From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Sunday, November 16, 1997 12:34 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #160 Zorn List Digest Sunday, November 16 1997 Volume 02 : Number 160 In this issue: - Re: Otomo Yoshihide? Re: Metal Machine Music Re: Painkiller? Re: Painkiller? Re: Otomo Yoshihide? Re: Painkiller? RE: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: lustmord Re: Metal Machine Music Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: lustbored Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* Re: lustbored Re: lustmord Re: lustmord Re: lustmord RE: Opening acts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 18:41:23 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide? Subject: Otomo Yoshihide? >Hello, >Was just recently introduced to Otomo Yoshihide's work (mainly his Ground >Zero recordings), and was wondering what other releases by him people may >suggest (as it seems as though he has many, many recordings available)? >Thanks. Don't miss this one. Carl Stone and Otomo Yoshihide/Monogatari: Amino Argot. Saw them live as well. Stunning both ways. http://www.sukothai.com/Otomo1.html sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 19:32:07 -0700 From: tricky88@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Metal Machine Music > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 7 Nov 1997 09:41:40 -0800 > From: "pjm" > Subject: Re: Metal Machine Music > I thought >that I might be able to stir up a > little more dust, by asking what people think about Metal Machine Music >by > Lou Reed. > Ahh, M.M.M.! Truly, THIS was the piece of music I heard in high school that really opened a lot of doors for me. I strongly suggest reading Lester Bangs before and during listens of this album to increase its power. In fact I can't remember if I heard this one before my first Naked City album or not. I listened to it all the way through, and it got sort of > annoying, but there are lots of interesting sounds. I've listened to just a > few minutes of it since, mainly to turn other people on to it, and i guess > i can see how people could find it almost unlistenable, but it's > interesting enough to hold onto....... I've found no album that has suffered as much in it's (sloppy) transfer to CD as this one. I had a vinyl copy and each of the four sides were 16:04 I believe. This kind of music in these shorter doses with forced manual work in between each side allows the listener to become much more familiar with the piece. After a few listens you can recognize bits in the beginning of each side, and so it becomes more familiar; not the same static noisy mess it appears to be at first. Years later at a record show I found a French pressing of the CD. I think it is divided into 4 tracks, but I could tell from the first listen that they got starts and endings wrong! The bastards must have thought that no one would ever know! Especially disturbing was the lack of duplicating the locked-groove at the end of side 4. On vinyl the fourth side never ends. At 16: 04 it jsut repeasts itself and keeps doing so 33 1/3 times a minute until you shut it off. This was more than a gimmick ; the repitition of that small bit of sound over and over again really creates a nice ending for the work; almost a "hook," or a reward for having made it through. I remeber driving bringing a tape of it to high school and telling the metal heads that it was an expreimental piece that Don Dokken was working on. I also used to try to fall asleep to it , use it cure headaches, expose it to my cats (no reaction), family members (big reaction) and piano teacher (disasterous reaction). Meanwhile Zorn yells at Lou's avant girlfriend to shut up and listen to the music. ha. Mark. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:01:04 -0500 From: rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca ( =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette) Subject: Re: Painkiller? >> I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the Painkiller stuff Zorn= 's >>done. Anybody know where I can mail-order, write, or otherwise? > >Try one of those mail order places that specializes in CDs from Japan. You >will pay a fortune, but you will get all of them. Wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to wait a bit until they're all reissued on Tzadik? At least the 3-CD version of Execution Ground is scheduled for Jan. '98, for the others I'm still waiting patiently... but will this ever be done? Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 20:03:59 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: Painkiller? At 11:01 PM 11/15/97 -0500, R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: >>> I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the Painkiller stuff Zorn's >>>done. Anybody know where I can mail-order, write, or otherwise? >> >>Try one of those mail order places that specializes in CDs from Japan. = You >>will pay a fortune, but you will get all of them. > >Wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to wait a bit until they're all >reissued on Tzadik? At least the 3-CD version of Execution Ground is >scheduled for Jan. '98, for the others I'm still waiting patiently... but >will this ever be done? Depends on how soon you want them. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:36:16 -0500 (EST) From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide? I would suggest you look for these recordings by Otomo: 1. Otomo Yoshihide "We Insist?" on Sound Factory Records 2. Ground Zero: Conflagaration on CMDD Michelle On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Jason J. Tar wrote: > Hello, > Was just recently introduced to Otomo Yoshihide's work (mainly his Ground > Zero recordings), and was wondering what other releases by him people may > suggest (as it seems as though he has many, many recordings available)? > Thanks. > --- > Peace Hugs and Unity, > Jason J. Tar > Vampire Rodent Productions > http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm > Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate. > > - > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:05:12 -0600 From: "Petsitter" Subject: Re: Painkiller? I'd be willing to pay a fortune from "one of those mail order places that specializes in CDs from Japan." How about a name of one that has Rituals: Live in Japan or Guts of a Virgin? I finally found Burried secrets at a local used CD store, but have also found it an absolute bitch to track down the others. So if you know where I can find the others..... Thanx - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: RE: The big deal with _Naked City_ On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, JRZ wrote: > I am, however, still trying figure out what the big deal is with "Naked City". Although _Naked City_ was the record through which I first got into Zorn, I found the joke really palled after a few years for me. I'm glad to know someone else here doesn't like it much. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:42:18 +1100 From: "Julian" Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ > > I am, however, still trying figure out what the big deal is with "Naked City". > > Although _Naked City_ was the record through which I first got into Zorn, > I found the joke really palled after a few years for me. I'm glad to know > someone else here doesn't like it much. That is the idea, to hit hard, at least for a couple of listens. I don't know quite what you mean by "joke". - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:50:41 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: lustmord On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, David Slusser wrote: > I prefaced my earlier comments on sex and death as provocative - wanting to > stir up a few "flames" on the old zorn-list. By going to extremes, it points > up the folly of those(Wynton) that attempt to define art (or blackness). Mostly it just makes you look like a troll. I'm suspicious of essentialist accounts of art and race myself, but the fact that you can endorse an obviously silly one doesn't show that other accounts are foolish. Personally, I think Crouch's line (which I'm not willing to pin on Wynton) is somewhat interesting, albeit misguided, although I wish it weren't so often couched in racebaiting rhetoric. > It's ineffable, but sure generates amusing reading (much like the Beauty > thread). > What really happens in musical art defies words. What I find interesting > are people's reactions and feelings. Whitney Balliet(sp?) is a good read > in that > regard - describing the ambience of the performance and the shape of the > music. Perhaps this is why I find Balliett's writing so dull. Personally, I'm generally bored to tears by people's purely personal reactions to music. (Yeah, I'm aware of the irony in the last sentence.) Certainly, words can't sum up music. If they could, we needn't bother with the music itself. But they can certainly help us come to grips with it. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 00:58:16 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Metal Machine Music tricky88@earthlink.net wrote: > Meanwhile Zorn yells at Lou's avant girlfriend to shut up and listen to > the music. ha. Naahhh, let's not belittle Zorn's balls. It wasn't Laurie yapping, it was the U.S. Secretary of State and the Czech President.Loved your play-by-play on "MMM" though... my copy was a cassette so I can't claim to have had as profound an experience. Steve Smith ssmith@knitti... oh shit, wait, ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:02:48 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Christopher Hamilton wrote: > On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, JRZ wrote: > > > I am, however, still trying figure out what the big deal is with "Naked City". > > Although _Naked City_ was the record through which I first got into Zorn, > I found the joke really palled after a few years for me. "Joke"? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:12:05 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ >> >> > I am, however, still trying figure out what the big deal is with "Naked City". >> >> Although _Naked City_ was the record through which I first got into Zorn, >> I found the joke really palled after a few years for me. A few YEARS? Any joke which takes a few years to pall is a damn good joke. sZ > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:10:45 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Julian wrote: > That is the idea, to hit hard, at least for a couple of listens. I don't > know quite what you mean by "joke". Well, I take it that most of the interest of the record comes from the startling juxtapositions of genres. The tracks work like nonsequiturs, which I usually find funny (hence "joke"). But on _Naked City_, there's not much substance left once I get past the shock of the juxtaposition. The individual segments sound like the product of overly slick session musicians in comparison to good generic rockabilly, metal, lounge music, etc. The juxtapositions themselves don't signify anything beyond shock value because they're deliberate nonsequiturs. The strategy works best on _Torture Garden_ because the juxtapositions are so compressed and performed so consistently at breakneck speed that they provide a sense of rhythm that's absent on the first record. Actually, I think _Torture Garden_'s pretty great, although I don't often want to hear it. _Radio_ tries to superimpose the genres rather than horizontally juxtaposing them, but still sounds a bit too slick to my ears. (My criticisms don't apply to the other Naked City records since they don't use this approach at all.) Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:13:22 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ On Sun, 16 Nov 1997, Steve Smith wrote: > "Joke"? I already explained this in another post, but I must say that I'm appalled that so many Zorn-listers are at a computer and sober enough to type coherently at this time on a Saturday night. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:15:24 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: lustbored CH wrote: >Personally, I'm generally bored to tears by people's purely personal reactions to music. Odd statement from someone who signs up for an e-mail music discussion list and participates and interacts actively. Is that what you meant by ironic? sZ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:23:51 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ At 01:13 AM 11/16/97 -0500, Christopher Hamilton wrote: >I already explained this in another post, but I must say that I'm appalled >that so many Zorn-listers are at a computer and sober enough to type >coherently at this time on a Saturday night. What time? It's 10PM. You should be more appalled that I'm not out. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:21:44 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Schwitterz wrote: > A few YEARS? Any joke which takes a few years to pall is a damn good joke. Sure. But a work of art which palls after a few years may not be so good. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:23:32 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote: > Also: that his music is just fucking passe'. I mean, c'mon; Zappa is one > thing - but this guy is just a freakin' Glenn Miller in black-face! This is not only in poor taste, but wrong as well. Marsalis's work is too stiff; Miller's work is too timbrally sweet. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Hamilton Subject: Re: lustbored On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Schwitterz wrote: > Odd statement from someone who signs up for an e-mail music discussion list > and participates and interacts actively. Is that what you meant by ironic? Actually, the irony I intended was that I was reporting a purely personal reaction to a kind of writing. I'm generally only interested in informational posts, ideological arguments, analysis of music, and cool anecdotes. I pass over posts about how people liked/were moved by a record most of the time, the same way I pass over posts about musicians whose work I don't like. I mean, I know other people like that stuff, and that's fine. I just don't much care about the personal feelings of people I don't know about music. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:49:06 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: lustmord On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Glenn Ianaro wrote: > From what I know of lustmord it actually is the last name of Brian > Lustmord. actually, his given name is Brian Williams. Lustmord is a word he chose as an alias. the word "lustmord" loosely translated means "sexdeath". > He titles he uses it as the name for his releases. I have > only 1, being Heresy I II III IV V VI. It is released on Soleilmoon interestingly enough, Brian is in the process of putting together an official web presence. it will be hosted at the Soleilmoon website. should be ready in the next few days. in the meantime, here is a brief discography: 1991 A Document of Early Acoustic & Tactical Experimentation (CD, Dark Vinyl) 1990 Paradise Disowned (CD, Side Effects) 1990 Heresey (CD, Soleilmoon) 1992 The Monstrous Soul (CD, Side Effects) 1994 The Place Where The Black Stars Hang (CD, Side Effects) > Recordings and a Ambient aural soundscape kind of thing that I think is > really wonderful. It is just Brian Lustmord and Andrew Lagowski doing > Programming. actually, only "Paradise Disowned" and parts of "Heresey" include Andrew Lagowski. "Document" was done with John Balance (Coil), Nigel Ayers (Nocturnal Emissions) and Nigel Dunster. "The Monstrous Soul" was recorded with Adi Newton (Clock DVA) and "The Place Where Black Stars Hang" is a true solo recording. > Other that this I know that Brian Lustmord did some work with Brian Eno > a while back, but I am not sure what. i think you've got Lustmord confuddled with Robert Fripp who worked with Eno on two seminal recordings "No Pussyfooting" and "Evening Star". Brian Williams was a member of SPK and founded the Side Effects label at the encouragement of his friends in Throbbing Gristle. after SPK broke up, fellow band member Graeme Revell went on to work in the motion picture industry composing/recording soundtracks. the main focus of Lustmord is use of psychoacoustics. deep, cavernous rumblings and ambient soundscapes. Brian eventually followed Graeme and has worked as a sound designer for a number hollywood soundtracks. Brian has ressurrected the Side Effects label and is continuing to record as Lustmord. there is a new disc titled "Lustmord Vs. Metal Beast" (with Shad Scott) which is due for release this coming week. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:52:27 -0800 (PST) From: SUGAR in their vitamins? Subject: Re: lustmord On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Dave Trenkel wrote: > I've only heard one of his works, a collaboration with Robert Rich called > "Stalker", which is an amazing disc of glacially slow moving ambient > electronic drones, inspired by the even more amazing Tarkovsky film of the i second this recommendation. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 02:33:34 -0500 From: Glenn Ianaro Subject: Re: lustmord SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote: > > I've only heard one of his works, a collaboration with Robert Rich > called > > "Stalker", which is an amazing disc of glacially slow moving ambient > > > electronic drones, inspired by the even more amazing Tarkovsky film > of the > > i second this recommendation. Thanks for all the info on Lustmord, I can't wait to go and look for those other cd's. Speaking of Rich, I have his cd Propagagation, which I think is another exellent work. GLENN > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 03:32:32 -0500 From: Chris from Zeke's Subject: RE: Opening acts Howdy! What about Reprise (Frank Sinatra)? A&M (Herb Alpert)? Ryko (what's the = name of the guy from DNA?)? I'm certain there are more out there (as far = as I can tell, if you can't cut it as a musician, you start a record = label). How do you define "support" and how do you define "wide range"? Chris - ---------- From: ia zha nah er vesen[SMTP:jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 1997 4.45 > Noon To: Herb Levy Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com Subject: Re: Opening acts >=20 > Compared to most other composer/performers who've started labels that > present work by other musicians, no one comes close to supporting as = wide a > range of work. [agreement] - -jascha - - - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #160 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. 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