From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 11:54 AM To: zorn-list-digest@xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #168 Zorn List Digest Wednesday, November 19 1997 Volume 02 : Number 168 In this issue: - Re: Milo Fine Re: Another question Re: Frank Lowe's The Flam ocean of sound Re: Angel Song Re: Borbetomagus ... Re: Another question Thanks Pat/rick/rice Re: Borbetomagus ... Masada? Re: "I'M GONNA MAKE YOU SUFFER!"--John Zorn at LA Concert yada yada yada : 5 points Happy Apple in MPLS 11-19 Boodlers and Pigpen on Tim/Kerr just released! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:04:08 -0400 From: "goodadam@quicklink.com" Subject: Re: Milo Fine Nathan M Earixson wrote: > > Ah ha! A personal favorite of mine. He's put out some very interesting > records. I've heard 4-5 of the "Milo Fine Free-Jazz ensemble" albums, > but most people I know haven't really heard of him. I guess he reminds > (to some extent) of some of the Henry Cow albums I've heard. > Incidentally, He's a local artist to me, and as mucisians that are "out > there" aren't given a lot of support up here, I don't hear a lot about > him. I'd be interested in anyone else's opinions... > > I saw a trio of his at the west bank school of music. this was seven years ago and definately my first exposure to free-improv. and boy did i fucking hate it, excuse the language--that's how i felt at the time. but this was in a prior life when i only listened to Wes Montgomery and John Coltrane if that sort of explains anything. now when i think back to the gig i remember what a deep deep impression it left on me for years to come. I'd LOVE more than anything in the world to here those guys again. can't remember the names of the other musicians--a guy playing tenor and an electric guitarist with really quirky technique. who are these guys? any chance that they're playing a gig on thanskgiving? Adam good - -- \/ ~@-@~ ~ ----- |_____| /\ /\ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:35:38 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Another question At 6:29 AM 11/19/97, peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: >Probably last year, somebody (or somebodies) mentioned a book/disc package from >Virgin Records that detailed the history of Ambient music and included early >ambient pioneers like John Cage, Brian Eno, Tnagerine Dream, Kraftwerk and the >like, along with newer stuff. Does this ring any bells? Can anyone refresh my >memory? I think that would be David Toop's "Oceans of Sound". I don't have the book handy, so I can't give publisher and ISBN #, but it can be found at amazon.com. It's the best book on music I've read in years. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:35:47 GMT0BST From: DR S WILKIE Subject: Re: Frank Lowe's The Flam Yeah, it's good, but for my money Exotic Heartbreak is better (1981 with Butch Morris) and Decision In Paradise (1988 with Geri Allen Grachan Moncur and Don Cherry) tops them all. If you want Texas tenor, try Charles Brackeen - I only know Attainment and Worshippers Come Nigh (both on Silkheart) but they are awesome. His themes are like awesome heavy rock riffs but sound like they're the best thing to give sense to what follows ... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 12:45:36 -0500 From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: ocean of sound >Probably last year, somebody (or somebodies) mentioned a book/disc > package from Virgin Records that detailed the history of Ambient music > and included early ambient pioneers like John Cage, Brian Eno, > Tnagerine Dream, Kraftwerk and the like, along with newer stuff. > Does this ring any bells? I bet you're referring to "Ocean of Sound". There's a book by David Toop (Serpent's Tail) and a double CD set (Virgin import). Both are great. The CDs cover a huge range of ambient from Debussy to Cage to Miles Davis to Peter Brotzmann (!) to howler monkeys and sea lions to Zorn/Toop to Eno to Buddhist monks to My Bloody Valentine. No T.Dream or Kraftwerk, though. Toop has gone on to release 3 other double CD thematic sets, one devoted to "crooning", one to guitars and one to funk, but I haven't heard them yet. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:48:16 -0700 From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: Angel Song >Anyone have this CD? I just got it today and I've got to say it's really >brilliant. Four excellent jazz musicians (Kenny Wheeler, Lee Konitz, Dave >Holland and Bill Frisell) playing some of the most expressive music I've >heard in a while. If anyone's got any opinions, I'd like to hear them. > Julian > Yea, awesome record. I got this the day it came out. (Love Kenny, got almost everything he's ever put out) I was fully prepared for it not to live up to my expectations. It seems that often, when I get a disk with such a stellar lineup, I expect too much, but I must say _Angel Song_ blew me away. Who knew that Lee Konitz could play so well in such an ethreal context? Kenny does some of the best playing and writing I've heard since _Flutter By, Butterfly_ (on Soul Note) and _Music for Large and Small Ensemble_ (on ECM). It is as if every note he plays is carefuly contemplated, hand crafted, and delivered to the listener, yet Kenny never looses the ability to suprise, delight, and play with an amazing sense of spontinaity and energy. It's obvious that words fail me whenever I try to talk about music on the level of Kenny's. Holland is flawless, providing only what is musically relevant, and nothing more. Remindes me a bit of his plaing on _Conference of the Birds_, though I'm not sure what aspect. (Perhaps all aspects: the over-arching brilliance of his conceptial approach to the bass is staggering) As for Bill. Where to start. . . Bill sounds, on this record, as close to Bill live as is probably possible. Having seen Frisell quite a few times in close, intimate settings, (as well as some larger settings) I must say that when I listen to this disk, I can picture his facial expressions, his movements, the whole nine yards. It remindes me that, as good as Frisell has always been, he is still getting better! I caught his quartet about a month or so ago, and having been witness to his first ever gig with Ron Miles (3 years ago), I was blown away by how much growth Bill and the group have undergone. It was simply telepathic, and that's the essence of what was captured on _Angel Song_, IMHO. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:19:53 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Borbetomagus ... At 9:47 AM 11/19/97, Nathan M Earixson wrote: >On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:31:09 -0500 pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) >writes: >>matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) wrote >> Mr Milo Fine himself on piano, clarinet, drums & whistle. > > >Ah ha! A personal favorite of mine. He's put out some very interesting >records. I've heard 4-5 of the "Milo Fine Free-Jazz ensemble" albums, >but most people I know haven't really heard of him. I guess he reminds >(to some extent) of some of the Henry Cow albums I've heard. Given what Fine, as a record reviewer for Cadence, has had to say about Frith over the years (very negative, and not particualarly pleasant), I'm sure he'd REALLY appreciate that comparison. :-) ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:25:56 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Another question On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:35:38 -0800 Dave Trenkel wrote: > > At 6:29 AM 11/19/97, peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > >Probably last year, somebody (or somebodies) mentioned a book/disc package from > >Virgin Records that detailed the history of Ambient music and included early > >ambient pioneers like John Cage, Brian Eno, Tnagerine Dream, Kraftwerk and the > >like, along with newer stuff. Does this ring any bells? Can anyone refresh my > >memory? > > I think that would be David Toop's "Oceans of Sound". I don't have the book > handy, so I can't give publisher and ISBN #, but it can be found at > amazon.com. It's the best book on music I've read in years. If these is(are) the one(s), here we go: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - OCEAN OF SOUND: various artists Sampler companion to the book by David Toop which features tracks by King Tubby, Herbie Hancock, Aphex Twin, Jon Hassell, Ujang Suryana, Claude Debussy, Les Baxter, My Bloody Valentine, Brian Eno, The Vancouver Soundscape, Peter Brotzmann octet, Harold Budd, Miles Davis, Terry Riley, Detty Kurnia, Ornette Coleman, John Zorn/David Toop, Paul Schutze, The Velvet Underground, Holger Czukay & Rolf Dammers, Beach Boys, African Headcharge, Sun Ra, Music Improvisation Company, Deep Listening Band, John Cage, Erik Satie, and atmospheric field recordings. 1995 - Virgin (UK), ambt10 (2xCD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - CROONING ON VENUS - OCEAN OF SOUND 2: various artists This record features Robert Wyatt, Sly And The Family Stone, Laurel MacDonald, Milton Nascimento, Earthling, Royal Trux, Arthur Russell, Chet Baker, Stina Nordenstam, John Lee Hooker, Tim Buckley, Yanomami Young Men, Tenko/Ikue Mori, Yma Sumac, Scott Walker, Captain Beefheart, Lilacs, Julee Cruise, Martyn Bates and Mick Harris, Coldcut, Nico, Massive Attack, Tom Jobim, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Beach Boys, Haruomi Hosono, Mary Margaret O'Hara, Dr John, Primal Scream, David Sylvian, John Martyn, Sheila Chandra, The Future Sound Of London. 1996 - Virgin (UK), AMBT13 7243 8 41718 2.7 (2xCD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:35:10 -0800 From: "Schwitterz" Subject: Thanks Pat/rick/rice Thanks much to the 2 Pats, -rick and -rice, for the great Borbetomagus (sp?) and Toop info. Makes this list all the more worthwhile. s~Z - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:48:56 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Borbetomagus ... On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:19:53 -0800 Dave Trenkel wrote: > > At 9:47 AM 11/19/97, Nathan M Earixson wrote: > >On Wed, 19 Nov 1997 05:31:09 -0500 pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) > >writes: > >>matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) wrote > >> Mr Milo Fine himself on piano, clarinet, drums & whistle. > > > > > >Ah ha! A personal favorite of mine. He's put out some very interesting > >records. I've heard 4-5 of the "Milo Fine Free-Jazz ensemble" albums, > >but most people I know haven't really heard of him. I guess he reminds > >(to some extent) of some of the Henry Cow albums I've heard. > > Given what Fine, as a record reviewer for Cadence, has had to say about > Frith over the years (very negative, and not particualarly pleasant), I'm > sure he'd REALLY appreciate that comparison. :-) Yes, that comments also surprised me :-). For me, Milo looks like somebody who discovered free improv a long time ago and did not realize that the clock has turned... Very often he is judging records from a free improv point of view, as if records were only made to fulfill this aesthetic. It is kind of funny... like reading about an economist who keeps on looking at the world with Marx's CAPITAL as unique reference :-). I like also the way he feels to have to look savant to sell his point. I would like sometimes to tell him: "Hey Milo, this is not a free improv record, pass it to somebody else." Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:28:08 -0600 From: JRZ Subject: Masada? I'm looking to buy some more Masada discs. I only have six at the moment. Can anyone clue me in to how the others compare, contrast or stand out from each other? I only have numbers to aid in mu decision at the moment. If someone could point me towards reviews of the Masada releases that would be helpful too. I better hurry cause they seem to be getting harder and harder to find. thanks in advance, zube my tapelist http://www.winternet.com\~zube\tapelist.htm Nyquist was wrong. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:39:02 -0500 From: rob ludington Subject: Re: "I'M GONNA MAKE YOU SUFFER!"--John Zorn at LA Concert >....the world is full of xenophobic idiots who can't tollerate anything = that is >outside of their confort zone. Sadly, it is apparent that this = statement holds >true for Zornsters as well as Wyntonites. I would expect more from a = bunch >of people who are as open minded as we suppose ourselves to be. Yeah, it's true that there are gonna be closed minded people in any = sort of group or subculture, but it seems, at least in the (limited) = light I have seen Zorn that this definitly isn't the case with him.... = if there's someone out there who's experienced otherwise then please = inform me. This seems especially true after I checked the Zorn top-ten = at the Tzadik sight. I think the best musicians are the ones who can = find value in any work..... it's giving someone alot of credit, albiet = bad credit, that they can make 'bad' music. Music is composed of notes = & other sounds which are basically noises within themselves, it's just = that we've been trained from birth that only certain combinations are = 'harmony'. Sure I belive that you can develop likes & dislikes on your = own, but if you look at different regions of the world what is = considered beatifull music is pretty varied. Maybe the listener can't = relate with what the artist is trying to convey. =20 >"Don't ever piss of a pacifist" Who is this qoute by? I like it alot, myself being a pacifist..... - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:05:45 -0500 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: yada yada yada : 5 points I think I need a digest version for all of the zorn listserv messages in digest format I am getting lately. So much music. So much to say : 1. Next Zorn collaboration will be with Wynton (improvised covers of WC Handy) .. if only - then this discussion thread could go on...and on... 2. The "Angel Song" cd is wonderful and also seems to be part of a new ECM series with discreet / moody coverwork. 3. Recently picked up a reissued Jim Hall disc and the new Joey Baron CD ("Back Home" I think?) and who but Ron Carter, bassist extrodinaire, should appear on both discs (recorded over 20 years apart!) 4. Anyone recommend some Elesyia(n?) Fields CDs? New Yorker magazine calls them "erotic jazz" (I know, huh???) - they open up the Serge Gainesborough compilation and have a great sound! 5. I've been on a treasure hunt for Michael Nyman recordings lately and also just recently purchased the new Gavin Bryars "Man in a Room, Gambling." Mentioning Zorn ...et al on the Nyman listserv gets minimal reaction (sorry- couldn't help that one.) How do all ya Zorn-o-philes like Nyman, Bryars and such? Just curious. 6. Phew !!! Tis all for now ;* ) Bob Somerville, MA - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:16:54 -0600 From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Happy Apple in MPLS 11-19 For those of us anywhere near Minneapolis: Happy Apple will be playing at the Bryant-Lake Bowl Tonight at approx 10pm. Considering the what I've heard about these guys from friends, and the fact that at least two sources have mentioned that John Zorn is interested in what these guys are doing, I thought this might be relevant. ******************************************************** "'Higgeldy-Piggeldy' means 'A real mess'." M. Binkley ******************************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:53:03 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Boodlers and Pigpen on Tim/Kerr just released! To let you know that the following two records have just been released (November 18th was, I believe, the official release date). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - DAYLIGHT: Pigpen 1/ Daylight (Horvitz) 2/ V As In Victim (Horvitz) 3/ Oh Blue Angels, You Are But A God To Me (Horvitz) 4/ Don't Explode On Me (Horvitz) 5/ Trouble (Horvitz) 6/ Arrive (Krauss) 7/ Mr. Rogers (Horvitz) 8/ Tap (Horvitz) 9/ Mel (Chalenor) 10/ Duet (Horvitz) 11/ The Gift (Horvitz) 12/ Trio (Horvitz) Produced by Wayne Horvitz Wayne Horvitz: piano, organ, electronics; Briggan Krauss: alto; Fred Chalenor: bass; Mike Stone: drums, percussion. 1997 - Tim/Kerr Records (USA), T/K 154-2 (CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** - COUNTER FIT: Boodlers 1/ Serf's Up (Boodlers) 9:16 2/ Feudal Is (Boodlers) 7:48 3/ Dubble Or Nuthin (Boodlers) 7:39 4/ Bloodbank (Boodlers) 10:08 5/ Loose Change (Boodlers) 5:45 6/ Doughnation (Boodlers) 12:04 7/ Buckgutted (Boodlers) 7:06 8/ Crime Pays (Boodlers) 1:30 Recorded at Musicraft, Wilsonville (Oregon) Produced by Elliott Sharp Elliott Sharp: doubleneck guitarbass, tenor; Fred Chalenor: bass; Henry Franzoni: drums; Joseph Trump: drums. 1997 - Tim/Kerr Records (USA), T/K 110-2 (CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #168 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. 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