From: Zorn List Digest Sent: Saturday, December 20, 1997 8:03 AM To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #195 Zorn List Digest Saturday, December 20 1997 Volume 02 : Number 195 In this issue: - Re: Last Exit Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #194 Re: Last Exit Re: Tim Berne Jim Black Re: Last Exit Re: Jim Black Serge Re: Serge Re: Serge Re: Jim Black laswell or elliott sharp recs? Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:31:44 +0000 From: Jeff Schwartz Subject: Re: Last Exit I agree with Steve Smith's Last Exit picks, but wanted to add my own comments. To me, the self-titled album and Koln are more anarchic than Cassette Recordings and Noise of Trouble. Noise of Trouble has solo pieces from each of the players and a jam with Herbie Hancock. Akiri Sakata plays reeds on some of the tracks too. This makes it their most varied sounding album. Headfirst into the Flames is (I think) from some time later than the other live albums and has a different feel-more conversational, less aggro, though still plenty of violence. As for Iron Path, it's not nearly as improvised as the rest of them, but it sounds huge and I like the tunes. Brotzmann (and I think Sharrock) have dissed it in interviews. Steve's describtion of it as a Laswell solo album is pretty close. From what I've read from Brotzmann about it, it sounds like Laswell may have done a lot of it by sampling chunks of the other cats' playing and organizing them to fit song forms he made up later. Brotzmann told Jon Corbett (who's not a Laswell fan): "I don't like, for example, that last record we did, Iron Bars [sic] on Virgin. It's bullshit. But, I didn't have any kind of control on that. It was that kind of studio production that I hate. You show up in the night, play a couple of ups and downs, and somebody's mixing after that." (from Corbett's book Extended Play, p. 248-9) - -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:51:51 -0700 (MST) From: david m gutierrez Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #194 Does anyone out there know anything about the work of Joseph Schillinger, and what, if any, influence he may have had on JZ or any of the other musicians discussed on this list? I believe his major writings are "Kaleidophone" and "The Mathematical Basis of the Arts." - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:32:06 -0500 (EST) From: Broken Subject: Re: Last Exit On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Rich Williams wrote: > BTW, I'm about half done with my Sharrock Tribute website. Most of the > graphics are up, and I'm now scanning in some interview material.I've > still got a lot of text and other stuff(soundfiles etc.) to put up, but > for a preview, go to: http://pages.cthome.net/richwilliams/ > > - speaking of which.... I put up my own Sharrock website back in the ancient days of 1995. Unfortunately, I haven't had the time (or material) to really expand the thing. I guess it looks kind of lame by today's standards but I think that it's pretty detailed info wise. anyways please check it out at http://vger.rutgers.edu/~hmshih/Sharrock/ thanks, Howie - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:53:58 EST From: IOUaLive1 Subject: Re: Tim Berne I went to the show again tonight, it was even better than Wednesdays! How can this lineup sound bad? And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE. He's got to be the best unknown drummer there is. If someone else hasnt already mentioned, a highlight of the evening was "Screwgun", though every moment was pretty captivating. If you catch any of the sets, bring some extra money because Tim has some new Bloodcount cd's, and I assume Sunday he will have the new Paraphrase cd. Jody - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:26:22 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Shepherd Subject: Jim Black On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, IOUaLive1 wrote: > And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE. He's got to be the > best unknown drummer there is. I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed guy who looked like he was 14. If you closed your eyes, you could see him like bending the drumset in different directions. But maybe that was the Alert-tabs. Maybe I don't get out enough, but I had never seen anyone use the top of the high hat on the snare like he did. hmmph! - Mike "It's only romantic 'cause it never works." - Harriet the Spy ********************************* Mike Shepherd rein0065@frank.mtsu.edu Middle Tennessee State University (615) 898-3652 ********************************* - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:08:05 -0800 From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Last Exit At 7:31 AM 12/18/97, Jeff Schwartz wrote: >I agree with Steve Smith's Last Exit picks, but wanted to >add my own comments. >To me, the self-titled album and Koln are more anarchic >than Cassette Recordings and Noise of Trouble. I don't have too much to add to this thread, except to say that the self-titled Last Exit album is one of my all-time favorite records. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:10:58 -0600 (CST) From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw Subject: Re: Jim Black On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Mike Shepherd wrote: > I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my > friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed > guy who looked like he was 14. Wow - he had a toe for a head? Interesting... Oh wait, you must mean he had blonde hair - tow-headed...OK, I get it. :-| I *have* heard that he is a fantastic drummer tho - right up there with Joey Baron. Which release would be the best to hear Mr. Black on? cya brian (who has seen people write "toe-headed" enough times to get grouchy about it) - --------------------------------------------------------- "The most dementing of all modern sins: that of mistaking success for excellence." - David Hare, playwright - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500 From: Bob Kowalski Subject: Serge My introduction to Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover of "Ford Mustang." After hearing on the radio I soon after bought the "Intoxicated Man" CD and have had it in heavy rotation since. I find the Tzadik compilation excellent - if "a bit" more ecletic (side note - does Mike Patton have similar styles on other recordings?) Harvey just released "Pink Elephants" which is his 2nd batch of Serge's tunes - I need to listen more but get feeling that its (way) off the mark. Both releases are rearrangements in English, but at least I felt the first attempt was a great one. So...I am interested in what others out in Zorn land feel, if anything, about the Harvey discs (or, as w/ Patton above, any stellar recommendations for artists contributing to the Tzadik compilation ... other than Frith, Ribot, MMW & Horowitz ... all of whom I like.) Bob - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0600 From: jihad7@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: Serge On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500 Bob Kowalski writes: >My introduction to Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover Is that Mick Harvey of The Birthday Party? just curious - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:30:09 -0800 From: "Patrice L. Roussel" Subject: Re: Serge On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0600 Nathan M Earixson wrote: > > > On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500 Bob Kowalski > writes: > >My introduction to Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover > > Is that Mick Harvey of The Birthday Party? just curious That's him. Patrice. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:50:30 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Jim Black Mike Shepherd wrote: > On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, IOUaLive1 wrote: > > > And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE. He's got to be the > > best unknown drummer there is. > > I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my > friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed > guy who looked like he was 14. If you closed your eyes, you could see him > like bending the drumset in different directions. But maybe that was the > Alert-tabs. Maybe I don't get out enough, but I had never seen anyone use > the top of the high hat on the snare like he did. hmmph! My favorite of his new tricks is bowing the top of the hi-hat while holding it against the rims of his toms. He did this once on Wednesday night (ending with a dramatic crash aginst the left tom) and once on Thursday (during the evil noise section of "Screwgun," while Formanek played arco mania, Tim alternated between dog whistles and Borbeto-dirge on his baritone, and Chris puffed on his tenor sans mouthpiece - watta racket!). Like Jody said, the Thursday night sets were over the top. Everyone was on fine form, with particular high marks for Formanek, who was all over the place (and during one solo chastised some folks whispering at the other end of the room... "I'd rather you just talked, I can't fucking stand whispering..." without missing a note). And then there's Jim... He was a grinning maniac all night, most especially on "Screwgun." Those who've heard this tune (it's on "Saturation Point") know that it begins with a pretty straight slamming funk figure on bari, tenor, bass and drums, and after a little while the drum part frees itself from the band and goes into counter-rhythms. Folks, I don't know who hid the kid's Ritalin, but Jim was a madman, splaying lightspeed Squarepusher breakbeats left and right across the kit, then moshing with a fierceness and style I previously only associated with Animal (the muppet, not the Motorhead drummer). He had the audience and the band in stitches and Tim was having trouble keeping his mouthpiece in his mouth... Elsewhere I noticed Jim solved the problem of having only four limbs with which to create racket by shaking a string of bells clinched between his teeth. The pace of the Thursday night sets was terrific, opening with a sensitive "Bloodcount" into a woozily spinning "Sense and Sensimilla," then the afore-mentioned "Screwgun" and an over-the-top "Is That a Gap?" Second set opened with a down-and-dirty "Bro'ball." Then came the best "The Other" I've ever heard, in which the middle section, where it's just Chris playing microtonal clarinet smears around Tim's alto lines, was somehow creating the weirdest dizzying sympathetic vibrations in my inner ear...I've never felt anything quite like this, and I noticed Mike imitating fingernails on a chalkboard on the side of his bass. The set ended with "Byram's World" with its weirdly twisted new opening. The crowd was 3-4 times larger than Wednesday night and the band really fed off the energy and the presence of many friends in the audience. I'm just sorry to report that once again there appeared to be no taping going on (I know Jody was left shaking his head at this too), so if there was anyone taping last night please get in touch with me... I'll find a way to make it worth your while. This was most definitely a night to remember and a "Screwgun" for the record books. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:54:41 -0500 From: Anish Kejariwal Subject: laswell or elliott sharp recs? Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp? There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to start. Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit. The only things I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis' "Sacrifist" (which is great!). The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his track on the Bacharach cd. Please, nothing too noisy... Anish - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:41:43 -0800 From: Brian Olewnick Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? Anish Kejariwal wrote: > > Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp? > There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to > start. Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit. The only things > I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis' > "Sacrifist" (which is great!). The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his > track on the Bacharach cd. > > Please, nothing too noisy... > > Anish > > - Hmmm, Sharp that's not too noisy.... Well, the fairly recent 'Terraplane' might fit the bill, an album of blues that's very good. But the best Sharp is noisy indeed, my personal favorite being 'Larynx' (1987, SST). In the last few years, I've slacked off on picking up much new Sharp, getting the impression that the new stuff wasn't especially different from previous Carbon, string quartet writing etc. Anyone care to recommend issues that would show me the error of my ways? Brian O. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:17:42 -0500 From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? At 11:54 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote: >Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp? >There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to >start. Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit. The only things >I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis' >"Sacrifist" (which is great!). The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his >track on the Bacharach cd. > >Please, nothing too noisy... What I like most about Laswell is the variety, so where to start depends on what kind of music you like. Laswell as organizer: His first 'band', and the one with which he made his fortune, is Material, a loose collective whose personnel has completely changed over the fifteen year period that they've been putting out records. I find the early 1980s Material kind of dated, but Seven Souls and Hallucination Engine are pretty good experimental rock/jazz/funk/worldbeat type albums. Seven Souls has a lot of William Burroughs reading. The Material album I play the most is The Third Power, but this is more rap/pop/reggae, with vocals, than the others. The live album is almost free jazz. Material also did a lot of disco/funk productions with Nona Hendryx et al. If you want to hear the Material that got him rich, look for the Herbie Hancock Rockit album, which was also produced by Material. Laswell as bass player: His early album Massacre, with Fred Frith on guitar and Fred Maher (I think) on drums, has been recently reissued, and I remember this as being phenomenal. This was the work that got me hooked on Laswell -- the opening track Legs has some of the best bass playing I've ever heard. I haven't listened to it lately, though, so I may be remembering through rose colored glasses. More recently, the new Arcana album, with Tony Williams (his last project), Pharaoh Sanders, Buckethead, etc., is also excellent, better IMHO than the first Arcana with Derek Bailey, although the two albums are really quite different. Painkiller owes as much to Zorn as to Laswell. If you don't like Painkiller, you probably won't like Last Exit, a very noisy quartet which has been covered fairly well on this list recently. Laswell as knob twiddler: This covers most of his work in the ambient genre. If you're a fax head, you'll want some or all of his Dark Side of the Moog, or Outland, or Psychonavigation series, or disks on the Subharmonic or Strata labels (bearing in mind that some of these have been reissued by money men with questionable scruples). I find this to be the least interesting Laswell work, it all sort of sounds alike after a while. The bass lines tend to be very similar in all of these works, and they owe as much to the collaborators as to himself. Laswell as jazz producer: Not to be overlooked in his massive output are the excellent albums which Laswell produced but on which he doesn't play. I'm thinking in particular of the excellent Henry Threadgill albums released on both Columbia and Axiom, some of which should be available at any major chain that has a jazz selection. I'm most impressed with the Very Very Circus albums, a lineup that has Threadgill on sax and flute, plus two guitars, two tubas, a french horn, and drums, plus lots of guests. The album 'makin a move' has a cello quartet and a guitar quartet + piano, and 'carry the day' has pipa, accordion, and vocals. All of them are wonderful, and I haven't heard any Laswell/Threadgill albums that I haven't liked a lot. Laswell also produced an excellent album by Pharaoh Sanders and some African percussionists that shouldn't be overlooked. Laswell has other roles he plays too. He has produced albums by musicians from all over the world (Master Musicians of Jajouka in Morocco, Liu Sola from China), and his solo disk Hear No Evil has a lot of south Asian influence. He lends his name and talent to many projects by other musicians, which you can read about on the Axiom web site at hyperreal. - -- Caleb T. Deupree cdeupree@interagp.com, or cdeupree@erinet.com ;; Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. ;; (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:58:43 -0800 From: Jeff Spirer Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs? Just a few minor comments and additions to Caleb's excellent posting. At 10:17 AM 12/20/97 -0500, Caleb Deupree wrote: >type albums. Seven Souls has a lot of William Burroughs reading. The _Seven Souls, which was re-released this year with three additional mixes will get yet another set of remixes in 1998. >Material album I play the most is The Third Power, but this is more >rap/pop/reggae, with vocals, than the others. _Third Power_ is an interesting recording - it is the only one released under the Material name that doesn't have Bill on bass. The reason is that this was recorded as a Sly & Robbie album, but some problems held up releasing it that way, so it came out as a Material album. I also play this a lot. >lot. Laswell also produced an excellent album by Pharaoh Sanders and some >African percussionists that shouldn't be overlooked. This has more than percussionists, it is a complete gnawa ensemble. Two recent releases featuring Graham Haynes (son of Roy Haynes) weren't mentioned and should be. One is _Tetragrammaton_, which has two long horn and ambient/d'n'b tracks, along with three other tracks, and the more recently released _Sacred System Two_, which is my favorite release from Bill this year. > He lends his name and talent to many projects by other >musicians, which you can read about on the Axiom web site at hyperreal. URL below. Jeff Spirer Axiom/Material http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V2 #195 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". 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