From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #57 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, June 2 2000 Volume 01 : Number 057 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:59:35 -0400 From: debbro@voyager.net Subject: [AML] Re: Where's our LDS Amy Tan? Not at all Lynn, I'm only a HS graduate, and everything I know about writing, editing, reporting, and so on, I learned from doing and making mistakes and sheer stupidity. The stupid part was saying "sure, I can do that" and was then editor of the ward newsletter for five years but which led to a job as an editor for a small community newspaper. BTW, this may be just my opinion, but the job of ward newsletter editor is one of the most unappreciated and thankless callings in the church. No one ever seems to have trouble telling the editor how the newsletter should be written, but when asked to write something for it, they can't be bothered. ANd then if you do get someone to write an article for you, and you dare to edit it, boy, there is only one word to describe that editor, for as we all know, no one ever needs editing. Debbie Brown Lynn Gardner (probably the only unlettered person on this list!) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:19:42 -0400 From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: [AML] Unlettered (was: Where's our LDS Amy Tan?) If by "unlettered" you mean no degree then you are certainly not alone. Tracie - -----Original Message----- And like Darvell, I feel I'll need some formal training to do it since my one year at BYU a hundred years ago, and all the workshops and conferences and classes I've attended since that time probably haven't prepared me sufficiently to do it justice. Lynn Gardner (probably the only unlettered person on this list!) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:21:01 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] June Editorial It's been a month now that I've been moderating AML-List. It's been a learning time for me--and a time that's required some patience and tolerance on the part of List members, as you've had the experience of watching me fumble around and make some mis-steps as I've struggled to master these new duties. Well, mastery is still far from me; but we all seem to have survived the experience thus far, and I'll continue to try and muddle through. This month has presented a clear example of the kind of boom-and-bust cycle that's fairly common on the List. At the beginning of May, while conversation hadn't died down entirely, still things seemed to be going at a fairly slow pace. Toward the end of the month, though, several new topics got going that prompted extensive discussion. (I've noticed that sex-in-literature topics, in particular, tend to have that effect.) Right now, conversation is pretty heavy. But things will die down again--and revive again--and so on. That's just the way things go. I'd like to spend a couple of minutes talking about the process and criteria I use in forwarding posts to the List. The software we use automatically "bounces" all posts from the List to my e-mail address. However, because of the way the system works, I don't see the authors of those bounced posts or their subject lines when they show up in my in-box. Until I open up each post and read it, I don't know who it comes from or what it's about. So when I first download a set of messages, I can't tell at a glance how many List members they come from, or what the mix of topics is--or how many of them might be private or administrative posts to me as moderator. This has some implications for how I process the posts. Generally, I don't read through all the posts before I start sending them. Instead, each time I open a post, I start with the assumption that I'll be sending it out as soon as I finish reading it, and before I read the next post in the stack--unless something I see while I'm reading it causes me to set it aside into the overflow or discard file. Some of the most common reasons for me to set aside a post include the following: * If it's off-topic for the List--that is, not related in some clear way to Mormon letters, or violating one of the other List guidelines related to what's on- and off-topic. There are, of course, degrees of off-topic-ness. Fairly often I'll let through a post that's not strictly on-topic, but contributes (in my judgment) to the ongoing discussion. I'm more likely to be strict on this when List volume is heavy, or if the discussion as a whole seems to be going off-topic, or if I can tell that the post will prompt replies that are also mostly off-topic. * If it seems to go beyond disagreeing with another List member's point of view toward flaming, name-calling, or disrespect for (to quote the List guidelines) "the integrity, opinions, and beliefs of others." This is an area that's clearly subject to a great deal of interpretation. Typically, what I do in these cases is to send back a message to the author of the post, explaining how it's out-of-bounds and sometimes giving suggestions for how it could be revised to preserve the main point without seeming to become personal. The goal isn't to avoid disagreement on the List, even vigorous disagreement; but to keep this, as much as possible, a place where people of varying opinions can feel free to voice those opinions in an atmosphere of mutual respect. * If the post is very short and doesn't add much to the conversation--for example, if it simply agrees with what someone else has said without amplifying on it, or if it provides a fact that has already been given by someone else. For example, I recently asked if someone had information about the LDS writer of _Galaxy Quest_. Several List members wrote in with information. In this case, I happened to read ahead, and was able to forward the posts that gave more detail and put several other posts into the discard pile that simply gave a name and a quick identification. (Let me remind you again, though, that usually I don't read ahead, so this isn't always the way it happens!) * If I've already sent out several posts that day by the same author, especially on the same topic. Generally, I prefer to send out no more than 2-3 per person per day (with exceptions, of course, for people like Larry Jackson who are forwarding news items to the List). This isn't just to keep down the volume, but also to try to keep a balanced conversation, with many voices contributing. If I notice several comments by one person in the in-box, sometimes I'll sift through them and send out the one that seems to me the meatiest and most stimulating--but more often, because of the way I operate, I'll simply send the first couple I get to, then reluctantly put the others into the overflow--whence, I must tell you, they very seldom come out again. (Let me add that if you've sent in a message you care particularly about, and it hasn't shown up, please send it again with a follow-up query. Sometimes items do get lost, or buried in my files...) It's been a fun and interesting month. I'd like to get some of our more regular columns going again--Ed Snow, among others, has talked very promisingly of a Return to AML-List--but this past month, my energy's been taken up largely with simply getting used to the job of moderator and doing the AML-List Highlights column for Issue 6 of _Irreantum_. (Something I believe I've now successfully handed off--it was a fun job, but time-consuming, and I'd rather not continue with it while serving as moderator.) But we'll hope that in another month, I have more definite news along those lines to report. Meantime, back into the fray-- Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 14:15:04 -0600 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Fw: [AML] Divorce in LDS lit. I did a fair amount of family law as a lawyer in So. Cal. and decided then that I would never get a divorce (unless I had a really good biblical reason, I suppose, but nothing like that has ever surfaced in my marriage). But I know good members who have, sometimes for biblical reasons and sometimes not. The Moderator would rather I don't go into issues relating to the grounds for divorce for reasons with which I agree, but I do think it helps to understand what grounds have been identified scripturally as acceptable for divorce, because if we are to write about divorce, there are often distinctions to be made, since I believe a divorce without biblical grounds requires repentance. (How do you repent of divorce? Easy. Never get a divorce again! :-)) Anyway, I don't want to get into a big discussion about what are and what are not biblical grounds, unless the Moderator thinks we can do it right -- staying on topic and all. But the point is this. I have a novel in progress that originally explored this theme a little. It was in a draft, but I got quite a negative reaction to my divorced hero. My hero even had one of the biblical reasons for divorce, but still none of the women liked him. It would be interesting to know what this list thinks. Do women always dislike divorced heroes? Why? Is there a way the story could be written so as to make the divorced hero acceptable? The problem is this: If you have a story about someone in their late thirties or early forties, and you want a romance, how can you do it if the hero is not divorced? Do you have to write about a guy who's never been married? I don't think that's as realistic and interesting as a hero who's been divorced, and the only other alternative is for him to be a widower, and I'm sorry, that really stretches credibility. How many women die before 40 these days? Okay, then, tell me ladies, would you prefer a hero to be a widower (pining for his lost love), or a divorcee (finally ready to meet the love of his life)? I'm very curious! Richard Hopkins> - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:41:09 EDT From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN OSTLING/OSTLING, _Mormon America_ From: Kent Larsen To: Mormon News Subject: MN Mormon America Criticized For Being Too Favorable: Chicago Tribune 28May00 A4 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 11:45:00 -0400 [From Mormon-News] Mormon America Criticized For Being Too Favorable (Revelations) Chicago Tribune 28May00 A4 http://chicagotribune.com/leisure/books/article/0,2669,SAV-0005280336,FF.html By Chris Barsanti 3 new books illuminate Mormonism, Tibetan Buddism and Paradise itself MORMON AMERICA: The Power and the Promise By Richard N. Ostling and Joan K. Ostling HarperSanFrancisco, 454 pages, $26 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS -- While many Mormons have been disappointed with Richard and Joan Ostling's book "Mormon America" because they feel it is too harsh on the LDS Church, Chris Barsanti, writing in the Chicago Tribune, criticizes the book for being too soft on Mormonism. Barsanti calls the book "worshipful," and says that stance colors what could be a groundbreaking work. Barsanti does say that the book is welcome, and that it is full of "detailed information about Mormon history, beliefs and controversies," but says that the Ostling's conclusions come closer to hagiography than objectivity. He says that while the Ostlings dispute the idea that Mormonism is a fringe religion, "they do little to disprove it." He claims the description of Mormon history "tries unsuccessfully to evoke sympathy" and claims that the Ostlings detail "every wrong ever witnessed on the Mormons," but soft-pedal troubling events like the Danites and the Mountain Meadows Massacre. See also: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060663715/mormonnews More about "Mormon America: The Power and the Promise" at Amazon.com >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:12:53 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Where's our LDS Mark Twain? Morgan Adair wrote: > Twain is remembered more for _The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn_. > Huck Finn is a great book, and it was critical of and offensive to the people > it depicted (offensive, at least, to those who recognized Twain was writing > about them). > > What Huck, Frank Windham, and Terry Walker (_Dancing Naked_) have > in common is what Twain called a "deformed conscience." The pious of > Huck's society told him slavery is right; Frank grew up with undeserved > shame and fear of God; Terry's family had a legacy of irrational homophobia. > The greatness or near-greatness of these books lies in how they make us > look at the values our societies have given us. I think there's an important difference here. It's one thing to attack cultural defects and hypocricies, something I would have no problem with and I think an insider member of the church could do--albeit one who would have to have the courage to face knee-jerk criticism from less insightful members. But when one starts criticizing the theology itself, which often seems to get lumped into the mix with the "inder-outsider" writer trying very hard to be objective, then the line is crossed and the writer has placed him/herself squarely on the other side. Not that I'm outraged when someone chooses to do that. But I question whether that's necessary to write great literature about Mormons. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:20:54 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Re: Where's our LDS Amy Tam? Matthew Hamby wrote: > > What about Dutcher's "God's Army"? Doesn't that count as an accurate > description, looking from the inside. It was certainly a good depiction of > typical events in my mission. Thom Duncan wrote: > No, because I don't think it speaks as effectively to those outside our > faith. Some things, like the healing, are just so beyond the > understanding of the non-Mormon audience, that they would form a > stumbling block. It's true that _God's Army_ was told to an LDS audience and technically wouldn't qualify as an "Amy Tan" example. But without a great deal of trouble it could have been tweaked to reach a non-LDS audience and is therefore still useful as an example. Is there _that_ much difference between showing some of our warts to the world and showing them to ourselves in a medium where the world can easily listen in? Either way, the storyteller is facing criticism from his fellow members if they don't like it. Thom Duncan wrote: > > I think we have our Mormon Amy Tan/Mark Twain. The names are Orson Scott Card > > and Dave Wolverton/Farland. > > When they claim their Pulitzers, then let's talk. Ooooooooooooooh, that one got my dander up! Surely as an SF aficianado, Thom, you understand how great literature can be written in that genre and still be entirely snubbed by the literary elite handing out the awards. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:38:01 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Jerry JOHNSTON, "Waiting for a great Mormon novelist" This is an exciting article for me to read! But I have to warn you, if your hubris tolerance level is low, you'd better not read on. I am writing a novel right now that exactly fits these requirements for the "great Mormon novel." Yet I don't consider myself to be "someone who left the fold, but is working back toward it." I consider myself to have been in the fold all along. However, I do consider myself somewhat of an outsider when it comes to Utah culture. Is this the real need for the LDS Amy Tan? To feel outside the culture, not the religion? I haven't been keeping track, but I wonder now if all those who are trying to say only lapsed or lasping LDS members can write the great Mormon novel are Utah born and bred, and therefore have a hard time separating culture from religion themselves? >From their point of view, it might appear that some level of rejection of the religion itself is necessary for the required objectivity. As someone Minnesota born and bred, I don't have any problem seeing how someone could be outside the culture but inside the religion. And let's face it, if there ever will be a great Mormon novel that is acclaimed as such by both members and nonmembers, it will have to be one that tells the truth about the people, but respects the religion. If either ingredient is missing, one or the other faction will reject the classification of the novel. Wouldn't it be fantastic if I was writing the first great Mormon novel! But whether it proves to be that or not, I believe my efforts are an existence proof that it can be done without the author being a "lost generation" type. All the correct variables are there--except one: do I have the writing skills to pull it off? That one's a BIG if. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Valerie Holladay Subject: [AML] Multiple Points of View (was: Sexuality in LDS Lit) - --- harlowclark@juno.com wrote: > It's unwritten partly because I've been trying to > define the story's narrative voice, . . . I have > considered different ways of approaching the story, > for example, telling it from a parent's pov and not > quoting the exchanges, but that only tells us what > it's like from the outside. With the various personalities and viewpoints involved, I'd love to see each person tell it the way he/she sees it. Is that an option, Harlow? I've enjoyed quite a few books where the author allows each character to tell what happened from his/her POV. I like first person but third person works well also. Though for your story, I think first person would be a better vehicle for the intensity of the issues. I think it would be fascinating to hear the wife, the ex-, the new husband, the parents, everyone seeing (or choosing to see) things a certain way, painfully honest or stubbornly self-deceptive, trying to earn the readers' sympathy and convince them to see their side of the story. I love the idea of seeing the same event through different eyes; people have completely different takes on the same event. (I'm always amazed when my sister starts telling stories about things that I remember very differently.) Offhand I can think of a few books that do this in the LDS market, at least in the third person (Ben Parkinson's books follow the lives of four different missionaries and rotates among them) and a few national ones come to mind (like Goldsmith's *The Bestseller* or Gaffney's *Saving Graces.* Sometimes the POV change is pretty systematic, sort of a *rotating chronological* and sometimes it's a bit more loose, switching between scenes or chapters but not as evenly balanced. I think Dean Hughes and Gerald Lund do this kind of thing so we can follow the different lives of all their characters. I belonged to a writers' group for several years and we tried an assignment that taught me a lot. Someone devised a sentence that would be our starting place for a two-page story and we all reported back with it at our next meeting. The sentence was *Mrs. Tracy kissed me,* and it was amazing to see the different directions the story took. The only female at the time, I was a bit annoyed with it since I felt limited as the "me." Then I thought, *This is fiction. The me 'isn't' really me." So I wrote it from a male point of view. Then tried a female point of view - as a child, as a teenager, as a lover. Everyone had a different story and voice. I was drawn to the child's perspective and then found myself in the middle of a personal essay, describing an event from my childhood, with *Mrs. Tracy* as my old baby-sitter. I know there's a school of thought that says a book or story can only have one POV, and while I agree that too many POVs can clutter a scene and dilute the emotion and reader-character connection, if done well, the characters can reveal themselves through what they say (and don't say) and how they say it. (Fans of *Flowers for Algernon* may call it blasphemy - - or stupidity - but imagine getting into Charley's story, then stepping into the mind of the teacher(?) who is falling in love with him, then that of a co-worker who consistently belittles him, then is intimidated by his growing intelligence, then feels guilty afterward; and maybe, too, the mind of an *objective* (read *unfeeling*) lead analyst who sees Charley only in a series of charts and graphs. Granted, a single viewpoint does it very well; this is just a different way of telling a story and getting into people's heads.) Any possibilities, Harlow? Any thoughts, outcries, hear-hears from the other readers/writers/critics? Valerie Holladay __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 16:26:32 -0700 From: eedh Subject: [AML] Re: Divorce Todd Robert Petersen wrote: "Why is it that so many assume that our literature wouldn't explore those avenues of human experience, not to applaud them, but to warn or to uncover? The scriptures and conference talks can't really explore these very important aspects of Mormon lives, but literature can. In fact, Mormon literature is obligated to, in many ways. I think that it is dangerous to suggest, with our literature, that everything's going to be okay." I think this could be very helpful to teach young people about courtship and engagement. I knew a girl who had some concerns about her fiancee. The night before she was to take out her endowments she became more concerned. She called a friend and confided these concerns, and the friend assured her that Satan was just trying to stop her from doing what was right. She went ahead with the endowment and then the marriage. Things were very difficult for her. I agree that literature is in a unique position to point out the red flags and problems in life and show that sometimes the pat, easy answers don't work. Beth Hatch - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 17:03:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: [AML] Prouxl and Turrow I've been reading back issues of Irreantum and I saw Scott Turrow and Annie Prouxl mentioned in the "news" section. Could anyone tell me what connection these authors have to Mormon letters? Are they LDS? (And is this Annie Prouxl of "Shipping News"?) ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:29:58 -0400 From: Shawn Ambrose Subject: RE: [AML] Sexuality in LDS Lit Pornographers do not own all the discourse on sexuality. There is no sexual silence in the church or anywhere else. Something about sexuality is always being taught, by example if not out loud. Now, there is an unfortunate measure of ignorance and of false teaching. Just because we do not discuss it in public forums does not mean it's not being taught. We teach every time we turn on or off the TV. We teach every time we kiss our spouses or yell at them instead. We teach when we think we're not teaching. When I was a little, little girl, I remember walking out of my bedroom at night to where I could see into my parents' bedroom. They heard me and told me, with some embarrassment in their tone, to go back to bed. I remember thinking they were in an awkward position to sleep, even with blankets on. It was not until later that I made the connection. By then, because in public they showed respect, love, and service to each other, I understood that they also loved each other in bed. Timid about sex, no, we're not. Timid about shouting it abroad, yes. Do you really need to know all the gory details? (insert your own gory, messy details here) No! If you think just about the mechanics of sex, it's kind of gross, I mean, all those bodily fluids all over. In order to appreciate it fully you need the right attitude and the right conditions. When I was pregnant with our fourth child, I went to a pro-life clinic to get a free pregnancy test. While I waited for the results, they asked me to look over the materials they had gathered for pregnant mothers to view. I was happily married with no intention to abort; I could not find anything to watch or to read that applied to me. It was all anti-abortion, but not pro-anything else. There were no pointers on how to care for an infant. There were no referral materials to adoption agencies. There were not even any videos giving good nutrition hints; they were all Don't do this, Don't do that, Don't abort, Don't abandon your baby. There was nothing positive. I pointed this out to the clinic personnel. She seemed surprised to realize that they had presented no viable alternatives in a way that made them easy to get to. It occurs to me that this happens in our homes and churches. The church leaders are trying to address this, in part by holding a joint Relief Society and Priesthood meeting once a year on Sunday morning. They explain the church's stand on unmarried pregnant women and their children. They explain the job of LDS Social Services. They try to address the parents so that parents will teach correct attitudes. Does it always get through? Of course not. Specific examples of behavior do not belong in Sunday meetings. If you have a question, go to your bishop in private. There are severe limits to what can be said over the pulpit because it does not apply to all ages. We are mortal. Alas! 'Tis our lot to be imperfect in this life! Melinda L. Ambrose - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:58:49 -0400 From: Shawn Ambrose Subject: [AML] _Galaxy Quest_ and Sexuality in LDS literature When I first mentioned _Galaxy Quest_ on the List, I said, "I don't recommend it particularly, but the premise fascinates me." Now. I enjoyed the movie. It was hilariously funny. I even paid two dollars and fifty cents per day for a week straight to rent it. We watched it at least once a day, except Sunday, and on about four days I watched it twice. Then we returned it. We might rent it one more time so my husband can see it, but that'll be it. No more. But, you say, at that rental price you could have bought the tape. Yes, I could have. I chose not to, LDS screenwriter or no LDS screenwriter. I am comforted, in fact, to know that David Howard didn't write all that. I didn't buy it because a) there were too many crude words, and b) the heroine's costume was too revealing, especially near the end. As an adult I can mentally say, "that's funny but not what I'd do". My children, however, are still learning what appropriate and what's not. Their mental filters are rudimentary at best. (My oldest child is 8.) We've taught our children that there are some words we don't say, some styles we don't wear, some things we don't do. Another example: Disney's cartoon, _Hercules_. It was very popular with several families in our ward. One of the Relief Society presidency brought it to Homemaking for the kids in the nursery to watch. I brought my children in while it was playing. Now, I had borrowed the video from the library and watched it myself first, which I do with every children's movie whose advertisements make me nervous. I asked the Relief Society counselor to turn it off because my children are not allowed to see it. She was shocked and embarrassed. She turned it off and apologized, saying she had no idea that it was at all objectionable. Her small children watched it. Another mother was present. She asked me why. I told her it was because the characters in _Hercules_ are rude to each other. She laughed at me. She said something to the effect of "With all the big problems in the world, you're worried about rudeness?" Yes, I am worried about rudeness. Disrespect is a capital offense in my household. Thou shalt not sass thy parents. Thou shalt not ridicule thy siblings. If my son acted like the characters in _Hercules_, my son would sit on a chair a long time. That's ignoring the images portrayed of gods and goddesses-another major objection, which I did not explain. My question: how do you write for such diverse tastes? And, how do you expect to make money unless you can find a way to tie these diverse tastes together? And while we're at it, I can proudly say that our three-year-old can watch any of our videos safely without supervision, excepting only _Schindler's List_. I admit that this includes all four Star Wars movies. Is it hypocritical? Maybe. A little. Am I perfect? No. The fact is, I find the pervasive wrong stereotypes of sexual relations far more disturbing than the violence in which Good battles Evil and Good usually wins. You never see Leia hop in bed with Han or Luke. (You never see them sleep, period, but that's beside the point.) Some of you seem to advocate total honesty and completeness in depicting sexual relations. Okay, why isn't Christ's sex life detailed in scripture? He was mortal, therefore a sexual being. What gives? Melinda L. Ambrose - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 05:11:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: [AML] Where's our LDS Pulitzer prize winner? Thom Duncan said something like this (I lost the original message): (in relation to OSC and Dave Wolverton) >when they've recieved a pulitzer, then we can talk I don't really put much stock in the Pulitzer prize, as I have often seen political motivations as the reason for the reward than any literary value inherent in the work But since OSC won both the Hugo and the Nebula (Speculative Fictions' Highest honors) two years in a row for a book (Ender's game) and a sequel (Speaker for the Dead) - that's about as close as any SF writer can get to a Pulitzer. - --Ivan Wolfe - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 06:58:39 -0600 From: "Jerry Enos" Subject: Re: [AML] Re: Where's our LDS Amy Tan? Lynn, you can't be the only unlettered person on this list. All I have is an Assosiates degree majoring in Pre Occupational Therapy. I'm getting quite an education trying to keep up with everything that's being said on this list. Half the time I'm completely lost. Konnie Enos [MOD: That's okay. Some of us are completely lost even when we're the ones talking!] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:28:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: Re: Fw: [AML] Divorce in LDS lit. Richard Hopkins asks if we would rather read about a divorcee or a widower. I wouldn't mind the divorcee at all, as long as I could be absolutely convinced that the divorce was deeply disturbing to him. I would like to see him still struggling with self-acceptance and maybe self-doubt about his decision. I would like to see some very good reasons for the divorce. Accurate or not, there is a belief that many divorces are caused by men who are just not able to keep a commitment over a lifetime. If I could be reassured that this guy isn't a "bailer" (one who bails), I would be free to hope for romantic success in his life. ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:37:46 -0500 From: reid9 Subject: Re: [AML] Jobs for writers Christopher Bigelow wrote: > An interesting question is, Should a would-be fiction writer work as a corporate propagandist (note middle of that word) or technical writer? I work as a tech writer, ad writer, newspaper stringer - or whatever in order to pay the bills. Knowing the bills are paid really helps my creative process. :) My sister, Maureen Tan,(no relation to Amy) wrote both of her novels while working as the editor of an engineering magazine. I think having to work the other jobs helps you to organize yourself and set priorities. (Just like when I had a part-time job during college I had better grades than when I didn't have to work.) > My only regret is that if I had really leveraged all my available time during at various "full-time" jobs over the past 10 years, I could have written at least a novel a year. Okay - no offense meant :):):)- but one of the most frustrating things about being a writer is when people say, "Oh, yah, I'm a writer too - I have this great idea for a novel." I'm not saying that you don't have the ability to write a great novel, as a matter of fact, I'm betting that you do. But what seperates the men from the boys, the chickens form the roosters and the boysenberries from the thorns - is writing. Every day - writing - sometimes really good stuff - sometimes, awful stuff - but that discipline of writing. > Oh, well, maybe I'll start typing on my novel again tomorrow. But today I need to read the Onion and check inside.com, and edit the next issue of Irreantum one more time before it goes to design, and keep up with my e-mails, and do a little proofing for the corporation, and meet my wife for lunch, and stop at the post office, and surreptitiously read Entertainment Weekly during an afternoon corporate meeting, and maybe meet with that one guy about that one writing project I'm supposed to start . . . Been there, done that - so, somedays I have to actually delete e-mails without reading them (hate to break it to y'all) because I have to choose what I have time to do that day or that week. I used to belong to a screenwriters list that was so prolific that I would get about 150 e-mails every day. I never had time to write - and know what, neither did the really prolific writers. All they wanted to do was talk about screenwriting. The Internet's a wonderful tool - but it can also be a deadly time waster. > Of course, if there's an economic downtown and lay offs happen, I'd probably be one of the first to go, with my attitude. Oh, please don't throw me into the briar patch. One of the best things that happened to me was having the company I work for sold to Nationsbank. I was working fom home - about 2 hours from the office and Nationsband decided that they really didn't need me. AHHHHHHHHHH!!!! What could I do? Where could I go? Well, I started writing - because I had to - and it has been wonderful (not always easy) but wonderful ever since. Terri Reid - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 07:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: Re: [AML] Where's our LDS Mark Twain? D. Michael Martindale wrote: *** I think there's an important difference here. It's one thing to attack cultural defects and hypocricies, something I would have no problem with and I think an insider member of the church could do--albeit one who would have to have the courage to face knee-jerk criticism from less insightful members. But when one starts criticizing the theology itself, which often seems to get lumped into the mix with the "inder-outsider" writer trying very hard to be objective, then the line is crossed and the writer has placed him/herself squarely on the other side. *** That's just the trick, isn't it? The fact is that it isn't always clear just what is theology and what is culture. Ten people will give you ten different opinions on whether "women should stay home to raise their children" is theology/commandment or cultural. This very ambiguity is why I enjoy reading Levi Peterson so much. I don't always agree with him, but I like being forced to evaluate where I draw the line between theology and culture. But I have a hard time recommending Peterson to most of my friends because I think they would not enjoy the discomfort of this evaluation process. (As was mentioned before, many of us choose safety.) In life and in my reading, I like asking myself, "Is there room for this person/attitude in the church? Should there be? What is the purpose of the church after all? What is it we all have in common when we show up for meetings, call ourselves Mormon?" I believe the Great Mormon Novel will force us to ask these questions. Great literature asks what it means to be human. Great Mormon lit. will ask what it means to be Mormon. I believe, however, that it can be done with faith and hope. Cynicism and apostasy are not necessary to a great novel. Some discomfort might be, though. ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #57 *****************************