From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Monday, November 17, 1997 11:15 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #164 Zorn List Digest Monday, November 17 1997 Volume 02 : Number 164 In this issue: - [none] Re: Otomo Yoshihide? Bay Area Gig Announcement from Scott Amendola Re: Ascension or Descension? RE: Japan Overseas Re: Otomo Yoshihide? no painkiller Re: Ascension or Descension? Re: Japan Overseas Re: In Need of NEW music. Re: In Need of NEW music. Hemphill Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* Re: some crazy-arse Jewish violin music... Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:24:38 +1100 (EST) From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua Subject: [none] Hi, don't know how far off the topic i am to the current thread, but has anyone heard of chris chandler? he had a cd out on 'flying fish' a couple of years ago; kinda folky stuff. among the people he thanked in the liner notes he included naked city. is this the same nc? also does anyone know anything about ascension or descension? any recommendations as to their recorded output would be much appreciated. thanks, aaron. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:33:46 +1100 (EST) From: James Douglas Knox Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide? On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, Jason J. Tar wrote: > Was just recently introduced to Otomo Yoshihide's work (mainly his Ground > Zero recordings), and was wondering what other releases by him people may > suggest (as it seems as though he has many, many recordings available)? There's an excellent web-site at Http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/yotomo/yotomo.html I am some kind of fan of Otomo's work - an extraordinary musician, and like Zorn and Morricone, as adept at film scoring as he is at improvisation. His work includes some of the best syntheses of Japanoise racous-ness and free jazz spontaneity; some of it very whimsical and funny to boot - a real joy! For me, a new recording by Otomo is always a moment of nervous anticipation - he's one of the few contemporary musicians who *really* excites me with their work. My personal preferences would be for: Dj Carhouse/Mc Hellshit: Live(!) his duo with Eye on Blast first - I think its out of print, but Verge still have copies. there was a wonderful 7-inch of this same duo with an issue of Resonance (4/2?), but that's also sold out - don't hesitate to buy it if you ever see a copy! Ground Zero: self-titled One of my favourite discs, really fucking fantastic; further appeal leant by the presence of John Zorn on occassional alto parts. Plus: one of my favourite *songs* of all time (track 12, I think it is) Second Ground Zero disc, "Null and Void" (Tzadik), is also a great thing, tho' incorporating less free improv than the first. But v rocking, to be sure; and some choice solo noise pieces by Otomo. I was less well satisfied with the last couple of GZ discs, but still haven't heard "Plays Standards" (apparently a killer) I dunno; most of his stuff is pretty great. I have a tape here of his duo with Steve Beresford - maybe the most exciting new music I've heard this year. That'll be coming out on Hot Air, the label of Stock, Hausen and Walkman - I think. And beyond any reasonable expectation, most of his earliest recordings are still available. The wise and kindly Jan-Wen Lu might be able to clue you up more (or has perhaps already done so). Cheers, Jim - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 02:59:33 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Benton Subject: Bay Area Gig Announcement from Scott Amendola The following is the 1st in a (very limited) series of show announcements I'm doing as a favor for drum guy extradinaire Scott Amendola. Some of you might now Scott's name from his work with Charlie Hunter, TJ Kirk, The Oranj Symphonette, and a pretty ridiculous quantity of other bands and wild'n'crazy improv units. - --------------------- Friday, November 21 - Hotel Utah - 4th and Bryant in SF - 9 PM The Miya Masaoko Quartet - Miya (koto), Trevor Dunn (bass), Scott Amendola (drums), and DJ Mariko (turntables). For those who might not know, the koto is a very old Japanese dulcimer-like instrument which Ms. Masaoko has been doing interesting things on for quite a while now. I haven't heard this ensemble and I frankly can't begin to imagine what they might sound like. I'm told it's really something. they will be sharing the stage that evening with... The Will Bernard Quartet - Will (guitars), Rob Burger (organ, accordion), John Shifflet (bass), and Scott Amendola (drums). Will is yet another one of those TJ Kirk wackos, and this band keeps up in kind. In my opinion, the sound of this band has as much to do with Rob Burger as it does with Will, but Rob's great so it's all good. In listening to their record I'm reminded of Zony Mash, the Meters, and I'll dare say there's some melancholy Astor Piazolla wandering around in there. Ok, all of these references are getting of a little bit out of hand. I'll just say that it's simultaneously swingin', funky, and out and leave it at that. I'm not sure who's on 1st, though I'll venture to say that it's either Miya or Will. Har har. It's way too late for me to be in front of a keyboard. So check out the gig if you can, it promises to be a winner. Thanks for listening, any words from folks who end up checking out the show would be much appreciated... - -Tom - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 04:33:56 -0500 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Ascension or Descension? Aaron Chee-Kean Chua wrote: >also does anyone know anything about ascension or descension? any >recommendations as to their recorded output would be much appreciated. Sure, check out anything you can find as, IMO, it's all great noisy improv. Early Ascension, found on the o/p "White Trash Motherfuckers" comp. on Shock was Irving (drums) and Hedges (guitar). Following this, Stefan Jaworzyn (owner of the Shock label) replaced Hedges and brought the duo to a larger audience. This lineup has released several 7"s (all o/p), a couple LPs (on Dirter and Fusetron - should still be around), and 2 CDs (a single & a double), both on Shock, both still available. Jaworzyn has also released a solo 7" and 10", and has collaborated with Alan Wilkinson for a CD on Incus. Descension consists of Ascension plus Simon Fell on double bass and Charles Wharf on alto & soprano sax & bass clarinet, and if you can't stand Ascension alone, I wouldn't recommend Descension ... ;-) They have one album, a lengthy disc on Shock from 1995. I provided most of the A/D info to the following site, and it should have all of the above titles listed in the Skullflower & associated discog. pages ... http://www.eden.com/~moonunit/skull/skull.html Check it out. - -Patrick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 04:33:30 -0500 From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: RE: Japan Overseas Dwight Haden wrote: >Japan Overseas quoted me a price on a Painkiller disc, took my money, >then, after 6 weeks, told me it was unavailable. I don't recommend >that you deal with them, at least for items not in their normal catalog. >They still have my money, BTW. Hmmm ... that's strange. I've dealt with them numerous times, and I receive items faster than I do from most mail order outlets Stateside with no hassle. Don't know why Shoei would rip you off? I assume you've tried to get your money back? >I've done some web searching recently and have found the following >Painkiller discs listed at various European/USA mailorder services: And why are any of these mail order outlets better than JO? Any of them could rip you off just as easily? There's always a risk of losing money or being ripped off when one engages in a mail order transaction. No outlet would be able to stay in business if they continually ripped off customers. Unless there are multiple complaints regarding Japan Overseas, then I would say they are just as good as any other, even though your personal experience with them was bad. I'm sure there are people who've been ripped off by many of the places you dug up info for on the web. - -Patrick - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:26:38 -0500 From: "Andy Marks" Subject: Re: Otomo Yoshihide? I picked up the soundtrack for "Hu Du Men" a few months ago. It's really beautiful, kind of traditional Chinese sounding music, with dialogue snippets from the movie. Very different than typical Otomo, but very good none the less. I also just recently got the his "Sound Factory CD 1997 - Memory Disorder" release. The first track is very Merzbow-ish, while the second is more of a dynamic cutup type of thing. Also, the second track makes pretty extensive use of Mike Patton's "Adult Themes for Voice" on Tzadik. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 06:55:06 -0700 From: louie Subject: no painkiller > I'd be willing to pay a fortune from one of those mail order places > that specializes in CDs from Japan. > I've had a bitch of a time trying to find the Painkiller stuff Zorn's > done. Anybody know where I can mail-order, write, or otherwise? > Wouldn't it be simpler (and cheaper) to wait a bit until they're all > reissued on Tzadik? At least the 3-CD version of Execution Ground is > scheduled for Jan. '98, for the others I'm still waiting patiently > Your best bet for copies of any of the Toy's Factory Painkiller > CDs would be Japan Overseas, although I'm almost positive that > "Guts ..." is o/p, and that both "Buried Secrets" & Rituals: ..." > will soon be, if not already. You can probably still get the > 3CD version of "Execution Ground" though just a quick note about finding any painkiller. a good friend of mine was in japan recently for a few weeks. his mission (whether he chose to accept it or not) was to locate, purchase and protect with his life the "unobtainable" cd's from painkiller: guts of a virgin, buried secrets and rituals. he failed. he was told everywhere he went that except for guts of a virgin they are out of print. and yes they could special order goav, but it could take weeks and very expensive. so as one zornothologist mentioned in a past digest, i guess we must be patient for tzadik to re-release them (grumble). (by the way, i think i was drunk satuday night) - -louie - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 06:56:01 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: Ascension or Descension? >Descension consists of Ascension plus Simon Fell on double >bass and Charles Wharf on alto & soprano sax & bass clarinet, >and if you can't stand Ascension alone, I wouldn't recommend >Descension ... ;-) They have one album, a lengthy disc on >Shock from 1995. >-Patrick If you love Ascension alone, this is ESSENTIAL. s/Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:12:04 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Japan Overseas On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 07:29:23 +0000 Dwight Haden wrote: > > >Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:04:47 -0500 > >From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) > >Subject: Re: Painkiller? > > > > wrote, regarding all of this PK hubbub ... > > > >>I'd be willing to pay a fortune from "one of those mail order places that > >>specializes in CDs from Japan." How about a name of one that has Rituals: > >>>Live in Japan or Guts of a Virgin? I finally found Burried secrets at a > >> > >Your best bet for copies of any of the Toy's Factory Painkiller > >CDs would be Japan Overseas, although I'm almost positive that > >"Guts ..." is o/p, and that both "Buried Secrets" & Rituals: ..." > >will soon be, if not already. You can probably still get the > >3CD version of "Execution Ground" though ... Check with Shoei > >to see what she can still get ... > > Japan Overseas quoted me a price on a Painkiller disc, took my money, > then, after 6 weeks, told me it was unavailable. I don't recommend > that you deal with them, at least for items not in their normal catalog. > They still have my money, BTW. > > I've done some web searching recently and have found the following > Painkiller discs listed at various European/USA mailorder services: > > Guts of a Virgin - Earache or Toys Factory (Diff. covers) > Buried Secrets - Earache or Toys Factory (Diff. color covers) > Rituals - Toys Factory > Execution Ground 2CD - Subharmonic > Execution Ground 2CD - Limited Ed. Metal Box ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oups! The only one that I don't have. Where is it listed? I have never seen the Metal Box version. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:16:18 -0500 (EST) From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music. MONSTER BOX!!! Yes yes, brilliant!!! Worth it alone for the live album with the Two Pale Boys. Perhaps David Thomas's best ever solo album (and the others are pretty great too!). - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:22:41 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Re: In Need of NEW music. >MONSTER BOX!!! Yes yes, brilliant!!! Worth it alone for the live album with >the Two Pale Boys. Perhaps David Thomas's best ever solo album (and the >others are pretty great too!). As I was plunking down the cash I was thinking what a waste of money since I had all the material (except for the live PBoys) on vinyl or CD or both and $35 is a bit pricey for one CD. What a delightful surprise to hear the re-mixed versions of familiar material, especially the virtually new renditions of the entire SOUND OF SAND. Coltrane at The VV 61 and Monster are an odd pair of dueling Boxes on my personal airwaves right now. sZ > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:32:51 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Hemphill On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, David Slusser wrote: > j. ross wrote: > > Anway I was wondering if anyone has any comments on the > >relationship of blues to avant-gard, and if they could recommend > >anyone in this area to check out..... > > I recommend Julius Hemphil's "The Hard Blues" just about anything hemphill recorded is steeped in the (texas) blues. the cd reissue of his mid-70's album "reflections" (original title: "coon bidness") is an excellent example as well. also check out hamiet bluiett. b - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:36:15 -0500 (EST) From: Brent Burton Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) *ARE YOU KIDDING* On Sat, 15 Nov 1997, James Douglas Knox wrote: > Isn't part of the problem with Wynton that he held a conservative > stranglehold over the programming of music at the Lincoln Centre for many > years? yes, and he said he would never invite braxton to play because "he doesn't swing." b - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 12:33:32 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: some crazy-arse Jewish violin music... James Douglas Knox wrote: > Dunno hardly anything about this stuff myself, but I heard something on > the radio recently by a guy called (hope i got this right) Erwin > Schulthoff. A german guy, he apparently hung with the Dadaists in Paris > (the only other composer I know to spend any substantial amount of time in > their company was Varese), was a communist, found his premature end in a > concentration camp. In short: he was *good people* The correct spelling is Schulhoff. I don't know the specific solo violin piece you heard, but I find most of the music I've heard by him to be immensely satisfying, in a sort of early 20th century Janacek/Prokofiev kind of vein. Most of his dadaist output has not been recorded, but there are competing "complete" cycles of his work in progress on Koch Schwann and Supraphon. Schulhoff would have been a fairly major figure on a worldwide scale had he not perished in the Holocaust, I'm convinced. His Piano Concerti are both very fine and quite similar to Prokofiev's, with a French bent and a jazzy influence. The string sextet is quite magical and is available in at least four recordings. The string quartets are also quite wonderful, if decidedly conservative by Zornlist standards, and the later symphonies predict and predate the later symphonies of Shostakovich... in fact, I heard from one critic that when the Soviet forces liberated the camp in which Schulhoff perished, Shostakovich requested and received the score of at least one of the symphonies. At least two of the dada pieces have been recorded by Supraphon. One of these, the "Sonata Erotica," consists of cocktail jazz piano noodling behind a woman simulating a wild orgasm. Another, on the same disc but I forget the name (maybe "Sinfonia Germannica"), sounds a whole lot like Thomas Buckner backed by Anthony Braxton on piano, singing "Deutshcland Uber Alles." Schulhoff's notorious early magnum opus, a jazzy cantata setting of the Communist Manifesto, has been recorded by Supraphon and may even be available again by now. Again, we're not talking Ligeti or Kagel for pre-Zorn weirdness for the most part, just a mighty satisfying and mostly forgotten composer who would undoubtedly have amounted to much, much more. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:32:55 -0600 From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: The big deal with _Naked City_ On Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:36:23 -0500 (EST) Christopher Hamilton writes: > >This is another topic, but I actually think _Zohar_ is quite moving. Zohar has to be one of my favorite albums. For me, the only thing wrong with it is that there's not more of it. I find it very atmospheric and moving. I'm surprised to find myself saying that about a project involving EYE. Any opinions on whether it would have been a better idea to have made the record surface noise continuous throughout, instead of broken up at each track>? - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:16:35 -0500 From: ôô Subject: Re: Zorn's influences (Wynton content) JRZ wrote: > To tell the truth I agreed with Wynton in the 80's. All of the modern jazz > I was being exposed to was fusak crap. I didn't really care for his stuff > but at least it was listenable. > > Most of the interesting Jazz made today is just not accesible to the > average music fan. People aren't going to make the jump from "No Doubt" to > today's avant garde improv type music. They need to jump back a few decades > and work their way forward, if Wynton points them back to the old guard > greats then his existence is justified in full. It's not like you can catch > the Miles Davis Quintet at the Vanguard. Wynton's poularity is more a reflection of record company politics than anything else. Wynton was more or less anointed by CBS. Had anyone ever even heard of him before his first major label release? CBS put huge amounts of money into recording and promoting him, Did they do this because people were clamoring for Wynton Marsalis's music? Or was it that they saw the potential income from a well dressed, erudite, non-threatening black man playing conservative music in a conservative era. Yes, he is a decent trumpet player, but in comparison to Don Cherry, Mongezi Feza, or even newcomers like Dave Douglas, I just dont think he deserves the accolades that have been handed to him. There is an old story about how, after recording Skies Of America, Ornette went to the record company, with the expectation that they would finance a tour, with an orchestra, and he was practically laughed out of the room. Yet a minor talent like Marsalis, is given a curators chair at Lincoln Center.....Go figure. With his dismissive attitude toward anything that doesn't meet his definition of Jazz, I think the only place Wynton is likely to lead anyone is to Brooks Brothers or Armani. In fact I would venture to say that a JZ or a Tim Berne, despite their obscurity, are more likely to lead potential listeners to the good stuff. End of Rant. - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #164 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. 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