHFA) >I went from Zorn to Miles to Wynton. Just by association; has little to >do with 'validity' of music invloved. It's all there for us to take. I went from Louis Armstrong to Al Hirt to The Beatles to Chicago to Blood Sweat and Tears to Soft Machine to Return to Forever to Mahavishnu to Miles to Oregon to Ralph Towner to Codona to Don Cherry to ECM to Art Ensemble of Chicago to AACM to Monk to Mingus to Coltrane to Dolphy to Braxton to Cecil to FMP to Incus to Hat Art not necessarily in that disorder and with many critical omissions. Can't remember how I learned of Zorn....must've read about him...Locus Solus was my first...on vinyl. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 16:42:33 -0500 From: Chris from Zeke's Subject: RE: Oversimplified Historical Flowchart Analysis (OHFA) Howdy! I went from my parents' record collection, to Bruce Springsteen, to Al = Green, to Tackhead, to The Kronos Quartet, to John Zorn, to Dick Dale, = to Jean Leloup and back again. There are alot of omissions, and I've = found that liking one disc and then deciding to be a completist makes = for very heavy moving days. My first album with John Zorn (I think...) was the Hal Wilner "That's = the way I feel now."=20 I still feel the same way. Chris - ---------- From: Schwitterz[SMTP:mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us] Sent: Saturday, November 15, 1997 4.16 > Noon To: zorn-list@xmission.com Subject: Oversimplified Historical Flowchart Analysis (OHFA) >I went from Zorn to Miles to Wynton. Just by association; has little = to >do with 'validity' of music invloved. It's all there for us to take. I went from Louis Armstrong to Al Hirt to The Beatles to Chicago to = Blood Sweat and Tears to Soft Machine to Return to Forever to Mahavishnu to = Miles to Oregon to Ralph Towner to Codona to Don Cherry to ECM to Art Ensemble = of Chicago to AACM to Monk to Mingus to Coltrane to Dolphy to Braxton to = Cecil to FMP to Incus to Hat Art not necessarily in that disorder and with = many critical omissions. Can't remember how I learned of Zorn....must've read about him...Locus Solus was my first...on vinyl. - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 14:06:37 -0800 From: David Slusser Subject: lustmord I prefaced my earlier comments on sex and death as provocative - wanting to stir up a few "flames" on the old zorn-list. By going to extremes, it points up the folly of those(Wynton) that attempt to define art (or blackness). It's ineffable, but sure generates amusing reading (much like the Beauty thread). What really happens in musical art defies words. What I find interesting are people's reactions and feelings. Whitney Balliet(sp?) is a good read in that regard - describing the ambience of the performance and the shape of the music. But....more on SEX and DEATH - (here's where the topic becomes relevant) I participated in Zorn's "Elegy" recording a few years back around Thanksgiving. It concerned the writing and life of Jean Genet. In preparation Zorn referred us to Genet's writing, and the demi-monde of the prison punk- murder, drugs, petty theft, S&M, homosexuality and death. To get in the mood in the morning before recording, Zorn and Mike Patton put on videos (not exactly snuff films) of people losing their lives by various means. To sustain the grim mood during a break for the Thanksgiving holiday, Zorn and a few others attended an autopsy at a medical school! In light of that, I don't think my comments about death were "fucking stupid". I'll give you this, though, the Genet recording also concerned sex. Trying to smoothly segue- I recently ran across the word lustmord (German?) and wanted a clear definition for my own perverse purposes. Then (funny how this works) I read about a band with the same name. Anyone hear of them? Relevant quote: I believe there are two types of people in the world- those that divide people into groups and those that don't. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:49:30 -0500 From: Glenn Ianaro Subject: Re: lustmord David Slusser wrote: > Trying to smoothly segue- > I recently ran across the word lustmord (German?) and wanted a clear > definition > for my own perverse purposes. Then (funny how this works) I read > about a > band with the same name. Anyone hear of them? > >From what I know of lustmord it actually is the last name of Brian Lustmord. He titles he uses it as the name for his releases. I have only 1, being Heresy I II III IV V VI. It is released on Soleilmoon Recordings and a Ambient aural soundscape kind of thing that I think is really wonderful. It is just Brian Lustmord and Andrew Lagowski doing Programming. It says that that it was recorded in subterranean loacations such as crypts, caverns, mines, deep shelters and catacombs along with material of a seismic and volcanic origin. It also has written that it takes advangate of psycho-acoustic phenomena and the physical effects of low frequency information. Other that this I know that Brian Lustmord did some work with Brian Eno a while back, but I am not sure what. I am very interested in finding more work by Lustmord but haven't been able to as of yet. If you find anything else out, please let me know. I hope that this helps out a bit. GLENN - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:01:03 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Painkiller? At 02:21 PM 11/15/97 -0600, Evan Jones wrote: > > Hello all, > > I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the Painkiller stuff Zorn's >done. Anybody know where I can mail-order, write, or otherwise? Try one of those mail order places that specializes in CDs from Japan. You will pay a fortune, but you will get all of them. (By the way, Praxis' _Sacrifist_, which has a Zorn track and is deleted in the US, is still available in Japan also.) Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:41:46 -0500 From: "Jason J. Tar" Subject: Otomo Yoshihide? Hello, Was just recently introduced to Otomo Yoshihide's work (mainly his Ground Zero recordings), and was wondering what other releases by him people may suggest (as it seems as though he has many, many recordings available)? Thanks. - --- Peace Hugs and Unity, Jason J. Tar Vampire Rodent Productions http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 17:50:25 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: lustmord At 7:49 PM 11/15/97, Glenn Ianaro wrote: >From what I know of lustmord it actually is the last name of Brian >Lustmord. He titles he uses it as the name for his releases. I have >only 1, being Heresy I II III IV V VI. It is released on Soleilmoon >Recordings and a Ambient aural soundscape kind of thing that I think is >really wonderful. It is just Brian Lustmord and Andrew Lagowski doing >Programming. It says that that it was recorded in subterranean >loacations such as crypts, caverns, mines, deep shelters and catacombs >along with material of a seismic and volcanic origin. It also has >written that it takes advangate of psycho-acoustic phenomena and the >physical effects of low frequency information. > >Other that this I know that Brian Lustmord did some work with Brian Eno >a while back, but I am not sure what. I am very interested in finding >more work by Lustmord but haven't been able to as of yet. If you find >anything else out, please let me know. I hope that this helps out a >bit. > I've only heard one of his works, a collaboration with Robert Rich called "Stalker", which is an amazing disc of glacially slow moving ambient electronic drones, inspired by the even more amazing Tarkovsky film of the same title. I've been meaning to check out more of his stuff. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:38:10 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Absinthe *Live* On Mon, 10 Nov 1997, [iso-8859-1] R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: > I was wondering, did Naked City ever perform songs from Absinthe live? I= f > not, could it have been done, or was this recording too much of a sound > collage to be reproduced in a live context? >=20 Don't know about Naked City, but there 've certainly been live performances of something called, and patterned after, Absinthe. One that I know happened in Germany, '94 (I think); I'll have to check on the complement tho' - some NC members, and I few others like David Shea. Cheers, Jim "To be a good revolutionary, we must pass all our academic exams" - Dusan Makavejev - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:39:28 -0600 From: JRZ Subject: RE: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* >> People aren't going to make the jump from "No Doubt" to >>today's avant garde improv type music. They need to jump back a few = decades >> and work their way forward, You need to qualify this generalisation - its patently wrong. I = discovered Zorn via his work with Diamanda Galas on the Big Gundown; and I knew a whole-crew of long-haired metal-heads who found their entre to free jazz thru' Zorn's Painkiller and Naked City (which was near enough to my own path)... OK, it's not the only way to get into Zorn's music. I was assuming a lot = of people, like myself, came to know Zorn through the jazz tradition. = It's obviously not the only path. Although my days as a long-haired = metal head certainly didn't hurt. I am, however, still trying figure out = what the big deal is with "Naked City". >I dunno who this "average" person is - politicians and market analysts >talk about him/her a lot, but I've never met him/her. And damn glad I = am=20 >of it - he/she sounds like a real fuckwit! Someone's gotta be buying the Hootie albums.=20 zube - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #159 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. 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