From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 31 Jul 2003 15:18:57 -0500 --- Original Message --- >The polygamist women I recently met from the Colorado City area report that >their fathers told them that they were property to be disposed of or used >as the father chose, and if they objected they were going against the will >of God. These fundamentalists are NOT Mormons, although they read our same >Scriptures. I wish people didn't connect the words fundamentalists and >Mormons in their minds. > But they practice a form of Mormonism that used to officially practiced in Utah. The idea that polygamous wives are chattle didn't originate with the modern fundamentalists. Some of the early brethren believed and taught the same thing. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John W. Redelfs" Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 31 Jul 2003 11:08:00 -0800 Thom Duncan, replying from the Web wrote: >Well, Mormons who believe that the man is the absolute ruler of the family >and that the prophet is like the pope are more likely to go around killing >people than Mormons who believe that marriage is a partnership and the >prophet is an inspired but nevertheless human male. Ironically, depending >on which set of GA's writing and scriptures you wish to search, you can >find more than enough "official" support for either of those positions. I don't think you will find anything recent about man as "absolute ruler" of the family. To cite General Authorities in support of such a view one would have to go back over a hundred years, and in those days Mormons weren't the only ones with such patriarchal views. --JWR -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Passing of Cherilyn Hopkins Date: 31 Jul 2003 13:38:01 -0600 Richard, please accept my deepest sympathy. I am so sorry. The first little while will not be as hard as later on. I hope your skill as a novelist will help to fill some of the void you will feel. All of us want to wish you the best. Sincerely, Marilyn Brown -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: [AML] BARNEY, _Cremaster 3_ (Review) Date: 31 Jul 2003 12:59:49 -0700 >[MOD: Apologies for the delay in posting this review. Got misplaced in the >vacation and moderator switching cracks...] Must have been SOME vacation! >[NOTE: This review may contain objectionable material.] Yeah, next time maybe you could post the warning BEFORE the objectionable material! --lmg --------- OUR NEWEST WRITING PROJECT: Homeschooling Step by Step, Prima Publishing, Spring 2002. Everything you need to know about how to homeschool legally and effectively! How does your state rank? What's your child's learning style? What about college? Find teaching tips, teaching strategies, and more than 100 solutions to homeschooling's toughest problems! --------- A message from LauraMaery (Gold) Post Web site: E-mail reply: --------- . -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Travis K. Manning" Subject: [AML] John Krakauer on NPR Date: 31 Jul 2003 13:50:20 -0700 To listen to radio journalist Terry Gross' Wednesday interview with author John Krakauer, about his new book _Under the Banner of Heaven: a Story of Violent Faith_, click on this link to download the 24-minute audio stream. It's well worth it. I was satisfied that both Gross and Krakaeur were pretty careful about clarifying differences between Mormonism and Mormon fundamentalism. http://freshair.npr.org/day_fa.jhtml?todayDate=07/30/2003 Travis Manning -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dewey Remy" Subject: [AML] Religion and Violence (was: Krakauer) Date: 01 Aug 2003 11:56:18 -0700 While I do not agree entirely with Krakauer's careless use of the Lafferty case to prove a point (although if he's just trying to generate controversy to sell books, he's doing an expert job of it), it bothers me that many LDS are writing off Krakauer's tying of violence to religion. Religion is multi-faceted. Religion inspires people to pacifism as well as to violence. In the Book of Mormon we have the examples of the Anti-Nephi-Lehis refusing to take up arms in self-defense as well as of Nephi's inspired killing of the comatose Laban. For the purposes of this message, I would like to take a look at those aspects of Mormonism which may encourage some to commit violence. Like it or not, divinely-directed violence is a part of Mormonism. God has occasionally commanded his followers to kill in the scriptures. There is at least one example in the Old Testament where God commands his followers to wipe out an entire people in the Old Testament. In fact, in 1 Samuel 15, Saul is chastized by God for not being completely thorough in his massacre of the Amalikites. The oft-quoted seminary scripture: "to obey is better than sacrifice" is pulled from this genocidal context. Of course, there is also the example of Nephi being "constrained by the Spirit that [he] should kill Laban" (1Nephi 4:10). Perhaps this is completely hypothetical (maybe not--I know that there are those who were asked by Joseph Smith to participate in polygamous marriages who struggled, and I struggle with my certain aspects of my own calling with the scouts), but what happens when we are commanded, either through one of the Lord's annointed or through our own direct communication through the Spirit, to commit an act that is against our conscience? Mormons are a covenant-making people that has sworn obedience to God. What are the limits of this level of obedience? I agree with most of the Krakauer critics (and with Krakauer himself, in his interviews) that Mormons are, for the most part, good people. The Lafferty brothers were extreme cases. At the same time, however, I think that we should be careful of drawing a line and saying that those who stand on one side of it are wacko fundamentalists, and those on the other side are merely strict in their devotion and conservative in their religious, social and moral views. It would be worth examining tendencies which are in common to the more conservative segments of many religious groups, including: unquestioning obedience, strong reaction against modern secular society, and a strong sense of separation from the world (us v. them). These are problematic traits which in many instances are wellsprings for bigotry and willful ignorance, as well as violence. While we should be critical of anyone who wants to paint an unflattering picture of Mormonism with a broad brush (or of any religious, philosophical or cultural system, for that matter), we should be ready as a people to turn a critical eye inwards and see if there aren't parts of our own religious culture which generate more harm than goodness. John Remy UC Irvine -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eugene Woodbury" Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 02 Aug 2003 09:18:47 -0600 > These fundamentalists are NOT Mormons, although they read our same > Scriptures. I wish people didn't connect the words fundamentalists and > Mormons in their minds. Though, I assume that, according to the currently promoted usage of "Mormon," if a "fundamentalist" wished to claim membership in the "Mormon Church," we should have no objection. What outsider would not be confused by such hair-splitting? At any rate, I think we should hesitate from demanding that others make distinctions that we do not make ourselves. We blandly refer to "Islam," for example, without bothering to draw lines between Sunni and Shia and Wahhabi and Sufi--lines that members of those sects draw as definitely as we do between Catholic and Protestant. After all, for simple reasons of taxonomy, "Fundamentalist Mormons" must be to some degree Mormon; they certainly are not Baptist or Lutheran or Anglican. Nor is it by sheer chance that they happen to be practicing their particular brand of religion in Utah, and not in the hills of Appalachia. Eugene Woodbury -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi's e-mail" Subject: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 17 Jul 2003 13:37:37 -0600 Hey all you Listers! I've been out of the loop for several weeks, what with summer travel, a family reunion, location scouting, a film shoot, a children's writing conference, a film fundraising conference, picking my nose a lot from the dry desert air, and now the start-up of a very exciting new organization (which Richard Dutcher and I will announce to y'all officially in the very near future, and which I think many of you may enjoy), all of which has kept me from reading my AML mail (sorely missed by me) and from submitting any of my bandwidth-hogging tomes (surely not sorely missed by you). Anyway, in brief snatches here and there I've tried to quickly scan the backlog of e-mail and file things away for responses later. Having 12 and a half minutes to kill today, and scanning the latest mail, I saw Chris' funny little quip, below, and it reminded me that some time ago somebody dismissed Val Kilmer's interest in the role of Joseph as a "rumor" ( I'm not sure who it was, but it wasn't Chris, I don't think). Anyway, as we are a small and like-minded community here on the List, and as various of us are "in the know" about various projects and this is a fun place to share "insider information" (as long as it's appropriate to do so), I thought I should go on the record in this instance and set things straight. For those who may yet be in doubt, please note that I have seen with my own little eyes and held with my hot little hands Val Kilmer's personally signed Letter of Intent (sometimes agents sign them on behalf of clients, but not in this case) to play the role of Joseph. So it is not a rumor. Richard actually went to Val's ranch in New Mexico and they had a very nice visit about the role. I actually have VK's ranch address and phone number right here on the Rollodex, but that would NOT be a good to share on-line (although I know one or two people of the female persuation who would like it if I did!). So, it is no rumor. Mr. K is into it. Now, that does NOT mean that he will actually be offered the role once Richard finally raises the money, or that if he were made an offer he could actually do it due to schedualing conflicts. So, will he actually play the role? Probably not. Is he actually interested in the role. Very much. "Intent" is a tenuous thing. But, it can also be quite real. By the by, F. Murray Abraham is also offically attached, and his agent sent a Letter of Intent, which I have read. Several other big names expressed "availability" tot he project but did not complete intention deals (so will remain nameless)... that's about when the money ran out. Oh well. The thing you have to know about casting (and all you actors will concure), is that actors want to act. I don't care who or how big they are, they are always hungry for the next juicy role. As a producer, all you have to do is have a juicy role and enough cash to pay them something even remotely respectable, and you get your cast. Cast is no big deal... it is absolutely essential (creatively and financially), but it is not hard to get (with a budget). Everybody always thinks, oh they loved the role so much they agreed to do it, but you know, quite frankly, give me a million bucks and a couple of days to polish or tailor a script to a specific person, and I could cast just about anybody on the planet. Seriously. And yes, I'm also talking about LDS film. Unless an actor has some unmitigated hate towards Mormons, there's not a working actor out there who won't play a role we (meaning Mormon authors) write for them... if the price and the schedule can be worked out. Same if you write Jewish or Catholic parts, or a Baptist preacher role. Nothing to get too rumbled over. Oh, so as long as I'm incohearently rambling, what is the deal with "Baptists at my Barbeque" changing its title to this "Eating, Drinking" thing or whatever? The new title (whatever it is) is not nearly as good as the original, and it kills the obvious marketing tie-in from all the people who loved the original novel. Bad move, IMHO. What, were you afraid the firs t title would offend Baptists? Friends, wake up: You're Mormon; you can't NOT offend Baptists. Ciao for now. Jongiorgi Enos ----- Original Message ----- > Someone ought to forward this to Val Kilmer . . . -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: [AML] Thank You Date: 03 Aug 2003 07:54:22 -0700 I want to thank all of you for your thoughts, prayers, and kind words of condolence and sympathy over the passing of my wife, Cherilyn. I know she's up there having a ball right now, and that has comforted me--though it hasn't done much for the loneliness. But that will pass as I get used to my new situation. Again, thank you for your kind regards. Richard Hopkins -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 04 Aug 2003 10:31:25 -0700 I, for one, would be pleased to see Val Kilmer play Joseph Smith. He's going to have to smile a lot more than most of the other roles he's had. Perhaps he'll reach back to an early movie where he played a goofy college genius who liked wearing bunny slippers, could be serious when he had to and liked going against the status quo. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (NY Times) Krakauer Review Date: 04 Aug 2003 11:08:59 -0600 This is the best review of the book I've read yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/03/books/review/03WRIGHTT.html?8bu (requires free registration, I think) -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Elizabeth Walters" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 04 Aug 2003 13:05:22 -0600 Nothing against Val Kilmer, but I hope they don't cast him as Joseph Smith. I just can't see him in that role. It's almost as bad as the idea of Nicholas Cage playing Superman. Good actors, just not right for the part. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 04 Aug 2003 19:09:59 -0600 ---Original Message From: Thom Duncan > > But they practice a form of Mormonism that used to > officially practiced in Utah. The idea that > polygamous wives are chattle didn't originate with the > modern fundamentalists. Some of the early brethren > believed and taught the same thing. Um, I must have missed that speech. Which brother was it that referred to his wife or wives as chattel? I can't say as I've ever heard anything of the kind. Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 04 Aug 2003 19:17:22 -0600 ---Original Message From: Eugene Woodbury >=20 > > These fundamentalists are NOT Mormons, although they read our same=20 > > Scriptures. I wish people didn't connect the words=20 > fundamentalists and=20 > > Mormons in their minds. >=20 > Though, I assume that, according to the currently promoted=20 > usage of "Mormon," if a "fundamentalist" wished to claim=20 > membership in the "Mormon Church," we should have no=20 > objection. What outsider would not be confused by such hair-splitting? >=20 > At any rate, I think we should hesitate from demanding that=20 > others make distinctions that we do not make ourselves. We=20 > blandly refer to "Islam," for example, without bothering to=20 > draw lines between Sunni and Shia and Wahhabi and Sufi--lines=20 > that members of those sects draw as definitely as we do=20 > between Catholic and Protestant. >=20 > After all, for simple reasons of taxonomy, "Fundamentalist=20 > Mormons" must be to some degree Mormon; they certainly are=20 > not Baptist or Lutheran or Anglican. Nor is it by sheer=20 > chance that they happen to be practicing their particular=20 > brand of religion in Utah, and not in the hills of Appalachia. I think you'd have a stronger case for this if people would stop referring to us as the Mormon Church. If we were referred to as *a* Mormon Church, you might be able to make the Islam analogy. Islam is more readily compared to, say, Christian or Jewish as a descriptor for a broad tradition. Mormon is still singular and exclusively used to refer to the LDS church. People don't even call the RLDS church Mormon. I confess that I'm confused with what you mean by "currently promoted usage of 'Mormon'", though. I hadn't been aware of anyone promoting a new definition or usage for the term. Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John W. Redelfs" Subject: [AML] Fundamentalisma and Mormonism (was: Review of Krakauer) Date: 04 Aug 2003 16:46:27 -0800 Thom Duncan, replying from the Web wrote: >But they practice a form of Mormonism that used to officially practiced in >Utah. I don't believe that anything resembling modern fundamentalism was ever practiced in the early Church. Religions evolve. Especially those based upon continuing revelation. And to suggest that modern fundamentalism and the religion of early Utah are the same is to suggest that the religion has remained frozen in time. Somehow I doubt it. I'll bet that a careful comparison between modern fundamentalism and Mormonism as it was practiced in the 19th Century Church would uncover many differences. John W. Redelfs gazelem@zionsbest.com =========================================== "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley =========================================== All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: Soap Actress Also Activist Date: 04 Aug 2003 18:18:31 -0700 (PDT) [MOD: I'm not sure this is really AML-List news--an LDS actress is also an= =20 activist on social issues, big deal--but what the hey, list volume is low=20 right now... Thanks to R.W. for forwarding this and other items to the= list.] Soap star's other role? She's activist in Utah=20 By Sharon Haddock Deseret Morning News HIGHLAND =97 Anne Sward Hansen has always been passionate. Whether it's in her role as gutsy head nurse Lyla Montgomery Peretti on the daytime drama "As the World Turns" or as a frontline activist trying to stop urban sprawl, she's not afraid to fight. She speaks up. She centers on fine detail and she doesn't give up. "The first time I saw a kid toss a kitten down a storm drain, this=20 shy little girl became an activist," Hansen said, looking reflectively out the window of her Utah County home. "I had to say something." She figures she was about 6 years old then, not sure what she'd=20 become but certain that she'd do something about injustices. Today, years later =97 a true actress never tells her age =97 Hansen= is attempting to manage two full-time careers, that of a stage, screen and=20 television star and that of a full-fledged activist. She's trying to help her American Indian friends keep what she believes is dangerous nuclear waste off reservation land. She's working to ensure funding for tribal colleges. She's fighting a local development that will put a road right next to her home. As president of the Screen Actors Guild in Utah, she's trying to=20 resolve what she sees as inequities in right-to-work states like Utah =97=20 inequities that she claims restrict contract actors from working while=20 non-union actors enjoy union benefits. She's been at the forefront of battles to keep gravel pits out of Utah County communities and to curb cutting up open space into housing developments. She's worked to save manatees in Florida and to rescue wild animals kept as pets in southern California. "I've gone broke doing this, but I do all this because I love this=20 country and I believe in democracy," Hansen said. "For me, it is just immoral not to do something. With the Native Americans, I know that a lot=20 of Goshute lives are at stake." Sometimes, she admits, the stress of trying to keep a hand in both=20 worlds is high, especially when she's also a wife and a mother and an LDS celebrity in a Hollywood world. Born in Brooklyn, N.Y., Hansen came to Utah after she met and married a man who came from a pioneer-stock LDS family. She was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in New York in 1981, one year before she joined the daytime drama, where she was a regular cast member and singing star from 1981 to 1995. On the show, her character, Lyla Montgomery, came to the fictional city of Oakdale with two children, one the illegitimate daughter of Dr. John Dixon. She fell in love with Dr. Bob Hughes =97 but, true to soap-opera form, the relationship was doomed =97 and she finally married a much younger man on the show, Dr. Casey Peretti. Peretti, of course, died of a rare and incurable illness, but not before Lyla became pregnant with baby Katie. The baby was actually Hansen's real-life child. Hansen received special permission to bring the baby to the set and=20 onto the show, where she played the part of Katie for six years. Hansen said while soaps are filled with scandal-ridden stories,=20 during the time she played the colorful matriarch of the Montgomery clan,=20 storylines centered more on family issues and less on sensationalistic plotlines. She was generally comfortable with her character, although being LDS sometimes complicated things on the set. "Oh, it was extremely difficult," she said. "I'd come to a honeymoon=20 scene or something in the script and I'd have to say, 'Oh, I can't do=20 this.' To the producers' credit, when I was there, they were very=20 understanding." Hansen still frequents Los Angeles and New York to do movie and=20 television work but generally shies away from the glitz and glamour of the entertainment industry. "I really have no status," Hansen says without guile. "People generally don't know (I'm an actress), and I don't use it. A lot of people think I'm an attorney." That could be because Hansen =97 when taking the role of a=20 social-issue advocate =97 is articulate when she's making her case. = =20 =20 And Hansen knows she can command an audience. Lyla Montgomery Peretti is now a recurring character on "As the World Turns," which takes Hansen back to the show every 12 to 18 months,=20 most recently on the Christmas 2000 show, where she asked her stage=20 daughter's illegal alien husband not to break her heart. Hansen is bemused when people refer to her as "Lyla Montgomery." Although she keeps track of cast members, she says she rarely watches the show. "I didn't even know Bob (Hughes) was in a coma," she said, laughing. "I'd better call him."=20 E-mail: haddoc@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: Hope Misfired at BYU in '87 Date: 04 Aug 2003 19:01:20 -0700 (PDT) (R.W. Rasband says: I mostly disagree with the opinions expressed in this piece, but it's an interesting reminder of an amusing incident in BYU/Utah history) Friday, August 1, 2003 Hope misfired at BYU in '87=20 By Alf Pratte=20 =20 News of the death of legendary comedian Bob Hope reminds us all of=20 the contribution he made nearly two decades ago during a=20 less-than-successful evening at Provo's Freedom Festival. For nearly 50,000 flustered residents who heard him tell a string of off-color jokes at the Stadium of Fire event July 4, 1987, Hope will not only be remembered as one of the country's premiere comedians but will be=20 recalled as the one comic who helped establish what "community standards"=20 mean. "Community standards" is a legal term that says even though the=20 courts have ruled that most vile language and imagery is protected under a stretched First Amendment, there is still a small sanctuary where local communities can maintain higher standards from the language and images used as a staple in television, movies, popular recordings and comedy. That was the hang-up that Hope ran smack into when he launched into one of his famous sexist, girl-ogling monologues that have proved so rollicking in major urban centers and for lonely armed forces personnel deprived of their families and the opposite sex. Although Hope was warned beforehand by promoter Alan Osmond that his Utah audience had higher expectations than the 100 or so audiences he played before each year, he apparently forgot that not everybody appreciates comedy that is sexist and suggestive. Instead of selecting a different repertoire from the estimated 7 million jokes he had access to, Hope launched into a rapid-fire series of blue belly laughs. It went over like a lead balloon before the family-oriented audience expecting something more becoming from a much-loved jester. For just a few moments in his brilliant career in vaudeville, radio, TV and the movies, Hope was hopeless. As one who happened to be in the stadium the day, I was somewhat perplexed but equally fascinated at what transpired in the huge stadium. Much of the audience appeared dumbstruck. Although there were a few titters and some polite applause at first, the more Hope giggled over backsides, bosoms, bedrooms and other bawdy jokes, the quieter it got. Even though I do not consider myself a spoilsport, I was concerned for a wonderful wit making more of a fool of himself than he deserved. Hope was not obscene, pornographic or even lewd. But if your mother or sister were there to hear his double entendres, they might have reached for soap to bathe his mouth. I sensed a community struggling to keep its yardstick above those dictated by New York or Hollywood. I was delighted our town did not give Hope a cat call. I was even prouder there was little sniggering, giggling or laughing. After Hope's debacle, Lynn D. Wardle of BYU's law school told me=20 that the awkwardness, disappointment and discomfort many felt over much of Hope's monologue underscored a fact of life overlooked in the age of national media and homogenized entertainment. "Bob Hope is a national entertainer," Wardle noted. "He set his dialogue or monologue for a national audience. Sometimes he's considered a little risque. In other communities he was considered boring. At the very least, Hope's visit helped draw attention to the issue of local standards." Unfortunately, my impression based on the far cruder language and=20 images assaulting our ears and eyes through converged, corporate media today is that Hope's comments would not be greeted with the same silence as 16 years ago. Indeed, in the wake of the new breed of leering eyes and dirty mouths symbolized in the formulas of Jay Leno, Jerry Seinfeld, David Letterman as well as the other guests they expose, Hope's comments would appear innocuous. As tame as the past was, however, I will always be thankful I was at Cougar Stadium the night Hope told his blue jokes to a red-faced audience who forgot to laugh. As Molly McGee used to tell her hapless husband, Fibber, on their freewheeling radio program, "It ain't funny, McGee." For his many contributions to wit and comedy as well as to business, golf, and at times, even national morale, Hope and others of his generation and exposure must be honored and appreciated for their contributions to our culture. But in thanking them for the memories we must not forget how some have sometimes contributed to the indelicacy, sexism, rudeness, coarseness and crudity of our language and images and helped lower the bar of national standards. =20 =20 =20 Alf Pratte serves as a special assistant to the president of BYU/Hawaii. =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 18 July 03 Date: 05 Aug 2003 00:23:09 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of July 18, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 17 2 Fast 2 Furious 790,020 650 45 Paul Walker (lead actor) 124,028,375 29 Wrong Turn 135,930 111 52 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 14,872,646 48 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 36,176 9 892 Scott Swofford (producer) 14,988,449 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 55 Cremaster Cycle 23,348 4 87 Mathew Barney 357,749 (writer/producer/director/actor) 61 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 14,215 4 1165 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,397,333 75 China: The Panda Adventure 4,843 3 724 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,272,136 89 The R.M. 2,532 4 171 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 1,031,755 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. QUIET WEEK ON THE NUMBERS FRONT - It's a quiet week on the numbers front. "The R.M." is yet to move into California and other states and is still chugging along in the dollar theaters. August 29th seems to be the day when things are really going to finally start moving. Both "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" and "The Work and the Story" are scheduled to be released that day. "The Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey" will follow a couple of weeks later. For now, we just scratch around for things to write about... I took my family to a dollar movie last night (Monday) and "The R.M." was still sold out for its prime-time showing. Spotted at the theater -- legendary "Tennis Shoes" author Chris Heimerdinger, the director of the documentary "Lehi's Land of Ancient Inheritance." I believe he was there to see "The R.M." (We saw "Holes" which has no LDS connection that we know of, but is still a very fun movie - highly recommended.) OH YEAH, I GUESS THERE ARE THE EMMY'S TOO LATTER-DAY SAINTS/UTAHNS RECEIVE EMMY NOMINATIONS - The nominations for the 55th Annual Primetime Emmy Awards were announced today (17 July 2003) by the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences from the Leonard H. Goldenson Theatre, North Hollywood, California. These awards cover the period of June 1, 2002 through May 31, 2003. A number of Utahns and Latter-day Saints received nominations. Daryn Reid Goodall, a Latter-day Saint who was born and raised in Utah, received an Emmy nomination for Oustanding Art Direction For A Variety Or Music Program for his work as art director on FOX's "MADtv." He shared the nomination with production designer John Sabato and art director D. Martyn Bookwalter. Goodall also competes in the Oustanding Art Direction For A Variety Or Music Program category with the 75th Annual Academy Awards, "Cedric the Entertainer Presents" and The 45th Annual Grammy Awards. Another Utahn who received an Emmy nomination this year was non-Latter-day Saint actor James Woods. Woods, a native of Vernal, Utah was nominated for Outstanding Lead Actor In A Miniseries Or A Movie. Woods received the nomination for his starring role as New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani in the USA cable movie "Rudy: The Rudy Giuliani Story." Woods competes for the award with Paul Newman (who received a BAFTA nomination in 1971 for playing Mormon outlaw Butch Cassidy). Newman was nominated for his role in "Our Town" on Showtime. The other nominees in this category are William H. Macy ("Door to Door"), Brad Garrett ("Gleason") and Tom Wilkinson ("Normal"). Donny and Marie Osmond, who were previously nominated for an Emmy for their talk show, star in one of the TV commercials nominated for the Outstanding Commercial Award. The Pepsi Twist commercial titled "The Osbournes" was nominated in this category. The ad was produced by Hungry Man production company for the BBDO ad agency of New York. In the ad Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne are frustrated by their two quirky children Kelly and Jack, but then are even more horrified when the kids rip off masks to reveal that they are actually Donny and Marie Osmond. The Osmonds' commercial competes with "Angry Chicken" (Nike Footwear), "Fish" (PBS promo), "Sheens" (VISA) and "Squares" (Volkswagen Beetle). Finally, the Utah-filmed WB television series "Everwood" received a nomination for Outstanding Main Title Theme Music. The series is produced by Everwood Utah, Inc. in association with and distributed by Warner Bros. Television. The nomination went to composer Blake Neely. "Everwood," which features a number of Latter-day Saints and Utahns in recurring roles, competes in this category with NBC's "Boomtown," ABC's "Miracles," USA Network's "Monk" and a Showtime series featuring Penn and Teller. * * * * * * * * * NEW "BRIGHAM YOUNG" DVD DRAWS CROWDS - See Carole Mikita's report at http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=3D5&sid=3D38608 BLUE COLLAR ACTOR ON SALE - "Blue Collar Actor," the first feature-length release from New Jersey-based production company Liahona Films, is now on sale. The movie, which features significant amounts of autobiographical elements, was written and directed by Latter-day Saint filmmaker Jeff Profitt. Profitt stars in the title role. Profitt's real-life wife stars as his character's wife. There are some really very intriguing production photos and stills posted on the website: http://www.liahonafilms.com/BlueCollarActor.html I haven't seen "Blue Collar Actor" yet, but I'll let you know what I think after I do... It's certainly something a little different as far as independent films from Latter-day Saint filmmakers go... Distinguished by, among other things, its place of origin. LDS-themed feature films have taken place in New York City ("Out of Step", "Jack Weyland's Charly"), but even most of the New York scenes were actually filmed in Utah. "Blue Collar Actor" was made entirely in New Jersey. LEGEND OF JOHNNY LINGO GRAPHICS - Graphics and stills from "Legend of Johnny Lingo", which premiers in theaters on Labor Day weekend: http://www.ldsfilm.com/pm/JohnnyLingoLegendBIG.jpg * * * * * * * * * FILMING HAS BEGUN ON "THE HOME TEACHERS"/BROUGH TO A.D. - Press Release: HaleStorm Entertainment is pleased to announce they have begun principle photography on their third feature film, The Home Teachers. Shooting began on Monday July 14 in Provo. For additional information: Jed Ivie (801) 362-9063 Plus - HaleStorm Entertainment has announced that Brian A. Brough will be the unit production manager and first assistant director for their upcoming feature film "The Home Teachers," which is now being filmed in Utah County. Brough previously served as the A.D. (assistant director) for the Latter-day Saint-themed feature films "Brigham City" and "Out of Step." Brough is also the producer of the upcoming Ryan Little feature film "Saints and Soldiers." He produced the direct-to-video instructional video "Road to Riches" (starring Marvin Payne), and such BYU student films as "Freedom on the Water" (starring Lincoln Hoppe), "In Time of Need" (starring Lincoln Hoppe and Ruth Hale) and "The Last Good War" (starring Hoppe). Brough was also the production manager for HaleStorm's most recent release, "The R.M." The key people behind "The Home Teachers" are largely the same people who made "The Singles Ward" and "The R.M." Returning to their previous positions: Director: Kurt Hale Producer: Dave Hunter Screenwriter: John E. Moyer and Kurt Hale D.P.: Ryan Little The most significant new face who will have a big part in the movie is Jeff Birk, who stars in the lead role. Birk only had a bit part in "The Singles Ward," so he was not an above-the-line fixture in any previous HaleStorm release. Birk's co-star is Michael Birkelund, who was one of the stars of "The Singles Ward" and also had a supporting role in "The R.M." * * * * * * * * * SEE PRODUCTION PHOTOS FROM "THE HOME TEACHERS" - Here are about 6 production photos from the filming of "The Home Teachers", starring Jeff Birk and Michael Birkelund, directed by Kurt Hale: http://www.johnmoyer.net/hometeacherspage.htm EVANS IN "LIKEN" - LDSFilm.com has learned that Latter-day Saint actress Tracy Ann Evans, best known for playing Kirby Heyborne's mom in "The R.M.", is also featured in the upcoming direct-to-video musical version of the Nephi and Lehi story from the Book of Mormon, "Liken the Scriptures" (2003). DONNY ON CARTOON NETWORK THIS WEEK - Cartoon Network: Christmas in July posted by joshualane - July 20 2003 - 5:27pm Sun, Sand and Santa: CHRISTMAS IN JULY Heats Up Cartoon Network Lineup The Grinch, Scooby-Doo, Fred Flintstone and Johnny Bravo Gather for a Premature Holiday Celebration on Friday, July 25 at 8 p.m. (ET, PT) 9:30 p.m.: A Johnny Bravo Christmas- The pumped-up prima donna forgets to mail his letter to Santa Claus, so he goes on a wacky adventure to deliver it to the North Pole in time. Along the way to Santa's lair, Johnny seeks help from Donny Osmond in making (his own) spirits bright. MCDONALD'S NEW CD - Covenant is pleased to present a collection of beautifully arranged hymns by acclaimed pianist Marshall McDonald. Each of these favorites, masterfully performed by this talented musician, will invite a spirit of peace to your home and add to your listening enjoyment. This album is destined to be a favorite addition to your Sunday listening library. Songs include: I Am a Child of God, Did You Think to Pray, Be Still My Soul, Lead Kindly Light, Joseph Smith's First Prayer, How Great the Wisdom and the Love, Sweet Hour of Prayer, Where Can I Turn for Peace, As the Dew From Heaven Distilling, I Need Thee Every Hour, O Home Beloved, Jesus the Very Thought of Thee. Marshall McDonald is a 25-year-old pianist and composer from Salt Lake City, Utah. Marshall's first CD, Sunday Morning Light was nominated for two Pearl awards and won the Covenant Award of Excellence for the best-selling CD of the year 2000. Marshall was also nominated for "Best New Artist of the Year" in the year 2000. In 2001 Marshall released his second CD His Light Divine and composed a film score to Because Sunday is Special, an animated video that teaches the importance of the Sabbath day. A WORD REGARDING SCHEDULING - During the spring, only one LDS-themed film was released - "The R.M." Last fall, "Charly" and "Handcart" were both released. The last we heard, this fall, six LDS-themed films are expected to be released, including Gary Rogers' "Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey," "Saints and Soldiers," "Suddenly Unexpected," "The Work and the Story," "Day of Defense" and "Pride and Prejudice." Sounds like a log-jam! I only know of four LDS-themed films that are right now contemplating a Spring 2004 release - and who knows if all four of those will even be made. (We don't even include Jerry Molen's "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" since that one does not have specifically LDS characters, but is still certain to attract a large portion of the LDS theater-going audience.) Okay, we can talk about the glut of films and if the market can possibly support all of these films, but I'd rather focus on a little-talked-about point when it comes to theatrical releases of LDS-themed films. Why does it seem that lately producers of LDS-themed films favor a fall release over a spring one? Now, I'm not saying that filmmakers should get ambitious and shoot for a late-May, early-June release. That would be suicide. And obviously, there are forces at work that seem to favor films being completed in the fall, such as the favorable shooting weather in spring and summer. But there are several reasons that to me would favor taking a few more months on postproduction or just plain holding a completed film and releasing it in the spring. The first issue is the window of opportunity for an independent film to appear in theaters. There are basically two windows - one in the fall, between the summer blockbusters and the holiday Hollywood releases, and one in the late winter/early spring, after the holidays and prior to the beginning of the summer blockbuster season. A film that opens in the fall must open in September, maybe late August at the earliest. By Thanksgiving, first-run venues will be difficult to find. In other words, this is essentially a three-month window. The spring window is much longer. An independent film can open in January - competing against potentially Oscar-nominated films that opened in Los Angeles just in time to be considered (but most LDS theatergoers will pass on many of these anyway, as they are often rated R) and a bunch of garbage films that Hollywood didn't think could handle the holiday competition. Then, the window of opportunity for an independent film extends clear until the beginning of May - when the summer blockbusters start to come out. That's at least 4 months, maybe even 4 1/2. It just makes sense to take advantage of the bigger window. Secondly, LDS-themed films historically have done better during the spring months. The best month to have your film going strong? Actually, historically, it's April (for a number of reasons, most of them obvious). The worst month (historically) for LDS-themed films? November. Now, obviously, there are a number of things that can affect the historical numbers including which films have been released when and how many other LDS-themed films were playing at the same time (competition). We'll keep an eye on it and see if these trends change, since we at this point do have a rather small data pool (7 films that have reported box office gross totals). But it's still something to consider. Note: To accompany this post, Thomas has produced detailed graphs based on the actual weekly box office/theater number/etc. data for all of the films in the data set. These charts will be uploaded tonight to replace the charts at http://www.ldsfilm.com/compare/AllLDSCinemacompared.htm. Thomas also intends to update this charts on a weekly basis as new film data becomes available. * * * * * * * * * PROJECT GREENLIGHT'S DAGEN MERRILL - Meridian Magazine has a great full-length article written by Academy Award-winning Latter-day Saint filmmaker Kieth Merrill about this son Dagen Merrill, who was recently featured in the HBO TV series as one of the 3 finalist directors in the Project Greenlight competition, in which thousands of directors competed for a chance to direct a feature film produced by Ben Affleck and Matt Damon. The article is here, and it is a must-read: http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/030716hollywood.html CASTING "VOICE FROM THE DUST" (BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE) - Here is a lengthy article by Latter-day Saint director Peter Johnson about casting parts for characters playing "Church icons," i.e., figures from Church history or the Book of Mormon. Here are the parts Johnson will be casting for his upcoming movie: Mormon, age 74 Moroni, age 32 Nephi, must be able to play 16 through 24 Lehi, 45 Laman, 23 Lemuel, 21 Sariah, 41 Sam, 19 Laban, 40 Zoram, 30 Ishmael, 50 Here is the link to the article at Meridian Magazine: http://www.ldsmag.com/arts/030721casting.html ARTICLE ABOUT T.C. CHRISTENSEN - There's a great, in-depth article in the Daily Universe about Latter-day Saint director of photography and sometime director T.C. Christensen. I'm assuming that everyone who receives this message already knows who T.C. is, but if you don't... Well, I can guarantee you've seen his work. A lot. The article mentions T.C.'s upcoming movie, the feature film adaptation of "Saturday's Warrior." See the article at: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45046 NEW CREMASTER REVIEW - See http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/entertainm ent/1058357483275640.xml for a new review of LDS filmmaker Matthew Barney's Cremaster Cycle. ARTICLE ABOUT ARNOLD FRIBERG, ARTIST FOR TEN COMMMANDMENTS/BOOK OF MORMON - See http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jul/07172003/utah/76034.asp DE AZEVEDO, NO NOT THAT DE AZEVEDO OR THAT ONE EITHER - Hey, check out Rachel de Azevedo Coleman in the 3-volume video series she produced and stars in: "Signing Time." Rachel has a great voice, a unique sound with songs and musical scores written by Lex de Azevedo himself (her dad). Similar in some ways to her sister Julie de Azevedo, but different. These things are everywhere: Target, Walmart, LDS Video Store, Amazon.com. My kids have been watching these, and they're just crazy for them. They're running around the house making sentences in sign language. ARTICLE ABOUT LDS ACTOR RUSSELL ROWLAND - See http://www.timesdispatch.com/flair/MGB9LTLT7ID.html * * * * * * * * * AUDITIONS BEING HELD FOR 'JOSEPH SMITH' ROLE Auditions Being Held for 'Joseph Smith' Role (Salt Lake City, Utah) -- July 15, 2003 Deseret Media Productions, a company owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is producing a new film based on the life of the Prophet Joseph Smith. We are currently casting the LEAD ROLE: JOSEPH SMITH, The Man: -Height: 6'0" or taller -Age Must be able to portray from 21 to 39 years old. (Actors should be in their mid-to-late twenties.) -Build: Athletic, approximately 200-215 lbs. -Complexion: Fair with Light eyes Character and Personality: Charismatic, Positive, Intelligent, Passionate, Wise beyond his years, Deeply Spiritual, Approachable, Fun-loving, Athletic, Loves Children and people of All Ages, and others enjoy being around him. In short, a very well-rounded human being. ALL OTHER ROLES for this film will be addressed at a future date. Due to the intensity of this highly demanding role, we are considering ONLY seasoned actors with professional experience in theater and/or film. This will be a S.A.G. affiliated production, although auditions are open to ALL actors regardless union membership. As usual, preference will be given to members of the LDS faith although consideration will NOT be limited thereto. Actors of ALL faiths may apply. AUDITIONS are CURRENTLY taking place in New York and Los Angeles. Please contact the appropriate Casting Director for an appointment AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. (If you are LDS, please identify yourself as such when making your audition appointment.) Jackie Burch 310-360-6861 (office) 310-360-9134 (fax) 8601 Wilshire Place Suite 1006 Beverly Hills, CA 90211 Assistant: Tim Donner Elaine Huzzar 212-609-9383 (office) 646-214-7906 (fax) 451 Greenwich St. 7th floor New York, NY 10013 If you have any further questions, you may contact the Audiovisual Casting Producer: e-mail: AVDcasting@ldschurch.org Calls will be taken by: 1-800-453-3860, ext. 2-1965 * * * * * * * * * BOOK OF MORMON ON DVD/VIDEO - Covenant Communications will release the following product in October: Scriptures on DVD/VHS Book of Mormon on DVD Great blessings are promised to individuals and families as they study the Book of Mormon. Now, for the first time on convenient DVD, you can listen to the word-for-word narration of this sacred book while you follow along with the highlighted text on your television screen. Listen and watch while exercising, working around the house, or relaxing as a family. Studying the scriptures has never been easier. Other DVD features include: * Gospel Doctrine reading assignments -- a special menu helps you study the specific chapters for each Sunday School lesson. * Reading calculator -- this chart helps you see how soon you will finish the Book of Mormon by studying for a specified number of minutes each day. * Interactive menu systems--quickly navigate to any book or chapter with the click of your remote. * Bonus audio talk -- includes the classic talk by President Ezra Taft Benson, "The Book of Mormon Is the Word of God." * Over 25 hours of Dolby Digital Stereo Audio narrated by Rex Campbell. * Randomized Play option for a different chapter each day. 3 DVD set will have SRP of $39.95 5 VHS set will have SRP of $34.95 * * * * * * * * * JOHNNY LINGO A CHANGE OF PACE: "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" bears many similarities to director Steven Ramirez's previous feature work: He was the editor of "The Other Side of Heaven," also produced by Molen and Garbett, and also filmed entirely in New Zealand and Raratonga. "Heaven" was based on the memoirs of a Latter-day Saint apostle, recalling his mission in Tonga. "Lingo" is based on a story set in Polynesia, a story popularized by a Latter-day Saint-made film (although the story has no actual Latter-day Saint characters.) Both the G-rated "Lingo" and the PG-rated "Heaven" are a change of pace from Ramirez's previous feature film. He was the screen writer of the award-winning direct-to-video movie "Killers." Here is some additional info about "Killers," from the movie's official website: [QUOTE] Award-winning, cult film KILLERS will premiere at the Hermosa Beach Film Festival on Saturday, September 12 at 10pm. The festival serves as a launching pad for the film's September 22 home video release. KILLERS, produced by The Asylum, will be available through all major video stores including Blockbuster, Hollywood Video and Tower Records. A highly stylized action-thriller, KILLERS won Best Picture at the UK International Festival of Fantastic Films and played this summer at special midnight showings, alongside Quentin Tarantino's THE BEYOND. KILLERS, a frightening journey into Man's primal soul, follows a rich girl out for a thrill who becomes trapped in an abandoned warehouse. Hunted by five brutal killers, she is forced to undergo a horrifying metamorphosis in order to survive. The film stars Kim Little from the top-ten rated television series DIAGNOSIS MURDER and Chris Maleki of MELROSE PLACE. Also starring are David Jean-Thomas from CITY OF ANGELS and Frankie Ray who plays the vampire leader in this summer's number one action-horror film, BLADE. [END QUOTE] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Amelia Parkin" Subject: [AML] Mormonism, Fundamentalism, and Polygamy at Borders Date: 05 Aug 2003 21:05:05 -0400 i just found these two blurbs interesting. they came from the latest edition of the Borders Arts & Letters Vital Non-Fiction newsletter. the newsletter begins with this blurb: "When Elizabeth Smart was abducted last summer, many Americans -- and people around the world -- found themselves transfixed by the case. When she was recovered, those following the case learned that she had been taken as a "sister wife" by an apostate Mormon committed to the principle of polygamy. This is not the first time in recent years that polygamy has been in the news. In 2001, Mormon fundamentalist Tom Green, was sentenced to 5 years in prison on charges of bigamy and failure to support his family -- a family which includes 5 "wives" and 33 children. In 2002, he was sentenced to life in prison for charges stemming from his union with a woman who was 13-years-old when they wed. While polygamy was renounced by the Church of Latter Day Saints more than a hundred years ago, it was a doctrine vital to the faith in its early years, and it remains important to many believers who practice what they consider to be "authentic" Mormonism. Some estimates suggest that 30,000 Utah residents are engaged in "plural marriage." In her elegantly powerful new memoir, Predators, Prey, and Other Kinfolk, Dorothy Allred Solomon offers a thoughtful, intimate vision of life inside the world of plural marriage. Solomon was 28th of 48 children fathered by Rulon Allred, a fundamentalist leader and secret polygamist, and one of the figures profiled in Jon Krakauer's latest book, Under the Banner of Heaven, in which he explores a grisly murder prompted by religious mania." at a later point in the newsletter, it offers this on krakauer's new book: "Jon Krakauer, the author who so compellingly explored physical extremity in Into the Wild and Into Thin Air, turns his attention to spiritual extremism in this fascinating portrait of contemporary fundamentalism. Under the Banner of Heaven combines historical insights with a bone-chilling narrative of "divinely inspired" murder and unyielding faith. Read an excerpt from this riveting work of investigation, which was already causing a furor even before publication." note that in the description of krakauer's book, mormonism is not mentioned. of course, with all the hype that the book has received, i doubt there are many who would receive this newsletter and not know it has to do with fundamentalist mormonism. i also found the first blurb interesting in the distinctions it draws as to what kind of mormonism these various people practice. "apostate mormon." "mormon fundamentalist." and "'authentic' mormonism." and of course the almost-but-not-quite-right nod to the church's wishes to be known as the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints. just thought i'd send this on to all of you. amelia _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 31 Jul 2003 22:57:39 -0600 Richard Dutcher asked me to forward this to the list. D. Michael I recently finished Krakauer's book. The following is not a critique. It's just a partial response with random thoughts. And a fishing expedition to see if anyone else had similar thoughts. First of all, the book is very well-written. Compelling. The author knows how to put words together. I read the first few pages, which instantly hooked me, and I finished the book within 48 hours. Most books sit on my bedside table for weeks, begging to be finished. It was clear from the author's overview of early Mormon history that he did his research. Or (at least) Michael Quinn did his research, and Krakauer read Quinn. The book reminded me of Capote's IN COLD BLOOD. Both accounts horrified and saddened me. At the point in UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN where Krakauer describes the murders, I put the book aside for several hours and felt the need to pray, play with my kids, kiss my wife, admire the mountainside. I wanted to weep for the victims. So the writing was emotionally effective. I was duly horrified. Krakauer succeeds in making Mormon Fundamentalists look like homicidal, incestuous lunatics. He also makes mainstream Mormons look like closet lunatics, and he makes religious folk in general look like potential lunatics. But I guess that's one of the main questions the book grapples with: is religious faith a brand of insanity? Perhaps, as a person with religious faith, I am especially sensitive to the question. And if the answer is "yes," which is the answer Mr. Krakauer certainly suggests (without actually committing to) and which is the conclusion many readers will adopt after reading this book...as well-written and high-profile as it is, it really seems to me to be nothing more than the latest sensational anti-Mormon, anti-faith expose. Some problems (and, admittedly, I knew very little of the Lafferty murders before reading this book): 1. There was very little treatment of Allen Lafferty (the widower) after the murders. How did he deal with this? Is he still LDS? Does he have any opinion on his brothers' mental state? Does he struggle with guilt? 2. There was also very little treatment of Ron and Dan Lafferty (the murderers) before their introduction to fundamentalism. Krakauer briefly gives us the impression that they were warm, normal people (as if fundamentalism itself is the disease that causes them to turn into murderous psychos). I have a hard time believing that there wasn't evidence of their mental illnesses before their acceptance of fundamentalism. Maybe the author believes that their faith in mainstream Mormonism is sufficient evidence of mental imbalance. Surely, the trial documents had testimony of witnesses who would have testified of strange behavior and beliefs in earlier life. 3. Also, there was very little treatment of the Lafferty boys' mother. The author made her a fascinating character without attempting to explain her. To me, her behavior causes suspicion that perhaps all was not right in the Lafferty home when the boys were growing up. The early home life was left virtually unexplored. 4. There seemed to be no "control" family, no normal polygamists who weren't raping their children or killing people or having wacky "revelations." The few non-villainous polygamists are introduced after the author has already established polygamy as deranged. Krakauer appears to be dramatizing only the sensational episodes and thereby painting all Fundamentalists, and all Mormons, with a very broad brush. Surely there must be many (perhaps even a majority of) polygamist families who are living happy, peaceful, spiritually rich lives. I believe most readers will conclude after UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN that all polygamous men want to molest their 12-year-old daughters and slit the throats of anyone who interferes with their religious beliefs. Interestingly, the murdered woman, Brenda Lafferty (I hope that's the right name. I don't have the book in front of me) is portrayed as courageous, strong, and sane. And yet she was a Mormon. The rest of the book would lead one to believe that she was practically the only Mormon with these qualities. But then again, she was the victim in the story. And, in modern American journalism, it seems that we all fall into three categories: heroes, villains, and victims. 5. The author's approach to LDS history seemed to be to pull out all the sensational episodes: polygamy, Mountain Meadows, blood atonement, post-manifesto polygamy, Samuel Smith's "suspicious death," et cetera, et cetera. If it were less well-written and authored by a less-respected author, we could easily dismiss it as the National Inquirer's Encyclopedic History of Mormonism. The book rings an alarm and points a finger at potentially dangerous people in our society. It points an unfriendly finger at Mormon fundamentalists and, less directly but most certainly, at the mainstream Mormons standing close by. I'm concerned that UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN will further fuel an anti-religous sentiment in our culture. True, some of our politicians and even our president present themselves as men with religious faith, yet I detect a change in the wind. Perhaps it's because I'm in the entertainment industry where anti-religious bigotry is blatantly apparent. Soon, religious people may become the only group of people in America who, in our evolving sense of political correctness, will be deserving of prejudice, public mocking, and persecution. Perhaps I'm taking it too seriously. It's just a book, after all. But, then again, so was MEIN KAMPF. I could talk more (and would like to), but I have to get back to work. I find that the more I think about this book, the less I respect it. (Side note: I had the same experience with the Academy Award-winning film, "American Beauty." Immediately after seeing the film, I liked it. Then it started to unravel in my mind. Three days later, I hated it.) In many ways, Krakauer's book had an unexpected effect on me (and surely not the author's intended effect). I felt compassion for the fundamentalists. They are surely the victims of misrepresentation here. Krakauer's fundamentalist villains are so villainous. The polygamists lifestyles and belief systems themselves are revealed as so reprehensible. I simply cannot believe it. These people are being attacked. And I don't like to see anyone being attacked. Granted, they are an easy target. They are unpopular and few in number. Who is going to stand up and defend the polygamists? One final thought: is a writer from mainstream American culture really someone who should be casting stones at Mormon culture? The author writes from within a society that is up to its eyeballs in incest, child porn, teen pregnancy and abortion, divorce, serial murderers...need I go on? The pot is calling the kettle black (as my grandma used to say). Perhaps the author should turn his attention to his own hometown. Boulder isn't all that far from Littleton, come to think of it. What he finds in his own backyard might horrify him more than anything he found in Colorado City. Richard Dutcher -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: RE: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 06 Aug 2003 13:59:17 -0500 I'll have to look this up and get back to you. It came up when I was doing research on the Lafferty's. They used it to justify the callous way they treated their wives. Thom --- Original Message --- >Um, I must have missed that speech. Which brother was it that referred >to his wife or wives as chattel? I can't say as I've ever heard >anything of the kind. > >Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormonism, Fundamentalism, and Polygamy at Borders Date: 06 Aug 2003 14:06:53 -0500 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (spelled that way in the blurb below) is an actual organization, the remnant of the church that Jesse Strang started after Joseph's death. They claim to have several hundred members. Thom --- Original Message --- >i also found the first blurb interesting in the >distinctions it draws as to what kind of mormonism these various people >practice. "apostate mormon." "mormon fundamentalist." and "'authentic' >mormonism." and of course the almost-but-not-quite- right nod to the >church's wishes to be known as the church of jesus christ of latter-day >saints. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Curtis" Subject: [AML] Definitions of GLBT etc. Date: 06 Aug 2003 11:15:26 -0700 To help with an understanding of intersex, here is an excerpt from one of the sections of www.isna.org, to which I referred in an earlier post: "Simply put, intersexuality is a set of medical conditions that features 'congenital anomaly of the reproductive and sexual system.' That is, a person with an intersex condition is born with sex chromosomes, external genitalia, or an internal reproductive system that is not considered 'standard' for either male or female." Now, this could be the stuff of some well-researched and thoughtful, thought-provoking literature, especially given the information available at the above-referenced online resource. This is not something extremely rare. There are more intersex individuals than there are individuals with cystic fibrosis. So far as I have been able to determine, the Church does not have a stance on intersexuality. Does anyone have further information? One of the purposes of literature is to help people think beyond their normal frames of reference. Figuring out intersex could definitely help one to accomplish this. Walt Curtis ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:05 AM > (Don't ask me what "AQDK" stand for. I'm still trying to figure out what > an "intersex" is. Someone genetically predisposed to enjoy online sex?) -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Deseret News: Hope Misfired at BYU in '87 Date: 06 Aug 2003 14:41:08 -0500 I was present as well. Bob Hope wasn't embarrased in the slightest. I was, however that, first of all, anyone would deign to tell Bob what jokes he couldn't tell, and second, that we as a people were so prudish that we couldn't appreciate his humor for what it was. What we experienced was not some solidarity toward heightened community standards but a group- think reaction to a wonderful comedian. I would be willing to bet that the majority of the people in that crowd wouldn't think twice about laughing at Bob in the privacy of their own homes (remember, this was a period of time in Utah when Steven King was the best- selling author at Deseret Book and "Dallas" was a very popular show among Relief Society sisters who wouldn't have been caught dead attending an R-rated movie.) But, mob mentality ruled the day and everybody (almost everybody, that is) became pure and wholesome and above reproach at the same time. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eugene Woodbury" Subject: [AML] Definitions of Mormonism (was: Review of Krakauer) Date: 06 Aug 2003 14:19:57 -0600 > Mormon is still singular and exclusively used to refer > to the LDS church. People don't even call the RLDS > church Mormon. I confess that I'm confused with what > you mean by "currently promoted usage of 'Mormon'", > though. I hadn't been aware of anyone promoting a > new definition or usage for the term. Yes, the church does officially "discourage" the use of "Mormon" as an adjective when followed by "church" to refer to itself. Although "Mormon" may be used as a noun to refer to members of the church, and also in conjunction with "Tabernacle Choir," "Trail," etc. They have made this usage quite explicit, though it is confusing enough that only the Utah media seems to follow it with any kind of discipline. The church's style guide can be found here: http://www.lds.org/newsroom/page/0,15606,4043-1---15-168,00.html They have at least convinced the Associated Press, whose stylebook reads (quoting from the above site): "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other . . . churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death." But there is a huge difference between what we want and what we get, and as the grammar scolds have long learned (if they have learned; they're a never-say-die bunch), language usage can't be dictated, proscribed or prescribed (except by your English teacher). It is at best leveraged. Shame and/or approbation works well, too, but that requires significant social momentum to be on your side. At any rate, obviously "Mormon" is not used "exclusively" to refer to the LDS church, else we would not be having this discussion, and nobody would know what Krakauer was talking about. Viewed in terms of its relative size, "Mormonism" has riven itself into quite a number of sects, many extinct, some extant. We do our best to pretend they don't exist, but we all know what Krakauer is talking about (does anybody not know what a "Mormon Fundamentalist" is?), so we are able to make that distinction, even if others are not. Even Krakauer makes the distinction when probed on the subject, so he gets it too. As do those clever (or nasty, depending) parodists who concocted the acronym CFKAM: The Church Formerly Known As Mormon. Here is another real-life example of this problem with appellations, and who has the "right" to demand what they or others shall be called by association. Note the second paragraph from this article by Frank Rich (http://www.iht.com/articles/104828.html): >> Asked by Bill O'Reilly in January if his movie might upset ''any Jewish people,'' Gibson responded: "It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth. Anybody who transgresses has to look at their own part or look at their own culpability." Fears about what this ''truth'' will be have been fanned by the knowledge that Gibson bankrolls a traditionalist Catholic church unaffiliated with the Los Angeles Roman Catholic Archdiocese. Traditionalist Catholicism is the name given to a small splinter movement that rejects the Second Vatican Council -- which, among other reforms, cleared the Jews of deicide. << So is Gibson "Catholic" then? Does he have the "right" to call himself Catholic? Does it "confuse" the general public for Gibson--and the press in general--to refer to him as "Catholic"? If you reject Vatican II are you still a "Catholic"? Do the rest of us care? Should we? There's a rule of thumb that says that that which we get the most dogmatic about is that about which we are the most uncertain. What we are uncertain about is how we should refer to ourselves (I note that the church also proscribes "LDS Church" as an acceptable usage), or how to clearly discriminate between ourselves and our doctrine and our canon and our history and those of our heretical brethren, who lay claim to the same doctrine, canon and history (and adjectives), at least up to 100 years ago. The Catholic church, it would seem (I could be wrong), doesn't really care what Gibson calls himself. Is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing? Or do we only care when it starts to look bad for us? [Eugene Woodbury] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 25 July 03 Date: 07 Aug 2003 00:06:16 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of July 25, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 21 2 Fast 2 Furious 368,715 380 52 Paul Walker (lead actor) 124,813,080 38 Wrong Turn 92,993 95 59 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 15,044,311 64 Cremaster Cycle 13,437 4 94 Mathew Barney 388,951 (writer/producer/director/actor) 68 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 12,447 4 1172 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,419,738 72 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 6,897 9 899 Scott Swofford (producer) 15,022,703 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 78 China: The Panda Adventure 5,657 4 731 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,288,057 103 Galapagos 840 2 1368 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 14,044,855 FINAL DESTINATION 2 OUT ON VIDEO/DVD - "Final Destination 2," which features Latte-day Saint actress A.J. Cook in the second-billed role, has been released on video/DVD by New Line Cinema. While it was in theaters, the film grossed $46,752,141 at the box office, making it Cook's biggest grossing movie so far. Yes, we know. As Jay Leno so aptly pointed out, how can there be a Final Destination 2? Doesn't that mean the first one was final? Cook recently began co-starring as "Lindsay" on the TV series "Tru Calling," which premieres on FOX in 2003. The cast of "Tru Calling" is headed up by another Mormon actress, Eliza Dushku. OFFICIAL WORK AND THE STORY RELEASE DATE - "The Work and the Story," directed by Nathan Smith Jones, will officially be released on August 29th in Salt Lake City, Provo and possibly Logan, Utah. It is being distributed by Off-Hollywood Distribution. Coincidentally, this is the same date that "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" is being released. "The Work and the Story" stars Kirby Heyborne, Richard Dutcher, Richard Moll - "Bull" from "Nightcourt", Jennifer Hoskins, Eric Artell and Nathan Smith Jones. Jones is NOT playing himself in this movie! SEEN AT THE DAYS OF '47 PARADE - Nathan Smith Jones and Dan Merkley were recently seen at the Days of '47 parade near the corner of 4th South and State Street. They were marching around trying to recruit people to help them find Richard Dutcher, who they claimed is missing, and in the process save Mormon Cinema. While we think these efforts are admirable, it did not seem that many of the parade watchers were eager to give up their prime parade-watching locations to help with the search. Regardless, our understanding is that those who are interested in helping can visit http://www.theworkandthestory.com/ or you can attend one of several meetings which are scheduled (ironically) at movie theaters in Salt Lake, Provo and possibly Logan beginning August 29th. RM GROSS: The box office gross for HaleStorm entertainment's movie "The R.M." is expected to climb as summer ends and the film moves into California and other parts of Arizona. THE LATEST FROM HALESTORM ENTERTAINMENT [mailing from HaleStorm] R.M. NOW PLAYING IN MESA! The R.M. Returns to Mesa, AZ at the Super Saver Superstition Springs! Showtimes: 1:30 4:10 7:00 9:20 The R.M. is also playing at these great theaters! PROVO, UT: Cinemark Movies 8: 11:30 2:10 4:40 7:10 9:40 Fri/Sat 12:00 a.m. SALT LAKE CITY, UT: Showcase 6: 1:00 3:10 5:15 7:45 10:15 SANDY, UT: Cinemark Sandy Movies 9: 11:45 2:10 4:40 7:05 9:30 R.M. COMING SOON TO CALIFORNIA! Keep checking our theater listings page for current updates. You can also request a theater by going to http://www.rmthemovie.com/request.php THE HOME TEACHERS ON KSL! Filming for The Home Teachers is underway, and Carole Mikita of KSL-TV in Salt Lake City came and visited us on the set! CHRISTMAS IN JULY FOR ONE MORE WEEK! We're still celebrating Christmas in July with A Very Singles Christmas, a new collection of your favorite LDS Christmas songs spiced with Singles Ward style! MARK POTTER, director of the low-budget Latter-day Saint-themed film "Suddenly Unexpected," has written a new essay titled "Opening an LDS Cinema Film," available at: http://www.ldsfilm.com/opinion/PotterOpening.html NYBO FEATURE NOW IN POST - Filmmaker Craig Nybo (based in Utah County) has completed principle photography on the feature-length horror movie he directed. The movie is now in post-production. Although filmed under the title "Haunted," Nybo says the movie will probably be called "Gabriella Sleeps." Nybo the director of such short films as "Practical Encounter Avoidance" (2001), "Team Rescue" (2001), "Malad for the Millenium" (1999), "Gravedigger" (1997) and "We Are The Rock (1995"). "Gabriella Sleeps" is his first feature film as director. MORMON ACTOR PAPILIO STARS IN NEW IMAX FILM - Papilio memnon, whose common name is the "Great Mormon butterfly", is the star of the new 3-D Imax film "Bugs." See articles: http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jul/07242003/thursday/78090.asp and http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Jul/07242003/utah/78123.asp -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Query on Eagle City Video/Film Date: 07 Aug 2003 00:48:59 -0500 Is anybody familiar with what video this might be? ------ I went to high school in Smithfield Utah, back in the 70's. There was a movie that was so corny that even the seminary teachers thought it was too earnest, and they would show it once a year for a seminary party. I thought that it was called Eagle City, but I've searched for it with google to no avail. I don't know if it was made by the church, but I always thought it was. It was an anti-drinking film, in which the good naive kid goes off with the bad kid to Eagle City to buy some beer. Ever hear of it? ------ Preston Hunter -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: thelairdjim Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 07 Aug 2003 16:35:39 -0700 One of the reasons we can blandly refer to Islam as if there were only one is because all versions can pray at the same mosques. Though most Mosques in the States are Sunni (and Wahhabi Sunni) a Shiite who wandered in wouldn't be ejected. The prayers are the same, and since there's no Caliphs of either persuasion anymore it really doesn't matter as much whether they're Twelve Imam or Seven Imam or Ismaili etc. Despite the conflict and even war between Sunni and Shia they are both considered part of the 'Ummah. A closer approximation would be the Sikhs compared to Islam. The Gurus blended Islam with other beliefs and so are a separate entity even though they believe in the Quran, which is the simplest definition of a Muslim. It's my opinion that the the blurring of lines between apostates, excommunicates, "fundamentalists," and actual members of the Church is entirely intentional. Anyone that believes in a religion is like to be labeled "fundamentalist," but there are no Mormon fundamentalists that I know of. If somebody decided that the Prophet and the Twelve don't know what they're talking about and wants to "get back to the basics," then that is what is known as an apostate or heretic. They ought to know the difference but they ignore the truth because they want to paint any person of faith as odd, and those who actually try to practice their beliefs as lunatics. Since it doesn't work for the membership at large they use the apostate fringe to impugn the rest. I was quite surprised during the Lewinsky embroglio tht they didn't decide to call Starr a Mormon, since his church is a splinter off of ours as well. But then again it's a legal church and has been for more than a century. I suppose it's only the illegal sects that get to be honorary Mormons since they can't form their own churches dedicated to breaking the law. Jim Wilson aka the Laird Jim -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] NIELSON, _The Dispossessed_ Date: 07 Aug 2003 18:42:51 -0600 This book for sale at Scholars Bookshelf. .. . THE DISPOSSESSED; Cultural Genocide of the Mixed-Blood Utes: An Advocate's Chronicle Parker M. Nielson A Utah attorney who represented this group in a suit against the U.S. government retells the story of the mixed-bloods, deprived of the native lands by the Mormons and confined to a reservation and ultimately deprived of their assets, land, and way of life through broken promises by the government. 1998: 338 pages. (Oklahoma) 51XF List Price: $39.95 Sale Price: $3.95 Savings: $36.00 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (Des News) Huck, Tom, Jim and--Lee Nelson? Date: 08 Aug 2003 11:17:07 -0600 Huck, Tom, Jim and - Lee Nelson? By Carma Wadley Deseret Morning News SPRINGVILLE - Lee Nelson doesn't pretend to look like, think like, sound like or be like Mark Twain. But he shares at least one thing with the great American author: He knows a good story when he sees one. And that's how the Springville author came to share writing credits with Twain on a sequel to "Huckleberry Finn." Twain began the story in 1885 - 25 years before his death - but for some reason or other never finished it. Nelson read the story while he was waiting in the barbershop on the Brigham Young University campus more than 30 years ago. "In Twain's day, things weren't copyrighted until they were published," he explains. So in order to protect the work and get a copyright, the Mark Twain Foundation got Life magazine to publish the story in its Dec. 20, 1968, issue. "I was enthralled with the story, hanging on every word," says Nelson. Called "Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer Among the Indians," it starts off with Huck, Tom and Jim heading West for adventures - because Tom had read about Indians and had a lot of romantic notions about them. The three join up with a family on the Platte River. A group of Sioux befriends the family, then kills the parents and older boys and kidnaps the two girls and Jim. Huck and Tom join forces with a mountain man to rescue the girls. Twain's story suddenly ends as they approach the Indians' camp and prepare for a daring rescue. Over the years there has been a lot of speculation about why Twain didn't finish the story. Some think he was uncomfortable with the sexual theme he had introduced, with the older girl being ravished by her captors. Others think Twain may have been weary of the criticism "Huck Finn" had received from Puritan-minded librarians and school teachers. Nelson doesn't buy the theory that Twain had written himself into a corner and didn't know how to get out. "He could have written himself out of anything. But it was about the time he moved to Connecticut. He was hobnobbing with the upper crust of society, and I think he just lost interest in backwoods boys and the West." Whatever the reasons were, the manuscript lay unfinished until Nelson was reminded of it by a PBS special a couple of years ago. "And it hit me that I had studied and written about the West. I was about as qualified as anyone to finish the story." Nelson contacted the Mark Twain Foundation and the University of California Press, and they agreed to let him have a crack at it. They worked out a deal where the foundation got royalties for the part Twain wrote, and Nelson got royalties for the part he wrote, which turned out to be a 20/80 split. "Mark Twain wrote the first 62 pages, and I wrote the last 200 pages." He didn't feel at liberty to edit any of those first pages, and so some of the language and the words used are not those used comfortably in today's world. "I tried to tone them down in my part." But the issues of racism and redemption that Twain introduced are still universal concerns, says Nelson. Nelson picks up where Twain left off, following lovesick Huck across the continent and involving the boys in adventures, not only with hostile Indians but also with renegade trappers, Mormon emigrants, Western soldiers and gunfighters. He's pretty sure it's not the way Twain would have done it. "People ask me if I tried to communicate with him, if he appeared to me in dreams. And the answer is no. But I did go through his part very carefully, studying the idioms and slang words and unconventional sentence structure." He did continue the themes Twain introduced, including the love story, the differences between book learning and real life and the possibilities of second chances. "I set the story in 1857. Twain didn't indicate a date, but he visited California in the early 1850s, and he has Jim still worrying about slavery, so the Civil War hasn't happened yet. I thought he was looking at the mid-to-late 1850s." In 1857, there was a lot going on, says Nelson, with Johnston's Army and the Mormon handcart pioneers and activity in California. "There may be more Mormon material than he would have used. But he did like to have fun at the expense of the (LDS) Church, and he was also critical of Congress passing legislation against the church." Since its publication this spring, the book has done very well, says Nelson. It got a great reception at the national Book Expo in Los Angeles. "Some people think I'm trying to cash in on Twain's audience," he says. "But he never earned a penny on this story until now. And what's been happening is that my audience is being drawn to him." Over the past 25 years, Nelson has written more than 30 books, mostly about Utah and Western history. His books, in particular "The Storm Testament" volumes, have been serialized in more than 100 newspapers around the country. He has written biographies, business books and is currently researching the life and times of Ghengis Khan. "I look at this work as a journey into the American West through the eyes of Mississippi River rat Huck Finn, begun by Huck's creator, Mark Twain, and finished by one of his ardent fans. No more, no less." Nelson thinks Twain would be quite flabbergasted to know that all these years later not only is Huck still popular, "but 960 different editions of Twain's books are currently for sale. He loved the craft of writing, he liked to have fun with words, but I don't think he knew how great he was." Maybe someday, Nelson speculates, "we'll meet up and compare notes and tease each other about it all." -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sam Brown Subject: [AML] YOUNG, _Heresies of Nature_ Date: 08 Aug 2003 00:38:20 -0400 Hello, This isn't an actual review, just a response to the novel, which I read this evening while unwinding after too much work, waiting for my wife and daughter to come back from their vacation. I bought the book based on some e-mail or something in _Irreantum_, I think, part of acquainting myself with the landscape of Mormon fiction written for Mormons. I don't want to spoil the plot because I think plot enriches this story significantly. It may be that there were too many parallels to my own life and that primed the emotional pumps, but I feel, having read both, that _Heresies_ is a far profounder, more majestic, more moving affirmation of the Mormon eternal family than the "Proclamation" to that effect adorning the walls of in-laws and neighbors. I called my wife to tell her about it and started to cry (I cry about once a decade, so I'm safe until 2010 or thereabouts), still reeling from the book's resonance with my own love and fear and inadequacy. It brought to the fore the physical ache of my love for my wife and daughter, the overwhelming force of commitment and tenderness and responsibility. The book is similar to "The Dive From Classen's Pier" but much more powerful. It's as stunning as "Metamorphosis" but in a visceral/familiar rather than Kafka's intellectual/grotesque way. Polished, and with removal of the specifically Mormon content, this book could be a contender on a national market as far as I'm concerned. Happy reading. I'm giving it to all my relatives next time gifts are exchanged. -- Yours, Samuel Brown, MD Massachusetts General Hospital sam@vecna.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Deseret News: Hope Misfired at BYU in '87 Date: 08 Aug 2003 18:36:29 -0600 At 02:41 PM 8/6/03 -0500, you wrote: >I would be >willing to bet that the majority of the people in that >crowd wouldn't think twice about laughing at Bob in >the privacy of their own homes (remember, this was a >period of time in Utah when Steven King was the best- >selling author at Deseret Book and "Dallas" was a very >popular show among Relief Society sisters who wouldn't >have been caught dead attending an R-rated movie.) >But, mob mentality ruled the day and everybody (almost >everybody, that is) became pure and wholesome and >above reproach at the same time. You're speculating, Thom. I don't think dirty jokes are funny, and I have never liked Stephen King or Dallas. That's true of many people. I think it's unfair of you to assume that anyone who doesn't guffaw at crude humor is being self-righteous. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cathy Wilson Subject: [AML] Re: Wives as Chattel Date: 08 Aug 2003 17:16:35 -0600 referred >to his wife or wives as chattel? I don't know if anybody actually referred to the wives as chattel, but there was a strong belief that having wives would take you to heaven, so you needed more than one to make that happen. Indeed, although it's been a LONG time since I've looked in the Journal of Discourses, I remember reading there that you couldn't make it to the highest level of the celestial kingdom without more than one: period. There is also a belief, perhaps a folk belief but fairly strong in the conservative way of thinking, that the wife's/wives' righteousness would make up for the man's insufficiencies and drag him along into the higher realms :). In these ideas, it's more about having than about relationship, IMHO. Cathy Wilson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Definitions of Mormonism Date: 08 Aug 2003 20:19:55 -0600 ---Original Message From: Eugene Woodbury > > Mormon is still singular and exclusively used to refer > > to the LDS church. People don't even call the RLDS > > church Mormon. I confess that I'm confused with what > > you mean by "currently promoted usage of 'Mormon'", > > though. I hadn't been aware of anyone promoting a > > new definition or usage for the term. >=20 > Yes, the church does officially "discourage" the use of=20 > "Mormon" as an adjective when followed by "church" to refer=20 > to itself. Although "Mormon" may be used as a noun to refer=20 > to members of the church, and also in conjunction with=20 > "Tabernacle Choir," "Trail," etc. They have made this usage=20 > quite explicit, though it is confusing enough that only the=20 > Utah media seems to follow it with any kind of discipline. Ah. You are referring to the church guidelines recently released as the currently promoted usage of "Mormon". I understand, now. From your original post, it was hard to figure who you considered the promoter and what the promotion was. I hadn't considered the Church as a "promoter" of the term as they are actively, um, demoting (?) it. As you say, it gets confusing and even local media seems to have difficulty.=20 > They have at least convinced the Associated Press, whose=20 > stylebook reads (quoting from the above site): "The term=20 > Mormon is not properly applied to the other . . . churches=20 > that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death." >=20 > But there is a huge difference between what we want and what=20 > we get, and as the grammar scolds have long learned (if they=20 > have learned; they're a never-say-die bunch), language usage=20 > can't be dictated, proscribed or prescribed (except by your=20 > English teacher). It is at best leveraged. Shame and/or=20 > approbation works well, too, but that requires significant=20 > social momentum to be on your side. Now you've lost me again. I thought I *was* talking about common usage. I don't much care for style-guides as they are more an accepted norm within their applicable organizations than anything useful for every-day communication. I have never heard the bald term "Mormon" apply to anything other than the LDS church. Which is precisely why adding modifiers to it to describe other churches implies a relationship with the LDS church and why "Fundamentalist Mormon" is misleading and an objectionable term. It implies that they are derived from official LDS church doctrine and simply applying a narrower definition of it. Which is not true--they are counter to LDS church doctrine in several very important and explicit ways. I would suggest calling them "Fundamentalist Polygamists", maybe. Or simply "Religious Nutcases"... > At any rate, obviously "Mormon" is not used "exclusively" to=20 > refer to the LDS church, else we would not be having this=20 > discussion, and nobody would know what Krakauer was talking=20 > about. Viewed in terms of its relative size, "Mormonism" has=20 > riven itself into quite a number of sects, many extinct, some=20 > extant. We do our best to pretend they don't exist, but we=20 > all know what Krakauer is talking about (does anybody not=20 > know what a "Mormon Fundamentalist" is?), so we are able to=20 > make that distinction, even if others are not. Even Krakauer=20 > makes the distinction when probed on the subject, so he gets it too. Again, Mormon is used exclusively to refer to the LDS church. Have you ever heard of any other church referred to as simply Mormon, no modifiers? I haven't. Frankly, I can't think of any usage of Mormon outside of "Fundamentalist". Unlike Islam, Christian, or Jewish that can be applied broadly without modifier to many different churches or congregations, "Mormon" without modifiers is only ever applied to the LDS church. To get back to your original point that we cannot disavow Fundamentalist Mormons as part of our tradition, I believe that we can and should. You bring up that Islam includes Sunni and Shiite as a distinction with a common heritage. I disagree with this comparison. The comparison would more accurately be if we referred to Sunni and Fundamentalist Sunni. The Sunni's could and should object to such a modifier and would be perfectly reasonable in expecting others to find some different, more accurate and descriptive label. In short, Christian, Islam and Jewish all describe traditions that contain a number of different branches. Mormon is not a comparable term and should not be treated as such. Mormon refers to a single church and not a tradition or group of beliefs. And I'll reiterate that I am not here referring to Church guidelines, Associated Press style guides or anyone's desire for the term. I'm speaking to the application of the term as I understand it and as I've heard it used. If we want to change the definition to be a tradition, that'd be fine, but we'd have a tough row to hoe because for most people, the term "Mormon" is a single, distinguishable church. Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Definitions of Mormonism Date: 08 Aug 2003 21:27:18 -0600 Eugene Woodbury wrote: > The Catholic church, it would seem (I could be wrong), doesn't really care what > Gibson calls himself. Is there a statute of limitations on this sort of thing? > Or do we only care when it starts to look bad for us? I don't know either, but I suspect the Catholic church would prefer that unaffiliated organizations not refer to themselves as Catholic with pretty much the same level of concern that the LDS church does--a statement of self-definition and a request that the media respect our right to define our right to label ourselves as we choose (sounds vaguely like parts of the GLBT discussion). Nary a lawsuit in sight over the naming issue, as far as I can see. But there's a substantial difference between the official pronouncements of a church (LDS, Catholic, or otherwise) and the expressed opinions of the individual members of that church. Just as I've heard Mormons complain about people calling themselves Mormon when their opinions differ from some arbitrary standard, I've heard Catholics and Lutherns and Hindus express almost identical frustrations in almost identical language. One could almost create a standard, fill-in-the-blank organizational complaint: "I hate it when people claim to be a when they obviously don't pay attention to the of the . People who act/speak that way are not *true* 's." ( can include doctrines, creeds, platforms, tenets, bylaws, constitution...whatever.) Within the past two weeks I've heard this complaint from Mormons, Atheists, Catholics, Jews, Evangelicals, Democrats, Republicans, Americans, Germans, Iraqis, Men, Women, Gays, Lesbians, Raider fans, Jazz (basketball) fans, Cubs fans, and residents of the City of Santaquin. Today on the radio I heard this complaint regarding people who listen to the rock band Aerosmith who didn't think "Sweet Emotion" was the rocking-est Aerosmith song ever--along with a spit-flying, screaming argument about it between two callers on the show. Mormons like to beat each other up about how uptight they are, and that's fine. But we dare not believe we're the only ones who engage in the practice--carping about who is/isn't or who should/shouldn't be part of any particular group is one of the most common activities in the world. I'm far more concerned about apathy than excessive social exclusivity at this point. It's human nature, not a particular flaw of Mormons. We should give ourselves neither special dispensation nor special condemnation for it, IMO. Scott Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 09 Aug 2003 00:09:01 -0600 I read _Under the Banner of Heaven_ the weekend it came out, and I was excited that I'd be able to the first person on the list to review it. A few weeks later, my eagerness is still buried under my procrastination, and several others have beaten me to the punch. Richard Dutcher's non-review resonated with me (your fishing expedition was successful, Richard), so I'll use that as a springboard for my own informal review. Richard Dutcher wrote: | First of all, the book is very well-written. Compelling. The author | knows how to put words together. I read the first few pages, which | instantly hooked me, and I finished the book within 48 hours. I had the same experience. My shelves are full of half-read books, but I couldn't put this one down -- I bought it on a Saturday afternoon and finished it by Monday. Whatever else can be said about the novel (and I have some strong criticisms of the book), Krakauer deserves credit for being a great storyteller. | It was clear from the author's overview of early Mormon history that he | did his research. Or (at least) Michael Quinn did his research, and | Krakauer read Quinn. The Church has taken issue with Krakauer's scholarship (or lack thereof), issuing a short press release by Mike Otterson, director of Media Relations, as well as a longer rebuttal by Richard E. Turley, Jr., managing director of the Family and Church History Department. I read Turley's statement before I picked up the book, and I assumed that he was being overly defensive (as we in the Church are wont to do with each new Mormon-themed book), but in rereading it after I finished the book, I found myself wishing that Krakauer had taken the time to interview someone -- anyone -- from Church headquarters. The mistakes Krakauer makes -- from simple, copyediting mistakes (refering to Mark E. Petersen as a former president of the Church) to more egregious ones (ignoring evidence about Josiah Stowell, Orrin Porter Rockwell, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre) -- could have been greatly reduced with a little effort. The fact that Krakauer never made the effort seems to reveal the author's willingness to disregard journalistic standards when crafting a good read hangs in the balance. [Note: the Church's response can be found here: http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showrelease/0,15503,3881-1-17190,00.html ] | So the writing was emotionally effective. I was duly horrified. Krakauer | succeeds in making Mormon Fundamentalists look like homicidal, | incestuous lunatics. He also makes mainstream Mormons look like closet | lunatics, and he makes religious folk in general look like potential | lunatics. But I guess that's one of the main questions the book grapples | with: is religious faith a brand of insanity? In the "Author's Remarks" at the end of the book, Krakauer admits that "I don't know if God even exists," and his lack of belief permeates book. Early on, he writes that "faith is the antithesis of reason," and you get the feeling, as Richard Dutcher notes above, that Krakauer has a personal heirarchy of insanity: the lowest level being the standard Christian (deluded but harmless), followed by the mainstream Latter-day Saint (fanatics living in your cul-de-sac, just waiting for the right time to do something drastic), with the Mormon Fundamentalist (already did something drastic) at the top. And while the book makes a few token attempts to distinguish between average Latter-day Saints and the more extreme Fundamentalists, you get the feeling that Krakauer believes mainstream Mormons are all part of some Fundamentalist sleeper cell, having integrated ourselves so deeply into American society as to go almost unnoticed, but secretly awaiting the time when our leaders will summon us to take multiple wives and carry out blood atonement against anyone who has ever wronged our people. | as well-written and | high-profile as it is, it really seems to me to be nothing more than the | latest sensational anti-Mormon, anti-faith expose. I found myself mentally rushing to Krakauer's defense before I read the book, wanting it to be a fair and balanced look at the Church by an outsider. With each chapter, though, I liked the book less. And not just because it became more anti-Mormon as it progressed (though that certainly affected my opinion). The book seems to lose its focus. Krakauer is at his best when he's writing about the Lafferty brothers. There's no denying that it's a compelling (albeit horrific) tale. Richard Dutcher points out some holes in the Lafferty story, and I think Krakauer would have been wise to abandon a few unrelated chapters and fill the space with a more thorough look at the aftermath of the murders and the current state of the other family members (though it's likely they declined to be interviewed for the book). My biggest pet peeve came about two-thirds of the way through, when Krakauer takes a sharp detour and spends three chapters (eighteen through twenty) on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the killing of two members of Major John Wesley Powell's expedition. Numerous times in the book, Krakauer links polygamy and violence, trying to show that they go hand in hand. But these three chapters have little or nothing to do with polygamy -- just violence. The incidents in question have been written about numerous times (can anyone count how many Mountain Meadows books have been released in the last twenty years?), and Krakauer does them a disservice by glossing over the facts in an attempt to somehow link them to present-day fundamentalism and, in turn, the LDS Church. In the "Author's Remarks," Krakauer writes that he originally set out to write a book entitled _History and Belief_, which was "going to focus on the uneasy, highly charged relationship between the LDS Church and its past." I suspect that the chapters I mentioned above were written long before the rest of the book and wedged into the new narrative so Krakauer wouldn't have to abandon them. Even if I'm wrong about their origin, that's how the chapters felt to me -- out of place and unnecessarily harsh. For those who h aven't read the book, Krakauer intersperses chapters about the Lafferty murders with chapters about various polygamist groups, the mainstream Church, and early Church history. While some of the tangential chapters fit into the Lafferty narrative quite nicely, as the book wore on, I found myself hoping at the end of each chapter that the next would go back to the Lafferty story line. Each time I'd catch myself thinking this, it seemed I had to wade through an extra chapter or two before Krakauer would grant my wish. | 1. There was very little treatment of Allen Lafferty (the widower) after | the murders. How did he deal with this? Is he still LDS? Does he have | any opinion on his brothers' mental state? Does he struggle with guilt? Good point. In fact, the Lafferty family is painted as a very large clan, but we never get to hear anyone's story but Dan's. Again, this may not be due to Krakauer's lack of effort. I suppose if I were in that position, I would refuse to be interviewed, too. | 3. Also, there was very little treatment of the Lafferty boys' mother. | The author made her a fascinating character without attempting to | explain her. To me, her behavior causes suspicion that perhaps all was | not right in the Lafferty home when the boys were growing up. When Krakauer reports that the mother sat and calmly listened to her sons plot the murder of her daughter-in-law and granddaughter, and then failed to report it to the police, I was blown away. This was NOT your typical Mormon family. | Interestingly, the murdered woman, Brenda Lafferty (I hope that's the | right name. I don't have the book in front of me) is portrayed as | courageous, strong, and sane. And yet she was a Mormon. The rest of the | book would lead one to believe that she was practically the only Mormon | with these qualities. But then again, she was the victim in the story. | And, in modern American journalism, it seems that we all fall into three | categories: heroes, villains, and victims. I think Brenda played a dual role: obviously the victim, but I think she's made out to be one of the book's strongest heroes, too. Again, though, it's a back-handed compliment by Krakauer. Brenda is the hero because she was a strong enough woman to encourage her sister-in-law to get a divorce. Krakauer writes it as if everyone else involved in the situation was just a pawn of the partriarchal Church heirarchy, sitting on the sidelines as Ron Lafferty slowly went insane. But wait! There's one woman who knows better -- Brenda Lafferty. And what happens to her as a result of her independence? She's murdered by the villians, making her both hero and victim, or in this case, a martyr for the cause of feminist enlightenment. [Please don't take this paragraph as a statement of my beliefs about feminism and its merits. I'm just trying to show that even when Krakauer paints a strong, intelligent Mormon, he does so knowing that he can portray her as being killed, not just by two deranged men, but by Mormonism itself.] | Perhaps I'm taking it too seriously. It's just a book, after all. It's just a book that debuted at number four on the New York Times bestseller list and has remained in the top five for the last three weeks. It's a book that's being read, and I suspect it's not just being read by Mormons. But, long term, perhaps we don't really have to worry until Krakauer sells the films rights. ;-) | In many ways, Krakauer's book had an unexpected effect on me (and surely | not the author's intended effect). I felt compassion for the | fundamentalists. They are surely the victims of misrepresentation here. I can tell you exactly why I bought this book. My wife had put my name on the waiting list at the library to get this book, but I knew it was going to be a long wait. And then we were in Costco, and I saw a stack of them on the table. The deep-deep discount almost persuaded me, but I was willing to wait my turn on the library list (I was number ten). Then I opened the cover and saw the beautiful map printed on the end papers. The map is a detail of Southern Utah and the Arizona Strip (home to Colorado City and not much else). I guess some context would be helpful here -- we were in the Costco in St. George, a popular shopping stop (along with the infinitely more popular Wal-mart) for Fundamentalist families. There I was, holding the book in my hand, watching them do their weekly shopping, and curiosity overtook me. I couldn't wait for nine other people to read the book. I had to read it NOW. This is a long way of me getting back to Richard's statement about compassion for the Fundamentalists. Having moved to St. George last year, I now see polygamists on a regular basis. I've met the mayor of Colorado City a few times at community meetings, and if I didn't know which city he came from, I wouldn't suspect anything amiss about him at all. He's one of the kindest people I've met. And yet, knowing that he is the mayor of Colorado City makes me uneasy around him. I notice the same thing at Wal-mart. The men almost blend in, but people stare at the women and girls wearing long dresses with jeans underneath. I often wonder what it must be like to be stared at everywhere you go. I felt that way on my mission, but I took a certain pride in it. I wonder if the polygamists have that same sense of pride. | Granted, they are an easy target. They are unpopular and few in number. | Who is going to stand up and defend the polygamists? >From my experience, they're not looking for anyone to defend them. They just want to be left alone. I assume Krakauer's book has many of them worried that additional national attention will ultimately mean additional legal and political action against them. But they've been through that before (in the 1950s), and they managed to survive. It's a sticky issue for politicians, and places like Colorado City may simply be ignored. Which will suit the residents of Colorado City just fine. Quinn Warnick -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 09 Aug 2003 10:19:59 -0500 --- Original Message --- >decide to call Starr a Mormon, since his church is a splinter off of >ours as well. But then again it's a legal church and has been for more >than a century. I suppose it's only the illegal sects that get to be >honorary Mormons since they can't form their own churches dedicated to >breaking the law. The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints is not an illegal sect. It is an incorporated religion. So is the True and Living Church, another polygamous group. Was Starr a member of the Community of Christ (RLDS)? Their separation from us in the eyes of the press has a lot to do with their distancing efforts for several decades. Also, they are not as "weird" as the polygamous break-offs are. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Kroupa" Subject: [AML] Re: Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 09 Aug 2003 09:14:49 -0600 > > Richard Dutcher asked me to forward this to the list. > I recently finished Krakauer's book. The following is not a critique. > It's just a partial response with random thoughts. And a fishing > expedition to see if anyone else had similar thoughts. > > So the writing was emotionally effective. I was duly horrified. Krakauer > succeeds in making Mormon Fundamentalists look like homicidal, > incestuous lunatics. He also makes mainstream Mormons look like closet > lunatics, and he makes religious folk in general look like potential > lunatics. But I guess that's one of the main questions the book grapples > with: is religious faith a brand of insanity? Perhaps, as a person with > religious faith, I am especially sensitive to the question. Richard, Robert Wright addresses this question in the book in his intriguing _NY Times_ review (which can be found at http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2003/07/26/mormons/index_np.html If you haven't signed up with the NY Times, you have to complete a free registration to read the article.) He notes that Krakauer strongly implies that to be religious means to give up thinking for oneself and he wishes that Krakauer had addressed the "vibrancy of mainstream Mormonism" which he (Wright) doubts is "just the dark energy of residual authoritarianism." Wright states in the review: Krakauer writes that ''as a means of motivating people to be cruel or inhumane . . . there may be no more potent force than religion.'' But sheer instinctive self-righteousness may ultimately be a bigger part of the problem. It is a common denominator of crimes committed in the name of religion, nationalism, racism -- even, sometimes, nihilism. (Back to me) I think the weakness of Krakauer's book may be that he imputes to religion essentially what is the human weakness for self-justification no matter what the belief system. > In many ways, Krakauer's book had an unexpected effect on me (and surely > not the author's intended effect). I felt compassion for the > fundamentalists. They are surely the victims of misrepresentation here. > Krakauer's fundamentalist villains are so villainous. The polygamists > lifestyles and belief systems themselves are revealed as so > reprehensible. I simply cannot believe it. These people are being > attacked. And I don't like to see anyone being attacked. > > Granted, they are an easy target. They are unpopular and few in number. > Who is going to stand up and defend the polygamists? Well, not me. :) While I appreciate your compassion--it's what, among other things made _Brigham City_ such a moving, wonderful film--it's hard for me to work up much empathy for a system of belief that truly oppresses women and children. In the world view of fundamentalists, women simply are not equal to men. While I certainly don't believe all fundamentalists are monsters, and I know that many of them are good people who are trying sincerely to live the "right" way, it distresses me that what they consider the right way is so limiting to women, who often don't seem to have a real choice in how they live their lives. Susan Kroupa www.susankroupa.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cathy Wilson Subject: [AML] Episcopalean Revelation Date: 09 Aug 2003 13:45:41 -0600 An interesting conversation on _The O'Reilly Factor_, top news commentary program (not verbatim; from my memory): O'Reilly: I would assume that as a Christian church, the Episcopaleans rely on scripture. Priest in Interview: That's true. O'Reilly: Then confirming Robinson as Bishop would be against your religion, since being gay is anti-scripture. Priest: Well, we don't rely on scripture as the last word. Above that is the Holy Spirit in community. O'Reilly: You're telling me that the Holy Spirit told you to confirm a gay bishop? Priest: Yes, that's what we're saying. O'Reilly: Well! I have a very hard time accepting that! Interesting that another religion is saying that ongoing revelation can supersede the written word :). Cathy Wilson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Linda Kimball" Subject: [AML] Cedar Fort Query Date: 09 Aug 2003 12:45:20 -0500 Has anyone on the list had dealings with Cedar Fort/Bonneville Books? = Please email me privately at LHKimball@pobox.com. Thanks! Linda -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gtaggart" Subject: RE: [AML] Query on Eagle City Video/Film Date: 09 Aug 2003 14:37:59 -0600 Preston Hunter wrote, "I went to high school in Smithfield Utah, back in the 70's. There was a movie that was so corny that even the seminary teachers thought it was too earnest, and they would show it once a year for a seminary party. I thought that it was called Eagle City, but I've searched for it with google to no avail. I don't know if it was made by the church, but I always thought it was. It was an anti-drinking film, in which the good naive kid goes off with the bad kid to Eagle City to buy some beer. Ever hear of it?" Is that the one where one kid says to the other, "Yeah, let's go beer and pretzels!" We in the know always laughed because, hey, why waste money on pretzels? Greg Taggart -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] SL Tribune: 2003 Sunstone Symposium Date: 09 Aug 2003 16:09:33 -0700 (PDT) =20 SATURDAY August 09, 2003 =20 LDS black experience tops themes of SLC symposium,=20 By Brandon Griggs=20 The Salt Lake Tribune=20 =20 Forty years ago this month, Martin Luther King Jr. electrified a crowd in Washington, D.C., with his spoken hope that people "not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." Fifteen years later, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints opened its priesthood to black men. The legacies of those landmark events will converge next week at the Sunstone Symposium in Salt Lake City, where King's eldest son will address the annual gathering of Mormon intellectuals. In the days following Wednesday's keynote speech by Martin Luther King III, three panels will explore the LDS black experience. One panel will consider why the LDS Church's message does not play as well with blacks in America as it does in sub-Saharan Africa, where Mormon missionaries have converted more than 160,000 people. Others will feature black Mormons discussing their personal experiences of joining the church or finding a comfortable=20 spiritual home among fellow Saints. King, president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, will discuss his late father's messages of justice and equality as they apply to the 21st century. His 8 p.m. lecture at the Sheraton City Centre, host to the symposium, is free and open to the public. Sunstone officials, who sent King materials on=20 LDS Church history and doctrine, expect him to=20 tailor his remarks to a Mormon audience. The Sunstone Symposium runs through next Saturday and is rich with anniversaries. Besides marking four decades since the elder King's "I=20 Have a Dream" speech in 1963, the event commemorates the 25th anniversary of the LDS Church's priesthood policy change and the 25th anniversary of the Sunstone Foundation. It also marks 10 years since six Mormon scholars were disciplined by the LDS Church for expressing views that challenged church teachings. In a high-profile rebuke in September 1993, five Mormon intellectuals were=20 excommunicated and another disfellowshipped. Five of the "September Six," as they became known -- Lavina Fielding Anderson, Maxine Hanks, D. Michael Quinn, Paul Toscano and Lynne Whitesides -- will appear on a Sunstone panel Thursday to discuss their journeys of faith over the past decade.=20 The remainder of the four-day conference features the usual smorgasbord of spiritual, doctrinal and cultural topics -- many inspired by recent headlines. One panel will probe the Mormon prophetic tradition as it relates to accused Elizabeth Smart kidnapper Brian David Mitchell. Another has Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson and guests discussing the firestorm over the LDS Church's contested Main Street Plaza. Others will explore recent controversial books by Judith Freeman (on the Mountain Meadows Massacre) and Jon Krakauer (on violence within Mormon splinter groups). "Sunstone naturally reflects the issues that are going on around the country and that people are discussing in their wards," says director Dan Wotherspoon, who edits Sunstone's bimonthly magazine. Wotherspoon succeeded longtime foundation director Elbert Peck two years ago and has=20 worked to make Sunstone more inclusive to voices across the Mormon intellectual spectrum. Attracting conservative Mormon scholars to Sunstone has been difficult since the LDS Church urged its members to avoid "symposia" in 1991. But the church has remained silent on the subject since, and Wotherspoon believes that in recent years most Mormon intellectuals have felt freer to participate in Sunstone without fear of reprisals. Tickets to the 25th annual Sunstone Symposium range from $6 for a session pass to $75 for the entire conference. Tickets are available from the Sunstone Foundation at 355-5926 or over the Internet. For tickets and a detailed program, visit http://www.sunstoneonline.com.=20 =20 =A9 Copyright 2003, The Salt Lake Tribune.=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: [AML] What Is Gender? (was: Definitions of GLBT etc.) Date: 10 Aug 2003 21:16:23 -0500 [MOD: I'm introducing a broader thread title here in the interests of pursuing Lisa's question, which I think is an interesting one that we might pursue here. Keep in mind, however, that our purpose is not to discuss LDS doctrine per se. As much as possible, I'd like to keep this as a sharing (not debating) of various ways of conceptualizing this within an LDS context, with an eye (as always) to how that might affect the literature we read and write, or even how we read and write literature.] ----- Original Message ----- > > So far as I have been able to determine, the Church does not have a stance > on intersexuality. Does anyone have further information? > I saw a Discovery Channel special about this condition a few months ago. >From what I can remember it seems that there are some pretty strong feelings among those who have and treat this condition that it would be best to let the child grow up some before surgically or otherwise determining its sex because one will often turn out to be dominant in puberty and if he/she has already had the other sex "imposed" on him/her it is a real crisis. But then, the whole thing is a real problem and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with it. I don't know about the church's official position, but I remember my cousin telling me once about a family she knew who had had a child with this condition and they had to decide which sex he/she should be. Her comment was that they really struggled with the question of the implications of choosing a sex for the child, particularly whether it was supposed to be a boy and have the priesthood. Which brings up a question that I find compelling and pretty much unanswered in our theology. What is gender anyway? I mean beyond the definition of gender as the social constructs surrounding biological sex. We believe that our Father's spirit children have eternal gender identities both pre- and post- mortal. So what does that mean? What does it mean to be "male" or "female"? What is the essence of each gender that causes the division? Most Mormons seem content to accept some form of the priesthood/motherhood dichotomy, but that doesn't satisfy me. The priesthood/motherhood assignments seem to be, if anything, the result of gender, not the cause. As far as I have seen there is nothing in the scriptures anywhere that addresses this subject. Sure would be interesting to know. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 10 Aug 2003 21:21:46 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > I was quite surprised during the Lewinsky embroglio tht they didn't > decide to call Starr a Mormon, since his church is a splinter off of > ours as well. But then again it's a legal church and has been for more > than a century. I suppose it's only the illegal sects that get to be > honorary Mormons since they can't form their own churches dedicated to > breaking the law. > Okay, I have to ask for more information about this. I read Newsweek and other sources throughout the imbroglio and I don't remember any references to Starr's religion. What church does he belong to? Can you give a source? Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 11 Aug 2003 20:17:03 -0600 At 12:09 AM 8/9/03 -0600, you wrote: >It's a sticky issue for politicians, >and places like Colorado City may simply be ignored. Which will suit the >residents of Colorado City just fine. Not all of them. I've recently met several women who are enraged at the way they were abused by this system, which seems structured to suit the kind of men who think that dominating and controlling women and children makes them God. One woman wanted to know why the law allows this illegal system to exist when it's hurting so many people. I also met a very fine young man who was thrown away by his family because he didn't want to be ordered to marry a bunch of women he didn't want. There is a lot of abuse going on there in the name of the "priesthood." Sounds like priestcraft to me. As a Mormon, I don't want to be connected with this stuff in people's minds. But Krakauer is making a lot of money by doing just that. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] SL Tribune: 2003 Sunstone Symposium Date: 11 Aug 2003 19:13:02 -0700 I'm curious if anyone knows and can tell me if anyone from The Genesis Group, an official branch of the Church for African-Americans and their friends and families, has been asked to be on any of the panels exploring the LDS Black experience. Darius Gray was just released as the Branch President and is uniquely qualified to be on any of these panels. Also, will there be any mention of the documentary that Richard Dutcher and former ASBYU Student Body President Rob Foster just completed on the Revelation on Blacks and The Priesthood? Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Definitions of Mormonism Date: 11 Aug 2003 20:14:57 -0600 I have friends who belong to the former Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ or Latter Day Saints, who call themselves Mormons. I am not currently in touch with them so I can't ask them how things are done now that they have changed their name to Community of Christ. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 1 Aug. 03 Date: 11 Aug 2003 21:49:19 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of August 1, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 25 2 Fast 2 Furious 361,965 319 59 Paul Walker (lead actor) 125,380,175 43 Wrong Turn 71,068 82 66 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 15,176,515 58 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 18,848 8 906 Scott Swofford (producer) 15,058,218 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 66 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 11,155 4 1179 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,441,116 69 Cremaster Cycle 7,860 3 101 Mathew Barney 400,868 (writer/producer/director/actor) 73 China: The Panda Adventure 4,176 2 738 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,298,647 79 The R.M. 3,011 4 185 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 1,044,262 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. UPCOMING LDS-THEMED (+1) FILM RELEASES - Here's a summary of the current official release dates for LDS-themed films this fall. (We've added "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" to the list because it is a film of particular interest to members of the Church and was made by the Latter-day Saint filmmakers who made "The Other Side of Heaven," although "Lingo" itself does not have any LDS characters.) August 8/7 - Suddenly Unexpected (Houston, Texas only) 8/29 - The Work and the Story (Utah - Salt Lake City, Provo, possibly Logan) The Legend of Johnny Lingo (Utah, Atlanta, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Phoenix/Mesa, and Las Vegas) September 9/12 - The Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey (Utah) October 10/10 - Day of Defense (Utah) Best Two Years (Utah) LDS FILMMAKING PICKING UP - This past couple of weeks has been a flurry of activity on the filmmaking front. The LDSfilm.com webmasters have met or otherwise spoken with quite a few filmmakers, and we're excited about what the future holds for LDS film professionals. A lot of it we've been able to pass on to you, but we're aware of several new major developments on the filmmaking scene that we are unable to release quite yet. Stay tuned for some important announcements in the weeks and months to come... SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED IN THEATER - Below is text from the webpages currently showing noting the upcoming theatrical release of the Houston-made Latter-day Saint-themed feature film "Suddenly Unexpected." Note that the movie will be playing daily for one week at 11:00 A.M. each day, plus one evening showing on Monday night (for FHE). The technical industry term for this schedule is "Outer Darkness," or "OD" From Nova Meyerland 8 movie theater, http://www.novacinemas.com/listing.cfm?ID=17.00000 : COMING SOON: Next week: SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED () starring: Jerald Garner, Michael Judd, Junii Hoang, Robert Mock, Brendan Estridge, Martin Estridge and Batty Times: World Premiere: Thursday, August 7 at 7:00 August 8 - 14 11:00am Monday August 11 at 11:00am and 7:00pm SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED Two young mormon missionaries wake up to find themselves evicted from the house, where they had been renting rooms from a now deceased widow. Unbeknownst to the elders, the widow's daughter has come to settle the estate and have an estate sale all in one day. The two missionaries awake to find people rummaging through their belongings asking, "Is this for sale?" The day takes some twists and turns as Elder Jones and Elder Smith ride their bikes to pick up a birthday package for Elder Smith. The Elder's bikes are unfortunately backed over at the post office and they end up bumming a ride with an older but kindly man. The Elders hope to return home quickly but their new friend has other plans. They are soon of going from one strange adventure to another. The Elders wonder what on earth they have gotten themselves into but before the day is out their view of the old man and themselves changes. We live in a world of sorrow and pain but all it takes is one person unafraid to make a difference. The Elders are surprised and delighted when they learn this lesson first hand. * * * * * * * HALESTONE (HALESTORM) TO DISTRIBUTE ANOTHER PROD. CO.'S MOVIE: B2Y - HaleStone Distribution, the distribution arm of HaleStorm Entertainment, will distribute the upcoming LDS-themed feature film "The Best Two Years." Previously, HaleStone has only distributed HaleStorm Entertainment-produced movies: "The Singles Ward" and "The R.M." With the release of "The Best Two Years," HaleStorm/HaleStone will become only the second distribution company to distribute LDS Cinema movies from multiple production companies. Excel Entertainment remains the leader in the market, having released "God's Army" and "Brigham City", made by Richard Dutcher's Zion Films, as well as the Garbett/Molen production "The Other Side of Heaven" and the Kaleidoscope Pictures/Focused Light Films production "Jack Weyland's Charly." The remaining movies in the niche are: - "Handcart," which was directed by Kels Goodman and distributed directly by him. Goodman has publicly stated that self-distribution was very difficult and is not something he would recommend. - "Out of Step," which went through a couple different distributors in two separate theatrical releases. Neither theatrical release was very successful with regards to box office performance, despite good notes from reviewers. * * * * * * * MICHAEL MCLEAN INVOLVED IN MUSIC FOR "BEST TWO YEARS" - We can now announce that learned that legendary Latter-day Saint songmeister Michael McLean and some of his associates will be handling the music for the upcoming Latter-day Saint-themed feature film "Best Two Years." Michael McLean had an immeasurable impact on the institutional filmmaking of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as a producer, writer, director and songwriter of many of the Church's major video productions of the 1980s. Produced and directed "Nora's Christmas Gift" (1989) a 46-min. TV movie, widely available on video, produced by the Church. "Nora's Christmas Gift" starred Celeste Holme and Elizabeth Wilson and featured the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. McLean co-wrote the story treatment and was the producer of the popular film "Mr. Krueger's Christmas" (1980), starring film legend Jimmy Stewart. McLean currently focuses on songwriting, producing some of the best-selling albums in the Latter-day Saint music market, and developing popular stage musicals, such as "The Ark." Additional bio information from Brother McLean's website at http://www.michaelmcleanmusic.com/ THE LEGEND OF JOHNNY LINGO PREMIERE APPROACHING - "The Legend of Johnny Lingo," a feature film produced by Jerry Molen and John Garbett and directed by Steve Ramirez -- all of whom worked on "The Other Side of Heaven" -- will be released in theaters at the end of this month. On August 28, 2003 there will be a special premiere in Salt Lake City for "Johnny Lingo." August 29th, Labor Day Weekend, the film opens in Utah, Atlanta, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Phoenix/Mesa, and Las Vegas before moving on to numerous other places all around the country. "DAY OF DEFENSE" PREMIERING OCT. 10, SEE THE CONTROVERSIAL MOVIE POSTERS W/ELDERS - The official "Day of Defense" website (http://www.dayofdefense.com) displays October 10th as the day of the premiere of this long-delayed LDS-themed feature film. Two different movie posters can be seen on the website, one featuring the Elders and one featuring the lawyers. Interestingly enough, "Day of Defense" will be the first LDS Cinema film in which the main characters are NOT Latter-day Saints. (Unless you count Rogers' Book of Mormon movie... in which the main characters are Lehi and his family, but that's not what we mean.) "Day of Defense" is about a small town which tries to prosecute Latter-day Saint missionaries for proselyting, thanks in large part to some bigoted Protestant clergymen. The main characters, played by Latter-day Saint actors Andrew Lenz and Brooks Utley are non-LDS lawyers who are friends, but who find themselves on either side of the case. Prolific LDS Cinema casting director Michelle Wright has the lead role as the wife of one (but not both!) of the lawyers. The movie was directed by Adam Lawson, and was adapted from the same-titled book by A. Melvin McDonald. "SUDDENLY" STAR JUDD PRODUCING A FEATURE - The updated biography of Latter-day Saint actor Michael Judd on the official website of the movie he stars in ("Suddenly Unexpected"), states that he is working on producing a film: [QUOTE] Michael Judd is a native of Bountiful, Utah. He served as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in California. It was only in the last year that Michael found acting and began his career as an actor. Before "Suddenly Unexpected," Michael was in the Mormon genre movie "Day of Defense." He has also been seen on CBS's "Touched by an Angel." Michael is also a producer for 4Leaf Films and is presently in production of his first featured film as a producer. [END QUOTE] * * * * * * * MAJOR MODIFICATIONS TO BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE WEBSITE - Extensive modifications have been posted to the official website for Gary Rogers' upcoming movie, at http://www.bookofmormonmovie.com, including a frequently asked questions section we found to be very interesting. Check it out on their website. We've included the text of one of the questions in the new FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ) section here: [QUOTE] Q. What involvement has the Church had in this movie and how do they feel about it? A. This is the question people ask the most. It seems like the same question is asked every single day. We are going to spend some time answering the question so we do not have to answer it again! During October General Conference, 1988 President Ezra Taft Benson stated; "I have a vision of artists putting into film, drama, literature, music, and paintings great themes and characters from the Book of Mormon." President Spencer W. Kimball has made similar statements. Because of these and other statements made by leaders of the Church, it seems clear to us that the Church would like to see a movie on the Book of Mormon produced. However, because The Book of Mormon Movie is an independent commercial production, the Church cannot nor should not endorse it. If the Church got involved in our production, they would have to get involved in any "Mormon themed" production, and that simply isn't practical. If a General Authority took me aside and told me this was a great movie that everyone should see, we wouldn't disclose that on our website for fear it would give the appearance the Church was endorsing the movie! Many people have asked why the Church hasn't produced a movie on the Book of Mormon. It would be difficult for the Church to get into the commercial movie business for many reasons. Whoever produces a movie on the Book of Mormon has to take some creative liberties. For example: if you are going to tell the story of Lehi's journey to the Promised Land, the viewer will get to know Lehi's family very well. We know that Nephi had sisters but the Book of Mormon doesn't tell us how many sisters he had. Whoever makes the movie will have to give them a number. If the Church makes the movie and gives Nephi 3 sisters, many people would take that as "gospel" because it was in a movie produced by the church! What do the brothers say to each other on their way back to Jerusalem to get the plates? We have no record of what they said. However, anyone making an entertaining movie that the general public would enjoy watching, would have to create some "filler" dialogue that is not found in the book. We have added dialogue and elements that we believe are plausible and consistent with the overall text. Before the movie even begins, a disclaimer appears on the screen which is also narrated, stating the movie is neither sponsored nor endorsed by the Church. It also advises the viewer that certain creative liberties have been taken and tells the viewer that the most complete and accurate account can be found in the record itself, the Book of Mormon. We hope that many people will want to read the book after seeing the movie. We have made every effort to produce a motion picture that will be pleasing to the Lord, the general public and the Church. [END QUOTE] The FAQ section also addresses the question of the movie's rating. The FAQ states that a Gary Rogers Book of Mormon movie (he plans to make many) will NEVER be rated R. But it states that this first one, and probably many of the others, could very likely be rated PG-13 because of the intensity of and violence of the source material. * * * * * * * TRU CALLING: The producer of "Tru Calling," the upcoming FOX TV series starring two Latter-day Saint actresses, has been compared by the show's producer to the TV series "Touched By An Angel," which was filmed in Utah with a predominantly Latter-day Saint crew. From http://www.scifi.com/sfw/current/news.html: [QUOTE] Neil Moritz, producer of Fox's upcoming SF series Tru Calling, told SCI FI Wire that production has begun on the first episode, which he characterized as "our version of what Touched by an Angel should be." "It's much hipper," he said in an interview. "It's got a great feel to it." Eliza Dushku (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) plays Tru Davies, a young morgue worker who receives messages from the dead, then zaps back in time to prevent their deaths. Moritz said that the show would handle the violence tastefully. "I wouldn't say there's gruesome gore," he said. "Obviously we're dealing with death, and there are some horrific images, but it's not over the top by any means." Moritz added that Fox has ordered 13 episodes, but that he hopes to produce a lot more. Tru Calling will air Thursdays at 8 p.m., starting in the fall. [END QUOTE] MODINE STARRING IN BASEBALL TIME TRAVEL TV MOVIE: This week's SciFi.com news also describes an upcoming made-for-TV movie "The Winning Season," which will star non-Churchgoing Latter-day Saint actor Matthew Modine. Modine told SCI FI Wire that the sory is about old-fashioned ethics and values. "It's about honesty, being a gentleman, [and] about manners, how perhaps people had more manners and were more polite in the past. [It's about] the values of the past and the game of baseball... The idea that a baseball player could make so much money today, all the [past] baseball players -- Babe Ruth and Honus -- they're all laughing." The movie is based on the book _Honus and Me_ by Dan Gutman, about a boy who, with the aid of a magical old baseball card, travels back to the 1909 World Series and finds himself transformed into an adult. "The Winning Season" is set to premiere on cable network TNT in the spring of 2004. THE WORK AND THE STORY FEATURED IN KSL NEWS STORY - Channel 2, KSL, based in SLC for Utah market, ran a news feature story about Nathan Smith Jones upcoming LDS-themed feature comedy "The Work and the Story." There were interviews with Ron Ralston, Dan Merkley, and and the incomparable, irascible director (and star) Nathan Smith Jones. "The Work and the Story" stars Kirby Heyborne ("The R.M.", "The Singles Ward"), Richard Moll ("Night Court") and "Richard Dutcher" as sort of "himself." "The Work and the Story" will officially be released on August 29th in Salt Lake City, Provo and possibly Logan, Utah. It is being distributed by Off-Hollywood Distribution. Coincidentally, this is the same date that "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" is being released on 100 screens. ARTICLES ABOUT HALESTORM'S "THE HOME TEACHERS" - See: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45131 http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45132 http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45173 Our understanding is that "The Home Teachers" is wrapping principal photography today. NEW FROM EXCEL ENTERTAINMENT: LAVELL EDWARDS DOCUMENTARY - Excel Entertaiment will be distributing a new documentary about LaVell Edwards' final season at BYU called "Last Miracle for LaVell." It will be released to the public on August19 (on VHS and DVD). Everybody who loves Edwards, or loves BYU football in general, or loves life in general, should check this out... NEIBAUR'S "HAWKING" IMAX NEARS COMPLETION - The IMAX film about non-LDS astrophysicist Stephen Hawking, directed by LDS filmmaker Bruce Neibaur, is nearing completion. See http://www.imaginaryuniverse.com/beam.html ARTICLE ABOUT LDS HOLLYWOOD ACTRESS ANN SWARD HANSEN - See http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510043966,00.html? ARTICLE ABOUT MATTHEW BARNEY'S "CREMASTER" - See http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/entertainment/stories.nsf/Entertainment/Vis ual+Arts/D960A031BD268BA486256D6E0078F15A?OpenDocument&Headline=Matthew+ual+ Barney%3A+The+art+world's+straight,+white+hope+ THE BEST TWO YEARS ARTICLE - See http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45154 SISTER NELEH QUITS MORNING NEWS SHOW - Neleh, who starred in the top-rated TV show "Survivor: Marquesas," has quit her gig on local news. See http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08012003/friday/80164.asp * * * * * * * UTAH-BASED FILM FESTIVAL CALL FOR ENTRIES - Announcing the Free Form Film Festival! Call for Entries! loaf-i productions and Inner Mission Productions are two media-arts collectives that have combined resources to organize the first annual Free Form Film Festival (FFFF). The FFFF is a traveling free-format festival. Any style, genre, format, or length of film will be considered. We believe in the virtues of artistic and cinematic eclecticism, and will be taking our festival to several cities in an attempt to expand our filmmakers' sphere of influence. We initially extended this call for entries over a month ago, but are still in serious need of material. FILMMAKERS SHOULD SEND US THEIR WORKS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Our first deadline is on August 15th. Entries received after August 15th will need to include a five dollar late fee. All pertinent information is available at http://www.loaf-i.com thanks, tyrone davies tyrone@loaf-i.com * * * * * * * ACCLAIMED LDS SHORT FILM DIRECTOR SEEKING UP AND COMING COMPOSER - Filmmaker Tucker Dansie has asked us to post the following: Seeking composer for "One of Life's Little Lessons" Hi there, Tucker Dansie here. In the next few months I will be finishing up "One of Life's Little Lessons" film series. I would like to have the entire series scored (about 20 minutes worth of 5 different films, each with there own feel and 1 main theme song.) I'm looking for composers that could send me a demo of their work that would be similar to the feel of what's on their now (temp tracks) or I'm willing to listen to new ideas too. I cannot pay up front, unless my distributor will help, which I doubt, but I will defer on the royalties from sales. I have many companies interested in selling. If you are interested please contact me by e-mail and I'll give you can address to send a CD or if you have an MP3 that's even better. You can see the films now with the temp music at www.oneoflifeslittlelessons.com Tucker Dansie tucker@dansie.com * * * * * * * NEW WEBSITE FOR DISPLAYING SHORT FILMS: MORMONMOVIES.COM - We are currently trying to put our URL to good use. We would like to put together a website where MORMON filmmakers can put there short films up on the web for others to view them. WWW.BRITSHORTS.COM is an example of what we are trying to achieve. We are looking for the following: 1. Web Designer(s) 2. Host server There is no money involved in this project just a hobby, but hey that's how YAHOO and GOOGLE got started (not to mention LDSfilm.com). CONTACT: WEBMASTER@MORMONMOVIES.COM -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 11 Aug 2003 20:24:33 -0700 Quinn, I'm very grateful for your review, and for Richard's comments, and those of others. I haven't gotten a copy of this book yet. As time goes on, I'm less and less concerned about this. They should show up at DI at any time. One question, if I may. You refer to the book as a "novel." Was this a deliberate comment on how you view the book -- more fiction than fact? This is a strong indictment, if it's true. Thanks again for your comments. -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Potter on _Suddenly Unexpected_ Premiere Date: 11 Aug 2003 21:51:08 -0500 Director Mark Potter reports on the premiere of his LDS-themed movie "Suddenly Unexpected", Thursday night, August 7th, 2003: The movie opened last night. Before the showing, both Marge and I were feeling very nervous. We had not seen the final 35mm print. It did not come in until Tuesday afternoon. We got to the theater at 5:30. I could not rela= x as people began arriving. Actually I would have preferred to be some place else. At 7:10 Marjorie and I introduced the film. It began to roll but the sound was not up. Marjorie and I were out of the theater in a bolt. The projectionist had pushed a wrong button. This does not help very nervous people. Once the sound was back on, we went back to the theater. Marge forced herself to go back in and sit down. I stood in the back. I was dying until the audience started laughing. If only a few people laugh, you can no= t hear a thing in the back. It is not until the whole house laughs that you can tell that they found something funny. Once they started laughing regularly, I could sit down in the theater for the rest of the film. They kept laughing-people don't fake laughing or laugh to be polite to make the director and producer feel better. The whole audience laughing is a good judge that you can tell if the movie is working or not. Once the whole hous= e started laughing they kept going through the rest of the movie. Then the movie ended with a big laugh. When people see you after the movie, you expect that they will do what most people do and be polite and say something nice no matter what they thought. So we take what people say with a grain of salt. But I did have two different eight year olds come up to me and say that they thought it was very funny and wanted to know when they could get it on video. Kids don't lie about such things so I knew that they really did like it. Of course we never thought about making a movie 8 years old would like. It just happened= . Several people asked when the video would be out which we took as a good sign. Some of the emails sent to us from non-members said =93I was at the premiere. It was great! Congratulations. Some very creative humor..=94 Another said, =93I responded to the film's gentle, unforced humor. The relationship between th= e elders came across as warm and very human. I liked both of them, and you made it clear how the strange little odyssey with the package enriched thei= r relationship from externally-ordered companions into guys who would like each other even if they weren=92t on a mission together.=94 Another non-member said to us, =93I loved the pacing of the movie. It relaxed me and made me laugh too=94. The audience was about 60% members and 40% non members. Member enjoyed it too. They had many positive reaction. It worked in all ag= e groups of 6 up to 86. I would say that around 80% of the audience really enjoyed the movie. We left the theater feeling very good. Exactly what we are going to do from here, we are not sure at this moment. We are pondering on it. [Forwarded with the permission of the author.] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Episcopalean Revelation Date: 11 Aug 2003 20:29:09 -0700 As a vintage member of the Episcopal church, I can make the following comments: 1. The source of authority in Anglicanism has always been three-fold: scripture, tradition and reason. Scripture has never been the sole authority. As a Roman Catholic, Mr. O'Reilly observes two of those sources -- scripture and tradition. 2. This has less to do with continuing revelation than with a continuing presence of Christ within the community. Anglicanism is essentially an "incarnational" religion -- where the life of the community centers on the eucharistic elements, and being thus filled with the body and blood of Christ, the people become the habitation of God. This provides for a dynamic that is hard for some to understand. And, in fact, it is an environment where reason can leap-frog over scripture and tradition, thus allowing for such novelties as the ordination of women and the elevation of the gay fellow to the bishopric. It's really a whole different world from Mormonism. -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Review of Krakauer and Others in _Salon_ Date: 11 Aug 2003 20:30:51 -0700 This is news to me, too. I'm very interested. Lisa Tait wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "thelairdjim" > > > I was quite surprised during the Lewinsky embroglio tht they didn't > > decide to call Starr a Mormon, since his church is a splinter off of > > ours as well. But then again it's a legal church and has been for more > > than a century. I suppose it's only the illegal sects that get to be > > honorary Mormons since they can't form their own churches dedicated to > > breaking the law. > > > Okay, I have to ask for more information about this. I read Newsweek and > other sources throughout the imbroglio and I don't remember any references > to Starr's religion. What church does he belong to? Can you give a source? > > Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vholladay5254@aol.com Subject: [AML] Is It Funnier with the Profanity? Date: 12 Aug 2003 09:09:23 EDT It's been a while since the subject has come up and the Krakauer thread is definitely more interesting, but this article on Neil Simon caught my eye. From my position in (LDS) publishing, the profanity question among writers was always moot, since it was a non-issue. It didn't matter if it was more realistic in writing or not, if it was offensive to readers we had to work around it. While some writers might find this choice offensive, for us it was better to be less offensive than to be more realistic. This was the article in a nutshell: Neil Simon was asked for permission by the owners of a Pleasant Grove playhouse for permission to run his play "Rumors" without several certain four-letter words - approximately nine. Others words would remain, but these particular ones were particularly offensive to the local audience. Well, apparently Mr. Simon doesn't think so. In fact, he apparently "thinks his plays are far more funny with profanity in them than without." In fact, he feels so strongly about this that he's not granting the Pleasant Grove theatre permission to do his play. According to his lawyer, "I doubt that any person with the proper upbringing would be corrupted by hearing these words." One of the owners, Gayliene Omary, who paid the $800 royalty to produce the play, said she thought it wouldn't be a problem to cut out the profanity because she's been in other productions in which directors omitted language that may have offended the audience expected to attend. The tussle mostly comes over nine utterances of the four-letter "F" word. "We're keeping several damns and hells," Omary said. "But we won't make the cast members say the others." Does this tell us why we need more good Mormon theatre? http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045557,00.html -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? (was: Definitions of GLBT etc.) Date: 12 Aug 2003 12:07:12 -0600 ----- Original Message -----=20 > > So far as I have been able to determine, the Church does not have a stance > > on intersexuality. Does anyone have further information? > > > implications of choosing > a sex for the child, particularly whether it was supposed to be a boy and > have the priesthood. > > Which brings up a question that I find compelling and pretty much unanswered > in our theology. What is gender anyway? I mean beyond the definition of > gender as the social constructs surrounding biological sex. We believe that > our Father's spirit children have eternal gender identities both pre- and > post- mortal. So what does that mean? What does it mean to be "male" or > "female"? What is the essence of each gender that causes the division? Most > Mormons seem content to accept some form of the priesthood/motherhood > dichotomy, but that doesn't satisfy me. The priesthood/motherhood > assignments seem to be, if anything, the result of gender, not the cause. As > far as I have seen there is nothing in the scriptures anywhere that > addresses this subject. Sure would be interesting to know. ______________________________________ >From the family proclamation: All human beings=97male and female=97are created in the image of God. Each= is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual pre mortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. That seems scriptural enough for me. As far as what that means? -- Well it seems that Heavenly father saw the need for different roles and functions in mortality and for that matter for life eternal to perpetuate itself. So he made us two separately different entities, each with a definite role in the process of procreation. A man and a woman are two separate parts of a whole, and as such they fit together and serve God's holy purposes. As far as the intersexual dilemma of the cross gender birth defects go, I have no idea why these things occur. Why are some children born without arms or legs? Why are some born deaf or blind, or with other debilitating defects? We just have to deal with these problems like any of the other problems brought on by the conditions of mortality. It has bothered me for some time that there are a number of women in the church or out of it that feel that being a woman somehow makes them inferior, or that theological doctrine somehow denigrates their gender. The truth is - If we look at the simplified story of creation we have been given in scripture, and also had laid out so beautifully for us in the temple ordinance, is it so difficult to see that God created everything in a very organized hierarchy? First plants, then creeping things, then higher forms of animals, then Man (from dust) and last Woman from the rib of the man. This order is symbolic of our order of importance to God. God saved his finest creation for last. To man he gave the Priesthood and the responsibility of decisions and leadership with more than ample opportunity to make many mistakes, but to women he gave the power of creation and the responsibility to hold posterity within their bodies. Men grow their seed daily and it is either used or cast away periodically. Women hold all the seed they will ever possess from birth. This is an awesome responsibility, one that could only be intrusted to His finest creative efforts. I think it is best if we just deal with what God has given us, the best we can, and not be so bent on trying to reshuffle the deck. Life is good, and God is in charge. We just have to figure it out and do the best we can. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 12 Aug 2003 13:56:47 -0600 Hey guys. Eric Samuelsen back, after falling under the knives of = surgeons. Good to check out the several hundred AML messages waiting = for me here in Outlook; man I've missed our dialogue. As Mary Aagard kindly pointed out, I reviewed Laura Miller's review of = the Krakauer book, which, at the time, I hadn't had a chance to read. = Basically I was responding angrily to Miller's article/review thingy, = which I thought did not live up to the generally high factual standards = Salon (and Miller, frankly) set for themselves. Brigham Young resembled = Mao Tse-tung in these particulars: they were both male, and they were = neither of them Eskimos. Beyond that, further comparisons are absurd. =20 I now have read _Banner_, and haven't much to add to Richard Dutcher's = excellent non-review review. Krakauer is a journalist, not a historian, = and he's also clearly someone who isn't at all well versed in Mormon = history. I love his mountain climbing books; Into Thin Air is brilliant, = because Krakauer knows that world in his bones, and as always, writes = compellingly. He's in over his head dealing with Mormon history or = contemporary mainstream Mormonism. Beyond these few points, however, something else needs to be said. In = part, the violence of those Mormon fundamentalists who are violent is in = fact rooted in some strands of nineteenth century rhetoric. Jedediah = Grant did, in fact, preach blood atonement (the notion that certain sins = are so serious, especially apostasy, that the sinner must atone for them = by the effusion of his/her own blood). Couple days ago, a letter to the = editor in the Deseret News argued against an effort in the Utah = legislature to end firing squads as a death penalty option, because = Mormons run this state and we believe in blood atonement. Well, I'm a = Mormon and I don't believe in blood atonement. And the evidence that it = was ever an official doctrine of the Church is not strong. (In fact, it = fundamentally contradicts essential Mormon understandings of Christ's = atonement). But it's not difficult to trace the logic thusly: Jedediah = M. Grant preached blood atonement from the pulpit. He was an apostle. = When the Brethren speak by the Spirit from the pulpit, it's scripture. = Therefore, we believe in blood atonement today, and forever.=20 And thus Krakauer's main argument, and the one that personally offends = me the most, could be said to be valid. A potential for violence = underlies the principles of my religion. Ouch. Now, that offends me, in large measure because my everyday = experience living as a Mormon is so much the opposite. Mormonism today, = it seems to me, primarily centers around family and service. The = Lafferty's have no more to do with how I experience my religious life = than Osama has to do with how my dearest Muslim friends experience their = religious life. Family home evening is not a violent experience, except = on those rare occasions when we only have seven brownies left for our = four children. Now, could the Church do more to distance itself from the fundies? It's = hard to imagine how. But could the Church do more to distance itself = from Jedediah M. Grant? Yes. Isn't it about time that we Mormons = acknowledge that General Authorities, even Apostles, can and do make = mistakes? They can and do preach silly things from the pulpit. They = can and do hold tight to foolish and outdated folk doctrines, or pull = their ideas from some popular social theory. And we, as members of the = Church can and do make up our own minds about whether or not we agree = with them, through, of course, prayer, but also, let's face it, through = reason. Or have none of you had the experience of driving home after a = Stake Conference or a Fireside and saying to your spouse "man, that was = one lousy talk?" Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] ROWLING, J.K. _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ (Review) Date: 12 Aug 2003 14:17:27 -0600 It's always dangerous to respond to a post a month after it was first = posted, but when have I ever been wise? I absolutely love Harry V. I think it's the greatest book in the = series. I've been reading it aloud to my children, and it's been a = ball; I get to come up with new character voices for Tonks (sort of Toni = Colletteish), for Bellatrix (definitely Margaret Hamilton: the Wicked = Witch of the West), Kingsley Shacklebolt (James Earl Jones) and best of = all for Delores Umbridge (Carol Channing). But what I love about the new = Harry Potter IS in fact the LDSness of it. Because this book, far more than the others, is about death. In this book, you see Dumbledore's office, where he constantly receives = advice from the portraits of previous headmasters. I kept thinking of = President Hinckley, and how specifically he builds his presidency on the = presidencies of Brigham Young or Spencer Kimball or Howard Hunter. =20 In this book, of course, Harry loses a friend to death, and has to come = to grips with that. In this book, Harry learns unsettling truths about his sainted dead = father. His geneology, so to speak, has a few dark corners to it. = Sirius, meanwhile, reveals through his rejection of it, that family = history, when used to show how cool you are to have had such wonderful = relatives, can lead to the worst sorts of damning pride and arrogance.=20 In this book, however, the sealing power of family is shown to be the = greatest power in the world. =20 And in this book, Harry asks a ghost to explain death to him. And the = explanation is wonderfully comforting and mysterious and right. =20 It's a great book, and a very funny book. Harry is very much a teenager = in this book, much given to histrionics and mood swings and = emotionality, clueless about girls, but also obsessed with them, and = also, at times, astonishingly mature and grown-up. I have two teens at = home, and it's such a wonderful age. Also, at times, no fun at all. Best of all, this is the book where Hermione most comes into her own. = She's such a wonderful character, so bright and insightful and loyal and = brave, endlessly patient with Harry and Ron, but also snappish and = impatient too. She's truly one of the great creations in modern = children's literature. =20 And Fred and George rock. They are laugh out loud funny, pretty much = non-stop. And Umbridge is a wonderful villain. But this is a book that will bring you closer to God. It's a book that = I can talk to my kids about, all of 'em, because it's true and good and = virtuous. Love love love this book. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 12 Aug 2003 00:03:53 -0700 How does Hugh Jackman strike you guys? Or what about Viggo Mortinson? (Sorry about the spelling... you know the guys I mean: Wolverine and Aragorn, respectively) I'd be interested to get some informal survey feedback. (Your responses will be taken seriously) Jongiorgi Enos ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:05 PM > Nothing against Val Kilmer, but I hope they don't cast him as Joseph Smith. I just can't see him in that role. It's almost as bad as the idea of Nicholas Cage playing Superman. Good actors, just not right for the part. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: Re: [AML] SL Tribune: 2003 Sunstone Symposium Date: 12 Aug 2003 13:48:15 -0700 The documentary, "Eleventh Hour Laborers" is not completed. In fact, it is in its earliest phases of pre-production. Initial artwork and promotional material are completed and look fabulous, and work on script and interviews move forward. This is going to be an extremely exciting, moving and important project. It is still in desperate need of funds (what isn't, besides Halestorm films). Interviews for the documentary are scheduled to be taken during the Symposium, including MLK, Jr. Brother Gray and others are, or will be, closely involved with the documentary. I don't know whose been invited to speak on Sunstone panels. Jongiorgi Enos ----- Original Message ----- > I'm curious if anyone knows and can tell me if anyone from The Genesis > Group, an official branch of the Church for African-Americans and their > friends and families, has been asked to be on any of the panels exploring > the LDS Black experience. Darius Gray was just released as the Branch > President and is uniquely qualified to be on any of these panels. Also, > will there be any mention of the documentary that Richard Dutcher and > former ASBYU Student Body President Rob Foster just completed on > the Revelation on Blacks and The Priesthood? -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] SL Tribune: 2003 Sunstone Symposium Date: 12 Aug 2003 14:58:03 -0600 Looks like I'd better answer some questions. Darius and I have both declined to participate in _Sunstone_ this year because there is some concern at Deseret about disapproval from the Church Office Building inhabitants. Darius, however, will be offering one of the prayers for the plenary session, at which Martin Luther King III will be speaking. I have been an active Sunstone participant for years, and look forward to being freed up to be so again. I met Darius five years ago at Sunstone, where I was doing a panel with Gene England--a 20 year retrospective after the priesthood revelation. Now, about the really exciting documentary Richard Dutcher, Wayne Lee and Rob Foster are doing--I WISH it were completed, but it is only just beginning. I am so excited about Richard's vision and the wonderful resources Wayne and Rob bring with them and the filming that has already been done and is scheduled to be done very soon. This will be a remarkable documentary, probably oscar-worthy. Want to be involved? There's an easy way. Make your check out to the Edification Foundation and send it to Zion Films/The 11th Hour at 37 W. Center Street, Suite 200, Provo, UT 84606. We give special prizes to those who donate $1000 or more. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred C Pinnegar Subject: [AML] LDSBA Convention This Week Date: 12 Aug 2003 16:01:53 -0600 The LDSBA Convention opens this week at the South Towne Convention Center in Sandy. The AML has representation there this year with "associate" status. If you are going, please drop by my booth and introduce yourself (FCP Publishing and Distributing #414). There seems to be a great distance between the AML people (writers and critics) and the LDSBA people who try to scratch a living by selling LDS books and products. It is a fact of life, however, that the gate keepers of LDS literature are mostly plump old ladies wandering the halls of the convention and making decisions about where they will spend their money and how they will stock their independent LDS bookstores. Moreover, these same plump ladies are at the same time trying to divine the current and future tastes and values of a similar set of plump ladies, the ones who like to spend their money buying LDS books and products. Anyway, it would be nice to see an AML person on the LDSBA program one of these years as a speaker to talk about some of the fine but less known writers among us, and it might also be helpful if we gave more attention to the LDSBA people when they talk about what their customers want but don't see on the bookstore shelves. By the way, I am showing Paris Anderson's recently reprinted little book, "Tough-Luck: Sitting Bull's Horse." A stunning illustrated children's book about the murder of Sitting Bull in his old age. The story is told largely through the perspective of Sitting Bull's relationship with the show horse given to him by Buffalo Bill. A true story based on historical facts. Regards, Fred Pinnegar, Owner FCP Publishing and Distributing -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Carter Subject: [AML] Research on Polygamy (was: Dutcher on KRAKAUER) Date: 12 Aug 2003 12:15:31 -0800 >===== Original Message From Barbara Hume ===== >I've recently met several women who are enraged at the way >they were abused by this system, which seems structured to suit the kind of >men who think that dominating and controlling women and children makes them >God. There is a very good book published by Oxford Press by Janet Bennion (who teaches social sciences at UVSC) called _Women of Principle: Female Networking in Contemporary Mormon Polygyny_. In it Bennion finds out what some of the attractions are to polygyny, and they are surprisingly many. Women who find themselves on the fringes of Mormon culture because they have children and no husband, or are otherwise unlikely to marry, find the idea of becoming a part of a family again very attractive. And the cultural narrative among fundamentalists is very strong too. If you believe the idea that you can reach the Celestial Kingdom by the way you marry, a woman can go from being a welfare check in the mainstream Mormon society to marrying a high ranking man in a polygynous community. Though she will more than likely still be poor as dirt, at least she is now part of a family that is headed straight for the upper strata of the CK. Bennion's main thesis is that by entering into a very structured and oppressive society, women ironically gain a lot, just in ways we wouldn't think of. For example, though the men go to all the important meetings and have dictator-like power in the home, the women are absolutely essential to the success of the community. The organizations the men have set up to run the community are relatively insignifcant compared with what the women do just as a matter of survival. It's the women who keep the community afloat. A single woman in mainstream Mormonism usually can't be such a valuable force to her own community as she is always scrimping and working to keep alive. THe women also often enjoy a strong sense of community with their sister-wives and neighbors. They're like soldiers in the trenches, fighting to keep each other alive and becoming closer as a result. On the other hand, Bennion portrays the men as lonely characters. Their lofty leadership positions, the little time they have to spend with their wives and families, and the fact that usually they don't have a permanent home, combine to make them into wanderers, going from one home to the next. It's also tough to make it as a young man in polygyny, as there is tremendous competition. Often a woman will want to marry a man already proven in the field of righteousness, rather than take a chance on a young, untried man. Many sons of polygyny end up leaving the community because they can't marry. It's a very interesting book because you find the heartbreaking stories as well as the beautiful ones, like miraculous healings. Janet lived with a polygyous community for a number of months doing her research. I'd suggest it as essential reading to anyone who thinks about polygamy (the majority of Mormons, most likely). Stephen Carter Fairbanks, Alaska -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: "Passion" Film Stirs Anti-Semitism Fears Date: 12 Aug 2003 17:37:25 -0700 (PDT) (This article isn't strictly concerned with Mormon literature, but it raises some perennial questions for Mormon artists; how can you portray disturbing material in your work? The Book of Mormon is tremendously violent. How are the makers of the B of M film going to be faithful to the text and deal with this material? And what about the racial angle, like the anti-Semitism concerns raised about "The Passion." The portrayal of Nephites versus Lamanites could be a potential minefield.--R.W. Rasband) Deseret News, Tuesday, August 12, 2003 'Passion' film fuels anti-Semitism fears Jewish leaders get first glimpse of Gibson's work By Amy Westfeldt Associated Press=20 NEW YORK =97 Those who have seen Mel Gibson's film about the final hours of Jesus Christ have called it beautiful, magical, a great and important work. Those who fear "The Passion" could fuel anti-Semitism, however, until now hadn't been allowed to see the film. Seven months before its release, this extraordinary vanity project is stirring passions over Gibson's exclusionary screenings and the potential for a negative depiction of Jews. =20 On Friday it was shown in Houston to an audience that included for the first time an official from the Anti-Defamation League, which fights anti-Semitism. Audience members signed confidentiality agreements before attending the screening. =20 "We still have grave concerns," Rabbi Eugene Korn, director of the ADL's Office of Interfaith Affairs in New York, told the Houston Chronicle in Saturday's editions. =20 Not just Jews are concerned =97 the film was first questioned by a nine-member panel that included Christians. Gibson is a member of an ultraconservative Catholic movement which rejects the Vatican's authority over the Catholic Church. =20 Gibson has said the film is faithful to the account of the crucifixion in the four Gospels and is meant "to inspire, not offend." =20 The star of the blockbuster "Lethal Weapon" movies and Oscar-winning director of "Braveheart" has spent nearly $30 million of his own money to produce, co-write and direct "The Passion," starring Jim Caviezel as Jesus and Monica Bellucci as Mary Magdalene. Filmed entirely in the languages of Aramaic and Latin it has yet to secure a distributor. In recent weeks, the actor-director had been building support with=20 invitation-only screenings for film industry insiders, conservative=20 commentators, evangelical Christians and sympathetic Jews. =20 Trailers of the two-hour movie have turned up on some Web sites. A 4 1/2-minute preview was shown Friday for thousands of people attending a Christian festival at Anaheim, Calif. =20 Ted Haggard, president of the National Evangelical Association, saw a screening in late June with about 30 evangelical scholars. The scholars are very strict about adherence to scripture, so Gibson "had no assurances that we would be friendly toward that movie." =20 But Haggard loved it. "I thought it was the most authentic portrayal I've ever seen." =20 Cal Thomas, a conservative syndicated columnist, called the film "the most beautiful, accurate, disturbing, realistic and bloody depiction of this well-known story that has ever been filmed." Internet personality Matt Drudge told MSNBC: "It depicts a clash between Jesus and those who crucified him and speaking as a Jew, I thought it was a magical film that showed the perils of life on earth." But critics of "The Passion" =97 who have not seen the film =97 worry that the popular Hollywood superstar will attract millions to see a violent, bloody recounting of the crucifixion that portrays Jews as a frenzied mob eager to watch Jesus die. =20 "For too many years, Christians have accused Jews of being Christ-killers and used that charge to rationalize violence," said Sister Mary C. Boys, a Catholic professor at the Union Theological Seminary who read an early draft of the script. "This is our fear." =20 Boys and others on a committee of nine Christian and Jewish scholars that reviewed the script said Gibson may have been skewing public opinion by screening the film primarily for conservatives. =20 Paul Lauer, marketing director for Gibson's Icon Productions company, said the committee obtained a stolen, outdated script that is completely different from the rough cut of the film being screened. The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued an apology this spring after learning a staff member had obtained a draft, and the script was returned. Boys said an Icon employee provided an intermediary with the script. While Gibson said "The Passion" will be the most authentic account ever of the crucifixion, Boys said the script she read presented the Jews as more culpable for Christ's death than the Romans who executed him. It only recounts the last 12 hours of Christ's life, she said, and therefore lacks the context to explain the Jews' portrayal. "It seems to me that the film looked on Jews as antagonists, Jesus as this perfect victim," she said. =20 Boys and others said they have received anti-Semitic hate mail after being quoted in news reports criticizing "The Passion." Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said the center has received several dozen letters related to his criticism of the film. =20 Gibson said in a June statement that he and his film are not anti-Semitic. "My intention in bringing it to the screen is to create a lasting work of art and engender serious thought among audiences of diverse faith backgrounds (or none) who have varying familiarity with this story." =20 But what is Gibson's version of the story? His traditionalist religion rejects the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, which in 1965 rejected the notion that Jews were collectively responsible for killing Jesus. The actor is building a traditionalist church in Malibu, Calif., for about 70 members, and intends to hold Sunday services there in Latin. =20 His father, Hutton Gibson, was quoted in a New York Times Magazine article in March as denying the Holocaust occurred. =20 Meanwhile, film industry observers are wondering whether this film can find an audience. =20 Lauer said the film has not sought a distributor, but that at least three major studios are interested. Also, although the recent screenings have included English subtitles, Icon hasn't decided whether to include them in a major release. =20 "I don't know that he will be able to find a studio that will distribute this," said Kim Masters, a film columnist for Esquire Magazine. Masters said industry people who have seen the film respect its quality, but said it is disturbingly graphic. =20 "It's not a family film, from what I understand," she said. "It's a really difficult film." =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 13 Aug 2003 01:03:58 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend of August 8, 2003 Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 20 Le Divorce (NEW) 516,834 34 3 Matthew Modine (actor) 516,834 27 2 Fast 2 Furious 289,910 302 66 Paul Walker (lead actor) 125,882,195 53 Wrong Turn 37,914 66 73 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 15,265,241 58 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 22,780 8 913 Scott Swofford (producer) 15,093,348 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 66 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 11,663 4 1186 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,465,323 77 Cremaster 3 5,658 2 108 Mathew Barney 415,988 (writer/producer/director/actor) 79 China: The Panda Adventure 5,152 4 745 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,316,951 84 The R.M. 2,315 4 192 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 1,049,650 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED PREMIERE - Suddenly Unexpected, the 9th LDS Cinema film to hit theaters, premiered this past weekend in Houston, Texas. Other scheduled premieres of LDS-themed theatrical releases (plus Johnny Lingo): August 8/29 - The Work and the Story (Utah - Salt Lake City, Provo, possibly Logan= ) The Legend of Johnny Lingo (Utah, Atlanta, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Phoenix/Mesa, and Las Vegas) September 9/12 - The Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey (Utah) October 10/10 - Day of Defense (Utah) Best Two Years (Utah) Note that August 29th and October 10th EACH have TWO films scheduled to be released on those dates. There should be plenty to choose from this fall fo= r fans of LDS Cinema. LDS co-webmaster (and Meridian Magazine film reviewer = - not to mention his REAL career as a film composer) Thomas C. Baggaley will be attending screenings of both "The Work and the Story" and "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" in the next couple of weeks. We'll keep you posted on what h= e thought. MARK POTTER ON THE SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED PREMIERE - "Suddenly Unexpected" director Mark Potter writes the following about the Aug. 7 premiere of his Latter-day Saint-themed film: The movie opened last night. Before the showing, both Marge and I were feeling very nervous. We had not seen the final 35mm print. It did not come in until Tuesday afternoon. We got to the theater at 5:30. I could not rela= x as people began arriving. Actually I would have preferred to be some place else. At 7:10 Marjorie and I introduced the film. It began to roll but the sound was not up. Marjorie and I were out of the theater in a bolt. The projectionist had pushed a wrong button. This does not help very nervous people. Once the sound was back on, we went back to the theater. Marge forced herself to go back in and sit down. I stood in the back. I was dying until the audience started laughing. If only a few people laugh, you can no= t hear a thing in the back. It is not until the whole house laughs that you can tell that they found something funny. Once they started laughing regularly, I could sit down in the theater for the rest of the film. They kept laughing-people don't fake laughing or laugh to be polite to make the director and producer feel better. The whole audience laughing is a good judge that you can tell if the movie is working or not. Once the whole hous= e started laughing they kept going through the rest of the movie. Then the movie ended with a big laugh. When people see you after the movie, you expect that they will do what most people do and be polite and say something nice no matter what they thought. So we take what people say with a grain of salt. But I did have two different eight year olds come up to me and say that they thought it was very funny and wanted to know when they could get it on video. Kids don't lie about such things so I knew that they really did like it. Of course we never thought about making a movie 8 years old would like. It just happened= . Several people asked when the video would be out which we took as a good sign. Some of the emails sent to us from non-members said =ECI was at the premiere. It was great! Congratulations. Some very creative humor..=EE Another said, =ECI responded to the film's gentle, unforced humor. The relationship between th= e elders came across as warm and very human. I liked both of them, and you made it clear how the strange little odyssey with the package enriched thei= r relationship from externally-ordered companions into guys who would like each other even if they weren=EDt on a mission together.=EE Another non-member said to us, =ECI loved the pacing of the movie. It relaxed me and made me laugh too=EE. The audience was about 60% members and 40% non members. Members enjoyed it too. They had many positive reaction. It worked in all age groups of 6 up to 86. I would say that around 80% of the audience really enjoyed the movie. We left the theater feeling very good. Exactly what we are going to do from here, we are not sure at this moment. We are pondering on it. ------ [LDSFilm.com: As far as we have been able to ascertain, neither the Houston Chronicle nor any other news organization has reviewed this movie. Box office numbers were not available for the film. If they become available, w= e will pass that information along.] HOUSTON TV NEWS: "SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED" AND ITS DIRECTOR PROFILED; BUDGET GIVEN - Here is a writeup of a profile done by the local Houston news network affiliate. A video clip of interview with director Mark Potter is included. There is a photo of Mark Potter and his wife, Marjorie, who produced. The budget is cited as being just over $100,000. See h= t tp://www.news24houston.com/content/headlines/?ArID=3D12434&SecID=3D2 SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED IN HOUSTON CHRONICLE - The Houston Chronicle noted the premiere of the Latter-day Saint-themed feature-length film "Suddenly Unexpected." See http://www= . chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/features/2033342. Aug. 6, 2003, 8:39PM CALENDAR MORMON COMEDY: Suddenly Unexpected, a comedy about a day in the lives of tw= o Mormon missionaries, premieres at 7 tonight at Meyerland Nova Theatre. The movie by MPotter Productions, a Houston company, was shot in and around Houston in October and concerns two young men who wake up to find themselve= s evicted from their rented rooms. The movie will also show at 11 a.m. Friday through Aug. 14 and at 7 p.m. Monday. For more information, see www.suddenlyunexpected.com. SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED POSTCARD - See http://www.= l dsfilm.com/pm/SuddenlyUnexpectedPostcard.jpg THE LEGEND OF JOHNNY LINGO WEB SITE - The official website for the upcoming movie "The Legend of Johnny Lingo" is now online www.johnnylingo.com It features a trailer and everything. Very cool. The website is much less serious in tone than the impression I had of previous publicity materials and press releases. The new "Johnny Lingo" movie was produced by Latter-day Saint producers Jerry Molen ("Schindler's List", "Jurassic Park", "The Other Side of Heaven") and John Garbett ("Shrek", "The Other Side of Heaven"), and directed by Latter-day Saint film editor Steven Ramirez ("The Other Side of Heaven"), making his directorial debut. The screenwriter is the most critically acclaimed Polynesian screenwriter working today, and the cast consists entirely of Polynesian actors. ------ In other (unrelated) news, we have carefully checked, and can now report that there no known LDS influence went into making the recently released movie "Gigli." Non-Mormons nationwide are reportedly feeling ashamed that their culture gave rise to this film. THE WORK AND THE STORY PRESS RELEASE - The Work and The Story - =84The funniest movie ever made about Mormon Cinema=BE =82 Coming to theaters August 2= 9 SALT LAKE CITY, UT =82 Richard Dutcher returns to the silver screen, acting i= n his first film since Brigham City (2001). In March, 2000 Richard Dutcher=BCs film God=BCs Army (a story about a Mormon missionary) was released and eventually grossed over $2.3 million in theaters. God=BCs Army was the first commercially successful film by a Mormon, for Mormon audiences, which was followed by a flood of new theatrical releases all targeting Mormon audiences including Singles Ward, The Other Side of Heaven, Out of Step, Charly, Handcart and The R.M. More =84Mormon=BE films are in production and several are scheduled for release= . There are romances, comedies, pioneer and missionary stories, war stories, and even films about The Book of Mormon. The Work and The Story parodies the hilarious gold-rush that took place as Mormon filmmakers rushed to cash in on the success of God=BCs Army. Richard Dutcher plays himself, the man who founded =84Mormon Cinema=BE, who in July 2000, is missing and presumed dead. Will Richard be found? Who will save Mormon Cinema? The film follows three novice filmmakers as they attempt to take their place as the next =84Mormon Spielberg=BE. But one of these novice filmmakers doesn=BCt want Richard found=E4 A timely comedy opening in theaters August 29, The Work and The Story stars Richard Dutcher, Kirby Heyborne (Singles Ward, The R.M.) Nathan Smith Jones= , (Movie Show Host, KJZZ) Richard Moll (=84Bull=BE on the 80s sitcom Night Court) and Jen Hoskins. Visit www.theworkandthestory.com for more information ECLIPSE FILM FESTIVAL - Be sure to submit your films to the Utah-based, family-friendly, internationally prestigious Eclipse Film Festival. The deadline for the next festival is Sept. 15th. I think this will be the 4th year for the event, which is one of the biggest film festivals in the state that you have a chance of getting your film accepted into. OSMOND FAMILY GETS STARS ON HOLLYWOOD WALK OF FAME - See http://dese= r etnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045510,00.html?. PROD=EFI=EFGAL, NEW DANSIE FLICK - From a press release. Filmmaker attempts to do justice to Christ=EDs Famous Parable in "prod=EFi=EFgal" "There was a man who had two sons;" that's how the classic parable begins. And within only a few verses we are taught, among other things, about forgiveness, jealousy, temptation and rebellion. It's a story that has fascinated us for generations, by one of the greatest storytellers ever. Centuries later, acclaimed filmmaker Tucker T Dansie ("COLORS: up close & personal"-Director / "Suddenly Unexpected" -Director Of Photography) will attempt to do justice to this tale by modernizing it's elements in his newest short film. This will include some modernizing of rebellious acts, a job that could prove to be "tricky". Dansie and his crew will be putting the twenty-something son through alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex and violence, all things that are unfortunately gaining popularity in society these days. "The challenge will be to show these temptations and make them look as despicable as they are, while keeping the film watch-able." says Dansie, the films writer/director/producer. The LDS Church did their version of the parable, titled "The Prodigal Son", which delivered a powerful message about jealousy. But unlike that production, which was primarily about events that occurred after the son's return, Dansie's "prod=EFi=EFgal" will focus on the son leaving home, his lose of innocence, and the state of torment that he leaves his family in. It will also reflect Dansie's signature style, which can be seen in his other short films and documentaries. "It's a beautiful story that everyone knows by heart" says Dansie, commenting on the challenge of making a story that everyone already knows the ending to. "It's not really about the conclusion; it's the ride that we are all hanging on for that matters. And I'm hoping to touch some emotions I've never touched on before." Although he was the Director of Photography on the LDS comedy feature film "Suddenly Unexpected" which opened in Houston, Texas in August of 2003, "prod=EFi=EFgal" is the first film he has written and directed that contains religion as a central theme. Dansie is also completing work on his "One of Life's Little Lessons" series, which are a series of heartwarming, funny and dramatic "Little Lessons" for all ages to enjoy. For those curious thespians out there, the lead role in "prod=EFi=EFgal" was written for an actor friend of Dansie's, who has appeared recently in a LDS direct-to-video release by another award winning director, Christian Viussa called =ECUnfolding=EE. Other roles for the film wil= l be up for Audition at the end of August, with the cameras rolling soon thereafter. More information on "prod=EFi=EFgal", or any of Dansie=EDs other films can be found at www.tuckertdansie.com NEW MERIDIAN ARTICLE: RECOMMENDED LDS VIDEOS & DOCUMENTARIES - Meridian Magazine's newest film article, written by Thomas C. Baggaley, can be found here: http:= / /www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/030808recomendations.html. The article recommends the following LDS Documentaries and Videos: Documentaries American Prophet (1999) - Lee Groberg and Heidi S. Swinton Forgotten Voyage (2002) - Scott Tiffany Lehi's Land of First Inheritance (2002) - Chris Heimerdinger One Hundred Years of Mormonism (1913) Anything by Carole Mikita Direct-to-Video Films Roots & Wings (2002) - Christian Vuissa Pioneer Miracle (2003) - T.C. Christensen Only Once (1998) - Rocco DeVilliers Eliza and I (1997) - Richard Dutcher Johnny Lingo (1969) - Wetzel O. Whitaker The Phone Call (1977) - Douglas G. Johnson Newly Released to DVD =82 Brigham Young Be sure to read the full article. DONNY STARS IN NEW TV SPECIAL - See http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045156,00.html NEW BOOK ABOUT MO-TAB TV PROGRAM - See http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045631,00.html MITCHELL'S NEW LAVELL EDWARDS DOCUMENTARY - Kevin Mitchell has produced a new documentary about LaVell Edwards' final season as head coach of the Brigham Young University football team. For more info, see http://cougarfan.com/teams/football/news/2002/09-17-lavell-video.html. SLC PUNK - Deseret News feature editor and former film reviewer Chris Hicks writes about "SLC Punk," which was made by non-LDS Salt Lake City resident James Merendino. See http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045359,00.html. An aside, which has nothing to do with Hicks' article: This movie exhibits some anti-Mormon sentiment, but is not at all an anti-Mormon diatribe, and Merendino doesn't seem overtly or egregiously anti-Mormon or anti-Semitic..= . just young and ignorant. "SLC Punk!" stars Matthew Lillard, best known as "Shaggy" in the recent "Scooby Doo" feature film. MORE DESERET NEWS - Deseret News movie writer Vice lists numerous LDS-made and LDS-themed movies in his roundup of currently released and upcoming movies made in Utah. One thing I thought was interesting was that "Unexpected People" is listed as an upcoming theatrical release. Formerly titled "War in Heaven," many people have thought that this was a badly made short student film. Maybe it is significantly more than this. From http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045360,00.html: Filmmakers flocking to Utah By Jeff Vice
Deseret Morning News =DD =DD =DD Films and television programs shot entirely or partially in Utah during the past year and their current video status: RECENT/CURRENT RELEASE "Charly": Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliot; theatrical film (VHS/DVD). =DD =DD =DD "The Core": Aaron Eckhart, Hilary Swank, DJ Qualls, Stanley Tucci; theatrical film (VHS/DVD, Sept. 9). =DD =DD =DD "Gerry": Casey Affleck, Matt Damon; theatrical film. =DD =DD =DD "Handcart: The Movie": Jaelan Petrie, Stephanie Albach, Christopher Kendrick, Shannon Skinner; theatrical film (VHS/DVD). =DD =DD =DD "Hulk": Eric Bana, Jennifer Connelly, Nick Nolte, Sam Elliott; theatrical film (VHS/DVD, Oct. 28). =DD =DD =DD "Legally Blonde: Red, White & Blonde": Reese Witherspoon, Sally Field= , Luke Wilson, Bob Newhart; theatrical film. =DD =DD =DD "Little Secrets": Evan Rachel Wood, Michael Angarano, David Gallagher= , Vivica A. Fox; theatrical film (VHS/DVD). =DD =DD =DD "Right on Track": Beverly Mitchell, Brie Larson, Jon Lindstrom, Jodi Russell; Disney Channel TV movie. "The RM": Kirby Heyborne, Britani Bateman, Merrill Dodge, Tracy Ann Evans; theatrical film (VHS/DVD, September). =DD =DD =DD "Top Speed": Tim Allen (narrator); large-format theatrical film. Canadian geese over Utah's Monument Valley in "Winged Migration." Mathieu Simonet, Sony Pictures Classics=DD =DD =DD "Winged Migration": Theatrical film. AWAITING RELEASE/AIRING =DD =DD =DD "The Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey": Noah Danby, Jacque Gray, Bryce Chamberlain, Jan Felt; theatrical film (Sept. 12). =DD =DD =DD "Day of Defense": theatrical film (Oct. 10). =DD =DD =DD "For Time and All Eternity": Direct-to-video (December). =DD =DD =DD "The Maldonado Miracle": Eddy Martin, Peter Fonda, Mare Winningham, Ruben Blades; Showtime TV movie (Oct. 12). =DD =DD =DD "The Work and the Story": Richard Dutcher, Nathan Smith-Jones, Kirby Heyborne; theatrical film (Aug. 29). RECENTLY COMPLETED FILMING =DD =DD =DD "Benji Returns: Rags to Riches": Lincoln Hoppe; theatrical film (2004). =DD =DD =DD "Best Two Years": Kirby Heyborne, K.C. Clyde, Cameron Hopkins; theatrical film (fall or winter). =DD =DD =DD "Fly Boys": Tom Sizemore, Stephen Baldwin, Jesse James, Reiley McClendon; theatrical film (2004). =DD =DD =DD "The Home Teachers": Jeff Birk, Michael Birkeland; theatrical film (Jan. 9, 2004). =DD =DD =DD "Saints and Soldiers": Corbin Allred, Larry Bagby III, Kirby Heyborne= ; theatrical film (early 2004). =DD =DD =DD "Pride and Prejudice: A Utah Comedy": Ben Gourley, Hubbel Palmer; theatrical film (fall). CURRENTLY/OR SOON TO BE FILMING =DD =DD =DD "The Crow: Wicked Prayer": Edward Furlong, David Boreanaz, Tara Reid, Dennis Hopper; theatrical film. =DD =DD =DD "Eat, Drink & Get Married": Theatrical. =DD =DD =DD "Everwood": Treat Williams, Gregory Smith, Emily VanCamp, Debra Mooney; WB TV series (new episodes air in September). =DD =DD =DD "Plainsong": Rachel Griffiths, Megan Follows, Cody Arens, Marian Seldes; CBS TV movie (fall). =DD =DD =DD "A Thief of Time": William Martin Brennan; PBS TV movie. =DD =DD =DD "Unexpected Race": Theatrical film. EVEN MORE DESERET NEWS - Extended article about filming in Utah: See http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045354,00.html. Utah is one of the top 5 states in the country in volume of film and television production. BENJI ARTICLES - Multiple articles about the upcoming "Benji" feature film, which stars LDS actors Nick Whitaker ("Brigham City," "Bug Off!", "Message in a Cell Phone"), Lincoln Hoppe ("The Singles Ward", "Handcart", "Out of Step", "The R.M.", "The Last Good War", "Freedom on the Water"), and Christopher E. Kendrick ("Handcart", "The Promethean"). http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045352,00.html
http://deser= e tnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045396,00.html EVANGELICAL CHURCH MEMBERS BURN COPIES OF HARRY POTTER/BOOK OF MORMON - Those wacky Evangelicals are at it again... See http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/newsflash/get_sto= r y.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?g9957_BC_MI--BookBurning&&news&newsflash-m= i chigan COSMIC AGENTS LOOK HERE - Martial Artists Talent Search Tournament Wanted: Martial Artists, especially those crossed trained in numerous styles, wanted to take part in Martial Artists talent search tournaments, the best ones to win parts in the movie series, now in the works, Cosmic Agents. Looking for a series of combinations for self defense scenes, & situations:= =85 One on one. =85 One against two. =85 One against three or more. =85 Team fighting situations. =85 Against different types of weapons. =85 We will also be testing your abilities to be able to work out fighting scenes with main characters. Not interested in seeing katas or forms. Contestants will be judged based on their abilities to make their fighting scenes look real, but more importantly safe for those taking part in them. This is also a Fund raiser for movie series: Entrance fees for tournament:= $15 per person taking part in self defense situations created. What to bring to tournament: Costumes: Futuristic gang type dress, use your imagination on what might be worn by roaming gangs seeking food, fuel, weapons, and other needs, in a futuristic world, where transportation, the trucking system, and trade, as we now know it, has changed, or broken down. Bring Certifications of ranks, with a resume of any other abilities and talents that relate to martial arts and making movies. Plus head shot(s). (For example, if you have college training in lighting, cameras, sound, editing or acting experience, etc., we would like to know about it). (Optional), bring any Video footage, or CD-RW disks of tournaments, or fighting scenes you have done in the past. Especially high quality footage that could be chosen and used in the movie, with your permission. This is a martial arts tournament that we hope will bring out the best talented martial artists from around the Salt Lake valley area, or other places in Utah. If you don't "win" the opportunities of being in major fighting scenes in this movie series, but can demonstrate that you are a very good martial artist, you might be asked to take part as a paid extra i= n some of the different fighting scenes that the main characters will do. Credits and ads: The different martial artists, and martial arts schools that take part in this tournament and the movie, will also be listed in the movie's credits along with their schools' logos, phone numbers, or web site address. A larg= e web page address will also be included in the credits too. On this web page will be links to those martial artists who have web sites, and who wish to place an ad for their school in the movie's credits and the movie's up coming web site. Dates: Starting in Aug. 5, 2003, every Tues. evening on through the month of Sept. 2003, from 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. at the following location. Location: Big Cottonwood Park - 4300 S. 1300 E. in Salt Lake City. (North-east side of park, north of baseball field; east of the small play ground area, up on the hill, near the covered tables). Parking is on both the west side (off of 11th east); and on the east side (off of 13th E.) What to bring: Your own lunch (optional), and water. (We will have food an= d drinks to sale as part of the fund raiser for the movie, plus Cosmic Agents= , clothing for sale too). Head shot (if you have one), plus, a resume (in printed form or burned to a CD), of your movie making experiences, training & equipment that you might have, (computers, lighting, cameras, mikes, musical instruments, etc.); plus, skills, educational background & movie credits. Martial Artists should bring: 1. Certification of rank (if possible). 2. Costume to warm up and work out in, or dress accordingly. 3. Water (freeze water in a plastic container, so you can have ice water to drink, and cool yourself off with). 4. Martial art weapons, (if you would like to show us your skills in them). 5. A Martial Art skit ready, that shows us your skills. (Not interested in seeing forms or katas, but how you react to different self defense situations, such as one on one, one against two, three, or more, etc., team fighting). 6. (Optional): Video or CD of Martial Art events, skits, or tournaments that shows your skills. 7. (Optional): Safety equipment, pads, bags, first aide kit. (We want to keep these Martial Art tournament sessions as safe as possible). Sparring, (not full contact, but with control). Can you make it look real, without hurting your fellow Martial Artists? Come ready to show Skits done with weapons. Situational skits (Some one grabs you, what can you do, etc).= This will be the first of many on going Martial Art Talent Search Tournaments, so if you cant make it to the first one, don't worry, they wil= l be on going, Aug. through Sept., 2003, every Tues. evenings, 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. If you are interested, please contact: Darell Thorpe, III Millennium Movie Makers, IIIMMM; e-mail: dathorpe@hotmail.com. CASTING A COMMERCIAL - UTAH - From: "Michelle K. Wright" mkwright@peoplepc.com Hello Everyone - =DD Christian, with Xortium Productions, is looking to cast his commercial.=DD Al= l info below.=DD=DD Make sure to tell him I sent you - and good luck! .=DD =DD Also check out Utah Casting Connection's website. I think it's great for Utah's talent.=DD =DDI'm sending my directors and casting directors to the website=DDto find talent for their projects!=DD=DD=DD=DD=DD=DD=DD=DD =DDhttp://www.utahcastingconnectio= n .com=DD =DD Michelle K. Wright
And Action! Actor's Studio
http://www.actionacting.com =DD Utah Casting Connection Hi Michelle, Just wondering if you could send out a message for us. We are shooting a "Lifestyles Video" for a brand new Travel Company called Grand Travel Getaways. We are looking for a select few individuals that can clean up ver= y well, and look "LITERALLY" like a million bucks... CLASSY AND YET NOT TACKY= . We need the following: - 3 Beautiful, sophisticated men and women in their 30's to 50's.
- 4 or 5 children from 4 to 10 years old. This project pays $0. We are looking for people who are willing to help us out, and have some GREAT footage for their reel. We will be shooting within the next 3 weeks sometime in the Walker Lane area... date not known as of yet. We will be shooting in front of a 45,000 sq. ft. Mansion/20 million dollar home, with all of the most expensive vehicles, etc. It will be a very fun shoot, with Helicopter and all. This will not take the entire day, but we need these people to be willing to wor= k for 8 hours if needed. Please have all interested parties email me directly with their headshot & resume (If nothing else, their latest Headshot & Personal Details) at christian@xortium.com ASAP. Also make sure that all contact information is included as well. Thanks so much Michelle! Let us know what we can ever do for you! Christian S. Jensen Director of Creative Development XORTIUM, LLC Draper, Utah 84020 Email me at: christian@xortium.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 13 Aug 2003 08:18:26 -0700 Matthew Modine is LDS? Paul Walker is too? Never knew that. What exactly is the definition of LDS for this report? Susan M --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 20 Le Divorce (NEW) 516,834 34 3 Matthew Modine (actor) 516,834 27 2 Fast 2 Furious 289,910 302 66 Paul Walker (lead actor) 125,882,195 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul VanDenBerghe" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 13 Aug 2003 09:15:44 -0600 I would love to see either of these two actors take the role of Joseph Smit= h= before Val Kilmer. Nothing against Val Kilmer; I just don't like his acting. Paul VanDenBerghe >>> jongiorgi@sunset.net - 8/12/03 1:03 AM >>> How does Hugh Jackman strike you guys? Or what about Viggo Mortinson? (Sorry about the spelling... you know the guys I mean: Wolverine and Aragorn, respectively) I'd be interested to get some informal survey feedback. (Your responses will be taken seriously) Jongiorgi Enos -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Quinn Warnick" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 11:28:17 -0400 Jeff Needle wrote: | One question, if I may. You refer to the book as a "novel." Was this a | deliberate comment on how you view the book -- more fiction than fact? This is a | strong indictment, if it's true. Oops. What can I say? It was late, I was typing too fast, and I didn't proofread before hitting "send." The book is definitely not a novel, and I didn't mean to characterize it that way. Thanks for your positive feedback. Long-time lurkers like me rarely post, but when we do it feels nice to know that people are reading. Quinn Warnick -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 13 Aug 2003 08:47:57 -0700 I think Hugh Jackman could do an excellent job of portraying both Joseph's known sense of humor and playfulness, (ala Kate and Leopold), while being able to handle the serious aspects of his personality and life, (ala Wolverine), and do the western frontiersman thing, (ala Curly in "Oklahoma). And he seems to have the closer physique to Joseph's body-type. What a hunk. He would be my preference in the role. Including over Val Kilmer. Viggo Mortenson is lesser known to me, although he did a fantastic job in LOTR. Aragorn was, by the nature of the story, more melancholy, but there was the occasional flash of humor as when he wryly smiled upon being begged by John Rhys Davies character, "Don't tell the elf!" Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Matkin Subject: RE: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 10:40:46 -0600 My son has earned his MPA at BYU and is moving this week to Lawrence to pursue his PhD. in the field of public administration. By the time he's done he will have spent half his life in school and probably won't be good for anything except to spend the rest of his life in academia. But that's okay, he's living life as he goes. He married in 1998, in the middle of his last year of his Bachelors program in Recreational Therapy, and moved into a basement apartment in Provo with his new bride. They lived there for 3 years and their landlady was Sister Lafferty. The refrigerator didn't stay cold very well, and there were lots of spiders in the basement, they had no laundry facilities, it wasn't very close to campus, but upstairs was a kind, compassionate, devout lady, who became, for them, something of a surrogate grandmother. We met her many times as we came and went visiting our son and dil. Once I asked her briefly, as we picked grapes together in her garden, about her family, boldly wondering out loud if she was possibly connected to the infamous apostates. She acknowledged that her connection was indeed intimate and tragic and, necessarily, because these are her children, ongoing. Another time we had a long discussion about Michael McLean's "The Ark" which I had just seen at Thanksgiving Point and which she was planning to go to see as well. She seemed to have a keen interest in the LDS arts. I can't remember whether or not I warned her that I had sometime heard Thom Duncan express (probably on this list) his great ambition to explore her family tragedy in some theatrical or literary way. For those three years Sister Lafferty was there as a great friend and generous parental figure to a pair of newlyweds and then new parents hundreds of miles away from their own parents. I have nothing but fond and grateful feelings for this good woman, as do my son and dil. I suspect that if Krakauer treated her quietly and kindly in his book, which someone on this thread wondered about, it was because he came to know her and realized that she is a sweet innocent victim, unworthy of public analysis and shame. Tom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Is It Funnier with the Profanity? Date: 13 Aug 2003 13:00:36 -0500 --- Original Message --- >Does this tell us why we need more good Mormon theatre? Your assumption being, I presume, that good Mormon theatre would never have the "F" word in it? I personally have never used it any of my plays thus far but that's only because I haven't yet written a play where I feel it is needed. (I have used other words in my Mormon plays but not that one.) If the occasion ever come up, however, I would throw the word in without a second thought. Now, would I produce it at my theatre? Not as a main stage production. One of the mandates of the Nauvoo Theatrical Society is to help nurture new plays, the only criterion being that they must be good plays. If we ever decided to do a good play with such language, we would probably do it on an off-night, in more of a reader's theatre environment, and clearly advertise it as an experimental LDS play. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 13 Aug 2003 14:05:15 -0500 --- Original Message --- > >Or what about Viggo Mortinson? > >(Sorry about the spelling... you know the guys I mean: Wolverine and >Aragorn, respectively) You mean the same Viggo who played the bad boyfriend to Julianne Moore in the remake of Psycho, who had a nice butt shot? So far I haven't anyone suggesting an actor to play Joseph who more approximated his physical type: 6 feet, 200 pounds, (considered porty by some accounts) with a slightly receeding chin. My suggestion would be John Lovitz. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 10:39:42 -0700 Thanks for the clarification. And it's great hearing from the "lurkers" -- please post again soon! Quinn Warnick wrote: > Jeff Needle wrote: > > | One question, if I may. You refer to the book as a "novel." Was this a > | deliberate comment on how you view the book -- more fiction than fact? > This is a > | strong indictment, if it's true. > > Oops. What can I say? It was late, I was typing too fast, and I didn't > proofread before hitting "send." The book is definitely not a novel, and I > didn't mean to characterize it that way. > > Thanks for your positive feedback. Long-time lurkers like me rarely post, > but when we do it feels nice to know that people are reading. > > Quinn Warnick -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 11:37:36 -0700 I really don't feel qualified to reply to Richard's exellent observations, I haven't read the book, only reviews and probably won't get the book until it hits the clearance rack on my local Barnes & Noble, or Waldens And Quinn, Eric and others have provided astute non-review/reviews. But this has been eating at me and thoughts about it running around in my head, so for my own sanity, and begging my fellow AMLers patience, I'll put down some of my own thoughts. Eric is right about Krakauer's first book being excellent. He was in his element there, his storytelling riveting. I'm less inclined to feel that Krakauer did such a good job doing his research on Under the Banner of Heaven. All the reviews I've read seem to have the foundations of the Mormon Church starting with Moroni delivering the plates to Joseph. Now, either the reviews are being sloppy and not doing their homework, or that is a glaring error on Krakauer's part. Since I haven't read the book I'm going out on limb to assume he doesn't bring that up, or glosses over it. Someone will have to clue me in, or I'll have to run over to library and see if the book has come in yet. The First Vision is as essential to Mormonism as the Burning Bush was to Moses leading the Children of Israel to the Promised Land. It affects all that came after it. And Moroni didn't just hand over the plates after Joseph unearthed them as instructed. He met with this being over a period of four years before he started work on The Book of Mormon. Believe this or not, you're dealing with a period of years between Joseph being a fourteen year old and him being an adult in his early twenties. Quite a stretch of time essential in the formation of the adult personality. Nothing I've read has Krakauer addressing this, and the emergence of this undercurrent of violence he is concerned with surely would have at least some underpinnings in this time period. As to the general notion he seems to put forth that religious folk in general have violent tendencies, and Mormons in particular are a simmering pot waiting to boil over, that would point out to me he hasn't spent a lot of time around us as individuals or as a people. Most of the Mormons I know tend to shun conflict of almost any sort, being almost cream puffs when they are afraid to be perceived as "inappropriate" or causing contention of any sort. There are also hotheads among us, as there are among any group, and unfortunately, murderous psychopaths as well hiding under the guise of being pious members. Some hide behind religon, and some, like an Ira Einhorn for example, will use politics and social causes to mask their crimes and put it off to being persecuted by "the establishment". Most of the people who moved in Einhorn's world never showed violent tendencies to my knowledge and I doubt Krakauer would make such a claim. He would treat them as an an abberation as Einhorn and the Laffertys are in my opinion. Do we need to acknowlege violence in our past? Especially the shame of the Mountain Meadows Massacre? Yes, we do. But as most Hasidic Jews have little resemblence to the Jews of Nazareth who were ready to throw Jesus off a cliff for being offended by what they considered to be blasphemous words, most mainstream Mormons bare not much resemblence to the Laffertys. We are perhaps closer to the situation because we do not have many centuries of time between us. Krakauer's theories are nothing new, but something that has become cliche' in western society. That is-Religion is a crutch for people who don't want to use reason or logic. That most religious people are emotionally unbalanced, or simple-minded. Some are harmless, but many are dangerous and any influence they have in society is to be discouraged and looked upon with cynicism and suspicion. The other notion I often run across is intelluctuals who posit that almost all wars and other violents episodes in history were done in the name of religion and we'd all be better off without that albatross around our necks. This ignores that the great empires of the ancient worlds were not about spreading the knowledge of their respective gods and rituals. They were mostly about conquest and plunder. There are episodes such as when Daniel's friends refused to bow down before the idol King Neb set up or the Greeks trying to force the worship of their Gods on the Jews setting in motion the Macabbean revolt. But my study of history has found these to be more the exception rather than the rule. And in recent history, the communists and nazis were definitely anti-religion, yet committed numerous atrocities. Some of that was based in idealogy, but was more about cementing power, and keeping people in line through fear and intimidation. The Soviets had an anti-semetic policy in place long after most Soviet Jews were Jews in birth only, having been denied or harassed from the opportunity to be raised as Jews in any way. Many of them who have left to go to Israel or elsewhere have had to start from the bottom up being instructed in Jewish, thought, religion and culture. There is also an attempt in some quarters, to do some revisionist history that the nazis were believing Christians. Perhaps some were, but not the majority, religion would interfere with party loyalty. Rudi Wobbe certainly puts that notion to rest in his book, co-authored with Jerry Borrowman, "Three Against Hitler". He talks about he and other Christians being harassed constantly by the nazis for having religious beliefs influencing their lives. Maria Von Trapp said the same thing in her biography, "Maria" concerning the Austrian socialists in power in her day. Part of the point of this long ramble being that in a way, Krakauer seems to be a Secularist who is as wedded to a fixed ideology as much as the mainstream Mormons or Fundamentalists that he so fears. He came to this project with a certain template in mind and crafted a book that met those preconceived expectations being unwilling to put in much that might go against that mind-set. That is intellectual lazyness, simple ignorance, sloppy research or worse, deliberate disinformation. That human beings do this is nothing new. But to see it portrayed as a well-researched treatise on the subject is a cancer that is growing in the world of books and in academia. Fortunately, there are forums like this, where people like Richard are willing to ask tough questions, and some fair-minded critics in mainstream venues who are willing to challenge this growing problem. I realize we Latter-day Saints tend to be thin-skinned when it comes to criticism of any sort, but a book like this helps explain why. It's not that I don't think the story of the Lafferty murders, Fundamentalists and how someone could get drawn into that lifestyle shouldn't be told. It cries out for it. I'd just like someone to come along and do a better, more even-handed job of it. Off my soapbox now. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: RE: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 14:52:49 -0500 --- Original Message --- >LDS arts. I can't remember whether or not I warned her that I had >sometime heard Thom Duncan express (probably on this list) his great >ambition to explore her family tragedy in some theatrical or literary >way. I have done so. _Blood Brothers_ now exists both as a play and as a screenplay. Whatever she might be like in real life, she comes off in this story (based on the public records) as a helpless victim of an abusive husband who did indeed sit quietly in the corner of the room while her two sons talked with two of their disciples about how they were going to use a consecrated knife to kill people. To her credit, she tried to stop them from leaving to no avail. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] Changing the Words (was: Is It Funnier with the Profanity?) Date: 13 Aug 2003 11:57:49 -0700 Having been doing theater in amature and educational settings since I was 12, it has been interesting to follow the saga of Neil Simon, one of the most popular playwrights among student and community theaters, and one of the most violently protective of "word-perfect" performances of his plays. Interestingly, even though Simon is defending the "funnier with profanity" line (and that's the concept you wanted to discuss), I think the truth of the matter is that Simon has become increasingly rabid over the years that NO words in his plays be changed, no matter what. A famous crisis point happened when Simon was asked, many years ago, to be a judge at a big acting contest, can't recall what it was, but I think it was on par with the Irene Ryan competition. Simon peices were well represented in the contest, but Simon became increasingly horrified by how his scenes were being indiscriminately cut and reshaped to suit the performers whims. He went ballistic, and it is a well known fact among the theatre community (but apparently NOT to the Pleasant Grove Playhouse--church members have a long history of chopping plays and films to to suit their whims--but more on that in a second) that Neil Simon NEVER approves cuts or changes to his plays. This is his standard policy, and has nothing to do with the supposed "profanity is funnier" argument. Although I have no doubt that Simon believes his plays are funniest exactly the way he wrote them, and in some cases (but not all) I also think a line can be funnier with a well-placed "shock word" (but obviously its one of the most overused crutches in comedy, and quickly tires. One case in point was my recent bludgeoning under the hammer of "Bad Boys II", a movie about as subtle as an A-bomb, but one which, it has to be admitted, had one or two lines which where hilarious with the "language". Will Smith and Martin Lawrence have just used (abused) their police perogitive to requisition a brand new cadillac to use in a car chase. In a surprise cameo, it turns out that some big NFL star was just taking the car out for a test drive to see if he wanted to buy it before the two blustery cops requisitioned his car. Since the car wasn't even his, the guy was proud and pleased to give the car over to the cops, while the car salseman, in the background, was much less excited about the prospect. Intense car-chase mayhem ensues: jumps, bumps, crashes, smashes, etc. In the midst of the action, Smith is impressed by the performance of the car they have requisitioned (read stolen). He quips to Lawrence: "So-and-so should buy this car. Well, not THIS car, cuz I'm gonna *bleep* it up, but one JUST like it!" Delivery, of course, had a lot to do with the comedy. But "I'm gonna mess this up" in the context, would be a weaker line (in a comedy sense). At any rate, I am not really one to argue for profanity, I don't like profanity, I think it is terribly overused in comedy, a cheap crutch, more often than not. But cutting plays is an interesting concept. I dealt with it at BYU a lot, in fact, Richard and I were laughing the other day about our performance of "The Foreigner" wherein we re-inserted some of Mr. Shue's words that were "sanitized". BYU audiences laughed their heads of, too. I was shocked, however, when, a year or two later, after moving to LA, I heard that the Hale Center Theater, Glendale, was doing "Foreigner" so I went to audition. I was amazed, when given sides, to see that the Hales had not just "sanitiezed" one or two words (the offending phrase being "I'm pregnant"--meaning out of wedlock--shock!), but had completely re-written the scene...without any permission of the author. Now, as a playwright, I have to say, that I am not a rabid "word-perfect" author. With very few exceptions, I don't insist that my words are perfect or should be said by actors exactly as written. As an actor, I know when some words stick in my mouth, and so when I change hats, I'm very open to an actor saying to me, "can I say it like this" (read "your line sucks, mine is better"). Most of the time, actors are right and I'm happy to oblige. I was amazed, when working with Linda Bon, that she came to rehearsals of a play I had written, not only off book, but word perfect. It was almost embarrassing to hear my words so meticulously come out of her mouth. I had been rather sloppy in the past (not with that play, thank goodness, but in general) and it taught me that I had to take more care with my dialogue, for those times when some actor really is going to say it the way you wrote it. But, in the case of community theaters re-writing scenes, where are the ethics? Actors will always slip on words, here and there, dropt lines. But It's not legal, it's not right, to change an authors intent, to re-write scenes, to alter content with impunity and without permission! And we have always (by "we" I mean in the church) played fast and loose with cultural censorship. CleanFlicks is just the most recent case in point, but I remember laughing at the audacity of the Varsity Theater at BYU chopping out scenes in popular films in the 80's in difiance (which they were later chastized for doing). We have an ethical, moral, responsibility not to do stuff like that. Maybe a film whould be better without a scene, a line, a word. But that's not our hypocritical place to do it "for" the creator. I'm proud of the Pleasant Grove theater for ASKING PERMISSION. Bravo for them. Now they can't do the play, but that is the way it should be: that play is NOT RIGHT for thier audiences. Neil Simon is crass and vulgar, always has been. He's also frequently funny, poignant and good... sometimes not. Don't like him, don't do him. I once heard a story about a (non-member) department head at a college theater department. His selection criteria for doing a play went as follows: he went through the play and cut out every instance of profantity, every ----------------- reference or scene, every objectionable element; then he went back and read the play. If there was still a story there worth telling, he put everythign back in, and did the play; if there was nothing left, he chucked the play and that was that. Yes, it does beg us to create our own body of work. And it does beg us to ask again the question "what about that movie or play that is great except for one scene or line?", but I propose that is just not a question that has any relevance. You either have influence over the artist to affect a change, ignore the one scene or line and otherwise enjoy the peice, or choose to avoid the whole play or movie entirely. Profanity may not be funnier, but if a playwright says "no cuttie" then no cuttie it is. Then again, when I say "Get baptized, dammit!", because of the contrasts of two opposing moods encapsulated within the brief phrase, it has an impact that it would not have in any other way or context. "Get baptized, will you!?" has not even remotely the same impact. Obviously, I can go to far and kill the thing, too. "Get baptized, f-word" fails miserably, not because the f-word is offensive in and of itself ("dammit" is offensive to some), but because the subtle contrast between the two opposites is skewed. The f-word is too heavy for the sentence. Its about weight and balance, just like mounting pictures on a wall, you have to keep proportion in mind in comedy. But part of comedy is about breaking taboos and bariours, surprising, shocking. Again, this can be done out of proportion, without balance and badly. And different audiences have different tolerances. Anyway, its like the old chestnut says: Dying is easy... comedy is hard. Ciao for now. Jongiorgi Enos -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: [AML] Kenneth Star and the Church of Christ Date: 13 Aug 2003 15:46:55 -0500 Wrt a recent question about Kenneth Starr's religion. He is a member of the Church of Christ. There are Churches of Christ that have nothing to do with Mormonism, completely independent, and the Church of Christ which is a break-off of the LDS church, headquartered in Independence. Which Church of Christ is a member of? That is still to be determined. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Research on Polygamy Date: 13 Aug 2003 15:35:11 -0400 Stephen Carter wrote: >On the other hand, Bennion portrays the men as lonely characters. Their lofty >leadership positions, the little time they have to spend with their wives and >families, and the fact that usually they don't have a permanent home, combine >to make them into wanderers, going from one home to the next. It's also tough >to make it as a young man in polygyny, as there is tremendous competition. >Often a woman will want to marry a man already proven in the field of >righteousness, rather than take a chance on a young, untried man. Many sons of >polygyny end up leaving the community because they can't marry. Economist David Friedman came to very similar conclusions while analyzing polygamous relationships in the "Economics of Love and Marriage" chapter of his _Price Theory_ textbook: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_Chapter_21/PThy_Cha p_21.html An excerpt: To many readers, the conclusion may seem extraordinary--how can women possibly be made better off by polygyny and men by polyandry? That reaction reflects what I described in Chapter 2 as naive price theory. Naive price theory is the theory that prices do not change. If polygyny were introduced and nothing else changed, then it seems likely that women would be worse off--except for those who prefer to share the burden of putting up with a husband. But when polygyny is introduced, something else does change; the demand curve for wives shifts up, and so does the price for wives implicit in the marriage contract. Those wives who end up with one husband get him on more favorable terms--he must bid more for a wife because of the competition of his polygynous rivals. Those who accept polygynous marriages do so because the price they are offered is sufficient to at least balance, for them, the disadvantage of sharing a husband. Eric D. Dixon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Episcopalean Revelation Date: 13 Aug 2003 14:21:32 -0600 At 08:29 PM 8/11/03 -0700, you wrote: >The source of authority in Anglicanism has always been three-fold: scripture, >tradition and reason. I've always considered reason a weak source of religious truth, because two intelligent, well-intended persons can start with the same basic information and reason out two totally opposed conclusions from it. I remember being surprised the first time I came across Eliza R. Snow's hymn which states that her reason tells her that we have a mother in Heaven. I was surprised both by her conclusion and by her considering it reasonable--I'd never heard anything about a heavenly mother in the Southern Baptist Church! It was, shall we say, a paradigm shift for me. After thinking about it, I decided it makes sense, but that I did not plan to accept it on the basis of someone's considering it unreasonable to accept the idea of single parents in Heaven. I intended to search out scriptural support for the concept, but like many of my intentions, never carried it out. It's been a long time since I read Nephi Anderson's Added Upon--does anyone remember whether he presented a Mother in Heaven as part of his literary pre-existence? barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 13 Aug 2003 14:31:33 -0600 At 12:03 AM 8/12/03 -0700, you wrote: >How does Hugh Jackman strike you guys? Yes! After seeing him play two very different roles--the scrumptious, honorable, kind-hearted duke and the intense, heroic, hairy Wolverine--I think he'd do a fine job. He has a similar look to him--facial structure, height, and so on. >Or what about Viggo Mortinson? I can't quite picture it. But what do I know? I'm not a casting director (which reminds me of an interesting experience I once had with an actor. . . . .). barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" Subject: RE: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 13 Aug 2003 15:09:37 -0600 Bios from LDSfilm.com: Matthew Modine Latter-day Saint (non-churchgoer as an adult). Born 22 March 1959, Loma Linda, California. Sometimes credited as: Matthew Avery Modine. Actor. Has received 3 Golden Globe nominations, including 1 win. Has received 2 awards at the Venice Film Festival. 1 nomination each for a Golden Satellite Award and an Independent Spirit Award. Emmy nomination for "And the Band Played On" (1993). The movies he has had a lead or major supporting role in (poster-billed roles) have grossed more than $183 million at the box office just in the U.S. IMDb bios (http://us.imdb.com/Bio?Modine,+Matthew): Youngest of 7 children born to Mark and Dolores Modine. He was raised in a tight-knit Mormon family, which was forced to move every couple of years because his father worked as a drive-in movie operator. All of the children worked in the drive-ins. After seeing a documentary about the film Oliver!, Modine decided he wanted to become an actor. After high school, he dropped out of BYU and worked several odd jobs before moving to New York in 1979. He landed a job as a chef at Au Natural in Manhattan, where he met his wife, Cari. They married a year later, and Matthew began landing roles in film, and later theatre and TV. He and his family live at Arbolay, a 100-acre farm in Upstate Millbrook, NY. Goodlooking, mild-mannered "boy next door" type whose varied performances have transcended his youthful appearance and generally placid screen persona. Raised in Utah, Modine spent his teenage years in San Diego, and paid the rent in his early adult years by digging ditches, grinding valves, and working on cars. Studying acting with Stella Adler later paid off, when the tall, boyish actor landed his first role in John Sayles'Baby, It's You (1983), playing a high-school kid. Costarring parts in Private School Robert Altman's Streamers (both 1983) and The Hotel New Hampshire (1984) followed, but it took a brilliant starring performance in Birdy (1984), as a traumatized Vietnam vet who thinks he's a bird, to make critics and audiences sit up and take notice. He starred in the youth-oriented Vision Quest (1985), then took the lead in Stanley Kubrick's challenging Full Metal Jacket (1987) and the actors' showcase Orphans (1987). His winning turn as an FBI agent in Married to the Mob (1988), with Michelle Pfeiffer, showed that Modine could handle lighter material, as well. Since then he's starred in Gross Anatomy (1989), Memphis Belle, Pacific Heights (both 1990), Wind (1992), Equinox Robert Altman's Short Cuts (as a sexually distant doctor), the made-for-TV And the Band Played On (all 1993), The Browning Version (1994), Bye Bye, Love, Fluke and Cutthroat Island (all 1995). Paul Walker Latter-day Saint. Born 12 September 1973, Glendale, California. Birth name: Paul William Walker IV. Hollywood leading man. Top-billed star in "Timeline" (2003), "The Fast and the Furious" (2001) and its sequel, "The Fast and the Furious II" (2003). 2nd-billed star in "The Skulls" (2000) and "Joy Ride" (2001). Major roles in: Varsity Blues" (1999); She's All That (1999); Pleasantville (1998); Meet the Deedles (1998); Tammy and the T-Rex (1994); Monster in the Closet (1986). In terms of box office, Walker is the top-grossing Latter-day Saint actor working today. As of 2002, the 6 movies he starred in (above-the-line billing) have grossed over $322 million at the U.S. box office. TV guest appearances include: Touched by an Angel; Who's the Boss?; Charles in Charge; Highway to Heaven; Diff'rent Strokes. IMDb bio: Began acting when he was very young. As a child, Paul starred in many commercials. In 1986, he played Professor Bennet in the movie, "Monster in the Closet" (1986). He then starred in the television series, "Throb" (1986). He also made guest appearances on several television shows including "Charles in Charge","Highway to Heaven" (1984), "Who's the Boss?" and "Diff'rent Strokes" (1978). Paul also had a role in the soap opera, "The Young and the Restless" (1973). In 1987 Paul was cast in the film "Programmed to Kill" (1987) as the character Jason, and since then he has appeared in a steady stream of movies. Paul is definently a rising star and not only does he have good looks, charm, wit and excellent acting skills, he also majored in Marine Biology at a California community college. Following is a paragraph from the LDSfilm.com home page (with some alterations made). It pretty accurately describes the LDSfilm.com policy for including a film on the site or in the box office reports (with the one additional note that the LDS connection must be in an above-the-line role.): "Aside from those asterisk-marked filmmakers (who may or may not be LDS), all of the filmmakers and actors named on this page are Latter-day Saints. With a few exceptions, all are active/practicing church members (or were while they were alive). Films have NOT been listed on this page based on any determination of church activity, but non-practicing LDS filmmakers rarely discuss their church membership in media interviews. Hence, we are unaware of them and unable to add their films to this list." I hope that clarifies things. Thomas ---------------------------- "Of course, there should be a structure, an architecture to any score. It's not a piece here and a piece there. It has to be thought out. You can't approach each cue as a separate piece of music." - Jerry Goldsmith, composer Contact info: Thomas C. Baggaley Composer 9446 Fox Hunt Drive Sandy, Utah 84092 Tel: (801) 942-3580 E-mail: thomas@baggaleymusic.com Web page: http://www.baggaleymusic.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Susan Malmrose Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:18 AM Matthew Modine is LDS? Paul Walker is too? Never knew that. What exactly is the definition of LDS for this report? Susan M --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 20 Le Divorce (NEW) 516,834 34 3 Matthew Modine (actor) 516,834 27 2 Fast 2 Furious 289,910 302 66 Paul Walker (lead actor) 125,882,195 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 13 Aug 2003 17:56:59 -0600 I vote for Viggo! Kim Madsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 13 Aug 2003 19:50:18 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- "Couple days ago, a letter to the editor in the Deseret News argued against an effort in the Utah legislature to end firing squads as a death penalty option, because Mormons run this state and we believe in blood atonement. Well, I'm a Mormon and I don't believe in blood atonement. And the evidence that it was ever an official doctrine of the Church is not strong. (In fact, it fundamentally contradicts essential Mormon understandings of Christ's atonement). But it's not difficult to trace the logic thusly: Jedediah M. Grant preached blood atonement from the pulpit. He was an apostle. When the Brethren speak by the Spirit from the pulpit, it's scripture. Therefore, we believe in blood atonement today, and forever." Lisa Tait adds: I had in my files a copy of a letter from none other than Bruce R. McKonkie refuting the doctrine of blood atonement. My husband got it when he was a student at BYU. His major was sociology and of course they were discussing the death penalty, which led to a discussion of blood atonement, and he went to his religion teacher at the time. That man had the letter in his possession and gave a copy of it to Mike. I believe the letter was addressed to him (the teacher) personally. I don't recall much of what it said except that the concept of blood atonement is invalid because it refutes the efficacy of the atonement--the only blood necessary to pay for our sins was Christ's; and we can't pay for our own sins anyway. I remember my mother approving of the execution of Gary Gilmore by firing squad on grounds that his blood had to be spilled, or something like that. There's no article on Blood Atonement in the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, of course, but it does say this (among other things) about Capital Punishment: "Capital Punishment is viewed in the doctrines of the Church to be an appropriate penalty for murder, but that penalty is proper only after the offender has been found guilty in a lawful public trial by constitutionally authorized civil authorities." Anyone who knows Mormon history knows that the background for that statement is at least partly the reports of Danites and other avenging angels of 19th century Mormon lore. But of course the Encyclopedia doesn't say so. Which doesn't mean that the stories--and the folk doctrines behind them--don't survive. Anyway--I have to keep saying "had" and "was" about the letter because I just discovered that I must have thrown it out in my last file-purging binge. I know just the file it was in and my thinking went along the lines of, "all this is available online now." Oops. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 13 Aug 2003 20:01:45 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Matthew Modine is LDS? Paul Walker is too? Never knew that. > > What exactly is the definition of LDS for this report? > I don't know about Matthew Modine, but I recently (the last 3-4 months) read an interview with Paul Walker (it was in Cosmo Girl--please don't ask me how I came to have it) where he said that he does not consider himself a Mormon anymore. He considers himself a nondenominational Christian. I have wondered about the very loose definition of 'Mormon' on these reports, too. I mean, it's interesting to know who has Mormon ties and so forth, but if an actor doesn't consider himself Mormon, should we? (The same question would certainly apply to Eliza Dushku.) I know it's hard to find a line and draw it consistently, but if we're trying to promote Mormon film it doesn't seem particularly useful to just lump anyone who's ever had any affiliation with the church into the same category with those who are trying to produce work that is specifically by, for, about, or starring Mormons. Lisa Tait PS Has anyone seen SWAT? My kids tell me there's a Mormon character, one of the cops, and some kind of running commentary by Colin Farrel about whether he's living his religion or not, mostly as pertains to the word of wisdom. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Walt Curtis" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? Date: 13 Aug 2003 22:36:32 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- > As far as the intersexual dilemma of the cross gender birth defects go, I > have no idea why these things occur. Why are some children born without arms > or legs? Why are some born deaf or blind, or with other debilitating > defects? We just have to deal with these problems like any of the other > problems brought on by the conditions of mortality. > To the question that Lisa was asking: what makes a characteristic like hair or skin color a mere variable and another characteristic like gender or sexual orientation a defect if it is not in the majority? In the past, skin color was apocryphally considered a mark of premortal fence-sitting, but that is no longer the case. There are some 3,000,000 people now living who are not "male and female". Assuming they are also created in the image of God and a beloved spirit child of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny, what is their eternal gender identity and purpose? If gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose, does that mean that there are intersexual individuals in eternity and were they so in premortality? If not, what gender were/will they be eternally? What is the basis for choices they make in mortality? How are we to deal with them? We can't simply say, "Oh, well, these three million people are exceptions and fall outside of the Plan of Salvation." Exploring such dilemmas in our writings can be a great source of provoking thoughtfulness in the hearts and minds of so many people. And since so little is known about gender and intersexuality, it could capture the attention and provide a means of achieving some our literary ends. Of course, if the ninth Article of Faith eventually results in the addition of intelligence on such topics, some literature may suddenly become more strongly classified as fanciful, while other literature may appear to have been more prophetic. Walt Curtis -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? Date: 13 Aug 2003 23:59:58 -0600 Bill Willson wrote: > From the family proclamation: > All human beings--male and female--are created in the image of God. Each > is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, > each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential > characteristic of individual pre mortal, mortal, and eternal identity > and purpose. > > That seems scriptural enough for me. As far as what that means? -- Well it > seems that Heavenly father saw the need for different roles and functions in > mortality and for that matter for life eternal to perpetuate itself. So he > made us two separately different entities, each with a definite role in the > process of procreation. A man and a woman are two separate parts of a whole, > and as such they fit together and serve God's holy purposes. Your comments don't answer the original question at all. We already know God made us male and female in mortality. The question is, does gender have meaning in the preexistence? Is it an inherent trait in the entire eternal arc of our existence, or does it first spring into existence in mortality? God actually didn't create us--we are "co-eternal" with God, as Joseph Smith said. But the family proclamation says "gender is an essential characteristic of individual PREMORTAL, mortal, and eternal indentity." If we are to accept the proclamation as a valid statement of doctrine, then we must conclude that gender is an inherent trait in the eternal scheme of things. Which makes the question very hard to answer: how do intersex types (now are these what we used to call hermaphrodites?) fit into this? It also leaves open the possibility that homosexuality may in fact be a spirit of one sex which somehow ended up n the body of the other sex--I know of at least one bishop who has concluded that this happens in his interaction with homosexual members as their bishop. If that's true. that opens up a huge can of worms. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 14 Aug 2003 00:04:50 -0600 Eric Samuelsen wrote: > Now, could the Church do more to distance itself from the fundies? It's hard to imagine how. But could the Church do more to distance itself from Jedediah M. Grant? Yes. Isn't it about time that we Mormons acknowledge that General Authorities, even Apostles, can and do make mistakes? It's not only about time, but decades overdue. > They can and do preach silly things from the pulpit. They can and do hold tight to foolish and outdated folk doctrines, or pull their ideas from some popular social theory. And some of these have directly impacted LDS art, causing pressure that, practically speaking, amounts to censorship. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Changing the Words Date: 14 Aug 2003 15:15:23 -0600 This reminds me of directing _The Fantasticks_in Dallas, Texas. I wrote Music Theatre International for permission to change the Rape song to Abduction. They didn't hesitate to allow the change. It broke my heart because I felt that it was the funniest song in the show. However, I knew that using the original song would not fly for our audience, because the word rape (although the context in the play means abduction) almost always causes an emotional response. As it turned out I was able to rewrite the rape song using abduction quite painlessly and it was still funny, because lots of people knew what it was supposed to be. They said it couldn't be done. It worked for us. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: [AML] re: Changing the Words Date: 14 Aug 2003 15:57:49 -0600 To add to my post regarding permission to change dialogue in a play. = Don't hesitate to ask, but ask early on before you pay the big bucks. = The Pleasant Grove people waited until a week before they were set to = open. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 14 Aug 2003 18:55:02 -0600 At 02:05 PM 8/13/03 -0500, you wrote: >So far I haven't anyone suggesting an actor to play >Joseph who more approximated his physical type: 6 >feet, 200 pounds, (considered porty by some accounts) >with a slightly receeding chin. My suggestion would >be John Lovitz. Bite your tongue! Jon Lovitz looks like my ex-husband. This time, Thom, you've gone too far! barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:41:09 -0600 ispwestemail1.aceweb.net (Vircom SMTPRS 2.1.258) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:39:05 -0700 Message-ID: <003f01c351f9$27bb51c0$90ac1f43@jack> Banner of Heaven_ X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list [MOD: This is a message that wound up getting caught up in the cracks. Apologies for the delay, but I think the discussion has not really moved on significantly from this point.] This matter of perspective is an important one, but not just for the = reasons that Lee Benson draws attention to. The Achilles heel of Mormon = art (to make these comments relevant to the list right off the bat) is = our inability to see ourselves the way that others see us, and then to = insist dogmatically (and impossibly) that we be perceived only as we see = ourselves in the best possible light. Perspective is a window, not a = two-way mirror. "Perspective" can't be dictated. (Someday, somebody's going to make the Colorado City movie--perhaps = along the lines of Picket Fences or Northern Exposure--and we're all = going to grumble at the "unfairness" of it all, and then belatedly ask = the question: Why didn't we make this movie?) Consider, purely as a hypothetical, the reaction of the average Utahn to = the following: A nation/state of a few million people occupying a large = and largely arid environment. The state is dominated by a single, = conservative religion, drawing in over 50 percent of the population. = Followers of that religion occupy all political offices (to the casual = onlooker it almost seems a prerequisite), and all but a handful claim = further allegiance to a single faction of one political party. Outside the capital the majority religion extends to 90 percent of the = population, giving it de facto control over all secular institutions. = And although there is much lip service given to separating church and = state functions, the casual onlooker notes again notes that the church = has built religious seminaries in immediate proximity to every public = secondary school in the state--despite the fact that no other religion = in the region could begin to compete with it in terms of cultural = influence. The state's own history reveals bloody conflicts with those apart from = the majority faith. The modern church disavows any responsibility in the = slightest for these acts of terrorism, despite its deep involvement in = all aspects of secular and religious governance at the time. In fact, = one of the "terrorists" is now revered as much a martyr as a criminal, = and has long since been officially "rehabilitated" by the church. The state loudly proclaims its allegiance to secular, constitutional = principles. In keeping with this, it has made explicitly illegal several = religious practices that once constituted the core of majority church's = theology. And yet those who continue to follow these "fundamentalist" = religious teachings--perhaps five percent of the population--do so = openly. The law is so rarely enforced as to be practically irrelevant. Now, if this were a bunch of Sikhs setting up camp in Spanish Fork we'd = be calling out the National Guard with panicked talk about our = threatened "American Way of Life." With a little tweaking it could be = Saudi Arabia, and I recall after 9/11 how "the man in the street" in = Riyadh couldn't believe that his countrymen were in any way involved: it = was all slander and propaganda. Does the man on the street in Provo = react much differently? Or is a large part of the equation also our inability to see what = everybody else sees--not necessarily agree with it, but at least = acknowledge the point (if only to admit that, yeah, that cloud does look = kinda like a bunny rabbit). Is our instinct instead to thrust out a = travel brochure and say, Don't look at that! This is who we are! Fish discover water last. And travel brochures do not make for great = art. Eugene Woodbury -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] Religious Fundamentalists as Murderers (was: Krakauer, _Banner_) Date: 14 Aug 2003 17:42:20 -0600 Like many, I've not read Krakauer's book. I did listen to Terry Gross's interview, though, and I thought it was very interesting. I've been dyin= g to saying this to someone other than my husband. All of this talk about fundamentalism being connected with violence, etc., is just ridiculous to me. A religious fundamentalist who kills is a murderer, plain and simple. Though I cannot cite any at the moment, haven't there been so many studie= s and writings on how godlessness can lead to violence? As rock music can? TV? Films? The written word? Food? Estrogen? Testosterone? Shall I = go on? A murderer is a murderer because he or she wants to kill. As a wise old wizard once said, "It is our choices...that show what we truly are..." A= s bored and lonely as I can get here in my little apartment, I cannot fatho= m what type of energy and time one must have to focus on killing to become = a murderer. I mean, when we get upset at someone and say, "I could just ki= ll them...", that's naughty, but it's totally different from getting to the point that you pray about whether or not to murder someone. I know that = the book says that Ron Lafferty basically received a revelation and that it j= ust came from God or something. They prayed about it, afterward, though, jus= t to make sure it was truly from God. Throw me a bone! "Hi, I'm an evil selfish man who elevates myself by degrading others, namely my wife and daughters, and this woman came in and messed up my plans. I want her dea= d. I've used religion as an excuse to oppress my family, it will just follow suit that it'll be my excuse for conspiring to kill." I know these thing= s are all "duh" statements, but seriously. In a world full of hundreds of religions and millions of very religious people, some with some pretty outlandish beliefs, some murderers decide to kill some innocent people in the name of religion, and that's evidence that fundamentalism lends itsel= f to violence. The truth is, when someone craves blood, they'll kill and they'll use whatever excuse sounds good to them. I know it's farce, but just think of the song, "He had it coming" from Chicago. What is fundamentalism anyway? The Merriam Webster dictionary describes = it as follows: 1 a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasiz= ing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching b : the beliefs of this movement c : adherence to such beliefs 2 : a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a se= t of basic principles Hmmm... sounds like most groups of religious people I've ever met, read about, or heard about. So, the difference between a fundamentalist and a "normal" religious person is that one of them blends into "regular" socie= ty better? The first group is incapable of reason or rationalization? Or, = is it just a term that gently chides the said religious group as "going a little overboard with their beliefs?" Anyway, this is really just a tirade, but after listening to Terry Gross'= s interview with Krakauer, I imagined Dan Lafferty as a young man, before a= ll of the tragic mistakes he made in his life, feeling very small, like we a= ll do sometimes. He tried to fill his obviously vast emotional gaps with staunch faithfulness to his religion, and the craving just grew and grew = and grew. The exhilaration of certain polygamist practices (from the male po= int of view) of course must have been great. To be able to strip another hum= an being of power like that must be thrilling in some way. Ron made a scien= ce of it, and to imagine that someone who ought to be one of the oppressed would actually work to free others and defy such authority is astounding. She was not a threat to the Lord's work, but a threat to the work of oppression, so she had to die. No, I don't care if you decide to move into a tent for the rest of your l= ife because Lehi lived in tent for awhile. Make up whatever interesting beli= efs you want to about God, or subscribe to whomever you like. Or pretend tha= t God, TV, the written word, food, testosterone, etc., don=92t even exist. = If you want to kill, oppress, or rape, you will find a way, with or without religion. By the way, I hope I got the Lafferty brothers' names right. You know, I= 'd like to see someone write a book about murderers (minus perfect detail) o= f all flavors. Let's find evidence that being a murderer has very little t= o do with where you grew up, what type of music you listened to, what relig= ion you were or were not, or whether or not you ate your vegetables as a chil= d? Let's prove that murder is a choice, not an outcome. Yet, the book would= be a huge downer and wouldn't be any better than one of the Scream films (an= d it would certainly be less funny). So, scratch that idea. Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] re: ROWLING, J.K., _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ (Review) Date: 14 Aug 2003 18:08:20 -0600 Eric said: >I absolutely love Harry V. I think it's the greatest book in the series. I've been reading it aloud to my children, and >it's been a ball; I get to come up with new character voices for Tonks (sort of Toni Colletteish), for Bellatrix (definitely >Margaret Hamilton: the Wicked Witch of the West), Kingsley Shacklebolt (James Earl Jones) and best of all for Delores >Umbridge (Carol Channing). But what I love about the new Harry Potter IS in fact the LDSness of it. I figure you're probably thinking voices for characters, Eric, but here's my cast of some book 5 characters (by look and voice, not necessarily acting talent): Tonks - Toni Collette or Emma Chambers (if you go younger - she played Hugh Grant's sister in Notting Hill) Mad Eye Moody - Christopher Lloyd Bellatrix Lestrange - Polly Walker (can't you just imagine her being blissfully beautiful and ruthless?) Kingsley Shacklebolt - D.B. Woodside (played principal Wood in last "Buffy" season) Umbridge - Zelda Rubinstein (played the clairvoyant in Poltergeist I and II) Love, Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? Date: 14 Aug 2003 21:41:26 -0700 This is one of those issues that can't fit into a neat little box and be easily explained. For those of us who do believe the doctrines of the Church there are still many unanswered questions surrounding mind-boggling things like this. In believing gender is a part of a premortal identity does that include the existence as an intelligence before being organized into a spirit entity? My husband once posited the idea to me that we might have had a choice in picking gender before existing as spirits. If that were the case, could it be that some did not choose wisely for themselves and that causes complications on earth? I'm NOT saying this is the case, or that I agree with my husband-just putting it forth. It would make for something interesting in our literature. A few years ago, one of the news magazine programs did a piece on children who had been gender-reassigned at birth because of either deformity or surgical blunder. Most of the time, these were males reassigned as females. The families and doctors found that although every attempt was made to raise these children as female, both culturally and medically, the children always displayed the habits of boys. Rough play, risk taking, spatial development, etc. They had little interest in dolls and other "girl stuff" They were "tomboys". And these were kids raised in times like the 1960s when for the most part, traditional roles were still ingrained, especially in middle class families. As adolescents and adults these people went through emotional hell. Finally, as medical technology permitted, most of them were reassigned back to their original gender. Some that gave interviews in shadow were furious with the doctors for doing what they considered to be playing God. Now, when doctors are faced with this dilemma, they do wait and carefully watch the child and see what traits they seem to display and how the body develops, despite the genital anomalies. At least one child they showed is a girl, despite having what seems to be some male genitalia, (they tried to be descritively vague, family viewing, I suppose). She is athletic, but still seems to favor female behavior for the most part. They also have to keep certain chemicals and enzymes balanced for some of these individuals. But, at least by waiting, the child seemed to be a more stable individual. For an LDS family, this stuff would be mind blowing-not something you leaned about in Sunday School, Priesthood or Relief Society. It would be a real test of faith and a riveting story of how one would cope with it. Certainly news stories don't tell all aspects of something like this, and depending on the show and the reporter, it can be slanted a certain way. But, I don't remember any conclusion other than how hard it is on families, and how the parents and doctors need to work together for the benefit of the child's best interests. It brought up some interesting thoughts for me. It seemed to indicate that our brains are hardwired in some ways, including gender identity, despite the efforts to change that with surgery or homones. That could bolster the assertion many gay people have put forth about same-sex attraction being hardwired in their brains. But it would also contradict the claims of some of the more radical feminists that men and women are exactly the same, they are no different other than genitalia, it's only society and culture that insists on them being different. I always thought the last idea was absurd in many ways. Although we certainly experience directions to certain roles as males and females, especially in LDS culture, I always knew a basic truth: Men and Women are different. And I always wanted to add: Thank Heaven! I like being a woman. The only thing I ever objected to was the notion some in society and the Church assumed that somehow men were superior. I never thought that or believed it, even when I was a small child. All of this would make for elements of a thought-provoking work. I wonder if the average member of the Church would even want to approach such ideas whatever form of media they might take. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sam Brown Subject: [AML] Ken Starr Date: 15 Aug 2003 07:31:29 -0400 Hello, Church of Christ is the modern heir of the Campbellites, who, far from being a Mormon splinter group, are in fact the source of the first anti-Mormon book, published shortly after the founding of the church, and written by Alexander Campbell, one of the more important American theologians of the 19th century. Starr belongs to that group. We had the name first, while they were the Disciples or the Campbellites, but we quickly gave up the name, they took it, and we mostly forgot about each other (though they continue to be avid Bible readers and know well how heretical Mormonism is vis-a-vis traditional Protestantism). Interestingly, Sidney Rigdon, and "The Family" (the Kirtland core of Mormonism and the basis for the first attempts at Mormon communal living, ie the Law of Consecration) were a Campbellite congregation before their defection to the "Mormonite" movement. Starr as a "Mormon" is a tad less of a stretch than Steve Martin (or Eddie Murphy), but not that much less. -- Yours, Samuel Brown, MD Massachusetts General Hospital sam@vecna.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Changing the Words Date: 15 Aug 2003 09:22:31 -0500 Another alternative would have been to NOT ask for permission. It's not like anyone in the Valley would complain to Neil Simon about the lack of the f-words. Thom Duncan --- Original Message --- >To add to my post regarding permission to change dialogue in a play. = >Don't hesitate to ask, but ask early on before you pay the big bucks. = >The Pleasant Grove people waited until a week before they were set to = >open. > >Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 15 Aug 2003 06:58:20 -0700 Jongiorgi Enos asks: >How does Hugh Jackman strike you guys? >Or what about Viggo Mortinson? Or what about an actual Smith descendent? I've met two -- of the Hyrum variety -- and in both instances, without knowing their ascendents, I remarked on their astonishing physical resemblance to Joseph Smith. Which is how I discovered they were descendents of Hyrum Smith. G'head and reject the idea out of hand. But mebbe, just mebbe, I'm onto something. --lmg --------- OUR NEWEST WRITING PROJECT: Homeschooling Step by Step, Prima Publishing, Spring 2002. Everything you need to know about how to homeschool legally and effectively! How does your state rank? What's your child's learning style? What about college? Find teaching tips, teaching strategies, and more than 100 solutions to homeschooling's toughest problems! --------- A message from LauraMaery (Gold) Post Web site: E-mail reply: --------- . -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKAUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 15 Aug 2003 10:24:48 -0500 >Lisa Tait adds: > >I had in my files a copy of a letter from none other than Bruce R. McKonkie >refuting the doctrine of blood atonement. Ironically, the belief that Blood Atonement is a modern Mormon doctrine can be laid at the feet of BRM. Before the publication of Mormon Doctrine, I suspect few Saints had ever heard of it. So here we have the surrealistic case of an apostle refuting a belief that he otherwise seems to promote in his own writing. I have an acquaintance who received a letter from Boy K. Packer stating that a belief in Evolution is entirely an individual matter. The letter was sparked by Elder Packer giving a talk about Evolution in which he very clearly gave the exact opposite impression about Evolution. I've also got a copy of the infamous letter that Bruce R. McConkie wrote to Eugene England wherein the Apostle stated that Brigham Young was flat out wrong in his teachings about Adam-God. I wish these little private refutations could be made public and receive as much press as the other POV's do. It would make Gospel Doctrine class less painful for some of us, when somebody brings up the Church's "teachings" on Evolution or mouths the phrase, "The Prophet said..." and then supplies some information that neither he nor any of his predecessors ever said. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Gardner" Subject: Re: [AML] Changing the Words Date: 15 Aug 2003 08:38:54 -0700 >Jongiorgi Enos writes: He quips to Lawrence: "So-and-so should buy >this car. Well, not THIS car, cuz I'm gonna *bleep* it up, but one JUST >like >it!" Delivery, of course, had a lot to do with the comedy. But "I'm gonna >mess this up" in the context, would be a weaker line (in a comedy sense). Well said. I very much agree. I thought of one obvious thing to add. Will Smith can get away with a line like that while some actors cannot. I don't act, but if I did, that line would come out so stiff that it might be funny for a whole different set of reasons-- or more likely it would flop. (As a cop I sometimes just consider language like that "technical police jargon") No? My wife doesn't buy that either. bill gardner wbgardner.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] Monster in the Closet Date: 15 Aug 2003 10:26:11 -0600 >Paul Walker - In 1986, he played Professor Bennet in the movie, "Monster in the Closet" (1986). Wanna have a great party with friends? I highly recommend this blissfully bad movie. It's right up there with The Initiation of Sarah and Congo (though I think this one is actually supposed to be funny). Anyway, as one of my favorite cartoon characters would say, "It's so bad, it's brilliant!" Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: RE: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 15 Aug 2003 11:30:32 -0500 --- Original Message --- >Films have NOT been listed on this page >based on any determination of church activity, Nor should they ever be, imo. If a person self- identifies as Mormon, that should be enough for the rest of us. Because, even if all these folks were active Mormon, wouldn't there still be distinctions to be drawn (assuming was, for instance, loyal only to active Mormon artists)? One could go nuts trying to draw distinctions on the supposed "rigtheousness" of a Mormon actor. It's just better left between that person and their Bishop. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 15 Aug 2003 12:24:57 -0500 --- Original Message --- >The First Vision is as essential to Mormonism as the Burning Bush was >to Moses leading the Children of Israel to the Promised Land. It is now but not at first. For the first generation of Mormon converts, the First Vision was unknown. The Book of Mormon was THE vision that started it all. In that fact at least, Krukauer is accurate. The First Vision was virtually unknown to most church member until somewhere around the late 30's, if I recall correctly. >Quite a stretch of time essential in the formation of the adult personality. >Nothing I've read has Krakauer addressing this, and the emergence of >this undercurrent of violence he is concerned with surely would have >at least some underpinnings in this time period. I don't see that he's required to. He's not writing a history of the CHURCH per se. He seems to find evidence for his thesis in Joseph's and Brigham's later teachings so the details about Joseph's youth would seem to be non essential. >Most of the Mormons I know tend to shun conflict of almost any >sort, being almost cream puffs when they are afraid to be >perceived as "inappropriate" or causing contention of any sort. So you are unaware apparently of the high incidence of spouse abuse among the Saints? What is spouse abuse if not men with simmering anger waiting to boil over? >He would treat them as >an an abberation as Einhorn and the Laffertys are in my opinion. You did mention this as your opinion, which is good, because you really don't know how K would treat the other story you mention. I guess we'll just have to wait to see, in the event that K writes another book on that subject to see if he really has this hidden agenda to bash religion. >But my study of history has found these to be more the exception >rather than the rule. And in recent history, the communists and nazis >were definitely anti-religion, yet committed numerous atrocities. They were anti religion but had all the earmarks of religious fanatics. Communism instead of Christianity, that is to say. They had a different religion which they abused, just like the Lafferty's abused Mormonism. Unfettered ideology is the real problem, not religion per se. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03 Date: 15 Aug 2003 12:56:20 -0400 [MOD: An interesting broader question here (among other comments) about how being LDS may, or may not, impact an acting career, and vice versa.] Lisa Tait wrote: >question would certainly apply to Eliza Dushku.) I know >it's hard to find a line and draw it consistently, but >if we're trying to promote Mormon film it doesn't seem >particularly useful to just lump anyone who's ever had >any affiliation with the church into the same category >with those who are trying to produce work that is >specifically by, for, about, or starring Mormons. I don't think the purpose of AML-List is promotion so much as analysis and discussion. I'm interested in how Mormonism impacts art and literature regardless of whether the artists, or characters, currently consider themselves practicing, orthodox Mormons. For example, Ryan Gosling said in at least one interview that his Mormon upbringing helped him understand some of the themes in _The Believer_, about a Jewish neo-Nazi youth: http://www.jordanbeswick.com/000142.html Raised Mormon in Cornwall, Ontario, Gosling=20 (who now calls himself "religious but=20 nondenominational") says his background made=20 it easier for him to grasp one of The=20 Believer's main themes=97the inconsistencies at=20 the heart of religious faith. "My parents=20 were more Mormon than I was, but it did help=20 me understand. I see how happy it makes my=20 mother and sister, and I think it's=20 beautiful. Maybe I'm too selfish, or I'm=20 jealous of their humility=97that somebody can=20 say, yeah, it doesn't make sense but I'm=20 going to believe it anyway." It's at least of interest when formerly Mormon artists discuss their Mormon background -- but I'm interested even when they don't. It will always be an influence to some degree. And this could be an interesting question to discuss: What is it about success in Hollywood that drives actors to distance themselves from the church? It doesn't always happen, but we have ready examples in Ryan Gosling, Paul Walker, Eliza Dushku, Matthew Modine, Aaron Eckhart (?), Jewel Kilcher, etc. Is there a level of secular artistic success that makes church membership particularly perilous? Did the entertainment industry even have anything to do with their departure from activity, or would it likely have happened in another profession as well? >PS Has anyone seen SWAT? My kids tell me there's a=20 >Mormon character, one of the cops, and some kind of=20 >running commentary by Colin Farrel about whether he's=20 >living his religion or not, mostly as pertains to the=20 >word of wisdom. Colin Farrell's character works for awhile with a guy who says he converted to Morminism when he married. He doesn't want Colin to tell his wife that he's been drinking Dr Pepper, because as a Mormon he's not allowed to ingest any mind-altering substances. Later, Colin points out to him that he's cheating on his wife with fast food. Chastened, the guy tosses away his burger, fries and cola... I know it's a common perception for non-Mormons to think we can't drink caffeinated soda-pop, but is it really that common within the church? I wouldn't drink Coke when I was a little kid, and I knew a couple of students at BYU who wouldn't drink it, but as far as I'm concerned it's a myth that's been decidedly demolished. Eric -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "LauraMaery (Gold) Post" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? Date: 15 Aug 2003 10:11:29 -0700 OK, I've been keeping quiet on this discussion, but I can't let this pass. >There are some 3,000,000 people now living who are not "male and female". >Assuming they are also created in the image of God and a beloved spirit >child of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and >destiny, what is their eternal gender identity and purpose? Next week I'm going to be sitting by the hospital bedside of my best friend since childhood. She is afflicted with a syndrome called MRKH (See for gruesome details), placing her firmly in the "I" category of GLBTI. She finds the grouping together offensive and dehumanizing. Unlike GLBT people, she was born with a physical deformity, a deformity that means she faces medical issues -- including her related surgery next week -- that GLBT people have no experience with. The issue that has traumatized her since the age of 15, when her vaginal agenesis was discovered, is that she is unable to have children. This is the issue that has defined her life. A first husband who refused to adopt, and a second husband who was uninterested in adopting have left her childless. She's compensated by becoming incredibly successful in her professional life. But a misread ultrasound several months back -- where a technician and a doctor misinformed her that she actually DOES have female reproductive organs -- left her devasted about her entire existence. "I've always told myself I didn't want children anyway," she told me in tears, "until they said maybe I COULD have had children. Now I don't know what anything in my life has ever meant." That 3 million number you quote is peopled mostly by folks like my friend -- people who have a gender but not genitalia. Rarely, they have genitalia that doesn't match their chromosomes -- which used to involve medical soothsaying, but which is no longer a mystery given the state of modern genetic science. People like my friend face physiological difficulties (agenesis generally comes with other organ malformations, apart from the difficulties or impossibilities of intimate relations). But the challenges "I" people face aren't comparable -- or even similar -- to those faced by GLBT people. She doesn't wonder what she is. She wonders -- like most infertile people -- who she could have been if she'd been able to parent. Grouping people with physical malformations together with those whose sexual attractions are nonnormative is political, not scientific. It's also a form of bigotry, and is obnoxious to those who don't wish to be so grouped. So be careful in your writing about too easily accepting the political designations of the strident. Sometimes -- possibly even most times -- the nonpolitical will consider you a bigot. --lmg, forcing, but finding, a literary connection. --------- OUR NEWEST WRITING PROJECT: Homeschooling Step by Step, Prima Publishing, Spring 2002. Everything you need to know about how to homeschool legally and effectively! How does your state rank? What's your child's learning style? What about college? Find teaching tips, teaching strategies, and more than 100 solutions to homeschooling's toughest problems! --------- A message from LauraMaery (Gold) Post Web site: E-mail reply: --------- . -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 15 Aug 2003 11:14:38 -0600 I'm voting for Gary Oldman. If that doesn't work, nos. 2 and 3 would be Stallone or else Vincet Price (oh, wait, he already did that, adn he's dead - well, there's always CGI) not *entirely* serious. --ivan wolfe -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] What Is Gender? Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:11:11 -0600 [MOD: I'm allowing Bill to clarify his original point here. However, I feel the need to emphasize again that the purpose of this discussion is to share various ways of looking at this issue from an LDS context--including (hopefully) ways it could be included in literature--not to debate doctrine.] ----- Original Message ----- > Bill Willson wrote: > > > From the family proclamation: > > All human beings--male and female--are created in the image of God. Each > > is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, > > each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential > > characteristic of individual pre mortal, mortal, and eternal identity > > and purpose. > > > > That seems scriptural enough for me. As far as what that means? -- Well it > > seems that Heavenly father saw the need for different roles and functions in > > mortality and for that matter for life eternal to perpetuate itself. So he > > made us two separately different entities, each with a definite role in the > > process of procreation. A man and a woman are two separate parts of a whole, > > and as such they fit together and serve God's holy >>purposes. > > Your comments don't answer the original question at all. We already know > God made us male and female in mortality. The question is, does gender > have meaning in the preexistence? Is it an inherent trait in the entire > eternal arc of our existence, or does it first spring into existence in > mortality? God actually didn't create us--we are "co-eternal" with God, > as Joseph Smith said. **** What he said was: "The fundamental elements of life within man are coveal with God." [That is to say they are as old as God in duration and can neither be created or destroyed as they are eternal.] In the premortal existence he created our eternal souls from these fundamental elements, and each of us received a portion of his eternal spirit, and we were endowed with unique spiritual gifts from him. At that time our gender and the full measure of our creation were established. **** > > But the family proclamation says "gender is an essential characteristic > of individual PREMORTAL, mortal, and eternal indentity." If we are to > accept the proclamation as a valid statement of doctrine, then we must > conclude that gender is an inherent trait in the eternal scheme of > things. > > Which makes the question very hard to answer: how do intersex types (now > are these what we used to call hermaphrodites?) fit into this? It also > leaves open the possibility that homosexuality may in fact be a spirit > of one sex which somehow ended up n the body of the other sex--I know of > at least one bishop who has concluded that this happens in his> interaction with homosexual members as their bishop. If that's true. > that opens up a huge can of worms. > > -- > D. Michael Martindale > I respectfully beg to differ. My comments do answer the question, it seems to me that D, failed to finish reading my comments and misread the portion of my post he did comment on. ____ Heavenly father saw the need for different roles and functions in mortality and for that matter **for life eternal to perpetuate itself.** ____ Assuming that the scriptures pertaining to the nature of eternal life and the necessity for *seed forever* (D&C 132:19) is concerned. The rest is a matter of birth defects and each individual needs to figure out how to compensate and fit in as best they can, in order to fulfill the full measure of their creation. This world is not a perfect creation, and neither are we. God left the job of perfecting ourselves and the world he gave us, up to us. This is our job, and part of the full measure of our creation. God loves us, and I'm sure he wouldn't try to confuse and make the meaning of life even more complicated than it is, by throwing in more than two genders. When physical traits and characteristics seem blurred and slightly out of focus, it just means we have a little more to do as far as adapting to the individual situation goes. All that is needed is more understanding and a lot more thoughtfulness. As far as a spirit of a pre mortal female ending up in the physical body of a mortal male, I think that is a pretty far fetched can of worms indeed, and it may be the subject matter for a science fiction novel, but in reality I think it's a bad joke, of rather dubious origin. Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Aagard Subject: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks (was: Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03) Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:00:13 -0700 (PDT) [MOD: This is vaguely related to being on-topic, I suppose, as it has to do with cultural perceptions both inside and outside the LDS community about what it means to be Mormon. But let's keep it at that, shall we? A sharing of perceptions, not a debate over doctrine/policy.] Eric Dixon wrote: > > I know it's a common perception for non-Mormons to > think we can't drink > caffeinated soda-pop, but is it really that common > within the church? I > wouldn't drink Coke when I was a little kid, and I > knew a couple of > students at BYU who wouldn't drink it, but as far as > I'm concerned it's a > myth that's been decidedly demolished. > If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated drinks? Mary Aagard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Colin Douglas Subject: Re: [AML] Ken Starr Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Who is the "we" who had the name first? I lost the antecedent.---Colin Douglas Sam Brown wrote:Hello, Church of Christ is the modern heir of the Campbellites, who, far from being a Mormon splinter group, are in fact the source of the first anti-Mormon book, published shortly after the founding of the church, and written by Alexander Campbell, one of the more important American theologians of the 19th century. Starr belongs to that group. We had the name first, while they were the Disciples or the Campbellites, but we quickly gave up the name, they took it, and we mostly forgot about each other (though they continue to be avid Bible readers and know well how heretical Mormonism is vis-a-vis traditional Protestantism). [snip] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:40:28 -0700 There is more to acting that looking the part. It's called ACTING. That's half (read: 90%) of the Church's problem when they cast Joseph Smith. They cast somebody who LOOKS the part. Nuff' said. Find me a descendant of JS who looks the part and is also both a professional actor and a proficiant actor (success doesn't mean you're good), and then he must also qualify in the marketing department: he must be enough of an identifyable name that it attracts audiences. In my survey so far, I haven't met a woman yet, my wife included, who didn't swoon just a little bit when I mentioned those two names. She particularly finds Viggo hunky. So these guys fit the bill. So what if the exactness of JS particulars doesn't fit. It's a movie. Anyway, we're a long way from casting RD's "Prophet" but the church is currently looking to cast Joseph for the film that will eventually replace "Testaments". Could be they're interested (as in the past) with a looker who maybe can't act so much. I'll pass your suggestion along to Alissa at Church Casting. Jon Enos -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Lee Subject: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 15 Aug 2003 15:56:13 -0700 (PDT) [MOD: As a question of whether General Authorities do or don't make mistakes, and when, this is definitely off-topic for AML-List. However... There's an issue of cultural perceptions here, as Matthew points out, that is really very significant for Mormon letters. So: Let us NOT enter into a discussion of when, or whether, General Authorities and others make mistakes. However, I do invite list members to share their observations of the perceptions in this area among Church members--in a spirit of sharing, not debating. That can include experiences and statements--not so much from Church history, but what we've observed in our own wards. Think of it as research.] I must be missing something. When did General Authorities stop acknowledging that they make mistakes? I'm confident that if any General Authority were asked if he made mistakes he would respond with "Yes". I don't know of any scriptural promises that they will not make mistakes. Nor do I recall having ever read that an Apostle or any other General Authority has said they do not make mistakes. The Doctrine and Covenants records the errors and sins committed by a number of Church leaders including Joseph Smith. Not to far into The Book of Mormon the prophet Lehi is called to repentance. I've heard remarks made at General Conference by President Kimball and President Hinckley that they have been inspired by the conference talks and have personally resolved to do better. Certainly that indicates recognition of their faults. Beyond that I assume that from time to time General Authorities are reproved "with sharpness" (D&C 121:42) by their leaders. Just because it doesn't appear in the newspapers doesn't mean it doesn't happen. If it did make it to the press more often what good would that bring about? The revelations on the organization of the Church, as I understand them, reveal the power of quorums and councils and their ability to obtain the will of the Lord concerning His Church. Every revelation that affects any organized body of members must be sustained for the action to be of full force. Whether it is the sustaining of a Deacons Quorum President or the President of the Church. This is where the promises are, so in my mind whether or not General Authorities, when acting as individuals, make mistakes, in public or private, really has very little bearing on the stability of the Church. For me. But please help me understand where this idea of errorless General Authorities is coming from. As shocking as it sounds to me must be a prevalent thought for it to have made it past the moderators without comment. Matthew R. Lee -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] DM News: Mormon Movie Madness Date: 15 Aug 2003 16:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Friday, August 15, 2003 =20 Mormon movie madness=20 By Nicole Warburton Deseret Morning News It started with one. In March 2000, Richard Dutcher's "God's Army" stormed Utah theater box offices, earning $88,584 in just three days. The film, which cost $300,000 to make, went on to gross a total of $2.6 million before going to video. This fall, six LDS-themed films are planned for theatrical release, and at least two more are scheduled for early next year. "The power of the niche market is very much at the forefront," said=20 Mary Jane Jones, of Excel Entertainment. "So far, we've done a good job of showing that there is a market for these niche films . . . films that speak to a specific audience." Excel's niche is movies, videos, audio CDs and other materials that are LDS-oriented =97 something the entertainment industry has noticed. "I think people take us seriously within the industry as a whole,"=20 said Jones. "The numbers speak for themselves." According ACNielsen EDI Inc. =97 a company that compiles box-office statistics =97 Excel ranked eighth in the nation for limited-release film distribution in 2002. Excel released "God's Army," "Brigham City," "The Other Side of Heaven" in fairly quick succession in 2000 and 2001, and "Charly" in 2002. Other films, including "Out of Step," "The Singles Ward" and "Handcart" were released in 2002, followed by "The R.M." in January of this year. Together, all those movies earned a total of $11 million, according to Jeff Simpson, president and CEO of Excel. He added that $9 million "has gone through (Excel's) doors." Though none of the later films has quite matched the millions earned by "God's Army" and "The Other Side of Heaven," there is no question that the market for Mormon movies is booming. A quick glance at www.ldsfilm.com, which follows movies made by and about LDS Church members, reveals more than 30 announced or rumored Mormon films. And the filmmakers themselves anticipate that 2003 will be a defining year for LDS cinema. =20 "This is the year that is really going to make the difference," said Ryan Little, director of "Saints and Soldiers," a World War II drama scheduled to open in Utah theaters in early 2004. (He also directed "Out of Step" and was director of photography on "The Singles Ward," "The R.M." and the upcoming "The Home Teachers.") "This is the year that's going to say, 'This genre has legs or this=20 genre needs to go away,' " Little said. He added a cautionary note, however. "I think that it's kind of neat that people are doing (LDS-oriented films). I think the danger is when everyone kind of gets excited and jumps on the wave and tries to create pictures. What happens is, you get a broad selection of quality level. . . . And, if LDS films do bad, or if a bunch of films come out consecutively that are poor quality or a bad story or a bad script or whatever, I wonder if the intended audience will say 'You know what, I think I've just had enough of that.'" "I think there are potentially eight or nine Mormon films coming out=20 between now and January," said Kurt Hale, director of "The Singles Ward,"=20 "The R.M." and "The Home Teachers," which opens Jan. 9. "So, I think this=20 year is going to be a very interesting year, because not all of them will be successful =97 and mine may be one of those." Hale added, "I have a feeling there's going to be some Mormon=20 independents that will be squeezed out pretty quick this year." Simpson =97 a former executive at Disney Studios =97 said he has been approached by most of the LDS filmmakers releasing films this fall. "I think, not just in Mormon movies, but in the whole movie business in general, you'll see some good performers and some bad performers. . . . With eight films, not everyone will perform as well as the others." And what's the quality level of the films he has seen so far? "I=20 have seen some of them and parts of others. . . . I think we'll see a maturing and a thinning all at the same time." For Simpson, that "maturing and thinning" is exciting. "It=20 ultimately comes down to if they're good, well-told and well-crafted," he=20 said. "That's the evolution that's exciting to watch." Meanwhile, the man who started it all is getting ready to make his=20 third film. Richard Dutcher, who directed and starred in "God's Army" and=20 "Brigham City," announced with Simpson in April 2001 that he would film a=20 biography of Joseph Smith, titled "The Prophet." But financing fell apart. Still, Dutcher is optimistic and says he is actively trying to pull together a budget for that film. "Hopefully I'll be shooting that this coming spring, and we'll be set," he said. "Some people have said ('The Prophet') is on the back burner, but that's not true, it's on the front burner. I have two front burners on my stove, so I can keep it on the front burner. And then, I'm=20 also working on a sequel to 'God's Army' that I hope to shoot within four=20 to five months." Dutcher has strong feelings about the genre he started and is also optimistic about the future of LDS films. "It's an exciting little genre, it really is," he said. "And I think people really don't understand how healthy it is. People feel too much anxiety about the poor films that come along." According to Dutcher, even bad films can be good for the Mormon-movie genre. "I think even if some film that's so poorly made that it's offensive to all of us comes out, I don't think even that is going to affect the market because there's just a pretty constant niche (audience) out there that will go see these films. And, I think that if a bad one comes along, they'll just forget about it, and it will make them want a good one even more." When a niche film does poorly at a theater, however, it makes it more difficult for the next film to get in, Dutcher added. "And that could be one thing that could be a challenge for us is, if a few films go out and do poorly =97 whether because they're poor films or because they're poorly marketed or whatever. Then that causes us to have to negotiate a little harder with the theatre chains in order to get the films in there. "And the reason why the doors were open after 'God's Army' was because it did extremely well. And so, the theatre chains are in the business of making money, so they wanted anything else that could bring in that kind of an audience, and so they were open to whatever came along and now they're getting a little more discriminating." However, Dutcher also feels that the market for LDS films can only improve. "I have absolutely no anxieties about the economic stability of this genre. Because there is enough of an audience there, if you make your films for the right price, if you don't overspend, then you're going to do well in that market. And, I think if it's an honest story, if it's very straight-forward, very honestly and sincerely told, then it will attract other people. "We'll just try to ignore the really bad movies and really celebrate the great ones, and 10 years from now maybe we'll have our own big studio, cranking out our own product with a lot of experienced filmmakers. . . . "We have this incredible potential to provide world cinema something that they don't already have =97 which is spiritual cinema." LDS-themed films SCHEDULED FOR FALL RELEASE "Suddenly Unexpected" (special screenings in Houston theaters) "The Work and the Story," Aug. 29 (limited digital-video screenings) "The Book of Mormon Movie, Vol. 1: The Journey," Sept. 12 "Day of Defense," Oct. 10 "Best Two Years," Oct. 10 "Pride and Prejudice," fall 2003 =20 SCHEDULED FOR WINTER 2004: "The Home Teachers," Jan. 9 "Saints and Soldiers," early 2004 ALSO "The Legend of Johnny Lingo," Aug. 29 Cost-to-gross earnings for LDS-themed films * Cost includes marketing costs; gross is U.S. box-office earnings "God's Army" (2000) =97 Cost: $300,000 =97 Gross: $2.6 million =20 "The Other Side of Heaven" (2001) =97 Cost: $7 million =97 Gross: $4.7 million *(Played theatrically in every state but Rhode Island and West=20 Virginia. Disney Home Video distributed on VHS and DVD.) =20 "Brigham City" (2001) =97 Cost: $900,000 =97 Gross: $905,073 =20 "The Singles Ward" (2002) =97 Cost: $500,000 =97 Gross: $1.25 million =20 "Handcart" (2002) =97 Cost: $300,000 =97 Gross: $98,666 =20 "Jack Weyland's Charly" (2002) =97 Cost: $950,000 =97 Gross: $813,685 =20 "Out of Step" (2002) =97 Cost: $700,000 =97 Gross: $80,000 =20 "The R.M." (2003) =97 Cost: $500,000 =97 Gross: $1.05 million to date E-MAIL: nwarburton@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] DM News: Producers Noah Date: 15 Aug 2003 16:26:40 -0700 (PDT) > Friday, August 15, 2003 >=20 > Producers felt Noah was right for Nephi=20 > By Jody Genessy > Deseret Morning News > When the first motion-picture movie based on the Book of > Mormon=20 > comes out next month, some viewers might recognize the actor > playing=20 > Nephi. He was Secret Service Agent No. 2 in last year's TV movie > "The=20 > Brady Bunch in the White House" and was the bicycle messenger in > the=20 > Jackie Chan film "The Tuxedo." >=20 > Noah Danby >=20 > Then again, considering those films' performance, perhaps no > one=20 > will recognize him. > He's been Noah, too, but that wasn't an acting part. It's > his name =97=20 > Noah Danby. > Danby's resume also includes two stints on a Showtime > cable-TV=20 > series "Queer as Folk," which, as the title suggests, is centered > around=20 > gay life. Danby appeared =97 at times with zero clothing =97 as > "Tattoo" and=20 > "Captain Astro." > Not surprisingly, while those roles are included on his > personal Web=20 > site, www.noahdanby.com, you won't find them on his bio at=20 > www.bookofmormonmovie.com. > The "Book of Mormon Movie" filmmakers knew Danby had been in > "Queer=20 > as Folk" when he auditioned for the role of Nephi. They just > didn't know=20 > the extent of his role, according to marketing director Lisa > Rogers. And=20 > they didn't think it was a big deal anyway. > The 6-foot-3, 225-pound Toronto native impressed them so > much that=20 > they picked him out of a pool of 1,000 potential Nephis. > He's also among the minority of actors on the film who > aren't=20 > members of the LDS Church. > "We took his role very, very seriously," Rogers said. "We > needed to=20 > find someone who fit the bill to play Nephi, with all the > qualifications =97=20 > and he was perfect." > Rogers calls him a "gentle giant," and after seeing how hard > Danby=20 > worked on the film, how diligently he researched the character of > Nephi,=20 > and how well he played the part, the filmmakers firmly stand > behind their=20 > man. > "It breaks my heart to think people might talk trash about > him,"=20 > Rogers said. "He was wonderful. He did a great performance." > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > E-MAIL: jody@desnews.com > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > World & Nation + Utah + Sports + Business + Opinion + Front Page > =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company >=20 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (Des News) Several LDS film articles Date: 15 Aug 2003 17:47:36 -0600 Three recent Des News articles on Mormon film: MORMON MOVIE MADNESS It started with one. In March 2000, Richard Dutcher's "God's Army" stormed Utah theater box offices, earning $88,584 in just three days. The film, which cost $300,000 to make, went on to gross a total of $2.6 million before going to video. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C510046951%2C00.html 'BOOK OF MORMON' COMING TO BIG SCREEN' Over the years, multitudes of LDS Church members have discussed and daydreamed -- often during Sunday School -- about how somebody should make the Book of Mormon into a movie. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C510046961%2C00.html CHRIS HICKS: 'GOD'S ARMY' KICK-STARTED LDS 'GENRE' Since the Mormon movie movement was kick-started three years ago by Richard Dutcher's impressive -- and let's say it, surprising -- one-two punch, "God's Army" and "Brigham City," it's caused much more than a snowball effect. It's an avalanche. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C510046953%2C00.html PRODUCERS FELT NOAH WAS RIGHT FOR NEPHI http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C510046962%2C00.html Plus a bonus article reflecting Des News's attempt to cover Sunstone but with a positive spin: LDS INTELLECTUALS TELL WHY THEY DON'T STRAY http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1%2C1249%2C510047152%2C00.html -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] DM News: Book of Mormon Coming To Big Screen Date: 15 Aug 2003 16:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Friday, August 15, 2003 'Book of Mormon' coming to big screen'=20 By Jody Genessy Deseret Morning News Over the years, multitudes of LDS Church members have discussed and daydreamed =97 often during Sunday School =97 about how= somebody should make the Book of Mormon into a movie. Legend even has it that "Ten Commandments" filmmaker Cecil B. DeMille wanted to direct it. Verily, verily, the oft-fantasized film =97 arguably the most common topic of idle Mormon conversation this side of BYU football =97 has finally come to pass. Nephi, Lehi, Ishmael and Laban and their epic adventures can=20 be seen on the silver screen next month in a multimillion-dollar motion picture titled "The Book of Mormon Movie, Volume 1: The Journey." Filmmaker Gary Rogers' vision of First and Second Nephi =97 the first two books of the Book of Mormon, which is scripture to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (and what a journal review considers one of "20 Books That Changed America") =97 has been shot on high-definition video, with a musical score composed by Robert C. Bowden, former associate conductor of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Rogers has also employed a pioneering ticket-proselytizing plan and, in a touch of showmanship that DeMille would have appreciated, will have camels at Jordan Commons for the world premiere on Sept. 12, the day the film begins its Utah run in several theaters. (Idaho movie houses will start playing it the following week.) That much is certain =97 and the fact that The Osmonds will not be singing a pop version of the primary song "Book of Mormon Stories" on the soundtrack, a la "Singles Ward." But for the rest of the world, it's a wait-and-maybe-see situation. The movie's production company, Mormon Movies, brainstormed a barnstorming way to offer the film to far-reaching audiences while also=20 protecting its relatively low budget from being gobbled up by costly outside distribution: If you buy it, they will come. Outside of Utah and Idaho, Mormon Movies is pre-selling tickets at $7.50 a pop (for all ages) on its Web site at www.bookofmormonmovie.com. Any area in the world will get a local screening for at least one week if about 1,000 tickets are presold. The staff is banking on a couple of Mormon stereotypes to play out =97 that the word-of-mouth Relief Society grapevine method works and that people will buy in bulk. "We hope it works," said Lisa Rogers, director of marketing, who also plays a role as Laban's evil wife. "We've just had such an=20 overwhelming response, and it's like, how do we get this movie out to all the people who want to see it? We'll take it wherever we've got the support." Cynics might scoff, but a Utah-based film-buyer believes it's worth trying. After all, the movie's primary target audience is 11 million LDS members who are spread far and wide. "They're just using the Braille method, feeling their way through. Basically, it's just a feeler with some teeth," said David Sharp, whose Film Service Theater Group has booked the movie into the Scera Theater in Orem and several others along the Wasatch Front. "I've never seen any other studio, independent or major, do exactly this approach in the market place," Sharp said. "These people are selling this film themselves and they have no experience of any kind. This is more reassurance for them than anything. It certainly isn't unreasonable." Mormon Movies hopes each potential moviegoer will put his money where his mouse is. And the movie's Web site has been swamped, receiving more than 3 million hits last month. And they're not just coming from Utah County, either. E-mails pour in daily from such far-flung regions as Fukuoka, Japan; Lesotho, South Africa; Burgdorf, Switzerland; and El Salvador. "We've gotten them from everywhere," Rogers said. You'd think it was the first "Star Wars" movie =97 or maybe "God's Army, Part Deux" =97 based on the response from one South American country. "I don't know what's going on in Brazil," Rogers mused. "About every other e-mail comes from Brazil. Sao Paulo is going nuts." There will be prints dubbed into Portuguese and Spanish for international viewers, as well as language options on the DVD when it is released after the theatrical run. Ideally, director Gary Rogers hopes to produce up to nine volumes of "Book of Mormon Movies" over the next seven years. That, however, depends on how well the first one is received. "Obviously if this one tanks, there won't be anymore," said Lisa Rogers, who's also the director's daughter. "People have waited their whole lives to see this movie. They can't wait to see it. We hope they enjoy it. We think it's a beautiful film and are proud and excited about it." This is also a case of the filmmakers saying they hope you actually like the book better than the movie. "We want it to inspire them to actually go back and read the book," she said. "We think it could open a lot of doors." Preferably theater doors first, of course. =20 E-MAIL: jody@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] DM News: "God's Army" Kick-Started LDS "Genre" Date: 15 Aug 2003 17:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Friday, August 15, 2003 'God's Army' kick-started LDS 'genre'=20 By Chris Hicks Deseret Morning News Since the Mormon movie movement was kick-started three years ago by Richard Dutcher's impressive =97 and let's say it, surprising = =97 one-two punch, "God's Army" and "Brigham City," it's caused much more than a snowball effect. It's an avalanche. The number of films about Mormons by Mormon filmmakers has grown to several a year =97 and this year, most of them are bunched together over the next couple of months. That's either good news or bad news, depending on your perspective. It's always good news when independent filmmakers manage to get their pictures on the big screen. Many independents still never quite get that far. But there's also the danger of these films canceling each other out. The audience simply may not be big enough to support so many all at once or in tandem, especially since they'll be in competition with Hollywood's serious-minded, end-of-the-year Oscar-contenders. Then there's the issue of quality. So far, the law of diminishing=20 returns has been in effect. If none of the upcoming films are any better than the majority that have followed Dutcher's, this entire genre . . . if that's the word . . . could be in trouble. And those who indiscriminately heap praise and support on all of these movies do the filmmakers no favors. What's the incentive to improve if all you hear is that your work is great? Hence, "Singles Ward" is followed by "The RM." And soon, "Home Teachers." And next year, "Church Ball." These aren't movies; they're road shows with money. But all of this is subjective, of course. One man's "Citizen Kane" is another man's "Caddyshack." Which makes me wonder what Dutcher might do next. It's a shame his biographical film of Joseph Smith fell apart, but he apparently has a couple of scripts ready to go, and he's on the verge of making a third film fairly quickly. Hopefully, the Joseph Smith project will be resurrected down the road. When Dutcher started "God's Army" in 1999, he called me from Los Angeles to introduce himself and tell me what he was up to. He got my attention because I have a strong interest in Mormon characters in motion pictures. The idea that we might soon see a movie to counteract such derisive Hollywood depictions of Mormons as the hypocritical FBI boss in "Donnie Brasco" or the naive twit police detective in "Goodbye Lover" (or=20 subsequent shady characters in "One Night at McCool's" and "Ocean's 11")=20 filled me with hope. But also with dread. Back then, I didn't know Dutcher or what he was capable of, and I am often on the receiving end of calls or e-mail from hopeful filmmakers who want to be the Mormon Steven Spielberg. I enjoyed speaking with Dutcher, but I wasn't sure I'd ever hear from =97 or of =97 him again. So imagine my surprise when, a few months later, he sent me a VHS copy of the film's trailer. It's hard to tell anything from a trailer, but I remember saying to=20 our film critic Jeff Vice, "I'm glad you're doing the movies these days." Suffice it to say I was happy to eat crow when "God's Army" proved to be well-made, entertaining, humorous and quite moving. Hollywood wisdom has it that a "sophomore slump," or failed second=20 film, follows most filmmakers whose first film hits it big (relatively speaking, of course). Dutcher proved that theory wrong as well. "Brigham City" didn't have the financial success of "God's Army," but it won critical kudos, and some national reviews were better than he received for "God's Army." Let's hope that third film comes soon. After all, Dutcher remains the only "name-brand" Mormon filmmaker among the current crop. Whatever he does next, all eyes inside and outside the Mormon movie industry will be on him. E-MAIL: hicks@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 15 Aug 2003 23:05:11 -0700 Thom, If Krakauer is so certain that Mormonism's roots have a great deal to do with the Laffertys becoming violent fundamentalists who commit murder-Then I would still assert he needed to look into Joseph's familial roots, The First Vision, and the Lafferty's boyhoods and their experiences as adolescents to grasp how, and why he asserts their Mormonism brought them to that point where they were capable of such acts. I'd be curious to know what you base your assertion of the high incidence of spouse abuse in the Church on. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like a source, please. My own anecdotal experience is that I've not often known of physical abuse among the Saints, but more of situations where the husband or parents exert severe emotional pressure or mental abuse on their spouse or children. And do use the "I'm the Priesthood holder" admonition to justify it. One of our friends has an ex-husband that would not let the kids eat their breakfast cereal at the table because the crunching distrubed him. He would not let his wife read her scriptures in bed as that was a lazy and improper way to read them-they should be read sitting up straight, in a chair. Unrighteous dominion all the way. No surprise he's on his fifth wife, with unfortunately, four temple divorces behind him. He would definitely be an interesting character in a book or play. And I don't usually look on spouse abuse coming from a simmering cauldron in a particular human being waiting to boil over. I see it more as a desperately inadequate, insecure human being acting out in a tough, or violent way to assert control and help them tamp down the anxiety, and fear they are harboring. The anger is an excuse. They will use any excuse they can think up in most cases. The other spouse could be near perfect and these individuals would find something to criticize, some way to project their negative feelings about themselves anywhere but inward. If this is what you mean by simmering, than I'm more likely to agree. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: [AML] Mormonism, Art, and Evil (was: Box Office Report 8 Aug. 03) Date: 16 Aug 2003 10:04:45 -0500 --- Original Message --- >And this could be an interesting question to discuss: What is it about >success in Hollywood that drives actors to distance themselves from the >church? It doesn't always happen, but we have ready examples in Ryan >Gosling, Paul Walker, Eliza Dushku, Matthew Modine, Aaron Eckhart (?), >Jewel Kilcher, etc. Is there a level of secular artistic success that makes >church membership particularly perilous? Did the entertainment industry >even have anything to do with their departure from activity, or would it >likely have happened in another profession as well? This is indeed an interesting question, though I think the real question is: What is it about Mormonism that makes in incompatible with the Arts? Our religion tends toward the centered moral universe where everything has an answer and the answer is almost always, "pray and live the commandments." Hollywood is anything but centered. It is an open society where one can simultaneously explore the anquish of a child molester trying to go straight at the same time that another film maker explores the importance of religion in the life of Hindu familyh in England. Most films will ultimately take a moral position ("drugs are bad," "tolerance is good") but not without flirting along the way with graphic scenes of the exact evil they ultimately reject. Mormonism is uncomfortable with the details of sin. No one gets up in testimony meeting and confesses their adultery and then gives details about what happened. Add to that the near constant barrage from those in authority about the evils of the media and what's a poor Mormon to think should they find themselves talented enough to want to pursue the field? I have dealt with the "guilt" of being an actor since I joined the Chruch. I was taught not to swear but is it okay to do that in a play? I shouldn't kiss another woman romantically other than my wife, but does that still hold true on the stage? Even though everyone knows I'm probably not really drinking whiskey on the stage, is it okay to pretend as though I am? It may not actually be a sin to cross-dress (though it is in Mormon Doctrine as I recall) but if I wear a dress on stage, what does that mean? I can't think of two more incompatible things than modern Mormonism and modern art. It's a wonder there are any active LDS folks, to tell the truth. But there are. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan, replying from the Web" Subject: Re: [AML] Ken Starr Date: 16 Aug 2003 10:17:20 -0500 The Church of Christ also preached a Restoration. They too believed that the ancient church had veered away from the original. Sydney Rigdon and Parley P. Pratt were one-time members of the church. Mormonism differed in its ideas about restored authority and extra-biblical scripture. So both churches can be considered fruits of the Restoration movement. In that same movement, and breakoffs from Mormonism, are the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), the Church of Christ (with the Elijah Message), and the Community of Christ (RLDS). Not to mention a plethora of smaller groups (the Bickertonites, frex) in and around Independence. Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Elizabeth Walters Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 16 Aug 2003 08:57:06 -0600 Some actors not mentioned yet: Matthew Mcaunahey (I don't know how to spell his name) although I think Richard pretty much ruled him out when he said he didn't want people to see Joseph Smith and say "Hey there's EDTV!" Heath Ledger: If he can brush up his accent and comb his hair, he'd make an ideal young Joseph Smith. Hayden Christensen: I don't care what other people think. I think this kid is a good actor even in Star Wars. He can dye his hair auburn and you'll have another young JS prospect. Although he is one tall dude. Paul Walker: Isn't this guy LDS anyway? He definitely has that charismatic look to him. Just polish his rough edges a little and we might be on to something. Christian Bale: His hair would need work, but he definitely has the acting chops to lose himself in the character. He's been in all kinds of roles. Billy Cudrup: Another hair project, but this guy is one of the most underrated actors in Hollywood. He's got the face for it. Is he JS? I don't know, but I like his acting. I think Kevin Cosnter would've been good if only he wasn't so old now. But there are some prospects out there if they're looking for a hollywood leading man for the role. If they're looking for talented unknowns, there are plenty of those out there too. Here's hoping the casting of Joseph Smith comes easier than the mess that is the casting of Superman. 5 years, several screenwriters and 3 directors later they still can't get that project off the ground and these are guys with a major studio backing them with $100+ million at their disposal. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Dale W. NELSON, _A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Tribes_ (Review) Date: 16 Aug 2003 10:40:08 -0700 (PDT) Dale W. Nelson _The Migrations, Alliances, and Power of Israel in Western Europe and Central Asia: A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Tribes_ Sharpspear Press (Orem, Utah), 2001 Softcover, 236 pages ISBN: 0-9717027-0-5 Price? Note: Fred Pinnegar, AML-list member and the man behind Sharpspear Press, invited me to review this book after reading my AML-list review of Clay McConkie's _The Ten Lost Tribes: A People of Destiny_. While I do not intend to make comparisons between the two books, which contain sharply contrasting views on the Lost Tribes of Israel, I intend to approach this review with the same rigor and skeptical eye. PREFACE: In his biographical preface to _The Migrations, etc._, Dale W. Nelson quotes heavily from Hugh Nibley's 1971 _New Era_ article "The Day of the Amateur." It's an interesting move on his part -- and one that typifies the entire preface. Nelson is not an academic. By telling his life story and intellectual history, he seeks to establish his credentials for writing this work. The point of Nibley's article, and the guiding force behind the work, is the idea that a well-read, intellectually curious LDS amateur theologian-historian can see patterns in world history that the academic mainstream can't. This premise is central to Nibley's work itself -- and Nelson's book has some of the same strengths and weaknesses as Nibley's, namely a maddening amount of details, hints here and there, all of which serve to provide evidence of an over-all pattern, the pattern being a manifestation of the work of the Lord and a series of causalities that lead to proof of the restoration of the gospel. I think it's a fascinating Mormon phenomenon, this idea of the Mormon amateur, and one that could lend itself to some powerful, complex works of narrative fiction. STRUCTURE AND STYLE: The work consists of 11 chapters. It proceeds somewhat chronologically, beginning with the founding and then scattering of Israel. The chapters average around 15 pages and cover a lot of ground. The writing is straightforward -- very serviceable -- and it is mercifully free of academic jargon. It can be hard to follow at times because of the profusion of names (there's like 30+ tribes mentioned throughout the book -- from the Massagetae to the Sogdians) and the jumps in time as Nelson traces the history of each tribe and its offshoots (or conquerors). Nelson acknowledges this difficulty, though, and usually does a good job of reminding the reader who's who, and, more importantly, showing how these tribes fit into the overall scheme of dispersing Israel throughout Europe and Central Asia. There are a few weird instances where the writing changes register and becomes more casual. My favorite is where, in discussing the attributes of the various tribes of Israel, Nelson mentions that members of the tribe of Ephraim can, according to Brigham Young, often be "unruly," and then writes, "ask any bishop about the difficulty of governing Ephraimites." These moments are rare, though, and I didn't find them distracting. In fact, they seem like the sort quirks that one would find in the work of an amateur. But I could seem them puzzling other readers. In sum: the book is dense, but readable. The one criticism I do have is the maps -- there aren't enough. What's more, the maps that are in the book are poorly reproduced. I would have been able to follow the movements of all the tribes mentioned much more easily if there had been better maps, charts and perhaps also a graphically represented timeline. This is a book that cries out for a more graphical representation of many of its ideas. SOURCES: Since I'm not familiar with the body of work that Nelson relies on in his book, I can't really evaluate his sources. However, I was pleased to see that his bibliography is extensive and contains modern scholarly works as well as some older ones. This is important because much of the amateur scholarly work I've come across in Mormondon relies mainly on the (obviously) heavily-biased historical work done by Christian historians in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Nelson's book isn't free of such bias (for instance, he seems to accept the idea that many members of European royalty are indeed descendents of Israel), but even so, he's very good about being careful about what claims can definitely be made and what ones can only be hinted at. In fact, the one failing in Nelson's interaction with his sources, is that he quotes from them quite heavily, often at some length. This is to be expected with this type of work -- the author, after all, isn't doing primary research, but instead synthesizing the research of others; however, I think that Nelson could have worked a little harder at integrating his sources into his narrative. MAJOR PREMISES: Among Latter-day Saints, there are two basic views on the Lost Tribes. The first subscribes to a literal reading of scripture and suggests that a large portion of the Lost Tribes are still living as an intact, independent group. This is the theory that Clay McConkie subscribes to, as did many of the early leaders of the Church [although McConkie puts a unique spin on it -- see my review of his book for details]. The second is the dispersionist view. This point of view calls for a more figurative reading of the scriptures and suggests that the Lost Tribes were dispersed throughout the other peoples of the world, especially in Central Asia and Western Europe. Nelson, naturally, subscribes to this view. But he takes it a step further by seeking to identify the exact groups that might have contained or been influenced by members of the Lost Tribes. Nelson believes that the Cimmerians, Scythians, Goths, Getae, Alans, Cossacks, Armenians, Sogdians and other tribes (see the book for a full list) were all of Israelite heritage -- either in full or in part (i.e. members of the Lost Tribes were integrated into or heavily influenced other tribes). The evidence he gives for this ranges from root tribal names (Saka is a key one), to Israelitish names of tribal leaders, to the wearing of conical shaped hats. Part of the difficulty for both Nelson and mainstream academics is that many of these tribes didn't leave very much evidence and documentation. I cannot evaluate whether he is spot on in all cases, but at the very least it seems reasonable to suggest from the evidence he gives and the fact of all the migrations and invasions of various tribes from Central Asia into Eastern and Western Europe (especially during the history of the Roman empire and its fall) that at least some of these tribes were of Hebrew origin. Perhaps of more importance to Latter-day Saints, Nelson shows how the values of these tribes, especially those of political independence and religious freedom, helped shape the nations of Europe, eventually leading to a climate that would allow for the rise of the Reformation and the eventual restoration of the Gospel. He also explores the important role these tribes had in combating the spread of the Roman Empire, and of Islam and Zoroastrianism into Europe. In addition, Nelson explores the possibility that people of the blood of Israel (especially tribes who lived along the spice rout) contributed to the development of Islam and Buddhism. The evidence for this may not be completely convincing, but it makes for interesting reading and is a good reminder for someone like me who is quite hazy on pre-Medieval European history of how much intercourse there was between East and West prior to the rise of Christianity and Islam. BONUS PREMISE: Nelson quotes Nibley in his preface, and in turn Nibley contributes a quote to the back cover: "Your notes are valuable vademecum .... It is just the sort of outline everyone should have .... I had dinner the other night with missionaries from Mongolia -- Mormon missionaries. A few years ago I would have said you were fantasizing about the Church spreading into the vast reaches of Central Asia, and it is still hard for me to realize -- my Sogdian has never been very fluid." [Note: vademecum = a book made for ready reference, i.e. a manual -- I had to look it up.] I'm not sure if this quote is a compliment or not. I mean, I would hate for my life's work to be referred to as merely "notes," but the reference to Central Asia and Sogdian points to one of the more exciting things about this work, and to something that is explicitly Mormon. Nelson believes that Buddhists and Muslims will only join the Church in great numbers if they receive scripture of their own. He references the Savior's "other sheep" remarks to the Nephites and Lamanites at the time of his visitation as well as the LDS belief that the Lost Tribes will bring their own scriptures with them. And he even suggests that the Christ may have visited the Chorasmians and Sogidans, two tribes who lived in present-day Bashkortostan, Tatarstan, Kazakhstan and the Ukraine. I won't go into the evidence, but these two groups had a written language similar to Aramaic, were fiercely independent, refusing to convert to Buddhism or Zoroastrianism, were quite civilized, and had a Savior legend similar to the Quetzalcoatl myth. Nelson reasons that the qualities of these tribes make them the most likely to be the origin of additional scripture and to have been visited by Christ. While I was serving my mission in Romania, my companion and I visited a man who had worked in Kazakhstan as part of a Warsaw Pact exchange. He told us a little about the country and showed us postcards and a coffee table book that showcased the region. Afterwards my companion and I excitedly discussed the possibility that this country, which seemed to be one of the few last unknown places in the world, was a likely place to find members of the Lost Tribes. I've since developed a more sanguine view of things, but Nelson raises some intriguing questions that are quite exciting from an LDS perspective. He writes: "The scriptures which they [the Hebrews of Central Asia] wrote, which we understand are yet to come forth, are not just an interesting literary artifact, rather they will be tremendously important to helping the people in the spiritually frozen 'north' [Europe] to a proper understanding of their Israelite genealogy and heritage" (211). In this modern world of instantaneous communication and widespread skepticism, it's hard to believe that another modern scripture could come forth in the same manner as the Book of Mormon. I don't know the Lord's plans or timing for this whole additional scripture thing, but if works were to come forth in the same manner as, say, the Dead Sea scrolls, works that testified in some way or another of Christ, then I hope that they could have the same power and impact on me and on others as the Book of Mormon has. It's exciting to think about even if the evidence is limited. CONCLUSION: While it has its flaws, I would recommend _The Migrations, etc._, (perhaps a shorter title would've been wise) to any Mormon with a serious interest in theology and history. I fear that other readers won't gain much from it. The Mormon market still could use a book that explains the various Lost Tribes theories present in Mormonism in a clear, well-written way. Nelson does a pretty good job of explaining his theories and the research behind them, but as amateurs are wont, he gets a little wrapped up in his sources and in details. While it's true that he readily admits this and asks for the reader's patience, I'm not going to leave him completely off the hook for his faults. Too often, the world of Mormon arts and letters asks its consumers to tolerate its amateurism. Don't get me wrong -- Nelson is a very good amateur with reasonable ideas. But rather than cloak himself in amateurism, I would have preferred to see him approach his subject matter with a little more rigor and attention to the demands of the Mormon audience. POSTSCRIPT: As I mention in my introduction, I'm fascinated by the Nibley phenomenon of reconstructing history, of gathering the hints here and there of the gospel throughout the ages, of the tiny moments and manifestations of God's plan (as well as the corruption or derailing of it). Some academics have criticized Nibley's approach. That's a matter for the historians to take up. For the purposes of Mormon fiction and art, I think that it'd be fascinating to see this idea of the amateur seeking out hidden hints treated as a character in narrative fiction. And parallel to that, to take some of these hints and patterns and use them as the basis for speculative (in the purest sense of the word) fiction. Who wants to write a novel about the Sogdians? Who is willing to write a play about the discovery of 'other' scripture? There's some great material waiting to be plumbed, appropriated, reshaped and fictionalized. ~~William Morris Oakland, CA __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] Being a Mormon Actor Date: 16 Aug 2003 19:08:05 -0600 [MOD: Wow, Dianna! Thanks for writing the kind of insightful, sharing post that really gives substance to a discussion like this one.] Eric Dixon asked: >And this could be an interesting question to discuss: What is it about success in Hollywood that drives actors to distance >themselves from the church? It doesn't always happen, but we have ready examples in Ryan Gosling, Paul Walker, Eliza Dushku, >Matthew Modine, Aaron Eckhart (?), Jewel Kilcher, etc. Is there a level of secular artistic success that makes church >membership particularly perilous? Did the entertainment industry even have anything to do with their departure from >activity, or would it likely have happened in another profession as well? Of course, the best people to ask are the successful actors themselves. But here's a little tidbit from a house-wife, would-be actress (hope to be one again someday). I've done a bit of work with some really successful theatre actors, and it is, of course, a slightly different animal from film, but here it is. (Note: Everything I'm about to say is from an actor stand point). Being an active Mormon in a group of non-LDS entertainers can be really lonely at times. While there are some wonderful, balanced people in the business who see acting as a job or a great creative opportunity, not a life-style, they are few and far between. In one of the productions I was in up in SLC, the guest director was from New York and usually directed soaps. He was a doll (called me "Sweetie" and "Honey" all the time, not a big deal), and I'd work with him again any day, but he loved to say f*** while giving directions at least a few times a day. One of the dancers in the show regularly slapped me on the bum every time I passed him until I finally got up the nerve to gently ask him to stop (and it took a lot courage and then he seemed to feel so bad). One of the musical numbers in the show had a very sensual tango in it where at one point, we, the dancers, had to reach over to our partner and grab one of their bum cheeks. (Those were some fun discussions with my husband. I was able to grab my dance partner's hip and make it look like the other, and I felt fine with that). One afternoon, while the ensemble was waiting for their next rehearsal time, two of our cast members (males, by the way) first mooned us all through one of the rehearsal room windows, and then proceeded to french kiss with their mouths still open, hoping to make us all laugh. (And most folks did). I think the woman in the cast who made the most dirty jokes and used the most profanity was the only other Mormon woman in the cast. I mean, I loved doing the show, and I thought everyone was fun, don't get me wrong. But to be completely honest, it was hard to not follow suit with the others, because even though about 1/5 of the cast was LDS, most behaved the same way. These creative opportunities are relationships where goodbyes often include kisses on the lips, even from the dancer who you thought absolutely hated you for not being as good a dancer as him. In some ways, I really think the intimacy performers celebrate is fabricated, but it's still a level of intimacy. Oh, another tidbit from that show, our wig and make-up guy was a gay ex-Mormon. He was one of my favorite co-workers, the sweetest guy I ever met, and we had a really nice friendship. But this was a man in the ladies' dressing-room when a few of us were taking showers before or after the show. I had a man (gay men are men, period) who was not my husband less than five feet away when I was going from a towel to a corset bra. Our lesbian sound lady, another fantastically sweet woman, would sometimes make interesting, forward comments to me. (Like when I asked her once if my fake eyelashes were on right, and she said, "You look great! I could kiss you if you like!" I guess I had that coming.) Anyway, if the film world is anything like the theatre world, it's got to be a little lonely if you don't want to compromise at all and if you want to connect with those around you. At that job, in particular, I really felt like a freshman in high school really wanting to fit in. It's especially challenging if you have to travel for a job, which so many performers do. You're far away from your family and friends who are, for the most part, a little more likely to live the way you do, and all of a sudden, you're alone. There are some really healthy actors who are so self-assured they can ignore the behavior completely or ask others to be more sensitive to them, etc., but I've not met many. (And it really doesn't help if most of the other Mormons' behavior is the same if not more extreme). Then there's that whole debate you hear in your head (the "committee" speaking), "Strong language does not a bad Mormon make." "He doesn't mean anything bad when he touches you that way, so you shouldn't be offended..." (Another tidbit: I was once the only woman in a group of men for a few hours of blocking. The scene was the morning after my character's wedding night, and the men started making remarks about how my character should hardly be able to walk the next day. I spoke up that I didn't like what they were saying, and my director later said it's better to "just ignore it." Words of wisdom? Sort of. But, that doesn't really do anything to help the next women in that situation, does it? Nor does it make me feel safe...) Like I said, high school. You want to fit in, you want to build bridges, and you want to be a part of that...love, I guess it is, that seems to be circulating through the air. The kisses and the jokes and fun and laughter. You don't enjoy having someone condescend to you that you must be a hypocrite to be a Mormon and yet befriend a gay man, because "how can you reconcile those together?" You know how you can, but the dressing room 30 minutes before a show doesn't seem like the place to discuss it. Do you know what I mean? The entertainment business is so much more than a business, as it should be. We are artists. If we do not connect with each other, with audiences, we are wasting our time our work is masturbatory at best. But, the entertainment world is so mixed up, never finding resolution on what makes a professional environment. Language and behavior that would be completely unacceptable in an office is typical everyday behavior on a set or in a rehearsal room. (And that's between AND during performances, right?) It is a place where you should be open to confrontation and you should refrain from judgement, but where you should be prepared to be judged. It is a scary place to be. So, how do we respond to such an environment? Some of us choose to step away from it and try to grow up a bit more before we go back to give it another shot. Maybe we pursue some other dreams, like a family or writing, or both, etc. Maybe we're the weaklings of the bunch, or just extremely wise, I know not. Others tough it out, holding their own, and improving their social skills, strengthening their backbone, finding humor in situations, or creating opportunities for themselves and creating a world in which they can make up the rules. These ones, I believe are the heros. Finally, there is the artist who wants to join in, wants to stop having to fight against temptation. Maybe he no longer remembers what the fight was once about, because, hey, these other people are really wonderful people too. Or maybe he or she decides or realizes that the fight was never real to them anyway. Perhap a mormon artist can redefine their faith to themselves and make that other world fit in, and somehow embracing that world makes them more Christlike. There may be a hint of truth to that theory. But these folks are the majority. I bet there are a lot more Ryan Goslings and Eliza Dushkus out there than we know. Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] "Mormon" Actors Date: 16 Aug 2003 19:17:31 -0600 Thomas Baggley quoted: >Films have NOT been listed on this page >based on any determination of church activity, Thom Duncan responded: >Nor should they ever be, imo. If a person self-identifies as Mormon, that should be enough for the rest of us. Dianna responds: It is likewise if someone identifies themselves to no longer be a Mormon. It's a little strange to read articles that highlight successful Mormon artists when those individuals don't consider themselves to be LDS anymore. It's not an issue of activity either. It may not be an accurate view, but I don't really consider ex-Mormons whose names simply haven't been removed from church records as Mormons, active or less active. Here are two examples to illustrate my point. First, I did a show with a woman a few years back who completely identifies herself as a Mormon, even though she doesn't really get involved in the church at all. She may or may not drink, and I'm not sure what her view on the law of chastity is. She doesn't attend church regularly, though, and she doesn't see the point to tithing. But she only likes to date LDS men because she is a Mormon. So, she's definitely a Mormon, and should she achieve notable success in the entertainment industry, I'd love to see her name on the "Mormon Artist" lists. The other example, however, is about a former BYU student who is a wonderful TV actor. Years ago, when he was the star of a pilot sitcom, he was featured in a Deseret News article where the interviewer was so excited about featuring a "Mormon actor who's really making it." The article basically said that while it's cool that any young man can do so well as a professional actor, it's even cooler that this one was an RM. It was such a funny article, though, because you could even tell from the writer's quotes that the actor was trying to politely, subtly say that his religion was a part of his upbringing and his past, but not really a part of his life anymore. They kept saying, though, "Hey, look, a successful Mormon actor!!" Anyway, though I might be wrong, I really don't think this individual would call himself a Mormon artist. I'd be really interested in seeing how many of "our own" really consider themselves one of "our own." I'm not trying to be mean or exclusive, but when I see articles or Box Office lists of successful Mormon artists, I'd rather know that they all basically consider themselves a Mormon. When I first saw those lists back in the "even-more-naive-than-I-am-now" days, I got really excited to see that so many Mormons could make it in the real entertainment world. It was reassuring and energizing. But since I've come to realize that a large number of them kind of had to cast aside the old religion thing in the process of achieving commercial success as an artist, it's really just become kind of annoying. Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 17 Aug 2003 13:14:55 -0600 Thom Duncan writes "So far I haven't anyone suggesting an actor to play Joseph who more approximated his physical type: 6 feet, 200 pounds, (considered porty by some accounts) with a slightly receeding chin. My suggestion would be John Lovitz." Based on that criteria, I'd rather see Oliver Platt than John Lovitz. Even better, Laim Neesan...but aren't they all too old? So at 5'11 and 45, I'd still vote for Viggo. I'm doubting THE PROPHET will have any butt shots in it. Kim Madsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harlow S Clark Subject: Re: [AML] Changing the Words Date: 17 Aug 2003 17:41:27 -0700 On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:57:49 -0600 "Nan P. McCulloch" writes: > To add to my post regarding permission to change dialogue in a play. > Don't hesitate to ask, but ask early on before you pay the big bucks. > The Pleasant Grove people waited until a week before they were set > to open. > > Nan McCulloch The story I saw on TV said they didn't ask, that somehow Neil Simon's lawyer got wind of what they were doing and sent them a letter saying that would be a violation of their contract and they had to do it as written or not at all. The reporter said the theatre owners told her they knew cutting the swear words was a violation of their contract but they didn't think it would matter. Can they get a refund after having paid the royalties? Harlow Clark ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 18 Aug 2003 11:38:16 -0400 My first choice would have to be Val Kilmer. His choice of roles through the years has spoken of a kind of integrity that I like. And he was as aghast as I was at the ruin Joel Shoemacher (sp?) wreaked on the Batman series. He has an honest kind of spirituality that comes through. Jackman and Mortensen are too much hunk-o-the-week. Why not just cast Matthew McConnaghey (sp?), shoot me, and get it over with? Or get Aaron Eckhardt for the role, a little reactivation action... Tony Markham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tammy Daybell Subject: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 18 Aug 2003 09:49:04 -0600 >From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even caffeinated soft drinks... Gordon B Hinckley: Right. Tammy Daybell -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher on KRAKUER, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ Date: 18 Aug 2003 11:53:02 -0500 --- Original Message --- Banner of Heaven_ >Thom, > >If Krakauer is so certain that Mormonism's roots have a great >deal to do with the Laffertys becoming violent fundamentalists >who commit murder-Then I would still assert he needed to look >into Joseph's familial roots, The First Vision, and the Lafferty's >boyhoods and their experiences as adolescents to grasp how, >and why he asserts their Mormonism brought them to that point >where they were capable of such acts. > >I'd be curious to know what you base your assertion of the high >incidence of spouse abuse in the Church on. I'm not saying >you're wrong, but I'd like a source, please. I'm basing my assumption that the percentage is high enough to have interested the Brethren to the extent that not a General Priesthood meeting goes by but that they don't mention it as a serious problem. Thom Duncan -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 18 Aug 2003 12:17:08 -0500 Why couldn't an unknown have been cast? It worked well for "Ghandi" and "Superman" making stars out of both men. Thom -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 18 Aug 2003 12:25:02 -0500 --- Original Message --- >If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated >drinks? BYU prefers to err on the side of ultra-orthodoxy. This way, they get fewer phone calls from concerned parents about the University, since it is the Lord's University, facilitating "sin" in its children. The Church Offic Building is the same way. You can't find a decent Diet Coke anywhere in the building. Again, they are taking the ultra0conservative, offend as few people as possible route. Let's remember that, in a recent interview with Larry King, President Hinkeley replied in the afirmative when King asked him if Mormons refrained from caffeine drinks. I suspect it would be very difficult after that answer (off-handed as it was) to sell coke products at BYU or the Church. In reality, you can drink diet coke all you want and never have to worry about losing a Temole Recommend, so the standards are a little looser in the rank and file church. Thom Duncan -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cathy Wilson Subject: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 18 Aug 2003 10:31:13 -0600 There's the funniest reference to Mormonism in the new film SWAT. The protagonist brings in a couple of Dr Peppers (product placement) and the older agent says, "Don't tell my wife I'm swilling this stuff," or something like that. "When we got married, I converted to Mormonism and we're not to take anything into our bodies that would alter our thinking or anything. We're supposed to keep our bodies clean." and later The protagonist comes into the office and there's the Mormon guy eating McDonalds, including some more Dr Pepper. The guy says, "You're eating and drinking hellfire and damnation to your soul," or something like that. And the Mormon guy responds, "Just don't tell my wife." Very cute. Cathy Wilson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Dale W. NELSON, _A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Date: 18 Aug 2003 11:17:30 -0700 I'm very glad to learn of this book. Thank you for the comprehensive and well-written review! Is there no price available? This is surprising. Thanks again. William Morris wrote: > Dale W. Nelson > _The Migrations, Alliances, and Power of Israel in Western Europe and > Central Asia: > A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Tribes_ > Sharpspear Press (Orem, Utah), 2001 > Softcover, 236 pages > ISBN: 0-9717027-0-5 > Price? > -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark Goble Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 18 Aug 2003 14:16:06 -0600 ___ Matthew ___ | But please help me understand where this idea of | errorless General Authorities is coming from. ___ Keeping this in terms of *literature* and not formal theology, I think that clearly this idea arose because of the issue of obedience. When people hear that one is to obey, then it is very easy to misinterpret this as "it is correct." Of course it doesn't follow that obedience always entails there being no error. I suspect that in large part this comes from Wilford Woodruff's famous statement about not leading people astray. But once again it doesn't follow that not leading astray is the same as having no mistakes. A good way to explain it is that this is the Lord's church, but it is made up of fallible people. We don't say that the church is somehow not Christ's simply because of all those flawed people. In the same way we don't say that directives are without error. As you say though, most General Authorities have been fairly clear on this. In firesides especially I hear this a lot. And of course Joseph taught it as well. A great way to introduce this to people who may have trouble with it is via the Truman G. Madsen tapes on the life of Joseph Smith. He has a small section on that which is quite well done. [Clark Goble] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 18 Aug 2003 14:28:52 -0600 > If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated > drinks? > > Mary Aagard > Ah, but see they do - they just may not know it. Go check the label of many of the Snapple and SoBe and Mad River "Energy" drinks sold at BYU. Some have Caffeine listed on the ingredient label - but most have "guarana" or "Kola nut" listed - two herbs high in caffeine. --ivan wolfe -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 18 Aug 2003 22:28:27 -0400 Mary Aagard wrote: >If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated >drinks? My guess is it's just marketing. So many Mormons buy into the myth that we shouldn't drink caffeinated drinks that BYU doesn't want to offend its core base of consumers. They sell plenty of varieties of chocolate, including in the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. Eric D. Dixon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 19 Aug 2003 10:04:48 -0600 Matthew Lee wrote: > I must be missing something. When did General > Authorities stop acknowledging that they make > mistakes? I'm confident that if any General Authority > were asked if he made mistakes he would respond with > "Yes". Well, the recent statement of "We cannot lead you astray. It's imposisble," comes to mind. But the real problem is not General Autorities not admitting they make mistakes. It's the lower-tiered authorities who are not internalizing that concept, and start using statements by General Authorities as if those statements were from God himself. I just experienced this phenomenon last Sunday from my bishop. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 19 Aug 2003 13:52:28 -0400 As far as this paragraph goes-- > Beyond that I assume that from time to time > General Authorities are reproved "with sharpness" (D&C > 121:42) by their leaders. Just because it doesn't > appear in the newspapers doesn't mean it doesn't > happen. If it did make it to the press more often > what good would that bring about? I don't know about "press" if you mean a newspaper harping on it, but some kind of public communication I think would be very welcome. Sometimes I think an apostle might say something in a way that is very misunderstood. (I'm not saying they don't also say things that are intended and just plain wrong.) If all the discussion or correction happens in private, your average joeblow Mormon who believes that every word that proceedeth forth will never lead you astray proceeds to base his thoughts and actions on false or mistated doctrine. So yes, I think it would do a lot of good to have the after-the-fact in the public eye. Tracie -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 19 Aug 2003 14:41:54 -0600 Well, if we're casting Joseph Smith based on how many women will swoon at the first screening, my vote definitely goes with Denzel Washington. Casting him might be expensive, but it would add some really interesting plot devices to the script and probably increase marketability. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 15 Aug. 03 Date: 19 Aug 2003 18:37:07 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of August 15, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 2 S.W.A.T. 18,122,486 3,220 10 Latter-day Saint character 69,672,843 15 Le Divorce 942,594 180 10 Matthew Modine (actor) 1,688,798 36 2 Fast 2 Furious 177,310 238 73 Paul Walker (lead actor) 126,236,060 52 Wrong Turn 27,323 51 80 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 15,312,960 56 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 21,698 8 920 Scott Swofford (producer) 15,133,057 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 65 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 10,758 4 1193 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,490,968 81 China: The Panda Adventure 3,186 3 752 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,326,460 87 The R.M. 1,895 3 199 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 1,054,148 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. 88 Cremaster 3 1,856 2 115 Mathew Barney 421,149 (writer/producer/director/actor) 91 Galapagos 1,368 2 1389 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 14,051,144 SUDDENLY UNEXPECTED HELD OVER - Mark Potter's indie film "Suddenly Unexpected," about two LDS missionaries (one black, one white, although that has nothing to do with the plot) serving in Houston (which also has nothing to do with the plot) has been held over for a second week in the theater where it premiered last week, Houston's Nova Meyerland Theater. Mark Potter (no relation to Harry Potter) reports that the and will be shown again on Thursday at 7 p.m., Saturday and Sunday at 11:00 a.m. and Monday night at 7 p.m. again. The theater reported that it was the top-selling movie in its time slot every time it played. * * * * * * * BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE SCREENING - A screening of the movie was held August 11th for investors and friends. The filmmakers report that nobody had any problem with the content and the movie's treatment of the scriptures. Given that the movie has closely adhered to the original text, within reasonable limits of its medium, this is likely not to be a major problem for it. Based on feedback we've seen so far, from people who haven't even seen the movie, I believe audience response seems almost guaranteed to be very positive. What critics will say is anyone's guess at this point. Some film critics wrote reviews of the movie before it began filming. Hopefully they will be willing to give the movie a fresh look when they actually see it -- and hate it, like it, or be indifferent to it based on its own merits rather than any preconceptions they have about Latter-day Saints, Jews or this project in particular. One thing I think nobody will disagree with, the source material is quite rich, and has a lot of potential. 1st Nephi alone is also a more challenging, complex story than what is found in 95% of Hollywood movies. To tackle such subject matter as first feature film is insane, or inspired, or maybe a little of both. The soundtrack CD will soon be shipping to customers who ordered it from the official Gary Rogers' Book of Mormon movie website: http://www.bookofmormonmovie.com Other stores will soon carry this ground-breaking CD as well, which features a full-bodied orchestral score recorded in Prague, composed by classical music composer Robert C. Bowden. The score was orchestrated by popular musician and songwriter Kurt Bestor, and lesser known film composers Aaron Merrill ("Charly") and Thomas C. Baggaley ("Unfolding"). EARLY REVIEW OF "THE BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE" - Read Kyle Monson's review for the Daily Universe, headlined "Book of Mormon movie has it all: ups and downs" at: http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45359 OTHER ARTICLES ABOUT THE COMPLETION AND PRIVATE SCREENING OF GARY ROGERS' "BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE" - See the following: "Moviemakers believe in miracles" - http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45336 "Scriptures hit the silver screen" - http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45339 "Book of Mormon Story" - http://newsnet.byu.edu/story.cfm/45358 * * * * * * * LATTER-DAY SAINT CHARACTER IN S.W.A.T - Apparently there is a Latter-day Saint character in "S.W.A.T." which opened in the number one spot last week and this week fell only to the number two spot. We haven't seen this movie, but according to reports, a comic relief character - one of the cops in the film - converted to Morminism when he married to make his wife happy. Apparently (and we are not making this up) he cheats on his wife and his religion by eating junk food while he's at work, which is supposedly against Latter-day Saint doctrine - and from what we've read, they're not just limiting that to the Dr. Pepper he drinks, but his fries and cheeseburger too. All we can say to this is "Huh?" By the way, S.W.A.T. is rated PG-13 for violence, language and sexual references - we assume none of this coming from what appears to be an extremely clean-living Latter-day Saint character. RadioFree Rocky D, writer of an Internet-based movie review column titled "Politically Incorre! ct Movie Reviews," which is published in the e-zine "Sierra Times" spent a good four paragraphs (http://www.sierratimes.com/rockyd.htm) ranting about the Latter-day Saint character and apparently coming to the defense of Latter-day Saints everywhere in his review of "S.W.A.T." Here's a sample of what he writes: (Warning for the faint of heart: You would never find a similar writing style to his in the Deseret Morning News - it is rather abrasive, and in deriding the filmmakers' treatment of Latter-day Saints, the reviewer also reveals his own lack of knowledge about Latter-day Saints. But then, the title "Politically Incorrect Movie Reviews" should have prepared you for that.) [Quote] More PC SWAT pishposh can be seen in a fat little comic foil character that manages the SWAT-sters equipment cage. This roly-poly, balding whitey informs us that he converted to Mormonism to make his wife happy. At work, he swills food and drinks forbidden by Mormon law. "Don't tell muh wife ah'm doin' this -- she'd have muh head; hyuck hyuck hyuck," chortles our portly pseudo-Mormon. Meanwhile, "Street" makes a few snide comments about the silliness of Mormonism. Now visualize the liberals wringing their hands and weeping if they changed the Mormon into an American Injun and "Street" was making fun of him praying to the God of the Wind while swinging a human scalp over his head. Imagine the squealing from the ADL if it was Jewish guy who snuck a pork chop into his lunch bucket as his work mate made sport of Jewish tradition. I guess there aren't enough Mormons to mount a protest. How big is the Osmond family, anyway? Not that Hollyweird would listen. Mormons are whiteys; therefore not sacred. [End Quote] Actually, this depiction of Latter-day Saints in a Hollywood movie is an improvement over what one usually finds. ADD THE SCREEN-IT.COM PARENTAL REVIEW - Screen-it.com also mentions the treatment of the Latter-day Saint character in their review for parents, which lists in detail anything in the film that parents might find offensive and not want their children to see. Here's what they say about the Latter-day Saints character: "Some Mormons might not like the portrayal of a Mormon cop who's always sneaking junk food in secret from his wife and religious practice." See: http://www.screenit.com/movies/2003/swat.html Doctrinal inaccuracies aside, I don't think you're going to see Latter-day Saints forming picket lines in front of theaters to protest this one. We're too busy making movies like "The Singles Ward," "The R.M." and "The Work and the Story" before all the good LDS jokes are taken by films like "S.W.A.T." AYER IS LIKELY THE SOURCE OF "S.W.A.T." LDS REFERENCES - Perhaps here's the source of the Latter-day Saint references in "S.W.A.T."... The co-screenwriter of "S.W.A.T." was David Ayer. Ayer also was the sole screenwriter of "Training Day," in which Denzel's Washington character makes a reference to Latter-day Saints and the Word of Wisdom, when he questions if his partner is a Latter-day Saint when his partner refuses to use illegal drugs. As far as we know Ayer is not a Latter-day Saint, but 2 references to Latter-day Saint observation of the Word of Wisdom, both with identical viewpoints on the matter (sincerely views Latter-day Saints as people who stringently keep the Word of Wisdom) would seem to NOT be a coincidence. David Ayer, who was born in 1968 in Champain, Illinois, is the screenwriter of: - S.W.A.T. (2003) - Dark Blue (2002) - Training Day (2001) - The Fast and the Furious (2001) - U-571 (2000) Ayer was also the co-producer of "Training Day." Interestingly enough, "The Fast and the Furious" starred once active Latter-day Saint actor Paul Walker in the lead role. * * * * * * * THE WORD ON "BEST TWO YEARS" - We've heard form a few people, including directors, who were at yesterday's screening of "The Best Two Years," the upcoming feature film being distributed by HaleStorm Entertainment, a big screen adaptation of Scott Anderson's very popular stage play (available on video). The consensus seems to be that B2Y is one of the best LDS Cinema movies made yet. One thing that is no surprise is that the cinematography is great... Gordon Lonsdale did "Space: Above and Beyond," for pity's sake... the man turns out mighty fine celluloid. He's one of the most experienced DPs ever to photograph an LDS Cinema film. Also singled out has been Kirby Heyborne's performance, called by some the best of his career, and an acting job that clearly marks him as the most talented of a talented cast. With Heyborne having the lead role in "The R.M.," a starring role in "Saints and Soldiers," a supporting role in Gary Rogers' Book of Mormon movie, and a supporting role in "! The Work and the Story," it's almost a sure bet that Heyborne will be a star of the year's top-grossing LDS Cinema film, and the year's most critically acclaimed LDS cinema film. There's not much coming out right now that he isn't a big part of. Fortunately for all the other actors, Heyborne has left the building. He has already declined major LDS Cinema parts and will probably turn up as the next James Bond after Pierce Brosnan steps down or something. BEST TWO YEARS RELEASE DATE MOVED BACK - According to the Deseret News, and according to people who went to the screening and heard HaleStorm announce the date change, the theatrical release of "The Best Two Years" has been pushed back from October 10th to February 2004. The official web page for "Day of Defense" still says THAT movie is premiering on Oct. 10th, but it will likely be alone in doing so. BEST TWO YEARS OFFICIAL WEBSITE - The official website for "Best Two Years" is now online. Looks pretty cool. The URL is: http://www.best2years.com. This official URL actual auto-forwards to the movie's official webpage on the HaleStorm Entertainment website. * * * * * * * SAINTS AND SOLDIERS IN FESTIVALS - NOTE: "Saints and Soldiers" is the upcoming LDS Cinema release that industry insiders believe has the best chance to exceed the quality of "Brigham City" and set a new high water mark in LDS Cinema. The Latter-day Saint-themed WWII movie stars Kirby Heyborne ("The R.M."), Larry Bagby III ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer") and Corbin Allred ("Diamonds", "Christmas Mission"). Latter-day Saint actor Corbin Allred (who served his mission in Australia) plays the movie's one major Latter-day Saint character - a character who served a mission to Germany just before the war. Although his religious affiliation is not identified by name in the movie, a number of clues are provided so that Latter-day Saint audiences will instantly recognize his Church membership. More than any LDS Cinema film before it, "Saints and Soldiers" is being accepted into the nation's prestigious film festivals. Here's a note from the producer (Adam Abel): [QUOTE] There is an opportunity for each of you to get an early preview of the film. We have submitted Saints and Soldiers to 20+ film festivals through out North America. We are beginning to hear back from each of them. As of 8/11/03 we will be showing at the following festivals: - Telluride Indie Film Festival - http://www.tellurideindiefilmfestival.com - Big Bear Lake International Film Festival - http://www.bigbearlakefilmfestival.com - Temecula Valley International Film Festival - http://www.tviff.com - San Diego Film Festival - http://www.sdff.org Visit each of their websites to learn more about when, where and how to see the film. [END QUOTE] Adam Abel has worked on TONS of LDS Cinema movies in the past, but with this movie sports his first credit as full-fledged PRODUCER on a feature film. In calling "Saints and Soldiers" the film most likely (but by no means guaranteed) to become the new benchmark in cinematic quality among LDS Cinema and set a new record for response by movie critics... A lot of this is simply the numbers. It's Little's 2nd feature film. Everything else that is coming out over the next few months is the work of directors helming their first feature film (except "The Home Teachers," which should be a box office success and audience pleaser, just not a darling of the critics). So it's just the math. 2nd time vs. 1st time. And "Out of Step" was phenomenally good, especially given the conditions. Plus, there's the plot. Give reviewers a movie about guys in period costumes shooting at each other, vs. a movie about Mormon missionaries, a story from Scripture, a comedy about home teaching, or BYU students getting engaged... it's not hard to predict what they'll gravitate towards. * * * * * * * THE COLLECTORS TO PREMIERE AT THE SCERA - John Lyde's feature film "The Collectors" will premiere on the big screen at the SCERA Theater in Orem, Utah. The movie was made by an almost entirely LDS cast and crew, but is NOT an LDS Cinema movie. It is an action packed, but essentially family-friendly, martial arts movie. Director John Lyde has helmed many films before, including the feature-length "The Field is White" (about missionaries) and the short romantic comedy film "In the Service of God" (about love, adventure and home teaching). Both of these films are available on DVD and video from LDS bookstores worldwide. "The Collectors" was photographed by cinematographer Kels Goodman, and looks fantastic. One of the compelling aspects of the movie is the extremely authentic, realistic martial arts. No "wire-fu" or computer-generated fisticuffs. Everything you see is really the actors and martial artists doing what they really can do. Some of the nation's top martial artists are featured in the movie. Yet this isn't just a brain-dead action flick. Think Eisenstein crossed with Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee with the best parts of The Matrix, Philip K. Dick, Roger Corman, Ursula K. Le Guin, Steven Seagal and Orson Scott Card, and you've got the idea. This could very well be John Lyde's best film yet. The premiere will be held at Midnight on Friday night, September 5th at the SCERA Theater in Orem, Utah. Tickets can be purchased for $2.00 each at the door, or for $1.00 in advance from LDS Video Store: http://www.ldsvideostore.com PHOTOS: Here are some stills from "The Collectors": http://www.ldsfilm.com/photos/Collectors_DojoFight.jpg http://www.ldsfilm.com/photos/Collectors_Explosion.jpg http://www.ldsfilm.com/photos/Collectors_Splits.jpg http://www.ldsfilm.com/photos/Collectors_BigBadJoe.jpg http://www.ldsfilm.com/photos/Collectors_Kick.jpg * * * * * * * FOR TIME AND ALL ETERNITY - A 2004 video/DVD release is slated for Trevor Hill's "For Time and All Eternity." From http://www.aumfilm.org/time_eternity: FILM SYNOPSIS For Time & All Eternity is a series of documentaries exploring Mormon culture circumscribing the concept of eternal marriage. The series will be broken up into four 30 minute episodes: 1. Single, Mormon, and Searching for the One 2. The Lord Works in Mysterious Ways 3. LDS Divorce: When the Bubble Bursts 4. For Time & All Eternity It is to be released in Spring 2004. For Time & All Eternity is a interview-based documentary. We're looking for people who are willing to be a part of the film. * * * * * * * NOVEMBER RELEASE FOR LATTER-DAY NIGHT LIVE - The latest from HaleStorm Entertainment is "Latter-day Night Live." The feaure-length direct-to-video film features Latter-day Saint stand-up comedians, no doubt including but not limited to JOHN E. MOYER, the irascible screenwriter of "The Singles Ward", "The R.M." and "The Home Teachers." "Latter-day Night Live" will be released in November 2003. This is not long after the home video release of HaleStorm's feature film "The R.M.," which is slated to be on store shelves September 31, 2003. Will Latter-day Night Live" feature Roseanne Barr, who was raised as a Latter-day Saint Jew and was active as a youth and seminary leader? Probably not. Nor is it likely to feature Carmen Thompson, the former polygamous wife stand-up comic. But maybe Johnny B. will make an appearance. THOMSON TO DISTRIBUTE LYDE'S "MARIAH'S PRAYER" - Thomson Productions will distribute John Lyde's latest short film "Mariah's Prayer" on video and DVD. The film will soon be available at LDS Bookstores nationwide. Thomson is the distributor of Lyde's films "The Field is White" and "In the Service of God." "Mariah's Prayer" stars Lynne Carr, a Latter-day Saint actress who had a major supporting role (as the investigator with a smoking problem) in Lyde's "The Field is White"). Carr, a non-smoker, is best remembered as the mission president's wife in Richard Dutcher's feature film "God's Army." Carr also had a small role in "Fourth Witness, The Mary Whitmer Story" (1996). "Mariah's Prayer" also stars Richard Pratt, who appeared in both "In the Service of God" and "The Field is White." Other actors in the film are Maranda Christiansen, Ashley Christiansen and Abby Christiansen. "Mariah's Prayer" is an earnest, spiritual tale, and does not feature martial arts action. Lyde's movie! "The Collectors," which will debut at the SCERA Theater in Orem in September, is the one with martial arts action. LABUTE'S 'SHAPE OF THINGS' DVD RELEASE DATE, DETAILS - Latter-day Saint filmmaker and playwright Neil LaBute's feature film "The Shape of Things" will hit store shelves on September 23rd. The DVD features a feature-length commentary track by writer/director Neil LaBute, and a documentary titled "'The Shape of Things': From Stage to Screen", as well as a featurette called "Welcome to Mercy College. ("Mercy College" is the fictional college that is the setting for the movie. A number of people have said that it seems partially based on LaBute's alma mater BYU.) "The Shape of Things" is rather unique among movies in that it has only 4 characters (and 4 actors) in the whole movie. None of them are Latter-day Saints, which is a good thing considering how despicable they are. LE DIVORCE - Last weekend, "Le Divorce," co-starring non-churchgoing Latter-day Saint actor Matthew Modine in the 8th poster-billed, was the second highest grossing film in terms of per-screen average, bringing in an impressive $15,201 per screen while playing on 34 screens. This week, the film is playing in 180 screens, and while this helped it move up to the #15 spot for the weekend, grossing $942,594 an 82 percent increase from last weekend, its per-screen average dropped to a "mere" $5,237, which was still good enough for #13 in terms of per-screen average for the weekend. BECAUSE SUNDAY IS SPECIAL NOW ON DVD - "Because Sunday is Special," the animated film made by UVSC students, headed up by director Gary Christensen, has recently been released on DVD, about a year after it came out on video. The DVD and video are distributed by Covenant Communications, and are part of a growing set of DVDs and videos distributed by that book publisher. Covenant also recently released a new DVD featuring famed Latter-day Saint opera singer Michael Ballam. Covenant has long sold two videos featuring Ballam, including "Developing Divine Power," which is now out of print. Another upcoming Covenant title is an animated Primary Children's sing-along video and the Book of Mormon on DVD. (Not the Book of Mormon movie, but the actual full text of the Book of Mormon, being read on screen.) Covenant's best-selling titles are the LDS Film Classics DVDs, each with 4 or 5 BYU-made films, one headlined by "Johnny Lingo," the other headlined by "Cipher in the Snow." Covenan! t has nowhere near the size of the video/DVD product line offered by Thomson Productions, but has essentially equal market penetration with in the LDS market and appears to be an increasingly viable option for filmmakers looking to distribute to the LDS market. Apart from Thomson Productions and Covenant Communications, other major distributors to the market are Excel Entertainment (which has "Last Miracle for Lavell" coming out in a few weeks, and handles a number of LDS-made direct-to-video films in addition to its theatrically-released LDS Cinema titles) and Deseret Book. Candlelight Media is a new player which distributes a number of short inspirational films made by former BYU film students, as well as films from some other sources. 100% ALL-NEW HALESTORM WEBSITE - Did we mention that HaleStorm Entertainment has a band new website: http://66.206.16.14/ This is an exceptionally nice website, much better-looking than the Excel Entertainment, Zion Films, Suddenly Unexpected or Kels Goodman/Handcart websites. The site features trailers for "The R.M.", "The Singles Ward", and "The Best Two Years." Images on the top of the screen scroll by with scenes from "The Singles Ward", "The R.M." and "The Best Two Years." Logos (although they may be preliminary) can be seen for the upcoming HaleStorm video/DVD release "Latter Day Night Live" and the movie "Church Ball," slated for a 2005 release according to the site. The old HaleStorm Entertainment website can still be seen at: http://www.halestormentertainment.com. A photograph of the office building housing the HaleStorm offices is shown on the website, along with text saying that the company plans to be a permanent and leader in the Utah film industry. This represents a change from what director Kurt Hale and producer Dave Hunter used to tell reporters, which is that they were pla! nning to make 3 Latter-day Saint-themed movies and then begin to make movies for a more general audience. PHOTOS: AARON ECKHART IS BEN AFFLECK'S MISSION PRESIDENT FOR BEN'S 2-YEAR MISSION - Latter-day Saint actor Aaron Eckhart sends Ben Affleck on a 2-year mission in John Woo's upcoming "Paycheck," based on Philip K. Dick's short story. It's not a mission for the Church, of course... ...or is it? Photos: Ben Affleck with Aaron Eckhart: http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1808466030&cf=pg&photoid=487081&intl=us http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1808466030&cf=pg&photoid=487082&intl=us Teaser for "Paycheck": http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/paycheck.html Absolutely true statistic: Half of Philip K. Dick's books feature Utah or Latter-day Saint characters. Look it up in your local library, or at: http://www.adherents.com/lit /sf_lds.html. But PKD was NOT LDS. He was Episcopalian. BUSINESS ARTICLE ON UTAH FILM INDUSTRY, RYAN LITTLE AND KURT HALE PHOTO - See: http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08172003/business/business.asp This is a very interesting article, touching on the tax credits for film and television production that 41 states have adopted. Utah does not have any tax credits in place currently, but is considering doing so as the state has experienced a drop in production, although it still holds a position as one of the top five states in that area. We enjoyed the photo of Kurt Hale and Ryan Little on the set of "The R.M." We also thought it was amusing how the photo was completely inappropriate for illustrating the subject matter of the article (because HaleStorm and its chiefs come from within the state, and not outsiders lured here). Perhaps the Salt Lake Tribune is once again revealing its pro-HaleStorm bias... * * * * * * * FOUR DESERET NEWS ARTICLES ABOUT LDS CINEMA - This last weekend's Friday Entertainment section of the Deseret News was dominated by what SHOULD be the focus of the section every week: LDS Cinema. Why on earth the Deseret News wastes so much space on stuff like who Nicole Kidman was seen holding hands with at Spagos or who some third rate 1970s TV actor was suing over a real estate deal... I'll never know... But this week they got it right. 'Book of Mormon' coming to big screen - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510046961,00.html Article about the upcoming Gary Rogers movie about 1st and 2nd Nephi from the Book of Mormon. Details about the unique marketing/distribution plan: pre-selling tickets on the internet and going to whichever cities buy enough tickets to support the movie. Some details hinted at about massive response from surprising places. Brazil mentioned specifically. Producers felt Noah was right for Nephi - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510046962,00.html Largely interesting and worthwhile article about non-LDS actor Noah Danby. Article mentions Danby's bit appearances on 2 episodes of "Queer as Folk," but fails to point out that nobody cares -- except for the newspaper writers who have written about this. 'God's Army' kick-started LDS 'genre' - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510046953,00.html Chris Hicks, Deseret News' former movie critic and current Features editor, writes glowingly about Richard Dutcher while dissing everybody else. Mormon movie madness - http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510046951,00.html? Very good, detailed article about the whole LDS Cinema genre. Lots of numbers. LDSFilm.com's list of upcoming movies and our list of box office and budget data is quoted extensively. Talked to Excel Entertainment, the biggest distributor in the niche. Richard Dutcher mentions he's still working on "The Prophet." (The article doesn't mention that Kubrick was still working on "A.I." when he died.) Dutcher mentions that he would like to film "God's Army II" within about five months. To those of you who question this... "GA2" is an excellent idea, has a great script, strong actors committed to the project. I think it WILL get made, and I think it will be even better than "Brigham City," and easily better than any sequel to come out of Hollywood during the last decade. Especially if Sis. Knight is in it. * * * * * * * NUMBER OF LDS-MADE/LDS-THEMED VIDEOS AND DVDS AVAILABLE AT THE MAJOR ONLINE STORES - [Stores listed alphabetically. Statistics compiled August 14, 2003.] Deseret Book http://deseretbook.com Total videos and DVDs LISTED on website: 994 302 videos and DVDs are listed as permanently unavailable from the Internet, because they are out of print or no longer ordered. 391 videos and DVDs listed as "Special Order" (they are not in stock at Deseret Book warehouse, but can be special-ordered, which takes a few extra weeks for delivery). 330 videos and DVDs in stock and orderable through Deseret Book online. LDS-made/LDS-themed: 236 -------- LDS Direct www.ldsdirect.com Total videos and DVDs available on website: 21 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 20 -------- LDS Living www.ldsliving.com Total videos and DVDs available on website: 202 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 148 -------- LDS SuperStore www.ldssuperstore.com Total videos and DVDs available on website: 44 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 44 -------- LDS Video Store www.ldsvideostore.com Total videos and DVDs available on website: 242 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 242 -------- Seagull Book & Tape www.seagullbook.com Total videos and DVDs available on website: 55 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 50 -------- Sounds of Zion stores [34 bookstores have their own URL for a front page, but all of these lead to the same Sounds of Zion website and inventory. A different store code is tracked based on which front page user enters the site through.] Total videos and DVDs available on website: 110 LDS-made/LDS-themed: 96 [Note that whether or not items are in stock or not is addressed with regards to Deseret Book. Numbers of videos and DVDs available from other stores does not necessarily signify all titles listed are in stock.] * * * * * * * CASTING INDEPENDENT FILM IN UTAH - Independent Short filming in Utah during September, visit http://www.cavitymouth.com and register for casting information in Utah only. Contact: Jana Edgington (jana@cavitymouth.com) Phone: 801-450-6545. Source: Utah Casting Connection; And Action! Actor's Studio (http://www.actionacting.com); Michelle K. Wright SPONSORS FOR MICHELLE K. WRIGHT SHOW - [Press Release from Wright] Sponsors are being considered at this time for a Television Talk Show in SLC, UT. Great family project to become involved with, and exposure for your company. Please send your interest to Pirana Productions mkwright@peoplepc.com for more info. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] KRAKAUER, _Under The Banner of Heaven_ Reviews Date: 19 Aug 2003 18:09:58 -0700 (PDT) On its web site the church has posted some links to negative reviews of "Under The Banner of Heaven" from places like "The Economist", "The Wall Street Journal", "The Boston Globe" and "Pop Matters." It's an interesting selection. It's also interesting that the church would go to the trouble of rounding up these reviews. I don't think the institution has paid this kind of attention to a single book since "No Man Knows My History." http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showpackage/0,15367,3881-1---3-748,00.html ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Morgan B. Adair Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 19 Aug 2003 23:14:13 -0600 >>> Tammy Daybell 8/18/2003 9:49:04 AM >>> >>From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: > >Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even >caffeinated soft drinks... > >Gordon B Hinckley: Right. What's missing from the transcript is the brief pause between Larry's = question and Pres. Hinckley's response, just long enough for Pres. = Hinckley to ask himself, "do I want to go there?"=20 BYU doesn't sell drinks with caffeine, but no one has ever told the = students (or professors) not to drink them, as many do every day. BYU is = an alternate universe, with it's own laws that don't necessarily apply = anywhere else, not even the temple (you can wear a beard and serve as a = veil worker in the temple, but not as a BYU professor). MBA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dewey Remy" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 19 Aug 2003 20:53:55 -0700 During my short stint at the COB, it was common to see Church employees with well-worn, large, refillable cups crossing the street to the the ZCMI food court or to the little corner convenience store in the Gateway Apartment building (where Pres. Hinckley, Pres. Faust and Jana's great-aunt Madge live). While I begrudge no man or woman their daily morming stimulants, I think it ironic that those huge mugs, if filled with Pepsi or Coke, could hold the same amount of caffeine as two medium-sized cups of coffee (perhaps one shot of espresso?). The potential sugar content is pretty scary, too. Mormons are so quirky. You gotta love 'em. ;^) Literary tie-in: Hmmm....perhaps pointing out that the Church's "offend as few people as possible route" fits its official attitudes towards: the sale of caffeinated beverages in institutions overtly associated with the Church (I'm assuming one can buy Word of Wisdom violating beverages in the Church-owned Crossroads Plaza); the sale of potentially offensive books in Deseret Book stores; and the publishing of faith-offending, doubt-promoting literature and Church history scholarship? John Remy UC Irvine > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Thom Duncan > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:25 AM > To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks > > > > --- Original Message --- > >If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated > >drinks? > > BYU prefers to err on the side of ultra-orthodoxy. > This way, they get fewer phone calls from concerned > parents about the University, since it is the Lord's > University, facilitating "sin" in its children. > > The Church Offic Building is the same way. You can't > find a decent Diet Coke anywhere in the building. > Again, they are taking the ultra0conservative, offend > as few people as possible route. > > Let's remember that, in a recent interview with Larry > King, President Hinkeley replied in the afirmative > when King asked him if Mormons refrained from caffeine > drinks. I suspect it would be very difficult after > that answer (off-handed as it was) to sell coke > products at BYU or the Church. > > In reality, you can drink diet coke all you want and > never have to worry about losing a Temole Recommend, > so the standards are a little looser in the rank and > file church. > > Thom Duncan > > > -- > Thom Duncan > > > > > > -- > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > > -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 19 Aug 2003 23:24:28 -0700 Indeed, General Authorities do admit to making mistakes. But WHEN, WHERE and HOW makes a big difference. Elder Bruce R. McConkie was magnanimous in saying the he was wrong regarding Blacks and the Priesthood, and to forget what he said, or anyone one else said, other than Pres. Kimball. The problem is that our critics and enemies are not going to forget, and that for how many years did his assertions hold forth as doctrine and were expounded on by authors in the Church justifying them for a mulititude of reasons with some scripture mingled with tortured logic thrown in with some long held traditions that had been held by the angelo world for centuries. And we have been a Church that prides itself on breaking with "gentile" traditions. There were a lot of church members who used this as an excuse to mistreat any minorities, especially Blacks, by denying them work, paying lower wages than whites or cheating them, being able to eat in restaurants, use public restrooms, or find decent accomodations to stay the night should they be passing through Utah. I've read one account of a Black woman who saved for years to be able to come to Salt Lake to hear, "the world's greatest choir", and was refused admitance at the door of the Tabernacle. She was the decent person and asked the man if he could just leave the door open so she could listen and he did. Her children knew the story and years later one of them happened to be at an educational meeting in SLC and happened to mention the story and was invited and did go to see and hear the choir. I know that this type of thing went on all over the United States, but it pains me that it should've happened among the Saints who could've been the shining light on the hill and set the example. And I know there are personal stories of Saints who were, and their stories need to be told more often. Occasionally, the Brethren have to follow-up on something to clarify what was actually said and what it completely meant. At Gen.Conf last year, one of the GAs basically sounded like he guaranteed parents that no matter how much your kids screw up, even as adults, they will be returned to you in the eternities because of the sealing power of either being born in the covenant or being sealed as a family. To some of us, who are converts and still have parents living, that kind of hurt. I asked my husband, "Let me get this straight, your sister who has been inactive for years and has made some really sucky choices in life gets to go to the Celestial Kingdom because she is sealed to your parents? And because of your mom's faithfulness?" What happened to the doctrine of agency and personal accountability? I supposed someone like myself who is not sealed to a parent would be out of luck if they didn't live a righteous life.(And boy, was I worried). ;-) In April's conference, the message was clarified. That they may still belong to the parents is true, but if they have not lived an exmplary life, they will not inherit all that Christ has, period. Bits of this doctrine has floated around for years and I'm glad it didn't take close to a century to clear it up for all of us. Another phenomenon that happens that probably drives the Brethren nuts, is having someithing attributed to one of them, usually a Prophet or Apostle, and they go nuts trying to correct the story or quote attributed to them that they never said! Or something being quoted out of context, entirely changing the meaning. We've all heard someone say in Sunday School, "Well I've heard that the Prophet or Elder So-and-So said......I have a friend who would ask, "Do you have a source for that?" Usually followed by the quoter having a deer-in-the-headlights look and some sputtering. Some of these evolve into folk doctrines that are sometimes taught, as D. Mike mentioned, by local authorities even though they might be nothing more than an opinion expressed in answer to a question at a small leadership meeting and were never meant to expressed as a doctrine or practice. I think Pres. Hinckley has done a good job dealing with this and putting to rest a number of "commandments" that exist among us. When my son was still small I was feeling the pressure to have another one soon when I attended the broadcast of the Women's Conf. and he plainly spoke that although we do covenant to have children, when and how many is between the couple and the Lord. And he made a great many remarks about how a couple should be partners, about how they should treat one another, especially how the husband should treat the wife. I lived off of that talk for a long time feeling that there was a man who got what women want. It eventually was published as the pamphlet, "The Four Cornerstones of a Happy Home." And I want to express that I have so much love and admiration for Pres. Hinckley not just as a Prophet, but as a man. It is obvious that he likes women. Not in the earthy sense of things, but that he likes us as people. Respects us as a gender and for who we are as individuals. He is comfortable is the presence of women and not intimidated or put off by smart women. He likes intelligent women. Think what a rare quality that is in a man in his nineties. Incredible. When he had addresses the Women or the Young Women, he chooses his words carefully, but he chooses plain prose, easy to be understood. Especially giving something a title like, "How to Become the Woman that You Dream of." My daughter adores him too, and does listen to what he has to say even if she grouses about the "ear piercing thing." She hopes to be able to get the chance to meet him, gush all over him, and hug him some day soon. Gee, that felt like a testimony. Amen. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 10:42:32 -0500 Why not Denzel? I just heard they're making a movie of The Honeymooners with Cedric the Entertainer in the Jackie Gleason role. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JanaRiess@aol.com Subject: [AML] Re: Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 10:57:11 EDT In a message dated 8/19/03 11:20:30 PM, owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: >My guess is it's just marketing. So many Mormons buy into the myth that >we >shouldn't drink caffeinated drinks that BYU doesn't want to offend its >core >base of consumers. They sell plenty of varieties of chocolate, including >in >the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. Yes, I was in the BYU Bookstore last week and was amazed to see the enormous counter where one could buy every variety of chocolate under the sun. (Not that I complaineth . . . ) Jana R. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 10:59:25 -0500 --- Original Message --- >Matthew Lee wrote: > >> I must be missing something. When did General >> Authorities stop acknowledging that they make >> mistakes? I'm confident that if any General Authority >> were asked if he made mistakes he would respond with >> "Yes". > >Well, the recent statement of "We cannot lead you astray. It's >imposisble," comes to mind. > >But the real problem is not General Autorities not admitting they make >mistakes. It's the lower-tiered authorities who are not internalizing >that concept, and start using statements by General Authorities as if >those statements were from God himself. I just experienced this >phenomenon last Sunday from my bishop. That indeed is THE problem. I can't remember the exact quote but Elder Holland made a talk in which he said that young men shouldn't be required to wear white shirts while passing the Sacrament. The following week, our local leaders were preaching that the young men should all start wearing white shirts. It was amazing how this leap from moderate to mandate took only a week. I find this amazing from an organization behavior point of view. The General Authorties, preaching "generally" are often interpreted much more specifically locally. Tying this back into a literary context. Scott Bronson and Ronn! will remember a problem we once had while writing training scripts for the MTC. The middle manager between us and Elder Packard was setting up walls for something we wanted to do. Our producer was a degreed Instructional Designer so kinda knew the ropes. Our producer managed to get an interview with Elder Packard who, once apprised of our game plan, gave it the green light. His words: "You guys are the professionals. I trust you to make the right decision." -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 09:17:20 -0600 Since I've spent the past five years studying the race issue and its history in the Church, I have become intimately acquainted with terrible statements spoken over the pulpit and elsewhere from the time of Brigham Young onward, statements which are STILL WITH US in the form of folklore. I have wondered about the assurance which I hear quoted all the time: "The Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church astray. The prophet would be removed before God would let that happen." I don't have the wording exactly right, but that's the gist, spoken by Wilford Woodruff. I simply don't believe it. I believe there has to be some room for agency and conscience in the mind of the hearer, that we are not required to surrender our minds to someone else. I keep hearing that obedience is the first law of Heaven, but the scriptures show the Savior obeying his own conscience rather than the earthly, phariseical laws time and time again. He follows the law of compassion consistently (even when compassion comes in the form of a lash.) His example suggests to me that I should not be too hasty in accepting something which feels wrong to my heart. If a Church leader tells me that my black brothers and sisters are descendants of Cain, cursed to come through the flood and represent Satan through the lineage of Canaan (and I am paraphrasing John Taylor here), I have every right to reject that idea as contrary to the essential messages of the scriptures. I have asked my husband how he feels about President Woodruff's quote, how he can square the overtly racist things said by past prophets which allowed Latter-day Saints to justify their racism (which was a national epidemic, not confined to Mormonism)--which, to me, is perhaps among the most serious sorts of straying we can do, because it violates the essential element of Christianity: charity. If anyone feels justified in regarding other races as "less than" or somehow cursed or of lesser valiance (and I heard that one two weeks ago in Sunday school class), they have been led astray. Bruce said he understood the statement as referring to large movements, given in the context of the manifesto--that the Saints didn't need to fear that the prophet was leading them astray by abandoning polygamy. But every time I hear some of the racist folklore, I am sorely tempted to stand up and say, "By the way, that came from Parley Pratt, not God. Brother Parley was living in a society that accepted racism as a natural, even desireable condition and slavery as acceptable. He was working with LIMITED LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE. We now have further light and knowledge." When the false doctrine was spouted in that Sunday school class, I quoted Bruce R. McConkie's "I was wrong" speech. But I was summarily rebuked by the self-appointed authority on all things in our Sunday school class--a sweet old guy who often stands to make his comments and closes them in the name of Jesus Christ. He read Abraham 3:27--about great and noble spirits being chosen before the world was and then said that we needed to pray about this issue and we would all get the same answer, because truth does not vary. Was I just imagining that he was implying that indeed there were "less valiant" ones in the pre-existance? Hmmm. I wonder how many people have really looked at that verse and what follows it. In the chronology of the war in heaven, that particular council is held BEFORE Jehovah says, "Send me." ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeffress@xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 11:25:18 -0600 [MOD: Thanks to Terry for adding some information and facts to the discussion of this point.] Quoting "Eric D. Dixon" : > [BYU] sell[s] plenty of varieties of chocolate, including > in the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. Just to set the record straight . . . Undisputedly, coffee contains caffeine (C8 H10 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dihydro-1,3,7- trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione). Chocolate contains theobromine (C7 H8 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dimethyl-Zanthine,2,6- Dihydroxy-3,7-Dimethyl-Purine), which although structurally similar to caffine produces 1/10th the stimulating effect in the human metabolism [11]. Raw cocoa contains 1.5-3.0% theobromine. Depending on the researcher, chocolate contains 0.2-0.4% caffeine or none at all [1, 3]. But no one eats raw cocoa; you dilute it with sugar and other components. In commercial milk chocolate, this concentration gets diluted down to about 0.2% theomrobine and 0.03% caffeine. So in a 1oz (28g) Hershey Chocolate bar, you get about 56mg theobromine and 6mg caffeine [5, 6]. (As compared to the 46mg in 12oz Coke, 70mg in 8oz tea, and 100-150mg in 8oz coffee.) A 6mg dose of caffeine is similar to the amount found in a cup of decaffeinated coffee. Research shows that at this level, there is not an increase in metabolic performance or blood pressure [7, 8, 9]. To reach a physical dependence (occurring at 350mg caffeine per day), you would have to consume 58.3oz (3.6lb) of Hershey's chocolate each day [10], of course in the abscence of other caffeine-containing products. Caffeine levels in chocolate also do not affect brain function. For most research purposes, scientists consider 100mg of caffeine a low dose, and even at this level "caffeine did not affect short-term memory span or speed, long-term memory retrieval functions or focussed attention" [13]. If anything, the phenylethlyamine and anandamide in chocolate casuses more of the "high" or "addictin" effects than the caffeine or theobromine. Phenylethlyamine produces amphetamine-like effects, and anadamide has a similar structure to the THC in marijuana and produces similar metabolic reactions. Just in case you do regularly do consume caffeine, you can set your worries aside. Studies on caffeine consumption in mice show no adverse effects in fertility or reproduction [14]. Also, at regular doses, caffeine did not cause an increase in the rate of cancer, and in fact, helped reduce the incidence of cancer in the presence of other known carcinogens [15]. Although at high doses, researchers linked caffeine to testicular atrophy [15]. -- Terry Jeffress Resources: [1] http://www.mrkland.com/fun/xocoatl/science.htm [2] http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/chocolate/theobromine.html [3] http://www.mrkland.com/fun/xocoatl/caffeine.htm [4] http://coffeefaq.com/caffaq.html [5] http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_consumer/caffeine.shtml [6] http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_consumer/theobromine.shtml [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7485480&dopt=Abstract [8] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=79072203 [9] http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan99/915293960.Me.r.html [10] http://www.xs4all.nl/~4david/caffeine.html [11] http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/chocolate/theoJF.html [12] http://www.priory.com/pharmol/caffeine.htm [13] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12917744&dopt=Abstract [14] http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/RT-studies/RACB84044.html [15] http://monographs.iarc.fr/htdocs/monographs/vol51/04-caffeine.htm -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 11:35:41 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > >From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: > > Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even > caffeinated soft drinks... > > Gordon B Hinckley: Right. ____________________________________ >From Solemn Assembly - Spencer W. Kimball - Question from Audience of Regional Stake and Ward leaders assembled at the Oakland Inter-stake Center in 1980's: Does the Word of Wisdom prohibit the use of Coca-Cola and Pepsi? S.W.K.: "No, it only prohibits alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks, meaning coffee and tea. However, those of you who are working with the youth, should set a good example and refrain from these drinks while in their presence." Perhaps President Hinckley has received more recent revelation about this matter. I think that as we incorporate this kind of dialogue into our writing it should be shown by the rhetoric of our articles, or the actions and responses of our characters, that the choices concerning `The Word of Wisdom,' are up to the individual and by making those choices we accept the responsibility and consequences for our choices. After all, isn't this the whole purpose and result of `The War in Heaven'? Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 11:58:31 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- >> ___ Matthew ___ >> | But please help me understand where this idea of >> | errorless General Authorities is coming from. >> ___ > > Keeping this in terms of *literature* and not formal theology, I think > that clearly this idea arose because of the issue of obedience. When > people hear that one is to obey, then it is very easy to misinterpret > this as "it is correct." Of course it doesn't follow that obedience > always entails there being no error. > > I suspect that in large part this comes from Wilford Woodruff's famous > statement about not leading people astray. But once again it doesn't > follow that not leading astray is the same as having no mistakes. ______________________________________ The famous W.W. statement is probably correct at least for the most part. If a GA errs, it is usually on the safe side of correct choices. IE - President Hinckley's statement on the Mike Wallace 60 minute program, certainly couldn't lead anyone astray. It might mislead them to think G.B.H. was saying that if you drink Coca-Cola or Pepsi, you will surely go to hell. So it isn't necessarily the errors of the GA's we need to be worrying about, it's the misinterpretations and errors of the rank and file that get us into trouble. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 20 Aug 2003 12:16:29 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > There's the funniest reference to Mormonism in the new film SWAT. > > The protagonist brings in a couple of Dr Peppers (product placement) and the older agent says, > "Don't tell my wife I'm swilling this stuff," or something like that. "When we got married, I > converted to Mormonism and we're not to take anything into our bodies that would alter our > thinking or anything. We're supposed to keep our bodies clean." > > and later > > The protagonist comes into the office and there's the Mormon guy eating McDonalds, including > some more Dr Pepper. The guy says, "You're eating and drinking hellfire and damnation to your > soul," or something like that. And the Mormon guy responds, "Just don't tell my wife." > > Very cute. __________________________________ I agree that dialogue is funny, but it can be damaging too. This is a good example of the rank and file's misinterpretation of the guidance from our GA's in favor of safe choices, and spreading of false doctrine based on correct principles taught by our leaders. (see earlier post on ...errors among leaders). I'm sure the writer was trying to either spread some doctrine, or else deliberately vilify the intolerance of church doctrine, either way, it is incorrect and damaging to the church's public image. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Call for Volunteers: Nauvoo Theatrical Society Date: 20 Aug 2003 15:29:12 -0500 As some of you know, the Nauvoo Theatrical Society stopped production at the Center Street Theatre several months ago. The company that took over our space is now leaving the facility. So our platforms and lights are still there and have to be removed. This Saturday, Scott Bronson, Paul Duerden, Erick and I will be there to move pull the platforms apart and move them to a nearby storage unit. Many of you came by and helped us when we were moving in. If you would like to help us move out, please join us from 10 am this coming Saturday. 50 West Center Street. We should be able to get the stuff taken apart and in the truck in a couple of hours. To anyone who happens to be there at the right time, we'll also have pizza for all the hard workers. Any questions, feel free to call me at 735-6586, or respond privately to this email message (ThomDuncan@prodigy.net). Thanks to our loyal fans. -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 20 Aug 2003 14:43:09 -0500 Methinks thou doth protest too much. This is in no way damaging to the church's images. What it DOES do is make the Mormon people appear more human, which can never be a bad thing. "Yes, World, it is true. We don't all avoid drinking Diet Coke. Some of us don't pay a full tithing all the time. Sometimes we, like you, fail in our family responsibilities. We are just like you. Normal in every way." Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Dale W. NELSON, _A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Tribes_ (Review) Date: 20 Aug 2003 11:41:33 -0700 (PDT) The following information comes courtesy of Fred Pinegar: "The book is carried by Deseret Book, and most of the independent stores know about it. However, people looking for it may have to ask for it. Otherwise, it can be ordered directly through me, at 801-225-5401." He also adds, clarifying a portion of my review [admittedly a joke, but still -- for the record]: "[The book] is a work in progress which I produce in small batches. Before each new printing we go over it to insert new material and to address problems we or others have found. Hugh Nibley described the book as 'notes,' because when he saw the manuscript it was in a very preliminary stage." ~~William Morris __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] Re: Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 18:46:07 GMT Terry Jeffress: Just to set the record straight . . . To reach a physical dependence (occurring at 350mg caffeine per day), you would have to consume 58.3oz (3.6lb) of Hershey's chocolate each day . . . _______________ Well, then, I should just stomp right down to the bishop's office and let that counselor have it for giving my son a 5 lb (yes, pound) Hershey's chocolate bar for excellent attendance in deacon's quorum last year. Or, maybe I should be a responsible parent and just make sure he takes at least two days to eat it? Nah. That wouldn't be any fun, would it? [grin] Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 19 Aug 2003 14:40:20 -0600 Tammy Daybell wrote: > > >From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: > > Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even > caffeinated soft drinks... > > Gordon B Hinckley: Right. I have a friend whose bishop heard this and immediately concluded it was now official doctrine. Since then he includes avoiding caffeinated drinks as part of the requirements for getting a temple recommend. Another example of doctrine made up as we go along that plagues our church, along the lines of "The prophet said not to see R-rated movies." -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 12:54:52 -0600 Thom Duncan wrote: > > Why couldn't an unknown have been cast? It worked > well for "Ghandi" and "Superman" making stars out of > both men. Because Zion Films is not a big budget movie studio with lots of money to gamble. Dutcher has to do everything he can to assure a profitable return on his investors' money. Everyone knows a bankable star is an important ingredient to that. Heck, it's an important ingredient to raising the money in the first place. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:02:57 -0600 John Dewey Remy wrote: > > During my short stint at the COB, it was common to see Church employees with > well-worn, large, refillable cups crossing the street to the the ZCMI food > court or to the little corner convenience store in the Gateway Apartment > building (where Pres. Hinckley, Pres. Faust and Jana's great-aunt Madge > live). While I begrudge no man or woman their daily morming stimulants, I > think it ironic that those huge mugs, if filled with Pepsi or Coke, could > hold the same amount of caffeine as two medium-sized cups of coffee (perhaps > one shot of espresso?). The potential sugar content is pretty scary, too. As a recently diagnosed diabetic who has become enlightened in the ways of sugar, I'd recommend everyone be orders of magnitude more concerned about consuming all that sugar than any accompanying caffeine. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 14:22:09 -0500 At 02:41 PM 8/19/03 -0600, Margaret Young wrote: >Well, if we're casting Joseph Smith based on how many women will swoon >at the first screening, my vote definitely goes with Denzel Washington. >Casting him might be expensive, but it would add some really interesting >plot devices to the script and probably increase marketability. But would it play in Provo? -- Ronald W. ("Ronn!") Blankenship mailto: ronn.blankenship@att.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:33:34 -0600 [MOD: I really, really don't want to get into a discussion of whether the specific items Michael lists later in his post are or aren't official policy, how justified they are, etc. In fact, it's off-topic for AML-List to go there. But I think there are some potentially interesting questions about how you depict issues like this in Mormon literature, particularly with the variety of attitudes we encounter about them in the Church. So while the issues themselves aren't on-topic for AML-List, attitudes about them--as I see it--are. If we can go that direction in this discussion, I'll let it continue. If not, I'll have to regretfully close it down.] Margaret Young wrote: > > Since I've spent the past five years studying the race issue and its > history in the Church, I have become intimately acquainted with terrible > statements spoken over the pulpit and elsewhere from the time of Brigham > Young onward, statements which are STILL WITH US in the form of > folklore. I have wondered about the assurance which I hear quoted all > the time: "The Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church > astray. The prophet would be removed before God would let that happen." > I don't have the wording exactly right, but that's the gist, spoken by > Wilford Woodruff. I simply don't believe it. That statement, and a more recent paraphrasing of it by, I think, Elder Nelson, is deeply imbedded in the Mormon psyche as an excuse for blindly obeying church leaders (in spite of our protests that we don't blindly obey them) and in continually preaching that obedience is a primary virtue (obedience to God, sure--but to other human beings?) What I don't understand is, how do we know for sure that Woodruff and Nelson and whoever else aren't making a mistake in the very act of preaching that peculiar Mormon brand of infallibility? > I keep hearing > that obedience is the first law of Heaven, but the scriptures show the > Savior obeying his own conscience rather than the earthly, phariseical > laws time and time again. He follows the law of compassion consistently > (even when compassion comes in the form of a lash.) His example > suggests to me that I should not be too hasty in accepting something > which feels wrong to my heart. Christ saved his most flaming condemnations for the lawyer and Pharisee "hypocrites." We tend to think of the Pharisees as "them" while Christ and his followers are "us." What we seem to overlook is, the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders of the time _were_ the true church back then. They had the authentic priesthood of God, officiated in the temple ordinances which Christ respected and partook in, and were all the church there was. We're so used to the "Great Apostacy" where the church and the priesthood entirely left the world, that we forget that apostacies previous to that were not absolute. The church can and has gone astray many times without actually disappearing. We read cycles of that over and over again in the Book of Mormon. So what's to say the modern church can't go astray now and then over one thing or another? The answer--nothing guarantees us it can't! And how did Christ handle the elements of doctrine that had gone astray in the "true church" of his time? He utterly ignored them and obeyed only the pure teachings of the law of Moses. Should we not be more like Jesus in this aspect too? When Jesus condemns the Pharisees, I think he's speaking as much to us in modern times as he was to his contemporaries. Are we piling on our own set of ad hoc rules that we demand each other live, because we somehow don't think the principles of the gospel are good enough to teach us to govern ourselves? Caffeinated drinks. R-rated movies. Ear piercings and tattoos. Modesty in clothing defined to the inch. Bellybuttons defined as immodest. Girls shamed and thrown out of church dances--even nonmembers who didn't know any better--because they didn't follow the above two rules to the letter. Facial hair considered suspect. Defining "appropriate" art--not just privately for ourselves, but for everyone else too. Declarations of when and how sex should be depicted in literature, or spoken about at all--again for everyone else. Intricate and intrusive liquor laws in Utah. Laws defining all manner of nudity--even the most innocent kind--as lewdness or child abuse in Utah. Demands that public--emphasis on public--resources like swimming pools and such be closed on Sunday and Monday evening in communities of Utah. Declaring a harmless school mascot as evil, just because it's a cartoon devil, as recently happened in a Utah community. Are we sure we're not the Pharisees too? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 12:32:10 -0700 My take on this -- context is everything. The famous Woodruff statement was made within the context of the decision to end the practice of PM. It is not apparent that he intended it to extend over any other subject. Part of the folklore is that this statement applies to *every* decision made by a GA. On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:17:20 -0600, Margaret Young wrote: > Since I've spent the past five years studying the race issue and its > history in the Church, I have become intimately acquainted with terrible > statements spoken over the pulpit and elsewhere from the time of Brigham > Young onward, statements which are STILL WITH US in the form of > folklore. I have wondered about the assurance which I hear quoted all > the time: "The Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church > astray. The prophet would be removed before God would let that happen." > I don't have the wording exactly right, but that's the gist, spoken by > Wilford Woodruff. I simply don't believe it. -- ------------------ Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com or jeffneedle@tns.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 12:33:29 -0700 Because then a whole lot of LDS would have to deny him the priesthood, and that might make for a very interesting plotline... On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:42:32 -0500, Thom Duncan wrote: > Why not Denzel? I just heard they're making a movie of The Honeymooners > with Cedric the Entertainer in the Jackie Gleason role. ------------------ Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com or jeffneedle@tns.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:39:16 -0600 Bill Willson wrote: > So it isn't necessarily the errors of the GA's we need to be worrying about, > it's the misinterpretations and errors of the rank and file that get us into > trouble. But since one nearly always results in the other, we do need to worry. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 14:43:02 -0500 At 10:59 AM 8/20/03 -0500, Thom Duncan wrote: >Tying this back into a literary context. Scott >Bronson and Ronn! will remember a problem we once had >while writing training scripts for the MTC. The >middle manager between us and Elder Packard was >setting up walls for something we wanted to do. Our >producer was a degreed Instructional Designer so kinda >knew the ropes. Our producer managed to get an >interview with Elder Packard who, once apprised of our >game plan, gave it the green light. His words: "You >guys are the professionals. I trust you to make the >right decision." OTOH, when I suggested that we make the investigator in one of our videos=20 black, that suggestion got bounced upstairs from person to person (though I= =20 don't know precisely who got involved) before the word came back down, "No,= =20 you can't do that, because the Church isn't baptizing many blacks.=B9 You= =20 can make him Hispanic, though." So he got a stereotype Hispanic name like= =20 Hernandez or Melendez or something like that in the script. Of course,=20 when it came time to shoot the finished product, the actor they got to play= =20 the part was drawn from the available pool of talent: typical Happy Valley= =20 white bread. ______ =B9Which was sorta my point in wanting to make him black: if those who saw= =20 the video saw a black investigator, maybe it would inspire them to share=20 the Gospel with more black people . . . (FWIW, this was in IIRC 1986 or= 1987.) -- Ronald W. ("Ronn!") Blankenship mailto: ronn.blankenship@att.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:41:05 -0600 Bill Willson wrote: > > From: "Cathy Wilson" > > > Very cute. > __________________________________ > > I agree that dialogue is funny, but it can be damaging too. > This is a good example of the rank and file's misinterpretation of the > guidance from our GA's in favor of safe choices, and spreading of false > doctrine based on correct principles taught by our leaders. (see earlier > post on ...errors among leaders). I'm sure the writer was trying to either > spread some doctrine, or else deliberately vilify the intolerance of church > doctrine, either way, it is incorrect and damaging to the church's public > image. Or maybe the writer was just trying to provide a cute moment in the movie. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:49:43 -0600 You can't wear a beard and officiate in the Jordan River Temple. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 15:01:30 -0500 At 11:25 AM 8/20/03 -0600, jeffress@xmission.com wrote: >[MOD: Thanks to Terry for adding some information and facts to the >discussion of this point.] > >Quoting "Eric D. Dixon" : > > [BYU] sell[s] plenty of varieties of chocolate, including > > in the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. > >Just to set the record straight . . . > >Undisputedly, coffee contains caffeine (C8 H10 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dihydro-1,3,7- >trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione). > >Chocolate contains theobromine (C7 H8 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dimethyl-Zanthine,2,6- >Dihydroxy-3,7-Dimethyl-Purine), which although structurally similar to >caffine produces 1/10th the stimulating effect in the human metabolism= [11]. Just to nit-pick=97and aren't all writers nit-pickers?=97there are a couple= of=20 small errors in the above. It's spelled "xanthine." (I know: my=20 spell-checker doesn't recognize it, either.) Caffeine is indeed=20 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine, theobromine is 3,7-dimethylxanthine. A third=20 member of the family is theophylline, or 1,3-dimethylxanthine, which is=20 more common in tea than in coffee or chocolate, and is used in the=20 treatment of asthma (prescription brand name "Theo-dur", etc.). And just=20 to be complete, there is a fourth compound called paraxanthine, which is=20 1,7-dimethylxanthine, but I'm not aware of any common use for it. Also, an important note: while as Terry reports above theobromine has only= =20 a fraction of the stimulating effect of a similar amount of caffeine on the= =20 human metabolism, dogs especially are quite sensitive to the effects of=20 theobromine, and the theobromine in only a small amount of chocolate will=20 kill a dog, so be sure to keep your chocolate out of the reach of your=20 pets. Besides, you want it all for yourself, don't you? We now dismiss chemistry class and return you to your regularly scheduled=20 discussion of Mormon literature . . . -- Ronald W. ("Ronn!") Blankenship mailto: ronn.blankenship@att.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul VanDenBerghe" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 14:05:43 -0600 Thom wrote: That indeed is THE problem. I can't remember the=20 exact quote but Elder Holland made a talk in which he=20 said that young men shouldn't be required to wear=20 white shirts while passing the Sacrament. The=20 =66ollowing week, our local leaders were preaching that=20 the young men should all start wearing white shirts. =20 It was amazing how this leap from moderate to mandate=20 took only a week. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The great "White Shirt" controversy will be a longstanding debate for years= = to come. Just to clarify Elder Holland's stance, here are his actual words: "May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons,= = teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in th= e= Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen a= s= a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and= = an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and = onto your missions. "That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We = do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about = anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can = teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As = President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacrednes= s= of the holy sacrament (see Conference Report, Oct. 1956, p. 89). --Jeffrey R. Holland, "This Do in Remembrance of Me," Ensign, Nov. 1995, 68 I wish what we remembered and talked about from this conference talk is the= = part about not wanting our deacons or priests to be "unduly concerned about= = anything but the purity of their lives." Not the part about they should all= = wear a white shirt. A humorous little anecdote happened to my wife and I while driving with her= = older brother who had become a new bishop in Alaska. We were discussing the= = sometimes seemingly pharisaic pronouncements from individual bishops in = various wards throughout the church. My wife's brother, who tends to = gravitate to a more conservative opinion that does she, expressed that he = wanted all the deacons, teachers, and priests to wear white shirts for the = sacrament. My wife was making the point that we should be teaching them mor= e= along the lines of "purity of their lives," or the importance of their = personal worthiness, not their personal wardrobe. It's fine to teach about = a= white shirt symbolizing purity, but let's make sure people understand = that's what it is, a symbol. "That way we won't have all the youth of the = Church growing up believing that a white shirt is a requirement to pass the= = sacrament." Her brother replied, "Oh, nobody believes that wearing a white shirt is a = requirement." =46rom the back seat came the quick, surprised, and earnest response from = his teenage daughter, "It's not a rule?" I can imagine this scene fleshed out a bit in a story, novel, or play. It = would effectively make the point that we should be trying to move beyond = appearances; move beyond the letter of the law to the spirit of the law. Paul VanDenBerghe --- This message may contain confidential information, and is intended only for= = the use of the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] Being a Mormon Actor Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:31:38 -0700 > So, how do we respond to such an environment? Some of us choose to step > away from it and try to grow up a bit more before we go back to give it > another shot. Maybe we pursue some other dreams, like a family or writing, > or both, etc. Maybe we're the weaklings of the bunch, or just extremely > wise, I know not. Others tough it out, holding their own, and improving > their social skills, strengthening their backbone, finding humor in > situations, or creating opportunities for themselves and creating a world in > which they can make up the rules. These ones, I believe are the heros. > Finally, there is the artist who wants to join in, wants to stop having to > fight against temptation. Maybe he no longer remembers what the fight was > once about, because, hey, these other people are really wonderful people > too. Or maybe he or she decides or realizes that the fight was never real > to them anyway. Perhap a mormon artist can redefine their faith to > themselves and make that other world fit in, and somehow embracing that > world makes them more Christlike. There may be a hint of truth to that > theory. But these folks are the majority. I bet there are a lot more Ryan > Goslings and Eliza Dushkus out there than we know. I want to thank Diana for this post. I've always kind of assumed it would be like she describes in the acting/theater world, but I didn't really know. It all comes down to living in the world without being a part of it. It can be a very tricky balance at times. I know someone who was studying to be an opera singer, but he ended up dropping out of the program. I've never talked to him about it personally, but I'd heard that he did so partially because of the cultural environment. He wasn't comfortable with it. This is an issue I think about a lot, because I love to go see underground bands play at little bars. The drinking/smoking doesn't bother me and I'm never tempted to try it. (Well the smoke is an irritant, but that's about it.) I was invited to see a local band play at a private party recently, and I figured there'd be drugs there. I was just hoping there wouldn't be anything hardcore like heroin or cocaine. If there was I didn't see any sign of it. Lots of pot, though. (Just like high school!) Susan M -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: [AML] Abuse in the Church (was: Dutcher on Krakauer) Date: 20 Aug 2003 13:48:30 -0700 I asked Thom what source he based his statement about the high incidence of spousal abuse in the Church on. He replied: > I'm basing my assumption that the percentage is high > enough to have interested the Brethren to the extent > that not a General Priesthood meeting goes by but that > they don't mention it as a serious problem. > > Thom Duncan I don't recall that the Brethren have said there is a high incidence of spousal or child abuse in the Church, per se, but I'm guessing any amount of abuse, in any form, is considered an unacceptable and egregious breach of covenants and of the individual dignity as a Child of God each person deserves. In other words, any abuse is too much, and warrants a serious rebuke from the Brethren. Does anyone know where there might be reliable stats about this issue? Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi's e-mail" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 14:56:06 -0600 Thanks to everyone for their casting responses (both the funny and the serious). I said I would take responses seriously (except the obviously joking), but in one case I respectfully have to disagree: Hayden Christensen can't act. Go watch SWII again and notice how the kid telegraphs and indicates every single "emotional" reaction in the movie. He's hideously awful the more you watch him. Just my opinion, of course! Jongiorgi Enos -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roy Schmidt" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 20 Aug 2003 15:17:49 -0600 Not quite right. Temple workers, including veil workers, are clean shaven as of two years ago. An exception MAY be granted if a beard is required for medical reasons. Roy Schmidt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred C Pinnegar Subject: Re: [AML] Dale W. NELSON, _A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Date: 20 Aug 2003 16:19:22 -0600 The retail price for Nelson's book on the Lost Tribes is around $20, and it is available through Deseret Book, but they may have to order it in or look for it on the bottom shelf. Most independent LDS bookstores are aware of it because I bother them about it all the time, but you can order it directly through me if you want to. I will give AML members a price break. Call me at 801-225-5401. In addition, I recently reprinted Paris Anderson's stunning little book, Tough-Luck, Sitting Bull's Horse. Regards, Fred Pinnegar, Owner FCP Publishing -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darvell Hunt Subject: [AML] Re: ROWLING, J.K., _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ (Review) Date: 21 Aug 2003 01:38:13 GMT Maybe there's hope for me as a writer after all. Veering a little bit from the original post on Harry Potter, I'd like to comment on my reading of _Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets_ by J.K. Rowling that has lifted a bit of the doubt from my own mind of whether or not my writing has any hope of being published. Near the end of the book, I read a sentence that referred to Lord Voldemort as "the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin." I've read the last few chapters about three times because I like the ending and I'm trying to figure out what makes Rowling's stories so interesting to millions of readers. When suddenly I realized that Lord Voldemort could not be an ancestor of Salazar Slytherin, but rather a descendant. I smiled big. If Rowling can make a word-use blunder like that, maybe there's hope for me. I've discovered that some (maybe later?) editions have this word-use error corrected. And who knows, maybe a copy editor got it wrong instead and actually changed the correct word into an error. I know my editor for a local newspaper has done that to my writing before, much to my chagrin--because readers probably think it was me who made the error. But who cares if it was her or not! I know I'm not perfect and if I can see that somebody who is as sucessful (and now rich!) as J. K. Rowling and can still make mistakes like this, then maybe I should pick up my pen again (okay, keyboard) and start a new project. I think I will. Thanks J.K.! ;) Darvell Hunt P.S. Please don't point out errors in this post. As much fun as it was to see J.K. Rowling falter, I don't need anybody to notice when I do! Not until you can pick up my book in the local bookstore, anyway! ;) ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 20 Aug 2003 21:38:48 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > Why not Denzel? I just heard they're making a movie > of The Honeymooners with Cedric the Entertainer in the > Jackie Gleason role. > > Thom In this light, maybe Denzel would work better for the REMAKE of the Joseph Smith movie. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: [AML] Religious Fundamentalists as Murderers Date: 20 Aug 2003 19:51:17 -0600 I'm a few days behind on posts, so if this has already been covered, I apologize. Dianna Graham mentioned wanting a book about how murderers decide to become murderers, that it is a choice. There are actually a couple out there that I have found fascinating and very helpful in writing characters. John Douglas, formerly of the FBI and the foremost developer of profiling, has written several books about this very thing, and although he can describe certain characteristics that a killer will likely have, he is emphatic about the point that murderers' actions are choices and not inevitable because of the way they were raised. *The Anatomy of Motive* was great, as was the one (title escapes me) where he profiles the major murder cases in history from Jack the Ripper to Jon Benet. I think his first one was called *Journey into Darkness.* They are anything but dull downers. I heard he used to work in Provo law enforcement and was LDS--but I'm not positive on that. Annette Lyon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 20 Aug 2003 21:47:11 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- > So it isn't necessarily the errors of the GA's we need to be worrying about, > it's the misinterpretations and errors of the rank and file that get us into > trouble. > And a big reason for misinterpretation by the rank and file is the widespread desire to have church leaders prescribe all kinds of behavior and rules that ought to be left to personal consideration and inspiration. Part of the reason we even have discussions like these is that there are a lot of church members who want to be told what to do in every aspect of their lives. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Irreantum Proofers Needed Date: 20 Aug 2003 17:01:56 -0600 The AML invites volunteer proofers to review the summer 2003 issue of Irreantum for typos and errors before it goes to press. This issue is largely devoted to LDS romance. A PDF of the issue is expected to go out on Tuesday, Sept. 2, and all corrections would be due back by Tuesday, Sept. 9. (If the PDF is ready sooner or later, those dates would be adjusted to allow a full week for proofing.) Not only do you help Irreantum be much more professional, but your volunteer work can be claimed as resume skill or experience. The AML will give references for competent volunteers. If you can help, drop me a line, and we'll send you the PDF as soon as it's ready. Thanks, Chris Bigelow chris.bigelow@unicitynetwork.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Being a Mormon Actor Date: 20 Aug 2003 23:45:24 -0600 On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:08:05 -0600 "David and Dianna Graham" writes: > here's a little tidbit from a house-wife, would-be actress A very nice tidbit it was. Now here's a tidbit from me; a different perspective. Having standards is not necassarily prohibitive to having an acting career. Having said that, I DO believe having standards will effect how long it might take for that career to mature. The more stringent your standards, the longer it will take simply because you limit the number of projects for which you are available. Each actor will have to decide for her/himself what those standards will be. EVERY actor will have their own line in the sand. Even Mormon actors. So, it is possible, I believe, to be a Mormon AND have a successful acting career. Now, having said that, I must also say that in order to be an ACTOR at the level we're talking about here, I believe it would be nearly impossible (though not completely impossible) to become that actor and remain a fully committed Mormon. Becoming a star requires a singleness of purpose. Achieving a goal like that forces one to give up a lot of things. EVERYTHING COSTS SOMETHING. You have to choose your master, because every master demands absolute devotion. There are quite a few really fine actors among us who are also Mormons, but have chosen to be mothers and fathers, husbands and wives before they raise the flag of "Great Actor." Notice how Dianna referred to herself as a house-wife first. She is one of those very fine actors I just mentioned. Add to that list people like Shelly Graham, Kim Abunuwara, Chris Clark, Elwon Bakly, Ivan Crosland, Jeremy Selim, Susan Milne. So much talent. That you've never heard of. There are some who would say that the talents of these fine folk are being wasted on domesticity. I can say with authority, I believe, that it's a whole lot harder to be a GOOD dad and husband than it is to be a GREAT actor. I would rate myself a FAIR dad and husband and a PRETTY DARN GOOD actor. And let me tell you this, I could give up acting and writing and never be as good at fathering as I could be great at acting and writing if I gave up fathering. You want a really famous really talented really mormon Mormon actor? That's gonna be tough. Really tough. J. Scott Bronson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] FW: Eric D. Snider update: All Fired Up Date: 21 Aug 2003 08:51:42 -0600 Eric Snider said to forward this to any interested parties, so here it is. Frankly, I can't quite grasp why he was fired. -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:21 PM To whom it may concern -- The short version of this story is, as the result of being fired, I no longer work at The Daily Herald. The long version follows. I wrote a news story on Aug. 8 about the Grove Theatre in Pleasant Grove, Utah, being forced to shut down its production of Neil Simon's "Rumors" because Samuel French, Inc., which handles the copyright, learned the theater was altering some of the dialogue. This is against copyright laws, and faced with either doing it chock-full of profanity or not doing it at all, the theater chose to not do it at all. Before the theater made its decision, I spoke with Samuel French about possible copyright violations. The Samuel French people led me to understand they didn't act on anonymous information (which is what I was providing), and that they had already heard about this anyway. When the word came down from them officially, they said they were acting on info from Simon's lawyer, not from an anonymous tipster. All of this led me to believe that though I had spoken with them, it was not my conversation that had led to the play closing. Here's where I made my mistake, which cost me my job: I ought to have told my editors at the Herald that I had been involved, even though I believed my involvement to be ultimately irrelevant. At the very least, I should have disclosed that and asked that another reporter cover the story. It might have been appropriate to disclose my involvement in the story itself, too. But I didn't tell my editors, and when they subsequently learned of it, they fired me for an ethics violation. I made an error in judgment; I freely admit that. I ought to have spoken up at the time. I'm sending this e-mail to everyone so that there is no mystery or gossip about why I left the Herald. I want to be up front about it, and to admit my mistake. Feel free to send the relevant details of this e-mail to anyone you think may be curious about it. Let me also caution budding would-be journalists: Don't work for The Daily Herald! Make one mistake, and they fire your sorry behind! But I jest. While I think the firing was an over-reaction, and one that newspapers are keen to make nowadays in order to prove to the public how noble and honest they are, I also think the editor who made the decision honestly believes he was doing what he had to do. You can't fault a guy for that. By the same token, I hope I have not lessened my esteem in your eyes (if indeed there was esteem to begin with). I made a mistake, an error in judgment. I misjudged the facts and misjudged how everything would look. If you are a colleague of mine, or a business associate, I hope you will forgive any damage I have done to the credibility of professional journalists. Please note that this e-mail address, eric@ericdsnider.com, is how you can contact me from now on, and I hope you will. To my friends and family, I hope you will look upon me as the same sort of fellow you've always known, and whom you probably already knew was not perfect. To my readers, I apologize for what will be a sudden dearth of "Snide Remarks" columns (they are too hard to write to do them for free) and only as many movie reviews as money for admission tickets will allow. (Free time will not be a problem.) I hope that you, too, will forgive my mistakes. Best wishes, Eric D. Snider P.S. In the "silver lining" department, this frees me up to return to my first love: pizza delivery. Does anyone know of any openings? P.P.S. That P.S. aside, I actually DO need a job. Also, now would be a GREAT time to buy those "Snide Remarks" books you've been putting off purchasing. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 21 Aug 2003 09:17:34 -0600 Ah, yes, Church Office Building memories. What kept me from being translated while I worked at the Ensign was, most mornings, I did a double-whammy sin: jaywalked across the street to that convenience store to purchase real Coke, not only for me but for several coworkers. And I always saw at least one other group of beefy-looking COB employees doing the same thing, their ties and suit coats flapping as they ran across the street illegally. One earnest guy stopped me one time to warn me about the jaywalking, and I clapped him on the shoulder and said, "Thanks, good brother, now mind your own business." Before I arrived at the COB in 1993, I believe they handed out special mugs and made a rule that only those mugs could be used in the building for any kind of drink, but the rule had fallen into disuse by the time I arrived. One time at an Ensign retreat, the secretary brought a cooler full of real Coke, Pepsi, etc. A general authority was in attendance, and I found a perverse pleasure in cracking open a cold one in front of him. And he did do a double-take. Oh, another thing I did to avoid being translated was listen to Metallica's black album in my office while editing general conference talks (sometimes while wearing my purple shirt). Yes, I was just a little passive aggressive at the COB. You down with COB? Yeah, you know me. Chris Bigelow -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: [AML] Great and Noble Ones Date: 21 Aug 2003 09:58:24 -0600 Shortly after I posted my diatribe about the misinterpretation of the Book of Abraham, specifically the scripture referring to =93great and noble ones=94 selected in the pre-earth life to be leaders, I attended a viewing and funeral for the husband of a good friend of mine. He drowned a week ago in a kayaking accident. As I embraced my friend, I told her how grateful I was that she had found Mike (Perkins=97former chair of BYU=92s Communications department). She is so dear to me that = it mattered greatly for her to have a good marriage. She said, =93You have that, too. We=92re so lucky, Maggie. We=92re so lucky. We got great = and noble ones.=94 In that context, I wasn=92t at all of the mind to say anything like, =93So are you implying that other people aren=92t great = and noble?=94 I was deeply moved by what she said=97and in awe that she = could say how lucky we were when her husband was in his coffin. I do indeed see great and noble men and women in many settings on this earth. I don=92t know if they were born great, made great or had =93greatness = thrust upon =91em=94, but whatever they=92ve gone through or chosen to become, = they are NOW great and noble. I would love to have everyone read the talk Garold Davis (my friend=92s father) gave at Mike=92s funeral. I found = it inspired and inspiring. He spoke of a dream he had on Sunday wherein he saw Mike speaking with an angel during the terrible day of his drowning. Garold awoke from the dream but was still seeing the vision and hearing the conversation. He said he believed it was inspiration. In the dream, the angel was comforting Mike, who was witnessing his own body being dashed against rocks and branches in the river=97and worse, was witnessing the horror of his family, who saw the whole thing. The angel said, =93This was an accident. We could have interceded, but we were = not authorized to do so. You were to have been a stake president and a mission president, but someone else will take those callings now. There is work for you here.=94 The angel then saw how agitated Mike was at = the horror his family was experiencing, and explained that the horror would be transformed to holiness, and that Mike=92s family would receive a special blessing, a mantle of protection. They would be subject to temptation, but would receive special protection from the powers of the adversary. There=92s much more and I wish I could remember it all. I = was so grateful that I heard NONE of the clich=E9s we usually hear at funerals=97about God needing the person who has left us. I was grateful to have the fact of accidents and tragedies be openly acknowledged. And more than anything, I was astounded at the greatness and nobility of my friend. As she and her children watched Mike die in this terrible way and realized that he was dead and they could not even get to him to rescue the body, my friend pulled her children into an embrace (they were standing on a rock in the river) and said, =93Satan will try to divide us and have us blame God for this. But we will not allow that to happen. We will be strong and we will be together.=94 Because my first acquaintance with this friend was 30 years ago, we have known each other in moments of tremendous insecurity, silliness, stupidity, etc. It is marvelous to see someone you know and love reveal their greatness. Interestingly, my friend=92s dad was a childhood friend of my mother in Idaho Falls. Mom attended the funeral with me and said afterwards how impressed she was by Garold=97who was =93a terror=94 in his childhood. = For me, the whole experience of Mike=92s death and the family=92s response = to it has shown me again the CORE of our faith. Surely there=92s plenty we = can pick away at. There=92s probably not one Church leader who hasn=92t = said something a little silly at some point. But the core of this faith=97which we MUST know and cling to if we are to stay in it=97is the revelation of God to man, and the revelation of our own potential. Our religion is not comprised of the summation of historical facts or even of inspirational pioneer stories and quotes from general authorities. It is founded on the principles of God=92s very real awareness of us, evidenced by His calling Joseph by name; it is founded on the concept that we can become beings of glory through the grace of Jesus Christ and if we are true and faithful to the gospel; it is founded upon the priesthood, which binds us to our Lord, seals us to our families, and gives us power to transcend tragedy and to bless and be blessed. There are these moments when we leave the somewhat irrelevant discussions and participate in the heart-wrenching efforts to unite ourselves and give comfort=97when we REALLY live up to our covenants to mourn with those = that mourn=97or when we (like my friend standing with her children on the = rock) defy the powers of Satan that would divide us and have us blame God for our personal tragedies and maybe for institutional errors. These moments show me the core of my faith and remind me why I still believe. =20 ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Chamberlain" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 21 Aug 2003 07:20:18 -1000 Just and interesting schizophrenia: I was at the Church-owned Polynesian Cultural Center a few weeks ago and at the Luau I noticed that all of the drinks at the soda fountain were caffeine free, yet right next to the soda fountain was a bank of six or seven coffee pots. Sorta funny I thought. Peter Chamberlain Project Engineer Westcon Microtunneling (808) 258-3164 pchamberlain@westcon.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 21 Aug 2003 10:24:36 -0700 I've been fortunate enough to have leaders who got irritated by ward members who wanted them to make their every decision for them. One of my bishops had a big wood placard on his desk that said in big letters: "HAVE YOU PRAYED ABOUT IT?" And on occasion, some of the GAs have expressed some exasperation about members being overly dependent on the Brethren for everyday choices. I was particularly taken aback in an Ensign article when Elder Packer brought up people who pray about what kind of style they should choose to do their house in: Tudor, Spanish, etc. He said, "Does it occurr to you that the Lord doesn't CARE what style you choose? He just cares that the house is built to safety standards so the inhabitants are safe inside and that it was obtained by honest means." Didn't the woman who wrote, "Secret Ceremonies" say her first husband was so obsessed with micromanging his life that he prayed about whether he should have eggs for breakfast? Arbitrary rules with no seeming context drive me nuts. If you can give me a good reason for it, they I will go along. And there have been times when I really questioned something, went home, prayed about it and felt it was right for me and usually for my family. There have also been times when I was asked to go along with something that had me wondering and the Spirit told me to go with it. Later on, I could usually see why it was a good thing. Maybe the Lord knows how stubborn I am, so I have to be told directly. ;-) I think the real question here is that Obedience for it's own sake has become enshrined in our classes and many tomes sitting on the shelves of church book stores. How about Obedience, not for it's own sake, but for the right reasons? After all, when all is said and done, will it not be the intent of our hearts and the content of characters that we will be judged by God on? Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Religious Fundamentalists as Murderers Date: 21 Aug 2003 10:57:46 -0700 I'll give a hearty second to Annette's recommendations of John Douglas' books. I think the one she was trying to remember the title of is: "The Cases That Haunt Us". "Mindhunter" is another excellent one. Douglas was an adviser on "Silence Of The Lambs" and the model for Jody Foster's superior in the movie. Scott Glenn played her boss and spent time with Douglas to get a feel for him and the work. Douglas has written and talked about how in talking with Glenn he found him against the death penalty, and had certain attitudes about criminal justice in general. Douglas made him sit down and listen to a series of audio tapes a child predator/murderer made when he tortured the little boys he abducted before he killed them. He had Glenn weeping. He wanted him to know what his world was like and what the people he helps the police to catch are like. I'll also confirm that what Annette says about Douglas and choice. Douglas is emphatic about no matter how much a compulsion a criminal may have, he still always has a choice. If they are really insane, how come they plan their crimes away from where they will be seen, use subterfuge and try to cover them up? There are other people that have rough childhoods and who don't choose to hurt others, in fact, many of them try and make life better for others. And while he concedes that many of the criminals he's dealt with do come from bad childhoods, he also points out some come from good backgrounds and still choose to commit crimes. Douglas does not feel that religion tends to make for creating murderers more than anything else in the criminal's life, it just might be the facade they use or hide behind. He is very skeptical of people that "get religion" in prison as they seem more interested in getting out than in paying for their crimes. If they are sincere, fine. He just thinks society shouldn't take a chance by letting them out to test it out and see. One of his favortie phrases about the desire to "rehabilitate" some of these hard-core sadists, rapists and murderers is: "How can you rehabilitate someone who was never "habilitated" in the first place?" His Mormon connection is the accounts of the so-called "mormon mafia" that was at the FBI in the years he was there. He doesn't speak ill of this by the way, he expresses admiration for a number of his mormon colleagues. He mentioned one who had a sign in his office, "He Who Fails At Home, Fails At Life." He tells of an anecdote about one of the LDS law-enforcement officers who came to take a program at the FBI headquarters at Quantico. Seems he set the guy up for a practical joke, and how flustered the guy was, but was a good sport when they let him in on what was really going on. I think he helped to train the Chief of Police in Provo, that's his connection there. He also has a weekend radio show in Los Angeles right now. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] Great and Noble Ones Date: 21 Aug 2003 13:16:36 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:58 AM There > are these moments when we leave the somewhat irrelevant discussions and > participate in the heart-wrenching efforts to unite ourselves and give > comfort when we REALLY live up to our covenants to mourn with those that > mourn or when we (like my friend standing with her children on the rock) > defy the powers of Satan that would divide us and have us blame God for > our personal tragedies and maybe for institutional errors. These > moments show me the core of my faith and remind me why I still believe. Margaret, I'm sure I speak for many when I say thank you for this lovely and moving post. You've expressed something I've often tried to put into words--the core of faith in spite of the hassles of membership--and you've also challenged me to examine my heart and make sure that that core is intact. Especially this week when the childish and uncharitable behavior of a ward member has inflicted a lot of pain in our family. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeffress@xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 21 Aug 2003 12:49:07 -0600 I probably should have used [sic], since I did a lot of cutting and pasting, especially on the organic compound names. (Physics majors never did go in for all that chemistry mumbo jumbo.) Perhaps since that particular refence came from Oxford, the Brits spell Xanthine differently along with all those other crazy variants on "normal" English. :-) Thanks, Ronn!, for the addendum. -- Terry -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Dale W. NELSON, _A Latter-day Saint Perspective on the Lost Date: 21 Aug 2003 13:38:30 -0700 Thanks for the information, I appreciate it. -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] FW: Eric D. Snider update: All Fired Up Date: 21 Aug 2003 13:40:09 -0700 This sounds nuts. A sad development. I hope you land something soon. -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 21 Aug 2003 14:32:59 -0600 [MOD: Without taking this thread further in the direction of allocating blame, I'd like to invite a discussion of how specific ideas change/become transmuted as they pass through various cultural filters: e.g., Conference talk to counsel from the bishop; practice to folk doctrine. What happens when one person's "established doctrine" turns out to be, in someone else's opinion, just a matter that church members may disagree about? How is/can/should this be reflected in our literature?] ----- Original Message ----- > Bill Willson wrote: > > > So it isn't necessarily the errors of the GA's we need to be worrying about, > > it's the misinterpretations and errors of the rank and file that get us into > > trouble. > > But since one nearly always results in the other, we do need to worry. > But which is the real cause of the trouble, the GA's propensity to err on the side of righteousness, or the rank and file's tendency to take the guidelines to the extreme? Does a guideline from the GA's about modesty for instance, make it alright for some self-righteous member on the stake dance committee to stand at the door of a church dance and humiliate a young woman who has her skirt or dress cut a little too short? Or does the word of wisdom give a high priest serving on the city council the authority to use his position to pass a city ordinance prohibiting the grocery stores from selling beer or wine on Sunday? Should we be voting to close public recreation venues just because of the commandment to "honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy"? Where is the principle of agency in this kind of leadership? Where is the opportunity for progression if we try to legislate righteousness? I think this sort of thinking completely undermines the result of the War in Heaven. Joseph Smith gave us a good basic outline to follow when he said, "Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves." This did not absolve the rank and file from using good common sense, and applying the principles and guidelines to affect the spirit of the law, and not lean so hard toward serving the strict letter of the law. I don't think the members of the church should be so infantile, as to require instruction in every facet of the application of the correct principles and guidelines set out by the GA's. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 21 Aug 2003 14:45:58 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > Bill Willson wrote: > > > > From: "Cathy Wilson" > > > > > Very cute. > > __________________________________ > > > > I agree that dialogue is funny, but it can be damaging too. > > This is a good example of the rank and file's misinterpretation of the > > guidance from our GA's in favor of safe choices, and spreading of false > > doctrine based on correct principles taught by our leaders. (see earlier > > post on ...errors among leaders). I'm sure the writer was trying to either > > spread some doctrine, or else deliberately vilify the intolerance of church > > doctrine, either way, it is incorrect and damaging to the church's public > > image. > > Or maybe the writer was just trying to provide a cute moment in the > movie. Since when does cuteness justify damaging the image of anyone, or the image of the church members? I guess we as a group of writers have to use our agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or denigrating the church and its members into shame. Here is to good writing designed to strengthen and uplift. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 21 Aug 2003 14:55:40 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > When Jesus condemns the Pharisees, I think he's speaking as much to us > in modern times as he was to his contemporaries. Are we piling on our > own set of ad hoc rules that we demand each other live, because we > somehow don't think the principles of the gospel are good enough to > teach us to govern ourselves? > > Caffeinated drinks. > [snip] > > Are we sure we're not the Pharisees too? > Thank you D, for a very interesting list of topics to attempt to write essays on. I think in some ways some of the members of our church have drifted too far toward the Pharisees way of thinking and acting. Perhaps we all do at times, as we try to lead and guide our families toward the correct path, as we see it. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] ROWLING, J.K., _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ (Review) Date: 21 Aug 2003 15:45:49 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > > Maybe there's hope for me as a writer after all. > > Veering a little bit from the original post on Harry Potter, I'd like to comment on my reading of _Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets_ by J.K. Rowling that has lifted a bit of the doubt from my own mind of whether or not my writing has any hope of being published. > . . . When suddenly I realized that Lord Voldemort could not be an ancestor of Salazar Slytherin, but rather a descendant. I smiled big. If Rowling can make a word-use blunder like that, maybe there's hope for me. > . . . if I can see that somebody who is as sucessful (and now rich!) as J. K. Rowling and can still make mistakes like this, then maybe I should pick up my pen again (okay, keyboard) and start a new project. > When I read this post I found myself in complete sympathy with Darvell, and my heart went out to him. Writing is a very tough affliction to overcome. Many very good writers give up or get lost in the shuffle before they even have the courage to call themselves writers. We have to keep reminding ourselves that not all writers become authors, but all authors were once writers. This is the reason I set out a few years ago to write a motivational book to help writers in denial to begin to see themselves as writers and therefore potential authors. May I offer some further insight to the process of writing with the following excerpt from my, as of yet unpublished, but copyrighted book - "You Just Might be a Writer"? (c) 2002 Chapter Eight - Rewriting Rewriting is very similar to the plot of the movie Groundhog Day starring Bill Murray. The first time through the writer finds all the mistakes like typos, spelling errors and little personal idiosyncracies in the writing style, then the writer goes back and finds all the adverbs and adjectives which are blatantly unnecessary or misused. Now the first draft is complete, and the real work begins, fleshing out, trimming, honing, fine tuning, and fixing the all important word choices. Groundhog Day is a perfect model for learning how to rewrite. A writer rewrites just like Bill Murray did; he just kept on changing, revising, polishing, cutting here, adding there, rearranging, tightening, expanding the story over and over and over endlessly, until one day, by some stroke of fate, he got it right. You just might be a writer if . . . you mentally rewrite the endings of stories you read or movies you see. when you finally get something published, and you are reading your own personal copy, there it is, right in the middle of page forty-nine, a blaring typo. you begin to realize you can never find all the typos by yourself. you discover a typo in the published work that wasn't in your original manuscript, and you really get ticked-off. you suddenly realize that nothing you ever write will be perfect or even just exactly the way you originally intended it to be. every time you read something you have written, you want to change something. making changes to your manuscript, suggested by the copy editor, is like a root canal, but after it's over you feel so much better. you believe rewriting is a necessary evil just like taxes, unions, and welfare. you fill three wastebaskets full of discarded copy before you can fill a 9 x12 manila envelope with a manuscript fit to be seen by an editor. no matter how many times you have rewritten a piece of work, you still want to read it one more time before submitting it. you can't believe it when you find something you need to change on your last read through. you sometimes find yourself staring at the pages of your manuscript, telling yourself, "I know there's a mistake in there somewhere, and I'm not quitting until I find it." after umpty-ump rewrites you finally accept the fact that it will never be perfect, so you send it off to the editor anyway. _______________________________ Darvel if you think you are a writer you are one. Don't let the uphill struggle to publication discourage you, just keep on writing every day. That is what writers do. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:08:45 -0600 Denzel? Hmm. I for one have never swooned over him. Viggo, on the other hand . . . Annette Lyon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 21 Aug 2003 16:58:50 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > Methinks thou doth protest too much. This is in no > way damaging to the church's images. What it DOES do > is make the Mormon people appear more human, which can > never be a bad thing. > > "Yes, World, it is true. We don't all avoid drinking > Diet Coke. Some of us don't pay a full tithing all > the time. Sometimes we, like you, fail in our family > responsibilities. We are just like you. Normal in > every way." Yes we are all normal and we all have faults and weaknesses, but why not portray Mormans as being intelligent about the struggle with the nature of our humanity and alter the dialogue to make it appear more like we were comfortable with our agency rather than obsessed with appearances even if they do not conform to our own perception of reality? Maybe something like: The protagonist brings in a couple of Dr Peppers and the older agent says, "Don't tell my wife I'm swilling this stuff, she thinks I'll go to hell if I do. When we got married, I converted to Mormonism and some people in the church have extended the church's laws of health to include anything with caffeine in it. We're supposed to keep our bodies clean, but I personally only accept the ban on hot drinks like coffee and tea, along with alcohol and tobacco." and later The protagonist comes into the office and there's the Mormon guy eating McDonalds, including some more Dr Pepper. The guy says, "You're eating and drinking hellfire and damnation to your soul," And the Mormon guy responds, "The only difference between you and I is the difference in the temperature of our caffeine. Just don't tell my wife. Personally I'm more worried about avoiding the secretaries low cut neckline than what's in my soft drink." Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] ROWLING, J.K., _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ (Review) Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:04:49 -0600 Other such examples. Harlan Ellison describing a a centaur in a story entitled "Minotaur." Larry Niven in Ring World describing the earth as orbiting in the exact opposite direction it actually does. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:04:49 -0600 Is he that bad and actor or is George a bad director. I just finished watching the Professional with a young Natalie Portman. She was marvelous in that. In SW, she sucked big time. Some actors need great directors to be good (Gregory Peck was among them). Other actors (like Gene Hackman) nail their performances every time no matter who the director is. Thom >-----Original Message----- >I said I would take responses seriously >(except the obviously joking), but in one case I respectfully >have to disagree: Hayden Christensen can't act. > >Jongiorgi Enos -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:04:49 -0600 >-----Original Message----- >OTOH, when I suggested that we make the investigator in one of=20 >our videos=20 >black, that suggestion got bounced upstairs from person to=20 >person (though I=20 >don't know precisely who got involved) before the word came=20 >back down, "No,=20 >you can't do that, because the Church isn't baptizing many=20 >blacks.=B9 You=20 >can make him Hispanic, though." So he got a stereotype=20 >Hispanic name like=20 >Hernandez or Melendez or something like that in the script. =20 >Of course,=20 >when it came time to shoot the finished product, the actor=20 >they got to play=20 >the part was drawn from the available pool of talent: typical=20 >Happy Valley=20 >white bread. We had similar problems when we wanted to show one of the actresses as pregnant (she was in real life so we went with it). It was a problem but we managed through. Ultimately, we succeeded in doing a training video for Stake Missionaries still used to this day. One of the stake missionaries is a black man (actor Isaac Thomas). We felt it was quite a coup back in those days. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:20:24 -0500 Okay, I'm finally catching up. I enjoy both Viggo Mortensen and Hugh Jackman's performances and they're both admittedly nice to look at. Given the choice I'd vote for Hugh to pull it off better. Viggo might be too old. And no one has suggested the one name that absolutely every single woman I know swoons over (including myself, and I honestly do not pay much attention to these things): Orlando Bloom. (Legolas the Elf and the Will Turner in Pirates of the Carribean) He's proven he can change hair and eyes successfully. If swooning is what is wanted... :-) he's your actor. Even sisters who normally do not talk about such things have been overheard at church saying things like "Legolas is HOT." It's pretty funny. It's his eyes. Contacts or not. And some kind of stage presence that is more commanding than I've noticed in a long, long time. I know nothing of his personal life or how he's handling his rocketing stardom. But that -look- in his eyes--he could do it. On the flip side, although I'm a Kilmer fan, I'd pick him last in this lineup. And to flip back, he might be the only one of the group spiritually nutty or open enough to Joseph's life story that could be sincere enough to portray it. I saw him on The Actor's Studio a while back, where Lipton asks a series of questions at the end, the last of which is, "If Heaven exists, what do you want to hear God say when you arrive?" Usually the actors come up with a short quip. Kilmer, however, went into a long discussion: "Now-- I've seen her, and this is what she said..." OTOH maybe you *don't* want him playing Joseph.... :-) Best of luck. Linda -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Heavenly Mothers (was: Episcopalean Revelation) Date: 21 Aug 2003 17:36:20 -0500 >which states that her reason tells her that we have a mother in Heaven. I >was surprised both by her conclusion and by her considering it >reasonable--I'd never heard anything about a heavenly mother in the >Southern Baptist Church! It was, shall we say, a paradigm shift for me. Mm. No. Actually, "The rest of the story" is that Eliza R. Snow's own mother had recently passed away when she wrote the song. It's far more likely she meant eternal families, and that her mother and father would be with her in Heaven. There has never been a denial of the concept of a Mother in Heaven, although it's common knowledge that this is the usual interpretation of "O My Father." But to my recollection it's never been preached from the pulpit either, as doctrine. Linda Adams -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 21 Aug 2003 14:37:42 -0500 At 12:49 PM 8/21/03 -0600, jeffress@xmission.com wrote: >I probably should have used [sic], since I did a lot of cutting and= pasting, >especially on the organic compound names. (Physics majors never did go in >for all that chemistry mumbo jumbo.) Um . . . I majored in physics. ;-) (Actually, a double major in math=20 and physics.) To be fair, though, I did once upon a time consider chemistry as a=20 profession before deciding on astronomy, so perhaps I do know a bit more=20 about chemistry than the "average" physicist (whatever that might mean),=20 and it comes in handy when the topic is the chemistry which goes on in the= =20 atmospheres or on the surfaces of other planets, or the needs of possible=20 extraterrestrial life forms . . . >Perhaps since that particular refence >came from Oxford, the Brits spell Xanthine differently along with all those >other crazy variants on "normal" English. :-) Possibly, though I don't think I've ever seen "zanthine" as an alternative= =20 spelling (though that is indeed the way it is pronounced). The spelling,=20 etc., of most chemical names is standardized by the IUPAC ("International=20 Union on Pure and Applied Chemistry", IIRC), though, so there is really=20 minimal variation from country to country. (There are both books and web=20 sites where you can find the IUPAC rules for naming organic compounds, and= =20 said rules are very extensive.) >Thanks, Ronn!, for the addendum. You're welcome, though as I said, I was just being nit-picky. -- Ronn! :) Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions contained=20 herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the=20 official position of the University of Montevallo. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred C Pinnegar Subject: Re: [AML] FW: Eric D. Snider update: All Fired Up Date: 21 Aug 2003 19:09:16 -0600 I am sorry to see Eric leave, but it is also a good time to get out of the Herald. There was a time when I had a fairly high opinion of it, but I think that it is on a down-hill, left leaning, rolling tumbling skid, and I don't know how much longer I will be with them myself (subscription wise, not employment). I have loved and appreciated Eric's work for a long time, except, of course, when he has made fun of things near and dear to me. I wish him all the best, and, as we sometimes say of those how have died, he is going to a better place. Fred Pinnegar -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Elizabeth Walters Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 21 Aug 2003 20:31:33 -0600 I've watched Attack of the Clones more times than I care to admit and I guess we'll agree to disagree on Hayden's performance. He's definitely no Oscar caliber actor yet, but based on the fact that Star Wars movies have never been known for acting quality I thought he handled himself o.k. Some scenes more than others of course. I think he's done well in other movies like "Life as a House" and "The Virgin Suicides." I'd take him over half of the rising young actors out there right now. Just my opinion of course [Elizabeth Walters] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard B. Johnson" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 21 Aug 2003 23:54:33 -0700 [MOD: Thanks to Richard and others who have responded. I think we've about beaten this aspect of this thread to death...] Actually according to the latest information sent to my temple president, one can attend the temple, complete ordinances (even perform Baptisms) with facial hair but one cannot be an ordinance worker with facial hair.(Ordained veil workers who are not regular (scheduled) ordinance workers are still allowed to work the veil, but, I understand, not in all temples Richard B. Johnson; Husband, Father, Grandfather, Actor, Director, Puppeteer, Teacher, Playwright, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is most important and most valuable. Http://PuppenRich.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Harlow S Clark Subject: [AML] Re: Dialogue Call for Papers on War and Peace Date: 21 Aug 2003 22:11:48 -0700 Went up to SLC last Wednesday to hear Martin Luther King III speak. I hope to write some about that. Talked with Karen Moloney, Levi's co-editor. She said she had hoped to receive some more hawkish papers for the War and Peace issue, because you can't present both sides of an issue if you only have papers from one side. Three names came to mind immediately from list discussions, Jacob Proffitt, Jim Wilson and Scott Parkin. Jacob for his comment that people who are against war are never willing to say what they think would constitute a just war, Jim for his passion in general, and Scott for his ability to see the ambiguities and nuances on both sides of an issue and write thoughtfully about them. And I think other list members could write well on both war and peace. I told Karen I'd mention her desire on AML-List. Unfortunately, papers are due Sept 1. A lot has happened in the last week and I haven't had much time to e-mail, so I apologize for the short notice. Harlow S. Clark -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Lee Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 22 Aug 2003 08:03:15 -0700 (PDT) Thank you for all of your replies. I think I need to clarify my question. My question is, where is this idea of non-erroring General Authorities coming from among you on this list? It's clear that everyone who has posted a reply is aware that the concept is not doctrinally correct and it's not taught as doctrine by those with authority to do so. What I want to know is where are the members of this list hearing the opposite? My post was triggered by Eric Samuelsen's comment, "Isn't it about time that we Mormons acknowledge that General Authorities, even Apostles, can and do make mistakes?" and D. Michael Martindale's reply, "It's not only about time, but decades overdue." In my circle of influence, with the exception of lists like this, I never hear these kinds of comments. What I've picked up on from these posts is a frustration with those who promote the non-erroring perspective. However, I would like to assume that there really aren't any members of the Church who truly believe in perfect General Authorities. But if that's not the case, then who are these people and why do they have the power to affect so many of you if they are so clearly out of step? What I've seen in the replies to my post (and in other posts) are a few mentions of the occasional person in a Gospel Doctrine class (usually an older person) who speaks dogmatically about subjects they probably haven't studied since the early 1970's. Some have mentioned administrative problems when working as an employee or contractor for the Church that have caused disillusionment on some level (this could be a whole separate topic). Wilford Woodruffs comments about not leading the Church astray (D&C OD 1) have been brought up but just as quickly put into perspective, which voids them out as an issue. Others have mentioned their personal dissatisfaction with Church policies and actions, but none of these situations have answered why statements like the one made by Eric Samuelsen are received on this list with nods of approval. That's the mystery to me. Matthew R. Lee -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (Des News) Snider Firing Date: 22 Aug 2003 10:20:25 -0600 Daily Herald fires writer over story on 'Rumors' 'Mysterious' source was the reporter himself By Leigh Dethman Deseret Morning News PROVO - A Daily Herald columnist was fired Tuesday for allegedly violating the paper's ethics policy. Eric D. Snider said he was fired for referring to a "mysterious" source in an Aug. 8 news story. Snider, however, was quoting himself. "There was a lapse in judgment made where I ought to have said up front there might be a conflict of interest - someone else should write the story," said Snider. Snider's story was about the Pleasant Grove Theater's plans to remove obscenities from the Neil Simon play "Rumors." Snider said he was curious about the legality of changing a copyrighted script, so he anonymously called Samuel French Inc., a company that handles the copyright. The play was scheduled to open for a two-week run August 14 - but the curtains never opened. Simon revoked the theater's rights to perform the play unless the script remained intact. Snider said the letter Samuel French Inc. sent to the Grove Theater indicates the office was acting on information brought to their attention by Simon's attorney. "I was under the impression it was not because of me they were acting," Snider said. In Snider's story about the play, he wrote, "How Samuel French learned of the alterations is a mystery worthy of Agatha Christie more than Neil Simon." A clarification in Thursday's Daily Herald said it is the policy of the Herald to make every effort to fully identify its sources and to make clear all relevant circumstances in news stories. Daily Herald Publisher Al Manzi said would not confirm or deny Snider's firing, saying the newspaper does not comment on personnel issues. "We made the correction to Eric's story today," Manzi said. "That's all we feel comfortable commenting on out of respect for Eric and because of our internal policies." Snider was not the only tipster from the Herald. Features writer Brent Merritt, who was slated to be the lead in the Grove's production of "Rumors," also called Samuel French Inc., Snider said. Merritt was only reprimanded for his actions and kept his job at the newspaper, Snider said. "We certainly will not cast him again," said Gayliene Omary, one of the owners and a producer at the Grove Theater. "I don't know his intentions. If he's an enemy, we don't want to have people here that want to destroy our theater. We want people that work with us and help us along." Omary said her theater lost a lot of money when "Rumors" did not go on. "I just wonder why he felt so compelled to do that and not to come to us first," Omary said. "It almost seems like he contrived a story; made up a story to excite things." Snider was hired at the Daily Herald after graduating from Brigham Young University. His popular column "Snide Remarks" brought him fans and enemies in Utah Valley. He started Garren's, an improvisational comedy group. Snider left the group in 1997 but recently returned to the local comedy-performance scene with Comedy Sportz. Snider said moving to a new place intrigues him, but leaving his local celebrity status might be hard to swallow. "I never planned on staying in Utah," Snider said. "I never planned on staying at the Herald forever. I had to leave the Herald eventually, and maybe this is the kick . . . I needed to go do something else." -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:17:57 -0500 Linda wrote: >"The rest of the story" is that Eliza R. Snow's own >mother had recently passed away when she wrote the song. It's far more >likely she meant eternal families, and that her mother and father would be >with her in Heaven. This is an interesting interpretation, but I find it hard to understand, given the wording of the song as we currently have it. I don't know the historical context of the writing, which may be as you have suggested. But looking at the song with an interpretive eye, it's hard for me to see it as referring to anything other than heavenly parents. Consider the first and second verses. These, it seems to me, are clearly about God: "holy habitation," the reference to a spirit residing there, and the "thou" as the one who sent Eliza to earth and put a veil over her memory of pre-Earth life. This continues in the first part of the third verse, with its reference to being taught to refer to "thee" as a Father, although she "knew not why" until "the key of knowledge was restored"--an apparent reference to the Restoration, through Joseph Smith, as explaining that God is literally the father of our spirits. I can't see how these lines could possibly refer to her earthly father. Given this consistent focus for the first two and a half verses, it seems a stretch to argue that the second half of the third verse, with its famous question, "In the heavens are parents single?" is suddenly talking, not about God, but about earthly parents in the hereafter. Thematically, this second half of the verse, with its reference to "truth is reason," seems to extend the idea from the first half, which is that new knowledge through the Restoration suddenly makes the title of "Father" for God much clearer. It's hard for me to read this as anything but an additional, logical conclusion that Eliza R. Snow is drawing, that a Mother in Heaven must exist, based on the literal reality of God as our Father as revealed through the Restoration. This conclusion seems confirmed by the fourth verse. Granted, the first two lines, "When I leave this frail existence, when I lay this mortal by, Father, Mother, may I meet you in your royal courts on high?" could conceivably refer to meeting earthly parents again, though use of the term "royal" and of Eliza requesting *permission* to meet them again seems to argue against this. The last two lines, however, seem to make it clear that it is deity to whom Eliza is speaking: "Then at length, when I've completed all you sent me forth to do" appears, again, to refer to the notion of being sent to earth, while "With your mutual approbation let me come and dwell with you" is appealing to Father and Mother both (as indicated by "mutual") for approval to come and "dwell with you." Unless we're arguing that Eliza thought that earthly parents would judge us on our earthly performance (an interesting but peculiar notion), it seems to me that this has to be a reference to divine judgment (which apparently Eliza sees as jointly shared among both heavenly parents). So she is speaking to a set of two parents who first sent her to earth, then will be judging her, with the goal being for her to live with them again. Who could this be but God and his consort? Linda: What is your source for this interpretation? Jonathan Langford Speaking as myself, not AML-List moderator jlangfor@pressenter.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:58:36 -0600 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list [MOD: Thanks, Chris, for forwarding this. Sigh... Brings back memories!] Utahns devour and write a galaxy of fantasy fiction=20 By Christy Karras=20 The Salt Lake Tribune=20 It may be the culture. It may be religion or the landscape. Maybe it's something in the water. Whatever the reason, Utah has some of the nation's most prolific producers and ravenous readers of science fiction and fantasy, known in the book world as "speculative fiction."=20 Organizers of the Utah Book Awards, given annually for outstanding recent work about Utah or by Utah authors, discovered this two years ago, when they put out the word that writers in the genre were welcome to enter the fiction division.=20 "We just got overwhelmed with genre entries," said Julie Bartel, teens' librarian at the Salt Lake City Public Library and a member of the Utah Center for the Book committee that chooses award winners. The contest garnered twice as many speculative entries as mainstream ones.=20 Science-fiction author M. Shayne Bell became a finalist that year, even though judges had little experience with genre fiction. Science-fiction and fantasy authors "are really asking important questions, but they look more like entertainment," said Chip Ward, who heads the Utah Center for the Book. "If you're not used to that genre, it's hard to know if it's really serious or not."=20 Last year, for the first time, the Utah Center for the Book created a category for speculative fiction, with an award partly funded by CONduit, Utah's largest science-fiction convention.=20 The number of entries for the award highlights the number of science-fiction and fantasy writers in Utah. "Getting into the convention side of things, you realize how many writers there are who live here or have ties to here, and how many people here read science fiction and fantasy," said Bartel, a CONduit board member. "You start to wonder why."=20 =20 A religious influence: Many science-fiction and fantasy authors in Utah are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- which may seem paradoxical, since Mormons are known for being pragmatic and conservative.=20 The Mormon culture is "a little repressive, but it's also a culture that believes in things you can't see, things you take on faith. Whatever side of the religion question you come down on, it works really well," said Bartel, who is not LDS. "Where so many people spend so much time thinking about the big questions, it's got to have some influence."=20 Links between the church and science fiction can be traced largely to one man and one LDS institution. Marion "Doc" Smith, a professor in the English department at Brigham Young University, taught a science-fiction writing class for years before his death last year. That class produced many published writers, including Bell and Dave Wolverton; a publication, Leading Edge, printed by the English department; a science-fiction and fantasy club; and an annual symposium called "Life, the Universe and Everything."=20 After Smith's retirement, English professor Sally Taylor and linguistics professor Linda Adams began advising the club and symposium, which draws about 500 people every spring.=20 "Philosophically, one reason that Mormons do so well in science fiction is that, I think, science fiction is one of the genres people are writing in that has the highest ethical standard. . . . There are codes and rules and honor that I think fits well with a believing people," Adams said. Mormons also believe in a "premortal existence" and an afterlife, and that this is not the only world God will ever create. "A lot of things that seem fanciful to other people don't seem so out of the ordinary to the LDS," Adams said. "As a Mormon, it's not hard to believe in something you can't see and hear and touch right now."=20 Television and film also show evidence of Mormons' interest in science fiction, Adams said, noting that 1970s TV series "Battlestar Galactica" had many LDS writers. She has even found an occasional Mormon influence in episodes of "Star Trek."=20 "The fact is, as a Mormon you believe that there is life on other planets. We're kind of a science-fiction religion," said Wolverton, who studied poetry and literature as well as Smith's science-fiction classes at BYU.=20 About 20 years ago, Wolverton sent a story to the Writers of the Future contest, a worldwide competition originally set up by science-fiction writer and Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, and won the grand prize. Based on that, he got a three-book contract with a major publisher -- a success story almost unheard-of in the literary world.=20 "It was a little overwhelming at first," he said in a telephone interview from his home in St. George. His first book landed at No. 3 on The New York Times best-seller list. "All of a sudden, I had this reputation I had to live up to."=20 Wolverton is one of a sizable group of Utah residents who have won or placed in the contest. "It's been a joke that so many Utah writers have won Writers of the Future," said Susan Kroupa, who selects fiction for the Orem public library and has written many speculative-fiction stories.=20 Like other writers, Kroupa believes speculative fiction is a good place to explore ethical issues. She counts Orson Scott Card, who is LDS, as one of her influences. "I realized the issues I wanted to talk about -- moral, societal and cultural things that were interesting to me -- I saw how well he handled in his science fiction and fantasy. It seemed a more acceptable place to examine that than in mainstream writing."=20 Card, who lived in Utah before moving to North Carolina a few years ago, says he's not surprised to find Mormons interested in the genre. "We have no qualms about the idea of life on other planets, faster-than-light travel, ancient 'lost' civilizations, supernatural events with natural explanations," he told The Salt Lake Tribune in an e-mail message. "We view all problems as solvable, and regard human nature as being fundamentally good and humans as capable of far more, intellectually and morally, than we have yet seen in history. These are attributes of mainstream science fiction, so Mormons are comfortable in that milieu.=20 "However, the reason is really deeper than this. . . . Science fiction allows writers to deal with all the most powerful, troubling and/or difficult religious, moral and cosmological issues. Where else can you write apocalyptic, eschatological, epistemological and redemptive fiction with any kind of clarity?"=20 The road for LDS writers has not always been easy. Tracy Hickman, a devout Mormon, began his career writing role-playing games such as Dungeons and Dragons -- considered dangerous by some church members. "I was called out of church one day by a member of the stake presidency who took me out and sat down with me and asked me about my work, asked if there was anything about my work that was contrary to my beliefs," said Hickman, author of more than 50 titles, most of them in the Dragonlance series. He believes problems lie not in the genre but in a few individuals who misuse it.=20 "Everything I ever wrote, I always made sure that it was a story of ethics and a story that taught morality."=20 =20 A community of believers: Not all of Utah's speculative-fiction writers are LDS, which leads many to believe other factors are also at work. Ken Rand, who teaches writing and has published numerous stories including the collection Tales of the Lucky Nickel Saloon, once counted and came up with at least 50 Utah writers in the genre. "Yes, many Utah science-fiction writers are Mormon. . . . But there are and have been many Utah science-fiction writers who are not Mormon. And how do you account for the many atheists in the genre, including Heinlein and Asimov? The genre is a huge umbrella."=20 Rand (who is not LDS) says it may be partly the landscape itself, which inspires him. "I write a lot about the West, mostly Wyoming, but a lot of my stories are set in, or somehow related to Utah, particularly the west desert. I loved that landscape, where you could be in a spot and look around and know there is nobody within a hundred square miles of where you are."=20 Rand and others also say the helpful community of writers in Utah keeps the genre strong. "The feeling of community among science-fiction writers comes from the fact that we're all fans -- from the newest writer to the biggest publisher -- we all love reading this stuff," he said. "And we help each other. Paying forward is not just a clich=E9, it's something we do regularly as a habit, as a commitment to the betterment of the genre. The way it works: If I teach somebody who becomes a Great Writer, as that writer goes up, so does the entire literary field, and so do I with it."=20 For every Utah writer, there are many more readers. L.E. Modesitt, a prolific author whose 2002 science-fiction book Archform: Beauty won the first speculative-fiction Utah Book Award, attributes the genre's popularity among readers partly to the state's young population. Science fiction and fantasy are popular with teenagers, a group that makes up an oversize chunk of Utah's people. It is also a group notoriously reluctant to read. According to librarian Bartel, if teens read at all, it's likely they're reading speculative fiction.=20 "A lot of teens that I've talked to just lately here have mentioned that they're reading about important things" in science fiction, Bartel said, from cataclysmic battles to important social questions. "They feel like they don't have that sort of a big thing in their lives." In real life, "You can't go out and discover another country. . . . Getting a job and going out and becoming an adult doesn't seem that big or important.=20 "There's a disillusionment that kids go through when they realize they're not going to become king of the world, they'll become an accountant or something. A lot of mainstream fiction doesn't address big questions like that."=20 Ruth Hanson is chairwoman of the Reading for the Future program, which asks fans and authors to donate science-fiction and fantasy books to schools and libraries to encourage reading. The program also sponsors workshops and activities to teach educators how to incorporate speculative fiction into curricula. "It's really good for certain people, especially teenage males who are bored," Hanson said. "It's a way to ignite the spark of imagination and invite them to explore things that in the real world it might be emotionally hard to deal with."=20 Hanson believes the genre is popular throughout the state because people here tend to be technologically literate, and because Utah has a high rate of literacy in general.=20 Another draw for speculative fiction: Compared with those in other genres, speculative-fiction writers tend to eschew gratuitous sex, violent images or foul language, making the books more appealing to Utah audiences.= =20 "There are only a handful of authors who really do that in the field. . . . As far as I know, none of them live in Utah," said Modesitt, who is not LDS. "I don't do graphic violence. I don't dwell on chopped-up intestines and that sort of stuff."=20 And where sex is concerned: "If you know about sex, I can't write it as well as you know it, and if you don't know about sex, I'm the last person you should find out about it from."=20 For most readers, the genre is, most important, an effective and entertaining form of escapism. After a Modesitt book signing last week, Dave Willoughby said he reads speculative fiction to explore "other lands, other worlds, to see what would happen there. I can see this world just by opening my eyes."=20 Kristina McIntyre, who leads a monthly science-fiction/fantasy book group at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Sugar House, agrees with many authors when she says regardless of fans' age or religion, they read it mostly because it's good stuff. "A lot of us grow up with stories about heroes and magic, and it kind of speaks to the mythology that's inside everybody," she said.=20 =20 Flights of fantasy=20 =20 L.E. Modesitt and Ken Rand will speak about writing speculative fiction at the Great Salt Lake Book Festival, Sept. 13 at noon at Salt Lake City Library's Main Branch, 210 E. 400 South.=20 =20 The event is free and open to the public. For information, go to www.utahhumanities.org.=20 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] Retraction Regarding Horizon Date: 25 Aug 2003 17:05:06 -0500 Some months ago, I posted a somewhat inflammatory letter regarding my experiences with Horizon Publishers and its President, Duane Crowther. Since then, Horizon Publishers has stated that due to a previously unmentioned foreclosure sale, they believe that they did own rights to my book and were acting legally and honestly when they offered my book for sale without first requesting my permission to do so. I have asked Horizon for further documentation of these claims, then consulted yet again with my attorney, before posting this needed and sincere apology. I was unaware of this foreclosure sale, which Horizon claims involved my contract, at the time I wrote the previous post. Neither Horizon or Cornerstone ever mentioned this to me at any time, either verbally or in writing, and my questions regarding the matter are not yet fully answered. However, I should never have said the things I did regarding my personal feelings, or made any public allegations regarding the honesty of the company or Mr. Crowther himself. I am truly sorry for any damage my words may have done to Horizon Publishers or Mr. Crowther's character, and wish to retract my allegations at this time completely. I am very sorry for this error in judgment. I also respectfully request the Moderators to please permanently remove the offending words from the AML-List Archive. Thank you very much. Sincerely, Linda Adams -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Date: 25 Aug 2003 19:12:31 -0600 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list [MOD: This is a resend, in hopes it will come through with the subject line= =20 this time.] Utahns devour and write a galaxy of fantasy fiction=20 By Christy Karras=20 The Salt Lake Tribune=20 It may be the culture. It may be religion or the landscape. Maybe it's something in the water. Whatever the reason, Utah has some of the nation's most prolific producers and ravenous readers of science fiction and fantasy, known in the book world as "speculative fiction."=20 Organizers of the Utah Book Awards, given annually for outstanding recent work about Utah or by Utah authors, discovered this two years ago, when they put out the word that writers in the genre were welcome to enter the fiction division.=20 "We just got overwhelmed with genre entries," said Julie Bartel, teens' librarian at the Salt Lake City Public Library and a member of the Utah Center for the Book committee that chooses award winners. The contest garnered twice as many speculative entries as mainstream ones.=20 Science-fiction author M. Shayne Bell became a finalist that year, even though judges had little experience with genre fiction. Science-fiction and fantasy authors "are really asking important questions, but they look more like entertainment," said Chip Ward, who heads the Utah Center for the Book. "If you're not used to that genre, it's hard to know if it's really serious or not."=20 Last year, for the first time, the Utah Center for the Book created a category for speculative fiction, with an award partly funded by CONduit, Utah's largest science-fiction convention.=20 The number of entries for the award highlights the number of science-fiction and fantasy writers in Utah. "Getting into the convention side of things, you realize how many writers there are who live here or have ties to here, and how many people here read science fiction and fantasy," said Bartel, a CONduit board member. "You start to wonder why."=20 =20 A religious influence: Many science-fiction and fantasy authors in Utah are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints -- which may seem paradoxical, since Mormons are known for being pragmatic and conservative.=20 The Mormon culture is "a little repressive, but it's also a culture that believes in things you can't see, things you take on faith. Whatever side of the religion question you come down on, it works really well," said Bartel, who is not LDS. "Where so many people spend so much time thinking about the big questions, it's got to have some influence."=20 Links between the church and science fiction can be traced largely to one man and one LDS institution. Marion "Doc" Smith, a professor in the English department at Brigham Young University, taught a science-fiction writing class for years before his death last year. That class produced many published writers, including Bell and Dave Wolverton; a publication, Leading Edge, printed by the English department; a science-fiction and fantasy club; and an annual symposium called "Life, the Universe and Everything."=20 After Smith's retirement, English professor Sally Taylor and linguistics professor Linda Adams began advising the club and symposium, which draws about 500 people every spring.=20 "Philosophically, one reason that Mormons do so well in science fiction is that, I think, science fiction is one of the genres people are writing in that has the highest ethical standard. . . . There are codes and rules and honor that I think fits well with a believing people," Adams said. Mormons also believe in a "premortal existence" and an afterlife, and that this is not the only world God will ever create. "A lot of things that seem fanciful to other people don't seem so out of the ordinary to the LDS," Adams said. "As a Mormon, it's not hard to believe in something you can't see and hear and touch right now."=20 Television and film also show evidence of Mormons' interest in science fiction, Adams said, noting that 1970s TV series "Battlestar Galactica" had many LDS writers. She has even found an occasional Mormon influence in episodes of "Star Trek."=20 "The fact is, as a Mormon you believe that there is life on other planets. We're kind of a science-fiction religion," said Wolverton, who studied poetry and literature as well as Smith's science-fiction classes at BYU.=20 About 20 years ago, Wolverton sent a story to the Writers of the Future contest, a worldwide competition originally set up by science-fiction writer and Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, and won the grand prize. Based on that, he got a three-book contract with a major publisher -- a success story almost unheard-of in the literary world.=20 "It was a little overwhelming at first," he said in a telephone interview from his home in St. George. His first book landed at No. 3 on The New York Times best-seller list. "All of a sudden, I had this reputation I had to live up to."=20 Wolverton is one of a sizable group of Utah residents who have won or placed in the contest. "It's been a joke that so many Utah writers have won Writers of the Future," said Susan Kroupa, who selects fiction for the Orem public library and has written many speculative-fiction stories.=20 Like other writers, Kroupa believes speculative fiction is a good place to explore ethical issues. She counts Orson Scott Card, who is LDS, as one of her influences. "I realized the issues I wanted to talk about -- moral, societal and cultural things that were interesting to me -- I saw how well he handled in his science fiction and fantasy. It seemed a more acceptable place to examine that than in mainstream writing."=20 Card, who lived in Utah before moving to North Carolina a few years ago, says he's not surprised to find Mormons interested in the genre. "We have no qualms about the idea of life on other planets, faster-than-light travel, ancient 'lost' civilizations, supernatural events with natural explanations," he told The Salt Lake Tribune in an e-mail message. "We view all problems as solvable, and regard human nature as being fundamentally good and humans as capable of far more, intellectually and morally, than we have yet seen in history. These are attributes of mainstream science fiction, so Mormons are comfortable in that milieu.=20 "However, the reason is really deeper than this. . . . Science fiction allows writers to deal with all the most powerful, troubling and/or difficult religious, moral and cosmological issues. Where else can you write apocalyptic, eschatological, epistemological and redemptive fiction with any kind of clarity?"=20 The road for LDS writers has not always been easy. Tracy Hickman, a devout Mormon, began his career writing role-playing games such as Dungeons and Dragons -- considered dangerous by some church members. "I was called out of church one day by a member of the stake presidency who took me out and sat down with me and asked me about my work, asked if there was anything about my work that was contrary to my beliefs," said Hickman, author of more than 50 titles, most of them in the Dragonlance series. He believes problems lie not in the genre but in a few individuals who misuse it.=20 "Everything I ever wrote, I always made sure that it was a story of ethics and a story that taught morality."=20 =20 A community of believers: Not all of Utah's speculative-fiction writers are LDS, which leads many to believe other factors are also at work. Ken Rand, who teaches writing and has published numerous stories including the collection Tales of the Lucky Nickel Saloon, once counted and came up with at least 50 Utah writers in the genre. "Yes, many Utah science-fiction writers are Mormon. . . . But there are and have been many Utah science-fiction writers who are not Mormon. And how do you account for the many atheists in the genre, including Heinlein and Asimov? The genre is a huge umbrella."=20 Rand (who is not LDS) says it may be partly the landscape itself, which inspires him. "I write a lot about the West, mostly Wyoming, but a lot of my stories are set in, or somehow related to Utah, particularly the west desert. I loved that landscape, where you could be in a spot and look around and know there is nobody within a hundred square miles of where you are."=20 Rand and others also say the helpful community of writers in Utah keeps the genre strong. "The feeling of community among science-fiction writers comes from the fact that we're all fans -- from the newest writer to the biggest publisher -- we all love reading this stuff," he said. "And we help each other. Paying forward is not just a clich=E9, it's something we do regularly as a habit, as a commitment to the betterment of the genre. The way it works: If I teach somebody who becomes a Great Writer, as that writer goes up, so does the entire literary field, and so do I with it."=20 For every Utah writer, there are many more readers. L.E. Modesitt, a prolific author whose 2002 science-fiction book Archform: Beauty won the first speculative-fiction Utah Book Award, attributes the genre's popularity among readers partly to the state's young population. Science fiction and fantasy are popular with teenagers, a group that makes up an oversize chunk of Utah's people. It is also a group notoriously reluctant to read. According to librarian Bartel, if teens read at all, it's likely they're reading speculative fiction.=20 "A lot of teens that I've talked to just lately here have mentioned that they're reading about important things" in science fiction, Bartel said, from cataclysmic battles to important social questions. "They feel like they don't have that sort of a big thing in their lives." In real life, "You can't go out and discover another country. . . . Getting a job and going out and becoming an adult doesn't seem that big or important.=20 "There's a disillusionment that kids go through when they realize they're not going to become king of the world, they'll become an accountant or something. A lot of mainstream fiction doesn't address big questions like that."=20 Ruth Hanson is chairwoman of the Reading for the Future program, which asks fans and authors to donate science-fiction and fantasy books to schools and libraries to encourage reading. The program also sponsors workshops and activities to teach educators how to incorporate speculative fiction into curricula. "It's really good for certain people, especially teenage males who are bored," Hanson said. "It's a way to ignite the spark of imagination and invite them to explore things that in the real world it might be emotionally hard to deal with."=20 Hanson believes the genre is popular throughout the state because people here tend to be technologically literate, and because Utah has a high rate of literacy in general.=20 Another draw for speculative fiction: Compared with those in other genres, speculative-fiction writers tend to eschew gratuitous sex, violent images or foul language, making the books more appealing to Utah audiences.= =20 "There are only a handful of authors who really do that in the field. . . . As far as I know, none of them live in Utah," said Modesitt, who is not LDS. "I don't do graphic violence. I don't dwell on chopped-up intestines and that sort of stuff."=20 And where sex is concerned: "If you know about sex, I can't write it as well as you know it, and if you don't know about sex, I'm the last person you should find out about it from."=20 For most readers, the genre is, most important, an effective and entertaining form of escapism. After a Modesitt book signing last week, Dave Willoughby said he reads speculative fiction to explore "other lands, other worlds, to see what would happen there. I can see this world just by opening my eyes."=20 Kristina McIntyre, who leads a monthly science-fiction/fantasy book group at the Barnes & Noble bookstore in Sugar House, agrees with many authors when she says regardless of fans' age or religion, they read it mostly because it's good stuff. "A lot of us grow up with stories about heroes and magic, and it kind of speaks to the mythology that's inside everybody," she said.=20 =20 Flights of fantasy=20 =20 L.E. Modesitt and Ken Rand will speak about writing speculative fiction at the Great Salt Lake Book Festival, Sept. 13 at noon at Salt Lake City Library's Main Branch, 210 E. 400 South.=20 =20 The event is free and open to the public. For information, go to www.utahhumanities.org.=20 =09 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:59:56 -0400 Well I can tell you the jist of a personal experience (without naming other names). I was speaking with a member who I know quite well, who is well read, scripturaly fluent--in other words, not someone who has never studied, thought, taught etc. I mentioned something I disagreed with that an apostle had said, and he was appalled. The discussion went further, and I stated that I didn't believe that everytime the OT in specific stated that something was commanded by God that it really was. He was ready to have me committed. This member, within this discussion, used several recently mentioned quoted,--will never lead you astray, speaks the word of God....... and, I think, D&C 1:37-38 to tell me how wrong I was for questioning, or at least disagreeing with, the written or spoken word. As far as he is concerned I am fast on my way to apostacy. I was in a similar discussion in a RS pres. meeting. I don't remember what policy triggered the discussion, though I believe it was a policy and not a doctrine, but the other pres. members were quite frustrated with me because I wouldn't just buy the "because the prophet said it" line. Wait, I do remember now. It had to do with visiting, or rather being prohibited to visit, a mostly inactive member of the ward that had just been arrested on child molestation charges. Not convicted mind you. Arrested. Tracie -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:02:12 -0500 --- Original Message --- >Here is to good writing designed to strengthen and uplift. IMO, writing designed to do this will ultimately do neither. The ONLY goal a writer of fiction (including Mormon fiction) should have is to tell a story about real people. If any other purpose conciously enters in, that original purpose will be damaged. What will happen to the LDS writer who writes first to tell the truth? Their writing will strengthen and uplift. Uplifting is a by-product of good writing, not a goal in and of itself. Thom -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cwilson@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:24:37 GMT Interesting that this bit of dialog could be construed to "villify" the church by misconceptions. I saw it as nicely tied into our discussion on caffeinated drinks and the care of the body. The guy in the movie came across as a real person who knows he's falling short and feels a proper amount of guilt about it. That's what I liked about the exchange; instead of a holier-than-thou guy, this was someone who failed to live up to expectations though he still seemed to believe. Cathy Wilson This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:45:53 -0700 To answer you question Matthew, I have heard the postulation that anything a General Authority or Leader of the Church says over the pulpit or in the Ensign is basically infallible or should be considered doctrine. I have heard it since I joined the Church in my teens. I have heard this said in SS and RS classes by teachers more times than I can count and many in the class ascenting to the premise, despite also having had the quote from Elder McConkie about being wrong read in class too. I have heard it in High Council talks, I have heard Bishops and Stake Presidents state it in one form or another. Most of the rank and file members I know believe this. I live out here in Southern California and it has always been thus. Members of course, understand that GAs are human with faults like everyone else. At least they would tell you that if you asked them. But, on an emotional level I think they believe that most GAs have transcended all things and it is a rare case when they fail in some way. They would argue that they are able to separate the fact that the Brethren fall prey to human frailties, but are certain when they speak from the pulpit, all they say is from the Lord himself. And they tend to think anyone else who doesn't view it that way is, "on the high road to apostacy". I didn't say the Brethren say this necessarily-but it is said by the rank and file all the time, and nothing much is done to have anyone think otherwise. And maybe that's worry some out there have: Perhaps too much free thinking might be a dangerous thing. Funny thing is, I've read things from Joseph Smith that had him encouraging it. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:53:28 -0700 It doesn't hurt to show someone as human either. Some people are frankly put off by Latter-day Saints because of this super-pious image many of them work so hard to maintain. Now if the character is also shown to be a caring and compassionate human being who is doing their best to live the Savior's higher law, I believe someone might still show interest in the Church despite the member's having had a Coke or something. If the character both imbibes "forbidden" beverages and doesn't give a rat's rear end about anybody, chances are folks will dismiss him as a hypocrite. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JanaRiess@aol.com Subject: [AML] This List Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:46:21 EDT Hello friends, I just wanted to take a moment and tell you all how much I have come to love this list. This afternoon I laughed long and heartily at Chris's story about listening to Metallica while editing the Conference talks; then the very next message was Margaret Young's beautiful post about the death of her friend's husband, and how they are coping. It brought me to tears. I don't always have time to read the posts, and rarely have time to contribute much, but this list has been a great blessing for me, and I just wanted you to know. It makes me more optimistic about Mormon literature and about Mormonism in general. I also greatly enjoyed meeting many of you last week in Salt Lake and Provo. Thanks for making me feel so welcome. Jana Riess -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dewey Remy Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:51:10 -0700 Matthew Lee wrote: > ...My question is, where > is this idea of non-erroring General Authorities > coming from among you on this list? > > It's clear that everyone who has posted a reply > is aware that the concept is not doctrinally correct > and it's not taught as doctrine by those with > authority to do so. What I want to know is where are > the members of this list hearing the opposite? > I've included, following my comments, three quotes that members sometimes draw upon to defend the infallibility of the GA's. I'm not saying that these are not problematic. I've provided links to where you can find them on the Church's website if you want to read them in context. Unfortunately, there seems to be more official teaching against freedom of thought in recent times. I know that there are a couple of old quotes where Brigham Young and his contemporaries exhorted the saints against blind obedience of even the highest authorities (and I believe that BY also has a couple more that contradict this counsel), but I can't think of what they are right now. Several years ago, Jana (Remy) gave me _An Abundant Life_, Hugh B. Brown's memoirs. He is now one of my favorite apostles. His book has some real gems in it--including: "We should be dauntless in our pursuit of the truth and resist all demands for unthinking conformity...Tolerance and truth demand that all be heard and tha competing ideas be tested against each other so that the best, which might not always be our own, can prevail." and, "We must preserve freedom of the mind in the church and resist all efforts to suppress it. The Church is not so much concerned with whether the thoughts of its members of orthodox or heterodox as it is tha they shall have thoughts." 1. From the Doctrine and Covenants, in the excerpts at the end of Official Declaration #1: "The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)" http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1 2. In the November 1979 Ensign, N. Eldon Tanner's First Presidency Message: "Today there are many issues under debate as controversies rage all around us. It should be evident to all that we need divine direction, as men and women who argue their causes seem to be unable to come to workable or peaceable solutions. It is sad indeed that the world does not know or accept the fact that in our midst is a prophet through whom God can direct the solution of world problems. "True Latter-day Saints have no such dilemma. They know that the messages of the prophet have come from the Lord and have the concurrence of all the General Authorities, who are men of vision and integrity, and who themselves try to keep in tune with deity. They are not, as some would suggest, following blindly and acting without their own agency to speak and think for themselves. Through prayer to our Heavenly Father each of us can have the assurance that the course we choose has his divine approval. "Why should there be any debate over the moral issues which are confounding the world today? From the beginning God has made his position very clear in regard to marriage, divorce, family life and love of children, immorality, chastity, virtue, and the high and holy role of women. Through his prophet today he reiterates the Old and New Testament teachings which are clear on these matters. "...[Satan] is the author of the debates on moral issues. He has sworn to thwart the purposes of God. He it is who deceives and lays in wait to promote his cunning schemes, promising the riches of this world as a reward to those who follow him. "...We cannot serve God and mammon. Whose side are we on? When the prophet speaks the debate is over." http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1979.htm/ensign% 20august%201979%20.htm/first%20presidency%20message%20the%20debate%20is% 20over.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 3. In General Conference, October 1992, speaking in the context of "deceivers" who are "misleading members to gather to colonies or cults," Boyd K. Packer said: "Come away from any others. Follow your leaders who have been duly ordained and have been publicly sustained, and you will not be led astray." http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1992.htm/ensign% 20november%201992%20.htm/to%20be%20learned%20is%20good%20if%20.htm?fn=do cument-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 In the way that I've included them here, we see a progression from: 1890: Infallibility of the "President of the Church" 1979: Infallibility of "the prophet" [could this be interpreted to include all 15 who are called as "prophets"? How about those who are called to be local "prophets" with limited jurisdiction?]. Other general authorities are also closely associated with the incontestable authority of the prophet in this message. Those who do not debate are "True Latter-day Saints"; those who debate are "those who follow [Satan]" 1992: "Duly ordained" and "publically sustained" leaders will not lead you astray. This progression is probably more a result of an accident in my selection of quotes than of an actual percolation over time of the perception of sacred, infallible authority lower and lower down the priesthood hierarchy. John Remy, UC Irvine -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500 At 07:20 AM 8/21/03 -1000, Peter Chamberlain wrote: >Just and interesting schizophrenia: I was at the Church-owned Polynesian >Cultural Center a few weeks ago and at the Luau I noticed that all of >the drinks at the soda fountain were caffeine free, yet right next to >the soda fountain was a bank of six or seven coffee pots. Sorta funny I >thought. Sssh . . . those are for visitors. -- Ronn! :) -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:32:58 -0500 At 05:04 PM 8/21/03 -0600, Thom Duncan wrote: > >Ultimately, we succeeded in doing a training video for Stake >Missionaries still used to this day. One of the stake missionaries is a >black man (actor Isaac Thomas). We felt it was quite a coup back in >those days. Yes, and on the sillier side we also got away with things like naming=20 investigators after characters in Sixties TV shows . . . -- Ronald W. ("Ronn!") Blankenship mailto: ronn.blankenship@att.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: thelairdjim Subject: Re: [AML] Great and Noble Ones Date: 22 Aug 2003 13:44:05 -0700 [MOD: Jim raises an interesting question here about what types of characters we prefer in the fiction we read and write, and why. Let's discuss...] On Thursday, Aug 21, 2003, at 08:58 America/Phoenix, Margaret Young wrote: > So are you implying that other people aren't great and noble? This is taken completely out of context for the point I want to make, particularly since Margaret Young stated that she DIDN'T feel like saying the above. Overall I was moved by her thoughts and sentiments, and have little to quibble over. In a sense I intend to expand rather than argue, but then I tend to turn just about anything into an argument somehow or other. The disagreement (if is is such) that I have with this statement is "why not?" I would be willing to say that there are plenty of people who were not great or noble in the pre-existence and still more who aren't this very moment. A good portion of the purpose in even coming to Earth is to learn responsibility and the vast majority of people throughout the world and down through time have done anything and everything to avoid responsibility. Since the reward for "making it" as Mormons like to say is the tender agony of a parent for countless unruly and blindly ignorant children, learning to be responsible becomes paramount among the light and truth necessary for the Celestial Kingdom. While egalitarianism is the rage these days, it is, was, and will always be a lie. There is no equality and never will be. When God stood among the noble and great they were empirically noble and great. It was not opinion it was fact. Now trying to deduce who among us today is noble and great is ridiculous, since with our inherent blinders on we are apt to err in this as in everything else. I would venture to say however that Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the rest of the merry Socialist butchers were all noble and great ones before coming to Earth to spit in God's eye. After all the Old Scratch himself was among the foremost. Being noble and great in the eons before coming to Earth doesn't necessarily make for a good life. Having the chance to see and recognize great ones is always a pleasure, however, particularly when they are coming into their own. One of the men I baptized on my mission was ten times the man I am; I was around long enough to ordain him an Elder as well, and he was instantly made the Elder's Quorum President. He was so Christlike it was embarrassing, and unfortunately I'm just as embarrassed now as I was then. Naturally I ought not to have believed that I should be superior to anyone I met on my mission, but so it was. I ALWAYS believed I had been noble and great, and perhaps I was. Doesn't mean I'm any great shakes at mortality. I've been sick of the unending use of anti-heroes for about twenty years now, and in my own writing the heroes (and heroines) are just about always noble and great ones. I don't really care to read constantly about how useless and immoral everybody is--like that's news or something. There are good and great things that take place every day, and noble things done that are unknown and unsung. There are more than enough examples of how not to live in literature, but (at least recently) a dearth of examples of how we should live. Whether or not I myself was noble and great, and whether or not I will ever be so during this life, I am not prevented from appreciating the great and noble things done by others, and of enshrining them as much as I can in literature. Perhaps nobody but a solitary great-great-grand-nephew will ever read about them, but even that would be worthwhile. This is the 7th inning stretch and there are noble and great ones all around us. I dare say that nobody alive right now was timid in the premortal war, and it's quite likely that some of the very greatest and noblest are here among us. Either way, the idea that we're all equal is very nice but will never happen and thank heaven for it. God may love us equally but that doesn't make us equal in anything else. It wouldn't be a test otherwise. Jim Wilson aka The Laird Jim -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] LaBute Analysis? Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:58:16 -0600 In anticipation of Irreantum's film-devoted issue this next winter (final text deadline: Dec. 15, 2003), I'm trying to put together some new material on Neil LaBute, hopefully including an interview with him, but at the least I'm looking for Mormon-perspective reviews of his films and for an essay assessing his overall career from a Mormon perspective. (While this issue will focus on film, in LaBute's case we'd also look into his drama too, I expect.) If anyone would like to do some writing on LaBute, please contact me at chris.bigelow@unicitynetwork.com. D. Michael Martindale will be the guest editor for this film issue, so he'll be the main hub for other types of ideas, approaches, and proposals anyone wants to make. (No doubt he will send out his own announcement soon, but I wanted to get a jump on LaBute now.) Another thing I plan to pursue for this issue is an interview with the Halestorm screenwriter John Moyer, as my contribution to looking at the insider Mormon film movement. I've also heard that someone is considering revisiting Tony Kushner and the Mormon elements in his "Angels in America," in light of its upcoming HBO production, so that might be another area where a call for contributions/ideas will be forthcoming. Chris Bigelow -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: CBS To Air Elizabeth Smart Ordeal Date: 22 Aug 2003 17:00:08 -0700 (PDT) deseretnews.com Deseret News, Friday, August 22, 2003 CBS to air Elizabeth Smart ordeal Telefilm on Elizabeth due around time of book By Scott D. Pierce and Derek Jensen Deseret Morning News=20 After months of negotiations, CBS has given the go-ahead to a TV movie about= =20 Elizabeth Smart and is set to announce a deal that would bring the story of= the=20 Salt Lake girl's kidnapping and eventual rescue to a nationwide audience. Elizabeth Smart=20 Ron Edmonds, Associated Press CBS is targeting the telefilm for the November sweeps period =97 close to= the=20 scheduled late October release date of the family's book, "Bringing= Elizabeth=20 Home: A Journey of Faith and Hope." Both the book and movie will tell the story of Elizabeth's kidnapping and= safe=20 return through the experiences of her parents, Ed and Lois Smart. "The focus of the book is how we dealt with the whole nine months, the ups= and=20 downs, how we filled different roles, how we felt differently about things= but=20 how we worked together and relied on each other to make it through," Ed= Smart=20 told the Deseret Morning News Thursday. Ed Smart would not say how much money his family was paid for the book and= movie=20 deals. Early industry reports from unidentified sources said the Smarts= could=20 get $400,000 to $500,000 for the story, the Associated Press reported.= Former=20 Smart family spokesman Chris Thomas estimated the family received more than= 100=20 book and film proposals following Elizabeth's safe return. CBS has signed a deal with Von Zerneck/Sertner Films and Patricia Clifford= =20 Productions, which acquired the rights to Ed and Lois Smart's story. Ed Smart referred any comments about the film to CBS. "We're happy that they're doing it," he said of the television network. According to sources at CBS, the movie will focus on the search from the=20 perspective of Elizabeth's parents. There will be some information about=20 Elizabeth's ordeal in captivity, but the network and the producers have=20 committed to avoiding exploitation of the story as much as possible. The movie deal does not include any exclusive interviews with 15-year-old=20 Elizabeth, her father said. "We haven't made any promises to anyone with regard to Elizabeth, and we are= not=20 planning on anyone interviewing her," Ed Smart said. "Her privacy is= something=20 we have been trying to secure, and her life has had so little privacy that= we=20 felt it's important for her to be able to keep the little bit that she has." Amber Marshall has been selected to play Elizabeth Smart. CBS Elizabeth will start her sophomore year next week at East High School, where= she=20 plans to compete as a member of the school's cross country team, her father= =20 said. "She can hardly wait," Ed Smart said. Elizabeth's parents have spent several hours doing interviews and crafting= the=20 book with collaborator Laura Morton. The book will also include family= photos=20 previously not released to the public, Ed Smart said. "There will probably be a couple of comments from Elizabeth (in the book),= but=20 overall it's a pretty in-depth look at how we made it through that nine= months,"=20 he said. Then 14 years old, Elizabeth was kidnapped from her bedroom at knife-point= in=20 the early morning hours of June 5, 2002, sparking a massive search. The teen= was=20 found last March 12 walking down State Street in Sandy with her alleged= captors,=20 Brian David Mitchell, 49, and Wanda Barzee, 57. Mitchell, a self-proclaimed prophet who authorities say snatched Elizabeth= so he=20 could take her as a plural wife, and Barzee are both charged with aggravated= =20 kidnapping, two counts of aggravated burglary and two counts of aggravated= =20 sexual assault. All five charges are first-degree felonies. Mitchell and= Barzee=20 are also facing one second-degree felony count of attempted aggravated=20 kidnapping in connection with the attempted abduction of one of Elizabeth's= =20 cousins. Both are still undergoing competency evaluations to determine if they're= able to=20 stand trial. Salt Lake County District Attorney David Yocom said Thursday= the=20 evaluations could be completed by early October, after which a court hearing= =20 would be scheduled, AP reported. CBS and the movie's producers are in the last stages of casting the major= roles,=20 but Dylan Baker and Lindsay Frost will star as Elizabeth's parents. Amber=20 Marshall, who co-starred in the CBS movie "The Christmas Shoes" last year,= will=20 play Elizabeth. Baker's credits range from the Tom Hanks-Paul Newman film= "The=20 Road to Perdition" to the sitcom "The Pitts." Besides TV, Frost had a= supporting=20 role in the thriller "The Ring." With Ed, Elizabeth and Lois Smart at his side, President Bush speaks= =20 before signing a wide-ranging package of child safety measures in the= Rose=20 Garden of the White House on April 30 in Washington, D.C.=20 Ron Edmonds, Associated Press Writer Nancey Silvers, daughter of TV legend Phil Silvers, has written a= number=20 of teleplays, including such TV movies as "Moms on Strike," "Christmas Every= =20 Day," "The Deidre Hall Story" and "Battling for Baby." She consulted with=20 members of the Smart family while working on the script. The producers have long and varied TV-movie credits. Frank von Zernek and= Robert=20 M. Sertner have produced comedies, dramas, horror, fact-based crime stories= and=20 historical pieces. They've even done one other Utah-related biopic =97= "Inside the=20 Osmonds." Clifford has a similarly varied list of credits that range from high-class= =20 productions ("To Dance with the White Dog") to productions for MTV ("The Def= =20 Leppard Story") to yet another Utah-tied movie =97 the 1991 "Aftermath: A= Test of=20 Love," which exploited the 1974 Hi-Fi murders in Ogden. For the most part, however, the team's credits stay away from exploitation = =97=20 something Ed and Lois Smart are looking to do. The Smart TV movie will not be produced in Utah but in Halifax, Nova Scotia,= =20 Canada, a common practice in the entertainment industry because of lower= costs=20 north of the border. Filming is slated to begin on Sept. 2. Meanwhile, Elizabeth's uncles, David and Tom Smart, are writing their own=20 account of the kidnapping story with the help of Deseret Morning News= columnist=20 Lee Benson. Tom Smart has been working on his portion of the book during a= =20 four-month leave of absence from his job as a photographer with the Deseret= =20 Morning News. The book won't be released until after the conclusion of Mitchell and= Barzee's=20 trial so as not to interfere with the release of Ed and Lois Smart's book= and=20 movie, he said. "Ed and Lois have wanted to tell their story, and that's what they're going= to=20 tell," Tom Smart said. "We just had different journeys. They are two= different=20 stories as far as what happened. We haven't really talked to publishers or= =20 signed anything with an agent yet. We've just been kind of waiting for Ed= and=20 Lois to do what they were going to do." E-mail: pierce@desnews.com; djensen@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company=20 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 22 Aug 2003 16:19:22 -0600 <<< I guess we as a group of writers have to use our agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or denigrating the church and its members into shame. >>> This either/or type of thinking is exactly what gives rise to so much Mormon literature that is merely disguised propaganda. What's wrong with having the purpose of honestly exploring and portraying human reality, both the good and the bad, and letting the chips fall where they may with regards to how people view the LDS Church? When a writer starts with the notion of strengthening the church's image or attracting investigators, he or she will likely not write anything challenging, provocative, deep, or authentic enough to be called real literature. I still think the Ostlings pegged it in _Mormon America_: "A characteristically literal turn of mind combined with dogmatic Mormon ideals and a certain cultural isolation results in highly sentimentalized" art, they write. In Mormonism, they continue, "art is confused with propaganda, never with a quest; preconceived answers precede questions. In Mormon culture art is inspiration or entertainment, not exploration. As a result, Mormons--like those in some other American sectarian groups--are largely absent from the highest levels of achievement in the fine arts, literature, and the humanities in general." Chris Bigelow -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (SL Trib) Snider firing Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:40:03 -0600 I do get a little tired of journalistic ethical gyrations . . . Fired writer fired over tip, related story By Celia R. Baker The Salt Lake Tribune Eric D. Snider always had plenty to say about the peculiarities of Utah County culture in his "Snide Remarks" column. That is not what cost him his job at The Daily Herald in Provo: Snider was fired over something he did not say. Snider failed to disclose his personal involvement in a story he covered for the Herald. Executive editor Randy Wright fired him Wednesday night, ending Snider's six-year tenure at the paper. In an Aug. 8 story in the Herald, Snider reported that the Grove Theatre in Pleasant Grove was pulling a production of Neil Simon's play "Rumors." The reason? Someone had informed copyright agency Samuel French Inc. that numerous profanities in the play were being deleted or changed. When Simon refused a belated request to allow changes in the script, producers canceled the play. "How Samuel French learned of the alterations is a mystery worthy of Agatha Christie more than Neil Simon," Snider's news report said. But Snider knew the answer to the mystery. He was the tipster, or one of them. A "clarification" in Thursday's Daily Herald said "another Herald staffer who was playing a leading role in the production, known to the writer, provided information about the script change to Samuel French Inc. . . . Snider has said he provided the same information to French as well." Snider told The Salt Lake Tribune that his understanding when he spoke anonymously to an agent at Samuel French Inc. was that another call was received by the agency, and that it was not his action that resulted in the play being pulled. "But even though I thought my call was not relevant to the news that occurred, I should have told my boss up front," he said. Wright was unavailable for comment Thursday. Albert Manzi, the Daily Herald's president and publisher, said Snider "did his job well enough to continue his employment" during his six years at the paper, but Manzi declined to comment on whether there were other reasons behind the firing. "I have no problem admitting I definitely screwed up. It was an error in judgment, that's for sure," Snider said. "Whether it's worth being fired over, I guess that's the question . . . I get the sense that it's very hip to be fired for an ethics violation nowadays. I think that's the feeling at newspapers. They'll fire anyone, even the editor if they have to, just to say to the public, 'Look how noble and trustworthy we are.' " Manzi disagreed, saying the Herald's ethical policy is clear and has not changed in recent years. Bob Steele, a senior faculty member in ethics at Poynter Institute, a journalism think tank in St. Petersburg, Fla., sees several problems with Snider's behavior. "The story [Snider wrote] is not factually accurate because it leaves out key information that the reporter was aware of. He knew who the source was for the tip." Steele said the story was unfair to readers, and to producers at the theater, because Snider had "a specific and significant involvement in the story. He supplied the tip that led to the copyright action, which has now led to him writing about it." "[Snider's] original action was unwise. To provide a tip of this kind is not the role of a journalist," Steele said. "He could have written about this issue at square one if he believed there was a story to be told about the changes the producers made in the play. If the holders to the rights wanted to respond with some action, that's their choice. [Snider] was beyond his bounds to blow the whistle directly to the holders of the rights. He compounded that judgment error with significant journalistic and ethical failures." -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Deseret News: Hatch Friend Buys His CD's Date: 22 Aug 2003 17:05:04 -0700 (PDT) deseretnews.com Deseret News, Friday, August 22, 2003 Hatch friend buys his CDs Developer says purchase of 1,200 discs not political By Lee Davidson Deseret Morning News WASHINGTON =97 As he was seeking political favors, a friend of Sen. Orrin= Hatch=20 bought a whopping 1,200 copies of Hatch's largely self-produced music CDs,= for=20 which Hatch receives $3 to $7 each. Hatch, R-Utah, and his friend, Monzer Hourani, a Houston developer who twice= =20 before has landed Hatch into major ethics controversies, say he wasn't= trying to=20 buy political help with those CDs and they merely share a love of his music. But the story, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, is attracting= national=20 attention because, of course, ethics rules ban lobbyists from paying money= =20 directly to senators. Also, the situation is reminiscent of a scandal that forced former House= Speaker=20 Jim Wright, D-Texas, to resign. In it, labor unions and other interest= groups=20 bought in bulk copies of a book that Wright wrote =97 giving him extra= royalties.=20 The House Ethics Committee accused him of using that purchase to evade= outside=20 earnings limits. It isn't the first time that Hourani has caused ethics headaches for Hatch.= =20 Hourani was fined $10,000 in 1995 by the Federal Election Commission for=20 illegally trying to evade donation limits. After he gave Hatch the maximum= =20 allowed, Hourani gave money to employees to donate in their names to him.= Hatch=20 said he didn't know about it, and he was not forced to return the illegal=20 donations. A more serious episode deepened Hatch's involvement in the Bank of Credit= and=20 Commerce International (BCCI) scandal, a bank closed for money laundering.= After=20 Hatch gave a Senate speech defending that bank, he asked its president to=20 consider giving Hourani a loan. It helped deepen an ethics probe into= whether=20 Hatch unethically helped BCCI for favors, but he was cleared of any= misdeeds. This time, the Wall Street Journal reported that about when Hourani sought a= =20 favor from Hatch, he bought 1,200 copies of religious and patriotic music= that=20 Hatch recorded largely with his own financing through Prime Recordings.= Hourani=20 gave away the albums. Hourani did not return phone calls to the Deseret Morning News seeking= comment.=20 Adam Elggren, Hatch's spokesman, said Hatch has "never really made any= money" on=20 those particular recordings and has broken about even after costs. Meanwhile, Hatch's financial disclosure statement shows he also has an= agreement=20 with Medistar =97 a "medical real estate company" led by Hourani =97 to= distribute=20 Hatch CDs, an unusual arrangement for any company not in the music business. Elggren said the senator had earned little or no money through that= distribution=20 arrangement with Medistar. Hatch's office declined to provide a copy of the= =20 contract with Medistar. While Hourani bought Hatch's CDs, the Wall Street Journal reported that he= also=20 volunteered to seek help from the senator for HealthSouth, a health-care=20 provider that is a major client of Hourani. HealthSouth worried that a change in Medicare's policy for reimbursing=20 physical-therapy costs would cut its annual profit by $175 million. Hourani= told=20 the Journal that he told a HealthSouth lobbyist that he would see what he= could=20 do to help, and that he "mentioned" the matter to Hatch "but did not tell= Hatch=20 to call anybody." Hatch did call the administrator of Medicare asking him to look into the= matter,=20 the Journal reported. But Hatch told the paper he did so at the request of= the=20 man who was then HealthSouth's CEO, not at the request of Hourani. But Hatch= =20 said he was aware that HealthSouth was a major client of Hourani's Medistar. Medicare did not give HealthSouth the relief it sought. HealthSouth also is= =20 currently embroiled in an accounting scandal, and 14 of its executives have= been=20 charged with fraud. Hourani is a native of Lebanon who converted to The Church of Jesus Christ= of=20 Latter-day Saints 20 years ago. Hatch said he was first introduced to him by= =20 friends who asked him to help the Arab adapt to the LDS faith. "Monzer Hourani and I have been very close friends since I first began to=20 counsel him as a member of the LDS Church almost 20 years ago. I love Monzer= =20 like a brother. He is a warm, decent, high-quality individual and a= brilliant=20 engineer, and he shares my love of classical and inspirational music =97= that's=20 why we have worked together to produce some CDs. Finally, I cannot stress= enough=20 that I have always disclosed all of my royalties," Hatch said. Hatch and Hourani have had some other business arrangements as well. Hourani= =20 once managed for Hatch a small blind trust, in which Hatch originally= invested=20 $10,000. Hourani bought a rental townhome in Houston for Hatch with that= money=20 and managed it. Hatch and his office denounced any suggestion that political favors were, or= =20 could, be bought from him. "People often try to smear Sen. Hatch because he's an effective,= influential,=20 conservative lawmaker =97 he's a high-profile target. But the insinuations= made in=20 this story are without merit," Elggren said. "As best as we can determine, no lobbyist has ever bought Sen. Hatch's CDs= in=20 any significant quantity =97 certainly nothing resembling a bulk purchase.= The=20 point is, everything he has done has been completely above-board, he's=20 recognized as a successful songwriter, and all his royalties have been= disclosed=20 as required," Elggren added. Hatch also issued a statement saying, "Everybody who knows me knows I make= music=20 as a labor of love. . . . I'm grateful I've had some success as a= songwriter,=20 but the important thing is, I'm able to share my thoughts and feelings with= =20 others through music. I'm going to keep doing that." E-mail: lee@desnews.com =A9 2003 Deseret News Publishing Company=20 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] Great and Noble Ones Date: 22 Aug 2003 17:30:01 -0700 (PDT) --- Margaret Young wrote: . Surely there=92s plenty we = > can > pick away at. [snip] Thank you for this beautiful post. It puts into perspective a lot of the petty little worries that we allow to distract us from the essence of the Gospel. Yes, I get upset with the silliness that can happen in cultural Mormonism. But when we get real adversity; when we come face to face with illness, death and mortality, that's when the spirit speaks to us and lets us know what's really important. Margaret's post may be the single most important thing I have ever read on AML-List. R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 22 Aug 2003 18:41:06 -0600 I think that we have established a pretty reliable posit in our church doctrine that none of us (humans) are anywhere near perfect. Christ was the only perfect one, and we are all trying to follow Him. The world is not perfect, nothing is perfect. That is why we were created and sent here to earth to gain further light and knowledge and learn how to deal with the physical aspects of life eternal. I also believe that part of our mission is to help perfect the earth while we struggle to perfect ourselves. If humans are not perfect, and GA's are humans, then it stands to reason that Ga's are not perfect, but they are more perfect than any of the rest of us, and when they make a mistake it is usually based on a righteous motive, and as long as we do not go overboard on it or carry it to self interpreted extremes, we won't be led too far astray. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jongiorgi's e-mail" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 22 Aug 2003 19:18:33 -0600 Very good points, Thom. I agree, Portman, usually great, is pretty bad in the SW's. I have a second theory. This film was almost entirely shot on blue-screen, forcing the actors to constantly work in an environment where they had to supply their surroundings, and even other characters they had to interact with, mentally. I imagine that is a draining process week after week. Perhaps even the best actor starts phoning it in when half their scenes are on blue soundstages talking to crewmembers in blue tights holding a tennis ball on a stick over their head to represent an alien's eye-line. Jongiorgi Enos ----- Original Message ----- > Is he that bad and actor or is George a bad director. I just finished > watching the Professional with a young Natalie Portman. She was > marvelous in that. In SW, she sucked big time. Some actors need great > directors to be good (Gregory Peck was among them). Other actors (like > Gene Hackman) nail their performances every time no matter who the > director is. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Parkinson Subject: re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 22 Aug 2003 21:58:04 -0600 Linda Adams wrote: <<<<< There has never been a denial of the concept of a Mother in Heaven, although it's common knowledge that this is the usual interpretation of "O My Father." But to my recollection it's never been preached from the pulpit either, as doctrine. >>>>> The doctrinal basis is a statement by Joseph F. Smith and the First Presidency: "All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity" (James. R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency, 4:203).This is the Nov. 1909 statement on the Origin of Man, which is at least as significant a document as the Proclamation on the Family--about as close to scripture as you can get without being scripture. (It was reprinted in the Ensign in Feb. 2002.) The doctrine is taught in our manuals, including the Old Testament gospel doctrine manual and the Doctrines of the Gospel institute manual I'm working to retypeset now. Our curriculum writers are instructed that they can teach it from time to time. Ben Parkinson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Parkinson Subject: [AML] More Bookbinding Adventures Date: 22 Aug 2003 23:29:49 -0600 I've continued to experiment with bookbinding and have made some headway. My goal is to print and bind the series of family histories I'm writing, but this applies to any kind of small-scale self-publishing. (The other day I took my family to see O Brother Where Art Thou, and the kids got interested in the Odyssey. So I downloaded the text from Project Gutenberg, spent an evening or two typesetting and printing it, hand bound it, with a photo of a Greek vase printed on the front cover, and then gave it to them to read. In spite of a few flaws, it looks as good as most books you'd buy, and a far sight better than the Penguin editions. I've got three of my kids working on their own books right now, partly on the promise to hand bind them when they're done.) First a few technical notes, and then I'll describe my process as it's evolved. I've soured on Yes glue because it doesn't seem to dry hard enough and sometimes separates. Based on advice from Paris Anderson and Michael Collings, I went to Aleene's Tacky Glue, a PVA glue, and have been happy with the results. I think Elmers would probably work as well. Elmers used to be like wood glue, and I think Elmer's School Glue may still be, but Elmer's all purpose glue I'm pretty sure is a PVA glue now. This is based on classroom chemistry experiments my wife Robin has done with the different glues--she's convinced the two kinds of Elmer's are different and that the all-purpose glue is a PVA. We still have problems with the covers warping, but after a conversation with an artist I work with (who recommended we heat them in the oven), we figured out we could iron them. There's a kind of paper used for ironing transfers onto fabric that we use to keep from scorching them. Once we iron them, they seem to stay flat--this seems to have solved the problem. I've figured out more convenient ways to make signatures using Microsoft Publisher. You can set the whole book in one big chunk, and then print 32-page sections as separate booklets--each will come out as a signature without you having to lay it out that way. Publisher apparently will only let you have one set of page numbers, which is pretty stupid when you consider how many books use separate pagination for the front matter--pretty well all of them. But you can set the first signature separately and do those page numbers manually. I made a template with the page numbers in their own "story." (A "story" in desktop publishing is a discrete set of linked text boxes. A desktop publishing file can have one or more stories--you typically would have a story for each chapter, or you might even put the entire book in a single story.) Each text box in my page number story is one line long. I can edit the entire story in Microsoft Word, though , so I simply load it into Word and type the sequence of numbers I want with a number on each line, like this: i ii iii iv v vi 1 2 3 or whatever. Each number appears in the proper box on each page, and it's not hard to adjust the numbering or to insert or delete pages. I still print my signatures to PDF using Adobe Acrobat. I was typesetting a 6x9 book for my cousin and made a happy little discovery. Before I was having to print these on ledger paper and then fold and trim (emphasis on "trim"--you waste a lot of paper going from 11x17 to 9x12 ). But if you use Acrobat Reader's shrink-to-fit-page feature, you can print a book in that format on letter paper, trim just a bit, and get a book that's not too different from trade paperback. I plan to make a large-print and a small-print edition of this particular book. The shrunken type is still very smooth and readable, but some of my older cousins will appreciate the larger type of the full-size edition. Here's my process for binding books, then: * I typeset in Microsoft Publisher and print out 32-page signatures, usually 8 sheets of legal paper or letter paper in landscape mode. I fold the signatures and crease them with a bone folder. Lately I've been weighting them with encyclopedias so they'll lie flatter when I sew them. * I punch holes for the thread. To do this I open the signatures and place them in the corner of a shoebox on my lap. I place a paper guide on this with the locations for the holes marked and then punch through them with a thin awl I bought at an art supply store (together with the bone folder). * I stretch three strands of twill tape between two shelves on my wall and secure them with masking tape and then sew the signatures using waxed carpet thread. (I follow the directions in Aldren A. Watson's "Hand Bookbinding"--I think this part is pretty universal.) * I glue on the end-pieces. For my latest books I'm trying out construction paper, which must be about 30 or 40 pound. I trim them to the same size as the paper I printed on (letter or legal as the case may be) and then fold them in half. Then I use a piece of wax paper for masking as I spread a thin bead of glue along the spine-edge of the outer signature and attach the end paper for that side. I weight it an hour or two and do the same for the other side. * I place the sewn book between two plywood boards, tug on the tapes, square up the signatures with an L-square, and clamp down the boards with C-clamps. I measure everything to make sure it's even and then screw it down pretty tight. I apply glue to the spine and glue on a muslin mull and let it dry overnight. * I use my square to help me draw trim lines. I'd been doing my own trimming with a book cutter we have at work but never could get it quite smooth--maybe the blade's gone dull. This last time I took it to our company print shop instead, which trimmed them very well and didn't charge me anything, though they seem to have gone about 1/8th of an inch past my trim lines. * Since I've gotten better at this and am managing to do all the previous steps and come out with a square book, I find I can do the cover separately and glue it on after the fact. I cut the boards, either from matte scraps from the local bookstore or from binder board. (I think matte is probably adequate for a lighter book.) I make them long enough so there's maybe a 1/8 inch overlap on top and bottom, but on width I make them the same size as the pages, so there'll be an indentation where the covers bend. I cut a piece for the spine of thin cardboard rather than the heavier matte or binder board. * I print cover papers for the front and back. I use my Epson C82 printer, which will only print 8 1/2 inches wide--meaning you have to do it in three pieces--but which gives truly photographic images using inks rated to last 70 years. This is better than you'd do with even higher-end Epsons right now, though I understand there's been a lot of clamor for it in the art market, so it's no doubt on the way. I've printed onto watercolor papers and various other heavy art papers, and they seem to work very well. * I print the spine piece on the third piece of paper. This is my biggest innovation since my last post. I'd been using cloth for this and trying to figure out how to print on textile. We looked at transfers and screen printing but couldn't come up with anything that seemed durable enough. We tried printing on colored papers with the Epson, but the results were readable or even recognizable--these printers depend on the white already being there. Finally it occurred to me I could print a dark background on white paper and leave the lettering white and get it to stand out that way. My latest spine papers have been on cardstock, which seems to work fine. This might not be as durable as cloth, but then again it might actually be stronger if it's less likely to fray or separate from the boards. If Paris Anderson is right that the strength of this kind of book is in the mull, I figure my chances are good. * I glue the cover papers to the cover boards, fold, trim, etc. I follow Watson's instructions pretty much here, and then weight everything with encyclopedias. * When that's dry, I attach the cover to the book by gluing the mull to the boards, and then I fold down the end papers and glue those to the boards and then weight everything. I follow Watson's suggestion of slipping sheets of wax paper between the pages to keep the glue from going where it shouldn't. I slip a sheet of cardboard under the end by the spine to get the crease as it dries. * In theory the glue on the outside of the boards (from the cover papers) causes them to warp one way, and the glue on the inside (from the end papers) brings them back. In practice, I can't seem to get them flat. So I iron them after the fact, using the kind of paper you use for cloth transfers to keep from scorching the book. * When it's all dry, I wrap the pages in wax paper and spray the cover with a UV varnish. This protects the Epson inks, which are only rated to last a long time if they've got UV protection. It also protects the paper covers against smudges, which they seem to attract like magnets. I wind up with a book that looks pretty much like one you buy in a store. The main difference is the picture is on the cover rather than on a jacket. It's kind of like a paperback book in that way. Besides that the main giveaway is that my books don't have the little epaulette pieces along the spine--I'm looking for a cheap place to buy those. I don't think they serve any structural purpose, unless it's to obscure any unevenness in your sewing. This kind of binding I believe will prove much more durable than perfect binding or the other styles people are using. The books lie flat, can be photocopied without putting stress on the binding, and to all appearances should hold up to repeated readings over many years (and hopefully many decades). But getting them to look professionally made is also a preservation issue. It helps convince your readers, far flung in time and space, that this is a "real" book, so they're less likely to throw it away 75 years from now when Grandma dies and they're cleaning out her things. Ben Parkinson Ogden, Utah, USA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "margaret young" Subject: [AML] Joseph Smith Ordination of Elijah Abel Date: 23 Aug 2003 13:59:56 +0000 This message is from Margaret Young, using home internet (Greenhark@hotmail.com). Apparently, there are a number of people wondering about the veracity of the claim that Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel to the priesthood. I received a call from the Church Historical Department on Thursday asking what source we (Darius Gray and I) had for that information. Unfortunately, I had to report that we do NOT have the primary documentation--the certificate itself. I did not write down the name of the man who called me, so if any of you receiving this post has contacts in the Church Historical department, please forward this and ask that it be circulated. My sources were Newell Bringhurst, probably the leading expert on Elijah Abel, and Marie Taylor, a remarkable genealogist who specializes in African American genealogy and African American Church history. Marie responded to the question this way: "When I saw the information it was in the Family History Library. However, the film was removed several years later to the Historical Department. In the old days, they made copies by pressing the original inked letters between wetted pages of a bound book of onion skin. The moisture caused fresh ink from the originals to seep into the onion skin, creating mirror images. I can't remember now if it was just a register of men ordained or if it was a copy of the certificate like the kind I mention above." The man I spoke to from the Church Historical department indicated that the only certificate they had was the register of men ordained into the priesthood in 1836, signed by Joseph Smith. When I spoke directly to Newell Bringhurst about the documentation, he regretfully could not give primary proof. However, Newell does provide secondary documentation in his book _Saints, Slaves and Blacks_, published by Greenwood Press. He says on page 37 that the ordination "according to at least one account, was performed by Joseph Smith." His source for that is a manuscript by Eunice Kenny titled "My Testimony of the Latter Day Work" published around 1885 and located in the Church Historical Department. There are some important conclusions I draw from this information: 1) We should perhaps include Newell's phrase "according to at least one account" in our endnotes and maybe use the word "likely" on the book cover's mention of the ordination. 2) We cannot state with absolute certainty that Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel, though it seems at least likely. Certainly, Joseph Smith knew of the ordination. Joseph Sr. gave Elijah a patriarchal blessing which acknowledged, "Thou hast been ordained an elder..." 3) If indeed (as I believe) Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel, that fact was not widely known in later years. Had it been known, the meeting of John Taylor, A.O. Smoot and Zebedee Coltrin in 1879 (see _Bound for Canaan_) would surely have mentioned it. As it was, the primary proof of Elijah's priesthood was the reading of his patriarchal blessing at that particular meeting. This is the best I can do with the documentation, given the fact that we do not have the original certificate. I am certainly willing to acknowledge what we DON'T have, but would also ask that the sources we do have be given their due. Unfortunately, we have nothing written by ELijah Abel himself. Since we do have a document from Nauvoo wherein he signs an "X" for his name, we know he could not write during those years. I assume there are no records of his life from his own account, only from others' accounts. Unfortunately, that's all we have to go on. With Jane James, who dictated her life history, we have much more reliable data. We also know (from a letter she dictated to Wilford Woodruff) that she was aware of another black man who had the priesthood--Walker Lewis. She reported that Lewis had been ordained by Parley P. Pratt, though that was incorrect. My information says that William Smith, brother of Joseph, ordained Walker Lewis. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 23 Aug 2003 09:48:27 -0600 D. Michael Martindale wrote: > When Jesus condemns the Pharisees, I think he's speaking as much to us > in modern times as he was to his contemporaries. Are we piling on our > own set of ad hoc rules that we demand each other live, because we > somehow don't think the principles of the gospel are good enough to > teach us to govern ourselves? I'm not sure it's about not trusting the gospel so much as it's about not trusting ourselves. It's why Satan's plan drew an entire third of the hosts of heaven away--people are afraid of their own potential for error and want to be saved from their own mistakes. Sure, some of those that followed Satan were evil in heart and wanted to overthrown God's power, but I suspect an awful lot of them were just afraid of failing. Or maybe I'm projecting. It's why I have an increasingly hard time condemning people for their behavioral excesses--of either the conservative or liberal sort. I think most people operate at least partially on a basis of fear. I hedge myself up with little rules designed to keep me from really, truly messing up, then feel threatened when someone takes an apparently cavalier and dismissive attitude toward my efforts to save my own soul. In an effort to justify my own choices I turn my focus outward on the flaws of others rather than inward on the quality of my own desires. That's less about hypocrisy than about unintentional self-deception. The pharisees really were hypocrites who had devised one standard of living for themselves and another standard for others--then enforced it from their positions of power. They knew that what they were doing was protecting their own power base, not trying to improve the lives of others. It was yet another hijack of religion by the cynical and politically motivated. I don't think most people operate from that position of knowledge of the error of their own practices. I think most people have a vague sense that they still haven't quite got it right, but honestly believe that if everyone would act the way they do the world would be a better place. I regularly curse other motorists with a muttered "May you always be surrounded by people who drive just like you." I think there's a difference between hypocrisy and inconsistency (or the moral tyrrany that can often result). From my perspective, most people (Mormon or otherwise) really want to be better than they are. When they fail to live up to their own moral vision, they become angry and often take it out on others--not because they excuse their own behavior, but because they truly hate their own failures. They already feel pretty poorly about their own efforts and want to expose the errors of others so they don't have to hate themselves along with their errors. Having said all of that, I honestly believe that most of us don't have sufficient faith in the atonement of Christ. Many of us fear that we can't really be forgiven for our sins, that even God can't be that understanding. I think its why so many Mormons get hung up on the concept of punishment as opposed to justice--we can't ensure justice, but we darned well *can* mete out punishment in a hope of creating good behavior in others, and perhaps even assuage our own guilt that despite our own weakness we're still doing a good work. (I just finished reading "Crime and Punishment;" can you tell?) It's a core struggle of Mormonism--to allow others the space to both err and repent. Where does stewardship (...the sin be on the head of the parents...) intersect with true justice, mercy, and the need for real, internalized repentence? Most of the Mormon literature I've read stops somewhat short of that core struggle. Many stories are an attempt to justify a particular set of behaviors (permissive or restrictive) as good and righteous--in the process dismissing or villainizing other behavior that may be equally effective for people who think differently. A sort of passive-aggressive counter-judgment against all those people who judge me. I'm listening to Metallica's black album as I write this (cheers, Chris) and I'm struck again at how effectively they use the principles of tolerance and acceptance to utterly condemn those whose methods of self justification differ from their own. Tolerance should always be used to excuse my own excesses while condemning the excesses of others. Mormons have been no different in telling our stories. Either on the right or the left. Is there a market for a story wherein people with utterly different approaches to both public and private morality can be shown as equally valid--and righteous? I don't recall ever seeing it done. There's still plenty of room for conflict in a story like that, but the focus changes from being a condemnation of those people over there to an exploration of coming to acceptance of that group of "us" who behave so differently than I do. Scott Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Turk325@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 23 Aug 2003 12:21:51 EDT An earlier post mentioned, "Joseph Smith gave us a good basic outline to follow when he said, 'Teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves.'" A small but important point: The quotation is "I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves" (Messages of the First Presidency, Vol.3, p.54). Note the difference. One quotation implies control over the people: "*Let* them govern themselves." (As if governance can be let.) The other implies no such control: "They govern themselves." Joseph implied no such control. Meaning behind the words. Wow. Kurt Weiland -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 23 Aug 2003 14:43:33 -0600 At 05:20 PM 8/21/03 -0500, you wrote: >And no one has suggested the one name that absolutely every single woman I >know swoons over (including myself, and I honestly do not pay much >attention to these things): Orlando Bloom. Well, he doesn't do it for me, and I'm very swoonable. So now you know one! Mybe it's because at my age he just looks like baby beefcake. In LOTR, I liked Boromir because I love Sean Bean. He had a great death scene, but I fantasized about pulling his funeral boat out of the water and miraculously restoring him to life. Sean is a cross-genre actor--fantasy in LOTR, adventure fiction in the Richard Sharpe movies, villainy in that Harrison Ford movie, and sex object in Lady Chatterly, which for some reason is considered great literature. There's my connection! I don't know who he could play in a Mormon movie. If he were in the bishopric and on the stand every Sunday, I'll bet there would be great attendance among a certain segment of sisters. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Melanie Dahlin Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 24 Aug 2003 08:20:47 -0600 We can read anything into any statement. General authorities are inclined to their own opinion from time to time. They are, after all, human; however, if they have an opinion that goes against actual commandments, then that is when general authorities are removed from the church. We must learn to filter through spiritual facts from opinions. When there is conflicting information on a specific issue (i.e. wearing white shirts to pass the sacrament), then most likely the information is a G.A.'s opinion and not God's commandment. Granted, it isn't true in every case, but it seems to be true in some cases. Finally, the issue about race is extremely controversial. It is a touchy subject and one that is not well-understood. Many statements have been made by general authorities which seem to contradict our current, religious beliefs. However, it is important to keep in mind the "social times" of the statements. Many years ago, blacks (and other races) were slaves and it was an acceptable social practice. Thus, when the church was first organized, racial inequality was a social belief that many people, including some general authorities, still held. God could not expect the embryo church members and leaders to suddenly live the adult law all at once. They needed to go through a gradual, growing, process. The higher law of equality has since been taught and publicized. In our current "social time," we base our knowledge on those teachings of our forefathers; therefore, we believe in the law of equality and hold to it. We base our knowledge on the knowledge and experiences of our forefathers, and we have developed their ideas. Without that initial basis, we would be wafting through spiritual, racial, moral, emotional, political, and intellectual matters much like the early leaders of the church. God must lead his children along. Again, He cannot expect imperfect beings to live a perfect law all at once. It takes time, patience, and experience. DO NOT misunderstand me. I am not excusing the behavior and words of the early church leaders. I am only trying to help people understand the true processes at work. [Melanie Dahlin] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] (SL Trib) Review: _The Wives of Short Creek_ Date: 25 Aug 2003 10:58:49 -0600 Slapstick in print By Martin Naparsteck Special to the Tribune The Wives of Short Creek By Gerald Grimmett Limberlost Press, $21.95 Gerald Grimmett in The Wives of Short Creek has given us a good, old-fashioned farce, and like all farces, it needs a target. His target, as the title suggests (Short Creek is the former name of Colorado City, the world's most famous polygamist community), is religious extremism. The plot of the novel revolves around a claim by a community member that he possesses the only copy of "the last prophecy" of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon church, and an attempt by the publisher of a Salt Lake City newspaper, the Courier & Mail, to purchase it for $2 million. Farce, of course, is melodrama that is intended to be funny. (We often laugh at melodrama that isn't farce, but the writer doesn't want us to). As such, it deals with overdrawn plots and inflated characters -- and Grimmett's novel is no exception. When farce is a work of literature, it's slapstick in words. Consider this sentence, a little more than half way through the novel: "If you dressed Heber in a dark blue business suit, hung a Rush Limbaugh tie around his neck, and placed him in a bank, he'd look a little like Burl Ives after a Pritikin diet." Even outside the context of the plot, the sentence not only makes sense but provides a clear indication of the book's tone. It's both irreverent and dependent on the reader being familiar with varying cultural references (Limbaugh, Ives, the Pritikin diet). The 75-year-old bishop of Short Creek ("15 or so . . . wives, 43 children, and 289 Grandchildren and umpteen great-grandchildren") wants the town's sheriff, Heber Dean Smith, to handle the sale of the document containing Smith's final prophecy. He also wants the sheriff to take more wives; Smith, to the bishop's chagrin, is satisfied with one, Zinny. On the other side, C.J. Thomas, a reporter for the Courier & Mail, "the only anti-establishmentarian newspaper between Denver and San Francisco" and rival of "the church owned Deseret Call," is sent by the publisher to deliver the money. Thomas isn't real happy about the assignment, having more fun doing other things (when we first meet him he's with "A butt-naked coed . . . He'd picked up . . . that evening at a Jazz game"). There are varying subplots, a key one involving a woman who believes "being a wife to a good Mormon was as boring as sorting socks" and that the culture she's a part of believes "to be childless was a sin akin to drunkenness" and that "barren women were to be pitied." And there's Rose Lee, who was divorced after five years of marriage by "Bishop-to-be DeKay LaMott." The problems started when Rose Lee received what DeKay called "filthy pornography." She had "absent-mindedly signed a petition [for the Arizona Women's Alliance] in the Kingman Mall, having no idea what it was for, but the solicitor had a cute butt . . . That act had got her on a mailing list. To make ends meet, AWA sold the mailing list which fell into the hands of some very unsavory companies who offered mail order marital aids, discount phone sex, and some pretty racy bed gear." As is typical of literary farce (think of Joseph Heller's Catch 22 or Shakespeare's "A Midsummer's Night Dream") subtlety isn't a virtue here. The farce is effective or not effective much the same way as a stand-up comedian's routine. The jokes accumulate, and even if one isn't particularly funny the audience laughs because of the momentum built up by previous lines. Humor, of course, is also like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. By the time, close to the end of the book, we learn exactly what the final prophecy of Joseph Smith says, some readers may be disappointed because it's not the least bit farcical. It's serious but certain to displease both devout members of the Mormon church and residents of Colorado City. For Grimmett The Wives of Short Creek is both a continuation of and a significant departure from the themes he explored in his 2001 novel, The Ferry Women, which was narrated by a fictional wife of John D. Lee, one of the leaders of the gang of murderers who killed more than 120 men, women, and children at the Mountain Meadows massacre in 1857. That novel was a serious and convincing exploration of polygamy (Lee had 15 wives) and the effect it had on one of the wives. This new novel is, of course, intended to make us laugh. And the laughs should be guffaws, not snickers or quiet and knowing smiles. This is farce. ----- Martin Naparsteck reviews books from and about the West for The Salt Lake Tribune. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 25 Aug 2003 13:09:11 -0600 Bill Willson wrote: > Since when does cuteness justify damaging the image of anyone, or the image > of the church members? I think you're exaggerating the power of the cute scenes to damage us. We've done much more damage to our own image than these trivial scenes ever could. > I guess we as a group of writers have to use our > agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the > church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or > denigrating the church and its members into shame. Were the writers of that film LDS? If not, how is this relevant? But ignoring that point, let me respond to what you said. I sure hope as writers that we have more options than these two to choose from. Because if we don't, I give up right now. I sure don't want to write something that denigrates and shames. But at the same time, I am not the least bit interested in writing stories whose purpose is to strengthen the IMAGE of the church and attract readers to investigate it. That's a recipe for writing crap. I prefer to write stories that are honest, believing that honesty is its own virtue that will automatically cause good things to result. I continually stand in amazement at how many Mormons give integrity short shrift in art, as if it weren't one of the most important virtues. Apparently when a storyteller is about to spin a yarn, suddenly image is more important than honesty. Not in my value system. Those cute scenes in the movie about Mormons' freaky attitude toward caffeine were honest. Mormons being freaky about caffeine in inconsistent and arbitrary ways has damaged our image a zillion times more than this movie will. The cute scenes may do some good because they're honest. Maybe they'll cause a few Mormons to rethink how stupid they come across sometimes and mend their ways. > Here is to good writing designed to strengthen and uplift. And how does honesty not do that? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 25 Aug 2003 13:14:53 -0600 Linda Adams wrote: > And no one has suggested the one name that absolutely every single woman I > know swoons over (including myself, and I honestly do not pay much > attention to these things): Orlando Bloom. > (Legolas the Elf and the Will Turner in Pirates of the Carribean) > He's proven he can change hair and eyes successfully. > If swooning is what is wanted... :-) he's your actor. Somehow I think the swoon factor is not what Dutcher is going for. -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 25 Aug 2003 13:36:57 -0600 Matthew Lee wrote: > In my circle of influence, with the exception of > lists like this, I never hear these kinds of comments. > What I've picked up on from these posts is a > frustration with those who promote the non-erroring > perspective. However, I would like to assume that > there really aren't any members of the Church who > truly believe in perfect General Authorities. No, we don't believe in perfect General Authorities. But we do believe in almost perfect General Authorities--in other words, only men who are superior in righteousness and spirituality to rank-and-file members ever get called to the position, men who are uttering new scripture when they speak (at least in an official capacity), men who never let their own personal biases get in the way of their understanding of true doctrine. If you want examples, I can think of two recent ones I've experienced. Lavina Fielding Anderson, one of the "September Six," spoke at the Sunstone Symposium held a couple weeks ago. When she was excommunicated by her stake president, she wrote to him and asked what she would need to do to be reinstated. He responded that she needed to accept that church leaders can't be wrong. I personally have run into a disagreement with my bishop on a particular doctrinal issue. In spite of the fact that I've testified to him that the Spirit has already answered me to my satisfaction on the subject, he has attempted to "correct" me to his way of thinking by asking me why I can't "trust" him (over the Spirit, I guess), and he has put words into Gordon B. Hinckley's mouth on the assumption that we "know" this is what President Hinckley would say, then equated these statements to the will of Christ. Is that good for starters? The concept is out there, and just because we allow church leaders a "little" fallibility for appearance's sake doesn't mean the doctrine isn't pervasive in the church that we are supposed to obey church leaders no matter what, because they "cannot lead us astray." In fact, that's one of the official definitions of apostasy that we can be excommunicated for, that we don't obey the instructions of church leaders. How can that be, unless we think church leaders are never wrong? -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 25 Aug 2003 16:29:00 -0500 > >Linda: What is your source for this interpretation? > >Jonathan Langford >Speaking as myself, not AML-List moderator I appreciate your interpretation too, and thank you. My source is fuzzy now that I think about it. If memory serves correctly.... We were performing "O My Father" in the Heart of America Mormon Choir (in the Midwest) several years back, and the choir director was going over the history of the hymn. I believe the sourcebook was the "Stories of Our Hymns" or whichever that book is which tells the histories of many hymns. I'm very sorry to throw that out without thinking. I don't own the book to look it up and back it up. Anyone? Linda Adams -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Darvell Hunt Subject: Re: [AML] ROWLING, J.K., _Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix_ ( Date: 26 Aug 2003 00:15:37 GMT I really appreciated your comments, Bill. "My name is Darvell. And I am a writer." ;) I wrote part-time for a local newspaper for pay for two years, so I have earned money for my writing, so I guess I can call myself a professional writer. But still, that title seems to be reserved for those who have a whole work dedicated to them with their name on the front cover. My fascination with writing stems from the possibility of creating something great from nothing, with just a little hard work. The words already exist, I just have to put them in the right order. I keep a 1943 Walking Liberty half in a coin pocket in my wallet to remind me of that. It's my "writing talisman." I was once metal detecting in my sister's front yard at her old house in Pleasant Grove, Utah, when I surprised myself by pulling out a 1943 silver fifty-cent piece. I had found very little silver before. The coin was in pretty good shape and had just been sitting there for possibly 50 years or more, just waiting for me to work to find it. All I had to do was find the right place and dig three inches into the soil. Something great from nothing, with just a little work. Whenever I get discouraged, I pull out my "writing talisman" and it reminds me that my "great novel" is out there somewhere--the words already exist. I just have to find the right place for each of them and string them all together. Someday, hopefully sooner than later, I'll pull my Walking Liberty half out of the literary ground and I'll clean it up and I'll know that I've got something truly great. The thought of it almost seems magical. But I'm stuck on where to look and how much work to put into it. Darvell --- "Bill Willson" wrote: >When I read this post I found myself in complete sympathy with >Darvell, and my heart went out to him. Writing is a very tough >affliction to overcome. Many very good writers give up or get lost in >the shuffle before they even have the courage to call themselves >writers. [..] >May I offer some further insight to the process of writing with the >following excerpt from my, as of yet unpublished, but copyrighted >book - >"You Just Might be a Writer"? (c) 2002 [.. deleted for space ..] >Darvel if you think you are a writer you are one. Don't let the uphill >struggle to publication discourage you, just keep on writing every >day. That is what writers do. >Bill Willson, writer ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Great Salt Lake Book Festival Date: 25 Aug 2003 18:33:31 -0600 The Great Salt Lake Book Festival 2003: "Finding Your Place" September 11th, 13th and 14th Sponsored by the Utah Humanities Council. For more info, see their=20 web site at http://www.utahhumanities.org/index.php Thursday, September 11th Broadway Centre Cinema 311 E. Broadway (300 South) Salt Lake City 7:00 - 10:00 p.m. Special Screening _Dances with Wolves_ with commentary by novelist=20 and Academy Award winning screenplay writer Michael Blake. * Tickets: $3, available by calling 801-359-9670 or at the=20 =46riends of the Library Gift Shop, Urban Room, The City Library, 211=20 East 400 South * Book signing after screening Saturday, September 13th The City Library, 210 East 400 South, Salt Lake City 9:30 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. -- Free Admission to All Events Schedule is subject to change 10:00 - 10:50 Polygamy: Three Perspectives Jeff Nichols, Judith Freeman, Dorothy Solomon Restorying History: Young Adult Fiction and Nonfiction Ann Cannon, Chris Crowe (Cannon won 2002 Utah Book Award in Fiction) Coming of Age and Coming of Death: Novels of Beginnings and Endings Doug Alder, Marilyn Arnold 11:00 - 11:50 Writing for Children Pamela Mu=F1oz Ryan _Land that Moves, Land that Stands Still_ Kent Nelson =46rom A to Zines (An Introduction to Zines) Julie Bartel, Brooke Young 12:00 - 12:50 Journeys Large and Small: How Fictional and Real Journeys Intersect Lois Lowry Poetry: Translating the Untranslatable Alexander Shurbanov _Wilderness and the Psyche: Lessons from Canyon Country_ Greg Gordon The Delicious History of the Cookbook Madelyn Garrett 1:00 - 1:50 _How We Became Human_ Joy Harjo _Hispanics in the Mormon Zion 1912-1999_ Jorg=E9 Iber _Invented Eden: The Elusive, Disputed History of the Tasaday_ Robin Hemley 2:00 - 2:50 Writing _The Holy Road_ (sequel to _Dances with Wolves_) Michael Blake _Land that Moves, Land that Stands Still_ Kent Nelson _Sum of Accidents_: A Reading by Utah's Poet Laureate Ken Brewer 3:00 - 3:50 Writing Out of Place: My Animal Life and Other Survival Tactics (2002=20 Utah Book Award in Nonfiction) Ellen Meloy _An Accidental Soldier: Memoirs of a Mestizo Vietnam Veteran_ Manny Garcia _Invented Eden: The Elusive, Disputed History of the Tasaday_ Robin Hemley Writing and Illustrating _Pel=E9 and the Rivers of Fire_ Michael Nordenstrom 4:00 - 4:50 Writing Fiction for the LDS Audience David Woolley, Jennie Hansen, Nancy Allen _Persephone Awakened_ (Poetry and Japanese Flute) Danielle Dubrasky, Gerard Yun _Summer in Yellowstone_ (with slide show) Gary Ferguson Racies Latinas -- Latin Roots (Poetry in Spanish) Elda Laura Saturday's Activities for the Whole Family Book Arts: Papermaking with Gene Valentine, Letterpress=20 Printing, Bookbinding, and Children's Book Hospital (limit 1) (all=20 day) Children's Area: Puppet Show: "The Princess and the Pea,"=20 Utah Puppet Players (11:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m., Outdoor Amphitheater) Creating with Languages -- A Bilingual Poetry Writing=20 Workshop for Children by Hector Ahumada (12:00 p.m.) Cuentos para ni=F1os Spanish Storytelling with Centro de la=20 =46amilia (2:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m.) Poetry Slam Workshop with Jean Howard, and Jag Duffy (2 p.m.) Saturday's Activities for Young Adults Julie Bartel and Brooke Young present: From A to Zines -- an=20 Introduction to Zines (11:00 a.m.) Joy Harjo Live! _How We Became Human_ (1:00 p.m.) Poetry Slam! (Poets under 21) with Jean Howard, Jag Duffy,=20 and Susie Woodward (3:00 p.m. Prizes!) Sunday, September 14th The City Library, 210 East 400 South, Salt Lake City 11:30 a.m. - 5:30 p.m. -- Free Admission to All Events Schedule is subject to change "Made in Mexico: Assembled in U.S.A." (Reading from Caramelo)=20 by Sandra Cisneros (Sunday, 4:00 p.m.; Monday, 9:45 - 10:45 a.m.) Special Sunday Feature: "Rare Book Road Show" with Ken=20 Sanders and Tony Weller (1:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m.) 12:00 - 12:50 Journeys Large and Small: How Fictional and Real Journeys Intersect Lois Lowry Collecting Rare Books Tony Weller Speculative Fiction Lee Modesitt, Ken Rand (Modesitt won 2002 Utah Book Award for=20 Speculative Fiction) _Arcady_ (2002 Utah Book Award for Poetry) Donald Revell 1:00 - 1:50 _Red Water_ (2002 Utah Book Award for Fiction) Judith Freeman The Art of Memoir Melody Graulich, Dawn Marano, Jenifer Sinor _Hispanics in the Mormon Zion 1912-1999_ Jorg=E9 Iber 2:00 - 2:50 _Summer in Yellowstone_ (with slides) Gary Ferguson _Green by Design_ Angela Dean _Predators, Prey and Other Kinfolk_ Dorothy Solomon _Why I Lie: Stories_ Michael Gills 3:00 - 3:50 Writing _The Holy Road_ (sequel to _Dances with Wolves_) Michael Blake Memoir Noir Kay Robinson, Gail McCollough, Hikmet Loe Writing Out of Place: My Animal life and Other Survival Tactics (2002=20 Utah Book Award in Nonfiction) Ellen Meloy The History of Utah Lake Robert Carter 4:00 - 4:50 "All Parts from Mexico: Assembled in U.S.A." (Reading from _Caramelo_) Sandra Cisneros All Day Sunday Don't Miss the Drawing for New Books and the Silent Auction=20 of Rare Books in the Urban Room. Proceeds Benefit the Utah Humanities=20 Council's family literacy program Motheread/Fatheread Sunday's Activities for the Whole Family Book Arts: Papermaking with Gene Valentine, Letterpress=20 Printing, Bookbinding, and Children's Book Hospital (limit 1) (all=20 day) Children's Area: Creating with Languages -- A Bilingual=20 Poetry Writing Workshop for Children by Hector Ahumada (2:00 p.m.) Slam Fest for All Ages with Jean Howard, Jag Duffy, and Susie=20 Woodward (2:00 p.m.) Marny Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] BYU NewsNet: Book of Mormon Movie Has Ups, Downs Date: 25 Aug 2003 19:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Book of Mormon movie has it all: ups and downs By Kyle Monson NewsNet Staff Writer - 12 Aug 2003 The movie follows Nephi as he leaves Jerusalem with his family, travels through the wilderness, deals with his unruly brothers and eventually reaches the Promised Land. "The Book of Mormon Movie" lived up to my expectations in every way. I assumed the cinematography would be good (it was), the musical score would be dramatic (it was) and the acting would be, well, mormon movie acting (yup, it pretty much was). The movie follows Nephi as he leaves Jerusalem with his family, travels through the wilderness, deals with his unruly brothers and eventually reaches the Promised Land. Noah Danby, who plays Nephi, certainly looks the part of the "large in stature" prophet. The film's treatment of Nephi was touching - he's shy around girls, good with kids, impatient with his not-so-sharp brothers, and both scared and excited about God's mission for him. The actors showed quite a bit of potential, especially Mark Gollaher as the brash Laman and Cragan Foulger as his sniveling younger brother Lemuel. The script didn't give them much to work with, however. Writer/producer/director Gary Rogers seemed scared of making the dialogue too "scriptury" or too modern, and so the movie ends up with dialogue that is stilted, awkward and hard to gauge. Nephi cracks a joke right before quoting 1 Nephi 3:7, for heaven's sake! It would have flowed a lot more smoothly if the movie committed to one speaking style and stuck with it. "The Book of Mormon Movie" is a good example of what happens when one man writes, directs and produces a film: there aren't enough checks and balances in the system. Certain things would have been easy to fix, and certain lines shouldn't have made it into the movie (the audience snickered more than once). The packaging for the movie, however, was great. Robert C. Bowden's movie score during the closing credits is fantastic, and the camera work was exceptional. However, the professionalism in some areas of the film was countered by amateur flaws in others. Like whose idea was it to put Lehi in a paisley robe in the Jerusalem scene? Did the ancient Jews wear paisley? Or to put gray flecks in Nephi's beard late in the movie, but not fix his makeup to make him look old? He looks 22, and putting gray in his beard just makes him look 22 and silly. Or when Lehi describes "a great and spacious building" full of people mocking and pointing fingers, and the audience sees a model of a building, but the building is empty - no people. Any of those problems would be fixable. And then there is the problem of scene flow. The transitions were jilting. For example, in one scene Nephi is tied to the mast of his ship in the middle of a raging storm, and in the very next scene Lemuel whines that they're out of water and it better rain soon. Bad flow. Still, I had to admire the effort. Kirby Heyborne, who starred in "The RM" and "The Singles Ward" ("I'm going to Idaho!"), was unrecognizable as Sam, and did a great job with his role. It was obvious the castmembers took their roles seriously, especially Danby, who isn't a member of the church. Members will appreciate the reverence and respect he shows for Nephi's story. Here's what I'm hoping for. I hope the movie makes a pile of money, so Rogers can get some real funding to work with for the next episode. I hope he gets the best screenwriter and director money can buy, and turns the series into an epic that just got off to a rough start. If Harry Potter books get a good movie deal, shouldn't the Book of Mormon? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software --0-1064425931-1061863241=:61656 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David and Dianna Graham" Subject: [AML] Re: Val Kilmer as Joseph Smith Date: 25 Aug 2003 21:47:30 -0600 I think Val is a fantastic choice for Joseph Smith. He's a star, of course, so that will help attract the audience, but he's also a terrific actor. I wish I could remember the name of an HBO film he did a million years ago about a man who had escaped from a chain gang. It was one of his first well recognized dramatic roles, though, and he was terrific. (His most recent recognition had probably been for Real Genius). (Uh oh, I feel a movie quote coming... "Is it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort of Sun-God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?...Why am I the only one who has that dream?") Anyway, he has warmth, charisma, humor, looks, and lots of passion... he's got all of the qualities I would want if I were casting the film. I look forward to seeing him in it someday. Now about Viggo, Hugh, and Orlando: they are all way too beautiful and would distract me so much if I watched the film. Having only seen Orlando in two films, I'm not sure he's got the acting chops for a role like Joseph Smith. But, he's my favorite piece of eye candy out of those three. Of course, there's reason I think that Legolas was one of the most beautiful creatures ever shown in a picture. I have a thing for tall, slender, blond men with narrow faces, high cheek bones, and piercing eyes. Anyone on the list who has seen my husband would know that. So, when a girlfriend and I were discussing Fellowship of the Rings when it had first come out, and I mentioned how darn pretty I thought Legolas was, she smiled and said, "I knew he'd be your favorite. I thought of you as soon as I saw him." All the same, Orlando is a lovely recommendation if only to give some of us yet another chance to swoon over him. :) Dianna Graham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 24 Aug 2003 23:19:12 -0600 Bill Wilson wrote: "...why not portray Mormans as being intelligent about the struggle with the nature of our humanity and alter the dialogue to make it appear more like we were comfortable with our agency rather than obsessed with appearances even if they do not conform to our own perception of reality? Maybe something like: The protagonist brings in a couple of Dr Peppers and the older agent says, "Don't tell my wife I'm swilling this stuff, she thinks I'll go to hell if I do. When we got married, I converted to Mormonism and some people in the church have extended the church's laws of health to include anything with caffeine in it. We're supposed to keep our bodies clean, but I personally only accept the ban on hot drinks like coffee and tea, along with alcohol and tobacco." and later The protagonist comes into the office and there's the Mormon guy eating McDonalds, including some more Dr Pepper. The guy says, "You're eating and drinking hellfire and damnation to your soul," And the Mormon guy responds, "The only difference between you and I is the difference in the temperature of our caffeine. Just don't tell my wife. Personally I'm more worried about avoiding the secretaries low cut neckline than what's in my soft drink." The reason you can't get away with dialogue like that, in my opinion, is it comes across as pedantic. I immediately didn't like the guy, who I don't even know as a character, because he talks too much without really saying anything of interest. Especially in a piece of theater, whether comedy or drama, that would be a deadly dialogue exchange--people just don't talk like that in real life. Or if they do, they are the type everyone tunes out because they never really come to the point--or else they beat the point to death...either way the audience falls asleep, usually groaning. Kim Madsen, who doesn't claim to be a writer of wonderful dialogue herself, but recognizes something that doesn't work -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 25 Aug 2003 23:10:30 -0600 Three weeks ago a poster appeared in the lobby of my ward building. It was a full-sized movie poster for "The Book of Mormon Movie" with a small announcement in the upper left corner that there would be a fireside featuring members of the cast and the writer/director on August 24. I didn't notice the fireside bit the first three times I saw it; it just looked like an ad for the movie. Two weeks ago I noticed the announcement for the fireside. It bugged me a bit that the focus of the poster was the movie rather than the fireside and I began to wonder what the policy was on advertising private commercial ventures in the lobby of Church buildings. I thought about asking the bishop, but he was brand new and I hate the idea of nosy people ratting out other Mormons for things that don't really matter. Still, it irritated me and I started entering the chapel on the other side, where the poster wasn't. A week ago it really started to bother me. I knew that there were at least two Book of Mormon movies coming out in the coming year, neither of which were either funded or specifically sanctioned by the Church, and I wondered if the other film would get equal time in the lobby of my ward building. I couldn't help but notice that the font used on this movie poster was the same font used on the cover of the printed Book of Mormon. Yesterday I finally asked the bishop about it. He didn't know what the policy was and said he would check on it. I asked our recently released bishop if he knew what the policy was and he said commercial ads were prohibited in the lobbies of Church buildings. Last night I went to the fireside. Admitting that I went with a chip on my shoulder, it ended up feeling much more like a publicity event than a real fireside for me. Not enough focus on a subject other than the movie for my tastes. Quotes from 1 Nephi in order to set up explanations of a how a particular scene was shot. Movie props (the gold plates and the sword of Laban), poster-sized color shots from the movie, bookmarks for the movie autographed in the chapel by cast members. I remember the late 1970s and early 1980s when there were a lot of commercially oriented firesides in the Church. I grew up in the Chicago area and was happy to listen to the BYU Sounds of Freedom concert on a Sunday evening, then buy the album at the table immediately after the show. I remember the Seventies book stores. There used to be a lot more direct merchandizing to members of the Church *at* church, or at least in the hallways between meetings. But not recently. Which is, I think, why this particular poster/ad and fireside felt so odd to me. It felt like that old-style tying of righteousness to the purchase of specific items (or records or films). Seeing The Book of Mormon Movie, then buying it on DVD will help the missionary program of the Church and spread the truth of the printed Book of Mormon. I've also come to appreciate a strict separation of church and commerce, a healthy move away from using Mormonness as a lever to push product sales within the temple walls (as it were). I prefer targeting Mormon audiences through normal advertising venues. Come talk to me about a career making LDS films and I'm with you. Bring the cast and props of a film that's scheduled for release in three weeks and talk only about that one set of experiences, and my skepticism is raised. So how *does* one sell Mormon stuff to Mormon audiences without breaching the chapel doors? Can one sell to a Mormon audience from outside? Because I'm less and less comfortable with merchandizing from inside. Perhaps Mormon culture and Mormon religion are truly inseparable. It still feels like moneychangers on the temple steps for me. Suggestions? Or am I just being too sensitive? Scott Parkin -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark Goble Subject: [AML] Humanitise and Mormon Mindset (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) Date: 25 Aug 2003 23:20:07 -0600 ___ Chris ___ | As a result, Mormons--like those in some other American | sectarian groups--are largely absent from the highest | levels of achievement in the fine arts, literature, | and the humanities in general." ___ Yet strangely over-represented in science and engineering. But I think you are right that the underlying intellectual values that belay the humanities are somewhat alien to the Mormon mindset. I'm not convinced that is a bad thing. However on some days I have a bad attitude to the humanities. I also am not convinced that "art is confused with propaganda, never with quest" really fits most modern art either. I think most modern humanities has a very specific notion of answers and preconceptions. Their questioning is typically not a questioning of *their* preconceptions but of the preconceptions of those who don't share their worldview. A lot of modern American humanities has moved towards a relativism that would have made Margaret Mead happy. And questioning for the humanities, especially since the rise of existentialism at the beginning of the 20th century, is really just the questioning of a nihilism that has lost its way. Taking a position is confused with progaganda, and questioning is confused with being lost. . . -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Markham" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 26 Aug 2003 14:10:23 -0400 Most LDS accept that General Conference talks are inspired and are equivalent to scripture. Even better than, because we don't have the messy translation problem to deal with. I think that most us on this list will readily admit that this is a part of our belief. Conference talks are the same as scripture. This leads ever-so-easily into the idea of infallibity. Even I am uncomfortable with the idea of parsing talks--this paragraph seems inspired, but not this one. So we're conditioned twice a year to be open to the familiar faces of our General Authorities delivering the Word of God from the pulpit. Easy enough to pay lip service to the notion that, well sure, they're just men and are bound to make mistakes. But when we see and hear them, they utter scripture. In modern jargon, there is a real disconnect going on here. Tony Markham -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 26 Aug 2003 13:29:35 -0600 Thanks to Matthew for this further clarifying question. For me, I think = it's very much part of the culture. The way it's presented (and I've = heard this many many times), is that any statement made by a General = Authority from the pulpit (sometimes the phrase 'in General Conference' = is added) is scripture, and is binding on us as scripture. And I doubt = a single seminary or institute lesson given anywhere doesn't end with = the notion that our duty is to 'follow the Brethren.' =20 We're supposed to follow the Brethren, obey what they tell us, listen = carefully (and prayerfully) to their counsel, and then we're supposed to = fall in line. And they will never lead the Church astray. They're = people, humans, fallible, and as prone to error as any mortal. But, = yes, I do think there's a hint of papal infallibility underlying the = discussion. That's my point: Jedediah M. Grant did in fact teach blood atonement, = while serving as an apostle. He was wrong to do so, but you'll be hard = pressed to hear anyone say it. The perfect opportunity, in fact, has = now passed us by. In critiquing the Krakauer book, it would have been = very simple for the Church to issue a statement that said "Some early = leaders of the Church, including one apostle, did teach blood atonement. = They were wrong to do so. It has never been an official doctrine of = the Church." =20 Never gonna happen. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Aitken, Neil" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 26 Aug 2003 00:13:17 -0700 I've been in many wards and encountered many members who have held similar views. However, the most insightful comment regarding the "infallibility" of church leaders came from a conversation I once had with Hartman Rector Jr. over breakfast at an LDS scout camp jamboree. He said that we should not be surprised if through the course of our lifetime we would hear new and different things taught from the pulpit than we were accustomed to hearing. "These are not contradictions," he said. "It's not that the doctrine has changed, merely that our understanding of what the Lord has revealed has been expanded." The Lord continues to reveal new things and correct our misunderstandings and misinterpretations as we seek understanding and clarification from him. I find much comfort in such a simple statement -- this leaves room for all of us, church leaders included, to be human. It reinforces the central doctrine of a living prophet and continuing revelation. It also helps us see that "contradictions" and "errors" are not necessarily signs of God's imperfection, but rather the natural consequence of working with an often imperfect knowledge. We do not have all knowledge to begin with, but must work with what we have and do our best till more is given. It is quite possible to be righteous, diligent, faithful and still possess imperfect knowledge. The broadening of Take for instance Nephi who for the longest time thought he and his family had landed on one of the isles of the sea. 2 Ne. 10: 20 20 And now, my beloved brethren, seeing that our merciful God has given us so great knowledge concerning these things, let us remember him, and lay aside our sins, and not hang down our heads, for we are not cast off; nevertheless, we have been driven out of the land of our inheritance; but we have been led to a better land, for the Lord has made the sea our path, and we are upon __an isle of the sea__. Only later, after much exploration and expansion do the Nephites figure out that they have landed on a vast continent which stretches far to the north and south. Are the scriptures and revelations Nephi received and recorded wrong or untrue? No -- just they reflect how prophets and the people work with the knowledge provided them. Further knowledge and revelation can modify and expand these views and doctrines -- whether through personal experience and exploration as in this case, or through new revelation as in the case of Alma as he sought to understand the definitions of the restoration and the resurrection while explaining them to his son. Neil Aitken Glendale, CA Vivendi Universal Games- <>: The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material of Vivendi Universal Games which is for the exclusive use of the individual designated above as the recipient. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact immediately the sender by returning e-mail and delete the material from any computer. If you are not the specified recipient, you are hereby notified that all disclosure, reproduction, distribution or action taken on the basis of this message is prohibited. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Elizabeth Walters" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 26 Aug 2003 11:37:24 -0600 I believe the coffee served at the PCC is decaf which is always puzzling to visitors, myself included. I mean if they're gonna sell coffee and tea there "for the guests" then they should sell the real McCoy. But I guess if the visitors and employees still want habit-forming drinks then there's plenty of Kava on demand. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >At 07:20 AM 8/21/03 -1000, Peter Chamberlain wrote: >>Just and interesting schizophrenia: I was at the Church-owned Polynesian >>Cultural Center a few weeks ago and at the Luau I noticed that all of >>the drinks at the soda fountain were caffeine free, yet right next to >>the soda fountain was a bank of six or seven coffee pots. Sorta funny I >>thought. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 26 Aug 2003 13:14:07 -0600 FWIW. =20 My grandmother taught at BYU for many years, and was an avid Coke = drinker. She kept it in a fridge in her office. Bottled only; of = course, she was quite the purist, was Gran. One day, someone narked on = her, and some officious official confiscated it from her fridge. So she = went home and made a bunch of labels that said "Family Home Evening Root = Beer." She pasted those on her Coke bottles, and there were never any = problems. My freshman year at the BY, I'd stop by her office. 'Have a = root beer' she'd say, winking at me, and I would. Essentially, the department where I work on campus would not be able to = function without Diet Coke. My dear friend and colleague Loraine = Edwards (who sadly just left us to finish her graduate degree in = England) was famous for her non-stop Diet Coke consumption. I'm not in = her league, but I do enjoy a can or five. =20 You can buy a Diet Coke on campus, but it's the tepid, unleaded kind. = But I love the Diet Coke thang, because it seems such a splendid = cultural marker. I mean, there really does seem to be a divide between = those who drink the stuff and those who don't. One presumes (without = evidence and probably without foundation) that non-drinkers vote the = Republican straight party ticket, that they like their doctrines = conventional and their history unchallenging, that they would never = dream of doing their home teaching the last day of the month. While we = Coke drinkers, at the very least, wear our caps at a jaunty angle. [MOD: I protest! I don't drink Diet Coke. Nor any kind of Coke. Nor much in the way of carbonated beverages at all. They burn my throat...though I did come to enjoy carbonated, unflavored mineral water while in Italy, which does more to quench thirst than any over beverage I know.] Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 26 Aug 2003 15:12:37 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > > --- Original Message --- > From: "Bill Willson" > > >Here is to good writing designed to strengthen and > uplift. > > IMO, writing designed to do this will ultimately do > neither. The ONLY goal a writer of fiction (including > Mormon fiction) should have is to tell a story about > real people. If any other purpose conciously enters > in, that original purpose will be damaged. What will > happen to the LDS writer who writes first to tell the > truth? Their writing will strengthen and uplift. > > Uplifting is a by-product of good writing, not a goal > in and of itself. > So, who said that writing designed to strengthen and uplift would not include telling the truth about real people? I'm assuming that these elements should be inherent in our writing. What I object to is writers who, in an effort to show human fallibility, make their characters seem like unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals or a cross between Homer Simpson and Archie Bunker. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Angela Hallstrom" Subject: Re: [AML] Great and Noble Ones Date: 26 Aug 2003 16:35:42 -0500 Jim Wilson wrote: =3D=3D I've been sick of the unending use of anti-heroes for about twenty=20 years now, and in my own writing the heroes (and heroines) are just=20 about always noble and great ones. I don't really care to read=20 constantly about how useless and immoral everybody is--like that's news=20 or something. There are good and great things that take place every=20 day, and noble things done that are unknown and unsung. There are more=20 than enough examples of how not to live in literature, but (at least=20 recently) a dearth of examples of how we should live. Whether or not I=20 myself was noble and great, and whether or not I will ever be so during=20 this life, I am not prevented from appreciating the great and noble=20 things done by others, and of enshrining them as much as I can in=20 literature. =3D=3D Although I understand the point that Jim is making here, for me the = problem isn't necessarily the lack of "noble and great" heroes in = literature. Very few "heroes" of the literature that has marked my life = are enshrinable, in the sense that they are overwhelmingly good or noble = or would be held in high esteem by society. The very nature of = fiction--the necessity of conflict in order to move the story forward = and create tension--makes characters who are "too good" very difficult = to write without distancing the character from the reader, in my = experience. To me, what often makes a fictional character fail, is a character who = is acted upon instead of acting. Now if Jim intended his definition of = heroic to mean "one who acts," then I am all for it. I would agree that = too often in modern fiction, we find protagonists as victims, wallowers, = or simply as exemplifiers of bad traits. For instance, I just got back = from vacation and bought "Le Divorce" to read on the beach. Merchant = Ivory had done a movie (which I haven't seen), and I noticed that the = book itself had been nominated for a National Book Award, so I figured = it would at least be a pretty good read. I don't have the time to go = into everything that I felt was wrong with the book, but = characterization was one of its biggest problems. The characters didn't = DO anything. They didn't CHANGE. (Well, unless you count learning about = French cheese and changing the way you dress). They started the book = whiny and boring and pretentious, and ended it that way, in my opinion, = all while events and circumstances swirled around them to which they = *re*acted. I didn't care about these people. It's not that I needed to = be inspired by them, or morally guided by them, or taught by them. But = I--actually, all readers--need three things, I think: To be = interested/invested in a character, to be moved by their plight or the = "conflict" into which the fictional world has plunged us, and to track = how that character is changed by the conflict. =20 Although the characters in "Le Divorce" were pretentious and shallow, I = was willing to embrace them and follow them through the story initially = because of the hope for change. This doesn't mean I needed them to see = the light and become saintly, only that I wanted them to be different, = somehow, by the end of the book. Sometimes, in great fiction, the = protagonist is devastated by the end of the book instead of enlightened, = and this can be just as powerful as books about great triumph. =20 The problem as I see it for fiction writers, and for Mormon writers in = particular, is when a person chooses a main character who is "heroic" or = "inspirational" to begin with, where can the story go? Are readers = really interested in seeing this person get *better* than great? Or, on = the other hand, if we set our hero up to fall, doesn't the character = become more pitiable than inspirational? (Which is a problem, mainly, = if you set out to write an "inspirational" book.) If you write a book = about a great person beset by challenges, the challenges can be = interesting, of course, but unless you allow the character him or = herself some failings or faults or questions or turmoil, I still don't = find the story nearly as interesting. Like I've heard writers and readers say over and over again: put = people, real people, in real situations; get them going; watch them = change. That, to me, is the recipe for good characters and good = fiction. Angela Hallstrom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 26 Aug 2003 22:04:44 -0600 Bill Willson wrote: > >If humans are not perfect, and GA's are humans, then it stands to reason >that Ga's are not perfect, but they are more perfect than any of the rest of >us, > "More" perfect? Is that like "almost" pregnant. Someone is either perfect, or they are not. GAs are no more or less perfect than any other mortal who walks the earth. I do agree with you, though, in that there are problems if we hold them to the extreme of either spectrum. Thom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] (SL Trib) Snider firing Date: 26 Aug 2003 22:39:21 -0700 Is it my imagination, or are the ones who should be the real focus of ethics violations-The owners/managers of The Pleasant Grove Theater being glossed over in all of this? I thought they had some chutzpah expressing such rightieous indignation at being ratted out on what seems a clear breach of theater etiquette and integrity in not inquiring about whether or not they could drop lines and words of profantiy from the script without clearance from the holder of rights to the play in the first place. Looks like they felt justified in what they did. This episode sums up certain problems in Mormon culture that make us look like flakes to the general public-That is: avoid using profanity at all costs so as not to offend the community or The Lord. But in the process do something that lacks integrity and looks dishonest. And then get ticked off at being found out and reported on about it. Sheesh. Haven't they heard anything about "weightier matters"? Hopefully there won't be any negative repurcussions for other theaters in Utah. And if Eric Snider wasn't the original tipster, but the one who was, also worked for The Herald, why wasn't he canned too? Seems they were looking for an excuse to get rid of Eric Snider and unfortunately, he gave them an opportunity to do so. Happy Valley's loss, imho. To be fair, ours is not the only community who has ethics contradictions like this. For a time, at least one federal prison had so many Orthodox Jews incarcerated for white collar crimes that they had their own kosher kitchen at the prison. Rip the government and taxpayers off for millions of dollars in bogus scholarship money, but I'll be damned if I eat a ham sandwich. Ah, the irony. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 26 Aug 2003 23:36:16 -0600 Linda, could this be the source you are thinking of? In _Our Latter-Day Hymns_ by Karen Lynn Davidson she quotes Bruce R. McConkie, "Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. This glorious truth of celestial parentage, including specifically both a Father and a Mother, is heralded forth by song in one of the greatest of Latter-day Saint hymns, O My Father by Eliza R. Snow." (This McConkie quote is from _Mormon Doctrine_, 2d ed. pp. 516-17.) Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 27 Aug 2003 08:07:19 -0400 Why should we feel that the GAs are more perfect than any of the rest of us? Somewhere in Paul, that I don't have time to look up anytime in the near future, he talks about leaders, or members for that matter, being called from among the weak and foolish lest the people (and we) be lead to idolize the leaders rather than God. Why should we not think that the GAs are basically like us. They have received an assignment to testify of Christ through out the world, and I assume they have been given experiences that allow them to do so. And they have been given keys and authority. But I know a quite a few people who have incredible experiences--private experiences, and who are quietly living remarkably righteous lives, just in a less public arena. We just don't hear their stories. [Tracie Laulusa] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mary Aagard Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 07:24:47 -0700 (PDT) This sounds an awful lot like the BYU Devotional that was held for "The Other Side of Heaven" before the film was released. I was a film major at the time and I couldn't believe that BYU organized one of it's precious Tuesday devotional times for an hour long promo of the film. Sure, they did have John Groberg there talking about his mission but all of his experiences were illustrated by clips from the film. The director also spoke and he didn't talk exclusively about the film but the general feeling I got from the devotional was that if we were going to see a movie made by Mormons, we better go and see this one. I know that BYU isn't the same as a church house, but the devotional seemed like such a shameless way to sell a product. At the beginning of that school year, Pres. Bateman asked all students and staff to try to attend the devotional each week, how much it would influence our education, and then to spend one of those devotionals on a tralier for a film. It was really bizarre. If it had been a movie made by BYU or by BYU students or related to BYU events or campus in any way, that would be different. But you don't see the BYU admin giving the red carpet treatment to every LDS film that's made and so it seemed biased. Yes, a GA was involved, but the movie was clearly a commercial film. Mary Aagard __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 09:28:19 -0600 Scott Parkin's post on the BOM movie fireside draws attention to a really serious issue. Darius and I do firesides quite often and have a personal policy of NEVER mentioning out books during a fireside. Sometimes the introduction will mention them, but we separate our book signings from our firesides with as much integrity as possible. We talk about black pioneers and present ourselves more as guardians/sharers of their stories than as authors making the publicity rounds. Of course, if a question comes up about where the fireside attendees can get more information on black pioneers, we briefly refer to our books, but otherwise, we are insistent on never bringing the marketplace into the Church. We have even had to request that some stake presidents modify their plans when we realize that our books are being advertised. Darius says simply, "My tokens are not for sale." Now, I wouldn't mind hearing Bryce Chamberlain talk about Lehi--but I would go to the fireside not as a movie fan but as someone interested in what his insights into Lehi might be. I predict that if these firesides continue, people will be bringing their little posters of the BOM movie for the "stars" to autograph. Bad, bad idea. In fact, it's not far from priestcraft. Reminds me of something a friend told me recently--that when he last attended the Provo Temple, he was given a temple schedule. On the back of the schedule (given INSIDE the temple) were the words "Compliments of Deseret Book Company." Well, if what matters to me matters to Deseret Book, may I suggest that such subtle advertising is entirely inappropriate beyond the temple doors? My response to what my friend told me was, "That sounds like something the Savior would take out a whip for." ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: [AML] re: Perceptions of Errors among Leaders Date: 27 Aug 2003 09:52:12 -0600 Melanie says: However, it is important to keep in mind the "social times" of the statements. Many years ago, blacks (and other races) were slaves and it was an acceptable social practice. Thus, when the church was first organized, racial inequality was a social belief that many people, including some general authorities, still held. God could not expect the embryo church members and leaders to suddenly live the adult law all at once. They needed to go through a gradual, growing, process. My response: Though Darius's and my books use this particular reasoning as our vehicle for helping our readers deal with the atrocious things said by past Church leaders regarding race, I personally have a problem with it. I see in Joseph Smith's writings a huge leap from the early years of the Church to the last years of his life. Michael Quinn labeled Joseph as "radical" in his anti-racist leanings. The things Joseph said were-especially given the social context-remarkable. He suggested that there are many black men who "outshine" those they wait upon. He was an abolitionist. He said that if someone were to bring 100 slaves into Nauvoo, he'd recommend that that person "educate them and set them free". Oh, just read _One More River to Cross_--it's all in there. And how do we explain the heroism and sacrifice of the Quakers at the same time Mormons were accepting slavery? Consider that in 1850 (the year the Fugitive Slave Act passed), Utah became a slave-holding territory. At the very same time, we have the most amazing displays of heroism among the Quakers as they risked their all to help fugitive slaves find freedom. Somehow, they understood the "higher law of equality" way back then-and it wasn't just some of them but a majority. And somehow, we Mormons missed it-despite everything Joseph Smith had said. Did God give more truth to the Quakers than to Mormons? (Rhetorical question, by the way-no answer required.) Or were Quakers not in such an embryonic spiritual state as Mormons? I'm sorry, but even though I'm willing to follow Gene England's lead and say that we were living a "lesser law" back in 1850 because we weren't ready for the "higher law", I can't buy the reasoning wholesale. Not when I know about Levi Coffin or other remarkable Quakers who, with the Harriet Tubmans and Sojourner Truths and Frederick Douglasses, served as God's instruments to liberate the captives. Something is not quite right with that picture. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:56:58 +0300 I've been looking for a reference for an anecdote about heavenly mothers that someone told me Joseph Smith had said. Here is what my friend said: Joseph Smith was once lying on the ground looking up into heaven when he said to a friend beside him: "Do you know what I see? I see a father, a mother, and a son." Apparently later church leaders edited out mother and replaced it with Holy Spirit. Does anybody have a reference for this anecdote? If so, it would be helpful to me. Thanks, Tom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 27 Aug 2003 10:58:27 -0500 I think there are several dimensions of the question Matthew raises. My goal here, by the way, isn't so much to present my own position as to try to (partly) summarize what several other people have said on this matter, and analyze where I think the perception comes from and what it means, when some people say that "we don't believe Church leaders make mistakes." First, as several people have mentioned, I think there *is* a general acknowledgment that leaders of the Church may, and often do, make mistakes in their personal lives. After all, we know that General Authorities have even been excommunicated. I think that there is a general sense among many Church members (one that I have often heard expressed in Sacrament Meeting talks and the like) that they are "further along the way" than most of us, in terms of their personal righteousness. And I had a religion professor at BYU who denied that a prophet (meaning a sitting president of the Church) could ever "fall" and be removed from office--this, despite the reference in the Doctrine and Covenants (which I pointed out in class) to Joseph Smith being told that if he fell, he would have power only to appoint a successor... But I think the issue of personal righteousness or not among Church leaders is not one that is really all that troubling to most members, and I don't think it's what people are complaining about on AML-List. There's often not a lot of comfort level in talking about the transgressions of leaders in a public sphere, but I think that has more to do with feeling that a leader's transgressions (or anyone else's) are between that person and his/her ecclesiastical leaders--and the Lord, of course. Not our business. The more troublesome area, I think, is the degree to which church leaders may make mistakes either in teaching the doctrine, or in carrying out their other duties of office. Here, I think, there is again a general, abstract acknowledgment that they may make mistakes (with mistakes seen as less likely the higher up the ecclesiastical ladder you go), but very little willingness to identify (or speculate about) any specific mistakes, except in cases like Bruce R. McConkie's statement that blacks wouldn't receive the priesthood before the Millennium (I think I'm stating that one right) where revelation has clearly and directly superseded what went before. Even then, there tends to be a general discomfort with pointing out or discussing such examples. If you mention, for example, that Joseph Fielding Smith (supposedly; I haven't seen the reference myself) said that men would never walk on the moon, people are likely to respond with an uneasy chuckle. Mostly, you tend to get the feeling that they feel it would have been better off if you hadn't mentioned the matter. Not that they deny that it happened, but the sense is that talking about times when General Authorities have been wrong could undermine what is supposed to be the basic message, which is that we are to follow the counsel of leaders. Part of the problem arises when people like Joseph Fielding Smith who had strong opinions on various issues such as evolution, and publicly stated them, are quoted as if their comments were authoritative--which from my experience happens all the time in places like gospel doctrine classes. You can always come back and cite the fact that other General Authorities have held different views, but it gets frustrating, and may even be seen as disruptive and inappropriate. It's often an unwelcome surprise to the teacher or speaker, who thought that he or she was making a noncontroversial comment--stating something that everyone present would agree with. Part of the problem is that the general rhetorical pattern of quoting General Authorities as authoritative sources is so deeply engrained within Mormon practice. We do it all the time: in lesson manuals, in Sacrament Meeting talks, even in General Conference talks. We're encouraged to do it. And so the underlying message appears to be that anything you can find to quote from a General Authority must be authoritative. The assumption is that if it wasn't safe, the General Authority wouldn't have said it, or it wouldn't be accessible. This is strengthened by the point Eric Samuelsen pointed out, which is that general Church practice (on the part of the General Authorities and the curriculum writers) appears to be never to explicitly acknowledge or identify errors that have been previously taught by General Authorities. Personally, I don't think this arises out of a desire to deny that it happens, but rather a sense that we would be better off moving forward, talking about what the doctrines are rather than what they aren't. But the effect, I think, is that many Church members don't realize that just because they find a General Authority statement on the matter, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily correct. This is particularly the case since there's no formal, widely known "index of controversial teachings." In fact, there's often a lack of clarity about what is and what isn't official Church doctrine (see, for example, the recent discussion on the list about the notion of a Mother in Heaven). It would seem to be safe to quote a General Authority in support of an established doctrine. The problem, though, is: How do you know it's an established doctrine? The answer, for many people, is: If a General Authority is willing to teach it in public. Which gets us into a kind of circular position, particularly since the Church *doesn't* generally go to the bother of refuting past teachings in any kind of formal way. (What happens instead is that General Authorities stop talking about it and it quietly stops showing up in the lesson manuals, and instead statements are included in talks and such which reflect a subtly different slant, if you know what they're talking about.) So far, I've been talking about General Authorities talking about doctrine. The situation, I think, is similar in talking about other kinds of counsel as well. The consistent message is that we're supposed to follow the counsel of our leaders. There's generally an acknowledgment that that counsel may be wrong, but little willingness to discuss when or how it may be wrong. I don't think I've ever heard a church talk, on any level, about when we *shouldn't* follow the counsel of a leader. I've even heard people say that if we follow the counsel of a leader, and it's wrong, it will be accounted to us for righteousness. Which I'm willing to accept, to a certain degree (e.g., I'll try to home teach the people on my route, whether or not I think my elder's quorum president was inspired in making the assignment)--but surely there are limits to this that most people would acknowledge: e.g., if a bishop should tell someone to help with embezzling money, or told a sister that she was to marry him in secret as a plural wife. Most members, I think, would agree that if something kooky like this happens, we should be in the Stake President's office, and if necessary on the phone to the Church Office Building. But it's not (so far as I can recall) ever *formally* discussed. Instead, we get stories like the General Authority saying "If-I-told-you-to-drive-off-this-cliff-what-would-you-do?" and Joseph Smith's test of Heber and Vilate Kimball where the message seems to be, "Do whatever a leader tells you to do," with no qualifications, together with the general principle (which I have seen explicitly taught in manuals, recently, and in General Conference talks from apostles) that it's not the business of church members to sit in judgment of their leaders. Which can be interpreted as meaning that it's not our job ever to decide whether their counsel is right or wrong, but simply to follow it. Personally, I should add, I think this is only one possible interpretation. I think there are other interpretations as well. In actual practice, I think that most members aren't really all that sheeplike in following their leaders. What I think is frustrating for many on AML-List is the kind of scenario I mentioned earlier, where a particular position or opinion or practice (e.g., evolution is wrong; blacks were denied the priesthood because of lack of valiance in the preexistence; members shouldn't drink caffeinated beverages) is presented as if it were an established position of the Church, with the support being a quote from a General Authority (past or present) or an interpretation or remembrance of what a General Authority said. Sometimes, you can argue that the quote was misunderstood or taken out of context. Sometimes, though, you may simply want to say, "I disagree. I think that Elder __ was wrong when he said that." Your reasons may be that you know that other General Authorities have disagreed on this issue, or it's inconsistent with your understanding of the scriptures, or goes against your own experience, or whatever--but whatever those reasons are, you are, in fact, arguing that the General Authority was wrong, in a specific instance. But I don't think that would go over very well. I think a statement like that *would* be taken by some other members as being on the high road to apostasy--the same members who might acknowledge, in principle, that a leader might be wrong. There's a vast difference between saying that something happens, and then taking it upon yourself to identify when it has happened. The problem is, if you're the one in that situation, it doesn't do you any good to make a general acknowledgment that sometimes leaders can be wrong. Your problem is with evolution, or blacks and the priesthood, or caffeinated beverages, or whatever. You want the class to know that you're an active, believing latter-day-saint, but that your opinion is different from the one that's been expressed. The problem is, because of the way it's been presented, you can't get to that issue without in some way calling a General Authority wrong on that particular issue. And that's where, in my view, a lot of Church members are uncomfortable, particularly if they disagree with your position to begin with. I think that the statement "Too often, Church members don't believe that our leaders can be wrong" most often is shorthand for something like this. What do the rest of you think? Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not AML-List jlangfor@pressenter.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 09:20:34 -0500 --- Original Message --- >Two weeks ago I noticed the announcement for the fireside. It bugged me a bit >that the focus of the poster was the movie rather than the fireside and I began >to wonder what the policy was on advertising private commercial ventures in the >lobby of Church buildings. The policy is it shouldn't be done. [snip] > >Yesterday I finally asked the bishop about it. He didn't know what the policy >was and said he would check on it. I asked our recently released bishop if he >knew what the policy was and he said commercial ads were prohibited in the >lobbies of Church buildings. There you go. Believe me, we checked this out when we were doing plays in the Center Stree Theatre. > [snip] > >Suggestions? Or am I just being too sensitive? You are not being too sensitive. What really makes me mad, however, is that we scrupulously avoided having any appearance of offical church sanction and lasted half a first season. These BofM guys will probably rake in the dough by skirting official church policy. Who ever said life was fair? -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jeffress@xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 27 Aug 2003 12:36:03 -0600 Quoting Bill Willson : > So, who said that writing designed to strengthen and uplift would not > include telling the truth about real people? I'm assuming that these > elements should be inherent in our writing. What I object to is writers > who, in an effort to show human fallibility, make their characters seem > like unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals or a cross between Homer Simpson > and Archie Bunker. Well, I never said real characters and spiritually uplifing stories were mutually exclusive, but in practice it seems authors have an awfully hard time pulling it off. I have read a lot of LDS fiction and hundreds of unpublished manuscripts. I think that it takes a lot of really hard work to write a good novel. I think it takes a heck of a lot more hard work to work in premeditated designs "to strengthen and uplift." I think Nicholas Sparks, a non-LDS writer, does about the best current work with premeditated upliftng stories. He writes clean, unobtrusive prose with uplifting messages. He has a huge following . . . and I can't stand his novels. I feel manipulated the entire time. I don't feel like his novels progress along the natural lines of character development. I often feel that at one point or another, his characters have to make an uncharacteristic decision or action to bring about the manufactured circumstances. I find it very easy to drop into Sparks's prose, but I almost always get jolted out at several points saying, "Hey, wait! That character would never have done that." I think LDS authors have an even harder time trying to produce good novels. They have to balance good writing along with the trial of "not offending." Trying to include an uplifitng message along with that whole package creates a hurculean task that I don't think any but the most talented could accomplish. LDS authors also have another huge problem. Any solution that requires the conversion of one of the characters or a spiritual revelation ultimately relies on a deus ex machina ending. Doctrinally, this makes perfect sense. We cannot save ourselvs, but must rely on the saving power of Jesus Christ. But long experience with the novel format has led us to expect the main character to overcome the seemingly unsurmountable problem at the end on his or her own power. Having a revelation from the Holy Ghost that turns the character around, although doctrinally sound, produces unsatisfying fiction. I agree that we don't need to jump to the extreme of "unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals" to demonstrate human fallibility. But in discussing good fiction, I think jumping to the opposite extreme does not prove the point. An extreme, either too good or too bad, will fail to feel real and doesn't create any sympathy in the reader. For me, I find the greatest satisfaction in the ordinary character thrust into extraordinary circumstances, and overcomes using his or her flawed but reasonable human abilities. I would have to say that the world contains a whole lot more Archie Bunkers than Gordon B. Hinkleys, so in creating a landscape for a novel, it makes more sense to populate the novel with a representative proportion of the population. But in either case, extremes generally don't work as well as just characters made of regular people. Sure, on occasion we can have fun watching the super-good Flash Gordon defeat the super-evil Emperor Ming, but the fiction that touches our soul involves regular people that face the same struggles that we also face. -- Terry Jeffress -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:21:03 -0600 Boy, I'm replying to way more posts than usual, but since this one is a family issue and I gave the closing prayer at that devotional, I feel I'd better address it. The showing of portions of _The Other Side of Heaven_ at the BYU devotional was at the request of Merrill Bateman, who believed that the every BYU student should see it. John Groberg was very nervous about it. Nonetheless, it happened. It probably was a bad precedent to set, so I just want the blame cast in the appropriate direction. ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Midays Swiss Days 2003 Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:26:11 -0700 (PDT) Once again, it's that time to invite everybody who can to come to Midway Swiss Days this weekend. It's in Midway, Utah and there will be lots of good food, music, and fun. I'm the large guy with the beard in the bass section of this Swiss Chorus. Come up and say hello. Details are at http://www.midwayswissdays.com/index.html ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] (SL Trib) Snider firing Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:40:51 -0500 Kathy (in a post I otherwise agree with pretty wholeheartedly) wrote: >And if Eric Snider wasn't the original tipster, but the one who was, also >worked for The Herald, why wasn't he canned too? Seems they were >looking for an excuse to get rid of Eric Snider and unfortunately, he gave >them an opportunity to do so. Happy Valley's loss, imho. Eric has already clarified that neither he nor the other Herald employee was the "original" tipster, so far as can be told from the information we have available. However, I'd like to address another issue here, which is the underlying journalistic ethics issue at question, which I'm not sure is well understood in this discussion. I'm by no means an expert on journalistic ethics. However, as I understand it, the basic principle at stake here is that (a) as a journalist you should *never* be part of the story you're reporting, and (b) if there's even any possibility that you could be seen as being part of the story, you disclose all the relevant facts. A matter of conflict of interest. In other words, the central point isn't that Eric or this other employee made the tip to begin with. It is, rather, that Eric, having made the tip, then went on to write about the issue--and did it without disclosing his own role in the matter, even to his own supervisors at the Herald. I remember once listening to an interview with TV journalist Daniel Schorr where he said that the most professionally embarrassing moment of his life was when he was reporting live on the discovery of the Nixon White House "enemies list" and his own name showed up on the list, as he was talking to the camera. As soon as possible, he finished his report and got off the air. Presumably, someone else then took the story from there--because he had suddenly *become part of the story*. I don't know whether the Herald's actions were appropriate for Eric's offense. I don't know what their motivations were. But I think it's important that we recognize that the underlying principle they were acting on is a real and important one. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not AML-List jlangfor@pressenter.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julie Kirk Subject: [AML] Street Painting in Italy Date: 28 Aug 2003 10:26:08 -0700 Okay, it's a brag...I can't help it! I was able to finally go the the Grazie di curtatone street painting festival in Italy, which is recognized as kind of the mother ship of street painting festivals, the oldest in existence. I have been trying to get to this festival for years and one thing after another has prevented me from the trip, but due to the generosity of a friend who presented me with enough frequent flyer miles for a ticket, I made it this year. This festival is split into three catagories, Semplici, Qualificato and Maestre. In order to move up in the ranks, you have to win first place in the Semplici catagory. Well, competing against about 100 other artists, I did just that my very first time. This means that next year I will compete at the Qualifacato level the winner of which will be bumped up to Maestre. It was pretty exciting, and kind of like a mini olympics where you stand on a podium and get a medal and everything - just no flags ;o) Anyhow, I wanted to share the good news because I'm very excited and a few people on the list have been activily helping me out in another thing related to this, my search for a good contact in Italy to fulfill requirements in my fulbright proposal to study there for a year. At this same festival I was also able to nail down one contact, so only one more to go! I guess that's it, I'm just very happy and feeling very blessed right now. this festival happened on the heels of my father passing away very suddenly a few weeks ago, so it was a welcome bit of happiness in a very unhappy summer. In October I've been asked to paint in a festival in Istanbul also - who would have ever thought there would be a street painting festival in Istanbul. Julie! www.juliekirk.com www.streetpainting.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:48:56 -0500 That could be the right book, but I was thinking of a story giving the history of how she came to write it, and that Joseph Smith gave his approval of the verses. Something like that? At any rate it's one of my most favorite hymns. Linda At 12:36 AM 8/27/03, you wrote: >Linda, could this be the source you are thinking of? >In _Our Latter-Day Hymns_ by Karen Lynn Davidson she quotes Bruce R. >McConkie, "Implicit in the Christian verity that all men are the spirit >children of an Eternal Father is the usually unspoken truth that they are >also the offspring of an Eternal Mother. This glorious truth of celestial >parentage, including specifically both a Father and a Mother, is heralded >forth by song in one of the greatest of Latter-day Saint hymns, O My Father >by Eliza R. Snow." (This McConkie quote is from _Mormon Doctrine_, 2d ed. >pp. 516-17.) > >Nan McCulloch > > >-- >AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "webmaster" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report 22 Aug. 03 Date: 26 Aug 2003 23:42:52 -0500 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of August 22, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 2 S.W.A.T. 10,581,327 3,204 17 LDS character 87,847,065 14 Le Divorce 1,368,317 422 17 Matthew Modine (actor) 3,558,534 38 2 Fast 2 Furious 169,835 215 80 Paul Walker (lead actor) 126,522,515 56 Wrong Turn 25,854 45 87 Eliza Dushku (lead actor) 15,352,334 62 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 19,340 8 927 Scott Swofford (producer) 15,156,060 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 76 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 8,748 4 1200 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,507,852 83 Cremaster 3 4,650 2 122 Mathew Barney 428,447 (writer/producer/director/actor) 84 China: The Panda Adventure 4,626 3 759 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,337,652 97 Galapagos 1,419 2 1396 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 14,052,807 99 The R.M. 1,260 3 206 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 1,057,022 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. LDSFILM.COM TO ADD A MOVIE LISTINGS FEATURE - Coming soon, LDSfilm.com will maintain a page listing theaters and showtimes for LDS Cinema films as well as smaller, independent films with Latter-day Saint filmmakers in above-the-line roles. To make certain that listings of theaters and showtimes are included and up-to-date, we ask filmmakers to e-mail ldsfilm@baggaleymusic.com on a weekly basis with a list of theaters (including phone numbers - to double-check showtimes - and addresses) and projected showtimes for the upcoming weekend. Please spread the word about this new feature to anyone you know who would be interested in using this resource to find out which LDS-related films are playing in their area. JOHNNY LINGO-MGM CONNECTION - MGM, one of the BIG STUDIOS, will distribute "The Legend of Johnny Lingo," a new motion picture produced by Latter-day Saint producers Jerry Molen and John Garbett and directed by Latter-day Saint film editor Steve Ramirez. Here's a related website showing the movie poster, as well as MGM's distribution of it: http://www.moviemission.com/rsvp/default.asp A full-page ad appeared in the Daily Universe (BYU newspaper) for the movie, and included MGM's logo. JOHNNY LINGO REVIEW ON MERIDIAN - Film composer and LDSFilm.com webmaster has written a movie review of "The Legend of Johnny Lingo." Read it in Meridian Magazine: http://wwwmeridianmagazine.com/arts/030822lingo.html MORE ON JOHNNY LINGO DIRECTOR STEVEN RAMIREZ - Steven Ramirez is best known for editing "The Other Side of Heaven." Ramirez also has one credit as the sole screenwriter of a critically acclaimed direct-to-video movie, "The Killers." The cover for "The Killers" can be seen here: http://www.ldsfilm.com/pm/Killers.jpg BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE RATED PG-13 - According to newly added information on the official website for Gary Rogers' upcoming feature film "Book of Mormon, Volume 1: The Journey," the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) has rated the movie PG-13. According to the movie's website, the rating is probably due to a particularly intense scene in which Nephi and Laban are involved in, as Anakin Skywalker once put it, "aggressive negotiations." The movie's official website is adamant that the movie has no vulgar or profane language, nudity, or sex. Rogers says on his website that future volumes in the series will likely be PG-13 because of the violence inherent in the stories, but that he states that he will never release one with an R-rating. THE WORK AND THE STORY PREMIERE DATES, TIMES AND LOCATIONS - "The Work and the Story," an LDS-themed mockumentary about LDS Cinema stars Richard Dutcher and Kirby "Omnipresent" Heyborne, with writer/director Nathan Smith Jones in the lead role. Plus Jennifer Hoskins, Dave Boud, and Dan Merkley - any one of which could make a fine governor some day. If you go to the official website you can see maps to the locations, and even photos of the venues. See: http://www.theworkandthestory.com KANAB FESTIVAL HONORS TOWN'S HOLLYWOOD HERITAGE - Kanab, Utah, a.k.a. "Little Hollywood" a.k.a. "Hollywood East" a.k.a. "Hollywood With Morals" See http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Aug/08252003/utah/86807.asp CARMEN SINGS - Deseret News, detailed article about the Delta Center concert starring Latter-day Saint singing sensation Carmen Rasmusen: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510049393,00.html SMART TV MOVIE SLATED FOR FALL - See http://wwwsltrib.com/2003/Aug/08222003/utah/utah.asp DESERET NEWS LETTER SAYS NEIL SIMON AND HOLLYWOOD SCREENWRITERS ARE MORALLY BANKRUPT - See http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510048362,00.html * * * * * * * * * NEW VUISSA SHORT HEADING FOR ACADEMY AWARD CONSIDERATION - Austrian Latter-day Saint filmmaker Christian Vuissa is the founder of the LDS Film Festival and the recipient of only the second AML Award for Film ever granted, for his ground-breaking LDS-themed short film "Roots & Wings." Vuissa is currently working on the LDS Cinema feature film "Eat, Drink and Get Married." But his latest short film, "Unfolding," is currently appearing across the country in prestigious film festivals. "Unfolding" is/was an official selection at the following festivals (to date): - daVinci Film Festival 2003, Corvallis, Oregon, July 18-20, 2003 - Rhode Island International Film Festival 2003, August 5-10, 2003 - Atlantic City Film Festival 2003, August 9-16, 2003 - Temecula Valley International Film Festival 2003, September 10-14, 2003 - Palm Springs Int'l Festival of Film Shorts 2003, September 16-22, 2003 - Damah Spiritual Film Festival 2003, Seattle, October 23-25, 2003 - "Unfolding" won the award for Best College Drama at the 15th daVinci Film Festival 2003. Note that both the Rhode Island and the Palm Springs Festival have been chosen by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences as qualifying festivals for the Short Films category for the Annual Academy Awards. With more than 1200 film festivals worldwide, only 47 have this recognition. Does this mean that "Unfolding" will be in contention for Academy Award consideration? Yes, it does. It does not mean that it WILL be nominated, but it has a shot. "Unfolding" is currently on sale only at LDS Video Store (http://www.ldsvideostore.com). * * * * * * * * * A MORMON IN "NORTHFORK"? - "Northfork" is a new feature film currently in theatrical release. The movie stars non-LDS Utah native James Woods in the lead role. Co-stars include Mark Polish, Nick Nolte, Daryl Hannah and Anthony Edwards. The movie depicts a group of government agents trying to persuade residents of a rural area of Montana to move away before the area is flooded. One resident is a devoutly religious taxidermist, "Mr. Stalling", played by veteran character actor Marshall Bell. He and his two wives (named Mrs. Stalling #1 and Mrs. Stalling #2 in the credits) have built a home in the shape of an ark and tell Woods' character that they plan to float when the waters come. A few movie reviewers refer to the three characters (Stalling and his 2 wives) as "Mormons," or "Mormon polygamists," but nearly all other reviewers simply refer to them as "polygamists" (perhaps a nod to Church preferences?), or they simply call Mr. Stalling a man with two wives. I haven't seen the movie, so I have no way of knowing if the characters are intended to be Mormonesque polygamists, or if the Stallings are intended to be general Protestant polygamists. * * * * * * * * * WRITER DAVID CORBETT PRAISES REALISM OF LDS CHARACTER IN "S.W.A.T." - [EXCERPTS:] A former private investigator and one-time probate lawyer, Corbett now makes his living writing crime novels. Good ones. His first, The Devil's Redhead (2002) won instant acclaim for its wit and stunning emotional style. His latest, Done for a Dime, is even better. It's a fast-paced yarn about a murdered bluesman, a bummed-out cop and a horn-playing prime-suspect with Daddy issues, told with plausible plotting, richly imagined characters, a few nice surprises and some extremely believable dialogue. All of which are elements entirely lacking from S.W.A.T. "Nobody speaks in dialogue in this movie," Corbett says. "They all talk in slogans. The only cop who looked and talked like a real police officer was the potbellied Mormon guy in the gun cage, constantly sneaking fast food and soda pop, begging the guys not to tell his wife. That's your average cop. Everybody else in the movie was a cartoon. I was actually embarrassed for Samuel Jackson." "Maybe this movie should have been titled C.L.I.C.H.E," I remark. "Or just plain B.A.D.," Corbett replies. "The characters were so far off the mark. Cops are fascinating people, real cops are. They are really interesting, with great human stories to tell, but in this movie nobody ever did or said anything that made them really interesting. Except the fast food guy." .... Note that the full article contains some R-rated language, not excerpted here. Source: interview/article by David Templeton: http://www.metroactive.com/papers/cruz/08.20.03/talk-pix-0334.html * * * * * * * * * NEWSLETTER FROM HALESTORM ENTERTAINMENT [the following section is taken directly from HaleStorm's mailing to subscribers]: The R.M. will finally open in California on Friday, September 5th. These limited engagements are for one to two weeks only, so make sure you see it opening weekend, or you might miss your chance. Here's a list of the cities where it will be playing: Northern California SAN JOSE CONCORD LA/Orange/San Bernardino County NORTH HOLLYWOOD PASADENA LONG BEACH BREA FULLERTON GARDEN GROVE IRVINE NEWPORT BEACH ONTARIO SIMI VALLEY Southern California SAN MARCOS SAN DIEGO Theaters are being added almost daily! Check your local theater listings for locations and showtimes or go to www.rmthemovie.com/theaters.php for updated theater information. NEW HALESTORM WEB SITE - Go to http://www.halestormentertainment.com and see the newly redesigned site, featuring links to The Singles Ward, The R.M., and the upcoming The Home Teachers and The Best Two Years! CHECK OUT THESE OTHER FILMS! There's a bunch of new LDS-themed films coming to theaters this fall! Go to www.ldsfilm.com to find out the latest on The Book of Mormon Movie, The Work and the Story, Day of Defense and The Legend of Johnny Lingo! TOO LATE FOR BAGGALEY - I am personally relieved to see that "The R.M." is finally being released in California. Having made what now looks like a foolish prediction that "The R.M." would be passing "The Singles Ward" in gross box office by next week, only to see "The R.M." pass through some surprisingly difficult weeks - encountering difficulty in finding available venues in Arizona and posting record low numbers - I am hoping to see those numbers climb with the addition of California audiences. It will be too late for my prediction to come true by the time the film enters California, but anyone who has an interest in the success of LDS Cinema has got to hope that "The R.M." does succeed in passing "The Singles Ward" - and soon. Last we heard, the DVD/video release was scheduled for the end of September. * * * * * * * * * "DAY OF DEFENSE" TO BE DISTRIBUTED BY L.A.-BASED VIKING MEDIA - "Day of Defense" will be distributed by Los Angeles-based Viking Media. "Day of Defense" premieres in Salt Lake City on October 10, 2003. As far as we know this will be the first movie that Viking Media has ever distributed. This LDS-themed feature film will be only the second LDS Cinema movie to be distributed by an out-of-state firm. The previous time this was attempted was with "Out of Step," whose original release is largely considered the low-point in LDS Cinema distribution history, even though the movie itself is one of the best in the genre. "Out of Step" remains the lowest-grossing LDS Cinema film. If "Day of Defense" tanks at the box office, it may sour local filmmakers on the idea of distributing their LDS Cinema fare with little known out-of-state distributors. They may prefer to stick with more experienced in-state companies such as Excel Entertainment and HaleStorm Entertainment / HaleStone Distribution, distribute the movie themselves (which is what Kels Goodman did with "Handcart," although he doesn't recommend that route), or hope to be picked up by a bigger-name national distributor (which is what Ryan Little hopes will happen with "Saints and Soldiers"). Gary Rogers' Book of Mormon movie is being distributed by "Mormon Movies," a company the filmmakers organized specifically for this purpose, using a novel internet advance ticket sales technique. If their distribution is wildly successful, filmmakers may be taking to Rogers et al about helping them sell seats to their own movies. Note that all of the above does not take into account "Suddenly Unexpected," which was made in Houston and isn't really being distributed by anybody, except the filmmakers, who screened it in one commercial theater in Houston. Hopefully "Day of Defense" will do well in theaters. It is easily the most courageous and interesting LDS Cinema movie made yet, with regards to its thematic content. Most LDS Cinema films have stayed far away from controversial material, and even the much-discussed (and excellent) "Brigham City" really just re-worked the safest movie genre known to man - the thriller/murder mystery. The move contained many, many issues worth talking about, issues about which people disagree. But the core thematic element: a serial killer, is 100% non-controversial. Over 99.9% are against serial killers. "Day of Defense," on the other hand, is centered on controversial issues. Not issues that were controversial 100 years ago or 20 years ago, or last year, but legal, moral, political and ethical issues which are topical right now, issues which are unsettled, issues about which reasonable people find themselves on opposite sides. The topic does not only divide mainstream people from extremists. Roughly half of viewers will not even judge "Day of Defense" on its merits as a film, but based on the degree to which they agree or disagree with how it handles controversial issues. Fortunately, the film's protagonists -- both admirable men -- find themselves on opposite sides of the movie's core issues, which underscores the fact that the film tells a story, it doesn't just preach a sermon with a single viewpoint. Still, many viewers are likely to read into the film what they bring to it. * * * * * * * * * MELLEN STARS IN "THE QUIET" - Kymberly Mellen is a Chicago-based actress. She and her husband, filmmaker Vance Mellen ("Screatures") are active Latter-day Saints and graduates of Brigham Young University. Kymberly Mellen is the star of a new film "The Quiet," premiering this weekend. Be sure to check it out! >From Vance and Kym Mellen, Mellenhead Productions at http://www.mellenheadprods.com and Legacy Videos at http://www.legacy-videos.com: Hi Everyone, THE QUIET is a film I play the lead in, that is having it's Premier this Saturday, 8pm at the Gene Siskel Film Center. You might recognize a lot of other Chicago actors. Please come if you can!!! See you there... -Kym You are cordially invited to attend the Sneak Preview of the THE QUIET directed by Tom Silva at the Gene Siskel Film Center located at 164 North State St. on Saturday, August 23 at 8:00 p.m. THE QUIET 2003, Tom Silva, USA, 119 min. With Jeremy Sklar, Kymberly Mellen The Gene Siskel Film Center describes "The Quiet": Made entirely in Chicago, THE QUIET charts the creeping deterioration of the marriage of two affluent young professionals, Ted (Sklar) and Christy (Mellen). A north side town house filled with trendy lifestyle accessories provides an attractive front for a relationship that has long since taken a disturbing turn behind the scenes. Christy's passivity extends to ignoring the obvious signs of Ted's affair, while his deep-seated hostility is manifest in Christy's mysterious bruises. Actors Sklar and Mellen, both veterans of the Chicago theater scene, shine in roles that demand nuanced non-verbal communication. Producer/cinematographer Michael Wright and members of the cast will be present for audience discussion. Jeremy Sklar ("Ted") is an actor, director and drama coach based in Los Angeles, CA. A graduate of USC, he has appeared in a host of theater productions in Los Angeles and Chicago, including Cat on a Hot Tin Roof,Private Eyes, Lion in the Winter and Six Degrees of Separation. He has also directed and acted in numerous independent films, includingGravity, Out of the Blue and Coasting. Kymberly Mellen ("Christy") has appeared in numerous stage productions in Chicago and around the country. Most recently, she played Cleo, Singer in Rocket to the Moon at Writers' Theatre in Glencoe, IL. Other recent Chicago credits include Helena in Short Shakespeare: A Midsummers Night's Dream, Romeo and Juliet, and Two Gentlemen of Verona at Chicago Shakespeare Theatre, My Fair Lady with Court Theatre, Whale Music (Constellation Players), and multiple roles in The American Girl Revue. She holds a degree from The Theatre School at DePaul University and BYU. How to attend? Tickets to films are $8 ($4 for Film Center members), $3 for student, faculty, and staff of the School of the Art Institute and staff of the Art Institute. For more information, call 312-846-2600 (general information) or 312-846-2800 (Hotline).Tickets are available at the Gene Siskel Film Center Box Office (opens 1 hour before the first show of the day).Tickets may also be purchased by calling Ticketmaster at 312-575-8000 or by visiting ticketmaster.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:33:17 -0500 >What I object to is writers who, >in an effort to show human fallibility, make their characters seem like >unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals or a cross between Homer Simpson and >Archie Bunker. Many of us walking this planet are a cross between Homer Simpson and Archie Bunker, and many of us are Mormons. We like seeing ourselves on the screen. Frankly, when a lot of these hero types show up, we can't recognize them. (For instance, I associated a lot easier with Han Solo than I did with Luke Skywalker.) I think the world of art is large enough for both, or several types, of heroes. -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 27 Aug 2003 10:44:54 -0700 Eric, I must protest your portrayal of those of us who don't drink Diet Coke. Never touch the stuff. Not because of a purist attitude against caffeinated beverages, but 'cause I don't like most artificially sweetened sodas. Usually leaves an awful aftertaste in my mouth, yeecchh! My drug of choice tends to Dr. Pepper or Vanilla Coke. Without intending to, I've become the mom my daughter's YM compatriots look to to bring a case of the forbidden brew to their sleepover activities. Nothing like studying the scriptures and discussing gospel truths while slugging down a vanilla coke. No odd looks from her advisor, either. I don't vote a straight republican ticket, although I know plenty of democrats that ALWAYS vote their party no matter if it's a yellow dog running for office. Probably punching the card with one hand while holding a Diet Coke in the other. :) Everyone gets a kick out of all my hats, be they my felt cowboy/scout hat, or one of my berets, (especially the Salt Lake Olympic one), worn at a jaunty angle. Alas, I often don't get my Visiting Teaching done before the month is nearly gone, and that I'm not proud of-I do take that seriously and ought to be more diligent on my errand from the Lord. And my sisters love it when I wear my hats at a jaunty angle when I come to see them. :) Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Uplifting Writing (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:55:43 -0500 It has been my experience that a writer whose FIRST thought is not offend or to strengthen and uplift will invariably fail to do either. With that paradigm driving their writing, writers will invariably find themselves saying things like, "I [can't] show Joseph drinking wine on the afternoon of his martrydom. It will offend my mother." Thus, imo, losing an opportnity to give us insight into Joseph Smith that, prophet though he was, he was also human enough to find comfort in the fruit of the vine at a very trying time of his life. That truth (that Joseph knocked back a couple in jail) can be just as uplifitng (if not more so) than tyring to show that he was above such things. An artist driven first by character may or may not include that scene, but his/her reasons will be, imo, a lot clearer than one who decides not to write the scene because of what the Bishop might think. It's also been my experience that, no matter how hard an LDS writer tries, they can't hide their Mormonness too long. It'll show up in theme, style, or some other way. There is no reason to force the issue. Just sit back, concentrate on character, and let the Mormonness come on its own. -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Date: 27 Aug 2003 14:37:26 -0400 For what it's worth: in my BYU "Teachings of the Living Prophets" class, we were taught that only the First Presidency's and The Quorum of the Twelve's messages were to be regarded as scripture. The rest of the addresses were not. Which is not to say that any address by a "general" General Authority could be lightly disregarded; it just did not carry the same level of authority (almost viewed as suggested guidelines-to-live-by, but not definitely not scripture). C.S. Bezas Parenting the Adolescent http://www.bellaonline.com/site/adolescence BellaOnline.com Drama How-to's for Homeschoolers http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/homeschoolers_drama Suite101.com A Christian Lifestyle http://www.bellaonline.com/site/lds BellaOnline.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Derek1966@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Deseret News: Hatch Friend Buys His CD's Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:54:28 EDT In a message dated 8/26/03 09:40:06 PM, rrasband@yahoo.com writes: << deseretnews.com Deseret News, Friday, August 22, 2003 Hatch friend buys his CDs Developer says purchase of 1,200 discs not political By Lee Davidson Deseret Morning News WASHINGTON - As he was seeking political favors, a friend of Sen. Orrin Hatch bought a whopping 1,200 copies of Hatch's largely self-produced music CDs, for which Hatch receives $3 to $7 each. Hatch, R-Utah, and his friend, Monzer Hourani, a Houston developer who twice before has landed Hatch into major ethics controversies, say he wasn't trying to buy political help with those CDs and they merely share a love of his music. But the story, first reported by the Wall Street Journal, is attracting national attention because, of course, ethics rules ban lobbyists from paying money directly to senators. Also, the situation is reminiscent of a scandal that forced former House Speaker Jim Wright, D-Texas, to resign. In it, labor unions and other interest groups bought in bulk copies of a book that Wright wrote giving him extra royalties. The House Ethics Committee accused him of using that purchase to evade outside earnings limits. >> I'm not out to paint Hatch has a saint by any means, but Lee's article is a shoddy bit of journalism. He never contacted the only person who could verify this information (me), just quoted the Wall Street Journal which, in spite of 5-6 conversations I had with them, were unable themselves to get the story straight. I suspect they started with a theory and set out to do everything they could to prove it, when in fact it has no merit. The CDs which Hourani bought were at a discount price, and Hatch received NO royalties from the sales to Hourani. In fact, on CDs sold at that price to Hourani or to Hatch's Campaign itself, Hatch had to forfeit any royalties, but still pays half of production costs. On CDs which are sold at normal rate, yes, Hatch can receive anywhere from $3 to $7, depending on the sale price--but those are CDs which HE OWNS in joint partnership and has paid half of all production costs. And all monies received by him are reported annually on 1099 forms and part of his public tax record. John Perry Provo -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:16:29 -0600 I've been looking for a reference for an anecdote about heavenly mothers that someone told me Joseph Smith had said. Here is what my friend said: Joseph Smith was once lying on the ground looking up into heaven when he said to a friend beside him: "Do you know what I see? I see a father, a mother, and a son." Apparently later church leaders edited out mother and replaced it with Holy Spirit. Does anybody have a reference for this anecdote? If so, it would be helpful to me. Thanks, Tom No reference on that one, but I do know that Joseph Smith comforted Zina Diantha Huntington (later Smith and then Young) when her mother died. He told her that she would see her own mother and her Heavenly mother in the next life. Hope I'm not repeating anything already said. I used the quote in _One More River to Cross_, which will contain the source in the endnotes. I don't have the book with me at present. And I'm not even going to touch the implications of what later Church leaders might have edited out, but you might want to look at Janice Allred's writings. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:15:47 -0700 We had a similar situation here in San Diego when an LDS musical group came to town to give a concert. Local wards refused to publicize the event; it flopped. It was sad. ---------------- Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com (or, if there's a bounce) jeffneedle@tns.net -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] This List Date: 27 Aug 2003 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) --- JanaRiess@aol.com wrote: > Hello friends, > > I just wanted to take a moment and tell you all how much I have come to > love > this list. This afternoon I laughed long and heartily at Chris's story > about > listening to Metallica while editing the Conference talks; then the very > next > message was Margaret Young's beautiful post about the death of her > friend's > husband, and how they are coping. It brought me to tears. I don't > always have > time to read the posts, and rarely have time to contribute much, but > this list > has been a great blessing for me, and I just wanted you to know. It > makes me > more optimistic about Mormon literature and about Mormonism in general. > > I also greatly enjoyed meeting many of you last week in Salt Lake and > Provo. > Thanks for making me feel so welcome. > We think you're pretty great, too. I couldn't get to your Sunstone presentation on Buffy The Vampire Slayer and the gospel, but have ordered a tape. (Let's see BYU put something like *that* on for Education Week.) ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "gtaggart" Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 14:43:38 -0600 Margaret wrote,=20 "Boy, I'm replying to way more posts than usual, but since this one is a family issue and I gave the closing prayer at that devotional, I feel I'd better address it. The showing of portions of _The Other Side of Heaven_ at the BYU devotional was at the request of Merrill Bateman, who believed that the every BYU student should see it. John Groberg was very nervous about it. Nonetheless, it happened. It probably was a bad precedent to set, so I just want the blame cast in the appropriate direction." First, I enjoy your posts Margaret, so keep 'em coming. Second, I = watched the Groeberg devotional on TV. Like most everyone on this list, the description of the Book of Mormon fireside offends my sensibilities. = And I'm hoping that next time I go to the Provo Temple, I don't see = "sponsored by Deseret Book" on a marquee. However, I don't remember being offended = by the Groeberg devotional; in fact, I was touched by the producer's short = talk and testimony (sorry, but his name escapes me). All in all, however, = I'd prefer my advertising/promotion straight up. Don't "lock" me in a = chapel or LaVelle Edwards' Stadium and bombard me with ads, books, films, etc. As a student at BYU many years ago, I attended a married student ward in = the Deseret Industries building. I remember walking into sacrament meeting = and the guy in charge of programs handed me one. He just happened to be a Beneficial Life agent, and lookey here, at the bottom, he'd printed the slogan, "Is Your Life Beneficial?" with his name and phone number. = Don't think it happened more than once. Compare that with the BYU ward I = serve in. Our stake president has asked us to counsel students to hand us = their tithing envelopes outside of our MARB classroom/chapel. Greg Taggart -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Ordination of Elijah Abel Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:13:36 -0600 At 01:59 PM 8/23/03 +0000, you wrote: >Apparently, there are a number of people wondering about the veracity of >the claim that Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel to the priesthood. A gay friend of mine says that Joseph Smith also presided over a marriage between two men. Anybody know anything about that claim? He gave me no documentation. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lisa Tait" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 16:14:05 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- It still feels like moneychangers on the > temple steps for me. > > Suggestions? Or am I just being too sensitive? > I for one agree. I was extremely uncomfortable when flyers for "The Other Side of Heaven" showed up in the foyers of our church building (in suburban Houston) and then it was mentioned over the pulpit in the vein of "of course you're all going to go see this wonderful new church movie." I'm holding my breath to see what happens on the Book of Mormon movie. I'm reminded of the marketing blitz we endure every summer from earnest young BYU students, sent down here to pay their way through college by selling Living Scriptures stuff. 'Hi Sister Tait, I got your name from so and so, and look, here's a list of all your fellow ward and stake members who have been customers and who else can you tell me about that might be interested?" They seem to be careful not to ask for ward directories or anything that blatantly inappropriate, but I find the whole marketing pitch extremely offensive and I make it clear that I am not interested from the beginning. But then they still want referrals to other ward members. And they're such nice kids, and it's so darn hot here in Houston and how can you not at least invite them in for some water and visit with them a little? I hate it. It was especially bad this summer. And I feel sorry for them because I can't imagine they're making that much money, at least not in our area that has already been so thoroughly and repeatedly canvassed. Whatever the product or situation, I just don't see any appropriate way to use the church as a marketing avenue. And yet there is a hunger and an audience out here, especially away from Utah, for arts, entertainment etc. that is aimed at an LDS audience. I don't know how it ought to be navigated, but it seems that it would pretty much have to be an all or nothing approach--everything gets publicized, or nothing does. And right now the official position seems to be all nothing, but the actual practice is anything but. Which means that we'll have flyers for The Other Side of Heaven posted on our bulletin boards, but nobody will hear anything about Brigham City, and that's not fair. Lisa Tait -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] More Bookbinding Adventures Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:15:36 -0600 At 11:29 PM 8/22/03 -0600, you wrote: >I've soured on Yes glue because it doesn't seem to dry hard enough and >sometimes separates. Based on advice from Paris Anderson and Michael >Collings, I went to Aleene's Tacky Glue, a PVA glue, and have been happy >with the results. I think Elmers would probably work as well. Elmers used >to be like wood glue, and I think Elmer's School Glue may still be, but >Elmer's all purpose glue I'm pretty sure is a PVA glue now. This is based >on classroom chemistry experiments my wife Robin has done with the >different glues--she's convinced the two kinds of Elmer's are different >and that the all-purpose glue is a PVA. I recently consulted with a librarian in book repair concerning an 1834 book I own that needs its cover reattached. She recommended the Tacky Glue, but not Elmer's. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] (SL Trib) Snider firing Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:30:05 -0600 Kathy Tyner: > >And if Eric Snider wasn't the original tipster, but the one who was, also >worked for The Herald, why wasn't he canned too? Seems they were >looking for an excuse to get rid of Eric Snider and unfortunately, he gave >them an opportunity to do so. Happy Valley's loss, imho. To clarify, I knew of the other Herald employee's (my friend's) communication with Samuel French; it was my understanding they knew about it before EITHER of us contacted them. Their later assertion that they were acting on information from Neil Simon's lawyer solidified that, for neither the other employee nor I had talked to Neil Simon's lawyer; if they were acting on information from him, he had gotten it from someone other than us. He wasn't fired, by the way, because he didn't write the subsequent news story about it. Also, he's new, just learning the ropes, etc. It wouldn't have been fair to fire him. (Well, it wasn't fair to fire me, either, but it would have been even less fair for him.) Eric D. Snider -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:35:33 -0600 At 12:45 PM 8/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have heard the postulation that >anything a General Authority or Leader of the Church says over the >pulpit or in the Ensign is basically infallible or should be considered >doctrine. Probably the strongest thing that drew me to the Church was that the missionaries said, "Don't believe this because we say so. Pray about it and you'll get an answer." I've also been taught to listen prayerfully to the conference talks. There have been many, many times when I have felt the Spirit witness to me the truth of something I was hearing. There has also been at least one time when I leaped to my feet in outrage and said, "That is not right!" (The feminists on the list will be able to identify the talk to which I refer.) Something has to feel right to me for me to accept it. It must be verified by the Spirit, or at least not feel dark. Polygamy feels dark. The prohibition against blacks holding the priesthood felt dark when I investigated the Church, but when I prayed about it I was told that it would be made right. All this brings up something I've been thinking about in terms of fiction writing in the LDS venue--just how much of spirituality is right brain activity and how much left brain? I come to more aha's through intuition than through logic. (Don't say it, Thom.) barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Fears (was: Perceptions of Error among Leaders) Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:23:06 -0600 At 09:48 AM 8/23/03 -0600, you wrote: >. I think most people >operate at least partially on a basis of fear. I think most people operate almost entirely on the basis of fear. That's why we constantly sabotage ourselves. We're pretty much unconscious about our real selves because we're too involved with the layers of defense we've built up to protect ourselves from whatever we're afraid of. I was thinking just yesterday about this concept relates to fiction writing. How many characters create conflicts because they are responding to all that programming they've done on themselves over the years? Characters, like real people, operate according to these built-up defenses: "Don't trust anybody." "Men want only one thing." "Women are users." "Don't let anyone know how you really feel." "Don't look too smart." "Don't rock the boat." "If you drink that Coke or wear that blue shirt to church, someone might think you're unrighteous." "We're all going to die!!!!" barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: [AML] Fiddler on the Roof Performance Date: 27 Aug 2003 16:05:34 -0600 AML members have no doubt noticed a gaggle of Fiddler on the Roof = performances in the area and some have been posted on the list. Having = seen several of the shows, I can unashamedly recommend yet another = version for your enjoyment by the Draper Arts Council. Richard Alsop = (former Pres. of Bonneville Communications, idea man who started the = Home Front Series and former mayor of Draper) is playing Tevye. What a = voice this man has and the acting ability to go with it. "Not every = woman in the world is a Yente," but I am blessed to play her for a = season. What a joy. We open Sept. 11,12,13,15,19,20. Additional dates = may be added. Held at Draper City Hall Auditorium (12441 South 900 = East). Showtime 7:30. Tickets available at Draper Albertsons or = contact me at 801/523-0412. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 27 Aug 2003 16:14:59 -0600 I have read this thread with interest, both agreeing and disagreeing with several posts--sometimes both within a single post. I have yet to find a discussion of just HOW we're supposed to know when we are hearing the word of God. I know how I answer the question for myself, but I'm putting it out anyway. For the record, I don't believe our leaders are infallible. Far from it. But there have been plenty of times in Church history when members have had to go on nothing but faith in following the prophet--and God. And there have to be occasions where the prophet actually speaks as a prophet (I feel silly even writing such a statement. Shouldn't that be obvious?) If something as dramatic as the Manifesto were given today, how many of us would think, "Hmm. Not inspired this time," and move on? Annette Lyon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jana" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 15:32:28 -0700 I've been recently called as my Stake's "Media Liason", which is an arm of the Stake Public Relations Dept. At a PR meeting last night each ward PR Rep was handed copies of the BOM movie posters for their foyers and were encouraged to have ward FHE outings to attend the movie so we could boost its attendance in So. Cal and keep it in the theaters longer. I already don't want to watch it--Instead I'll spend my movie dollars (few as they may be) at the 'art house' near UCI to watch a probably not PG-rated foreign film. --Jana Remy, UC Irvine -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: [AML] Types of Heroes (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) Date: 27 Aug 2003 17:00:35 -0600 [MOD: Sorry I didn't rename this portion of the thread several messages ago.] ----- Original Message ----- > Quoting Bill Willson : >>What I object to is writers who, in an effort to show >>human fallibility, make their characters seem > > like unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals or a cross >>between Homer Simpson and Archie Bunker. > > I would have to say that the world contains a whole lot more Archie Bunkers > than Gordon B. Hinkleys, so in creating a landscape for a novel, it makes > more sense to populate the novel with a representative proportion of the > population. But in either case, extremes generally don't work as well as > just characters made of regular people. Exactly! I agree 100%. Just regular people dealing with all the regular problems of regular realistic life, trying to figure it out and survive. Maybe we need a deus ex machina ending in a Greek tragedy, but I think in our modern literary work we need more tenacity, sweat, faith and raw courage. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Clark Goble Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 27 Aug 2003 17:48:01 -0600 ___ Tom ___ | I've been looking for a reference for an anecdote about | heavenly mothers that someone told me Joseph Smith had | said. Here is what my friend said: Joseph Smith was | once lying on the ground looking up into heaven when he | said to a friend beside him: "Do you know what I see? I | see a father, a mother, and a son." Apparently later | church leaders edited out mother and replaced it with | Holy Spirit. ___ Sounds like a corruption of the account of seeing Adam and Eve on a throne. The heavens gradually opened and they saw a golden throne, on a circular foundation, something like a lighthouse, and on the throne were two aged personages, having white hair, and clothed in white garments. They were the two most beautiful and perfect specimens of mankind he ever saw. Joseph said, "They are our first parents," Adam and Eve That was a late recollection by Zebedee Coltrin. (11 October 1883, Salt Lake School of the Prophets Minute Book) However for various reasons I'm not sure I trust Coltrin's recollections. Especially not that late when it would have been heavily colored by later events. (i.e. Adam/God) -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jamie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Date: 27 Aug 2003 20:26:31 -0400 >From: Barbara Hume Sean is a >cross-genre actor--fantasy in LOTR, adventure fiction in the Richard Sharpe >movies, villainy in that Harrison Ford movie, and sex object in Lady >Chatterly, which for some reason is considered great literature. There's my >connection! I don't know who he could play in a Mormon movie. If he were in >the bishopric and on the stand every Sunday, I'll bet there would be great >attendance among a certain segment of sisters. > >barbara hume > And here's me thinking I'm the only one who'd take Boromir over Leggy (and Sean over Orlando)! I think Sean Bean would be a good Martin Harris. Martin Harris is very Boromir-ish guy, I think. He had a Precious he was chasing after, but in the end he was a Good Guy. But maybe that's type-casting, and I don't like type-casting, so let's make him Hyrum Smith instead. As for Joseph...what about Robert Sean Leonard? He's not bad looking. He was a bit whiny as Claudio in Much Ado About Nothing, but Claudio is a whiny-butt anyway. I came in late, so why are we talking about this? Just hypothetical fun? ~Jamie Laulusa, back from a summer sojourn _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:27:06 -0600 Sorry to spoil your exercise in type-casting, but I hate the taste of Diet Coke preferring just regular Coke w/caffeine. I am also a Republican, who craves challenging history and searches out unconventional as well as conventional doctrine. I do my teaching whenever I get around to it and always wear my hats at a jaunty angle. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 27 Aug 2003 21:07:40 -0600 Sorry, but I've just got to tell this story, My cousin, twenty years ago, was in Hawaii and found that several students at BYUH were justifying their consumption of coffee by saying that they serve it at the PCC. This didn't strike her as right or just and with some encouragement from others, she started a petition to have coffee banned from the PCC. Nobody could tell her a good reason they served it there. Finally, a visiting apostle was eager to explain it to her in a private interview (the PCC was not designed as a church visitors center but a place for the college kids from the islands to earn some school money), and tell her in no uncertain terms to drop the issue or face disciplinary action. But thanks for the report Ronn. I guess now the island students understand not to drink caffenated soda pop but coffee is okay. That's just the opposite message I get here in Utah. Alan Mitchell ----- Original Message ----- > At 07:20 AM 8/21/03 -1000, Peter Chamberlain wrote: > >Just and interesting schizophrenia: I was at the Church-owned Polynesian > >Cultural Center a few weeks ago and at the Luau I noticed that all of > >the drinks at the soda fountain were caffeine free, yet right next to > >the soda fountain was a bank of six or seven coffee pots. Sorta funny I > >thought. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 27 Aug 2003 21:11:44 -0600 Boy, you think the BofM fireside was close to the edge, what about BYU football. I dunno, guess I've been out of the loop too long, sounds to me like straight out of the Sugar Beet. Chris--is Tad Walch one of your writers? ---- BYU double-header Oct. 4 Conference topped by a game; MWC sweep seen By Tad Walch Deseret Morning News PROVO - Brigham Young University fans who are members of the LDS Church have a lot to look forward to on Oct. 4 - six hours of general conference topped off by a football game. BYU officials told the Mountain West Conference this year that they wouldn't agree to a game on the weekend of the church's annual October conference unless it was scheduled after the priesthood session, the final meeting of the day. San Diego State agreed to host the game at 7 p.m. Pacific Time, just as the two-hour meeting ends. Athletic director Val Hale failed to persuade his counterpart at San Diego State to move the game to 7:30 to give BYU fans time to get to the stadium. Hale is delighted, however, that the decision presents a unique opportunity for Cougar fans elsewhere in the nation because the church's satellite system now will broadcast the priesthood session followed immediately by the game. "So stick around," Hale said. "It's a double-header made in heaven - priesthood meeting followed by BYU football." Hale had a triple-header of his own on Thursday as he rolled out the red carpet for BYU sports fans attending Education Week. He gave a morning lecture on the state of BYU sports followed in the afternoon by a personal tour of the nearly completed indoor practice facility. In the evening, he introduced the visitors to the football team at the annual watermelon bust at LaVell Edwards Stadium. Hale said the state of BYU athletics is good - he believes Cougar teams have the potential to sweep every conference championship this year - but still faces financial hurdles. "We're having a hard time funding what we have," he said when asked if the school might soon reinstate men's gymnastics or wrestling, which were cut two years ago. "We're challenged to break even." Of course, that explains the addition of 1,500 premium "club" seats - which cost $1,000 each - on the east side of the stadium this year. "If we sell every seat, it would add $1.5 million to the athletic department," he said. "We need that money to operate." Hale expressed frustration that some fans think the athletic department will make money on the new food and concessions policy. For the first time, BYU won't allow fans to bring food and drinks into games. He said security concerns prompted the change, which was recommended by an independent university committee for all events at the stadium, including the Stadium of Fire on the 4th of July. Hale agreed to the change, he said, on the condition concessions were upgraded, and the university responded by adding food from nine local restaurants. While prices are somewhat higher than at restaurants, Hale said they are more reasonable than at most college football stadiums. The additional income mostly covers overhead and does little to recoup the cost of adding and improving concessions stands. "At these prices, it will take a long time before we ever make back that million dollars," Hale said. He also covered parking - Cougar Club members now have guaranteed spots in the stalls closest to the stadium - and the dispute over access to the Bowl Championship Series for football, saying a playoff system would be ideal. He said the football game at New Mexico would be a key to the team's season because the Lobos are picked to finish second and because BYU's other MWC road games are against teams expected to finish sixth, seventh and eighth in the eight-team conference. It's also the first game between the schools since BYU hired defensive coordinator Bronco Mendenhall away from New Mexico. Hale's Education Week guests appreciated the service, but one annual visitor from Apple Valley, Calif., longed for the days when LaVell Edwards was coaching because he opened football practices to the public. "They can charge us $50 if they want to, but let us into practice," Thomas Womeldorf said. "Now we can't even look through the fence." Womeldorf said he was impressed by Hale's hospitality anyway, including the joke Hale cracked at the end of his morning presentation. It was the kind of playful jab that athletic directors take at rivals when they speak to booster groups. One fan asked Hale if there was a hotline he could call if he found a great high school football player BYU should recruit. "Yes," Hale said. "It's 1-800-BEAT-UTAH." -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Mormon Killer in Best Picture Oscar Winner Date: 27 Aug 2003 22:33:46 -0500 "Chicago," released in 2002, won the Academy Award for Best Picture. This movie features a blatantly anti-Mormon reference which trades on old and inaccurate religious and ethnic stereotypes. Nevertheless, Latter-day Saints who have enjoyed watching "Chicago" have generally not found the reference offensive, merely amusing. Most of the film takes place in prison, where the two main female characters are incarcerated on "Murderess Row." One of the women in the cell next to them is Annie (played by actress Denise Faye), who is incarcerated for murdering the "Mormon" man she had been living with. From her description of events, the man could not actually have been a practicing Latter-day Saint. For one thing, he is described as practicing polygamy in a time 50 years after the end of the practice by the Church. Yet from the film's perspective (certainly from Annie's perspective), the man was a typical Mormon. Tony Award-winning dancer Scott Wise is briefly seen in the movie in a flashback as Annie's "Mormon" boyfriend, "Ezekial Young." [Interestingly enough, actress Denise Faye had a small part in the movie "Donnie Brasco," in which one of the main characters is a Mormon FBI chief, and Scott Wise was a performer in the TV musical special "Fosse" (2001), a salute Broadway choreographer Bob Fosse, who was a long-time collaborator with famed Mormon dancer Buzz Miller.] In "Chicago," during the musical number "Cell Block Tango," Annie describes the murder she committed: [QUOTE] I met Ezekiel Young from Salt Lake city about two years ago and he told me he was single and we hit it off right away. So, we started living together. He'd go to work, he'd come home, I'd mix him a drink, We'd have dinner. Well, it was like heaven in two and a half rooms. And then I found out, "Single" he told me? Single, my ass. Not only was he married ...oh, no, he had six wives. One of those Mormons, you know. So that night, when he came home, I mixed him his drink as usual. You know, some guys just can't hold their arsenic. [END QUOTE] This is undeniably an anti-Mormon reference, just as much as a line about a "Typical Jew!" or "One of those Negros!" would be considered anti-Semitic or racist. It also presents a genuinely inaccurate view of Mormons, practicing or otherwise, and is drawn not from the real-world experience of the musical's writers, but from 19th Century anti-Mormon writing. Having said that, this reference has little bearing on the movie as a whole, and should not be a factor in judging the film's merits. "Chicago" is almost entirely about characters who exhibit strong negative characteristics, characters who can be described as entertainingly amoral at best. So an anti-Mormon reference made by a confessed murderess is hardly scandalous. (Would it be preferable if an adulterous incarcerated killer praised Mormons?) I would in no way wish for Chicago to be changed, or for this reference to be omitted. (It is part of what is really a rather catchy tune.) I will simply point out that for the sake of balance, director Rob Marshall owes us a rousing big-screen version of "Saturday's Warrior," with T.C. Christensen as cinematographer and Elizabeth Hansen as screenwriter. Preston Hunter -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Humanities and Mormon Mindset Date: 27 Aug 2003 21:40:48 -0600 Thank you Clark for calling them out on that. Mormons confuse Art with propaganda, not quest? Makes me wonder--do they identify the Spirit as Art or Propaganda? See, some of us have the spirit as the motivating force behind our art--or at least the search for truth. We see truth and right living as coexisting, unlike many in the world. All I can think of to say is that many present-day artists confuse Art with flatulance and history will judge them as totally absent from the even the lowest levels of achievement in art, literature, and blah blah blah. Alan Mitchell -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: [AML] Community Theatre and the "F" Word Date: 28 Aug 2003 00:56:11 -0400 Orson Scott Card takes on Neil Simon: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-08-10-1.html Eric D. Dixon -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AML Subject: [AML] _Irreantum_ Issue on Romance Date: 28 Aug 2003 09:34:03 -0700 Irreantum, the printed literary quarterly of the nonprofit Association for Mormon Letters, is featuring Mormon romance fiction in its new issue. Here is a listing of this issue's contents, followed by ordering information. (Please forward this message to anyone else who might be interested.) EDITORIAL Romance: Embracing the Label, Annette Lyon ESSAYS Don't Call My Book a Bodice-Ripper! Or, The Value of Romance Fiction, Barbara R. Hume In Defense of a Little Romance, Valerie Holladay Sign of the Times in LDS Romance, Josi S. Kilpack INTERVIEWS Anita Stansfield Madeline Baker NOVEL EXCERPTS A Gilded World, Anita Stansfield Wolf Shadow, Madeline Baker Where I Belong, Rachel Nunes Where Fate May Lead, Michele Holms What the Doctor Ordered, Sierra St. James STORY Arm's Length, Shirley Bahlmann In addition, this issue also includes the following: ESSAYS Love Stories--That Is, a Love of Story, Bruce W. Jorgensen Seeking Straunge Strondes: The Pilgrimage of Marden J. Clark, Harlow S. Clark MEMOIR Mirrors in Stone, Nancy Hoole Taylor POETRY Marden J. Clark, Bessie Soderborg Clark, P. G. Karamensines, Kris Bluth, and Dixie Partridge REVIEWS Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, Jon Krakauer The Last Mile of the Way, Margaret Blair Young and Darius Aiden Gray The Last Promise, Richard Paul Evans Silent Notes Taken: Personal Essays by Mormon New Yorkers House of James, Lewis B. Horne To Love Again, Anita Stansfield Following the Wrong God Home: Footloose in an American Dream, Clive Scott Chisholm Surrounded by Strangers, Josi S. Kilpack Seventh Seal, A Novel of the Last Days, Jessica and Richard D. Draper ORDERING INFO To receive of copy of this issue, send a check for $6 to AML, PO Box 51364, Provo, UT 84605 and be sure to specify the romance issue. For a four-issue subscription, send $16 and state that you want to start with the romance issue. Or use one of the following PayPal links: Copy of the romance issue, $6 http://aml.c.tclk.net/maaboyTaaZ8wMbatlYAb/ 4-issue subscription beginning with the romance issue, $16: http://aml.c.tclk.net/maaboyTaaZ8wNbatlYAb/ For more information about Irreantum, visit Irreantum.org. ==================================================================== Update your profile here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp Unsubscribe here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp.u Delivered by Topica Email Publisher, http://www.email-publisher.com/ -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] More Bookbinding Adventures Date: 29 Aug 2003 09:40:53 -0600 > I recently consulted with a librarian in book repair concerning an 1834 > book I own that needs its cover reattached. She recommended the Tacky Glue, > but not Elmer's. > > barbara hume > DON"T DO THAT!!!! Never, never, never! How else can I say no? 1834 is an antique. If you work on antiques everything you do has to be reversible. PVA is not reversible. That means when your repair wears out the damage to your antique will be significant and unholy. Use wheat paste. Then, if you mess up the repair, you can take it apart and do it again. With PVA if you mess up--you've messed up. My best advise is go to a conservator. If the damage isn't very severe, like if you just have re-glue a loose paste-down, use wheat paste, or find a conservator. If that's a bother, e-mail the dimensions of the book to me and I'll build a box for you. Boxes are the ultimate in reversibility. You can close them *AND* open them. Paris Anderson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 28 Aug 2003 16:47:15 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > There has never been a denial of the concept of a > Mother in Heaven, > although it's common knowledge that this is the usual > interpretation of "O My Father." But to my > recollection it's never been preached from the pulpit > either, as doctrine. > > Linda Adams > > I tried once before to respond to this thread but didn't make it past the moderator. But I will try this one more time. I hope it will pass the test of our list guidelines as it does make reference to Mormon letters. We have a very reputable book written by one of our prophets in corroboration with his counselors, which I think will stand as a witness to the question of whether or not we have received valid doctrine on the question of a mother in heaven, albeit not from the pulpit. Because it is a book written for the general public, I guess some can't consider it scripture, but I would think that any writing about heavenly things or spiritual relationships to deity would be considered doctrine or clarification of doctrine, which the foreword, written by Mark E. Peterson, states. The following is a direct quote: The Father of Jesus is our Father also, Jesus himself taught this truth, when he instructed his disciples how to pray: "Our Father which art in heaven," etc. Jesus, however, is the Firstborn among all the sons of God-the first begotten in the spirit, and the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother, and we, like him, are in the image of God. All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954], 351.) I interpret -"begotten in the spirit" as spiritual offspring of an eternal father and an eternal mother, which is the ultimate form of creation, which those who are exalted will participate in within the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom. that is why we will find our final estate to be: "...to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever..." (D&C 132:19 Likewise I interpret "continuation of seeds" to mean the ability to sire spiritual children. Some may find these interpretations too literal or if you will pardon the usage, liberal, and if so I'm sorry, but it seems logical and in keeping with our belief in our ability to become gods and goddesses. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 28 Aug 2003 17:29:37 -0600 Karen Davidson further states in her piece that Eliza R. Snow was married to Joseph Smith at the time she wrote this hymn and thus had many opportunities to discuss matters of doctrine with him ( this point she got from George D. Pyper). Pyper continues Zina D. Huntington's mother who had died some time before and was buried in a temporary grave. They had to exhume the body and discovered that the remains were partially petrified. This upset Zina and caused her to ask, "Shall I know my mother when I meet her in the world beyond?" The Prophet responded emphatically, "Yes, you will know your mother there." Davidson concludes that from these points (her close association with the Prophet and the discussions about Zina's mothers death) came the inspiration for Eliza R. Snow to write the poem. Nan McCulloch ----- Original Message ----- > That could be the right book, but I was thinking of a story giving the > history of how she came to write it, and that Joseph Smith gave his > approval of the verses. Something like that? > At any rate it's one of my most favorite hymns. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Street Painting in Italy Date: 28 Aug 2003 17:37:18 -0600 Congratulations on this remarkable achievement. As an art collector, I'm trying to figure out how to collect your street painting art. Do you use other mediums? Where can I see your work? Try to go to Istanbul. It is such a fabulous place. Nan McCulloch -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: [AML] Re: Uplifting Writing (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) Date: 28 Aug 2003 17:40:13 -0600 [MOD: I'm trying to standardize to a new thread title for this dimension of the discussion.] ----- Original Message ----- > <<< > I guess we as a group of writers have to use our > agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the > church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or > denigrating the church and its members into shame. > >>> > > This either/or type of thinking is exactly what gives rise to so much Mormon > literature that is merely disguised propaganda. What's wrong with having the > purpose of honestly exploring and portraying human reality, both the good > and the bad, and letting the chips fall where they may with regards to how > people view the LDS Church? When a writer starts with the notion of > strengthening the church's image or attracting investigators, he or she will > likely not write anything challenging, provocative, deep, or authentic > enough to be called real literature. > I agree that as writers we shouldn't start out with the purpose of luring our readers into investigating the church. I think we should attempt to honestly explore and portray human reality, both the good and the bad, and let our characters triumph over adversity and human foibles and yes, eventually, despite all their weaknesses and failures, to find hope and faith in the restored gospel. By developing plots that lead our characters from the depths of human despair to the heights of growth, redemption, and faith in our Lord and Savior, we can instill in our readers a desire to do the same. Personally I see nothing wrong in this goal for my writing. However we all have our agency to portray the church and its members in any way we see fit. We also have the responsibility for how we do this. As for me and my PC, I will try my best to advance the cause of the church, by showing its redemptive and saving powers, despite the faults and imperfections of the members, and yes, occasional errors of the leadership. Let each of us try to do the same, and let's remember not to be too judgmental of each other, we can only do our best according to how and what we know or understand. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Date: 28 Aug 2003 17:57:29 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > Bill Willson wrote: > > > Since when does cuteness justify damaging the image of anyone, or the image > > of the church members? > > I think you're exaggerating the power of the cute scenes to damage us. > We've done much more damage to our own image than these trivial scenes > ever could. > > > > I guess we as a group of writers have to use our > > agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the > > church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or > > denigrating the church and its members into shame. > > Were the writers of that film LDS? If not, how is this relevant? But > ignoring that point, let me respond to what you said. > I don't think we need to ignore this point. If I'm not mistaken the AML list is for writers who are Mormon or who write for or about the Mormons. So what does it matter what the writer's religion is, he wrote something about Mormons into his plot. As to the rest of your post, please see my response to Christopher Bigelow's response to my same post. I think we all agree that the purpose of our writing shouldn't focus on luring converts or investigators to the church, but we do need to show our readers that there is a better way to pass through mortality and that there is a purpose to life far above their wildest dreams. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report 22 Aug. 03 Date: 28 Aug 2003 19:52:27 -0600 >A MORMON IN "NORTHFORK"? - "Northfork" is a new feature film currently in >theatrical release. The movie stars non-LDS Utah native James Woods in the >lead role. Co-stars include Mark Polish, Nick Nolte, Daryl Hannah and >Anthony Edwards. The movie depicts a group of government agents trying to >persuade residents of a rural area of Montana to move away before the area >is flooded. One resident is a devoutly religious taxidermist, "Mr. >Stalling", played by veteran character actor Marshall Bell. He and his two >wives (named Mrs. Stalling #1 and Mrs. Stalling #2 in the credits) have >built a home in the shape of an ark and tell Woods' character that they plan >to float when the waters come. A few movie reviewers refer to the three >characters (Stalling and his 2 >wives) as "Mormons," or "Mormon polygamists," but nearly all other reviewers >simply refer to them as "polygamists" (perhaps a nod to Church >preferences?), or they simply call Mr. Stalling a man with two wives. I >haven't seen the movie, so I have no way of knowing if the characters are >intended to be Mormonesque polygamists, or if the Stallings are intended to >be general Protestant polygamists. I have seen the movie, and no, they're no indication they're Mormons. Reviewers who have called them that have done so on the assumption that all polygamists in America are Mormon fundamentalists. Which, I guess, is probably true. But still, the movie doesn't say so. Eric D. Snider -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 28 Aug 2003 22:13:03 -0600 Jana Remy: >I've been recently called as my Stake's "Media Liason", which is an arm of >the Stake Public Relations Dept. At a PR meeting last night each ward PR >Rep was handed copies of the BOM movie posters for their foyers and were >encouraged to have ward FHE outings to attend the movie so we could boost >its attendance in So. Cal and keep it in the theaters longer. This sort of thoughtlessness is stunning, absolutely stunning. Have any of these people even SEEN the movie yet? For all they know, it's the worst film ever made. But being based on the Book of Mormon, it's automatically worth seeing and planning ward activities around? If the film does suck -- and everything I've heard about it so far suggests that it does -- I hope people will respond accordingly. But I have this sick feeling that it's going to make money anyway. Eric D. Snider -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Perry Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 29 Aug 2003 00:07:07 -0600 On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 04:14PM, Annette Lyon wrote: >If something as dramatic as the Manifesto were given today, how many of us >would think, "Hmm. Not inspired this time," and move on? Or a reversal of the manifesto? That would be _my_ test. :-) Steve -- skperry@mac.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Dewey Remy Subject: RE: [AML] Uplifting Writing Date: 28 Aug 2003 23:11:54 -0700 Thom Duncan wrote: > > It has been my experience that a writer whose FIRST > thought is not offend or to strengthen and uplift will > invariably fail to do either. With that paradigm > driving their writing, writers will invariably find > themselves saying things like, "I [can't] show Joseph > drinking wine on the afternoon of his martrydom. It > will offend my mother." Thus, imo, losing an > opportnity to give us insight into Joseph Smith that, > prophet though he was, he was also human enough to > find comfort in the fruit of the vine at a very trying > time of his life. I tend to be prone to hero worship, and I often have a hard time when I realize just how human my heroes can be. However, I don't think that the solution to my problem is to hide my head in the sand, to shut my eyes to the frailty of the people I respect and admire. The author that Thom describes above caters to the ostriches among us. I agree with Thom that this (class of) author loses "an opportunity to give us insight"--they leave us without depth, like photographs of Rodin sculptures. The Bible does a better job of giving us rich prominent characters than most works of LDS Church history (which tend to lean to one dimensional, positive or negative portrayals--see _Under the Banner of Heaven_, for example). - God calls all sorts of obviously imperfect people in the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible: Noah, Aaron, David, Saul, Jonah, etc. - Moses--who spends two chapters equivocating and resisting his call before he finally gives in. - Mark's portrayal of Jesus: he often seems exasperated with those closest to him: "How is it that you do not understand?", "Why are ye so fearful? how is it that you have no faith?" - The Twelve: they argue with each other about who is the best, they are impetuous and lack faith and understanding, and yet, when Jesus tells them that one of them will betray him, the Eleven are humble and introspective enough to ask, "Is it I?" - The Bible seems to shout out: "God's children are flawed! He works through them in spite of/because of this!" I think that our multimedia culture, with its tunnel-vision emphasis on image and soundbites and public relations (and the institutional Church certainly participates in this), exacerbates the problem of the "perception of perfection." Many among us would have our Church leaders be little Saviors in miniature, with but minor imperfections, so as not to offend the perfection of God and Christ. I love one of President Hinckley's daughter's reactions to his being called as a GA: "I was aware of the human weaknesses my parents displayed, so Dad's call came as a little crisis of faith for me. I thought, 'How could the Lord call somebody like my dad who's so average and sometimes lacking?...I guess the Lord is just going to have to work with what he's got'" (from _Go Forward with Faith_, p. 198). I think that he's done a pretty good job. John Remy UC Irvine -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sam Brown Subject: [AML] Making Mormonism Bear Lucrative Fruit (was: BofM Movie Fireside) Date: 29 Aug 2003 07:02:27 -0400 Hello, Margaret was right on to allude to the "money-changers" in the temple apropos this discussion of the BofM fireside. I think this is a rich area that needs a little more careful thought. Just a few examples that might merit discussion. 1. General Authority books. I've thought a lot about this, and I've talked to a variety of church leaders about this. Their books, by and large, sell because of their calling in the kingdom. They differ little if any from the writings that could be generated by any on this list, or any of a multitude of CES instructors, BYU grads, or doctrinal/inspirational hobbyists. In a certain sense, the purchase of these books allows one to participate in the joy of celebrity. This is a common phenomenon in the world at large: we won't read books by Colin Powell, Hillary Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and so on because they are well-written. We read them because they allow us to participate in the cult of those greater than we are. i see the same thing as I wander through Deseret Book on the devotional aisle. Given that these are exclusively a function of their church calling, is it moral for them to retain royalties? I would suggest that it represents a conflict of interest and priestcraft, but what makes it hard is that these really are wonderful people who for whatever reason haven't considered the ethical dimensions, and we're not a society that is particularly open to e.g. a mass letter to SLC requesting that GAs not get royalties for writing devotional literature. I'm actually all for giving a better stipend if that's what required. 2. Stephen Covey. Here is someone without particularly high authority in the church (though his original dust jackets included careful reference to his tenure as a mission president) who managed to repackage some basic Gospel insights and sell them to insensate hordes of future business leaders and aspiring entrepreneurs. His books, to my jaundiced eye, are insipid retellings of moral truths designed to make a) Covey rich, b) the reader participate in the American delusion that all excellence-focused greed/aspiration will be rewarded. Was it wrong for Covey to make millions off repackaging Gospel insights for non-Mormons? Is it priestcraft or just raw American entrepreneurial ingenuity? Is there an incendiary analogy to someone swiping a chandelier from the temple to sell it at a flea market? I vaguely associated Hyrum Smith and company with this phenomenon, exploiting our hypertrophic zeal in carrying forward the Protestant work ethic. 3. Orrin Hatch. This whole controversy about ethics being reported on the list brings it to focus. He uses, apparently with little success, his prominence to sell a collection of "patriotic" songs. This seems to speak to the same celebrity/vanity issue as 1) above, but with less obvious implication of priestcraft. 4. Beehive Clothing. This one I have no idea about. The money changers were actually, if you read contemporary scholarly commentary, considered an appropriate innovation, as offerings had to be given in sacred coin rather than the secular money of the evil Roman Empire. They charged money for the right to give offerings, but they facilitated the offerings. It's not clear to me why we pay money for garments or for temple clothing rentals. It's a great way to make the users the ones who subsidize an activity, but this isn't a toll road. I wonder why this isn't paid from tithing, particularly for the poor (though establishing who is and is not poor could be a demeaning process around something so sacred), why money changes hands in the temple. I wonder whether there's a better way to do it. 5. Living Scriptures. I remember in the late 90s watching a small group of slick-haired, Nuskinned returned missionaries descend on our ward outside Boston and begin making introductions, schmoozing, reporting that they were "doing an internship" in the area. They collected ward lists, established contact networks, and within about a week were openly peddling their mawkish cartoons about the Book of Mormon. It felt evil to dismiss them from church, as they were card-carrying, endowed LDS members, but there they were, invading our church lives with the explicit goal of making money. In protest, I decided that I will never purchase anything from that company. I can't comment on their current status. 6. Deseret Book. Someone who knows the DB mafia should let them know that putting their insignia on temple schedules or anything distributed at a temple is wholly inappropriate. In addition, this community standards censorship debacle is another reminder of what happens when business and religion are mixed, and I think it's showing its fruits: good literature is eliminated from a community's main supplier of fiction, and a quasi-ecclesiastical group with strong ties to church leadership restricts itself, at a certain level, to books with a conflict of interest, as in (1) above. 7. Mormon novelists writing for a non-Mormon audience. Brady Udall and Judith Freeman have done the best job of writing successful fiction based on Mormonism, selling it to an outside audience. While Red Waters is a decent novel per se, I doubt sales would have been impressive if it had not taken advantage of our voyeuristic fascination with polygamy. Udall's fiction ("Buckeye the Elder," and _Edgar Mint_) uses Mormon characters to great advantage, though those works would stand if you made the characters odd Protestants because they are written so well. Is there anything wrong about that? Is this an inane question? I keep slowly mulling over the idea of a novel called _Mothers and Daughters_, an updated version of Turgenev's classic _Fathers and Sons_, based in a traditional family on Salt Lake's East Bench. If it were to be successful, it would be as a function of its exploration of the strangeness of upper-middle-class Wasatch Front Mormonism. Is that exploiting my religion for profit? I don't have great answers, just an anxious awareness that we could do better. -- Yours, Samuel Brown, MD Massachusetts General Hospital sam@vecna.com -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] _Irreantum_ Issue on Romance Date: 29 Aug 2003 09:03:46 -0500 >ESSAYS >Don't Call My Book a Bodice-Ripper! Or, The Value of Romance Fiction, I await this and its associated articles with much anticipation. I can understand about every other type of literature but, wrt romance, I just don't get it. It seems to me to be a form of benign pornography where the nasty parts happen in the reader's mind. Stories which, if the exciting parts were detailed, the genre's own fans (at least the LDS ones) would be embarassed to read. Had my ex been the reader of romances I would have wondered what was wrong with me as a huband. Just as she would rightly wonder what was wrong with her had I been reading Penthouse at the kitchen table. I called Romance a "genre" abve. I think Romance is a genre wannabe. Unlike true genres (horrors, fantasy, mystery, sf), which have intrested readers running the gamut of age and gender, Romance readers are for the most part, women who share a certain age and marital dissatisfaction. I'm hoping Barbara's article and the others will help to persuade me differently. But I have tried to read these novels and I can't more than a page in. They must be talking to someone other than me because I just don't get it. -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Killer in Best Picture Oscar Winner Date: 29 Aug 2003 09:33:04 -0500 --- Original Message --- Winner >"Chicago," released in 2002, won the Academy Award for Best Picture. This >movie features a blatantly anti-Mormon reference which trades on old and >inaccurate religious and ethnic stereotypes. It has long been my hope that we never have a Mormon Defense League, or some similar organization that rides on free publicity to make its organzation more well known in the world. I would hope that we as Mormons will choose to be less sensitive to non- favorable portrayals of us or our life-style. I would hope we can take the high ground and not write letters to the editor every time a book or movie comes out that tries to portray us with a broad brush. I'm never impressed when some organzation makes the papers because its core constituants are complaing about such and such. Most recently, a jewish organization up in arms over Mel Gibson's Christ movie. I am always wondering how loyal to their own organization that group is or are they using the automatic buzz about the movie to get their names in the papers so the next time they go out and ask for donations (they are always non profit groups) they will be seen as a viable organization. I think the best and the only really powerful way to combat negative publicity about Mormons is to produce art that will change people's minds. The more movies like "Brigham City" there are, the more people will evenutally come to understand that "we are not weird." -- Thom Duncan -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 29 Aug 2003 07:44:11 -0600 > As a student at BYU many years ago, I attended a married student ward in > the > Deseret Industries building. I remember walking into sacrament meeting > and > the guy in charge of programs handed me one. He just happened to be a > Beneficial Life agent, and lookey here, at the bottom, he'd printed the > slogan, "Is Your Life Beneficial?" with his name and phone number. > Greg Taggart I recall being in Provo ward for a few months (just before the Y2K flop) and the Elder's Quorm president *every SUnday* somehow managed to work in a mention that he was employed by Emergency Essentials. Oh, and half the lessons he gave were on being prepared with your food storage and emergency supplies. While thos lessons used GA quotes and Church policy, I felt it was a bit self-serving. I think, though, that this is where the arts (especially film and literature) can help out. As Margaret Young pointed out once about a different type of person, I feel these guys are like somewhat like cockroaches - if we can shine the light on them in the right way, they'll scatter. --ivan wolfe -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Peter Chamberlain" Subject: RE: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 29 Aug 2003 08:51:50 -0600 That's pretty funny. A couple of years ago the McDonald's across the street ran a conference special on extra value meals. Breakfast came with coffee and lunch/dinner came with caffeinated coke. The problem this scheduling causes is when to take the young men out to ice cream for sitting through priesthood. Peter Chamberlain Senior Estimator Westcon Microtunneling (801) 830-8481 pchamberlain@westcon.net -----Original Message----- Boy, you think the BofM fireside was close to the edge, what about BYU football. I dunno, guess I've been out of the loop too long, sounds to me like straight out of the Sugar Beet. Chris--is Tad Walch one of your writers? -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Matkin Subject: RE: [AML] Street Painting in Italy Date: 29 Aug 2003 10:53:30 -0600 The street painter toils with chalk on some ephemeral eddy in the constant river of human passage. The painting has its peculiar genre, always a little too bright, too jangling, too loud to hold, but meant to catch my attention. Beauty so out of place here on the grimy asphalt, that it's wrong enough to surprise and delight. So European. Sacred ground for a day and then back to being the common indistinct pathway of everyman, only now, for weeks to come it will be smudged with faded colored chalk and indifferent to the rain that took away its virtue in the first place. Madonna or Rembrandt or Elvis (usually the Vegas one) it doesn't matter, it is a street painting for Heaven's sake! As old as footsteps. A cousin to the elaborate ice sculptures, magnificent sand castles, and amazing buskers who decorate and prowl around the beaches, footpaths and parkways of life. The painter stands just back, and watches me stop, satisfied at first to have reeled me in, but then hoping I'll throw my coins in the basket too so she can paint again another day. You paint on girl. Paint on. Tom -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 29 Aug 2003 11:36:24 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > > > Bill Willson wrote: > > > > >If humans are not perfect, and GA's are humans, then it stands to reason > >that Ga's are not perfect, but they are more perfect than any of the rest of > >us, > > Thom replied: > "More" perfect? Is that like "almost" pregnant. Someone is either > perfect, or they are not. GAs are no more or less perfect than any > other mortal who walks the earth. I do agree with you, though, in that > there are problems if we hold them to the extreme of either spectrum. > So? I know I'm not perfect, but it doesn't take a huge stretch of imagination to translate "more perfect" to "almost perfect," or "closer to perfection." Anyone knows one can't be almost pregnant, that is ludicrous. Surely you must be nit picking just a bit. I can't agree with, "Someone is either perfect or they are not." As far as I know, Jesus was the only perfect mortal to walk the earth. Nor do I agree with, "GAs are no more or less perfect than any other mortal who walks the earth." They certainly are "more perfect" than you or I, and hopefully we are a little further along the way toward perfection than say, the average dissident ranting and raving against the church on Temple Square Plaza. And yes, I agree, there are problems if we hold them to the extreme of either spectrum. Bill -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) Date: 29 Aug 2003 12:01:12 -0600 ----- Original Message ----- > Probably the strongest thing that drew me to the Church was that the > missionaries said, "Don't believe this because we say so. Pray about it and > you'll get an answer." I've also been taught to listen prayerfully to the > conference talks. There have been many, many times when I have felt the > Spirit witness to me the truth of something I was hearing. There has also > been at least one time when I leaped to my feet in outrage and said, "That > is not right!" I think all of us leap to our feet on occasion, when we hear dark doctrine coming from supposedly reliable sources. That is why we have the spirit of the Holy Ghost to help us along and sort things out. We need to write about how the spirit can guide and direct us away from error, and help us too recognize the truth. I remember twice in the latter half of the last century coming home from priesthood steamed, because I had been taught that I couldn't be a good member of the church and be a member of a union, and similarly not a good member if a Democrat, or a liberal. Sorry, but to my mind that's just plain not true. The spirit has prompted me to think that if Christ were on the earth today, he quite possibly could be a liberal, or a Democrat, or a union member. I hope no one will accuse me of blasphemy here. Bill Willson -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stephen Carter Subject: RE: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Date: 29 Aug 2003 11:37:20 -0800 >===== Original Message From Clark Goble ===== > ___ Tom ___ >| I've been looking for a reference for an anecdote about >| heavenly mothers that someone told me Joseph Smith had >| said. Here is what my friend said: Joseph Smith was >| once lying on the ground looking up into heaven when he >| said to a friend beside him: "Do you know what I see? I >| see a father, a mother, and a son." Apparently later >| church leaders edited out mother and replaced it with >| Holy Spirit. > ___ It sounds to me like Joseph was interpreting clouds. Just after "a father, a mother, and a son," he probably said, "and that cloud there looks like a curelom, don't you think?" I apologize if that joke was too obvious. Stephen Carter Fairbanks, Alaska -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Samuelsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 29 Aug 2003 15:11:12 -0600 Well, sure. Lot's of people can't stand the taste of the stuff, and = that says nothing about their political or religious views. =20 I was simply trying to convey my sense of how the Diet Coke issue seems = to play out in our culture. Diet Coke drinking seems to me to be = perceived as having something of a political component. It probably = doesn't, actually, but that's how it seems to be perceived. Eric Samuelsen -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: [AML] AML-List Members in Theater? (was: Fiddler on the Roof Performance) Date: 29 Aug 2003 18:12:35 -0600 Nan McCulloch wroteL "'Not every woman in the world is a Yente,' but I am blessed to play her for a season." This cracks me up and intrigues me, because I also do theater...I'm in rehearsals for a production of THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL right now. Then I thought of Thom, and Scott and so many others (not to mention the professional filmmakers/screenwriters that rear their heads here), and I wondered "how many people on this list are theater rats as well?" C'mon, 'fess up, by a a click of the mouse--how many of you have performed in plays/musicals in your lives. How many still do? You can answer me off list so we don't clog this place, if you prefer (kcmadsen@utah-inter.net). [MOD: I'm fine with doing this on AML-List, though I'll probably compile responses into a few compilation posts if there are very many.] -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Ordination of Elijah Abel Date: 29 Aug 2003 18:15:06 -0600 He is not entirely accurate. The men were sealed but not as mates, but more along the lines of being sealed as family members, like brothers. I can't remember exactly who the two guys were. But I seem to recall that John Taylor was sealed as a son to Joseph, or something like that. It was done all the time in those early days. Thom Barbara Hume wrote: > At 01:59 PM 8/23/03 +0000, you wrote: > >> Apparently, there are a number of people wondering about the veracity >> of the claim that Joseph Smith ordained Elijah Abel to the priesthood. > > > A gay friend of mine says that Joseph Smith also presided over a > marriage between two men. Anybody know anything about that claim? He > gave me no documentation. > -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Date: 29 Aug 2003 18:17:49 -0600 Lisa Tait wrote: >Whatever the product or situation, I just don't see any appropriate way to >use the church as a marketing avenue. > I do. Let everyone advertise whatever they want under the understanding that these advertisements aren't officially supported by the Church. A special bulletin board in each chapel, or something like that. Thom > > -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Date: 29 Aug 2003 18:18:41 -0600 Nan said: "Sorry to spoil your exercise in type-casting, but I hate the taste of Diet Coke preferring just regular Coke w/caffeine. I am also a Republican, who craves challenging history and searches out unconventional as well as conventional doctrine. I do my teaching whenever I get around to it and always wear my hats at a jaunty angle." And not only are my hats at a jaunty angle--they are RED...while sometimes the rest of me wears purple. I'm that age, you know. I hate COKE in every form, but that's because I dislike the taste of colas. I like root beer and Fresca is my fav. I vote all over the map which causes my Democratic good friend to roll his eyes. We are humans first, Mo's second. No one can categorize us. -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Changing the Words (was: Is It Funnier with the Profanity?) Date: 29 Aug 2003 19:33:18 -0600 ---Original Message From: Jongiorgi Enos Orson Scott Card has contributed two bits to this discussion. I found it interesting that he used it as an opportunity to discuss artistic arrogance. http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-08-10-1.html Jacob Proffitt -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] _Irreantum_ Issue on Romance Date: 29 Aug 2003 21:00:21 -0600 At 09:03 AM 8/29/03 -0500, you wrote: >I'm hoping Barbara's article and the others will help >to persuade me differently. But I have tried to read >these novels and I can't more than a page in. They >must be talking to someone other than me because I >just don't get it. Of course they're talking to someone other than you. Just as Clive Cussler is talking to someone other than me. But I don't make rude remarks about that type of literature just because it doesn't resonate with me. The fact that 55% of the paperback market in the country is romance tells you that there is a market. And they are not porn! They are about love, not about sex--never mind the ones to which Sturgeon's Law applies. For some reason, books about people killing people are fine, but books about people finding love are bad. Go figure. barbara hume -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature