From: "Kumiko" Subject: [AML] More Christian Market Films Stats Date: 29 Oct 2002 21:23:47 -0600 Well... applying "statistical analysis" to movies by combining aggregate grades and evaluations is probably a spurious thing to do. You don't need tables and averages to tell that "God's Army" is a better movie than "Omega Code." But if you're interested in what results when hundreds of reviews from reviewers nationwide are tabulated, read on... Comparing Latter-day Saint Christian market films to non-LDS Christian market films. "Brigham City" is the most critically-acclaimed Christian market feature film. "Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie", "God's Army", "The Singles Ward" and "Jack Weyland's Charly" round out the country's Top 5 Christian films list. Latter-day Saints, who comprise only about 2% of the U.S. population, may be surprised to learn that although the number of non-LDS Christians in the U.S. far exceeds their numbers, there has not been a comparatively larger number of non-LDS Christian market feature films during the last 10 years. In the Christian genre section at BoxOfficeMojo.com, only 13 theatrically screened non-LDS Christian market films are listed, going back to 1990. Also listed in that section are 5 of the 7 LDS-themed feature films released since 2000, beginning with "God's Army." These movies are also listed at http://www.adherents.com/movies/christian_box.html It's possible there's a theatrically-released Christian market film missing from this list, but I've done fairly extensive research on the topic and I'm not aware of any. RottenTomatoes.com has listings with lists of reviews and RottenTomatoes.com scores (percentage positive versus negative) for all of the non-LDS Christian market films except for "Road" and "China Cry," and for all of the LDS Christian market films except for "Handcart" and "Out of Step." It is a fairly straightforward matter to compare the accumulated critical responses to the two sets of feature films. I compiled two sets of scores for the movies: The RottenTomatoes.com score, which is the number of positive reviews out of the total counted. This is fairly selective. The website only scores reviews with a clear preference, and only from reviewers it holds to certain standards. The other score is the average grade given by reviewers on a letter grade or star scale (standardized to a 1-to-100 scale). The reviews included in this average were for the most part only those listed on the RottenTomatoes.com website. But when graded reviews from other sources (including Salt Lake Weekly, Ogden Standard Examiner) were included when known. I also combined the two scores. In every list (RottenTomatoes percent positive, average review grade, and combined score), "Brigham City" is ranked as the #1 most critically acclaimed Christian market film by reviewers nationwide. "Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie" was ranked #2 on the RottenTomatoes.com score list and on the combined list, but was #5 on the average grade list. Based on the average grade from 17 different reviews, "The Singles Ward" was #2 on the average grade list. With a small number of reviews, "Out of Step" was actually the 3rd highest ranked movie on the average grade list, but it was not on the other lists because there was no RottenTomatoes.com listing for it (even though half of the reviews tabulated in its average are from regular RottenTomotes.com review sources). RottenTomatoes.com score (% positive): Average for 11 non-LDS Christian movies: 19.2% Average for 5 LDS-themed movies: 49.4 % Average numerical/star grade from reviews: Average for 11 non-LDS Christian movies: 41.8 Average for 7 LDS-themed movies: 60.6 COMBINED score (RT.c +/- with average grade): Average for 11 non-LDS Christian movies: 30.5 Average for 5 LDS-themed movies: 55.6 Full data sets can be found at http://www.adherents.com/movies/christian_rev.html and http://www.ldsfilm.com/lds_rev.html Regarding potential bias. The RottenTomatoes.com scores are based on reviewers by reviews from across the country. The scores are based on the same restricted set of reviewers for all movies. For some (but not all) LDS-themed feature films, the reviews are predominantly based in Utah, but come from secular sources. It appears that at least half of the time, the local reviews of LDS-themed feature films exhibit lower average grades or higher percentage negative reviews than the non-Utah reviews for those same movies. The possibility of local favoritism towards LDS-themed feature films seems outweighed by the stated Evangelical/Protestant Christian leaning by a number of review sources included in the RottenTomatoes.com scores, including: Christian Spotlight on the Movies; Movie Parables; Crosswalk.com Movies; eBeliever.com. There is one LDS-owned newspaper included among RottenTomatoes.com sources: The Deseret News. There are no LDS websites among RottenTomatoes.com review sources. Unlike local Utah reviewers which did not appear to yield grades or positive/negative scores significantly different from national averages, many of these explicitly Christian (non-LDS) sources consistenly appeared as outliers, that is, their grades were notably higher than grades from other sources. Nevertheless, none of these sources seemed to "rubber-stamp" Christian market films. The grades and reviews they gave varied between different films, even if they did consistently give higher grades to Christian market films that most sources panned. Note that using this same methodology, "Brigham City" is only ranked #12 on the list of recent feature films directed by Latter-day Saint/Mormon directors. This means that while "Brigham City" received high marks, there were many movies that were NOT Christian market films, but which were directed by Latter-day Saints, which critics liked better. These include: In the Company of Men, The Secret of NIMH, The Beaver Trilogy, Alan and Naomi, Anastasia and Cremaster 3. - Preston Hunter NUMERICAL AVERAGE OF GRADED SCORES FROM REVIEWS: # OF REVIEWS AVG. FILM TITLE DIRECTOR AVERAGED GRADE ---------- -------- -------- ----- Brigham City Richard Dutcher 39 71.1 The Singles Ward Kurt Hale 17 63.8 Out of Step Ryan Little 6 63.7 God's Army Richard Dutcher 26 61.9 Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie Nawrocki/Vischer 57 61.1 Mercy Streets Jon Gunn 10 57.9 Jack Weyland's Charly Adam Thomas Anderegg 8 57.8 The Other Side of Heaven Mitch Davis 56 54.2 Revelation Andre Van Heerden 2 52.0 Road to Redemption Robert Vernon 4 51.8 Handcart Kels Goodman 7 51.4 Extreme Days Eric Hannah 14 48.3 Joshua Jon Purdy 28 44.6 Left Behind Victor Sarin 42 42.6 Megiddo: Omega Code 2 Brian Trenchard-Smith 16 37.7 Carman: The Champion Lee Stanley 8 35.5 Omega Code Robert Marcarelli 28 27.9 The Judas Project James H. Barden 2 0.0 ROTTENTOMATOES.COM RATINGS Film Title Director Pos Neg % Positive ---------- -------- --- --- ----- Brigham City Richard Dutcher 16 5 76.2 Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie Nawrocki/Vischer 35 16 68.6 God's Army Richard Dutcher 5 4 55.6 The Singles Ward Kurt Hale 4 4 50.0 Jack Weyland's Charly Adam Thomas Anderegg 2 3 40.0 Carman: The Champion Lee Stanley 3 6 33.3 Mercy Streets Jon Gunn 2 4 33.3 The Other Side of Heaven Mitch Davis 9 27 25.0 Joshua Jon Purdy 4 16 20.0 Left Behind Victor Sarin 6 32 15.8 Megiddo: Omega Code 2 Brian Trenchard-Smith 2 11 15.4 Extreme Days Eric Hannah 1 6 14.3 Omega Code Robert Marcarelli 2 18 10.0 Road to Redemption Robert Vernon 0 1 0.0 The Judas Project James H. Barden 0 1 0.0 Revelation Andre Van Heerden 0 1 0.0 COMBINED RT.c AND NUMERICAL AVERAGE SCORES Avg. Title Director Grade RT.c Combined ----- -------- ----- ---- -------- Brigham City Richard Dutcher 71.1 76.2 73.7 Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie Nawrocki/Vischer 61.1 68.6 64.9 God's Army Richard Dutcher 61.9 55.6 58.8 The Singles Ward Kurt Hale 63.8 50.0 56.9 Jack Weyland's Charly Adam Thomas Anderegg 57.8 40.0 48.9 Mercy Streets Jon Gunn 57.9 33.3 45.6 The Other Side of Heaven Mitch Davis 54.2 25.0 39.6 Carman: The Champion Lee Stanley 35.5 33.3 34.4 Joshua Jon Purdy 44.6 20.0 32.3 Extreme Days Eric Hannah 48.3 14.3 31.3 Left Behind Victor Sarin 42.6 15.8 29.2 Megiddo: Omega Code 2 Brian Trenchard-Smith 37.7 15.4 26.6 Revelation Andre Van Heerden 52.0 0.0 26.0 Road to Redemption Robert Vernon 51.8 0.0 25.9 Omega Code Robert Marcarelli 27.9 10.0 19.0 The Judas Project James H. Barden 0.0 0.0 0.0 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops Date: 29 Oct 2002 09:38:29 -0700 Jim Cobabe wrote: > In my personal conversation with men in this circumstance, I have observed > that bishops and their wives frequently seem to have serious problems of > this nature. In part the problems appear result from the emotional trauma > inflicted on bishops when they are exposed to the sometimes horrific > personal revelations of those who confide in them for counsel. Many of them > seem to have their protective shell of naivte ripped away in such > experiences. Not surprising that men of compassion would be troubled to > share such confidences. One of my former bishops described the experience > as like looking on the peaceful scene of a placid pond, then for the first > time being plunged beneath the surface to see the scum and pollution, the > lurking corruption and filth harbored there. And, of course, LDS society's response to such a revelation is generally to climb back out of the pond, wash and dry off, and continue to admire the placid surface, while implementing a healthy dose of double-think to pretend they never saw the depths. On the other hand, those poor naive bishops would never have had that shocking experience in the first place if we'd just talk about these things, or write about them in stories. Perhaps that murky slime beneath the surface wouldn't even exist if we opened up about it so we could do something about it. But I guess that's out of the question. You see, it's not "uplifting." Better to let the lives of many people fester under the surface, so those who think inspiration is a feel-good story that evokes a tear aren't bothered with the sordid details of reality. Sorry, feeling a bit cynical tonight. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Press Release: Gary Rogers' Book of Mormon Movie Date: 29 Oct 2002 09:49:48 -0700 > THE BOOK OF MORMON IS COMING TO THE SILVER SCREEN! > "The Book of Mormon Movie, Volume One!" > "Virtually every member of the Church I've > talked to has told me they have waited all their lives to see a movie about > the Book of Mormon! > Most of the > nearly 12 million members of the Church have already "seen" the movie many > times in their minds! > Tom Cruise playing Nephi or Jack > Nicholson playing Lehi just wouldn't work! They bring too much 'baggage' > with them, not to mention their enormous price tag! > The DVD > version will allow the viewer to see and hear the movie in Spanish with the > simple click of the remote! Also, at any point during the movie, the viewer > can click the remote and text will appear on the screen showing the exact > chapter and verse in the book that relates to what the viewer is watching on > screen! I have a rule of thumb that the quality of a product is in inverse proportion to the number of exclamation points used to describe it. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Chamberlain" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 30 Oct 2002 07:53:14 -0700 Whose going to play the evil people? Aren't they all fat and ugly? -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 30 Oct 2002 10:47:56 -0500 Fred C Pinnegar wrote: > So, now, remind me: when was the last time the Book of Mormon (as either a > literary or literal construct) was used as a course text at a state sponsored > school? While this doesn't exactly fit Fred's question, I'd like to mention that every year in the World Religions class at SUNY Delhi (that's the _State University_ of New York), I am invited to guest lecture on Mormons and Mormonism. Of course the same invitation is extended to a Roman Catholic Priest and a representative Protestant minister. I use my time to freely discuss the restoration, the BofM, the church, and my personal testimony. I once taught from a reader that included JS History, "The First Vision" as a representative sacred text alongside other examples. In the next year or so I'm due to teach a course on the Bible as literature (this is a popular class and we have to wait our turn). In graduate school one of my more acclaimed papers was on the BofM as a representative text of the American Renaissance. I've never caught any flak. If I wanted to propose a course in Book of Mormon, or Mormon Studies, the only questions my department or curriculum committee would ask would be--Can we fit this in to the school's mission statement? and Would students take it? I find it laughable that at church-sponsored schools the students are required to take their religion classes and at us pagan places students study religion because they choose to. When BYU and Bob Jones quit forcing students into religion classes, then is when I want to hear a discussion from their faculty about academic freedom. Tony Markham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JLTyner Subject: [AML] Jack Anderson Article Date: 30 Oct 2002 08:21:12 -0800 There is a good article on www.meridianmagazine.com honoring investigative journalist Jack Anderson's eightieth birthday by Mark Feldstein, a college professor who interned under Anderson and has written a biography about him highlighting how much his being a Latter-day Saint has influenced his sense of integrity and tenacious reporting . Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 30 Oct 2002 09:49:55 -0700 >So, now, remind me: when was the last time the Book of Mormon >(as either a literary or literal construct) was used as a >course text at a state sponsored school? Why should it be, unless there is some state course on Mormonism? I don't see that lack as evidence of a bias against religion in state schools but a school abiding by the Constitution's separation of church and state as presently interpreted. But when you can teach Will Bagley's book on the Mountain Meadow's Massacre at BYU, Utah State will teach a course in the Book of Mormon. > >As Eric S indicated, in contrast to other institutions, BYU is >a great place, and we can work on the problems. Agreed. No reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Press Release: Gary Rogers' Book of Mormon Movie Date: 30 Oct 2002 10:49:19 -0700 >"No celebrity actors will be used in filming the movie," stated Rogers. "I >think a celebrity would actually detract. Tom Cruise playing Nephi or Jack >Nicholson playing Lehi just wouldn't work! They bring too much 'baggage' >with them, not to mention their enormous price tag! The Book of Mormon is >the draw here, not the actors," say's Rogers. However, Rogers was quick to >emphasize that the actors must be able to act as well as any actor in the >world. Hey, Jack Nicholson wouldn't even be allowed to audition...remember they're looking for ATTRACTIVE actors. :-) Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Sept. 11 Tape Date: 30 Oct 2002 12:38:25 -0500 Susan Malmrose wrote: > I'm curious what the final song list was for this compilation? ...And can I > get a copy? :) One of the nice things about this thread was that there were so many great suggestions, far more than I could ever put onto a single 90-minute tape. That said, this tape will be a work-in-progress for the foreseeable future. As I tire of one version, I'll record another. I don't think it'll ever be a fixed text. Someday, maybe, I'll join the 21st century and start burning MP3 discs and put nine hours of music on a single disc. I also think others on the list may have been intrigued by the project enough to create their own tapes (or MP3s) and there will be even more "final" versions of this project than my own. That said, my current tape looks something like this: 0) Song Title, Artist who performs it side one 1) Never Will Give Up, Alison Kraus 2) I Guess the Lord Must Be in NYC, Harry Nilsson 3) All Along the Watchtower, Neil Young 4) Tower Song, Townes Van Zandt 5) Sweethearts, Camper Van Beethoven 6) Fire and Rain, James Taylor 7) Goodbye Blue Sky, Joni Mitchell 8) O Death, [from the Oh Brother, Where Art Thou sndtrk] 9) Roll With It, Ani DiFranco 10) Done Too Soon, Neil Diamond 11) Cold, Cold Ground, Tom Waits 12) Once There Was a Mountain, Donovan side two 1) Zombie, The Cranberries 2) Masters of War, Eddie Vedder and Mike McCready 3) Political Science, Randy Newman 4) It's All Right Ma (I'm Only Bleedin'), Bob Dylan 5) Wailing Wall, Todd Rundgren 6) Too Tired to Cry, Iris DeMett 7) Ruins, Cat Stevens 8) Hello Earth, Kate Bush 9) Talk About Your Troubles, Harry Nilsson 10) The Only Living Boy in NY, Simon and Garfunkle 11) Bridge Over Troubled Water, Mormon Tabernacle Choir 12) Mountain Jam, Allman Brothers -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dewey Remy Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 30 Oct 2002 14:40:45 -0800 Fred Pinnegar said: "I didn't say that BYU was open. My point was that the concept of academic freedom is an illusion. The state school serves the interests of the state, and the church school serves the interests of the church. There is also a big difference between teaching a concept as a theory and making a theory the keystone of your personal religion...My point was also that greater freedom exists at BYU to explore a variety of perspectives." I have always assumed that academic thought and speech were restricted at BYU. I am currently an undergraduate student who would like to pursue an academic career in religious studies. I prefer a historical-critical approach to the study of religion (applying the same principles to the study of all religions and reserving no privilege for one's own religion) and feel that this approach would be difficult to fully apply to LDS history and scripture at BYU (but not to the study of other faith traditions which don't overlap with our own). I think that the same would apply for most conservative religious universities, and certainly an overtly faith-promoting approach would be frowned upon in most secular universities. While I agree with Fred Pinnegar that academic freedom is not perfectly supported in any institution (for example, departments can be under the tyranny of a particular theoretical approach), it seems to me that the range of opinions that in general one could express in a public university environment would be greater. Must one be an active, temple-recommend wielding member to teach at BYU? Are there examples of non-LDS tenured professors at BYU? (I honestly don't know.) Also, are there differences for how tenure works at BYU and in public universities? I am assuming that the concept of tenure is to protect the professor's job while allowing them academic freedom. Can you be fired for publishing opinions/reasearch that the Church might leadership frown upon (or does losing a temple recommend result in the loss of a tenured position)? Can professors be fired from secular universities for similar ideological reasons? If you are threatened with loss of your job because of what you have expressed, what recourse do you have at BYU? In a public university? One additional note: I am a student at a state-run school, and the diversity of approaches is invigorating. While there is a strong secular emphasis, we were still required to read and discuss the entire New Testament in a course on early Christianity. The Historical Jesus class was taught last year by an ordained Catholic priest, and the East Asian department (which is chaired by a faithful Mormon) is hiring a Buddhist priest as its expert in Buddhist Studies. I was enrolled in another class that used the Qu'ran as a text. My Christianity professor is very intrigued by Mormonism and LDS history and is thinking of teaching a course on new religions--if so, he would assign excerpts from the Book of Mormon. I have discussed the possibility of doing a study of the Book of Mormon (examining it within the context of 19th century American intellectual and cultural history) with another professor and he has been encouraging so far (he pointed me to Richard Bushman's works). My religious studies experience has been rich, varied and rewarding at a secular school, and I wonder if I would be able to get a similar experience at a conservative religious institution. I'm not saying these things to be combative. Not everyone would appreciate the experience I have enjoyed here. I remain skeptical, however, that BYU would provide as open and as free an environment in the study of religion as a public university. Peace, John Remy UC Irvine -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 30 Oct 2002 16:16:16 -0800 Fred Pinnegar asked: > So, now, remind me: when was the last time the Book of Mormon (as either a > literary or literal construct) was used as a course text at a state sponsored > school? > I am helping a professor (devout Episcolpalian, BTW) at Irvine Valley College (a local community college) to choose passages from the Book of Mormon for her Humanities class that explores ancient journey narratives. Soon it will be assigned reading, along with the Odyssey, Gilgamesh, the Hopi migration legends, etc. So I can tell you that it does happen :) Jana Remy -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kumiko" Subject: [AML] Voice from the Dust: Book of Mormon Movie Date: 30 Oct 2002 18:32:38 -0600 The official website for the "Voice from the Dust" feature film series, a planned series of films based on the Book of Mormon, is online. The URL is: http://www.voicefromthedust.com/ The primary crew members involved, according to the website, are: Producer/Writer/Director Peter Johnson Producer Steven DeVore Producer Craig Peterson Producer=F1Production Manager Scott Swofford Writer Neil Newell Director of Photography Reed Smoot Film Editor David Broberg Production Executive Quinn Coleman Production Designer Richard Jamison Production Artist - Designer Joseph Brickey Production Accountant Michael Roberts Transportation Coordinator Kelly Padovich Historical Consultant S. Kent Brown Scott Swofford, Reed Smoot and David Broberg have been above-the-line filmmakers on at least half a dozen Academy Award-nominated films, only som= e of which are mentioned on the "Voice from the Dust" website. The production company is named "Timpanogos Partners I, LLC" (This is a different project than the Gary Rodgers project announced earlie= r this week.) The website states: Welcome to the website for the landmark motion picture A Voice from the Dust: Journey to the Promised Land! Filled with iconic characters whose dramatic lives are tempered with soul challenging events, The Book of Mormo= n is profound scripture that has never been made into a major epic motion picture. Now these stories, that many for decades have dreamed of thrilling to on the big screen, will soon be made. A Voice from the Dust is a series of epi= c motion pictures based on this sacred record =F3 a story that begins in ancien= t Jerusalem in 600 BC and ends in the wilderness of ancient America more than a thousand years later. The first episode, Journey to the Promised Land, chronicles the astounding journey that Lehi and his family made from Jerusalem to the Promised Land. Our young hero, Nephi, surmounts obstacle after overwhelming obstacle to obey his father and the command of God to "go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded..." with stunning faith rarely seen, for he "was led by the Spirit, not knowing beforehand the things which (he) should do." The Book of Mormon is an ancient record similar to the Bible and revered by the world's 11 million Mormons as holy scripture =F3 confirming the spiritual and historical record of the Old and New Testament. The producers of A Voice from the Dust, Timpanogos Partners I, LLC, are excited to have you join us at this website for continued updates about the movie -- the first time this chronicle of faith and sacrifice, as recorded by ancient prophets has been brought to the big screen. You are receiveing this message because you are subscribed to our list. Visit the following URL to unsubscribe: http://members.hostedscripts.com/mailinglist.cgi?user=3Dpdhunter ~!pdhunter*pdhunter@wtd.net!~ -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 31 Oct 2002 12:41:36 -0700 > Darvell wrote: "My point is, that to get something published, it HAS to be marketable. Sure, it can be written for myself and be the most powerful piece of literature TO ME, but if it doesn't sell and isn't marketable, it won't be published. That doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't good writing, just maybe not marketable. And that may be okay, unless I feel the need to get something publishable." This is a very interesting post. At the risk of beating a dead dog over the head another time, I'd still like to encourage Darvell. This conundrum about not being publishable on the Mormon market (or the national market, because it's Mormon) is something I have struggled with for 50 years. If we don't want to "fill those Burger King orders" yet stay true to ourselves, we are in a pinch. So I am finally in the middle of self-publishing everything just to get it out before I die. KEEP WORKING, Darvell. The frozen waste cannot last forever (we hope). There is definitely a gap between something really interesting to literary people and the Mormon market milieu in which we find ourselves (Whether we think we're writing to an order by the Mormon audience or not. After all, we ARE Mormon. We're not filling Burger King orders, we are cooking our own Mormon hamburgers and nobody wants them). How did I survive writing 15 complete novels that never saw the light of day? (Some are now SELF-PUBLISHED, but because they do not sell well, I will--at the publishers' request---not be doing more of the same literary excellence type of thing with this press--at least until I publish something that DOES sell to cover the cost of the stuff that doesn't.) JUST KEEP TRYING! When you have tried for fifty years (give or take a few--I wanted to be published at 21, so 43?). When you have tried for 43 years and STILL haven't "made it," you and I will be twins. ANYBODY out there who is sad to be so rejected time after time, take heed! Give yourself 43 years. You will always be hoping you will make it on THAT NEXT BOOK. (I'm coming out with a novel this year that got remaindered in 1984 [died]. I'm changing it into a Christmas book, THE LIGHT IN THE ROOM--half an "ordered burger" you might say, but I intended it to be really all my own.) We'll see what happens! Afer this many years of struggle, I'm not expecting much. I have MADE on the average about 2.5 cents per hour. (So I don't do it for money!) My rewards come in literary awards, and in reviews, (the super ones I'm getting now, and the super ones I got then such as the one from Jerry Johnston 18 years ago in the Des. News, who said this particular remaindered book, ". . .attempts to bridge the rift between popular and literary fiction, and does an excellent job of it"). Another possible solution is for you to come and talk to us at Cedar Fort, and we'll tell you what WILL SELL, (one of our writers wants to write novels, but writes nonfiction that sells) and get you working on something of that nature, if you would be willing to write "boring" stuff to launch a career. Maybe. (Even THAT is hard, as I have tried and also failed at that.) IF YOU'RE REALLY A WRITER NOTHING WILL STOP YOU FOR FIFTY YEARS! So join the CONUNDRUM club! (How can I still smile? I LOVE TO WRITE, SO I'M HAPPY JUST PUMPING AWAY!) I spent all this space writing this (beating this dead dog again) to continue to encourage people to KEEP TRYING! Especially you literary types! They can't bury us forever! There MUST be SOMEBODY out there who wants a MORMON Eudora Welty, or a JAMES JOYCE, etc. Marilyn Brown -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Lee Benson on _Charly_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:15:30 -0700 Melanie Dahlin wrote: Someone needed to set a foundation for Mormon literature. Without the pioneers, how can we expand, and better, the doctrine? That is why Freud is the father of psychology. Not necessarily because his ideas and style are accepted, but because he paved the dirt road. I believe Weyland, and others like him, have done the same. If you're looking for pioneers look to Don Marshall. Before him there was only Eliza R. Snow. What Don Marshall did was unique and courageous--not to mention exquisite quality. Weyland's books are exactly like the movie "Singles Ward." While Single Ward does have value it was not the pioneer. It was not the act of courage. Singles Ward came along when the trail was open and relatively safe. Richard Dutcher opened the way with God's Army. Don Marshall opened the way in Mormon literature with "Rummage Sale." Do not make this mistake again. (I'm really a funny guy if you know me. I'm always afraid my humor may not be accepted as humor.) By the way, I really admire Richard Dutcher work--very impressed and perhaps a little intimidated. Paris Anderson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:28:44 -0700 >Actually, the thing I notice about these casting calls seems >to be: NO SAG ACTORS WILL BE ACCEPTED! > >Why? Because they have to be paid more? Yes. I.e., this project is horribly underfunded and will probably stink to high heaven if it ever gets done in the first place. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 31 Oct 2002 14:31:08 -0600 >Actually, the thing I notice about these casting calls seems to be: >NO SAG ACTORS WILL BE ACCEPTED! > >Why? I could be wrong, but I seem to recall problems with the film legacy because of this--the actors were SAG members, so for some reason the church couldn't release the film on video? Can that be right? I think they had to either do non-union actors or work on changing some restrictions. Does anyone know any more about this? Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Chamberlain" Subject: RE: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:37:20 -0700 One of his assertions to prove the lack of gun ownership early America was the small number of official transfer certificates documenting the transfer of guns from father to son. He based his estimation of the number of gun owners partly on these certificates. Obviously colonials were about as interested in filling out a certificate to document their activities as right-wingers are today. Peter Chamberlain -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Chamberlain" Subject: [AML] Artists and Unions (was: Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call) Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:37:20 -0700 As a matter of principle I would try to do everything I could not to get (looking for the right word) chained, cornered, trapped, blackmailed into using union workers. You don't hire a union worker, you invite the union into the management team of your project. A union has enough power to conceivably exert creative control over any project it is involved in. Union agreements detail how much each craft makes, how many hours they can work, what they can do, how the owner can deal with (hiring/firing) union workers. You basically give up all of your autonomy related to your labor. Secondarily it costs about twice as much to use union labor as it does to use non-union. I have never worked with SAG but I have dealt with five different local unions, three national unions and two international unions in eight states and three countries and to differing degrees they all have the same characteristics. I would be interested in artists experiences with unions and being able to maintain artistic control, if there have been any situations. Peter Chamberlain -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Single Bishops/ Sealings Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:45:50 -0700 [MOD: I'm going ahead and sending this out, but can we move away from language like "bogus" and more toward language that, while expressing disagreement, does not suggest summary judgment?] > > "Can a Bishop who's never been divorced give good advice on divorce?" > > That's a bit bogus. Can a Savior who has never sinned >give good advice= on sin? Of course! And THAT's a bit bogus. Christ achieved a one-ness with humankind that no one, prophet or otherwise, has ever achieved. He learned what it is like to sin while literally taking upon himself the sins of all humanity. Bishop, never divorced, may study all about divorce, may talk to other dirvorced Saints, but he can never really know what it's like until and unless he goes through it. >I assume that >President Kimball was never involved in= the vast majority >sins he discusses in his book, The Miracle of= Forgiveness, >yet I believe he does an excellent job covering the subject= >matter. I don't want to be misunderstood, but *Spencer* Kimball (he was not prophet at the time) uses the scriptures and teachings of previous prophets to make his points (and some of his own personal experience). The Miracle of Forgiveness doesn't necessarily require any extra insight into sin just good research skills. >Isn=92t that what so many of you authors are trying >so hard to= capture? An accurate feeling for those things >that you have never fully= experienced?=20 We do our best, of course. >> Image how much more important is it that a priesthood >leader be= enlighten beyond his physical abilities when >helping someone who is= struggling to work out their our >salvation. Well, today, most Bishops pull a list of therapists out of their drawer and ask the questioning member to talk to the professonals, so I don't see where personal inspiration on the part of the Bishop comes into play. >Thank goodness the Savior= "descended below all >things, in that he comprehended all things, that he= might be >in all and through all things," (D&C 88: 6 ), that the Spirit >can= work upon the leaders of the church to give council >about things that they= may other wise, know very little about.=20 He, being all powerful, should be able to give the same advice to the honest seeking member that he would a leader. > In addition, all these questions about Sealing=92s are >really touching= on Holy ground. The President of the Church >takes the giving and the= cancellation of these blessing very >seriously. It=92s important to= remember that when a couple >is =93sealed=94 they have entered into a= covenant with God >and not with each other. So for an individual to request= >that the Sealing they took part in, by covenant, be canceled, >it removes= from them any entitlement to blessings associated >with the covenant. = Unless they have someone else lined up >to enter into the covenant with them= again, what they are >doing, in essence, is removing blessings from there= own lives.=20 Nothing Man can do can remove him from the love of God, and isn't that what really matters in the final analysis? Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:59:45 -0700 >I understand how to write poetry, fiction (short and long), >and have tried >straight drama (with no luck getting produced, yet, so I don't >know if my >two plays are any good, really); but the format of >screenwriting baffles >me. What are the basic differences between a screen script and >a dramatic >script (which I understand how to do)? What do all those puzzling >abbreviations mean? (I've learned a few: CU is close-up, INT >is interior, >EXT is exterior.) Forget about CU or anything like it. You should never use it. INT. means Interior. EXT. means exterior. Used in what's called a slug line. You describe a scene: INT. THOM'S MESSY OFFICE - DAY > How important are the physical descriptions, camera >angles, close-ups, long shots, music in the background, and >where is all >that supposed to go in relation to the dialogue? Is it my job >to come up >with all that, or the director's? Unless you are also directing the script, don't even waste your time suggesting these things. Purely the director's perogative. >When I've written drama, I use brief set and costume >descriptions, etc., >just enough to communicate my intent. I figure any director or >producer >will have their own vision and interpret those things for themselves, >therefore it's a waste of time for me to bother putting that >on paper, if >they're just going to change it anyway. (Things like, describing a >character as blond unless that means something to the story.) You are correct. It's a waste of time, unless you are also directing. >So, if I were writing a scene taking place in McDonald's, for >the screen, >how much description do I need to put in? >Just this? "INT: McDonald's. Lunchtime. Long lines. DEAN is >sitting at a >booth. JANE is still in line, annoyed. > JANE >Dean. Dean, come here. > DEAN >I'm holding the table. What's your problem?" > >--Might be an incredibly boring scene there, but is that >*what* you do? Is >that enough? Yes. >I think that's what Darvell wants to know. I do too. How do I >convert a >story, novel, or stage drama over to the screen? Boy, do you have a couple of hours. There is a certain structure to the screenplay entirely different from that of the short story, the novel, or even the teleplay. I've written in all genres and there are different rules. Things you can do in screenplays you'd never want to do in a novel, and vice versa. I'm turning my novel Moroni Smith: In the Land of Zarahemla_ into a screenplay and I've found I have to add a whole new beginning for the movie to make sense, but which is perfectly understandable in context in the novel. >Or take a new >idea and >write for the screen? IMO, the best films are those which were conceived of first as films. Most adaptations of novels don't cover the seems very well, and are often worse. The movie JAWS is an excellent example of exactly the opposite. The book stinks, but the movie finds the core story and plays it for all its worth. >I have at least two or three stories >bouncing around >my head that would be great movies. Movies *I'd* like to see, >anyway, and >I'm picky. And I think other people might like to watch 'em. >But I don't >have a clue how to set down what I see in my head in the right >format for a >film director to make sense of my vision. I have very little >understanding >of how a film actually *gets* made, from concept to finished >product. Not >to mention the artistry that goes into camera angles and drawing out >storyboards. Is that the writer's job? No. Story only. What does the text of >the script >need to provide? And what books are out there that describe >the filmmaking >process in lay terms? I don't remember the title off hand but search on Amazon.com for books on screenwriting, especially the one by David Trottier. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RichardDutcher@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 31 Oct 2002 16:10:43 EST In a message dated 10/31/02 12:51:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, adamszoo@sprintmail.com writes: << I think that's what Darvell wants to know. I do too. How do I convert a story, novel, or stage drama over to the screen? Or take a new idea and write for the screen? I have at least two or three stories bouncing around my head that would be great movies. Movies *I'd* like to see, anyway, and I'm picky. And I think other people might like to watch 'em. But I don't have a clue how to set down what I see in my head in the right format for a film director to make sense of my vision. I have very little understanding of how a film actually *gets* made, from concept to finished product. Not to mention the artistry that goes into camera angles and drawing out storyboards. Is that the writer's job? What does the text of the script need to provide? And what books are out there that describe the filmmaking process in lay terms? >> You can go to Amazon.com and check out all the screenplay-writing books available and choose one (or twelve) that appeal. A very helpful thing to do is to order copies of screenplays of movies that you have enjoyed. There are many bookstores in the Los Angeles area that sell copies of shooting scripts. These aren't the published versions. These are photocopies of the scripts that the director actually used while making the film. You can see what working screenwriters provide for their directors. One of these stores is BOOKWORLD in Hollywood. I don't have the number, but I'm sure it isn't hard to find. There are probably several internet sites that offer the same. Also, as Brent Rowley mentioned, there are several format programs available. The one I use is Movie Magic Screenwriter. Still, the format particulars are the least important of the screenwriter's work. If you aren't writing from the gut of your soul, you're wasting and prostituting your gift. Hopes that's helpful, and I hope my previous responce wasn't harsh. I'm getting cantankerous (and passionate) in my old age. Richard Dutcher -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience Date: 31 Oct 2002 14:26:04 -0800 D. Michael Martindale wrote: >So you'd better throw out Victor Hugo's _Les Miserables_. **** Of course not, great classic such as Les Miserables, simply expose existing injustices, and man's inhumanity to man, in hopes of wiping it out, or at least mitigating it. *** >There goes _Ben-Hur_. *** The same goes for Ben Hur *** > Goodbye Orwell's _1984_. *** Most of the things that Orwell pointed at as future possibilities have already become fulfilled prophecies, albeit a little late. The question is did Orwell expedite the process, or were we already irreversibly committed to this state of existence before he wrote 1984? *** > Science fiction has uncounted stories of dystopian >worlds, worlds we'd all hate to live in, which worlds >were created by authors who wanted us > to think hard about the consequences of trends they see >in society, and ask ourselves if we want to live in such >worlds, and what can we do to avoid it. "Cautionary >tales" they're called. Throw it all out. *** Of course not! We cannot take free agency away; however, when the technology for the exercise of diabolical plans of terrorism and mayhem already exist, why give the madmen or lurking dissidents of the world any help or encouragement in making their sordid dreams become reality? Tom Clancy's - The Sum of All Fears - was (C) in 1991, a full 10 years before 911 and two years before the first attack on WTC. All the technology to carry out some of the ideas Tom put forth were a reality, at the time. My question is, did Tom provide the terrorists with the idea, or is it just one of those unexplainable coincidences? Did the governments of the world come up with the ideas to rewrite history promoting their own versions of the story, or did Orwell give them the idea? The same goes for our modern surveillance systems in place almost everywhere. We are being watched almost constantly while we are out in public. This last is probably a good thing to a certain extent, but it bothers me to think that I can't use a public restroom without wondering if I'm being watched by some sicko pervert. Now that the news casters of the world have given us all graphic demonstrations of - 1. How to make and deliver Molotov cocktails (right after the Watts riots). 2. How to make deliver and detonate a fertilizer bomb capable of leveling a large building (right after the Okalahoma disaster). 3. How to convert a human being into a suicide bomber (Within the past two months). AND 4. How to convert an ordinary town car into a sniper vehicle (This past week). Also I must not forget that recently, in our local media-fest, the fact that all the public water supplies in our area were vulnerable to biological contamination by terrorists, was announced to the general public, by a concerned journalist. The only thing that was left out was the exact locations and the schedule for whatever security surveillance exists. -In light of the above, I'm sure we can all rest a little more peacefully at night. I never implied in my post that we shouldn't write about the ugly truths that infest our society. It is our duty to try and expose injustice and cruel acts against humanity. I just meant to interject a word of caution and responsibility to the creative minds on the list. I still feel we need to avoid writing ideas that could lead to the further erosion of our modern society, by giving the sickos of the world, a helping hand in using our existing technology in mischief making. Regards, Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "BJ Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 31 Oct 2002 13:46:11 -0800 Linda Adams wrote: > > I think that's what Darvell wants to know. I do too. How do I convert > a story, novel, or stage drama over to the screen? Or take a new idea > and write for the screen? ... What does the text of the script need to > provide? And what books are out there that describe the filmmaking > process in lay terms? > > That's what I want to know. As I mentioned before, it's a good idea to have the right software, such as Movie Magic Screenwriter, which helps immensely to get the formatting right, and the abbreviations, and dialogue, etc. Another good idea is to read and study other scripts. See how other professional screenwriters have done it. You can download free, readable scripts by going to www.screenplay.com. Click on Downloads, then click on Downloadable Scripts. Last I checked there were about 50 movie scripts in there, including the likes of "Sixth Sense," "Pretty Woman," "Matrix," and "Lethal Weapon," etc. -BJ Rowley -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Get-together Nov. 1 Date: 31 Oct 2002 16:11:01 -0600 [MOD: Apologies that this didn't go out sooner. Crashing computer, and the like...] Okay--looks like the votes I have (including mine) are for Sizzler, and I can probably get there around 6-6:30 p.m. The address again is: 9000 S State in Sandy I don't think there will be too many of us. Feel free to stop by and say hello even if you're not eating! I'm looking forward to meeting you face to face! Thanks! Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 15:43:52 -0700 Okay, I've read the Emory report and I've read all the material available = at the website cited in this post. I've gotten interested in this = controversy because I've read Bellesiles' book, and find it most interestin= g. A few comments: 1) The Emory report strikes me as a model of fair minded and academically = responsible peer review. Bellesiles' response to the Emory report quite = correctly points out that the Emory committee found fault with only the = tiniest corner of his research. But that's not relevant. He is, at the = very least, guilty of shoddy note-taking, and of misrepresenting his data. = It doesn't matter that the errors only occur in three paragraphs. The = scholarly standard is and must be higher than that. No one represents = that higher standard more than Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. =20 2) The response of any scholar to the Emory report must absolutely be = independent of that scholar's own personal political views on the subject. = I applaud the Emory committee for their objectivity in this regard. 3) Bellesiles' book has now effectively been discredited in academic = circles. That doesn't mean he's wrong, that doesn't mean his arguments = aren't valid, and that doesn't invalidate the literally thousands of = pieces of untainted evidence that bolster those arguments. What this = means (and this is all that it means) is no reputable scholar is going to = be able to cite Bellesiles as a source, probably ever, not until another = scholar replows the same ground. Which, I predict, will happen, and that = right soon. 4) As usual, those outside the academy with a passionate interest in the = issues Bellesiles raises have overreacted in the most deplorable way, = unnecessarily politicizing and grotesquely oversimplifying a reasonably = complex issue of academic integrity. (You can really see that in the = comments links on that website) It's difficult to imagine a more = emotionally charged series of issues than those raised by the Second = Amendment. Bellesiles chose to jump right smack in the middle of that = debate. Shame on him for not documenting his work more thoroughly. He's = still right, of course. The fact that his work is academically discredited= does not render it invalid, or false. But still, shame on him. 5) Bellesiles is not a star. He's not famous, he's not a celebrity-scholar= . And he took on a very controversial issue. Of course his shoddy = scholarship was going to catch up to him. Too many people care too = fervently about this issue for him not to get caught. If he were a = celebrity, like Stephen Ambrose, he would still have been okay. Barbara = Tuchman (who I adore) literally peppered her work (esp. A Distant Mirror) = with factual errors. It didn't matter, because she was Barbara Tuchman. = Fame helps. Eric Samuelsen =20 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 19:25:37 -0700 ---Original Message From: R.W. Rasband > > Michael Bellesiles, professor of history at Emory University, > has resigned after having been accused of academic fraud. He > wrote "Arming America", a book which argued that there was no > widespread gun ownership in early America, contrary to > conventional wisdom. The book was widely acclaimed by > critics (and liberals) and won the prestigious Bancroft Prize > in history. However some scholars (and some bloggers) could > not confirm the existence of many sources Bellesiles cited. > An investigating committee appointed by Emory has recently > concluded there is a strong possibility the professor lied > about his sources. A member of the committee is Laurel > Thatcher Ulrich of Harvard University, the noted > Pulitzer-Prize winning LDS historian. The report cites a > possible bogus story of Bellesiles using records from "a > Mormon branch library." A summary of the report is at http://hnn.us/articles/1069.html It's a pretty damning report. The sources turn out to be non-existent and his records were less than worthless. Intelligent, independent people expended a huge amount of effort trying to reconstruct his research and couldn't do it--not for any lack on their part. It was an agendized book and it got rave reviews by all the usual suspects. Reviews that came back and bit them all when it turned out to have been a fraud. Which is interesting, actually, in both of the key aspects that made this book so popular. First, something that counters conventional wisdom so strongly deserves a bit of careful skepticism and deeper analysis to see *why* it counters conventional wisdom. In this case, it is found not to actually counter anything. Second, a lot of people praised it strongly because it coincided with their views and supported their cause or issue. By giving it awards and, in effect, backing the research, those organizations are paying a price now when it turns out that they were a part of perpetuating a fraud. It lessens the credibility of Emory (though their investigative efforts after it was made achingly obvious that something was foul help somewhat to counter that), and I don't think I'll ever give much credence to a Bancroft Prize. Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrea Lewis" Subject: [AML] The Role of the Reader Date: 31 Oct 2002 20:15:14 -0700 William Mulder has said that "the burden of creating a Mormon literature in the future rests as heavily on the reader as on the writer." As a student in Gideon Burton's LDS Literature class at BYU this semester, I have begun to more seriously consider my role as a reader of Mormon fiction, because it is indeed a serious role. Many members of the church with a casual interest in LDS literature disparage this genre and cannot see the diversity of fine literature that is developing because of the many Weyland-esque romance novels that line the shelves of Deseret Book. It is my opinion that these very readers are an essential ingredient to creating a high quality literature in our community because of their opinion of the status quo and their willingness to take risks in reading imaginative literature. One of the simplest manifestations of the reader's importance in creating fine literature is the market forces that surround publication and distribution. This is a concern Mulder expresses in his essay, and it was recently echoed by Richard Dutcher on this list. If the Mormon market is only willing to buy formulaic romances, formulaic romances will become the majority of published literature. Though artists throughout the ages wish it weren't so, much of the direction Mormon literature will take in the future comes down to where the dollar is spent. So if marketability and reader demand have such an effect on creating a Mormon literature, what is the responsibility of readers in the development of better literature? To answer this question, we must first examine the reason readers continue to buy the Weyland-esque novels. I think it comes down to what Crisler and Crowe hint at toward the end of their survey of Young Adult Literature: readers want safe, easy answers in the literature they support. A novel like _Charly_, which spells out and nearly preaches lessons in standard doctrine, faithfully preserves the status quo. It does not shock expectations of didactic entertainment as does Virginia Sorensen's _A Little Lower than the Angels_. Mormon readers do not want to be forced to ask questions while reading Mormon literature; they only want simplistic affirmation of doctrine through formulaic means. Productive ambiguity in exploring imperfect characters, which was the work of Shakespeare, Bronte and Faulkner among other great writers, is not welcome to a readership expecting safe and effortless stories. Doug Thayer's comment in his short story "Elder Thatcher" is that we must be more honest in the stories we tell ourselves. But if writers must be more honest, readers must be willing to risk the safety of the status quo so as to fearlessly face that honesty. The reader's responsibility in the creation of good literature, then, comes down to honesty. Readers must be honest about the ambiguity of striving for perfection in an imperfect world, for if they ignore this reality there is no hope in shaping the market forces that dictate the direction of our literature. Andrea Lewis -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] re: Sealings (comp 1) Date: 01 Nov 2002 17:00:35 -0600 [MOD: This is a compilation post.] >From OmahaMom@aol.com Tue Oct 29 06:40:46 2002 I have been given to understand that when there is a divorce, the sealings of children to parents--and those born in covenant, will be decided on judgement day. In some cases, the ex husband is truly a jerk and won't make it to the celestial kingdom. If mother is valiant and remains true to her covenants, the children will go with her and her new husband. They'll not be left out in never-never land somewhere. On the other hand, sometimes I think that there's a lot we truly don't understand about what it is going to take to make the celestial kingdom, and live up to the possibilities and potentials of those covenants. I've seen a lot of people with the attitude that "I've been married in the temple, so of course, I'm going to the celestial kingdom" and proceed to live any which way. I suspect that in the final analysis, there's going to be a lot of pruning in those eternal family trees. Fortunately, I don't have to be the judge of who gets to and who doesn't. And when the final story is told, I suspect that those who aren't pruned will be happy, and those that are won't be as happy as they might have been. Karen Tippets >From md85@email.byu.edu Tue Oct 29 11:23:46 2002 Granted, no woman wants to be the "second wife." Polygamy is not a practice I want reinstituted, by any means; however, I don't think we fully understand the social dynamics of the "ole pioneer days." Gideon Burton told my Mormon Literature class that a single, female could not financially fend for herself. A woman with a married title had more economic freedom. That is only one tidbit of information I did not fully realize. I am certain there are others factors. Melanie Dahlin >From margaret_young@byu.edu Tue Oct 29 15:13:57 2002 And to verify Hugh Stocks's experience, my father-in-law was divorced before he married my mother-in-law. One of the great days of his life was when his temple sealing to that first wife was cancelled--which happened BEFORE his second marriage. Margaret Young >From lajackson@juno.com Tue Oct 29 22:01:00 2002 Cathy Wilson: You know, of course, that when two previously temple-married and then civilly divorced people want to be sealed, the wife's former sealing is cancelled while the husband's remains intact and he is given a clearance for the subsequent sealing. Robert Slaven: Actually, I believe that policy has been changed. ... I didn't have to have my first sealing annulled. However, I recall hearing some time in the last decade that the policy had changed, and if I was marrying after a divorce now, I *would* have to get my first sealing annulled. I'm afraid I don't have a reference here; maybe Larry can crack open his CHI vol.1 and fill us in. _______________ Well, one should never turn down an invitation to crack open a book, especially among such distinguished folk. (So much for the literary tie-in.) What changed is that the application for sealing after a divorce became an equal opportunity event for both men and women. A woman is only sealed to one man. If she wishes to be sealed to another, the first sealing is cancelled. This is a lengthy process ultimately requiring personal approval of the Prophet. A man does not have to have his previous sealing cancelled, so in the past he was able to return to the temple with a few interviews and be sealed to a new spouse. The man's sealing is still not cancelled, but the man is now required to go through the same process of application, interviews, letters, and approval from the Prophet in order to be sealed in the temple again. This added application requirement for men is what changed. I am not aware that any reasons were given for the change, but I can think of many. The most obvious effect is that it levels the field for men and women to return to the temple. There may have also been a desire to make the process less simple for a man, with the hope that this might cause him to think more carefully about actions that have eternal consequences. Sadly, eternal thinking is often lost long before a person realizes his or her eternal future is in jeopardy. And if anyone on this list knows about Jeopardy, it would be the person who invited me to crack open the book. But that's an answer for another day. Back to you, Alex, er, Jonathan. Larry Jackson lajackson@juno.com >From annette@lyfe.com Wed Oct 30 15:38:26 2002 Shameless plug: My novel, Lost Without You, deals with this issue with a perspective I don't think has been done before in LDS literature. (I could be wrong--someone who has read more could correct me.) I've had a lot of positive responses so far, including my aunt (a second wife) who asked my mother how I knew what it felt like to marry a man already sealed to someone else. Annette Lyon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] re: Johnny Lingo (comp 1) Date: 01 Nov 2002 17:00:43 -0600 [MOD: This is a compilation post.] >From md85@email.byu.edu Tue Oct 29 10:50:17 2002 I recognize that physical attraction is a large factor as far as marriage and dating relationships are concerned. I used to think that "a guy" was mainly interested in a beautiful face that says what he want to hear. I felt like unattractive women were overlooked based on their lack of physical beauty. Now, I am beginning to see that people, and men, are not that black and white. I have seen very attractive girls dateless for months at a time, while their more unattractive counterparts date on a regular basis. I have asked myself, why is that? I feel that in many instances, "dating popularity" is based on self-confidence. Although, my definition of confidence refers to people that believe in themselves and their abilities while making others feel like they can do great things as well. It is a more quiet confidence. Regardless of my personal inclinations, it does appear to be quite true that people enjoy being around people that make them feel good about themselves. Melanie Dahlin >From md85@email.byu.edu Tue Oct 29 11:42:53 2002 To me, a female, Johnny Lingo is an inspiring story of a woman with very little self-worth that happens to find herself through the beliefs of a kind, loving man. I think Mahana's "journey of physical attractiveness" is a symbolic representation of the development of her character and self-confidence. In my opinion, to think otherwise is a misread of the filmmakers original intent. Melanie Dahlin >From alan@trilobyte.net Wed Oct 30 17:54:21 2002 I found some year-old notes about an idea for a sequel to of Johnny Lingo. I know several on the list have given their opinions regarding the search for true love in their relationship, but, here goes: The Sequel Johnny Lingo is never home and after the fifth son, Mahanna ages and becomes a doormat again and she just doesn't inspire Johnny to climb trees any more, if you know what I mean. So as is customary in the culture, Johnny plans to take a second younger wife, and he reasons that he will have to spend even more this time--probably nine cows and a galapagos turtle. But before he can deliver the cows, Mahanna takes her boys and rounds up the cattle and she eats eight of them in a massive barbeque. After he searches for the cows, he finds her lying there on the floor of the hut, fat and happy and grasping the last rib roast in her hand and a toothpick in her mouth." She looks at him with a feeling of satisfaction that she has finally taken control of the situation and done the right and good thing. Johnny looks back at her wallowing like a pig after a feast, and then, given the cultural bias toward women, he realizes ... that now she is bigger, she has never looked more beautiful. He takes a bite from her rib, falls deeply in love with her again, and they live happily ever after. Alan Mitchell >From ThomDuncan@prodigy.net Thu Oct 31 13:36:27 2002 Johnny Lingo is most assuredly NOT about loving a person for the way there are inside. It IS about how women need men to be complete. What should have happened (and does, in Eric's _The Way We're Wired_) is that Mahanna is just as ugly at the end of the film as she was at the beginning. As it is, while the movie is trying to say that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," it's really saying, "True love will make anyone phyisically beautiful." Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gabriele Kupitz" Subject: [AML] Annual Christmas Booktalk Date: 01 Nov 2002 14:34:35 -0700 Just a little announcement: =20 The BYU Harold B. Lee Library Farnsworth Juvenile Literature Library and the BYU Bookstore Children's Book Buyer (Janice Card) present The Annual Christmas Booktalk, Monday, 4 November 2002, 4:00 p.m. in the HBLL Auditorium. The event, free to the campus community and the general public, is held in conjunction with Children's Book Week 2002 and the BYU Bookstore sale on select Christmas titles. =20 For questions, etc. please call Gabi Kupitz 422-6735 =20 Have a great day! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Elizabeth Walters Subject: [AML] _Handcart_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 16:27:29 -0800 Handcart was an interesting attempt at recreating an historical Mormon=20= event: the trek across the plains by the Martin Handcart Company. I=20 suspect that their budget was very low and their shooting location was=20= limited. The beginning scenes in Iowa City where slightly unconvincing=20= given the fact that mountains could be in some of the shots and the=20 ground was dry and rocky. Sounds more like Utah rather than the very=20 green, very flat terrain of Iowa. Another sore spot for me, which I=92m=20= sure was a result of a low budget, came in the very end of the movie. =20= The main character, Sam, was reflecting on his experience in the=20 handcart company as an old man, perhaps 70 years old. The actor had=20 gray hair and a gray mustache, but he had fewer wrinkles than I do, and=20= I=92m 24 years old. The love story between Sam and Abby, wasn=92t bad, but Abby had = this=20 Mary Poppins accent that was slightly distracting. Granted, Abby=92s=20 character was from England, and maybe the actress who played her really=20= is British---I have no idea---but her accent was a little too much. I=20= actually liked the friendship/love story between Moose and Patricia. =20 Although Patricia=92s accent was a problem for me as well. She was from=20= New York, and she appeared to have come from some money by the way she=20= was dressed when she first came on screen, but her accent was way to=20 modern. Her accent wasn=92t refined enough for a rich easterner from = the=20 1850s. Aside from that though, her relationship with Moose seemed much=20= more genuine than Sam and Abby=92s. Sam=92s character, particularly, was difficult to follow. I = could=20 never understand his motivation for many of his actions. Like when he=20= told Abby he wanted to be baptized. Just minutes before he was telling=20= his uncle he would never join the Mormon church after what they did to=20= his parents, and then he=92s being baptized. I never knew what was = going=20 on in his head. Was he really converted, or did he just want to be with=20= Abby? Most of his motivation wasn=92t revealed until near the end of = the=20 movie when he tells Abby what happened to his family when his older=20 brother joined the church. Maybe this was the art of suspense on the=20 part of the director, but to me it was just confusing. Then there would=20= be characters who would show up just so that something tragic could=20 happen to them, like the mother who=92s son got lost. She came out of = no=20 where, and I=92m supposed to feel something for her? It=92s sad when = little=20 boys get lost, but I think it would have been more emotionally effective=20= to have kept the focused tragedies on the main characters. When Sarah=20= is missing, it seems silly and redundant since there=92s already been = one=20 lost kid. And even though Sarah is someone I know and like, the=20 situation isn=92t as serious as it could have been had Sarah been the = only=20 missing child. The movie had its moments though, and I thought it did show some = of=20 the heartache and pain the pioneers suffered. The ending might have=20 seemed out of place, as if the writers didn=92t know how to end the = movie,=20 but it made a good point. The handcart experience wasn=92t for nothing,=20= for it strengthened the spirit of many. And if some perished, they died=20= in God=92s favor. --- Elizabeth Walters -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lee Allred" Subject: re: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 20:46:27 -0700 >>However some scholars (and some bloggers) could not confirm >>the existence of many sources Bellesiles cited. ...Such as the records he used that were destroyed in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. :) An article that heavily quotes the findings of the Ulrich committee can be found at National Review Online. (http://www.nationalreview.com/seckora/seckora102802.asp) I'd be curious as to whether Ulrich's study of Mormon history played any part in her committee review work (particularly in light of Belliesiles' possible use of records from "a Mormon branch library"). Even a casual knowledge of early Mormon historical events would lend skepticism to Belliesiles' book: the Battle of Crooked River in Missouri (fought with firearms); the pistol given the Prophet in Carthage jail; and gunsmith Jonathan Browning (operated gun smith shops in Nauvoo and Odgen), called by Brigham Young to serve as basically a service missionary for a couple years or so in Winter Quarters manufacturing rifles for the companies of Saints headed to Zion. --Lee Allred leea@sff.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yeechang Lee Subject: Re: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 21:05:16 -0800 R.W. Rasband says: > Michael Bellesiles, professor of history at Emory University, has > resigned after having been accused of academic fraud. He wrote > "Arming America", a book which argued that there was no widespread > gun ownership in early America, contrary to conventional wisdom. [...] > A member of the committee is Laurel Thatcher Ulrich of Harvard > University, the noted Pulitzer-Prize winning LDS historian. As it happens, a small but crucial section of the committee's final public report discusses LDS genealogical libraries, materials available at them, and policies for their access. Dr. Bellesiles claimed so-and-so; as with many other aspects of his claims, the committee (and I daresay Sis. Ulrich brought an unusual level of insight here) found that it was not so. Yeechang, who saw a film version of _A Midwife's Tale: The Life of Martha Ballard_ during Richard Bushman's American Revolution class in college -- Deep Thoughts @ PERTH ----> * 8:56pm up 22:01, 9 users, load average: 6.79, 6.50, 5.74 183 processes: 165 sleeping, 7 running, 11 zombie, 0 stopped CPU states: 11.9% user, 5.3% system, 28.5% nice, 0.1% idle -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 31 Oct 2002 08:07:14 -0700 JLTyner wrote: > > Actually, the thing I notice about these casting calls seems to be: > NO SAG ACTORS WILL BE ACCEPTED! > > Why? Because they have to be paid more? And for all you folks > on the list who are big supporters of organized labor-What say you? That's the part of the call that I understood. When dealing with union cast or crew, you've got a myriad of restrictions and costs that are unnecessary. Unions provided a crucial service to workers in history, but for the most part, they've outlived their usefulness and have become a drain on society. There are exceptions (e.g., writers are still in desperate need of the power they have through a united front), but they are exceptions in our modern society. For big Hollywood studios who are dealing with zillion-dollar budgets, the union rules are fine--they make sure the money gets spread arouond better, and those studios can afford it. But for the small, independent producers, union rules inflate the cost of productions that can't afford cost inflation and provide no useful service in return. > I understand the need to save some bucks, but I'm curious-All > you folks that are involved in casting-be it for plays for or by > LDS people or in the emerging cinema end of Mormon Letters- > Is it standard practice not to cast SAG members, and if so, why? > Strictly financial? Or are there other components to such a policy? Well, I gave my reasons, and they are primarily economical. It would be my standard practice to avoid unions like the plag were I producing films right now. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 31 Oct 2002 08:23:48 -0700 Linda Adams wrote: > the format of screenwriting baffles > me. What are the basic differences between a screen script and a dramatic > script (which I understand how to do)? What do all those puzzling > abbreviations mean? (I've learned a few: CU is close-up, INT is interior, > EXT is exterior.) How important are the physical descriptions, camera > angles, close-ups, long shots, music in the background, and where is all > that supposed to go in relation to the dialogue? Is it my job to come up > with all that, or the director's? You're describing a shooting script. You don't write a shooting script the first time around. You write a "try-to-get-someone-to-buy-me" script. These scripts don't have any camera instructions and only enough other information to get the point across. You're right--the director WILL work out the details, and only be annoyed if you try to tell him his job. What your spec script should do it make the story as exciting as possible, just like you would with a novel. You write your scene descriptions to make them readable and evoke the images you want your potential buyer to see while reading. Then you just write dialog, with barebones instructions on how to say things or what to be doing while saying them (actors get just as annoyed if you tell them how to do their job). So Richard is mostly right: just write from your gut. There is a standard format to write in, but it's pretty simple for that first version of the script that you want to shop around. Learn it, then write from your gut. > --Might be an incredibly boring scene there, but is that *what* you do? Is > that enough? Or do I have to add: Trash on all the tables. Noisy. All but > one table is clean and empty. Two registers are empty. Employees standing > around doing nothing to move the line along. One employee obviously slow. > Yada yada ya. I'd think all that is included by just saying, "McDonald's. > Lunchtime." And the director can come up with those details that add to his > interpretation of my script. Do as much as you need to paint an intriguing picture, and no more. That description may actually be a good thing. When you write the script, your goal is to SELL, not to make the movie. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Lee Benson on _Charly_ Date: 31 Oct 2002 09:00:39 -0700 Melanie Dahlin wrote: > > Today, many psychologists see Freud's ideas as > "half-baked"; however, he set the foundation for others to build upon. That is > why Freud is the father of psychology. Not necessarily because his ideas and > style are accepted, but because he paved the dirt road. I believe Weyland, and > others like him, have done the same. Let's give them credit for their efforts. This is the same argument people give me for why I should love Microsoft and Windows. The computer industry needed standardization, and Windows did it. Yes, the computer industry needed standardization, but it could have standardized on anything--Windows was hardly necessary to accomplish that. There were much better products out there, but they weren't being promoted by a ruthless, legality-bending sociopath. The computer industry didn't standardize on the best operating system. It standardized on the operating system that would make Bill Gates rich, because he cheated to get it there. And we've all been suffering for it ever since. Someone needed to break the "Mormons won't buy LDS novels" mindset. It didn't need to be Jack Weyland. It could have been anybody. Jack Weyland happened to be the one who did. Now let's not push the analogy too far (remember the "Bridge" thread)--I'm not claiming Weyland is a ruthless, legality-bending sociopath. But what good did it do to create the LDS novel market with writing that was mediocre at best, which level of quality has been perpetuated to this day with only recent signs of recovery from that trend, and driving away many people who otherwise might have enjoyed LDS literature, creating a self-fulfilling mindset that Mormons only want certain types of novels, and making it orders of magnitude more difficult to write good literature and get it published? Why couldn't someone who could write blaze that trail? That question is two-edged. Why indeed couldn't someone else do it? Because no one else tried. Jack Weyland didn't do LDS literature any good, in my opinion, but he nonetheless earned the right to blaze that trail, because he DID it. He was successful because he had no competition. The good writers weren't writing stories that could jump-start the LDS fiction market. We (notice how I include myself in that group) only have ourselves to blame for Jack Weyland. LDS film should have turned out differently. The trail blazer there knows how to make a movie. And yet he's lamenting that the same trend is happening in LDS film that happened in LDS fiction. Is it inevitable that Mormons will crave mediocre but feel-good stories? Or did the trend in LDS fiction corrupt LDS film in its infancy? Have Mormons been brainwashed by LDS literature into looking for the same stories in all storytelling media? I don't know. I only know that I don't like Bill Gates and I don't like Jack Weyland stories and I am tentatively predicting I won't like the film "Charly." -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] More Mormon Movies Date: 01 Nov 2002 08:47:20 +0000 If 2000 was the start of LDS cinema, 2001 saw an excellent step-forward with Brigham City and The Other Side of Heaven, and 2002 is the year of the so-so low-budget movies (Singles Ward, Out of Step, Charly, and Handcart), 2003 might be the year of Book of Mormon movies. There are two Book of Mormon-related movies scheduled to be released in 2003, both still in pre-production, both set to cover 1st Nephi, and both hoping to be the first in a series. Looking at the LDSFilm.com website, I see the newly announced "Book of Mormon Movie", will be directed by Gary Rogers, who mostly has done advertisements and has been an assistant director on a few TV shows, and produced by two of the producers of Charly. Then there is "A Voice from the Dust: Journey to the Promised Land", directed by Peter Johnson, who has directed some Church movies, including The Mountain of the Lord and the remake of Man's Search For Happiness, as well as some children's movies for HBO and the Disney Channel. Besides two business-type producers, it is produced by Scott Swofford and the Director of Photography is Reed Smoot, both of whom have been behind numerous IMAX films, as well as Legacy and The Testaments. It was originally announced as an IMAX film, but now it will be a regular film. The script is by Neil Newell, who co-wrote a bunch of plays with Max Golightly and C. Michael Perry, and teaches writing at BYU. What do you film-type people think? Which one do you have higher expectations for? Looking at the people involved, the Voice from the Dust project looks like it will be more professional. Neither group strikes me as particularly creative, however. A second question: Preston, thanks so much for your weekly box office reports. Looking at the recent one, I started wondering about budget vrs. box office of the LDS films so far. I looked through your website and found some information, but am still lacking other information. Here is what I found: Budget Box office gross God's Army 300,000 2.6 million Brigham City 900,000 854,000 (before video sales) (I saw a wide variety of reports on Brigham City's cost, from 600,000 to 1.2 million. What is right?) Other Side 7 million 4.7 million Singles Ward 400,000 1.25 million Out of Step 200,000? ? Charly 800,000? 388,000 in three weeks Handcart 300,000 56,000 in two weeks. Mary Jane Jones, Richard Dutcher, Preston, can you correct any of my figures? Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan _________________________________________________________________ Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 01 Nov 2002 09:31:03 -0700 There are lots of people who know way more about this than I do, but a = couple things are true. Utah is a Right to Work state, which means that = you can use non-union personnel in films shot here. That's why Touched by = an Angel was shot here. (Rule of thumb: the louder the producers trumpet = the Family Values of the project, the more likely the producers are to = mistreat and underpay the talent and the crew.) In Utah you can get away = with paying non-union workers less than scale. So in answer to your = question, yeah, I think the point of a non-SAG casting call is to keep = costs down. Young actors trying to get a break into the industry are = vulnerable enough and desperate enough that you can really take financial = advantage of them I have a student who had one full day on the Singles Ward set, had a = speaking role, and was paid a total of one dollar. She's not the only = one; lots of the actors in small speaking roles were treated equally = shabbily. That sort of behavior is, as it happens, legal in the state of = Utah. It's grotesquely immoral, IMO, especially since now, with the = financial success of the film assured, the producers could make it up to = her and the many others in the film who were also taken advantage of. = Don't hold your breath.=20 This casting call, though, for the Book of Mormon film, well my heck. = Practically every word is a red flag. "No SAG actors": in other words, we = have no plans to treat actors fairly, or pay anything close to a standard = working wage. So who can possibly have written a Book of Mormon screenplay= , which, you never know, may well have involved actually reading the Book = of Mormon, and from that come to the conclusion that, in filming it, it's = okay to grind in the faces of the poor like this? I mean, lots of = filmmakers make the decison going in that they're not going to behave = ethically, but, uh, this is a film based on the Book of Mormon. It gets better. "We only want good looking people": in other words, we = plan to be as sexist as Hollywood at its worst,and also historicity be = damned. They're announcing both a casting call AND a release date, and = they're, what, a year apart, something like that? How may I count the = ways in which these yokels have proved that they have no idea what they're = doing? Prediction: their script is a first-draft, by non-writers. Their = director maybe has done a couple of local commercials. They're going to = cut every corner they can, financially and ethically. People get ready, = there's a train wreck comin'. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Call for Panelists at BYU SF&F Symposium Date: 01 Nov 2002 12:16:09 -0700 If anyone is interested in being on a panel or giving a presentation=20 at Life, the Universe, & Everything XXI, please contact Charlie=20 Harmon at directly. The symposium will be held February=20 12-15, 2003, at the Wilkinson Center at BYU. Guests of Honor are=20 Patricia Wrede, Esther Friesner, and Orson Scott Card (Thursday=20 only). For more information, see the web site at=20 http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue. Marny Parkin >To: ltue@yahoogroups.com >From: c2h@aol.com >Mailing-List: list ltue@yahoogroups.com; contact ltue-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list ltue@yahoogroups.com >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:54:51 EDT >Subject: [ltue] Call for writing track panelists >Reply-To: ltue@yahoogroups.com > >This is a tentative list of panels. >What I do is list all the panels I would LIKE to have. Then I list all the >panelists who have expressed an interest in being on that panel. >THEN, i will cull down the list. I will remove panelists, and remove panels= =2E >So, if you see your name on a LOT of panels, you won't end up on all of the= m. >I try and keep panelists to six or fewer panels. (I DO make exceptions for >some people, like the GOHs. ) >So, if you would like to be a panelist, let me know. > >Also, these and the CYOW panels are (or soon will be) listed on the web pag= e. > The other tracks will be added as soon as possible. >So check it out! http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue > >Charlie > > > >TOLKIEN PANELS > >**>>The OTHER Tolkien: Farmer Giles of Ham and other tales by Tolkien >(Paul N. Hyde, Steven C. Walker, >**>>LOTR: A Moral Tale: Is LOTR a moral tale? And if so, whos morals? >What Christian influences went into LOTR? What can we learn today from the= se >books? >(Ruth Hanson, > >>Light and Dark images in LOTR: The use of light and dark, good and evil >images in Tolkien=92=C4=F4s trilogy, and what they represent >(Paul N. Hyde, Steven C. Walker, Heather Monson, Ruth Hanson, > >>LOTR: Coming of Age in Middle Earth: > >>Anti-heroes: Frodo and Gollum >(Ruth Hanson, > >>Tolkien=92=C4=F4s Children: How JRR Tolkien influenced generations of= writers and >filmmakers. > > >STORYTELLING: and STORY TELLING: > >** >>How to tell a good tale: Tips and tricks to telling a good tale >(Ken Rand, > >>Fairy Tales: =92=C4=FAthings that go bump in the night=92=C4=F9 the= original horror >stories? > >>Written vs oral storytelling: How they differ and are similar. > 1) how to do them well. > 2) What can one teach the other? >**>>Writing a gripping first chapter, or writing hooks that catch their >interest >(Ann Chamberlin, Susan Kroupa, Krys Morgan, > >>Following through: You have a good hook. Now keep their attention >(Ann Chamberlin, Krys Morgan, Ron Morgan, >**>>SF/F as social commentary >(Ann Chamberlin, Ruth Hanson, >**>>Moral Themes in Fantasy and the concept of Good and Evil in SF/F (Proba= bly >compared or contrasted to modern morality) >(Ann Chamberlin, Ruth Hanson, Susan Kroupa, > >>The =92=C4=FAmeaning=92=C4=F9 of stories: >"The Uses of Enchantment" by Bettelheim, and a few even better books by >Robert Bly, do interesting work with Fairy Tales. I'd like a panel for >something similar, possibly using a familiar story like Sleeping Beauty, or >television programs, or LOTR. >(Ann Chamberlin, Ruth Hanson, > >>Mystical storytelling. Using cards, guinea pigs, and other means to com= e >up with story ideas. > > >WRITING for WRITERS: > > >>What do SF writers fear? Arthur C. Clarke has been quoted to >say that SF isn't about futures we want, but about futures we fear. The >gothic interpretation of SF and counterexamples to Clarke's notion. >(Barbara Hume, > >>Career building--what do I do AFTER I publish a story? >1) how do I use this publication in pitching other stories, >2) SFWA membership, yes/no and why?, >3) special problems for writers of >both sf and f, >4) how not to tick off the editor who first published >you >(Susan Kroupa, Ron Morgan, >**>>Attending cons as an unknown pro: >1) what's different about attending a con in "pro" mode as opposed to "fan" >mode >2) how can you meet editors, agents and other life forms at cons, >3) which specific cons have the best chances for helping you--in terms of >panels presented, contacts available, etc. >(David-Glenn Anderson, Ken Rand, Susan Kroupa, > >>Economics of writing professionally >(Ann Chamberlin, > >>Security, identity and privacy in the second Web decade. Knowledgeable = u >sers and local experts on technical, social and legal issues- >1) anonymity vs. authentication, >2) data security, privacy, free speech etc. >3) favorite techno-dystopias from Huxley and Orwell to Stephenson, Drake >etc, and the likelihood of such becoming reality. > >>Copyright vs FanFic. The rights of the original vs the rights of the fa= n > >>Changing technology. Going from 1.4 MB to 140 GB. How changing technolo= gy >affects writers and their writing. >(Ruth Hanson, > > >ABOUT WRITING: TECHNIQUES and GENRES: > > >>"What are you afraid of?" the practice and theory of horror. >(Michael R. Collings, Ruth Hanson, >**>>The importance of genealogy in fantasy fiction >(Krys Morgan, Ruth Hanson, > >>Military sf (fan/reader oriented) >1) who's good, who's popular, etc. >2) Classifications in the subgenre. Realism, story telling etc. >3) Stories and authors that transcend the subgenre vs. those that reinforc= e >it. >4) Earliest roots (Lensman), transitional growth (Laumer, Pournelle, Drake= , >S.M. Stirling), recent (Bujold, Moon, Weber, Turtledove). >5) Borrowings and "winks" between authors. Influence of editors, >particularly Jim Baen. >6) Historical conflicts re-created in sf (Byzantium, Korea). "Military >fantasy" (Moon's "Paksennarion") as a >related subgenre. >(Ruth Hanson, > >>Military and sf (semi-academic oriented): military sf as a useful (or >useless) distillation of actual military knowledge and history. >1) What is the applicability to actual problems (e.g. the current war on >terrorism). >2) What are some of the true and false "lessons" gained from novels primari= ly >intended as entertainment. >3) Impact of personalities and individual character on the conduct of war. >(Ruth Hanson, >**>>Writing Passive Voice: its use and abuse >(Ann Chamberlin, Barbara Hume, Ruth Hanson, Krys Morgan, >**>>Enchantment and worldbuilding: building a believable magic >(Ruth Hanson, Susan Kroupa, Krys Morgan, > >>Lightening the suspense: Humor in fantasy and science fiction writing >Sometimes a little levity can lessen the tension of the plot. Sometimes it >just makes for a good read. But you must be cautious when being funny. >**>>Chicks in Chainmail: The =92=C4=FAnew=92=C4=F9 female warrior >(Barbara Hume, Susan Kroupa, > >>Types of Humor in SF: What are good ways of using humor in your writing. >Situarional and verbal. > >>From idea to story: You have a great idea. How do you turn it into a gr= eat >story? >(Ruth Hanson, Krys Morgan, > >>Building Plausible Futures >The internet could continue to make "power to the people" more real... Or >lead us to an Orwellian dystopia. >Nanotech, stemcells, cloning, wearable computers, implanted computers, >depleted resources, increasing understanding... could lead to several kinds >of Utopia, or disaster, or a Vinge singularity. What can we expect? > > >WRITING for CHILDREN and YA: > > >>Writing for children: a market for kids, or for parents? >(Pat Castelli, > >>Writing for children: You have a good book. Now what? Getting your no= vel >published and noticed. >**>>SF for YW Writing for the growing =92=C4=FAtween=92=C4=F9 market. >(Laura Swift, Pat Castelli, > > >WRITING an EDITORS and PUBLISHERS view: > > >>Selecting and Editing an anthology: An insider=92=C4=F4s view As= writers, we=92=C4=F4ve >submitted to anthologies. Editors speak of what it=92=C4=F4s like to put= =20 >one together > >>SF: An editor=92=C4=F4s view > >>What editors look for in a story > >>Proper manuscript protocol From cover sheets to follow-ups, things you >should know about submitting a story/novel >(Ruth Hanson, > >>Local Publishers: Who=92=C4=F4s out there. >(Ron Morgan, > >ET CETERA: > > >>Dreaming in Public >Have a few writers & artists talk about putting together a hypothetical >heavily illustrated story book. > >>The Better Books. Some authors are known for their =92=C4=F2blockbuster= =92=C4=F4 or >=92=C4=F2classic=92=C4=F4 books. But sometimes those aren=92=C4=F4t their= =92=C4=F2best=92=C4=F4 books. >Alduous Huxley wrote the famous "Brave New World" and his last and best and >little known book, "Island" and what other authors and books have suffered = a >similar fate? >**>>Teaching Science Fiction in the classroom >(Laura Swift, David-Glenn Anderson, > >Media: > >>LOTR/Star Wars/Harry Potter: =92=C4=FAgive in to the dark side...=92=C4= =F9 The use of >light and dark in LOTR , Star Wars and Harry Potter. (May be a Media panel= ) >(Heather Monson, Barbara Hume, Krys Morgan, ) > > >PRESENTATIONS: >@Paul N. Hyde "The Foundations of Middle Earth: The Linguistic Aesthetic o= f >J.R.R. Tolkien." >@Terry O=92=C4=F4Brien =92=C4=FAFair Gods and Feathered Serpents=92=C4=F9 >@Michael R. Collings =92=C4=FABookbinding: do-it-yourself bookmaking=92=C4= =F9 >@Judi Collings =92=C4=FAJewelry making: With emphasis on period designs in = beadwork >or wire-wrap:=92=C4=F9 >@Pat Castelli =92=C4=FABest recent YA and Children=92=C4=F4s literature=92= =C4=F9 >@Shayne Bell? > > > >> panel/presentation titles >** panels most likely to make it >@ presentations > >Workshops: >Poetry (Michael R. Collings) >To: ltue@yahoogroups.com >From: "esmertal" >Mailing-List: list ltue@yahoogroups.com; contact ltue-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list ltue@yahoogroups.com >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:04:56 -0000 >Subject: [ltue] Call for Panelists -- Create Your Own World >Reply-To: ltue@yahoogroups.com > >This year, CYOW will be holding panels on the following topics. If >you have interest in any of the following fields and would like to >participate in a panel, please contact me. For a list of the panels >that will be presented, please visit the website: >http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue/events.html > >Anthropology >Botany >Cartography >Comparative Religion >Ecology >Evolution >Genealogy and Lineage >Geology >Geography >Linguistics >Metaphysics >Meteorology >Mythology >Physics >Political Science >Propaganda >Psychology >Sociology >Storytelling >Superstition >Technology >Warfare >Weapons and Armor >Zoology -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: [AML] RE: SAMUELSEN, _Peculiarities_ (Review) Date: 01 Nov 2002 15:35:05 -0700 ___ Mary Jane ___ | And as I recall, there was some stink a couple years ago about | some students that had started up a "nickmo" web site, where | people could go to find willing partners. BYU and Provo City | tried to get that shut down pretty quickly. ___ As I recall that was because it was being used for muggings and the like. (As if anyone stupid enough to take such a site seriously had any common sense) There are lots of so-called "nickmos" at BYU. It seems like a rite of passage for freshmen and sophomores. At realistically a lot of people who do a lot of nicmos tend to end up doing more than a simple make out. (Although typically shy of what would get them in trouble) So it isn't a good thing. I personally know of people who've made out with hundreds of people at BYU. I don't think that is a good thing either. I personally think it is about the same thing as those people who go home with different partners at dance clubs all the time. Perhaps they aren't typically having sex at BYU like at other places. But I tend to think the root underlying effects on ones view of relationships is the same. Further, as I mentioned, I believe it is far easier to screw up in such circumstances. But this is getting away from literature. . . Unless someone wants to do a book about it I suppose. [Clark Goble] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 01 Nov 2002 17:44:24 -0500 This Book of Mormon movie thing is very amusing, so far. Here's what we know: - They want to cast only attractive people. We've been making fun of this, but really, isn't it what all movies do? What's funny, I suppose, is that they actually saw a need to SAY that in the press release, like somehow that will stop ugly people from auditioning. The fact is, as you know if you watched "American Idol," being untalented or unattractive doesn't stop people from THINKING they're talented and attractive. No matter what the press release said, bad actors who are also ugly and short will show up to audition, I guarantee it. - They want to cast non-professionals, but non-professionals who are gorgeous and super-talented. Seems like most people fitting that description would have already gone pro by now, but maybe not. And again, see the last item about people thinking they're talented when they're not. - Their intention, according to the press release I saw, is to have the film in theaters in spring 2003. But they HAVEN'T EVEN CAST IT YET! A low-budget, no-location film like "Singles Ward" MAYBE could be thrown together that fast. But a big epic adventure with location shooting? My goodness, no. This alone makes me wonder if the people involved have ever been involved with making a movie before. - Surely the film will be terrible. I hope it's good, and I'm eager for it to be good, but the signs sure don't point that direction right now. And when it's bad, and critics say so, people will accuse them of watching it with the wrong spirit, or being anti-Mormon, or whatever, the way they did when "Handcart" sucked and some of us said so. (And by "some of us," maybe I just mean me. We got a phone call the day my review ran from the father of one of the cast members, and he was demanding we run a retraction -- like somehow I had gotten my opinion wrong and needed to correct it.) Anytime secular things like movies are mixed with spiritual things like the Book of Mormon, there's going to be trouble. I can't wait. Eric D. Snider -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 01 Nov 2002 16:20:06 -0700 ___ Eric ___ | Bellesiles' response to the Emory report quite correctly points | out that the Emory committee found fault with only the tiniest | corner of his research. ___ Not having read him nor the full report, is that because they examined all his facts and arguments or is it that this is just the things they looked at? I ask because it sounds like he has lied about numerous other things to the point of accusing other scholars of forging emails and claiming what was on his web site was put there by hackers. Further reviews I've read have taken him to task on many things other than the forged probate records. i.e. his reading of anti-federalists and so forth. The bigger problem is that Bellesiles' thesis is about the ownership of guns. He claims, based on the fictitious probate records, that it was around 15% and that most of those guns were old. Yet others who did surveys of records have claimed that in the late 18th century the figure was 55% and that there was no evidence they were old or broken. Thus it seems like the problem is more than a few paragraphs. I don't know what the answer is. To be honest it isn't a topic that interests me too much. However the wide range of views here and Bellesiles' dishonesty makes me think that perhaps assuming someone will replicate Bellesiles' work is a tad questionable. [Clark Goble] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mary Jane Jones" Subject: Re: [AML] Artists and Unions Date: 01 Nov 2002 16:23:24 -0700 Peter Chamberlain wrote: > I would be interested in artists experiences with >unions and being able to maintain artistic control, if there have been = any situations. Most orchestral musicians belong to AFM, the American Federation of = Musicians. While in some ways the union really helped to improve the = working conditions and the rights of orchestra musicians, they also tied = the hands of the music director and the administration in all kinds of = complicated ways, and I have even seen times where union rules have hurt = the overall artistic integrity of the orchestra. =20 For example, the union rules specifically state that, rehearsals are = exactly 2 and a half hours long, and not a minute longer (unless you pay = overtime). The musicians will pick up and walk out (and many have been = known to do so). In the past, some conductors would hold excruciatingly = long rehearsals - that no longer can happen. But if a conductor needs = just 15 more minutes to finish a rehearsal, he is out of luck. My husband = was doing a joint concert with the ballet a few years ago, and they ran = out of orchestra rehearsal time before they could finish a final run-throug= h of the world premiere ballet they were performing. The ballet director = had a screaming fit, because the dancers didn't have a union, and she = couldn't understand why the musicians couldn't just stay another 10 = minutes to finish the piece. Also, it is very, very difficult to dismiss a musician who has been given = tenure, even if there seems to be good reason for the dismissal (lack of = musicianship, etc.) Here in Charleston, there has been at least one time = where the music director tried to fire a particular musician because the = musician's playing was just not up to standard. The union called in = several "New York" lawyers (which is a big deal in Charleston). The = orchestra administration and the music director basically had to back down = because they lacked the resources to fight the union. That musicians = still plays, and the playing is, sadly, still not up to standard... Mary Jane Ungrangsee -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Voice from the Dust: Book of Mormon Movie Date: 01 Nov 2002 17:06:50 -0700 > >The primary crew members involved, according to the website, are: > >Producer/Writer/Director=20 >Peter Johnson > >Producer >Steven DeVore > >Producer >Craig Peterson=20 > >Producer=F1Production Manager >Scott Swofford=20 > >Writer=20 >Neil Newell=20 > >Director of Photography >Reed Smoot=20 I don't feel so bad about the film now, knowing the Neil is writing it and that Reed Smoot is filming it. Reed has always been my first choice were I ever to do a film. Neil is a good writer (though, it goes without saying, his version of the BofM screenplay will never be as good as mine! ). Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Fowkes" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops Date: 02 Nov 2002 17:53:27 -0700 D. Michael Martindale: > On the other hand, those poor naive bishops would never have had that > shocking experience in the first place if we'd just talk about these > things, or write about them in stories. Perhaps that murky slime beneath > the surface wouldn't even exist if we opened up about it so we could do > something about it. > > But I guess that's out of the question. You see, it's not "uplifting." > Better to let the lives of many people fester under the surface, so > those who think inspiration is a feel-good story that evokes a tear > aren't bothered with the sordid details of reality. > > Sorry, feeling a bit cynical tonight. Sordid details of reality. This post kind of stayed with me until I saw this scene in my mind that I would like *very much* to see in an LDS novel. A Stake President offers a man to be sustained as the new bishop of a ward. Hands go up in agreement. "Any opposed?" And first one, then a second hand goes up, slowly, then more determinedly in the first rows of the middle section. The hands belong to the new 'bishop''s teenage daughters. Except for the usual sounds of small children, the congregation is dead silent. The Stake President looks the daughters in the eyes. One stares back defiantly. The other is in tears. They carefully avoid the shocked face of their mother sitting beside them, ignoring her whispered,"what are you doing?!", as well as the wrath in the eyes of their father on the stand. The Stake President, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, asks if there are any others who are opposed, that now was the time to speak up. After seconds that feel like millenia, other hands, just a smattering, also go up. Girls who have been previous friends of the daughters, who used to be visitors to their house. One or two are known to be the sluts of the ward. A couple of others have had more serious troubles with drugs and alcohol, and rebellion of other kinds. Two or three are the 'perfect' girls in the ward who appear to do everything right, get all A's, not popular at school, but not ostracized either. Just good kids. There are about 9 or 10 hands that eventually remain after about 30 seconds have gone by. The Stake President indicates that his stake business will be concluded at a later date, thanks everyone, then steps away from the podium and walks out of the congregation. The girls who raised their hands all follow him. The man who was to be sustained as bishop is as white-faced as it is possible to be, and looks like he would like the floor to open up and swallow him, but he doesn't know how to leave. Once he does leave, the police are waiting for him with handcuffs out in the foyer. Just once I would like to see this happen. And just once maybe, if this were in a novel, girls who are sitting in a congregation (girls I know personally, now women) while their father or molestor -- often a friend's father -- was being sustained as bishop, will have the courage to raise their hands to oppose that sustaining, and end the lies, end the cycle, and begin the healing. Kathy Fowkes -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] _Finnegan's Wake_ and _Ulysses_ Date: 01 Nov 2002 17:55:19 -0700 ___ Justin ___ | I have a problem with Rob Lauer's polemic that language is only | valid when it is instrumental; that is, when it is used to | "communicate" something. ___ I've stayed out of this, mainly due to time, but I have to fully agree with Justin and his criticism. One of the most amazing things about all things linguistic to me is finding the unexpected. There isn't this transparent mastery of the "tool" by the author. Rather the author always communicates unexpected things, unconscious messages of themselves and their culture, and then language itself can open up many interesting avenues. This isn't just in more "poetic" language and literature, such as found in John Donne or James Joyce. Rather it occurs all the time in mathematics - probably the most "unpoetic" form of language there is. Yet any mathematician will tell you there is a poetic beauty to mathematics that is stunning. I bring up mathematics because I think it illustrates how I feel about Joyce. Mathematics takes years to master so that you can really read even simple writings and appreciate them. Yet thousands upon thousands have and historically math was considered the most transcendent of human writing. To such an extent that Plato wanted to ban the regular poets from his state. Yet at the same time the vast majority of even the educated populace can not stand reading math. To them it is gibberish and they can't understand how anyone could possibly read such things for enjoyment. I think the same is true with Joyce. Joyce is not a simple read. Further he is, I think, designed to read in a way that is closer to studying rather than the way one reads Stephen King. Yet, as with mathematical writings, those few who have the ability to discern the beauty there are thrilled. Further many people enjoy the very kind of reading that requires so much of them. That is part of the beauty of mathematics. Reading isn't transparent at all, but rather the very act of reading puts one in a kind of relationship with the text that can't occur in simpler ways of reading. Now just as most mathematicians enjoy other kinds of books, I suspect most Joyce readers do as well. The only difference is that some authors, whether Joyce, Derrida or whomever, can be attacked simply because they are so confusing to those who've not prepared themselves to read it. Further, just as with mathematics, those who "feign knowledge" of how to read the texts often produce a great deal of gibberish on the subject. [Clark Goble] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 01 Nov 2002 18:34:30 -0700 Just to keep the record straight, the Book of Mormon movie is far from underfunded. According to the writer/director/producer, it has a multi-million dollar budget (which I take to mean at least $2 million, which is more than twice the production budget for Brigham City) and that all funding for the film is complete, which is why they are now in the casting stages. Filming is to occur in Utah, California, and Mexico with some limited additional filming in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. The film is currently scheduled to be released in the spring - so it is difficult to see a scenario where the film would not be made. I believe that often production companies will choose to not use SAG actors because SAG requires that actors be paid again if the film is to be released on video or DVD and again each time it is to be aired on television in some form - in other words, each additional use - but the production company does not want to do this. I know this is a simplification of a complicated union agreement, but I believe that is more or less accurate. I think these may have been the problems with "Legacy" referred to by another contributor, although I am not privy to any specific information about that particular situation. I also am not aware of the producer's specific reasons for not wanting to use SAG actors in the case of "The Book of Mormon Movie". Thomas ---------------------------- "Of course, there should be a structure, an architecture to any score. It's not a piece here and a piece there. It has to be thought out. You can't approach each cue as a separate piece of music." - Jerry Goldsmith, composer Contact info: Thomas C. Baggaley Composer 9446 Fox Hunt Drive Sandy, Utah 84092 Tel: (801) 942-3580 E-mail: thomas@baggaleymusic.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and BELLESILES, _Arming America_ Date: 01 Nov 2002 21:12:06 -0700 ---Original Message From: Eric R. Samuelsen > > Okay, I've read the Emory report and I've read all the > material available at the website cited in this post. I've > gotten interested in this controversy because I've read > Bellesiles' book, and find it most interesting. A few comments: > > 1) The Emory report strikes me as a model of fair minded and > academically responsible peer review. Bellesiles' response > to the Emory report quite correctly points out that the Emory > committee found fault with only the tiniest corner of his > research. But that's not relevant. He is, at the very > least, guilty of shoddy note-taking, and of misrepresenting > his data. It doesn't matter that the errors only occur in > three paragraphs. The scholarly standard is and must be > higher than that. No one represents that higher standard > more than Laurel Thatcher Ulrich. Did we even read the same report? Bellesiles faked data. Worse, he deliberately lied to cover his fakery (which is how the LDS mention happened). > 3) Bellesiles' book has now effectively been discredited in > academic circles. That doesn't mean he's wrong, that doesn't > mean his arguments aren't valid, and that doesn't invalidate > the literally thousands of pieces of untainted evidence that > bolster those arguments. What this means (and this is all > that it means) is no reputable scholar is going to be able to > cite Bellesiles as a source, probably ever, not until another > scholar replows the same ground. Which, I predict, will > happen, and that right soon. I highly doubt that. For one, you can't get the information he claimed to get from the records he claimed to get it from. Estate inventories are singularly useless as a gauge for ownership of anything--particularly something so common as not to stand out much. Wills are even worse because it is a rare will indeed that doesn't have an "elastic" clause to catch things not specifically enumerated. If you really want to come close to gun ownership numbers, you should hit shop-keeper inventories and manufacture and distribution statistics. Or you can rely on contemporary accounts--visiting Europeans are particularly useful here because they tend to mention specifically how many guns they found openly carried in the U.S.--mainly as a contrast to their home countries. Bellesiles' studies are most misleading because they look like they represent a good way to come at the information he claims to be searching for, but rely on a fundamentally weak method to arrive at his supposed facts. > 4) As usual, those outside the academy with a passionate > interest in the issues Bellesiles raises have overreacted in > the most deplorable way, unnecessarily politicizing and > grotesquely oversimplifying a reasonably complex issue of > academic integrity. (You can really see that in the comments > links on that website) It's difficult to imagine a more > emotionally charged series of issues than those raised by the > Second Amendment. Bellesiles chose to jump right smack in > the middle of that debate. Shame on him for not documenting > his work more thoroughly. He's still right, of course. The > fact that his work is academically discredited does not > render it invalid, or false. But still, shame on him. Um. This isn't just lousy documentation. He lied. He lied repeatedly to the committee investigating his work. He made up stories about getting information from an unnamed "LDS friend" and he made up stories about getting data for pre-1908 San Francisco. He has effectively taken himself out of academic credibility and anybody who plans to pursue his line of research had better do a markedly better job at it. I'm sure he felt comfortable attacking the "right-wing gun nuts"--we're a group academia feels free to attack with impunity because "right-wing gun nuts" is enough of a label all by itself to ensure no effective rebuttal. To me, Bellesiles illustrates how very far you have to go before academia is forced to take you on to protect what little credibility they have left. > 5) Bellesiles is not a star. He's not famous, he's not a > celebrity-scholar. And he took on a very controversial > issue. Of course his shoddy scholarship was going to catch > up to him. Too many people care too fervently about this > issue for him not to get caught. If he were a celebrity, > like Stephen Ambrose, he would still have been okay. Barbara > Tuchman (who I adore) literally peppered her work (esp. A > Distant Mirror) with factual errors. It didn't matter, > because she was Barbara Tuchman. Fame helps. First off, in the circles Bellesiles frequents, his book is *hardly* controversial. It's practically dogma and it doesn't surprise me that he was blindsided a little bit that he would come under any scrutiny whatsoever, let alone enough to prompt official responses. What's amazing about the whole episode is that it took over a year of steady pressure to get an investigation going at all. Even then, it began grudgingly until it became clear that the accusations were unskirtable. But we've had this conversation before about increasing academic agendization. Academia is doing itself huge harm with this carelessness that has become *way* too common. Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Ellsworth" Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 01 Nov 2002 22:33:52 -0700 [MOD: I also know that John Murphy has been a highly respected member of the BYU English department. I think I've heard of a number of other non-LDS professors at BYU, but he's one example that comes quickly to mind.] There are two non-LDS full professors in the psychology department. I believe that non-LDS faculty are held to pretty much the same standards as the rest of the faculty. -Jennifer Ellsworth John Remy: Must one be an active, temple-recommend wielding member to teach at BYU? Are there examples of non-LDS tenured professors at BYU? (I honestly don't know.) _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN. http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Janelle Higbee" Subject: [AML] Re: Single Bishops Date: 02 Nov 2002 13:55:06 -0700 -----Original Message----- >>Most women are used to considering the alien/other as something they do e= very day. It has to do with community, sociality, and other stereotypical "discourse" tendencies found = common among women.<< True, true. In one of my literary theory classes at BYU several years ago,= we discussed this subject as an issue of feminist criticism. I can't re= member who we were reading--Helene Cixous? I'd have to dig out my notes--= but the theorist pointed out that when it comes to discursive patterns, w= omen learn to be "bi-sexual" as well as "bi-lingual" in order to communic= ate effectively in a public discourse that is predominately male. =20 from Jacob: <= > This is very intriguing. (And it also gave me something new to talk about = when delivering the visiting teaching message last week; the topic was "S= ustaining the Priesthood." So thanks, Jacob!) Certainly the organizational structure of the church can have this effect o= f blurring gendered differences--encouraging men and women to become more= like the Other. Quite a surprising effect, really, considering how ofte= n the church (and organized religion in general) is blamed for reinforcin= g gender stereotypes. I've done some research related to these issues. My master's thesis was a = study of the rhetorical patterns and public discourse of early Relief Soc= iety and female suffrage leaders in Nauvoo and Salt Lake. I'm convinced = we don't give the church enough credit as an agent of radical change (for= good!) in how men and women interact in a community. I'm also convinced we still don't take enough advantage of all the opportun= ities such a radical, Christ-centered discourse community offers us to im= prove our communication skills. (Although the AML-List community is certa= inly doing its part. Kudos, everyone!) -Janelle Higbee -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings Date: 02 Nov 2002 15:13:16 -0700 At 05:00 PM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote: >Shameless plug: >My novel, Lost Without You, deals with this issue with a perspective I don't >think has been done before in LDS literature. Who's your publisher? Is it available now? I'd enjoy seeing a new perspective. It might enliven the constant discussions I have with other Mormons on this issue! barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melanie Dahlin Subject: Re: [AML] Lee Benson on _Charly_ Date: 02 Nov 2002 15:38:23 -0700 (MST) I stand corrected. Of course, I DID recognize that Weyland was not the only one writing Mormon literature. I just feel that he is one (not the only one) pioneer that made Mormon literature well-known. Although, I suppose I can allow you to contradict me, just this once. -Melanie Dahlin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melanie Dahlin Subject: [AML] Re: Johnny Lingo Date: 02 Nov 2002 15:45:12 -0700 (MST) [MOD: This is a compilation of two posts from Melanie.] That would be hilarious! I'd watch it! -Melanie Dahlin I'm sorry. Let me try this again. I think Alan's ideas for a sequel to Johnny Lingo are hilarious! -Melanie Dahlin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lynette Jones Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader Date: 02 Nov 2002 20:17:04 -0700 At 08:15 PM 10/31/2002 -0700, you wrote: >William Mulder has said that "the burden of creating a Mormon literature in >the future rests as heavily on the reader as on the writer." > ...we must first examine the >reason readers continue to buy the Weyland-esque novels. . . . .readers >want safe, easy answers in the literature >they support. A novel like _Charly_, which spells out and nearly preaches >lessons in standard doctrine, faithfully preserves the status quo. It does >not shock expectations of didactic entertainment as does Virginia Sorensen's >_A Little Lower than the Angels_. Mormon readers do not want to be forced >to ask questions while reading Mormon literature; they only want simplistic >affirmation of doctrine through formulaic means. Productive ambiguity in >exploring imperfect characters, which was the work of Shakespeare, Bronte >and Faulkner among other great writers, is not welcome to a readership >expecting safe and effortless stories. > >.... >The reader's responsibility in the creation of good literature, then, comes >down to honesty. Readers must be honest about the ambiguity of striving for >perfection in an imperfect world, for if they ignore this reality there is >no hope in shaping the market forces that dictate the direction of our >literature. > >Andrea Lewis It has not been my experience that Latter-day Saints "do not want to be forced to ask questions" while reading literature. There are oh so many Latter-day Saints who love to read "Shakespeare, Bronte and Faulkner among other great writers." And there are many people out here who love to "be honest about the ambiguity of striving for perfection in an imperfect world." On the other hand, for a writer to cultivate an audience, takes lengthy study of one's audience with an honest realization of what they read and what kind of lives they live. I find Orson Card's blunt honesty healthy and of a clear vision. I found the blunt honesty of a writer on this list who's book I read earlier this year degrading and vulgar. Good literature, in whatever genre, even murder mysteries, which cause us to search the deepest and darkest recesses of our souls, will give the reader a healthy, balanced diet. I think that to understand how to write healthy, balanced honest fiction for any group is a challenge. I feel that to write so for the Latter-day Saints is especially challenging because they have the gift of the Holy Ghost. By narrowing the genre to that group exclusively, a writer must appeal to all levels of maturity to make it financially. That is a near impossible demand, for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was established to be "adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints." D&C 89:3. (A note of interested, one can find in 89 a terrestrial and celestial law that not all are aware of. Those parts are not requirements for baptism). If, instead, a writer selected a maturity level to write for and expanded the audience to all people of that level and then applied true and correct principles, it is my self-righteous opinion that they might begin to experience the success of Orson Card. There is a writer loved and accepted by all who can read his work, regardless of their faith or ethnicity. Frankly, there are those on the maturity level of Jack Weyland. I am grateful he writes for such people. Those folks do grow up and mature to other literature. Perhaps such a writer would bless us all if he or she could encourage a little stretching of the mind. On the other hand, perhaps such a writer's audience would expand, if he or she would like to reach out to an audience across a greater diversity, still keeping that maturity level. My opinion is that Gordon Bowen hit the nail on the head when he said the following: "...please, resist creating art specifically for "the Mormon market." That's putting the candle under the bushel, if you ask me. One of my favorite pieces of modern sculpture is the gold statue of Prometheus stealing fire from heaven at Rockefeller Center. You must risk and sacrifice to bring new light. One of the roles of the artist is to bring the celestial fire to the earth. And to do that, you must carry the torch in your own hands." So what do I think the purpose of AML can be in light of that opinion? Gordon Bowen said we must compete with the world, but never, never with each other. It is here that we will cultivate in each other, not ourselves, the Shakespeares, Brontes and Faulkners of the Kingdom of God and I think they will put such writers to shame. But we will also cultivate the Louisa May Alcotts, who wrote to a group of young women who loved and cherished her literature because it spoke to them. They were the ones who, when out in the cold dark world away from home, then fell in love with Thoreau and other perhaps more "mature" peers of Louisa. Lynette Jones -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience Date: 03 Nov 2002 10:18:09 -0700 Michael wrote a treatise about "Cautionary tales." A great discussion! I loved reading it, and I couldn't agree more! We must not avoid creating scary worlds. I am hyped up again about creating the killers' world so we can face that one full steam ahead. Plus I wanted to say thank you to him publicly for a terrific forum of writers, readers, film people, Saturday! What a lot of work, and it was wonderful. We learned so much from each other! Thank you for all of your efforts, Michael! You did a terrific job. Marilyn Brown -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R Seagle" Subject: [AML] re: Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 03 Nov 2002 13:26:01 -0800 If I could have only one reference book on screenwriting it would be = SCREENPLAY: WRITING THE PICTURE by Robin Russin. =20 Robin teaches at UCLA's graduate screenwriting program, and also at = University of California at Riverside. I had a class with him at UCLA = and he's fantastic. Not the David Trottier isn't, but I've read his = book also and I still favor Robin's heavily. Rebecca Seagle I also had the pleasure of having Robin as a teacher at UCLA's = screenwriting program. Just about any question you could have on the = process of writing a screenplay is addressed in his book. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben Christensen" Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN: _Peculiarities_ (Review) Date: 03 Nov 2002 14:37:05 -0700 > > I enjoyed all the parts and pieces of this play, and admire the playwright's > skill in both conceiving and executing on a difficult theme. In the end, > though, I didn't understand what question Eric Samuelsen was trying to ask > with _Peculiarities,_ and so I left the theater feeling ambivalent about how > well that question was asked. I was clearly outside the target audience for > this play, but I'm not sure I was supposed to be. That's a question I don't > have enough information to answer--or even to ask well. > > Scott Parkin I won't try to say what you should have gotten out of _Peculiarities_, nor will I try to interpret what the playwright intended because Eric himself said at the AML Writers' Conference yesterday that his intention was not to ask or answer questions, but rather to say, "This is the world as I see it." I will, however, say what I got out of the play. First of all, I agree with Scott in that the play was well conceived and executed, and I too enjoyed it. Beyond my initial enjoyment of the play, though, I've appreciated the questions it left me thinking about in the week since I've seen it. In my interpretation, the questions asked by _Peculiarities_ are found in what was NOT portrayed. The play showed a number of people in seemingly hopeless situations, and did nothing to rescue them from those situations. At the end of the play, each of the characters and their plights had been well developed, but I was left wondering, "How will they get out of this?" And I really appreciate that I was left to find my own answers to that question. I probably would have felt insulted if Eric had answered that question by showing at the end of the play that all of the characters prayed and read their scriptures and talked to their bishops and lived happily ever after. I also enjoyed the universality of _Peculiarities_. I've never gotten married and divorced over the weekend only so I could have sex, I've never been a 23-year-old girl despairing because I'm not yet married, I've never had NCMO with anyone, and I've never been in a near-adulterous situation, but I could still relate to the emotions portrayed. In that sense, the play was very real to me. My brother, who is a very-much-not-sexually-repressed atheist, also saw the play and identified with the emotions of the characters--particularly the loneliness and the feeling of being manipulated by someone else. Obviously, not everyone will identify with the play, but the affected audience extends far beyond sexually repressed single BYU students. [Ben Christensen] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: [AML] Hugh WYNN, _The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan_ (Review) Date: 03 Nov 2002 14:10:51 -0800 Review ====== Title: The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan Author: Hugh F. Wynn Publisher: Writers Club Press (an imprint of IUniverse, Inc.) Year Published: 2002 Number of Pages: 305 Binding: Quality Paperback ISBN: 0-595-23831-9 Price: $17.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle (Note: Publicity for the book, and the front cover of the book itself, put the title as "The Mormon...and Mr. Sullivan." But the cover page, the spine and the page headers all omit the ellipsis. I have chosen to follow this convention for convenience purposes only.) "The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan" is a most curious book. Having heard that yet another volume had come forth concerning the Mountain Meadows Massacre, I was, of course, anxious to get my hands on it. Would it be apologetic in nature, or would we have a budding Bagley on our hands? Mr. Wynn's position was made startlingly, and abundantly, clear, at the outset. The opening words of the Foreword follow: America has twice witnessed September 11 episodes of terror: in 2001, the twenty-first century Islamic horror show that brutalized New York City and Washington, D.C., and in 1857, the senseless slaughter of Americans by other Americans near a desert oasis in nineteenth century Mountain Meadows, Utah. Both acts of violence reflect a chosen people's blind faith in their Savior's Divine Purpose. (p. ix) Wow. A bit overstated? I don't know. At the very least we know where Mr. Wynn stands. We can expect little sympathy for John D. Lee and the Mormon attackers, and, in fact, we get little. But this book isn't about assigning blame or condemning an entire people. It's about how the past can reach into the present and affect the lives of real people, sometimes in unexpected, and unwelcome, ways. The Mormon is J. Doyle Lee, namesake and direct descendant of the infamous John D. Lee. He goes by the name Doyle, and shares with his family a dislike for Mormonism and the for the Church that turned its back on his ancestor, leading to his death at the hands of a firing squad. Mr. Sullivan is Jody Sullivan, a wealthy businessman and soon-to-be oil magnate, who befriends Doyle as he (Doyle) begins a new life following an acrimonious divorce. Jody had heard tales of his ancestry, and it soon emerges that he is a descendant of Zealy Sullivan, a scrappy pioneer who had an incidental involvement in the murder of Parley P. Pratt. He subsequently joined the Fancher Party in their trek through Utah, and was murdered in the massacre. "The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan" documents the progress of the lives of the two men. While there are certainly intersections in their lives and careers, and while their friendship is enduring and sincere, they are motivated quite differently and thus find themselves on divergent paths toward clarity. Doyle is out to forget, and grow out of, his past; Jody wants to explore and learn the truth about his past. But when Jody discovers that his new best friend is a descendant of the man who murdered *his* ancestor, how will this affect their friendship? Along the way, Wynn steeps us in detail about the men's lives. Their work (including an extended, and detailed, explanation of the art of oil exploration), their loves and their ambiguities, are explored, nicely developing the characters. Wynn does a good job in defining the characters and placing them at strategic points in the story-telling to keep the plot moving. However, the episodic nature of the book should have encouraged Wynn to at least add some chapter headings, including the years covered. Jumping rapidly from Doyle's childhood to his adulthood, and back, was a bit disconcerting. More than once I had to read into the chapter to know whether I was dealing with the child or the adult. The childhood narratives are especially powerful. Wynn evokes a time and place few of us have experienced. The difficulty of raising a family during the Great Depression, the solidity of family life at a time of extreme economic fragility, add to the story nicely and give us some foundation for understanding the adults. And further, Wynn's narratives of John D. Lee's execution and of the Massacre itself are harrowing and convincing. Wynn has a sure voice in his handling of these accounts. But make no mistake -- this book is a melding of fact and fiction. Beginning on page xv, Wynn offers a Chronology, which he prefaces as follows: The cause and effect of the Mountain Meadows Massacre covers a period spanning fifteen decades. Out of consideration for the reader, set forth below is a chronology of major events, some of which actually happened. And then follows this Chronology, a big help when you consider the constant jumping from past to present without the aid of chapter headings. When reading the last part of the book, one can easily forget that this is about the Mountain Meadows Massacre. It is hardly mentioned as Wynn explores the life-paths of the two men. But when one considers that this book is really an exploration of the emotional trajectories of the Massacre, the relationship is clearer. The Massacre re- emerges as a major issue at the end of the book, with a resolution that might not satisfy some readers. I'm going to spend a few minutes here with my biggest gripe about the book, and I don't know who to blame, the author or the publisher. If an editor even glanced at the book, it isn't obvious. Unbalanced quotation marks are rampant, and are sometimes completely absent, making it impossible to know when someone is speaking or when the narrator is commenting. It was frustratingly distracting. And the book contains hundreds of instances where a spell checker will have missed an error, but an editor would not. Some examples: Sobering details of the 1846 Donner party tragedy was [sic] deeply etched in Fancher's memory. (p. 6) "If I'm arrested and found guilty of involvement in the Meadows affair, Brigham and the Church leadership will come to my defense. They won't sacrificed [sic] me for the misdeeds of so many." (p. 17) "Git some cold water, Rebecca, and some old rags. Wipe his face and I'll clean his wounds." Pratt's face was ashen, a ghostly parlor [sic]." (p. 70) Ed paused again. His silence had a stirring affect [sic] on Jody. (p. 78) And it gets worse as the book proceeds. Mama Grace's passing would be a devastating blow to the children, particularly Jody. She doted on the boy. Mama Grace saw in him a potential that others overlooked. The boy was intelligence [sic], polite, soft-spoken and serious. The somber demeanor often camouflaged his comic tendencies. Mama Grace viewed Jody as a family trailblazer, the one to set a higher educational standard for future generations. She accepted the probably [sic] fate of her four daughters. (p. 168) Two blunders in one paragraph. This is not good. And here is the tragedy of the situation. "The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan" is one heck of a story. Wynn is a good storyteller. He develops his plots and characters and keeps the interest of the reader. He even catches the nuances of what Mel Brooks called "authentic frontier gibberish" without annoying the reader. And he moves his story along with a sure footing and a sense of direction. Why this book wasn't edited is a mystery to me. Should Wynn decide to re-issue the book at some point, this, along with chapter headings that include the years covered, must be done by a careful editor/reviser. One more note: Wynn does a good job of skewering Brigham Young and Parley P. Pratt. He joins a growing chorus of voices raising questions about involvement and responsibility. And yet his book is prefaced with a clear, accurate statement of how Mormon doctrine is established, an apologia of sorts that makes clear that the Church has established methods of determining belief. I don't know whether Wynn is Mormon or not, but he seems to know the culture fairly well. "The Mormon and Mr. Sullivan" is a pretty good book, marred greatly by the editing problems. Had this task been performed better, I would have enjoyed the book a great deal more. Despite this, the book suggests an interesting situation -- the encounter of descendants of historic enemies -- and explores nicely how the past projects into the future and affects peoples lives. ------------------ Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com or jeffneedle@tns.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] WOOLLEY, _Power of Deliverance_ (Deseret News) Date: 04 Nov 2002 01:45:14 +0000 Deseret News Friday, November 1, 2002 Books: Leisure reading 'Power of Deliverance' By David G. Woolley Covenant, $24.95. "You will never read the Book of Mormon the same way again!" the publishers promise. Which is to say that a fictional work, interweaving fictional characters into the story of the Book of Mormon, actually improves the book. Sorry. I don't buy that. I have always found history to be interesting enough on its own that there is no need to "dress it up." But in this volume, part two of "The Promised Land," "Uriah is on trial for treason, having intercepted sensitive military letters from Captain Laban. If Laban and the Elders in the Jerusalem City Council have their way, Uriah, and the secrets that could prove to be Laban's undoing, will be forever silenced." What ensues is a series of invented characters, such as Jonathan the Blacksmith and Josiah the Potter who complement the actual characters, Lehi, Nephi, Zedekiah, Ishmael, Jeremiah, etc. It is chaos. This book gets the reader only through 2nd Nephi and it is more than 600 pages long. (The Book of Mormon itself numbers only 522 pages.) Mark Twain once satirized the Book of Mormon as "chloroform in print." But Woolley's book, with its wooden style, would perhaps have caused Twain to redirect his remark toward "Power of Deliverance." =97 Dennis Lythgoe Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company _________________________________________________________________ Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.=20 http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amelia Parkin" Subject: [AML] Re: Johnny Lingo Date: 04 Nov 2002 13:25:27 -0500 Thom Duncan wrote: Johnny Lingo is most assuredly NOT about loving a person for the way there are inside. It IS about how women need men to be complete. What should have happened (and does, in Eric's _The Way We're Wired_) is that Mahanna is just as ugly at the end of the film as she was at the beginning. As it is, while the movie is trying to say that "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," it's really saying, "True love will make anyone phyisically beautiful." and I say an emphatic AMEN! When I can actually get past the completely=20 laughable presentation of the film _Johnny Lingo_ (my typical response is to= =20 poke great fun at it), this is what bothers me. Mahana was never ugly. she= =20 was just unkempt. anyone can look past the bad fake hair that is kind of=20 scraggly and recognize that the actress is not ugly. She may not be a=20 drop-dead beauty but she is attractive. The only difference is at the end= =20 of the movie she's been given a mirror and can see to comb her hair. I=20 agree fully with Thom. The message of the movie that I see has nothing to= =20 do with Johnny's love making Mahana's interior beauty visible. We're never= =20 even given evidence of internal beauty--no small acts of kindness, no=20 laughter or humor. Just a plain woman who becomes beautiful. for all i=20 know she could be a complete wench. And how does she become beautiful? =20 Because a man paid enough for her. There's another objection in my mind. I= =20 realize that everyone could jump on the cultural bandwagon here--in that=20 culture, men did pay for women with cows. Be that what it may. This=20 particular movie was made in a western culture where men do not pay for=20 women and it was made for a predominantly western audience. Which means, at= =20 least IMHO, the movie-makers found a cultural vehicle they could borrow to= =20 convey the message they wanted to convey, not that they were trying to=20 represent a different culture accurately (if so, why is it that Mahana is=20 still a skinny little thing at the end while all the other 5- and 6-cow=20 wives were the cultural norm? more western influence, maybe?). and while= =20 the intent may have been to show that everyone is beautiful and that their= =20 beauty is seen when it is valued, the 500 pound gorilla that will not leave= =20 the stage is that when a man places enough physical, real, economic value on= =20 a woman she becomes beautiful. It has nothing to do with her--with what she= =20 really is inside her mind and her soul. It has nothing to do with what she= =20 is or what she does. It has everything to do with what is done to her and= =20 done with her and I personally find that absolutely repugnant. If I were to point to a film that I think conveys a better message along=20 similar lines, I would point to _My Big Fat Greek Wedding_. There was a=20 woman who decided to do something for herself. And yes, her change may have= =20 been motivated by the fact that she recognized that she wasn't attractive to= =20 men. But she took the initiative. She found a form of being beautiful that= =20 felt comfortable to her (and do note, it was not the culturally preferred=20 form of beautiful). She made other changes in her life that had to do with= =20 her mind and how she spent her time. And while she did see the "hottie" she= =20 ended up falling in love with and marrying before her change, he was in no= =20 way connected directly to her change. And all the characters are so utterly= =20 real. she doesn't seek some glamorous new profession and find it. She=20 becomes a travel agent for heavens sake. But she found happiness for=20 herself first. And *then* that happiness was enlarged by finding love with= =20 a man who loved her and valued her for herself. And we actually get to see= =20 some of the things about her that make him fall in love with her. I hate johnny lingo. I've always found it laughable. But as I've gotten=20 older and been forced to deal with my own position with regards to men and= =20 dating and relationships, I've discovered how very much I've had to deal=20 with the fact that my value has been determined by whether or not I'm=20 married. I know that's not true and I know I didn't say it exactly right. = =20 Let me try again. It has been so thoroughly etched into my concept of how= =20 things are supposed to be that women are to be wives and mothers, and so few= =20 other accomplishments are celebrated for women in the Mormon church, that=20 for years I have had to struggle with feelings of worthlessness. Here I=20 was, relatively attractive, fun, intelligent. and unmarried and without=20 dates. a failure. I'm fortunate because I have been able to pick this=20 apart to find the fallacies. I know the Gospel (the real one, not the=20 cultural hedge that we build around it) well enough to know that the only=20 descriptive word appropriate for what I was struggling with was BS. I want= =20 our culture and our teachings to stop emphasizing marriage so much. I know= =20 it's important. But there are other things that are vastly more important.= =20 Like charity and love and faith and hope and knowledge. Like making=20 something of ourselves rather than sitting around trying to look pretty=20 enough to attract a man so that hopefully someday we can get married (and=20 the horribly weak comfort that if we don't get married here, maybe in the=20 hereafter it will happen. give me a break. this kind of reasoning is how= =20 Marx came up with his very astute observation that religion is the opiate of= =20 the masses). I know that sounds drastic, but that's how a lot of 18 year=20 old girls feel when they come out of young women's. Lets get rid of the=20 destructive and wrong movies and stories that reinforce those beliefs and=20 start helping our girls, and our boys, understand that the important thing= =20 in life is making ourselves more like God, not getting married so we can go= =20 to the celestial kingdom. Trust me, when we do the first, the second is=20 much more likely to occur. As far as I'm concerned, every extent copy of Johnny Lingo can be thrown=20 away and, for once, I wouldn't object on the basis of not destroying of art.= =20 it's no more art than hitler's propaganda was. it's just a little more=20 gilded. amelia parkin _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections=A0-- switch to=A0MSN Internet Access!=20 http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Book of Mormon movie (DN) Date: 04 Nov 2002 01:48:58 +0000 Deseret News Friday, November 1, 2002 Book of Mormon coming to silver screen Filmmakers plan a series of adaptations of the book's stories By Jeff Vice Deseret News movie critic If all goes as planned, the recent spate of Mormon movies may be joined in theaters next year by _the_ Mormon movie. Filmmakers held a press conference Tuesday to announce the start of production on "The Book of Mormon Movie, Volume 1," the first of a series of ambitious feature-film adaptations of stories from the book of scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. But don't look for movie stars to play the leads, filmmaker Gary Rogers says. "I think a celebrity would actually detract," Rogers said. "Tom Cruise playing Nephi or Jack Nicholson playing Lehi just wouldn't work. They bring too much baggage with them, not to mention their enormous price tag. "The Book of Mormon is the draw here, not the actors." Rogers, a veteran in the television industry, has written a script and will direct the first movie, which he said was inspired by Cecil B. De Mille's Oscar-winning 1956 version of "The Ten Commandments." "Stories found throughout the Book of Mormon are among the greatest stories ever told," Rogers said. "Now for the first time, you will be able to see these great stories come to life in an epic, multimillion-dollar motion picture on the silver screen." Rogers said his objective is to not only produce a film that is "true to the book," but one that also has "great entertainment value" and will leave the viewer with a profound desire to read the source material. It will be the first "volume" in a series of movies that will cover events recorded in the books of Nephi. Still, he acknowledged that it is a risky venture. "Several people have said to me that this is career suicide; 12 million people have read the book and already have a film in mind." But, he added, "Just as many people have told me that they have been waiting their whole life for this movie." The funding for the production is already in place. Rogers, the founder of International Television Productions, recently sold that company to devote his attention full time to producing "The Book of Mormon Movie." He has also recruited independent financing. In addition to announcing the production, Rogers held the news conference to announce an open casting session for the movie in the Salt Lake Hilton Hotel on Saturday from 9 a.m.-5 p.m. Casting requirements can be found on Rogers' Web site at www.bookofmormonmovie.com or by calling 557-3515. The score for the film will be composed by Robert C. Bowden, former musical director of the Mormon Youth Symphony and Chorus and former associate conductor of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Plans are for Bowden to conduct the London Symphony Orchestra for the film's soundtrack, the same orchestra used by Oscar-winning composer John Williams for the "Star Wars" scores. Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company _________________________________________________________________ Broadband?=A0Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.=20 http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LDS Film Festival 2002 (by way of Jonathan Langford ) Subject: [AML] LDS Film Festival Program & Finalists Date: 05 Nov 2002 23:59:00 -0600 MAILBOX NEWSLETTER #8/2002 http://www.ldsbox.com feedback@ldsbox.com GET READY FOR THE 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002 NOVEMBER 13-16 | PROVO CITY LIBRARY IN THIS ISSUE: 1. FESTIVAL PROGRAM PROMISES BIGGEST LDS FILM EVENT IN HISTORY 2. GET READY FOR THE 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING MARATHON 3. FINALISTS FOR FILM AND SCREENPLAY COMPETITION SELECTED 4. PRE-FESTIVAL SCREENINGS THIS WEEK AT BYU IDAHO 1. FESTIVAL PROGRAM PROMISES BIGGEST LDS FILM EVENT IN HISTORY The 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002 will take place November 13-16 at the historic Provo City Library. The festival program includes screenings of over 50 short films and documentaries, many Q&A's with the filmmakers, a dozen FILMMAKER'S PRESENTATIONS and workshops, a 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING-MARATHON, an LDS FILM FORUM with presentations by LDS scholars and a panel discussion. This is the biggest LDS film event in history. Don't miss it! Invited guests include Kurt Hale and Dave Hunter ("Singles Ward," "The RM"), Adam Anderegg and Micah Merrill ("Charly"), Lee B. Groberg ("Sacred Stone: The Temple at Nauvoo"), Dean Hale (Distributor of "God's Army," "The Other Side of Heaven"), Ryan Little ("Out of Step"), Gary Rogers ("Book of Mormon Movie"), Nathan Smith Jones ("The Work and the Story"), and many, many more. The theme of the 2ND LDS FILM FORUM is "Fantasy and Reality in LDS Media." Five presenters have been invited to discuss the roles of reality and fantasy in LDS media past, present, and future. The presentations are followed by a panel discussion about "The LDS Cinematic Audience." The panel examines the nature of the LDS film audience: exactly who and where they are, what it is that they "want," and what further steps may be necessary to truly establish an audience and, therefore, an identity for "LDS cinema." For an outline of the festival program go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php 2. GET READY FOR THE 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING MARATHON The LDS FILM FESTIVAL is launching its first 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING MARATHON. Get together with a group of friends and be part of this exhilarating competition. We have slightly changed the time and date for this event. On Wednesday, November 13, at 10.30 a.m. you will receive a theme for a short film, and on Thursday, November 14, no later than 10.30 a.m. you hand in your finished film. That same evening your film will be screened and judged at the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL. You will be allowed to use any equipment of your choice. You have only 24 hours to write, shoot and edit your film. Your finished film can be no longer than 5 minutes. No more than five people (cast and crew) per group will be allowed to take part. All films must be completely original. The entry fee is $ 20.00 per participating group. All participants contribute to the prize money that will be awarded to the winner of the 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING-MARATHON. The best film will also be part of the "BEST OF 2002" program and tour around the world. This is your chance to become an accomplished filmmaker in 24-hours... More rules and regulations regarding the 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING-MARATHON will be announced shortly. Please email us at feedback@ldsbox.com, if you are interested in participating. 3. FINALISTS FOR FILM AND SCREENPLAY COMPETITION SELECTED 36 short films have been selected as finalists for the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002. Four competition programs including the long awaited Female Filmmakers program will be screened during the festival. The very best films will be selected by both a jury and the audience for the "BEST OF 2002" program, which will be screened on Saturday, November 16. The screenplay competition will now be divided into two separate competitions - a short scripts competition and a feature scripts competition. Due to a generous donation by R. Don Oscarson we were able to raise the awards money to $ 2,600.00. Don is a strong supporter of young LDS artists. We were overwhelmed by this year's entries in both the screenplay and film competition. The selection of the finalists was not an easy task. Some films barely didn't make it into the festival due to time and space constraints. We encourage everyone to keep making films that matter. To view the finalists for this year's festival competition, click on one of the following links: Film Finalists 2002: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist1.php Short Script Finalists 2002: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist2.php Feature Script Finalists 2002: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist3.php 4. PRE-FESTIVAL SCREENINGS THIS WEEK AT BYU IDAHO On invitation of the theatre department, the LDS Film Festival will visit BYU-Idaho November 8 and 9 to present finalists of this year's and last year's festival program. Two 2-hour screenings are scheduled. Additionally, workshops and presentations are planned for Saturday, November 9. Participating filmmakers are Bryan Lefler (USA), Andrew Black (Scotland), Jason Faller (Canada), Jason Conforto (USA), Magnus Henriksen (Norway) and Christian Vuissa (Austria). They will answer audience questions and prepare workshops and presentations for those interested in the filmmaking process. You either signed up for our newsletter or were recommended to us by a friend. If you would like to unsubscribe from future LDSBOX mailings, simply reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the subject line. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kimheuston@aol.com Subject: [AML] Epiphanies Date: 04 Nov 2002 09:28:46 -0500 Greetings, friends. I am writing a novel about Dante's daughter and in the course of my wanderings have found many references to moments of grace during which an individual glimpses the workings of the world and has a sense that all is well. Reynolds Price, C. S. Lewis, Thomas Merton and many others seem to have experienced episodes like this. Have any of you? Or do you know of someone who as who might be willing to explore it with me? Thanks. Kimberley Heuston -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amelia Parkin" Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 04 Nov 2002 14:15:27 -0500 Fred Pinnegar said: "I didn't say that BYU was open. My point was that the concept of academic freedom is an illusion. The state school serves the interests of the state, and the church school serves the interests of the church." I started this whole thread with my comments about BYU in regards to Mormon culture likes and dislikes. I commented in that thread that I felt that BYU was governed by a sense of fear. I maintain that it is. And in response to Fred's comment (above), I would absolutely agree. My problem is that I don't believe that BYU serves the real interests of the church. I think that too many professors and too many students perceive the interests of the church to be retaining people in membership and that this is accomplished by refusing to explore ideas or theories that could threaten someone's testimony--by avoiding the "dangerous" territories of secular learning. Yes, feminism is taught at BYU. so is Marxism, psychoanalytic theory, reader response theory, deconstruction, structuralism, and most any "ism" you can think of (I'm talking about the English departmet since that is where my experience was and since that is what Fred discussed in some of his posts). There are some "isms" that are avoided (like queer theory, which, contrary to some people's opinions, has a lot ot offer other than support for homosexuality). Although these controversial ideas are discussed, I don't think they are discussed fully (I'm speaking from my own experience here--both at BYU and at other schools). I think that there are parts that are left untouched. there are texts, both theoretical and literary, that are not taught because their subject matter is not acceptable. I find that problematic. And I find that contrary to the interests of the church. We are supposed to seek after things that are beautiful. But we are also supposed to seek after things that are true. Sometimes truth brings with it ugliness. There is no avoiding that. And I think understanding truth, even with its sometimes dark underbelly, helps us understand the world and the Gospel better. I find avoidance of certain ideas because of a fear of causing a student to question the gospel too closely or in such a way that they may walk away from it to be contrary to the interests of the church. We are taught in the NT that fear and love cannot coexist. If BYU were truly in line with the interests of the church, the students and the faculty there would not fear loss of testimony. they would understand that all truth can withstand questioning. and that there are truths other than those we normally associate with the gospel that we whould pursue. John Remy had some questions. first "Must one be an active, temple-recommend wielding member to teach at BYU? Are there examples of non-LDS tenured professors at BYU? (I honestly don't know.)" There are examples of non-LDS tenured professors at BYU. One of my best friends is one of them. But if you are a member of the church and are teaching at BYU, you are to have a current temple recommend or (if unendowed) be worthy to have one. This is actually connected to one of my objections to BYU as an institution. I've looked at their application to teach (I was looking into teaching in their freshman comp program while I was waiting to go back to grad school). They seem to care far more about "worthiness" than about qualifications to teach. The vast majority of their application was about whether or not I am a temple recommend holding, active member of the church than about my experience teaching, my education, etc., etc. For an institution of higher education (regardless of whether it be a private, religious institution or a state-sponsored school), I find that reprehensible. These two qualities should at the very least be equal. I personally feel that even in a religious institution one's professional qualifications are more important than one's religious qualifications. Here's John again: "Also, are there differences for how tenure works at BYU and in public universities? I am assuming that the concept of tenure is to protect the professor's job while allowing them academic freedom. Can you be fired for publishing opinions/reasearch that the Church might leadership frown upon (or does losing a temple recommend result in the loss of a tenured position)?" yes, a BYU professor can be terminated for expressing opinions that are allegedly contrary to teachings or opinions of the church. There is lots of wiggle room there. I can think of a lot of different opinions that are perhaps not acceptable to some church leaders but that could be expressed without causing a professor to lose his or her job. But there are certain hot topics that would probably lead to termination (and i think they are probably very politically motivated, too). There are also instances where leaders objected to the content of creative works which led to termination of professors' jobs. Of course, I'm not party to the committees who make such decisions and all of my information is based on heresay so perhaps I'm wrong. But I do know that professors can lose their jobs for things they have said or written that are contrary to the church. and i do believe that losing a temple recommend can result in losing a tenured position. John again: "Can professors be fired from secular universities for similar ideological reasons?" In theory, no. In theory, a professor at a state school, for instance, can write and say just about anything they want to without risking their job. they might make things uncomfortable for themselves, but usually they won't lose their jobs. There are probably ways around this and I'm sure it's happened, but I think it's more difficult than it would be at BYU. At BYU, the powers that be are the powers that be. There's no getting around that. Public institutions are a little more evenly keeled than that. One day while I was an undergrad at BYU, I ran into an acquaintance in the CougarEat. We had a lit class together that semester and she and I started talking. I had applied to grad school and she was asking about my plans. she asked if i would ever teach at BYU. I told her no and, when she asked why, I said that I didn't want my spirituality to become political. Her response was to make my politics spiritual. It made me mad because it was so flippant and it assumed that I was not letting my spirituality affect all areas of my life. I honestly don't want my spirituality to become political, although my politics are most definitely influenced by my spiritual beliefs. One of the things I value most about Mormonism is that it allows me to be the final authority on my spiritual well-being. I am taught principles and then left to live my life in accordance with them to the best of my ability. the very last question we're asked when we go to a temple recommend interview is whether we consider ourselves worthy to enter the house of the lord. i think it's the most important question we're ever asked about our spirituality. I object to anyone, no matter who they are, applying a pat definition of what is or is not spiritual to my spiritual life. I will not let my employment be in any way determined by such a situation. I find it utterly unaccaptable and not in line with the principles or the interests of the church. amelia parkin _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JLTyner Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 04 Nov 2002 19:32:12 -0800 If that's the case, I bought a bootleg copy of 'Legacy' at my local LDS bookstore. ;-) The video has been out for some time, so if there were problems, they were resolved. However, I can't think what the problems would be specifically. Usually a SAG actor gets paid for the job and that's it unless residuals have been previously negotiated to my knowledge. I think that's an ongoing fight SAG has with securing rights concerning videos. I would also guess the Church tends to be careful about things being hammered out before shooting starts to avoid such entanglements, but I have no personal knowledge concerning 'Legacy' so someone who actually knows would have to address that issue. I would also tend to agree with Thom on the whole project probably being underfunded, ergo greatly impacting the probable quality of the finished product. Which might bring us back to the question of how to get decent funding for "Mormon Cinema" if we hope to watch it grow and improve. I understand Peter's frustrations with unions, but since it's an industry town out here, we just accept that they are part of the process. I can't remember however, ever seeing a union rep on set telling a writer or director what to do, or demanding certain conditions be met and sometimes I wish that had been the case, especially where children on set are concerned. They get to pay the same union dues the adult actors do. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kumiko" Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] More Mormon Movies Date: 04 Nov 2002 22:58:21 -0600 Andrew Hall: >Mary Jane Jones, Richard Dutcher, Preston, can you correct any of my figures? The table you presented is mostly correct, although a few items could be updated... Notably, the final box office figure for "Brigham City" was $905,073. The best budget estimate I have for Brigham City is $900,000. It is not our intention that this data be difficult to obtain. Andrew may have missed the LDSFilm.com summary page for box office gross and budget data, located at: http://www.ldsfilm.com/lds_box.html Some of your other budget figures are close, but could be improved slightly. Most of the budget figures you see for LDS-themed feature films on the page at http://www.ldsfilm.com/lds_box.html were given to us directly by the producers. For some of these we have breakdowns for production budget vs. P & A (prints and advertising). We update this page each Monday evening or Tuesday when new data is available from EDI. Preston -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JLTyner Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops/Novel Fantasies Date: 04 Nov 2002 22:42:51 -0800 How very much I would like to see that scene too. Or a scene where the battered spouse or children refuse to sustain him. Or the emotionally abused spouse of a control freak shakily raises their hand. Or the people cheated by this person in business dealings. I'd like to see these things perhaps with all my heart. Or any number of scenarios. Or perhaps at some point where everyone in the congregation can think of something they have done as well, harrowed up in their own memories of the things they have done and should not have or worse, the things they should have and did not. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Cobabe" Subject: [AML] Re: Single Bishops Date: 05 Nov 2002 01:52:23 -0500 An alternative scenario, freely adapted from an earlier screenplay-- A Stake President offers a woman to be sustained as the stake Relief Society President. Many in the congregation are aware that she habitually treats her husband and her children in a harsh and abusive manner. It can hardly be a secret when her raging screams are heard thoughout the neighborhood on so many late nights. Notwithstanding this, hands are raised in unanimous agreement. "Any opposed?" Silence. The Stake President quickly finishes his business. As the meeting closes, the woman is all smiles. She's been through this kind of thing before, many times, and is pleased that her popularity will so effectively cover a multitude of sins. Of course, everyone knows that women are never abusers of children. Jim Cobabe jcobabe@hotmail.com http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor= =20 less. _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.=A0 Join now!=20 http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN: _Peculiarities_ (Review) Date: 05 Nov 2002 01:05:33 -0700 As it turns out, our humble moderator altered the heading I first sent in with my original post, which listed "(review...sort of)" in the subject line. I didn't really write a review so much as a reader response piece, an attempt to figure out what I thought of Eric's play by writing it down (an exercise that didn't really succeed in that primary purpose, btw; I still don't quite know what I think of the play). Ben Christensen wrote: > I also enjoyed the universality of _Peculiarities_. I've never gotten > married and divorced over the weekend only so I could have sex, I've never > been a 23-year-old girl despairing because I'm not yet married, I've never > had NCMO with anyone, and I've never been in a near-adulterous situation, > but I could still relate to the emotions portrayed. In that sense, the play > was very real to me. My brother, who is a very-much-not-sexually-repressed > atheist, also saw the play and identified with the emotions of the > characters--particularly the loneliness and the feeling of being manipulated > by someone else. I didn't see the universality of it. Specific reality, perhaps; but I didn't see universality. Different strokes, I guess. As it turns out I've experienced a number of NCMOs (without the self-loathing or ugly codependence), had considered the Tahoe idea (but never found a partner willing or cynical enough to spring it on; ah the difficulties of being an unattractive man at BYU), left BYU as a single man with the realization that I would probably die a virgin (while I came to accept the fact, I can't claim that I was ever at peace with it), and have felt enormous guilt for reaching a level of deep emotional intimacy (though never physical intimacy) with a woman who was not my wife. Theoretically I'm four-for-four in either direct or near experience with each of the vignettes. Yet I still felt ambivalent at the end. Not angry. Not attacked or marginalized or misunderstood. Just unengaged. Eric says he didn't want to either ask or answer questions with _Peculiarities,_ that all he wanted to do was depict the very real situations he saw every day. That was his choice as an author, but I still have the right to ask why he chose to only depict rather than expand. The result of his absolutely legitimate artistic choice was my ambivalence as an individual viewer. I can't argue whether he should have done it differently, but I can offer my own viewpoint on how effective the result was for me. I suppose this is one of those fundamental questions of the purposes for story. Some say that a story should be more than a mirror of reality, that it should create a framework for thoughtful consideration that reality often fails to give us and thus should act as a sort of super-experience. Some say all stories present a viewpoint--aka an argument--even if that viewpoint is that the world is absurd or that meaning can only be found in the mind of the reader/viewer. Some say that any attempt to impose either an argument or an interpretation on a story is to manipulate events to become little more than propoganda or artistically wrought polemic. If I had to pick a camp for myself, I guess it would be the middle one--that every story intends to communicate a viewpoint; now the question is how well that viewpoint is presented, and how honestly and elegantly it's delivered. For me as a single, non-representative viewer, my reaction was that I thought the play was honestly and elegantly delivered, but that I wasn't sure what viewpoint it was offering. To my mind the play offered no viewpoint; it merely illustrated some kinds of true relationships with style and wit and snappy dialog. As I've thought about it I guess my disappointment comes because I feel like Eric pulled his punches in _Peculiarities,_ and I'm not sure why. I've come to expect Eric's stories to aggressively pursue a specific question. I listened to a staged reading of his play-in-progress, _Mount Verson,_ three days prior to seeing _Peculiarities_ and was treated to a vigorous argument about the politics of racial equity that had me squirming in my seat for over an hour and questioning all my own assumptions. _Gadianton_ directly questioned the morality of certain kinds of business decisions, and _Singled Out_ asked some very pointed questions about how people in an allegedly enlightened culture (mis)treat each other. So the lack of pointed questions (for me, at least) was a fairly strong jarring of my expectations and I couldn't help but wonder why he chose such a different mode of presentation here. There's nothing wrong with that; every artist grows and changes and experiments. But where I came in expecting a difficult exploration of causes and effects and results, I saw instead four vignettes related by theme but otherwise making few arguments for or against anything (other than depicting four sad and at least partially damaged couples). I expected something different than I got. What I got was well done, but dissatisfying to me as an individual consumer. Not a criticism of either craft or craftsman; just one viewer's observations offered as counterpoint to the numerous positive reviews he's gotten here on this list. One point of loyal dissent, as it were. > Obviously, not everyone will identify with the play, but > the affected audience extends far beyond sexually repressed single BYU > students. I admit freely that part of the reason I wrote my review was to troll for responses. I want people to argue, to tell me that I missed the very obvious questions Eric explored--then tell me in clear terms what those questions were so I can rethink my response. I like, admire, and respect Eric as both a person and an artist. But he missed me on this one. I'm looking for excuses to change my ambivalence to embarrassed recognition (doh! it was so *obvious*) followed by profuse apology. Otherwise, I wrote to ask some general questions--and hear the answers. Thank you for your response. I hope others will add their bits as well. Scott Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] More Mormon Movies Date: 04 Nov 2002 10:00:49 -0700 Andrew Hall wrote: > What do you film-type people think? Which [Book of Mormon film] do you have > higher expectations for? I expect to puke at both of them. Neither sounds like it will be anything like how I think a Book of Mormon movie should be. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops Date: 04 Nov 2002 10:21:53 -0700 Kathy Fowkes wrote: > Sordid details of reality. This post kind of stayed with me until I saw this > scene in my mind that I would like *very much* to see in an LDS novel. A > Stake President offers a man to be sustained as the new bishop of a ward. > Hands go up in agreement. "Any opposed?" And first one, then a second hand > goes up, slowly, then more determinedly in the first rows of the middle > section. The hands belong to the new 'bishop''s teenage daughters. [etc.] I absolutely love this scene. I'm storing it in my psyche, and in about three weeks, I'll have completely forgotten its origin and start believing it was original with me. Then I'll be able to write it into a novel and you'll get your wish. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience Date: 05 Nov 2002 07:56:37 -0500 It is my understanding that history has been being rewritten by the victors since time began. Tracie Laulusa ----- Original Message ----- > > Did the governments of the world come up with the ideas to rewrite history > promoting their own versions of the story, or did Orwell give them the idea? -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cathrynlane@cs.com Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:28:29 EST Why do we even need this movie? This thread and the parallel whining on the list about the lack of popular response from members of the Church to movies/books/plays that are more "difficult" convince me that what we are really up against is a general illiteracy of our greater society. Sadly, I think there is a fairly large group of people who do wish that instead of being asked to read the Book of Mormon they could watch the video. (Even though BOM is accessible to a 4th grade reading level) I don't see this as a problem affecting just church members. Mormons are not uniquely disinclined to read. I'm not certain that we can ever obtain a society where the majority want to read anything (a mystery, a romance), never mind wanting to read something challenging. The idea of alternative publishing options is a bright hope to obtaining copies of works of art that may not be popular enough to interest a mainstream publisher. In the meantime I make a living writing a terrific newsletter for a commercial property management company. On a personal LDS note, I can see even the worst BOM movie being praised in Sunday School as having "made me finally have a testimony of the Book of Mormon." (It's already been done with cartoon videos for children but most adults feel a little embarrassed confessing that what they know about he BOM they learned watching their child's video.) Cathryn Lane -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 05 Nov 2002 09:08:58 -0700 >There are two non-LDS full professors in the psychology department. I >believe that non-LDS faculty are held to pretty much the same >standards as >the rest of the faculty. Not exactly. They don't have to pay tithing or hold a temple recommend. In fact, they don't have to attend Church at all. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] More Mormon Movies Date: 05 Nov 2002 09:31:21 -0700 Andrew asked a great question: >What do you film-type people think? Which one do you have >higher expectations for? Looking at the people involved, the >Voice from the Dust project looks like it will be more >professional. Neither group strikes me as particularly >creative, however. To me, this is a very easy question. Neil Newell is a fine writer. Peter = Johnson is a respected professional director. Reed Smoot is a superb DP. = That team has a chance to make a very interesting film. Given the names = attached, I suspect that it will be fairly traditionally Hollywood in = approach, but it should look great, and the story has a chance to be told = engagingly. =20 The Gary Rogers team has, as far as I can see, nothing to recommend it. = I'd love to proven wrong; maybe Gary Rogers is Peter Jackson and we've = just never known it. But it seems to me likely to be embarrassingly = amateurish. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim and Laurel" Subject: [AML] AML Conference Question Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:30:07 -0700 I did not get to the conference till after lunch, but got an email from a friend this morning asking me "what were the names of the two people who spoke about submitting to Bookcraft and another LDS publisher" (she couldn't remember the name of it, but it wasn't Horizon.) If that question makes sense, can anyone that was there during lunch fill me in so I can get back to her? Thanks! Laurel Brady -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More Date: 05 Nov 2002 11:26:33 -0600 Hello Everyone, I wanted to post and say first, how terrific it was to meet so many of you at the writer's conference on Saturday, and put faces to names in the flesh. We had a small but fun dinner Friday night at Sizzler. (I *am* sorry about the late notice on that.) Thank you for inviting me to come out. It was very cool to actually attend. It's been a LONG time since I visited Utah. I've lived in Missouri for ten years, and my last very short trip out to the West was four years ago. It was very interesting to me--as somewhat of an "outsider"--to listen to some of the things Eric and Jeff had to say in their discussion group on Art and Audience. As I sat and pondered on what they were both saying, an idea percolated that I hope I can put into words properly. First, the way they both described some of Mormon culture seemed to fit the basic description of a dysfunctional family. . . . Something that is full of past secrets nobody wants to talk about. Present secrets and sins nobody wants discovered. An attitude of covering up and wanting to "always look our best." A fear of being found out for less than perfect. Are we, indeed, suffering from a cultural dysfunction that needs to be healed? Can we, as artists, faciliate that process, and how? I think the answer is yes, by being honest about ourselves. To get to the subject line of this post. . . (I didn't want to speak up too much Saturday since I'd pretty much used up my word quota.) As Jeff talked about his surprisingly wonderful time at an Evangelical Christian service (BTW, I'd have given a LOT to have been there, very cool), I remembered having a similar spiritually uplifting experience at my sister-in-law's worship service in Seattle. And also being surprised by the beautiful spirit there. Then realizing that duh, of course we don't have a monopoly on the Spirit. And man, we could use a little of the sincerity and honest WORSHIP in our meetings that they have. There is a basic difference between Them and Us. In my opinion, they exhibit a willingness to be humble enough to admit that we're all sinners, that we *are* in need of God's grace, and our desperate need for the Savior to heal us--things we do not openly show one another too often. The discussion went from there to Eric's admitting, yes, he would be worried what non-members might think of a play such as his Peculiarities, even though the non-member response to LaBute's "Bash" was not the half-expected "Oh, all Mormons are gay bashers" but a more thoughtful, "I wonder what's inside me," introspective type of response. I think you'd be surprised what non-members actually think of us. It's much more positive and encouraging than you know. I think Utahns oughta leave the state more often to find this out. Work outside Utah for at least a five-year stint Abroad--as in, some other state in the Union (and no, Idaho doesn't count--take a risk.) No, your 2-year mission doesn't count. Regular work. (And while you're at it, stop calling Every-Location-But-Utah "the mission field." That alone is a very excluding term, isn't it, and hardly accurate??) Now, I'm not offended in the least by any of this stuff--I just think it's funny. As in weird *and* humorous. I have lived in that "mission field" my entire life except for four years attending BYU. Most of my friends growing up were not Mormons, and I still have several close friends who are of other faiths. Let me just say that getting to know our dear 'Gentile' friends simply for who they are (unlike Jeff's Amway friend: as prospective distributors, giving up when the prospects don't come around to our way of thinking) is a marvelous blessing. Y'all should try it. Here's a heretical idea. Make some nonmember friends without involving the missionaries. Just to be friends. Get to know each other. I'm recommending this, along with my subject line, because I think that many of us--even out here in that great big "mission field"--don't socialize enough with others to understand in even a miniscule way what those others really think of us. They are much less harsh than you might think. The friends I know, anyway. It's very good, Out There, for us right now. It is my hope that in the near future we LDS artists will be able to bag the agenda completely (of looking good, worrying about being good missionaries) and be allowed by the production and publishing companies in Utah *and* New York, to tell true stories--things as they really are--without being either anti-Mormon expose's or whitewashed sweetness. I've heard the comment from more than one non-member who said they "didn't think they could be *that* good." If we debunk the myth--that we're so much better behaved than all the other good people in the world--and that IS a myth--how much *more* honest good might we be able to do? I hope to see more movies like Brigham City. I hope to see more art of all mediums where Mormons are presented in an accurate light. I'm tired of inaccurate portrayals. I could probably write a Catholic character in confession and get it darn close to accurate, though I've never been Catholic, because of the very familiarity with the customs and trappings of Catholicism. I'd like to see enough saturation of Mormon characters everywhere that a non-LDS writer could actually get us straight. Wouldn't that be great? Some viewers worried over scenes in Dutcher's work that show a baptism or a priesthood blessing--as in, "what will people think?" Not me. This is silly. What will they think? They'll think, "So *this* is what Mormons do." Why *not* represent a fictional sacrament meeting? If we show these things more often, more openly, we will not be such a mystery. That pointless mysteriousness is what leads people to think we're a cult rather than a religion. They'll learn, "Sacrament, that's like Communion, right?" Right. And, "So that's how you baptize people. Okay, I get it." Right again. Without having the pressure of a missionary at their side saying "So. . . how did you like the service?" Worrying about what people will think is pointless. Just write and be true. Good things will happen if we do. I'm sure of it. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" Subject: RE: [AML] Voice from the Dust: Book of Mormon Movie Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:35:34 -0700 Again, to be clear and keep the record straight, there are TWO (2) Book of Mormon Movies in various stages of preproduction currently. One is the DeVore/Johnson production - with script by Neil Newell - projected release in late 2003. This is NOT the production which had a casting call this past weekend. The other production (the one currently casting) is the Rogers production which will be released before the other one - projected release in Spring 2003. Thomas ---------------------------- "Writing the melody is the easy part .... But then, it's what you do with it. That's the skill, that's the art, that's what makes a great film score." - Danny Elfman, Composer Contact info: Thomas C. Baggaley Composer 9446 Fox Hunt Drive Sandy, Utah 84092 Tel: (801) 942-3580 E-mail: thomas@baggaleymusic.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 05 Nov 2002 10:42:25 -0700 Again, in the interest of accuracy, the Book of Mormon Movie site no longer states that only non-SAG actors will be used. Apparently, it appears that the production team has rethought this requirement. Thomas ---------------------------- "Of course, there should be a structure, an architecture to any score. It's not a piece here and a piece there. It has to be thought out. You can't approach each cue as a separate piece of music." - Jerry Goldsmith, composer Contact info: Thomas C. Baggaley Composer 9446 Fox Hunt Drive Sandy, Utah 84092 Tel: (801) 942-3580 E-mail: thomas@baggaleymusic.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 05 Nov 2002 12:44:05 -0700 ___ Eric ___ | It gets better. "We only want good looking people": in other | words, we plan to be as sexist as Hollywood at its worst,and | also historicity be damned. ___ I'm not following you. I can see why you personally may wish that actors took the appearance of "regular folk." However clearly you are in the minority since most prefer public figures in entertainment to be physically attractive. And if a movie wants to make money they have to take that into consideration. I think it more of an American thing, since you see more "ugly or regular" people in European productions. However what I can't fathom is how this is sexist. Unless you are suggesting that the reason leading men like Brad Pitt, George Clooney, or so forth get cast is because of the desires of heterosexual men. . . I mean if guys looked regular but women all looked like models, I might agree. However guys typically look just as good as women. Further you seem to be tying historicity into how closely the actors look the figures portrayed. The only problem with this in a Book of Mormon production is that *no one* knows what they look like. There are various speculations, such as Sorenson's. But that's all they are. Further I don't see why an actor has to look like the figure unless it is a figure who everyone recognizes (such as a biopic of a modern, oft photographed figure). The only other exception might be if some physical characteristic is essential for the character. (i.e. Napoleon's height) ___ Eric ___ | Prediction: their script is a first-draft, by non-writers. | Their director maybe has done a couple of local commercials. ___ My roommate works in the film business and he said most of the names were well known from various church productions and were the top in that avenue of film. (And of course many work on non-Mormon productions as well, ranging from small films or commercials) That's not to say it will be a good movie. I'm a tad dubious. But I'm not sure all these attacks are fair. (And definitely not informed) [Clark Goble] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: [AML] MARTINDALE, _Brother Brigham_ (Review) Date: 05 Nov 2002 08:41:29 -0800 Review ====== Title: Brother Brigham Author: D. Michael Martindale Publisher: unpublished manuscript Year Published: N/A Number of Pages: 199 Binding: N/A ISBN: N/A Price: N/A Reviewed by Kim Madsen I was whining on the list a few weeks ago about the difficulty of finding quality literature for my LDS bookgroup. I've received many suggestions from members of the AML list, directing me towards promising titles. Unfortunately, most of them are either out of print or nearly impossible to find. That makes it very challenging for 10 women to scrounge enough books at the public libraries to share, or barring that, hunt them down from inconveniently located (for us) booksellers. The mainstream places like Deseret Book, Seagull, Barnes and Nobel, are packed with insipid formula novels but very few challenging, mature or literary LDS-themed works. Shortly after my latest rant, D. Michael Martindale, an AML list member, contacted me off list and offered his unpublished manuscript to our group. We thought it would be interesting to have a dialogue with an author over a work-in-progress...which I guess you can consider anything that's unpublished. Always time to tweak before it hits print, eh? I had read a review of the work on the list by, I believe, Jeff Needle, but as I checked the list archives for the review I couldn't find it there. I may be wrong on that point. Maybe it wasn't in the archive because this is an unpublished (as of yet, hopefully) manuscript. However, the comment that stands out in my mind from that review: BROTHER BRIGHAM is so different, where would it find a home? When I received the manuscript from Michael in electronic form, I printed out all 199 pages and took them to a copy center. We've made an explicit agreement with the author that all copies will be returned to him at the end of the one month reading period and the bookgroup discussion. He was generous to share the work with us; participating more intimately like this in the writing/publishing process will be a real learning experience for our group. They were willing to pay about $17 each for the manuscript copies, as we spend about that each month for whatever book we're reading. We just won't get to keep this one. And that's ok too, as shelf space is at a premium with most of us anyway. It's a good trade-off for the opportunity to participate with an author. Now that I've explained how I came to be writing a review of an unpublished work for the list, my first impression is that D. Michael Martindale is breaking new ground here. He has written a Mormon horror novel. I know, I know, you're thinking that O. Scott Card has been there done that, particularly in his LOST BOYS novel. I've read everything Card has written, and as a big fan, purchase it in hardback (my contribution to a writer's career). But I still think Martindale's BROTHER BRIGHAM moves more into the Stephen King side of horror, and that it's a daring move for an LDS author. In brief, the protagonist, Cory Horace Young, third generation descendant of Brigham Young, has been indoctrinated/instructed his entire life as to his unique nature and to find his "special mission" in life. As the book opens he's somewhat ambivalent about where his life has taken him--the normal Mormon road of mission, college, marriage, struggling young father trying to support a family financially and emotionally. Martindale has created a likeable enough character, but not particularly strong or outstanding in anyway. This becomes central to the story. He's an average Joe, doing average things, until something decidedly NOT average happens to him, but which has historical precedents in the LDS faith. He begins having visions of Brigham Young, who has been sent by God to reinstate plural marriage within the church. Cory Horace is told that God is having to take the route of finding a replacement prophet outside the church's power structure, as the current prophet and all of his apostles have been "led astray" and refuse to follow God's instructions regarding celestial marriage. I was compelled to read the book, feeling like Sean Connery's character, William Forrester, in FINDING FORRESTER, when he scrawls a note to a budding writer--"where are you taking me?". The book is a quick read, not presuming to literary depth, but rather driven by plot and character. It's a fascinating story. Martindale has taken a step back from Mormon beliefs in visions, revelations and cultural myth and asked "what if?". He paints a scenario at once believable and shudderingly delusional. As a reader you can't quite figure out which side of the fence you're one. At first you find yourself wondering if the naive, sincere Cory Horace Young, is really having the visions we see him have. Is Brigham Young really appearing to him as an emissary from God? Or is C.H., as he likes to think of himself, mentally ill? There is nothing in his character to support that supposition, so we travel a bit further with the author, watching Cory's life unravel as he follows the instructions of his supernatural advisor. Martindale convincingly explores how this impacts Cory's wife, his co-workers, even his babysitter. Young's wife, Danielle, compares herself to Emma and struggles with her faith, even after receiving a vision of her own. Is it a Laman and Lemulesque side of her, or is her heart trying to tell her something? By the end of the book there is an escalation in the number of visions received by various characters which adds to the mounting tension...but to discuss it further would give away the essentials that make the climactic moments so horrifying. The thing that makes this book real, and that will challenge some LDS readers, is the focus on the intimate physical relationships of marriage. How can you discuss the ramifications of plural marriage without taking a candid look at sex, and yet that what Mormons do all the time when the discuss the history of polygamy in the church. Martindale takes it out, examines it under the harsh light of day, the dim illumination of candle glow and even by starlight. As opposed to most novels that have sex as a major theme, I was made to feel neither like a voyuer, as is erotica's goal, nor like a saccharine-drenched romantic as in most bodice rippers. The focus is not on the action, but rather on the conflicted feelings of any participants. It was very well handled, but the book would definitely have a PG-13 rating at least. Maybe that's why concern was expressed as to what publisher would look at it. There is one thing about the sex in the book that bothered me, and that was the "loose woman" character, Shelia. Twice in the course of the book, Shelia is described as masturbating. I am not sure it is the act that bothers me so much, or if I just can't believe her behavior as something a woman would do--even one as hardened as the author paints this character to be. something doesn't ring true in those scenes to me...or maybe it just goes too far for my sensibilities. That is the one point where I as a reader said "OK this is a man writing this, and I see him behind the scenes". For me, that interrupted the dream. It will be interesting to hear further feedback on this point at my bookgroup in a couple of weeks. Maybe the whole thing would work if it were left a little more "told" and less "shown". Those were the only two times the writer crossed the line for me. I am just sorry for the rest of you that you won't have access to buying the book and reading it. Not only is it a great horror story, it explores all kinds of deep LDS fears--theft of temple recommends, manipulations of records, true visions, where is the line when a woman questions the "righteous preisthood holder" in her life, the power of discernment and many others. It's a book I would recommend to all adult readers. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Cobabe" Subject: [AML] Broken Promises (was: Sealings) Date: 05 Nov 2002 14:44:50 -0500 It seems rather far-fetched to be considering the implications of a temple= =20 sealing in the context of a failed marriage. I am supposing that in this=20 case a temple sealing is not much more significant than a civil marriage. It= =20 simply represents a potential that we failed to develop. There is no promise= =20 of lasting implications from such a relationship. To imagine that there=20 would be contradicts our gospel teachings regarding the importance of=20 preparation in this life. This life is the time to prepare to meet God,=20 including the forging of family and marriage bonds. Divine authoritiy will= =20 not force us to regard in eternity the covenants we discarded in time. A lot of confusion arises from attempting to imagine how famililal bonds=20 that were effectively severed in mortality will somehow be restored in the= =20 afterlife. I think it most likely that they will not be. Those who neglect= =20 or abandon such relationships here will not be any more likely or inclined= =20 to renew or continue them in the eternal worlds. Thus a civil divorce=20 terminates the spirit and intent of a temple sealing just as effectively as= =20 a cancellation by the church. Temple sealing is an ordinance with promises for the future. Looking forward to those promises can have a powerful effect on our present outlook= =20 and attitude. But it is not a magical spell. Those who lose sight of the=20 eternal perspective and compromise the potential in the here and now also=20 foreit any claim to eternal promises in that regard. Making a promise with God that we fail to keep has no more positive effect in eternity than any other broken promise. --- Jim Cobabe Jim Cobabe jcobabe@hotmail.com http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor= =20 less. _________________________________________________________________ Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.=A0 Join now!=20 http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Shameless Plug (was: Sealings) Date: 05 Nov 2002 13:29:14 -0700 Barbara, Lost Without You was released in July by Covenant, so it's available at Seagull, Deseret Book, and other places where LDS books are sold. Let me know what you think of my take on the issue! Annette Lyon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Carter Subject: RE: [AML] Getting Started with LDS Screenwriting Date: 05 Nov 2002 14:01:07 -0900 I'm really not one to talk, as I have only taken one screenwriting class and typed one short screenplay that was read by about 5 people, but, as far as I'm concerned, in my wide (four books) reading on the screenwriting issue, Robert McKee's _Story: Substance Structure and_ ... something else, is worth its weight in gold. I've read it about 10 times since buying it last year. It's especially good just for understanding the elements of plot structure. Stephen Carter Fairbanks, Alaska -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Andrea Lewis Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader Date: 05 Nov 2002 15:59:17 -0700 (MST) Lynette Jones said: >It has not been my experience that Latter-day Saints "do not want to be fo= rced=20 >to ask questions" while reading literature. There are oh so many Latter-da= y=20 >Saints who love to read "Shakespeare, Bronte and Faulkner among other grea= t=20 >writers." And there are many people out here who love to "be honest about = the=20 >ambiguity of striving for perfection in an imperfect world." On the other= =20 >hand, for a writer to cultivate an audience, takes lengthy study of one's= =20 >audience with an honest realization of what they read and what kind of liv= es=20 >they live. I definitely agree with you that there are many Latter-day Saints who enjoy= =20 reading honest and ambiguous literature from the great writers of our=20 tradition, and I admit that my over generalization of LDS readers obscured = the=20 point I was trying to make. Writers like Shakespeare and Faulkner aside,= =20 Mormon readers with only limited experience with the breadth and progress o= f=20 LDS fiction tend to be more sensitive when it comes to Mormon literature. = This=20 is an understandable reaction that comes from a desire to protect the image= of=20 those things that most identify us as a people and culture. To cultivate a= =20 larger audience for more sophisticated LDS literature, then, that audience = must=20 be willing to forsake their sensitivity and be more honest with reality. I do not mean to suggest that an audience for honest literature within the = LDS=20 arena does not exist, because I=E2=80=99d like to think that we=E2=80=99re = all a part of that=20 audience. But I do think that it requires greater honesty for casual reade= rs=20 of LDS fiction to be able to graduate to more sophisticated literature. =20 Outraged whispers in the theater when _Singles Ward_ shows girls in sleevel= ess=20 dresses, and offended defiance that fifteen-year-old girls should not and d= o=20 not kiss boys as in Carol Lynch Williams=E2=80=99 _My Angelica_, do not fac= ilitate the=20 development of an audience who can appreciate Doug Thayer the same way they= =20 appreciate Shakespeare. Writers do need to be honest about the audience to= =20 which they are writing, and readers need to be more honest to be able to jo= in=20 that audience and enjoy the greatness of our own literature along with that= of=20 the larger literary tradition. Andrea Lewis -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings Date: 06 Nov 2002 01:49:46 -0500 Barbara wrote: >I'm no longer ambiguous about the concept of plural wives. I reject it. I >may be proven wrong, but a system that treats one gender as deserving of >more privilege than the other is not consistent with the God I know. I >guess I've just seen too much "But it's different for men" excuse-making in >my life. If I had a husband who brought home some chick and told me that >he'd be sleeping with her from now on, by golly. . . . . . [bleep] Economist David Friedman, who has done groundbreaking work in applying price theory to the economics of behavior, concludes that the availability of polygamous (polygynous) relationships is actually better for women & worse for men: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_Chapter_21/PThy_Cha p_21.html Eric D. Dixon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Slaven Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience Date: 06 Nov 2002 00:16:45 -0800 > > It is my understanding that history has been being rewritten by the > victors since time began. > - ----- Original Message ----- > > > Did the governments of the world come up with the ideas to rewrite > history > > promoting their own versions of the story, or did Orwell give them > the idea? > "Early in life I noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never fired a shot hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various 'party lines'. . . . "This kind of thing is frightening to me, because it often gives me the feeling that the very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. After all, the chances are that those lies, or at any rate similar lies, will pass into history. . . . Yet, after all, *some* kind of history will be written, and after those who actually remember the war are dead, it will be universally accepted. So for all practical purposes the lie will have become truth." - George Orwell, 'Looking Back on the Spanish War', included as a postscript to my Penguin edition of _Homage to Catalonia_, pp. 234-5. Written in 1943. The archetypal example of governments attempting to rewrite history comes from 1953 (3 years after Orwell's death). Lavrenti Beria was Stalin's chief of secret police. After Stalin's death, Khrushchev et al. thought Beria would be best out of the way, so he was eliminated. Shortly thereafter, purchasers of the Great Soviet Encylopedia were sent a page with an extended article on the Bering Strait, to be pasted over the glowing article on the now-discredited Beria. But Orwell saw the beginnings of this quite a bit earlier thanks to his experiences in Spain. Robert PS Ask me about my comprehensive collection of weird Orwell quotes. ********************************************************************** Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too 'Man is that he might have joy--not guilt trips.' (Russell M. Nelson) --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.410 / Virus Database: 231 - Release Date: 2002/11/01 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 06 Nov 2002 01:08:36 -0600 At 01:44 PM 11/5/02, Clark Goble wrote: >Further I don't see why an actor has to look like the figure unless [...] some >physical characteristic is essential for the character. (i.e. >Napoleon's height) How about Frodo's (et. al.) height? Or, for a slightly less fantastic (?) example, in the comics, there are a fair number of references to the fact that Wolverine is a rather short man (5' 2", iirc). Hugh Jackman is 6' 3". However, most every fan of the comics I have heard from was quite happy with the casting of that movie, particularly that role. As I said earlier in this thread, then, how necessary is it that the actor who portrays Nephi look like the character depicted in the Arnold Friberg paintings? -- Ronald W. ("Ronn") Blankenship mailto: ronn.blankenship@postoffice.worldnet.att.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew W. Gallup" Subject: [AML] Kofford Books (New Publisher) Date: 06 Nov 2002 05:09:12 -0700 Hello, I work for Greg Kofford Books, Inc. and I attended the AML Writer=92s Conference last Saturday, where I was given just a moment to announce at lunch that our company is seeking submissions to be considered for publication of children=92s books and all other books both fiction and non-fiction, relating to Mormonism. Please visit our website at www.koffordbooks.com all submission details. We currently have over thirty books under contract, and are planning to publish 20 to 24 titles per year. One of the strengths we feel our compa= ny can offer a perspective author is that we distribute through Covenant Communications, this gives us the ability to market to one of the largest customer bases in the LDS market, by having the ability to place our titl= es in virtually every LDS shop in the country. Some other benefits we offer are greater editorial freedom, and more contractual freedom on future titles. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions you may have, the submission detail are also listed on our website at www.koffordbooks.com . Thank you, Andrew Gallup Greg Kofford Books Inc. (801) 523-6063 Office (801) 671-7470 Cellular (801) 576-0583 Fax P.O. Box 1362 Draper, UT 84020 agallup@koffordbooks.com www.koffordbooks.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Perry" Subject: [AML] WILSON, _The Prelude to Glory_ Date: 06 Nov 2002 08:13:24 -0800 Cathy, Is this *your* Russell Wilson, and can you tell us more about it? Steve - - - - - >Sun. Nov. 10-11: Washington DC Area "The Prelude to Glory" at the Washington Temple Visitors' Center. This features the premier performances of Russell Wilson's landmark musical tribute to the patriots who won American freedom. This event is free and open to the public and takes place at 7:00 pm Sun & Mon night. Call 310-587-0144 - - - - - -- skperry@mac.com http://www.StevenKappPerry.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies Date: 06 Nov 2002 08:14:30 -0700 Kimberly Heuston wrote: found many references to moments of grace during which an individual glimpses the workings of the world and has a sense that all is well. Reynolds Price, C. S. Lewis, Thomas Merton and many others seem to have experienced episodes like this. Have any of you? Or do you know of someone who as who might be willing to explore it with me? Yes, Kimberley. You have a strange vocabulary ("moments of grace"? I wouldn't even know how to spell that), but in my vocabulary that phenomina is called "the awakening or rise of Kundalini." I've written several posts about it. Maybe you could find them in the archives. I would be happy to talk to you more about it and or help you get started. Paris Anderson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU Date: 06 Nov 2002 08:33:58 -0800 > > >There are two non-LDS full professors in the psychology department. I > >believe that non-LDS faculty are held to pretty much the same > >standards as > >the rest of the faculty. > > Not exactly. They don't have to pay tithing or hold a temple recommend. > In fact, they don't have to attend Church at all. > So the real question is, do _LDS_ BYU profs have to have temple recommends, pay tithing, attend sacrament meetings, etc?? Jana -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call Date: 06 Nov 2002 10:55:55 -0700 See, that's the problem with making uninformed attacks on people you don't = know; fun though it is, someone calls you on it, as Clark did me. A few points: It's silly to say that Hollywood's preference for attractive people isn't = sexist. Hollywood defines attractiveness; there's a look, and if you = don't got it, you won't succeed. And for women, it includes regular = features, high cheekbones, hair in one of three preferred shades of color, = a youthful appearance, a thin body, and prominent breasts. And so women = who don't meet those physical attributes will likely not have a career at = all, and those who do have them will see their careers die by their = fortieth birthdays, with very few exceptions. And even when an actress = plays a professional woman, a doctor say, or a lawyer, she's still defined = as sexually desirable and as a sexual object.=20 For men, attractiveness is defined in terms of a certain kind of on-camera = magnetism, regular facial feature and some degree of presumed athleticism = physically. That's all, and age becomes irrelevant. And so septuagenarian= s like Sean Connery and Clint Eastwood are still cast as romantic leads. = As the subjects, not objects, of sexual attraction. One of the great pleasures of watching European films and television is = the interest they have in interesting and diverse faces. The average = American film or TV show is astoundingly boring, because everyone looks = alike, and because the look of the show is so absurdly unrelated to = content. How many fashion-model skinny, gorgeous nuclear physicists or = heart surgeons or attorneys do we see on TV? As opposed to real life? =20 And it looks as though this Book of Mormon film is buying into that, the = most infuriating part of popular culture, this all out sexualization of = women even in the most absurd contexts. Why not, instead, show some interesting,= diverse faces and body types? =20 As for what the characters in the Book of Mormon looked like, we know = that, don't we? Or at least we have two choices. They looked like the = native peoples of the Yucatan peninsula. Or, they were distinctly and = clearly Semitic. So why is this being cast in SLC, instead of southern = Mexico? Or Tel Aviv? Clark is right about one thing. I should lay off attacking this film = before I've seen it. It's just that that casting call was offensive. And = the interview with this Rogers' guy, equally so. =20 When it comes to making a movie about the Book of Mormon, I just have two = words to say: Battlefield Earth. John Travolta is a devout Scientologist,= as devout as I am a Mormon, I presume. L. Ron Hubbard's book has, in = addition to its other attributes, an exciting story liine, as does the = Book of Mormon. Presumably many people who have read Hubbard's book, and = who believe it to be inspired, likewise believe it would make a rolicking = good movie. And John Travolta, with all the resources of Hollywood he = could bring to bear on the project, made a movie, a sincerely intentioned = exploration of his holy book. And he had a good, Hollywood sized budget = too. The result; one of the truly horrible movies of all time, and a = laughingstock. A movie in which characters in silly looking costumes = preach at us, in between battle scenes. I think this Book of Mormon movie = idea is, at the least, an idea fraught with peril. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Fowkes" Subject: Re: [AML] Single Bishops Date: 07 Nov 2002 11:23:48 -0700 > I absolutely love this scene. I'm storing it in my psyche, and in about > three weeks, I'll have completely forgotten its origin and start > believing it was original with me. Then I'll be able to write it into a > novel and you'll get your wish. > > -- > D. Michael Martindale > dmichael@wwno.com ROFL. I hope you do! I hope all the scenarios Kathy and Jim added also get written. I, too, know a few abusive women and it needs to be brought forward into the blazing light just as much as all other forms of abuse. If any of these get written, I don't care who adopts them as their own, my "vision" ;-) will have been realized and I will be a very happy woman. (Heaven knows *I* can't write a complete work of fiction if my life depended on it!) Kathy Fowkes -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] AML Conference Question Date: 06 Nov 2002 11:37:45 -0700 It might have been Cedar Fort! www.cedarfort.com or 1-801-489-4084, or 925 N. Main, Springville, Utah. We're open for suggestions! Also, Covenant and Kofford books were there. Contact Covenant for both of those entities! Cheers! Marilyn Brown ----- Original Message ----- > I did not get to the conference till after lunch, but got an email from > a friend this morning asking me "what were the names of the two people > who spoke about submitting to Bookcraft and another LDS publisher" (she > couldn't remember the name of it, but it wasn't Horizon.) -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] "Jack Mormon" Question Date: 06 Nov 2002 12:46:17 -0700 Barbara Hume wrote: >Found this in my Word of the Day message. Could this be the source >of the term "jack-Mormon"? > >barbara hume > >jackleg \JAK-leg\ (adjective) > >1 a : lacking skill or training : amateur b : characterized by >unscrupulousness, dishonesty, or lack of >professional standards 2 : makeshift I don't think so. I just ran across the earliest reference I've seen to the term in John Taylor's Nauvoo diary (published in _BYU Studies_ 23, no. 3): "There are two parties existing at this time in the country, termed Jack-Mormons or men favorable to us, knowing the justice of our cause; and Anti-Mormons or men who oppose us and desire our expulsion." [June 24, 1845] Marny Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: margaret young Subject: [AML] Signature Book Covers Date: 06 Nov 2002 13:30:03 -0700 First: Book 3 (_The Last Mile of the Way_) is IN to the publisher. Difficult birth, and I suspect I'll need some solid recovery time, but it's in. It needs to get past a couple of boards, but I'll think about that tomorrow. Second: I got my Signature Book catalogue a couple of days ago and noticed that _The Backslider_ features a picture of Levi Peterson as its cover, and Michael Fillerups's new novel features his [Michael's] picture as its cover. Well, given the Book of Mormon film requirements for attractiveness, I think this is a really interesting direction for publishers to take. I fully intend to go to "Glamour Shots", get a picture taken of myself (enhanced with soft lighting, professional make-up, and dangly diamond earrings), and have that be the cover for my next book. No--wait, what am I thinking! Richard Dutcher, you can use ME for your cover of _Brigham City: The Novel_. I think I should get a little money for being good-looking, so I would want a small percentage of the sales, but we can negotiate that. I'm wondering how Levi feels about having his own beautiful face labelled as _The Backslider_. I personally think Levi and Michael are attractive enough to get lead roles in the Book of Mormon movie (we need change only one letter in Levi's name to have him be "Lehi"), and I certainly would buy their books based on those covers. Can we get posters too? [Margaret Young] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: margaret young Subject: [AML] _I Am Jane_ Auditions in DC Date: 06 Nov 2002 14:02:31 -0700 For information on _I Am Jane_, see: http://www.overnightanything.com/iamjane/ -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:26:51 -0700 You might want to read Martha Beck's book _Expecting Adam_. (She also has a website.) The book is full of epiphanies. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:38:22 -0800 Linda Adams wrote: >First, the way they both (Eric and Jeff ) described some >of Mormon culture seemed to fit the basic description of >a dysfunctional family. . . . Something that is full of past >secrets nobody wants to talk about. Present secrets and >sins nobody wants discovered. An attitude of covering >up and wanting to "always look our best." A fear of > being found out for less than perfect. I think your assessment of the predominant persona of our culture and humanity in general is very accurate. I don't know why the things you mentioned are the case, but that is the way most people think. I too was raised in the "Mission Field." I wasn't baptized until I was 17, and I didn't actually become converted until I was 25. We all need to realize that perfection can only come after an infinite amount of time is spent earnestly working on the process. We as individuals are works in progress, and even the church (Those called to serve in God's perfect organization) are not perfect. The organization, the gospel, and the plan are perfect, but those who are working at it and in it, unfortunately are not. Perfection is our job description, not our title. The church (this earth, and all the humans on it) are works in progress. I for one do not have the slightest hope of becoming perfect until long after I have passed over onto the other side. I'm don't think perfection is a requirement for entering into the lowest level of the celestial kingdom. After all aren't we taught in the D&C, with regards to the celestial kingdom: - "Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;"- D&C 137:7 So it would seem to me that those who have accepted the gospel and have been baptized are eligible for the first level of the CK as well. Perfection is the work we do after we have taken the first steps. All that is required is that we continue to try, and do our best to be obedient. Unfortunately for some of the judges, this is too simple for them to accept. They are still stuck on perfection. Yet even in their self righteous judging they are committing a far greater sin than the sins they are condemning. I agree with you Linda, we as "Mormon" writers need to let the imperfections show, and that those "others" in the "Mission Field" have a far more realistic, but nevertheless positive opinion of the LDS people in general. We don't need to show the world perfection when we write, only the truth. Regards, Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Artists and Unions Date: 06 Nov 2002 16:09:48 -0800 Mary Jane Ungrangsee wrote: >The orchestra administration and the music director >basically had to back down because they lacked the >resources to fight the union. That musicians still plays, >and the playing is, sadly, still not up to standard... Yes it is very difficult to fight the union, just as it is difficult to fight city hall, taxes, the system , and taxes. These things are all evil necessities. Unions in particular are evil, but nevertheless necessary. We must never forget, that before we had unions, the workers in the coal mines had collars (metaphorically and in some cases literally) around their necks. Jesters, minstrels, and bards were often the property of the king, and if they didn't please him, he could have them killed. The basic problem you have stated is not that there is a union, but that the members of the union do not govern themselves honestly. If a musician is substandard, then he should not receive tenure. If a journeyman in the trades cannot do his job properly then he will not hold down a regular job, until he proves his skill. This should go for any unionized job or profession. I read in a Priesthood manual way back in the 70's that one could not be a good member of the LDS church and a good union member simultaneously. Similarly I once saw a statement about the impossibility of being a Democrat and a member of our church. I have never seen these statements again, but I suspect there are still members of the church who still believe them. This is sad, and I feel sorry for these people. I think it is our job as Mormon writers to expose the fallacies underlying these truths. Regards, Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] re: SAMUELSEN, _Peculiarities_ Date: 06 Nov 2002 15:22:40 -0800 (PST) In my original review of the play I should have said how much I enjoyed the physical setting of the Villa theater in Springville. It has real character, unlike so many new venues that are merely anonymous boxes or aspire to be stadiums. It's a very cool place. Prophets are supposed to give us answers; the best an artist can do is ask very good questions. (And if the questions are acute enough, maybe there are answers lurking nearby.) I thought I recognized a few clear implications in Eric's play. Current American culture teaches us that women are just like men, only with breasts and a uterus. The women in this play seemed to be much more evolved than the men. It's the girl in "Tahoe" who becomes more and more upset about what has happened; the chick in "NCMO" calls the shots; the woman in "Temps" clearly knows what is at stake. Should be generalize about this to all men and all women? How many *really* smart women do you know, as opposed to men? (And this doesn't mean, either, that women are naturally morally superior to men. "NCMO" should disabuse you of that.) An outsider viewing this play might ask, "What's with all the guilt?" (Especially when only one of the couples ends up having sex.) I can imagine some furrowed brows in a New York or California audience. Well, the spectacle of people violating their own consciences, their particular moral standards, should be of concern to anybody with feelings and a brain. Evelyn Waugh once said he thought you would have to be both British and Catholic to get "Brideshead Revisited"; he was proven wrong by the large audience who loved the book. But why the *sex* in "Peculiarities"? Why of all things should there be guilt about that? One can only say, "Because it's *important.* Important enough to bring to light and examine, rather than to lock it in a closet and deny it exists. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader Date: 06 Nov 2002 16:28:39 -0800 Lynette Jones wrote: >"...please, resist creating art specifically for "the > Mormon market." That's putting the candle under the >bushel, if you ask Amen! I think we do quite enough `preaching to the Choir' as it is; we need to reach out to the lost sheep. If we have found the way, we need to leave a trail for them to follow, and then go out into the wilderness and heard them into the fold. Regards, Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience Date: 06 Nov 2002 16:36:59 -0800 > It is my understanding that history has been being >rewritten by the victors since time began. > > Tracie Laulusa True, but I don't think the writers of the new history completely erased the old history as they were rewriting. Then again, how would we know if they did? Regards, Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kumiko" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report Nov. 1 02 Date: 05 Nov 2002 19:00:40 -0600 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of November 1, 2002 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] 
Natl  Film Title                Weekend Gross
Rank  LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor  Total Gross Theaters Days
---  ----------------------------- -----------  -----  ----
 1   The Santa Clause 2             29,008,696  3,350     3
     Cinco Paul (screenwriter)      29,008,696

 8   Punch-Drunk Love                4,003,535  1,252    24
     Actors/characters:             10,861,175
         David Stevens,
         Nathan Stevens,
         Michael D. Stevens,
         Jim Smooth Stevens (James Smooth)

42   Master of Disguise                 94,894    136    94
     Perry Andelin Blake (director) 40,143,371

49   City by the Sea                    70,769    185    59
     Eliza Dushku (actress)         22,369,941

57   Jack Weyland's Charly              30,795     23    38
     Adam Anderegg (director)          435,797
     Jack Weyland (book author)
     Janine Gilbert (screenwriter)
     Lance Williams, Micah Merrill (producers)
     Tip Boxell (co-producer)
     Bengt Jan Jonsson (cinematographer)
     Aaron Merrill (composer)
     Actors: Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliott,
        Adam Johnson, Jackie Winterrose Fullmer,
        Diana Dunkley, Gary Neilson, Lisa McCammon,
        Randy King, Bernie Diamond, etc.

60   Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man   26,742      6   913
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   14,259,082

66   Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure   15,158     10   633
     Scott Swofford (producer)      13,565,537
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)
     Sam Cardon (composer)

73   Galapagos                          10,096      8  1102
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   13,791,525

94   China: The Panda Adventure          3,994      5   465
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    2,916,832

105  Handcart                            1,920      4    24
     Kels Goodman (director/DP)         60,932
     David Greenslaw Sapp (producer)
     Mark von Bowers (screenwriter)
     Eric M. Hanson (composer)
     Actors: Jaelan Petrie, Stephanie Albach
        Chris Kendrick, Shannon Skinner,
        Gretchen Condie

107  ESPN's Ultimate X                   1,520      5   178
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    4,193,901

109  Mark Twain's America 3D             1,254      2  1585
     Alan Williams (composer)        2,281,741

114  The Singles Ward                      875      2   276
     Kurt Hale (writer/director)     1,250,798
     John E. Moyer (writer)
     Dave Hunter (producer)
     Ryan Little (cinematographer)
     Cody Hale (composer)
     Actors: Will Swenson, Connie Young,
        Daryn Tufts, Kirby Heyborne,
        Michael Birkeland, Robert Swenson,
        Wally Joyner, Lincoln Hoppe,
        Sedra Santos, etc.

124  Ziggy Stardust & Spiders from Mars    234      2   117
     Mick Ronson (2nd billed actor)    118,853


THE SANTA CLAUSE 2 - One of six screenwriters listed for The Santa Clause 2
(the sequel to the 1994 blockbuster holiday film starring Tim Allen) is
screenwriter Cinco Paul, a name familiar to readers of the LDSFilm.com
website. The eagerly-awaited film was just released this weekend and grossed
over $29 million in its first weekend, placing it in the number one spot.
Parents will be happy to know that the film is rated G, continuing Disney's
recent trend of releasing Hollywood-quality live action films that are rated
G including the very successful "The Rookie", which amazingly, was rated G
but was intended for an adult audience. What a concept! Making films for
adults that don't have anything in them that you would mind your kids
seeing! LDSFilm.com correspondent Tom Baggaley took his family to see it
this weekend, and all enjoyed the film. Those on the daily mailing list can
expect reviews from his eight-year-old and five-year-old in the next couple
of days, as well as a couple thoughts from a film composer's perspective
from Baggaley himself.

THE JOLLY OLD ELF VERSUS THE SPY - Those of you who get our daily mailing
list noticed that LDSFilm.com's positively jingoistic founder and webmaster
threw down the gauntlet on this one: Which film would have a better opening
weekend - "The Santa Clause 2" or Eddie Murphy's "I Spy"? As Hunter put it:
"Family-shmamly. I just want to see our boys trounce Eddie Murphy -- again."
He hastened to add: "I like Eddie, really I do. Good guy. 'Beverly Hills
Cop' on TV -- very funny stuff. Loved him in 'Mulan.' I even liked 'Coming
to America.' But, Eddie, don't mess with us. You picked the wrong weekend."
(Both films were scheduled to open November 1st, both in over 3,000
theaters.) Arguing that once again, Eddie Murphy would fall short of the
number one spot, thanks to competition from "our boys", Hunter cited the
following historical record:

Last time Murphy had a movie open it was "The Adventures of Pluto Nash." It
opened (on August 16, 2002) in 10th place nationwide. Ouch! It got thrashed
by another movie opening that weekend: "Blue Crush", which not only stars
Utah native Matthew Davis in the lead male role, but which was also filmed
on the beaches by BYU-Hawaii, with lots of BYU coeds as extras and stuff.
("Blue Crush" opened in 3rd nationwide, behind "xXx" and "Signs", which were
in their 2nd and third week.) The Eddie Murphy movie before that was
"Showtime", which opened on March 15, 2002 in 3rd place behind "Ice Age" and
"Resident Evil." Okay, I've got nuthin' to say about that. But the Eddie
Murphy movie before that one was "Doctor Dolittle 2", which opened on June
22, 2001. EVERYBODY thought it would be number #1 at the box office. But
"The Fast and the Furious," starring Latter-day Saint actor Paul Walker in
the lead role, came out of nowhere and completely smoked Eddie. (And don't
give me that "kids came to see Vin Diesel -- not surfer boy Paul" line...
Paul was at the top of the marquee.) You've got to go back to the previous
Eddie Murphy movie to find at time where Eddie opened in the #1 spot:
"Shrek" (opened May 18, 2001). Yes the same computer-animated "Shrek" whose
original producer was none other than John Garbett, of "The Other Side of
Heaven" fame. In fact, Eddie Murphy was the only
star who was retained in "Shrek" from the time that Garbett was the movie's
producer. After Garbett stepped down to work on other projects (including
"Heaven"), Cameron Diaz replaced Janeane Garofalo as the princess and Mike
Myers replaced his late friend Chris Farley as the ogre.

So how did it turn out this weekend? Would history repeat itself, or would
Hunter end up eating crow? Which film did better in the box office? As
previously mentioned, "The Santa Clause 2" took the number one spot,
grossing over $29 million in its first weekend. Eddie's film? With a weekend
box office gross of just under $13 million, it came in at #3, behind SC2 and
the thriller blockbuster, "The Ring". Now if Eddie Murphy were to take a
dramatic turn as Elijah Abel... THAT might be a Number 1 movie...

FESTIVAL PROGRAM PROMISES BIGGEST LDS FILM EVENT IN HISTORY - The 2ND LDS
FILM FESTIVAL 2002 will take place November 13-16 at the historic Provo City
Library. The festival program includes screenings of over 50 short films and
documentaries, many Q&A's with the filmmakers, a dozen FILMMAKER'S
PRESENTATIONS and workshops, a 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING-MARATHON, an LDS
FILM FORUM with presentations by LDS scholars and a panel discussion. "This
is probably the biggest LDS film event in history," says Christian Vuissa,
founder and organizer of the festival. Invited guests include Kurt Hale and
Dave Hunter ("Singles Ward," "The RM"), Adam Anderegg and Micah Merrill
("Charly"), Lee B. Groberg ("Sacred Stone: The Temple at Nauvoo"), Dean Hale
(Distributor of "God's Army," "The Other Side of Heaven"), Ryan Little ("Out
of Step"), Gary Rogers ("Book of Mormon Movie"), Nathan Smith Jones ("The
Work and the Story"), and many, many more. The theme of the 2ND LDS FILM
FORUM is "Fantasy and Reality in LDS Media." Five presenters have been
invited to discuss the roles of reality and fantasy in LDS media past,
present, and future. The presentations are followed by a panel discussion
about "The LDS Cinematic Audience." The panel examines the nature of the LDS
film audience: exactly who and where they are, what it is that they "want,"
and what further steps may be necessary to truly establish an audience and,
therefore, an identity for "LDS cinema."

GET READY FOR THE 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING MARATHON - The LDS FILM
FESTIVAL is launching its first 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING MARATHON.
Everyone is invited to get together with a group of friends and be part of
this exhilarating competition. On Wednesday, November 13, at 10.30 a.m.
participants will receive a theme for a short film, and on Thursday,
November 14, no later than 10.30 a.m. they have to hand in their finished
films. That same evening all films will be screened and judged at the 2ND
LDS FILM FESTIVAL. Participants will be allowed to use any equipment of
their choice. They have only 24 hours to write, shoot and edit their film.
The finished film can be no longer than 5 minutes. No more than five people
(cast and crew) per group will be allowed to take part. All films must be
completely original. The entry fee is $ 20.00 per participating group. All
participants contribute to the prize money that will be awarded to the
winner of the 24-HOUR-INSTANT-FILMMAKING-MARATHON. The best film will also
be part of the "BEST OF 2002" program and tour around the world. This is a
great chance to become a well-known filmmaker in 24-hours... 

FINALISTS FOR FILM AND SCREENPLAY COMPETITION SELECTED - 36 short films have
been selected as finalists for the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002. Four
competition programs including the long awaited Female Filmmakers program
will be screened during the festival. The very best films will be selected
by both a jury and the audience for the "BEST OF 2002" program, which will
be screened on Saturday, November 16. The screenplay competition will now be
divided into two separate competitions - a short script competition and a
feature script competition. Due to a generous donation by R. Don Oscarson
the award money could be raised to $ 2,600.00.

PRE-FESTIVAL SCREENINGS THIS WEEK AT BYU IDAHO - On invitation of the
theatre department, the LDS Film Festival will visit BYU-Idaho November 8
and 9 to present finalists of this year's and last year's festival program.
Two 2-hour screenings are scheduled. Additionally, workshops and
presentations are planned for Saturday, November 9. Participating filmmakers
are Bryan Lefler (USA), Andrew Black (Scotland), Jason Faller (Canada),
Jason Conforto (USA), Magnus Henriksen (Norway) and Christian Vuissa
(Austria). They will answer audience questions and prepare workshops and
presentations for those interested in the filmmaking process.  For an
outline of the festival program go to:
http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php To view this year's festival
finalists, go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist.php

A FILM FROM JEANNE MCKINNEY AND ANNE BRADSHAW - Screenwriter, Jeanne
McKinney, and author, Anne Bradshaw, have adapted the novel, Terracotta
Summer into a screenplay for a proposed motion picture they would like to
find investors for entitled Season of Fire. For more information, visit
http://www.cedarfort.com/news/bradshaw_movie.html

OFFICIAL "THE R.M." WEB SITE - The all new official website for "The R.M."
is online. Teaser video, cast and cameos info, soundtrack, new images, etc.
Check it out: http://www.rmthemovie.com/

KIRBY'S STAR RISING - Just two months away from the Jan. 24th release of
"The R.M.," starring Kirby Heyborne in the lead role. Kirby had a supporting
role in "The Singles Ward," AND he recently has been cast in the lead role
in the upcoming Latter-day Saint-themed feature film" "The Best Two Years of
my Life." He also has a small role in the upcoming Latter-day Saint-themed
feature film "The Work and the Story." Heyborne also had a lead role in the
independent film "Social Suicide," an independent film made by SLC filmmaker
David Wells. Two lead roles and a supporting role will mean that Heyborne
will be among the most prolific stars in Latter-day Saint-themed feature
fils, matched only Richard Dutcher (God's Army, Brigham City, The Work and
the Story) and Jeremy Elliott (Testaments, Charly, Out of Step). Will
Swenson also has a lead role in "The Singles Ward" and "The R.M." Matthew
Brown had a lead role in both "God's Army" and "Brigham City." Michael
Buster had a lead role in "Out of Step" and a supporting role in "God's
Army."

WHAT IN THE WORLD IS JOHN LYDE UP TO? - What has John Lyde been up to? John
Lyde, best known for his feature-length film about missionaries, "The Field
is White" (now in LDS bookstores nationwide on VHS and DVD), has apparently
been busy. He has completed a new film which are competing in the upcoming
LDS Film Festival, to be held in two weeks in Provo. One is a comedy, "My
One True Love": Young Mahanri must stop his childhood love from marrying the
wrong man. Lyde is also competing in the short screenplay competition, with
a script titled "Mariah's Prayer." We're guessing it is not about Mariah
Carey. Okay, actually, it is about a young girl who is afraid of the monster
under the bed and learns that with God we have nothing to be afraid of. He
has also made a 30 minute short called "Shadowman" It is about nine junior
high students in after school detention. One by one they start to disappear.
Plus, he has written a 30 page script for a film he will be shooting over
the next couple of months called "In the Service of God." No, it is not
about missionary work. It is about home teaching. It should be finished by
the end of the year. As if that's enough, John also plans to shoot "Mariah's
Prayer" around Christmas time.

BOOK ABOUT THE MAKING OF HEAVEN - New in stores this week - a gorgeous hard
cover photography book takes you behind the scenes and into the making of
the movie "The Other Side of Heaven.": JOURNEY OF FAITH: The Making of The
Other Side of Heaven - Nearly 250 breathtaking color photos from
photographer Anita Schiller take you into the world on the other side of the
movie cameras. Shot on location in Rarotonga in the Cook Islands and in New
Zealand, Schiller's photographs give insight into the filmmaking process as
well as into the journey taken by the filmmakers who brought the amazing and
true story of John Groberg to the big screen. Side by side with the behind
the scenes photos are archival photos from John Groberg's own collection as
well as stills from the film. Accompanying all the photos is commentary from
Academy Award-winning producer Gerald R. Molen, producer John Garbett and
director Mitch Davis. Additional excerpts from John Groberg's letters and
journals give additional insight into his incredible adventures on the
island of Tonga. "The Other Side of Heaven" opened in movie theaters around
the nation in 2002. The movie told the true story of John Groberg's mission
to the Kingdom of Tonga in the 1950's. It grossed over $4.7 million,
becoming the highest-grossing LDS-themed film to date. For additonal
information and to view sample pages, please visit the website
www.vantagepointpress.com.

REALLY LOONEY ALIEN - An alien from the movie "This Island Earth," based on
the novel by devout Latter-day Saint F. Raymond Jones, is slated to appear
in next year's "Loony Tunes: Back in Action" feature film. To find out more,
visit http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/news.html. Looney Tunes: Back in
Action is currently shooting, with a November 2003 release date in mind.

UTAH SPIDEY CONNECTION - "Spider-Man" will be released on video and DVD
tomorrow. The signature effect in the movie is Spidey's webslinging.
Although many of the film's special effects are digital, there are also
extensive practical effects. Kevin Chase, a resident of Moab, Utah and his
company, Worldwide Specialty Rigging, Ltd. worked extensively on the the
stunt and camera rigging for "Spider-Man". Chase's other recent credits
include "Mission Impossible II" for director John Woo and "Stuart Little 2."


THE SPIDER MEETS THE RAVEN - A totally separate subject: Best Latter-day
Saint character in the Spider-Man comic book series: Our pick would be
Detective Jacob Raven. Raven, a devout Church member from Salt Lake City,
first encounted Peter Parker in a classic story chronicled in J. M.
DeMatteis' classic 3-issue limited series "Spider-Man: The Lost Years"
(1995). Raven later traced Peter Parker to New York City, and had him
arrested and jailed for murder. (Peter was later found innocent.) The 3
issues of the "Spider-Man: The Lost Years" limited series present a fond
look at Salt Lake City in general and at Raven in particular. These are
probably the best "Jacob Raven/Spider-Man" stories, but Jacob Raven appeared
in other issues of Spidey's various series: Spider-Man #'s 53, 54, 57, 59,
60; Web of Spider-Man #'s 121, 122, 123, 124, 126; Peter Parker: The
Spectacular Spider-Man #'s 222, 223, 226, 231; Amazing Spider-Man #'s 400,
402, 403; Amazing Spider-Man Unlimited # 9; Scarlet Spider Unlimited # 1.
That Detective Jacob Raven will be making an appearance in any Spider-Man
motion picture sequels is still considered a long shot.

ANDEREGG UP IN THE RANKINGS - The weekend's box office gross for "Jack
Weyland's Charly" has brought the movie's total gross to $435,797, bumping
director Adam Thomas Anderegg into the Top 10 list of currently working
Latter-day Saint film directors (based on total career box office gross).
(To see the entire list, visit our home page - http://www.ldsfilm.com.)
Anderegg switched places with Blair Treu, whose first theatrically-released
feature film, "Little Secrets", grossed $405,182 at the box office this
year. (Of course, if the video sales and TV revenue from Treu's five other
feature films were added to the "Little Secrets" box office, the total would
be far higher. But this list is based only on box office gross at theaters.)
In January 2003, Anderegg may battle director Kurt Hale for 9th place... A
nationwide expansion of "Charly" is planned for the new year -- at about the
same time that Hale's 2nd feature film, "The R.M." is released. Based on the
performance of "The Other Side of Heaven", Excel Entertainment's last
release, which also was distributed nationwide, it is conceivable that the
box office gross for "Jack Weyland's Charly" could eventually exceed Richard
Dutcher's combined box office gross ($3,533,902 from "God's Army" and
"Brigham City"), or even the box office gross for Mitch Davis' "The Other
Side of Heaven" ($4,718,431). But after that, it's a long climb to the $40
million plateau that marks 6th place on this list. Of course, a list ranked
by total box office gross may be seen as a crude (literally "gross")
yardstick of a director. Note that the list ranked by average critical
response to directors' movies corresponds hardly at all to the list based on
box office receipts.

LDS FILM FESTIVAL FEATURE-LENGTH SCREENPLAY COMPETITION: The finalists in
the feature-length screenplay competition at the 2nd LDS Film Festival, to
be held November 13-16, 2002 in Provo, Utah, were announced on November 5th.
"Anxiously Engaged," written by Matthew Ball and Mark Greenhalgh, is one of
25 feature-length screenplays in the competition. First prize is $400 cash.
The 2nd place winner will receive $150.00. Third place receives $50.00. The
only competitor who has had a feature-length screenplay filmed is Aaron
Orullian, writer/director of the independent feature film "The Appleby
Sensation" (1997). Two notable authors are in competition: novelist Anne
Bradshaw and Church media spokesman Coke Newell. A few competitors are known
have completed short films: Ben Gourley, Dustin "Spanky" Ward, Brian Taylor,
Brandon Dayton, Andy Arness, Kyle Snarr, and Hubbel Palmer. The names of the
other competitors in the feature-length screenplay competition are new to
us, and are not known to have written anything that has actually been
filmed: Kory Koontz, Tom Laughlin, Marcia Wendorf, Heather Lawver, Anthony
R. Petersen, Derek DeWitt, Scott Wilhite, Anne Pratt, Matthew Anderson,
Emily Stephens, Diana Bahtishi, Karl W. Beckstrand, Nathan Scoll.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: j.eldard@attbi.com
Subject: [AML] Indian Placement Program Query
Date: 05 Nov 2002 17:13:40 +0000

Does anyone know if the Church Indian Placement Program 
was for Mormon children only? I'm working on something 
and I need to know for a plot line. Thanks.

John Eldard


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Amy Redford Starring in LaBute's "Shape of Things"
Date: 06 Nov 2002 20:45:10 -0600

Amy Redford, daughter of actor/director Robert Redford and Latter-day Saint
documentary filmmaker Lola Van Wagenen, is starring on stage in the lead
role as Evelyn in Neil LaBute's "The Shape of Things", extended to Nov. 9 at
CanStage's Berkeley Street Theatre.

(Van Wagenen and Redford were married for 21 years.)

In an interview, Amy Redford notes: "I was raised in downtown New York and
in Utah," she recalls. "I need Utah. I like spending a lot of time alone; I
need solitude or I get batty... My parents are very grounded; they made sure
we were treated like normal children. Neither of them came from privilege
and they were not interested in having kids they didn't want to be around."

[Further excerpts from article:]
Her father visited her in Toronto last weekend. Both parents make a ritual
of seeing all her shows: She's appeared in The Messenger off Broadway in New
York, co-starring with Hollywood brat Troy Garity, son of Jane Fonda and Tom
Hayden; Hand Of God; Measure For Measure; Macbeth; Baby With The Bathwater;
and Golden Ladder, where she was scouted for Shape. She's also played a
doctor in Sopranos and guested on Sex And The City as Amy, a woman married
to a guy smitten with Charlotte (Kristin Davis' character)...

Her mom, she points out, is as much a role model as Dad. Van Wagenen went
back to school when Redford was in grade school to get her Ph.D. from NYU
with a dissertation on the suffragette movement. Mom was also exec producer
of the doc "There She Is: A History of Miss America."

...She admits to being a diehard Neil LaBute fan.

"He blows my mind. He is so unafraid to show the infrastructure of human
beings. I think it's wrong that people call him misogynistic; I'd much
rather play such a complex character."


Full article:
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Artic
le_Type1&c=Article&cid=1026146790085&call_page=TS_Entertainment&call_pageid=
968867495754&call_pagepath=Entertainment/News&col=969483191630


-- Preston Hunter




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] MARTINDALE, _Brother Brigham_ (Review)
Date: 06 Nov 2002 21:45:17 -0800

For the record, yes, I did review the book.  Sometimes it takes a while for reviews to 
reach the archives.

>There is one thing about the sex in the book that bothered me,
>and that was the "loose woman" character, Shelia. Twice in the
>course of the book, Shelia is described as masturbating. I am not
>sure it is the act that bothers me so much, or if I just can't
>believe her behavior as something a woman would do--even one as
>hardened as the author paints this character to be. something
>doesn't ring true in those scenes to me...or maybe it just goes
>too far for my sensibilities. That is the one point where I as a
>reader said "OK this is a man writing this, and I see him behind
>the scenes". For me, that interrupted the dream. It will be
>interesting to hear further feedback on this point at my
>bookgroup in a couple of weeks. Maybe the whole thing would work
>if it were left a little more "told" and less "shown". Those were
>the only two times the writer crossed the line for me.
>

I never viewed Sheila as a "woman," but rather as a "girl" -- a distinction having to do 
with both age and maturity.  I had no problem at all picturing her engaging in just 
about any activity .


>I am just sorry for the rest of you that you won't have access to
>buying the book and reading it. Not only is it a great horror
>story, it explores all kinds of deep LDS fears--theft of temple
>recommends, manipulations of records, true visions, where is the
>line when a woman questions the "righteous preisthood holder" in
>her life, the power of discernment and many others. It's a book I
>would recommend to all adult readers.
>

I liked it, too.  I hope it finds a home with some publisher, I just don't know which 
one.


------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@general.com 
or
jeffneedle@tns.net







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jacob Proffitt" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 06 Nov 2002 23:16:18 -0700

---Original Message From: Linda Adams
>
> I think Utahns oughta leave
> the state more often to find this out. Work outside Utah for
> at least a
> five-year stint Abroad--as in, some other state in the Union
> (and no, Idaho
> doesn't count--take a risk.) No, your 2-year mission doesn't
> count. Regular
> work. (And while you're at it, stop calling
> Every-Location-But-Utah "the
> mission field." That alone is a very excluding term, isn't
> it, and hardly
> accurate??) Now, I'm not offended in the least by any of this
> stuff--I just
> think it's funny. As in weird *and* humorous.
>
> I have lived in that  "mission field" my entire life
> except for four
> years attending BYU. Most of my friends growing up were not
> Mormons, and I
> still have several close friends who are of other faiths. Let
> me just say
> that getting to know our dear 'Gentile' friends simply for
> who they are
> (unlike Jeff's Amway friend: as prospective distributors,
> giving up when
> the prospects don't come around to our way of thinking) is a
> marvelous
> blessing. Y'all should try it. Here's a heretical idea. Make
> some nonmember
> friends without involving the missionaries. Just to be
> friends. Get to know
> each other.

I find this rather condescending, Linda.  You might not mean it that
way, but it certainly seems to me that you are lecturing us on a
situation you admit up front you are not very familiar with.  Perhaps it
would be a good idea if you spent a couple years in Utah to discover
what it is like before offering us advice that we don't really need.
Speaking as someone who has lived in the "mission field" (though I
haven't heard it called that since I was a kid) for your proscribed five
years and more, I have been trapped in Utah the last three and a half
years and I can tell you that you don't have the whole picture.

First, those of us who live in Salt Lake City no longer have the kind of
homogeneity that seems to be an underlying assumption of your comments.
My ward, for all it is less than a mile on each side, has a good number
of non-LDS members (I'd estimate half or so)--many of whom I know and
interact with as much as I interact with anyone.  We are not the clear
majority we used to be and that has cracked our provincialism to an
extent yet to be recognized in our literature or art.  Salt Lake has as
much vice as any other city its size and the problems that go with it.
It also has as much opportunity for expansive experience as any other
city its size and possibly more.

Second, those who are *not* LDS are often actively hostile to Mormons to
an extent I did not find outside Utah.  I've been threatened with
physical violence for being "one of those arrogant Mormons" during a
traffic dispute that would have ended with a simple finger wave anywhere
else.  I have had a boss who is actively antagonistic to the church and
the author of a scathing anti-church website (who complimented me for
not being a typical Mormon, whatever that means--I should probably be
offended).  Regular business relations are heavily complicated by my
Mormonism here in ways that would have no meaning outside Utah.
Dealings with non-Mormons are automatically strained by a searching
stand-offishness seeking to ascertain if I'm one who will frown on a
cigarette or drink during dinner.  Dealings with Mormons are as strained
by a searching stand-offishness seeking to ascertain if I'm one who will
frown on a cigarette or drink during dinner (um, as often in the "is he
valiant" as in the "will he rat me out" vein).  It's tense and it's
inevitable and there is no cure for it as long as Mormons are a
substantial part of the population here.

Third, Mormons here are no more likely to invite the missionaries in
than anywhere else I've ever been.  Less likely in most cases because
most of our non member friends not only have Book of Mormons, they've
likely had a number of discussions, probably know who their Stake
President is, and have attended a missionary farewell within the past
year (well, if they have kids anyway).

Finally, I'd love to get out more, but I'd rather have a date with
Melissa (who is sadly neglected, frankly) than try to find common cause
with the hunter across the street.  Don't get me wrong, I know Roger, we
talk, we've discussed the recent Elk hunt.  But we frankly don't have a
lot in common and our conversations are as uncomfortable for him as they
are for me.  We're friendly and we talk about neighborhood issues, but
we aren't going to become buddies any time soon.

Jacob Proffitt






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Richard R. Hopkins" 
Subject: [AML] AML Conference Question About Cornerstone
Date: 06 Nov 2002 23:35:32 -0800

I have heard that Duane Crowther of Horizon was at the AML Conference and
that he said some things about me and Cornerstone.  Is that true?  If so,
could any who heard these things email me off list as to what was said?

This request (though not necessarily the replies to it) is on subject
because we are planning to resurrect Cornerstone (as a distributor only, for
now), and it is important that we address any rumors circulating in the
industry about us.  The LDS publishing community is a small one.  If we are
to have an opportunity to contribute to it, we need to address detractors
and identify any false rumors or statements.  I have promised to give a full
update to the list about Cornerstone, and would like to do so soon.  In
order to do justice to that report, however, I need to know what is being
said.

Richard Hopkins





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 07 Nov 2002 02:52:08 -0700

Bill Willson wrote:
> 
> Lynette Jones wrote:
> 
> >"...please, resist creating art specifically for "the
> > Mormon market." That's putting the candle under the >bushel, if you ask
> 
> Amen! I think we do quite enough `preaching to the Choir' as it is; we need
> to reach out to the lost sheep. If we have found the way, we need to leave a
> trail for them to follow, and then go out into the wilderness and heard them
> into the fold.

Here we go telling writers what they should write again.

Why on earth shouldn't we write to our own people, for heaven's sake?
What makes you think all the lost sheep are "out there" among the
Gentiles? I wrote my novel _Brother Brigham_ for a Mormon audience.
There ain't no preaching to the choir there. Not the sort of preaching
the choir is used to anyway. My book ought to make the choir sit up and
think.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Boba Fett Starring in "Johnny Lingo"
Date: 07 Nov 2002 08:31:18 -0600

Of the actors starring in the upcoming "The Legend of Johnny Lingo," the
best known to American audiences are Temuera Morrison and Daniel Logan, the
actors who portrayed Jango and Boba Fett, respectively, in "Star Wars
Episode II: Attack of the Clones."

"The Legend of Johnny Lingo" features an ALL-Polynesian cast, and the
screenplay was written by Polynesian screenwriter Riwia Brown.

The director, Steven Ramirez, is a Latter-day Saint film editor best known
locally as the editor for "The Other Side of Heaven." Ramirez and "Johnny
Lingo" producers Jerry Molen and John Garbett all worked together previously
on "The Other Side of Heaven," which was also set in Polynesia and filmed in
the Cook Islands.

- Preston



Steven Ramirez, film editor:
The Other Side of Heaven (2001)
All My Friends Are Cowboys (1998; TV)
Pacific Heights (1990)

first assistant editor:
Double Jeopardy (1999)
The Devil's Advocate (1997)
A Family Thing (1996)
The Chamber (1996)
Dolores Claiborne (1995)
Intersection (1994)
Leap of Faith (1992)
Rush (1991)
Driving Miss Daisy (1989)
Cocoon: The Return (1988)
The Running Man (1987)
Big Trouble in Little China (1986)
Weird Science (1985)
Tough Enough (1983)
Second-Hand Hearts (1981)
Being There (1979)
Thicker Than Blood (1998; TV)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew W. Gallup" 
Subject: Re: [AML] AML Conference Question
Date: 07 Nov 2002 05:30:09 -0700

As I mentioned in my posting yesterday we are a new publisher and we only
distribute through Covenant.  Please feel free to contact our company
directly with any questions or submissions. Please visit our website at
www.koffordbooks.com   for details.

Thank you,

Andrew Gallup
Greg Kofford Books Inc.
(801) 523-6063 Office
(801) 671-7470 Cellular
(801) 576-0583 Fax
P.O. Box 1362
Draper, UT 84020
agallup@koffordbooks.com
www.koffordbooks.com

Original message:

It might have been Cedar Fort! www.cedarfort.com or 1-801-489-4084, or 925
N. Main, Springville, Utah. We're open for suggestions! Also, Covenant and
Kofford books were there. Contact Covenant for both of those entities!
Cheers! Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Hammett 
Subject: [AML] Economics of Polygamy (was: Sealings)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 08:36:50 -0600 (CST)

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Eric Dixon wrote:
> Subject: Re: [AML] Sealings
> 
> Barbara wrote:
> >I'm no longer ambiguous about the concept of plural wives. I reject it. I 
> >may be proven wrong, but a system that treats one gender as deserving of 
> >more privilege than the other is not consistent with the God I know. I 
> >guess I've just seen too much "But it's different for men" excuse-making in 
> >my life. If I had a husband who brought home some chick and told me that 
> >he'd be sleeping with her from now on, by golly. . . . . . [bleep]
> 
> Economist David Friedman, who has done groundbreaking work in applying
> price theory to the economics of behavior, concludes that the availability
> of polygamous (polygynous) relationships is actually better for women &
> worse for men:
> 
> http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_Chapter_21/PThy_Cha
> p_21.html

I found his analysis quite non-compelling.  The major fault in his
first model, to me, is that he purports to be analyzing a situation
similar to current society, ie, where women have complete control
over their own marriage decisions, which is a relatively recent
development in most cultures.

However, at the same time, he doesn't seem to appreciate another major
contemporaneous development in marriage, the importance of the
"romance" or emotional bonds in the marriage.  In most marriages
that I am familiar with, Pw (the "price" a woman will accept in
return for giving herself in marriage) would quickly rise too
high for most men to be able to "afford" two wives.

Perhaps one of you writers who likes writing relationships could
examine this question in a short story.

rich
-- 
\  Rich Hammett       http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/  rhammett@HiWAAY.net   "Better the pride that resides
/                       in a citizen of the world;
\                      than the pride that divides
/                     when a colorful rag is unfurled."





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 07 Nov 2002 07:59:47 -0800

Paris Anderson wrote:

"... in my vocabulary that phenomina is called "the awakening or
rise of Kundalini."  I've written several posts
about it.  Maybe you could find them in the archives.  I would be
happy to talk to you more about it and or help you get started."

Paris,

As a yoga instructor, I found this comment really interesting. I
currently teach a free class daily at a ward house in our stake.
I taught various kinds of aerobic/resistance training/fitness
classes for 22 years in health clubs. Got sick of that grind and
offered to start teaching for free to people around here just to
keep doing it but to move into a different mindset. The daily
5:30 AM class has morphed over the years, as I slowly introduced
concepts, to Yoga only. It took me awhile to get them to change
gears from "gotta get that heart rate up there" to a more
connected breath-spirit-mind-body thing, but now they only want
to do Yoga. We jokingly call it "Mo-ga" because we have occassion
to link the philosophies of the yogic tradition with teachings of
the LDS faith, remembering that "all truth" will one day be
brought together. People in my class have reported to me that
they've started making a connection with "pondering" and the
ability to clear one's mind from all the internal chatter and
just observe--both their interior and the world around them.
Increased strength and flexibility in their physical bodies have
opened spiritual strength and flexibility paths to some of my
class members. They've learned to slow down, de-stress and
appreciate their lives more.

Christ taught turning the other cheek, offering the cloak,
non-judgementalism. It sounds a lot like wu-wei to me...learning
to be the rock in the stream of life, letting chaos flow around
you.  Have you found any good sources of reading material you
like in connection with this? I've learned alot from Beryl
Bender's BEYOND POWER YOGA. Any suggestions? I'm headed now to
see if I can figure out how to search the archives to find your
past posts on the subject.

Kim Madsen






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Markham 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 07 Nov 2002 11:12:54 -0500

I don't know why either of the Bof M movies is even thinking of casting women in this film, as they are largely absent from the source text.  Somebody pointed out that only three are mentioned by name--a wife, a queen, and a prostitute.

I envision a movie filled with big-muscled, oily-skinned, weight-lifters, something akin to the Steve Reeves movies of the 60s.  If this turns out to be the case, the BofM movies will have two widely diverse target audiences--devout LDS, and gay men.

Relish the thought.

Tony Markham





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:13:01 -0700 

Yes, I'm almost positive that LDS professors at BYU now must keep a current
temple recommend. This policy was tightened within the last couple of years
or so.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marny Parkin 
Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:29:10 -0700

Jana wrote:

>So the real question is, do _LDS_ BYU profs have to have temple recommends,
>pay tithing, attend sacrament meetings, etc??

This is from a brochure I received upon being hired as part-time 
staff last week (and was read to me during the policy review):

"As a matter of personal commitment, students, staff and faculty of 
Brigham Young University seek to demonstrate, in daily living, those 
moral virtues encompassed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and will:

- Be Honest
- Live a Chaste & Virtuous LIfe
- Obey the Law
- Use Clean Language
- Respect Others
- Abstain from Alcoholic Beverages, Tobacco, Tea, Coffee and Drug Abuse"

In addition, the web site states "It is a condition of employment 
that employees observe the behavioral standards of the University, 
including the Honor Code and Dress and Grooming Standards. LDS 
employees also accept as a condition of employment observance of the 
standards qualifying them for temple privileges."

Marny Parkin





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Teaching at BYU
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:20:58 -0700

>
>So the real question is, do _LDS_ BYU profs have to have 
>temple recommends, pay tithing, attend sacrament meetings, etc??

Yes.  And at least one BYU prof was fired for not attending Sacrament
Meeting on a regular basis.  

But you think that is strict.  If you work for CES as a Seminary
Teacher, and you become divorced, you are also relieved of your job.  At
least that doesn't happen at BYU.

Thom






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:37:02 -0700

>
>Amen! I think we do quite enough `preaching to the Choir' as 
>it is; we need to reach out to the lost sheep. If we have 
>found the way, we need to leave a trail for them to follow, 
>and then go out into the wilderness and heard them into the fold.

I don't think you are saying this, but I'm going to use your statement
as a jumping off point nonetheless: Hearding people into the fold should
never be the sole reason one creates art.  In fact, I would go so far as
to say that it should never be a reason at all.  Whatever is of good
report in the life of the author will find its way into the work without
the author even trying.  People: that is what good art has always been
about.  Ideas, philosophies -- those make for good propaganda.

Thom






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU
Date: 07 Nov 2002 10:06:45 -0700

Jana asked:

>So the real question is, do _LDS_ BYU profs have to have temple >recommend=
s,
>pay tithing, attend sacrament meetings, etc??

Yes.  We do.  As a condition of my employment, I have to be temple =
recommend worthy.  i would be anyway, so it's no big deal for me, but =
there have been times when this requirement has been used to try to get =
rid of controversial faculty.

Eric Samuelsen


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JLTyner 
Subject: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 07 Nov 2002 08:42:11 -0800

There is an article by Kieth Merrill today on Meridian Magazine.
"Throwing Stones at Ourselves: LDS Film and Its Critics".

The link: www.ldsmag.com

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] WILSON, _The Prelude to Glory_
Date: 07 Nov 2002 14:12:06 -0800

This is a dumb question but isn't this phone number (Call 310-587-0144) =
in the LA area code?=20

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Jana Riess, Publishers Weekly Religion Book Review Editor
Date: 07 Nov 2002 11:24:01 -0700 

I've recently entered into a correspondence with Jana Riess, the religion
book review editor for Publishers Weekly. She's agreed to do an interview
with Irreantum, and I wanted to ask people for suggestions on questions to
ask her. Seems like a good opportunity to probe the prospects for more
Mormon stories to break out in national venues.

Here's a blurb on Jana we ran in the current Irreantum:

<<<
Since 1999, Mormon convert Jana Riess has served as Publishers Weekly's
religion book review editor. Her reviews, articles, and columns appear
regularly in the trade publication, and she oversees about 100 freelance
reviewers. "I try to give every book a fair shake and an honest read," she
told a Lexington, Kentucky, newspaper. "I think also, as an author, I'm more
sympathetic, because I realize how difficult it is to write a book and how
courageous it is." Last year, religious book sales rose 17 percent and Riess
received review copies of about 2,500 new titles, fewer than a third of
which received review or mention in Publishers Weekly. Raised by an agnostic
mother and an atheist father, Riess attended Princeton Theological Seminary
and earned a doctorate in American religious history at Columbia University,
where she wrote her dissertation about 19th-century female Protestant
missionaries who tried to save Utah women from polygamy. An LDS Church
member since 1993, she lives with her husband and children in Clark County,
Kentucky.
>>>

Thanks in advance for any questions you can suggest.

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _Peculiarities_
Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:19:28 -0700


>The women in
>this play seemed to be much more evolved than the men.  It's the girl in
>"Tahoe" who becomes more and more upset about what has happened; the chick
>in "NCMO" calls the shots; the woman in "Temps" clearly knows what is at
>stake.  Should be generalize about this to all men and all women?  How
>many *really* smart women do you know, as opposed to men?

I didn't reach the same conclusion you did on this issue. The girl in 
"Tahoe" was more disturbed because she had less emotional involvement. He'd 
thought they had something going on beyond a mere physical relationship; 
she was just using him to have fun. I saw her as feeling more guilt because 
she was doing wrong on a deeper level: hurting another person as well as 
hurting herself. That's why she lashed out at him so cruelly. I think she 
blamed him for being her victim.

The chick in "NCMO" was also a user. She knew he was uncomfortable with 
what they were doing, and she knew he was reaching the limits of his 
control. But she pushed and pushed, partly because he wasn't strong enough 
to say "no" and mean it, and partly because her own pleasure was more 
important to her than his feelings.

The young wife, bored and unhappy, is luring a man into a relationship that 
can only end in misery. If she tempts him to the point where he has sex 
with her and they get caught, she will probably blame him for taking 
advantage of her. You can tell she is pretending that it isn't her fault 
because she keeps saying "I gotta go" even though she doesn't.

I have a strong feminist streak (I know, I know, you've noticed), but I was 
appalled by the heartlessness of these women. I'm still trying to decide 
whether that's what was in the play, or that's what I brought to my 
interpretation. The one big generalization I came away with was to wonder 
whether Eric Samuelson knows any women who actually let anybody finish 
their sentences. 

I am glad that Eric brought these issues to light. As I commented in the 
after-play dialogue, when I first encountered the Mormon culture I wondered 
how a people who apparently never had sex somehow had all these babies.

barbara hume


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: [AML] Re: Economics of Polygamy
Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:31:33 -0700

At 01:49 AM 11/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Economist David Friedman, who has done groundbreaking work in applying
>price theory to the economics of behavior, concludes that the availability
>of polygamous (polygynous) relationships is actually better for women &
>worse for men:

That article seemed to have nothing to do with human beings -- it was all 
about equations and prices. Plenty of things that are economically viable 
are not the least bit soul-satisfying.

barbara hume






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cathy Wilson 
Subject: Re: [AML] WILSON, _The Prelude to Glory_
Date: 07 Nov 2002 16:06:34 -0700

Hi,
Steve Perry wrote:"The Prelude to Glory" at the Washington Temple
Visitors' Center. This features the premier performances of Russell
Wilson's landmark musical tribute to the patriots who won American
freedom.  This event is free and open to the public and takes place at
7:00 pm Sun & Mon night. Call 310-587-0144
Cathy,
Is this *your* Russell Wilson, and can you tell us more about it?

Yes, that's us. It will be performed in the Great Hall in the National
Building Museum the following Saturday at 7:00 as well.

Almost four years ago, Ron Carter, author of _Prelude to Glory_ in
conjunction with Deseret Book commissioned Russell to write a musical
performance based on the book series. It's an unusual genre--music about a
book?--but it's only loosely based on the books. It's a full evening of
music, a major work for chorus and orchestra. It will be premiered in
Washington DC and thereafter there will be Utah performances (not yet
scheduled but I'll let you know) and some California performances are
scheduled as well. Although I know Russell would not want me to run to
effusiveness, I must tell you that the work is magical and well worth
going out of your way to attend :).

Cathy Wilson


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana" 
Subject: [AML] Exponent II
Date: 07 Nov 2002 15:25:37 -0800

I received this message from Exponent II today.  I thought it might be =
of interest to those on AML-List who are interested in keeping Ex2 =
alive.

Take care,

Jana Remy

----------------------------

Dear Exponent Supporters; =20

Thank you so much for your support of the publication over these past =
many years.  Some of you may be relatively new to Exponent II, but many =
of you have been with us from our very beginnings in 1974 - we are =
grateful to you all.=20

Though our subscription volume remains at a pretty constant number, it =
has been clear to us for a while now that this number was not sufficient =
to allow us to continue without a large infusion of cash or increasing =
our subscriber roll by at least 300.  Our efforts over the past 2 years =
have not been successful in increasing our subscription base.  We would =
ask that you, our supporters, choose one of these options - or both if =
you are so inclined - as a way to facilitate our continued operation and =
success.  Without additional funds, we cannot afford to publish the next =
issue.=20

Send us a tax deductible contribution and/or gift subscriptions for your =
family and friends.  Of course, this is a great way to "kill two birds =
with one stone".  This would give us the much-needed cash that we =
require, while at the same time increasing the potential for follow-on =
subscriptions when their gift subscription runs out.   =20

Whichever of these methods you choose, we are greatly appreciative.  =
These funds will allow us to publish the next issue, and hopefully =
increase our subscriber base sufficiently to continue to publish into =
the future.

As another means of raising funds, we are immediately raising our =
subscription rates from $15 a year to $20 a year and will no longer be =
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] STEWART/JENSON, "Almost Perfect" (DN)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 00:29:21 +0000

Deseret News
Thursday, November 7, 2002

'Almost Perfect' doesn't come close
By Sharon Haddock
Deseret News staff writer

ALMOST PERFECT, Ragan Theatre, Utah Valley State College,
Orem; continues through Nov. 9; box office: 863-8797. Running
time: 2 hours, 45 minutes (one intermission).

      OREM - Sadly, "Almost Perfect" isn't.
     It's a good start and there certainly are some bright
spots. But overall, as a new musical trying to become a
favorite, it's too long and too uneven to succeed.
      The cast members are troupers, doing their best and
bringing gallons of enthusiasm with them, but the production
is too long - there are 14 scenes in the first act - and the
premise is thin.
      Also, it resembles familiar musicals in a number of places.
      To start, a "Music Man" style con man needs only one more
good con to get where he wants to be =97 but alas, he's undone by
a sweet, ingenuous young maiden who wants nothing to do with him.
      Spats is a "Guys and Dolls" gangster-type who's going to
break the sidekick's legs or marry the ingenue's aunt.
      There's a "Cinderella" type song about waiting for the
prince to come and a Jean Valjean tune later on sung by a lover
whose love is going unrequited.
      In a "Climb Every Mountain" moment, the aunt tries to help
the ingenue figure out what to do with her love for the con man.
      And in a "West Side Story" moment, there's sort of a rumble
at the dock.
      Which is not to say this production doesn't have some
originality. The music box melody "Segue La Voce" is beautiful,
but it's outweighed by those songs and characters that have an
air of deja vu about them.
      In addition, the charming con man Jack Riley - played by
Jeff McLean - is deceiving everyone he meets and only decides
to be good because he wants to con Anna the ingenue (played
winningly by Andrea Ingles) into loving him.
      When Anna is trying to decide what to do about her
feelings for Jack, she's conflicted - as well she should be -
because he's a crook.
      But her aunt is telling her to listen to the force - er ,
voice - and that would mean she should ignore her well-founded
instincts and follow her heart.
      The play also vacillates dramatically and suddenly from
mock comedy to intense drama.
      Is this a light comedy or a deep treatise on humanity? When
you throw in trading arms to Mussolini, it becomes harder to
shrug off embezzlement, betrayal and dumping people into the
East River. It's really too bad that this doesn't work a little
better because it's pleasant enough to watch.
      The choreography is well planned and the acting and singing
is polished.
      Spats's love song is a winner and very funny. There are a
few choice lines, such as "Everything's a con and I am King
Con."
      Eddy, played by Kimball Wirig, did an outstanding job in
a yeoman's part, as did Allison Hawks as the spoiled Viking
bride LaRue Canfield.
      The interlude between Jack and Anna is wonderfully
romantic, although he comes off throughout as kind of a stalker.
In fact, it ends up as "the best stalker wins" in a fairly
simplistic and predictable ending.
      But altogether, "Almost Perfect" is in fact, imperfect.

Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dorothy" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Indian Placement Program Query
Date: 07 Nov 2002 17:27:29 -0800

One of my cousins (who has since retired) was a professional social worker
employed by the church to work in the Indian placement program.  I will
forward this message on to her.  She would be able to answer any of your
questions, I am sure.

Dorothy
________

Dorothy W. Peterson
http://www.lds-index.org
dorothy@lds-index.org


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Clark Goble" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 07 Nov 2002 18:34:17 -0700

 ___ Eric ___
| It's silly to say that Hollywood's preference for attractive 
| people isn't sexist.
 ___

If it applies to both sexes then it isn't sexist.  It might be wrong.
It is discrimination.  But it isn't sexist.  

Call me the semantics police.

 ___ Eric ___
| And it looks as though this Book of Mormon film is buying into 
| that, the most infuriating part of popular culture, this all 
| out sexualization of women even in the most absurd contexts.  
| Why not, instead, show some interesting, diverse faces and body 
| types?    
 ___

Because you are one of the few people who prefer looking at unattractive
people in movies.  Since the point of a movie is to make money,
attractive actors is paramount.  You may not like this fact of society,
but it seems odd to criticize film makers for making movies people want
to watch.  Often the line for profitability is difficult to reach as is.
Things like this are needed.

Unless you have 10 million you want to give the film makers to make the
film your way and let profits be darned.  

 ___ Eric ___
| As for what the characters in the Book of Mormon looked like, 
| we know that, don't we?  Or at least we have two choices.  They 
| looked like the native peoples of the Yucatan peninsula.  Or, 
| they were distinctly and clearly Semitic.  So why is this being 
| cast in SLC, instead of southern Mexico?  Or Tel Aviv?
 ___

As I said, films don't typically focus on how authentic characters look.
Unless the audience expects a certain appearance, film makers will make
characters look basically like the target audience.

They do all sorts of things like this.  Ever notice the standard policy
of making "foreign languages" be all spoken with a British accent?  They
almost never make the accent sound like the real accent unless it is an
accent spoken in English.  

Films take corners like this all the time.  Phone calls, for instance,
are highly stylized and many aspects of film seem to borrow from
phenomena in dreams. 

But the point is, "Who Cares?"  Did it bother you that the characters in
_Gladiator_ didn't look particularly Italian?  

 ___ Eric ___
| When it comes to making a movie about the Book of Mormon, I 
| just have two words to say:  Battlefield Earth.
 ___

There's some truth to this.  I think it is impossible to make a good
movie of the Book of Mormon because there is too much there.  Perhaps a
story of Nephi coming to America.  Or a story of Ammon.  Perhaps even a
story of Moroni.  But the whole thing?  What's the point?

[Clark Goble]





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Clark Goble" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Generalizing from Experience
Date: 07 Nov 2002 18:42:01 -0700


 ___ Robert ___
| The archetypal example of governments attempting to 
| rewrite history comes from 1953 (3 years after 
| Orwell's death).
 ___

It isn't just the winners who rewrite history though, the famous quote
notwithstanding.  Often the losers rewrite their history or at least
write it in a fashion that justifies their existence.  Josephus'
history, while not a formal rewriting of the kind Orwell suggests, is
certainly a rewriting to the Romans to try and justify the Jews after
the end of the revolt.  (Josephus was part of a group who, when defeated
by Roman troops, was supposed to have committed suicide.  Everyone but
he did)

One could argue that to a degree our own history is "rewritten" or at
least presented with a lot of spin-doctoring.  And that was because of
our "losing."  First in Missouri and then in the 1890's in Utah.
Compare the histories that usually get told about us with the more
careful histories.  A lot gets left out or at least de-emphasized.  

An even better example was some of the recent "re-writing" of Canadian
history regarding Indian affairs of the 19th century.  Many sections
were blacked out for political correctness.  Who were the winners and
who were the losers in this case?  What about the efforts of some groups
to portray all Indian tribes as peaceful and very environmental?
Certainly revisionist history by the losers.

Note that I'm not saying that revisionist history is always bad or good.
However it tends to be done across the board and not simply by the
winners.  I think people get upset because people in positions of power
often get to influence others more with their histories.  However lines
of power are difficult things to pin down.  What sometimes appears the
weaker position of power isn't always.  Look at how whispering campaigns
can often destroy people in positions of power.

Anyway, getting back to the original point.  Rather than saying history
is constantly being rewritten by the victors we might rather say history
is constantly being rewritten by everyone.  Rewriting history is simply
a different way of trying to spin doctor what you want.

[Clark Goble]







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JLTyner 
Subject: [AML] New Age Mormons? (was: Epiphanies)
Date: 07 Nov 2002 23:09:57 -0800

Paris has some profound insights into all this.  I've learned a lot from 
him.
(And don't let him bull you about being menacing, it's all a front-he's 
a teddy bear).

I'm newer to the subject, but I have found constant parallels with these 
philosophies
to LDS theology and have found great joy and comfort in it.  Does that 
make us
"New Age Mormons"?  There was a fantastic panel on that very subject at the
Sunstone Symposium last August.  Carol Lynn Pearson was one of the panelists
along with Dan Wotherspoon of Sunstone magazine.  You might want to dial up
their website and get the audio tape of the session, it was enlightening.

As far as a good book goes, I highly recommend "Wheels of Light" by 
Rosalyn Bruyere.
There are several chapters on the Kundalini and it's rise or awakening 
and it functions
to our overall being mentally, spiritually, physically.  Especially good 
are the breathing
exercises for energy and quieting one's mind.  Kundalini relates to the 
first or root
chakra located at the base of the spine or the peritonium area and deals 
with things
like survival, propagation of the race and oneself, and tactile sensation.

Another good book is: "Dahnhak, The Perfect Way To Health"  by 
Seung-Heun Lee.
Excellent breathing, energy, and exercise techniques along with unique 
philosophy.
Also good instruction on meridians, pressure points and visualization 
methods.
I've been doing this practice for about seven months and am amazed the 
difference
its made for the better in my overall health.

Pres Hinckley did say this last Conference that Latter-day Saints don't 
meditate enough.
I'm not sure if he had these techniques in mind, but they help you learn 
"to be still" and
get the chatter out of your mind and that can only help if one wishes to 
use these things
to contemplate Gospel truths.  Pres. Joseph F. Smith's vision comes to 
mind here.

As far as the Mormon Lit connection, other than the Sunstone Panel, I'm 
not sure
there's too much written on Mormons and this topic as of the present. 
 I've been
thinking of something entitled: "Musings of a New Age Mormon"  or 
"Enlightenment
and Chocolate Chip Cookies"  about my experiences with all this.  Maybe 
even a
piece on using Astral Projection to do Visiting Teaching for The Sugarbeet.

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: JLTyner 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 07 Nov 2002 23:20:06 -0800

I've read Michael's excellent manuscript, and he's right-It's not the 
same old feel good
Mormon novel.  It makes you think!  And without dissing the Church, just 
some of
the people that claim membership in it.  The preaching here would really 
shake some
people down to their support hose and then some.  Publishers take note.

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 08 Nov 2002 01:37:44 -0700

I started reading this article but when I got to this sentence,

"For starters, if you get to the heart of Mormon culture, we are
sentimental." 

I had to stop.  Merrill was apparently offering this as a reason why Lee
Benson's savage review of Charly was too harsh.  And, while I agree the
statement is true, I don't agree that it is a good thing.

Yes, our culture is sentimental but our religion (the last I checked the
official books at least) preaches that the glory of God is intelligence,
not sentimentality.  As far as I'm concerned, sentimentality is a
childish version of real emotion.  It is counterfeit emotion.
Sentimentality is easily manipulable (when little Emily sings "Jimmy, o
Jimmy" in Saturday's Warrior, there's not a dry eye in the house.  Do we
tear up because of the idea of Emily not being able to come to earth or
because little Emily is so cute? 

I say, down with sentimentality!  Give me a film that causes real
emotion (like Glory) not fake emotion (live Love Story).

Thom


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] STEWART/JENSON, "Almost Perfect" (Daily Herald)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:40:23 +0000

'Almost Perfect' almost unwatchable
ERIC D. SNIDER The Daily Herald on Friday, November 08

OREM -- "Almost Perfect" is a rare thing: A bad show that makes
it easy to tell where it went wrong.

Let us trace the trajectory of this new musical comedy, written
by Doug Stewart ("Saturday's Warrior") with music by Merrill
Jenson ("Legacy").

The trouble is not in the production. The sets are high-
schoolish, yes, but bad sets do not make a bad show. The live
orchestra, conducted by Sean Jackson, sounds fine. Most of the
singing voices are good enough. The performances are adequate.

Nor is the trouble with the direction, necessarily. James
Arrington keeps the pace up as much as he can -- a near-
impossibility considering how many extraneous numbers bog
down the show.

The trouble with "Almost Perfect" is in its initial concept:
It doesn't have one. There is no story here. It borrows
heavily from "Guys and Dolls" and "The Music Man"
specifically, but more to the point, it borrows from every
major musical theater work of the past 65 years, including a
"dream ballet" that serves no purpose other than establishing
that the authors have seen "Oklahoma!" Nothing in it is original
or new, and that goes for Jenson's perfunctory Generic Musical
Score, too.

Set in 1941 in a watered-down version of the watered-down
version of New York found in "Guys and Dolls," the show focuses
on Jack Riley (Jeff McLean), whom we are told is a con man. His
new idea is to marry rich LaRue Canfield (Allison Hawks) and take
over her father's gun-manufacturing business. He will then
install co-conspirator Eddy Schumacher (Kimball Wirig) as
business manager, skim off the top and make a fortune before the company 
knows what hit it.

Alas, immediately upon seeing Canfield employee Anna Caruso
(Andrea Ingles), Jack falls in love. Somehow, he plans to woo
Anna, not marry LaRue, and yet still get all the money. (He
wants Eddy to marry LaRue instead, which means Eddy will have
plenty of dough; I guess Jack expects him to share.)

The conflicts are all standard musical-theater fare, as are
their resolutions. What's stunning is how little effort is put
into conveying them. For example, I knew LaRue and Eddy would
wind up together -- they're both secondary characters, played
mostly for laughs; that's what happens to characters like that
-- I just assumed the show would have it make sense somehow. But
no, LaRue randomly decides, not two minutes after screaming about
her undying love for Jack, that she's REALLY in love with Eddy.

Doug Stewart knew he had to get LaRue off Jack's case so Jack
would be free to marry Anna. All I can think is that Stewart
couldn't think of a way to make that happen logically, so he gave
up trying. Explaining what occurs in this show is like explaining
a dream: "So LaRue's totally in love with Jack, but then she's in
love with Eddy instead" makes as much sense as, "So I'm in my
house, but then it's not my house anymore, it's an IHOP."

Jack's a jerk, too, which is a hindrance. "Bad" guys who need to
reform are one thing. Lying, conniving, manipulating, dishonest
jackasses are something else. How is the audience expected to stay
with the show when the lead character is so unlikable?

Another character, Claudio (Clay Elder), is in love with Anna,
which could make for a love triangle -- except that he's given
an unnecessary character twist that removes any possible suspense
over whom Anna will choose.

I get the sense that everyone was doing the best with what they
were given. Show up with bland dialogue, bland music and bland
lyrics and yeah, you're going to get a bland show.
D+

Copyright 2002 by HarkTheHerald.com



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 08 Nov 2002 02:55:46 -0700

JLTyner wrote:
>=20
> There is an article by Kieth Merrill today on Meridian Magazine.
> "Throwing Stones at Ourselves: LDS Film and Its Critics".
>=20
> The link: www.ldsmag.com


This article started out sounding like its conclusion would irritate me.
Then Merrill appeared to swerve into sense-making territory as he
insisted that LDS films must stand up to the most stringent criticism.

But then he ruined it with the last paragraph (death wish paragraph,
Eric?):


"My final point is one I=92ve made before. If you fail to support the
movies by LDS film makers who struggle to make a difference and who want
to create family friendly films that run counter to popular culture =96
however imperfect and flawed their early attempts =96 then you forever
forfeit your right to complain about Hollywood and the steady decline of
popular culture."


Bullcookies! I have no obligation to support films that I think are no
good. Dutcher didn't need any wobbly-legged-giraffe period to come out
with a critically acclaimed LDS film. He did it with his first one. And
he did it back when everyone said LDS film couldn't be done. Why should
we cut the latecomers any slack?

(If you don't understand the wobbly-legged-giraffe reference, you didn't
read the article!)

--=20
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] KEMP, _The Welcoming Door_
Date: 08 Nov 2002 12:00:19 +0000

Harper San Francisco (a division of Harper Collins specializing
in inspirational books), has just released Kenny Kemp's newest
novel, The Welcoming Door: Parables of a Carpenter. It is the
first volume of a planned trilogy of novels about Jesus
(Jeshua) as a young man, living out some of his future parables.

Kenny (an AML-List member we have heard from from time to time)
has his own web page about his movies, books, and other projects,
which I found recently.  There is a page of blurbs about the new
book, including a review from Publisher's Weekly.  Here is an
excerpt from that review:

"Deftly, Kemp creates a Jeshua who is human, who sometimes
doubts himself, who becomes exhausted and frustrated, but who
is the kind of man readers will wish they could work alongside
or have as a brother. Such a thoughtful treatment of what Jesus
would do when confronted with the characters and events of the
parables makes this novel an effective and engaging illustration
of Christian theology."

The page about the book is:
http://www.alta-films.com/books_twd_main.htm

Kenny also has a page about writing the book:
http://www.alta-films.com/books_twd_essay.htm

Kenny is a model of an author who parlayed recognition
gained through his self-published works (I Hated Heaven and
Dad Was a Carpenter) to achieve a national book deal.

The Welcoming Door looks pretty good, I plan to get it for
Christmas.

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kathy Fowkes" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Jana Riess
Date: 09 Nov 2002 06:54:35 -0700

There are few books currently available written by women scholars who
understand the mindset of our 19th century sisters. Jana Riess's articles,
including her Protestant missionary article which I've read, are just the
kind of scholarship many LDS would like to see more of. Does Riess have any
intention to write a full-length book about 19th century mormon women?

And on the side, does anyone know where can I obtain these other articles
she's written on the subject, including the following:

1. No Zenanas in Zion: Mormon Women's Pro-Polygamy Discourse, 1870-1890,
Columbia University

2. Sister-Wives: Mormon Women and Polygamy, Columbia University

3. "Worthy of Imitation": Mormon Pioneer Women as Heroines in the Late
Nineteenth Century, (Sunstone 1996)

Thanks!

Kathy Fowkes



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred C Pinnegar 
Subject: Re: [AML] Kofford Books (New Publisher)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 08:59:15 -0700 (MST)

I am tremendously disappointed at how long it has taken Kofford Books to get
Boyd Peterson's excellent biography of Hugh Nibley out the door. What has it
been--five years now since I received your announcement that it would be out
soon? And I still can't get a straight answer from Boyd about when it will be on
the shelves.

Fred Pinnegar


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Teaching at BYU
Date: 08 Nov 2002 08:40:36 -0800

I guess I see this as being different from having to have a temple
recommend.  For example, I could be doing all of the things described below
but still not have a testimony of the Savior.  I guess it's not all that
important to me personally (since I am a card-carrying Mormon), but I"m just
curious....

Jana Remy

>  This is from a brochure I received upon being hired as part-time
> staff last week (and was read to me during the policy review):
>
> "As a matter of personal commitment, students, staff and faculty of
> Brigham Young University seek to demonstrate, in daily living, those
> moral virtues encompassed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and will:
>
> - Be Honest
> - Live a Chaste & Virtuous LIfe
> - Obey the Law
> - Use Clean Language
> - Respect Others
> - Abstain from Alcoholic Beverages, Tobacco, Tea, Coffee and Drug Abuse"
>
> In addition, the web site states "It is a condition of employment
> that employees observe the behavioral standards of the University,
> including the Honor Code and Dress and Grooming Standards. LDS
> employees also accept as a condition of employment observance of the
> standards qualifying them for temple privileges."


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:34:32 -0700

At 11:12 AM 11/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I envision a movie filled with big-muscled, oily-skinned, weight-lifters, 
>something akin to the Steve Reeves movies of the 60s.  If this turns out 
>to be the case, the BofM movies will have two widely diverse target 
>audiences--devout LDS, and gay men.

Hey! Straight women enjoy this kind of scenery, too!  When my son was in 
competitive bodybuilding, I didn't exactly suffer while waiting for his 
turn on the stage. (He was always the best one.)

Someone described Arnold Friburg paintings as "prophets on steroids."

To be fair, I do doubt that those men looked like today's sedentary, 
overweight couch-potato office workers. (Ooops, I just described myself.)

barbara hume, in a strange mood today







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Jana Riess
Date: 08 Nov 2002 09:47:45 -0700

At 11:24 AM 11/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Raised by an agnostic
>mother and an atheist father, Riess attended Princeton Theological Seminary
>and earned a doctorate in American religious history at Columbia University,
>where she wrote her dissertation about 19th-century female Protestant
>missionaries who tried to save Utah women from polygamy.


That dissertation would make an interesting read, I'll bet.

barbara hume






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons? (was: Epiphanies)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 10:12:59 -0700

I'm impressed, Kim.  I've done Hatha Yoga, and kundalini Yoga has been
recomended to me, but I've never found a teacher for Kundalini Yoga.  I've
settled on Toaist Ch'i Gung (also spelled Qigong).

As I understand the goal of yoga is to raise energy to the upper chakras and
leave it there.  Yoga teaches the Nadis (also called the governing vessel)
is a one way road, going from the sacrum. up the spine into the head and
eventually connecting the person to heaven.  I guess that's fine for most
people, but I had a massive head-injury.  If I get any excess energy in my
head and leave it there I get a horrible, blinding head-ache.  Then, of
course, there's that "divine madness" thing.  I already have a little
problem with insanity and I don't want to add fuel to the fire.  So for me
yoga was out.

The goal of Budhism is to transend the body, making healing irrelevant.
There are schools of Ch'i Gung that are heavily influenced by Budhism, but
I've never investigated because healing to me is paramount.  I need it.
Other people need it.  Budhism rejects it.  Just to get even I reject
Budhism.

The mandate of Taoism is to strengthen the body.  To achieve this they clean
out and strengthen the energy flows (organ meridians and strange flows).
This is a never-ending process.  It leads to healing of the physical body.
It leads to mental and emotional healing (which I need).  It leads to
spiritual tranquility and bliss.  It leads to love and respect for all of
creation (ten thousand things, as the taoists say.)

One of the strange flows Toaist Ch'i Gung works on is the Main Central
Channel.  The back half of this channel is called the governing vessel
(equivalent to the nadis).  Toaist teach energy can flow in either
direction, but it is most beneficial for it to flow toward the head.  The
front half is called the conception vessel (which yoga ignores--at least I
haven't found anything about it).  It Brings energy back down the front of
the body and helps a person connect with both heaven and earth.  This makes
Toaist Ch'i Gung much safer than Yoga.  Most people don't have to worry
about that.  I do.  Toaist Ch'i Gung also concentrates on the three Tan
Tiens.  Which is
a concept foreign to Yoga.

I volunteered to teach T'ai Ch'i in my ward.  They didn't take me up on it.
Just as well  I don't think anybody would have gone.  People in my ward
seem to be a little wary of me.  I guess trading punches with the second
councilor didn't help much.  I feel really bad about that.  I don't know
what happened.  But, John the Baptist was a looney, too, so maybe there's
room for me.

Good Luck,

Paris Anderson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Melanie Dahlin 
Subject: Re: [AML] Lee Benson on _Charly_
Date: 08 Nov 2002 11:10:48 -0700 (MST)

I understand your point of view.  You have a very persuasive argument.  I agree
that Weyland's novels are not the best, or even good, representations of Mormon
Literature.  (I am not promoting his literature.)  I also agree, with the other
comments made, that better quality literature will only result if readers
develop their skills of literary analysis and criticism.  I suppose what I have
been trying to say is that we should at least consider the efforts of the past
"pioneers" and use them as stepping stones to reach higher literary quality.  It
coincides with the old cliche, "Learn from the past, live in the present, and
plan for the future."  All is not lost in the LDS film and literature industry
just yet.  I would say more and clarify my meaning, but I don't have any more
time.  

---Melanie Dahlin                              





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 08 Nov 2002 11:54:30 -0700

Kathy Tyner wrote:

> There is an article by Kieth Merrill today on Meridian Magazine.
> "Throwing Stones at Ourselves: LDS Film and Its Critics".
>
> The link: www.ldsmag.com

Merrill makes some excellent points in this article. There *are*more Mormon
films being made right now than ever before, and I consider that to be a good
thing.

However, as Merrill chides Lee Benson for disliking "Mormon cheese" (and I have
to point out that there is also a far less pleasant medical definition of
"cheese" that seems more likely as the foundation for the epithet "cheesy") he
falls into his own trap of defining sentimentality as the base state of Mormon
culture--effectively arguing that "true" Mormon stories somehow must be
sentimental or soft to be truly Mormon.

While I have as many problems with easy sentimentality as most, I've gone to
great lengths to defend the right of the sentimental story to both exist and be
appreciated as a true reflection of *one* aspect of Mormon culture. Merrill is
right; our culture and doctrine does directly support certain kinds of
sentimentality, a certain hope that things can be right and wonderful and
perfect all the time. It would be wonderful if we could always find the kernel
of hope or the moment of grace or the outpouring of love and charity at all
times and in all places.

But while many of us hope for that kind of a social/cultural utopia, complete
with instant spiritual gratification and reward, some of us also see very little
of it in practical experience. Many of us see the struggle followed by either an
ambiguous or utterly lacking spiritual reward. We exercise faith but get no
clear feedback. We hope for goodness but see little of it.

These are also true Mormon stories. In claiming that sentimentality is part of
Mormon culture, let's not fall into the trap that Merrill himself warns of by
claiming that it is *all* of Mormon culture. Not all gifts are given to all, and
not everyone comes to understanding, peace, or acceptance by the same method.
There are more true stories to be told, by more methods and metaphors than we're
seeing. Sentimentality may be a reflection of one part of Mormon culture, but
it's not the whole of our culture and it shouldn't be the sole functional voice
of our culture. I hate the fact that 13 of 14 new Mormon films are sentimental
message films, because that tells the rest of us that our struggles are not
perceived as worthy or valid.

There are more stories to be told--more true testimonies to be shared--than can
be encompassed in a sentimental package. Until we stop declaring this or that to
be *the* Mormon story or *the* true reflection of Mormon hope, we create
artificial divisions among ourselves that have no meaning. Let us hope that
those who want to tell difficult or violent or struggling stories aren't
excluded from the screen because all available slots are filled with sentimental
films.

To Merrill's credit he disagrees with Benson in a mostly polite manner. We
should not be afraid to argue our ideas and share our beliefs on this or any
other matter. The day disagreement over what Mormons "should" be producing stops
is the day when we have either completely succeeded in becoming one, or the day
that we have utterly failed and lost our ability to choose. Until then, let the
arguments continue. But let's at least try to be civil about it.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Russ Asplund 
Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 08 Nov 2002 14:20:01 -0700 

Yuck!

"Yeah, I know I the roof leaks and the foundations is cracking--but I built
this house in order to spread the gospel, and if you don't buy it, I won't
be able to build better quality houses in the future."

"Oh, I fixed your engine, but it doesn't get very good gas mileage and smoke
pours out the rear end. But it's hard raising money as an LDS mechanic, so
not paying me would only show your support of godless mechanics."

>From the article:

	My final point is one I've made before. If you fail to support the
movies by LDS film makers who struggle to make a difference and who want to
create family friendly films that run counter to popular culture - however
imperfect and flawed their early attempts - then you forever forfeit your
right to complain about Hollywood and the steady decline of popular culture.

I say: No I don't. I criticize Hollywood for its unmitigated sleaze every
bit as much as I criticize some LDS movies for their unmitigated
sentimentality. I don't have to choose to like one or the other--I can be
appalled by both. And I can demand and support movies that deliver what I
want. No other profession would ever claim that they should be supported
just because they have good LDS motives--well, okay, a lot of Utah MLMs do
exactly that, but that's the same kind of inappropriate pressure I feel is
trying to be excerted here.

Hating Charly and I'll Build You A Rainbow does not make me morally
inferior. The fact is, when friends die there usually isn't a miracle to let
you know they are okay on the other side--there is just faith. I'd rather
see stories  that celebrate the strenght that is required to maintain faith
in what is often a cold and uncomforting world than stories that provide
fictional comfort food. And I will not buy and enjoy any art simply because
it pretend to believe what I belive--or even if it sincerely believes what I
believe. It has to be good and I have to like it. Otherwise, it doesn't get
my money--or even my silence.


Russell Asplund


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Russ Asplund 
Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 08 Nov 2002 14:33:39 -0700 

Sorry, one more quote I had to being up:

	Granted, such delicate matters must be masterfully handled, but if
main stream movies, dealing with Mormonism, are to have the impact that
these faithful LDS film makers have in mind -- filled as they are with faith
and youthful idealism -- they must be made with the kind of pointed honesty
- even sentimentality -- that is possible and important.

Am I the only one that thinks that Sentimentality is the enemy of Pointed
Honesty, not it's result? Pointed Honesty would require the admission that
sometimes prayer are answered with a no. Sometimes the sick aren't healed
and sometimes good people make mistakes. Even in the Book of Mormon we see a
village put to the flame, and Alma powerless to stop it. Mind you, we also
need to show that sometime miracles do happen--but without admitting that
sometimes they don't, I feel we don't stand a chance of reaching the outside
world. 

Sentimentality, to me, is an attempt to appeal to reflexive emotion--the
same way a shock comedian knows they can get a laugh by dropping the f-bomb.
Deep emotion, on the other hand, it thoughtful and reflective. Like true
humor, it's a lot harder to evoke than the reflexive kind, but it seems to
me that deep, true emotion is the goal of all great art. Sentimentality is a
mere cheap imitation of  that--and someone needs to be able to sort the true
gold from fools gold.

Rock on Lee Benson. Fight the good fight. If the movie was that good, they
would have written 1000 words on how great it was--not 1000 words attacking
it's critics.

Russell Asplund


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons? (was: Epiphanies)
Date: 08 Nov 2002 14:33:07 -0800

Kim:

A good connection of yoga/LDS faith is in Olga Camporava's book, _Saints
Behind Enemy Lines_.  Though it doesn't discuss much of yoga as a
discipline, it tells the story of how yoga brought her and other young
Czechs to the gospel before the Velvet Revolution.

I feel indebted to Olga for inspiring my own yoga practice--I've studied for
several years, under different teachers.  I'm still a novice, and I somtimes
struggle with the postures because of my physical disability, but it's still
a great blessing in my life.

Perhaps we could have a "Mo-ga" session/mediation at the next AML Conference
:)

Jana


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cathy Wilson 
Subject: Re: [AML] WILSON, _The Prelude to Glory_
Date: 08 Nov 2002 15:59:22 -0700



Jerry Tyner wrote:

> This is a dumb question but isn't this phone number (Call 310-587-0144) in the LA area code?
>
> Jerry Tyner
> Orange County, CA

Sure looks like it. I don't know much about the promotional aspect of this. I know Deseret Book
is promoting and I don't know what else is being done.

Cathy Wilson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cathy Wilson 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 08 Nov 2002 16:04:03 -0700

I've been teaching about the brain and its chemistry at school and it
made me curious about the whole process of epiphany and bliss and so on.
We heard on the news that scientists think there is a "God spot" in the
limbic system in the right temporal lobe that activates when we are
praying or connecting with God. That's interesting, to pinpoint the
actual place that gets active when we are alive spiritually. Over time I
have trained myself to "go into" that state of delight and bliss and
connectedness. My kids at school sometimes ask if I'm "on something" and
I just tell them that they can take themselves there without any drugs.
I find that prayers of gratitude and acts of kindness are very sure
paths to that blessed state of bliss.

Cathy Wilson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 09 Nov 2002 02:25:16 -0700

Clark Goble wrote:
> 
>  ___ Eric ___
> | It's silly to say that Hollywood's preference for attractive
> | people isn't sexist.
>  ___
> 
> If it applies to both sexes then it isn't sexist.  It might be wrong.
> It is discrimination.  But it isn't sexist.

I believe the word is "lookist."


> They do all sorts of things like this.  Ever notice the standard policy
> of making "foreign languages" be all spoken with a British accent?  They
> almost never make the accent sound like the real accent unless it is an
> accent spoken in English.

I don't know what you're talking about here. You mean foreign people
when supposedly speaking in their own tongue, but really speaking
English on screen for the sake of the audience, use a British accent to
indicate foreignness? Then I have to disagree. Every WW2 film on Earth
has Germans speaking with German accents. It's obligatory.


> Phone calls, for instance,
> are highly stylized and many aspects of film seem to borrow from
> phenomena in dreams.

I have no idea what this means.


> I think it is impossible to make a good
> movie of the Book of Mormon because there is too much there.  Perhaps a
> story of Nephi coming to America.  Or a story of Ammon.  Perhaps even a
> story of Moroni.  But the whole thing?  What's the point?

I didn't know any of the current Book of Mormon projects _were_ doing
the whole book in one movie. I thought they were planning a series of
movies.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] SAMUELSEN, _Peculiarities_
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:22:48 -0700

Barbara' Hume's analysis of PECULIARITIES is so astute. Nobody knows she's a
master at romance--but I found out she has a romance novel that won some
second prize in a national contest and is being looked at by a big romance
publisher. I'm impressed! She certainly has a savvy for the ins and outs of
relationships. And I thank Eric Samuelsen for giving us in PECULIARITIES
something really substantial to sink our teeth into! Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 09 Nov 2002 08:53:44 -0700

Thanks, Kathy, for calling our attention to this! I am so impressed with
this article, "Throwing Stones at ourselves" in Meridian! Its content
expresses every notion I've ever believed about the difference between our
Mormon art and the art of the nation. I also wish Eric Snider would take
this article to heart. The words of President Kimball: "Our motion picture
specialists must be purified by the best critics," (and this goes for
literature also) admits the vitriolic writing of Eric Snider as something we
must pay attention to! But I love the compassion in Kieth Merrill's voice.
Thanks, Meridian for a terrific read! Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: lwilkins@fas.harvard.edu
Subject: Re: [AML] Jana Riess
Date: 09 Nov 2002 13:32:22 -0500

Jana recently had a book published called _The Spiritual Traveler: Boston and 
New England_ (or something similar). I'd like to know something about her 
experiences working on that book, and whether Mormon 'sacred spaces' played a 
role for her. 

Laraine


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jim and Laurel" 
Subject: RE: [AML] AML Conference Question
Date: 09 Nov 2002 19:54:23 -0700

I appreciated the responses to my question - I've passed on the
information to my friend and I expect Kofford and/or Cedar Fort will be
hearing from her soon. Thanks for all your help!

Laurel Brady





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Adams 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 09 Nov 2002 21:59:08 -0600

Apparently, Jacob, I've struck a nerve, and I apologize. Allow me to try to 
clarify. But most of your post actually validates what I was trying to say, 
even though you were disagreeing with me.

>Speaking as someone who has lived in the "mission field" (though I haven't 
>heard it called that since I was a kid) for your proscribed five years and 
>more, I have been trapped in Utah the last three and a half years and I 
>can tell you that you don't have the whole picture.

No, I'm sure I don't; but observe your own words, "trapped in Utah" and 
remember please that my comments were not actually directed to you: my post 
was geared toward native Utahns, as should have been clear. I was talking 
to people who have never left the state. You are not a native Utahn. And by 
your own admission, you feel trapped. So would I. You are not pleased with 
many of the aspects of living in Utah. I agree.

I was in Utah only three days last weekend, and heard my home called the 
"mission field" at least once. Members of my ward from Utah _still_ call 
Missouri the "mission field," after living here over seven years. I'm 
*surprised* you haven't come across it at all yet. (I was also offered 
green jello for breakfast. I politely declined, and about died laughing.)

On a personal note, so you may know that I *am* more aware of how it is 
there than I came across, I have watched my immediate family, ALL of them, 
leave Church activity as a direct result of living IN UTAH. True, I only 
spent the obligatory four BYU years living there, but my family lived there 
longer. I know how it was for them. I observed many heart-wrenching things 
happen to my family as a result of interacting with Utah Mormons, beginning 
with unpleasant reactions of Utah ward members to my sister (moving home 
after her first divorce: the dreaded Single Mother), and increasing when my 
mother attempted going to a new ward alone, the wife of a  
_less-active_ man. The stigma! No, I can honestly report, you won't find 
those shameful attitudes *nearly* so prevalent outside Utah.

My family left Utah after enduring all they could take. My brother, I am 
happy to report, is going back to church, after many trials of his own. The 
social damage my parents and my sister suffered may prove irreparable. I 
don't know if they will ever return to activity in Church. My parents, I 
believe, still have testimonies somewhere, but my sister's might well be 
shattered. It's hard to say; I'm the last to judge, and will be the 
happiest to see them come back into the fold.

>We are not the clear majority we used to be and that has cracked our 
>provincialism to an extent yet to be recognized in our literature or art.

Isn't that part of what I was trying to say? That such things are NOT 
recognized in our literature or art, and ought to be?

>Salt Lake has as much vice as any other city its size and the problems 
>that go with it. It also has as much opportunity for expansive experience 
>as any other city its size and possibly more.

I didn't say the vice and problems weren't there. And my city, Kansas City, 
is probably less cultured overall than Salt Lake is. I've been hard-pressed 
to find theater of any sort alive and well, outside the obligatory 
big-budget Broadway tours and a couple of dinner theaters doing "popular" 
shows with traveling celebrities. The Missouri natives are a breed all 
their own (Mormon or non), possibly funnier than Utah Mormons and even more 
homogeneous. I wasn't commenting on similarity of actual life experience, 
so much as a mindset I found apparent from several comments prevalent at 
the conference. You weren't there to hear them, though. One person 
mentioned, "We're so geographically isolated." I had to scratch my head. 
Millions of members worldwide? Isolated? No, he must have meant Utah 
Mormons. I certainly don't feel isolated in any sense. I don't have that 
unique-to-Utah perspective of Us vs. The World Outside. (Another reason 
Brigham City was so *excellent,* BTW, was that it dramatized this 
perspective very well.)

>Second, those who are *not* LDS are often actively hostile to Mormons to 
>an extent I did not find outside Utah.

Yes, and have you stopped to think about WHY that is?

>  I've been threatened with physical violence for being "one of those 
> arrogant Mormons" during a traffic dispute that would have ended with a 
> simple finger wave anywhere else.

Exactly. "Arrogant Mormons." That is the reputation. Mormons who ward off 
their children from playing at non-members' houses. Mormons who keep to 
their own kind, and if you are not interested in becoming one, will treat 
you as a sub-citizen.

>(who complimented me for not being a typical Mormon, whatever that 
>means--I should probably be offended).

No, it probably really is a compliment. Because you probably don't 
subscribe to the behaviors I described above (both of which I personally 
know have happened), and that's a *good* thing. I have a close friend who 
came back into activity after a long absence, and she claims/blames me for 
it in part--she says I showed her, through being myself, that she didn't 
have to be a typical "Molly Mormon" (i.e. perfect) to be a _good_ Mormon. 
No, canning fruit is not a requirement to enter the Celestial Kingdom. 
Amazing concept.

>  Regular business relations are heavily complicated by my
>Mormonism here in ways that would have no meaning outside Utah.. [snip]. . 
>. It's tense and it's
>inevitable and there is no cure for it as long as Mormons are a
>substantial part of the population here.

I know that. That's what I was fussing about. "Getting out more" might help 
solve these problems. Help the natives relax a bit. It's a good thing to 
get a feel for how it is in other places.

The way I see it, if we're to be the salt of the earth, and all that salt 
is squashed into one place, that's not Salt Lake, that's a Salt Lick. And 
salt licks are not a form of salt that is easily ingested by most human 
beings. Salt is not meant to be that concentrated. It's just not a good 
thing. So get out and scatter that salt.

>Third, Mormons here are no more likely to invite the missionaries in than 
>anywhere else I've ever been.  Less likely in most cases because most of 
>our non member friends not only have Book of Mormons, they've likely had a 
>number of discussions, probably know who their Stake President is, and 
>have attended a missionary farewell within the past
>year (well, if they have kids anyway).

Well, that describes a good chunk of my non-member friends too, especially 
the closest ones. Because I do tell them about what I believe; otherwise 
they can't understand me fully and I have to spend unnecessary time 
translating lingo. It's easier to take them through a few discussions to 
explain it.

>Finally, I'd love to get out more, but I'd rather have a date with
>Melissa (who is sadly neglected, frankly) than try to find common cause
>with the hunter across the street.

Going out with Melissa IS getting out. :-) You need to do that! Of course 
your family has higher priority than outside friendships. But my comments 
were not personally directed at *you.* And I meant, get out of Utah more. 
Which you probably wouldn't mind too much either--if it were a viable 
option, wouldn't you prefer going back to the Northwest?

I'm sorry; I probably have offended more than one of you, who aren't 
speaking up. All of you Utah natives can please write in and holler at me 
about how wrong I am about your state. And I'm not saying there aren't good 
things to be had there: do you know how cool it is to live in close 
proximity to at least ten operating temples? Do you realize how nice it is 
NOT to have to drive four hours each way and do very creative babysitting 
arrangements, just to go through one temple session? That you don't have to 
wait for one such special trip just to buy your underwear? That if you feel 
like it, you can just hop up to the Conference Center in April and bask in 
the presence of the Prophet? Do you know how nice it is to stand in line 
and make a comment about stuff you're getting for Relief Society, and the 
sister behind you understands? How nifty to see garment lines on so many 
people and know you're in good company? To mention you have six kids and 
NOT have people faint dead away from shock? Yeah. Utah does have some cool 
features.

. . . I was simply trying to present the POV of an outsider of some 
prevalent attitudes I noticed while I was at the conference. And to me, a 
simple solution is that if you leave the state, it's easier to gain a 
better perspective on how it is in the rest of the world. Because in the 
"rest of the world," non-members are not so hostile towards you as they are 
in Utah. Really. Business relationships are not so strained. Really. You 
just go to the obligatory Staff Happy Hour at the bar-and-grill and order 
milk. And you learn that Deer Hunt opening day is NOT a "national" holiday. 
And by golly, surprise, surprise, neither is July 24th. Our Mormon oddities 
are greeted with a simple, mild curiosity. (My husband has regular "So what 
do you do for. . .?" type conversations with his Muslim boss.)

All I'm saying is I seemed to encounter some odd assumptions during the 
workshop sessions of the conference, that didn't fit with my experience as 
one who has lived most of my life outside the Book of Mormon Belt. And if 
the LDS publishing and artistic industry is operating on those assumptions, 
they are missing a whole lot of the rest of the story.


Linda





Linda Adams
adamszoo@sprintmail.com
http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis Manning" 
Subject: [AML] Mary Lythgoe Bradford Query
Date: 09 Nov 2002 22:57:35 -0700

I am doing some research and need to locate Mary Lythgoe Bradford.

Does anyone have her email address? If you don't feel comfortable giving it to me directly, could you at least foward this message to her and ask her if she wouldn't mind responding directly to me.

Regards,
Travis Manning
Manning_Travis@hotmail.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 10 Nov 2002 10:38:56 -0700

I won't say anything, Linda, but your post to me funny.  To quote Lao Tsu:

Forty-seven
Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go, the less you know.
Thus the sage knows without traveling;
He sees without looking;
He works without doing.

Paris Anderson

(I am currently copying and binding the Tao Te Ching as a Christmas present
for my old home teaching companion.  My best friends never know that I like
them except on Christmas.)






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: sregor 
Subject: [AML] re: Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 10 Nov 2002 17:47:25 -0700


I was recently directed to the AML website by a friend that indicated
negative comments were being made about the Book of Mormon Movie.  I
must say it was amazing and even humorous to read many of the comments
that were completely erroneous.  For example;  On November 1st, Andrew
Hall stated: "the Book of Mormon Movie will be directed by Gary Rogers
who mostly has done advertisements and has been an assistant director on
a few TV shows."  Where in the world is Andrew getting his information?
I have never been an assistant director on a TV show in my life?

On October 31st, Thom Duncan stated: "this project is horribly
underfunded and will probably stink to high heaven if it ever gets done
in the first place."  Where is Thom getting his information?  No details
of the budget have been released, other than the movie will be a
multi-million dollar production!

As I said, I had to laugh at most of the comments.  However, I was
appalled at some of the comments made by Eric R. Samuelsen.  In a post
on November 1st, Mr. Samuelsen took issue with my decision to hire
non-union talent.  I have no problem with that and would be happy to
explain the reasons for this decision at anytime.  Hiring non-union
talent is a very common practice that is being done every day in the
industry and has been for years, especially with independent pictures.
I have worked with hundreds of actors over the years, both non-union and
union, including academy award-winning actor, Charlton Heston.  It is
what Mr. Samuelsen said next that bothered me.

Mr. Samuelsen stated in his November 1st, post:  "young actors trying to
get a break into the industry are vulnerable enough and desperate enough
that you can really take financial advantage of them."  He went on to
say:  "this casting call, though, for the Book of Mormon film, well my
heck.  Practically every word is a red flag.  'No SAG actors.' : in
other words, we have no plans to treat actors fairly, or pay anything
close to a standard working wage.  So who can possibly have written a
Book of Mormon screenplay, which you never know, may well have involved
actually reading the Book of Mormon, and from that come to the
conclusion that, in filming it, it's okay to grind in the faces of the
poor like this?  I mean, lots of filmmakers make the decision going in
that they're not going to behave ethically, but, uh, this is a film
based on the Book of Mormon."  Samuelsen continued to say: "how may I
count the ways in which these yokels have proved that they have no idea
what they're doing.........they're going to cut every corner they can,
financially and ethically."

Mr. Samuelsen has made false charges, misrepresentations, defamatory and
slanderous statements that I do not take lightly.  If Mr. Samuelsen had
bothered to check the facts, he would have found that every single
principal actor in the Book of Mormon Movie is being paid wages ABOVE
union scale.  In fact, "Nephi" will receive nearly two and one half
times more money than he would have if we paid him union wages!  To make
comments without foundation, that we are going to "take financial
advantage" of people, "not pay anything close to a standard working
wage," and to state in a public forum that we are "not going to behave
ethically," is disgusting.

People are certainly welcome to their opinion, but to print false and
slanderous comments is a disgrace.  I know that EVERYONE wants nothing
more than to see a beautiful motion picture on the Book of Mormon.  I
can certainly  understand people's concerns and anxieties..........but
please get the facts straight.

Gary Rogers





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] LDS Cinema Articles (DN, Daily Herald)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 01:30:04 +0000

Deseret News
Friday, November 8, 2002

'Singles Ward' a lightweight of an LDS film
By Chris Hicks
Deseret News feature editor

       Although I'm not sure why, people often ask my opinion
of the "Mormon Movies," the recent crop of pictures by LDS
filmmakers about the LDS culture that have followed in the wake
of Richard Dutcher's success with "God's Army" and "Brigham
City."
      So far, I've gone on record about just two - "God's Army,"
when it initially hit theaters (and turned out to be such a
delightful surprise), and "Brigham City," when it was released
on DVD last April.
      Now it's time to discuss a third as it lands on DVD -
"The Singles Ward," the only comedy of the lot. (Which I'm sure
will be followed in fairly quick succession by "The Other Side
of Heaven," "Out of Step," "Handcart" and "Charly"; we'll take
those on as they arrive.)

      "The Singles Ward" (Halestorm, 2002, PG, $24.95). When I
saw this in a theater - despite the laughter of the
twentysomethings around me - it struck me as little more than
a bigger-budget roadshow.
      What little plot there is has to do with a divorced,
inactive LDS standup comic who falls for a woman in his singles
ward. Silly comic subplots and characters abound, and then
things get mawkish when she is offended by his standup act,
which includes jokes about Mormon culture. (She is so lacking a
sense of humor that she would also hate this movie!)
      "Singles Ward" is really just a series of skits =97 some
good, some mediocre, some awful - and the performances are a mix
ofprofessional and amateurish, including the LDS celebrity guest
cameos. (Just because you're having fun on the set doesn't
necessarily mean it will translate to the audience.)
      The film's jokes and colloquialisms are extremely inside;
those unfamiliar with the culture may be lost. And, of course,
most gags play off of broad stereotypes.
      Having watched it again, I still find much of it puerile,
but I did chuckle here and there. It really plays better on the
small screen, where its flaws have less impact.
      Extras: Most of these are quite clever, and many are more
amusing than the film itself. Widescreen, outtakes, music videos,
Jell-O recipes, interactive games, trailers, DVD-ROM
applications.


      PERHAPS THIS IS ALSO a good place to note that some of LDS
filmmaker T.C. Christensen's beloved short films are finding
their way to DVD (priced at $11.95 each).
      The still-hilarious "The Mouths of Babes," an LDS spin on
Art Linkletter's old "Kids Say the Darndest Things," along with
the more generic Christian "Son of Babes," are on one disc. And=20
Christensen's gorgeous "The Touch of the Master's Hand," adapted
from the famous Myra Brooks Welch poem, has also been given a
nice DVD treatment. (Christensen provides both discs with
entertaining, self-effacing audio-commentary tracks.)

Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company



The Daily Herald
Sunday, November 10

Filmmakers looking to cash in on LDS movies
C.G. WALLACE Associated Press Writer

SALT LAKE CITY -- Odds are long that any of the LDS-themed
movies flooding Utah screens will duplicate the small-budget,
big-return success of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," a $5 million
movie that's earned more than $185 million -- so far -- at the
box office.

LDS moviemakers may be holding out for crossover appeal. But
even if they don't make $100 million, a market filled with the
state's religious majority is sure to keep cameras rolling.

But critics are complaining, and some of the genre's own
directors fear quality is succumbing to quantity.

Richard Dutcher, known among the denomination's cinema
aficionados as the "Mormon Spielberg," is unhappy with the
small movie trend he started with the film "God's Army," a
tale about missionaries working in Los Angeles which cost
$240,000 but netted $2.6 million.

"I wanted it to bring all these LDS filmmakers and writers out
of the woodwork. But now that I see how it's gone, however,
I'd like some of them to go back into the woodwork," Dutcher
said.

Seven LDS-themed films have popped up on local screens since
2000, and the trend of independent movies about and for
members of the faith is building momentum.

The films have a 1950s sensibility about them, unsurprising
given that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints are discouraged from watching R-rated films. Sex,
swearing and graphic violence are all absent.

Recent works have included an earnest film about LDS
missionaries, a murder-mystery and a romantic-comedy. Five
more films are expected to open here this spring.

"The Singles Ward," a guy-meets-girl romantic comedy, is
essentially a series of inside jokes about Mormons, from the
scrap-booking opening credits (Mormons love scrap-booking) to
good-natured jabs at the church's polygamist past.

For example, at one point the romantic lead turns to the
camera and complains about the reaction from fellow church
members to being dumped by his wife: "Our ancestors were able
to handle four or five wives and you can't handle one? What's
the deal?"

Dutcher had hoped the success of his movie would draw out the
faithful within the entertainment business. Instead, he says,
it spawned a series of poorly made movies with an LDS stamp.

Sean Means, movie reviewer for the state's largest newspaper,
The Salt Lake Tribune, says films like "The Singles Ward,"
"Handcart" and "Charly" mark a sophomore slump for LDS cinema.
They're plagued by bad scripts and boring plots, he says.

Because they aren't good enough to succeed elsewhere, Means
says, they end up being marketed squarely at locals. And there's
enough of an audience here to pull down a profit; the church
claims 70 percent of Utah residents.

"The Singles Ward" was made for $400,000 and made almost $1.5
million, said director and producer Kurt Hale. Now there are
200,000 copies at video stores.

Fifteen-year-old Jennifer Eggett's family is a perfect example
of what moviemakers have in mind when they eye an LDS audience.
When "The Other Side of Heaven" -- the story of a farm kid who
becomes a missionary in the remote Tongan islands -- hit
theaters, Jennifer's grandmother declared it a family movie
night for all 36 members of the clan.

Jennifer said she liked the movie. "It made me cry. It's good
for people to know the real truth about Mormons."

But critics will be critics.  "At the moment the mindset is:
It's a movie about Mormons, let's go see it," Means said. "But
a few more movies of questionable quality and they'll get over
it."

Thomas Baggaley, who runs the Web site www.ldsfilms.com, agrees
that too many LDS directors are banking on a guaranteed LDS
audience.

"They weren't saying come watch the film because it's a good
film, they were saying come see this film so there can be more
of these films. I don't think that argument is going to work
for very long," Baggaley said.

"Now we have more films about us and it's not such a novelty.
And that's a good thing. That will force the films to become
better," he predicted.

Hale will release two more Mormon-themed comedies. The first --
"The R.M.," about a return missionary -- will hit Utah in
January. The other -- "Church Ball," about church basketball
leagues -- will be out in January 2004.

There's no shortage of material, or self-deprecating humor,
Hale said. "We can make 50 movies based on how strange we are."

Copyright 2002 by HarkTheHerald.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LDS Film Festival  (by way of Jonathan Langford )
Subject: [AML] Festival Starts Tomorrow
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:43:40 -0600

MAILBOX NEWSLETTER #9/2002
http://www.ldsbox.com
feedback@ldsbox.com


GET READY FOR THE 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002
NOVEMBER 13-16 | PROVO CITY LIBRARY


IN THIS ISSUE:
1. FESTIVAL PROGRAM FINALIZED
2. THE 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON STARTS TOMORROW
3. SCREENPLAY COMPETITION PROGRAM AND JUDGING UPDATE
4. IMPORTANT FESTIVAL LINKS


1. FESTIVAL PROGRAM FINALIZED

The 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002 will take place this week Wednesday through Saturday, November 13-16, at the historic Provo City Library. The program for the festival is now finalized. 

For admissions information go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/tickets.php

The following filmmaker's presentations have been added to the schedule: Spanish director Jose Maria Oliveira ("The Dead, the Devil and the Flesh"), documentary filmmakers Matt Whitaker and Rick McFarland ("Saints at War," "Truth and Treason: The Helmuth Huebner Story"), producer Greggory Peck ("Christmas Mission," "Cowboys and Angels") and distributor Linda Thomson ("Saturday Warriors", "Out of Step").

Other participating filmmakers are: Kurt Hale and Dave Hunter ("Singles Ward," "The RM"), Adam Anderegg and Micah Merrill ("Charly"), Lee B. Groberg ("American Prophet," "Sacred Stone: The Temple at Nauvoo"), Dean Hale (Distributor of "God's Army," "The Other Side of Heaven"), Gary Rogers ("Book of Mormon Movie") and Nathan Smith Jones ("The Work and the Story").

Four competition programs including the Female Filmmakers program plus the 24-hour filmmaking marathon will be screened Wednesday through Friday at 5.00 and 7.30 p.m. The "Best of 2002" program will be shown on Saturday at 5.00 and 7.30 p.m. 

We have also added a script reading of the winning short screenplays on Saturday, November 16, at 3.00 p.m.  Screenplay judge Eric Samuelsen will lead the discussion. 

Musical guests are Fiddlesticks (Thursday night), Dave Eaton and Ambiguous Sun (Friday night) and Stephanie Smith (Saturday night). 

For a detailed outline of the complete festival program go to:
http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php


2. THE 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON STARTS TOMORROW

The LDS FILM FESTIVAL is launching its first 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON tomorrow morning at 10.30 a.m. Get together with a group of friends and be part of this exhilarating competition. 

No pre-registration is necessary. Just sign-up at 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, November 13, at the Provo City Library at Academy Square. You will receive a theme for a short film that you have to finish in 24 hours. On Thursday, November 14, no later than 10.30 a.m. you hand in your finished film. That same evening at 5.00 p.m. your film will be screened and judged at the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL. 

You will be allowed to use any equipment and format of your choice. You have only 24 hours to write, shoot and edit your film. Your finished film can be no longer than 5 minutes. No more than five people (cast and crew) per group will be allowed to take part. You need to know your team members when you sign-up. At least one member of the group needs to be present for sign-up and drop-off. No foul language, sexual content or graphic violence will be permitted. All films must be completely original and all permissions must be retained for any copyrighted media.

The entry fee is $ 20.00 per participating group. 60% of the entry fee goes to the price money. All participants contribute to the prize money that will be awarded to the winner of the 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON (for example: if 25 groups participate the price money will be $ 300.00). You will also receive 2 free tickets for the screening on Thursday at 5 p.m. 

Additionally, the best film will be part of the "BEST OF 2002" program and tour around the world. This is your chance to become an accomplished filmmaker in 24-hours...


3. SCREENPLAY COMPETITION PROGRAM AND JUDGING UPDATE

The winners of the short script competition will be announced on Friday, November 15. The winners of the feature script competition will not be announced until the end of November. We want to make sure that every script is read by several judges and justly evaluated. We are now halfway through the judging process.

We have added a script reading of the winning short screenplays on Saturday, November 16, at 3.00 p.m.  Screenplay judge Eric Samuelsen will lead the discussion. Everyone is invited to participate in the reading. 

To view the finalists for this year's screenplay competition, click on one of the following links: 
Short Script Finalists 2002: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist2.php
Feature Script Finalists 2002: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/finalist3.php


4. IMPORTANT FESTIVAL LINKS

The following festival links will provide you with helpful information:

ADMISSIONS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/tickets.php
FESTIVAL PROGRAM OVERVIEW: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM A: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsA.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM B: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsB.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM C: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsC.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM D: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsD.php
FILMMAKER'S PRESENTATIONS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/filmmakers.php
SPECIAL SCREENINGS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/screenings.php
LDS FILM FORUM: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/filmforum.php
24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/marathon.php
FESTIVAL JUDGES: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/judges.php











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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Women in DeVore BofM Movie
Date: 10 Nov 2002 21:13:11 -0600

Tony Markham wrote:
>>I don't know why either of the B of M movies is even thinking of casting
women in this film, as they are largely absent from the source text.

Women are likely to have large onscreen roles in both Book of Mormon film
projects. One of the women left unnamed in the Book of Mormon -- Nephi's
wife -- is given a name in the Neil Newell script for the
DeVore/Smoot/Swofford/Peter Johnson Book of Mormon project ("Voice from the
Dust: Journey to the Promised Land"). Nephi's wife is named "Miriam." The
official website even has a picture of her... quite a striking woman. 

Preston Hunter
www.ldsfilm.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] Richard Evans Profile (SL Tribune)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 01:35:41 +0000

Salt Lake Tribune
Evans Moves to Italy in Search of Respect, Time With Family
Sunday, November 10, 2002

BY CHRISTY KARRAS
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

    His story is enough to inspire envy in any aspiring
novelist. Local businessman writes book, pounds the pavement
selling it. Said book smolders for a while, finds an audience
and takes off faster than a bottle rocket. Several subsequent
best sellers later, he does what anyone dreaming of writing a
successful novel might consider: He packs up the family and moves
to Tuscany.
    Richard Paul Evans says anyone green with envy should know
that the move hasn't been easy. The kids were unhappy about it
from the beginning, but soon, homesickness set in for the entire
family. "We promised them, if this is just an awful idea, we'll
come back in three months," Evans said. Obviously, everything
worked out, because he said it by telephone from his Florentine
villa.
    He moved to Italy to get away from the pressure of being an
icon in his home state. A victim of his own success, he no
longer could stand the constant stream of attention that was
wearing down his family and draining his creative energy. "We
went to Italy to shake up our lives a little bit. Life was too
complex. I wasn't seeing my children anymore -- not just because
of my schedule but because of theirs. Italians are always
together. It seemed almost impossible to have that lifestyle in
Utah," he said.
    Life is good for Evans. He has the best sellers, starting
with The Christmas Box nearly 10 years ago, the money, the
family, the villa. The onetime Republican political strategist
and marketing guru still thinks of every book launch like a
campaign and still agonizes over sales figures, which he tracks 
meticulously. Still the master of self-promotion (from a letter
to fans promoting his latest book: "If I say so myself, one of my
most captivating novels"), he is thrilled with every piece of publicity, 
every bit of good news. But he is still searching for
that last great prize: respect.
    Despite his books' commercial success, many critics have been lukewarm 
to scathing in their assessments. (USA Today lashed
Timepiece, for example, for its "dreadful execution, confused
plot and poor writing," and said the book contained "some of the
very worst bantering ever committed to print.")
    Evans knows he didn't start out as a great writer. He recalls hearing 
that no one should publish a book before writing six of them. "I didn't have 
that luxury. I had to develop publicly."
    He is pinning his hopes on his latest novel, The Last
Promise, which in a lot of ways is nothing like his previous work.
It has nothing to do with Christmas. It is set in Italy, not Utah,
and involves Catholics instead of Mormons. And it involves
distinctly adult, if not adulterous, relationships.
   Evans had wanted to write an all-out love story for a while,
and when he moved to Italy, the idea moved to the forefront. "In
a sense, all my books have been love stories, but as my agent
says, they've been low simmer," he said.
    Though he didn't want to be like the dozens of authors who
have moved to Italy and written about it, the place did inspire
him. He was especially intrigued by the temple of Vesta and the
Vestal Virgins, who were required to forswear love in order to
serve the goddess of home and family. If they fell in love and
broke their vows, they were buried alive. "I'm thinking, surely
no one ever did it. But 18 of them did and were buried alive,"
Evans said. "These women were willing to risk everything for
love."
    The catalyst, he says, was meeting an American woman who told
him about her unhappy life as the wife of a chauvinistic Italian.
She wanted to leave him and take their child back to America, but
he wouldn't let her. The book's plot developed from that, but
Evans included an American man who becomes the American woman's
paramour. Evans hurries to correct any ideas that she actually
commits all-out adultery, though. "This is not The Bridges of Tuscany, " he 
said, referring to the best-selling Bridges of
Madison County, in which a lonely housewife has an affair with
a stranger passing through town.
    Still, it's a far cry from the simple, heartwarming stories
he is known for. And the book's conclusions about love's triumph
over convention may raise a few eyebrows among his conservative
fans. Evans says anyone upset by the message doesn't get the
point.
    "I know I will get some criticism from some people who don't
get it. It deals with some issues that people would be
uncomfortable with," Evans said. But "anyone who would have a
problem with it is a hypocrite. This is a woman who has been
abused, who needs some love in her life. I believe we have the
right to be loved. And I have real trouble with anyone who
doesn't believe that."

   At Borders
    Richard Paul Evans will sign copies of The Last Promise
Wednesday at noon at the downtown Borders (in the Crossroads
Mall) and at Media Play, 5546 S. Redwood Road, Taylorsville,
at 7 p.m.

Copyright 2002, The Salt Lake Tribune

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Eclipse Film Festival Winners
Date: 11 Nov 2002 00:26:46 -0600

The Eclipse Film Festival, one of the finest film festivals held in Utah
each year, took place in St. George on Nov. 9 and 10.

The 29 films which were selected as finalists, from a much larger pool of
entries, came from all over the world.

The winners, announced at the festival late Saturday night, were:

Best Picture: Soledad
Best Director: Christian Vuissa "Roots & Wings"
Best Screenplay:  Maria Perez "Roots & Wings"
Best Cinematography: Jim Orr "Soledad"
Best Actor: Reggie Willis "Soledad"
Best Animation: "Bug-Beat"
Audience Choice: "5 Minutes"


"Roots & Wings" depicts a Mexican immigrant family in which the father
struggles as members of his family adopt American ways and Latter-day Saint
faith. The film previously won major awards (including the Audience Award,
Best Screenplay, and Best Actor) at BYU's Final Cut film festival. It has
also won awards in national film festivals. Christian Vuissa, who won the
Best Director award at Eclipse, is the founder of the LDS Film Festival,
which will be held this coming week in Provo, Utah. A special screening of
"Roots & Wings" will be featured at the LDS Film Festival, but the film, of
course, is not in competition. Screenwriter, a Latter-day Saint convert of
Mexican background, drew on her own background in writing this sensitive,
award-winning screenplay.


The Eclipse Film Festival judges this year were:
Chris Hicks - Deseret News Feature Editor
Rocco DeVilliers =AD Producer/Director
Philippe Denham - Producer/Director
Jennifer Buster - Casting Agent
T.C. Christensen - Cinematographer


- Preston Hunter, www.ldsfilm.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Chamberlain" 
Subject: RE: [AML] WILSON, _The Prelude to Glory_
Date: 11 Nov 2002 07:27:26 -0700

I think it's Long Beach/ Santa Monica.

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Tyner
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 3:12 PM


This is a dumb question but isn't this phone number (Call 310-587-0144)
in the LA area code? 

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: [AML] Recent Spoken Word
Date: 11 Nov 2002 07:08:31 -0700

My compliments to the person who wrote *The Spoken Word*  for Sunday's =
TabChoir broadcast.  I was busy and only listening casually, so I can't =
quote it carefully, but I can give you the gist of the piece.  The =
picture was painted  of walking down the lovely tree-lined street of a =
small quiet town.  The malls and shops are closed for Sunday worship.  =
We approach a prominent intersection where four churches of different =
denominations grace each corner.  We begin to hear beautiful  hymns of =
praise with pleasing synergism drifting forth from the churches.  We =
stop to listen to the music and we are filled with love, gratitude and a =
feeling of peace.  What would be the effect if we took the time to =
listen to the music of others?  I am seeing a paradigm change in the =
texts of these messages.  This is a good thing and it is about time.  =
This theme has a two-fold meaning for me.  As a former choir director =
and a ward music chairman of many years, I set up choir exchanges with a =
Lutheran church in California and  two different Protestant churches in =
Texas.  Here in Draper my group The Women of Note have sung at a =
community non-denominational church on many occasions.  I have to say =
that participating in the musical part of these worship services was =
very pleasant and rewarding and far more uplifting than most of the hymn =
singing in our church.  We have marvelous choristers and organists in =
our ward, but NO ONE SINGS.  Some don't even open their books.  How can =
we sing with the spirit and feel joy doing it and still meet the church =
guidelines for acceptable sacrament meeting music?  Dare I suggest that =
some of us write some new hymns, or is this not the answer.

Nan McCulloch


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Susan Malmrose" 
Subject: [AML] _Brigham City_ (Movie)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 08:12:40 -0800

I finally was able to rent Brigham City and watched it this weekend. Really
enjoyed it, although it was kinda trippy to see so much Mormonism in a
movie. :)

I watch a lot of crime drama on tv, like the Law and Order shows, CSI.
Whenever there's a scene where parents are being told their child has died,
I always think to myself, "Nope. That's not what it's like, at all. They're
getting it totally wrong."

But Brigham City got it right. The scene where the parents are told their
daughter has been found dead--the father's immediate sob, the mother knowing
before she's even told--just rang totally true for me.

Susan M






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] Exponent II
Date: 11 Nov 2002 09:50:17 -0700

Quoting jana :

> I received this message from Exponent II today.  I thought it might be =
> of interest to those on AML-List who are interested in keeping Ex2 =
> alive.

At the risk of sounding completely out of touch, what is Exponent II?  What 
kinds of articles do they have?  How often does it come out?  Perhaps other 
folks out there might be interested in knowing this, too.

I remember my mother used to get it when I was a kid.  I looked at it once or 
twice, but I thought it looked boring.  But I was a kid then.

Thanks!

--Katie Parker




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Willson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 11 Nov 2002 19:08:16 -0800

D. Michael Martindale wrote:

>Here we go telling writers what they should write again.
>Why on earth shouldn't we write to our own people, for >heaven's sake?
> What makes you think all the lost sheep are "out there" >among the
Gentiles? I wrote my novel _Brother >Brigham_ for a Mormon audience.

Good for you, D.! That is your prerogative. What makes you think I'm
*telling* writers what they should write? Just because I said -
>>we need  to reach out to the lost sheep.- doesn't necessarily mean we all
have to do it. I merely meant to suggest that some of us focus more on the
world outside our own culture and shed some light on the reality of the
Church and Kingdom of God on earth. After all, I think the "others" are in
the majority and we are commissioned by Christ to spread the word. By the
way, I agree with you many of our own members are amongst the lost sheep,
and they might be looking for their literature amongst the works written for
the mainstream.
I apologize if what I say is  offensive to you. I only wish to express my
opinion, we all certainly are entitled to  have one, and wouldn't it be
awful if they were all the same.

Regards,
Bill Willson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lynette Jones 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 11 Nov 2002 22:42:07 -0700


>>D. Michael Martindale wrote:
>
>
>Why on earth shouldn't we write to our own people, for heaven's sake?

We certainly do not have to write to try to gather sheep.  That may be 
offensive to a person's intelligence, in my opinion.

Remember, some of the best literature which has brought people into contact 
with the church was written for the general public and embraced by 
Latter-day Saints as their own.

I think that in our American, "Puritan based society", the most important 
thing we fail to do, especially for men, is to validate their feelings.  It 
is when we begin to do this honestly and sincerely, we will begin to be 
"found" by some of the best minds in this nation.  Those feelings cross all 
barriers and all common in all walks of life.

Lynette Jones






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lynette Jones 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 11 Nov 2002 22:57:39 -0700

At 10:37 AM 11/7/2002 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >Amen! I think we do quite enough `preaching to the Choir' as
> >it is; we need to reach out to the lost sheep. If we have
> >found the way, we need to leave a trail for them to follow,
> >and then go out into the wilderness and heard them into the fold.
>
>I don't think you are saying this, but I'm going to use your statement
>as a jumping off point nonetheless: Hearding people into the fold should
>never be the sole reason one creates art.  In fact, I would go so far as
>to say that it should never be a reason at all.  Whatever is of good
>report in the life of the author will find its way into the work without
>the author even trying.  People: that is what good art has always been
>about.  Ideas, philosophies -- those make for good propaganda.
>
>Thom

Ok, now let's get back to the point.

Andrea Lewis wrote:

>Writers do need to be honest about the audience to
>which they are writing, and readers need to be more honest to be able to join
>that audience and enjoy the greatness of our own literature along with 
>that of
>the larger literary tradition.

         I would like to make a point here that what we are all seeking for 
in depth is honesty.  We can not be conscientious believers in the Gospel 
of Jesus Christ as taught by a church which we hold to be the true and 
living Church of God on the earth without being totally committed to 
honesty.  Honesty is admittedly sometimes painful.  But it can also be the 
doorway to truth and light.  In fact, I would like to suggest that the 
point at which truth is painful is a turning point in our lives where we 
hear Satan and choose to bitterly turn from God and more truth and into 
darkness, or we hear the Holy Ghost and turn toward God, light and more 
truth.
         The test of which way we will turn is there for each of us when we 
come to that point.  Are not the greatest authors the ones who can bring a 
reader to such a point and then show them that the first painful step 
toward brighter light is rewarded by fulfillment, validation of worth, 
peace and eventually the joy that comes from pure love flowing through us 
to others.  Only when it flows through us to our deepest enemies can we 
feel it in fullness.
         Can we not do this on different maturity levels?  At my Grandma 
DeFonda's Funeral two weeks ago, her library was opened up for all her 
descendant's who came to the funeral.  Through the gracious generosity of a 
cousin, I was able to collect several volumes of lit. about Shakespeare and 
one book that contained what was judged to be his best works.  In the front 
of the volume of Shakespeare, DeFonda had written in quotes, though with no 
reference the following statement:
         "...when reading a book, it is the reader who is on trial."  I 
would tend to disagree with this.  This came from the time when everyone 
was expected to be on the same level.  It is time that we brought the 
gospel message to all levels in and out of the church.
         I see this happening with varying amounts of success right now.  I 
am wondering if we could just stop dissing authors and readers and really 
develop a working model which will to some degree helpful for authors to 
gage their readers as they write.  Some can do it instinctively.  I think, 
however, that others try to write to a group on a level foreign to that 
group.  Perhaps a worse situation is when authors write on a level that is 
foreign to the group they are trying to commune with.

Lynette Jones


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 11 Nov 2002 23:34:16 -0700

 Cathy Wilson wrote:

> I've been teaching about the brain and its chemistry at school and it
> made me curious about the whole process of epiphany and bliss and so on.
> We heard on the news that scientists think there is a "God spot" in the
> limbic system in the right temporal lobe that activates when we are
> praying or connecting with God. That's interesting, to pinpoint the
> actual place that gets active when we are alive spiritually. Over time I
> have trained myself to "go into" that state of delight and bliss and
> connectedness. My kids at school sometimes ask if I'm "on something" and
> I just tell them that they can take themselves there without any drugs.
> I find that prayers of gratitude and acts of kindness are very sure
> paths to that blessed state of bliss.

On a completely tangential note, there was an interesting science fiction novel
published late last year (or early this year) called _Distance Haze_ by Jamil
Nassir that deals with this idea of the "God spot" in such a way as to allow for
belief in God as something more than just a biochemical response.

Of course the problem is cause and effect. Jamil makes some interesting
arguments about how such a mechanism evolves in the brain, what the alleged
survival value of such a mechanism is, and whether such evolution is purely the
result of natural selection.

Mo-lit connection...the book was recommended to me by an active Mormon, and the
book features a lapsed Mormon character on the scientific team that's
investigating the phenomena. Not a book for everyone--a fair amount of violence
and a fair amount of meaningless or manipulative sex--but one of the more
interesting attempts to explore the nearly universal human trait to worship
something.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Amy Chamberlain" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 11 Nov 2002 23:29:14 -0700

Well, Linda, all I can say is that maybe there are two parallel Utahs?
Because the state you describe isn't at all like the state where I (mostly)
grew up.

With very few exceptions, I've found that Utah Mormons are more tolerant,
more generous, more cultured, and generally more knowledgeable about the
world in general than are Mormons outside of Utah (and, yes, I have lived
outside of Utah--fairly extensively).

The non-Utah Mormons that I've met are generally much more uptight about the
"rules" and doing things "just right" than the Utah Mos are. I guess that's
why Utah has so many baptisms--the Mormons here are nicer.

Just my experience. I generally roll my eyes and laugh when I hear Utah
Mormons stereotyped so negatively, because I have to assume that the speaker
has never been here. But you have. So my answer is a shrug and a bemused
"huh."

Amy Chamberlain


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Morgan Adair" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Kofford Books (New Publisher)
Date: 11 Nov 2002 23:46:30 -0700

>>> fcp@email.byu.edu 11/08/02 08:59AM >>>
>
>I am tremendously disappointed at how long it has taken Kofford Books to =
get
>Boyd Peterson's excellent biography of Hugh Nibley out the door. What has =
it
>been--five years now since I received your announcement that it would be =
out
>soon? And I still can't get a straight answer from Boyd about when it =
will be on
>the shelves.

As there is an advance reading copy for sale on the Deseret Book auction =
site even as we type, I'd guess that the wait will not be long.

http://deseretbook.com/auctions/show-auction?auction_id=3D135312

MBA






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 12 Nov 2002 00:09:55 -0800

"Am I the only one that thinks that Sentimentality is the enemy
of Pointed
Honesty, not it's result?" asks Russell Asplund.

We find ourselves in that gray area where language, meanings and
nuances of words begin to color the understanding of our ideas
and what we are trying to communicate. As I read through the
posts about LDS film (and which can be extrapolated to the
written word as well) I found myself becoming confused as to the
meaning of "sentimentality" and "sentimental" as being used by
list members. So I did the dictionary thing:

sen=B7ti=B7men=B7tal
1 a : marked or governed by feeling, sensibility, or emotional
idealism
b : resulting from feeling rather than reason or thought
2 : having an excess of sentiment or sensibility

sen=B7ti=B7men=B7tal=B7i=B7ty
the quality or state of being sentimental especially to excess or
in affectation

I don't know about the rest of you, but this feelings vs.
reason/thought (see 1b)is one of the top issues my husband and I
discuss in our marriage. It's very shaky ground when one person
begins proclaiming how another "ought" to feel, or the type of
response they "should" have to given stimuli. Fact: feelings
exist. They are different for everyone.

Move it to a discussion of literature and film--does that mean a
work that emphasizes "feelings" over action/plot is less than?
People who are more rational and less emotional in their approach
to the world certainly aren't going to be moved by it...more
likely annoyed. But (as my husband will tell you I've said many
times) that doesn't make people who approach the world through
feelings wrong. Why does it devolve into a right/wrong,
correct/incorrect, more artistic/less artistic argument? Why
can't both sides just be, enriching the world through their
differences? If you don't feel comfortable in one arena you'll be
less likely to hang out in it, but why point fingers at those who
like it there? Why the condescending tone towards them?

It almost "feels" like the age old and very tired argument about
male/female roles and reactions (refer again to 1b under
"sentimental" above).

The thing each should ask him/herself is if the work in question
has moved into the realm of "affectation". That would be the
opposite of honest. Where that line is will be markedly different
for different folks. Most of us will have the social grace not to
belittle or try to fix those who see the line in a different
place than we do. Except maybe the critics...who have the amazing
job description of trying to convince others that their point of
view is the "correct" one, who get paid to draw their line in
full public view, and who get to suffer the slings and arrows of
everyone who disagrees with them. More power to them I say
too--they are brave souls. And they definitely get the rest of us
thinking and talking about it. As a woman I can say I "feel"
talking is a good thing.

Kim Madsen





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jacob Proffitt" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 12 Nov 2002 00:34:29 -0700

---Original Message From: Linda Adams
> >Speaking as someone who has lived in the "mission field" (though I
> >haven't
> >heard it called that since I was a kid) for your proscribed
> five years and
> >more, I have been trapped in Utah the last three and a half
> years and I
> >can tell you that you don't have the whole picture.
>
> No, I'm sure I don't; but observe your own words, "trapped in
> Utah" and
> remember please that my comments were not actually directed
> to you: my post
> was geared toward native Utahns, as should have been clear. I
> was talking
> to people who have never left the state. You are not a native
> Utahn. And by
> your own admission, you feel trapped. So would I. You are not
> pleased with
> many of the aspects of living in Utah. I agree.

I don't feel trapped because of the people here.  I *like* the people
here and that is my point.  I hate the climate.  I hate deserts.  I want
to go back to Washington state because I like rain and green things.

> I was in Utah only three days last weekend, and heard my home
> called the
> "mission field" at least once. Members of my ward from Utah
> _still_ call
> Missouri the "mission field," after living here over seven years. I'm
> *surprised* you haven't come across it at all yet. (I was
> also offered
> green jello for breakfast. I politely declined, and about
> died laughing.)

Haven't seen green jello yet, going on 42 months (orange and red, maybe
some yellow).  Haven't heard "mission field" in that long, either--not
as an identifier to take seriously at any rate.

> On a personal note, so you may know that I *am* more aware of
> how it is
> there than I came across, I have watched my immediate family,
> ALL of them,
> leave Church activity as a direct result of living IN UTAH.
> True, I only
> spent the obligatory four BYU years living there, but my
> family lived there
> longer. I know how it was for them. I observed many
> heart-wrenching things
> happen to my family as a result of interacting with Utah
> Mormons, beginning
> with unpleasant reactions of Utah ward members to my sister
> (moving home
> after her first divorce: the dreaded Single Mother), and
> increasing when my
> mother attempted going to a new ward alone, the wife of a
> 
> _less-active_ man. The stigma! No, I can honestly report, you
> won't find
> those shameful attitudes *nearly* so prevalent outside Utah.
>
> My family left Utah after enduring all they could take.

Right.  How long ago?  Things have changed drastically here even in the
last two years.  We have had, and continue to have, a flood of new
immigration (some from other states, but others from Mexico, South
America, California and the Pacific Islands).  And Utah's shell of
provincialism has suffered possibly fatal set-backs.  The stigma your
mother felt is gone--at least from my ward.

> >We are not the clear majority we used to be and that has cracked our
> >provincialism to an extent yet to be recognized in our
> literature or art.
>
> Isn't that part of what I was trying to say? That such things are NOT
> recognized in our literature or art, and ought to be?

I don't think that's what you were saying.  You were saying that we need
to get out of Utah to overcome faults I'm not sure we have.

> You weren't there to hear them, though. One person
> mentioned, "We're so geographically isolated." I had to
> scratch my head.

Sometimes, those in the vanguard are the last to recognize changes back
in the ranks...

> I don't have that
> unique-to-Utah perspective of Us vs. The World Outside.

And I don't find that perspective here.  No more than any other area
emerging from a provincial past.

> >Second, those who are *not* LDS are often actively hostile
> to Mormons
> >to
> >an extent I did not find outside Utah.
>
> Yes, and have you stopped to think about WHY that is?

As a matter of fact, yes.  I think about it a lot.  Two things I've
noticed.  First, I found fliers from Christian fundamentalist
denominations actively recruiting their members to move here to
"Christianize" us.  This shouldn't be a big surprise because it is only
natural that those motivated by a hatred of something will turn their
efforts to the largest concentration of it they can find.  You see the
same thing in Israel as well.  This action has been apparent throughout
the history of the church and contributes to feelings of persecution.
Fortunately, with increasing immigration, hostile immigration is
thinning and the hostility is increasingly apparent for the nuttiness it
is.  And where the church has public visibility, their opponents want
and receive it as well.

Second, Joseph Smith pointed out that the presence of the gospel has a
polarizing tendency.  Those following the gospel will tend to be
elevated, but those sinning will tend to harden themselves as well.  You
see that with fallen Nephites (who were always more wicked than their
Lamanite brethren).  Utah has enough of a population of bitter
excommunicants to make their voices heard in ways not possible in other
places.

And I'll point out that this is going to be a dynamic present *anywhere*
you find concentrations of Mormons.  It has nothing to do with members
getting out more.  It flows from fundamental aspects of human nature.

> >  I've been threatened with physical violence for being "one of those
> > arrogant Mormons" during a traffic dispute that would have
> ended with a
> > simple finger wave anywhere else.
>
> Exactly. "Arrogant Mormons." That is the reputation. Mormons
> who ward off
> their children from playing at non-members' houses. Mormons
> who keep to
> their own kind, and if you are not interested in becoming
> one, will treat
> you as a sub-citizen.

And that *doesn't* *happen*.  Not in my ward, or in my area.  The
Mormons are open and inviting and not in the stereotypical way commonly
depicted as mercenary and shallow.

> >  Regular business relations are heavily complicated by my Mormonism
> >here in ways that would have no meaning outside Utah..
> [snip]. . . It's
> >tense and it's inevitable and there is no cure for it as long as
> >Mormons are a substantial part of the population here.
>
> I know that. That's what I was fussing about. "Getting out
> more" might help
> solve these problems. Help the natives relax a bit. It's a
> good thing to
> get a feel for how it is in other places.

It has nothing to do with getting out more.  It has to do with the raw
concentration, not the attributes of the population.  As long as this is
a terrestrial world, this strain is going to exist wherever you have
large concentrations of LDS people.  It isn't curable because the cause
isn't the provincialism you decry.  You can't make the Mormons so
perfect that non-Mormons will not view them with any skepticism.  You
can't make the non-Mormons so easy-going that they won't be a little
self-conscious doing things they know Mormons don't do.

> The way I see it, if we're to be the salt of the earth, and
> all that salt
> is squashed into one place, that's not Salt Lake, that's a
> Salt Lick. And
> salt licks are not a form of salt that is easily ingested by
> most human
> beings. Salt is not meant to be that concentrated. It's just
> not a good
> thing. So get out and scatter that salt.

Pretty, but not terribly relevant.  You could as easily draw on the
preservative attributes of salt and pack ourselves around the meat of
the gospel to keep it fresh for the hard times ahead.  The point of the
"saltiness" metaphor is that we don't weaken and find ourselves cast
out.

> >Finally, I'd love to get out more, but I'd rather have a date with
> >Melissa (who is sadly neglected, frankly) than try to find
> common cause
> >with the hunter across the street.
>
> But my comments
> were not personally directed at *you.* And I meant, get out
> of Utah more.
> Which you probably wouldn't mind too much either--if it were a viable
> option, wouldn't you prefer going back to the Northwest?

Sure.  But you'd have a hard time paying me enough to move to New
Mexico, Texas, or Arizona.  My dislike of Utah isn't population-based...

> . . . I was simply trying to present the POV of an outsider of some
> prevalent attitudes I noticed while I was at the conference.
> And to me, a
> simple solution is that if you leave the state, it's easier to gain a
> better perspective on how it is in the rest of the world.

And my point is that you don't have to leave the state to gain
perspective.  Too many of us are bogged down in judgments passed decades
ago that are no longer descriptive of our environment.  Too many of our
artists are painting with their eyes shut.  Getting out more isn't going
to help if you keep the blinders up.

> All I'm saying is I seemed to encounter some odd assumptions
> during the
> workshop sessions of the conference, that didn't fit with my
> experience as
> one who has lived most of my life outside the Book of Mormon
> Belt. And if
> the LDS publishing and artistic industry is operating on
> those assumptions,
> they are missing a whole lot of the rest of the story.

Most of us would agree that the publishing and artistic industries are
missing a whole lot of the rest of the story.  I just attribute the
cause differently than you have.

Jacob Proffitt






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] re: Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 07:40:07 +0000

I'm sorry that my comment was innacurate, I looked up the
name "Gary Rogers" on idmb.com, the best place to look up the
history of film and tv casts and crews.  I came up with
a Gary Rogers that had worked on some TV shows, so I thought
that was the one, sorry.  It appears the BOM Movie Gary Rogers
has no known dramatic film history.

I saw a message from an actor on a Utah actors' list
(www.playersanonymous.com) that the
BOM Movie web site casting call page changed around the time
the call occured, it no longer says anything about "appearance",
rather: "All actors must be in excellent physical condition,
with EXCEPTIONAL acting talent and ability."

The actors on that list were all pretty positive about the
experience.  Some excerpts:

"Met the producer, who is also the producer of Charly, by the
name of Lance Williams. He auditioned us, and was very nice
without being gushy. He made no attempt to weed out the
unattractive. He simply expected us to fill out the information
sheets, and give a monologue."

"I thought Mr. Williams was very patient with the less-than-professional."

"I couldn't believe how aweful some of the people were. I
thought people would be more prepared then they were. I also
noticed that they didn't attept to "weed out the unattractive."
Overall, the producer, casting director, director and all the
other prodution staff was super nice."

Of course, niceness is no assurance of anything in the future.

Anyway, sorry (just for myself) to Gary Rogers, we tend to be
more gossipy here then we should sometimes.  I hope you stay on
the list and give us updates occasionally on how the movie is
going.

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


Gary Rogers wrote:
For example;  On November 1st, Andrew
Hall stated: "the Book of Mormon Movie will be directed by Gary Rogers
who mostly has done advertisements and has been an assistant director on
a few TV shows."  Where in the world is Andrew getting his information?
I have never been an assistant director on a TV show in my life?


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* 
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 01:05:30 -0700

Gary Rogers wrote:

> As I said, I had to laugh at most of the comments.

and

> Mr. Samuelsen has made false charges, misrepresentations, defamatory and
> slanderous statements that I do not take lightly.

and

> People are certainly welcome to their opinion, but to print false and
> slanderous comments is a disgrace.

I've stared at Mr. Rogers' post for over an hour now and I admit that I'm
stumped as to how to respond.

I guess all I can say is that I'm disappointed. This could have been a
fascinating discussion about how films are made and why certain kind of
decisions are made during casting, production, and post-production. It could
have been an opportunity for an education on LDS film in general and this film
in particular that clarified some (quite common) misconceptions for an audience
that's quite active in creating and popularizing LDS art.

But it won't be. Which I find sad, because we've chosen to limit our own
discourse in a particularly ugly way.

I had no opinions about Mr. Rogers or his film prior to reading his post. But I
have very distinct opinions now--opinions that I take no joy in. Opinions that
make me very, very tired and a little ashamed.

I hope Mr. Rogers makes an excellent film that shames his critics. Please let me
know, because I have lost all desire to find out for myself. Which is the
saddest thing of all because it was so unnecessary.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 12 Nov 2002 01:10:16 -0800

Linda,

I've read your comments on the "get out more" thread with great
interest. I'm wondering if there is an age thing connected with
the kind of unkind behavior you described (not allowing kids to
socialize with no-Mo's, etc.). I've been a native Utah Mormon for
44 years now. I was thinking the other day that my ward is more
diverse than the ward of my youth and that it's been 12 years or
so since I heard of a person in my immediate neighborhood feeling
ostracized in such ways. Maybe it's something to do with
money/class as well. I live in a 20 year old suburb area in the
"west" side of my town. People are comfortable here, but not
rolling in it. My experience has taught me that people in my
mother's age group (60's plus) tend to be more narrow minded
(i.e.: they don't get Robert Kirby's humor and consider it
sacrilegious much of the time, they still hold canning in high
regard not so much as a life-sustaining activity but as a
"correct" thing to do, etc., etc.)

Anyone want to do a study on age and attitudes in the church?
Having read Virginia Sorensen's and other's of the "lost
generation"'s work, I wonder if the further we move in time from
our pioneer roots, the less strident and divisive the majority of
(even Utah) Mormons are. Maybe it's the "time heals all wounds"
maxim coming true. Those who had close family connections and
recall about the bigotry, hatred and persecution early Mormons
endured had a greater desire to be isolationist. I'm five
generations out from my pioneer ancestors. I feel amazement and
gratitude when I learn of their lives and what they went through,
but it doesn't translate into a distrust of non-LDS people or
their motives in life.

Here's an interesting twist on it all--in my Utah neighborhood,
the people of other faiths or non-faiths became greatly offended
three years ago (is it necessary to say at the instigation of one
sour apple?) when the bishop thought it would be a good idea to
socialize more, and organized block parties. These were to be
held at various homes throughout the neighborhood with 10 to 15
families being invited to each party. It went through the NON
neighbors like wildfire that this innocuous activity was being
organized by the "Mormon's" which meant, of course, that it was a
thinly veiled attempt to trap them all and get 'em baptized (no
kidding, this one sour apple claimed he read in USA Today that
The Prophet proclaimed a church wide "Get to Know Your Neighbor
Day" or something...of course anything THE PROPHET says is
immediately suspect). Not one of the Non families attended any of
the parties. The whole thing was a dismal failure. The following
Sunday they had a hootin' and hollerin' loud kegger in the
backyard of my backdoor neighbor. I found it exceedingly funny
and spent the afternoon hanging out in my backyard reading, so I
could be on hand to throw their badminton birdies back over the
fence. The first one came my way as I walked in my garden. It
soon became obvious I was fulfilling a real need for them. The
drunker they got, the more often the birdies came flying my way.

They continue the tradition of loud parties on Sunday afternoons
every month throughout the summer. It's in the 3rd year now. The
Bishop tried the block party thing again this year, even saying
on the flyer "this has nothing to do with church. BYOB if you
want". We were asked to host, but we declined saying it was an
obvious sore sport with the neighbors, and we didn't want to
exacerbate the problem (that caused some raised eyebrows at Ward
Correlation). Even being "allowed" to bring booze, the No-Mo's
opted not to participate. They have never invited anyone they
remotely considered Mormon to their shin-dig, although a good 50%
of them are baptized members who choose not to participate in
church activity right now.

Here's the best part. One of my NON neighbors, who happens to be
our family hairdresser, mentioned how hard it was to gather up
enough tables and chairs for their party. I offered mine. I
bought a bunch from the ward when they remodeled several years
ago. Not many people have 40 folding chairs and 5 eight foot
banquet tables in their garage (Did I mention my husband comes
from a family of nine kids, so Thanksgiving is a BIG do?). So,
now The No-Mo Sunday Afternoon Kegger finds my neighbors enjoying
their brewskis with their butts in seats that say "property of
Deuel Creek Ward" on the bottom. And me throwing birdies over the
fence. How's that for delicious?

Kim Madsen


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 05:25:17 -0700

>From:  Gary Rogers

>On October 31st, Thom Duncan stated: "this project is horribly 
>underfunded and will probably stink to high heaven if it ever 
>gets done in the first place."  Where is Thom getting his 
>information?  No details of the budget have been released, 
>other than the movie will be a multi-million dollar production!

Unless you mean, by using the term "multi-million" a figure in the
neighborhood of fifty million and above, I stand by my original
assessment.  There is no way you or anyone can make a movie about any
story in the BofM in the way it should be made without a budget like the
one I'm proposing.  It's like trying to make Saving Private Ryan on a
home video system.  

>I know that 
>EVERYONE wants nothing more than to see a beautiful motion 
>picture on the Book of Mormon.  

I don't know about anybody but I want a good Book of Mormon movie done.
Now my definition of good may be different from someone else, but I
would not consider a film about the Book of Mormon using non-SAG actors
aimed at a limited LDS audience as a good film, no matter how
technically profiencient it may.  To me, the thing would require at the
very least, an A-list director and at least one A-list actor in a
prominent role.  But that's just me. I realize we have to start
somewhere in bringing the story of the BofM to film and that the first
one out of the chute may not be the film it needs to be.  I know it took
many versions of the life of Christ on film to finally get it right with
Zefferrelli's Jesus of Nazareth. 

Thom Duncan






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew W. Gallup" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Kofford Books (New Publisher)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 04:18:52 -0700

In response, I guess this is a fair complaint.  It has taken longer for us
to have this title ready to go than we expected.  The five-year estimate
might be a little long, but it has been a while.  The wait is almost over.
We have advance reading copies going out to reviewers this week and the book
goes to press this week as well.  We are expecting an early to mid-December
release date.  I apologize for the delay.  After having read almost half of
the book I am excited to complete it and I hope our readers enjoy it as
well.  I will post a firm release date and information about book signings
as soon as we have this information nailed down.

Thank you,

Andrew Gallup
Greg Kofford Books Inc.
(801) 523-6063 Office
(801) 671-7470 Cellular
(801) 576-0583 Fax
P.O. Box 1362
Draper, UT 84020
agallup@koffordbooks.com
www.koffordbooks.com




I am tremendously disappointed at how long it has taken Kofford Books to get
Boyd Peterson's excellent biography of Hugh Nibley out the door. What has it
been--five years now since I received your announcement that it would be out
soon? And I still can't get a straight answer from Boyd about when it will
be on
the shelves.

Fred Pinnegar





------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C28A02.9BC2D580
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



















In response, I guess this is a fair =
complaint.  It has taken longer for us to =
have this
title ready to go than we expected. 
The five-year estimate might be a little long, but it has been a
while.  The wait is almost =
over.  We have advance reading copies =
going
out to reviewers this week and the book goes to press this week as =
well.  We are expecting an early to =
mid-December
release date.  I apologize =
for the
delay.  After having read =
almost
half of the book I am excited to complete it and I hope our readers =
enjoy it as
well.  I will post a firm =
release
date and information about book signings as soon as we have this =
information
nailed down.



 



Thank you,



 



Andrew Gallup<=
/p>


Greg Kofford Books =
Inc.<=
/p>


(801) 523-6063 =
Office<=
/p>


(801) 671-7470 =
Cellular<=
/p>


(801) 576-0583 =
Fax<=
/p>


P.O. Box 1362 <=
/p>


Draper, UT =
84020<=
/p>


agallup@koffordbooks.com<=
/p>


www.koffordbooks.com=
<=
/p>


  =




 



 



Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 08:59:15 -0700 =
(MST)



From: Fred C Pinnegar =
<fcp@email.byu.edu>



Subject: Re: [AML] Kofford Books (New =
Publisher)



 



I am tremendously disappointed at how long it =
has
taken Kofford Books to get



Boyd Peterson's excellent biography of Hugh =
Nibley
out the door. What has it



been--five years now since I received your
announcement that it would be out



soon? And I still can't get a straight answer =
from
Boyd about when it will be on



the shelves.



 



Fred Pinnegar



 



 



 



<=
/p>


 <=
/p>








------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C28A02.9BC2D580--





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 12 Nov 2002 09:56:20 -0700

The thing I like best about D. Michael's novel is that it manages to get you
completely off the safe ground of most Mormon literature and put you in
unknown, dangerous territory. It is unpredictable, titillating, and
provocative. And yet it is compulsively easy to read at the stylistic if not
thematic level and ultimately does not have an apostate message or agenda.

This is the kind of thing we need more of. Why write unless you have
something fresh and new to say and do? I'm not saying D. Michael's novel has
the literary weight of _The Backslider_ or anything, but it's one of the
most interesting manuscripts I'm aware of floating around out there. I still
can't imagine who'd publish it, though.

You ought to send a sample chapter to Irreantum for possible publication, D.
Michael.

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Signature Book Covers
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:26:19 -0700

Richard Dutcher,
> you can use ME for your cover of _Brigham City: The Novel_.  I think I
> should get a little money for being good-looking, so I would want a
> small percentage of the sales, but we can negotiate that.

THAT's how we'll do it! This novel will definitely sell with Margaret's
picture on it! g:) Great idea, Margaret dear! And please don't forget the
dangly earrings!
Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:20:05 -0700

D. Michael missed the death wish sentence:

>But then he ruined it with the last paragraph (death wish paragraph,
Eric?):


>"My final point is one I've made before. If you fail to support the
>movies by LDS film makers who struggle to make a difference and who >want
>to create family friendly films that run counter to popular culture *
>however imperfect and flawed their early attempts * then you forever
>forfeit your right to complain about Hollywood and the steady decline of
>popular culture."

I quite agree with D. Michael about this sentence.  I'll see films I think =
are good, and I won't see films I don't think are any good, and I'll make =
that decision, thank you very much.  But that's not the death wish =
sentence.  The death wish sentence came in the paragraph about the =
producer who wanted to make a Joseph Smith film.  "The producer wrote the =
script . . . ."

No no no no no!  Producers don't write scripts!  They hire real writers to =
write them!  Argghhh!  In making a film, how many times, in how big a font =
do we have to say this:  WRITING THE SCRIPT IS NOT THE EASY PART!

Eric Samuelsen







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:49:12 -0700

.Andrea Lewis wrote:  But I do think that it requires greater honesty for
casual readers
> of LDS fiction to be able to graduate to more sophisticated literature.

Great to see Andrea admit the "graduation part." I am always amazed how m=
uch
more I love rereading Eudora Welty and Virginia Woolf as I grow older!
Thanks, Andrea, for adding to the discussion that it's a LEARNED PROCESS.
And though it may be held back by a plethora of "sentimental or
audience-oriented quick-fix satisfying works of art," it cannot be long
before the "taste" grows anxious for something more! (Hopefully) Kudos!
Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: [AML] re: Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 10:53:38 -0700

My apologies to Brother Rogers.  I made assumptions, based on the fact =
that many current LDS film producers are, in fact, crooks, and so I =
assumed that Brother Rogers was one too.  I shouldn't have, and I =
understand his umbrage. And I rescind my comments about his film, which I =
do, in fact, wish well.

Eric Samuelsen








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Exponent II
Date: 12 Nov 2002 16:14:52 -0800

Katie:

Check out their website at -- they can explain it better
than I can :)

In a nutshell:  it's an LDS woman's magazine.  There are essays, poetry,
fiction, columns, book reviews, news, interviews, etc. in each issue.  It's
focus is on "thinking" women (you won't find recipes, decorating ideas, or
ways to potty train a toddler).  Instead you might find an essay about
single women, an interview with Claudia Bushman, some poetry by Emma Lou
Thayne, etc.

Jana


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kelly Fredlund" 
Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] Recent Spoken Word
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:58:17 -0700

Howdy everyone, I would like to respond to Nan McCulloch Comment on the =
Recent Spoken Word...

Some of my fondest memories of going to church, were the sunday school =
opening exercises, (before the block meeting schedule)  We met in an old =
Knights of Columbus hall in San Clemente Calif,  as a kid I really liked =
to sing along especially in song practice. We had a very serious song =
leader who loved music, and would work tirelessly trying to make singing =
the hymns fun, she would stop us and correct us, and try it again a =
number of times until she felt we had made improvement, then, quickly =
move to another song, and if we did a few songs well then she would open =
it up to requests, and and would even call on the kids who were waving =
their hands, it was really fun! Now I know I am not an accomplished =
singer, and have no desire to be recognized as such, but I really love =
to sing the hymns, even if I goof with the words or the tone. But I =
beleiver you are right, that few of the congregation really understand : =
D&C 25: 12 For my soul delighteth in the song of the heart; yea, the =
song of the righteous is a prayer unto me, and it shall be answered with =
a blessing upon their heads.

The blessing I received for trying to sing in song practice, is that now =
at age 51 I still remember many of the songs we used to practice, and I =
really miss that time at church, and I beleive that was when I often =
felt the spirit and had the words of the songs emblazened upon my heart. =
Yet I do not participate in choir practice or the choir, because I feel =
too much pressure for my time at other things. My grandmother also loved =
to sing, and we sang together while doing house work, when I stayed with =
her one summmer when I was fifteen. I miss her, and I miss singing in =
song practice, and I miss the spiritual feelings I had then. ... No I =
don't think we need any new hymns, the ones we have are awesome enough, =
we just need to encourage each other to sing them more often, and quit =
singing the same ones every sunday, a continual change with opportunity =
to learn more of the hymns that are in the book would be welcomed, as =
long as we get to sing our favorites inbetween! I can't read a note, but =
I like to try.
Kelly
Fredlund


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 12 Nov 2002 11:12:04 -0700

I love teaching at BYU because, for one thing, I can be open about my
faith and beliefs.  However, I have at least one student this semester
who feels that I am a faith destroyer.  I believe the day I discussed
Gene England's contributions was the day she decided my class was not a
spiritual one, in fact an anti-spirit one.  I must've done very badly in
communicating what I know of Gene, or else she stopped listening when I
seemed to be supporting someone who had been openly critical of
something in the Church.  She also took offense at a story of mine I had
the class read.  (I have them read it so I can tell them exactly where
the various elements came from and inspire them with the possible places
they can find their characters and plots.)  The story, "Zoo Sounds" (you
can read it in _Love Chains_) does have swearing in it--and my syllabus
tells the students that if they have a personal policy of not reading
anything which contains swearing, they may substitute a Leslie Norris
story--but to me "Zoo Sounds" is absolutely faithful and the swearing
contextually appropriate.  Anyway, the student felt the story was in
violation of the Honor Code (and therefore I, the teacher, was in
violation.).  I got a call today from a colleague of mine--someone I
love and respect--telling me the student had complained about my class
to him.  He and I talked about how we could help this student out, and I
suggested--probably unwisely--that she come to me individually and we
arrange for her to no longer attend my class but to still fulfill the
assignments, since the semester is so near its finish.  I've wondered
what on earth I said recently which kept her offense alive, and decided
it was probably my comment in yesterday's class that as you change point
of view in a story, you realize that there really is no objective
truth.  Because those words could, I suppose, be construed to suggest
that the gospel is only subjectively true, she may have decided I was
once again undermining her faith.  (The context for the statement was an
exercise where the student writes about a significant experience they
shared with another person and then tells the same story from the other
person's point of view.)  I am extremely aware that we have lost
teachers at BYU because of complaints from students over just such
things--and that as a part time teacher, my position is pretty
precarious.  I believe it wouldn't take all that much for a student to
get me fired.  I hope I'm wrong.  But it is a very interesting
situation, isn't it.  I am so open about my faith in my classes, but my
faith is one that has survived challenges all down the spectrum, and I
freely address those challenges just as I freely address my faith.  Are
we raising a generation of students whose faith can't manage the
realities the best writing must confront?  Do you list members think
we're getting better at developing fiction/plays/films which reflect the
depth of faith Mormonism requires, or is the fact that we're producing
so many "easy" movies (etc.) where sentimentality is substituted for
earned emotion an indication that we're somehow failing to TRULY prepare
our people for the requirements of this time?

[Margaret Young]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Film And Its Critics Article
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:00:27 -0700

At 02:33 PM 11/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Sentimentality, to me, is an attempt to appeal to reflexive emotion--the
>same way a shock comedian knows they can get a laugh by dropping the f-bomb.
>Deep emotion, on the other hand, it thoughtful and reflective. Like true
>humor, it's a lot harder to evoke than the reflexive kind, but it seems to
>me that deep, true emotion is the goal of all great art. Sentimentality is a
>mere cheap imitation of  that--and someone needs to be able to sort the true
>gold from fools gold.

I'm having trouble understanding the connotations of the word "sentimental" 
and its difference from "true emotion" -- not just in this post, but in the 
ongoing discussion. I've always thought of myself as a rather sentimental 
sort, because I cry pretty easily. But, for example, when Thom Duncan told 
me that his wife had left him and I burst into tears right there in the 
mall, astonishing both of us, I think that was true emotion. I care about 
him, and it hurt me for him to be unhappy. I don't like to have other 
people categorize my feelings and tell me whether they are valid or not. If 
you tell me that my taste in art or literature is bad, that won't bother me 
too much because I will simply assume that you are an elitist snob. But how 
can you tell whether my feelings are true and deep? How can a person judge 
that for someone else? If we label a work of art as "sentimental," do we 
not mean that it fails to move us? Do we have the right to assume, then, 
that anyone who is moved by it is a schmuck? I'm not attempting to assail 
anyone's viewpoint here; I'm looking for clarification.

barbara hume








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Jana Riess
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:11:09 -0700

At 06:54 AM 11/9/02 -0700, you wrote:
>There are few books currently available written by women scholars who
>understand the mindset of our 19th century sisters.

It's difficult. I've written some fiction set in the early 19th century in 
England, and my research has been fascinating. What seems to us a normal 
and natural reaction to events was not so to them.

BTW, I recently read Eugene England's essay "On Fidelity, Polygamy, and 
Celestial Marriage" (thank you for sending that to me, Nan!), and one 
aspect that struck me was his statement that "diaries, letters, and 
reminiscences of polygynous wives and children reveal that regular 
down-playing of the romantic dimension of married love was indeed one of 
the costs of polygyny."  I can well believe that. A woman would have to 
distance herself emotionally from a man who is not there for here all the 
time, who is indeed with another woman. much of the time rather than 
building a solid and trusting relationship with her. She cannot risk her 
heart by giving it fully. I think that's so sad. (Semtimental me again.)

barbara hume







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: daryoung@juno.com
Subject: [AML] Horizon and Cornerstone
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:29:18 GMT

Obviously there are two sides to the story of what happened to Cornerstone.  Since the publishing business can be so greatly influenced by reputation, would it be of interest to ask the two main players in that drama to write up their own stories and rebut each other's stories in the forum of Irreantum?  I can't think of a better or more appropriate forum.  I know that some disagreements are better left quiet, but it's obvious that there are rumors and nastinesses already abounding.  Let's let them tell their stories in a place that will give their future business partners and clients a chance to hear the truth.

-Darlene Young




________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Annette Lyon" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:52:48 -0700

"They do all sorts of things like this.  Ever notice the standard policy
of making "foreign languages" be all spoken with a British accent?  They
almost never make the accent sound like the real accent unless it is an
accent spoken in English."

One reason I was impressed with Kenneth Branaugh's film version of "Much Ado
Amount Nothing" is that all of the actors speak with their own accents--Emma
Thompson and Branaugh with their British accents, Robert Sean Leonard and
Denzel Washington in their American accents. The one big exception is
Michael Keaton, but his character is so bizarre and goofy that it needed its
own accent anyway. Of course, there's also Keanu Reaves, who seems to have
tried a bit too hard to be Shakespearean, so his accent is something of a
cross between American and British, but considering that this film was after
_Bill and Ted's_ but before _The Matrix_, I guess we can forgive him.

Annette Lyon





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Slaven 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 12 Nov 2002 12:14:17 -0800

> From: Cathy Wilson 
>
> I've been teaching about the brain and its chemistry at school and it
> made me curious about the whole process of epiphany and bliss and so on.
> We heard on the news that scientists think there is a "God spot" in the
> limbic system in the right temporal lobe that activates when we are
> praying or connecting with God. That's interesting, to pinpoint the
> actual place that gets active when we are alive spiritually. Over time I
> have trained myself to "go into" that state of delight and bliss and
> connectedness. My kids at school sometimes ask if I'm "on something" and
> I just tell them that they can take themselves there without any drugs.
> I find that prayers of gratitude and acts of kindness are very sure
> paths to that blessed state of bliss.

I don't remember where I first read about this -- it was a Canadian magazine
of some sort, but dinged if I can remember which one (doctor's office,
IIRC) -- but here's an article in Wired from Nov. 99 that talks about
something interesting.  Here's the link and an excerpt:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger_pr.html

Over a scratchy speaker, a researcher announces, "Jack, one of your electrodes
is loose, we're coming in." The 500-pound steel door of the experimental
chamber opens with a heavy whoosh; two technicians wearing white lab coats
march in. They remove the Ping-Pong-ball halves taped over my eyes and
carefully lift a yellow motorcycle helmet that's been retrofitted with
electromagnetic field-emitting solenoids on the sides, aimed directly at my
temples. Above the left hemisphere of my 42-year-old male brain, they locate
the dangling electrode, needed to measure and track my brain waves. The
researchers slather more conducting cream into the graying wisps of my red
hair and press the securing tape hard into my scalp.

After restoring everything to its proper working position, the techies exit,
and I'm left sitting inside the utterly silent, utterly black vault. A few
commands are typed into a computer outside the chamber, and selected
electromagnetic fields begin gently thrumming my brain's temporal lobes. The
fields are no more intense than what you'd get as by-product from an ordinary
blow-dryer, but what's coming is anything but ordinary. My lobes are about to
be bathed with precise wavelength patterns that are supposed to affect my mind
in a stunning way, artificially inducing the sensation that I am seeing God.

I'm taking part in a vanguard experiment on the physical sources of spiritual
consciousness, the current work-in-progress of Michael Persinger, a
neuropsychologist at Canada's Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario. His
theory is that the sensation described as "having a religious experience" is
merely a side effect of our bicameral brain's feverish activities. Simplified
considerably, the idea goes like so: When the right hemisphere of the brain,
the seat of emotion, is stimulated in the cerebral region presumed to control
notions of self, and then the left hemisphere, the seat of language, is called
upon to make sense of this nonexistent entity, the mind generates a "sensed
presence."

Persinger has tickled the temporal lobes of more than 900 people before me and
has concluded, among other things, that different subjects label this ghostly
perception with the names that their cultures have trained them to use -
Elijah, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Mohammed, the Sky Spirit. Some subjects have
emerged with Freudian interpretations - describing the presence as one's
grandfather, for instance - while others, agnostics with more than a passing
faith in UFOs, tell something that sounds more like a standard alien-abduction
story.

It may seem sacrilegious and presumptuous to reduce God to a few ornery
synapses, but modern neuroscience isn't shy about defining our most sacred
notions - love, joy, altruism, pity - as nothing more than static from our
impressively large cerebrums. Persinger goes one step further. His work
practically constitutes a Grand Unified Theory of the Otherworldly: He
believes cerebral fritzing is responsible for almost anything one might
describe as paranormal - aliens, heavenly apparitions, past-life sensations,
near-death experiences, awareness of the soul, you name it.
==========
Of course, the above doesn't prevent my favourite hypothesis:  God designed
our brains with the above response intentionally, and then stimulates it when
he wants to talk to us (or the Holy Spirit does that, whatever, it's a
detail).  When someone claims to have seen something that doesn't fit with our
gospel (Mohammed's receiving the Qu'ran, people seeing the Virgin Mary, people
thinking they were abducted by aliens), it represents one of three things:

1) God/the Holy Spirit stimulated that area in hopes of giving some revelation
to the person, but they didn't "get it";
2) Some natural process stimulated that area -- a biochemical glitch in the
person's brain, a quirk of some existing electromagnetic field in that
location -- and the person made whatever sense of it they could*;
3) Maybe Satan knows how to stimulate that area, too.

And, of course, in accordance with what Cathy said, perhaps "prayers of
gratitude and acts of kindness are very sure
paths to that blessed state of bliss," or in other words, to triggering that
zone of the brain.

I'm a firm believer in the principle that "Any sufficiently advanced
technology is indistinguishable from magic" [Arthur C. Clarke], or, to put it
differently, "indistinguishable from a miracle."  I believe there are sound
physical explanations for everything God does; we just don't know enough of
the science to have a clue about most of it.  Sometimes we stumble upon stuff,
like perhaps Professor Persinger has here.  Sometimes we guess, such as with
speculation that God knows how to work in more than our four dimensions, which
quite easily allows things like showing up in the middle of a locked room.  I
believe the Celestial Kingdom will be a very long period of heavy education in
all this stuff.

ObLDSLiteraryTie-In: Twenty years down the road, a bored LDS psych grad
student replicates Persinger's work with better equipment [the article I saw
referred to Persinger's lack of success with grant applications, and how much
of his equipment comes from Canadian Tire and Radio Shack], and generates his
own First Vision.  Was it real?  Was it just an artifact of his experiment?
In that case, was Joseph Smith's First Vision real?  What does that do to the
student's faith?  To the faith of everyone he tells his story to?  Man, I
gotta start writing more.  (I'm in the middle of an election campaign --
school board, vote's on Saturday -- and on top of that, our van's in the shop
getting a new head gasket and yesterday someone broke into our house and
swiped all my wife's jewellery.  Stress?!  What stress?!?!)

ObFootnote: * There are hypotheses that some 'UFO sightings' are flashes of
light caused by electromagnetic fields generated by creaks in the earth (e.g.
around faults in earthquake zones).  So, like, what if you're outside at
night, some creaking in the earth generates some of this stuff, you see weird
lights in the sky, you wonder if they're alien spaceships, and then your 'God
zone' in your brain gets triggered.  Just imagine the kind of stuff your brain
might make up in that kind of setting....

Robert
**********************************************************************
Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven                         www.robertslaven.ca
...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too
'Man is that he might have joy--not guilt trips.'  (Russell M. Nelson)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana"  (by way of Jonathan Langford )
Subject: [AML] Books Up for Review
Date: 14 Nov 2002 21:32:07 -0600

Arial

Hi folks!


Here's a new list of books up for review.  If you'd like to review one of
the following titles please email me < with your choices
and qualifications. =20


A few reminders:

--reviews are due one month from receipt of the book

--if you haven't posted your last review, please don't request a new=20
one

--your 'payment' for these books is your completed review

--AML-List reviews may be considered for publication in Irreantum
magazine

--book summaries are at the publisher's website (please read the summary
_before_ you request so you know what you're asking for)


New to the review program??  Find out more about it at
<.


Best wishes,=20

Jana Remy

AML-List Review Editor



Covenant: (www.covenant-lds.com)


A Guiding Star by Anita Stansfield


Power of Deliverance by David G. Woolley


Faith of our Fathers by N.C. Allen


Abandoned by Jennie Hansen


Lost and Found by Clair Poulsen


Beyond Summer Dreams by Jennie Hansen


Lost Without You by Annette Lyon


The Return by Robert Marcum


Jesus Said=85. by Debbie G. Harman


Heroes of the Bible by Toni Sorenson Brown


Christmas Oranges, re-told by Linda Bethers


The Prayer Tree by Rainbow Abegg


Into the Fire by Jeffrey Savage


Until Proven Guilty by Betsy Brannon Green


Deep Waters by Thomas Eno


The Plan of Salvation by Matthew B. Brown



Deseret Book: (www.deseretbook.com)


Troubled Waters by Dean Hughes


The World Turned Upside Down by Ron Carter



Cedar Fort: (www.cedarfort.com)


500 Little Known Facts in Mormon History by George W. Givens


Principles of Progression by Kevin Stott


A Trusting Heart by Shannon Guymon




Sunrise Books: (www.sunrisebooks.com)


The Path to Mountain Meadows by Beth Shumway Moore







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Clark Goble" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:14:50 -0700

 ___ Clark ___
| Ever notice the standard policy of making "foreign 
| languages" be all spoken with a British accent?  
| They almost never make the accent sound like the 
| real accent unless it is an accent spoken in English.
|
 ___ Michael ___
| You mean foreign people when supposedly speaking in 
| their own tongue, but really speaking English on screen 
| for the sake of the audience, use a British accent to 
| indicate foreignness? Then I have to disagree. Every 
| WW2 film on Earth has Germans speaking with German 
| accents. It's obligatory.
 ___

Yeah - German Nazis are a special case.  I'll give you that one.
However typically (although not always) Hollywood just uses a British
accent to signify "foreign."  I always get a kick out of the English
accents among French characters.  Occasionally they'll throw in a slight
French accent - but it is rare.  It has always cracked me up.

On the other hand I remember the criticisms of _Braveheart_ because
people thought they all ought to have thick Scottish accents, even
though at that date English as we know it didn't even exist yet.

 ___ Clark ___
| Phone calls, for instance, are highly stylized and 
| many aspects of film seem to borrow from  phenomena 
| in dreams.
|
 ___ Michael ___
| I have no idea what this means.
 ___

In dreams you usually jump from "scene" to "scene" without caring about
the intervening events.  This feels natural.  So you may pick up a phone
and have the whole conversation but have it "appear" as only a moment.
Similar things are done in movies.  A lot of the structure of a movie
follows the natural rhythms of a dream.  Of course it is *too* dreamy
then the audience does get upset.  (Look at David Lynch films)  So there
is this balance between realism and the dream world.  Hollywood (and
film makers in general) will often use shortcuts.  That's why when a
character picks up a phone and has a conversation it is typically a few
words representing a conversation that in "real life" would have taken
several minutes.

[Clark Goble]





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Russ Asplund 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:18:17 -0700

You know, I may be the only one--but I have absolutly no desire for a movie
version of the BOM. In fact, in many ways I consider it destructive. As to
why, you can look at this article:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/833665.asp

Which deals with children's reactions to the movie versions of Harry Potter.
In short, the movie version become to most people the dominant, and often
only, vision of the work. I already see Mormon's who believe The Ten
Commandments represents a more real represetation of Moses and the Children
of Israel than the Old Testament. I hate to see that happen to the Book of
Mormon, because to dramatize it you will have to guess at characters and
motivations, you will have to add and delete--and most of all the action
will be primary and the message and sermons secondary, if not cut
altogether. This seems to me a tragic distortion of the Book of Mormon.


> candesa
> Russell Asplund
> director of research and development
> 801.426.5450 
> russa@candesa.com
> 


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] _Brigham City_ (Movie)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:19:39 -0700

>I watch a lot of crime drama on tv, like the Law and Order 
>shows, CSI. Whenever there's a scene where parents are being 
>told their child has died, I always think to myself, "Nope. 
>That's not what it's like, at all. They're getting it totally wrong."

My ex used to complain about scenes like this, too.  I would counter (as
I do with you): "Are you really suggesting that every mother would react
to the death of a child in the way that you would do?"  Some women cry
at such news, others go into shock, others stare blankly at the wall,
some even laugh, some faint, and some go out and get drunk.  In other
words, anything you can conceive a person doing when hearing of the
death of a loved one, believe me, someone out there has reacted that
way.

>But Brigham City got it right. The scene where the parents are 
>told their daughter has been found dead--the father's 
>immediate sob, the mother knowing before she's even told--just 
>rang totally true for me.

FWIW, I watch a lot of crime shows and have the above described action
many times.  I have also seen other reactions.  To me, they all ring
true, if the actor and the director have worked to make it so.

Thom Duncan







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:26:16 -0700

>I see this happening with varying amounts of success 
>right now.  I 
>am wondering if we could just stop dissing authors and readers 
>and really 
>develop a working model which will to some degree helpful for 
>authors to 
>gage their readers as they write. 

What would be a working model of LDS readers?  Recent converts?
Long-time converts?  Men?  Women?  Boys?  Girls?  LDS converts and
life-time members from other countries?  From the Wasatch Front?  LDS
Democrats, or Republicans?  Married, divorced, etc.

Everyone of those type of LDS would have something different they would
be interested in.  I think you already defined the working model in the
snipped part of your response: Honesty.  Pure and simple.  If you tell
the story of a recent convert, tell it honestly.  If you tell the story
of a divorced LDS woman, tell it honestly.  That ought to be the
unifying principal in the art we produce.

Thom Duncan






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Artists Group (SLDSA)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 18:50:52 -0600

Thayne Wheeler has requested that we pass along along the following message:

The Society of Latter-Day Saint Artists (SLDSA) is an
organization [under development] that strives to unite
LDS artists of all fields of art into one body. Our
main purpose is to encourage artistic creations that
live up to our theology. The SLDSA has many goals,
desires and services that are being constructed for
its future members.
The SLDSA's presence on the web is located at
www.sldsa.org, but currently resides in a pre-sldsa
form called LDS Artists' Network at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ldsartists. Please take
a moment and join our growing group and invite your
LDS artist friends and associtates of any artistic
field (visual, musical, performance, literary etc.) to
the group. If you have any questions, comments or
would like to assist in the SLDSA's development,
please contact: Thayne Wheeler at thayne@wheelerstudios.com.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Annual Utah Film Commission Luncheon
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:11:22 -0600

Thomas C. Baggaley reports on the Utah Film Commission Luncheon which he
attended today:

UTAH FILMMAKERS MEET, EAT, TALK ABOUT INTERESTING ISSUES - The 2nd Utah
Film Industry Luncheon, sponsored by the Utah Film Commission, took
place today (November 13th) at the Hilton Salt Lake City Center.  The
theme for the luncheon was "Commercial Production".  Guest speaker Matt
Miller, President and CEO of the Association of Independent Commercial
Producers, spoke on a variety of issues, from runaway production and
competing in a global economy to the new "BMW films" and the career
opportunities that are becoming available as the once immutable lines
between different kinds of production (from commercials to feature
films) begin to blur. One of the more interesting and important points
that Miller made is that it is important for filmmakers and production
companies in the United States to develop a stronger sense of community
and to work together to find creative ways to compete in the worldwide
entertainment economy.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Eclipse Film Festival Addendum
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:20:34 -0600

We previously reported that at this year's Eclipse Film Festival Latter-day
Saint film director Christian Vuissa won the Best Director award and Maria
Perez, also a convert to the Church, won for Best Screenplay, both for their
work on "Roots & Wings."

The Best Editor award was inadvertently left out of the initial list of
winners. It, too, went to some Latter-day Saint filmmakers.

The Best Editing award went to "Simplicity", a short film directed by Chet
Thomas and produced by Thomas' filmmaking partner Darren Fletcher (who also
wrote the script). These Latter-day
Saint filmmakers, residents of Utah, have created a number of other short
films, including "A Kiss Remembered" and "Shear." Fletcher is best known as
a storyboarder who has worked on over 40 films, everything from Church films
such as "Legacy" to IMAX documentaries to feature films. Chet Thomas, Brain
Hennessy and Rob Verdery.were also producers on "Simplicity."

Last year the Best Editing Award went to BYU student Krisi Church, for
"Shattered." This film, as well
as another short film by Church, will be shown in this year's LDS Film
Festival, coming up beginning tomorrow (November 13) in Provo, Utah. Church
is one of the most exciting, original young filmmakers in Utah, and is much
sought after as a film editor. Next year's festival is scheduled for
November 14th and 15th (2003).

- Preston Hunter, www.ldsfilm.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Justin Halverson 
Subject: RE: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:15:57 -0500

Gary Rogers wrote:
 >I know that
 >EVERYONE wants nothing more than to see a beautiful motion
 >picture on the Book of Mormon.

In the most respectful way possible, I really want a lot of things more 
than to see any motion picture on the Book of Mormon, beautiful or not.

I really feel strongly, and I'm not entirely sure why, that there are 
certain texts that should not be translated to film, even by the most 
talented filmmakers in the world (or the church). This category includes 
many texts that are not sacred in nature, but simply unrepresentable 
visually. I guess I feel this way about most of the works I consider great 
literature.

I would like to see some of the stories of the Book of Mormon explored 
visually, but not AS stories of the Book of Mormon. Does that make any 
sense? For example, a movie about a murder/killing where the character's 
motivations require a suspension of the ethical (like Nephi and Laban, or 
Abraham and Isaac) authorized by someone (ie God) outside the ethical. But 
to identify it by the same name we use to represent the verbal text of the 
Book of Mormon is to present something that's not what we're saying it is. 
(I know this is vague; I'm trying to pin it down.) Maybe a good example 
would be Don Quijote vs. Man of La Mancha. I learned the lesson as a 
freshman that they are not the same text (ie, don't watch the movie if 
you've got a test on the book). I, like many others, lost out on the 
amazing--and visually unrepresentable--intricacy of the novel when I 
watched the film adaptation.

Not to say I didn't gain other things from watching the musical that aren't 
in the book--I did. And I'm not saying either that people MIGHT get a wrong 
idea of the Book of Mormon by seeing a "Book of Mormon" movie--I KNOWthey 
will. They have to, because any adaptation is just that. Neither am I 
arguing that books are superior to films or other more visual forms of 
art--its not. Its just different. You can do different things with 
different mediums, and some mediums can't do what others can, regardless of 
the skill of the artist. I just saw a film called "Punch-Drunk Love" that 
could never work as a book, even if Shakespeare (or Joyce) were writing it.

I don't think I'm coming at this from any sort of missionary anxiety, 
either, that I'm afraid that people will either hate or love the LDS church 
or the Book of Mormon because of the movie. As with God's Army, I really 
could care less. The church and its book must be taken on their own terms.

I think ultimately it's a question of translation and of responsibility: 
are we ready to translate this book? Even if we are ready, should we? Our 
readings of the Book of Mormon will be unavoidably altered (not necessarily 
in a bad way, but certainly in a limiting one) by what ends up appearing on 
the screen. To wit, consider this: what color were King Noah's clothes? 
What does Zeezrom's hairdo look like? How about facial hair? People of my 
generation often concur with me that Noah had purple robes, and that 
Zeezrom was mostly bald, that Abinadi and Noah had beards (though Abinadi's 
was white while Noah's was black) due to the images in the picture books of 
the Book of Mormon stories we read as children.

Then there's the whole debate about what it takes to get a film sold and 
viewed. Are we willing to submit this text to the market of cinema?

Doubtless I will be accused of censorship, of trying to impose my judgment 
of what should and shouldn't be said or seen. I'm not trying to tell anyone 
else what to think, but rather to share my opinion of the project. I think 
these are questions that should be asked, though, regardless of whether 
someone goes ahead and makes the film.

Justin Halverson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Morris 
Subject: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 17:49:49 -0800 (PST)


> 
> Date:  Sun. 10 Nov. 2002
> From:  Gary Rogers
> Subject:  re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
> 
> 
> People are certainly welcome to their opinion, but to print false and
> slanderous comments is a disgrace.  I know that EVERYONE wants nothing
> more than to see a beautiful motion picture on the Book of Mormon.  I
> can certainly  understand people's concerns and anxieties..........but
> please get the facts straight.
>

I'm pleased that Gary Rogers has taken the time to set the record
straight. I can't speak to the rightness of his comments because I don't
know enough about SAG issues, etc.  What I can speak to, though, is the
perception created by the press release and the news coverage of his
announcement. This is coming from a pr flack and not from a liberal,
outspoken drama professor [my apologies to Eric Samuelsen but I don't
think he'd quibble with any of those adjectives].

I think Rogers and his team could have handled the announcement much more
professionally. The press release was littered with exclamation points,
pointless quotes and over-hyped promises. I realize that all those are
hallmarks of pr-speak---but they don't have to be.  To me the release
typified a new word I've coined:  blandiose.

That may have not been the production team's intentions. But that's my
perception of them and the whole grand announcement. This clarification by
Rogers changes that perception somewhat, but not entirely. To me, this is
a unique opportunity to involve the Mormon community in an amazing
project. I hope that the team continues to work with the media to provide
updates and details, plot spoilers, casting decisions, etc. 

Also:  I don't know that "everyone" wants "nothing more" than to see a
"beautiful" Book of Mormon film. That type of pseudo-inclusive speech
smacks as rather patronizing. I'd drop it. I wouldn't play the "laud us
because we're bringing the Book of Mormon to the silver screen" card; I'd
focus on "this project is our vision of an amazing story and we hope to do
justice to the dramatic and compelling narrative that's found in the first
two books of Nephi. We're going to do so by [insert facts about fabulous
cast, producers, location, budget, script writers, etc.]"

I think more than anything, some list members feel that many of these film
announcements (and sometimes the final products themselves) take the
Mormon arts community and the Mormon audience as a whole for granted, that
the filmmakers have the perception that they should be lauded just because
they are making a film for Mormons. Rogers has a right to complain about
speculation on list members parts because he has clarified things. What he
(and no other artist) does not have the right to is to complain when a
film (or other cultural product) is panned that the critics "just don't
get it" or that people who attend "with the proper spirit" do get it or
that he's speaking to the "real" Mormon audience and not just the
"artistic elite." In my experience with the AML-list, most members have
very broad even forgiving tastes and when something is universally
criticized, it's often simply because it's a piece of un-crafted, sloppy
art.

I encourage Rogers to, at the very least, seek out the formal reviews from
AML participants to his upcoming work and read them with the same
open-minded atittude that I assume (and hope) that members of the Mormon
artistic community approach his film. My concern is that if Mormon artists
continue to see critics as simply playa-hatas that the quality of work
will not improve and the audience will either develop deeeply-ingrained
low expectations or backlash against Mormon film, literature and drama.

~~William Morris     

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] Yesterday's Hiatus
Date: 14 Nov 2002 21:45:03 -0600

Folks,

Apologies to all for yesterday's hiatus, particularly since it came at a 
high-volume time for AML-List. Personal circumstances... 

(This post won't count against today's total.)

Jonathan Langford



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:34:41 -0700



> Cathy Wilson wrote:
>
> > I've been teaching about the brain and its chemistry at school and it
> > made me curious about the whole process of epiphany and bliss and so on.
> > We heard on the news that scientists think there is a "God spot" in the
> > limbic system in the right temporal lobe that activates when we are
> > praying or connecting with God

Scott Parkin wrote:

On a completely tangential note, there was an interesting science fiction
novel
> published late last year (or early this year) called _Distance Haze_ by
Jamil
> Nassir that deals with this idea of the "God spot" in such a way as to
allow for
> belief in God as something more than just a biochemical response.
>
It's perplexing this idea of a "God Spot."  The right temporal lobe was the
point of greatest impact in my accident.  I broke both parietal bones, the
right temporal bone and the right side of the manndible.  We're all familiar
with my dark mood swing (at least, Our Blessed Moderator is).  I  wonder how
that injury affects spirituality?  It's a hard one.

Paris Anderson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Recent Spoken Word
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:42:58 -0700

At 07:08 AM 11/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>How can =
>we sing with the spirit and feel joy doing it and still meet the church =
>guidelines for acceptable sacrament meeting music?  Dare I suggest that =
>some of us write some new hymns, or is this not the answer.

We recently had a sacrament meeting that consisted of several people 
discussing their favorite hymns, then the congregation singing them. I was 
asked to participate. The first counselor called me and said, "I want you 
to talk about your favorite hymn for sacrament meeting, but knowing you, 
you'll say something radical."

"My favorite hymn isn't in the LDS hymnbook," I answered.

"Not that radical!" he said.

I did mention some of the gospel hymnns I was sorry to leave behind when I 
joined the LDS Church: Bringing in the Sheaves, Every Day with Jesus, When 
the Roll Is Called Up Yonder, I Was Sinking Deep in Sin . . . . . some of 
the converts in the ward knew just what I was talking about. But then I 
said how much I loved the hymns of the Restoration and talked about The 
Spirit of God Like a Fire Is Burning. I was the last speaker, and we wound 
up with that hymn, and it was great because it's a hymn of triumph and 
people stood up and belted it out.

Like Nan said.  Why don't we just drop some of those dour old Methodist 
hymns and write some hymns of joy and triumph? And how about standing up 
while we sing them? And how about not being so dad-blasted conservative and 
dreary about what we are allowed to sing in church?

barbara hume







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Kofford Books (New Publisher)
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:48:21 -0700

At 11:46 PM 11/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>As there is an advance reading copy for sale on the Deseret Book auction 
>site even as we type, I'd guess that the wait will not be long.

People are not supposed to sell their advanced reading copies! That's why 
it says "Not for resale" right on the cover. Someone is breaking faith with 
the publisher and with the writer. Don't buy it.

barbara hume






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] First U.S. Feature Film
Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:27:44 -0600

Thom Duncan wrote;
>>I realize we have to start
>>somewhere in bringing the story of the BofM to film and that the first
>>one out of the chute may not be the film it needs to be.  I know it took
>>many versions of the life of Christ on film to finally get it right with
>>Zefferrelli's Jesus of Nazareth. 


Speaking of movies about scriptures... 

Here's some fun facts to contemplate. The very first feature-length film
EVER filmed in the United States was... Well, it wasn't from the Bible. It
was Dickens' _Oliver Twist_. 

But the SECOND feature film ever made in the U.S. was indeed an ambitious
attempt to bring the life of Jesus to the big screen.

Third American feature film... Shakespeare (no surprise there). Then we've
got the first-ever of many versions of "Cleopatra." Number 5 was "Lieutenant
Petrosino" (?). Wasn't until the sixth-ever American feature-film that the
industry made an LDS-themed movie: "One Hundred Years of Mormonism",
featuring Brigham Young's grandson playing the part of Brigham Young. Of
course, this wasn't about the Book of Mormon, it was about the pioneers and
Utah and Joseph Smith and, well, the title is pretty self-explanatory.

You have to fast-forward 28 years to get to the first recorded independent
feature film based on the Book of Mormon (Lester Park's 1931 "Corianton").
After the financial and popular failure of "Corianton" not much happened for
decades, until the Church itself made institutional, instructional short
films, sometimes depicting scenes from the Book of Mormon. The biggest
independent Book of Mormon filmmaking venture to date has been headed by
director Richard Rich, with the approximately one dozen half-hour animated
films featuring stories from the Book of Mormon. The screenwriter for these
was Orson Scott Card, who is, coincidentally, the grandson of Lester Park.

But an independent, live-action feature film based on the Book of Mormon
remains largely unmade. A major attempt was mounted by producer Cary
Derbidge and writer/director J. Daniel Nell, when they filmed "The Stripling
Warriors" in Kaysville, Utah in June of 1999. When the partially-filmed
project wasn't completed, the property reverted to Nell, who still has plans
to re-tool and finish a version of the project trimmed in length to just two
hours. But this project is essentially on hold.

If Gary Rogers succeeds in completing a feature film about the Book of
Mormon by his planned target date it will be about the twelfth Latter-day
Saint-themed feature film since the advent of "God's Army."

Or will it? Interestingly enough, the subject matter of any film about the
Book of Mormon presents a slight semantic problem to anybody who uses the
term "LDS-themed feature film." The Book of Mormon actually has no
Latter-day Saints in it. It has no Mormons, either. And there are no known
characters named "Mormon" until the very end... certainly none in 1st and
2nd Nephi, which would be the source of the first such films in a projected
series. So, technically, such a project might have to categorized as a
"Jewish-themed feature film," in which case we would have to classify it
with "Fiddler on the Roof", "The Ten Commandments" and "Blazing Saddles",
rather than with "God's Army" and "The Singles Ward."


First Feature Films Made in the United States:

May 1912
Oliver Twist
(5 reels)
H. A. Spanuth

Oct 1912
>From the Manger to the Cross
(6 reels)
Karem Co.

Oct 1912
Richard III
(4 reels)
Sterling Camera & Film Co.

Nov 1912
Cleopatra
(6 reels)
Helen Gardner Picture Plays

Nov 1912
The Adventures of Lieutenant Petrosino
Feature Photoplay Co.

Feb 1913
One Hundred Years of Mormonism
(6 reels)
Utah Moving Picture Co.; Ellay Co.


- Preston Hunter, ldsfilm.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Exponent II
Date: 12 Nov 2002 19:54:25 -0700

Jana wrote about Exponent II:

Instead you might find an essay about
> single women, an interview with Claudia Bushman, some poetry by Emma Lou
> Thayne, etc.

Or you might find poetry by swarthy gentlemen who wear eye-patches and don't
like to shave.

Paris Anderson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: [AML] Environmental Literature
Date: 13 Nov 2002 00:06:07 -0700

I enjoyed reading the last issue of Irreantum.  In an interview the =
question was posed to Terry Tempest Williams, "Do you think that Mormons =
are anti-environment?"  She answered that she didn't think so.  I agree. =
 We just don't hear too much about the positive things Mormons are doing =
in this area.  My niece Polly Parkinson-Taylor just finished getting her =
masters on this subject.  She gave a paper in London at the Association =
for Study of Literature and the Environment.  It was titled _Norris and =
Williams:  Changed by Their Native Lands_ and discussed how for some =
writers, place is more than setting and instead a primary force acting =
on character and leading to change.  They were changed by the land.  =
Each identity as a person is drawn from the place that she lives.  Her =
thesis study was on Williams's book _Refuge_ where she analyzed the =
author-land relationship in terms of human attachment and loss theory.  =
After hearing Neila C. Seshachari read her essay on _Leap_  (another =
book by Williams) just a week before she died, I was very happy to get =
to reread the essay in Irreantum.  The entire issue was well put =
together and the theme nicely developed.  Good job. =20

Nan McCulloch


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:02:32 -0700

Thom Duncan wrote:

> I know it took
> many versions of the life of Christ on film to finally get it right with
> Zefferrelli's Jesus of Nazareth.

True, Zeferelli's film is the best one on the life of Christ to date,
but I still don't think it got it right.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:06:57 -0700

Christopher Bigelow wrote:
> 
> I'm not saying D. Michael's novel has
> the literary weight of _The Backslider_ or anything

My book isn't literary? I consider that a compliment.


> but it's one of the
> most interesting manuscripts I'm aware of floating around out there.

I can't tell you how much fun it is to have AML-List discussing
something I've produced. If that hasn't happened to you, you ought to
try it sometime.


> I still
> can't imagine who'd publish it, though.

I've received one offer to consider it.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marie Knowlton 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 13 Nov 2002 06:04:19 -0800 (PST)


Gotta love Kim's story! 

As a convert from California who has lived all over the country at various times, I have witnessed the narrow-minded ostracizement of which we speak. It began in college when good LDS guys refused to date me because I was not raised in the Church and didn't have the "proper upbringing" nor the requisite LDS grandparents for their future grandchildren. To them, it was almost as bad as associating with a non-member. 

I've also noticed that there are members who turn the same disapproval on other members if they do something that puts them outside the mainstream (like get divorced, for example). The general problem is that we teach tolerance, acceptance, and brotherly love, then ignore, criticize, or vigorously try to change anyone who doesn't fit "the mold." 

Eric Samuelsen's one-act play, "Bar and Kel" does a wonderful job of exploring this dichotomy without necessarily condemning the people who engage in it. Jack Weyland's novel "Nicole" touches on the subject and portrays a family who have become inactive because their developmentally disabled son has been treated badly at church. Weyland only skims the surface and retreats into a warm fuzzy conflict resolution that leaves unanswered the question posed by one of his characters (and many of us): How can people profess to be LDS and act like this? 

Non-members know all about this and can smell us coming a mile away. I can't say I blame them. 
 
[Marie Knowlton]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: Re: [AML] _Brigham City_ (Movie)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:06:14 -0700

I tried YET AGAIN to purchase _Brigham City_ in VHS form.  Unsuccessful. It was
only available in DVD.  Richard, where is it available?  Do you have a marketing
staff to help you make it more widely accessible?



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Box Office Report Nov. 8 02
Date: 12 Nov 2002 22:20:00 -0600

Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors 

Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) 

Weekend of November 8, 2002 

Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com 

[If table below doesn't line up properly, 
try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.]  

Natl  Film Title                Weekend Gross
Rank  LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor  Total Gross Theaters Days
---  ----------------------------- -----------  -----  ----
 2   The Santa Clause 2             24,734,523  3,352    10
     Cinco Paul (screenwriter)      60,038,513

11   Punch-Drunk Love                2,501,670  1,293    31
     Actors/characters:             14,513,079
         David Stevens,
         Nathan Stevens,
         Michael D. Stevens,
         Jim Smooth Stevens (James Smooth)

40   Master of Disguise                 85,104    116   101
     Perry Andelin Blake (director) 40,245,712

58   City by the Sea                    32,070     94    66
     Eliza Dushku (actress)         22,433,915

64   Jack Weyland's Charly              24,807     21    45
     Adam Anderegg (director)          477,631
     Jack Weyland (book author)
     Janine Gilbert (screenwriter)
     Lance Williams, Micah Merrill (producers)
     Tip Boxell (co-producer)
     Bengt Jan Jonsson (cinematographer)
     Aaron Merrill (composer)
     Actors: Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliott,
        Adam Johnson, Jackie Winterrose Fullmer,
        Diana Dunkley, Gary Neilson, Lisa McCammon,
        Randy King, Bernie Diamond, etc.

67   Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man   19,840      5   920
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   14,292,559

71   Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure   14,454     11   640
     Scott Swofford (producer)      13,587,642
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)
     Sam Cardon (composer)

79   Galapagos                           9,615      5  1109
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   13,806,856

90   China: The Panda Adventure          4,161      4   472
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    2,935,286

100  ESPN's Ultimate X                   1,701      5   185
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    4,195,710

104  Ziggy Stardust & Spiders from Mars  1,042      3   124
     Mick Ronson (2nd billed actor)    121,244


HOLIDAY BLOCKBUSTER SEASON - Last weekend's release of "The Santa Clause 2"
and "The Spy" marked the beginning of the holiday blockbuster season in
theaters. What this means for Latter-day Saint-themed films is that
independent features have a much harder time finding theaters to play in,
and it shows in our box office report for this weekend, as Latter-day
Saint-themed feature films largely dropped (at least temporarily) from the
radar. Expect some to return with stronger numbers once the season has
passed.

For example, if you live in Utah and you've been planning to see "Handcart"
again before it leaves the big screen, you may want to hurry. Since
"Handcart" opened one month ago, it has left most theaters, but it has been
continually at the Scera Theater in Orem. But its last day at the Scera is
Nov. 14th, this coming Thursday. It is also currently playing at Fiddler 6
in Cedar City, UT and Blue Mountain Cinema in Monticello, UT. Note that in
January "Handcart" will open in Arizona, California, and other states.

SPECIAL PLUG FOR OLIVIERA - We were especially thrilled to see Spanish
director Jose Maria Oliveira on the schedule for the LDS Film Festival.
Here's a man who featured LDS missionaries and gospel values in very
successful films nearly 30 years before the advent of "God's Army," yet few
people have heard of him. In addition to his pioneering work as a filmmaker,
he was also the first convert to the Church in Spain and the nation's first
stake president. His is a fascinating story, and if at all possible, you
shouldn't miss the opportunity to hear him. 

NATIONAL INTEREST IN LDS FILMMAKING? An Associated Press (AP) reporter
recently interviewed Latter-day Saint feature filmmakers Richard Dutcher and
Kurt Hale, Salt Lake Tribune movie reviewer Sean P. Means, and LDSFilm.com
co-webmaster Thomas C. Baggaley (a film composer) for an article about
Latter-day Saint-themed feature films. The resulting article appeared in the
Sunday Daily Herald and nationwide distribution is expected. You can read it
at: http://www.harktheherald.com/article.php?sid=65074&mode=thread&order=0 

SCREEN YOUR FILMS - Works From Along the Wasatch Front: Anyone can show
their short film or video at the Utah Film and Video Center (UFVC). The
roster of films for each month's screening is filled based on whichever
films are submitted first. Each screening features a number of worthwhile
films as well as a number of films that are a complete waste of celluloid,
all from Salt Lake City-area filmmakers. If you're looking for a free
opportunity to screen your short film before an audience of film-lovers,
check it out. For more information, see
http://www.ufvc.org/2002-2003/11_01_02Works/WorksNov02.html 

THUNDERBIRD FILM FESTIVAL POSITIONS AVAILABLE - For more information, see
http://www.thunderbirdfilmfestival.suu.edu/contact.html 

FREE CHARLY SCREENING AT UCLA - Melnitz Movies and the UCLA Producers
Association are presenting the Los Angeles premier of CHARLY produced by LDS
filmmaker Lance Williams. The special screening will occur November 13th,
2002 at 7:30 p.m. and will be followed by a special question and answer
session. Those interested in attending should send an e-mail to
Starbasemedia@yahoo.com. If you go, definitely take a date along, whether
it's your spouse, a girl/boyfriend or just someone you'd like to get to know
better. This is a great date movie! 

MERRILL ON LDS FILM - Academy Award-winning director Kieth Merrill (1 Oscar,
2 nominations) weighs in on the state of the LDS film scene, in a new
article published by Meridian Magazine. We are grateful to acknowledge
Merrill's kind mention of LDSFilm.com, as he did much of his research for
the article on our site. The article can be found here:
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/021107stones.html 

MERRILL IN 3D IN 2004 - New article about Keith Merrill and the new 3D IMAX
theater at Thanksgiving Point (in Lehi, Utah), and Merrill's upcoming 3D
IMAX documentary "Dinosaurs Face to Face", slated for 2004 release at the
Point. See
http://www.ucjournal.com/ucjournal/pagespeed/url/Entertainment/story/585956 

HUNTER ON OUT OF STEP, THE SOUNDTRACK - The "Out of Step" soundtrack CD is
NOW in stores. VERY, VERY eclectic. A friend in my ward in Dallas who is a
big-time music producer listened to it, thought it sounded great, and
commented that its styles are really all over the map. There's jazz, folk,
R&B, classical, and no-holds-barred rock. Alex Boye, Kriya, Sunfall
Festival, even a song by the movie's star, Jeremy Elliott (also the star of
"Charly"). Plus a lot of underscore tracks by Merrill Jenson. (Yes, THE
Merrill Jenson, the megahuge music composer himself -- he did the score for
this "little", but critically acclaimed, film.) 

The "Out of Step" novelization is also in stores right now. I've read it and
really enjoyed it. Seriously needed a decent A.P. English student to go
through it and fix some typos and minor editing problems. But this is a very
fun, interesting read. In many ways this is also the most daring story out
of all the Latter-day Saint-themd feature films. This is a VERY realistic,
highly grounded story about one young Latter-day Saint student's struggles
and romance in New York City. Everything in the movie is in there, plus a
lot of background material that wasn't in the movie. This is a must-read for
any serious fan of the "Out of Step" feature film. Speaking of which...
We'll be able to tell you SOON when the DVD will be released, AND we should
be able to tell you soon what the box office gross was. Stay tuned. 

ALSO IN STORES, SONGS FROM SEMINARY VIDEOS - Seminary's Greatest Songs
brings together the very best from over 25 years. From "The Olive Tree" and
"For Our Day" to "Like Unto Us" and "Joseph" these songs reach across
generations, helping us understand and remember important gospel truths --
Christ and His atoning sacrifice, The Prophet Joseph Smith and the
Restoration, The Book of Mormon, temples, the worth of souls, and more. A
feast of inspiring, testimony-strengthening music for all ages. Tracks
Include: I've Got to Find Out Who I Am; For Our Day; Like Unto Us; Come Unto
Him; The Olive Tree; I Have It, Why Not Share It; My Soul Hungered; Joseph;
That We May Know; Our Fathers Plan; Strength Beyond My Own; Going Home; I
Want to Be Loved; I'll Build You A Rainbow. 

HICKS MENTIONS T.C. CHRISTENSEN - Well, you heard about them weeks ago from
us, but in case you missed it, Chris Hicks mentions T.C. Christensen's new
DVDs: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,440014849,00.html By
coincidence, Hunter recently watched Christensen's "Touch of the Master's
Hand" on video. His comments: This is an old video. But it really holds up.
Fine, fine piece of filmmaking. Powerful and beautifully shot. It's only
about 20 minutes long, and makes a perfect video family home evening
activity. But, purely as a work of artistic filmmaking, regardless of
spiritual considerations, I highly recommend this film. You might have it at
home, on the Family Home Evening videos the Church released years ago,
although, obviously, only the DVD will have the director's commentary. 

BYU FILM NEWS - Final Cut 2002 DVDs are available to students for a $5
donation to the Dean's discretionary fund. Donations will be matched 5 times
by outside donors. Your $5 becomes $30! Come see the TMA Office in D-581
HFAC. 

AMIDST THE GATEWAY - "Amidst the Gateway," a 42-min. dramatic film by
Christopher S. Clark and Patrick H.Parker, will premiere at the LDS Film
Festival (Nov. 13-16). The website for the film is: http://www.lumasion.com.
There is a VERY fine-looking trailer for it. 

TRUTH AND TREASON - "Truth and Treason: The Helmuth Hubener Story" -
Produced by Rick McFarland and Matt Whitaker; Written and directed by Matt
Whitaker. Distributed by Covenant. "Truth and Treason" is the remarkable
true story of Helmuth Hubener, a young LDS German, and his heroic actions
against Hitler's Nazi regime. Using arhicval footage and still-photography
as well as new film footage shot on location in Germany, this film takes an
unprecedented in-depth look at a compelling and complex story. Available in
November - Video $19.95, DVD $24.95. Available through Deseret Book. 

SUMMER OF THE NEPHITES (AND SOME AREN'T) - A "Summer of the Nephites" movie
update from Chris Heimerdinger's newsletter: Yup, I've gone out and shot the
opening sequence for the movie. The idea was to raise money for the project,
so I decided to take the opening scene (which I thought was rather cool),
cast it, shoot it on 35mm film, edit it, do most of the advanced post
production (including music and special effects -- Editor's Note:
LDSFilm.com co-webmaster Thomas C. Baggaley will be writing the music for
this opening scene) and then use to show investors. The scene takes place in
a dark and scary section of woods and features three hunters. I played one
of the hunters, to save money of course. :^) We ended up shooting near
Duchesne, Utah with a professional cast and crew. It was an intense,
rigorous, and nerve-wracking two days, but we got 'er done, and I've already
started editing on it. When it's done, I think it will turn out to be a
great opener. Yes, and eventually it will probably be on the Secret
Spectacle. 

So what's "Summer of the Nephites" about, you might ask? Well . . . it's
about NEPHITES! Can I get away with that for now? I don't want to spoil it
before I even finish writing it. But just know that it's completely
different from my "Tennis Shoes" books--new concept, new characters--but
still a fun fantasy of mingling past and present. It will first come out as
a book next summer or fall. Then, if all goes according to ambition, it will
be on the big screen in the spring of 2004. Between now and then we just
need a few miracles. I think they'll happen. 

THE WORK AND THE STORY IS FUNNY - LDSfilm.com co-webmaster Thomas C.
Baggaley got a sneak look at a rough cut of "The Work and the Story" this
weekend. His thoughts coming away from the film? "It's destined for
greatness" - okay, if you've seen one of the earlier trailers for the film,
you probably laughed at that joke. (If not, you'll get it when you see the
film. Sorry - it's no longer on the site.) Seriously (can we say that word
in connection with a comedy?) this is going to be a very funny film,
especially for people who just love film in general. It is a different film
-- very different from any of the previous contributions to Mormon Cinema
and probably different than anything most LDS theater-goers have ever seen.
But we think that once audiences adjust to the interesting mockumentary
format of the film, they'll find themselves laughing -- a lot. Besides, you
have to laugh at just the concept that you can make a film that mocks a
genre when that genre is only a few years old as it is. 

Baggaley adds one last thought (paraphrasing that early trailer once again):
"This film is going to have some awesome music. I don't want to sound --
what's the word -- cocky? -- but they have a composer working on this film
that ... well, he's destined for greatness..." 

Hunter: Tom just saw "The Work and the Story" rough cut and I can tell that
the experience has addled his brain. He wrote this "news item", but in doing
so he quotes and paraphrases the movie and its trailer. I know what he's
talking about because I've seen the old trailer. But it's no longer online,
and most of you probably haven't seen it, so you would have no idea why he
said some of what he said. 

This whole "destined for greatness" line... That's how the movie's main
character (played by the writer/director, Nathan Smith Jones) refers to
himself in the movie. One of the funny things about the movie is that Jones'
character is a real *******, although, of course, the word ******* is never
used in the movie. Jones' filmmaker character lives in a world unto himself
without realizing the extent of his own self-delusion. 

"The Work and the Story" features a number of "movies-within-the-movie"
which send up popular movie genres, and how they might appear if given the
"LDS-themed" treatment. So imagine a Mormon housewife/director's LDS-themed
action/martial arts film. That kind of thing. And Tom forgot to mention that
the movie's other main character is played by Richard Dutcher. Dutcher also
contributed significantly to the plot. 

Tom is one of the composers for "The Work and the Story," but I'm not
working on the movie, and let me tell you straight out that after I met with
the Nathan Smith Jones I can't even think about this movie without smiling
because I think it is going to be hilarious. In my guise as "LDSFilm.com" I
hype a LOT of stuff. I don't lie to you. I don't say I like something if I
don't. But usually (whether I like something or not), I don't convey my
opinion -- I report facts and I pass on whatever the opinions of others or
press releases, etc., etc. So having said all that, let me tell you that
there are lot of things coming down the pike. I'm looking forward to all or
most of them. But at or near the top of the list of what *I* want to see is
"The Work and the Story."




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:37:46 -0700

Scott Parkin wrote about Cathy Wilson's Ephanies:

> interesting attempts to explore the nearly universal human trait to
worship.

Could the universal trait be a definite human biological situation in which
everyone begins as a child and keeps the "bent" of looking up to see the
parents? Just a comment. I liked the idea of the "God spot" and my opinion
is that it IS possible to develop it ourselves. Just as I feel that if we
are in charge of our own bodies and development we can develop enough
"glands" to be heterosexual, etc. (I just read about the sheep who had a
smaller "sexually dimorphic nucleus" bundle of neurons in the preoptic
hypothalamus for rams that rammed male rams. My question is, what do the
ewes do, do ewe know?) (This all at the risk of bringing up homosexuality
again which we beat over the head often--however, this article did say: "We
realize that sexuality is more complex in humans than  . . . in sheep.")
I hope so! I'm saying, we as "gods" of our own bodies, have the OPPORTUNITY
to take charge of ourselves and develop our own brains, our own looks, our
own sexual orientation, our own health! Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:40:26 -0700

Kim, your story about the failed block parties needs to be dramatized as a
short story.

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 14 Nov 2002 22:31:11 -0700

Since Gary Rogers' post took me particularly to task, I thought it would =
valuable to report the following:  Brother Rogers and I have since had a =
very frank, open and, in my opinion, cordial exchange of views.  I'm not =
making any judgments about this film project, nor will I until I see the =
film.  But I'm willing to report that Brother Rogers has demonstrated to =
me a willingness to engage in a productive and positive dialogue about our =
continuing differences, and that the tone he's taken in those exchanges =
has been most friendly and encouraging.  I'm looking forward to meeting =
him at the LDS film festival.

Eric Samuelsen







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] Evans Book Banned from Deseret Book (SL Tribune)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 09:27:53 +0000

Salt Lake Tribune
Thursday, November 14, 2002

[MOD: There are many posts in already related to this issue. I think it's a 
critical one for us to discuss, thoroughly but honestly, here on AML-List.]

LDS Author 's Book Deemed Inappropriate
BY CHRISTY KARRAS
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

    Nobody looked to Deseret Book as a source for steamy
romance novels, but now even tame love stories face possible
eviction from the shelves.
    The LDS Church-owned chain of bookstores has decided not
to stock copies of bestselling Utah author Richard Paul Evans'
latest book, The Last Promise, because it doesn't meet new
standards for moral content.
    Evans, whose bestselling-author status began in his home
state with sales of sugary, upbeat family-oriented stories such
as The Christmas Box, covers new territory with The Last Promise,
released last week. The book is about an American woman living
in Italy who, in the face of an abusive relationship with her
husband, turns to another man for emotional support and,
eventually, romance.
    Evans said he is surprised by the negative reaction,
especially since the affair between the woman and her male
friend is never consummated. The theme is love, not sex, he said.
    "The book is not about adultery," Evans, a practicing Mormon,
told The Tribune in an interview last week. "The book would be a
PG-rated movie, at the most."
    Still, the themes were too much for new buying guidelines
that went into effect a few weeks ago, said Sheri Dew, president
and CEO of Deseret Book. The guidelines tell the store's buyers
to avoid ordering books that clash with customers' values.
    Though the process has just begun, store employees will
eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores'
inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new
standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or Jane
Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under consideration.
    The guidelines are based on recent customer surveys that
said patrons, mostly members of the LDS Church, were upset when
they found books at the store whose messages clashed with their
values.
    "This is completely a business decision. It's not a
religious decision, it's not a moral decision. It's a customer
decision," Dew said.
    This does not appear to sever the relationship between Evans
and the chain, which Dew estimates has sold more than 100,000
copies of his previous books. Deseret Book will continue to sell
the earlier titles, and The Last Promise will be available by
special order.
    The decision also doesn't seem to have had a negative effect
on Evans' enormous popularity in Utah, the setting of most of
his books. Long lines formed at Evans' book signings this week
at Borders and Media Play.
    "We were disappointed that Deseret chose not to sell the
book, but I don't think it will hurt a thing," said Lisa Johnson,
head of publicity at Dutton, Evans' publisher.

Copyright 2002, The Salt Lake Tribune

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. 
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From: "Andrew W. Gallup" 
Subject: [AML] Book Release & Book Signings
Date: 13 Nov 2002 09:03:13 -0700


=93A Bundle of Choices: The Option Overload of LDS Mothers Today=94

By Anne-Marie Wright
Greg Kofford Books, Inc. a local LDS publisher is pleased to announce the
release of a new book by Anne-Marie Wright.  This title will be available=
 in
better bookstores after November 14th, 2002.  In association with this
release they are providing several opportunities to meet the author at th=
ree
book signings provided in conjunction with Seagull Book & Tape.  The
schedule for the book signings is as follows:
November 16th, 2002 from 2:00 to 4:00 P.M. at Seagull Book & Tape located=
 at
1720 South Redwood Rd. Salt Lake City, UT 84104
November 29th, 2002 from 2:00 to 3:30 P.M. at Seagull Book & Tape located=
 at
111 South State St. Orem, UT 84058
November 30th, 2002 from 1:00 to 2:30 P.M. at Seagull Book & Tape located=
 at
1625 W. 9000 S. West Jordan, UT 84088
Interviewing more than 100 women throughout the country, Wright brings
readers along on a personal journey toward self-discovery and understandi=
ng
of the acrobatic juggling required by LDS women today.
Children. Education. Work. Hobbies. Church. Today women enjoy more option=
s
and opportunities than ever before. Women can do anything and be anything
they want to be. But all these choices seem overwhelming at times. What d=
o
women want to do, and in what priority, and when?
The option overload presented today demands that LDS women perform a
delicate balancing act, whether by choice or circumstance. With so many
avenues available, prioritizing their lives and maintaining their sanity =
can
be complicated. Women have the world advocating the benefits of working, =
the
Church touting the joys of motherhood and the importance of education, an=
d
their own personalities and abilities weighing in as well. How do women
reconcile these competing demands and enjoy their rewards?

Anne-Marie Wright earned both her Bachelor=92s degree in political scienc=
e and
her Master=92s degree in journalism from Columbia University. She served =
as
Deputy Director of Communications for the New York City Council and has
written for several publications. She lives with her two children in Salt
Lake City.


Andrew Gallup
Greg Kofford Books Inc.
(801) 523-6063 Office
(801) 671-7470 Cellular
(801) 576-0583 Fax
P.O. Box 1362
Draper, UT 84020
agallup@koffordbooks.com
www.koffordbooks.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Markham 
Subject: Re: [AML] Women in DeVore BofM Movie
Date: 13 Nov 2002 13:50:29 -0500

Preston Hunter wrote:

> Nephi's wife is named "Miriam." The
> official website even has a picture of her... quite a striking woman.

I bit.  The website has an artist's rendition of a heavily cloaked woman with
her face exposed, one of several portraits floating in space around a topless
beefcake with rippling pecs and washboard abs.  Hunkaliscious!

My gay friends (and Barbara Hume) are rubbing their hands together in
anticipation.

Is the producer going to sue me for this scurrilous, slanderous, libelous
observation?

Tony Markham





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: [AML] Re: New Hymns (was: Recent Spoken Word)
Date: 13 Nov 2002 11:01:30 -0700

The late Clint Larsen was adament on the need for new hymns--and would, I'm
sure, have written a whole hymnbook himself if he had been given permission.
For most of us, the green hymnbook is still relatively new and does have some
nice additions from the blue one many of us grew up with and used for our
tabernacle rubbings in crayon.  The "new" book left out (as I've heard that
Michael Moody readily admits) a hymn that never should've been nixed: "Come
Thou Fount."  It also doesn't include (as Moody has purportedly said it
should've) "Amazing Grace."  Of course, I would really like some good
traditional spirituals in the hymnbook (and permission to SING THEM.  When I
was music chair, I was told we could have no sacrament meeting solos that
sounded like Negro Spirituals--which is a really stupid rule.).  I'd like some
non-European songs.  I'd like to import more hymns, like "Blessed Assurance"
and "Precious Lord".  (I sang "Blessed Assurance" in Genesis once as a solo
and Pres. Gray received a complaint that Genesis was going Baptist.  I haven't
sung a solo since.)  I'd like some songs that you'd WANT to clap to, even if
you were urged not to--songs like "This Little Light of Mine", "He's Got the
Whole World in his Hands", "O Happy Day" and "Amen!"   I definitely think the
Spanish hymn sung every Christmas in Mexico which searches for the holy baby
should be in the hymnbook, and I would like "Moscow Lights" to be given gospel
lyrics.  And I want Mormons to learn how to sing like the gospel was exciting
and maybe even joyful.  When I was choir director, I loved directing Natalie
Sleeth's "There'll be Joy in the Morning."  What a great song!

[Margaret Young]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "ROY SCHMIDT" 
Subject: [AML] Pleasant Grove Book Festival
Date: 13 Nov 2002 12:55:23 -0700

The Pleasant Grove (Utah) City Library Board of Trustees is proud to
present the Second Annual Library Book Festival, to be held at the
Pleasant Grove Junior High School (810 N 100 East) on Friday November
22, 2002 at 6:00 p.m. 

Authors in attendance will include: Chris Heimerdinger, Rachel Ann
Nunes, N.C. Allen, B.J. Rowley, Rainbow Abegg, Jeffrey Savage, Julie
Warnick, Annette Lyon, Betty Briggs, Lee Nelson, Marilyn Arnold, Chad
Daybell, James Michael Pratt, Dorothy Keddington, Janeal Meacham,
Tristi Pinkston, Craig Smith, Chris Creek, Norma Mitchell, Steve Terry
and Jill Anderson, Cheryl Carson, Colleen Harrison, and musicians
Marshall McDonald and Rob Honey.

Publishers represented include: Covenant Communications, Cedar Fort,
Granite Publishing, RoseHaven Publishing, Miles Ahead Publishing, and
Sunrise Publications among others. The ReadLeaf and Timp Bookstores
will also have booths.

In addition to the above there will be a used book sale.
Refreshments, door prizes too.

It will be a great opportunity to get some early Christmas shopping
done. All profits will go towards a new Pleasant Grove Library.

I hope to see you there.

Roy Schmidt
Pleasant Grove Library Board Member ( and door greeter at the
festival)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] Deseret Book Banning Petition
Date: 14 Nov 2002 10:37:51 +0000

After getting over the humor of seeing an Evans book banned
at Deseret Book (the store), this Tribune article gave me a
terrible chill.  They plan to go through their entire catalog
and remove any works could possibly offend anyone.  What books
of any worth will be left? I don't know what would have
disturbed me more, saying that it was a moral decision or a
buisness decision.  Sure, Deseret Book is a buisness, but it is
also a cultural institution, which becuase of its connection
to the Church acts as a kind of indicator of what is acceptable
in intermountain Mormon society among those who, well, don't
know any better.  I think it is completely appropriate for them
to draw a line somewhere, but for them to take such a narrow
definition of what is acceptable is very chilling indeed.

So, if it is just a buisness decision, perhaps more input will
sway them another way.  Maybe we can put this list to some use
beyond just our (enjoyable) gabbing.  What do you think of a
mass (as much mass as we are) petition?  Unless there is any
opposition, and if the AML board is amenable, could we do it
under the AML or AML-List banner?   I mean, we are the only
organized group of Mormon literature readers of significant size
that I know of, I think we probably represent a cross-section
of the Desret Book buying public.  Our united voices should
count for something.  Of course I would like to see a more
detailed statement from Deseret Book about what their new
guidelines entail.  I believe there are people on the list
that have connections with the company, can you find anything
out for us?

Here is the Tribune article url:
http://www.sltrib.com/11142002/utah/16358.htm

Who is willing to stand up against encroaching cultural
blandness?
What do you say?

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Movie Currently Filming: _Latter Days_
Date: 14 Nov 2002 07:30:22 -0600

Latter Days

directorial debut of "Sweet Home Alabama" screenwriter C. Jay Cox: GLBT
party boy/waiter (Wesley Ramsey of "Guiding Light") makes a bet he can
seduce an LDS missionary (Steve Sandvoss), but falls in love with him;
Joseph Gordon-Levitt ("Treasure Planet") plays the pivotal role of Ryder,
the missionary companion who discovers the romance; November 2002 filming in
Los Angeles; 2003 release

Kirkland Tibbels is producing the movie through his production company,
Funny Boy Films. "Newly formed Funny Boy Films was launched by FilmNext
President Kirkland Tibbels to independently develop, produce, and finance
gay and lesbian films, and to serve as a de facto studio, through its
association with TLA Releasing, to support the work of gay and lesbian
filmmakers."

Complete article is here:
href=http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/0,1259,---14343,00.html


- Preston Hunter




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Adams 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 14 Nov 2002 09:23:01 -0600

Well, by now I'm tired and stumped. I can't keep up going back and forth 
much longer, so I'll just accept that I was wrong.

I'm glad to hear it's not the way I perceived it. It still doesn't explain 
away my personal experience, but as Eric Samuelsen is fond of saying, I can 
only relate "this is how things look from where I'm standing." I didn't 
mean to enter into a verbal debate or overly irritate people. Thanks for 
correcting me, all of you. It's good to know things have changed in the 
last two years. The events I mentioned in my post were 3-7 years ago.

I stand by my Salt Lick analogy though. Salt should be spread out to do the 
most good, not packed into one small area. Maybe the problem lies in that, 
the high concentration. Although I do feel a definite synergy when in the 
presence of many members (like an Area Conference, etc.); it's very cool.

As for climate, I like the desert. If I had *my* druthers I'd live in 
Arizona. But I feel just as trapped in Missouri, climate-wise. Plus there 
are no mountains here. It was wonderful just to SEE mountains again--if 
only for three days. Refreshing. But the people here in Missouri are truly 
wonderful too.

 >>>  I *like* the people here and that is my point.  I hate the 
climate.  I hate deserts.  I want to go back to Washington state because I 
like rain and green things.<<<

>First, I found fliers from Christian fundamentalist denominations actively 
>recruiting their members to move here to "Christianize" us.  This 
>shouldn't be a big surprise because it is only natural that those 
>motivated by a hatred of something will turn their efforts to the largest 
>concentration of it they can find.  You see the
>same thing in Israel as well.

>  Utah has enough of a population of bitter excommunicants to make their 
> voices heard in ways not possible in other places.

Both very good points I had not considered.

> >>Mormons who ward off their children from playing at non-members' houses.
>
> >And that *doesn't* *happen*.  Not in my ward, or in my area.

No, I do *know* it's happened, from personal reports. There is probably 
good reason President Hinckley has addressed this type of inclusive 
behavior in recent conference sessions. If the people are repenting, then 
that is excellent news. I'm glad to hear it.

>Getting out more isn't going to help if you keep the blinders up.

True also.

Truce?

Linda

================



Linda Adams
adamszoo@sprintmail.com
http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 14 Nov 2002 10:46:49 -0700

Jana wrote:

 I feel indebted to Olga for inspiring my own yoga practice--I've studied
for several years, under different teachers.  I'm still a novice, and I
somtimes struggle with the postures because of my physical disability, but
it's still a great blessing in my life.

When I first learned that I could make a difference in my own health I was
studying healing among various American Indian tribes and Shamanism (which
also has strong elements in common with Mormonism.  Shamanism has as a
central belief that a man on earth can help fix things in Heaven, and a man
in Heaven can help fix things on earth.  The Church spends a lot of money
and the members spend a lot of time fixing things in Heaven.  Unfortunately,
we don't accept much help from Heaven.)

Anyway, I bought every book I could on subjects ranging from Chinese
herbalism to esoteric anatomy and yoga.  They all helped, but I was getting
discouraged and worn out.  One night I had a dream about Winston Churchill.
He pointed a finger at me and said, "Never give in.  Never, never, never
give in."  Of course, I was flattered.  Imagine a dream of one of the
greatest men of the twentieth century bothering with poor little old
one-eyed me.

So I carried on, but got discouraged again.  This time I prayed and asked
what would be the final step in my healing.  I was told T'ai Ch'i.  About a
year later I ran across the book T'ai Ch'i Classics by Waysun Liao.  I knew
it was put there for me.  I bought it, took home and read the first three
chapters and said "What the hell?"  I don't think I pick up the book again
for another year or two.  When I did I started with the form.  I only
managered one or two movements, but wow.  It's was like the second coming.

I could only do one or two movements, because my sense of balance was so
bad.  I knew I'd found something powerful and good, but I couldn't do it.
So I gave it up.  A few months later I ran into a book on Ch'i Gung--two of
them.  I bought them.  They were amazing, and I now realized they were
picked out specifically for me.  They were the very most basic forms.  I
think they were designed for one-legged whalers.  The only motion in them
was up and down--easy on the balance.  I worked very hard on those forms for
a long time.  The greatest benefit to me was that it pasified my emotions.

 When I started massage school I was taught T'ai Ch'i again.  This time I
was taught in the traditional Chinese method.  It was very hard, but I
learned how to learn.  As soon as that course was over I went back to the
Form taught in "T'ai Ch'i Classics."

A while back I had reconstructive surgery done on my jaw.  Afterward I
started doing Ch'i Gung again to recover.  I returned T'ai Ch'i soon though.
I don't know how long ago, but I was talking to someone on the list and I
recomended a book on Ch'i Gung.  I thought maybe I ought to do that again.
And I added another style of Ch'i Gung.  It's called Wuji Hundun Qigong.  It
really amazing.  This may sound crazy, but my disabilities are disappearing.
With all the stuff I did before, my disabilities were softened.  Now they're
disappearing.  It's painful at times, but wow.

I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because there
never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic.  That's hard
for me to understand, because I know the Church is true and it is the
Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers in
the Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's what
experience teaches me.

Paris Anderson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Deseret Book says no to LDS author
Date: 14 Nov 2002 15:48:20 -0700

Deseret Book says no to LDS author 

Evans 'puzzled' by refusal to carry 'The Last Promise'
By Dennis Lythgoe
Deseret News book editor 

      Richard Paul Evans of "Christmas Box" fame has a new book on the
shelves - but not the shelves of Deseret Book.
      Evans, the ad-executive-turned-novelist, said he is "puzzled" by
Deseret Book's refusal to stock "The Last Promise," which was just published
by Dutton in New York.
      "It happened in an awkward sort of way," Evans said during an
impromptu interview Wednesday at Borders in the Crossroads Plaza, where his
first book signing had been moved. "Every year I do my first book signing at
Deseret Book. So, I called my staff and they said, 'Deseret Book is not
going to do the first signing with you. In fact, they're not even going to
sell your book.'
      "I just started laughing, because I have a lot of friends at Deseret
Book. Then I realized none of my staff was laughing."
      Evans said he knows his new book is not another "Christmas Box." "It's
not a warm, fuzzy, 'Chicken-Soup-for-the-Soul' kind of book. It's a
sophisticated, adult story about a woman caught in an abusive marriage. To
me the message is as important as anything. We need to understand that we
need to take care of each other. We all need love - and if we're deprived of
it, eventually we're gonna find it. So, I wanted to write about that."
      According to Sheri Dew, president of Deseret Book, it was simply a
business decision. "We love Richard Paul Evans and have sold 100,000 copies
of his various books, and we anticipate selling tons more. But we
commissioned a study by the Wirthlin Worldwide Organization, and they told
us that a Deseret Book customer does not like to buy a book from us that
violates their core values.
      "It reinforced in our minds the fact that our customers have certain
expectations of us. In the last four months, we developed a more clearly
defined set of buying guidelines - what our customers want and what creates
a disconnect for them."
      Unfortunately, Dew said, Evans' new book centers on an adulterous
relationship. The new guidelines specifically rule out "excessive profanity,
heavy violence and immorality." Dew conceded that making this decision means
"systematically reviewing" titles the store has previously offered.
      "We love Richard, but in this book, adultery is implied - and the
bigger issue is a married woman having a physical relationship and falling
in love with a man she is not married to."
      "Adultery is a pernicious evil," Evans said. "But there is no adultery
in this book. I didn't write something that condones adultery. A man stays
with a woman through the night on the banks of the Arno River. To me, it was
a compassionate, tender thing he is doing to a woman who has been
emotionally abused for seven years."
      The passage he referred to is in chapter 31: "Dawn comes early to
Florence. It was only five o'clock, and the curtain of morning rose across
the city and exposed the two of them, still together on the bank of the
golden Arno, Eliana lying against Ross's chest, encircled in his arms. They
had talked most of the night. . . . " 
      Evans added that he suspects the flap will actually help the sales of
his book. "Now everyone wants to read the book and see what is so
controversial. None of the Deseret Book people I talked to had read the
book. I said, 'Well, who read it?'
      "I told my 14-year-old and she said, 'Dad, this isn't what your book's
about - did they get the wrong book?' "
      Evans remains proud of his book. "What is really telling is that not a
single one of the LDS booksellers - and there are hundreds of them - has
batted an eye. They've upped their orders.
      "They've been saying, 'Thank goodness! Deseret Book doesn't have it.
Now we can make some money on it.'"


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Justin Halverson 
Subject: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 14 Nov 2002 18:35:11 -0500

I was thinking about my earlier post in which I raised some questions about 
whether making the Book of Mormon into a film was a good thing, and I 
realized some assumptions on my part that might change my outlook.

My objections were centered around two main issues:
1) whether translation to a primarily visual medium was a good thing in 
terms of certain texts
2) whether submitting the Book of Mormon, a sacred text, to the conventions 
and pressures--especially economic--of the industry of cinema was a good thing.

I'm pretty sure my answer to the second is still a resounding no. That is, 
I think the requirement that a film make money colors the way in which the 
film is produced on all levels. We've already extensively discussed the 
issue of actors' unions, but little attention has been paid to how the need 
to get people in seats affects how the script will be written. You writers 
out there let me know--is there a significant risk that elements with a 
high action quotient will displace the more subtle yet certainly equally 
(if not more) significant elements in the text? (Is making this distinction 
even possible? Is there anything universally "less significant" in the Book 
of Mormon?)

The first question, though, is more complicated, and I think my previous 
post definitely demonstrated a privileging of written texts over visual 
art. This is a very old debate, and I'm not up to date on it. I wonder, 
however, whether as Mormons our doctrinal or cultural policies support such 
a privileging? We do respect the scriptures (literally, of course, the 
writings), and I've heard it said in meetings that a prophet said we'd be 
judged in part on how we treated the actual physical copies of the 
scriptures (anyone else hear this?), but we are not as exclusively "people 
of the book" as, for example, Muslims, as is evidenced in that we seem to 
feel okay about translating the Book of Mormon into different languages 
other than English, and should, since English was not its original language 
anyway. So why should it bother me if someone wants to translate it into 
film (or music, or sculpture, or whatever)? Any such translation would 
require the guidance and inspiration of the Spirit, but why should a writer 
expect more attention from the Spirit than a director (or a composer, or a 
sculptor...)?

There's much more to say, but I'll leave it at this for now.

Justin Halverson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jvkwriter@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 14 Nov 2002 23:48:07 EST

To Margaret and all...
    I can tell you from the point of view of a former Relief Society 
President and former wife of a Bishop and mother of 10 children, I have spent 
countless hours with women who were desperately grasping for something to 
give their less than perfect lives hope.  
    The LDS books and other media have so catered to the Mormon fairytale 
genre that many women have lost hope, because their lives will never fit the 
standard story line.
    I believe the trend is moving to a more realistic approach in the 
portrayal of life.  I still believe in the happy ending or maybe should I say 
and ending of "found peace."  I think our culture, more than any other, 
should offer hope to the hopeless. I also think there are few families that 
fit the perfect stereotype.  I believe the day is here to address some 
difficult issues realistically and show how, even though some situations may 
never be perfectly resolved, they can be worked through.  With the knowledge 
of the blessings of the atonement (however that issues is addressed) the main 
character or conflict can achieve peace, joy, closure, some kind of happy 
ending solution, so that the struggling people out there can find courage to 
keep trying.
    I only hope the LDS book publishers are willing to take the chance.
    Janie Van Komen




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis K. Manning" 
Subject: [AML] Re: First U.S. Feature Film
Date: 15 Nov 2002 00:41:57 -0800

Preston Hunter wrote:

Interestingly enough, the subject matter of any film about the
> Book of Mormon presents a slight semantic problem to anybody who uses the
> term "LDS-themed feature film." The Book of Mormon actually has no
> Latter-day Saints in it. It has no Mormons, either. And there are no known
> characters named "Mormon" until the very end... certainly none in 1st and
> 2nd Nephi, which would be the source of the first such films in a
projected
> series. So, technically, such a project might have to categorized as a
> "Jewish-themed feature film," in which case we would have to classify it
> with "Fiddler on the Roof", "The Ten Commandments" and "Blazing Saddles",
> rather than with "God's Army" and "The Singles Ward."

Very witty indeed!  What an interesting idear, Preston:  the Book of Mormon
as Jewish-themed feature film. . . .  I like how that sounds.  I'm even more
interested in seeing what Jews think about that idear.

"If I were a Nephite . . . !"

Travis Manning






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:00:37 -0700

margaret young wrote:
> 
> Are we raising a generation of students whose faith can't manage the
> realities the best writing must confront?  

> is the fact that we're producing
> so many "easy" movies (etc.) where sentimentality is substituted for
> earned emotion an indication that we're somehow failing to TRULY prepare
> our people for the requirements of this time?

My answer to these questions is absolutely, positively YES!!!!! Not only
a generation of students, but a whole churchful of people.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Artists Group (SLDSA)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:12:31 -0700

Kumiko wrote:
> 
> Thayne Wheeler has requested that we pass along along the following message:
> 
> The Society of Latter-Day Saint Artists (SLDSA) is an
> organization [under development] that strives to unite
> LDS artists of all fields of art into one body. Our
> main purpose is to encourage artistic creations that
> live up to our theology.

What in the world could that mean?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie in Film
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:23:11 -0700

[MOD: This is a reply to Justin's earlier post.]

Justin Halverson wrote:

> I think ultimately it's a question of translation and of responsibility:
> are we ready to translate this book? Even if we are ready, should we? Our
> readings of the Book of Mormon will be unavoidably altered (not necessarily
> in a bad way, but certainly in a limiting one) by what ends up appearing on
> the screen. To wit, consider this: what color were King Noah's clothes?
> What does Zeezrom's hairdo look like? How about facial hair? People of my
> generation often concur with me that Noah had purple robes, and that
> Zeezrom was mostly bald, that Abinadi and Noah had beards (though Abinadi's
> was white while Noah's was black) due to the images in the picture books of
> the Book of Mormon stories we read as children.

I don't get this concern that Justin (and others) are expressing about a
Book of Mormon film. These concerns could be said about anything adapted
to film. These concerns have already been realized by the Friberg
paintings we are used to, as Justin illustrates here. Just like "The
William Tell Overture" will forever be linked to "The Lone Ranger,"
Richard Strauss' "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and Johann Strauss' "Blue
Danube Waltz" will always be linked to "2001: A Space Odyssey," and
"Night on Mt. Baldy" will forever evoke Disney fire imps dancing around.
And the hapless "Ride of the Valkyrie"? Forever linked to "Apocalypse
Now," "Vikings and Beekeepers," and "Kill the Wabbit."

This sort of thing happens all the time and is one of the risks of art.
We would have to do an enormous amount of art-burning and -censoring to
stop it.

 
> Then there's the whole debate about what it takes to get a film sold and
> viewed. Are we willing to submit this text to the market of cinema?

Why not? Is the world (or the Bible) worse off for all the adaptations
of Bible material that have occurred?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LDS Film Festival  (by way of Jonathan Langford )
Subject: [AML] LDS Film Festival Update
Date: 15 Nov 2002 17:50:16 -0600


MAILBOX NEWSLETTER #10/2002
http://www.ldsbox.com
feedback@ldsbox.com


2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002
NOVEMBER 13-16 | PROVO CITY LIBRARY


IN THIS ISSUE:
1. 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON BIG SUCCESS
2. FESTIVAL HOTLINE 
3. FESTIVAL SCHEDULE FOR TODAY AND TOMORROW
4. IMPORTANT FESTIVAL LINKS


1. 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON BIG SUCCESS

The 24-hour filmmaking marathon was an overwhelming success. 34 filmmaking groups signed up Wednesday morning to tackle the challenge of making a film in 24 hours. The theme of the marathon was "redemption." Filmmakers also had to implement an object (a bar of soap) and a dialogue line ("You can't just change..."). All but one turned in a finished film the next day. 

A sold out screening of (almost) all films Thursday night showed many different approaches to the same theme. Many films were well crafted and impressed the audience. The winner of the marathon competition will be part of the "Best of 2002" program and will also receive over $ 400.00 in cash. We congratulate all the participating groups for their excellent work and endurance.  


2. FESTIVAL HOTLINE

Call our festival hotline, if you have questions regarding the festival. We look forward to an exciting weekend with many filmmakers and films at the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002.

Call 801-687-1015 for specific information. For a detailed outline of the complete festival program go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php


3. FESTIVAL SCHEDULE FOR TODAY AND TOMORROW

Many filmmakers will be presenting today and tomorrow at the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL. Don't miss this opportunity to interact and mingle with great LDS filmmakers!  

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 15 

10.00 a.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Gary Rogers
Gary is the writer, producer, director of the upcoming "Book of Mormon Movie." He will share his vision of a Book of Mormon story and how he got his project started.

11.00 a.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Linda Thomson
Linda is the owner of Thomson Productions, the leading LDS market video distributor. Drawing from 24 years of distribution experience, she will give insights on how to land a Mormon blockbuster. 

12.00 p.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Anne Sward Hansen
Anne is the president of the actors guild SAG Utah and will show tricks and techniques for acting for film and explain how to effectively work with actors. 

1.00 p.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Adam Anderegg / Micah Merrill
Adam is the director and Micah the producer of the current LDS movie "Jack Weyland's Charly." 

2.00 p.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Kurt Hale / Dave Hunter
Kurt is the director and Dave the producer of both "Singles Ward" and "The RM." They will talk about the production of "The RM" and what they learned since the release of "Singles Ward." 

3.00 p.m. Special Screening: Amidst the Gateway
Drama/Spiritual, 42 minutes, color, 2002
Filmmakers: Christopher S. Clark / Patrick H.Parker
A young man comes to see his true self by remembering his golden, yet gloomy youth. Q&A with the filmmakers after the screening.

4.00 p.m.
Special Screening: Roots & Wings
Drama, 28 minutes, color, 2002; Filmmaker: Christian Vuissa
A husband and father struggles to accept his wife's and children's conversion to another religion. "Roots & Wings" won several awards, including Best Director and Best Screenplay at the Eclipse Film Festival. Q&A with the filmmaker after the screening.

5.00 p.m.
Competition Program B
10 short films by LDS filmmakers, including comedy, drama, animation, experimental and documentary. Go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsB.php to view a description of the films. 

5.00 p.m.
Competition Program C
10 short films by LDS filmmakers, including comedy, drama, animation, experimental and documentary. Go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsC.php to view a description of the films. 

7.30 p.m.
Competition Program A
10 short films by LDS filmmakers, including comedy, drama, animation, experimental and documentary. Go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsA.php to view a description of the films. 

7.30 p.m.
Competition Program D: Female Filmmakers
12 short films by young LDS female filmmakers, including comedy, drama, experimental and documentary. Go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsD.php to view a description of the films. 


SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 16 

10.00 a.m. Second LDS Film Forum: Fantasy and Reality in LDS Media
Perhaps no other debate in film history has been as great as that about the nature of reality in cinema. LDS films pose an even greater challenge due to the Latter-day Saint view of reality in life and divergent views on its place in fiction. Presenters have been invited to discuss the roles of reality and fantasy in LDS media past, present, and future. 
Presenters include: Susan Rather, Eric Eliason, Sharon Swenson, Eric Samuelsen, Ben Unguren. Mediated by Gideon Burton.

12.30 p.m. Panel Discussion: The LDS Cinematic Audience
Last year's festival featured a panel discussion on the nature of LDS cinema, including its place in private and commercial distribution channels. This year's panel focuses on that issue by examining the nature of the LDS film audience: exactly who and where they are, what it is that they "want," and what further steps may be necessary to truly establish an audience and, therefore, an identity for "LDS cinema." 
Panelists include: Adam Anderegg, Sharon Swenson, Chris Heimerdinger, Ben Unguren, Dean Hale, Mediated by Gideon Burton 

2.30 p.m. Filmmaker's Presentation: Dean Hale
Dean Hale is in charge of film distribution at Excel Entertainment Group. He brought "God's Army." "Brigham City," "The Other Side of Heaven" and "Charly" into theaters across the country. 

3.00 p.m.
Screenplay Reading
A 2-hour script reading and discussion of this year's winning short screenplays will illustrate what a great script is all about. Screenplay judge Eric Samuelsen will lead the discussion. Everyone is invited to participate in the reading. 

3.30 p.m.
Special Screening: Lehi's Land of First Inheritance
Documentary, 60 minutes, color, 2002
Filmmakers: Chris Heimerdinger/David C. Asay 
Joseph L. Allen, Ph.D. introduces you to some of the astonishing parallels between the Book of Mormon and the archeology, written language, history, culture and geography of ancient and modern Central America. Q&A with the filmmakers after the screening. 

5.00 p.m. Best of Competition 2002
The very best films of 2002 by LDS filmmakers, including comedy, drama, animation, experimental and documentary.

7.30 p.m. Best of Competition 2002
The very best films of 2002 by LDS filmmakers, including comedy, drama, animation, experimental and documentary.

10.00 p.m. Award Ceremony & Party
Who will win the prestigious LIGHTBOX AWARD 2002?

Musical guests are Dave Eaton and Ambiguous Sun (Friday night) and Stephanie Smith (Saturday night). 


4. IMPORTANT FESTIVAL LINKS

The following festival links will provide you with helpful information:

ADMISSIONS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/tickets.php
FESTIVAL PROGRAM OVERVIEW: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program2002.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM A: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsA.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM B: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsB.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM C: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsC.php
COMPETITION PROGRAM D: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/shortsD.php
FILMMAKER'S PRESENTATIONS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/filmmakers.php
SPECIAL SCREENINGS: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/screenings.php
LDS FILM FORUM: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/filmforum.php
24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/marathon.php
FESTIVAL JUDGES: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/judges.php


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jhotodd@aol.com
Subject: [AML] _I Am Jane_ in Washington DC
Date: 15 Nov 2002 11:13:29 EST


We were recently at the Washington, DC Temple and Visitors' Center and saw 
flyers for the production of "I Am Jane". We're thrilled to know that it's 
coming out east. We're seriously considering making the 8 hour drive in 
February to see it. (We live in Ohio)

JH Todd 


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:37:26 -0800

You have zeroes in on a very important question.

I will go out on a limb here and risk the wrath of the listowner and others by 
swearing, but just once.  It's necessary to tell this story.

I was at DI a few months ago and was chatting with one of the managers. He's a 
former bishop, a very nice fellow, but a bit anal (that's not the swear word, it's yet to 
come) from time to time.  I can remember when he first started working there, he 
refused to put out a Mr. Coffee coffee maker that someone had donated.  "We 
shouldn't be encouraging people to sin," he explained.  Thankfully,he's gotten beyond 
that.

We were talking about something, I don't remember what, when I replied, "You know, 
I just don't give a damn.  (There, that's the swear word.)  He flinched and said to me 
something like, "When you're on church property, you are not to use such 
language."

My answer, "In other words, Brigham Young would be shown the front door post 
haste.  And J. Golden Kimball?  Forget it!"  He was blissfully unaware that early 
leaders were really quite earthy.  It came as something of a shock.

If you were to go by most Mormon literature, one indeed gets a skewed impression 
of real life.  And, as such, it does not prepare the children to deal with real life.  
However, I don't see that as much of a problem.  The kids don't read much, anyway, 
and they, I suspect, get *plenty* of real life at school and on the streets, anal-
retentive former bishops notwithstanding.



------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@general.com 
or
jeffneedle@tns.net







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: [AML] Re: Reading Copies (was: Kofford Books)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 09:41:06 -0800

11/12/2002 6:48:21 PM, Barbara Hume  wrote:

>At 11:46 PM 11/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>As there is an advance reading copy for sale on the Deseret Book auction 
>>site even as we type, I'd guess that the wait will not be long.
>
>People are not supposed to sell their advanced reading copies! That's why 
>it says "Not for resale" right on the cover. Someone is breaking faith with 
>the publisher and with the writer. Don't buy it.
>
>barbara hume
>

I agree entirely.  This is disgraceful, on many levels.

I have a large collection of "do not sell" copies of books.  If I ever get right of them, 
they are passed along to another reader, long after the book is actually published, 
with the understanding that they are for reading only.


------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@general.com 
or
jeffneedle@tns.net







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lynette Jones 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:07:11 -0700

Thorn wrote:

>What would be a working model of LDS readers?  Recent converts?
>Long-time converts?  Men?  Women?  Boys?  Girls?  LDS converts and
>life-time members from other countries?  From the Wasatch Front?  LDS
>Democrats, or Republicans?  Married, divorced, etc.

         Well, I agree that if that is your model, then . . .
>Honesty.  Pure and simple.  If you tell
>the story of a recent convert, tell it honestly.  If you tell the story
>of a divorced LDS woman, tell it honestly.  That ought to be the
>unifying principal in the art we produce.

. . . is the proper model.  However, in my extended family there is a huge 
untapped audience of folks with learning limitations of some kind.  Some 
will only read books of deep philosophy, others read tech manuals and 
explain them to those who can't wade through them.  Others are still 
untouched by the need to read at all.  Others find music or poetry in it's 
simplest form as the most they can handle.  Do we have authors who write to 
inspire 1st graders to read?  Do we have such for 7th graders who need a 
boost?  Does it have to be a reader?  Or is it possible that we can reach 
each new generation with fresh ideas?  Will we teach them what the last 
generation learned so they can expand our horizons with their new 
adventures.  How well equipped are we sending them out?

Lynette Jones
(My first response to this subject goes here too.)






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Morgan Adair" 
Subject: [AML] Re: Reading Copies
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:05:41 -0700

>>> barbara@techvoice.com 11/12/02 07:48PM >>>
>
>People are not supposed to sell their advanced reading copies! That's =
why=20
>it says "Not for resale" right on the cover. Someone is breaking faith =
with=20
>the publisher and with the writer. Don't buy it.

The "not for resale" is there to prevent bookstores or dealers from =
selling the advanced reading copy as if it were a published copy of the =
book. ARCs are frequently printed before the final copy edit, and are =
almost never printed or bound as well as the published book. Someone who =
bought an ARC thinking it was the published book would probably feel =
cheated, and it would reflect badly on the publisher to have poorly bound =
and edited copies of their book in circulation. Many book collectors are =
interested in ARCs as an early (sometimes first) "state" of the published =
work. ARCs may also have marginal notes from reviewers or editors. ARCs =
become the property of whoever the publisher chooses to give them to, and =
the owners can sell them if they want. Because few ARCs are printed, they =
frequently become more valuable than the book's first printing. About a =
year ago, Signature Books had a book signing scheduled for the publication =
of Michael Quinn's biography of J. Reuben Clark, but the book didn't come =
back from the printer in time. So Signature printed ARCs of selected =
chapters from the book and had Quinn sign and number them as a collectible =
for people who attended. I have two (my wife came with me to the signing), =
and will probably sell one someday.

MBA






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] Re: Buying _Brigham City_ Video (comp 1)
Date: 15 Nov 2002 18:04:08 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

>From mjjones@xelent.com Thu Nov 14 23:16:26 2002

The Brigham City VHS is available online at www.clicktobuyonline.com.  If =
you still can't get it there, let me know....
Mary Jane Jones

>From Jhotodd@aol.com Fri Nov 15 09:05:32 2002

We just purchased Brigham City in VHS at the "This is the Place" bookstore 
near the Washington DC Temple. 

JH Todd

>From RichardDutcher@aol.com Fri Nov 15 10:55:20 2002
In a message dated 11/14/02 8:57:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
margaret_young@byu.edu writes:

<< I tried YET AGAIN to purchase _Brigham City_ in VHS form.  Unsuccessful. 
It was
 only available in DVD.  Richard, where is it available?  >>

You can buy VHS copies of "BRIGHAM CITY" at virtually any LDS bookstore. 
Retail, on line, whatever. But you won't be able to find it outside the LDS 
market for a few more months.

Or...you could come by my office and I'll trade you one "Brigham City" for an 
autographed copy of your most recent (or favorite) book. 

Now there's a win-win situation.

Richard




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy
Date: 15 Nov 2002 18:03:59 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

[MOD: The first item here is a note that Andrew attached to a version of the Deseret News article that he forwarded to AML-List. I had already posted another version of that article to the list, however (forwarded by Chris Bigelow). So here's Andrew's note, sans the article to which it was originally attached.]

>From andrewrhall@hotmail.com Thu Nov 14 17:53:29 2002

This clerifies the situation some, but I am still very
concerned.  Will books with any adultry, even when portrayed
as a tragedy, be banned?  Anna Karenina? The Scarlet Letter?
I bet they are setting a tighter standard for Mormon authors,
I think Desret Book knows Mormon readers are often more
uncomfortable reading about sin if the author or charachters
are Mormon (if it is anyone else, fine).  So if a reader
wants to buy any fiction that tackles difficult issues at
Deseret Book, they should stay away from the Mormon fiction
section.  How very sad.

Andrew Hall


[MOD: I'm taking it on myself to add this post to this thread, rather than 
keeping it as a response to Margaret's comments on the BYU Professor 
Problems thread. Hope Dorothy doesn't mind...]

>From dorothy@lds-index.org Fri Nov 15 09:25:40 2002

Margaret Young wrote:

> Do you list members think
> we're getting better at developing fiction/plays/films which reflect the
> depth of faith Mormonism requires, or is the fact that we're producing
> so many "easy" movies (etc.) where sentimentality is substituted for
> earned emotion an indication that we're somehow failing to TRULY prepare
> our people for the requirements of this time?

Margaret's comments are in response to an experience as a BYU professor.  I
have a different one that relates to the same issue.  A representative from
one of the smaller Mormon publishers called me yesterday regarding my novel,
which I submitted to them a year ago.  Ironically they logged it in on Sept.
11, 2001.  They have just gotten it back from one of their readers with a
good review and wanted me to do some rewriting and resubmit it.  As it
happens I am under contract with an agent representing that novel and can't
do that for the time being.

In the course of our conversation I asked the rep if she had read the novel
and if she knew that its heroine commits adultery.  She said she did not
know that and that it would definitely be an issue.  According to her,
Deseret Book, who everyone knows has a monopoly on LDS book sales at least
everywhere in the world except Utah and maybe Utah too, is not becoming more
liberal in their acceptance of the kind of Mormon literature Margaret
describes above, but on the contrary is tightening their standards.  The rep
thus agreed that they probably would refuse to sell the book in their
stores.  The point here is that the theme of the novel is faith, repentance,
and forgiveness, not adultery.  The adultery is merely the "inciting
incident" as Marilyn Brown would describe it (I enjoyed Marilyn's discussion
group at the recent AML conference, by the way).

How can you have a story about faith, repentance, and forgiveness if there
is nothing to repent over or forgive, and nothing that requires faith?  The
use of sin to evoke gospel thought on faith and repentance, the primary
issues missionaries are sent out to teach, is an appropriate example of what
Margaret refers to as "earned emotion." There's a wonderful essay in Eugene
England's collection of essays titled TENDING THE GARDEN (I can't find my
copy at the moment and therefore can't give the author credit for which I
apologize) in which the author uses Flaubert's MADAME BOVARY as a model
describing how we as mortals can avoid making mistakes by experiencing the
mistakes of others through literature.  He makes the point that we were
designed by our Father to learn through experience, and that literature
helps us capitalize on that God given propensity without having to
experience the sin ourselves.  It is hard to understand why Deseret Book and
others in Mormon Letters who have the power to make a difference do not
understand that.

Dorothy W. Peterson
http://www.lds-index.org
dorothy@lds-index.org

>From pdhunter@wt.net Fri Nov 15 10:37:51 2002

Evans' publicists are probably doing cartwheels right about
now.

His book was always intended for a national market, not the
Deseret Book market, and now he is being cast as a serious
author, with a new serious, banned (i.e., literary) book, in
newspapers and other media sources all over the world. We
should all be so lucky.

This is mostly a win-win situation. Evans' book gets some
fantastic publicity. Deseret Book's decision is the right
thing, and serves its customers. The only down side I see is
that Deseret Book will look, to some people, a bit silly.
But I can totally see how the decision not to carry Evans'
book is a business one, and I'm glad the Deseret Book
president stated it's not a moral decision at all.

- Preston Hunter

>From ThomDuncan@prodigy.net Fri Nov 15 11:06:07 2002

>    Though the process has just begun, store employees will 
>eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores' 
>inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new 
>standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or 
>Jane Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under consideration.

Henceforth, I will be shopping at Seagull Books.

Thom Duncan

>From ameliaparkin@hotmail.com Fri Nov 15 11:39:49 2002

>From the _Tribune_ article about _The Last Promise_ and Deseret Book:

   "Though the process has just begun, store employees will
eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores'
inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new
standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or Jane
Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under consideration.
   The guidelines are based on recent customer surveys that
said patrons, mostly members of the LDS Church, were upset when
they found books at the store whose messages clashed with their
values."


What a sad commentary on the stores' "patrons, mostly members of the LDS 
Church."  How pathetic that they cannot even tolerate the *presence* of 
books that may challenge or clash with their values.  The store management 
does not force a patron to purchase, or even to look at, a book that they 
*may* disagree with morally or ethically (the emphasis on may because I 
highly doubt that most of the patrons who object to such materials have even 
bothered to read them thoroughly enough to even know if they are truly 
objectionable).  This is the attitude of a child, an inexperienced human 
being who recognizes the appearance of something wrong but cannot 
necessarily differentiate between a work that is morally unsound and a work 
that uses moral questions in order to provoke thought and consideration, a 
person who cannot accept the realities and difficulties of the world but 
would rather live in a bubble of alleged perfection.

Consider what will happen at Deseret.  Consider every piece of fiction you 
have ever read.  _Madame Bovary_ which is very much about adultery but which 
is also a beautiful love story. [spoin alert: if you haven't read _Madame 
Bovary_, skip the next two sentence.]  At the end of the novel, just before 
she dies, Madame Bovary realizes how very much her husband loves her.  And 
he realizes how much he loves her.  The scene moved me in ways few other 
scenes in books have.  _The Scarlet Letter_, mentioned in the article, which 
deals with adultery and self-punishment but also with repentance, charity, 
and forgiveness.  Nathaniel Hawthorne's short stories which frequently deal 
with issues of faith and doubt.  How about Shakespeare?  (By the way, isn't 
he the one we're supposed to emulate? at least that's implied in the 
statement that someday we'll have a Mormon Shakespeare.)  Hardy, Dickens, 
Eliot, the Brontes (all three), Ford, Joyce, Woolf, Dickinson, Whitman, 
Christina Rossetti, Wilde, Lawrence, Faulkner, Fitzgerald.  I think I could 
find something "objectionable" on either moral or doctrinal grounds in every 
piece of literature I have ever read in my entire life.

What does that leave for Deseret's patrons, typically Latter-day Saints?  
That leaves works by other Latter-day Saints, for the most part.  Not even 
all of those.  Most of them would be blatantly Mormon.  Most of Orson Scott 
Card's works, for instance, could be dismissed as "morally offensive".  How 
much more isolated do we have to become before we will collapse on ourselves 
from the sheer weight of our own ignorance?  Of course there is plenty of 
room for all of the authors I listed above to remain at Deseret.  There's 
lots of room for a double standard.

I have two words for this.  one is ignorant.  the other is pathetic.

Amelia Parkin

>From wwbrown@burgoyne.com Fri Nov 15 12:34:00 2002

WELL! YOU KNOW WHAT? Evans' book probably belongs in that fourth category of
Eric Samuelsen's wonderful PECULIARITIES drama. I LOVED that he wrote that
play and that we saw it at the VILLA! In a little discussion with Eric and I
can't remember who else, we all agreed afterwards that "emotional adultery"
is by far the most frightening and subtle of the "sins." And you know what,
Eric? I for one am SO GLAD you exist and that you have the foresight to see
this! Because IT IS ONE OF THE WORST KILLERS in today's LOOSE world. You
know what? It takes GUTS to get and STAY married, and to make it WORK. THAT
is what somebody needs to write about. I haven't read Evans' book, but I am
impressed that DES book would take such a step. And when they didn't like my
"page" in OQUIRRHS I changed it. I KNOW that literature wants to be
REALISTIC, and there is certainly a lot of pressure from this list to allow
it. But when Brigham Young talked about "theatre" (entertainment, or
literature), his stance on it was that we present evil as evil. The LOVE
that is shared in "emotional adultery" is really not love. Marilyn Brown



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kelly Thompson" 
Subject: [AML] Re: Polygamy (was: Jana Riess)
Date: 14 Nov 2002 21:57:49 -0700

[MOD: As I think I commented earlier, I realy don't want us to get into a 
thread on polygamy per se, particularly not at this current high-volume 
time. However, I'm not willing quite yet to cut off this discussion. I 
reserve that as an option, however, if the discussion continues in a purely 
doctrinal/historical, as opposed to literary, direction.] 

This thread about polygamy interests me. I'd like to share a few thoughts=
. A good friend of my family and a professor at BYU (in the International=
 Relations department), Valerie Hudson Cassler (a brilliant woman), and h=
er associate Don Alma Sorensen co-authored a book titled Women in Eternit=
y, Women in Zion (I may have mixed up those two lines). Their work beauti=
fully outlines how women are equal with men is God's eyes. (The only way =
that I know that this book is available is from the authors). They do so =
using the scriptures and boy, do they ever. =20

One of the fascinating things about this publication is that it has a bea=
utiful chapter on polygamy. Cassler and Sorensen say that there is a reas=
on why section 132 of the D&C juxtaposes Abraham and his trials with that=
 of the introduction of polygamy. They are trials of sacrifice. There are=
 frequently situations where the exception to the rule is required when i=
t is for the greater good. One example is the Savior's sacrifice. As we k=
now, of all people, He did not deserve to die. But, for the greater good =
He submitted to the Father's will. Cassler and Sorensen put forth that wh=
ile monogamy is the rule, polygamy is the exception when God commands it.=
 And yes, there is great sacrifice involved. This sacrifice is for the gr=
eater good of God's purposes. However, the Lord is very mindful of the so=
rrow, suffering, and sacrifice made by those who enter into polygamous si=
tuations. Cassler and Sorensen suggest that there is a ram in the thicket=
 for those who are unhappy in such situations.

I find much comfort in their presentation of polygamy.

Kelly 

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 15 Nov 2002 02:28:53 -0700

William Morris wrote:

> I think more than anything, some list members feel that many of these film
> announcements (and sometimes the final products themselves) take the
> Mormon arts community and the Mormon audience as a whole for granted, that
> the filmmakers have the perception that they should be lauded just because
> they are making a film for Mormons.

You got that one right. This is why my reaction to the announcements of
both Book of Mormon films was that I expect to "puke at them." But I'm
always happy to eat such words if necessary.

(I hope that unfortunate juxtaposition didn't evoke the image of eating
vomit in anyone's mind. Oops, I guess I just evoked that image anyway.)

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Spiritual Memoirs
Date: 15 Nov 2002 10:26:36 -0700

I found the following reportage from Publishers Weekly quite interesting.
[Jonathan, it's part of a larger piece, so hopefully this excerpt meets your
"fair use" criteria for posting.] The term "spiritual memoir" is not one I
remember hearing much, if at all, in Mormon circles before, but maybe it's a
term we should start using more to help us dovetail with the national
market. We need to get some more Mormon spiritual memoirs into the national
arena (seems like the main two I'm aware of are _Refuge_ and _Expecting
Adam_, neither of which really confronts Mormonism head on).

Sue Monk Kidd: Dissenting Daughter Dances Again

During last winter's tour to promote her first novel, "The Secret Life of
Bees" (Viking), Sue Monk Kidd discovered her audiences--nearly all
women--were filled with two types: half were diehard fans of "The Dance of
the Dissident Daughter," her 1996 spiritual memoir, and the other half had
no idea she had ever written nonfiction. As is often the case, those who
loved the novel wanted to get their hands on anything else she had written.
Now they'll be able to get the story of Kidd's feminist spiritual awakening
in paperback. Although the hardcover of "Dissident Daughter" had been
"chugging along nicely," Harper San Francisco decided to release it in paper
this September in an attempt to capture fans of the bestselling "Bees." "I
think her fiction readers will find a lot to absorb in 'Dissident Daughter,'
especially since there are some parallel themes," said HSF associate editor
Renee Sedliar. "Obviously, people are still hungry for this [sort of book]."


Starving may be a more appropriate description, judging from the number of
spiritual memoirs still being released by religion houses. Although quantity
often brings an accompanying decline in quality, several spiritual memoirs
still made it onto PW's list of Best Religion Books of 2002 (Nov. 4),
including "Grace Matters" by Chris Rice (Jossey-Bass), "The New Rabbi" by
Stephen Fried (Bantam), "Girl Meets God" by Lauren F. Winner (Algonquin) and
"Why I Am a Catholic" by Garry Wills (Houghton Mifflin).  

Kidd never set out to write spiritual memoir; in fact, she always dreamed of
being a novelist. "But I got diverted even before I got started," Kidd told
BookLine, with a touch of South Carolina drawl. "I was always compelled to
write personal narrative, but I didn't even know to call it spiritual
memoir. I simply thought of it as taking my own story and putting it into
narrative to see it in context and derive meaning. I guess I understand my
life through writing."  

First came "When the Heart Waits" (Harper San Francisco, 1992), Kidd's
inspirational account of her own personal pain and spiritual awakening.
"Dissident Daughter" continued the story of her conversion from conventional
Episcopalian church-goer to an awakened feminist with a need for feminine
images of the divine. "It's a book about a way of being spiritual as a
woman," explained the author, who is currently at work on a second novel,
which also will have spiritual undertones.  

Sedliar said what makes "Dissident Daughter" the benchmark by which she
judges all spiritual memoirs that cross her desk is its universal appeal.
"It's not just her story, it's a universal story." That's what continues to
make the genre so popular. "I don't think spiritual memoir is going to lose
its appeal," said Kidd. "When people articulate the truth of their own
experience, there will always be interest in that because when it's well
written, it mirrors their own truth." --Heidi Schlumpf

[Back to Chris]:
What makes this doubly interesting to me is that the HarperCollins editor
quoted, Renee Sedliar, is currently considering my own memoir proposal. I
don't have any idea if she'll take it, but even if she doesn't maybe it will
help put the idea of a Mormon spiritual memoir more in the forefront of her
mind for someone else to capitalize on. (And I hope that same thing has gone
on with the all-too-many other editors who have already passed on my
proposal, including two earlier ones at HSF.)

Additional note: The other day I noticed a call for info on the PW website
for an upcoming Dec. 16 feature in the mag on spiritual/religious memoirs
and autobiographies, which we should read with great interest.

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] Resend of Books Up for Review
Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:52:03 -0600

[MOD: Jeff Needle alerted me that this came out in a strange format for some=
=20
of you, so I'm resending it. Please note that any requests for reviews=20
should be directed to Jana at the address below, *not* done as a reply to=20
this post.]

Hi folks!

Here's a new list of books up for review.  If you'd like to review one of=
 the following titles please email me  with your choices=
 and qualifications. =20

A few reminders:
--reviews are due one month from receipt of the book
--if you haven't posted your last review, please don't request a new  one
--your 'payment' for these books is your completed review
--AML-List reviews may be considered for publication in Irreantum magazine
--book summaries are at the publisher's website (please read the summary=
 _before_ you request so you know what you're asking for)

New to the review program??  Find out more about it at=
 .

Best wishes,=20
Jana Remy
AML-List Review Editor

Covenant: (www.covenant-lds.com)

A Guiding Star by Anita Stansfield

Power of Deliverance by David G. Woolley

Faith of our Fathers by N.C. Allen

Abandoned by Jennie Hansen

Lost and Found by Clair Poulsen

Beyond Summer Dreams by Jennie Hansen

Lost Without You by Annette Lyon

The Return by Robert Marcum

Jesus Said=85. by Debbie G. Harman

Heroes of the Bible by Toni Sorenson Brown

Christmas Oranges, re-told by Linda Bethers

The Prayer Tree by Rainbow Abegg

Into the Fire by Jeffrey Savage

Until Proven Guilty by Betsy Brannon Green

Deep Waters by Thomas Eno

The Plan of Salvation by Matthew B. Brown


Deseret Book: (www.deseretbook.com)

Troubled Waters by Dean Hughes

The World Turned Upside Down by Ron Carter


Cedar Fort: (www.cedarfort.com)

500 Little Known Facts in Mormon History by George W. Givens

Principles of Progression by Kevin Stott

A Trusting Heart by Shannon Guymon



Sunrise Books: (www.sunrisebooks.com)

The Path to Mountain Meadows by Beth Shumway Moore





- AML-List Magazine, a daily selection of posts from AML-List. See AML-List=
 archives at http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ivan Angus Wolfe 
Subject: [AML] Tooting My Musical Horn
Date: 15 Nov 2002 14:53:41 -0700 (MST)

Though I don't play the horn 

Okay - I know y'all just can't get enough of my music, and this Christmas season
allows you to get plenty of it.

1. On Mark Geslison and Geoff Groberg's new Covenant records Christmas album "A
Timeless Christmas" there is one track (Wexford Carol) that features me on
guitar and with co-arranging credit.
http://deseretbook.com/store/product?product_id=100053425

2. InVoice Records, a new label in SLC will alos be featuring a new sampler CD
of Christmas music:
On Bonnie Egbert's track "May We See Him" I play an Irish Bouzouki
http://www.invoicerecords.com/ctbethlehem.html
(This link has MP3 samples of the song)

3. and finally, a track under my own name!  Ivan Wolfe and Friends do
"Pat-a-Pan" on the new TSSA (Timpanogos Singer-Songwriter Alliance) Sampler
Christmas CD.  This track features me on Bouzouki and Bodhran (as well as a
co-arranger).
http://www.timpanogos.org/cds/
(this link doesn't have the info yet, but it should soon.  I'm about to get my
copies of the CDs today).

So, anyway - enjoy!

--Ivan Wolfe





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Willson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 15 Nov 2002 17:38:23 -0800


Thom Duncan wrote:
> Everyone of those type of LDS would have something different they would
> be interested in.  I think you already defined the working model in the
> snipped part of your response: Honesty.  Pure and simple.

I'm not sure whether all these readers want honesty. Most of the people who
come to Deseret Books to buy their reading material are looking for the
sugar coated version. These readers will put a book down and never finish it
if they come across a single curse word, or if sex is mentioned or
intimated. More than likely the books with those elements would be difficult
to at D. B.  I think it is very difficult, maybe even impossible,  to write
an honest story without some of these seamy elements.
Actually it is kind of funny, because the scriptures contain many instances
of begats and looking upon women and of men and women knowing, and lying
with one another. If we translated all of that into modern language we would
have to give some of the scriptures, at the very least, an "R" rating,
especially if we tried to make a realistically accurate movie. Of course
this is all offered up in my own twisted opinion 8-). Finally, let me say I
believe the scriptures to be holy, despite all of the above, and if the
scriptures are holy despite these things then real life is holy too, and we
should not be afraid to portray it in all its holy beauty.

Regards,
Bill Willson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Boyd Petersen 
Subject: [AML] Re: Reading Copies
Date: 15 Nov 2002 17:42:21 -0700

What I think is disgraceful is that my book only made $30 for the person
selling it. It's worth MUCH, MUCH more than that! ;)

--Boyd





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Perry" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 15 Nov 2002 18:31:31 -0800


On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 10:01  AM, margaret young wrote:

> The late Clint Larsen was adament on the need for new hymns--and 
> would, I'm
> sure, have written a whole hymnbook himself if he had been given 
> permission.

Who needs permission?    Write 'em.

John Henry Newman wrote "Lead Kindly Light" without a hymnal submission 
deadline looming and it hasn't fared too badly.

Imagine wandering the shimmering Italian landscape with St. Francis of 
Assisi and hear him sigh a gentle and joyful "Alleluia" as he takes it 
all in (Hymns, #62); squeeze into a wooden pew and hear the voice of 
Martin Luther preach "He overcometh all, he saveth from the fall 
(Hymns, #68);" or hold your breath and listen with Sarah Adams when her 
lips are the first ever to whisper, "E'en though it be a cross that 
lifteth me, still all my song shall be Nearer my God to Thee (Hymns, 
#100).

Just write 'em.

:-)

Steve






--
skperry@mac.com
http://www.StevenKappPerry.com





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Adams 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 15 Nov 2002 13:56:56 -0600

Omygoodness. Things in my book coming true. This is VERY creepy!!

Linda


At 02:14 PM 11/12/02, you wrote:
>Simplified
>considerably, the idea goes like so: When the right hemisphere of the brain,
>the seat of emotion, is stimulated in the cerebral region presumed to control
>notions of self, and then the left hemisphere, the seat of language, is called
>upon to make sense of this nonexistent entity, the mind generates a "sensed
>presence."

Linda Adams
adamszoo@sprintmail.com
http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Johnson 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 15 Nov 2002 22:22:40 -0500

At 11:01 AM 11/13/02 -0700, you wrote:
>
> "Amazing Grace."  

I was pleased to hear the Motab sing Amazing Grace a while ago on TV (I'm
old, can't remember the occasion--the Olympics?)

Of course, I would really like some good
>traditional spirituals in the hymnbook (and permission to SING THEM.  When I
>was music chair, I was told we could have no sacrament meeting solos that
>sounded like Negro Spirituals--which is a really stupid rule.).  

Eleven years on the High Council, and as part of my sermon on the Atonement
every Easter (almost always in a different unit) I concluded the sermon
with _Were You There_.  That way I picked the soloist, even if the Bishop
didn't know it was coming. (Actually, after eleven years, the word got around)

I remember that I was asked, almost constantly to sing_How Great Thou Art_
at funerals, and once at the final meeting when our Stake President was
being released so he could travel "west".  It was hard to find a copy, even
in Christian Book Stores.  Imagine my shock to find it in the new Hymn
Book.  I can think  of a dozen songs I would like to sing in church that
I'm not allowed to, so I joined a Southern Gospel Quartet and sing them at
"other services".

Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com)
Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director,
Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool.
I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important
http://www.PuppenRich.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Deborah Wager 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 15 Nov 2002 22:17:38 -0700

Linda, You don't need to accept that you were wrong, because my 
experience more closely matches yours than Jacob's. In my neighborhood, 
a bit further east but probably not more affluent than Jacob's (since he 
brought it up), I'm not aware of children being told not to play with 
non-Mormon neighbors, but:

When an announcement was made in my ward's Relief Society by a sister 
trying to form an evening play group for Primary-aged children and 
teenagers, she specified that it was for everyone, both LDS and Non, to 
promote friendships and feelings of community, "and then maybe they'll 
be willing to listen to the gospel." All this with tears in her eyes 
from the emotion she was feeling about the importance of binding the 
community together.

My daughter's kindergarten teacher (non-LDS, active in the community, 
loved by one and all as far as I could tell) moved back to California 
with her family last year, in large part because her kids were not 
accepted here. Her daughter had no close friends, was never asked out on 
dates, was never called to babysit for neighborhood families because 
they always used only the ward list to call babysitters.

A Jewish eighth-grade girl transferred schools two years ago because she 
was so miserable and excluded at her neighborhood school. As a 
non-mormon she felt looked down on by one and all. She transferred to a 
magnet school where she was more accepted for her talents, but still 
cried out in frustration at the way the mormon kids so casually assumed 
that their church experience was universally held.

Okay, this happened six years ago, but I was amazed shortly after we 
moved to Utah to hear a 50-ish man stand up in testimony meeting and say 
how glad he was to move Back Home to Utah after 20 years in the Mission 
Field--in Florida. By then they had not only stakes but a temple!

Closer to my heart, if not my home, my brother left the state three 
years ago because he could no longer stand to live here. I don't know 
all the specifics of what made him so desperate, but his wife told some 
truly horrific stories of ward member attitudes that came out during the 
move. In his Texas ward he feels much freer to be himself. Last month my 
father and his wife also left Utah; while their move to Kentucky wasn't 
motivated solely by cultural issues, he also indicated his eagerness to 
get away from Utah and the attitudes so prevalent here.

There are many things I love about being in Utah, many of them 
church-related. I love having temples so close. I love being able to 
check out the books discussed on this list from the public library. I 
love the mountains; driving up my street in the winter is a 
breath-taking experience I hope I never get used to. I love knowing that 
General Conference is actually happening only 20 miles up the road, even 
though I usually watch it on TV. (Hey, does anyone know why they lock up 
the stake centers here during General Conference?)

But I see a large number of social and environmental attitudes here that 
I believe can be directly traced to the early history of the church and 
its isolationism that promote ill will and distrust between native 
Utahns and those who come from other places. I also know non-mormons who 
live happily here, so it's not universal. I do believe it's easier for 
anyone to live here if they have a strong religious foundation, whether 
it be LDS or Jewish or Pentecostal or Mennonite.

I'm thrilled to hear things are changing, but I have to say that from 
where I stand all is not yet well in Zion on this issue.

Debbie Wager
Sandy, UT





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] David T. Strong Seeking Script Collaborator
Date: 16 Nov 2002 03:10:17 -0600

We are passing along a brief item:

[QUOTE:]
Calling all LDS Writers

An LDS writer is looking for a collaborator to help finish an LDS-themed
story and script. The potential collaborator must have an interest in
writing stories with a major twist in them like "The Sixth Sense." The story
is 90% complete but the writer would like another opinion and help to give
it that a Hollywood-level polish. Production is likely if the right script
is developed. If interested please email davidtstrong@hotmail.com.

[END]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy (comp 2)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 18:39:23 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post. The previous post on this topic was 
(officially) "comp 1," though that didn't appear in the subject line.]

>From ameliaparkin@hotmail.com Fri Nov 15 17:59:36 2002

from Andrew:

So, if it is just a buisness decision, perhaps more input will sway them 
another way.  Maybe we can put this list to some use beyond just our 
(enjoyable) gabbing.  What do you think of a mass (as much mass as we are) 
petition?  [...] >Who is willing to stand up against encroaching cultural 
blandness? What do you say?


I'd sign such a petition.  If I could sign it a thousand times I would.  The 
policy, as it has been explained in what I have read to date, and its 
possible implications for what Deseret will or will not sell is shameful.

amelia parkin

>From kcmadsen@utah-inter.net Fri Nov 15 18:23:27 2002

Your words captured my reaction exactly, Andrew. Chilled. I'd
sign a petition and more, I'd be happy to circulate it among the
reading women in my bookgroups.

Kim Madsen

>From ThomDuncan@prodigy.net Fri Nov 15 18:38:28 2002

Count me in. 

I've been thinking all afternoon what kinds of books we should expect to
no longer see in DB stores. Surely Pasternak's Dr. Zchivago, a love
story that turns on an act of adultery (ironically, a book that Pres.
Kimball says is a kind of literary achievement that Mormon artists
should strive for -- thanks, J. Scott Bronson, for reminding me of
this).  Or maybe DB will stop selling (and printing) the Bible -- after
all, there's that nasty story of a drunken Lot having sex with his
daughters.  What about Church History, specifically, volume 7 where John
Taylor mentions that he and the others in the jail prior to Joseph's
martyrdom knocked back a couple of brewski's an hour or so before the
mob arrived.  

Thom Duncan

>From rrasband@yahoo.com Fri Nov 15 18:59:02 2002

--- Andrew Hall  wrote:
> Salt Lake Tribune
> Thursday, November 14, 2002
> 

>     The guidelines are based on recent customer surveys that
> said patrons, mostly members of the LDS Church, were upset when
> they found books at the store whose messages clashed with their
> values.
>     "This is completely a business decision. It's not a
> religious decision, it's not a moral decision. It's a customer
> decision," Dew said.

     I guess it depends on what your definition of "moral" is; kind of
like what your definition of "is" is, I guess.  Hypothetically, if white
supremacists were to go to Deseret Book and make "Mein Kampf" a
best-seller there, would DB officials defend selling the book because it
was a "customer decision" that had nothing to do with morals at all.  I'm
sorry, but Ms. Dew's quote is just the worst kind of corporate
weasel-speak.  She's trying to deny responsibility for another
public-relations black-eye for a church-owned company.

     The "Deseret News" article on this dust-up said that *all* of the
back  catalog was being reevaluated, including classics like "The Scarlet
Letter."  That'll teach that Hester Prynne!  Wickedness sure turned out to
be happiness for her, didn't it?  Really, this whole pathetic squabble
fills me with great weariness.  As one semi-famous Mormon said about
another such controvery, "To think that I'm still here in Utah after all
these years, having these same old arguments, when there are so many
exciting things going on in the outside world."  The historian R. Laurence
Moore wrote in his book "Religious Outsiders and the Making of Americans"
that one of the main powers that religious authority has is to *exclude*; 
that's how boundaries are maintained.  But you have to maintain a healthy
balance--you include too much and you get incoherence.  You exclude too
much and you get sterility.  Apparently some want to eliminate all
"worldly influences" in DB and reduce it to the equivalent of an
evangelical Christian bookstore.  I thought all things were spiritual unto
the Lord, and that we were to learn many things out of the best books (not
just those published in Salt Lake City and Provo.)  Why do we want so
badly to imitate the worst sectarian impulses of Protestants?  So we
become more and more restrictive in literature, and "LDS cinema"
exclusively turns out brain-dead "comedies" that offend no one (and
challenge no one.)  Is this really the standard we believe that the Lord
wants us to have--no one anywhere, ever, is to have a disturbing thought?

=====
R.W. Rasband
Heber City, UT
rrasband@yahoo.com

>From parisander@freeport.com Fri Nov 15 21:13:21 2002

I think a petition might be a good idea, but I don't think it would do any
good.  Members of AML and readers of Sunstone, Dialogue and Irreantum are
seen as malcontents, ingrates and apostates, anyway, so what does it hurt to
offend us?
I think this is a business decision that will crush Deseret Book.

CocaCola was number one.  It was the awe of the business world.  There was
no way possible for their nearest competitor to ever do half of Coke's
domestic sales.  But they made an arrogant dicision.  They introduced New
Coke and took the old Coke off the market.  Their arrogance cost them
dearly.  New Coke no longer exists.  CocaCola no longer has a strangle-hold
on the market.

Deseret Book's decision will insult the consumers.  The only reason they are
number one is that we, as Mormons, along with other Mormons have respect for
the Church.  That respect reflects on Deseret Book.  This infantile,
arrogant dicision will cause people to lose respect for Deseret Book.
They;ve already lost mine.  It sounds amaturish--like something BYU would
do.

If a petition is passed around I would be reluctant to sign it.  There is an
outside chance they might pay attention to it.
I say let them hang themselves.  The reason they made this policy change is
that their already losing market share.  They must have gone to the Don
Rickles school of business--insult customers and they will love you.

Paris Anderson

Oh--I would like to suggest they ban the Book of Mormon.  That bit about a
Prophet commiting murder, then continuing as a Prophet it too much.  The
burning of women and children while suggestingGod is powerless to stop it is
repugnant.  That part about the rape, murder and sandwiching of young women
is excessive violence.  I guess the Bible is out too.

>From scottparkin@earthlink.net Fri Nov 15 22:07:36 2002

I just can't stand the irony of Richard Paul Evans becoming the poster child for
the oppression of an expanded concept of Mormon literature. If I had written a
story detailing Evans in that role I would have been denounced as both
delusional and inartistic. Despite the cliche, life remains stranger than
fiction could ever be.

But the question I keep coming back to is this: So what? Why are we so up in
arms over DB's decision to review the titles it carries? We've complained
bitterly about their overly tender sensibilities when selecting fiction to
publish, yet now we act surprised that the much hated editorial policy has
extended to the retail operation as well. It seems to me to be consistent
behavior on DB's part; they have chosen to market themselves as the "safe"
bookstore alternative and have been moving clearly and aggressively toward that
status for quite some time now.

Are we angry because we disagree with the message DB seems to be sending that
suggests Mormons are too tender of spirit to handle "real" literature? Are we
afraid that people will see Mormons as lily-livered and weak because the
Church-owned bookseller has taken a social stance? What difference does it make?
It certainly doesn't change the kind of books that I choose to read--or where I
choose to buy them.

Or are we afraid that the shift in DB's policy is a reflection of the Church
Office Building's new guidelines for determining the worthiness of the Saints,
that it really is an official mouthpiece of the General Authorities? Does this
retail policy decision bode the arrival of a decision point where some of us are
forced to choose the Church or our books? Worse yet, are we afraid that the
decision reflects the truth about the majority of Mormons--that most Mormons
really can't abide even the suggestion of sin in the stories they read, and that
the secret masters of "Mormon culture" have chosen not to force them to expand
their limited vision? Or perhaps that many Mormons will decide that in the
absence of direct instruction on the matter that they're better off to accept
DB's marketing choice as a moral compass for their own reading habits?

I'm not sure why, because we complain about the functional artistic brain-death
of Mormon culture all the time on this list. We've been condemning the average
Mormon reader for the whole six years I've participated on this list; why should
it come as a scandal or surprise when the publisher/retailer that has defined
the sentimental, inoffensive LDS story enacts as policy the very practice we've
already identified as pervasive?

In many ways I have to admire the decision. They've chosen to draw a line that
will bring them a tremendous amount of ridicule and bad publicity from any
national press that chooses to cover the story. Their choice reflects a desire
to do good as they understand it, and to take both the PR hit and the lost
revenue that their decision almost certainly portends. It's a decision founded
on a moral basis, because I don't see how the decision benefits them
economically.

So why do some of us feel threatened by their attempt to act morally? We also
have to make moral decisions about what we choose to write and to read, though
our individual decisions get less press coverage. We also choose the books that
grace our private shelves. The fact that DB chooses to remove books from their
shelves in no way requires me to do the same. If I have doubts about some of my
books, I should remove them myself because I believe they should be removed. If
I think those same books are good and worthwhile, then I should be willing to
defend them if required and should have the fortitude and faith not to worry
about it in the mean time.

While I hate to see yet another artificial line drawn between this group of
Mormons and that group over there, I just can't seem to get my outrage up about
it. If anything it clears up a question I've been struggling with for the last
few weeks. I'm in the process of starting a small press devoted to more
literarily aggressive Mormon fiction; now it appears I no longer need to solve
the problem of how to warn those extra-conservative DB readers that most of my
titles will likely challenge their senses as impolite or earthy or
disturbing--though always founded on hope and faith. It forces me to look for
national distribution and to market to Mormons outside the normal conservative
channels. Yes, it creates an added challenge in getting my titles to the readers
who are most likely to read them, but in meeting that challenge I will be
required to reach outside the Utah regional monopoly and expand the definitions
or "Mormon reader" in ways that DB has been unwilling to. I think that's a good
thing. It will be interesting to see how others respond and whether Seagull
Books joins in.

In the end, nothing much has changed--at least not for me. I only shopped at DB
when I wanted certain kinds of books; I do the rest of my shopping at Barnes and
Noble, Amazon.com, and Half.com, with the occaisional impulse buy at Media Play.

Those who take their morality from Deseret Book have a problem; the rest of us
can note the policy change and continue in our own thoughtful decisions without
upheaval.

Scott Parkin

>From jcobabe@hotmail.com Fri Nov 15 22:29:01 2002

I'd say it is unlikely to make a great impression on Sheri Dew & Co, but it 
would certainly be intriguing to find out who would sign a petition 
complaining about Deseret Book's standard.  Personally I think the policy is 
timely and refreshing to see.  Who will be inconvenienced--we can buy trashy 
lurid romance novels at any drug store.  DB is a specialty house, not a 
smorgasbord.  What a grand idea for DB to be a bit more exclusive than the 
merchants who cater to every appetite, no matter how base.  I also applaud a 
move that might serve to blunt the rationalization of so many authors who 
insist on writing for the lowest common denominator.

It is unusual enough in this day and age to observe any common standard of 
morality and decency.  Depictions of obscenity and illicit sex are so 
common-place in our entertainment venues that it now seems strange to 
object.  Anyone that would be so prudish as to complain about a bit of 
casual profanity--even in a facility which is supposed to be consecrated to 
God--is obviously "anal-retentive".  And a bookstore that aspires to serve 
higher thoughts--why, that's just absurd!

---
Jim Cobabe
jcobabe@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe

>From dmichael@wwno.com Sat Nov 16 01:36:44 2002

>     Still, the themes were too much for new buying guidelines
> that went into effect a few weeks ago, said Sheri Dew, president
> and CEO of Deseret Book. The guidelines tell the store's buyers
> to avoid ordering books that clash with customers' values.

In other words, stop ordering books that make people think.


>     Though the process has just begun, store employees will
> eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores'
> inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new
> standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or Jane
> Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under consideration.

I thought this phenomenon was limited to libraries in the Bible Belt.
Boy, was I wrong. This article could have appeared word-for-word in the
Sugar Beet, and I'd have believed it was satire.


>     The guidelines are based on recent customer surveys that
> said patrons, mostly members of the LDS Church, were upset when
> they found books at the store whose messages clashed with their
> values.
>     "This is completely a business decision. It's not a
> religious decision, it's not a moral decision. It's a customer
> decision," Dew said.

It's an asinine decision. I have heard good things about Sheri Dew in
the past, and had hoped that those good things would translate into some
policy changes at Deseret Book when she took the reigns. This is a huge
step backward for Deseret Book, a huge embarrassment for the church, and
voids all positive impressions I had of her.

And it's one more straw on the back that makes me despise LDS culture.

Don't tell me my reaction is extreme. Deseret Book has banned RICHARD
PAUL EVANS for heaven's sake!

D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 16 Nov 2002 02:00:01 -0700

Justin Halverson wrote:

> You writers
> out there let me know--is there a significant risk that elements with a
> high action quotient will displace the more subtle yet certainly equally
> (if not more) significant elements in the text?

It almost sounds like you're saying the BoM film has to be scripture,
for fear people will use it as their source of knowledge of the BoM
rather than reading the book itself. I know you're not really trying to
say that, but it seems to be the implication of what you're saying.

I say, anyone so foolish as to replace scripture study with film-viewing
deserves the pathetic scriptural scholarship they will have earned, and
the filmmaker holds no responsibility for the results.


> (Is making this distinction
> even possible? Is there anything universally "less significant" in the Book
> of Mormon?)

Lots of the BoM is less significant than other parts. I think the
amazing doctrinal sermons in Nephi's books are orders of magnitude more
valuable than the blow-by-blow accounts of General Moroni's slaughtering
of Lamanites that Mormon seemed enamored of (enough to name his son
after the guy).

But of course, that supports your position: the "lesser" scenes will be
in the movie rather than the doctrinal jewels. Yet I say, that's the way
it should be. For doctrine, people had better be going to the source
material. The film is for entertainment, telling us the stories that we
have come to love in an exciting new way.

And remember, the Harry Potter articles that you have presented as
evidence for your position also say that many children took up reading
for the first time after seeing the movie. Do you think this won't
happen with cool Book of Mormon films? Surely a trade-off with a net
benefit.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] New "Other Side of Heaven" Book
Date: 16 Nov 2002 03:21:23 -0600

[Excel Entertainment press release:]


New Book Celebrates
The Making of The Other Side of Heaven 

The Other Side of Heaven would like to announce an exciting new book 
meant for anyone who enjoyed the movie. The book, from Vantage Point 
Press, is entitled Journey of Faith: The Making of The Other Side of 
Heaven. This unique and visually rich volume goes beyond the typical 
making-of book to share a deeper, more personal view of the filmmaking 
process as described in the words of the filmmakers, themselves.



Experience the exciting and tender moments of life on the set with page 
after page of behind-the-scenes photos of the cast and crew and colorful 
images of the exotic island locations. Take your own spiritual journey 
as you enjoy actual excerpts from John Groberg's own letters and mission 
journal.



Anyone who loved The Other Side of Heaven will want their own copy of 
Journey of Faith today! Now available in LDS bookstores everywhere!

For more information, visit www.journeyoffaithbook.com. 
Save 10% when you buy the book online at clicktobuyonline.com.
You're receiving this message as a member of the Excel Entertainment 
Film list, to which you're subscribed as pdhunter@wtd.net. To be removed 
from this list, or to subscribe to other great lists like this one, 
please follow the instructions on the following page: 
www.xelent.com/scripts/subscribe.phtml?email=pdhunter@wtd.net 




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jacob Proffitt" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 16 Nov 2002 12:15:26 -0700

Well Linda, obviously you feel attacked and I apologize.  I certainly
never meant to attack you or invalidate your personal experiences.  I
don't doubt the obvious trauma you and your family have experienced in
Utah.  My only intention was to point out that your experience isn't as
universal as you had depicted and that there are alternate explanations
for some of what you had seen.  I don't want to imply that "all is well
in Zion" or that we don't need any changes.  We can all improve, and
it's usually a good idea to identify our short-comings.  At the same
time, it isn't a bad thing to identify improvements already made and
point out where things aren't as universal as they seem at first glance.

Jacob Proffitt






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Women in DeVore BofM Movie
Date: 16 Nov 2002 13:49:08 -0700

At 01:50 PM 11/13/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The website has an artist's rendition of a heavily cloaked woman with
>her face exposed, one of several portraits floating in space around a topless
>beefcake with rippling pecs and washboard abs.  Hunkaliscious!
>
>My gay friends (and Barbara Hume) are rubbing their hands together in
>anticipation.

Quick! What's the URL?

barbara hume, who appreciates the aesthetic qualities of eternal design work







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] Kirby on Evans/DB (SL Tribune)
Date: 18 Nov 2002 03:03:51 +0000

KIRBY: Is Bible Next on Banned Books List?
Saturday, November 16, 2002

BY ROBERT KIRBY
Salt Lake Tribune Columnist

    Deseret Book recently announced new moral guidelines for
books the LDS Church-owned chain will carry. Ironically, among
those works failing the new moral muster is The Last Promise,
the latest heart tug by best-selling Mormon author Richard Paul
Evans.
    The Last Promise allegedly (I haven't read it) contains
scenes wherein a married woman submits to hugs from a man not
her husband without being immediately disfellowshipped.
    You would expect Deseret Book to yank my books. Heck, one
of them even has the word "hell" in the title. Meanwhile, my
novel Dark Angel contains scenes of nudity and the words
"shucks" and "darn."
    But Richard Evans? Come on, how much more Mormon can you
get than Richard?
    Well, apparently a lot. Deseret Book says a survey of its
customers revealed that many are churchgoers awaiting
transfiguration even as they shop, and who do not like to
encounter bad stuff on the shelves.
    Fortunately, the new guidelines put Richard and me in
lofty company. Some truly great authors may also get the
toss, including Shakespeare, Steinbeck and Bronte.
    Still, I cannot point out just how weenie Deseret Book is
without confessing my own sins against Richard. I am also guilty
of interfering with his access to the marketplace.
    Several years ago, while signing our own books at Media Play,
Pat Bagley and I were seated at a table next to a stack of
Richard's enormously popular book The Christmas Box.
    What transpired next is not something of which I am proud --
though admittedly I still find it humorous -- and I hasten to
add that it was done out of sheer boredom rather than envy or
malice.
    During lulls in the crowd, I would surreptitiously pull
copies of The Christmas Box from the stack and place an
"autographed copy" sticker on the dust jacket. Then on the
inside cover I wrote, "Bah! Humbug!" and signed it "Richard
Paul Evans."
    I only did it maybe three or four times. However, I would
like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Richard, although I 
bet he laughs when he reads this even as he reaches
for the phone to call his lawyer.
    Now that we have that out in the open it is time to take a
page from Jimmy "Lusting in my Heart" Carter's book and wave the
olive branch.
    Here is what I propose: I promise not to help Richard with his
book signings any more if Deseret Book will back its corset off a
notch or two and display his book.
    For his part, Richard might agree in future printings of The
Last Promise to add a chapter wherein the hugging harlot gets
hacked to pieces by an angel with a flaming sword, or possibly
just whipped by some Danites.
    Until we can work out the details, I think Richard and I
should continue portraying life the way we envision it,
including the odd bout of cursing and/or extramarital hugging.
    Meanwhile, Deseret Book should continue to dump books that
contain scenes depicting murder, incest, genocide, lying,
adultery, robbery, anarchy, assaults, cannibalism and child
abuse.
    OK, maybe not the Bible and the Book of Mormon. But
everything else.

Copyright 2002, The Salt Lake Tribune

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Slaven 
Subject: [AML] Re: New Hymns
Date: 15 Nov 2002 21:11:47 -0800

> The late Clint Larsen was adament on the need for new hymns--and would, I'm
> sure, have written a whole hymnbook himself if he had been given permission.
> For most of us, the green hymnbook is still relatively new and does have
some
> nice additions from the blue one many of us grew up with and used for our
> tabernacle rubbings in crayon.  The "new" book left out (as I've heard that
> Michael Moody readily admits) a hymn that never should've been nixed: "Come
> Thou Fount."  It also doesn't include (as Moody has purportedly said it
> should've) "Amazing Grace."

I need to go through the old book again.  I only joined in 1981, so I hardly
had time to get to know it before the new green one came out.

> Of course, I would really like some good
> traditional spirituals in the hymnbook (and permission to SING THEM.  When I
> was music chair, I was told we could have no sacrament meeting solos that
> sounded like Negro Spirituals--which is a really stupid rule.).

Oh, so it's not just my old singles branch president.  I was assistant choir
director, I was helping put a Christmas program together, and I'd found this
great arrangement for five male voices (four parts and a soloist) of 'Mary had
a baby'.  And our branch president nixed it!  I was so bummed!

(For those who don't know it: "Mary had a baby, yes, Lord, Mary had a baby,
yes dear Lord, Mary had a baby, yes, Lord, the people keep-a comin' and the
train done gone.")

> I'd like some non-European songs.

Hear hear!  Not that I know any that leap to mind, but surely there's some
good stuff out there from some of our African and Asian brothers and sisters.

> I'd like to import more hymns, like "Blessed Assurance"
> and "Precious Lord".  (I sang "Blessed Assurance" in Genesis once as a solo
> and Pres. Gray received a complaint that Genesis was going Baptist.  I
haven't
> sung a solo since.)  I'd like some songs that you'd WANT to clap to, even if
> you were urged not to--songs like "This Little Light of Mine", "He's Got the
> Whole World in his Hands", "O Happy Day" and "Amen!"   I definitely think
the
> Spanish hymn sung every Christmas in Mexico which searches for the holy baby
> should be in the hymnbook, and I would like "Moscow Lights" to be given
gospel
> lyrics.  And I want Mormons to learn how to sing like the gospel was
exciting
> and maybe even joyful.

Don't have the exact quote, but didn't Gladys Knight say at a fireside or
something (where the prophet was at least in attendance, if not actually
speaking himself) how much she loved the gospel and the church, "but man, do
we ever have to work on our music!"?

Praying for Sister Knight to be called and sustained as General Church Music
Buttkicker....

Robert (still chafing at the 'no brass instruments'
rule...grumblegrumblegrumble)
**********************************************************************
Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven                         www.robertslaven.ca
...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too
'Man is that he might have joy--not guilt trips.'  (Russell M. Nelson)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BroHam000@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 16 Nov 2002 14:04:36 EST


Paris Anderson wrote:
I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because there
never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic.  That's hard
for me to understand, because I know the Church is true and it is the
Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers in
the Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's what
experience teaches me.


To me the answer is kind of in the question...there IS nowhere else to go. =
=20
"All truth...one great whole", right?  Brigham Young said "The Latter-day=20
Saints realize that there is no period of man's existence not incoporated=20
with the plan of salvation, and directly pointing to a future existence. =20
Consequently, when we stand here to speak to the people, let every man speak=
=20
what is in his heart.  If one of our Elders is capable of giving us a=
 lecture=20
upon any of the sciences, let it be delivered in the spirit of meekness --=
 in=20
the spirit of the holy Gospel.  If, on the Sabbath day, when we are=
 assembled=20
here to worship the Lord, one of the Elders should be prompted to give us a=
=20
lecture on any branch of education with which he is acquainted, is it=
 outside=20
the pale of our religion?  I think not.  ...It matters not what the subject=
=20
be, if it tends to improve the mind, exalt the feelings, and enlarge the=20
capacity.  The truth that is in all the arts and sciences forms a part of=
 our=20
religion.  Faith is no more a part of it than any other true principle of=20
philosophy. ...Were I to lecture on...principles of any kind, our religion=
=20
embraces it; and what it does not circumscribe, it would be well for us to=
=20
dispense with...(Discourses of Brigham Young, pp. 331-32)".  Also, ""Our=20
doctrine and practice is, and I have made it mine through life -- to receive=
=20
truth no matter where it comes from. (p. 11)"
In other words, if you prayed and were led to results through Tai Chi and=20
other disciplines, and the spirit of truth was present in those results,=20
those things are just as much a part of the Gospel, the Church, and the=20
Kingdom of God, as any other.  Go for it.

Linda Hyde


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jacob Proffitt" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 16 Nov 2002 12:46:19 -0700

---Original Message From: Paris Anderson
>
> I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year,
> because there never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results
> are dramatic.  That's hard for me to understand, because I
> know the Church is true and it is the Kingdom of God.  So
> what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers in the
> Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's
> what experience teaches me.

Kind of.  The church doesn't endorse any specific regimens, spiritual or
physical.  Think about it--even spiritually they don't go beyond saying
"read your scriptures daily" and "pray always".  Well, *how* should we
study scriptures?  What should we pray about?  Physically, they tell us
our bodies are temples and that we should take care of them.  Well, care
for them how?  How often should I exercise and what exercises should I
use?  Very broad guidelines.  I'm pretty sure that this is a deliberate
choice.  After all, the point is that each member be personally engaged
in their salvation (physical or spiritual) and definitive statements or
programs would make our decisions rote--and discourage actual
understanding.  Our purpose here isn't to live as blind automatons.  Our
purpose is to learn those things that have eternal importance--and to
adapt ourselves to make those lessons viable.  We aren't given answers
on a platter--we're given answers after looking hard and learning not
only a lot of information but how to develop criteria and qualifications
for our answers.

This is how Gnostics go so wrong--it isn't *just* stuff we have to know.
We have to find reasons and figure our causality and delve into complex
interactions and counter-indications.  And *then* we have to implement
what we've learned in our own lives in all its complexities (which is
the toughest part for me, frankly--I always know more than I do).  It's
tough.  The gospel just isn't for wimps or people looking for easy
answers to all of life's tough questions.  The answers are *there*,
mind.  They're just not easy.

Jacob Proffitt






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 16 Nov 2002 14:10:01 -0700

At 10:46 AM 11/14/02 -0700, you wrote:
>I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because there
>never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic.  That's hard
>for me to understand, because I know the Church is true and it is the
>Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers in
>the Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's what
>experience teaches me.

Those things that are good and true are part of the Gospel, even if not 
part of the church structure. God gave you a brain and body, with which you 
have been discovering concepts of value to you. That takes away nothing 
from the Church.

I have had results because of the Church -- for example, I have had 
emotional and physical healings that would not have happened for me before 
I found the Church, because I didn't know how to establish that two-way 
contact with our Father in Heaven. But I've also found much that has given 
me peace from sources not obviously connected with the Church. God gave me 
a son, whom I raised by myself, and he is now a physical therapist who 
helped me recently when I blew out my knee. That sounds as though it could 
have happened anyway --- my son is naturally geared toward helping people 
-- but without the Church I might not have been able to bring him up as I did.

When I first investigated the Church, I loved the fact that they were 
accepting of all the gifts available to people, whether or not they come 
through the formal structure of the LDS establishment.

barbara hume







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Barbara Hume 
Subject: Re: [AML] Reading Copies
Date: 16 Nov 2002 16:17:09 -0700


>The "not for resale" is there to prevent bookstores or dealers from 
>selling the advanced reading copy as if it were a published copy of the 
>book. ARCs are frequently printed before the final copy edit, and are 
>almost never printed or bound as well as the published book.

Thanks for the clarification. I receive many ARCs because I write reviews 
for several Web sites; most of them are simply printed sheets held together 
by a binder clip, but some are in a nicely bound form (although, as you 
say, often with errors not yet corrected). If I like the book well enough 
to keep it, it's nice having it in a form that fits well on the bookshelf.

barbara hume






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] UDALL, _The Forgotten Founders_
Date: 18 Nov 2002 03:12:08 +0000

(Below is a featuer on Udall, then a book review)

Deseret News
Sunday, November 17, 2002

Stewart Udall: troubled optimist
By Dennis Lythgoe
Deseret News book editor

      Former government officials do not ordinarily write books,
unless it is in the category of autobiography. But Stewart Udall,
former member of Congress and U.S. secretary of the Interior
under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson, figures
he doesn't have to do "an ego trip" like that. He says a full-
fledged Udall biography that will tell his story "warts and all"
is already being written by Ross Peterson, Utah State University
history professor.
      So Udall has instead written about "The Forgotten
Founders" of the Old West, both a historical and personal look at
what he regards as the important people of westward settlement -
the Indians, missionaries, pioneers and farmers who did the actual
work of settlement. It was not the gunslingers like Wild Bill
Hickok and Billy the Kid, though Hollywood has anointed them for
stardom. And it is certainly not the miners who blasted away
entire mountains and permanently scarred the landscape.
      Udall has already written four other books, the most
important being "The Quiet Crisis," written in 1963 during his
service in the Kennedy administration, and "The Myths of August"
(1994), about the Cold War and the tragedy of bomb testing that
led to the health plight of downwinders. The first has been
judged by environmentalists as a major engine to the
environmental movement of that era (although the most important
book about ecology, says Udall, was written the previous year by
Rachel Carson, "The Silent Spring").
      During a spirited interview in the offices of the Deseret
News, Udall, who now lives in Santa Fe, called Carson's book
"the fountainhead of the ecological movement. She said we have
to look at the whole planet =97 the entire system. Because it was
an international best-seller and translated into 18 languages, it
is still read today as a bible of conservation, built on the
foundation started by Teddy Roosevelt."
      Udall believes he was able to capitalize on Carson's
excellent "kick-off" by writing his own book and promoting the
environment through presidents who were friendly to his policies. "There is=
=20
a cycle in American politics. In the '60s
and '70s, through Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Carter, we were
able to establish new values. The last 20 years represent a
different period with arguments and divisions we didn't have
before."
      Udall remembers that when he went into President Kennedy's
Cabinet, "most of the rivers in this country were sewers, very
badly polluted. We developed policy for the rivers with the
federal government putting up half the money. Utah today remains
a battleground for land-use policies."
      "I was startled when Gov. Leavitt came out recently for a
national park in the San Rafael Swell. I've been waiting for this
to happen, and I think it suggests subtle changes in Utah. After
all, it was an Idaho U.S. senator, Frank Church, who led the floor
fight for the Wilderness Bill. I call myself a troubled optimist
who expects a new consensus on environmental values in the next
few years." (Udall's greatest contributions were "The Wild and
Scenic Rivers Act" and "The Land and Water Conservation Fund.")
      Udall is still working on the downwind controversy, trying
to get compensation for Navajo Indians who were exposed to
radiation from uranium mining. "I'm trying to finish up by next
summer. How many lawyers are actively practicing law at 82? Not
very many. It gives me satisfaction to help people."
      The new book on westward settlement he regards as his last
book, because he is suffering from macular degeneration and can't
do major research any more. "I'm in the category now where I can
pretend to be an elder statesman. This book comes out of my
reflections about my own life. I was fortunate that my life has
a larger span than my actual years. In a way, I felt like I'd
grown up on the frontier."
      So, has Udall the politician and advocate become a
historian in his later years? "I'm not a trained historian, but
I've taken the advice of many of my historian friends, such as
Leonard Arrington, Nancy Limerick, Richard White and Ross
Peterson.
      "Another of my great friends was Wallace Stegner (the now
deceased Utah-bred novelist and historian who advocated
environmentalism). I'm trying to correct the record. That's
audacious, I suppose. But I felt that when I looked at the Gold
Rush, the settlers and the role of religion in the Old West,
they deserved to be treated separately. The gunslingers and the
miners came later, yet they've been lumped together and glorified
by Hollywood."
      Udall calls his focus "the wagon people, who put a few
tools and some belongings in wagons and took their wives and
children 1,000 miles or more. That's heroic. " So to personalize
the book, Udall used some of the stories of his own ancestors,
including Jacob Hamblin and John D. Lee.
      He also took the legendary Bernard DeVoto, who grew up
in Ogden "to the woodshed" for emphasizing fur trappers over
religious settlers. "He was a brilliant writer who won a
Pulitzer Prize, but his writing was not history."
      Udall feels strongly that his own Mormon roots are among
the most important, so he gives them proper credit, even though
he is not himself "a church-going Mormon." "I lived in a Mormon
village for 18 years (the small northeastern Arizona hamlet of
St. Johns), and my views of land and resources come from my
Mormon upbringing.
      "I like the story about Henry David Thoreau, who, when he
was on his death bed, his family sent for a minister. The
minister said, 'Henry, have you made your peace with God?'
Thoreau said, 'I didn't know we'd quarreled.'
      "That answers the question for me, too."


'Founders' honors forgotten pioneers
By Dennis Lythgoe
Deseret News book editor

THE FORGOTTEN FOUNDERS: RETHINKING THE HISTORY OF THE OLD
WEST, by Stewart L. Udall, Island Press, 237 pages, $25.

       With "The Forgotten Founders," former U.S. Interior
Secretary Stewart Udall has written a revisionist history of the
Old West.
      Although his training is in the law and the majority of
his experience is in government, Udall has written a very
interesting book that slams the prominence of fur traders,
miners and gunslingers while applying a pat on the back to the
Indians, missionaries, pioneers and farmers who represent "the
bedrock of settlement."
      He has not hesitated to place into the mix some of his own
ancestors, including John D. Lee, infamous for his role in the
Mountain Meadows Massacre, as examples of those who sacrificed
and built up the American West. This is history with a personal
touch, but it reads very well.
      Perhaps it has something to do with Udall's longtime
association with such professional historians as Alvin Josephy
and Ross Peterson. Or maybe he could have lived another life as
a scholar.
      Udall's major focus is what he considers the underrated
role of religion in the settlement process, with an asterisk by
the Mormons. Since Udall is a Mormon himself and served an LDS
mission as a young man, this can easily be seen as one of his
more pronounced biases. Yet Udall has spent most of his life as
a non-practicing Mormon, so his praise of the Mormon pioneers
takes on even more relevance: "As creators of new communities,
energetic Mormons excelled on several counts. The reach of the
96 settlements they initiated in their first decade in the Salt
Lake Valley is astounding."
      He also believes that Franciscan friars and Protestant
and Catholic pioneers have not been given their due for helping
to carve out Western society. He classifies their goals in a
series of counter-phrases =97 "amity not conquest; stability not
strife; conservation not waste; restraint not aggression."
      Udall's purpose, then, is to blow away the so-called
"myths" that bother him about how Western history has so often
been told. He is far from the first to write such a revisionist
interpretation, however, and he will likely get some robust
critiques from Western scholars who have focused their research
on trapping, mining and outlaws. But his view is well-expressed
and logical in presentation.
      It is also feisty, especially when he takes on one of the
most legendary writers and historians of the West, Pulitzer
Prize-winning Bernard DeVoto, author of a frontier trilogy - "The
Year of Decision," "Across the Wide Missouri" and "The Course
of Empire" =97 and winner of numerous prizes for his writing.
      Udall does not consider DeVoto a historian at all and
criticizes him because he began his career as a novelist who
wrote under the pseudonym "John August." "His bravura debut as
a historian can be attributed to his masterful writing and to
his ability to transform raw materials of history into exciting
folk dramas.
      "DeVoto believed that 'history was surcharged with
romanticism,' a conviction that unfortunately led him to ignore
ordinary settlers in his accounts and build his stories around
scenes and characters he deemed more colorful."
      Udall is less convincing when he takes on the powerful
DeVoto legacy than when he touts the triumphs of the settlement
process - but if DeVoto were here, he would undoubtedly give as
well as he received.

Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tracie Laulusa" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 17 Nov 2002 22:38:44 -0500

I'm with you Margaret.

Blessed Assurance is one of my favorites.  We did a choir arrangement
(purchased from Jackman) and didn't receive one complaint.

I heard George Dyer sing Come Thou Font of Every Blessing recently.
Truly lovely.

I have wondered why the early church declined to use hymns from other
religions.  Could it possibly be that because there was such religious
fervor at the time that it would have caused some real contention
among those who had converted from other sects, as most everyone did?
I don't know.  But if that was the case, it shouldn't apply
now--almost two hundred years later.  Surely we can listen to the
music of other faiths and rejoice in that which is wonderful.

Tracie Laulusa


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kathy Fowkes" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:11:41 -0700

[MOD: I've split this post, which deals with two separate topics.]

> As for climate, I like the desert. If I had *my* druthers I'd live in
> Arizona. But I feel just as trapped in Missouri, climate-wise. Plus there
> are no mountains here. It was wonderful just to SEE mountains again--if
> only for three days. Refreshing. But the people here in Missouri are truly
> wonderful too.


Wanna trade places? You can have my house, and I'll take yours! ;-)  I fell
so in love with Missouri, and so did my husband. I showed pictures of the
Ozarks to my kids (which is not where you live, I know!) and they are now
hoping to move to the show me state too someday.


> > >And that *doesn't* *happen*.  Not in my ward, or in my area.
>
> No, I do *know* it's happened, from personal reports. There is probably
> good reason President Hinckley has addressed this type of inclusive
> behavior in recent conference sessions. If the people are repenting, then
> that is excellent news. I'm glad to hear it.

It has happened right here in River City -- that is, Pheonix, Arizona, and I
wish I hadn't had MY blinders on and had done the same thing!  On my old
street in Phoenix there was this wonderful family living next door. Happened
to be the Bishop and his family. They had a policy that their children could
not play at a couple of houses in the neighborhood. My children, because of
my prideful, more liberal view that everyone is a child of God and deserves
the benefit of the doubt, and they're just kids, etc. etc., have paid the
price. The one thing I had hoped to prevent my children from suffering I was
not able to prevent due to my pigheadedness -- at least one of my children
was molested and exposed to some of the viler types of pornography at this
one house, and we are still suffering fallout from it 12 years later.

There was another family that was very anti, and I finally had to no longer
allow my daughter to play over there because the little girl my daughter's
age, all of 4 years old, was constantly proclaiming her superiority over my
daughter, the BofM wasn't true, we were all going to hell if we didn't leave
the Mormon church, etc etc etc.  She also did a lot of hitting, which her
parents never disciplined her for, and a lot of "If you don't do what I say,
I won't play with you anymore" type manipulations. I so resent the way she
treated my daughter that I actually have cut her out of any pictures we took
from that time period. I just don't want to be reminded of what a lousy
parent I was that year.

Of course, I don't even begin to believe that only members houses are safe
for my children! Not with what I know about certain brethren and the reasons
for their excommunication.  I think it is a mother's and father's perogative
to decide through observation, prayer, inspiration and "instinct" or "gut
feelings" (which may or may not be the same thing as promptings and
impressions of the Spirit) if it is okay for their child to play at another
child's house, member or not.  I know no one's discounting that. But there
at times reasons to make up excuses like "I don't let me children play at
this family's house because they don't live the same values we do" or
whatever works, suffer the stigma of being provincial and insular, and
protect one's children. Having gone through this dilemma, and made the wrong
decision, I prefer giving families the benefit of the doubt if they've made
this kind of rule for their children, no matter how they define the rule to
the neighborhood.

Kathy Fowkes





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kathy Fowkes" 
Subject: [AML] New Essays Web Site
Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:11:41 -0700

[MOD: This is the second part of a post I split.]

On this note, to make a literary tie-in, I'm contemplating putting together
a new website on which I'd like to publish essays (no poetry! Except maybe
Linda's) that are more or less centered around the theme of how the light
and love of Jesus Christ and the power of the at-one-ment he rendered on our
behalf helped us through our own personal Gethsemanes. I want people, both
men and women, to be able to explore the most painful struggles, the reality
of our lives, the things often mentioned here that seem to be avoided by LDS
publishers, but also to include the truth and power of God's ability to
provide us with the strength, courage, faith, stamina, and love to endure,
to muddle through, and even to overcome and triumph. If there's interest at
all, I'd like to include both fiction and non-fiction.

Would anyone be interested in contributing? Is there already a website like
this? I intend to buy a domain name to make it easy, and enlist the help of
my husband to make the design pleasing and navigable.

What would be the drawbacks? Any comments, pro or con to the idea? I've been
mulling this over for a while, and would really like some feedback from
everyone here. Thanks.


Kathy Fowkes





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Isaac C Walters 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:34:48 -0500

Paris Andeson wrote:

I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because
there never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic. 
That's hard for me to understand, because I know the Church is true
and it is the Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you
might find answers in the Church, but if you need results--go
somewhere else?  That's what experience teaches me.


Allow me to introduce myself a little before responding to this
interesting issue.

My name is Isaac Walters.  I'm a theatre director.  I currently
teaching directing and acting at Indiana University South Bend.  While
teaching as an adjunct at UVSC I started Mountain Top Theatre Company,
a theatre company dedicated to created a way of doing theatre based on
an understanding of the gospel.

So in response to the questions posed above about the difference
between the gospel and the experience's with Ch'i Gung--It seems to me
that there is a gap between what we preach in the church and our
practice.  Brigham Young said that the reason we were given bodies was
to over come sin.  He said that we needed to repent in this life
rather than in the spirit world because it is easier to do it here
than there.  The reason he gave was that we have bodies here and don't
in the spirit world.  

We learn in the Doctrine and Covenants that the body and the spirit
together make up the soul, with the implication that when you deal
with one you deal with the other.  Elder Holland's talk "On Souls,
Symbols, and Sacraments" makes this point and says that is the reason
sexual transgression is so serious.  We are also told that every law
the Lord has given us is spiritual.  That would seem to say that there
is no distinction between the physical and the spiritual for the Lord.

I was in a workshop once with Yoshi Oida, a traditionally trained
Japanese actor who is currently an internationally renowned
experimental actor, when he asked "Why do we do body work?"  We all
looked at each other blankly and then he told us, "Because the body,
the mind, and the emotions (and I would add the spirit) are all
connected.  Of those three the easiest one to control is the body."

I think that we as a church have yet to make this connection.  We're
aware of it when it comes to sins of commission like breaking the Word
of Wisdom or sexual sin, but have yet to make the jump into
recognizing that physicality can also be something that can be used
for spiritual progression.  

Specifically how that should happen in the church, I don't know yet. 
But it is something that I want to find out more about.

Isaac Walters

Resist what resists in you, become yourself.
--The Mahabarata




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 18 Nov 2002 09:44:41 -0700

Thanks to Justin for his musings on this valuable subject.  I'd simply add =
this: the Book of Mormon is not primarily a book that tells a story.   =
It's doctrinal.  The stories exist to illustrate specific doctrinal =
messages, and those messages are the heart of what the book is about.  =
There is a dandy narrative in 1 Nephi, and it's followed by a sermon in 2 =
Nephi.  1 Nephi is cinematic and 2 Nephi, not so much.  But that sermon is =
more important than the story, and the dreaded Isaiah passages in 2 Nephi =
(which bog everyone down sometime around Jan 20 every year, about the time =
that exercise bike gets moved back to the garage) are in fact the evidence =
which lead us to those stunning conclusionary chapters, 2 Nephi 25-33.  =
Miss that, and focus on the Nephi narrative, and you've missed something =
absolutely fundamental about the text. =20

So, in making a film about the Book of Mormon, showing bronzed actors in =
faux Middle Eastern costumes building a boat and sailing it eastward to =
the Americas might make for some nifty visuals.  But that approach would =
similutaneously reduce the story to, well, just a story.  The Cecil B. =
DeMille approach, which would be to interlace that story with some idiotic =
love story in which Our Hero emotes away at some actress wearing four inch =
false eyelashes, would be to turn the Book of Mormon into high camp.  Both =
these approaches miss the boat.  As would the real dingbat solution, which =
would be to have some guy in a fake beard drone away at us for hours at a =
time. =20

Why not take some more imaginative approach?  Take the Book of Mormon =
seriously, for a change, as a doctrinal book.  Assume it exists essentially=
 for our day.  I made a tiny effort in this direction with Gadianton. I =
wouldn't mind a Book of Mormon movie that went straight where the book =
goes, to doctrines and ideas.  Cheesifying the action sequences we can =
trust the Living Scriptures folks to take care of.

Eric Samuelsen







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Tooting My Musical Horn
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:31:57 -0800

Way to go Ivan! I went to links and had a listen. Just beautiful.
I'm definitely getting the"Come to Bethlehem" collection. I'm
still mulling over the "Timeless Christmas" though, since I had
to find it on the Deseret Book link and they are on my bad list
right now. If I run into it at Seagull or something, I'll
probably get it--but NOT from DB.

[MOD: I've cut the rest of this and put it in the compilation post on the 
New DB policy thread.]

[Kim Madsen]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: Re: [AML] Tooting My Musical Horn
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:37:17 -0700

I wanted to toot my cousin's horn as an addendum to Ivan's post.  Geoff Groberg, who
is one of the musicians on "A Timeless Christmas", which includes Ivan's guitar work
(and YES, I will be buying this CD for Christmas) is amazing.  He and his band
played for my dad's seventieth birthday.  The music is just great.  Now for the
literary tie-in--well, Geoff's wife, Jen, was the first "Eliza Lyman" in the debut
of _I Am Jane_.  And Geoff's and my cousin, Lee Groberg, is doing documentaries all
over the place--the latest about Nauvoo.  And Geoff's and my uncle John Groberg has
now reached celebrity status, and is the only GA who is also a movie star.
Therefore, I'm thinking I'll add "Groberg" to my name so I can sell more books.  If
I hyphenate my mother's maiden name with "Blair" I become Margaret Groberg-Blair
Young.  I think sales will soar after I get Deseret Book to make that little change.

[Margaret Young]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gideon Burton 
Subject: RE: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 18 Nov 2002 11:36:41 -0700

Reading about what Margaret does in her creative writing class just
makes me want to take it! A great writing exercise, too, to rewrite and
change POV. 

I think one way to handle this sort of thing is take head on some of the
problems of creative writing and literary studies for Mormons right at
the outset. I don't mean just warning people about offensive content,
but discussing why we Mormons tend to be both justifiably and
unjustifiably cautious about art in general. If they are interested in
writing or reading that only reflects our idealism or LDS public
relations, then they aren't really interested in art at all. But if they
want literature to engage themselves and others in what can be moving,
transformative vicarious experience, then there will be risks to our
minds and spirits. There will be sifting required. There will be
mistakes.  But looking for bland illustrations of gospel principles, or
being satisfied with portrayals that fit conventional LDS mores, may in
fact be more disloyal to the gospel than anything else. All growth
requires pain, and this involves facing up to our own (and our people's)
imperfections. Margaret's (and Darius') writing about the treatment of
African-American LDS has been exemplary in this regard.

As for the worry over objective truth, one way to handle this is to go
to D&C 93:24 and point out that it says truth is *knowledge* of things
as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come. This should give
new respect to literature as a truth-revealing medium, since it aids us
in becoming conscious of the relativity of knowledge about truth
(especially via point of view). The D&C also talks about God speaking to
us according to our language, which suggests that God respects the
essentially rhetorical nature of communication and knowledge. We see
through a glass darkly, said Paul, and literature grinds us lenses to
better peer through the dimness, the inevitable partiality of our own
language and knowledge.

I often face the problem of a self-righteous student in my LDS Lit
class, and the way I try to handle it is that they are not taking their
own religion seriously enough if they are trafficking in appearances or
pharisaic measures of propriety (I don't put it quite so barely).
Spencer W. Kimball told us that artists must plumb the depths as well as
the heights. B. H. Roberts, speaking of joy, said that it is "to arise
out of man's rough and thorough knowledge of evil, of sin; through
knowing misery, sorrow, pain and suffering; through seeing good and evil
locked in awful conflict; through a consciousness of having chosen in
that conflict the better part, the good; ... It will arise from a
consciousness of moral, spiritual and physical strength. Of strength
gained in conflict. The strength that comes from experience; from having
sounded the depths of the soul; from experiencing all emotions of which
mind is susceptible; from testing all the qualities and strength of the
intellect." (New Witnesses for God, Vol.3, Ch.40, p.201). If that
doesn't sound like what literature has a chance to offer students, I
don't know what does. But it takes some doing to convince LDS students
of how seriously its leaders have taken the powers of literature. Orson
Whitney is great in this regard. Though he spoke of the missionary
powers of great LDS writing (We will yet have Miltons and Shakesepares
of our own...) he also spoke of literature as a means of education, of
engaging the world, not just converting it. And if you think about it,
Milton and Shakespeare are not conservatives at all. Their significance
lies in the depth and breadth of their engagement of things both human
and divine, and that has proven a vivacious, messy, uncorrelated affair
that we should all be very grateful for.

Well, there will always be those that only want books or movies that
reiterate the status quo, or that reflect and confirm beliefs. The
Latter-day Saints who feel that way do not yet understand the radically
powerful nature of these art forms or of their own theology. We should
try to introduce them charitably to both, but we should also not allow
them to dodge responsible engagement of the issues by taking refuge in
surface issues. Jesus didn't, and wouldn't.


Gideon
\

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Interview with Jaanus Silla
Date: 17 Nov 2002 22:09:54 -0600

An interview with Estonian Latter-day Saint filmmaker Jaanus Silla


LDSFilm.com: I don't wish to embarrass the man, because to me Jaanus Silla
seems very humble. In all my interactions with him, he has never brought up
his own history-making past. Not only did he literally live through and tak=
e
part in the revolution that freed Estonia from Communist rule, he also
became the 5th convert baptized in his country, and the first full-time
missionary from the Soviet Union to serve abroad. But I only learned about
these things after doing research... Silla is very forward-looking and isn'=
t
interested in resting on his laurels. He talks about his filmmaking and his
goals for the future.


Q. What first brought you to the United States? 

Silla: I was invited to serve a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints. Later I ended up living in the U.S. for 9 years. 


Q. "Mr. Calliphor" was a short film you wrote and directed which won 1st
place at the 1996 Boise Film Festival. What was it about? 

Silla: It was about a buzzing fly that was trying to make it into the light=
,
but its negativity and criticism toward others trapped it in a room. It was
really a fun film to make and learn with. 


Q. I've heard that you have completed principal photography on a documentar=
y
about the fall of Communism in Estonia. What can you tell us about this
project? When might people be able to see it? 

Silla: True, I filmed during the summer of 1995 in Estonia, and also
collected the historic archive footage for the documentary. It all seemed
like a miracle. I found all the people I had planned for the interviews and
recorded great stories at the setting of the Choir Song and Dance Festival.
I think of it as the Estonian "All Thing" -- symbolic of an ancient outdoor
temple ground where at least half of the nation gathers over every 4 years.=
 

I chose the subject of Estonia being a pioneer in breaking away from the ol=
d
USSR in 1987 because I was literally an active part of it when it was
happening; it was my heritage. It was a time of awakening, a time of large
gatherings of people, who would sing songs that had been forbidden since th=
e
time of Soviet occupation, and also new songs that rang through to the
heart. Free speech for all in that little place was the way when the rest o=
f
the world was kept in the dark about what was actually done there. 

Eight years after I did the filming in Estonia I was still planning to work
on the documentary, but during during a move to a new apartment in Estonia
my footage just disappeared. A large bag with 15 hours of footage was gone.
I had the NTSC version still in KBYU building vault where we were editing
with Mike Hutchinson as PBS desired to see a fine cut, but I don't think it
exists any more. If someone finds it I would be most grateful and will
definitely finish the film. 

One of the reasons I haven't completed this work may be that it took a long
time to find the money to transfer the PAL video to NTSC after I had shot
it. The PBS series "P.O.V." finally took interest and they got transferred.
Tom Lefler arranged for the transfers to get done, and Sterling Van Vagenen
set me up in KBYU. At times I felt like I let them down. I was about to
graduate, the editor had to leave, and I was also spending time on setting
up a production company in Salt Lake City. It is sad when you have been
excited about something, you have had an opportunity that should have been
used but it didn't work out. 


Q. Anybody with a perfunctory knowledge of film history appreciates the
influence of Russian filmmakers on the artform. I can think of not only
Eisenstein, who was one of the most important figures in the history of
film, but also influential filmmakers like Vsevolod Pudovkin, Alexander
Dovzhenko, and Dziga Vertov. What about specifically Estonian filmmakers?
Are there any whose work you admire? 

Silla: There are. I like a lot of Estonian films. They remind me more of
American films then the Russian ones. They are not so deeply philosophical
and some are actually rather entertaining. I personally feel that Estonian
films would do well in American cinema. If someone would like to try me, I
to bet that dubbing a Soviet occupation era Estonian film into English woul=
d
turn it into something hilarious -- something that school kids would
memorize and repeat the lines from. You may think: "Well, that's unlikely.
School kids don't like old foreign films that are black and white." Trust
me. Young people would love these films. I particularly enjoy the work of a
comedian director Sulev N=F5mmik. As far as I know he directed only 3 films:
"Mehed ei nuta" (1968; "Men Don't Cry"), "Noor pension=E4r" (1972; a.k.a.
"Young Pensioner") and "Siin me oleme" (1978; "Here We Are"). "Here We Are"
is a musical comedy that probably means to as much to Estonians as Monthy
Python means to the British. Arvo Kruusement's "Kevade" (1969; "Spring") is
to me a classic that I wouldn't miss if it were released in theaters again.
=DClo Nieminen's "Names in Marble" (2002) is a historical drama about how
young Estonian schoolboys lost their lives in war fighting for Estonian
independence in 1919. Priit P=E4rn's animated films are interesting. I hope
this gives you an idea of what Estonian films are like. 


Q. Which directors, from the United States or any place else, have
influenced you as a filmmaker? 

Silla: I don't think that a director could say or show anything in a pictur=
e
that is not like him or herself. I am a very visual filmmaker, if an image
causes a feeling to resonate, which is what Merchant Ivory's "Howard's End"
does for me, then I am satisfied. I don't believe that the visual can come
to the director or photographer without the screenplay being written to
compose a moving picture. When I read a screenplay, and I can see it framed
in my mind's eye. I can tell if it works with my style. I am sure there are
many screenwriters whose work I like, but Berry Berman and Tom Shulman are =
a
few that I would like to learn more from. Night Shyamalan is a director I
would like to learn from. Frank Capra's "It's a Wonderful Life" has probabl=
y
influenced me the most because of it's lesson to live a selfless life. I
have been selfish at times to the point where I couldn't let go of
situations where I didn't belong and things ended up in a disaster. To help
me be better I like to have a reminder of how to serve others. The film
"Patch Adams", which is based on a real person, also does this for me. The
choice of the score at the end of this film sums up for me what he's like:
"I got strength to the soul, I got faith of the heart, I'm going where the
heart will take me. I got faith to believe, I can do anything. It's been a
long road. Getting from here to there. And when I see. . . " 


Q. Who are some of your favorite authors? If you had to choose one book to
adapt to a feature film, what would it be? 

Silla: I look up to people who have been authors of their lives, people who
have honorably left their mark behind against all odds. Foremost among thes=
e
I would say are Abraham Lincoln, Dale Carnegie, and Henry Ford. One book is
quite hard to pick, but I recently read Eric Flint's 1632. I would like to
option it -- if somebody hasn't already done so by the time I'm able to. 


Q. How long have you been working in the film industry? 

Silla: I have been working on movies for 6 years now, learning about making
films and about how the industry works. I've worked on Hollywood studio
films helmed by other people, and I've completed a few short films of my
own. I've been trying to get things in place so that I can direct my first
feature. In many ways the odds are against a foreigner, but I would
encourage the international directors to follow their contrasting vision an=
d
international directorsdomestic producers to take advantage to in pursueing
it the proven industry model if they have the financing. 


Q. What are you working on now? 

Silla: I am in Estonia looking to finance a low-budget ($160,000 USD)
English language feature film. After a fairly extensive search I have found
the perfect, dynamic screenplay that I had hoped for. It is a contemporary
fantasy written by Mike Snyder. The working title is "The Unicorn." My firs=
t
response to him after reading and analyzing the photoplay was this: I was
overwhelmed! I have seen the unicorns, I have seen the film in my mind. If
the audience loves the writing as much as the writer loves the audience and
the characters, it brings a resonating feeling. The story makes you want to
echo its feeling of hope to people who haven't felt this kind of hope for a
long time. When I read this script I thought it was sublime and at the same
time so powerful. In the end, there's a way in which you really believe in
these unicorns, and you look at other people and think, "I believe in you,
too." This motion picture deserves to be made well. It can be made well if
the whole production team feels united in the cause to live in this magic
during the development and production. Whoever works on this will have to
have love in their hearts, or they can mess up the whole thing. Whoever
reads this must cry and laugh, or they should not touch it. 


Q. What can you tell us about the plot of "The Unicorn"? 

Silla: It is about hope. The moral of the story is shown in Lee's song to
her daughter Josie: "A song about faith...and trust...and love...and
unicorns." 

A premise would read probably something like this: The story begins with a
13-year-old named JOSIE, who encounters and then befriends a unicorn cub,
CODY, at the mesa near the home where she lives with her aunt BONNY and her
uncle CALEB. Josie, something of a tomboy, a daughter of a local Country
Western singer LEE Calder, inspires the TV journalist, BILL Collingwood, to
come and search for the fabled Cody, and to eventually bring with him a
record producer, YOAKUM. Trust in honorable men is restored to the
heartbroken women by the actual Unicorn, while knuckleheads like COLE and
DUSTY make attempts to capture it. SAMUEL, a Native American whose family
has had a unique association with the unicorns for hundreds of years,
emerges to take Josie and Lee on their life's journey. This is what the
unicorns have meant to his own people. 


Q. Obviously "The Unicorn" would be a unique film. But is there any film yo=
u
could compare it to in tone or style? 

Silla: I am not sure if there is anything unique any more in this world,
however original something may seem. "All new is forgotten old" as they say=
.


I definitely do an analysis for myself based on how comparative pictures
have grossed in the GBO, but for this micro-budget film it is almost
pointless, as there is no P&A money spent by the studios, or any
distribution windows looking forward to it. It is a film made on spec, but
still I need to make sure it returns the investment and hopefully generates
a profit. I would leave it for the viewers to decide if it is like anything
else. 


Q. The budget you mentioned is very small for an American-made feature film=
,
but would go a long ways in Eastern Europe, where the film crews are very
experienced, but less expensive. How does this factor into your plans? 

Silla: I am certain everyone has their own right pattern for filmmaking. I
can tell you what my plans are, and how they differ in a few ways from a
regular American studio film. My first films are unlikely to be produced in
the way I would like, because the money is not there, it needs to be made o=
n
DV even so I believe it deserves more, it truly makes me laugh and cry. Wit=
h
one of the next pictures I can go with the pattern I believe to be right fo=
r
me, this is where, let's say, you have 1 million dollars to develop three
pictures as an undertaker for a studio. From the 1 MLN USD 120% is projecte=
d
to be returned in 1 year, and conferred to the investor is also 10%
participation from each picture's company gross over 3 years. The productio=
n
budget for each of these films needs to be about 30-60 million USD. True it
is that this money comes from the entertainment industry banks, and as bank=
s
never take a risk it is not a risky venture for them or the producer from
that point on (if the story and talent is there). This money is secured by
pre-sale and studio distribution agreements and by a completion bond. This
is like a negative pickup but with the difference that just the right amoun=
t
of rights is given to the studio. 

A feature film financed this way might not be able to introduce very much
LDS culture. Nevertheless, they can inspire the world for better. These
pictures are for a world-wide audiences, and to be successful they have to
at least garner their production costs at the box office, and a total
approximately triple that when U.S. box office gross is combined with the
foreign, video, and ancillary markets. And they will, because banks don't
take any risk. You know that a picture's success is for the most part
determined before any development money (1 MLN) is spent. It is a process
and uses a formula. As a creative producer, you are still the artist
deciding the outcome, but you have a team of US executives involved to
ensure global success. You choose a team that is most respected from among
completion bond companies, major studios, banks, publicists, entertainment
law-firms and presale companies. You pick bankable people, and you learn
from them. As more of us become adept at doing this, we pave the way for
others. The majority of the film industry is optimistic about working with
anyone immersed in the culture who has sound business experience in
mainstream filmmaking, as long as they are talented. 


Q. What is your long-term goal as a filmmaker? 

Silla: It may be true, that I as a foreigner might be unable to participate
in this grand work, but I'm thrilled to see others do so. I hope to be a
part of this in at least some small way, to fill the pail of good drop by
drop. I hope we make our works through the love of our Savior. This is my
hope and my prayer. 




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gkeystone@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 18 Nov 2002 14:15:50 EST


Glen Sudbury writes to Paris Anderson:

New age Mormons?   This question cuts like a knife to the core of the 
literature and art in general debate in the Church today.  A question we seem 
to be struggling with is not only the quality issue of Mormon literature and 
art but more fundamentally if we even need any.  After all, the reasoning 
goes, isn't a bit presumptuous to read literature, poets, when we already 
have "the most correct book ever written?"

Besides that our language of the restoration suggests to some almost an 
overwhelming amount of truth already in our possession.  Phrases such as, 
"the dispensation of the fullness of times, the times of the restoration of 
all things, a time when all that is hid is revealed, truth floods the earth, 
and so forth... suggest satiety" as Dr. Terryl L. Givens recently pointed out 
in a talk at BYU.  

With such ideas it is easy for some to assume that simply knowing the Church 
is true, or the Gospel is true is supposed to solve all the problems and 
questions for all of us.  (Or others falsely assume that as good as it gets 
is peace and acceptance of "all that the Father seeth fit to inflict upon 
us.")   

So is it presumptuous, redundant, and even maybe a slap in Brother Joseph's 
face to look to the far east, or western philosophers, doctors, healers, 
medicine men, poets, authors, and such?  Or can we only be true to the faith 
that our parents have cherished by hacking in on the wisdom of the world?  

I have a brilliant friend who has read nothing except the Book of Mormon and 
other scriptures for 5 years.  Is this an ideal for all as he seems to 
suggest in conversation or dangerous reading by the light of is own 
understanding as it appears to me?

If our individual and collective pain, sorrow, and suffering is most often 
caused by our own ignorance, stupidity, and sin which it seems to be.  Then 
taking personal responsibility for learning where  ever and however we can 
and sharing however and whenever we can seems to be what love is all about.  
Both self love and love of others.  

Western medicine, like churches, even the Church, often assumes or pretends 
to have answers because it has become very good at putting labels on 
problems.  Literature, good literature, goes about doing good as the Savior 
did.  Prevention, in every area of our lives is better than cure.  

To me "new age Mormons" suggests a taking of responsibility to be a prophet 
oneself.  Of accepting the reality of the heavens being opened not to just 
Prophets but that answers can come to us as we read, and think about the 
words and between the lines of all good books.

Great art is often produced by those who have suffered and struggled 
physically and metaphysically, body and mind.  Church members and the body of 
the saints have suffered much of body in these latter days.  I wonder however 
if we have suffered enough in mind to produce the great literature for which 
we hunger on this AML site and in our private lives.    

[Glen Sudbury]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Writer's Workshop on Cultivating Creativity
Date: 18 Nov 2002 14:23:55 -0700

[I'm forwarding the following as a favor.]

WRITERS!
Come to a Writer's Workshop to:
"Cultivate Creativity"=20
=20
=B7 Transcend your limitations and fears
=B7 Dissolve writer's block
=B7 Open new conduits to creativity
=B7 Bring your writing to life
=B7 Get your most pressing writing and publishing questions answered

Place: Marie Callender's
       1109 East 3900 South
       Salt Lake City, UT
       Time: 9 a.m. - 12 noon

Continental breakfast will be served as you feast on the words of the
presenters!

Believing in Yourself as a Writer - Getting past the roadblocks of fear =
and
emotional sabotage, by Darla Isackson, 12 years as Managing Editor of
Latter-day Woman Magazine, Covenant Communications, and Aspen Books.
=20
Turn on Your Imagination - Cultivate creativity so your nonfiction =
reads
like a story and fiction sounds real, by Gayla Wise, author and owner =
of
Brass Lamp Publishing in AZ.
=20
Question and Answer Session - Choose your area of greatest need. Darla,
Gayla and Janet Bernice (fiction and screenplay writer), will field
questions in separate groups.
=20
Make a commitment now to jump-start your new year!  Writers write, and =
we
can help you get started, keep going, and pursue your dreams!
=20
Seating is limited!
=20
Workshop price:  $39.00 if pre-registered
$45.00 at the door
=20
Remit payment by check or money order to:   =20
Darla Isackson
2565 Fern Circle
West Jordan, UT 84084
 =20
For more information about this workshop, the presenters, or ongoing
Writer's Retreats, contact:  janet_scots@yahoo.com or =
darla2@xmission.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pdhunter@wt.net
Subject: [AML] Film Festival Winners
Date: 18 Nov 2002 20:50:02 GMT

Winners announcement by Christian Vuissa, from ldsbox.com:


2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL 2002
NOVEMBER 13-16 | PROVO CITY LIBRARY

AND THE WINNERS ARE...

With over 30 exceptional events and an attendance of
1500, the 2ND LDS FILM FESTIVAL was a big success.
Thank you for coming and participating! We are already
looking forward to next year's 3RD LDS FILM FESTIVAL
2003.


WINNERS SHORT SCREENPLAY COMPETITION

Honorable Mention:
Brandon Dayton - "Coney Island"
Hubbel Palmer/Tim Skousen - "Rainbows With a Great
Circumference"
Hubbel Palmer/Tim Skousen - "?"

3rd Place and $ 50:
Mary Christenson Aagard - "Washington County Fair"

2nd Place and $ 150:
Cameron Hopkin - "Mary's Cross"

1st Place and $ 400:
Barrett Hilton - "Car Keys"


WINNERS 24-HOUR FILMMAKING MARATHON

Honorable Mention:
Christian Lambert - "You Can't Just Change...Can You"
Jarond Suman - "The Jacket"
Tyree Pini - "Redemption for Five Cents"
Spencer Arntsen - "Mara"
Jacen Brewer - "The Bond Between Brothers"

1st Place (shared) and $ 200/each:
Tim Skousen - "Why I Hate Myself"
Christopher S. Clark - "Outward In"


WINNERS SHORT FILM COMPETITION

Honorable Mention:
Andrew Black - "Avernus"
Susan Teh - "500 N 600 W & Beyond"
Jared Hess - "Peluca"
Christopher Rawson - "I Will Weep No More"
Andrew Black - "The Snell Show"

Audience Choice Awards:
Spanky Ward - "Number 9"
Chet Thomas - "Simplicity"
Susan Teh - "500 N 600 W & Beyond"

3rd Place and $ 100:
Bryan Lefler - "Warplay"

2nd Place and $ 300:
Tyler Measom - "Fall of Man"

1st Place and $ 1000:
Winner Lightbox Award
Chet Thomas - "Simplicity"

The following films were selected for the "Best of 2002"
programs:

Program I:
Matthew Janzen - "Funky Town"
Jared Hess - "Peluca"
Andrew Black - "The Snell Show"
Susan Teh - "500 N 600 W & Beyond"
Jason Conforto - "Cursed Is the Ground"
Tim Skousen - "Next Door"
Cole Webley - "Goodbye"
Andrew Black - "Avernus"
Bryan Lefler - "Barren Earth"

Program II:
Bryan Lefler - "Warplay"
Jerusha Hess - "Streamers"
Keith Paugh - "Variations on a Theme"
Branden Morris - "Every 15 Minutes"
Christopher Rawson - "I Will Weep No More"
Tyler Measom - "Fall of Man"
Spanky Ward - "Number 9"
Jason Faller - "The Ivy Exchange"
Chet Thomas - "Simplicity"

The winners of the Feature Screenplay Competition will
be announced in about 14 days. The total prize money
awarded to screenwriters and filmmakers this year is
$3000.00.

We would like to thank all the filmmakers and volunteers
for their great work! We are looking forward to an
exciting next year! Hope to see you and your films there!

[MOD: I'm also tacking into this post the following:]

The judges of the short films this year at the LDS Film
Festival were:

Christian Vuissa (filmmaker and festival founder)

Alisa Anglesey, Filmmaker (Director of: In Time of Need; The
Good Samaritan; Elijah and the Widow of Zarephath)

Thomas Baggaley, Composer and LDSFilm.com correspondent

Scott L. Reinwand, Composer ("The Wrong Brother", "Freedom
on the Water", "Little Voices", etc.)

Eric Snider, Film critic, humor columnist and nexus of
reality for the Daily Herald (Utah County)


- Preston Hunter



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Amelia Parkin"  (by way of Jonathan Langford )
Subject: [AML] re: Epiphanies
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:30:10 -0600

Robert Slaven wrote:
"Of course, the above doesn't prevent my favourite hypothesis:  God designed 
our brains with the above response intentionally, and then stimulates it 
when he wants to talk to us (or the Holy Spirit does that, whatever, it's a 
detail).  When someone claims to have seen something that doesn't fit with 
our gospel (Mohammed's receiving the Qu'ran, people seeing the Virgin Mary, 
people thinking they were abducted by aliens), it represents one of three 
things:
1) God/the Holy Spirit stimulated that area in hopes of giving some
revelation to the person, but they didn't "get it";
2) Some natural process stimulated that area -- a biochemical glitch in the 
person's brain, a quirk of some existing electromagnetic field in that 
location -- and the person made whatever sense of it they could*;
3) Maybe Satan knows how to stimulate that area, too."

This is me now:
Unfortunately, my impression upon reading Robert's words was as follows: a 
person who has a spiritual or metaphysical experience which doesn't fit into 
the Mormon experience is one of the following: (1) spiritually out of tune; 
(2) they had a glitch in the physical workings of their body; or (3) they're 
subject to manipulation by Satan.

I am sure Robert did not mean to imply such a statement.  However, the 
implication was there and (the most unfortunate part) my experience with 
Mormon culture has made it a plausible reading of Robert's statement.

I've been watching this thread and the "Y'all Should Get Out More" thread 
for the last few days.  Both have been very interesting.  The (potential) 
attitude I see in the above passage from Robert's post is my reason for 
believing Mormons ought to get out more.  I'm not talking geographically.  
I've lived in several places in this country, including Utah for more than 
six years.  In every one of those places I have seen attitudes in Mormons 
that I find unfortunate.  I've seen parents who wouldn't let their kids play 
with non-members for little reason other than they were non-members.  I've 
seen continuing lack of acceptance of single mothers.  I can't tell you how 
often I have seen members of our church dismiss the spiritual experiences of 
non-members because, clearly, they aren't valid spiritual experiences.  This 
is especially true if the person's spiritual experience leads them to not 
join the church.  Why can't we simply accept that we do not have a corner on 
religion and spiritual experience?  Why is it not possible that other 
people's spiritual experiences are not only every bit as valid as our own 
but every bit as true?  Who are we to say that God can only speak to people 
through the still small voice or through accepted Christian prophets or 
accepted Christian scripture?  Is it not possible that our omniscient, 
omnipotent, and very loving God could be communicating to his beloved 
children through means that they will recognize and be more willing to 
accept than through the appearance of a stranger?  I agree fully with the 
statement that Mormons need to get out more.  But what we need to get out of 
is the insular society of Mormonism, not a specific community.

I'm lucky.  I left my insulated Mormon society (believe me it was very 
closed off) about three and a half years ago.  Since then I have developed 
good friendships with people who are Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, agnostic, 
and atheist.  All of them were spiritual people, even those who outright 
denied the existence of deity.  I've learned a lot from them about God and 
the spirit and what it means to be spiritual.  About what it means to love 
and to respect other human beings.  About openness and honesty.  And I 
didn't learn these things because of how they made me realize how lucky I am 
to be Mormon (I don't consider self-affirmation a form of learning).  Yes, I 
believe Mormonism offers access to truths that otherwise I may not be able 
to access.  But I do not believe it is the only avenue to truth or to 
spiritual experience.  I believe that we have a lot to learn and some of 
that can be learned from other people and their spiritual experiences.  I 
would love to see a piece of literature that explores such relationships, 
that delves into difference without attacking it and demanding that it be 
resolved into similarity.  And I would love to see literature that explores 
similarity in spiritual experiences while allowing for difference of 
beliefs.  I think such literature could have a powerful impact on both an 
LDS market and a more national market.

amelia parkin


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Barbara R. Hume" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 18 Nov 2002 17:41:10 -0700

At 02:00 AM 11/16/02, you wrote:
>I say, anyone so foolish as to replace scripture study with film-viewing
>deserves the pathetic scriptural scholarship they will have earned, and
>the filmmaker holds no responsibility for the results.

Orson Scott Card said that when he wrote scripts for the dramatized Bible 
and Book of Mormon, people thought the little stories he put in to 
illustrate the point were Scripture.




barbara hume





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Polygamy
Date: 18 Nov 2002 16:54:09 -0800

I really like what Kelly wrote here. This makes you think of the =
interesting things you could write from a Heavenly perspective:

Heavenly Father sitting at His desk in Heaven (computer terminal with =
word processor program open or Journal open in front of Him - =
writing/typing).

	Note to self (God the Father in "Journal of Heaven/Book of Life" on or =
about 1831):=20

	"Oh, my heck!!! Joseph Smith asked the question I REALLY had hoped he =
would never ask: 'Why 	did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and =
Solomon have so many wives and concubines when 	the Book of Mormon =
teaches it should not be unless you command it?' Little does he know the =
	can of worms (pile of poopoo) he has opened. Now I have to answer his =
prayer AND command him 	to live the principle and I KNOW what his wife =
will say - and she will NEVER ask for 	confirmation; that is not her way =
when it comes to matters of the heart). The really tough 	part is I know =
I will have to get out the big tick to make Joseph obey this Law. Oh, =
well. 	What are you gonna do? He asked for it and here it comes." ->

	Cut to revelation of D&C 132 and the look on Joseph's face!!!

That could almost be a comedy if it wasn't such a painful memory for =
some. Interesting thought would be since it was portrayed as a "test" in =
the book Kelly talked about what would happen in modern times if the =
same "test" was sent again? "Watch out Below!"

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] Reading Copies
Date: 18 Nov 2002 18:00:33 -0800

Boyd, you would have felt MUCH better had you simply donated the book to me.  
You knew this...must have just slipped your mind.



11/15/2002 4:42:21 PM, Boyd Petersen  wrote:

>What I think is disgraceful is that my book only made $30 for the person
>selling it. It's worth MUCH, MUCH more than that! ;)
>
>--Boyd


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Articles on Deseret Book ban
Date: 18 Nov 2002 15:20:50 -0700

Book ban could be a blessing 
By Lee Benson
Deseret News columnist
Nov. 18, 2002

       No matter whether you think Richard Paul Evans' latest book is smut
or not, you have to admire Deseret Book for exercising its right to not
stock Evans' "The Last Promise" because it thinks it's smut.
      When bookstores can't stock what they want to and throw out the rest,
there goes free enterprise and the American way.
      Meanwhile, authors everywhere have to stand in awe of what Deseret
Book has done for Richard Paul Evans' "The Last Promise."
      He's gonna sell a million of 'em.

      Nor is it the first time Deseret Book has helped out Evans, in a
roundabout sort of way. Eight years ago, when he wrote "The Christmas Box,"
Deseret Book was among the publishing houses that declined to publish the
book. Not because of objectionable content, but because all books submitted
for publication don't automatically get a green light (as I've personally
discovered in dealing with publishing houses, including Deseret Book). Evans
got a rejection slip.
      What happened after that is a part of publishing lore. Evans
self-published "The Christmas Box," almost literally peddling it out of a
little red wagon. Indefatigable as a marketer and self-promoter, Evans
pushed the book until it reached No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller
list - reportedly the only self-published book ever to scale such a height.
Then came a CBS TV movie. Quicker than you could say national phenomenon,
Richard Paul Evans had become Utah's answer to John Grisham.
      If "The Christmas Box" - its homespun setting is in the Salt Lake
Avenues - had been published as a regional book, marketed primarily for an
LDS audience, it might have never found its way to New York.

      But as Richard Paul Evans has turned himself into an institution,
Deseret Book has remained one. Its buyout three years ago of Bookcraft was a
clear indication that the biggest player in the LDS book market wanted to be
an even bigger player.
      Last week's news - as announced by Evans, not Deseret Book - that "The
Last Promise" wouldn't be on Deseret Books' shelves this Christmas time was
an even clearer indication. It wasn't a moral decision, Deseret Book
president Sheri Dew made certain to point out, it was an economic decision.
Deseret Book knows its customers and its customers don't buy Jackie Collins.
And if they do, they don't buy Jackie Collins at Deseret Book.
      So, the company will refuse to stock books with themes that violate
the core values of Deseret Book core customers. It won't do a CleanFlicks
and edit out the objectionable parts, either. It will keep objectionable
publications off its shelves, period.
      That's its niche, and it's sticking to it.
      It's a bold move. If "The Last Promise," written by an LDS author with
LDS values of his own, isn't acceptable, then how many of the New York
Times' national best sellers can possibly make the grade? Will Deseret
Book's national "top 10" include two books actually on the bookstore
shelves? Three? Seven?
      The rest you'll have to order and pick up in plain brown wrappers.
      But if loyal begets loyal, Deseret Book's customers will applaud the
company's standing for something and storm the aisles in droves.
      Maybe this story about Richard Paul Evans and the company that keeps
rejecting his work will have a happy ending.
      Maybe they'll both end up selling more books.
      
Lee Benson's column runs Sunday, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Please send
e-mail to benson@desnews.com and faxes to 801-237-2527.

++++

Banned Novel at Deseret Book Could Open Floodgate: What About Classics? 
Sunday, November 17, 2002 
 
By Holly Mullen
The Salt Lake Tribune

   Today's discussion on great books and the people who sell them will start
with a little background. 
    First, Deseret Book is a business, not a public library. The store's
owner, the LDS Church, gets to stock any book it wants. 
    Second, we live in a world where, like every other consumer decision,
even the sweetly simple task of choosing a book to read is governed by
sophisticated market research. People who know little more than how to read
a bar chart are the real power in deciding which books land in your favorite
bookstore. Sadly, these research-driven choices are often sterile and just
plain dumb. 
    And finally, Sheri Dew, former president of the LDS Church's Relief
Society and current president and CEO of Deseret Book, is a bright,
professional and well-read woman with a mountainous task ahead of her. 
    These observations grow out of a decision by Deseret Book against
stocking copies of beloved Utah author Richard Paul Evans' latest book, The
Last Promise. The book departs from the syrupy formulas of Evans' past
best-sellers such as The Christmas Box, and takes a little dip into an
adulterous relationship (though Evans has said the married woman and the man
with whom she spends the night do not consummate the relationship). 
    The book, says Dew, "didn't fit for us because it didn't fit for a huge
number of our customers." And because the book falls outside the lines of
recently overhauled standards for moral content. 
    It wasn't that anyone complained about The Last Promise, which would be
tough to do since the book's ink is barely dry. "We have an extensive body
of research to show that this title falls out of the guidelines people
depend on when shopping in our stores," Dew says. 
    Translation: Books with even mild themes of adultery, sex between
unmarried adults, homosexuality, excess profanity and drug use will, from
now on, get a thorough analysis. 
    What is trickier is where this policy leaves classic works that feature
conflicts between good and evil, or examinations of humankind's darker,
animal nature. These titles grace the shelves of the downtown Deseret Book
classics section, so pick your favorite: The Scarlet Letter, The Grapes of
Wrath, Pride and Prejudice, Wuthering Heights. 
    Prolific steamy romance author Danielle Steel is a big seller at DB. Her
latest novel, The Cottage, on Page 166 offers a conversation between two men
on a girlfriend's illegitimate pregnancy and its effect on her future in
porn films, as well as liberal use of the word "s--t." 
    Dew says buyers and managers at the chain's 35 stores are busy reviewing
75,000 active titles for content that fits guidelines. That's a mess of
reading. 
    "It isn't an issue of good versus evil," she says. "That is a tension
that makes for good reading and the best classics deal with it. Our concern
is if a book makes immorality sympathetic." 
    The sticky issue of violence is less clear. Deseret Book carries the
wildly popular "Left Behind" series by "prophecy scholar" Tim LaHaye and
Jerry B. Jenkins. The 10 novels are set in a post-apocalyptic world, and
focus on those left behind after the righteous have gone to heaven in the
Christian Rapture. 
    They are chockablock with Christian values -- and gorged with violence
-- as in this book jacket description of Book 5, Appolyon: 
    The Fifth Trumpet Judgment -- a plague of scorpion-like locusts led by
Appolyon, chief demon of the abyss -- is so horrifying that men try to kill
themselves but are not allowed to die. 
    These, Dew says, "are on the list of things to discuss." 
    hmullen@sltrib.com 
    
+++++

Also, Bagley did a funny cartoon in the Trib. It isn't up on the web archive
yet, but it should be soon at
http://www.sltrib.com/bagley/Archive.asp?Vol=content&Num=0. 




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 18 Nov 2002 20:57:24 -0700

I'm chiming in on this thread, although probably later than I should have.  But 
as someone who grew up in "the mission field" in Oklahoma, but has lived in 
Salt Lake City the last seven years, I've seen both sides.  Incidentally, I 
haven't heard the term "the mission field" used much here in Salt Lake; I heard 
it a lot more in Oklahoma from folks who had originally lived in Utah but now 
found themselves in, well, "the mission field" and were ready to show us how 
things were "supposed" to be done.  From what I've seen, folks in Utah don't 
think about the rest of the world that much and don't have need to refer to it.

That was a snide comment, but the other side of it is that we've met a lot of 
really nice, really good people here in Utah.  It's not that they're self-
absorbed... well, I suppose that's an individual thing, and highly debatable, 
but it doesn't necessarily have to do with being a Utah Mormon.  Utah Mormons 
do humanitarian things and are interested in worldwide Church growth and so 
forth, but I'm guessing that Latter-day Saints in Oklahoma look to and think of 
the Saints in Utah a lot more than the Saints in Utah think about the ones in 
Oklahoma.  Utah represents a sort of ideal, and those who live there are 
already there.

I haven't heard anyone saying that they won't associate with nonmembers.  Not 
to say that these people don't exist, but those who I have associated with here 
in Salt Lake have not been that way.  They do, however, like to put on Church 
events and advertise them as "neighborhood events" so that nonmembers will want 
to come.  I don't know if this works or not.

Sometimes exclusion is inadvertant.  Just as an example, when we lived in 
student housing we moms would sit outside and visit while our kids played on 
the playground.  About 75% of us were LDS, but I never noticed any favoritism 
among the moms based on religion.  However, if someone started talking about 
Homemaking meeting, or if a group of LDS moms were already conversing about 
something Church-oriented, the nonmember coming to sit by us couldn't 
contribute to the conversation so well.  It didn't happen very often, and 
people usually tried to be sensitive and include everyone in our 
conversations.  Most of the nonmembers knew us well enough that they'd manage 
to work their way in, anyway.  But someone could easily be excluded in this 
manner.

Some things in Utah are just weird. For example, in the recent election we 
looked at a candidate's website that proclaimed that she'd "served in ward and 
stake callings."  People wouldn't bother to mention that sort of thing if they 
didn't think it would get them some votes.  I really don't know how many people 
voted for her just because she was LDS, but I wouldn't be surprised if that 
happened.  Why else would she have none-too-subtly mentioned it? 

When we were house-hunting, one real estate agent we talked to (a perfectly 
nice fellow, by the way) opened a folder to introduce us to the house-buying 
process, and displayed discreetly but prominently inside the folder was his 
temple recommend.  And thus we knew that he was an active Latter-day Saint.  He 
wouldn't have put it there if that wasn't a way of helping him to gain 
clients.  

Another guy we talked to in our ward wanted to set us up with a real estate 
agent, and in describing him he said, "He's not LDS, but..." Being from 
Oklahoma, we've grown up not worrying about a person's religion except when it 
comes to dating.  We were frankly taken aback to discover that anyone would 
prefer to do business with people they knew were Latter-day Saints.  But 
apparently this is a fairly common thing.  

I hear this a lot, actually, when people talk about other people:  "She's not 
LDS, but..."  Should we be surprised when someone of another (or no) faith 
turns out to be a worthwhile person?  Maybe it's that having real relationships 
with people who aren't LDS is seen as something of a novelty in Utah.  I've 
even caught myself saying it; it seems like this is information needed to give 
a full picture of who this person is.  In Oklahoma, you just assume everyone's 
not LDS.  If an LDS friend is talking about another friend of theirs, if 
they're actually LDS they'll let you know.

Crafts and scrapbooks and other "supermom" activities are more prominent here 
than they are in Oklahoma.  Or maybe I just didn't notice them so much when I 
lived there.  I feel a lot more guilt here for not being a perfect homemaker 
than I did when I lived in Oklahoma.  (But again, I was just starting out in 
Oklahoma, and was pretty oblivious to everything then.)  I've finally made a 
personal decision not to bother much with crafts, and not to fret because I 
hate sewing.

And of course, there are always those moments that make you do a double-take, 
like when I went to Old Navy and asked if there were longer shorts anywhere, 
and the sales clerk sympathetically asked me if I wore garments.  That never 
would have happened in Oklahoma.  Or when we had a conference with our son's 
kindergarten teacher about some choices we could make about how he was 
educated, and she said we should pray about it.  

And what about those weird Utah laws that make it difficult for people to buy 
alcohol?  Personally they don't bother me, but you can't tell me that those 
laws were passed by non-Latter-day Saints who like to buy the stuff.  Somewhere 
along the line, it was a group of Latter-day Saints who held the majority and 
ruled that everyone should live by their moral code.  That really bothers me, 
even if I am personally just as happy not to have a liquor store or two on 
every corner around here.

That all being said, I'll say again that most of the Utahns that I've 
interacted with personally have been friendly and reasonable, and there are 
plenty of good people here who work tirelessly to build the Kingdom.  There's 
still lots of work to be done in Utah.  You just don't have to drive halfway 
across the state to do it.  Good people exist everywhere.  So do not-so-good 
people, and people with weird ideas who are still good people and are operating 
within the reality that they understand. 

And the literary tie-in is--???  People who haven't lived in and experienced 
Utah will have a harder time convincingly writing fiction that takes place 
there, with characters who live there.  And people who haven't lived in "the 
mission field" don't really know what that's like, either.
(But I like to think I'm literate in both.  ;-)

--Katie Parker







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Annette Lyon" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 18 Nov 2002 21:01:37 -0700

One more on this thread--I think the discussion so far shows that Utah isn't
quite as homogenous as some think. When I was a toddler my family lived in
one Utah town that was very exclusionary to any outsider (basically anyone
not born there or at least of pioneer stock). As my mother was not only not
of pioneer stock but was born in a foreign country and spoke with an accent,
she was all but ostracized and totally miserable.

Fast forward a few years when the family moved to a city twenty minutes
north. We found an entirely different culture and attitude. Result? She has
been happy and welcome in their current neighborhood for nearly twenty-five
years. But just whisper the name of the first city and she'll still bristle.
What a difference a few miles can make--even in Utah.

Annette Lyon





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 18 Nov 2002 21:25:03 -0700

Steve, the reason most of us don't write hymns is that we lack experience in
the genre, but you and your mother must have written hymns.  Do you have any
interest in hymn writing?  I know your mother wrote "As Sisters in Zion."
My favorite hymn was sung Sunday by the MoTabs "Come, Thou Fount of Every
Blessing."  I believe this hymn was sung early on in the church.  Does
anyone know why this hymn is not included in the hymnal?  I also like
"Simple Gifts," but I am pretty sure I know why this one isn't in the book.
It is just too fun to sing.

Nan McCulloch


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Justin Halverson 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 18 Nov 2002 23:57:25 -0500



D. Michael Martindale wrote:

>It almost sounds like you're saying the BoM film has to be scripture,
>for fear people will use it as their source of knowledge of the BoM
>rather than reading the book itself. I know you're not really trying to
>say that, but it seems to be the implication of what you're saying.
>
>I say, anyone so foolish as to replace scripture study with film-viewing
>deserves the pathetic scriptural scholarship they will have earned, and
>the filmmaker holds no responsibility for the results.

I wholeheartedly agree. I guess my objection lies mainly in the perhaps 
not-very-thought-out but deeply felt conviction I have that the Book of 
Mormon itself is something not to be messed around with. You asked in an 
earlier post: "Why not? Is the world (or the Bible) worse off for all the 
adaptations of Bible material that have occurred?" I would argue that yes, 
the world and the Bible are both worse off, if only in that commercializing 
the Bible to the extent that always occurs when making a film (or little 
action figures, or tee-shirts, or anything made for economic reasons), it 
becomes a thing more (and I can't believe I'm using this rhetoric) "of the 
world."

Don't get me wrong. I love things of this world. I'm really glad to be here 
and am not particularly excited about leaving, no matter what's waiting for 
me. I totally get Frank Windham. But there are things that we should treat 
differently, and when we don't, whether we see it or not, it hurts us. One 
of my favorite writers is Flannery O'Connor, who lamented having to shock 
people into thinking about the sacred, largely as a result of this process. 
People complain about Mormon culture being too corporate, about missionary 
work being done like multi-level marketing. Why are we surprised? What do 
we expect?

And I agree that the filmmaker, or any artist, holds no responsibility for 
the way his or her work is taken, how it is appropriated, or how it is read 
or viewed. I'm just unwilling, on a personal level, to use certain things 
that way.

>The film is for entertainment, telling us the stories that we
>have come to love in an exciting new way.

Maybe this is inconsistent with what I've written above, but I agree that 
films should be made (as I think I mentioned in my initial post) that 
explore the stories and themes in the Book of Mormon. After all, it's been 
said that every work in Western literature is somehow influenced by the 
Bible. I would, however, like a respectful distance maintained--a recasting 
in other terms.

>And remember, the Harry Potter articles that you have presented as
>evidence for your position also say that many children took up reading
>for the first time after seeing the movie. Do you think this won't
>happen with cool Book of Mormon films? Surely a trade-off with a net
>benefit.

I've thought a lot about this in different terms, mainly as regards some of 
the stunts I pulled as a missionary to get the Book of Mormon into people's 
hands. I've had long discussions with friends of mine who sell "Living 
Scriptures" videos. I think that if something is made non-commercially, I'd 
feel a lot better about it. I don't like seeing the Book of Mormon 
commodified in any way, even if it gets people to read it. It's an ends and 
means thing for me. (I don't remember using Harry Potter as an example, as 
I don't see it as the same thing at all.)

I think what I'm trying to express is similar to the sentiment that 
motivates your outrage about Deseret Book possibly removing books like _The 
Scarlet Letter_ and _Jane Eyre_ (though I don't want to put words in your 
mouth). I read your objection as rooted in the idea that there are things 
we hold to be important because they teach us how to be human--the 
masterpieces of literature are some of them. While I of course acknowledge 
that market pressures affect (and sometimes effect) their production, I 
(and I think you, maybe) would like to say that there is something more to 
them that makes it, in your words, asinine, to yank them for any reason, 
especially something as mundane as a business decision. Deseret Book has 
been criticized by many on this list for displaying a complete lack of 
moral understanding, even though DB says it is purely supply more precisely 
addressing demand. I would argue that we can't treat the Book of Mormon 
like a business decision--which, if we're making films about it, can't be 
avoided, I don't think, unless someone's willing to put up all the money 
and pay theaters to show it for free (or even at cost), which clearly is 
not going to happen--and not expect to get our notion of the sacred tangled 
up with our notion of economics.

Justin Halverson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Derek1966@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:41:11 EST

My mom often talked of all the hymns she had grown up with in the LDS 
hymnbook which had been removed, and about 10 years ago found a Baptist 
hymnal at the Atlanta church were Dr. King preached. She chose her 10 
favorites from that book and produced an album of them entitled "My Lord, 
What a Morning," with Greg Hansen doing the arrangements.

John Perry




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy (comp 3)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:40:35 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

>From dmichael@wwno.com Sat Nov 16 02:08:06 2002

Andrew Hall wrote:

> Who is willing to stand up against encroaching cultural
> blandness?
> What do you say?

I'm willing, but I'm not sure your approach is the best.

How about pooling our resources and placing a page-size satirical ad in
the Salt Lake Tribune announcing the schedule of book burnings that will
be happening in Deseret Book parking lots? Sheri Dew will personally
toss in the first copy of Richard Paul Evans' banned book at the first
burning.

D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

>From barbara@techvoice.com Sat Nov 16 13:58:53 2002

If the message of Evan's book is the necessity of redemption and 
repentance, then in what way does it clash with the values of the typical 
LDS customer?  However, if the values of those customers include pretending 
that no Mormon character or admirable character ever did or does anything 
wrong, the bookshelves will be empty.

barbara hume

>From rrasband@yahoo.com Sat Nov 16 16:55:27 2002

My earlier post on Deseret Book and Richard Paul Evans was mistaken when I
said that the "Deseret News" article mentioned "The Scarlet Letter" as a
possible target for banning.  The article didn't give any books as
examples.  I don't know where I came up with that.  Wishful thinking on my
part, I guess.  It would have been too perfect.

=====
R.W. Rasband
Heber City, UT
rrasband@yahoo.com

>From ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu Mon Nov 18 09:21:50 2002

I'm really aboard with Andrew on this one, with one cautionary codicil:  I =
don't know the facts of the case.  Let's do a bit more research and see =
what it is they mean by this policy.  But then, by all means, let's send a =
petition.  I, for one, would cheerfully sign it.

Eric Samuelsen

>From Chris.Bigelow@unicitynetwork.com Mon Nov 18 10:50:46 2002

Hmm, I'm torn on Andrew's proprosal. I feel deeply alienated by this new
policy of Deseret Book's, but they've apparently done their research about
what their customers want and expect, and from what I know about mainstream
orthodox Mormons it doesn't surprise me t'all. It just shows that there is a
growing cultural divide, and I don't think a petition is going to do
anything positive. It's just going to make them say, "Well, those liberals
over at the AML have said what we expected them to." I think it would be
better to kill Deseret Book with kindness by continuing to review their
books with as much generosity as possible and to do things like interview
Sheri Dew in the spring Irreantum, which, last I heard, she had agreed to
participate in. I think our stance toward them should be, "Maybe you know
something we don't; help thou our unbelief," and that way we can try to keep
some doors of communication open that a condescending petition might slam
shut. By considering and respecting their policies and products to the
highest degree possible without compromising our own integrity, maybe we can
help them honor and respect some of our outlooks instead of circle the
wagons. 

Chris Bigelow 

>From kcmadsen@utah-inter.net Mon Nov 18 11:33:52 2002

I've started a letter writing campaign among my friends and
neighbors to let them know how this consumer feels about their
Deseret Book's "business decision" to remove "objectionable"
material from their stores. Here's a copy of the letter I sent if
anyone else on this list wants to do the same. If enough people
tell them how they feel, maybe we can sway the decision makers.
Or am I just a hopeless idealist?


The letter:
Dear Sirs,

I could not, in good conscience, go without making some attempt
at communicating this one consumer's opinion. I have been
disappointed and saddened to read of the "business decision" made
by your company to not sell books deemed "inappropriate" or that
have upset some of your customers in the past. I firmly believe
that this is a knee jerk reaction to a very small and vocal
minority of your customers.

Just to help you profile the responses you may be getting from
people, I am 44 years old. I have lived in Utah my entire life,
having been raised in the church and actively living its
teachings. I am a current temple recommend holder. I serve as the
1st counselor in the YW Presidency in my ward in Centerville. I
am the mother of 3 children, a temple-married daughter who is
expecting her first child, a son who is serving as AP in the
Texas Houston East mission, and 14 year old 9th grade daughter
who takes seminary, and is her MIA class president. My husband
and I have been married 27 years. He has served in bishoprics,
Elder's quorum and High Priest presidencies and is currently the
most fantastic CTR 8 teacher the church has. In short, we are
average, faithful LDS people. Last year I spent over $300 at
Deseret Book in gifts, books for myself and items for my Young
Women and my husband's Primary class. This will not be the case
in the future.

My husband and I are also thinking, educated people. We find it
extremely offensive that Deseret Book feels the need to cull
titles from their offerings. You have never been known for
selling anything but high quality literature, church correlated
titles and LDS-themed fiction (as weak as much of that writing
is...I understand there is a market for it.) You have never
carried prurient or highly controversial works. Why on earth this
sudden need to placate a stridently vocal minority who somehow
feel the need to control the world around them? If there are
books that offend their sensibilities, why do they simply not
look at them? Why do they need to make sure that I not see them
as well? You were doing just fine--a business known for
conservative stock, but certainly not one who would be associated
with repression and censorship.

Whatever happened to teaching correct principles and letting the
people govern themselves? Your "business decision" offends my
spirit of free agency. I will never again purchase items from
Deseret Book. I will encourage all of my friends, members of my
book clubs and all that I know to do the same. Maybe I am
incorrect in this thinking, but I believe there are more LDS
people who feel as I do than those who are upset by the material
in your stores and books that carry mature themes of forgiveness
and redemption. Hopefully our collective pocketbooks will cause
the decision makers at your company to re-evaluate their actions.

I hope you will pass this email to others in your company who
need to know how this book lover, avid reader and ex-customer of
Deseret Book feels.

Kim Madsen

>From kcmadsen@utah-inter.net Fri Nov 15 18:23:27 2002

[MOD: Another post by Kim, this one in reply to this thread.]

Your words captured my reaction exactly, Andrew. Chilled. I'd
sign a petition and more, I'd be happy to circulate it among the
reading women in my bookgroups.

Kim Madsen

>From tmanning.eagle@sisna.com Mon Nov 18 11:29:12 2002

Well,

How effective was that?  Deseret Book is creating nice niches for other
authors, other publishing houses, other book stores with their narrow stance
on immorality in literature, in my opinion, .  Thank you Deseret Book for
your kindness!  I'm sure the church would love to, in some ways, perhaps
back out of part of the publishing industry, because it just gets too
problematic.  Public image is everything for them.

What about scriptural accounts of immorality?  Are those to be ignored.  Not
that authors attempt to play prophet, but what about the scriptures?  Will
DB ban the Old Testament?  DB ought to look very carefully at what they're
"legislating" or, by their definition, they might need to ban the
scriptures.  Seriously.  I quote the story of Lot and his two daughters in
Genesis 18: 30 - 36 as an example of immorality (tastefully discussed I
might add):

30. And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two
daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar; and he dwelt in a tent,
he and his two daughters.
31. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is
not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that
we may preserve seed of our father.
33. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went
in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor
when she arose.
34. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the
younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father; let us make him drink
wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve
seed of our father.
35. And they made their father drink wine that night also; and the younger
arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when
she arose.
36. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

This is only one of many scriptural rendurings of immorality.  What do
Mormon writers think about the notion of publisher as prophet?  author as
prophet?  and the roles that authors and publishers play in the marketplace?
How will other publishers and distributors be able to work past this tight
niche DB is backing themselves into, to try and also reach the
"conservative" audience DB claims they're marketing for?  If there is such a
large audience that will only buy DB publications, what does that say about
Mormon readership?  How will authors reach them if their books contain
immoral actions, explicit or implicit?

I'm with Thom Duncan:  Seagull Books is now the place.  We ought to
seriously consider purchasing through other book dealers and publishers.  If
money talks, which DB is saying it does, let us buy elsewhere, and publish
elsewhere--which authors will need to do in a lot of cases any way.  Let's
try and use this as an opportunity to open up the marketplace, local,
regional, church, nationwide.

Travis Manning

>From talleyrl@yahoo.com Mon Nov 18 21:57:50 2002

I have been lurking on this list but must say
something about DB.  I applaud the decision to be more
strict in the books DB carries.  I applaud Sheri Dew
and I wholeheartedly suppport President Hinckley and
his vision.   Do I need to read smut to make me think?
 No.  Am I somehow unintelligent or less learned
because I choose only uplifting materials?  No.  Is
there evil in the world?  Yes, everywhere, but do I
have to bring it into my home through TV, movies, or
books?  No.  

I, personally, want to go to DB, take my children and
know that I can choose a safe, uplifting book.  I
never, ever buy novels, except those that I know will
not offend me.  If I can't have the Spirit with me
while I read a book, it isn't appropriate.

President Hinckley wants us, as members of the Church,
to choose uplifting material.  If we choose smut then
we live with the consequences (as is plainly evident
in the world around us).  It's up to each of us to
make that choice.  I see DB's decision as appropriate
and in keeping with President Hinckley's, and
ultimately the Lord's, view of what we should and
should not be reading.

By the way, I don't live in Utah and was not raised in
Utah.  In fact, I grew up in a very liberal home that
contained questionable books, magazines, and TV shows,
and I remember how badly they made me feel.

Rebecca Talley

PS I'm interested to know the exact location in Vol. 7
of the brewski party that John Taylor had just prior
to the martyrdom.

>From jth208@psu.edu Mon Nov 18 22:10:26 2002

Thom Duncan wrote:

>Or maybe DB will stop selling (and printing) the Bible -- after
>all, there's that nasty story of a drunken Lot having sex with his
>daughters.  What about Church History, specifically, volume 7 where John
>Taylor mentions that he and the others in the jail prior to Joseph's
>martyrdom knocked back a couple of brewski's an hour or so before the
>mob arrived.

Don't expect this seemingly logical argument to work. I've tried it with 
some of those who DB is trying to attract with this discussion, and was 
instructed that the stories in the Bible and the Book of Mormon are not 
offensive because they are "not explicit."

Justin Halverson

>From eric@ericdsnider.com Mon Nov 18 22:31:42 2002

>Jim Cobabe:
>
>I'd say it is unlikely to make a great impression on Sheri Dew & Co, but it
>would certainly be intriguing to find out who would sign a petition
>complaining about Deseret Book's standard.  Personally I think the policy is
>timely and refreshing to see.  Who will be inconvenienced--we can buy trashy
>lurid romance novels at any drug store.  DB is a specialty house, not a
>smorgasbord.  What a grand idea for DB to be a bit more exclusive than the
>merchants who cater to every appetite, no matter how base.  I also applaud a
>move that might serve to blunt the rationalization of so many authors who
>insist on writing for the lowest common denominator.
>
>It is unusual enough in this day and age to observe any common standard of
>morality and decency.  Depictions of obscenity and illicit sex are so
>common-place in our entertainment venues that it now seems strange to
>object.  Anyone that would be so prudish as to complain about a bit of
>casual profanity--even in a facility which is supposed to be consecrated to
>God--is obviously "anal-retentive".  And a bookstore that aspires to serve
>higher thoughts--why, that's just absurd!

I don't know whether Jim has read the book in question or not, but 
he's voicing an opinion I've heard elsewhere, among people I know 
HAVEN'T read it. Basically, these people are assuming that because DB 
won't sell the book, that means the book MUST be trashy.

Well, I have read it, and it's not trashy. (It's not all that good, 
either, from a quality standpoint, but that's not the issue.) It 
addresses a gray area, a situation where there's no clear-cut right 
or wrong answer. I would hope we'd be able to read literature where 
heroes make choices we disagree with and still find some value in the 
literature.

Even more, though, I would hope we'd actually read the literature in 
question before passing ANY kind of judgment on it. If we let Deseret 
Book -- or any other organization -- decide for us what's bad and 
what's not, then the terrorists have already won, or something.

Eric D. Snider



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New "Other Side of Heaven" Book
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:31:49 -0700

Kumiko wrote:

> The Other Side of Heaven would like to announce an exciting new book
> meant for anyone who enjoyed the movie.

Guess I won't be buying it.


> The book, from Vantage Point
> Press, is entitled Journey of Faith: The Making of The Other Side of
> Heaven. This unique and visually rich volume goes beyond the typical
> making-of book to share a deeper, more personal view of the filmmaking
> process as described in the words of the filmmakers, themselves.

Does it explain why they put in the "death wish" scene?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

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http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis K. Manning" 
Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] New Essays Web Site
Date: 19 Nov 2002 00:06:47 -0800

Kathy,

There is a balance, it seems to me, with depicting in a public environment,
private and personal spiritual matters, our "personal Gethsemanes" that you
mentioned.  President Marion G. Romney, a former member of the First
Presidency, said (and I paraphrase) that members of the church would have
more personal spiritual experiences if they were more careful about sharing
the ones that they do have.

But don't get me wrong.  I like the idea of personal essays, personal
sermons, spiritual memoirs.  I just think we need to be sensitive to what we
write about.  In this day and age of the memoir--when it is so doggone
popular to tell it all--I think we need to carefully consider who our
audiences are, and our intent for sharing deeply personal and spiritual
accounts.  As a note, the Irreantum magazine that the AML publishes is
always accepting submissions for these creative nonfiction kinds of texts,
personal essays, memoirs and so forth.  So, there is that publishing avenue
already.  I would support your project, your website, as best as I am able.

Travis Manning


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: harlowclark@juno.com
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie in Film
Date: 19 Nov 2002 01:11:21 -0800

On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 02:23:11 -0700 "D. Michael Martindale"
 writes:
> Justin Halverson wrote:
> 
> > Then there's the whole debate about what it takes to get a film 
> >sold and viewed. Are we willing to submit this text to the
> > to the market of cinema?
> 
> Why not? Is the world (or the Bible) worse off for all the 
> adaptations of Bible material that have occurred?


I remember a comment about James M. Cain, author of The Postman Always
Rings Twice (haven't seen the noir original or the remake). Seems a
reporter was visiting him one day and commented wasn't it a shame what
Hollywood had done to his novels. Cain graciously replied, "No, they're
right there on the shelf."

I don't know the story of what Hollywood did to his novels, but in June
1994 we were in Hagerman, Idaho, visiting Donna's sister's grave (drank
kerosene when she was two, and her father didn't know to have her drink
lots of water rather than to make her throw up--that may have been the
trip where we found Elma May's grave) and there on the grocery store
bookrack I found a copy of the 1943 Avon paperback reprint of _Double
Indemnitty_, complete with the "Save a bundle a week. Save some boy's
life logo," with the Eagle, wings spread, holding a tied up bundle of
newspapers in his talons. At the bottom is a ribbon saying, "U.S. victory
WASTE PAPER campaign." Next to the logo, a statement, "This book is
manufactured in strict conformity with Government regulations for saving
paper."

The store owner gave me the book. I read it because I remembered a clip
of Jimmy Cagney doing this wonderful fast monologue from the movie, about
how the insurance company wasn't going to be able to get out of paying
this claim. I don't know what else the movie is like, but I'd love to see
it for that scene alone.

I think Sue Grafton may have taken part of the inspiration for _'A' is
for Alibi_ from _Double Indemnity_. (Been too long since I read Grafton.)
Anyway, we got home that night and saw live footage of O.J. bucking his
white Bronco down the L.A. freeways.

Harlow Clark

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: OmahaMom@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 19 Nov 2002 09:07:21 EST

I love some of the new hymns, loved some that disappeared with the new green 
book, love some of the protestant hymns that I used to sing when I wasn't LDS 
(even though I know that doctrinally some of them are anywhere from a little 
to a LOT off base).  I think we're progressing, but not everybody is at the 
same speed.

Several years ago when we were in Idaho, we did a Christmas choir concert and 
did Christmas songs from around the world and featured many different ethnic 
numbers, including a Hebrew folk song "Matai Yavo Hameshiach"  (When will the 
Redeemer Come) which of course isn't technically Christmas but reflects a 
longing for the advent of the promised Messiah.   We did another choir 
concert which included the Hebrew song: El Yivneh Hagalil which will really 
stir the blood if you get people singing from the heart.  "God will build the 
Galillee, Blessed is He who builds the Galillee."  Some of the BYU men's 
choirs have done a male version of it, but we sang a five part version that 
included women's voices.  Because the only way I'll sing a solo or duet is if 
it is in Hebrew, because most of the music is minor key, unfamiliar, and 
they'll never be able to tell if I make a mistake because of it, my husband & 
I even sang a Hebrew hymn: Ani Ma'amin in Sacrament meeting at the request of 
the music chairman. Translated it means "I believe with perfect faith that 
the Messiah will come, and if he delays his coming, yet I believe."  We 
translated it for the congregation before we sang.

One of my BYU wards had an individual play a classical guitar number for an 
intermediate number once...and our ward here in Omaha has sometimes featured 
flutes & harps.  (Alas, my daughter will not likely get to play her bagpipe 
in Sacrament meeting next year when she progresses to the pipes, as Amazing 
Grace isn't typically done in LDS meetings, but she might get asked to do her 
violin sometime.)     

I get frustrated at people who sing all the songs at the same 
pace--resembling funeral dirges--to me that's not reverent, but dead.  But 
some of that is the chorister, some the organist, and sometimes the 
congregation who has gotten into a rut and trying to change their habits is 
like moving a sitting elephant.  But still, I think that there are many 
congregations that are making progress.

For those with talent to write lyrics and put them with music...go for it.  
Maybe it isn't all Sacrament meeting material.  There's lots of us who pop 
LDS  musicians into the cassette recorder or DVD player while driving, doing 
housework, etc.  Music feeds the mind--expands the consciousness--and music 
is a very powerful drug.   If we get discouraged because of a few setbacks, 
the songs won't be written and something precious will have been lost.  

Karen Tippets  




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pdhunter@wt.net
Subject: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:36:19 GMT

James Coburn, the non-LDS actor best remembered by LDS film
historians for his starring role as Porter Rockwell in the
1995 TNT movie "The Avenging Angel," died Monday at age 74
of a heart attack.

In "The Avenging Angel", Coburn's co-star was Tom Berenger,
who played a fictional LDS bodyguard alongside Coburn's
portrayal of the historic folk hero/bodyguard to the
prophets Porter Rockwell. Screen legend Charlton Heston had
a smaller role as Brigham Young. "The Avenging Angel"
features a surprisingly well-balanced and sympathetic
portrayal of Latter-day Saints, considering the fact that
the filmmakers were not LDS and the film is set in a
somewhat wild and occasionally violent Western milieau.

Film buffs also remember Coburn for his roles in "The
Magnificent Seven" and "Our Man Flint." He won a Best
Supporting Actor Oscar in 1998 for his role in "Affliction."

- Preston Hunter




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mary Jane Jones" 
Subject: [AML] Re: New Hymns
Date: 19 Nov 2002 09:35:48 -0700

Just to illustrate a different viewpoint.....

>> When I
>> was music chair, I was told we could have no sacrament meeting solos =
that
>> sounded like Negro Spirituals--which is a really stupid rule.).

>Oh, so it's not just my old singles branch president.  I was assistant =
choir
>director, I was helping put a Christmas program together, and I'd found =
this
>great arrangement for five male voices (four parts and a soloist) of =
'Mary had
>a baby'.  And our branch president nixed it!  I was so bummed!

I've sung spirituals in several wards, both in Utah and here in South =
Carolina.  So far no one has told me I couldn't.  Also, my husband is a =
classical guitarist, and we perform together quite often.  We've been =
asked many times to perform in church, and have yet to run across a bishop =
or branch president that wouldn't allow him to play guitar (and we always =
asked first). =20

> I'd like some non-European songs.

I can speak from my experience in Thailand and Korea. To my knowledge, =
there aren't any native Thai spirituals or hymns, even Buddhist ones.  =
There are Buddhist chants, but to my understanding they are not used in =
worship the way Christians use hymns.   In fact, Thai monks don't sing at =
all.  My husband, who was raised Buddhist, tells me that the monks =
consider singing to be too worldly.  The chanting they do is for meditation=
, not worship.  Korean hymns are all adapted from Western Protestant =
traditions.  There is folk music and "classical" or traditional music, but =
it is considered either entertainment or art - never spiritual.  Nowadays, =
there may be some uniquely Korean Christian hymns that have recently been =
written, but they would be Korean adaptations of a Western tradition.=20

Mary Jane Ungrangsee




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: RE: [AML] Tooting My Musical Horn
Date: 19 Nov 2002 10:06:22 -0700

Well, Margaret Young, even if you change your name, your sales of _Heresies
of Nature_ won't soar. You probably already know this, but that book has
been banned from Deseret Book as well, sez an inside source.

I wonder, has Deseret traditionally carried any Signature fiction?

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 19 Nov 2002 10:37:55 -0700

Several people have written in on this thread, and I appreciate everyone's
comments.  It's all had meaning to me.  I guess I'm just frustrated.  It's
like everyone talks, but no one wants to do anything.  Everyone want to go
to Church and read about truth and love.  That's like looking in a mirror to
see the reflection in the chrome bumper of a car.  I need to get to
work--looking at reflections isn't going to help.

>From what I've gathered everyone says all truth is related and Mormons
believe all truth . . . well, that's the theory.  That does make me feel
more comfortable, though, knowing that if we really believed what we say we
believe I wouldn't feel like a foreigner among the Mormons.

"Isaac C Walters" wrote:

there is a gap between what we preach in the church and our practice.  (AND)
Specifically how that should happen in the church, I don't know yet.  But it
is something that I want to find out more about.

"Me Again" Wrote:

What will happen is people named Kim Madsen will volunteer to teach yoga or
T'ai Ch'i or Ch'i Gung or Feldonkries in their wards.  In ten years there
will be foresighted Bishops who notice there are a lot of sick people in
their ward.  And they'll notice there are crazy people too.  Either way
they'll notice people are suffering--needlessly.  They'll make official
callings to Kim Madsen, and she'll go around to different wards teaching.
In twenty years there will be traveling "medicine shows", kind of like road
shows.  Some people will get stake callings, and they'll go around and do
total or partial healings (some healings take a long time and a lot of
effort).  I'm pretty sure about all of this, because it's already
happening--except for the official recognition part.

There are some pretty amazing people on this list.  Kim Madsen is at least
four of them--maybe more.

Paris Anderson






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" 
Subject: [AML] Church Music (was: New Hymns)
Date: 19 Nov 2002 10:53:14 -0700

--> Tracie Laulusa wrote: I have wondered why the early church declined
to use hymns from other religions.

Many of the hymns in our hymn book come from other religions.  The only
thing that I have heard about hymns from other religions that are not
included in the hymn book is that they were not included because the
lyrics were not "doctrinally correct" or in some cases, did not help
maintain a level of reverence which is appropriate for a Sacrament
Meeting (see below).  Other hymns that are included have had the lyrics
changed in the LDS version to make them "doctrinally correct".
Certainly the early saints had to use hymns from other religions in
their meetings, because they didn't have many of their own to choose
from - especially until Emma Smith compiled the first hymn book.  Also,
several of the hymns in that first hymn book came from other churches,
so I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say that the early
church declined to use hymns from other churches.

--> Margaret Young wrote: Of course, I would really like some good
traditional spirituals in the hymnbook (and permission to SING THEM.
When I was music chair, I was told we could have no sacrament meeting
solos that sounded like Negro Spirituals--which is a really stupid
rule.)

--> And Robert Slaven added: Oh, so it's not just my old singles branch
president.  I was assistant choir director, I was helping put a
Christmas program together, and I'd found this great arrangement for
five male voices (four parts and a soloist) of 'Mary had a baby'.  And
our branch president nixed it!  I was so bummed!  (still chafing at the
'no brass instruments'
rule...grumblegrumblegrumble)

As a French horn player, we used to joke that we were string or woodwind
instruments in response to the "no brass instruments" phrase in the
handbook, since the valves on our instrument had both cork and strings
(unlike any other brass instrument).  But as a brass player, a composer
and also having studied the Psychology of Music as part of my PhD
studies at UCLA, I have come to understand why the handbook and
therefore most bishoprics are extremely careful about what kind of music
is performed in sacrament meeting.  Certainly any music that is played
must help maintain a higher level of reverence in that meeting than in
most other meetings, such as firesides, etc.  The challenge in writing a
guideline for music in sacrament meetings is that the bishop and his
counselors may or may not have a good background and understanding of
music, so you have to write that guideline in a way that is clear and
measurable to a musical novice.

While I do not think anyone is saying that other kinds of music,
including Spirituals, are not good music, or even that they could not be
performed in a way that would allow the reverence of the meeting to be
maintained, I can understand why a bishop would be cautious about
allowing such music to be performed in sacrament meeting.  The concern
is where do you draw the line and say "this music is taking away from
the spirit of reverence in the meeting?"  That is why ward choirs are
encouraged to perform hymns from the hymn book.  Granted, the Holy Ghost
can and does certainly help in making those decisions about what should
and should not be performed in Sacrament Meeting.  But one of the
reasons the church will often take the conservative route is how do you
explain to one member that he cannot perform this other Spiritual the
way he is performing it because it detracts from the spirit of the
meeting when he just heard someone else perform another Spiritual in a
way that was appropriate?  It's much simpler and easier just to draw a
clear and conservative line and avoid such problems.  And are we really
worse off for being overly cautious about maintaining the reverence of
Sacrament Meeting?  There are plenty of other venues for performing and
enjoying other wonderful kinds of music, and when it comes right down to
it, Sacrament Meeting is not meant to be a concert.

I do think that we need to educate our people, especially our youth,
more about the effect that music has on us emotionally - the
psychological effect beyond just the lyrics.  I don't know how many
firesides about music I've gone to where the speaker has talked about
bad lyrics in music and entirely ignored the music itself and the
messages it sends.  Why?  Because it is hard to talk about and to
demonstrate.  It's much easier to talk about the lyrics since people can
read the words and see clearly what is there.  I am not saying there is
not a time and a place for almost any style of music.  But we do need to
be more aware of the messages the music sends, just as lyricists and
composers alike should be aware of how the music can change the meaning
of a song, without changing a single word of the lyric.

I cite as an example the soundtrack album from "The Singles Ward".  It
has been immensely popular - a best-seller at Deseret Book - and I'd be
the first to say that there are some very creative treatments of the
hymns and primary songs included in the album, and that I thought that
for this particular movie, these treatments were very appropriate in
concept because in a couple of places, they helped to advance the story,
being quite illustrative of the main character in the film actually.
However, upon listening to the CD separate from the film, I was struck
how the music changed the message of these songs without changing a
single word of the lyric.  Suddenly the singer who sings "I belong to
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" changed from a noble
child of God to a hip, streetwise, even worldly person, and the rest of
the songs also introduced an energetic night life feel, suggesting the
poorly lit bustle of a night club or even the deadened senses feeling of
a smoky back room.  I had to wonder to myself if the well-intentioned
musicians who recorded these songs really thought about how the music
changed the message of the songs or at least commented on the lyrics
bringing new levels and meanings that the original composers had never
intended.

And I think, going back to the subject of Sacrament Meeting, that we
have to be just as aware and careful about not just which songs we bring
into that meeting, but in what spirit we perform them.  This applies
equally to the hymns in the hymn book as those songs we bring in from
other sources.  I think our leaders are aware of this.  That is why they
are so cautious in the handbook and why I applaud a bishop who is
equally as cautious.  In that particular meeting, it is the Spirit that
matters, not the opportunity to perform a particular song that we like.

Thomas

----------------------------
"Of course, there should be a structure, an architecture to any score.
It's not a piece here and a piece there.  It has to be thought out.  You
can't approach each cue as a separate piece of music." - Jerry
Goldsmith, composer
 
Contact info:
Thomas C. Baggaley
Composer
9446 Fox Hunt Drive
Sandy, Utah 84092
Tel: (801) 942-3580
E-mail: thomas@baggaleymusic.com
 








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Barbara R. Hume" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Essays Web Site
Date: 19 Nov 2002 11:56:00 -0700

This sounds interesting to me, and I'd like to contribute. But knowing me, 
I'd be likely to put off the actual writing long enough to be less than 
useful!  I've done some writing in this area, but I've always put it in the 
form of fiction.


barbara hume





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Angela Hallstrom"
Subject: Re: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 19 Nov 2002 11:43:40 -0800



I graduated with a degree in English from BYU in 1994.  I had a wonderful
experience in the English department, and had three teachers in particular who
inspired and motivated me:  Leslie Norris, Eugene England and Darrell Spencer.
 

As far as I am aware, Leslie Norris is not a member of the church, but he
filled his classroom with such humility and joy and love for language and
people that his course was the highlight of my day.

Eugene England helped me find the literary value of my Mormonness.  It was
through him that I discovered the worth of the stories Mormons had to tell the
rest of the world.  I remember him as being so proud to be a Mormon.  He
helped me feel that way, too.

Darrell Spencer changed my life.  (I know that sounds a bit hyperbolic and
overdone . . . but he did.)  I doubt he would even remember me, but I took two
classes from him, and never before or since have I had a teacher so dedicated
to his students.  We would turn in papers and he would return them with two
pages--single spaced--worth of comments and suggestions.  He challenged us to
think and grow--but my faith never felt challenged or threatened in a
confrontational way.  What I learned in his classes informed my own teaching
after graduating, and continues to inform my writing.  And he was a good,
humble, truly nice guy.

I don't know a lot about the politics of BYU.  I live in Minnesota and take
care of my kids and write and occasionally read this list.  But it makes me
sad to think that the people who made my BYU education such a valuable
experience would no longer be welcome (excepting Leslie Norris.  Last I heard
he was still teaching at BYU.  But I think I'm right that he's not LDS).  

I'm astonished that a student would take offense because Margaret Young
mentioned her respect for Gene England, a man who was once (to me) the heart
and soul of BYU's English Department.  How can this be?

Do I ever want to move back to Utah?????

Angela Hallstrom 





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Essays Web Site
Date: 19 Nov 2002 12:38:01 -0800

I, for one, would welcome it.  I'm just not the person who would know the
nuts and bolts of how to put it together,
so please keep us posted and consider this firm encouragement from at least
one list member!

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner 
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon Movie Casting Call
Date: 19 Nov 2002 13:54:53 -0800

Since I was the one who brought up the question concerning the non-union
requirement in the casting call, I'll address that part of this post.
Mr. Rogers seems more than honest and generous in what is being offered to
the actors working on this production.  My only concern about this
trend is that it might eliminate some actors who work regularly, are not
household names, but who are required to be members of SAG because
of how often they have worked.  I'd hate to see good talent turned away
because of union membership.  Since he brought up working
with the venerable Charlton Heston I'll assume an agreement was negotiated
and reached concerning his pay as he is and has been a very
active member of SAG having served as both vice president under Ronald
Reagan and a number of terms as its president and participated in the
negotiations in the early 1960s that guaranteed actors being able to
received residuals, especially in television productions.  SAG has something
called "Rule 1" and expects its members not to work a non-union production
unless they are paid union scale.  As a long time member I'm sure
Mr. Heston kept that rule on the production he worked with Mr. Rogers on.
So I would hope something could be worked out with other
actors who are in the same postion.  I believe someone on the list mentioned
the non-union proviso may have been removed from the casting
call and if so, great.  I want to see this be a top-flight production with
the best talent available-union and non-union.  And I want this for future
productions down the road to realize the dream many of us have for "Mormon
Cinema".

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner 
Subject: [AML] Lecture on Blacks & the Priesthood
Date: 19 Nov 2002 14:08:40 -0800

I have permission from Marvin Perkins to forward this to the AML list =
for those in the Southern California area who would be interested in =
attending his lecture.
Marvin is Director of African American Relations for the LDS church on =
the So. Cal Public Affairs Council and Mission Leader of the Genesis =
Group.  He gave
this lecture recently at a Southern California fireside and it was =
amazing and enlightening.  It clears up a lot of misconceptions that are =
still out there and unfortunately
still being passed around.  Marvin would really like to educate people =
on this and get the word out so he can spend more time with his wife and =
newborn baby
and get more African Americans interested in hearing the Gospel and =
enriching the rest of us with their spirit.  As we say around =
here-Marvin is da man.

So please make it out to this if possible and if I can get a copy of his =
talk, I'll forward it to the list.

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA =20

----- Original Message -----=20
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:18 PM


Friends;
=20
For those who are interested, I will be giving a lecture on Blacks & the =
Priesthood this Thursday at 7:30 pm November 21st at CSLA Institute of =
Religion (5181 Cavanagh Road, Los Angeles, CA 90032)=20
=20
Marvin Perkins
=20
Director African American Relations
Southern California Public Affairs Council


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cathy Wilson 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 19 Nov 2002 14:55:20 -0700



> I  wonder how
> that injury affects spirituality?  It's a hard one.
>
> Paris Anderson
>

In one of the TV shows we saw on this, it said that people with injuries or
malfunctions of the right parietal area can sometimes have intense spiritual
experiences without warning. In other words, they get the experience because of
activation of the area theoretically due to the injury. Interesting. It can't be
bad :).

Cathy





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 19 Nov 2002 15:18:16 -0700

Isaac, are you the guy who did the amazing adaptation of C.S. Lewis's _The
Great Divorce_ in BYU's Nelke theater?  The guy who helped shape up _Dear
Stone_ in the WDA workshop?  If so, I'm so thrilled to have you join the
list.  And if not, gee, your post is great.  Welcome.  I'm suspecting
you're the brilliant man I'm remembering, though.

[Margaret Young]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 19 Nov 2002 14:50:26 -0800

I agree with ever single post on this list. I find some of the rules as =
"interpreted" (have never seen the "rule book" - don't want the bosses =
job, either) rather frustrating and in most cases stifling.=20

I gave a talk a couple of years ago at a young man's missionary farewell =
(one of my son's friends) and the Bishop was adamant with me. I had to =
give the talk on the topic I was assigned by him. I told him I respected =
his inspiration and instruction (he was a fairly new Bishop at the time) =
but also reserved the right to follow inspiration regarding the topic. =
Not go off topic per see but to go in the direction I felt inspired. He =
told me to make sure to stick to the topic he assigned and I told him I =
would do as directed (by the Spirit - under my breath of course). Turned =
out on the day of my talk the Bishop was called out of town suddenly and =
I gave my talk as "directed by the Spirit". I never heard any complaints =
or gasps from the congregation, Bishopric or the Bishop when he returned =
the following week.

Funny thing about that talk was immediately after I gave it I also had =
to run to the airport to catch a plane to Dallas on Company business =
(left the meeting right after I finished). God moves in mysterious ways =
sometimes and rules get modified (but not fast enough in my opinion). =
Also, I think some rules are hold overs. Like the one my old Stake =
President said about not having marital relations on Fast Sunday. Where =
is that in the Handbook of Instructions?

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gideon Burton 
Subject: RE: [AML] Spiritual Memoirs
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:17:29 -0700

Along these lines I suggest the highly readable spiritual memoir,
Traveling Mercies by Anne Lamott (Pantheon, 1999). I believe this to be
a great model for spiritual autobiography--very readable, accessible to
those not of her faith, humorous, endearing, and filled with a sense of
the writer as a person of profound faith (if otherwise a bit unusual in
her history).  Read a review at Rambles: A Cultural Arts Magazine
(http://www.rambles.net/lamott_mercies.html).

Chris is right. As Mormon we ought to pay close heed to the growing
success of this genre. If Anne Lammott's highly unorthodox Christianity
can communicate so well to Christians, a Mormon should be able to.

Gideon Burton


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Willson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] The Role of the Reader
Date: 19 Nov 2002 17:56:12 -0800

Thom Duncan wrote:

>Hearding people into the fold should
> never be the sole reason one creates art.  In fact, I would go so far as
> to say that it should never be a reason at all.

I agree, but perhaps it can be a hoped for result that the reader be at
least be enticed to look in our direction with a question or two.

Regards,
Bill Willson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "ROY SCHMIDT" 
Subject: [AML] More Authors at Pleasant Grove Book Fest
Date: 19 Nov 2002 16:18:48 -0700

Since I sent my original post, I have been advised that additional
authors from Cedar Fort will be attending the festival. They include
Marilyn Brown, David Ridges, Julie Wright, Shannon Guymon and Jeff
Call. As it now stands, a total of 35 authors will be present. 

Once again, the event is this Friday, November 22, beginning at 6 pm
in the Pleasant Grove Junior High School, 810 North 100 East in, of
course, Pleasant Grove.

I hope to see you there.

Roy Schmidt




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kumiko" 
Subject: [AML] Box Office Report Nov. 15 02
Date: 19 Nov 2002 19:29:00 -0600

Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors

Weekend Box Office Report  (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross)

Weekend of November 15, 2002

Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com

[If table below doesn't line up properly,
try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.]



Natl  Film Title                Weekend Gross
Rank  LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor  Total Gross Theaters Days
---  ----------------------------- -----------  -----  ----
 3   The Santa Clause 2             15,102,078  3,346    17
     Cinco Paul (screenwriter)      82,517,083

13   Punch-Drunk Love                1,210,367    867    38
     Actors/characters:             16,500,392
         David Stevens,
         Nathan Stevens,
         Michael D. Stevens,
         Jim Smooth Stevens (James Smooth)

47   Master of Disguise                 59,829    104   108
     Perry Andelin Blake (director) 40,322,713

62   Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure   19,283     10   647
     Scott Swofford (producer)      13,626,401
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)
     Sam Cardon (composer)
     Stephen L. Johnson (film editor)

64   Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man   18,820      5   927
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   14,320,097

68   Jack Weyland's Charly              13,449     13    52
     Adam Anderegg (director)          503,441
     Jack Weyland (book author)
     Janine Gilbert (screenwriter)
     Lance Williams, Micah Merrill (producers)
     Tip Boxell (co-producer)
     Bengt Jan Jonsson (cinematographer)
     Aaron Merrill (composer)
     Micah Merrill (film editor)
     Actors: Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliott,
        Adam Johnson, Jackie Winterrose Fullmer,
        Diana Dunkley, Gary Neilson, Lisa McCammon,
        Randy King, Bernie Diamond, etc.

77   Galapagos                           8,181      5  1116
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   13,819,334

84   China: The Panda Adventure          4,662      6   479
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    2,946,240

108  ESPN's Ultimate X                     748      3   192
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    4,196,623

110  The Other Side of Heaven              408      1   339
     Mitch Davis (writer/director)   4,719,533
     John H. Groberg (author/character)
     Gerald Molen, John Garbett (producers)
     Steven Ramirez (film editor)


HARRY POTTER TAKES THE DOUGH - Well, it was a given that "Harry Potter and
the Chamber of Secrets" would come in at number one this weekend. The only
question was how much would it take in its first weekend? (over $88 million)
No one else was even close to that number. Still, "The Santa Clause 2"
co-written by screenwriter Cinco Paul, took in a respectable $15 million,
landing the #3 spot for the weekend. To demonstrate Potter's dominance in
the box office, after 17 days in the theaters, SC2, which can still be
considered a successful blockbuster so far this holiday season has taken in
$82.5 million total - $5.5 million less than what Harry Potter took in after
just three days. Still "Chamber of Secrets" did not outperform its
predecessor, since "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" took in over $90
million in its first weekend. An early indicator that SC2 has "legs" is that
in its third weekend it is still playing in 3,346 theaters - a drop of only
six theaters from last weekend, and only four screens less than its opening
weekend. Meanwhile, "I Spy", which opened the same weekend in a comparable
number of theaters, has already dropped to 2,611 theaters and fell to the #8
spot this weekend.

TRY THE OTHER SIDE (AGAIN) - "The Other Side of Heaven" returned once again
to the box office report this week, playing in a single theater and grossing
$408. No word has been released yet about the long-awaited release of this
film on video and DVD.

ADD ECLIPSE - Here is a truly awesome report of the Eclipse Film Festival,
written by Adam Mast. The report includes reviews of films by Latter-day
Saint filmmakers: Eric Hendershot's new "Clubhouse Detectives" feature,
"Roots and Wings" by Christian Vuissa and Maria Perez, "Simplicity" by Chet
Thomas and Darrin Fletcher, and "Summer House" starring Michael Buster (of
"God's Army" and "Out of Step" fame): http://www.zboneman.com/events.shtml

HANDCART TO REACH REXBURG - "Handcart", Kels Goodman's historical feature
film about the Martin handcart company, will open in Rexburg, Idaho (home of
BYU-Idaho) this Friday, Nov. 22nd. The movie goes to other states
(California, Arizona, Texas, etc.) in the new year.

RELEASES OF LDS-THEMED FEATURE FILMS DOUBLING EVERY YEAR - This is merely an
interesting observation... In 2000 just 1 LDS-themed feature film was
released: "God's Army." Then in 2001 this doubled to 2: "Brigham City" and
"The Other Side of Heaven". In 2002, the number again doubled, to 4: "The
Singles Ward", "Out of Step", "Jack Weyland's Charly" and "Handcart." In
2003, all signs indicate that the number should double again, to at least 8:
"The R.M", "The Work and the Story", "Suddenly Unexpected," "Day of
Defense", "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" (same target market, although
technically the characters aren't Latter-day Saints), Gary Rogers' Book of
Mormon movie, "The Best Two Years of My Life", and probably one or two more
-- perhaps "American Grace" or "Anxiously Engaged." So... if the number of
LDS-themed feature films doubles every year, and the total number of movies
released remains constant... By the year 2012 ALL movies released in the
United States will be LDS-themed feature films. Daily Variety will merge
with LDSFilm.com, "Entertainment Tonight" will be broadcast from the
Conference Center, Johnny Biscuit will be hosting the Academy Awards, and
Steven Soderbergh will be begging Dave Hunter for the chance to direct
"Church Ball 3." It will be pure movie Nirvana.

A LENGTHY LITTLE PIECE ON BILLY BARTY - This is very exciting. There is a
lengthy, in-depth article about Billy Barty in Meridian Magazine. Barty is
one of history's most influential Latter-day Saint film personality. To this
day he remains the most important Little Person in the history of film and
television. He was also an important civil rights advocate and the founder
of Little People of America. A devout convert to the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints, he was a high priest when he died. Barty was an
above-the-line star in feature films that grossed $100 million domestically,
and appeared in dozens of other movies in small roles, but he may have been
even better known as a TV personality. Our sincere thanks go to Meridian
Magazine for this excellent article, which will help Church members become
more familiar with Barty, who truly was a giant of a man. The article is at:
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/exstories/021115billy.html

ROCCO'S FLY BOYS SHOULD ROCK! - Here is a short article, with some great
stunt flying photos, about the new movie "Fly Boys", being directed by ROCCO
DeVILLIERS (!!!). Rocco previously directed the direct-to-video film "Only
Once," which can be found in Latter-day Saint Christian bookstores
everywhere. Rocco also directed the feature-length action film "Pure Race."
Interestingly enough, Greggory Peck, the PRODUCER of "Only Once" spoke last
week at the LDS Film Festival. Rocco is an awesome director and we can't
wait to see "Fly Boys." We tried to bring attention to this director's work
beginning over 2 years go. We're glad to see him at the helm of a new
feature.

DON'T FORGET FORGOTTEN VOYAGE - Scott Tiffany, award-winning documentary
filmmaker, screened his latest documentary, "Forgotten Voyage," as the
opening film at this year's LDS Film Festival in Provo, Utah. This
documentary, which tells of the Latter-day Saint sea trek started the
California gold rush, won Best Documentary at the Salt Lake Film Festival
2002. And the film took top honors at the Yellowstone Film Festival a few
weeks ago by receiving the "Grand Geyser Award." We've seen the film, and it
is a well-produced documentary, well deserving of the awards and accolades
it has received. "Forgotten Voyage" is available on video in Latter-day
Saint bookstores and online.

LIAHONA FILMS, IS A NEWLY FORMED PRODUCTION COMPANY BASED IN... NEW
JERSEY?!? - http://www.liahonafilms.com/  There's a short film by Jeff
Profitt titled "The Suitcase" which you can download:
http://www.liahonafilms.com/Movies.html Yes, it was filmed in NEW JERSEY?!?
(Preston lives in Texas. State law requires him to pronounce it: "NEW
JERSEY?!?" Of course, he's still trying to convince Thomas that Texas is The
Other Zion. Thomas wants to know if Preston needs a passport when he comes
to visit Utah as some other Texans have told him.)

LEAVING BOUNTIFUL - A new TV movie was shown last week in Canada about a
Mormon splinter group in British Columbia. "Leaving Bountiful" (Saturday,
Global 7 p.m.) was based on the true story of Debbie Palmer. Bountiful is a
community in British Columbia where members of a group that split from the
mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints during the 19th
century practice polygamy. Palmer was a plural wife but when and had
multiple husbands, but when she realized that her third husband has designs
on her 13-year-old daughter, she filed a complaint with the RCMP, set fire
to her house in Bountiful and fled with her children. A newspaper review in
The Globe and Mail noted: "The program takes an unusual approach. It takes
the viewer through Debbie Palmer's life as she has lived it and through her
self-propelled re-education. It isn't lurid. It's sympathetic to Palmer and
her once-strong belief in her Church and its laws."




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gkeystone@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] Book of Mormon in Film
Date: 19 Nov 2002 21:56:02 EST


Eric Samuelsen's post on this topic reminded me of my testimony and=20
confession Fast Sunday last in our ward.  I mentioned briefly the growth of=
=20
my testimony over the last 40 years.  My reading of the Book of Mormon has=
=20
gone through three major changes of emphasis since I was 19 and gained my=20
initial witness of the Joseph Smith "story" through an undeniable witness of=
=20
the Holy Ghost.  I keep learning new ways to read the Book of Mormon and in=
=20
fact all other literature. =20

For me the Book of Mormon was first a story as it seems to many people the=
=20
first time through.  Fortunately, or unfortunately, I went on a mission=20
before the "raised bar" of last General Conference and did not read it much=
=20
prior to my mission and did not gain a testimony it first but the Joseph=20
Smith story first.  I grew to love the doctrine of the Book of Mormon on my=
=20
mission, however, because my mission president and his wife had been a study=
=20
group with President Benson, years before he became the President of the=20
Church, and spoke with great power as did his wife about the doctrine of=
 this=20
most correct book ever written. =20

After returning from my mission I shortly became Elders President and=20
discovered that most of the Elders in my ward still didn't read it or much=
=20
else in those days of a very low level of reading of scriptures in the=20
Church.  (I'm continually grateful we have improved as a Church in this=
 area,=20
though not all have.)  Anyway, I taught most of the lessons as Elders=20
President for some time because I was the only one reading until others=20
started to read the Scriptures and the lessons too.

But to my point.  For most of 30 years I taught Gospel Doctrine Class in=20
nearly every ward we moved into.  It was a great and daily feast through the=
=20
Book of Mormon as doctrine.  I almost totally ignored the story line totally=
=20
in my private thoughts and in my public discourse for this 30 year period. =
=20
Then three years ago, I ran into an old friend, an author who got me into=
 yet=20
a third major way of reading the Book of Mormon.  I began to liken it unto=
 my=20
self in terms of story or experiences that these Mesoamerican peoples lives.=
 =20
I began to picture myself walking with Lehi and his brothers and working on=
=20
the boat and praying with Enos or as Enos on his mountain top.  I saw myself=
=20
not only with those whom Christ visited with but being healed of some malady=
=20
as one of the 1500 to whom He first appeared in the Land Bountiful.   As=
 this=20
book changed my life again I even went on several tours to the lands of the=
=20
Book of Mormon and walked literally where they walked, sailed on waters were=
=20
they likely sailed, even ate fish from the same waters where they probably=
=20
fished! =20

I now had three reasons I read this great literature, the greatest book ever=
=20
written.  Even its original translation punctuation marks, "And it came to=
=20
pass" have recently been given added meaning to me beyond my mission=20
presidents wife reading of current puncuation marks in the current versions.=
 =20
These experiences have not only changed for my bettement and joy how I read=
=20
the Book of Mormon but how I read everything!=20

I still read for the witness and warning that I originally received of the=
=20
spirit.  I still read and thrill with the clear yet deep startments of=20
doctrine it contains.  But now stories, even fictional stories, as well as=
=20
history, moves me I think the way those who went to the effort to write=
 hoped=20
they would.=20

Dr. Terryl Givens in his book By the Hand of Mormon-The American Scripture=
=20
that Launched a New World Religion suggests yet a fourth way and reason to=
=20
read the Book of Mormon I'll not go into in this already too lenghty=20
response.  But it is an application of what I learned in a four hour=
 Regional=20
Meeting with a visiting Apostle some 5 years ago when he taught local=
 leaders=20
how to receive revelation through our reading. This kind of reading between=
=20
the lines and such will I believe bring us to the point where we will be=20
literally able to experience, in the Lords time and whey, the very things=20
that the Prophets and prophets who gave us the Book of Mormon experienced=
 and=20
saw. =20

Speaking of doing the Book of Mormon in film.  I would like to see truely=20
great movies, as all of the other arts, that move my in all four of these=20
ways and even others I may not have experienced to the fullest as yet. =20

I have wondered for my whole life why King Benjamins talk, given him by an=
=20
angel, does not change me and us as it changed all who heard it the first=20
time.  Maybe you had to be there?  Did we loose something in the=
 translation?=20
 Do we not know how to read the Book of Mormon?  Can we learn?  What indeed=
=20
is the responsibility of the reader of this book or any book?  Or to any=20
movie goer?  And to authors or movie makers? =20

To Erics last point about the "cheesifying" of action sequences by Living=20
Scriptures and others.  I sat down with our "learning disabled" son one=
 night=20
to watch a borrowed living scriptures animated video about my favorite Old=
=20
Testiment Prophet Elijah.  (I wonder some times who really is learning=20
disabled, though this was before I'd even learned how to read books my third=
=20
way.)  But this movie moved me in a very surprising and powerful way as I=20
began to "see" on the screen what I had not been able to see in my minds=
 eye.=20
=20

I still love Isaiah, especially like this morning when I have it read to me=
=20
out loud on LDS.org.  But I look forward to any and all ways that movie=20
makers choose to use the doctrine, stories, messages, history, lives and=20
witness, warning, and all of the other elements put there by Father through=
=20
his editors of the Book of Mormon.  But please don't leave out the stories. =
=20
I now love them too!

Glen Sudbury


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Barbara R. Hume" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:31:50 -0700

At 10:41 PM 11/18/02, you wrote:
>My mom often talked of all the hymns she had grown up with in the LDS
>hymnbook which had been removed, and about 10 years ago found a Baptist
>hymnal at the Atlanta church were Dr. King preached. She chose her 10
>favorites from that book and produced an album of them entitled "My Lord,
>What a Morning," with Greg Hansen doing the arrangements.
>
>John Perry

I have that album. I really like it.

barbara hume, former Baptist






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Levi Peterson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Tooting My Musical Horn
Date: 19 Nov 2002 20:23:19 -0800

----- Original Message -----

I wonder, has Deseret traditionally carried any Signature fiction?

Chris Bigelow

When The Backslider first came out in 1986, the main Salt Lake Deseret Book
store carried it under the counter, the term used, I believe, for having it
in stock in case someone asked for it. After a year or two, however, they
stopped doing that.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: gkeystone@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New Essays Web Site
Date: 20 Nov 2002 00:39:59 EST


To Kathy,

A web site for publishing essays on this topic sounds interesting and 
valuable.  With all the modern methods of communicating it seems we 
communicate less and less about things that really matter to ourselves.  If 
we don't have the chance to communicate it is very hard to clearify even or 
especially our own visions.  It is often or even generally in the sharing 
that a testimony is gained.  This is likewise true of other "revelations" to 
us.  It helps me to share with my journal which I have kept more or less 
regularily for 35 years.  But another audience would probably help me and 
many others to write better which would help us and possibly even others. 

Good idea.  Besides I've grown tired already with the very poorly written and 
terse posts on e-mail and most web sites yet don't want to read entire books 
online either.  I like, love, real books, having had a love affair with 
literature long before this new medium of e-books came along.  

Glen Sudbury 


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 19 Nov 2002 22:50:59 -0700

Glen Sudbury wrote (to Paris Anderson):

> Great art is often produced by those who have suffered and struggled
> physically and metaphysically, body and mind.  Church members and the body of
> the saints have suffered much of body in these latter days.  I wonder however
> if we have suffered enough in mind to produce the great literature for which
> we hunger on this AML site and in our private lives.

I'm not sure what this means. I'm not sure on a number of levels.

I don't know if "we" have suffered enough to produce much of anything, but I
know a fair number of individuals (who happen to be Mormon) who have suffered
more than enough in their personal lives to tell deeply powerful--perhaps even
great--stories of what it means to have those unique and personal experiences.

I know Mormons who have suffered crippling poverty, grotesque injustice,
grievous bodily injury, public humiliation, political upheaval and alienation,
racial violence, and spiritual disenfranchisement. I know Mormons who have been
wrongfully accused and convicted by both secular and Church courts. I know
Mormons who have suffered physical and emotional abuse, and others who have been
ostracized by both family and their community for bad reasons.

Mormons as individuals are not immune from the ugly things life has to
offer--nor are we more prone to it than anyone else. So I always have a hard
time with the idea that "we" have not suffered enough to produce great
literature. Some of us have. So to me the question is not whether we've suffered
enough, but whether we're willing to face up to the real suffering we *have*
known as individuals (and even as a community) and tell the stories honestly and
forcefully.

As Margaret Young wondered at the AML Writer's Conference a couple of weeks
ago--have we given ourselves permission to tell the stories that have harrowed
our souls and tested our hope? Because that's the only limit, in my mind--giving
ourselves permission to speak the truth as we know it, and to risk the fact that
others' experiences can be different yet equally true.

There's an idea reflected in Mormon culture that we're too content to know pain,
that as American Mormons we're too affluent to know real want, that we're just
too pampered to experience real hardship. But I don't buy it. It's a form of
self-flattery, of cultural laziness. Pain comes in an infinite variety of
packages and takes an equal number of shapes. The question to me is whether we
are willing to expose our private pain to others, whether we are willing to
share the personal and intimate struggles we have to live and strive and
struggle to know both ourselves and our god. Are we willing to make ourselves
the bad guys of our own stories?

Epic sweep is not necessary to create great literature. Personal struggle,
introspection, a desire to share our experience, and an ability to arrange words
pleasingly is. That and giving ourselves permission to write, to dare to be
spectacularly wrong. Because only then can we ever hope to learn how to be
simply and obviously right--as great literature is.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Slaven 
Subject: [AML] re: Epiphanies
Date: 20 Nov 2002 00:38:19 -0800

)
> Robert Slaven wrote:
> "Of course, the above doesn't prevent my favourite hypothesis:  God designed
> our brains with the above response intentionally, and then stimulates it
> when he wants to talk to us (or the Holy Spirit does that, whatever, it's a
> detail).  When someone claims to have seen something that doesn't fit with
> our gospel (Mohammed's receiving the Qu'ran, people seeing the Virgin Mary,
> people thinking they were abducted by aliens), it represents one of three
> things:
> 1) God/the Holy Spirit stimulated that area in hopes of giving some
> revelation to the person, but they didn't "get it";
> 2) Some natural process stimulated that area -- a biochemical glitch in the
> person's brain, a quirk of some existing electromagnetic field in that
> location -- and the person made whatever sense of it they could*;
> 3) Maybe Satan knows how to stimulate that area, too."
>
> This is me now:
> Unfortunately, my impression upon reading Robert's words was as follows: a
> person who has a spiritual or metaphysical experience which doesn't fit into
> the Mormon experience is one of the following: (1) spiritually out of tune;
> (2) they had a glitch in the physical workings of their body; or (3) they're
> subject to manipulation by Satan.
>
> I am sure Robert did not mean to imply such a statement.  However, the
> implication was there and (the most unfortunate part) my experience with
> Mormon culture has made it a plausible reading of Robert's statement.
>
> I've been watching this thread and the "Y'all Should Get Out More" thread
> for the last few days.  Both have been very interesting.  The (potential)
> attitude I see in the above passage from Robert's post is my reason for
> believing Mormons ought to get out more.

That's funny you should read me that way, Amelia.  %-)  I'm about the
least-Utahn most-gotten-out-more least-orthodox Mormon you're likely to find.
After spending my youth as a devout atheist, I joined the Church because
(gasp!) it was a religion (here I read "model of the universe") that actually
made sense.  Baptised in Victoria BC (where I got my B.Sc.), I've spent most
of my 'church life' in the Yellowknife Branch in the NWT, which on the one
hand is the largest branch in the church (we're talking about 1,000,000 sq.mi.
here) and OTOH is one of the weakest 'twigs' in the church.  Definitely
'mission field'; heck, Yellowknife isn't even in a district, much less a
stake.  I now live in an area that's been a stake for 10 years, but which most
Utah Mormons would definitely call 'mission field'.  Utah for me is 'nice
place to visit, but....'

Anyhow, you're right, I didn't quite mean to imply what you thought I might be
implying above.  I mean, (3) is obviously a possibility for anyone who's had
some kind of 'vision'.  But for (2), rather than 'glitch in physical workings
of body', I'm meaning more external stimuli.  In this case, the example I used
was 'if creaks and groans in the earth set up weird fields that cause weird
lights that some interpret as UFO's, maybe those same fields could tweak
someone's "God spot" and trigger some kind of "vision", perhaps of aliens.'
Certainly internal stuff could be an issue; how much of what schizophrenics go
through is related to some kind of damage to or quirks in that area of their
brain?

Also, I didn't mean to imply that the above applied to someone who had "a
spiritual or metaphysical experience which doesn't fit into the Mormon
experience"; rather, I meant "doesn't fit into the gospel."  And, as I hope we
are all aware, "the gospel" is not the same as "the Mormon experience".  I
believe that people around the world have spiritual experiences all the time
which are likely in harmony with the gospel but not necessarily in harmony
with the Mormon experience.  How many good, honest Christians are there out
there who have had prayers answered, often in miraculous ways, yet in ways
that might surprise or startle your average Mormon?  Or, for that matter, good
honest non-Christians?

In fact, one of the key problems I see with 'Mormon culture' (as opposed to
the gospel) is that kind of blinkered narrow-mindedness.  ObLiteraryTie-In:
Two friends/neighbours/acquaintances/cow-orkers, one Mormon, the other a
decent person but not Mormon.  The Mormon is in a bit of a spiritual rut or
dead spot, feeling blase about his/her testimony, sort of stuck in neutral.
An issue relating mostly to the non-Mormon but in which the Mormon is involved
results in a remarkable spiritual experience for the non-Mormon.  The Mormon
now wonders 'What gives?  I'm the one with the knowledge of the truth and
membership in the true church, he/she isn't!  How come I didn't get something
like that?"  An investigation of what faith really means, of what revelation
really means, etc. etc.  Want some real fun?  Set that in a Utah
ward/neighbourhood where this happens to the only non-member family who lives
within the ward boundaries.  Watch the reaction of his Mormon neighbours.  Who
will write it off as a Satanic counterfeit?  Who will embrace truth and faith
even if it comes to someone whose underwear says 'Stanfields', not 'Authorized
Pattern'?

Anyhow, Amelia, to wind up, I understand and appreciate your concerns, and I
appreciated your post here.  You made a lot of great points, and I learned a
few things.

Robert
**********************************************************************
Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven                         www.robertslaven.ca
...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too
'Man is that he might have joy--not guilt trips.'  (Russell M. Nelson)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Perry" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 20 Nov 2002 08:11:59 -0800


On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 07:57  PM, katie@aros.net wrote:

> Another guy we talked to in our ward wanted to set us up with a real 
> estate
> agent, and in describing him he said, "He's not LDS, but..." Being from
> Oklahoma, we've grown up not worrying about a person's religion except 
> when it
> comes to dating.  We were frankly taken aback to discover that anyone 
> would
> prefer to do business with people they knew were Latter-day Saints.  
> But
> apparently this is a fairly common thing.

Like most of the "sins" of LDS folks, this one is a shared behavior 
with many people in many denominations.   Just last week I answered a 
phone at Prime Recordings from a Protestant minister ordering choir 
music by Orrin Hatch and Janice Kapp Perry.   I assume that the 800 
number didn't clue him in that he was calling Utah.    He said "maybe 
you didn't know Hatch is a Mormon, but... he's a good man anyway."   I 
wanted to say "Lots of us try to be," but I just took his order and 
sent him his music.

:-)

Steve




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http://www.StevenKappPerry.com





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] Re: New DB Policy (comp 4)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 18:13:20 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

[MOD: I am very concerned that we are starting to talk to each other about 
this issue in terms that could lead in unfortunate directions for our 
mutually beneficial and stimulating discussions. On the one hand, I want us 
to feel free to speak passionately on this issue, which cuts to the very 
core of some of what we talk about on AML-List. On the other hand, I also 
want everyone on the list to feel that his/her opinion is welcome, and that 
regardless of the passion of other people's opinions, there is a value 
placed on each individual's contribution and worth.

Perhaps an impossible goal. But please, please: As we write, as we read, as 
we respond, let us do so with utmost respect for each other, and a will to 
read one another's contributions with a great deal of personal charity.]

>From ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu Tue Nov 19 12:18:01 2002

Funny article.  But let's be serious for a moment.  What the heck is going =
on with this Evans DB thing?

Let me paraphrase the policy as I understand it:  "Deseret Book, as a =
business decision, believes that Richard Paul Evans The Last Promise is =
sufficiently offensive that its mere presence on our shelves will have a =
deletorious effect on our business.  We believe that sufficient numbers of =
readers will be so offended by the fact that we're carrying it that we =
will permanantly lose their business.  This is not a moral decision.  This =
is a business decision."

This is lunacy.  It's nonsense.  As I understand it, Evans' book, which I =
haven't read, depicts someone tempted to commit adultery, who chooses not =
to.  It's very difficult for me to see how large flocks of potential DB =
readers are going to find that offensive.  I know better than to underestim=
ate the capacity of Mormons to be offended by stuff, but still.  This is =
just silly. Surely, surely, most people, when they go to a bookstore, go =
there looking for some specific book, or kind of book, and don't much pay =
attention to other books that are sold there that don't interest them.  I =
mean, we all have books we don't like and wish weren't published.  Do we =
boycott Barnes and Nobles because they carry the new biography of The =
Rock?  =20

Hence, an alternate paraphrase:  "We want to carry books of genuine worth =
and value.  Rick Evans can't write.  So we're not carrying his book, as a =
business decision."

Now, Rick Evans reminds me a bit of the Wizard of Oz, who, when accused by =
Dorothy of being 'a very bad man' replied, 'oh, no, my dear.  I'm a very =
good man.  I'm just a very bad wizard.'  Fact is, Rick can't write.  He =
gives large amounts of money to shelters for battered women.  He is an =
honorable and decent man, who gives huge amounts of time and energy to =
various charities.  He just doesn't write very well.  His work is =
sentimental in the most pejorative English prof usage of that word.  It's =
cliche-ridden.  His dialogue doesn't sound like anything any actual human =
being would ever say.  That's all okay; John Grisham is also a decent and =
honorable and charitable man, a fantastically successful writer, who, as =
it turns out, also can't write worth squat.  Both of them will do far =
better than I will at the Bar of Judgment.  And both write stories that =
lots of people like and want to read.  No harm no foul.

But the point is, DB carries lots of bad writers, and plans, as far as I =
can say, to continue to carry them.  So, no, that paraphrase doesn't wash.

Try this one: "We at Deseret Book are trying to position ourselves in the =
marketplace as a bookstore carrying only books containing a certain =
specific content.  Fiction makes people uncomfortable enough anyway.  We =
thought by making this announcement, which is, on its face, nonsense, we =
would pander to and appeal to our presumed readership.  They'll so admire =
someone 'taking a stand against immorality' that they'll flock to our =
stores in droves."

Cynical, but quite likely.  Taking a stand against immorality, even a =
nonsensical and hypocritical stand, does play in Provo.  A lot of folks in =
this neck of the woods aren't likely to look very deeply at a statement =
like this one.  They've positioned themselves as arbiters of moral values, =
and even though taking that stand ends up tacitly attacking the moral =
values of a brother in the gospel, tough.  Rick's a big boy, and he'll =
survive.

At the same time, this is Sherri Dew we're talking about here.  I've =
always thought of her as one of the good guys.  No, I think one last =
paraphrase is in order:  "Folks, someone above us made us do this.  A =
member of the Twelve, say, someone that high up.  I know our press release =
is idiotic and nonsensical.  But we had to say something."=20

And that's how I think this has to be understood.

Eric Samuelsen

>From bmdblu2@attbi.com Tue Nov 19 18:37:42 2002

I should hope that my first novel, should it ever get published, would be
banned by Deseret Books. This event, if it is well publicized, I am sure
would skyrocket the sales of the book to near bestseller status. Such a
blessing I could not imagine in my wildest dreams.

Sam Clemens said the banning of his "Huck Finn," was the best thing that
could ever happen, or something to that effect.  Banning has often been
responsible for the success of books.

I think the Deseret Book Stores serve a wonderful purpose for LDS readers,
and I think they have a right to decide what their customers want. In going
through each book they put on their shelves for sale to their customers,
they are providing a valuable service. They are insulating the naive ears
and minds of their customers from the unholy writing of those who feel the
need to write the truth, so that readers can learn from reality. I wonder if
while they are doing this service for their customers, they will also censor
those parts of the Bible which exhibit scenes that are not in keeping with
the customer's moral standards.

Regards,
Bill Willson

>From ameliaparkin@hotmail.com Tue Nov 19 20:21:20 2002

Rebecca Talley wrote:
I applaud the decision to be more strict in the books DB carries.  I applaud 
Sheri Dew and I wholeheartedly suppport President Hinckley and his vision.   
Do I need to read smut to make me think?   No.  Am I somehow unintelligent 
or less learned because I choose only uplifting materials?  No.  ... I, 
personally, want to go to DB, take my children and know that I can choose a 
safe, uplifting book.  ... President Hinckley wants us, as members of the 
Church, to choose uplifting material.  It's up to each of us to make that 
choice.  I see DB's decision as appropriate and in keeping with President 
Hinckley's, and ultimately the Lord's, view of what we should and should not 
be reading.


this is amelia speaking:
I would say simply this: this position implies that we are to *choose* 
carefully what we read, see, watch, partake of in relation to the arts.  I 
agree wholeheartedly.  I very firmly believe that we are, as individuals, to 
choose carefully, following the promptings of the spirit, what we will or 
will not read.  After all, what we read becomes a permanent part of our 
psyche.  But I would argue that while this position seems to stress the 
importance of choosing carefully, it does not actually uphold the principle 
of choice.  Instead it only argues against making a choice that it would 
consider wrong.  It instead argues that someone else should make the choice 
for us--that an institution, in dictating what is or is not morally 
acceptable, is doing a social good. it is rendering the world somehow 
*safe*.  This kind of *safe* world, a world in which the individual does not 
have to carefully consider his or her own decisions but rather can depend on 
an authorized institution to make that decision for them, is not safe.  it 
is the most dangerous world of all.  it is a world in which no one has to 
think because they don't even have to decide if they want to ingest what is 
presented to them.  taken to its extreme, in this world we don't have to 
decide what food is healthy (the institution offering it is the one 
responsible, right? because if it weren't healthy they wouldn't offer it, 
right?); the individual wouldn't have to choose even something so important 
as who to marry because the institution would validate the choice so it 
didn't have to be carefully considered.  What more dangerous world could 
there be?  Fine, sometimes we might choose a book that looks good.  The 
blurb on the back cover doesn't insinuate that it contains something bad.  
The picture on the cover is wholesome enough.  the story, while emotional 
and even somewhat upsetting is not immoral.  until we get half way through 
and then we encounter something that sent the spirit scurrying.  who is 
forcing us to continue?  no one!  we can exercise our ability to choose 
every bit as much at that point as at the first point, the point of 
purchase.  and should be blame the bookstore that allowed us to make the 
purchase in the first place?  who should we blame?  NO ONE!  it is no one's 
fault that I find something morally unacceptable that my neighbor finds 
morally acceptable.  this is the crux of agency.  i can choose, but so can 
my neighbor.  and i must think as i choose, always think as I choose.  i 
cannot relegate the act of *thinking* to someone else, no matter how busy i 
am or how susceptible i am.  it is only my responsibility to choose for 
myself, and no one else's.  no you do not need to read smut to make you 
think.  no you are not unintelligent, or narrow minded, or thoughtless, or 
any other bad thing, because you only choose uplifting material to read or 
watch or eat.  you are only these things if you leave the choosing to 
someone else, if you refuse to do the thinking for yourself.

I'm sorry for the rant but this is exactly why I CARE about the fact that DB 
has chosen to follow such an unfortunate policy.

And please, let's not forget: this decision of DB has absolutely nothing to 
do with morality or religion--only with business.  so why is it that 
religion immediately becomes involved?  This decision has nothing to do with 
the church and simultaneously EVERYTHING to do with the church.


Jim Cobabe wrote:
I also applaud a move that might serve to blunt the rationalization of so 
many authors who insist on writing for the lowest common denominator.


amelia again:
Yes, we should applaud any action that will help us rise above writing to a 
lowest-common denominator.  But how is writing only reaffirmations of what 
has already been accepted as truth any different?  it has only changed the 
common denominator, the lowest common denominator.  we do not escape writing 
to the lowest common denominator until we refuse to accept it, regardless of 
whether it is explicit sex or easy confirmation of an accepted social value. 
  let me be challenged just a little.  this is why i love so many of the 
classics.  they make me think--outside the box, not inside the box.


Eric Snider wrote:
Basically, these people are assuming that because DB won't sell the book, 
that means the book MUST be trashy.

Even more, though, I would hope we'd actually read the literature in 
question before passing ANY kind of judgment on it. If we let Deseret Book 
-- or any other organization -- decide for us what's bad and what's not, 
then the terrorists have already won, or something.


amelia again:

thank you eric.  you have stated very succinctly what I have not been able 
to state.  This is what I object to.  suddenly the bar has been raised in a 
way i find unfortunate.  now we are authorized not only by our own prejudice 
but by an institutionally sanctioned prejedice to denounce literature as 
"smut" or "trashy" when it is nothing of the sort in someone else's opinion. 
  I would not insist that someone must read an entire book before deciding 
it is not uplifting for them personally or that it is not the kind of book 
they want in their home.  you can read two pages and decide that.  i made 
such a decision about _Tess of the D'Urbervilles_ as a 15-year-old.  seven 
years later, I reapproached the book and found it to be one of the most 
beautiful pieces of literature I've ever encountered.  Yes, you can 
determine you don't want to read a book or own a book without reading it 
thoroughly.  But please, do not make your personal choice a mandate for the 
world unless you have read the entire work and can defend that mandate.

amelia parkin

>From tlaulusa@core.com Tue Nov 19 20:23:09 2002

----- Original Message ----- >
>
> I have been lurking on this list but must say
> something about DB.  I applaud the decision to be more
> strict in the books DB carries.  I applaud Sheri Dew
> and I wholeheartedly suppport President Hinckley and
> his vision.   Do I need to read smut to make me think?
>  No.  Am I somehow unintelligent or less learned
> because I choose only uplifting materials?  No.  Is
> there evil in the world?  Yes, everywhere, but do I
> have to bring it into my home through TV, movies, or
> books?  No.

The use of the word "smut" in this post really bothers me.  What
exactly is smut?  I guess I know when I've found it for myself, but I
am sometimes astonished at what some other people call smut.

I'm not going to defend Evan's book.  I haven't read it.  I will
eventually.  I've read all of them.  I don't think they are
particularly well written, but they are short.

But according to the DB guidelines, as represented in the articles
posted to the list, most great literature will be banned from their
shelves.  Literature like Les Miserable, and works by Charles Dickens,
which have been quoted from by GAs in General Conference will not meet
their standards.  Any book that tackles any subject other than
perfection will be banned from their shelves.  How realistic is that?

And "uplifting".  What is uplifting?  One person's uplifting is
another person's gag-me-with-a-spoon.  What on earth is uplifting
about the same tripe being rewritten a hundred different ways?

One question I have posed to myself and my ward council recently is,
when are we (the big general we-the-membership-of-the-church) going to
stop pretending that there aren't any problems, that everyone in the
church is lovely, that we can "make it" on our own, and don't need the
Savior--except to get over that last little hump into the Celestial
Kingdom.  Almost an after thought.

There is something incredibly beautiful and uplifting to me in a story
where someone has struggled and overcome, been trampled and stayed
faithful, been abused and found their way through.

Yes, we should choose to read what is uplifting, but have you listened
to what's being quoted by the general authorities?  Don't you think
they read that which they consider uplifting?  It is a variety of
material.  Not a bunch of saccharine, sappy, make-believe, all's well
in Zion, tip-toe-through-the-tulips.......stuff.

Deseret Books is free to make their decision.  I happen to think it is
a bad one.  I am disturbed by the long term ramifications.  Yes, there
are other publishers, but where will they sell their books?  DB has an
incredible market share.  And as Rebecca implied, most members of the
church will see this as a directive by Pres. Hinckley.  I have already
heard that opinion in OH.  I don't know if it is a directive from
Pres. Hinckley.  That is apparently not the spin DB put on it.  But
because of the close association of DB and the church most church
members will read it that way.

Tracie Laulusa

>From jcobabe@hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 00:26:15 2002

Eric, I've not read Evans' books, other than _Christmas Box_.  No apologies 
from me for my failure.  His writing simply doesn't seem to stimulate much 
interest in me.  With me this is a matter of personal taste.  I reserve the 
right to formulate my own personal preferences--uniquely my own, I believe.

I have not assumed that the controversial new book is necessarily trashy, 
nor anything else about it, nor do I find that others with their own 
preferences or tastes have necessarily assumed anything about the book.  
Neither I do not know Sheri Dew. I believe I have refrained from making any 
sweeping assumptions about her and her company at Deseret Book.  I was 
simply expressing my own speculative interest in the matter being discussed.

What I do see is Deseret Book attempting to assume a higher sense of 
responsibility for the implied official Church sanction that accompanies and 
promotes the content of every book they sell.  They apparently have decided 
that Deseret Book has not compelling interest in pursuing business that 
deals in the "gray areas" of literature, as you say.  It appears to me that 
they are attempting to become more exclusive dealers of "white", to extend 
the metaphor.

I am confident that Deseret Book realizes full well that they cannot dictate 
to writers what is "right or wrong" to write, nor do I believe they have any 
interest in engaging in censorship.  But I hope they are beginning to 
understand that they can, with full propriety, define and control exactly 
what Deseret Book as a business will--and will not--sell.  This, contrary to 
the hue and cry of the prevailing knee-jerk reaction, is not censorship, but 
a business decision.  And, I believe, a commendable one, popular ridicule 
and sarcasm notwithstanding.

Perhaps it is academic to point out that the prevailing reaction being 
expressed in this forum is entirely predictable.  It is very easy, and 
somewhat entertaining, to push such issues over the edge of the slippery 
slope.  In expressing my thoughts in terms of "trashy" literature, I 
probably pushed the slope from the other end.  I suppose Sheri Dew and 
associates could have forseen this controversy, even with minimal foresight.

Perhaps they are simply stupid fools.  Maybe they are grossly arrogant.  It 
could be that they have badly misjudged the situation.  Had the benighted 
bumblers of Deseret Book only a tiny fraction of the wisdom that blesses so 
many of their instant detractors, surely they would act more intelligently.

Or perhaps they are actually gifted with some fragile far-sighted vision 
that naysayers and dissidents will never share.

Jim Cobabe
jcobabe@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~jcobabe

>From andrewrhall@hotmail.com Wed Nov 20 01:55:04 2002

>From the replies I have seen so far, nine people voiced their
support of a joint petition, three were disturbed by the DB
policy but were ambivalent about the good a petition could do,
and four supported DB's decision.  So that is enough opposition
to do away with any idea of an institutional AML-list petition.
I encourage those interested to send in their own letters or
email, however.  It sounds like there is a flood of comments
going on in Utah, on talk radio and the like, so I doubt we'll
have a big impact, but it can't hurt.

I agree, DB is a business, which needs to respond to its
customers.  It probably wants to refocus as a mainly Church-
related materials bookstore, rather than general products.  I
really do not care if they do decide not to stock Scarlet
Letter or whatever, I can't imagine that more than a very
small percentage of Mormons shop for non-Mormon related products
there, or are influenced in their decisions on general literature
by whether DB carries the material or not.

Rather, my main concern is DB as an outlet for Mormon
literature.  I have no problem with them picking and choosing
what to put on their shelves.  My fear is that the Evans case
shows that at least in the case of books with Mormon authors
and/or characters, they are taking an ultra-conservative
position on appropriate content, which could preclude any chance
to show the gospel in action in people's lives, examine
weaknesses in our culture, or examine difficult moments from
our history.

I can see what Scott Parkin is saying, they have never been
known for boldness in these areas in the past, why should it
matter now.  I just fear that it could get even worse.  If it
were not for the power DB wields in Mormon publishing, I would
not care, but it is the 900 pound gorilla in the room.  When
people want to buy Mormon literature, that is often where they
go.  Their website is the most comprehensive place to order
Mormon literature online, and it has the most reviews outside
of AML-list.  If it really is just a business decision, I'd
like them to know that some frequent book buyers would like for
them to trust our judgment more.

Send your letters.  I just know of their basic email address,
dbol@deseretbook.com, you Utah people might know of phone numbers
or addresses.  I will try to craft a general letter expressing
some of my concerns tomorrow, and post it to see if anyone wants
to sign it.  Or I would welcome anyone else’s draft (Kim's was
great, but it was too personal for a general letter).

R.W.: You did not make up the thing about the Scarlet Letter;
it was in the Tribune article, not the Deseret News.  It said,
"Though the process has just begun, store employees will
eventually comb through all 250,000 titles in the stores'
inventory to remove other books that might flunk the new
standards, Dew said. Classics such as The Scarlet Letter or
Jane Eyre will get the same scrutiny as new books under
consideration."

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Perry" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:40:50 -0800


Hmmm (as opposed to "hymn"),

I know I don't have time for this, but my eyes always light up when=20
music is discussed on AML--since there exists no comparable list for=20
LDS composers and songwriters.   Guess I'll make time...

On Monday, November 18, 2002, at 08:25  PM, Nan McCulloch wrote:

> Steve, the reason most of us don't write hymns is that we lack=20
> experience in
> the genre, but you and your mother must have written hymns.

As politely as possible, I would like to point out that _no one_ has=20
experience in any genre until they write their first attempt.   Then,=20
bad or good, they have experience in that genre.

At some point Eliza R. Snow and W. W. Phelps and others just wrote=20
one--spit it out on paper for the first time.  In writing we learn by=20
doing.   At 20 I thought  I'd try to write a musical at age 40, full of=20=

experience.   At  30 I realized that I wouldn't be any more able in 10=20=

years so I just got busy and started.    Sure, I read a pile of=20
playwriting books, had readings, listened to a million shows and songs,=20=

and learned tons from all this.   But none of that compares with the=20
wonderful and painful process of sitting there making myself do it hour=20=

after hour, day after day, knowing how much of it was awful and would=20
need rewriting later.   So what?   That's how writing works.   On my=20
40th birthday it was fun to realize that I had written several=20
full-length musicals and some shorter theatrical works.   The quality=20
of these works may be a separate matter, but by golly, I have=20
experience in that genre!

> Do you have any interest in hymn writing?  I know your mother wrote=20
> "As Sisters in Zion."

(SFX - Sound of intense gear shifting...)

Well, she was 1/2 of the team, a collaboration that spanned a century. =20=

  Here are her own words from her book "A Song of the Heart."

"As Sisters in Zion
During the time the Church Music Committee was soliciting and evaluating
hymns for the new hymnbook, our family was completely involved in=20
writing,
producing, and touring the United States with our missionary musical=20
It=92s a
Miracle. Thus I did not write or submit any hymns for consideration.=20
Toward
the end of the selection process, however, I received a letter from=20
Brother
Michael F. Moody, chairman of the Church Music Division, kindly=20
offering me
an opportunity to provide a musical setting for the hymn =93As Sisters =
in=20
Zion.=94
The three-verse text for this hymn had been extracted from a ten-verse=20=

poem
by pioneer poet Emily H. Woodmansee, which was published more than a=20
century
earlier in The Woman=92s Exponent newspaper under the title =93Song of =
the
Sisters of the female Relief Society.=94 I was impressed that her words=20=

from
way back then were still appropriate for women in the Church today.
Since the publication of the hymnbook, I have enjoyed hearing this hymn=20=

sung
with enthusiasm in scores of stakes throughout the Church. Doug and I
frequently speak at stake Relief Society conferences throughout the=20
United
States, and it is especially fun for me to hear him singing =93As =
sisters=20
in
Zion we=92ll all work together . . . =94 with such conviction!
While touring back East with the company of It=92s a Miracle, I received=20=

an
urgent request from Brother Moody to write an SSA version of the hymn=20
for a
women=92s chorus to sing on the Women=92s Satellite Broadcast from Salt =
Lake
City. Our touring bus was broken down, parked in a weedy vacant lot in
Philadelphia for repairs. When it became apparent we would be stranded=20=

there
for a few hours, I realized that was my only chance to complete the
arrangement quickly. I cleared away some weeds, sat on the ground,=20
leaned
against a fire hydrant, put my little battery-operated keyboard on my=20
lap,
and tried to block out the ugly surroundings and write something worthy=20=

of
the Women=92s Satellite Broadcast=97truly an experience in being in the=20=

world
but not of the world. I mailed the arrangement to Salt Lake City later=20=

that
evening.
Only in 2000 did I learn details about the wonderful pioneer poet Emily=20=

H.
Woodmansee, with whom I had cowritten =93As Sisters in Zion.=94 After =
two
separate speeches I gave in California, descendants of Emily and her=20
sister
Julia provided me with a wealth of information about the sisters, often
written in Emily=92s own words. I was thrilled to learn her story.
Emily was born in 1836, the youngest of eleven children born to Thomas=20=

and
Elizabeth Slade Hill in southwest England. She wrote, =93Even as a child=20=

I was
much concerned about my eternal salvation. . . . Hungry and thirsty for
truth, I searched the scriptures. . . . Truly I was waiting for=20
something, I
knew not what=94 (Augusta Joyce Crocheron, Representative Women of =
Deseret
[Salt Lake City: J. C. Graham & Co., 1884], 82).
At the age of twelve Emily heard the testimony of her cousin who had=20
heard a
new religion preached that claimed =93God had spoken from the heavens to=20=

a man
named Joseph Smith=94 (Crocheron, Representative Women, 83). Emily=20
attended the
next meeting and experienced a miraculous conversion from which she=20
never
wavered throughout her life. Julia, three years older, also embraced the
gospel.
Emily was baptized at sixteen years of age and given a
blessing in which she was promised she would =93write in prose and in=20
verse and
thereby comfort the hearts of thousands=94 (Crocheron, Representative=20
Women,
85). She and Julia sailed
for America in 1856, traveled by rail from New York to Iowa, and pulled=20=

a
handcart in the James Willie Company, enduring great hardship before=20
reaching
the Salt Lake Valley.
Emily bore one child in a plural marriage in which her husband deserted=20=

her.
She then married Joseph Woodmansee and bore four sons and four=20
daughters,
endured many hardships, and remained faithful to the Church to the end=20=

of her
life. She was a prolific poetess, writing hymn texts that appear in=20
previous
hymnbooks of the Church. Her unfailing faith in God=92s goodness is=20
reflected
in all her writing.
I hope she was allowed to observe as ten thousand women participating=20
in the
2000 BYU Women=92s Conference service project in Cougar Stadium sang=20
together
her now-famous hymn text =93As Sisters in Zion=94=97a direct fulfillment =
of=20
the
blessing she received in 1852.

     As Sisters in Zion
     Words by Emily H. Woodmansee
     Music by Janice Kapp Perry

     As sisters in Zion we=92ll all work together
     The blessings of God on our labors we=92ll seek
     We=92ll build up his kingdom with earnest endeavor
     We=92ll comfort the weary and strengthen the weak

     The errand of angels is given to women
     And this is a gift that, as sisters, we claim
     To do whatsoever is gentle and human
     To cheer and to bless in humanity=92s name

     How vast is our purpose, how broad is our mission
     If we but fulfill it in spirit and deed
     Oh, naught but the Spirit=92s divinest tuition
     Can give us the wisdom to truly succeed."

> My favorite hymn was sung Sunday by the MoTabs "Come, Thou Fount of=20
> Every
> Blessing."  I believe this hymn was sung early on in the church.

Great hymn, was in the hymnal right up until 1985 (remember, back=20
before the turn of the century?).  Our choir still sings=20
it--photocopied out of the old blue hymnal.

On a side note, Mom set a goal for herself to write 100 hymns (with=20
various hymn text writers) before she left with Dad on a mission=20
(currently serving in Chile Santiago West Mission).  These were=20
recently published in 3 volumes called "Inspirational New Hymns," and=20
have struck a chord with LDS congregations who are just starting to=20
hear of them.  They are sung in sacrament meetings all the time.

Steve




--
skperry@mac.com
http://www.StevenKappPerry.com






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ivan Angus Wolfe 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:39:55 -0700 (MST)


> > I'd like some non-European songs.
> 
> I can speak from my experience in Thailand and Korea. To my knowledge, =
> there aren't any native Thai spirituals or hymns, even Buddhist ones.  =
> There are Buddhist chants, but to my understanding they are not used in =
> worship the way Christians use hymns.   In fact, Thai monks don't sing at =
> all.  My husband, who was raised Buddhist, tells me that the monks =
> consider singing to be too worldly.  The chanting they do is for meditation=
> , not worship.  Korean hymns are all adapted from Western Protestant =
> traditions.  There is folk music and "classical" or traditional music, but =
> it is considered either entertainment or art - never spiritual.  Nowadays, =
> there may be some uniquely Korean Christian hymns that have recently been =
> written, but they would be Korean adaptations of a Western tradition.=20
> 
> Mary Jane Ungrangse

This is a true point - I served a Lao speaking mission, and the only Christian
hymn tradition is from a western protestant tradition.  There are no native Lao
hymns, though maybe some sontemporary composer has written a few that no one
outside of a small circle knows about.

It's a straw man fallacy to say the reason we don't have any non-western hymns
is because we're a bunch of uptight losers in the church who can't handle
anything uptempo.  Christianity is a western tradition, fot the most part.  

Even most of the African music that is Christian has western roots (albiet mixed
with the native African sounds).  

--ivan wolfe





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ivan Angus Wolfe 
Subject: Re: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:43:06 -0700 (MST)

> "The Avenging Angel"
> features a surprisingly well-balanced and sympathetic
> portrayal of Latter-day Saints, considering the fact that
> the filmmakers were not LDS and the film is set in a
> somewhat wild and occasionally violent Western milieau.
> 
> - Preston Hunter

I would disagree with that.  I saw the movie and was sure it was written by
anti-mormons. Sure, individual Mormons could be okay, but the church as a whole
was portrayed as fairly corrupt, bigoted, secretive and murderous.

Of course, I am colored by the fact it came out while I was on my mission, and
it became a stumbling block to quite a few investigators, so I may have viewed
it differently if the timing were different.

--ivan wolfe





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter Chamberlain" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Lecture on Blacks & the Priesthood
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:54:10 -0700

I'd very much like to get a copy of his lecture.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 20 Nov 2002 10:29:01 -0700

> With such ideas it is easy for some to assume that simply knowing the
Church
> is true, or the Gospel is true is supposed to solve all the problems and
> questions for all of us.

Except for the question of what to do with our creative talents that urge us
to want to write, to create something else of our own. (Yea, Glen Sudbury!
Read GHOSTS OF THE OQUIRRHS please! Your statement about being prophets of
our own is realized in those magnificent banned pages. And I MUST stop
conversing on this list as I have WORK TO DO! Cheers!) Marilyn Brown



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Dewey Remy 
Subject: [AML] Truth and Mormonism (was: Epiphanies)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 09:34:05 -0800

I have a paper due today that I am still working on, so in the true spirit 
of procrastination, I read the AML posts that have been piling up in my 
Inbox. :^)

I am particularly interested in the "Epiphanies" and  the "New Age Mormons" 
threads.  A number of the posts in these threads deal with the relationship 
of Mormonism and Truth.  Here is a simple summary of several of the 
different ways of looking at how the Truth and Mormonism that were put 
forth in some of the messages:

Mormonism and Truth:

1) Mormonism = All Truth (from the oft-repeated Brigham Young quote).
2) The teachings of Mormonism are true; other belief systems may contain 
many wonderful truths but fall short of perfection.
3) Mormonism has no monopoly on the Truth; this is a Universalist 
perspective. Truth claims made by Mormons are on the same level as truth 
claims made by members of other faiths.

1) Mormonism = All Truth:

In response to Paris Anderson's cry about Qigong's effectiveness despite 
its being outside of the Church, Linda Hyde brought in the quote by Brigham 
Young and closed her post with this statement: "if you prayed and were led 
to results through Tai Chi and other disciplines, and the spirit of truth 
was present in those results, those things are just as much a part of the 
Gospel, the Church, and the Kingdom of God, as any other."  I think that 
this is a wonderful teaching in the sense that it leaves Mormons open to 
truths and beauties which may be discovered outside of the context of 
Mormon doctrine and culture, but this idea can be problematic as well.

I'm concerned about defining Qigong and any other beneficial teaching as 
Mormonism because we do not use the word "Mormonism" in this way very 
often.  In our daily usage, Mormonism does not connote all truths from 
every scientific and humanistic discipline--it refers to an institution 
founded by Joseph Smith in the American frontier in the Nineteenth century 
and the teachings and culture associated with it. By co-opting Qigong as 
part of the gospel (as understood by Mormons), we belittle its Chinese 
cultural heritage. By claiming that we are merely rediscovering innately 
Mormon principles in Qigong, we risk dismissing other wisdom or truths we 
might be able to learn from Chinese philosophies, movements and religions. 

Even if we accept that God has chosen to reveal the healing principles of 
Qigong through the Chinese,  we might ask ourselves--why was this revealed 
to the Chinese and not directly to Mormons?

2) The teachings of Mormonism are true; other belief systems may contain 
many wonderful truths but fall short of perfection:

Robert Slaven explores the fact that people from different religious 
backgrounds have powerful spiritual experiences (what Freud calls "oceanic 
experiences") and claims that they are not from God when "someone claims to 
have seen something that doesn't fit with our gospel."  What's ironic about 
Robert's justification is that it is used by all other belief systems who 
claim a monopoly on access to perfect truth.  It is a weak argument because 
it is completely subjective and equally valid from almost any perspective. 
 Muslims could say the same things of Joseph Smith that Mormons might say 
of Mohammed: "Sure, we don't doubt that he had a genuine spiritual 
experience, but he confused what God was trying to tell him, or perhaps the 
experience was from Satan and not from God."

Oceanic experiences need a framework for interpretation. LDS missionaries 
are taught in the MTC to provide this context to their investigators: 
"Sister Rodriguez, that warm feeling of peace that you just described to 
us--that's the Holy Spirit witnessing to you the truth of our message."  If 
Sister Rodriguez doesn't feel any warm fuzzies, the missionaries will 
encourage her to keep praying and reading until she does.  How is the 
Mormon's receiving of a witness of  any different from the good feelings a 
Muslim might feel when he hears someone declare that "there is no God but 
Allah and Mohammed is his prophet" and that "Mohammed is the seal of 
prophecy" (i.e. the last of the prophets on this earth)?

On a personal note, Mormonism's claim to be special/unique in its approach 
to the truth and the corollary that other religions fall short is one of 
the greatest stumbling blocks for me: my personal experience demonstrates 
that others have equally valid spiritual experiences and claims to the 
truth.  What does seem plausible to me is:

3) Mormon Universalism

I'm not sure if Universalism is what Amelia Parkin had in mind when she 
wrote:

"I can't tell you how often I have seen members of our church dismiss the 
spiritual experiences of non-members because, clearly, they aren't valid 
spiritual experiences.  This is especially true if the person's spiritual 
experience leads them to not join the church.  Why can't we simply accept 
that we do not have a corner on religion and spiritual experience?  Why is 
it not possible that other people's spiritual experiences are not only 
every bit as valid as our own but every bit as true?"

I feel that "other people's spiritual experiences are not only every bit as 
valid as our own but every bit as true."  We have to accept this approach 
because our personal spiritual experiences and their personal religious 
experiences are subjective.  To me, this approach is the least arrogant, 
the most affirming of the religious experiences of our brothers and sisters 
upon this earth.  We've made our mistakes, but we've got some good things 
to contribute to the age-old, universal pursuit of the truth.  And because 
we don't have the whole truth, we're open to learning from the rest of you. 
 Buddhists, please teach us a thing or two about nonviolence and quieting 
our minds.  Muslims, you really know how to fast and make pilgrimages! 
Catholics, we're sorry about the "whore of the earth and the great and 
abominable Church" thing.  Blacks, we're really sorry about not letting you 
have the priesthood and go through the temple and equating dark skin with a 
curse from God for so many years.

We want members of other religions to have this kind of openess towards us. 
 I think it is natural to want the other side to understand and accept your 
viewpoint but to not extend to them the same courtesy.  Perhaps you'll 
agree that this would be a wonderful world if all non-Mormon groups who 
claimed exclusive hold on the truth admitted their humanity and 
subjectivity and opened their hearts and minds to the truth in other 
groups, including Mormon teachings.  What makes Mormonism so different from 
any other system that claims to be the sole receptacle of pure truth?

Looking back on this post, it doesn't seem to relate directly to any Mormon 
literary topic, but I believe it discusses overarching cultural themes 
which inform and influence both the creation and the appreciation of Mormon 
literature.

FWIW,

John Remy
UC Irvine







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Russell L. Hansen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Church Music
Date: 20 Nov 2002 12:52:03 -0500


---> Thomas C. Baggaley said:

"I was struck
how the music changed the message of these songs without changing a
single word of the lyric.  Suddenly the singer who sings "I belong to
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" changed from a noble
child of God to a hip, streetwise, even worldly person, and the rest of
the songs also introduced an energetic night life feel, suggesting the
poorly lit bustle of a night club or even the deadened senses feeling of
a smoky back room.  I had to wonder to myself if the well-intentioned
musicians who recorded these songs really thought about how the music
changed the message of the songs or at least commented on the lyrics
bringing new levels and meanings that the original composers had never
intended."


This is the main reason why I've been very wary of the contemporary
christian music that seems to be gaining in popularity.  (Especially the
so called heavy metal christian music...)  Certainly, some of it is very
good, but some of it blurs the line between emotion and spirit.  I know
first hand how music can evoke an emotional response that is very close
to the feeling you get when the spirit is with you.  I remember hearing
a sister comment in gospel doctrine class one sunday, "I always know
when I'm feeling the spirit because I get chills up and down my spine."
My thought at that moment was, "Wait a minute, I feel that whenever I
listen to Aerosmith, and I'm pretty sure that's not the spirit."
Unfortunately, I didn't voice that opinion at the time, but I didn't
want to be imediately contrary to this sister's opinion.  (There were
other issues between us that I didn't want to make worse...)  I also
recall coming to this realization when watching the Steve Martin movie
"Leap of Faith".  Toward the end of the movie there is a scene where a
crippled boy gets healed - for real (at least hollywood style).  It was
very moving, and I felt the chills and a warm feeling in my heart, but
at the same time I recognized that it seemed counter to what I feel when
I attend sacrament meeting.  I became aware, that for me anyway, when
it's the spirit, the warm feeling comes first, followed by the emotional
reaction of chills.  When it's purely emotional, the chills will come
first, then the warm feeling may (or may not) follow.

Tying this back into the subject, we need to be VERY careful when
deeling with emotion evoking music in church.  So many people are fooled
into thinking an emotional experience is the spirit working in them.
Certainly, sometimes it is, but also just as certainly, sometimes it
isn't.  We are taught that Heavenly Father will speak to us in our
hearts and in our minds.  Simply stated, this is our thoughts and
feelings.  If we are always emotionally charged, we'll never know when
it's the still small voice that we are feeling.

Russ Hansen


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From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Polygamy
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:22:45 -0800

Jerry Tyner wrote:
"Interesting thought would be since it was portrayed as a "test"
in the book Kelly talked about what would happen in modern times
if the same "test" was sent again? "Watch out Below!" "

Oh my HECK!! You should read BROTHER BRIGHAM by D. Michael
Martindale...oops, I fergit. It needs to get published first...I
hope some publisher type souls are following this thread. (HINT.)

Luckily enough for me, since Bro. Martindale shared his
manuscript with my bookgroup, we should have an interesting 2
hour discussion on this subject tomorrow by a bunch of Mor-women
who view polygamy with that same trepidation previously
expressed. If he survives the experience, maybe he'll share it on
the list.

Kim Madsen
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From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 20 Nov 2002 11:53:01 -0800

Paris Anderson wrote:
"There are some pretty amazing people on this list.  Kim Madsen
is at least
four of them--maybe more."

Paris, you are too funny. That probably explains my multiple
personality disorder...or is it ADD...or is it the onset of
menopause and not knowing WHAT the heck I really wanted to be
when I grew up and worrying now it's too late...(she types while
she is supposed to be making rolls for the sit down dinner for 60
the YW are putting on tomorrow night to honor the lives of single
people in her ward, while doing the laundry, trying to fit in
some writing time and feeling guilty that she slept in this
morning instead of teaching yoga at 5:30 AM because the family is
passing around this cold and she is struggling with body aches
and OH MY HECK the book group is coming tomorrow at 11:00 AM and
she'll get to meet D. Michael Martindale but the house better get
cleaned up first...)

Maybe it's just my version of being anxiously engaged. And I
don't do windows.

Kim Madsen





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RichardDutcher@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 20 Nov 2002 13:55:13 EST

In a message dated 11/19/02 7:36:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, katie@aros.net 
writes:

<< When we were house-hunting, one real estate agent we talked to (a 
perfectly 
 nice fellow, by the way) opened a folder to introduce us to the house-buying 
 process, and displayed discreetly but prominently inside the folder was his 
 temple recommend.  And thus we knew that he was an active Latter-day Saint.  
He 
 wouldn't have put it there if that wasn't a way of helping him to gain 
 clients.   >>

This is messed up on so many levels! Witnessing this trick would have caused 
me to suspect this "perfectly nice" character. This would be hilarious if it 
wasn't true. Outrageous. Unbelievable.

May I please use this scene in a movie?

Richard




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: margaret young 
Subject: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 20 Nov 2002 13:00:07 -0700

Okay, I'll take the bait.  I would have been VERY surprised if Deseret
Book had decided to sell _Heresies of Nature_.  It has long been my
understanding that DB has a policy on not selling Signature books.  (And
incidentally, _BYU Studies_ won't review anything done by Signature.)
I'll even be real honest and admit that I was concerned that the advent
of _Heresies of Nature_ before the last book of the trilogy (_Standing
on the Promises_) could discredit me to some Mormon readers.  (Signature
had accepted it seven years ago.) I went so far as to talk with a Desert
Book editor about it.  Now, I haven't read Richard Evans's book, but
from what I've heard, I'd say _Heresies of Nature_ is not nearly as
morally dangerous as his--even though the illicit lovers do indeed have
sex (implicit) in my book.  In _Heresies_, however, the whole route gets
covered.  A man whose wife is paralized meets a woman who seems somehow
a moving version of his wife and falls for her.  As the story
progresses, this other woman takes steps to actually appear an exact
replica.  They commit adultery, and the consequences follow.
Ultimately, he stands up for his marriage and returns to his wife.  He
knows he will be excommunicated--or at least brought up to face a
disciplinary council--and he has already told his bishop all about
what's happened, though that confession is more a trial for the bishop,
who can't find a good answer to the man's pain outside cliches.  I
suppose the unfaithful husband reflects my own conviction that the
violation of marriage covenants somehow disrupts the universe.  Anyway,
it was controversial as a play script, and was nearly nuked before its
debut at BYU.  Eric Samuelson and I both had to go to bat for it.  But
we won.  The play was produced and my sister-in-law (the basis for the
paralized character) died two hours before we opened the show.  So her
nurses and her family all saw the play, which became a tribute to her.
(The program even included a tribute written by my husband about his
beloved sister.)  Now, why would I say that my book is less dangerous
than Richard's (as I understand Richard's)?  Because I know what it's
like to be in an abusive marriage.  (NO, Bruce Young is not abusive.
I'm talking about a prior marriage).  I don't trust ANYONE to portray an
abusive husband who doesn't really know what it's like.  It's far too
easy to demonize.  And, frankly, it's far too easy for a woman or a man
in a difficult marriage to demonize the spouse and justify a little
extramarital excursion--even if that excursion doesn't quite include
sex.  Nobody in a difficult marriage needs any encouragement--literary
or non-- to seek "companionship" outside the bonds.  It's about the
easiest temptation out there--and I'd suggest it's an easy temptation
for a writer, too.  Didn't Anita Stansfield write something similar to
Richard's book?  It seems I recall reading AML comments about her book
with a very similar plot--except that the bad spouse either died or
asked for a divorce so the better marriage could happen.  Well,
obviously, I believe in better marriages, since I have one, but I also
believe in the ethic of complete fidelity.  (C.S. Lewis responded to the
issue in an essay called "We Have No Right to Happiness" which list
members might want to look up.)  I'm reminded of another student who
visited me and mentioned that one of my colleagues showed _The English
Patient_ in class and announced that anyone who was offended by the
nudity had no right to be offended.  I responded to the student (who
hadn't been troubled by the statement but saw it as a call to
sophistocation) that the nudity in that movie happens during a depiction
of an adulterous relationship.  If I had a student whose family had been
split up because of adultery, I believe that student would have a right
to be offended by the presentation of the titilating side of it.  That
student would understand what it had actually meant to the family, what
the reprucussions had been, how the universe had indeed been disrupted.
I remember one story a student turned in (same assignment as the one I
discussed previously--where a significant event the writer shared with
another person is told from the other person's perspective) in which a
five year old child (the student herself depicted from her own memory)
tries to understand her father's explanation of why he is leaving their
home to live with another woman.  He asks her, "Don't you want Daddy to
be happy?"  Now, how does a five year old answer that?  "You mean you
have to hurt me to be happy?"  It was a poignant story.  Anyway, I would
not even try to get Deseret to carry _Heresies of Nature_, even though I
consider it highly moral, and I'm not the least bit offended that no
Deseret Bookstore will carry it.  It'll find its own audience, which
will no doubt be limited.  But I am not bothered by Sheri Dew's moral
decision either.  I suspect she heard many, many stories from many, many
women during her term in the RS General Board.

[Margaret Young]



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Newest Deseret News spin on Deseret Book
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:35:31 -0700

Deseret Book rethinks offerings 
By Dave Anderton
Deseret News business writer
11/20/02

      Deseret Book is not taking any chances when it comes to products that
may offend its customers.
      The perennial seller of LDS-based literature and music has not only
launched a new television and radio brand campaign, but also is conducting
an extensive review of its 65,000 products after new research revealed some
customer dissatisfaction.
      "We found that there were a lot of customers who had at one time or
another purchased something at Deseret Book that for them created a feeling
of distress. . . . One area where we on occasion had lost trust was we had
stocked items that did not match with the core beliefs of our key
customers," said Sheri Dew, president and chief executive officer of Deseret
Book Co., a subsidiary of Deseret Management Corp., the holding company for
the Deseret News and other businesses affiliated with The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.
      The Deseret Book survey, conducted last year by Wirthlin Worldwide, a
Virginia-based research and consulting firm, targeted roughly 350 customers
who identified themselves as practicing LDS Church members.
      "What this body of research led to was a new set of brand guidelines,
a more focused set of brand guidelines," Dew said.
      Those new guidelines will reject material that offers a sympathetic
view of behavior contrary to LDS standards or rewards immorality, Dew said.
      That policy hit headlines last week after the retailer refused to
carry Richard Paul Evans' new book, "The Last Promise," because of a passage
suggesting an adulterous relationship.
      "That's the kind of thing, it appears from what our customers tell us,
to just stand their hair on end, and it makes them not trust us," Dew said.
      However, Deseret Book, which has sold more than $2 million worth of
Evans' other products, will special-order the book for customers who request
it, Dew said.
      Jon Kofford, vice president of marketing for Seagull Book & Tape, an
American Fork-based book retailer that also carries LDS products and is a
main competitor of Deseret Book, said its 18 stores originally carried "The
Last Promise" but pulled the book off its shelves after it was determined
the book did not meet the company's guidelines.
      Unlike Deseret Book, Seagull Book will not special-order "The Last
Promise" for its customers.
      "Deseret Book is instigating a new policy, and we've always had our
policy and pulled books off the shelf before," Kofford said. "We typically
have just focused on the LDS market, and we have carried very few trade
books."
      Kirsti Gilbreath of Puyallup, Wash., said while visiting Deseret
Book's downtown store Tuesday that she has never encountered anything
objectionable at the store but expressed surprise over its decision not to
carry "The Last Promise."
      "I have other books of Richard Paul Evans. Seeing his new book out, I
would probably come here looking for it and be disappointed that it wasn't
here," Gilbreath said.
      The new policy may pose future dilemmas over what to pull off shelves.
Currently, one-third of Deseret Book's inventory is made up of products from
national publishers, including reference books like "Frommer's France 2003,"
which includes places gays and lesbians would be comfortable visiting.
      "I don't think we have gotten to that category of books yet," Dew
said. "We'll probably have to look at that, because that is the kind of
thing that potentially could offend a lot of customers."


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walters, Isaac" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:37:12 -0500



-----Original Message-----
Margaret Young wrote:

Isaac, are you the guy who did the amazing adaptation of C.S. Lewis's
_The
Great Divorce_ in BYU's Nelke theater?  The guy who helped shape up
_Dear
Stone_ in the WDA workshop?  If so, I'm so thrilled to have you join the
list.  And if not, gee, your post is great.  Welcome.  I'm suspecting
you're the brilliant man I'm remembering, though.

---

I don't think I'm all that brilliant, but thank you for remembering me
so kindly.  Yes, I am the Isaac you're thinking of.  If you're
interested in more C.S. Lewis theatre, you should look for our
production this next summer of "Till We Have Faces".  I'm very nervous
and very excited about it.  I've been thinking about this ever since we
did "The Great Divorce" at BYU.  Thanks for the welcome.




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy (comp 5)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:15:11 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

>From wwbrown@burgoyne.com Wed Nov 20 09:36:06 2002

I had another comment about Evans that got lost somewhere between submission
and list, but before I leave the list for a few months to write B.C., (I
must, you are just too interesting and time consuming to allow me the time I
need to bury myself in the wonderful BRIGHAM CITY project) I just wanted to
add one comment. Chris Bigelow cited Sheri Dew's stance:

    "It isn't an issue of good versus evil . . .That is a tension that makes
for good reading and the best classics deal with it. Our concern is if a
book makes immorality sympathetic."

    I think that's the key, all right. And I have a gut feeling Evans' book
has a shade of Samuelsen's "emotional adultery" (as in PECULIARITIES) in it.
Emotional adultery (or extreme shared comfort between people who really
shouldn't be sharing extreme comfort) is not really righteous love. The
woman should have been seeing a counselor or the bishop to tell her troubles
to. I don't know because I haven't read the book.

BUT I do want to say in parting I hope Des Book returns MY book GHOSTS OF
THE OQUIRRHS to the shelves when they see after 80 more books are gone that
I have dutifully fixed page 103. (I DID, I DID! I fixed that PAGE! But maybe
I'm glad there are 400 of them still floating around. After all, my
indiscretion got me on the "list" like my dear "twin" Margaret--and
shouldn't we be twins on the black list together, just as twins should be?
So I'm afraid in this case I am PROUD to be on the black list!)

However, I still think that I'm calling a spade a spade in GHOSTS, and I'm
hoping Des. Book will put it back on the shelves. It can't be all economic,
because they have the rest of my books, and they don't sell either. (So that
argument doesn't hold water.) GHOSTS is about OVERCOMING constant evil, and
a "prophet" rising above the weight of unnatural odds by stepping into a
crisis, sacrificing, and becoming a hero. (Someday somebody will get the
connection between Brooker and his prophet counterparts.) Come on, Des Book.
Put a "risky" book on your shelf--one that might reach Rocky Mountain
readers (Cracroft says. . . "Establishes Marilyn Brown securely among the
top Rocky Mountain writers of fiction").

Only, Des. Book, I won't feel bad if you wait until we get to the next
printing. (Here's hoping the 80 books will SELL so we can get to it. If
there are any readers out there who don't mind sacrificing themselves to
some soft Mormon porn on pabe 103, so we can get to the next printing, then
blessings on you!)

Marilyn Brown

[MOD: And another post from Marilyn...]

>From wwbrown@burgoyne.com Wed Nov 20 10:49:40 2002

The point here is that the theme of the novel is faith, repentance,
and forgiveness, not adultery.  The adultery is merely the "inciting
incident" as Marilyn Brown would describe it.

Dorothy Peterson, this was a great comment, and I would definitely say in
this novel of yours (which I have read and felt very good about giving an
AML award to several years back), that you also call a spade a spade, and if
that is the case, you can join the black list club. BLC (sounds a little bit
like BLT, one of my favorite sandwiches!) Marilyn Brown

>From rareyellow@yahoo.com Wed Nov 20 10:09:21 2002

> - ---------------------------------------
> >From Chris.Bigelow@unicitynetwork.com Mon Nov 18 10:50:46 2002
> I think it would be
> better to kill Deseret Book with kindness by continuing to review their
> books with as much generosity as possible and to do things like
> interview
> Sheri Dew in the spring Irreantum, which, last I heard, she had agreed
> to
> participate in. I think our stance toward them should be, "Maybe you
> know
> something we don't; help thou our unbelief," and that way we can try to
> keep
> some doors of communication open that a condescending petition might
> slam
> shut. By considering and respecting their policies and products to the
> highest degree possible without compromising our own integrity, maybe we
> can
> help them honor and respect some of our outlooks instead of circle the
> wagons. 
> 


I agree with Chris. I think our stance should be that we want to foster,
support and critique a diverse, vibrant, quality Mormon literature that
reflects a spectrum of LDS experience and that we are interested in
speaking to all sub-groups of the Mormon audience while at the same time
encouraging all members (orthodox, liberal, etc.) of that audience to seek
to understand the experience of others whose views and experiences differ
from their own.

I'm sure there will always be a large group of Mormon readers who reject
anything that doesn't fit their narrow definition of faith-promoting, but
I'm concerned about allowing their dichotomous brand of thinking to
prevail by reinforcing that position with things like petitions. My hope
(and suspicion---and its one that I know is shared by others on this list)
is that there is a large segment of the Mormon audience that is not quite
so rabid as the DB-focus groupers referred to in the article(s), but that
is also somewhat uncomfortable with the inclusive point of view of most of
those who view Mormon literature as a valid category. These are folks who
are not interested in the more challenging work found on the Mormon
cultural scene, who are a bit squeamish about sex and profanity and lost
testimonies, but who can accept some of that stuff if the overall context
seems 'faithful.' These are folks who may see 'God's Army' and read some
Orson Scott Card, but probably wouldn't pick up Levi Peterson (sidenote:
sorry to pick on Levi like this---but his name usually gets invoked in
these circumstance and an alternative author isn't coming to mind at the
moment). 

This audience (anybody have a catchy name for it?) is one that I think we
shouldn't shut the door on. And I think we do that if Mormon literature is
considered to *always* be equivalent to Signature Books and Sunstone. If
we can establish Mormon literature more solidly as a valid category that
encompasses a range of tastes and types, and, (perhaps more importantly)
establish Mormon literature as a valid discourse for exploration of Mormon
experience and theology (alongside the apologetics and self-help
discourses) then we might be able to capture this audience and Mormon
literature becomes a much healthier field. If not, the dichotomy prevails
and Mormon literature gets defined by those who see it as a discourse in
opposition to official LDS Church discourse.

A side issue:
Could the AML get funding for its own market research? Maybe from the
NEA/NEH? 

~~William Morris   

>From MADAIR@novell.com Wed Nov 20 14:52:52 2002

Seagull has decided not to carry Evans' book, either, which shouldn't be a =
surprise because they tend to be even more conservative than DB. By =
refusing to carry a popular title like Evans' book out of a misguided =
sense of what their customers want, the bookstores are only hastening =
their irrelevance. Market pressures are already squeezing them out. Book =
buyers have a greater selection by buying online directly from the =
publisher or through Amazon or B&N.com, and can frequently save money =
besides.

MBA

>From LSWeber@aol.com Wed Nov 20 18:19:42 2002

After reading through several of the posts on the DB decision, I've been 
trying to decide which way I lean on the matter. I came to realize that I 
really don't care one way or the other what books DB publishes or sells. 
However, I do care that DB publishes and sells books at all.

And this is why. Several years ago, before fundraising activitities by church 
organizations was stopped (except for the Scouts), our Elder's Quorum had a 
small bookstore--basically a glass-enclosed bookshelf in one of the halls in 
our building. We made enough money to fund our EQ socials and what not.

Everything was fine until a family moved into the ward, who also happened to 
run their own bookstore out of their basement. Church policy was that a ward 
or ward organization could not operate a bookstore if someone in the ward 
owned and operated a private bookstore, whether out of their home or out of a 
storefront. We weren't allowed to compete against a private enterprise. At 
least, this is what I was told at the time. If someone knows any different, 
I'd be happy to hear it.

We were in Ohio, so we didn't face the situation in the Intermountain West 
where it would be hard to find any locale without a privately owned "LDS" 
bookstore, so I don't know if the policy applied there or whether it was even 
an issue. Wards there probably had other more lucrative forms of fundraising.

So, we shut down the bookstore. Nevermind that the family hardly did anything 
with their little business. I think they had a bookshelf in the basement with 
a few books. I don't remember them promoting it at all.

The question I have is why couldn't our EQ bookstore compete with a private 
business, but the church through DB can? I've been a fledgling publisher for 
a few years now. We've put out three books and hope to put out more. We're 
starting small and hope to grow. Now, I can't hope to compete head to head 
with DB (and I'm talking more about the publishing buisiness, but the retail 
business applies as well). But why is the church in the book publishing and 
retail business at all? Surely, there are enough private publishers and 
retailers out there that the church is competing against. It may have made 
sense 60 years ago for the church to provide a publishing and retail business 
to get church-related materials to members. But why still? Why isn't the 
logic that was used to shut down our little EQ store, used to shut down DB?

I would be the first to admit that the church should publish works written by 
the General Authorities. That makes perfect sense to me. I never understood 
why many GAs published through Bookcraft, or alternately published through DB 
and Bookcraft. It would seem to make the most sense that they publish soley 
through DB. But, after that, why is it the Church's business to publish 
fiction or even theological material written by a non GA, let alone other 
forms of nonfiction? Why in the world should DB sell a copy of _Chicken Soup 
for the Soul_ when there are plenty of privately owned businesses that sell 
it?

This apparent double standard has kind of always annoyed me deep down. The 
church has over the years divested themselves of several businesses, such as 
the LDS hospital and more recently, ZCMI. It's high time they did the same 
with DB, except for publishing and selling material written by the General 
Authorities. That's why I don't care that they choose not to sell Rick Evans' 
book. I'll be happy when they choose not to sell the other 249,700 titles in 
their catalog, leaving about 300 for the General Authorities. That should be 
enough shouldn't it?

Lloyd the Lurker
[Lloyd Weber]

>From Jacob@proffitt.com Wed Nov 20 19:47:33 2002

---Original Message From: Eric Samuelsen
>
> Let me paraphrase the policy as I understand it:  

[snip]


I don't know the reasons for the policy, though my guess wouldn't be any
of the above.  When I first read Sherri Dew's statement, my immediate
thought was that it wasn't possible to uphold that policy as stated and
we'll have to see what it turns into in practice.  Frankly, it looks to
me like they'll have to indulge in selective enforcement.

What I figure to be important, though, is how we react to the news.
Petitions and boycotts are all well and good, but all that will do is
upset the upsettable and alienate the alienatable--and it won't touch
DB.  To me, I read the statement and got excited about the opening
they've just made for competitors.  They just differentiated themselves
out of a market.  *AND* tied it to *Richard* *Evans*--who, whatever his
talents, already has a following and reputation as harmless and bland.
If I were an LDS Bookstore, I'd be whooping with joy.  I'd hit every
customer in my database with a flyer touting the new Evans book with a
banner reading "Not available at Deseret Book!"  I'd probably pop a bit
of a review as well to further differentiate.

We've griped here about DB being the 900 lbs. Gorilla and that's true
enough.  And there's a certain conservatism in regards to LDS fiction
that makes people wary of sources.  Thing is, if DB holds to this new
policy for any length of time, then they've crossed an important line
and opened some room for others to be faithful without being so ultra
orthodox.  I know that I have new interest in DB competitors, now.

Jacob Proffitt




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: lajackson@juno.com
Subject: [AML] Re: New Hymns, New DB Policy, and New Wine in Old Handbooks
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:53:50 -0600

Jerry Tyner:

... I think some rules are hold overs. Like the one 
my old Stake President said about not having marital 
relations on Fast Sunday. Where is that in the 
Handbook of Instructions?

Larry Jackson:

My old stake president (who was an orthodontist, by 
profession) once said that it was ok to brush your 
teeth on Fast Sunday as long as you didn't swallow 
the toothpaste.

Neither his advice, nor your stake president's, ever 
found its way into the Church Handbook of Instructions.


Thom Duncan wonders if DB will continue to stock 
the Bible (Lot's daughters) and:

What about Church History, specifically, volume 7 
where John Taylor mentions that he and the others in 
the jail prior to Joseph's martyrdom knocked back a 
couple of brewski's an hour or so before the mob arrived.

Rebecca Talley:

PS I'm interested to know the exact location in Vol. 7 
of the brewski party that John Taylor had just prior to 
the martyrdom.

Larry Jackson:

Joseph, Hyrum, and others were in Carthage Jail.  The 
mob was assembling and was not permitting those who 
left on various errands to return.  This is John Taylor's 
account.  _History of the Church_, vol. 7, p. 101-102.

Begin quote.

Sometime after dinner we sent for some wine.  It 
has been reported by some that this was taken as 
a sacrament.  It was no such thing; our spirits were 
generally dull and heavy, and it was sent for to revive 
us.  I think it was Captain Jones who went after it, 
but they would not suffer him to return.  I believe we 
all drank of the wine, and gave some to one or two 
of the prison guards.  We all of us felt unusually dull 
and languid, with a remarkable depression of spirits.  
In consonance with those feelings I sang a song, 
that had lately been introduced into Nauvoo, entitled, 
"A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief", etc.

The song is pathetic, and the tune quite plaintive, 
and was very much in accordance with our feelings 
at the time for our spirits were all depressed, dull 
and gloomy and surcharged with indefinite ominous 
forebodings.  After a lapse of some time, Brother 
Hyrum requested me again to sing that song.  I 
replied, "Brother Hyrum, I do not feel like singing;" 
when he remarked, "Oh, never mind; commence 
singing, and you will get the spirit of it."  At his 
request I did so.  Soon afterwards I was sitting at 
one of the front windows of the jail, when I saw a 
number of men, with painted faces, coming around 
the corner of the jail, and aiming towards the stairs.

End quote.

Willard Richards wrote, "Joseph and Hyrum are dead.  
Taylor wounded, not very badly.  I am well." (p. 110)

Larry Jackson
lajackson@juno.com



________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sandra Delgado 
Subject: Feliz Navidad!!!
Date: 21 Nov 2002 05:19:45 -0500

















  

    
      

      
 

      
FELICIDADES!!!!

      
 

    		
  

  

    
      
Usted
      y su familia han sido elegidos para participar con nosotros de 8 dias y 7
      noches inolvidables, donde tendra la oportunidad de mezclar el magico
      Mundo de Disney, las exclusivas playas del sur de la Florida y el exotico
      encanto de un crucero a Las Islas Bahamas.

      
 

    		
  

  

    
      
  
        

      
para
      llamadas en estados unidos  y puerto rico
      1-786-666-5155

      
Fuera
      de los estados unidos
      001-786-666-5155

      
Su
      número
      de confirmación: R-11212

      
Para reclamar su premio llame dentro de
      las proximas 48 horas. Oferta valida para una familia. 
Horario
      de atencion de Lunes a Viernes de 9:00 a.m. a  8:00 p.m.  hora de Miami


   






-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] Newest Deseret News spin on Deseret Book
Date: 20 Nov 2002 20:38:58 -0800

If the book is so offensive, then why will Deseret Book even consider special-ordering 
it?  I don't get it.  It's not as if there's a shortage of book stores.  And there's always 
the internet.

>      However, Deseret Book, which has sold more than $2 million worth of
>Evans' other products, will special-order the book for customers who request
>it, Dew said.


------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@general.com 
or
jeffneedle@tns.net







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Help with Mormon Marketing Rationale?
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:29:50 -0700

Here's a message I recently received from my agent about my missionary
memoir proposal, followed by some material I wanted to get some input about:
 
<<<
Harper SF is VERY interested in the proposal, but will not have an answer
(unless it's a negative one) before the first week in December. Between
meetings and Thanksgiving, the bigwigs are out of the office and your
champion can't get it through before then. It's at the stage of 'first
reads' and if they pass it, it will go to the editorial board. She was a bit
concerned that Heather was too prominent in the story, but I assured her you
were open to editorial direction...
Here are the questions she's been asked: will Mormons buy this - and why?
How big is the Mormon population outside of Utah? I told her I'd assemble
more marketing info, which in the end may push them one way or the other.
(also told her about Mitt Romney, which shocked her...) So, if in the next
week or so you can send more Mormon-marketing info, I'll send it along. She
and I agree that it seems like a good match and I want to give her as much
information as possible.
>>>
 
Following is the info I've pulled together for her. I'm a little
uncomfortable if they're thinking of it mainly for the Mormon market,
because I think it would bug most orthodox Mormons. Nevertheless, does
anyone have any comments or suggestions before I send this off?
 
There are 5.2 million members of the LDS Church in the United States, 70
percent of whom (3.6 million) live outside the state of Utah. Mormons have
long been accustomed to receiving their faith-related culture through
official and semi-official channels. As a result, the culture has a pent-up
demand for more frank, realistic, challenging expressions than the LDS
Church and its satellite propaganda machines seem willing or able to
produce. Mormons are hungry for more authentic stories about their own
experience. 
  
One of the main indicators of this untapped market is the recent explosion
of independent Mormon cinema. This movement started in 2000 with God's Army,
an out-of-left-field comedy-drama about Mormon missionaries in Los Angeles.
The film made an initial splash in Utah and quickly spread nationwide, with
box-office grosses totaling nearly $3 million and similar success in
video/DVD. Although Mormons comprise the film's primary audience, much of
its success can be attributed to members of other faiths or no faith who are
curious about the Mormon experience, including several national reviewers
who praised the film. Two subsequent Mormon indie films have already
exceeded the box office of God's Army, and many more are in the pipeline.
With enough publishing muscle, a similar phenomenon could happen with
independent-minded Mormon books. 
  
Another illustration of the strength and depth of the Mormon market is the
LDS Booksellers Association. Annual sales for the LDSBA's 250 retailers
exceed $100 million. Following are some examples of successful titles:
360,000 copies of Gordon B. Hinckley's inspirational book Stand a Little
Taller (Random House), more than 100,000 copies apiece of Gerald Lund's
novel Come unto Me (Deseret Book) and Sheri Dew's devotional memoir No Doubt
About It (Deseret Book), two million copies of Gerald Lund's nine-volume
Work and the Glory historical fiction series (Deseret Book), 400,000 copies
of Dean Hughes's five-volume Children of the Promise series (Deseret Book),
and 500,000 copies of Chris Heimerdinger's seven-volume Tennis Shoes Among
the Nephites series (Covenant). 
  
Notwithstanding the foregoing, I want to reiterate that my primary audience
in conceiving this memoir has been mainstream readers curious to find out
what Mormonism is like from an insider who is trying neither to prove nor
disprove the religion. In addition to Mormon readers, I hope the book would
be embraced by an audience that overlaps considerably with that of another
HarperSanFrancisco title, Mormon America: The Power and the Promise, by
Richard and Joan Ostling.

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:22:43 -0800

Barbara Hume wrote:
	But I've also found much that has given me peace from sources not =
obviously connected with 	the Church. God gave me a son, whom I raised =
by myself, and he is now a physical therapist who=20
	helped me recently when I blew out my knee. That sounds as though it =
could have happened 	anyway --- my son is naturally geared toward =
helping people -- but without the Church I might 	not have been able to =
bring him up as I did.

	When I first investigated the Church, I loved the fact that they were =
accepting of all the 	gifts available to people, whether or not they =
come through the formal structure of the LDS 	establishment.

Paris Anderson wrote:
	>I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because =
there
	>never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic.  That's =
hard
	>for me to understand, because I know the Church is true and it is the
	>Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers =
in
	>the Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's what
	>experience teaches me.

I like many of the discussions here but especially the things Paris and =
Barbara (and many others) have written. I'm very careful about how and =
with whom I share this stuff referred to as New Age since in my =
experience even long time members can be a little weird about the =
unexplained (in their eyes) things that happen with it (i.e. Barbara's =
comment about the Church being accepting of all gifts).=20

Some interesting things have been taking place in my life and my family. =
For a literary tie-in I have been working on a book which deals with my =
Social Anxiety Disorder and my mission. As my wife has written we joined =
a yoga center around March/April of this year called the Dahn Center. =
Most of what they teach is exercise but some of it deals with healing =
chakras and learning how to assist others in their own healing. Last =
weekend I and a friend went through a program they call "Shim Sung - =
Self-Rediscovery". It pushes you to the limit of many of your personal =
boundaries (especially shy or reserved people). I even consciously had =
not taken my anxiety medication that weekend so I would go through it =
with "no crutches" (I have not taken it since then, either). It was a =
day and a half (Saturday from 2 to 7 and Sunday from 9 AM to 7:30 PM) =
and there were 43 people who were participating from as far away as Las =
Vegas (they spelled it Lasvegas on the name tags - very funny =
considering most of the students were English speaking and the =
instructors were Koreans with a few staff who were English =
speaking/Americans). Because some of you may want to search this program =
out and take it I can't talk about the exercises but I will tell one =
thing special that happened there (is anyone is offended by this story I =
am sorry but it is very personal and is a story which gives peace). I =
will indent the story to separate it from comments at the end:

	I have struggled most of my life to understand why certain sibling(s) =
seemed to be favored 	over others in my family. While I was in a very =
intense part of the training Sunday I had a 	personal revelation. As an =
infant/young child (three years and under) I almost died twice due 	to =
digestive problems. The second time was so close the doctor called my =
parents and told 	them if they wanted to see me alive they had to come =
to the hospital that night to stay with 	me because I would be dead by =
morning. Nothing the current medical science could do would save 	me. In =
my vision my mother went to the hospital and my father stayed at home =
with my brother 	and sister (both younger than me and under two). My =
mother held me and rocked me all night. 	The incident she told me about =
as a young man happened that night where I came out of my coma 	long =
enough to see her crying and told her: "Don't cry, Mommy. Jesus will =
take care of me." 	And then I lapsed back into the coma. I also saw my =
father at home pacing the floor and 	periodically taking my brother and =
sister from their cribs and rocking them. He too was 	crying. I saw into =
his mind and realized the pain he was enduring that he was going to lose =
	his first born son. In order to shield himself from that overwhelming =
grief (and I'm sure to 	try and be strong for his dear wife) he =
transferred his love to one of my siblings. He never 	realized it and =
didn't know it happened so he never thought about transferring his love =
back 	to me. In addition he had been told if I did survive I would =
probably be very sickly (which I 	was through most of my youth - =
definitely slowed my physical growth - reached physical 	strength =
maturity in my sophomore year of college) and could sustain some brain =
damage due to 	the high fevers (which didn't happen - but some could =
argue the other way ;->). In that moment 	I gained an understanding of =
my father, a forgiveness of what happened (perceived to have 	happened), =
a greater love for my father and my mother as well as a new love for my =
siblings.

Many will say: "Well wasn't this just and answer to prayers said long =
ago?" Yeah, in a way. Or: "Are you really sure this is true?"  It felt =
awfully real to me!=20

But the real point here is now I REALLY understand how Enos felt in the =
Book of Mormon when he said he wrestled in the Spirit and even raised =
his voice to the heavens all the day long and into the night. The only =
difference was this was in a group setting and each of us individually =
received a personal message for our own life.

The Gospel is true but sometimes we have to get the answer/individual =
instructions on how to get it done from outside the "Mormon Norm" and in =
that this "New Age" thing is not only enlightening but really, really =
helpful.

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:45:24 -0800

Mary Jane Jones wrote:

	I've sung spirituals in several wards, both in Utah and here in South =
Carolina.  So far no one 	has told me I couldn't.  Also, my husband is a =
classical guitarist, and we perform together 	quite often.  We've been =
asked many times to perform in church, and have yet to run across a 	=
bishop or branch president that wouldn't allow him to play guitar (and =
we always asked first). =20

Oh, cool. Tell us next time you do and we may even buy a plane ticket to =
hear you. I think my wife commented about something similar (guitars =
music in Sacrament meetings) and our experience was different. In a Ward =
where we were living in the San Fernando Valley one of the members of =
our Ward had written an arrangement for guitar (he played drums in a =
country band and is now a Bishop himself) that commemorated the birth of =
his daughter and talked about the "Plan of Salvation" if I remember =
right. The Bishop in our Ward at the time said guitars were not =
appropriate for Sacrament meetings and would not let it be played (he =
had a friend who was going to play it who was a professional guitarist). =
He was a little hurt at the time. Glad to hear this is not the case all =
over the Church.

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Paris Anderson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Epiphanies
Date: 20 Nov 2002 17:57:09 -0700

In other words, they get the experience because of
> activation of the area theoretically due to the injury. Interesting. It
can't be
> bad :).

 Maybe not, but it hurt like hell.

Paris






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:04:27 -0700

I respect DB's decision, and I respect Sheri Dew's clarification that "this is 
not a moral decision, this is an economic one."  I interpret that to mean that 
she doesn't see it as DB's place to dictate what's right and wrong either, but 
that DB is a niche company.  Most of their merchandise is church stuff.  Most 
people who go to DB have that sort of thing in mind.  If I want to buy an LDS 
novel, I'll go to DB or Seagull.  I won't check Barnes and Noble for it unless 
I just happen to be there for some other reason, because their LDS selection is 
hit and miss at best.  But if I want _The Scarlet Letter_, or anything else non-
churchy,_ I'll head to Barnes and Noble.  I won't even bother with DB unless, 
again, I was already there for something else.  Perhaps I am wrong in how I 
picture the typical DB customer, but why would anyone go there unless they were 
looking for LDS materials?

It's just that DB has an area of specialty.  Most other retail establishments 
do as well.  If I want a greasy hamburger, I'll go to McDonald's.  If I want a 
taco, I'll go to Taco Bell.  If I want groceries, I'll go to a grocery store.  
If I want to buy a computer, I'll go to Circuit City.  Same difference.  I 
don't see a problem with DB's specializing, unless:  1) DB is the only 
bookstore around, in which case they control what anyone can buy (but then 
someone could open a competing store with a different slant), or 2) DB 
encourages Barnes and Noble and everyone else to pull these books off their 
shelves also.  And this isn't happening here.

As far as the Evans book itself, I haven't read it either, although I have to 
admit that all the buzz is making me curious.  It may be that it's not just 
that a woman spends the night with another man (without "doing anything") but 
that the woman turns to the other man for comfort in the first place--and finds 
it.  If so, people who pick up the book expecting a warm fuzzy squeaky-clean 
experience may indeed be offended.  Obviously DB could stand to make a lot of 
money on Evans's book, so their decision not to carry it was probably not made 
lightly.

Another article ran in the Deseret News today that mentioned that Seagull had 
pulled the Evans book also.  Unlike DB, they won't special order it, either.  
So DB is not the only one.  (I'm gonna have to read that book and see what all 
the fuss is about...)

Further implications to this policy are another matter.  Kudos to Rebecca for 
outlining her opinion, which she probably knew wouldn't be very popular among 
many of the vocal folks on this list.  Yes, many people want to see "real life" 
reflected in their reading.  But many others don't.  These are more the people 
that DB sees itself as serving.  These people want to be able to walk into DB 
and feel like they're getting something safe, whatever it is that they choose.  
They don't want to be surprised by something halfway through the book. And they 
certainly don't want to get such a surprise from something they got at a "safe" 
store like DB.

By the way, "real life" shouldn't just mean the coarser, more negative side of 
life.  "Real life" should also include plenty of positives.  That's real, too.  
It could be argued that LDS fiction has too many unearned positives, but that's 
a whole 'nother thing. 

Like others who have voiced their opinions, I'm concerned that some, or many, 
people will interpret this action as Church policy.  This is why Sheri Dew 
specifically said that *this is not a moral decision, it is an economic one.*  
But, yes, there will be people who still interpret it that way.  On the other 
hand, most of them probably already felt that way.  They've already decided 
what kinds of books they want to read.  DB is just going to help them find them.

Maybe these people are shutting themselves off from some valuable reading 
material.  To each his own.  You snooze, you lose.  We have our free agency to 
choose, among many other things, what we're going to read.  That applies to 
everyone.  Maybe some of these people will consider themselves morally superior 
to lowlifes who read such things as (gasp!) _The Scarlet Letter_.  Again, they 
probably already did, anyway.  Such a stance doesn't seem morally correct to 
me, but who am I to judge anymore than anyone else?  

One more thing.  The Deseret News article today also said that DB formulated 
its new policy based on a survey of approximately 350 DB customers.  To me, 350 
seems a bit low to base such a sweeping policy on.  And these were existing 
customers.  Might they increase their customer base if they surveyed non-DB 
customers?  If they asked them what they could do to get them to shop there?

But then they might turn out to be another Barnes and Noble.  And we already 
have plenty of those.

--Katie Parker   




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jim Cobabe" 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 00:10:17 -0500


Then again, perhaps the new policy simply reflects resignation.  DB is just 
facing the facts.  Most authors will not happily submit to the DB standard 
of literary criticism.

It is manifestly impractical to continue to expect LDS writers to respond to 
polite requests that they voluntarily observe the bounds of propriety in the 
exercise of their own artistic freedom, for the sake of promoting correct 
principles and praiseworthy standards.  By and large the writers have 
demonstrated over time that they will not.  Judging by the common sentiments 
of members of this forum, those who welcome such suggestions are in the 
minority.  Resentment seem to be the more typical reaction to such counsel.

Perhaps the tacit refusal of LDS authors to submit to constructive direction 
and thus create works that fully comply with LDS standards has actually 
forced the new policy.  It would be supremely ironic if the arrogant 
overinsistence of LDS authors on absolute literary self-determination has 
destroyed the biggest potential commercial marketing channel for their 
products.

Imagine the frustrated editorial reviewers at DB, ever reading manuscripts 
and new books in the vain hope of finding works that are praiseworthy, of 
good report, and require no apologies to preface their placement on the 
shelves of the bookstore that defines the literary presence of the Church.

I personally would not be distressed to discover that classic fiction was no 
longer offered at Deseret Book.  Nor would I be worried if none of the NYT 
best-sellers ever appeared there.  For me, the public library is a fine 
source for such works.  What I hope to find when I shop at DB appears to me 
to be exactly the genre they are trying to define with their new focus.  And 
it suits me just fine.

---
Jim Cobabe
jcobabe@hotmail.com

When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor 
less.  (Humpty Dumpty)






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:13:45 -0700

> << When we were house-hunting, one real estate agent we talked to (a 
> perfectly 
>  nice fellow, by the way) opened a folder to introduce us to the house-buying
> 
>  process, and displayed discreetly but prominently inside the folder was his
> 
>  temple recommend.  And thus we knew that he was an active Latter-day Saint. 
> 
> He 
>  wouldn't have put it there if that wasn't a way of helping him to gain 
>  clients.   >>
> 
> This is messed up on so many levels! Witnessing this trick would have caused
> 
> me to suspect this "perfectly nice" character. This would be hilarious if it
> 
> wasn't true. Outrageous. Unbelievable.
> 
> May I please use this scene in a movie?
> 
> Richard

Go for it!
Maybe it's hilarious even though it *is* true.

(We ended up not going with him, BTW...:)

--Katie Parker




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: [AML] Levi PETERSON, _The Backslider_ (was: Tooting My Musical Horn)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:24:21 -0700

Levi, since you brought up The Backslider I must tell you that my husband
and I just finished reading this wonderful book and we loved it.  We enjoyed
Juanita Brooks so much that we wanted to read more and I'm so glad we did.
What a well crafted story with well fleshed-out characters.  This book made
me laugh out loud, cry out loud and made me so angry at one point I wanted
to scream and hurl the book across the room.  Although I don't know any
people quite like these people, these characters were so real for me that I
don't think I'll ever forget them.  (I can't say that about most books I
read.)  Both of your books made the short list of Best Mormon Literature for
us.

Nan McCulloch


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:31:26 -0700

Quoting margaret young :

> Didn't Anita Stansfield write something similar to
> Richard's book?  It seems I recall reading AML comments about her book
> with a very similar plot--except that the bad spouse either died or
> asked for a divorce so the better marriage could happen.  

In _First Love and Forever_, (which is the first book in the trilogy where the 
wife is sealed to her abusive first husband instead of her wonderful second 
husband and the implications of the sealing are explored) Emily was originally 
in love with Michael, who was wonderful but he wasn't LDS.  So she married 
Ryan, who was LDS and somehow she got this idea that it was the right thing to 
do.  Fast forward several years--Ryan is emotionally distant and not very 
wonderful, and Emily happens to run into Michael again.  Michael begs her to 
leave Ryan and run off with him.  Emily carefully considers it, prays about it, 
and decides she'd better stay with Ryan.  Ryan starts shaping up, though, but 
just as things look like they could work out with him, he's killed in a car 
wreck.  So then Emily can marry Michael and live happily ever after (except, of 
course, for that sealing thing).  

That's something that's bothered me about Stansfield's books--Technically, 
they're very proper; Emily doesn't leave her husband or commit adultery or 
anything like that.  But in spirit, she sure wants to.  But since she doesn't 
actually do any of the technical stuff, her straying feelings are okay.  
They're even right, since Ryan's soon out of the picture anyway, and obviously 
she and Michael were always meant for each other and Ryan was always slime.

A more realistic version of this would have Emily choosing to stay with Ryan, 
and then having to make that marriage work for another sixty years. This would 
include overcoming her feelings for Michael.  Or perhaps she would leave Ryan 
and forge a new life alone, but there would be no Michael waiting for her.  
Probably the romance-reading crowd wouldn't buy it, though.

--Katie Parker




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Hymns
Date: 20 Nov 2002 23:02:31 -0700

Thanks Steve for taking time to tell us the fascinating story of how "As
Sisters in Zion" came to be.  It is certainly one of the most oft' sung new
hymns in our ward.  And yes it is fun to sing.  I have sung it as a duet.
Maybe your challenge will stimulate the birth of some *new* new hymns.
Praise the Lord.  I feel a song coming on.

Nan McCulloch



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis K. Manning" 
Subject: [AML] Re: New DB Policy
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:31:58 -0800

Yeah, what [Chris Bigelow] said.

I don't think we want to alienate DB as an organization by rubber stamping
our names on a petition to disagree with one of their policies.  However, if
*individual members* want to get friends and associates together to sign
petitions, without using AML's name, that's a different can of something
else.  Go for it.  I think the AML stands to lose much more than it could
ever gain.  We want to maintain a working relationship with Sherry Dew, and
Cory Maxwell and company.  We don't have to agree with their decision, but
we don't have to overtly support it, either.

Side note:  I emailed DB a couple days ago with a question regarding changes
in manuscript submissions, what kinds of things were they now looking for,
and not now looking for in submissions with regards to violence, language,
and immorality.  Still waiting.

Travis Manning


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim Madsen" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 20 Nov 2002 23:47:47 -0800

Richard Dutcher wrote:
"Witnessing this trick would have caused me to suspect this
"perfectly nice" character."

Richard, as a cop for 12 years, my husband told me many, many
stories of people he stopped for violations from speeding to
suspected drunken driving who managed to pull their temple
recommends from their wallets instead of their drivers licenses.
"Oops, my mistake officer." Yeah, right.

Kim Madsen


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis K. Manning" 
Subject: [AML] Re: Newest Deseret News spin on Deseret Book
Date: 20 Nov 2002 22:53:22 -0800

----- Original Message -----


> Deseret Book rethinks offerings
> By Dave Anderton
> Deseret News business writer
> 11/20/02
>
>       Jon Kofford, vice president of marketing for Seagull Book & Tape, an
> American Fork-based book retailer that also carries LDS products and is a
> main competitor of Deseret Book, said its 18 stores originally carried
"The
> Last Promise" but pulled the book off its shelves after it was determined
> the book did not meet the company's guidelines.
>       Unlike Deseret Book, Seagull Book will not special-order "The Last
> Promise" for its customers.
>       "Deseret Book is instigating a new policy, and we've always had our
> policy and pulled books off the shelf before," Kofford said. "We typically
> have just focused on the LDS market, and we have carried very few trade
> books."

Well now, Seagull is also taking the moral high ground, or "always" has?
Hmm.  I think Seagull is in a safe holding pattern mentality.  We'll all
have to wait and see what DB really pulls from their shelves.  If someone
can get a list of DB's "banned books," let's publish it.  Keep your eyes
peeled.

Travis Manning







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Truth and Mormonism
Date: 20 Nov 2002 14:16:59 -0700

John Dewey Remy wrote:

> I am particularly interested in the "Epiphanies" and  the "New Age Mormons"
> threads.

Interesting. I don't find these as interesting as some here, and I'm
wondering why. Is it because it seems like a non-issue to me?

I've grown up being willing to accept truth from whatever source. It's
an attitude that's second nature to me. I haven't always defined "truth"
as intelligently as I could, but if I considered it truth, I accepted
it, regardless of its origin.

So I guess I just don't see that much to say about the subject. Isn't it
obvious we should accept truth from any source?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy (comp 3)
Date: 20 Nov 2002 15:05:44 -0700

A compilation of my responses to the compilation:



R.W. Rasband wrote:

> My earlier post on Deseret Book and Richard Paul Evans was mistaken when I
> said that the "Deseret News" article mentioned "The Scarlet Letter" as a
> possible target for banning.  The article didn't give any books as
> examples.  I don't know where I came up with that.  Wishful thinking on my
> part, I guess.  It would have been too perfect.

Perhaps from the Salt Lake Tribune article, which _did_ mention that
book (and "Jane Eyre").



Kim Madsen wrote:

> have upset some of your customers in the past. I firmly believe
> that this is a knee jerk reaction to a very small and vocal
> minority of your customers.

So a survey said that Deseret Book customers don't like books that clash
with their values. Of course no Mormon wants to buy or read a book that
clashes with his/her values. My question is: who defines what "clashing
with values" means?



Rebecca Talley wrote:

> I applaud Sheri Dew
> and I wholeheartedly suppport President Hinckley and
> his vision.   Do I need to read smut to make me think?

Who said anything about smut? Do you think the Richard Paul Evans book
that was banned had smut in it?


> Am I somehow unintelligent or less learned
> because I choose only uplifting materials?

No, but someone could be unintelligent or less learned in how he defines
"uplifting."


> Is there evil in the world?  Yes, everywhere, but do I
> have to bring it into my home through TV, movies, or
> books?

And how is telling stories about evil and its consequences actually
"bringing evil" into your home? If you read a story where someone
shoplifts, has shoplifting occurred in your home?


> I, personally, want to go to DB, take my children and
> know that I can choose a safe, uplifting book.

Isn't this letting Deseret Book do your thinking and choosing for you?
We decided in the council in heaven that it would be bad to let Lucifer
do that for us. When it's Deseret Book, it's okay?


> If I can't have the Spirit with me
> while I read a book, it isn't appropriate.

I shouldn't have read that collection of Dilbert cartoons? I don't
recall having the Spirit when I read it. Of course, I don't recall being
incited to sin either.


> President Hinckley wants us, as members of the Church,
> to choose uplifting material.  If we choose smut then
> we live with the consequences (as is plainly evident
> in the world around us).

There are those words again: "uplifting" and "smut." And what are the
definitions of these? And why are your definitions required to be
adopted by all?


>  It's up to each of us to
> make that choice.

No, it's up to Deseret Book to make that choice, because you want to go
into a bookstore where that choice is pre-made: where it's "safe."


> I see DB's decision as appropriate
> and in keeping with President Hinckley's, and
> ultimately the Lord's, view of what we should and
> should not be reading.

Deseret Book's business decision is now the will of the Lord. Deseret
Book's choice on what is "smut" and what is not is now the Lord's
definition. Deseret Book has become a prophet, speaking the mind of God,
the will of God, and the power of God unto salvation.


> By the way, I don't live in Utah and was not raised in
> Utah.  In fact, I grew up in a very liberal home that
> contained questionable books, magazines, and TV shows,
> and I remember how badly they made me feel.

So don't buy or read them. But make that decision for yourself. You are
relinquishiing your free agency to Deseret Book, letting them decide for
you what's appropriate. Yes, I most certainly do call that "not
thinking."



Justin Halverson wrote:

> Don't expect this seemingly logical argument to work. I've tried it with
> some of those who DB is trying to attract with this discussion, and was
> instructed that the stories in the Bible and the Book of Mormon are not
> offensive because they are "not explicit."

And the Richard Paul Evans book _is_ explicit?

This response you bring up is bogus, because the people who give that
response do not limit the definition of "smut" to explicitness. The mere
mention of certain acts (sex, nudity, yada yada) is enough to declare
something "smutty" or "not uplifting." Furthermore, does anyone who
reads about Lot's daughters getting him drunk and becoming impregnated
by him NOT conjur up explicit images as they read that? Or how about
Onan "spilling his seed on the ground"? Any explicit image spring to
mind there?



Eric D. Snider wrote:

> I don't know whether Jim has read the book in question or not, but
> he's voicing an opinion I've heard elsewhere, among people I know
> HAVEN'T read it. Basically, these people are assuming that because DB
> won't sell the book, that means the book MUST be trashy.

And there it is--the illustration of how this policy is in fact
codifying an absence of thinking, a relinquishing of responsibility. Is
this the road to eternal progression? Is this the intelligence that is
God's glory?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: harlowclark@juno.com
Subject: Re: [AML] Generalizing from Experience
Date: 21 Nov 2002 01:06:11 -0800

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 22:48:03 -0700 John Dewey Remy 
writes:
> Writers have the tricky task of keeping the audience in a 
> delicate bubble of virtuality for the duration of their experience.  
> This means that they can't burst that bubble by subjecting the 
> audience to events that they can't accept.  This may have been 
> part of Stephen Spielberg's motivation when he chose not to
> display some of the Nazi's most hideous acts in _Schindler's 
> List_ (he specifically gives the example of SS troops 
> throwing Jewish babies into the air for target practice).

Horrendous. I think part of the reason for Spielberg's choice is that
when we suspend disbelief we agree to believe that what we're seeing on
screen is real, and that's too horrible to see. Even hearing it discussed
in The Trojan Women is wrenching. I still remember how shocked I was
watching Michael Cacoyannis's film in 184 JKB (before BYU moved the
International Cinema to Kimball Tower) when the Greeks come for Astyanax.
Then I ran into it again in Sartre's adaptation, which I find I had
bookmarked with and old utility bill payment envelope. Consider
Talthybios's comment,

All very distasteful. I feel quite sick.
    That's the worst of war:
Those who give the orders 
     Seldom see the mess it makes
         When you hold a child by the feet
And bash its head against a wall.
(Ronald Duncan's version of Sartre's adaptation, Vintage paperback, 1967,
p. 48)

I dreamed last night (Oct 27, 02) that I was attending a triple execution
for war criminals, and I had taken pictures of them up on the gallows.
And the pix turned out to have surprising emotional power because behind
each of the condemned was a poster of himself as charismatic leader. And
yet, though I was taking pictures, I turned away from the execution
itself.

00:03 11/19/2002 (I.E., it's still 11/18/02)
I had an e-mail crash a couple weeks ago and have been sorting my 10,000
e-mails back into folders (including Deleted Items) and came across this
from my drafts folder, and it reminded me that I had another execution
dream last night. This one was around the time of the Crucifixion. The
line I remember was something like, "At least the Monopoly game helped
him," the implication being that the Monopoly game was a good teaching
tool for some moral values, sharing, I think.

I've always been fascinated and troubled by the concept of execution.
Partly because I keep thinking how would I handle that, knowing that my
death was sudden and certain at a certain time and in a violent way?
Revelation 6:9, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the
altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the
testimony which they held," haunted me at times on my mission, and I said
in a Zone Conference tesitmony meeting that possibly I might end up as
one of those souls. I'm not sure I really felt that way, I was trying to
figure out the power that scripture has for me. 

As I was trying to get back to sleep I remember the odd thought, 'What
are all these dreams preparing me for? Wouldn't it be strange if they
were preparing me to see the Crucifixion?'

It occurs to me that a person having dreams that inevitably progress
toward a vision of the Crucifixion (or, say, the death of Abinadi) would
be the basis of a really fine horror story, and it would do what Eric
Samuelsen talked about  Nov 18 in the 'Book of Mormon in Film' thread,
dramatizing the doctrinal aspects of the Book of Mormon.

Because, of course, there is a horror story like that in the Book of
Mormon. We live so long after the time of Jesus that it's a little
shocking to read the words of prophets who lived centuries before him and
realize they didn't know he would be crucified. Nephi's vision of the Son
of God being tortured to death is truly terrifying to him.

Harlow S. Clark

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: The Laird Jim 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 21 Nov 2002 03:37:10 -0700

on 11/14/02 10:46 AM, Paris Anderson at parisander@freeport.com wrote:

> I've been very disappointed in the Church over the last year, because there
> never are results.  With Ch'i Gung the results are dramatic.  That's hard
> for me to understand, because I know the Church is true and it is the
> Kingdom of God.  So what gives?  Does that mean you might find answers in
> the Church, but if you need results--go somewhere else?  That's what
> experience teaches me.
> 
> Paris Anderson

Down in Chile a "former" sister told me that she had been sick a long time
and had prayed to Heavenly Father for help but she was still sick.  One of
her friends told her that all she needed to do was recite three rezos to
Teresa de los Andes and she would be healed at once.  She did the
recitations and got better a few weeks later.  This is why she was a
Catholic again and not a Mormon.  Teresa de los Andes was not even a Beata
at the time so it was a pre-saint pre-beatus miracle.  I asked her if she
didn't believe in God then, since she had summarily rejected His power.
That set her back a little, but what really got her is what my companion
said.  You have to have faith before you'll see any results.   I've seen a
great number of people healed, some of them instantly--in one case I
actually watched a film of pain drain from a woman's eyes after I finished
the sealing.  I've read several other responses to your post and many of
them make good points, particularly about how so much of the gospel is left
open for personal learning and understanding.  You have to work out your own
salvation with fear and trembling.  Every covenant with God is
personal--Christ took on the sins of each individual, rather than "us all."
Nobody can be healed except by faith, and if you only have faith in regimen
and the arm of flesh why would you expect anything different.  No results?
Speak for yourself.

Jim Wilson
aka the Laird Jim





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Melissa Proffitt 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 21 Nov 2002 07:56:31 -0700

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:37:12 -0500, Walters, Isaac wrote:

>I don't think I'm all that brilliant, but thank you for remembering me
>so kindly.  Yes, I am the Isaac you're thinking of.  If you're
>interested in more C.S. Lewis theatre, you should look for our
>production this next summer of "Till We Have Faces".  I'm very nervous
>and very excited about it.

Wow, you're doing this?  That's my favorite of his novels.  Please do =
keep
us posted on its progress, because I am now looking forward to seeing it.

Melissa Proffitt




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:47:16 -0700

Margaret writes: I'm not the least bit offended that no
Deseret Bookstore will carry it.  It'll find its own audience, which
will no doubt be limited.  But I am not bothered by Sheri Dew's moral
decision either.

This is a great post, Margaret, and explains exactly why I'm feeling all
right about being on the black list. You made a wonderful case for HERESIES.
You have discussed your students' questions before. They asked how you could
write both HERESIES and your Des. Bk. project. I understand their question,
I understand your acceptance of the paradoxes, and I understand Sheri Dew's
decision. But I just cringe because I see that they have opened up a can of
worms. (Or Pandora's box.)  Who is offended by WHAT? There are so many
differences! It is so VAST a subject, that we are in for it now. (I don't
see how I can leave the list when the popcorn is beginning to pop.) Marilyn
Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:52:36 -0700



>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com 
>[mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ivan 
>Angus Wolfe
>Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:43 AM
>To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
>
>
>> "The Avenging Angel"
>> features a surprisingly well-balanced and sympathetic portrayal of 
>> Latter-day Saints, considering the fact that the filmmakers were not 
>> LDS and the film is set in a somewhat wild and occasionally violent 
>> Western milieau.
>> 
>> - Preston Hunter
>
>I would disagree with that.  I saw the movie and was sure it 
>was written by anti-mormons. Sure, individual Mormons could be 
>okay, but the church as a whole was portrayed as fairly 
>corrupt, bigoted, secretive and murderous.

The Church, or the renegade and fictional apostle?  I seem to remember
Brigham Young as being rather heroic.

>
>Of course, I am colored by the fact it came out while I was on 
>my mission, and it became a stumbling block to quite a few 
>investigators, so I may have viewed it differently if the 
>timing were different.
>

This is quite possible.  I used to feel that way about the book the 27th
Wife because it came out while I was on my mission.  Years later,
however, when I began to study Church history and realized that most of
the book, though fictional, was based on real history, I adjusted my
views toward Church history.  I no longer expect past or present
prophets to be perfect people. 

Thom






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mary Aagard 
Subject: [AML] Need Info on Child Abuse Recovery
Date: 21 Nov 2002 08:17:48 -0800 (PST)

I've been reading the list for a couple of weeks now.  I'm excited to be a part of these discussions.  I'm writing now to ask for a little help. 

To introduce myself:

I'm Mary C. Aagard.  I'm 22 years old.  I'm from Burley, Idaho but am now living in West Lafayette with my husband while he attends Purdue University.  I work in the interlibrary loan department at Purdue and am applying to get my Master's of Library Science.  I'm a BYU Media Arts graduate and my connection to Mormon lit?  I competed in the short screenplay contest at the 2nd LDS film festival and my script won third place.  I'm a writer, but mostly a reader.  And this list is a lifesaver while I'm here at work.  (It's really slow right now.)  Geez o' Pete that was a boring intro, so it goes.

 I'm doing research on child sexual abuse recovery literature targeted to Mormons or even Christians.  I know that Cheiko Okazaki has a talk on tape about this, but I'm having a hard time finding any books, etc. written by a Mormon, for a Mormon about dealing with sexual abuse.  If anyone has any ideas, etc, please let me know.  Thank you.

Also, as a writer, and a beginning one at that, I'm just starting to enter my scripts, stories, poems into contests, etc. and I'm wondering if you other writers out there are able to distance your person (who you are) from your writing, who your characters are.  I mean, the script I entered into the film festival includes elements of my own experience.  I was unable to attend the reading of the scripts and my mother-in-law went for me, and she made it a point to tell the audience that, indeed, I had suffered through some of the same trials as my characters.  No big deal really, that's the risk you run when you write fiction with autobiographical elements.  I was then overcome with this panic, I thought people would only like my story because they were taking pity on me, knowing that this had happened to me personally.  I was afraid that actual events would overshadow the writing and make it less worthwhile somehow.  Does anybody else have fears about this?  

[Mary Aagard]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Production of _The Crucible_
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:08:18 -0700

Last night I saw _The Crucible_ at BYU. And may I say, Eric Samuelsen, that
it's the best production I've yet seen (Eric plays the role of the farmer
Giles something). Maybe it's because I had good seats and could hear the
dialogue well and really watch the characters, but I was thoroughly
engrossed and felt unexpectedly strong emotions several times. Seeing the
show at this point in AML-List discourse was particularly interesting. Not
that it's entirely fair or justified, but it's hard for me not to picture
Deseret Book shrieking "We saw Richard Paul Evans with the devil!"

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: [AML] Missionary Farewells/Homecomings
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:18:01 -0700

FWIW.

Sunday, my son attended the best/worst missionary farewell ever.

First, the guy missionarying was, like, 24.  He hadn't gone prior to this =
basically because of major league, near terminal shyness.  Finally, screws =
his courage to the sticking point and decides to go.  Okay, time for his =
farewell address.  He hasn't slept for nights, stressing.  He gets up =
there, and locks his knees up.  Three sentences in, he keels over in a =
dead faint.

So.  Chaos.  Consternation.  Much bustling about.  Finally he's settled on =
a bench, his new Mr. Mac jacket tucked under his head.  Now, the bishop is =
faced with twenty minutes to go in sac meeting, and a konked out speaker.  =
The bish hasn't prepared any remarks, but he's got to fill time.  This was =
his approach:  "Dear brothers and sisters, I'm sure we're all concerned =
about Elder Jones, but I'm assured that he's going to be fine.  And let me =
just say one thing.  We're all of us so grateful today that he's going on =
his mission.  He had to overcome so much to be able to go." (Pause.  Deep =
breath.) "Pornography is such a problem in today's society . . . ."

Now, to the bishop, these were two separate and unconnected thoughts.  =
Elder Jones had not, apparently, any kind of pornography problem.  The =
bishop figured he'd express concern and then, new topic, totally unconnecte=
d, began his own extempore remarks on pornography.  All of which, after =
the initial huge audience gasp, the bishop quickly clarified.  But that =
was one terrific missionary farewell.

As it happens, that same Sunday, my nephew returned from his mission in =
Chile, and my wife and I went to that one.  What was comical about that =
one were the many many statements the bishop felt compelled to make about =
how this wasn't a homecoming, we don't have homecomings anymore, and =
asking Spence to talk was just the ward asking a guy in the ward to give a =
talk without that having any special significance, and the special musical =
number performed by Spence's sisters didn't have anything to do with his =
coming home either, but was just your common or garden ordinary special =
musical number like we have from time to time, and how the reception =
afterwards at my sister-in-law's house (which he mentioned three times) =
was not a ward social or an effort on the part of the bishopric to do =
anything homecomingly special for Spence, but just a private family =
gathering, by invitation only, which invitation only coincidentally had =
been extended to include the entire ward, but don't read anything into =
that.  It was priceless.  And then Spence gave a lovely talk, and he's a =
great kid who had a wonderful mission, apparently, and so all's well.  =
Love this new policy, though.=20

Eric Samuelsen







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tony Markham 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 12:24:40 -0500

The new DB Policy could indeed bee seen as a legitimate business decision if the
result is to reduce the sales of smaller Mormon Presses.  Some of these have only
a small margin of profitability and if certain of their titles were banned from
the major retailer for Mormon presses, then these upstarts could be nudged out of
business.

Since DB recently went through some downsizing, it's not beyond the pale to
imagine them engaging in other equally heartless business decisions.

Just a thought...

Tony Markham





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
Date: 21 Nov 2002 10:36:02 -0700

FWIW,

Avenging Angel was not written by an anti-Mormon.  It was written by Gary =
Dixon, who is married to my Mom's cousin, who is a theatre professor at =
Indiana State University, and who is, last I heard, a member of the =
Church, though an unorthodox and not tremendously active one.  Gary is a =
good guy, a very bright teacher, a capable writer, and someone who, at the =
very least, wishes the Church well.  Avenging Angel, which I do not regard =
as his best work, is quite engaging and well researched. =20

Eric Samuelsen








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Lee 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy=20
Date: 21 Nov 2002 11:01:19 -0800 (PST)

I=92ve never read anything by Richard Paul Evans and
have no idea what his new or previous works are like.
However, I think I may understand the concerns of
those at Desert Book who=92ve made the change.=20

As I read the article I didn=92t get the impression that
they would no longer be carrying books that depicted
immorality, but those works which present it as a
working or successful alternative. Those are the ones
that will be removed. Again, I don't know if Evans
book does this or not.=20

I would assume that Deseret Book=92s standards of moral
content would be the same for all books they carry
regardless of the publisher. As a business owned by a
church, a church which not only bears the name of
Jesus Christ but proclaims to be directly led by Him,
the standards of all it's enterprises must reflect His
will. I think it's pretty impressive that the Church
even owns a chain of bookstores. I'm impressed that
the Church has as large of a publishing arm as it does
with such a wide selection of materials.=20

Knowing that an outlet is owned by the Church, patrons
will surely except the materials carried there to
reflect the mission of the Church. And they should. If
the Church is true then why shouldn't it's bookstores
be as well? Why shouldn't it have the same standards
as those outline in the pamphlet "For the Strength of
Youth" or in General Conference talks? Of course they
will have a narrower selection but that's kind of the
point isn't it?=20

I live in South Eastern United States far from any
Desert Book stores. Our independently owned LDS
bookstores are just that, LDS bookstores. They don't
carry popular secular titles. Members of the Church in
the South go to these outlets because they are the
only places where we can get items related the Church
without making special orders (Not including
Anti-Mormon literature, which by the way is not as
easy to find as it was a few years ago.). We happily
purchase non-LDS books at other locations.=20

When I was in Salt Lake City last year I was surprised
at all of the non-LDS material available in the
Deseret Book store I visited. My perspective is so
different. We flock to our bookstore down here eager
to see and touch the books. If they don't have an LDS
title we're looking for they will order it for us just
like Barnes and Noble or Borders or anyone else would
do. So I think you folks in the West and more so in
Utah, have it pretty good. You can go to multiple
retailers and find just about any LDS book you want on
the spot. And you can conveniently pick up non-LDS
books in an LDS book store (I certainly would be
surprise to find popular non-religious or non-culture
related works in our LDS or Jewish bookstores here.).
Plus you've got Desert Industries where you have the
chance of finding old LDS books at a really cheap
price. I'm pretty excited here when I find copy of The
Book of Mormon at Goodwill that was donated by an
uninterested investigator.=20

I just don't think Deseret Book owes anyone an
explanation for it's choices and it's certainly has no
obligation to the public to carry the titles people
want to buy. They are a very unique operation. It's
not a business in operation solely for the sake of
being a business.=20

As I said at the beginning, just be grateful that you
have Deseret Book stores for now and that they carry
as much as they do. If it does not fit in with the
mission of the Church, with the needs of the people,
or if other equal resources become available to the
people, then Deseret Book will be dropped from the
umbrella of Church just like other ventures have in
the past. If and when those "needs" begin to shift is
not our call.=20

Thank you,

Matthew R. Lee

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walters, Isaac" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 21 Nov 2002 14:04:28 -0500



Scott Parkin wrote:
"I don't know if "we" have suffered enough to produce much of anything,
but I know a fair number of individuals (who happen to be Mormon) who
have suffered more than enough in their personal lives to tell deeply
powerful--perhaps even great--stories of what it means to have those
unique and personal experiences."

It seems to me that both this response and the statement it was
responding to both fall prey to the same fallacy:  that an artist has to
suffer in order create great art.  Those of you who know your literary
history better than can correct me on this, but I believe that the idea
of the suffering artist is a relatively new idea in the artistic
community only dating back to Byron and the Romantic period.  If that is
true, then what can be said for all of the poor unsuffering artists
before that time?  Is the work of Racine, Moliere, Shakespeare, or
Euripides of less value because they didn't live starving in a garret
with the entire world against them?

As I look at the writers outside of the church that I find the most
moving in a spiritual sense (i.e. Lewis, Jacpone da Todi, Rumi) I find a
yearning for the divine that moves through all of their work.  A desire
for a personal encounter with God, and in some way their work is part of
that reaching and yearning.

Now, I will admit that that yearning can be strengthened by suffering.
One has only to look at the writings of Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail or
Nephi in 2 Ne. 4 to see powerful examples of this from our own culture.
But it seems to me that the suffering is not the thing which causes the
experience.  Alma 62:41 says, "But behold, because of the exceedingly
great length of the war between the Nephites and the Lamanites many had
become hardened, because of the exceedingly great length of the war; and
many were softened because of their afflictions, insomuch that they did
humble themselves before God, even in the depth of humility."  What is
the difference?  I think it has to be something happening inside the
individual, since the suffering around them as a group was very similar.

I know that relating our suffering to our spiritual progress is a
popular Mormon literary form, coming straight out of Fast and Testimony
meetings, but I think that if this the form we limit ourselves to, we
are denying ourselves many more opportunities to create truly spiritual
art.  I guess in this sense I am a true Mormon mystic.  I want to create
art where my audience and I share in the experience of an encounter with
God.

[Isaac Walters]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Deborah Wager 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 17:33:29 -0700

Random thoughts from the back row:

When I read in the paper about the Deseret Book policy the first thought 
I had was a memory of a talk I heard several years back, when we lived 
in California, on the 13th article of faith. Now I always settle down 
with a smile for talks on the 13th article of faith. Just love 'em--If 
there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report, we seek after 
these things! You just can't get past that without feeling stimulated to 
go out and seek. Then this sister, a mother of young children, got up 
and talked for fifteen minutes about how we should only read books 
published by DB and Bookcraft; anything with those logos on it was great 
and anything else was suspect. I was totally floored. Anyway, that 
memory came back to me as I read the news articles, wondering if the 
sister would like the policy.

But since she lives in California she won't see any difference, because 
outside of Utah (and Idaho? don't know how far the area is) DB only 
carries LDS books, anyway. One of the big surprises on moving to Utah 
was that I could go to Deseret Book for general fiction and nonfiction. 
But, as my husband reminds me, their selection isn't that great anyway, 
at least at the stores near us. But so anyway, this may be a way of 
streamlining their stock, whether it was a motivating factor or not.

All in all I guess it's a company's decision to decide what they will 
and won't carry, and the articles did say they would still order copies 
of books they don't stock, upon request. I also noticed Rolly and Wells 
reported that BYU Bookstore still carries many of these titles.

I read the books my kids are assigned at school, mostly so I can be 
supportive and make appropriate comments/questions, but also so I can 
read some of the things I skipped growing up. Right now I'm re-reading 
The Scarlet Letter and am about to take a first-time plunge into 
Candide. I have heard from my kids' teachers that they sometimes/often 
get complaints from parents about the selections their children are 
asked to read, and I wonder if this will lend perceived strength 
(perceived by either the parents or the schools/districts) to those 
complaints?

Debbie Wager





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "R.W. Rasband" 
Subject: [AML] Warren Zevon Ill
Date: 21 Nov 2002 17:51:54 -0800 (PST)

The great singer/songwriter Warren Zevon has terminal cancer.  Here is a
poignant appreciation:
http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20021107sam1107p1.asp

Zevon's mother was LDS; his father was Jewish.  The story of their
marriage is told in his song "Mama Couldn't Be Persuaded", which is found
on his classic 1976 album "Warren Zevon."  Everyone should own a copy.



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
R.W. Rasband
Heber City, UT
rrasband@yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus =96 Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dorothy" 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 07:56:12 -0800

[MOD: I think Dorothy raises an extremely important issue here. What impact 
will this sales policy have on Mormon publishing? What percentage of the LDS 
bookstore market is through DB outlets?]

Obviously Deseret Book has the right to decide what they will sell or not
sell.  I don't think that's at issue.  The problem is that if they won't
sell Mormon Literature of a certain "type," whatever that "type" might be,
other LDS publishers won't publish that "type."  That gives DB extraordinary
power in the Mormon publishing marketplace, and it effectively limits the
freedom of expression for Mormon writers.

Dorothy W. Peterson
http://www.lds-index.org
dorothy@lds-index.org






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J. Scott Bronson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Levi PETERSON, _The Backslider_ 
Date: 21 Nov 2002 20:52:50 -0700

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:24:21 -0700 "Nan McCulloch" 
writes:

> Levi, since you brought up The Backslider I must tell you that my 
> husband and I just finished reading this wonderful book and we 
> loved it. 

Then I highly recommend that you find a copy of his other novel, _Aspen
Marooney_, and his two short story collections, _Canyons of Grace_ and
_Night Soil_.

scott




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cathy Wilson 
Subject: Re: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:14:34 -0700

Paris Anderson wrote:
Some people will get stake callings, and they'll go around and do
total or partial healings (some healings take a long time and a lot of
effort).  I'm pretty sure about all of this, because it's already
happening--except for the official recognition part.

And alas, the power and joy that come from this sort of work feels far, far more
bouyant and deep than visiting teaching.

Cathy Wilson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J. Scott Bronson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 21 Nov 2002 20:58:23 -0700

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 22:31:26 -0700 katie@aros.net writes:

[with some snips here and there]

> In _First Love and Forever_, Emily was originally in love with 
> Michael, who was wonderful but he wasn't LDS.  So she 
> married Ryan, who was LDS.  Fast forward several years--
> Ryan is emotionally distant and not very wonderful, and Emily 
> happens to run into Michael again.  Michael begs her to 
> leave Ryan and run off with him.  Emily carefully considers it, 
> prays about it, and decides she'd better stay with Ryan.  Ryan 
> starts shaping up, though, but just as things look like they 
> could work out with him, he's killed in a car wreck.

This is a universe that I can get into; one where God will kill people
for you so that you won't have to be a martyr for too long.

scott




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jacob Proffitt" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Porter Rockwell Actor James Coburn Dies
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:51:13 -0700

---Original Message From: Eric R. Samuelsen
>
> FWIW,
>
> Avenging Angel was not written by an anti-Mormon.  It was
> written by Gary Dixon, who is married to my Mom's cousin, who
> is a theatre professor at Indiana State University, and who
> is, last I heard, a member of the Church, though an
> unorthodox and not tremendously active one.  Gary is a good
> guy, a very bright teacher, a capable writer, and someone
> who, at the very least, wishes the Church well.  Avenging
> Angel, which I do not regard as his best work, is quite
> engaging and well researched.

Did someone say he was anti-Mormon?  Did I miss that?  Doh!  I'd have
spoken up for him if I had noticed.  I enjoyed Avenging Angel a lot.  It
wasn't a "great" movie by any means, but it was entertaining, pretty
accurate to the period (no glaring errors or license taken), and Brigham
Young was COOL.  In all, it was a so-so story interestingly told.  I
didn't think it was anti at ALL.  And it was both informed and unbiased.

Jacob Proffitt






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ben Christensen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] BYU Professor Problems
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:59:41 -0700

My computer just deleted Margaret Young's comment from last week, so I can't
directly quote it. However, it got me thinking about the experiences I have
had in the last few years as an English major at BYU. Perhaps by sheer
coincidence, I've never had a class where the sort of problem that Margaret
was describing occurred. But, I have noticed a subgroup of English students
that honestly bothers me. Let me explain:

Last year I took a class on Young Adult literature. The majority of students
in the class were English Teaching majors (i.e. they are certifying to teach
English in high school). The class itself, and my professor, were both very
good and intellectually stimulating. However, I detected among my fellow
students some who seemed to have the distinct attitude that they were not
just training to teach literature and writing, but to teach certain moral
values as well. I know that teachers do have a responsibility to convey some
sort of ethics/morals, but there are some future teachers at BYU that seem
to feel that that is the sole purpose for which literature was created. The
overall favorite book in the class was The Giver, by Lois Lowry, which is an
allegorical novel with a clear message. It is an excellent book, but I felt
that quite a few people liked it primarily because it had a clear message
and any evil in it was obviously a bad thing. Also, quite a few students
were upset because we had to read a book by a particular author who often
writes about gay/lesbian issues; one girl expressed disbelief because the
author "seemed to be saying that being a lesbian is a good thing".
(Actually, yes, that probably is the attitude of the author. Some people in
the world really do feel that way, and I can accept it even though I really,
really, disagree with it.)

Like I said, I enjoyed the class, but it really made me question how we, as
Mormons, view literature in our culture. The overall feeling seems to be
that literature, especially for young people, is an extremely powerful
force. From the time we start nursery, we hear stories at home and at church
that are supposed to help us learn something. Our religion itself has at its
core a book--we are a very "story-centered" people. Unfortunately, I think
many people come to have the attitude that all literature teaches a clear
message, and if it contains something "evil", the message must be advocating
evil. I'm not denying that literature has power, but how can we get people
to look at the less didatic aspects of literature? Do we have to "liken
EVERYTHING to ourselves"? (I guess what I mean, is, do we always have to ask
"what can I get out of this?") Reading a book can be a wonderful experience,
even if you don't come away feeling like you've learned an important lesson.
It makes me sad that there are people who miss out on aesthetic pleasures
because they are concentrating so hard on what they are supposed to be
"learning".

Jessie Christensen




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: [AML] Re: Pain and Art (was: New Age Mormons?)
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:07:00 -0700

Isaac Walters wrote:

>>>It seems to me that both this response and the statement it was
responding to both fall prey to the same fallacy:  that an artist has to
suffer in order create great art. <<<

Excellent point.

I didn't mean to suggest that all art had to be the result of suffering by the
author; rather, I was arguing that the suffering that leads to certain kinds of
literature need not be on an epic scale or require the death of millions to be
just as valid and powerful. Mormons are inherently no more or less capable of
the kind of pain that has led many to write timeless stories.

But I will go ahead and bite on the argument--is pain neccesary to good
literature? You use the examples of those who write of a yearning for the
divine. Isn't that very yearning a real form of personal pain? Yearning happens
only after long denial, after extended unfulfilled desire. Not a shocking pain
or sudden injury, but rather an extended unfulfilled hope, a nearly constant
ache for something wonderful--with the implication of a sense of loss at not
realizing it.

So while I'll grant that an author need not suffer any particularly great
catastrophe to write great literature, the nature of story is to explore the
fact of pain--be it emotional, physical, or spiritual, be it the the pain of
sudden loss or the search for something unseen but hoped for. To tell the story
well, the author must know that pain at a more than surface level. There's no
requirement that the author suffer the pain themselves, but there is an
essential need that the author have considered that kind of pain from very close
and that the author be deeply (perhaps even intimately) familiar with it to
portray it well.

There are greater and lesser pains (I strive to be as great a pain as I can),
but it seems to me that the essential requirement of conflict in fiction is
dissonance--aka, pain. Maybe small pain. Maybe simple yearning. But without some
darkness against which to depict the light the story stops short of great, I
think.

One of the real frustrations I have about modern literature is the absence of
joy within the pages of the story to counterbalance all that wonderfully morbid
pain. It's popular (and fun) to explore failure and despair, but just as
happiness has limited meaning without pain to act as balance, the reverse is
equally true. Yet we seem anxious to leave the joy, reward, and well-being parts
out of the story. In our efforts not to be simplistic and sentimental, it seems
that many authors fail to recognize the real hope that is the preferred outcome
of pain.

Maybe the hardest thing of all is to do both convincingly within the same story.
I'm not sure it's been done all that often.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:18:19 -0800

I think Richard should use a scene like this in "Brigham City II".
It would be priceless, in my opinion.

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA

----- Original Message ----- 
> 
> Richard, as a cop for 12 years, my husband told me many, many
> stories of people he stopped for violations from speeding to
> suspected drunken driving who managed to pull their temple
> recommends from their wallets instead of their drivers licenses.
> "Oops, my mistake officer." Yeah, right.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 21:21:20 -0800

I assure you the crack Sugarbeet staff is already on the case.

Kathy Tyner
Orange County, CA


----- Original Message -----
> Well now, Seagull is also taking the moral high ground, or "always" has?
> Hmm.  I think Seagull is in a safe holding pattern mentality.  We'll all
> have to wait and see what DB really pulls from their shelves.  If someone
> can get a list of DB's "banned books," let's publish it.  Keep your eyes
> peeled.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Derek1966@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy=20
Date: 22 Nov 2002 00:24:38 EST


In a message dated 11/21/02 08:31:06 PM, mathurle@yahoo.com writes:

<< If the Church is true then why shouldn't it's bookstores be as well? >>

Just out of curiosity....what exactly makes a bookstore "true"?

John Perry




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "gtaggart" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Missionary Farewells/Homecomings
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:28:10 -0800

Eric's story of the shy Elder's farewell, reminded me of my son's
farewell.  He, too, was very shy.  But he finally decided he wanted to
serve a mission and next thing we knew, it was the day before his
farewell.  

"How's your talk coming son?"

"It's coming," he replied.

A few hours later, and after seeing him sleep and eat and do about
everything but work on his talk, "How's that talk coming?"

"I'll be ready," he responded.

This went on and on, Saturday, Sunday morning, and finally we're sitting
on the stand.  I'm sitting immediately to the left of the podium, and
he's sitting to my left.  The Bishop and his counselors are sitting to
the right of the podium.

After a talk and a song, it's time for my son to speak.  His
grandmother, aunts, uncles, cousins, and mother had all traveled 500+
miles to hear him speak, but all he could manage was about a one and a
half minute talk.  Words failed him.  Whatever preparation he'd done
failed him.  All he could do was sputter to a close and mumble, "In the
name of Jesus Christ, amen," then turn from the podium towards his seat
while punctuating his sermon with a quite, but audible, "S**t."
Fortunately, it was only audible to me--I think. 

I smiled, squeezed his knee, and waited two years when, having finally
learned the Gospel, he delivered a fine, but not as colorful, sermon.

Greg Taggart  







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Johnson 
Subject: [AML] Mormon (and Other) Culture
Date: 22 Nov 2002 00:43:44 -0500

I have been resisting the urge to contribute to the discussion of DB's new
policy and the resurgence of the discussion of the narrowness of Mormon,
or, more accurately Utah Mormon society.

 As a personal and political conservative (you never would have guessed
that, would you?) who is gradually slip-sliding toward a  libertarian line
of thought, my conclusion about Deseret Book is, "So What".  Wal Mart, not
only has the right, but it has the ongoing policy of ceasing to carry
merchandise that fails to meet certain criteria.  It also, as a matter of
policy moves the merchandise around to different areas of the store or
department in order to force the customer to examine new groups of
merchandise  while looking for the old familiar stuff.  I have cursed those
policies many times, but I seem to still go to Wal Mart.  No one forces me
to go into a store that irritates me, but I find that the advantages
frequently trump the disadvantages.

  Deseret Book, as a company, has, as far as I'm concerned the absolute
right to sell, or not to sell anything that is legal.  They may establish
policy ,and I, as a customer have the right to weigh the disadvantages and
advantages of patronizing their store(s) or not.  Actually for me, the
major disadvantage is that the nearest DB is about two thousand miles away,
so that decision is postponed till I travel west.

As an old (in _many_ ways) member of the list, I am a bit reluctant to jump
into the culture fray because it recurs every few years, and I am afraid
I'm going to say what I said last time.  (On the other hand, I reread a lot
of the posts and they said what they had said before, so I guess the onus
is off- at least a little.)

I live in Georgia.  When I moved here, I moved into a small town near the
university (then "college").  My family and I experienced almost every type
of negative feedback mentioned in the notes about Utah.  

When we moved in, I became the Cub Master for the local Cub Scout
organization.  It met in the First Baptist Church but was for the entire
community (Our church didn't have Cubs at the time, in fact, mine was the
only family in the branch that had boys of Cub age)

We blissfully tried to get into the community but one day, about two months
into our residency, my second grader came home with the question "Daddy,
are you a Communist?"  I assured him that, as a long time officer in the
Rhode Island Republican Club, and  as a campaigner and voter for Barry
Goldwater, I didn't qualify as a Communist.  His reply was that he heard
the Principal tell his teacher that I was a Communist.  The fact was, that
I had almost shoulder length hair, a beard,  wore a beret (that part is a
little embarrassing), taught theatre at the college, and moved to Georgia
from New York State, and in 1970, to a Red Neck cretin of a principal, that
spelled Communist.

A short time later, my oldest son had a birthday.  He had invited several
of his friends to a party, and I had talked to their parents who were sure
that their children would come.  No one did.  At his tenth birthday no one
was present but our family.  In December,  my wife ( a den mother) and I
arrived at the first Baptist church for Pack meeting.  My old Ford
Econoline was packed with crafts that boys had made for Christmas gifts for
their parents.  We went to the room where Pack meeting was to be held, to
find a choir practice was in process.  I wandered around the building till
I found the Youth Minister who said "Didn't anyone tell you? We've
cancelled Cub Scouts".  I went from house to house delivering the boys
crafts and found it difficult to get people to take things that their own
children had made.

>From that point, things in the community spiraled downward.  One grocery
store (there were only two) refused us service.  When spring came and our
boys wanted to join little league, they did, but we discovered later that
their coach had to fight with two of the fathers (to the bloodshed level)
to establish their right to be part of the team. 

Suffice it to say that we moved as soon as we could get out of our lease
(about a year).   We moved to another small town, about the same size.  We
were a bit nervous, but it turned out to be a glorious experience.  I was
back in the Cub Scouts (almost five years - my current pharmacist was one
of my scouts). Our children were accepted, as were we.  I had a problem
with school prayer.  One of my children was being thoroughly indoctrinated
into the Baptist faith by one of his teachers, but, Statewide, they
eliminated school prayer (and I, for one was and am pleased by that) and I
was saved from having to confront that teacher.  On the other hand, our
children's friends were Baptists and Methodists, and finally our boys
joined the Young Ambassadors (not a BYU singing group out here, but the
approximate  equivalent of primary)and the girls, the equivalent group, the
name of which I cannot remember but I think it was one of the Biblical
women's names.  The teachers were very careful not to indoctrinate our
kids.  One of the tasks the boys had was to write letters to missionaries.
Our kids wrote to Mormon Missionaries, which got a chuckle or two out of
some of our friends.

What I am getting at, is that it is not a particularly Mormon
characteristic to close ranks against what is perceived as the "other" nor
is it a particularly Mormon characteristic to open arms and embrace the
"other" .  These are both human characteristics that exist in almost all
societies, religions, etc.  The openness or closed ness is community,
tradition and peer established, and you will find it everywhere.  I was a
missionary in Finland.  Some cities had a tradition of openness and welcome
and those were great places to work.  Others are closed and narrow for a
variety of reasons, and those were more difficult.
My small towns in Georgia were called "Portal" and "Brooklet".  I still
find ways to avoid even driving _through_ Portal, and will go several miles
out of my way to do so.  When I was Branch President here, one of my most
unpleasant tasks was serving those members who lived in Portal.   Brooklet,
on the other hand is a joy to visit, even though I don't live there
anymore.  The membership of the church has grown so much in Brooklet that I
see a time, not too far down the road when they will have their own "unit".
 They already have their own seminary program etc. 
Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com)
Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director,
Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool.
I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important
http://www.PuppenRich.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thom Duncan" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 22:48:38 -0700

> As a business owned by a
>church, a church which not only bears the name of
>Jesus Christ but proclaims to be directly led by Him,
>the standards of all it's enterprises must reflect His
>will. I think it's pretty impressive that the Church
>even owns a chain of bookstores. I'm impressed that
>the Church has as large of a publishing arm as it does
>with such a wide selection of materials.=20

Then, to be totally consistent, they will have to stop publishing and
selling the Bible.  The book starts off with two naked people cavorting
in a garden, moving soon to two sons and the murder of one by the other.
Not long after that, we have a guy having sex with his two daughters,
and so on... And, despite what one might thingk if one's only
acquaintence with the Old Testament is Sunday School lessons, not every
such story in the OT has a moral judgement attached to it.  Read Judges
19 and tell me where the act this man performs -- that of cutting up his
wife in twelve pieces and sending one package of mutiltated body parts
to each of tribe of the House of Israel -- is condemned by the Lord.
Are we then to assume, by His silence, that it is His will to commit
murder and mutilation?  

What is his will?  The Lord includes in his books, which we believe he
inspired, stories of adultery, masturbation, murder, mutilation,
prostitution, divorce, drunkenness, lust.  If such topics are all right
for the Scriptures, they ought to be all right for Mormon writers.

Thom Duncan






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone_ (Review)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 08:40:30 +0000

Title: The Keystone: The Day Alma Died
Author: b. v. cheyenne (pseudonym), with Glen E. Sudbury and
Michael E. Coones.
Publisher: Keystone Project.  Salt Lake City.
2002.  749 pages.    www.keystoneproject.com

I have read a variety of bad Mormon novels in the last couple
of years, and my patience with them is getting thinner and
thinner.  At first glance The Day Alma Died looked like it might
be the worst of all.  All the immediate signs were very bad.
First of all it is a huge, 750-page self-published book, almost
always a sign of an author who let himself blather on for pages
without the restraining hand of an editor or publisher.  Then
there was the ugly cover design, the Book of Mormon setting
(scriptural stories are favorite playgrounds for bad authors),
and the wordy and condescending introduction.  In it the creators
claim they are writing a new kind of Mormon literature, unlike
most Mormon authors who have tried to imitate the literature of
the world.  They say that they hope it will be the first in a 30-
volume series. Wow, I'm thinking, this could be monumentally bad,
bad on a whole new scale.  In a way, however, the novel seemed to
exude such a strong desire to do something good, that it actually
got me rooting for it.

So, I read it.  I didn't read the whole thing, mind you, that
was beyond me.  I read the first half, and skimmed the second
pretty quickly, my life is too short.  Yes, it was bad, but I
found some positives that helped me go further into it than I
thought I might. I found myself admiring the creators for their
vision and effort.  A lot of imagination, research, and a few
good stories lay beneath the corpulent verbiage of the book.
Perhaps if they invest in a good editor or two for any future
volume the good parts will be allowed to come up and breathe.

Let me back up.  The author's name is a pseudonym.  According to
the introduction there are three creators of the series, with
Glen E. Sudbury apparently the leader.  The story follows the
lives of 20 or so characters over one day, based on Alma chapter
45.  Alma 45 would not pop out at me as an obvious choice as a
place to start a series, in it Alma blesses his son Helaman, prophesies, and=
=20
then disappears.  Helaman and the other Church
leaders then go about trying to strengthen the Church.  That is
it.  But actually many of the more interesting characters of the
Book of Mormon would have been alive at that time.  Besides Alma
and Helaman, there is Ammon, Captain Moroni, Teancum, and
Amalickiah, who first appears in Alma 46.  The central plot in
this novel is Helaman and the other Church leaders becoming aware
of the popular judge Amalickiah's (spelled AmAalakYah here)
plotting to destroy the Church and take power, and their initial
steps to stop him.

Well, I'll start with the good.  The creators did an excellent
job of world-creation, and not just because they had 750 pages in
which to do it.  Obviously they went to a lot of trouble
researching Mesoamerican cultures and imagining how the Book of
Mormon narrative could have fit into them.  They list Joseph
Allen, a well-known Book-of-Mormon-lands author, as their main
source.  They follow Allen who, like John Sorenson, has
hypothesized that the events of the Book of Mormon took place in
the Mayan areas of present-day southern Mexico and Eastern
Guatemala.  Some of the works most interesting passages are the
descriptions of the tensions in Zarahemla society, with its
mixture of Nephites, Mulekites, some converted Lamanites, and
aboriginal peoples.  They create (to my uninformed eyes) very
believable and detailed portrayals of hunting, marketplace
behavior, entertainment, and worship customs.  Using Mayan
language scholarship, they figured out possible Mayan
etymologies of many Book of Mormon names, and adjusted the
spelling and pronunciation of them accordingly.  This attention
to detail is also found in the 46 fairly well-done illustrations
by Michael E. Coones.  It has a high-quality hardback binding.
A lot of work went into making this book.

Some of the many subplots are also quite interesting.  The best
is Ammon and his divided family.  His two oldest daughters are
unwilling to accept his young second wife, one of the Anti-
Nephi-Lehites he converted, and he is apparently unaware of how
general Nephite society shuns her.  Also, he rediscovers two
illegitimate sons he fathered and abandoned during his young
rebellious years, and tries to gain their forgiveness and help
them reform their evil ways.  Several of the characters are well
drawn, especially Ammon, his daughters, and Moroni.  In general,
however, there is just too much going on, and not enough.  The
main story is not very engaging, and the narrative jumps around
to various sub-plots.  Great authors can sometimes pull off
novels on such a large, multi-character scale.  I give the
creators credit for their ambition, but the scale was beyond
their reach.

Okay, then there is the writing.  Oh, long and terrible is the
prose of this book.  Verily, it often caused my teeth to gnash
and my head to rock with pain.  Cursed be the day-the very day!-
that Brother chyenenne chose to go without an editor.

I mean, jeez, where do I start.

Okay, how about this, on p. 35-36.  Here the evil Lord AmAalakYah
has an interior dialogue, which supposedly lasts only a few
seconds before he begins to address the people during a festival,
but covers four long pages.  I'll spare you most of it.
"There is no hurry, I think.
Today I will proceed with regal deliberation=97
Instead of my usual eagerness and ambition.
I am Lord AmAalakYah.
Lord AmAalakYah of the Silver Coat!
Unpredictability is my stock in trade.
Slowly I drop my arms.  Deliberately I fold them across my chest
as if in submission before the crowd.  I raise my eyes and look
out across the plaza toward the so-called Holy Mountain of the
Lord.  My agents or spies have informed me that even at this
moment Alma and HeLaman are meeting privately within the
confines of the prayer chamber, rather than joining us here.  I
have also been informed that Prince Ammon is near at hand, ever
the lackey of the chief high priest.  But my agents have not been
able to determine the purpose of the meeting in the prayer room
and this annoys me.  I pride myself in knowing all that is taking
place in the city and beyond, but in this regard I am left empty
and this is a significant point.  The possible importance of such
a meeting, at this time, during festival, under these
circumstances, is worthy of my keenest interest and speculation.
As an accomplished student of history, I am well aware of the
traditional stories and superstitions surrounding the Festival of
the New Year.  In particular, I am familiar with the story of King
Benjamin the Humble-the people's king, so called.  How he passed
the scepter of kingship and power of his throne to his son MosiHah
the Good on the last day of just such a festival fifty years ago
to this very day.
Now that was a time, I think.
And this could be another!"

Oh, by the way, the whole four pages are all in italics, a
favorite punctuation trick of the authors.  Over and over again
the author spends pages and pages describing one little thought
or action.  That can work if the author is an artist with words,
but b. v. chyenne is no artist, let me tell you.

Then there is the dialogue.  Sometimes, it reminds me of those
bad historical pageants, where they use dialogue to tell the
back-story.  You know, "Menius, this spot reminds me of the time
when the Prince killed the King!"  "Yes Scabius, that terrible
day lives in my heart as a canker still.  How the Prince took
the sword, even the royal sword, and ran it through his innocent
breast!  The people sorrowed over the loss of the good King, but
we could do nothing to stop him from taking power." (sorry, I
made that up)  You know what I mean, reviewing the story in an
obvious, unnatural way.  Conversations like that are rife in this
book.

There are lots of typos.  The is a constant use-annoying and
frequent it is!-of rhetorical asides.  Cartoonish villains.
Maybe worst of all is the strange combination of scriptural-
sounding language with modern idioms.  My favorite is, "He
certainly is getting to big for his breechclot (sic), isn't
he?," a nice combination of rewording a modern idiom and a
typo.

Okay, enough of that.  I can certainly see throughout how sincere
and earnest the creators were.  They apparently hoped to do the
same thing as the Book of Mormon does, and in some of the same
ways.  The main point of the work is to teach gospel principles,
about which thy are not subtle.  The book is thoroughly didactic,
including an omniscient narrator who constantly comments on the
good or evil of the characters' thoughts and actions.
Additionally, the seen and unseen presence of angels and demons
is frequently commented upon.  While I applaud the author's
intentions, prose which is both didactic and appealing to a
reader is some of the most difficult to pull off, and I am afraid
the author fell short of the mark.

So far the best pieces of literature based on the Book of Mormon
are those that have gone at it somewhat slant.  The main two I
can think of are Orson Scott Card's Homecoming series, which
resets the story in a science fiction future, and Eric
Samuelson's play Gadianton, which depicts modern LDS characters
struggling with Book of Mormon themes.  I think a straight-ahead
historical fiction approach could also work on some levels.
Unfortunately, I have yet to read any which makes my list of
good literature.

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 15:07:58 -0700

Jim Cobabe wrote:

> Perhaps the tacit refusal of LDS authors to submit to constructive direction
> and thus create works that fully comply with LDS standards has actually
> forced the new policy.  It would be supremely ironic if the arrogant
> overinsistence of LDS authors on absolute literary self-determination has
> destroyed the biggest potential commercial marketing channel for their
> products.

Oh, my gosh! Jonathan, I'm trying really hard, honest I am. Hold me
back, please!

Shall we talk about arrogance? Shall we talk about how these Deseret
Book types are taking their personal value system and demanding that the
whole church accept it as if God himself had declared it? Shall we
discuss how one person's opinion of "appropriate" has been elevated to
the lofty status of "LDS standards"?

Someone bought Richard Paul Evans new book from Deseret Book and didn't
like something in it. That someone came in and protested. This person
wasn't content to say, "I didn't like the book. I want a refund." That
person demanded that the book be removed from the shelves of Deseret
Book, because, according to that person's PERSONAL standards, the book
wasn't "safe." And that person's PERSONAL standards are supposed to be
the standards of Deseret Book, every Deseret Book patron, and the whole
church. That person wants to do all in his/her power to keep that book
out of the hands of fellow Latter-day Saints, because that person knows
best what's good for everybody.

Where's the arrogance?

Fortunately, the power of that person to accomplish such a thing is
severely limited, thanks to the inspired document called the
Constitution with its first amendments rights. But the intent is there,
and the person acts upon it to the best of his/her ability.

The power is greater than one might think, though. The book has been
removed from Deseret Book's shelves. There have been some who try to
argue that that's just fine--DB is a niche bookstore, those who want
"safe" havens of book-shopping environments ought to be able to have
them. And if that's all that was at stake, they'd be right.

But this argument leaves a vital element out of the equation. Deseret
Book is owned by the Church. Deseret Book is the publisher of record for
the Church--whether intentionally or by de facto tradition is
irrelevant. If DB bans a book, that book is "smut," as we've seen
illustrated on this very list. If DB bans a book, the author of that
book feels obligated to stand up and publicly say, "I am a good member
of the church," as Richard Paul Evans recently did. And why? Because DB
has the power to besmirch the reputation of an author, intentional or
otherwise.

DB is the definer of what's "appropriate," what's "safe." DB is the
standard work for publications. And yes, DB is also the only option many
Saints have to purchase LDS books in many locales throughout the world.

All this descends from one evil: the unwillingness of certain Saints to
think for themselves; their desire to be handed spiritual safety on a
silver platter. I say with great emphaticness, with great sincerity,
that this is the plan of Satan. "Safe" was rejected in the council in
heaven. But we can sure see today why one-third of the hosts of heaven
lost their souls over that enticing "safe" plan. Even among the
two-thirds who rejected it, many are eager to adopt it anew in this
life. No risk, no responsibility, no work in thinking and deciding. Let
the leaders of the church do their thinking for them, from the President
down to the Bishop. Let the Ensign do their thinking for them. Let
Deseret Book do it.

This is the plan of Satan rearing its ugly head all over again. This is
the antithesis of the plan of salvation, where we learn, experience,
grow, progress. I say that anything which interferes with people's
progression is objectively wrong--not just my subjective personal
opinion. I say that consuming a diet of nothing but safe, uplifting,
feel-good literature (which in the past we've dubbed "fluff") is
spiritual starvation. And I shall certainly take a stand against
starvation, loudly, passionately.

Now, thanks to that marvelous inspired document, the Constitution, I
have no more power to force others to think my way than they have to
keep Evans' book out of my hands. But I do have what power I have, which
is to study the issue, contemplate it, and come to my best judgment on
what is right and wrong, then try to convince others of my conclusion. I
recognize that many opinions which I hold are mere opinions, fallible
and subject to modification, if not outright overhaul. But on this issue
I am convinced that an objective principle is at stake. An exclusive,
lifetime diet of literary "fluff" is destructive to one's eternal
progression.

Should the fluff be done away with? Certainly not! Are people genuinely
moved by safe, uplifting things according to the DB definition of safe
and uplifting? I'm sure they are. Is there an audience for it that
should be served? Absolutely!

What I object to is the arrogant absolutism that this audience indulges
in: that their safe fluff is the only appropriate uplifting material
that members in good standing should produce and consume, and they will
use whatever power they have to make sure that comes true. What I object
to is the rampant cultural belief that such stymying of progression is
good, uplifting, and God's will. The arresting of progress is damnation.
I firmly believe the lifelong consumption of nothing but fluff is
damning.

Fluff (itself an arrogant term, but it's too convenient to type to
avoid) is a useful commodity in the LDS literary market. People are at
different levels in their intellectual, emotional, and spiritual
development. Such development is not even a straight-line spectrum. I'm
sure there are plenty of people whom I consider intellectual inferiors
who are spiritually advanced well beyond my level. Fluff should exist
for people who are at a level where it speaks to them. Line upon line,
precept upon precept.

The problem is, "line upon line" doesn't exist in the "safe"
environment. In that environment the passage just reads: "line." No
"upon line" ever occurs. I should sit back and smile with peacemaking
beatification over that?

When kindergartners read Dick and Jane, we consider that a fine thing,
because that's the level they're at in their development. But if a
40-year-old is still reading Dick and Jane as his principle literary
diet, everyone recognizes that something is terribly wrong.

So why do we think adults reading a lifetime of spiritual Dick and Jane
is a perfectly fine thing?

Thanks to that certain Inspired Document--and the war in heaven--we have
precious little power to get people in that predicament to change, at
least precious little righteous power. But we do have the power granted
to us in the Doctrine and Covenants: to persuade. I shouldn't try to
wrest the fluff out of someone's hand (even as they try to wrest their
idea of smut from mine), but I sure don't need to sit back and watch
them vegetate. I can exercise what power I have to persuade them to
expand their horizons. I can speak out and criticize trends in our
culture that tend to reinforce such lack of growth. Like Deseret Book
banning Richard Paul Evans because he clashes with LDS standards.

And I can certainly defend my definition of "appropriate" and
"uplifting" when it is (inevitably, repeatedly) denounced and attacked.
I have LDS standards too, and fluff clashes with them.

Nobody has to give up fluff--ever. Not even in my idea of a utopian
world. But to spend one's life consuming it and nothing else--that's
just plain unhealthy.

I read the comics every Sunday. Now there's fluff for you. But that's
not all I read. And is there an adult alive who, coming across a
teenager who reads nothing but comic books, wouldn't consider it a good
thing to try toi persuade that teenager to sample a few things with a
little more meat? Not give up comic books--for heaven's sake, why?--but
to add a little variety to the diet, a little nutrition.

Where is the arrogance? Among LDS authors? Please: all we want is to be
able to decide for ourselves what we think is worth writing, and not be
called reprobates for the choice. All we want is to encourage people to
expand their horizons a bit, to rethink some of their lifelong,
unquestioned assumptions, to--dare I say it?--progress. If they don't,
oh well, their choice.

Do you think Levi Peterson was out to arrogantly rub his views in the
face of the LDS readership and make everybody spiritually squirm when he
wrote _The Backslider_? No, he just had a story he felt strongly about
and wanted to communicate to whomever would listen. Next thing he knew,
he was being condemned by self-righteous Saints, and interrogated by his
bishop over his standing as a member.

Do you think Richard Paul Evans set out to write smut and arrogantly
challenge the spiritual sensibilities of LDS members? Hardly. He just
thought of a story that meant something to him and was worth his time to
commit to paper. Suddenly Deseret Book is banning him and he's defending
his righteousness in press conferences.

Do you think I wrote _Brother Brigham_ (a book Sheri Dew would sprain
her back in her haste to ban) to challenge, offend, corrupt? Well, some
of you might think I really did, but the truth is, I just thought of a
story that sounded interesting and fun to write, so I wrote it,
employing all my skills as a writer to make it as real and honest as I
could. And I've had someone tell me the book is anti-Mormon and I was
evil for writing it.

There was no arrogance among these authors as they sat down to write a
book. They just had a story they felt passionate about--passionate
enough to invest tremendous time, effort, and emotional exposure--and
decided to share it with others. Then (in the words of Frank Burns) the
spit hit the spam, and they found their spiritual reputations on the
line. All because their view of "appropriate" clashed with somebody
else's--somebody who believed they were the official pronouncer of LDS
standards.

Maybe those authors indulged in a bit of strong, even arrogant,
backlashing at that point, but geez, can you blame them?

No, the arrogance lies in those Saints who wallow in intellectual,
emotional, and spiritual mediocrity, and call that righteousness, call
it the council of President Hinckley, call it the will of the Lord. Then
go out and try to force that standard on everybody else.

"If you don't think like me, you're evil."

It's that attitude that's evil. And arrogant.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 21 Nov 2002 15:46:14 -0700

Matthew Lee wrote:

> As a business owned by a
> church, a church which not only bears the name of
> Jesus Christ but proclaims to be directly led by Him,
> the standards of all it's enterprises must reflect His
> will.

I'd like to read that revelation: the one where Jesus Christ dictates
the standards of Deseret Book offerings.

If it doesn't exist, then the DB policy is not reflecting his will, but
the interpretations of human beings as to what is appropriate or not.
Not only do I disagree with DB's interpretation of what qualifies as LDS
standards, but I find their interpretation to be offensive. But of
course, no one cares if someone like me is offended. Only Molly Mormon.


> I think it's pretty impressive that the Church
> even owns a chain of bookstores. I'm impressed that
> the Church has as large of a publishing arm as it does
> with such a wide selection of materials.

Wide and shrinking fast.


> Knowing that an outlet is owned by the Church, patrons
> will surely except the materials carried there to
> reflect the mission of the Church. And they should.

KSL television station is owned by the church. Do you suppose every
program on that station reflects the mission of the church? No, and
there's no reason for it to, because it's not being micromanaged by the
church. And everyone in Salt Lake City understands that.

So what's so hard about taking that same attitude toward Deseret Book,
and not assuming everything in their is, or even should be, "squeaky
clean"?


> If the Church is true then why shouldn't it's bookstores
> be as well?

Come again? "I'd like to bear my testimony that I know this bookstore is
true."


> Why shouldn't it have the same standards
> as those outline in the pamphlet "For the Strength of
> Youth" or in General Conference talks?

Because it's not a pamphlet for youth or a religious worship service.
It's a bookstore. Just like KSL is a television station.


> Of course they
> will have a narrower selection but that's kind of the
> point isn't it?

No, the point is that people see DB as something more than what it is: a
bookstore. They somehow think that, like General Conference speeches and
Ensign articles, Deseret Book policy is modern-day scripture. Get rid of
that bizarre attitude and I'll grant everything defenders of DB policy
are saying. But that attitude exists.


> Members of the Church in
> the South go to these outlets because they are the
> only places where we can get items related the Church
> without making special orders

Except the banned ones, of course. But Deseret Book isn't taking away
people's choices.


> I just don't think Deseret Book owes anyone an
> explanation for it's choices and it's certainly has no
> obligation to the public to carry the titles people
> want to buy.

If it was nothing more than a bookstore, you'd be right. But it is more,
whether it intends to be or not. So it's choices have far-reaching
effects, because it has power and influence beyond what it probably
shoudn't have.


> They are a very unique operation. It's
> not a business in operation solely for the sake of
> being a business.

You might be surprised how much they are a business. Even this
supposedly moral-based policy is a business decision, not a moral one,
so they say.


> As I said at the beginning, just be grateful that you
> have Deseret Book stores for now and that they carry
> as much as they do. If it does not fit in with the
> mission of the Church, with the needs of the people,
> or if other equal resources become available to the
> people, then Deseret Book will be dropped from the
> umbrella of Church just like other ventures have in
> the past.

That might not be a bad idea. The whole LDS publishing industry might be
better off without a perceived "official" publishing house.

And certainly Covenant Publishing would be happy as clams.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Tracie Laulusa" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 22 Nov 2002 07:15:09 -0500

While it is true that the road from having feelings for someone can
lead to adultery, the having feelings for someone part is not
committing adultery.....yet.  (In my opinion)

It is one thing I have observed in Mormon culture, and while it may
also be in other Christian cultures, I haven't observed it there
because I'm not there.  Somehow we think we can control every little
thing that goes on in our minds.  I have found from personal
experience, and talked to enough people to know I'm not alone in that
experience, to know that you can not totally control thought and
feelings.  Thoughts pop into our minds, and feelings sometimes have
minds of their own.

Entertaining those thoughts and feelings is another thing.  Most of us
have the ability to choose what we do with those thoughts and feelings
once they are there.  However, even then sometimes getting rid of
them, or channeling them to another path can be a very long process.
More than humming a hymn in your mind for a few moments.  It may be
humming a hymn every time the thought or feeling comes around for the
next three years--or praying about it, seeking heavenly guidance,
instead of gratifying your own desires.

>From what you said of this particular book it doesn't sound like she
deliberately made a decision to seek out Michael or to cultivate her
feelings for him.  They were just there.  Maybe there was more to that
interlude than you had time to state in your post.  Does she want to
commit adultery or does she want to be happy?  Naturally, if she is in
a rotten relationship, something that offers an alternative looks
really good.  But she struggles with her feelings, sublimates them to
what she feels is right, and tries to make a go of her marriage.
Seems like a pretty moral and upright scenario.

That Stansfield maybe copped out with the
marry-Michael-and-live-happily-ever-after ending is another
consideration.  But this is, after all, LDS romance.  Not real life in
the nitty-gritty.  In real life in the nitty-gritty she probably would
have found herself with her feelings for Michael and wondered if she
was insane to suppose any man could be trusted after her experience
with Ryan, and dumped both of them.

Tracie Laulusa


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Levi Peterson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Need Info on Child Abuse Recovery
Date: 22 Nov 2002 05:57:10 -0800

----- Original Message -----
 I'm doing research on child sexual abuse recovery literature targeted to
Mormons or even Christians.  I know that Cheiko Okazaki has a talk on tape
about this, but I'm having a hard time finding any books, etc. written by a
Mormon, for a Mormon about dealing with sexual abuse.  If anyone has any
ideas, etc, please let me know.  Thank you.

Mary, I trust you are aware of Lavina Fielding Anderson's work on abuse of
many kinds in the church. I think you should address your request directly
to her.  She could give you good directions.

Levi Peterson
althlevip@msn.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kathy Fowkes" 
Subject: [AML] Cultural Info for Missionaries
Date: 22 Nov 2002 06:45:28 -0700

On another list a discussion has been underway this past week regarding
preparing missionaries' manners and cultural understanding. A number of
interesting anecdotal experiences were related and it occurred to me that
here was a great publishing opportunity. Perhaps it's already been done! I
don't know since I don't have a missionary son or daughter yet and have
never thought to look for it.

Someone (not me!) could write a great book tailored to the LDS market on the
customs and cultures of different missions all over the world. If marketed
right, it could become a missionary prep staple and be purchased by
missionaries-to-be and their parents for years to come. While it would take
a fair amount of research, the church's set up and long-standing missionary
program would allow for a relatively easy means of contacting both RMs from
particular areas as well as the members living in those areas. Anectdotal
stories of faux pas and success stories (like George's story - it doesn't
always have to be a missionary story) would make the book very readable and
enjoyable for any member of the church. It could also include bits and
pieces of historical and cultural information in sidebars. Lesser-known
facts like crossing your legs to make the shape of the cross in the church
at the birthplace of Jesus is very offensive would make the book very
interesting, IMO.

Just a thought.

Kathy Fowkes





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: r talley 
Subject: Re: [AML] Deseret Book says no to LDS author
Date: 22 Nov 2002 08:16:21 -0800 (PST)

om>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii
Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: aml-list

There seems to be some kind of notion that Deseret
Book will now decide which books we can and can't
read.  How ridiculous.  DB never has and never will
choose what I will read. =20

I happen to agree with their decision to review their
materials and make sure they support Church standards,
but no one will ever decide for me what I will and
will not read, view, or do--that's my choice.  In
fact, it's everyone's choice and for those who are
angry and outraged by DB's decision then don't buy
from DB.  It's quite simple.

I wonder, was there this kind of outrage at the
mainstream bookstores for not stocking all the LDS
titles and materials?  Has anyone stopped purchasing
from these big name retailers because they don't stock
what you wanted to buy? Has anyone started a petition?

I very much doubt that anyone from DB will be camping
on doorsteps forcing us to not purchase from other
retailers.  I also doubt that DB will come into our
homes and go through our personal collections and
force us to throw away what they deem unacceptable.

Frankly, I find it interesting that there seems to be
so much outrage at this policy.  Has anyone thought of
writing a petition to the video store down the street
because they no longer carry X-rated movies or R-rated
movies?  Some may argue that these films have some
sort of artistic value and should be available and if
they aren't, then somehow that video store is
violating our rights.

If you don't like DB's policy, shop somewhere else.=20
DB has every right to determine what it will and will
not carry. =20

I live nowhere near a DB, but when I do go into one, I
expect certain items, just as I expect certain items
at other stores.  I certainly wouldn't expect to buy a
"Happy Meal" at Home Depot and I wouldn't expect to
find something offensive at DB, I only expect Church
related materials.

Rebecca Talley

By the way, I don't think Evans is a particularly good
writer, in fact, after reading one of his books, I
decided I'd not read any more from him because I
simply don't care for his writing.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:15:17 -0700

I'm getting tired of talking about a book--Richard Paul Evans new one-- I =
haven't read, so yesterday I went merrily off to the BY Bookstore to read =
it.  Couldn't.  Sold out.  So I took my lunch break and went to Barnes and =
Noble.  They told me they'd gotten a shipment of 150 books that morning, =
and had sold all of 'em by 11 o'clock.  So I special ordered it from B and =
N.  I don't like his writing at all, and his sales seem to be doing just =
fine, but what the heck, make a statement.  I will never buy a book from =
DB again, but then I didn't buy from them much anyway, so it's not like =
they'll miss my business.

Okay, a few final musings on this topic:

A) Why am I so mad about this?  Why so much emotion expended?  Katie =
Parker said she respects DB's decision.  I don't.  So how come?

Fact is, DB is a niche bookstore, and I always figured they had pretty =
strict buying policies.  DB is not exactly the place I'd go first if I =
wanted to buy the latest David Foster Wallace or Jane Smiley novel.  =
Parallel case: let's suppose that DB announced that they weren't going to =
stock Robert James Waller's The Bridges of Madison County.  Seems like an =
appropriate parallel case to me; a not very good novelist, unaccountably =
popular, writing about folks contemplating an adulterous affair.  I mean, =
both writers even have three names.

So what would I think?  I wouldn't think a thing.  Bridges of Madison =
County strkes me as exactly the kind of book DB wouldn't carry.  I'd be =
utterly unsurprised, and certainly unoffended if they made such an =
announcement. =20

(Quick obligatory parenthetical aside: Bridges of Madison County really =
does romanticize an extramarital affair.  A bored and lonely married =
woman, alone on her farmhouse, meets and has a breathtakingly marvelous =
and romantic affair with a Mysterious Stranger, without really undergoing =
subsequent negative consequences.  This does not make Bridges an immoral =
book IMO.  I suspect that the Bridges readership is largely female, and =
that the women who read and enjoyed it did so as a kind of fantasy =
wish-fullfillment exercise, without themselves feeling any subsequent =
obligation to dash off to their local Motel 6 with the plumber. One =
utterly moral function of literature is to provide appealing and harmless =
fantasies, which, by providing satisfying vicarious experiences, blunts =
and undercuts the temptation we might otherwise have to behave as =
irresponsibly and immorally as the characters in the fantasies do.  James =
Bond films for guys, Bridges for women; in either case, the fantasy is a =
harmless one, and in fact, I posit, leads us to live more morally =
afterwards than we otherwise would.  In other words, Bridges of Madison =
County, although depicting a consequenceless and romanticized affair, is =
nonetheless not an immoral book.  End of obligatory parenthetical aside) =
=20

Okay, so DB wouldn't, presumably, carry Bridges.  That's a stand they've =
taken, and DB shoppers have come to expect it.  So why get all huffy about =
Richard Paul Evans?

Three reasons: first, in Evans' book, adultery is contemplated and =
rejected.  Temptation is not succumbed to.  This seems to me not a trivial =
concern.  Second, Evans is a prominent and successful LDS writer; he's one =
of us.  I don't think he's a very good writer, but I do think he's a very =
good man.  He absolutely does not deserve to be labeled a pornographer by =
DB. =20

But third, see, that's the biggie, that's the one that's got me huffing =
and puffing and blowing houses down.  Third is this; they've just moved =
the bar.

Imagine a continuum, a sliding scale of Audience Acceptibility In the =
Field of Mormon Literature.  At one end are the really good, utterly =
moral, writers who's work won't be seen at DB.  Levi Peterson and Neil =
Labute are down there.  Mainstream Mormon culture (and the Church =
institutionally) will always have problems accepting that work.  At the =
other end of the scale comes The Work and the Glory, the very quintessence =
of the DB novel.  In the middle is the stuff that's well written and good =
and challenging, but also not so challenging in terms of subject matter =
and language that mainstream Mormon culture can't accept it.  Margaret =
Young's Standing on the Promises series fits here.  Sometimes books like =
those might not meet the DB standard, but we can hope that mostly they =
will. =20

Well, with this decision, DB has taken a guy as completely safe and =
mainstream and totally unobjectionable in every regard--and as popular--as =
Richard Paul Evans, a guy who, if anything, is SAFER than the Work and =
Glory, and they've thrown him all the way off the map, past Margaret to =
someplace between Levi and Neil. That's frightening.  That just upsets the =
entire cultural universe.  And with that decision, works which, since =
they're neatly canonized as Classics Of World Literature, have always =
seemed culturally acceptable, are now also coming into question.  So from =
where I'm sitting, it looks like the Ayatollahs are winning.  It looks =
like this immense setback for Mormon literature.  It looks like my life in =
my ward, which is already reasonably tenuous and tension-fraught over =
cultural issues, is going to get more so.  DB matters.  Their opinion =
matters; they are seen in some circles as some kind of official Arbiters =
of Mormon Acceptability.  This looks like a cultural shift.  Amazingly =
enough, we're getting even MORE conservative.  Ouch.

B) What's with that reader survey? =20

I mean, what question did they ask?  I'm trying to imagine it, and the =
best I can come up with is something like this: 'If you saw a book that =
offended your moral sensibilities, would that make you more or less =
inclined to shop at DB?  Well, that's idiotic.  Of course, most folks are =
going to say 'more inclined' to that one.  I probably even would.  And I =
can't think of a better question.  Which is why I think that this survey =
of 350 readers either a) never happened, or b) was rigged to give someone =
the answers they wanted to hear.  I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the DB =
spin on this.  I think someone above Sherri Dew got hold of some advance =
blurb on Evans' novel and said 'we're not carrying this,' and the rest of =
this has been a frantic cover-up.  It sure looks like a cover-up.  Which =
leads to C)

C) For a Church that's obsessed with public relations, we sure suck at it. =
 Man, it's comical.  The secret to spin is to not make it look like you're =
spinning.  It's part of our culture, this whole 'will this make the Church =
look bad' dynamic.  And then something like this happens, and the Church =
looks terrible, and what's worse, KEEPS looking terrible, keeps the story =
alive for days on end, keeps offering 'clarifications' which do nothing =
but cast all the previous statements as suspicious.  It's really funny, in =
a mordant sort of way.  Reminds of the Rodin controversy, which was =
handled just about as badly. =20

Eric Samuelsen

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Need Info on Child Abuse Recovery
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:23:33 -0700

Mary Aagard wrote:

>I was then overcome with this panic, I thought people would only like my =
>story because they were taking pity on me, knowing that this had =
>happened to me personally.  I was afraid that actual events would =
>overshadow the writing and make it less worthwhile somehow.  Does >
anybody else have fears about this? =20

I happen to know this script of Mary's, and this is precisely what did not =
happen in my reading of it.  I found it so beautifully written, that the =
fact that it was also partly autobiographical didn't really factor into my =
response to it.  But, yes, I'd say this is a fear I have; I don't want the =
'but this happened to me' syndrome to color folks' impressions, like, I'm =
catching some kind of critical break somehow.  I remember Pauline Kael's =
review of Shoah, where she said 'the fact that this really happened should =
not blind ourselves to the fact that this isn't a very good movie about =
the event.'

Eric Samuelsen







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Barbara R. Hume" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 22 Nov 2002 10:38:55 -0700

At 10:31 PM 11/20/02, you wrote:
>A more realistic version of this would have Emily choosing to stay with Ryan,
>and then having to make that marriage work for another sixty years. This 
>would
>include overcoming her feelings for Michael.  Or perhaps she would leave Ryan
>and forge a new life alone, but there would be no Michael waiting for her.
>Probably the romance-reading crowd wouldn't buy it, though.

You're right!


barbara hume





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Bigelow 
Subject: [AML] Kieth Merrill on BOM Movies
Date: 22 Nov 2002 11:04:59 -0700

Kieth Merrill has a very interesting article on the two new Book of Mormon
movies at Meridian:

http://www.ldsmag.com/arts/021122movie.html

Chris Bigelow


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 11:54:57 -0700

Dorothy Peterson wrote:

> Obviously Deseret Book has the right to decide what they will sell or not
> sell.  I don't think that's at issue.  The problem is that if they won't
> sell Mormon Literature of a certain "type," whatever that "type" might be,
> other LDS publishers won't publish that "type."  That gives DB extraordinary
> power in the Mormon publishing marketplace, and it effectively limits the
> freedom of expression for Mormon writers.

I hate to make a semantic quibble, but the freedom to express and the freedom to
publish are entirely different issues. DB is not censoring the ability of
Mormons to say anything they want to, though they are limiting the venues in
which some freely expressed ideas are packaged and sold.

DB's power in the Mormon market does indeed give their decisions greater weight.
If DB has never carried Signature's titles (or at least not recently) then
perhaps I understand why Signature seems like such a great idea as a fiction
vendor, but their titles rarely seem to sell many copies. Perhaps it has less to
do with what the Mormon public is willing to buy as what the Mormon public is
being given access to in "their" cultural bookstore.

I've argued that Mormons don't know what they're missing because they haven't
been given a chance to see it--not because it's not being written or published
(I frankly think that Signature has published some excellent titles in the last
few years, _Heresies of Nature_ and _Falling Toward Heaven_ being two of them
offered within the past calendar year), but because Mormons aren't seeing it on
the shelves at Deseret Book. Seagull has apparently decided to be DB-Plus and
have even more stringent restrictions on what they stock or make available to
readers, effectively turning Mormon book retailing into a me-too contest of
competitive (self?) righteousness.

Tony Markham expressed a question about DB's motives in the effort:

"The new DB Policy could indeed be seen as a legitimate business decision if the
result is to reduce the sales of smaller Mormon Presses.  Some of these have
only a small margin of profitability and if certain of their titles were banned
from the major retailer for Mormon presses, then these upstarts could be nudged
out of business."

If this is indeed DB's business strategy, then small presses that have focused
on the LDS market and sold exclusively through LDS retailers (DB or Seagull)
could easily be driven out of business--unless they seek different retail and
distribution options. It's certainly an effective decision if that's the goal.

Maybe it really is time for Mormons to stake out a niche in the national market
with national publishers. Chris Bigelow is getting good initial response from
Harper San Francisco, and Kenny Kemp has just released a new title through them.
Maybe Mormons need to think about buying their more complex or aggressive
fiction from Barnes and Noble or Borders (neither of which are unknown in
Utah)--even their Mormon fiction.

There was a time when Mormondom needed its own regional press and retailer to
have any chance of placing books of specific Mormon interest on bookshelves. I'm
not sure that's true any more--or at least not the sole option. We can be a
substantial market force if we choose to be, and we have never been limited to
shopping only at LDS retailers.

It's time to cut the umbilical. It served a purpose once, but I'm not sure it's
doing us all that much good. Not any more.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: LSWeber@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 13:25:45 EST

In a message dated 11/22/2002 1:04:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dorothy@lds-index.org writes:


> [MOD: I think Dorothy raises an extremely important issue here. What impact 
> will this sales policy have on Mormon publishing? What percentage of the 
> LDS 
> bookstore market is through DB outlets?]
> 
> Obviously Deseret Book has the right to decide what they will sell or not
> sell.  I don't think that's at issue.  The problem is that if they won't
> sell Mormon Literature of a certain "type," whatever that "type" might be,
> other LDS publishers won't publish that "type."  That gives DB 
> extraordinary
> power in the Mormon publishing marketplace, and it effectively limits the
> freedom of expression for Mormon writers.
> 

I had an interesting conversation the other night with my business partner 
about this topic. She raised the issue that all good fiction requires 
conflict. While conflict can be expressed in many ways outside the 
protagonist, the most intense conflict a character encounters usually arises 
from within. Is it conflict in general that DB has issue with or specifically 
sexual conflict? What about conflicts with alcohol or drug addiction that the 
character faces, or conflicts with parents or family members? Aren't these 
all conflicts that the church teaches us to avoid? Will these types of books 
also be banned?

As a small publisher, I'm very interested in the question of what outlets 
will be available for the type of fiction we want to publish, which is what 
we call mainstream, or what some members here called midstream. Conflicts of 
all types are at the heart of this type of literature. I would hope that 
we'll be able to maintain some type of retail outlet for these kinds of 
books. Maybe the web is going to have to be the distribution channel of the 
future.

Lloyd the Lurker
(Lloyd Weber)


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Linda Adams 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 13:40:23 -0600

Just a quick note before I go on vacation for Thanksgiving.

I've been following this thread with a good deal of interest. I haven't 
read Evans' book either, but I get the definite idea that he might be 
promoting the concept that "emotional adultery"--the 'love story' in his 
book--as OK, and it definitely is not. So, I'm with Marilyn and Margaret on 
that. If that's what it is.

Where immorality is shown as an acceptable alternative, 
wickedness=happiness, or 'covenants aren't important if your spouse is a 
scumbag,' then I agree that DB shouldn't carry it. (I had the same concerns 
with the Stansfield book _first Love and Forever._) That's not to say 
Evans' book is "smut" or "explicit," which it most likely is not.

 >>The problem is that if they won't sell Mormon Literature of a certain 
"type," whatever that "type" might be, other LDS publishers won't publish 
that "type."  That gives DB extraordinary power in the Mormon publishing 
marketplace, and it effectively limits the freedom of expression for Mormon 
writers.
>Dorothy W. Peterson<<

This is nothing new at all. It's already true, and has been that way for 
years. ALL the smaller LDS publishers are *already* at the mercy of DB's 
willingness to carry their books on the shelves. DB's deciding not to carry 
a book (especially from an unknown writer/small pub. house) is the kiss of 
death. If you cannot market through Deseret Book (unless you *are* Richard 
Paul Evans and are also carried in national stores), your book will fail.

I was asked to remove two fairly mild sentences from _Prodigal Journey_ 
before publication, just in case a reader *might* complain and get the book 
pulled from the shelf. The publisher could not run that risk. I understood 
that, and made that small concession, although I still believe the scenes 
in question read better with those tidbits of information than without them.

Basically, I see this as an official announcement of an 
unwritten-but-enforced policy already in existence. The only thing new here 
is that they've made it public.



Linda Adams
adamszoo@sprintmail.com
http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo/linda







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ivan Angus Wolfe 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 22 Nov 2002 13:23:10 -0700 (MST)

> Okay, I'll take the bait.  I would have been VERY surprised if Deseret
> Book had decided to sell _Heresies of Nature_.  It has long been my
> understanding that DB has a policy on not selling Signature books.  (And
> incidentally, _BYU Studies_ won't review anything done by Signature.)

> [Margaret Young]


I assume we mean fiction on both points? I've seen DB carry nofiction by
Signature, and I've read reviews of nonfiction by Signature in BYU Studies.

--ivan wolfe





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:46:42 -0800

Katie Parker wrote:

	Maybe these people are shutting themselves off from some valuable =
reading=20
	material.  To each his own.  You snooze, you lose.  We have our free =
agency to=20
	choose, among many other things, what we're going to read.  That =
applies to=20
	everyone.  Maybe some of these people will consider themselves morally =
superior=20
	to lowlifes who read such things as (gasp!) _The Scarlet Letter_.  =
Again, they=20
	probably already did, anyway.  Such a stance doesn't seem morally =
correct to=20
	me, but who am I to judge anymore than anyone else? =20

I like the way Katie put this. If those 350 people who were surveyed (I =
agree with Katie - way too low a number to base any policy on) want to =
narrow their reading that much it is their loss.=20

I have always abided by this scripture:

	D&C 130:18 - 19
	18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it =
will rise with us in 	the resurrection.
	19 And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life =
through his diligence 	and obedience than another, he will have so much =
the advantage in the world to come.

I, along with Katie, will never judge anyone. Everyone has their reading =
preferences and has a right to choose. But, we should not narrow our =
horizons or we may not find all the "Truth" that there is in the world =
for us as individuals. Any guesses on if there will be a "Books Read" =
section in our book of life which will have what we read, why we read =
it, what we learned from it? Oh, my, another interesting vision of =
Heavenly Father at his Computer/Journal.=20

I do not read Gerald Lund's books either but that is because they do not =
appeal to me. I have other friends who swear by him. I would much rather =
read Margaret Young's. I only go to Deseret Book down here if there is a =
specific book I'm looking for which is Church published (i.e. DB or =
Seagull and most of the time as reference for a talk I'm giving on a =
specific subject). When I go to DB or Seagull it is for a book by an =
Apostle or like the fictional books about John the Beloved by Thomas Eno =
("My Name is John", "Awakening", and "Deep Water"). I like books that =
grab you right off not make you wait ten chapters to figure out what the =
heck is going on. I'm that way with Science Fiction as well as any other =
kind. I also go to DB and Seagull for the music and art but not for =
general fictional books. I can get else where. Way too narrow a =
selection to begin with.

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jerry Tyner" 
Subject: RE: [AML] New Age Mormons?
Date: 22 Nov 2002 17:11:46 -0800

Glen Sudbury Wrote:

	After all, the reasoning goes, isn't a bit presumptuous to read =
literature, poets, when we 	already have "the most correct book ever =
written?"

	Besides that our language of the restoration suggests to some almost an =
overwhelming amount of 	truth already in our possession.  Phrases such =
as, "the dispensation of the fullness of times, 	the times of the =
restoration of all things, a time when all that is hid is revealed, =
truth 	floods the earth, and so forth... suggest satiety" as Dr. Terryl =
L. Givens recently pointed 	out in a talk at BYU. =20

	Western medicine, like churches, even the Church, often assumes or =
pretends to have answers 	because it has become very good at putting =
labels on problems.  Literature, good literature, 	goes about doing good =
as the Savior did.  Prevention, in every area of our lives is better 	=
than cure. =20

	To me "new age Mormons" suggests a taking of responsibility to be a =
prophet oneself. Of 	accepting the reality of the heavens being opened =
not to just Prophets but that answers can 	come to us as we read, and =
think about the words and between the lines of all good books.

	Great art is often produced by those who have suffered and struggled =
physically and 	metaphysically, body and mind. Church members and the =
body of the saints have suffered much of 	body in these latter days. I =
wonder however if we have suffered enough in mind to produce the 	great =
literature for which we hunger on this AML site and in our private =
lives.   =20

As I was reading Glen's post I started wondering what he was saying =
(refuting some of what had been said) until I got to the end. If the =
"Dispensation of the Fullness of Times" and the "Restoration of All =
Things" were complete I'm sure the Prophet and Apostles would say so. We =
have a long way to go. Is the time short? Want to play the "definition =
of" game?

My key, the one I personally use, is the constant use and exercise of =
"the Gift of the Holy Ghost" in order to discern "truth". Am I going to =
teach that "truth" I receive to others? Not unless I'm prompted to. I =
definitely will not teach it as doctrine in Church! That is not my place =
(and hopefully never will be). ;-)

I shared an experience on this list that happened to me last weekend. =
There were some other things that occurred around that same time that =
are sacred to me which I will share only with my family and close =
friends when the Spirit moves me. The overriding principle I learned for =
myself last weekend was what it really means to struggle in the Spirit =
for an answer. I also learned that what we need is not always what we =
think we want when it comes to answers to our life's questions which =
often can only come from our Father in Heaven. I could not talk loud =
(above a whisper; my daughter told me my voice was cracking to which I =
responded it was far beyond cracked - it was broken) for three days =
after that.=20

Glen seems to ask if we as a people have suffered and struggled enough =
to create great art? I think with each great work comes a struggle. Look =
at the Savior's life. How many times did he go off alone and struggle in =
the Spirit? And we only have a fraction of the Scriptures in our =
possession. Each time we create, each time we wish desperately for an =
answer to a prayer, we must put forth the Herculean effort to learn or =
do what Heavenly Father wants us to do (which we were foreordained to =
do) and we must be willing to pass through an emotional and physical =
fire of one kind or another. I'm sure Margaret Young could tell you =
about that experience. Are we, each of us as individuals, willing to =
give "the uttermost farthing"? If we answer "yes", then we need to go to =
the Lord and ask Him what it is we need to do and what He expects from =
us as a sacrifice in return. Then great works will come forth.

Personally (for myself) I know that last weekend was only a fraction and =
a start of the many things I have yet to do and learn. I only pray as I =
walk that "road" I am strong enough and ready for each trial as it =
manifests itself. I keep reaching for that "Hand" and for the first time =
last weekend I experienced my hand being held by "His". It was awesome! =
I only pray I am worthy of that feeling more than just that once. If I'm =
not I know I will miss it terribly. :-(

Jerry Tyner
Orange County, CA

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Barbara R. Hume" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Y'All Need to Get Out More
Date: 22 Nov 2002 19:02:40 -0700

At 10:18 PM 11/21/02, you wrote:
>I think Richard should use a scene like this in "Brigham City II".
>It would be priceless, in my opinion.

Oh! Oh! Wes pulls a guy over for speeding, and instead of showing his 
driver's license, the guy flashes his temple recommend. I'll bet that has 
happened many times. I wonder what happened to anyone who tried that on 
Robert Kirby in his cop days?


barbara hume





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] Levi PETERSON, _The Backslider_ 
Date: 22 Nov 2002 19:06:14 -0800

"Night Soil" is my favorite.  Levi won't remember this, but we met some 
years ago at Sunstone.  He was doing a book signing, or some such thing, 
and I really wanted to meet him.  I told him about my fondness for "Night 
Soil" and my displeasure with the small print in "The Backslider" .
----------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@general.com





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Needle 
Subject: Re: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone_ (Review)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 19:00:48 -0800

Andrew, thank you for this review.  I came close to ordering the book, 
after reading about in the Book of Mormon Archaeology Digest (I think 
that's the name of the broadside).  It sounds like the stuff heartburn is 
made of.

What I want to know is, How did you ever get a copy in Japan???


At 08:40 AM 11/22/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>Title: The Keystone: The Day Alma Died
>Author: b. v. cheyenne (pseudonym), with Glen E. Sudbury and
>Michael E. Coones.
>Publisher: Keystone Project.  Salt Lake City.
>2002.  749 pages.    www.keystoneproject.com


----------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@general.com





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Utley" 
Subject: Re: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone_ (Review)
Date: 23 Nov 2002 10:43:22 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time)

To Andrew Hall:=0D
=0D
Thanks very much for your honest and lengthy review of our book, THE
KEYSTONE:  The Day Alma Died.  The authors very much appreciate your cand=
or.
 Certainly we agree with many of your comments, particularly where editor=
ial
concerns are mentioned.  Actually there were six editors, some with
considerable credentials that worked on the book.  Obviously, the copy
editors left something to be desired and we are trying to rectify that in
the second printing.  However, as for many other issues you raise, we
disagree to varying degrees.  The archaic style, the didactic approach, t=
he
wordiness, etc., are moot considerations that we actually prosecuted with
deliberation, and there may be more going on here than you realize, based=
 on
your cursory reading---as many readers are telling us who actually are
revisiting the book over and over.  (Curious, that.)  In this wise, it
occurs to us that it might have been good for you to finish the book, whi=
ch
acknowledges that it merely is the first installment in what is alleged t=
o
be a "soap opera."  The "plan" actually does come together at the end of =
the
"day"---as it will continue to come together in future installments.  But=
,
that not so minor point aside, we again thanks you for your kindnesses an=
d
your frankness.  We will certainly take to heart your suggestions as we a=
re
nearing completion of the second episode in the series, Children of Darkn=
ess
 Children of Light.  Many readers tell us they are reading the book not o=
nce
 but twice, and even three and four times, finding illumination that esca=
ped
them upon a first reading.  They will appreciate any improvements we can
make in future installments of the series.  And I tell you with sincerity
that your comments in this regard have great worth to us.=0D
=0D
Your friends=0D
=0D
"b.v.cheyenne"=0D
Glen E. Sudbury=0D
Michael E. Coones=0D
=0D


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brown" 
Subject: Re: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone_ (Review)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 11:06:24 -0700

How come I'm still on the list? I tried to get off? I LOVE Andrew Hall's
critical comments on this book! Why can't critics get it into their heads to
write like this? DUMP on the bad, but then FIND SOME GOOD IN IT! I salute
Andrew, and I'm going to send this to the Daily Herald to show them it can
be done! Marilyn Brown


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marie Knowlton 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 25 Nov 2002 13:01:22 -0800 (PST)

Scott wrote:
This is a universe that I can get into; one where God will kill people
for you so that you won't have to be a martyr for too long. (Referring to "First Love and Forever"). 

Yep! And I for one am sick of those "warm fuzzy" solutions (like Emily's husband getting killed in the car wreck so she can be with Michael, whom she's loved all along, anyway). Most of the time, real life doesn't work out so neatly, and we are left to chew on moral dilemmas that are far less simplistic and clear-cut. I applaud Richard Paul Evans for having the nerve to write about that in his new book. 

Yes, the heroine turns to another man for comfort and support. This is not adultery. Evans shows us that the characters are choosing not to violate their standards and covenants. Situations like this can and do happen. Life gets messy. The boundaries are not always black and white, the line between Christlike compassion and love not always discernable, and love has more different forms and manifestations than we can possibly analyze in a Sunday school class. 

I wish more of us had the courage and insight to write these difficult subjects, and to handle them in such a sensitive and realistic way, as Evans has done. 

[Marie Knowlton]

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: harlowclark@juno.com
Subject: [AML] Orrin HATCH, _Square Peg: Confessions of a Citizen Senator_
Date: 25 Nov 2002 14:05:49 -0800

On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:11:59 -0800 "Steve Perry"  wrote,
in the "Y'All Need to Get Out More" thread:
> Like most of the "sins" of LDS folks, this one is a shared behavior 
> with many people in many denominations. Just last week I answered 
> a phone at Prime Recordings from a Protestant minister ordering choir 
> music by Orrin Hatch and Janice Kapp Perry.  I assume that the 800 
> number didn't clue him in that he was calling Utah. He said "maybe 
> you didn't know Hatch is a Mormon, but... he's a good man anyway."   
> I wanted to say "Lots of us try to be," but I just took his order and 
> sent him his music.
> 
> :-)
> 
> Steve


This morning (Nov 25th) on NPR's Morning Edition Bob Edwards said, "He's
the most conservative of conservatives in the Senate, but able to make
coalitions with the most liberal of liberals" or something like that, and
I thought, Orrin Hatch, and that's who he was introducing. 

Hatch has just published a new book, _Square Peg: Confessions of a
Citizen Senator_. He implied that one meaning of the title is that
committed liberals and committed conservatives can work together to get
things done that liberals might think conservatives wouldn't do and vice
versa. I don't much like Hatch's politics, but I'd like to read and
review this book because a lot of what he said parallels or resonates
with my sense that labels like liberal and conservative are more markers
of rhetorical style than of different worldviews.

Edwards asked about the word 'confessions' in the title and Hatch said he
regretted his vote against Martin Luther King's birthday as a federal
holiday. He said his vote was practical, that he didn't think federal
workers needed another paid holiday, that it would and has cost about a
billion dollars a year. He said he wasn't considering the feelings of
people whose ancestors had lived under "despicable slavery," and should
have voted differently.

One day 12 or 13 years ago some of the people I was working with wanted
to make January 15 a company holiday. I didn't sign the petition because,
while it joys me to see a holiday in honor of Dr. King, I didn't want a
4th paid day off in 6 weeks and then nothing till Good Friday (not a big
holiday in Seattle, but the company that bought our company and too many
others to avoid eventual bankruptcy, was headquartered in Joizy, or
somelikewhere where in spite of all the religious overtones they call
that Friday good for a day off).

Of course, it wasn't a choice between adding Jan. 15 or
February-compromise-between-honest-Abe-&-cherry-chopping-George day as a
company holiday, so it wasn't as if by not adopting MLK's birthday we
could have had another paid day off a little later in the year. Or maybe
it was a choice between holidays. I don't recall if the company was
considering adding another, and I didn't discuss my reasons for not
signing the petition, but I've often wondered whether I would have done a
better thing by signing it.

I also think about a comment I read from some leftist commentator or
other, who said that the medieval (or earlier) Catholic Church instituted
a multitude  of holy days to limit the economic power of the lower
classes, who couldn't keep a day holy and also earn money on that day.

One final thing, after talking about the need to protect the rights of
artists to the income that comes from their creations, Hatch said U2's
Bono came to him for help on some projects having to do with African AIDS
and such, and about the third time Bono came into his office he said,
"Let's hear your music senator." Hatch played some. "That's beautiful,
senator, but the brothers aren't going to sing it, because of who you
are." Hatch asked what he should do about it. "Change your name." Bono
thought about it for about 15 seconds and suggested, "Johnny Trapdoor."
Hatch told Bob Edwards he had taken the advice, so if you see any songs
by Johnny Trapdoor you'll know who wrote them. I wonder if they'll have
music by Janice Von Trapp Doerr. 

Harlow S. Clark

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Walters, Isaac" 
Subject: RE: [AML] Pain and Art
Date: 22 Nov 2002 22:22:35 -0500



-----Original Message-----
Scott Parkin wrote:

There's no requirement that the author suffer the pain themselves, but
there is an essential need that the author have considered that kind of
pain from very close and that the author be deeply (perhaps even
intimately) familiar with it to portray it well.

There are greater and lesser pains (I strive to be as great a pain as I
can), but it seems to me that the essential requirement of conflict in
fiction is dissonance--aka, pain. Maybe small pain. Maybe simple
yearning. But without some darkness against which to depict the light
the story stops short of great, I think.

----

I would agree that an artist must be able to understand the pain of
others.  Unfortunately, I think it is this sensitivity which so often
leads to their own pain in the world.

Riffing off your statements about dissonance, let me share my personal
favorite theory of art that goes along a little with dissonance, but not
quite.  It comes from James Joyce via a Joseph Campbell talk on art and
spirituality.

Joyce says there are two types of art:  good art and bad art and he
associates good art with the static and bad art with kinetic.

When he's talking about kinetic art, he's talking about art that
attempts to move you.  He says that if it tries to move you with desire
then it is pornography.  (Joyce's term not mine.)  All advertising art
falls into this category.  You see the pretty woman with the teeth the
same color as the refrigerator, and you suddenly have a desire to buy a
refrigerator.  Joyce says that if it attempts to move you through fear
then it is didactic.

Unfortunately, I find that most religious art produced in the church
falls into the category of kinetic art.  You can decide for yourself if
it is attempting to move you through desire or fear or both.

In contrast, Joyce says that good art is static in that it stops you and
you have to deal with it before you can go on.  Again there are two
types.  If it stops you with fascination then that is the beautiful.
For me it could be a sunset, a spider spinning a web, a child asleep.
Art that stops you with annihilation is the sublime.  I'm not sure I
understand exactly what this means, since I think I may have only
encountered this one time in the arts.  I do, however, associate this
with my own encounters with God.  At those times, I encounter something
so much bigger than myself, so much beyond my comprehension that in
order for me to progress, in order for me to come to a greater
understanding, who I am has to be destroyed and put back together again
in such a way to encompass this encounter.  I believe this is what Alma
is talking about when he describes having experienced a mighty change in
your hearts and having the image of God engraven on your countenance.
For me it is the process of revelation.

I think this moment of the sublime is what you are getting at when you
talk about the need for dissonance in art.  I agree somewhat, but I'm
almost afraid it's too small an idea in relation to the sublime.  I
would also point out, that while an individual may often experience pain
leading up to the sublime, quite often the sublime itself paradoxically
transcends pain.  If there is pain, then it is swallowed up in the
wonder and the joy of the new self.

As an artist I believe I have made one beautiful moment that fits
Joyce's definition.  I have yet to create the sublime.  It is my goal.

Let me also strongly recommend a truly incredible book that deals with
some of these issues called "The Grace of Great Things" by Robert
Grudin.  It deals with inspiration, beauty, and love in all creative
activity and also describes common habits of great creative minds.  I
find this list a much more compelling idea of how an artist should live
than the simple notion of the suffering artist.

[Isaac Walters]


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Melissa Proffitt 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 23:07:05 -0700

On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 08:16:21 -0800 (PST), r talley wrote:

>There seems to be some kind of notion that Deseret
>Book will now decide which books we can and can't
>read.  How ridiculous.  DB never has and never will
>choose what I will read.

They choose what you read if they only carry a certain selection.  If you
shop at Deseret Book for LDS novels, you cannot read what they do not =
sell.
But it's still a good point that even if Deseret Book doesn't carry a =
title,
it doesn't keep you from ever reading that book.  When I go to Deseret =
Book,
it's usually because I need a cheap Book of Mormon and the distribution
center is (ick) downtown.  I buy books online or from Barnes & Noble and
I've never had trouble finding anything that was in print.  So I really
don't care what kinds of novels they sell.  But in my opinion the thing =
to
do here is write a letter if you're upset by the new policy (or a =
different
letter if you support it), like...shoot.  I forgot who posted that nice =
long
letter.  I thought it was ideal.

On the other hand, there was some concern expressed about whether the
store's refusal to buy certain kinds of books will have a negative impact=
 on
the overall LDS publishing field.  I could see this being a reasonable =
fear,
and I hope it never happens.

>I live nowhere near a DB, but when I do go into one, I
>expect certain items, just as I expect certain items
>at other stores.  I certainly wouldn't expect to buy a
>"Happy Meal" at Home Depot and I wouldn't expect to
>find something offensive at DB, I only expect Church
>related materials.

Then they shouldn't carry any non-LDS fiction at all and forget about the
"offensive material" issue. (I hope you didn't seriously mean to imply =
that
anything not Church-related is offensive, because that hasn't seemed to =
be
your opinion so far.)  I went the rounds last year with some woman in an
online forum who believed Deseret Book should not carry the Harry Potter
books because they weren't Church related.  To her credit, she didn't
believe they were evil, just not the sort of thing that, in her words,
"brought the Spirit."  And she pretty much thought the same thing about
books in general: if it wasn't published by a Church member on an =
explicitly
LDS subject, it shouldn't be in Deseret Book.  I don't know what I think
about that.  I'm influenced by the fact that I just don't shop there much
any more, and that it is a very good source for doctrinal works and =
Mormon,
um, kitsch.

But one final question:  Who gets to decide what's offensive?  Is =
something
only offensive when it's explicit, or is it okay to depict illicit love =
if
you pan away before two people start doing something nasty?  I find the
movie "Titanic" so offensive that I refuse to see it regardless of =
whether
the naughty bits are edited out.  Does my definition win, or what?  I'm
asking seriously now, and I'm not making fun of you, Rebecca, because I
really do want to know what you think.

Melissa Proffitt
(yes, that was really three final questions)




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 23 Nov 2002 00:16:21 -0700

D. Michael Martindale wrote:

> Where's the arrogance?

Unfortunately, there's plenty of it to go around. We tend not to notice
arrogance when we support the outcomes it fosters, but that doesn't change the
fact that the literarily liberal are no less guilty of it than the literarily
conservative.

Which is the part of this whole situation that distresses me the most--that we
have lept to our villainizing rhetoric and blanket denunciations of whole groups
of people in the name of our own visions of right and righteousness. A tactic
that seems unlikely to generate useful solutions to a set of real and important
issues.

There's plenty of arrogance to go around on this one. On both sides. We
shouldn't lose sight of that, in my opinion.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Parkin" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 23 Nov 2002 00:06:49 -0700

Tracie Laulusa wrote:

> It is one thing I have observed in Mormon culture, and while it may
> also be in other Christian cultures, I haven't observed it there
> because I'm not there.  Somehow we think we can control every little
> thing that goes on in our minds.  I have found from personal
> experience, and talked to enough people to know I'm not alone in that
> experience, to know that you can not totally control thought and
> feelings.  Thoughts pop into our minds, and feelings sometimes have
> minds of their own.
>
> Entertaining those thoughts and feelings is another thing.  Most of us
> have the ability to choose what we do with those thoughts and feelings
> once they are there.  However, even then sometimes getting rid of
> them, or channeling them to another path can be a very long process.
> More than humming a hymn in your mind for a few moments.  It may be
> humming a hymn every time the thought or feeling comes around for the
> next three years--or praying about it, seeking heavenly guidance,
> instead of gratifying your own desires.

There's a long and interesting discussion to be had on this topic, but I'm not
sure how well it fits within AML-List guidelines. Still, I'll try to slip a few
thoughts in and hope Our Esteemed Moderator will indulge me a bit.

Where does an impulse come from--such as an impulse to ogle, lust, overeat, flip
someone off, smile, hug, or weep? Certainly some impulses are social or
cultural, some are physical or biochemical, and others are a combination of the
two. What is the nature of the impulse to mistrust strangers, and is it only a
learned response or is there a biological component? What about physical
attraction?

Does the fact that we have an impulse toward a sinful act mean that we're evil?
You distinguish between having an impulse and entertaining that impulse,
apparently accepting the idea that some impulses are not the result of conscious
choice--but that our response to the impulse is a matter of choice. And yet
people throughout history have not made that distinction (mortification of the
flesh, anyone?), and many Mormons currently don't distinguish between an
unplanned impulse and a chosen consideration resulting from the impulse.

Perhaps we believe that if we are righteous enough we won't have such impulses,
that the Holy Ghost will protect us from even the appearance of them. Yet even
Christ was tempted by Satan, and even Christ would like to have shrunk from the
bitter cup. And had he responded to those impulses he could have failed in his
mission as redeemer. But he didn't fail, even though he faced both the impulses
to do so.

I think this idea is one that's worth discussing in fiction, but it's difficult
to do it well. There are many ways that people respond to impulses, some of them
good and some not. What is the relationship between physical impulse and free
will? If a body is part of being like God, does he also feel physical impulses
that are not entirely under his conscious control? If so, is learning to both
recognize and respond to biochemical impulse a specific and intended part of our
mission in this life?

I know that my own body is especially good at manufacturing the chemicals of
both aggression and despair. I literally feel a jolt just prior to the release
of the chemicals that push me toward rage--a lucky thing for me, because I've
learned to pay attention to the physical urges my body feels and to
intentionally redirect and control them. As a teenager I wasn't nearly as good
at that and had a tendency to react with both physical and emotional violence.

I think we sometimes get hung up on the idea of "as a man thinketh, so is he" to
mean that if we even consider an idea that we are somehow fallen and evil and
unclean. We come to fear the very real fact of physical or chemical impulse.
Sometimes our imperfect brains fire off a random synapse and all kinds of odd
ideas pop into our heads--sometimes even grotesque or sinful ones. (I've told
the story before of the time it occurred to me to wonder what it would look like
to see someone shot in the chest--as I stood on stage during the performance of
a play while holding a prop gun, which I promptly pointed at the lighting
technician. I had no desire to kill him, but the mental impulse occurred and I
acted out knowing that action to be harmless. Later the mere fact of the impulse
led to some lengthy introspection.)

It's hard to consider these issues without looking like we're excusing bad
behavior. It would take a skilled storyteller to explore the interaction of body
and mind and spirit. Because our theology is one of the few to include a
specifically corporeal god, it seems that we have a unique insight (or at least
a unique set of conceptual solutions) on those questions. Can we explore the
nature of impulse without necessarily excusing it? Can we do it with style? Are
we willing to try?


> >From what you said of this particular book it doesn't sound like she
> deliberately made a decision to seek out Michael or to cultivate her
> feelings for him.  They were just there.  Maybe there was more to that
> interlude than you had time to state in your post.  Does she want to
> commit adultery or does she want to be happy?  Naturally, if she is in
> a rotten relationship, something that offers an alternative looks
> really good.  But she struggles with her feelings, sublimates them to
> what she feels is right, and tries to make a go of her marriage.
> Seems like a pretty moral and upright scenario.

I can't speak to Evans' storyline, but I do have a generic problem with the
"love conquers all" idea that's often expressed as "love justifies all sins."
This last idea is what I think some readers have responded to in Evans'
book--not that she faces the impulse to seek happiness (a godly impulse, IMO) or
even that she feels the impulse to adultery, but that she believes adultery to
be a sin and yet justifies her extended entertainment of that sin in the name of
love. Some would argue that's a slippery slope to justification of any impulse,
good or otherwise.

But what is love? Is it a mystical thing that takes control of the soul and
won't allow any rebuke? Is it an intellectual construct? Is it biochemical
response fired off by a complex combination of visual, olfactory, experiential,
and physical factors, the subconscious mind's attempt to encourage behaviors in
the machine of the body that will lead to well being or an escape from pain or
injury? A mix of the above? Is love really something that cannot be denied? Is
love a choice, or is it something that happens to you? Is love necessary to a
successful relationship? Is it necessary to exhaltation--at least the romantic
form of it?

I don't think it's as easy as we often try to make it. And I'm pretty sure it's
not as easy as Evans tried to make it, though I don't know because I haven't
read his book. I guess I have to now. Evans should send DB a huge thank-you card
for making his book a must-read this holiday season.

Scott Parkin






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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Eric D. Snider" 
Subject: [AML] Snide Remarks on DB Controversy
Date: 23 Nov 2002 02:32:17 -0500

My "Snide Remarks" column in this Sunday's Daily Herald (Provo, Utah) is as 
follows. I thought it would be of interest to the list.

"An Embarrassment of Richard's"
By Eric D. Snider
The Daily Herald
http://www.harktheherald.com

When you think of stores that sell pornography, probably the first name that 
springs to mind is Deseret Book. But those purveyors of smut are finally 
cleaning up their act, starting with a refusal to sell Mormon author Richard Paul 
Evans' trashy new novel, "LaVonda Does LaVerkin."

No, I am kidding about the title. It is called "The Last Promise." It is about an 
American woman living in Italy with her Italian husband, and this Italian 
husband is emotionally abusive, and later physically abusive, too. So the 
woman develops a friendship with another man, and they share some hugs and 
kisses (but no sex), and she realizes she should dump her worthless spouse for 
this other guy if she ever wants to be happy.

I read this book very quickly, the way you would wolf down an intestine 
sandwich if you were compelled to eat one. I can say that it (the book, not the 
sandwich) is better than Evans' "The Christmas Box," though that is not much of 
a compliment, since the Hanta virus is also better than "The Christmas Box."

But my point is, "The Last Promise" is a fairly good book, as far as romance 
novels go. Deseret Book hasn't pulled it from its shelves due to a lack of quality. 
If quality were part of the criteria, they wouldn't persist in selling things like "The 
Book of Mormon Sleuth." (Actual description from the back cover of this teen 
novel: "Whether it's how to solve everyday problems, escape from the clutches 
of a demented thief, or solve the mystery of Aunt Ella's cellar, Brandon's 
scriptures never fail him.")

The decision on "The Last Promise" stemmed from the content of the book: 
Though there is no sex, the woman in the story does have an emotionally 
intimate relationship with a man who is not her husband. This can be viewed as 
a form of adultery, which is a no-no among most of your major religions. One of 
those religions is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns 
Deseret Book and whose members make up, I don't know, about 100 percent of 
Deseret Book's clientele.

Now, I could go down to Deseret Book and make a list of other books they sell 
that have content far more objectionable than what's in "The Last Promise." That 
seems like something I would do, and it would get me out of the office for a few 
hours, because I would probably go to the movies, too. But Deseret Book has 
beaten me to it. They have announced that they are systematically going 
through all the titles they sell and removing the ones that don't match their 
customers' "core values," as Deseret Book president Sheri Dew put it.

You are already thinking that the Bible contains some very graphic sex and 
violence, yet Deseret Book has no problem selling it. That is another matter, 
though: The Bible, while depicting sinfulness, also generally depicts the woeful 
effects of sinning. "The Last Promise" shows no long-term ill effects of the 
woman's relationship; in fact, it's not even portrayed as sinful.

I think the woman probably makes some mistakes along the way, but I also think 
she ultimately does what's best for her. Why stay in a loveless relationship? 
Because you need help with the rent money? There are a lot of gray areas in 
life, and this book explores one of them. In the world of Deseret Book, however, 
there is no gray, only black and white (mostly white). DB apparently doesn't 
want to burden its customers by making them think about the gray areas, the 
parts where divorce is sometimes the best option and where a close friendship 
is more valuable than a dead marriage.

There is a stifling air of perfectionism in the magical world of Deseret Book. 
Things are very cut-and-dried in the books they sell there. If you say your 
prayers, read your scriptures and go to church, life will be fantastic. Sure, there 
will be bumps along the way. But they will be temporary, and easily overcome 
by praying, reading and going. If you find yourself stuck in a life that is somehow 
more difficult than that, then it is surely because you have failed to repent of 
some sin along the way -- it is your fault, in other words.

I hope Deseret Book is wrong about what its customers want to see. I hope 
people can read a story about someone who makes a difficult decision and, 
whether they agree with the decision or not, find some good in the story. I hope 
people can see that some situations are multi-faceted, with no clear-cut right 
answer.

But mostly, I hope Brandon can solve the mystery of Aunt Ella's cellar. Because 
seriously, what's DOWN there?








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon (and Other) Culture
Date: 22 Nov 2002 13:21:52 -0700

Richard Johnson wrote:
> 
> my conclusion about Deseret Book is, "So What".  Wal Mart, not
> only has the right, but it has the ongoing policy of ceasing to carry
> merchandise that fails to meet certain criteria.  It also, as a matter of
> policy moves the merchandise around to different areas of the store or
> department in order to force the customer to examine new groups of
> merchandise  while looking for the old familiar stuff.  I have cursed those
> policies many times, but I seem to still go to Wal Mart.  No one forces me
> to go into a store that irritates me, but I find that the advantages
> frequently trump the disadvantages.

Wal-Mart is not owned by the church, and no church members assumes that
Wal-Mart policy defines moral principles as taught by the President of
the Church or Jesus Christ.


> Deseret Book, as a company, has, as far as I'm concerned the absolute
> right to sell, or not to sell anything that is legal.

Of course it has that right. That's why I'm not marching in with the
sheriff and demanding the reinstatement of Evans' book.


> They may establish
> policy ,and I, as a customer have the right to weigh the disadvantages and
> advantages of patronizing their store(s) or not.

Yes, and I also have the right to vocally declare my opinions of their
policy. But you won't find me reacting like any good card-carrying
liberal would when something happens they don't like: I won't be suing
Deseret Book in court for first amendment rights violation. I won't
because they _do_ have the legal right to make the choice they made. And
I have the right to call their decision morally bankrupt.


> What I am getting at, is that it is not a particularly Mormon
> characteristic to close ranks against what is perceived as the "other" nor
> is it a particularly Mormon characteristic to open arms and embrace the
> "other" .  These are both human characteristics that exist in almost all
> societies, religions, etc.

The "everyone else does it" argument does not sway me. Sure, plenty of
other religions have the same close-minded reactions to things they
perceive as "clashing with their values" that Mormons do. But if we are
the true disciples of Christ that we claim to be, we should strive to do
better than everybody else.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marny Parkin 
Subject: Re: [AML] Need Info on Child Abuse Recovery
Date: 23 Nov 2002 01:14:19 -0700

Mary Aagard wrote:

> I'm doing research on child sexual abuse recovery literature 
>targeted to Mormons or even Christians.  I know that Cheiko Okazaki 
>has a talk on tape about this, but I'm having a hard time finding 
>any books, etc. written by a Mormon, for a Mormon about dealing with 
>sexual abuse.  If anyone has any ideas, etc, please let me know. 
>Thank you.

BYU Studies just published a book titled _Eternal Values and Personal 
Growth_ that deals with this and other problems while trying to 
improve psychological health. The introduction states, "This book is 
addressed to the normal cross-section of Latter-day Saint young 
adults, single or married, including those who suffer from the common 
distresses and obstacles in becoming mature in their ability to grow 
and cope. It is also useful to younger and older persons. It is not 
addressed to those with clinically diagnosable mental disorders, but 
suggestions are made about how such individuals can find professional 
assistance and integrate it, if they wish, with the self-help 
outlined in this book."

The author, Allen E. Bergin, was a professor of psychology at BYU, 
and this book is being used in a course at BYU called "Psychology and 
LDS Perspectives." The book is available from the BYU Studies web 
site at http://byustudies.byu.edu/

I hope this helps. At the very least it has a good list of references 
in the bibliography that may point to what you're looking for.

Marny Parkin





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nan McCulloch" 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy
Date: 23 Nov 2002 01:04:04 -0700

You can buy the new Richard Paul Evans book at Costco for $13.00.  Why =
would you want to buy it for full price at DB?  They have the worst =
prices in town. =20

Nan McCulloch


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:34:43 -0700

"Eric R. Samuelsen" wrote:

> C) For a Church that's obsessed with public relations, we sure suck at it.

Among all the insightful comments you've made, Eric, over your career on
AML-List, this is probably one of the most insightful of all. And
perhaps points out the most destructive consequence of the Deseret Book
fiasco. Mormons now look even more stupid than ever.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Needle 
Subject: [AML] L.H. KIMBALL, _The Marketing of Sister B_ (Review)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 17:43:42 -0800

Review
======

Title: The Marketing of Sister B
Author: Linda Hoffman Kimball
Publisher: Signature Books
Year Published: 2002
Number of Pages: 145
Binding: Paperback
ISBN: 1-56085-163-5
Price: $14.95

Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle

Few of my friends would describe me as a macho kind of guy.
I don't own a cowboy hat; I don't drive a pick-up truck; I
don't smoke cigars (or anything else, for that matter).

Further, I have a habit, when my snail-mail volume is high,
of grabbing it all and taking it out to a place where I can
eat a meal and read/discard as much of the mail as possible
before bringing the rest home.  So when the package from
Signature Books arrived the other day, along with about 25
other pieces of mail, I trundled off to dinner with my
stack of correspondence and junk mail.

I had been invited to a restaurant to eat with the manager
and a few of the fellows who slice beef and mop floors.
The manager is LDS.  I dumped my mail on the table, and was
asked, "What's in the big envelope?"  "A book for review!"
"Ooh, open it now, don't wait until you get home."  And
obeying their wishes, I dumped the book onto the table.
Silence.  Out came a pink book!  A PINK BOOK!!!  Any little
bit of macho I'd ever had was now forever gone.

And it is indeed the cover, and the cover art, that strikes
you first thing when you grab a copy of this book.  And if
you're lucky enough to get a review copy from the
publisher, it will include a little slip of paper with all
the book information listed.  Oh, it's a pink slip of
paper.

So, who is Sister B?  Donna Brooks, wife of Hank, mother to
several children, busy Mormon housewife, resident of
Rottingham, MA.  Sister Brooks leads a full life, caring
for her family and heavily involved in church functions.
So far so good.

And then one day Sister B receives a phone call asking for
help with an upcoming women's function.  She needs to come
up with some idea that she can transform into little
keepsakes for the women who attend the activity.  She
decides to concoct a cinnamon-based perfume/potion that can
be packaged in little bottles and left at each place
setting.  A simple idea.  But one of the attendees brings a
guest, a women who works for a marketing firm in New York.
She falls in love with the potion, and sets the stage for
the national marketing of Sister B's concoction.

Traveling to New York, Sister B signs a contract without
reading it, and only then learns that her product is to be
called "Sinnamon."  Yes, as in "sin." It would be
advertised as an erotic potion that will drive your man
wild.  Infuriated, Sister B manages to re-direct the
effort, and it takes a more wholesome direction.  But the
name stays.

"The Marketing of Sister B" is a hilarious look at the
effect of fame on a sister of the Restoration, and its
residual effects on her family, her friends and her church.
Being catapulted from relative obscurity to national
prominence can be overwhelming.  It causes the actor to see
life from a new perspective, and forces that actor to re-
evaluate one's priorities.

Happily, Sister B has plenty of outside conscience-buckets,
from a rabid Sr. Monson from the Public Affairs Department
of the Church to a vixen named Gloria who will stop at
nothing to sell product.  Does Sister B have the internal
resources necessary to withstand both extremes, to find her
way through this sudden fame, this cataclysmic change in
her life?

Sr. Monson and Gloria are typical of the characters in this
book.  Those that figure prominently (with the notable
exception of Sister B) are clearly characatures, line-
drawings of certain classes of people who will likely not
behave individually as these do, but who are amusingly
portrayed as a collective image.  And there is a sense in
which Sister B stands, as it were, in the middle of a
whirling eddy, not knowing which way to turn.

In fact, the story line is not believable.  But neither is
it intended to be.  It is so grossly over-exaggerated, so
over the top in its storyline, so simplistic in its
telling, and, after all that, a wonderful read.  As soon as
I figured out that I needed to suspend any judgment as to
the believability of the plot and many of the characters, I
settled back, had a good laugh, and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Kimball does hit on a few serious themes, but is careful to
couch them in humor and pathos.  In fact, the whole book
poses the question, is fame all that great?  Should a
church be seeking out famous people?  Should ordinary
people aspire to be famous, and should they accept the fame
if it should come their way, as it did for Sr. B?

Kimball is unrelenting in her critique of society's worship
of fame and money.  And she shows how fame and money can be
incompatible with a simple presentation of the gospel.

Kimball saves her hardest moments for a gripping scene that
takes place in the ladies room in Sister B's ward house.
Sitting inside a cubicle, she's really hiding from her
adoring fans, the constant requests for autographs, the
congratulatory hugs.  The sisters who enter the restroom
are talking among themselves, and it ain't pretty.  They're
angry, resentful, spiteful, jealous of Sister B's success.
The stark contrast between their public face, and that
which they put on when they think Sister B isn't listening,
exposes a level of hypocrisy and hurt that brings us back
to the real world.

Now, what does this book lack?  1) No sex.  2) No murders
or other violence. 3) No swear words.  4) No questioning of
LDS doctrine.  5) No criticism of the leadership.

So, I ask, why didn't Deseret Book publish this book?  Did
Kimball submit it to them?  Did they turn it down?  This is
such an unlikely title to come from the press of Signature
Books.  In fact, inasmuch as an employee of Deseret Book
reads these reviews, I will urge her to get her bosses to
read this book and figure out that it is safe to sell, even
under the new rubrics.  Pink cover and all.

I liked "The Marketing of Sister B."  Kimball writes
simply, keeps the action moving, her prose is very spare
and her dialogue easy to follow.  She tells an over-the-top
story, using over-the-top characters, primarily to
entertain, but we must not miss the serious undertones of
the dangers of fame and the pain of hypocrisy.

This is a good book.  You'll enjoy it.


------------------
Jeffrey Needle
jeff.needle@general.com 
or
jeffneedle@tns.net







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Kieth Merrill on BOM Movies
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:55:04 -0700

Christopher Bigelow wrote:
>=20
> Kieth Merrill has a very interesting article on the two new Book of Mor=
mon
> movies at Meridian:
>=20
> http://www.ldsmag.com/arts/021122movie.html


>From the header to the article:

-----
Meridian=92s film editor, Kieth Merrill, is a sort of father figure to th=
e
rising generation of LDS filmmakers. At Meridian, we get hundreds of
letters from the hopeful asking Kieth for everything from his help
breaking into film to his opinion on the latest offering in the world of
"Mormon Cinema." People look to him not only because of his long list of
successful films, his many awards--including an Oscar--or his filmmaking
gems, _Legacy_ and _Testaments_, but because his savvy and insights have
been honed in a few trips around the filmmaking block.
-----

I almost consider this an insult. Kieth Merrill a father figure among
LDS filmmakers? I suppose, perhaps, to some. It would never have
occurred to me to think of him as a father figure for LDS film. Not even
with an Oscar. And certainly not for the alleged gems of _Legacy_ and
_Testaments_.

A father figure is someone who stretches horizons, takes risks, gives
birth to a new phenomenon. What has Kieth Merrill done that is bold and
horizon-expanding?

He can't even decide whether appropriateness or artistic quality is more
important to LDS film. When it comes to insistence on quality in LDS
cinema, he giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other.

Any budding LDS filmmaker who sees Kieth Merrill as a father figure is
likely to turn into a menace to the fledgling LDS film industry.

I have an alternate candidate to present as the appropriate father
figure. (Everyone else tries to dictate what's appropriate for LDS
members everywhere--why can't I?) He has broken new ground, expanded new
horizons, and single-handedly given birth to the recent LDS cinematic
phenomenon. Kieth Merrill would be a footnote in the history of LDS
artists without the influence of the true father figure in LDS cinema,
because there would be no LDS cinema for Kieth Merrill to keep writing
articles about in Meridian Magazine.

I leave it as an exercise for the class to determine who this candidate
is.

--=20
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ivan Angus Wolfe 
Subject: RE: [AML] The Avenging Angel
Date: 23 Nov 2002 09:55:22 -0700 (MST)


> Did someone say he was anti-Mormon?  Did I miss that?  Doh!  I'd have
> spoken up for him if I had noticed.  I enjoyed Avenging Angel a lot.  It
> wasn't a "great" movie by any means, but it was entertaining, pretty
> accurate to the period (no glaring errors or license taken), and Brigham
> Young was COOL.  In all, it was a so-so story interestingly told.  I
> didn't think it was anti at ALL.  And it was both informed and unbiased.
> 
> Jacob Proffitt

I said when I first saw it (on my mission) I was sure it was written by an anti
- although I gave a caveat that the reason was beacause several investigators
found it to be too big of a stumbling block and stopped investigating - so my
view may have been different if i had seen it just as a movie.


Except for one thing that it did which was not balanced or based in reliable
historical research.  Having read a lot about the "Danites" - I've discovered
that the men who killed apostate mormons on Brigham Young's behest were largely
an invention of the eastern press (yes, there were some danites in the Kirtland
era, but that's a different story).  To write a tale where the main character is
one who kills people for Brigham Young is to buy into fabrications and rumors.


And I'm hard pressed to see how that is fair and unbiased.
--ivan wolfe





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 23 Nov 2002 09:42:04 -0700

Tracie Laulusa said:

> >From what you said of this particular book it doesn't sound like she
> deliberately made a decision to seek out Michael or to cultivate her
> feelings for him.  They were just there.  Maybe there was more to that
> interlude than you had time to state in your post.  Does she want to
> commit adultery or does she want to be happy?  Naturally, if she is in
> a rotten relationship, something that offers an alternative looks
> really good.  But she struggles with her feelings, sublimates them to
> what she feels is right, and tries to make a go of her marriage.
> Seems like a pretty moral and upright scenario.

Yes.  Given the situation, it's about as moral as you can get.  And she really 
does try to forget about Michael and work on her marriage to Ryan.  Even after 
Ryan's death, she doesn't pine away for Michael.  She's too busy trying to 
handle everything, and she really does miss Ryan.  Besides, she also thinks 
that Michael's married (one of those classic misunderstandings thrown in to 
increase suspense).  

> That Stansfield maybe copped out with the
> marry-Michael-and-live-happily-ever-after ending is another
> consideration.  But this is, after all, LDS romance.  

Yes.  And when all's said and done, especially throughout the other two books, 
Michael is recognized as Emily's true love, and Ryan is remembered mostly as a 
scumbucket.  There's a lot that I like and enjoy about these books, but 
underneath it all is a subtle message that bothers me:  If your marriage isn't 
happy, just wait, and God will send you your Michael.  Then you'll live happily 
ever after.

Obviously there's good reason for any LDS author to have a heroine have already 
been married, particularly to a scumbucket.  Since married women constitute the 
majority of the readers of this genre, they can best sympathize with the 
heroine if she's been married, if she's a little older, experienced, and has 
some kids.  And a romance storyline works best if the heroine isn't madly in 
love with a wonderful husband.  Thus he has to be abusive.  We see an awful lot 
of LDS novels that begin with the heroine married to an abusive husband.  Not 
that such marriages don't exist, but getting out of them is not nearly so easy 
as waiting for Michael to come rescue you.

--Katie Parker




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] EVANS, _The Last Promise_ (SL Tribune)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 02:36:30 +0000

Salt Lake Tribune
Sunday, November 24, 2002

Evans' Frothy 'Last Promise' Has Details, But Lacks Depth
BY LAURA DEMANSKI
THE BALTIMORE SUN

   The Last Promise  By Richard Paul Evans; Dutton; $22.95

    The Last Promise bills itself as a romance from the heart
and for the ages. Preaching an easy gospel of true love as
destiny, it quickly reveals itself to be a romance from and for
the recycling bin.
    Richard Paul Evans made his name with the story-length
Christmas Box in 1995 and has published a rapid-fire six novels
since. He has sold 11 million books worldwide. Can a few million
devoted readers be wrong? Apparently, they can be hoodwinked by
Evans's quasi-spiritual cant. Missing the craft and depth of
serious novels as well as the robust fun of honest trash, Evans'
sanitized romances are inoffensive and nonnutritious -- the pale,
squishy Wonder Bread of popular fiction.
    It doesn't take a critic or connoisseur to object to the
shoddy writing and all-around poor imaginative effort in The
Last Promise. The book doesn't pretend to be high literature, and
it need not be measured against that standard to be found wanting.
Evans presents himself in the framing prologue as a simple
storyteller. Unfortunately for his audience, there's a lot more
telling than story here.
    The shred of a plot centers on Eliana, a gorgeous and
talented painter from Utah living outside Florence, Italy, with
her chauvinistic Italian husband and their asthmatic young son.
Enter the gorgeous and talented Ross, on the run from some
shadowy past, to ply his art expertise as a guide at the Uffizi
Gallery. Destiny dictates that their paths cross; never did two
gorgeous and talented people fall in love so soporiferously.
    Evans misguidedly thinks the way to bring a scene or a
character to life is to specify its every minute, superficial
particular. He never saw a detail he didn't like, especially
details redolent of the good life. Why settle for a colander
when he can equip Eliana's kitchen with a "stainless steel
colander"? Why any old beam or pots when a few keystrokes can
afford him the more impressive "oiled wood beam above a shelf of
copper pots"? And so on.
    Is it fiction or is it a Williams-Sonoma catalog? All the
pretty details massed in such a fetishistic manner on Evans'
pages cover poorly for an embarrassing lack of story and
substance. Evans' laziness about putting together a decent plot
shows most glaringly late in the book, when Ross' dark secret
comes to light. It might have been picked out of a hat, so little
does this revelation have to do with anything.
    The prose, too, suffers from lack of trying as much as lack
of talent, serving up howlers like this: "As he began to drift
off, there came from the open window a new sound. He wondered
what animal could make such a noise. A wild boar, perhaps. Or was
it a bird? He couldn't quite place it. It almost sounded like a
woman crying."
    Bland writing, tired plots and hackneyed sentiment are ever
hazards for book buyers guided by best-seller lists. What tips
this book over from benign mediocrity into something more culpable
is the lack of effort by an author who has grown rich off his
readers. For all its going on about true love, destiny and heaven
on Earth, The Last Promise is stone soup for the soul.

Copyright 2002, The Salt Lake Tribune


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "BJ Rowley" 
Subject: [AML] Mormon Cinema and Profits
Date: 24 Nov 2002 15:42:21 -0800

This article about Mormon Cinema appeared on CNN.com over the weekend, 
and was highlighted on the CNN Headline News ticker board.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/24/sproject.ca02.mormon.ap/index.html

-BJ Rowley







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] Utah Theater Openings (Deseret News)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 02:44:11 +0000

Deseret News
Sunday, November 24, 2002

By Ivan M. Lincoln
Deseret News theater editor

     JOYFUL NOISE, Utah playwright Tim Slover's drama about
troubled genius George Frederick Handel and the circumstances
surrounding his writing of "Messiah," is being staged Nov. 28-
Jan. 4 by the Nauvoo Theatrical Society in the Center Street
Theater, 50 W. Center, Orem.
      Director Chris Clark's cast includes Heywood Bagley as
Handel, Mary Atkin as Kitty Clive, Haley Smith as Mrs. Cibber,
Robert Johannsen as Bishop Edgerton, Celeste Barrand as Mrs.
Pendarves, Thom Duncan as King George II, Joel Wallin as John
Smith and Spencer Greene as Charles Jennens. Megan Worthen and
Becky Wallin are the angel chorus.
      Performances will be Mondays and Thursdays-Saturdays at
7:30 p.m. Tickets are $10 for general admission, $9 for senior
citizens and $8 for students. For reservations, call 801-225-3800.

      JOSEPH AND MARY: A LOVE STORY, written by the late Ralph
Rodgers, with music by K. Newell Dayley, John Morgan and Shaun
Wright, is playing Nov. 30-Dec. 21, in the Bountiful Performing
Arts Center. Addie Holman, who performed in the original
production's chorus (graduating to the role of Mary three years
later), is directing.
      Holman's cast includes Phil Edmunds (alternating with Mike
Bennett) as Heli, Mary's father. Edmunds played the same role in
all three of the show's productions from 1994-96. Other players
are Chad Coleman and Devin Walker, alternating as Joseph; Hannah
Gibson and Ayrial Wright, sharing the role of Mary, and Shaun
Wright and Melody Milne as Hannah, Mary's mother.
      Holman said "Joseph and Mary" is "a play with music," but
not a musical. There are three songs in the first act and four in
the second. Holman is adding two new songs - with permission of
Rodgers' widow, Joan - by Shaun Wright.
      Tickets are $7 for general admission and $5 for senior
citizens, students and children. For reservations, call 294-7469.
Performances will be nightly, Mondays-Saturdays, at 7:30 p.m.,
except for Dec. 17 and 18.

Copyright 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: r talley 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 25 Nov 2002 09:05:29 -0800 (PST)

[MOD: Obviously, we have passionate opinions being expressed on both sides 
of this issue. I am not choosing to require revision to this post, which I 
feel matches in intensity the post to which it is responding. However--deep 
breaths--from this point on, I sincerely request that everyone writing on 
this thread do his/her best to acknowledge the goodwill and intelligence of 
those on other sides of the issue. Passion, yes; but let us also speak out 
of deep respect for each other.]

Wouldn't the "Deseret Book types" include Sheri Dew,
and Gordon B. Hinckley?

Rebecca Talley

>Shall we talk about arrogance? Shall we talk about
> how these Deseret
> Book types are taking their personal value system
> and demanding that the
> whole church accept it as if God himself had
> declared it? 

Isn't that why we have a prophet?


Shall we
> discuss how one person's opinion of "appropriate"
> has been elevated to
> the lofty status of "LDS standards"?

Whose opinion?  The Prophet's?  Sheri Dew's?
> 
> Someone bought Richard Paul Evans new book from
> Deseret Book and didn't
> like something in it. That someone came in and
> protested. This person
> wasn't content to say, "I didn't like the book. I
> want a refund." That
> person demanded that the book be removed from the
> shelves of Deseret
> Book, because, according to that person's PERSONAL
> standards, the book
> wasn't "safe." And that person's PERSONAL standards
> are supposed to be
> the standards of Deseret Book, every Deseret Book
> patron, and the whole
> church. That person wants to do all in his/her power
> to keep that book
> out of the hands of fellow Latter-day Saints,
> because that person knows
> best what's good for everybody.
>

 
Is this true?  Do you have proof?

  

> Where's the arrogance?
> 
> Fortunately, the power of that person to accomplish
> such a thing is
> severely limited, thanks to the inspired document
> called the
> Constitution with its first amendments rights. But
> the intent is there,
> and the person acts upon it to the best of his/her
> ability.
> 
> The power is greater than one might think, though.
> The book has been
> removed from Deseret Book's shelves. There have been
> some who try to
> argue that that's just fine--DB is a niche
> bookstore, those who want
> "safe" havens of book-shopping environments ought to
> be able to have
> them. And if that's all that was at stake, they'd be
> right.
> 
> But this argument leaves a vital element out of the
> equation. Deseret
> Book is owned by the Church. Deseret Book is the
> publisher of record for
> the Church--whether intentionally or by de facto
> tradition is
> irrelevant. If DB bans a book, that book is "smut,"
> as we've seen
> illustrated on this very list.

I never said RPE's book was smut.  By the way, because
DB may not be stocking his book has absolutely nothing
to do with whether or not I would buy his book.  I
personally don't enjoy his writing or his stories and
made a decision long ago that I'd never read another
one of his books.  However, I do believe there are
plenty of "smut" books out there and I absolutely
don't expect DB to carry those types of books.

 If DB bans a book,
> the author of that
> book feels obligated to stand up and publicly say,
> "I am a good member
> of the church," as Richard Paul Evans recently did.
> And why? Because DB
> has the power to besmirch the reputation of an
> author, intentional or
> otherwise.
> 
> DB is the definer of what's "appropriate," what's
> "safe." DB is the
> standard work for publications. And yes, DB is also
> the only option many
> Saints have to purchase LDS books in many locales
> throughout the world.
> 

By the way, no one in my part of the universe even
knows that there is this new policy.  No one is
discussing it.  We don't have DBs here.  DB is not the
only option for me simply because I have to shop
online for LDS products.  And, most importantly, DB
does not define what's appropriate for me--I do.

> All this descends from one evil: the unwillingness
> of certain Saints to
> think for themselves; their desire to be handed
> spiritual safety on a
> silver platter. I say with great emphaticness, with
> great sincerity,
> that this is the plan of Satan. "Safe" was rejected
> in the council in
> heaven. But we can sure see today why one-third of
> the hosts of heaven
> lost their souls over that enticing "safe" plan.
> Even among the
> two-thirds who rejected it, many are eager to adopt
> it anew in this
> life. No risk, no responsibility, no work in
> thinking and deciding. Let
> the leaders of the church do their thinking for
> them, from the President
> down to the Bishop. Let the Ensign do their thinking
> for them. Let
> Deseret Book do it.

What an absolutely ludicrous stance this is.  To
equate the desire to fill one's mind with that which
is praiseworthy, of good report, etc, or "safe" as is
condescendingly referred to with Satan's plan is
simply wrong.  To refer to those who seek to uplift
themselves and follow the counsel to "live in the
world but not of the world" as "unthinking" and that
those who take "risk" are "thinking" is arrogance at
its worst level.  What do you imply by "risk" anyway? 
How completely arrogant to assume that because one may
choose to study the scriptures, read the Ensign, and
choose uplifiting material that he/she is beneath
those who "challenge" themselves.

My father-in-law used to say whatever you're full of
runs out your mouth.  So, I guess whatever we choose
to read will influence us one way or another.  I
wonder if we'd be anxious to share certain books with
the Prophet?  The Savior? 
> 
> This is the plan of Satan rearing its ugly head all
> over again. This is
> the antithesis of the plan of salvation, where we
> learn, experience,
> grow, progress. I say that anything which interferes
> with people's
> progression is objectively wrong--not just my
> subjective personal
> opinion. I say that consuming a diet of nothing but
> safe, uplifting,
> feel-good literature (which in the past we've dubbed
> "fluff") is
> spiritual starvation. And I shall certainly take a
> stand against
> starvation, loudly, passionately.

I absolutely disagree with the above.  I shall also
take a stand, just as passionately, that there is
enough evil that surrounds us everyday and surrounds
our children, we do not need to purposely fill our
minds with it under the justification and
rationalization that somehow it will make us better
people because of it.  Spiritual starvation does not
come because we don't read "great literature" it comes
from not obeying the commandments and not following
the Prophet.  Spritual starvation occurs when we are
so desperate to be "of the world" that we allow
ourselves to be tainted by it and forget who we are.

Rebecca Talley


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Willson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 25 Nov 2002 17:49:58 -0800

DB has the right to determine what they sell, or don't sell  just as much as
any other business in America. Although I agree with everything  D. Michael
Martindale has said in his post about our agency to choose, and the basic
wrongness of others to make choices for us, especially with regards to our
reading material only containing "Dick and Jane" or other such
non-nutritional fluff.

I think we, as authors, ought to possibly not identify ourselves as Mormon,
or LDS, and just let our beliefs and religious affiliation show in our work.
Believe me the critics will point out our religion to the reading public,
just as journalists or our non-member friends point out our religion if we
are discovered in any sort of questionable activity.

What I'm trying to say is I think DB has their agency, and they are free to
interpret their vision and goal just as much as we are.

As writers we write about life and all its goodness, and inappropriate evil
whatever that is. Mortal life can never be perfect, but hopefully it is a
road leading to perfection. When we set out to tell a story, we cannot leave
parts of the story out just because those parts may not be perfect. How can
a reader see the goodness unless we contrast it with the evil. Just because
we are Mormon, doesn't make any of us close to perfect. Hopefully that will
come a little closer to the end of our story.

If our truthful portrayal of life as we see it precludes our work from being
found on DB's shelves, then so be it. There will be a place for our work
elsewhere if it is deemed worthy of publishing by the icons of the literary
world.

Regards,
Bill Willson





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Derek1966@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] Orrin HATCH, _Square Peg: Confessions of a Citizen Senator_
Date: 25 Nov 2002 20:46:39 EST


In a message dated 11/25/02 06:40:22 PM, harlowclark@juno.com writes:

<< Bono
thought about it for about 15 seconds and suggested, "Johnny Trapdoor."
Hatch told Bob Edwards he had taken the advice, so if you see any songs
by Johnny Trapdoor you'll know who wrote them. I wonder if they'll have
music by Janice Von Trapp Doerr. >>

Not likely anytime soon, since Sister Von Trapp Doerr is currently serving a 
mission in Santiago Chile with her husband.

-John [Von Trapp Doerr]




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Annette Lyon" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 25 Nov 2002 21:20:30 -0700

>From what you said of this particular book it doesn't sound like she
deliberately made a decision to seek out Michael or to cultivate her
feelings for him.

Actually, she does seek him out. She finds out he's in the area doing a book
signing. Her best friend offers to babysit so she can go see him there. And,
if memory serves me, she proceeds to have several outings with him--but in
public where there's lots of people, because that's okay or something. I
think they even share a kiss before hubby is conveniently killed in a car
wreck and hero man decides to get baptized.

Annette Lyon





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Levi Peterson" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Levi PETERSON, _The Backslider_
Date: 25 Nov 2002 20:55:52 -0800

----- Original Message -----
>From  Jeff Needle

"Night Soil" is my favorite.  Levi won't remember this, but we met some
years ago at Sunstone.  He was doing a book signing, or some such thing,
and I really wanted to meet him.  I told him about my fondness for "Night
Soil" and my displeasure with the small print in "The Backslider" .
----------------
The small print in the mass market edition of "The Backslider" is truly a
bother. However, the price seems to make the bother tolerable for a lot of
people. Thanks for being fond of "Night Soil." A good many people have
grumbled about that title. It appears to give all the stories in the
collection a kind of outhouse odor. I wrote the title story of the
collection in late 1984 just after completing "The Backslider." I still had
momentum from writing the novel, which had given me a sense that maimed or
offcenter characters could convey messages about God, and I decided to do
something in that vein in a short story. Pickett and his dog Vincent were
the result. Physically, Pickett was based on a fellow from west Texas I had
known in Snowflake, a refugee from the Dust Bowl, a Baptist, I think, who
had had a leg amputated and who, according to local lore, had insisted on a
Christian burial for his amputated leg. Spiritually, Pickett was based on a
dissolute nephew of mine, a half brother's son, consideraly older than I, a
defiant alcoholic who, in compliance with his own request, was conveyed to
his grave last year in a mule-drawn carriage in which a country-western
singer also sat strumming a guitar and crooning ballads. All of this I offer
by way of expiation for that title "Night Soil," which I hoped would express
my conviction that God is found intimately in the hearts of persons who
esteem that he is infinities away from the likes of themselves.

Levi Peterson
althlevip@msn.com


Thanks for taking pleasure in "Night Soil."
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jim and Laurel" 
Subject: [AML] re: Tickets and Temple Recommends (was: Y'All Need to Get Out More)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 22:54:20 -0700

Barbara wrote:

Wes pulls a guy over for speeding, and instead of showing his=20
driver's license, the guy flashes his temple recommend. I'll bet that
has=20
happened many times. I wonder what happened to anyone who tried that on=20
Robert Kirby in his cop days?


Unfortunately, this happens so often it is a tired clich=E9. Almost =
every
cop I know has had this happen more than once - and even though it's
tired and old, there are the rare occurrances when it really is an
honest mistake. Back in my BYU days, Neal Gunnarson, who taught "Patrol
Procedures," told of the day he, as a young patrolman in Ogden, stopped
a frail little blue haired lady for some traffic infraction. When he
asked for her drivers license, she fumbled through her purse, all
flustered and shaking, until she finally found a laminated card that
apparently felt like the real thing. He said it was obvious she was
completely undone by the experience and honestly thought she'd forked
over her drivers' license. Bro Gunnarson said he looked at it very
carefully for a while, then handed it back to her with a curt, "You're
lucky it's current," then sent her on her way without writing her.

More recently an officer stopped a fellow on a Saturday morning for
speeding. Generally, they just write the ticket and let the offender go.
But because of this guy's particuarly surly, aggressive, and
confrontational attitude, the officer instead escorted him to the
station to post bail on the ticket before letting him go on his way. The
whole time this man was in the building he kept up a long, loud, and
rather profane tirade against the officer, who was apparently doing all
this specifically to make the gentleman late for a temple sealing
session. The officer said later it was all he could do not to track down
the guy's bishop and suggest he be a little more nit-picky in future
interviews.

Laurel Brady





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone_ (Review)
Date: 26 Nov 2002 07:24:57 +0000

Thanks to the Keystone creators for their gracious reply.
I wish them good luck with their next book.  My main advice
is: Be willing to cut, cut, cut.
I forgot to mention that I liked the Corianton charachter
a lot.  He had repented of his past mistakes, and was
working to be a force for good, but was still quite flightly.
He was an interesting charachter.

Jeff Needle asked:
How did you ever get a copy in Japan???

I signed up to do the AML review.  Jana sent me the copy,
which I felt bad about when I saw how much it cost to send
that very heavy book.  Thanks, Jana.

Thank you Marilyn (if you are still there) for your very nice
comment, and congratulations on your second novel of the
year coming out, A Light in the Room (a revision of her 1983
award-winning novel, Goodbye, Hello).  You should tell us
about it.

I think you are too hard on the Daily Herald and Eric Snider,
however.  Eric is a tough reviewer, but he almost always finds
something positive to say (except for the infamous Storm
Testament).  I looked at his website, and out of the 500 or
so theater reviews, 156 were As, while only 10 were Ds and Fs.
And of the 21 Villa shows, 17 were As or Bs.

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 24 Nov 2002 05:40:09 -0700

Linda Adams wrote:

> I was asked to remove two fairly mild sentences from _Prodigal Journey_
> before publication, just in case a reader *might* complain and get the book
> pulled from the shelf. The publisher could not run that risk. I understood
> that, and made that small concession, although I still believe the scenes
> in question read better with those tidbits of information than without them.

So what were they?

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Travis K. Manning" 
Subject: [AML] DB Submission Policies
Date: 25 Nov 2002 12:12:31 -0800

I have enclosed information regarding DB's book policy as it relates to
author submissions and Author/Publishing Guidelines, from DB's Lisa Mangum,
Manuscript Acquisitions.  See the attached correspondence below.

Travis Manning

*************************************
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:48 AM


> Dear Mr. Manning:
>
> Thank you for your email. We have not updated our Author Guidelines at
this
> time. Part of the "new policy" that has been discussed lately is an effort
> to bring our Retail department buying guidelines more into line with our
> Publishing department guidelines. If your manuscript meets the criteria
> outlined in our Publishing Guidelines, we would happy to review it.
>
> Thank you,
> Lisa Mangum
> Manuscript Acquisition
> Deseret Book Company
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Travis K. Manning" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 10:59 AM
> Subject: New DB policy
>
>
> > To Whom It May Concern,
> >
> > I am writing requesting information about new Deseret Book author
> submission
> > guidelines.  I have a manuscript of a novel I would like to submit, but
I
> > want to make sure it is of your scope, vision, and standard.  I believe
my
> > manuscript is of "value to reders" and that many will "feel they are
> better
> > people for having read" my book, that it will be "uplifting and
> inspiring."
> > Your website says the following, but does not seem to clarify the new
> > Deseret Book policy as suggested last week by Sherrie Dew:
> >
> > RE:  DESERET BOOK WEBSITE:
> >
> > "Publishing at Deseret Book
> > As outlined above, Deseret Book publishes many kinds of books and other
> > products, but all of them reflect the values espoused by The Church of
> Jesus
> > Christ of Latter-day Saints. A book we are interested in will be:
> >
> > "Of value to our readers. They should feel that they are better people
for
> > having read the book and that they are getting good value for their
money.
> > The book should help them in their lives. It should lift and inspire.
> > Well written and well researched. Poor writing and careless research
> greatly
> > increase editing and production costs and often indicate that the
quality
> of
> > the book is not what it should be.
> > Unique. The book should stand out from the crowd by providing a new
> approach
> > to the subject. It should provide new insights, not merely recapitulate
> > material and insights already available in other works."
> >
> > Will you be updating your website to indicate more content-related
> > quidelines for author submissions?  If so, when?
> >
> > Thank you very much for your assistance.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Travis Manning







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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mary Aagard 
Subject: RE: [AML] Pain and Art
Date: 26 Nov 2002 07:55:58 -0800 (PST)

--- "Walters, Isaac"  wrote:
about what Scott Parkin wrote:


> 
> Joyce says there are two types of art:  good art and
> bad art and he
> associates good art with the static and bad art with
> kinetic.
> 

A great book that discusses cinema (art) in these
terms is PAUL SCHRADER's _Transcendental Style in
Film: Ozu, Bresson, Dreyer_.  This book discusses and
analyzes the work of these three directors.  Bresson
and Ozu especially seem to work with the idea that
good art is static.  It's an excellent book and will
help you think about "religious" art and even
transcendent art in every day subjects.  Their styles
are so completely opposite of the Golden Age of
Hollywood filmmaking.  It's an excellent book that I
recommend to anyone who thinks that the Hollywood
style in which current Mormon cinema is being made is
inadequate.

Mary Aagard  




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marny Parkin 
Subject: Re: [AML] Adultery and Consequences
Date: 26 Nov 2002 11:48:29 -0700

Ivan Wolfe wrote:

>I assume we mean fiction on both points? I've seen DB carry nofiction by
>Signature, and I've read reviews of nonfiction by Signature in BYU Studies.

BYU Studies made a policy a few years ago not to review fiction any 
more. I have never heard anything about caring who publishes a book 
to be reviewed.

Marny Parkin





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "jana" 
Subject: [AML] Gratitude
Date: 26 Nov 2002 20:57:38 -0800

Tonight my family attended an Interfaith Thanksgiving service. There =
were speakers from many faith traditions reading scriptures, prayers, =
and poetry of gratitude. I was particularly moved by a Muslim who =
chanted from the Koran and then read the translation in English. But =
there was one thing about the experience I found particularly =
uncomfortable.Two of the speakers, independent of each other, talked =
about being grateful that they had two legs, and this made them feel =
very blessed.=20

When they said this my kids looked at me with a puzzled expression. I =
only have one leg (though this might not be immediately obvious because =
I wear a prosthesis). A part of me wanted to stop the reading =
(especially the second one, a very gentle Catholic priest--he read a =
poem where the speaker was feeling jealous of a young girl's blond hair =
and then she got up to walk and the he saw she only had one leg and that =
cured his jealousy and made him feel grateful for his own two legs). But =
a part of me wanted to shrink under my chair. I wondered as I was =
sitting there, does everyone look at me with a secret sense of =
self-congratulation because they are not like me??

But I also think this begs a larger question.. can we feel truly =
grateful without doing so at someone else's expense? Sure I am grateful =
that I ate food for dinner and I don't live in a box. But does this mean =
I should devalue the lives of those who do?=20

My literary tie-in..

I have written many times about losing my leg to cancer (my Jan 2001 New =
Era article is one example). I like that is has given me many unique =
experiences and tales to tell (I can always fall back on the stories of =
my leg falling off to amuse at parties, it's a great excuse for being =
late to class, and I got out of a lot of high school PE). In many ways I =
enjoy the extra attention (like when I was on swim team I knew =
everyone's eyes were on me each time I was up for a race, or this =
weekend when I went rock climbing in my hi-tech sports prosthesis). Yet =
I have to wonder, is my life somehow less rich, less valid because I am =
lacking that basic, "gee, at least I have 2 legs so I should be =
grateful" qualification????

I don't know..I'm just rambling right now because, partly, I'm a little =
upset. But also because I am guilty of the same type of =
self-congratulatory thankfulness and tonight I am finding myself quite =
repulsed by it.



Jana Remy

www.enivri.com


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: [AML] Sheri Dew on New DB Policy
Date: 27 Nov 2002 12:27:45 -0700


Sheri Dew has contacted me regarding my response on AML-List about Desere=
t=20
Book=92s decision not to actively stock the Richard Paul Evans book.  Wit=
h her=20
permission, I=92m passing along her thoughts on the subject.  I think the=
y may=20
clarify some of the confusion we=92ve had over this.

<<<<<
Yes, we are a niche retailer. That should come as a surprise to no one. W=
e are=20
like any other retailer in that we are trying to match product with our=20
customers. Every bookstore in the country is doing the same, as is every=20
retailer. This was an economic/business/product decision and not a moral =
one.=20
It is not our prerogative to control what our customers choose to read. I=
t is,=20
however, our responsibility to try and fill our shelves with product that=
 our=20
customers want, will appreciate, and will come back for.=20

I hope it is not presumptuous for me to attempt to clarify just a couple =
of=20
points you made in your e-mail message. First, we will indeed continue to=
 stock=20
books that deal with the classic tension between good and evil. Thus many=
 books=20
on our shelves will deal with things such as adultery and abuse. But the=20
distinction we are trying to make is that books we stock must expose and=20
identify evil as what it is, and good for what it is. This is what most o=
f the=20
important literature of the world does. The challenge we had with Richard=
 Paul=20
Evans' book is that it paints a very sympathetic view of immorality, neve=
r=20
identifies immorality as immorality, and then appears to even reward=20
immorality. That's the distinction. Believe me, we absolutely could have =
sold=20
many copies of this book and thus have foregone revenue by the approach w=
e have=20
taken. We continue to support all of Richard Evans' other titles, and are=
=20
delighted to do so.=20

Second, the Wirthlin Study we did was a different kind of research projec=
t than=20
you might be familiar with. It was a kind of patented values-based resear=
ch=20
that attempts to get way beneath the "survey" approach and actually ident=
ify=20
what drives/motivates our customers. The actual values-based part of this=
=20
research did indeed involve just about 400 individuals, but this techniqu=
e--
which is unique to Wirthlin--has been used by enough companies and=20
organizations over the past 10 years to determine that it is projectible =
to a=20
far larger audience. Again, this kind of research is designed to get to t=
he=20
values that actually drive customer behavior. That is why we feel so sure=
 that=20
the results are not only projectible to our full audience, but are accura=
te as=20
well. You might be interested to know, though, that we have "tested," as =
it=20
were, these results on many subsequent focus groups as well as some other=
=20
numbers-based surveys to see if the results held up.
>>>>>
(end quote from Sheri Dew)

I'd like to add my own comments, but I have to get my family out the door=
 for=20
Thanksgiving.  But I'd like to publicly thank Sheri Dew for sharing her=20
feelings and added insights with us.

--Katie Parker=20




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rex Goode" 
Subject: [AML] re: New DB Policy
Date: 26 Nov 2002 12:26:01 -0800

I have mostly lurked in the last few months. I've been in school fulltime and
haven't had much time for email.

A thread called "New DB Policy" is bound to catch my eye. I'm interested in such
things.

The discussion has been interesting, but one idea was expressed that urges me to
comment. That idea was expressed in the notion of wanting to be able to go into
Deseret Book and feel safe in picking out a book that honored church standards.

I do not understand the idea of feeling safe due to external influences like
which bookstore I am in. A sense of safety and well being does not reside in a
store. Brand equity does not create true security. Knowing what to expect from a
merchant does not guarantee a sense of well being.

Safety and security are in-dwelling things. They come from being internally
prepared for whatever may come, wherever it comes from. "If ye are prepared, ye
shall not fear." That preparation needs to be easily accessible to our hearts
and our minds no matter where we are.

We all have in our souls certain triggers to negative emotions based on the
kinds of experiences we have had in life. I've had those emotions triggered even
in the temple. I've had them triggered many times in Deseret Book by book covers
wrapped around perfectly legitimate books. I deal with those triggers through
the comfort of my faith in Christ and don't need any policies or rearrangements
in order for me to healthily process what I might find.

Where is the spiritual fortitude it takes to begin reading a book whose cover
makes it seem safe and then put the book down when we discover otherwise? When
do we take responsibility for our own reactions to things instead of relying on
policies and cultural biases?

They could put the smuttiest trash you could find in on some of the shelves at
Deseret Book, and I'd still be safe walking in there to buy things to read,
because my safety comes from my own deeply-held personal standards.

I've always wondered why people feel that someone has to guard the trash from
them. If I'm safe in my heart, I'm safe.

Rex Goode








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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonathan Langford 
Subject: [AML] Re: Cultural Info for Missionaries (Comp 1)
Date: 27 Nov 2002 19:03:43 -0600

[MOD: This is a compilation post.]

>From mcnandon@hotmail.com Sat Nov 23 00:53:15 2002

My husband and I do a lot of world travel.  Sometimes we receive Culturgrams
from the tour companies.  I was surprised to find that they are made
available by BYU.  They are wonderful.  You can probably contact BYU and
make use of this excellent service.  The subjects we found helpful in these
Culturgrams for various countries were:  Customs and Courtesies, The People,
Lifestyle, The Nation, Economy, Education and Health.  This would be a good
place to start researching for such a book as Kathy Fowkes suggests.

Nan McCulloch


>>> kathy_f@cox.net 11/22/2002 6:45:28 AM >>>
>On another list a discussion has been underway this past week regarding
>preparing missionaries' manners and cultural understanding. A number of
>interesting anecdotal experiences were related and it occurred to me that
>here was a great publishing opportunity. Perhaps it's already been done! =
I
>don't know since I don't have a missionary son or daughter yet and have
>never thought to look for it.

BYU published something along that line--a series of short reports on =
different countries called Culturgrams. They licensed them to another =
company (Mstar.net). BYU has a link to what appears to be their future =
home (www.culturgram.com), but they haven't landed there yet.

MBA

>From marnyparkin@earthlink.net Mon Nov 25 15:44:39 2002

Kathy Fowkes wrote:

>Someone (not me!) could write a great book tailored to the LDS market on the
>customs and cultures of different missions all over the world.


I forwarded your question to a friend of mine. Here is his reply:

Dear Kathy:

CultureGrams is a product that fits your description and is used today by
LDS missionaries going to foreign lands. It began as a mandate from
President Kimball, developed into the Relief Society Cultural Refinement
lessons, and then--housed under various branches of BYU but ending up in the
Kennedy Center Publications office--eventually became a standardized,
peer-reviewed product sold to libraries, schools, businesses, and
individuals. CultureGrams joined a temporary Church corporation called
MSTAR.NET in 1999; in 2002 CultureGrams became Axiom Press, Inc., a wholly
owned subsidiary of Geolux Communications, Inc. It remains strongly
affiliated with BYU and offers a growing line of cultural reference
materials in both print and electronic formats. See www.culturegrams.com for
information, demos, or prices.

Andy Bay, Senior Editor



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] HATCH, _Square Peg_ (SL Tribune)
Date: 25 Nov 2002 02:40:13 +0000

Salt Lake Tribune
Sunday, November 24, 2002

Hatch's 'Square Peg' Is Fair, Funny and Flawed
BY MARTIN NAPARSTECK
SPECIAL TO THE TRIBUNE

   Square Peg  By Orrin Hatch; Basic Books; $25

    There are three positive things to say about Orrin Hatch's
memoirs of his 2 1/2 decades in the U.S. Senate, and one
negative thing.
    The book, Square Peg, is written in a friendly, easy-to-
enjoy style; Hatch, despite being one of the most powerful men
in the country, writes with sincere humility. His book leaves
you with the impression that this is a guy who would make a good
next-door neighbor.
    Also, it is a fair apologia, a reasonable explanation for
why he did what he did. When he explains why he supported
Clarence Thomas as a nominee for the Supreme Court in 1991,
for example, he convinces us that his memory of his emotions, not
just already-reported facts, is accurate. Even those who still
disagree with his support of Thomas should be convinced.
    Third, he is funny. In making a point about no political
ideology having a lock on any part of the country, he writes,
"There are Utah liberals just as there are San Francisco
conservatives . . . [although] I have to admit I have never
actually seen a conservative anywhere near Madison, Wisconsin."
In contrasting himself with his ideological opposite but
personal friend, Ted Kennedy, he writes, "Kennedy's personal life
has been rife with controversy. . . . Until recently, he has been
a constant target of the tabloids. Other than making the National
Enquirer's list of possible space aliens in Congress, my personal
life has never been of public interest."
    The problem is Hatch's tendency to use words as if they mean
less or more than they really do. Consider the book's subtitle,
Confessions of a Citizen Senator. There's not a single true
confession in the book, at least not in the sense he admits to
having done something terribly wrong.
    The closest he comes is to say he was wrong "to vote against
making Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday a national holiday."
But King's holiday is now a national holiday. Hatch writes, "I'm
grateful I was on the losing side." His regret falls short of
being a significant confession because his vote did no damage.
    Similarly, he repeatedly notes he has been criticized for
rough questioning of Anita Hill, who accused Clarence Thomas of
sexual harassment mostly because of inappropriate remarks she
said he made when she worked for him. He correctly points out,
several times, "I didn't question her."
    But, as he writes, "I understand that this doesn't matter. My
real offense was my relentless defense of Clarence Thomas." Hatch,
history and memory tell us, was rough on Hill without questioning
her, and in Square Peg he still is. He implies Hill was a liar
("You could believe Clarence or you could believe Ms. Hill, but
not both").
    Similarly, he suggests he is entitled to be considered as
bold as John Kennedy was in 1960 when his "Catholicism was an
issue" and "He overcame this prejudice by addressing it
directly." He's entitled to that laurel, he suggests, because
"One poll found that 18 percent of all Americans would not vote
for a Mormon for president. I hoped that by running a
respectable campaign, I could expose and eliminate this
ridiculous prejudice."
    But he doesn't cite a single instance in which, like Kennedy,
he addressed it directly, or even indirectly. Hatch is claiming
a boldness on this issue to which he is not entitled.
    Every writer who wants to be taken seriously as a writer
should expect his words to be analyzed beyond their surface
meanings, to be searched for connotations and subconscious
implications. Square Peg is friendly, fair and funny. It is also seriously 
flawed.
    -----
    Martin Naparsteck reviews books from and about the West for
The Salt Lake Tribune.

Copyright 2002, The Salt Lake Tribune





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D. Michael Martindale" 
Subject: [AML] CHEYENNE, _The Keystone: The Day Alma Died_ (Review)
Date: 22 Nov 2002 15:04:48 -0700

The Keystone: The Day Alma Died
b. v. cheyenne, with Glen E. Sudbury and Michael E. Coones
2002 Keystone Project, Salt Lake City
Hard cover, 749 pages


     "Michael Ritchie, Where Are You When We Need You?"


When news of this book first hit AML-List, I was intrigued. I
immediately went to the Keystone Project website and scoped it out. I
was still intrigued. I had the same apprehension I have when I hear of
any ambitious, pretentious Mormon art project (e.g.: "I expect to puke
at the upcoming Book of Mormon movies"), but I was still intrigued
enough to _hope_ this one might succeed, and curious enough to find out
if it would.

I invoked my reputation of writing reviews to request a reviewer's
complimentary copy of the book, and they graciously accomodated me. When
the package came in the mail, I sat down with it to read the book,
expecting to give it an honest read and an honest public critique.

But when I broke the package open, I found that along with the book came
instructions--yes, instructions!--on how to read it. The instructions
encouraged me to give the book a fair chance, because it was slow
getting started. An accompanying cover letter even contained
instructions from the author's wife to start with chapter seven, because
that was where the story really began. This was even more interesting
considering the fact that another insert instructed me to be sure to
read from the beginning, so I'd "know the terrain."

I knew before I cracked the book I was in trouble.

In the first part of the book is a list--a very lengthy list--of
characters, with explanations of who they are, because I'm going to have
a hard time keeping them straight. All the names were very
exotic--nothing you'd find in the Book of Mormon. But upon scanning
them, I noticed some familiarity in the names. I began to realize that
these _were_ Book of Mormon names, but phonetically spelled, apparently
with the intent of making them look authentic according to some kind of
research the authors had done. Names like AmAalakYah and GadYanTun and
KixCumMon. Viewing the list made me long for the simplicity of a Russian
novel with its jumble of names.

With two strikes already against it, I took the wife's instructions to
heart and began with chapter seven. As a member of three writers groups
and a judge of a short story contest, I'd had my fill of reading stories
where the writing begins much earlier than the actual story.

With the first sentence I discovered strike three. This book was written
in present tense. I thumbed through the chapters to see if I had
perchance hit a "literary" moment in the book. No, they expected me to
read seven hundred pages of present tense.

In my critiquing career, I've learned that present tense stories
indicate one of two things: an accomplished writer who's going for a
certain effect and knows what he's doing, or a rank amateur who thinks
he's being clever and literary by writing in present tense, but
otherwise has no discernable reason why he chose that style. Take a wild
guess which category _The Day Alma Died_ falls into.

It didn't take many paragraphs to realize that the author--authors? who
knows?--had a major fetish for italics and exclamation marks, preferably
combined into the same sentence. These italicized exclamations were
usually editorializing asides. Apparently the author(s) thought the
writing alone wasn't up to the task of conveying to me what I should
think or feel. And frankly, I think they were right in that. Strike
four.

It didn't take many pages before I began to realize that I may very well
be reading the worst book I have ever encountered.

If chapter seven was where the story began, I managed to avoid a literal
hell (or should that be "literary hell"?) by not reading chapters one
through six. If chapter seven was where the story began, then I don't
know the meaning of the English word "story."

There was no story. There was an elaborate series of sentences written
in purple prose that described a scene. A scene with a pacing that
reminded me of an old _Outer Limits_ episode where some aliens with a
time machine went back and forth over the same few seconds of time on
Earth to study a murder of passion. They kept slowing the time down more
and more until they could see the bullet flying through the air. Chapter
seven, the alleged beginning of the story of the day Alma died, moved
slower than that.

Somewhere in that chapter, I gave up counting strikes. I trudged through
it with the despair of Atreyu in _Neverending Story_ trudging through
the swamps of sadness after his horse Artax sank into the mud. I was
elated when I reached the end of it. But the elation was short-lived:
fast on the heels of chapter seven came chapter eight.

With the courage of a kamikaze pilot, I dove into chapter eight. The
same dreamlike--or should I say nightmare-like?--sluggishness taxed my
patience beyond human endurance. _Job_ would have thrown the book
against the wall by then.

I plodded through chapter nine, truly believing I was tasting the depths
of hell and that life could never get worse than this. But I was wrong,
because at the end of chapter nine, something even more terrible
happened. Chapter ten started.

I had reached the end of my endurance. I had nothing left to give. The
book dropped to the floor and I slunk back in my chair, spent of all
energy and emotion and hope for the future. I actually began to feel
nostalgic for the days I was reading Michael Ritchie's _Disoriented_.

There was no way I could consume another word. Life was too precious and
my ability to withstand searing pain too limited. If suffering is truly
what creates a gifted artist, I was about to become another Mozart.

Alas, my suffering had not yet ended. The Keystone Project had been kind
enough to give me a complimentary copy of their book, in good faith,
expecting a review in return. But I couldn't bring myself to write the
review I would have to write.

I just knew this project was an important event in the lives of those
who realized it. I'm sure a great deal of emotional investment went into
it. I can see in my mind how excited they must have been when they
handled the first bound copy that came off the press. And make no
mistake about it, the printing of the book is the only thing they got
right--it's a quality job and feels very professional in one's hand. It
must have cost a bundle of someone's hard-earned cash.

There can be no question that they sent the book to me with the
expectation of a glowing review that would help to open the floodgates
of acceptance of their project for the edification of LDS members
everywhere. And all I could offer in return was a review that would be a
slap in the face.

Or perhaps a better metaphor would be a cold splash of water in the
face. Because that's exactly what the Keystone Project needs.

The project, for all its ambition and effort and scope and good
intentions, is a dismal failure. No one will have the endurance to read
the first book (no one not married to the author, anyway), let alone
thirty volumes, which is the lofty goal of this endeavor.

The Keystone Project is a vivid, extreme illustration of the abject
futility of creating Mormon literature simply because one is "inspired."
These people were going to bring the Book of Mormon to life. They were
going to instruct and edify the Saints with thorough research into the
time period in question (and holy moley did they cram that research into
the pages!) They were going to build the kingdom of God with the
ultimate literary adaptation of the Book of Mormon. Their motivations
are to be lauded, their sincerity unassailable.

But they forgot to include one crucial ingredient. They forgot to
commission an author who had the slightest clue how to write.

It's been several months since I read those two chapters. I couldn't
bring myself to write the review. I even tried to return the
complimentary copy by personally driving down to the Keystone Project
office and explain to them why I couldn't write the review. But the
"suite number" of the return address on the packaging was one of those
mail service P.O. boxes--and a mail service which had moved no less.
Already the address was out of date.

I finally decided to submit the promised review after someone else
submitted one to AML-List that was nearly as scathing as mine would be.
At least that way I wouldn't be administering the first slap to the
face.

-- 
D. Michael Martindale
dmichael@wwno.com

==================================
Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at
http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths

Sponsored by Worlds Without Number
http://www.wwno.com
==================================




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "S. Malmrose" 
Subject: Re: [AML] Orrin HATCH, _Square Peg: Confessions of a Citizen Senator_
Date: 25 Nov 2002 22:51:41 -0500

>One final thing, after talking about the need to protect the rights of
>artists to the income that comes from their creations, Hatch said U2's
>Bono came to him for help on some projects having to do with African AIDS
>and such, and about the third time Bono came into his office he said,
>"Let's hear your music senator." Hatch played some. "That's beautiful,
>senator, but the brothers aren't going to sing it, because of who you
>are." Hatch asked what he should do about it. "Change your name." Bono
>thought about it for about 15 seconds and suggested, "Johnny Trapdoor."
>Hatch told Bob Edwards he had taken the advice, so if you see any songs
>by Johnny Trapdoor you'll know who wrote them. I wonder if they'll have
>music by Janice Von Trapp Doerr. 

Bono was my idol when I was 15. I still to this day have that reflex of--"how cool!" So thanks for sharing that. :)

Susan M




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew Hall" 
Subject: [AML] EVENSON, _Dark Property_
Date: 26 Nov 2002 07:36:28 +0000

Make sure the kids are safely inside and lock the doors, Brian
Evenson has a new novel out this month.  It is called _Dark
Property_, and is published by Four Walls Eight Windows. Here
is the blurb from the publisher:

A woman carries a dying baby across a desert waste, moving
toward a fortress harboring a mysterious resurrection cult.
Menaced by scavengers, she nevertheless begins to suspect
that the reality within the fortress may be even more unsettling
than the blasted environment outside. As she slips unobtrusively
towards the city of the dead, she is pursued by a bounty hunter
who cuts a bloody swath after her. On one level, Dark Property
is an exploration of religious fanaticism. Although Evenson=92s
characters owe more to the Book of Mormon than the Koran, their
frightening intensity will spark recognition in both reviewers
and readers. This brooding tale is reminiscent of Cormac
McCarthy=92s Blood Meridian and J. G. Ballard=92s more disturbing
works of fiction. "I admire Evenson=92s writing and respect his
courage." =97 Andrew Vachss.

In other Evenson news, University of Nebraska Press/Bison Books
published a paperback version of his first 1994 short story
collection _Altmann=92s Tounge_ earlier this year.  The new
version also includes his 1997 O. Henry Award winnig story
"Two Brothers", a new introduction by Alphonso Lingis, and a
postscript by Evenson about the fallout from the book which led
to him leaving BYU.

Andrew Hall
Fukuoka, Japan


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*=20
http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/virus





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Preston" 
Subject: [AML] Box Office Report Nov. 22
Date: 26 Nov 2002 15:37:41 -0600

Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors

Weekend Box Office Report  (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross)

Weekend of November 22, 2002

Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com

[If table below doesn't line up properly,
try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier
- Ed.]


Natl  Film Title                Weekend Gross
Rank  LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor  Total Gross Theaters Days
---  ----------------------------- -----------  -----  ----
 4   The Santa Clause 2             10,210,369  3,251    24
     Ken Daurio (screenwriter)      94,944,099
     Cinco Paul (screenwriter)

19   Punch-Drunk Love                  422,209    411    45
     Actors/characters:             17,277,359
         David Stevens,
         Nathan Stevens,
         Michael D. Stevens,
         Jim Smooth Stevens (James Smooth)

54   Master of Disguise                 27,460     68   115
     Perry Andelin Blake (director) 40,363,530

62   Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man   19,372      5   934
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   14,354,676

65   Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure   12,321      8   654
     Scott Swofford (producer)      13,651,884
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)
     Sam Cardon (composer)
     Stephen L. Johnson (film editor)

70   Galapagos                           8,329      4  1123
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)   13,832,579

71   Jack Weyland's Charly               8,327     11    59
     Adam Anderegg (director)          518,325
     Jack Weyland (book author)
     Janine Gilbert (screenwriter)
     Lance Williams, Micah Merrill (producers)
     Tip Boxell (co-producer)
     Bengt Jan Jonsson (cinematographer)
     Aaron Merrill (composer)
     Micah Merrill (film editor)
     Actors: Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliott,
        Adam Johnson, Jackie Winterrose Fullmer,
        Diana Dunkley, Gary Neilson, Lisa McCammon,
        Randy King, Bernie Diamond, etc.

83   China: The Panda Adventure          2,934      6   486
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    2,952,518

100  Mark Twain's America 3D               969      2  1606
     Alan Williams (composer)        2,286,499

105  ESPN's Ultimate X                     345      3   199
     Reed Smoot (cinematographer)    4,197,175

110  The Other Side of Heaven               54      1   346
     Mitch Davis (writer/director)   4,720,112
     John H. Groberg (author/character)
     Gerald Molen, John Garbett (producers)
     Steven Ramirez (film editor)



SC2 DOING WELL - "Santa Claus 2" (written by Latter-day
Saint screenwriters Ken Daurio and Cinco Paul) ended the
weekend with a box office total of just under $95 million,
surpassing Samuel W. Taylor's "Flubber" ($93 mil.). This
puts "Santa Claus 2" behind only "As Good As It Gets" ($149
mil) and Keith Merrill's "Grand Canyon: Hidden Secrets"
(est. U.S. gross $280 mil.) on the list of top-grossing
films written by LDS writers. (Of course, "Flubber" was
merely based on Taylor's short story. Taylor wasn't the
screenwriter, although he DID do some screenwriting, in
addition to his novels, such as _Heaven Knows Why!_ and
non-fiction work, such as his biography of his grandfather,
President John Taylor.) Children everywhere can hope that
with the royalties the jolly old elf ought to be getting for
the use of his name and likeness in this "Santa Claus 2", it
will be a very merry Christmas after all.


TOP AND BOTTOM - It certainly doesn't mean anything, but
it's interesting to note that "The Other Side of Heaven",
which already holds the record for the largest box office
gross in a single weekend among LDS Cinema films also set
the record for the smallest reported box office gross in a
single weekend for an LDS Cinema film in theaters this week.
Playing in just one theater, the film grossed a mere $54
this weekend.


ASSOCIATED PRESS ARTICLE ON LDS FILM GOES NATIONAL - Wow,
this A.P. article is popping up everywhere. Associated Press
reporter C. G. Wallace's article about LDS Cinema appeared
over the weekend in a number of papers and web sites
nationwide. The article presents quotes from interviews with
three of the leading figures in LDS filmmaking: Richard
Dutcher ("God's Army", "Brigham City", "The Work and the
Story"), Kurt Hale ("The R.M.", "The Singles Ward"), and
Thomas C. Baggaley ("Spirit of the Sabbath", "The Work and
the Story", LDSFilm.com). Salt Lake Tribune movie critic
Sean P. Means is also quoted (and, according to Means,
misquoted). The article mentions "God's Army", "The Other
Side of Heaven", "The Singles Ward", "Handcart" and "Jack
Weyland's Charly." One thing that could be pointed out...
The article tells a single, very compact, condensed story.
It isn't really a survey of the subject or an in-depth
article. The interviewer talked at length to Tom Baggaley,
Richard Dutcher, Kurt Hale, and Sean P. Means. These people
gave the interviewer widely divergent viewpoints and
discussed a wide range of subjects. The journalist then
condensed everything into a single idea, which makes it
sound like the people interviewed all spoke with one accord.
Whatever. Neither LDSFilm.com nor the other people
interviewed necessarily agree or disagree with any of the
journalist's specific conclusions. We're all just glad to
see the local film scene receive continued exposure in
national media.

Newspapers and web sites where the C.G. Wallace LDS Cinema
article has appeared during the past week include:
Washington Post; San Francisco Chronicle; CNN.com; Times
Picayune (Louisiana); Arizona Republic; The News-Press
(Florida); Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Wisconsin); The
Advocate (Southern Connecticut); Baltimore Sun; Sarasota
Herald-Tribune (Florida); Corpus Christi Caller Times
(Texas); Billings Gazette (Montana); Tacoma News Tribune
(Washington); WSB Radio (Atlanta, Georgia); Lycos News; WPVI
(ABC Action News); Zap2it.com; SunSpot.Net (Maryland);
SunSpot.Net (Maryland)Record Searchlight / Redding.com. Most
of the newspapers ran the story under the AP-provided
headline "Mormon cinema is on a mission for profits," or
something very close to that. But other headlines were used
as well, including: "Mormon Movies Invading Utah", "Local
Mormon Films Make Millions", "Mormon cinema thrives on
captive audience", "50s-sensibility movies find big
audiences in Utah", "Quantity, not quality, criticized of
movies with Mormon theme", "Mormon films compromised by
mission for profits", and "Mormon filmmakers, once inspired,
now on mission for profit." Clearly some of these headlines
are more positive than others.


MERRILL ON MAKING A MOVIE BASED ON THE BOOK OF MORMON -
Meridian Magazine ran a very good article by Kieth Merrill
on the two announced projects to film Book of Mormon movies.
Included is budget information: Estimated $8 mil. for the
DeVore/Johnson project and estimated $2 mil. for the Gary
Rogers project. Of course, neither of these groups of
filmmakers has begun principal photography yet, although
Rogers has already held one audition and call backs, and is
currently accepting video tape auditions, while the DeVore
group has done some location filming in the Middle East
which may be used in the feature film as well as the
accompanying documentary. The article is at:
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/021122movie.html


MEANWHILE, Latter-day Saint-themed films which have ALREADY
been filmed and are currently in post-production, with plans
for early 2003 theatrical release:
The R.M. (Kurt Hale/Dave Hunter/Kirby Heyborne/Will Swenson)
The Work and the Story (Nathan Smith Jones/Richard Dutcher)
Suddenly Unexpected (Mark Potter/Tucker Dansie)

All three of these are comedies. Also essentially in the
can, distribution plans unkown: Day of Defense, the
courtroom/missionary drama directed by Adam Lawson. Also in
post-production: The Legend of Johnny Lingo (Jerry Molen,
John Garbett, Steven Ramirez). A great animated feature film
made Church members which is COMPLETE and has been screened
at film festival, but which you haven't seen yet, as
distribution is pending: The Princess and the Pea (Swan
Animation).


BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE SITE UPDATES - There are sneak previews
of some of the set preparations and updated casting
information on the web site for the Book of Mormon Movie
Volume One (which is the Gary Rogers version, if you are
trying to keep track of the two different projects). The
website posted photographs from callbacks, revealing some of
the celebrities who auditioned for parts in the movie. These
include: Roberta Shore (best known as "Joyce Kendall" on the
1950s TV series "Father Knows Best", co-star of "Annette"
with Annette Funicello, co-star of Disney's "The Shaggy
Dog", etc.), Kirby Heyborne (star of "The Singles Ward", and
the upcoming movies "The R.M." and "The Best Two Years of My
Life"), leading 2nd generation Osmond singer David Osmond
(who has starred in the title role in numerous productions
of "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat"), talented
stage actress Rachel Woodward (star of Hale Center Theater's
"The Diary of Anne Frank"), Todd Davis ("God's Army"),
Michael Flynn (Stripes, Testaments of One Fold and One
Shepherd, Rockwell, The Goodbye Bird, A Home of Our Own,
Halloween 4, Savannah Smiles, etc.), Jan Broberg Felt (who
played the mom in Blair Treu's "Little Secrets" and T.C.
Christensen's "Bug Off!"), Bryce Chamberlain (Day of
Defense, The Creator's Game, Man's Search for Happiness,
etc.), Tony Larimer (I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus, No
Dogs Allowed, The Crow: Salvation, No More Baths, American
Prophet: The Joseph Smith Story, etc.), and UVSC track and
field star Carrie Stringfellow. See
http://www.bookofmormonmovie.com/location/index.html and
http://www.bookofmormonmovie.com/cast/index.html


FEATURE FILM DIRECTOR WANTED - Blue Crow Productions, Inc.
is looking for a director to helm its feature film
adaptation of Robert Farrell Smith's comedic novel "Baptists
at Our Barbecue". LDSFilm.com was asked to send notice of
the available position to its mailing list. Interested
directors were asked to submit resumes and video samples of
their work to the production company in Albuquerque before
December 16, 2002. Production is slated to begin in the
Spring of 2003. Currently, the estimated budget for the
production and post-production of this full-length feature
film is $500,000. _Baptists at Our Barbecue_ is a very
well-reviewed, very funny book and we think this looks like
a very attractive project. The comedic novel about
Latter-day Saints is sold at Deseret Book and other
Latter-day Saint bookstores.


LITTLE SECRETS AND BRIGHAM CITY LAUDED - The magazine
Christianity Today has an entirely positive article about
Blair Treu's feature film "Little Secrets." Douglas LeBlanc
notes that "'Little Secrets' avoids theological lectures but
delivers an engaging story." The article observes: "'Little
Secrets' is part of a growth industry among Mormon
filmmakers, though the only presence of Mormonism in this
film is its location shooting in Salt Lake City." About the
film, the writer states: "'Little Secrets' caught much
critical flak for being too squeaky-clean, but that's a bum
rap. It works in a subplot involving drunken driving and
engages the point well. Further, 'Little Secrets' (and
Richard Dutcher's much darker and challenging 'Brigham City'
from 2001) are models of how to tell faith-based stories
without hammering people with theological lectures." The
only thing we might quibble with isthe headline: "Mormon
Film a Lesson in Telling Faith-Based Stories." Aside from
the obvious point that a publication such as Christianity
Today should use the term "Latter-day Saint" rather than
"Mormon," it is somewhat inaccurate to call "Little Secrets"
a "Mormon film." The movie is NOT set in Utah, and its
characters are NOT Latter-day Saints, although the director,
most of the supporting actors and most of the crewmembers
are. The article can be found at:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/012/42.88.html

The article does not point out that national secular movie
critics as well as critics for Evangelical and Protestant
publications have consistently given better reviews to
Latter-day Saint-made feature films than to other Christian
market films. We've lost count of the number of reviews by
Evangelicals we have read which have criticized the Church,
yet bemoaned the fact that Evangelical-made movies have
consistenly failed to be as well-made as Latter-day
Saint-made movies. Of course, even Latter-day Saints have
far to go before matching the collective filmmaking talent
of the Catholic and Jewish communities.


THE SMITH FAMILY A FAVORITE - Latter-day Saint filmmaker
Tasha Oldham's GLBT/LDS-themed documentary "The Smith
Family" was a favorite at the AFI (American Film Institute)
2002 Film Fest (November 7-17). The film took home the
Audience Award, amid fierce international competition.


ARTICLE ON MAREN ORD - Maren Ord, LDS singer and songwriter,
who will be having her acting debut in the HaleStorm
production "The R.M." is this subject of an article on BYU
NewsNet. See http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/40971 Ord's
songs have been featured in "The Singles Ward" and the
television series "Alias" and "Felicity". She also sang (but
did not write) the title song, "Shining Time", in the
feature film "Thomas and the Magic Railroad." She has her
own CD release, titled "Perfect", and was included in the
compilation CD "Welcome to Brigham", which featured songs
inspired by Richard Dutcher's "Brigham City."


DANSIE'S NEW SITE - For over a year now, Latter-day Saint
filmmaker Tucker T. Dansie has been producing his new series
of short films entitled "One of Life's Little Lessons" a
group of films meant to inspire people by teaching them a
lesson in each of their 5-8 minute stories. Dansie also
recently served as the Director of Photography for the
upcoming Latter-day Saint-themed feature comedy "Suddenly
Unexpected." Now Dansie has officially launched the "One of
Life's Little Lessons" website, where fans can not only view
the completed films, but can also keep up-to-date on the
series future films. Dansie plans to make up to 30 minutes
worth of material per volume of series before he will
release the volume on DVD and VHS for families to enjoy. Two
films remain to be completed in the 1st Volume. The last two
will be shot in 2003. Dansie's next film in the series "The
Wooden Bowl" was a short script Finalist in the 2002 LDS
Film Festival. Dansie has also taken his "Lessons" on the
road as he presents firesides based around his series of
films for local church groups. From young adults, to elderly
singles, Dansie shows his completed films and talks about
the "moral of the story" while sharing personal experiences
from his own life. These firesides have been successful thus
far, and can be arranged through the website as well, by
sending e-mail to Dansie himself. The site also offers
insight to future films, auditions, and a unique area where
fans can share their own unique "Lessons" for possible
inclusion in future series. Imagine, having your own "Life
Lesson" made into a short film. The website currently just
launched and will undergo constant changes. The site takes
powerful advantage of Flash 6 for viewing the films and
other navigation. All are invited to visit the sitetoday at:
http://www.oneoflifeslittlelessons.com




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: katie@aros.net
Subject: [AML] Sheri Dew on LDS Publishing
Date: 27 Nov 2002 12:32:38 -0700



Sheri Dew also had some interesting things to say about the kinds of books 
Deseret Book publishes.  I thought I'd post them separately from my previous 
post, again with her permission:

<<<<<

Let me say that I agree that some "LDS fiction" is fluff. If I might speak 
briefly from the point of view of the publisher, though, could I suggest that a 
lot of what your AML readers are talking about is much more a reflection of 
maturity--meaning market
maturity--than it is a reflection of what we, meaning Deseret Book, wish to
publish. Let me explain.

First, I want to go on record as saying that I believe LDS fiction has
matured quite significantly during the past ten years or so. Very simply,
we're seeing better fiction submitted (overall) today than we were ten years
ago (again, overall). But we can only publish what we have submitted to us,
and we are constantly looking for novelists who have the skill to weave a
great story, with believable and engaging characters, all while
communicating a meaningful message that doesn't bang their readers over the
head in the process. Manuscripts that meet this description are not
necessarily easy to find. Sure, there are some things we wouldn't be able to
publish. But the range of fiction that we could and would publish--if we
could find it--is enormous and surely gives almost any talented writer
plenty of room in which to maneuver. So I may just suggest that we feel the
quality of fiction overall is absolutely on the rise, that there has been
significant improvement in the past ten years or so, and that we're
constantly looking to improve even further.

I believe that the nonfiction produced in the LDS market is--overall--every
bit as good as that produced nationally; but in terms of fiction, we are
still playing catch-up. I would like to think, however, that we are making
significant progress. It is no small thing to write a novel, or a fictional
series, that is both commercial and well-written, and happily we have
published the work of several authors who fit into this category. And we are
constantly looking for more.

>>>>>>>
(end quote from Sheri Dew)

Have a great Thanksgiving, everyone!  

--Katie Parker




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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jhotodd@aol.com
Subject: [AML] Movies & Deseret Book
Date: 27 Nov 2002 10:08:43 EST

[MOD: Apologies that due to the holiday weekend etc., at least one of these links has already expired...]

The Columbus Dispatch recently had an article about Mormon movies and another 
on Desert Book and Richard Evans' latest novel.
Go to 
http://libpub.dispatch.com/
and search on "Mormon". This address is for a 7 day free archive. The 
articles appeared November 23 and 22.

JH Todd


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: RichardDutcher@aol.com
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy
Date: 27 Nov 2002 14:52:53 EST

In a message dated 11/27/02 12:34:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
Melissa@Proffitt.com writes:

<<  I find the
 movie "Titanic" so offensive that I refuse to see it regardless of whether
 the naughty bits are edited out.  >>

This is a strange statement to me. How can you be offended by a movie you 
haven't seen? Have the opinions of others closed your mind? I would be 
interested to know why "Titanic" is so offensive. 

I know a young filmmaker who earnestly believes that Jack, the Leonardo 
DiCaprio character, is a Christ figure and that the story can be interpreted 
as the story of a woman's relationship with her Savior.

It's a compelling argument, with a lot of internal support from the film. 
Think of Jack at the front of the ship, his arms stretched out in a pose that 
recalls the crucifixion. Think of how Jack teaches Rose "how to love" and 
"how to live." He even gives his life for her. She lives her life, devoted to 
him, and is then reunited with him after her own death.

We see what we're looking for, I guess. Some see only boobs in "Titanic." 
Others see Christ.

Richard Dutcher




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From: Matthew Lee 
Subject: Re: [AML] New DB Policy 
Date: 27 Nov 2002 12:01:36 -0800 (PST)


How is a bookstore true?  Well, how is a church or
anything true?  Merriam-Webster's (online dictionary
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary) lists the
etymology of the word true; "Middle English trewe,
from Old English trEowe faithful; akin to Old High
German gitriuwi faithful, Old Irish derb sure, and
probably to Sanskrit dAruna hard, dAru wood".  

Shouldn't Deseret Book be true and faithful to the
Church? Its mission statement says so (see
http://www.deseretbook.com/hr/mission).

Are shoppers really calling the Evans book "smut"? 
Has the book really been "banned" (such a dramatic
word)?  The posts on this list keep saying it can be
purchased as a special order item.  It sounds more
like a shelving policy than a banning. 

And why would it be wrong if it were a General
Authority who brought the Evans book to the attention
of Deseret? Why the distrust of those who have been
called?  Isn't this a primary part of their
responsibility? To set in order the affairs of the
Church? 

I honestly don't believe there is anything wrong with
recognizing selected people, places, and things as
"safe".  This determination is how all of us make
decisions.  Where to live, shop, drive, and yes, even
what to READ.  

When I buy food at either a restaurant or a grocery
store, I expect certain standards.  I think we all do.
 I don't believe I've given away any of my agency by
doing so.  I pick and choose what to purchase, and I
clearly understand that everything available is not of
the same value. Most of us would consider this being a
wise consumer.

So why, when this same line of thinking is applied to
Deseret Book, it's called giving away agency or
choosing not to think? 

Matthew R. Lee

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